Latest / Random Heathen Ramblings / Random Heathen Ramblings: S4, EP 34 - Why Are We Pagans? (feat. Patrick Walsh)

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Random Heathen Ramblings: S4, EP 34 - Why Are We Pagans? (feat. Patrick Walsh) · Random Heathen Ramblings

• 0:01
  Hello everyone and welcome to the Random Heathen Ramblings
• 0:04
  podcast where we discussed all sorts of things.
• 0:06
  Dramatic Heathen rerelated. My name is Jesse and I'm your
• 0:10
  host. Let's get into it.
• 0:34
  All right, everybody. Hail.
• 0:37
  Yes, yes, yes. Hail.
• 0:38
  Hello, indeed. Special guest coming on the show
• 0:43
  here this week. My good friend Patrick Walsh.
• 0:45
  You know him? You recognize him.
• 0:47
  You love him from the High Lung Mental Health Spiritual support
• 0:51
  group on Facebook. He's going to be joining me
• 0:54
  today. And we're going to be talking
• 0:56
  about why we are pagans. You know why he and I are
• 1:00
  pagans, but it's going to kind of open up, I feel, a much
• 1:04
  broader question to the community.
• 1:07
  Why are you Pagan? You know, why do you do the
• 1:10
  things that you do, whether you're Germanic heathen or
• 1:12
  whether you're other, other, another sort of variety of of of
• 1:18
  a polytheist? All right, it doesn't much
• 1:20
  matter. Just kind of curious, you know,
• 1:22
  what? What made us choose this path or
• 1:25
  what? What what, what gave us the
• 1:29
  inclination to pursue this path? You know, some people might say
• 1:32
  that we didn't choose it, it just kind of came to us or
• 1:35
  whatever. So we're going to talk about
• 1:37
  that stuff today and get get down into the the nitty gritty
• 1:40
  details. Before we do just want to remind
• 1:44
  you to please as always check the description area you're
• 1:48
  showing us for the link tree link of this podcast so you know
• 1:51
  how you can support what I do here each and every week and and
• 1:58
  beyond. You know all the long form
• 2:00
  content, the short form content, just everything that I do.
• 2:04
  Check the link tree link out because it shows you all the
• 2:06
  ways that you can support merchandise, Amazon wish list,
• 2:11
  Patreon of course like follow and subscribe to all of my
• 2:15
  socials. That's the best way you know
• 2:18
  helps the the algorithm realize, Oh yeah, we need to get this out
• 2:22
  to more to more like minded people.
• 2:25
  Additionally from that you know we are fastly approaching the
• 2:28
  Shadow Moot event hosted by Raven Moon Hearth in
• 2:32
  Springfield, TN. The address is on your screen
• 2:34
  along with some more information that you'll find helpful.
• 2:37
  If you want to come for the weekend of October 13th through
• 2:41
  15th, it is $45.00 for the weekend pass.
• 2:44
  And what that includes for you is you get fed 3 meals a day,
• 2:49
  you get access to all of the rituals, workshop, storytelling,
• 2:54
  vendor booths you know and and the games of course that are
• 3:00
  going to be going on there. It's a really great inclusive,
• 3:02
  family friendly event. It is a primitive camping style
• 3:07
  event. So if you do plan on camping, be
• 3:09
  sure to bring all of the things that you would need to camp
• 3:11
  primitively. So you'll need to bring your own
• 3:14
  tent, sleeping bags, appropriate clothing.
• 3:17
  Remember it is going to be middle of October, so the days
• 3:20
  can be warm and the nights can be chilly.
• 3:22
  The dress and plan accordingly for that.
• 3:25
  Also bring dry changes of clothes because you know the
• 3:28
  weather is what it could be and you never know, it might be
• 3:31
  raining and storming. So barring any severe weather,
• 3:36
  you know, I know in the past shadow moon has been a rain or
• 3:39
  shine event. They just kind of work around
• 3:41
  the challenges of the weather if there are any.
• 3:44
  But if you do just want to come for one day, you can do so for
• 3:47
  $20.00. Of course, children under the
• 3:49
  age of 12 do come in for free. There are no presale tickets.
• 3:52
  You pay at the gate when you arrive.
• 3:55
  And if you are thinking of only coming for one day out of those
• 3:58
  three days, I strongly encourage you to come on the 14th, which
• 4:00
  is Saturday, because that's when all of the fun things that they
• 4:03
  have planned for Shadow Moot take place.
• 4:06
  The vendors are there, usually in full force on Saturday, of
• 4:11
  course. The games, the ritual, the the,
• 4:14
  the drumming circle, everything. All the community based stuff,
• 4:17
  classes, workshops, whatever, all that stuff is happening on
• 4:20
  that Saturday. So if you have any questions,
• 4:23
  there's going to be a link in the description shown up for the
• 4:26
  Facebook event. You can go in there and ask
• 4:30
  anybody questions that you might have.
• 4:33
  Greg is their Chieftain and he's kind of their go to person when
• 4:35
  it comes to questions for the event.
• 4:38
  So feel free to reach out to him directly if you need or want to.
• 4:43
  And if you're watching this or listening to this on the podcast
• 4:45
  and you have any questions you want to just direct to me, I
• 4:48
  will surely do my best to get an answer for you.
• 4:51
  But yeah, there you go Shadow moots coming up here in just
• 4:55
  less than a month's time. My wife and I will be there and
• 5:00
  we are greatly looking forward to it.
• 5:02
  One last thing I do want to mention before we get Patrick on
• 5:05
  here today is if you guys haven't heard of a there's a lot
• 5:09
  of like Nordic folk music projects, musicians out here in
• 5:13
  the in the landscape of Heathenry and Paganism.
• 5:17
  And there's a lot of really good and talented artists, people
• 5:20
  that spend a lot of time, money, efforts into their craft.
• 5:26
  And one of the ones who I have fairly recently come into
• 5:30
  awareness of is if I'm mispronouncing the name, I'm I'm
• 5:34
  sorry but he's a French musician and he isn't called on Facebook,
• 5:39
  at least I think it's pronounced Ayolia EOLYA, really awesome
• 5:46
  singer, musician, instrumentalist, you know he's
• 5:49
  he's got the the liar, he's got the the talak harp, he's got the
• 5:54
  the voice very, very powerful operatic almost voice
• 6:00
  information for him is going to be linked down in the
• 6:04
  description show notes as well. But the reason why I wanted to
• 6:05
  talk about him today is he's recently shared on his social
• 6:09
  media that he is got a a crowdfunding up on a site called
• 6:14
  I think it's Ulu ULULE so or ULU they.
• 6:19
  I don't know if it's French specifically, a French
• 6:23
  crowdfunding platform, but there's going to be a link down
• 6:26
  in the description and stuff for that as well as his link tree
• 6:30
  for you to find all of his music.
• 6:32
  He's really passionate about delivering the best quality of
• 6:38
  everything, you know visual audio and he's a very talented
• 6:42
  producer like the the things that he does in his in his home
• 6:45
  or in his his studio rather. I don't know if it's a home
• 6:48
  studio but it whatever he does he has a really good knack for
• 6:52
  it. And I was recently given the
• 6:54
  chance to help promote the crowdfunding that you see here
• 6:58
  on your screen and then down in the description or show notes.
• 7:01
  So please be sure if you want to support an independent talented
• 7:05
  artist such as him that you check his crowdfunding out and
• 7:10
  you know, contribute to that in any sort of way.
• 7:13
  I believe the album is supposed to be releasing next month in
• 7:17
  October, so if you want to help him reach that goal, the album
• 7:23
  that is is being released is phenomenal.
• 7:29
  I just want to say I've I've gotten a chance to listen to
• 7:31
  some of the songs that are on it and I actually have a an early
• 7:36
  taste of the music, right? And I've been jamming it since I
• 7:41
  got it. So thank you to Aoria again,
• 7:44
  hopefully I'm pronouncing that correctly for the music ahead of
• 7:47
  time. And thank you for doing what you
• 7:49
  do for the Pagan community for people to enjoy.
• 7:51
  Even if you're not Heathen or Pagan, it's really great music.
• 7:54
  You can tell he puts a lot of effort into it.
• 7:56
  So please check out his crowdfunding platform in the
• 8:01
  description, show notes, and follow him by going to his link
• 8:04
  tree link that's annotated down and below or over here or
• 8:07
  wherever you find it. All right, so now that we've got
• 8:09
  all the housekeeping stuff out of the way, let's get Patrick on
• 8:12
  here and talk about why we are Pagans.
• 8:16
  Here we go. All right, folks, we are here
• 8:21
  today with Patrick Walsh again. What's up, man?
• 8:25
  Hey, how's it going? It's going good.
• 8:28
  It's going pretty good. I guess it just had some
• 8:30
  mechanical issues with the refrigerator that I was dealing
• 8:33
  with earlier. I was telling you about offline,
• 8:35
  but troubleshooting saved the day.
• 8:38
  So we're we're back rocking and rolling with that.
• 8:41
  How was your week? It's been pretty good, you know,
• 8:44
  just dealing work in the dealer shenanigans.
• 8:46
  Malarkey. Yeah, man, they never seemed to,
• 8:50
  never seemed to go away, do they?
• 8:52
  No, it's just wrong with the punches, you know?
• 8:55
  Yeah, One flavor of this versus the one flavor of that.
• 8:59
  And next thing you know, it's on to this whole casserole of
• 9:03
  shenanigans, you know? Yeah, yeah.
• 9:07
  That's good though, man. It's good to see you here again.
• 9:08
  Thanks for coming back on the podcast.
• 9:11
  Oh, it's. An honor and a pleasure.
• 9:13
  Oh yeah. And for everybody that doesn't
• 9:15
  know Patrick, you know, if you're new to the channel or
• 9:16
  you're new to the podcast, Patrick here has a Facebook
• 9:20
  group that is a big dedication and homage to Highland, the
• 9:29
  Nordic Folk, Nordic Ambience. I don't know what kind of
• 9:33
  categorized category you would put them in, but they're all
• 9:35
  kinds of awesome. Yep, Mom and and Highland.
• 9:39
  The the the Highland mental Spiritual Support group is
• 9:43
  Patrick's group here. So if you love Highland and you
• 9:46
  are looking for a safe space to come with, you know folks who
• 9:52
  battle and and and deal with and live with all kinds of things,
• 9:57
  you know mental and spiritual struggles.
• 9:59
  This is a safe space for you to come.
• 10:02
  So please, there'll be a link in the comments or the description
• 10:05
  area, show notes for you guys to check out.
• 10:08
  And please be sure to answer those questions that are asked
• 10:11
  when you join and come hang out with Patrick and everybody
• 10:14
  that's there. It's a lot of cool stuff that
• 10:16
  gets shared from all kinds of people, so.
• 10:18
  Yep, some great people as well that are part of the group as
• 10:20
  well. Yeah, man.
• 10:22
  There's also are there members of filing in the.
• 10:27
  Groups. Yes, Sir.
• 10:28
  I give me one second my phone. We're gonna plug into the
• 10:31
  fucking wallet here, yeah? Yeah, I plug it into the wall.
• 10:36
  My phone there, so I got concerned.
• 10:38
  But yes, as a matter of fact, there are two to three members
• 10:45
  that are part of the group. Two I know for sure, both named
• 10:49
  Alex. There's Alex Oposo and Alex
• 10:52
  Kappa both. Amazing man.
• 10:54
  I love and appreciate so very much.
• 10:59
  That's cool, man. You know when whenever you do
• 11:01
  stuff or whenever we do stuff and we have like a focus,
• 11:06
  whether it's like a music support group or mental health
• 11:10
  program, when you have people that are a part of that
• 11:14
  community, like the band or whatever in your group.
• 11:17
  It really like, I don't know like validates the.
• 11:20
  It does it away. It does validate it too.
• 11:23
  Just, you know, not just making this Willy nilly, You're having
• 11:26
  a sense of purpose. And really, you know, inspired
• 11:29
  greatly from very. Awesome events that have
• 11:32
  occurred in my life. Yeah man, I'm proud of you for
• 11:37
  what you've done with this group in this community, so.
• 11:41
  I appreciate that. But yeah, you actually are the
• 11:46
  reason we're talking about what we're talking about today.
• 11:49
  You hit me up. And we're looking to talk about
• 11:56
  what? Why?
• 11:57
  We are, who we are, why we do what we do, right?
• 12:00
  Why? Why are we Pagan, right?
• 12:03
  What sparked that question with you?
• 12:06
  With me? Yeah.
• 12:08
  So that's quite the tale, Sue. I'm gonna take my time here.
• 12:13
  So a little bit about me, anyone who hasn't known before is I was
• 12:18
  raised as a Roman Catholic. Now contrary to many other
• 12:23
  people in this state and path will say.
• 12:26
  I'm probably the opposite of what you usually hear me though.
• 12:31
  I had a very close network of friends and family and support
• 12:34
  group that really got me through some very messed up times
• 12:37
  throughout my early stages. But development and that's, you
• 12:41
  know, being a baby all the way from being a kid and then before
• 12:48
  I was a teenager and then from that point on we moved places.
• 12:52
  But. During that parade though, you
• 12:55
  know, I had nothing but support and you know, fellowship that
• 12:58
  really helped me and guided me through a lot of stages
• 13:01
  throughout my life. And then it came a point when I
• 13:04
  was in middle school that I just felt like it wasn't my path.
• 13:09
  So I started venturing and exploring the various different,
• 13:14
  you know, pantheons, religions and you know, belief systems
• 13:19
  and. During that that stage of
• 13:23
  development, I went through quite a few pantheons and
• 13:27
  whatnot. So which are Buddhism with and
• 13:34
  forgave me for saying this. But again I was through they're
• 13:37
  very, you know, unique stage of my life where I bounced back and
• 13:42
  forth. I was really exploring exactly.
• 13:45
  So, fun fact, anyone who's watching Jesse and our both.
• 13:51
  You know, Freemasons at one point in our lives.
• 13:56
  And that's something that has a heavy Catholic, Christian kind
• 14:01
  of like basis to it, I guess. But you know, further study into
• 14:07
  that order. I'm of mine to say that it has
• 14:11
  Pagan ancestries to it. But yeah, the allegory like the
• 14:16
  the the rituals and stuff are built around like Christians of
• 14:21
  like there's thing they're the Christian undertones are Judaic
• 14:25
  undertones to the lodge and and the body of the lodge and how
• 14:30
  it's kind of constructed. Exactly.
• 14:32
  But also, it definitely doesn't have, like, you don't have to be
• 14:35
  Christian to be a Mason. You don't have to.
• 14:37
  You know what I mean? Like, that's not a prerequisite.
• 14:39
  It's not. Leave in a higher power.
• 14:41
  That's all that really matters, right?
• 14:43
  That's the position I am at various stages my life as well,
• 14:47
  you know, it's just. At no point in time that ever
• 14:50
  not believe in a higher force, because it may just be my my
• 14:56
  situation being born the way I am.
• 14:57
  But I was in a position I'm very grateful for.
• 15:00
  To always see the sacred and all the paths and you know, things
• 15:06
  that I undertook and took time to study and appreciate.
• 15:10
  So anyways, from that though, I moved on to, you know, various
• 15:14
  paths like I said, you know, very away from, you know.
• 15:18
  The church a letter they saying since the Mormonism group.
• 15:21
  That's very brief though I want to iterate that very heavily.
• 15:25
  But then around with the Mormons, did you?
• 15:27
  Yes, very briefly. It started off.
• 15:30
  This funny interaction is one night I was drinking and they or
• 15:34
  sorry, one evening I was drinking.
• 15:35
  They stopped by and then there's the whole dog and pony show.
• 15:40
  I'm like when I was listening to them though.
• 15:42
  I'm like, man, these guys have a lot of, a lot of cojones going
• 15:47
  out. And preaching the way they do.
• 15:50
  But again, that's, you know, a topic for another day, I guess.
• 15:53
  But I'm not trying to straight too deep into that.
• 15:55
  But I have a measure of a reference and respect of what
• 15:59
  they're doing. So it turned into, you know,
• 16:02
  casual, you know, hey, I respect what you're doing until like,
• 16:05
  OK, what else do you have to offer?
• 16:07
  But then quickly after getting into that, like, now this is not
• 16:13
  for me. Goodbye.
• 16:14
  We're gone, you know, But you know.
• 16:17
  I'm not trying to leave any nasty nails turning from that on
• 16:20
  that path, but, you know, to each throat again.
• 16:22
  But yeah, back retracing to my early steps and early stages and
• 16:28
  my development, I actually stumbled across Paganism.
• 16:33
  And it's one of those times, you know, just like how long.
• 16:35
  When I first, like heard of them, I was captain and I
• 16:41
  entertained the idea, but it wasn't until later.
• 16:45
  That grew in appreciation of respect and understanding and
• 16:48
  full development into what that practice was.
• 16:50
  Now that's mainly towards Pagan. Isn't that any other faith or
• 16:53
  practice that I did besides, you know, the Hindu faith that still
• 16:58
  has some some energies within me, you know?
• 17:04
  Well, I think there's a, I just want to touch on that for just a
• 17:06
  brief second. Not to take you do not to derail
• 17:08
  you too much, but in terms of what Hinduism it's, it's an
• 17:11
  Indoeuropean religion and Germanic paganism specifically
• 17:17
  has roots in proto indo European cultures, so.
• 17:21
  Yeah, the policy is is a link there, yeah.
• 17:25
  Exactly. And that's something I I really
• 17:26
  come to appreciate too. And something I find a great
• 17:29
  comfort in is, you know, it's one thing praising and honoring
• 17:35
  A deity that's all-encompassing, but I think life isn't that
• 17:40
  simple. There are multiple.
• 17:42
  Elements, multiple things that are going on that you know.
• 17:48
  I can agree with the aspect that it's all collective and one, but
• 17:53
  it's also very crucial and fundamental in keeping it
• 17:55
  separate and keeping categorized for the sake of development and
• 17:59
  appreciation and what we're trying to follow and appreciate
• 18:03
  and understand. I think you've got a point
• 18:08
  there, right? The key on to keep things in
• 18:10
  their respective lanes. It's fine to learn and it's fine
• 18:15
  to explore and it's and it's fine to gain that knowledge
• 18:19
  right. And I for 1:00 AM of the
• 18:24
  opinion, again, this is just my opinion, that once you land on
• 18:28
  something that feels right for you, then it's time to then
• 18:34
  invest your focus into that thing.
• 18:37
  And whatever other influences that have kind of you've picked
• 18:42
  up along the way kind of get fleshed and weeded out a bit,
• 18:46
  You know what I mean? Like, sure, there might be parts
• 18:49
  of your life that you lived and the things that you did while
• 18:54
  you were Catholic that you do now still as Pagan, but the
• 18:59
  religiosity is, is much more focused on the Pagan side versus
• 19:03
  the Catholic side. You know, that's kind of what
• 19:05
  I'm trying to say. Yeah, exactly.
• 19:08
  And if anything, if anything, if you, you know, like me.
• 19:12
  If you send a path need, this sign was not for you.
• 19:16
  You have something in your corner, You have something to
• 19:19
  your advantage. I believe you have an
• 19:21
  understanding and appreciation. That's something that's not very
• 19:25
  common nowadays. Me might be, but just you don't.
• 19:29
  Knowing that I have a knowledge of my my upbringing, I have a
• 19:33
  level of understanding and appreciation.
• 19:36
  But that wasn't always the case, though.
• 19:39
  Because going back to my early stages, my development, I once
• 19:42
  became a Satanist, which is the completely 180 of Christian and,
• 19:47
  you know, Catholic and whatnot. And you know what?
• 19:50
  That's more my rebellious days when I was a teenager.
• 19:53
  That's like the true example of just being a black sheep and
• 19:58
  just saying after you, I'm just not going to follow what you're
• 20:02
  trying to preach. There's more to this world than
• 20:04
  I see. But then as I got older.
• 20:07
  I start to really, you know, study and take the time to
• 20:11
  understand you. I've begun to gain understanding
• 20:15
  of various cultures and even to this day I'm still, you know,
• 20:20
  consider myself a N Pagan. But also I refer to something
• 20:25
  called Great Spirit and call what you will.
• 20:27
  But I thought the great spirit is you know that that glue if
• 20:31
  you're that person that you know appreciates various cultures and
• 20:35
  has helped you throughout your life.
• 20:37
  You know it's always nice to have a point of reference into
• 20:41
  you know tiles. Unfortunately it's very
• 20:43
  necessary in the society that we live in.
• 20:46
  So it's nice to have that that level and that that I guess
• 20:51
  standpoint for people can either relate understand or just take
• 20:56
  the time that you know what that's not for me.
• 20:58
  So by have a good life, you know, but you know it's it's
• 21:01
  helpful to know and who you're engaging with and what you're
• 21:05
  going to talk about and whatnot. Yeah.
• 21:09
  Why do you think that it was Paganism specifically that
• 21:17
  resonated with you the most? Out of all of the things that
• 21:22
  you dabbled in and explored, you could have landed on any one of
• 21:26
  those. I really appreciate that
• 21:29
  question too, cuz that really brought me to where I need to go
• 21:31
  to is what really moved me the most was the sense of humidity,
• 21:37
  warp and understanding from where I was coming from.
• 21:40
  And knowing I had a little knowledge of the backward helped
• 21:43
  a lot too. But just, you know, coming as
• 21:45
  who I am, sharing my passions and my plight of, you know,
• 21:49
  being it is what it is. You know, having that level of,
• 21:53
  you know, camaraderie and fellowship, it changed my life
• 21:57
  from so many levels. And that was right around the
• 21:59
  time that I actually got into high lung and that kind of
• 22:03
  coincide it with my development and my spiritual practices.
• 22:07
  That I'm not trying to say that you should listen to music and
• 22:11
  make that your spiritual course of action.
• 22:13
  I'm not condoning that by any means.
• 22:15
  But for me, that was one of the reasons why I really dived hard
• 22:21
  into that faith and into this practice that I do today.
• 22:25
  So it's just, you know, like I said, you know, when I started
• 22:29
  this path, it's been nothing short of a blessing and has
• 22:33
  helped me tremendously, you know, from the from the
• 22:38
  beginning into this very moment. So music was a big one for you,
• 22:42
  right? The and the specific, the
• 22:45
  specific style of music that bands like High Lung and maybe
• 22:50
  others and the Fellowship and the Fellowship and support that
• 22:54
  came with that and really Yeah, and yourself.
• 22:57
  And then you see the influences and really learn.
• 23:00
  Like for me, like I said, I engaged into the Pagan Path and
• 23:05
  N Pagan Path for a little bit and I had some very special
• 23:09
  moments throughout that time and period in my life.
• 23:12
  I wish I could remember what specific year it was, but that
• 23:15
  year was those years were great. You know, in the every part of
• 23:19
  my life and development that I had really great moments in
• 23:22
  alignment, you know, all come from various stages in the
• 23:25
  leaves and that's something you know, you know.
• 23:28
  Anyways, more to the point though, that's the answer to the
• 23:31
  question though. OK.
• 23:33
  So you kind of were again in that exploratory path.
• 23:36
  You were like, all right, well I did this, this, this and this
• 23:39
  and now here's Paganism. So let me let me look more into
• 23:42
  that. And then during that exploration
• 23:47
  is when you were introduced to high lung and that's the thing
• 23:51
  that kind of really you in the direction right like that really
• 23:55
  kind of set the path for you is like this is where I want to be.
• 23:59
  And this is what I wanna put my focus into, right?
• 24:02
  Exactly. Gotcha.
• 24:04
  I wonder if that's a lot for a lot of people too, right?
• 24:08
  Cuz I noticed there's a I think there's an underlying sense of
• 24:16
  community across religion too. Christianity specifically, at
• 24:23
  least from cuz I was raised as a.
• 24:27
  Practicing Christian, you know a non denominational Christian.
• 24:30
  But then also I've been to Catholic Mass, I've been to
• 24:35
  Pentecostal services, I've been to Methodist services, I've been
• 24:38
  to Baptist services, I've been to so many different
• 24:42
  denomination of Christianity, you know religious services.
• 24:49
  And in any one of those, I always kind of felt like.
• 24:56
  Their people were there for them.
• 25:00
  If someone was sick, if someone was needing something, they had
• 25:05
  their community to fall back on. So it's kind of interesting to
• 25:11
  me to hear you say that or I don't wanna put word into your
• 25:16
  mouth. Are you?
• 25:17
  Is what you're saying is that did you not feel that sense of
• 25:20
  community until you discovered Paganism?
• 25:23
  I did briefly when I was a kid and when I was, you know, a
• 25:26
  Catholic and Christian and just had that underlying factor.
• 25:31
  And that's the main reason why I felt like those people were the
• 25:34
  way they were when I was growing up in the old grade school, you
• 25:38
  know, mainly grade school, because we had that sense of
• 25:41
  understanding and lit ability. Now, mind you, though, at the
• 25:46
  time I was just a kid. Now that I'm adult, I
• 25:51
  understand. That's why, because we're all
• 25:53
  part of this community, you know, whether you practice every
• 25:55
  day or not, we're part of that community and that fellowship.
• 26:00
  Now, after I'd left that faith, you know, I, like I said I
• 26:04
  dabbled from this to that, this to that.
• 26:06
  And then it wasn't until N Paganism that really felt
• 26:12
  something calling out to me and really making me like, hey, you
• 26:15
  know, you're missing out on this.
• 26:18
  You dabbled here, but you should take a little bit more seriously
• 26:22
  and during today and I couldn't be more fucking grateful.
• 26:27
  Yeah, I think it's a really interesting point too, that the
• 26:31
  community, I think the quality of the community is driven by
• 26:40
  the people in it, not necessarily the cultural or
• 26:45
  religious undertones that goes with it.
• 26:47
  I think it has a big part of it because specifically with more
• 26:51
  saganism. Or any other kind of Germanic
• 26:54
  Cavenry. There's a really big emphasis on
• 27:00
  tribal culture. You know, you look out for your
• 27:03
  own, you rely on your own. You're obligated to your people,
• 27:08
  they are obligated to you, right.
• 27:09
  So there's this underlying and inherent importance placed on
• 27:15
  that really close knit almost family.
• 27:18
  Well, not almost, but it is a family like structure, you know.
• 27:25
  And I think one of the things that people that come into this
• 27:28
  path discover is that there's almost a, it's almost nonchalant
• 27:37
  or casual with how some people recognize this.
• 27:39
  And I say that because of the overuse of the of familial
• 27:44
  titles across. Huge online communities, right?
• 27:48
  I'm specifically touching on like the online Paganism or
• 27:51
  online Heathenry dynamic, right, where people that are looking
• 27:57
  for that sense of community that you found and that I found and
• 28:00
  that other people find think that automatically now once they
• 28:05
  find it that they're just part of this great big Pagan family,
• 28:09
  you know what I mean? It's not simple that either.
• 28:12
  No, I don't think so. I don't think it is.
• 28:14
  And I think that the, the the idea of family is is
• 28:18
  overshadowed with this overarching community, right.
• 28:21
  Community is community. It ain't family.
• 28:24
  You're not you're you're not brothers and sisters to one
• 28:26
  another just because you're you like the same stuff or you have
• 28:30
  an inclination to venerate or worship the same types of things
• 28:33
  or even believe some of the same world views and values and and
• 28:37
  morals and ethics, right. Just because you have those
• 28:40
  similarities, doesn't. Mean that your family, that
• 28:43
  family thing comes on a much smaller scale and at a much more
• 28:49
  intricate level and it really applies you to touch base on
• 28:53
  that too. Because I had an example I want
• 28:55
  to share and pardon me throughout this pod, guess it
• 28:58
  might move around. It's.
• 29:00
  Yeah. Do you think we already know
• 29:01
  you, man? Yeah, you're good.
• 29:03
  Anyway, so touching on that topic now before I continue
• 29:07
  though, I'm not talking down on our community and our path.
• 29:12
  It's just unnecessary heads up to anyone who's in this path and
• 29:16
  me and you, we know where we're coming from, but that's sad.
• 29:20
  Here we go. So last year I went to a or,
• 29:23
  sorry. This year I went to a Viking
• 29:24
  festival. And naturally when I came to
• 29:30
  this festival I was assuming like, OK, I'm going to walk, I'm
• 29:35
  going to meet some really cool people this bad.
• 29:38
  They'll be welcome. Like, yeah, here we are.
• 29:41
  But I went there and I felt like, man, it's really cool to
• 29:49
  have a friend, you know, someone who, you know, knew me and was
• 29:54
  able to partake the experience, you know, and enjoy it.
• 29:58
  Yeah, we're going solo. And that kind of reminds me also
• 30:01
  to the the Catholic and Christian faith too is during my
• 30:05
  early stages when I was still practicing that every now and
• 30:09
  again it goes to a random church and just, you know, see what
• 30:12
  they have to offer. And I'd be sitting there and
• 30:15
  like, you get these clams that you like, Who's this guy?
• 30:21
  What are you doing here? Why are you here?
• 30:24
  And you couldn't help but shake that feeling, right?
• 30:26
  And then I'd be like 5 or 10 minutes into that, I'm like, all
• 30:29
  right, bye. I'm gone.
• 30:31
  It's just and you know, that's with every path that we follow,
• 30:35
  I believe is, you know, you're going to need some pagans,
• 30:39
  you're going to need some people that just don't lie with you.
• 30:42
  And that's completely freaking cool and natural.
• 30:46
  And we need every, every spectrum of, you know,
• 30:51
  engagements to really understand and appreciate what we follow
• 30:55
  via, you know, jobs, hobbies, spiritual practices.
• 31:00
  You're going to come across people who share your same
• 31:03
  interests but don't lie with you.
• 31:05
  And that's totally normal. And I feel like that's something
• 31:08
  that kind of gets overshadowed, You know, we think, you know,
• 31:11
  oh, hey, I'm from Missouri. This guy likes the Blues.
• 31:15
  We're friends. Like, no, no, not at all.
• 31:19
  Not at all. See, that's the thing, though I
• 31:22
  get a misconception. So that.
• 31:24
  He's not on that level, yeah, exactly.
• 31:26
  What are your thoughts on that, Jesse?
• 31:28
  Like just that false sense of, you know, community that's not
• 31:32
  really engaged or understood before undertaking that though.
• 31:36
  I've talked about it a lot in different degrees over the years
• 31:42
  that one of the things that I think gets carried into Paganism
• 31:50
  if you enter into a Pagan path, polytheistic path from leaving a
• 31:58
  monotheistic. Specifically like Christian
• 32:02
  upbringing or or model of belief.
• 32:05
  I think that one of the things that's carried the baggage that
• 32:08
  gets carried with you is that you know this this brotherhood
• 32:13
  of man of humanity, right. Brotherhood of humanity under
• 32:18
  this the fatherhood of a deity right.
• 32:23
  And so because because that's a very that's that's what is,
• 32:27
  that's Christian doctrine, right?
• 32:29
  You're you're not, you're not, you're not born into the family.
• 32:32
  You're grafted into the tree because you know we're not you
• 32:35
  know the the the whole like Jews and Gentiles thing that you hear
• 32:38
  about in the Bible and all that. You're not.
• 32:41
  You're not, you're not born of Israel.
• 32:42
  You are Israel when you become grafted into that tree.
• 32:45
  So there is this belief in in Christian world views that you
• 32:49
  know when you repent of your sins and you and then you're
• 32:51
  atone and all this thing and you and you accept Jesus Christ as
• 32:54
  your savior, that you are now brothers and sisters of
• 32:57
  everybody else who's done that. And that could be more further
• 33:00
  from the truth, though I really couldn't.
• 33:03
  Though so there's that right. There's that thing of oh you
• 33:06
  know I'm I'm I'm with my people now I I believe in Odin and Thor
• 33:10
  and and the gods and I the land whites and all this and now all
• 33:13
  of a sudden you're my brothers and sisters.
• 33:15
  No, man, that that ain't it. That that that's not how this
• 33:18
  works. And I'm very I'm very careful
• 33:22
  about, you know what I say with like regards to you know, you're
• 33:25
  wrong. Because I I've also come on here
• 33:29
  and and said nobody can tell you that what the way that you're
• 33:32
  practicing is, is, is the right way or the wrong way.
• 33:35
  If if what you're doing works for you and yours, then that's
• 33:40
  your heart cult. That's your practice.
• 33:42
  That's the thing that you need to focus on doing.
• 33:45
  All I'm saying is that the the thing that doesn't exist in in
• 33:50
  Paganism, dramatic paganism, specifically dramatic Heathenry.
• 33:54
  But the one thing that just simply doesn't exist.
• 33:57
  Is this idea that just because I believe the same thing or
• 34:02
  something close to you, that we are now family to one another,
• 34:05
  that we have this kinship between us?
• 34:07
  That that. You could be a great friend and
• 34:09
  you could be the most awesome person and we could jive, right?
• 34:13
  But we're not. We're not ten in that degree.
• 34:16
  We're not. We're not.
• 34:17
  We don't share kinship ties in that way.
• 34:19
  And then to to your point, right?
• 34:21
  Just because you're cool or like, just because we like
• 34:25
  certain things. I may not drive with you.
• 34:27
  I my personality may grade your gear so bad that you're like, I
• 34:32
  can't stand this motherfucker, You know what I mean?
• 34:35
  But cool for you, for liking what you're doing and being you
• 34:37
  like. But I just can't stand your ass.
• 34:40
  I'm gonna use one name, what person right now?
• 34:43
  And this is gonna be the only time to reference his name.
• 34:46
  I'm gonna give a clue though. I'm gonna give a clue ready.
• 34:50
  I'm ready. He is a prime example of my
• 35:02
  personal opinion, not a fact. So you guys might like this guy.
• 35:06
  I can't stand him for like me, but he's the inside joke between
• 35:10
  me and Jesse. But Tate, Parrish, he's a
• 35:13
  charlatan. He's not a true heathen.
• 35:17
  And that's very Agne because. He's an entertainer.
• 35:22
  He's an entertainer and he and he does what he does in such a
• 35:28
  way that captures the entertainer vibe.
• 35:31
  I mean, he's an entertainer for, if nothing else, and he creates
• 35:37
  content that is entertaining exactly.
• 35:39
  But. That's I don't know the guy.
• 35:41
  I don't know if he thinks or believes any of it, if he does
• 35:45
  and he's like using that to appeal to an audience, I guess.
• 35:53
  Yeah, appeal to an audience. I mean, you almost.
• 35:55
  It's an audience. That's all it is.
• 35:58
  But okay So and playing devil's advocate, right?
• 36:02
  Cuz look, I don't listen to him and I can't.
• 36:04
  I have the same opinion of the guy, right?
• 36:06
  I don't like every time I say I'm like cringe.
• 36:09
  But playing devil's advocate, right?
• 36:12
  Could the same thing be said? Well, maybe not the same thing,
• 36:16
  but could something similar be said?
• 36:19
  Of any of the other like Nordic folk pipe music and and stuff,
• 36:23
  right? Like who the hell knows if Mike
• 36:25
  Schaefer from Don Heim is a practicing heat and who the heck
• 36:29
  knows? You know Einar Selvik of larger,
• 36:32
  you know what his practices are. I think they're more authentic
• 36:35
  in the way they deliver it and I think that they are more in tune
• 36:40
  with what you might categorize or label as like even or Pagan,
• 36:46
  Hylon, especially with their. The way that they deliver it,
• 36:49
  the way that they present themselves, they're the ritual
• 36:52
  aspect of their performances, You know what I mean?
• 36:56
  The ritual theater of their performances, That's totally
• 36:59
  different than this dude with a half buzzed haircut and a beard
• 37:03
  singing to the Valhalla and doing this like super machis
• 37:08
  mode. I can't.
• 37:09
  I can't do. It You know what I mean?
• 37:11
  Like, it's apples, apples and oranges.
• 37:14
  Apples and oranges, right? Yeah, Yeah.
• 37:16
  You're gonna have some people though.
• 37:17
  They'd be like, well, it's the same thing.
• 37:19
  Yeah, I, I, I digress. Right.
• 37:22
  Yeah, you're right. And that's the point, right,
• 37:24
  that we're getting crossed, though, is, you know, even
• 37:26
  though you might need us, someone who has St.
• 37:30
  Pat doesn't mean they're gonna get along.
• 37:32
  And that's something we should squash, you know?
• 37:33
  But also at the same time, it's an opportunity.
• 37:37
  Don't be dismayed. You might.
• 37:39
  You know, there's times where like I was working at my job and
• 37:42
  I was wearing my meal near at the time and now some people
• 37:45
  like, hey, that's a really cool neck that you got there.
• 37:49
  What is it? And you have a chance to explain
• 37:51
  it or what's was I like your mule mirror.
• 37:55
  Once someone says that, though, I'm like, all right, you
• 37:59
  probably. Know something at least you know
• 38:01
  you have to you have to have some idea that they might be
• 38:04
  practicing and but I'll say though there's been people like
• 38:07
  I've encountered and we share an interaction briefly and then
• 38:11
  that's that that's the end of it But then there are times we're
• 38:15
  lucky enough to come across. For me example, I came across
• 38:19
  this amazing guy on YouTube. I was sorry.
• 38:25
  I was trying to learn a basic heaven ritual in this guy.
• 38:30
  Like, you know, no records at all or sorry, but it's just, you
• 38:38
  know, I followed your channel and then we engaged with each
• 38:41
  other. And actually, fun fact I want to
• 38:43
  mention this live stream is very important though it was one year
• 38:46
  ago. We're sharing company with each
• 38:49
  other in person. That's an experience.
• 38:51
  And now I'm still reliving right now And despite all the bullshit
• 38:56
  that we put through, you know, I want to trade for the world.
• 38:59
  You know, we had a great time. But Jesse, we're an example that
• 39:03
  that fellowship became real and solidified, and we really had
• 39:09
  been doing nothing short of making memories and impacting
• 39:13
  each other on so many spiritual and significant levels.
• 39:16
  But that's the thing. Now.
• 39:18
  You might be lucky enough to come across someone like that.
• 39:20
  If not, and it's what it is, yeah, I feel like you will in
• 39:24
  time find someone like that. Like me and you what we.
• 39:26
  Should kind. Yeah, Kind.
• 39:28
  You know, kind recognizes kind. You know what I mean?
• 39:31
  If you're true and authentic to it, you're going to put your
• 39:36
  focus and you're going to put your energy to it.
• 39:37
  And I think that goes back to. The purpose of what we're
• 39:40
  talking about today, right? Why are we pagans?
• 39:43
  Why am I not Christian? Why am I not Muslim?
• 39:46
  Why am I not Buddhist? Why am I not Daoist?
• 39:48
  Why am I not any other things? Why am I not Hindu?
• 39:50
  Why am I not an atheist or an agnostic?
• 39:52
  Right. Why am I not anything else?
• 39:56
  Why is it that paganism, specifically Germanic Heathenry,
• 40:00
  right? Why is that the thing?
• 40:02
  Why am I that, especially after having lived more than half of
• 40:07
  my life? As something different,
• 40:10
  something that was antiphical of Heathenry and Paganism,
• 40:13
  something that abhorred it, and something that, you know, spoke
• 40:17
  down of it and condemns it. In something that the people who
• 40:22
  I was born and raised with and around and through have
• 40:26
  disassociated themselves with me because of it.
• 40:30
  Why do we choose to stay on these paths that have led to the
• 40:36
  heartache and that have led to the dissociation of family,
• 40:39
  right? Why do we do those things?
• 40:42
  Why don't we just go back to being a Christian or whatever to
• 40:45
  keep our family happy and to and to maintain those ties, right?
• 40:51
  For me, they they've all offered something to us.
• 40:55
  They've all given us something to learn and appreciate and to
• 40:59
  our stand about ourselves. And that's something you know,
• 41:03
  it's very important, you know, cuz.
• 41:05
  Like me today, and, you know, I'm still very much Pagan, very
• 41:09
  much, you know, honoring the gods and my ancestors and my my
• 41:15
  deities and my great spirit. But I always have an
• 41:19
  appreciation of love, not specifically for my practice,
• 41:23
  but for my upbringing and for the opportunities and moments
• 41:27
  that it gave me and provided me through various stages of my
• 41:30
  life. And that goes hand in hand or
• 41:33
  where I am today. And why I'm so on this path?
• 41:37
  Because this path has offered nothing but, you know, support
• 41:41
  and opportunities, and that's something I dealt once to stray
• 41:45
  away from I. Can't hear you.
• 42:01
  Sorry. I was muted.
• 42:02
  I I don't want to. I'm going to say that.
• 42:05
  I think one of the things that that Paganism has offered to
• 42:09
  people, and I'm going to speak for myself here because I don't
• 42:13
  want to over generalize or you know, put something in other
• 42:17
  people's minds. I think one of the things that
• 42:22
  Heathenry for me has taught me is that you are not a good
• 42:28
  person. You're not a valuable person,
• 42:30
  you're not a worthy person because of your religion.
• 42:35
  You are a worthy person. You are a good person.
• 42:37
  You are of value to your community by the deeds that you
• 42:42
  perform, by the things that you do, and your religion is just,
• 42:51
  it's part of you, it's part of your life and it's part of your
• 42:54
  practices, but it doesn't define you necessarily.
• 42:58
  I think that the morals and ethics that are associated with
• 43:02
  Heathenry are are very instructive to how society
• 43:07
  functions well. And so I think that inherently
• 43:12
  if you're healing, if you're, you know, if you adopt those
• 43:15
  those beliefs, then you are going to live in certain ways
• 43:18
  and do certain things that are constructive and and help the
• 43:22
  community at large. But I don't think you need that
• 43:25
  to be a good person and to be a person who is of value, right.
• 43:28
  So I think that one of the things like why am I paying is
• 43:30
  because it has helped me learn that I don't need religion to be
• 43:38
  morally and ethically good, right?
• 43:42
  I don't. It's part of it, you know, but
• 43:45
  it's not the thing that defines me.
• 43:53
  And I think when I was like when you know, when I was Christian,
• 43:56
  you know, like that was that was a very that was the opposite.
• 43:59
  It's like you you're only good if you're doing it this way.
• 44:04
  If you believe this way, if you follow this doctrine, you know
• 44:07
  everything else is not good. It was very one thing or the
• 44:10
  other. There was no there was no
• 44:13
  opportunity. There was no area in the Gray
• 44:17
  that was allowed to be explored. If you're either this or you're
• 44:20
  that, one or the other, you're. That's another thing too about
• 44:25
  this. Making those transitions too is
• 44:28
  very difficult and very challenging too, cuz for me
• 44:31
  example and I'm sure it's the same.
• 44:33
  I know for sure the same for you though, as we have branched out
• 44:37
  and. Separate ourselves from the
• 44:39
  flock. We dare to ask why.
• 44:42
  We dare to ask these hard questions and then sometimes
• 44:45
  hard questions from the hard answers or hard challenges to
• 44:48
  really push us to the limit. Like, well, why do I do that?
• 44:54
  Because more up in that one, we're following a path at such a
• 44:57
  young age, and that's kind of why I'm not very I don't promote
• 45:04
  religion. To children at an early age.
• 45:07
  But I could see why people would do that because it makes sense,
• 45:12
  because you want to start the mother young and get the mother
• 45:16
  susceptible. But I think that's kind of board
• 45:20
  wide manipulation too. No, that's that's absolutely
• 45:23
  what it is. Let's call it the way it is,
• 45:24
  right? That is manipulation.
• 45:25
  It it it, it's your your molding.
• 45:29
  I get. I get it.
• 45:30
  I get. It and I appreciate the energy
• 45:33
  and intentions that go behind. Hey, you're part of it's faith.
• 45:37
  It's helped me and blah blah blah, but also shove it down
• 45:41
  their damn throat and like, hey, by the way, Jesus Christ or Lord
• 45:44
  Saber. If you don't follow him, you're
• 45:46
  going away. You're not going to see your
• 45:47
  family again. See, that's his guilt.
• 45:50
  Shit and guilt. Yes, it's fear tactics, man.
• 45:54
  It's fear tactics, exactly. Right.
• 45:57
  And and and it's using something that should be and was
• 46:01
  originally intended to be so pure and and loving and
• 46:05
  beautiful and it's twisting in it.
• 46:07
  It's twisting it into a a just a a bastardized vile version of
• 46:15
  that. It's it's terrible and it's
• 46:16
  tragic how major religion specifically, because again
• 46:23
  let's let's call it like it is. I don't see stuff like that
• 46:26
  happening with within Pagan communities.
• 46:31
  The I see parents and and guardians and fosters of of
• 46:36
  children who are Pagans being very focused on the the
• 46:43
  upbringing of their children but they're not worried about the
• 46:45
  religious aspect of it. Like hey this is what I believe
• 46:48
  we're going to incorporate these things into our daily lives.
• 46:51
  There's none of this fear tactic going on to try and make them
• 46:56
  think that this is the only way that you should be.
• 46:57
  You have to be this way because I'm this way.
• 46:59
  There's a point in time that the child gets to choose, right?
• 47:06
  They've been exposed to this. But explore, learn, figure it
• 47:10
  out for yourself. I've given you this kind of
• 47:13
  blueprint to work off of because you're my child and you are
• 47:16
  under my care. And I'm gonna do those things
• 47:20
  that I feel are morally and ethically right and good to do.
• 47:25
  But I'm not gonna guilt you into thinking that anything else is
• 47:28
  wrong. Figure it out.
• 47:29
  Learn, discover, explore. And that's again why I'm Pagan.
• 47:35
  We go back to that topic, since that's the topic of the show,
• 47:39
  that another reason why is it allows for that growth and
• 47:42
  allows for that learning to take place.
• 47:47
  And that's what I love about it. Yep, it doesn't close any.
• 47:52
  Doors It doesn't close any opportunities you may wish to
• 47:55
  endeavor, whether you'll be learning more about the Egyptian
• 47:58
  culture or the Greek culture or whatever polytheistic faith.
• 48:07
  Because in fact, if you're a Peg and they want to really
• 48:10
  experiment, in fact, hey, Peg is doing good by me, but I want to
• 48:14
  learn more. There's nothing wrong with that.
• 48:18
  Nothing wrong. I mean, if you see something
• 48:20
  that has more to offer to you personally and as a person, you
• 48:25
  follow it, do it. Follow your heart.
• 48:28
  But more importantly, follow your heart.
• 48:34
  Don't base it off somebody you love and to care about.
• 48:37
  Because like, there's been times where I see someone I really
• 48:40
  care about and they follow something like, hey, I want to
• 48:42
  follow and do this and then you do it.
• 48:44
  And then you're like, this is not my cup of tea.
• 48:48
  There's nothing wrong at that, you know.
• 48:49
  Just don't be afraid of being different, you know, Follow what
• 48:52
  you follow. Do what you're gonna do.
• 48:54
  Just loves it. Doesn't hurt anybody or anything
• 48:56
  like that. Yeah, that's an interesting too.
• 49:01
  Or an interesting part of this too, right?
• 49:05
  Because we're using terms here on the show today that could be
• 49:11
  categorized as overarching, right?
• 49:13
  Paganism. That's an overarching term.
• 49:15
  You could be Celtic Pagan. You could be a Greek Pagan or
• 49:19
  Roman Greco Roman Pagan. We could be.
• 49:21
  Yo, whatever. Yeah, whatever.
• 49:23
  You know, I speak more on the Germanic Pagan side, right?
• 49:29
  The heathenry side. And even within that, you know,
• 49:35
  there are things that could be considered dogmatic, right?
• 49:41
  Don't do this because of that, right?
• 49:46
  The outcome? We don't.
• 49:48
  Yeah, And again, it goes back to the Culker, right?
• 49:53
  Why is it that way? Why did they believe it that
• 49:57
  way? If the tradition doesn't
• 50:03
  continue holistically, I feel like you're just kind of beating
• 50:08
  the dead whore. It goes back to like, why are
• 50:11
  you doing what you're doing with the purpose behind what you're
• 50:14
  doing if all you're doing is, you know, stuff?
• 50:17
  Because that's how it was written in Saga 1200 years ago,
• 50:22
  Okay. But have you found purpose in
• 50:26
  what you're doing when you do it that way?
• 50:29
  Or are you just regurgitating things because that's what was
• 50:34
  written in, you know, by somebody 1200 years ago?
• 50:39
  Find your purpose. That's what's sad to say,
• 50:42
  though, if like a lot of people. Not in our community per se, but
• 50:46
  like a lot of people, like we're raised Catholic or whatever
• 50:50
  faith and like, well, I'm here, I'm not going to change now,
• 50:57
  tweets Throat again. But some people are really
• 51:00
  missing some really great opportunities to really discover
• 51:03
  yourself as a person. And even though you might
• 51:06
  entertain or study this path, it's not for you.
• 51:10
  Again, going back to what I said earlier.
• 51:13
  You're getting an understanding and in my opinion that works
• 51:17
  towards your advantage. You know now anytime someone
• 51:21
  brings up that faith or topic that you studied and are
• 51:24
  familiar with, you have a position of reference and really
• 51:27
  understanding what you're talking about and really give an
• 51:32
  honest opinion and feedback. That's really necessary for
• 51:35
  someone who's trying to discover themselves.
• 51:38
  And ultimately, that's what we're trying to do is people on
• 51:40
  human beings is find what? It works best for us, be it
• 51:44
  Pagan, Catholic, Christian Buddhism, what I have you, you
• 51:48
  know, it's just what works best for you, works best for you.
• 51:51
  And we are going to come across people we agree and disagree,
• 51:55
  people we love and people we don't love so much.
• 51:58
  And like I use the extreme age word, but you know there are
• 52:01
  people that I influences and illness that I don't like at
• 52:07
  all. I do hate, but this is my
• 52:09
  position as a person. But you know.
• 52:12
  That's like despicable. People think once that one ass
• 52:16
  had his last. Name's Olsen or some shit.
• 52:20
  Joel Olsteen. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 52:24
  yeah. Yeah.
• 52:26
  Sorry. Not sorry, big evangelical types
• 52:28
  and stuff that all are in it for the money for.
• 52:31
  Money and followers and all that bullshit.
• 52:34
  You know, in the same group you said for the he and the
• 52:36
  community, there are people out there.
• 52:38
  Can't name anyone off the top of my hat, thankfully, but.
• 52:43
  Payton perish. I don't want to see if the same
• 52:45
  breed, but he leans towards that in my personal opinion.
• 52:50
  But that's just me being me and not.
• 52:53
  Yeah, I mean, you know, is it pandering?
• 52:55
  I mean, probably a little bit. But one of the things too, like
• 53:02
  because you mentioned something that made me think of this about
• 53:07
  knowing what we're talking about and and once you land on the
• 53:12
  things, you know, executing due diligence to make sure that
• 53:20
  you're knowing what you're talking about, you know what I
• 53:22
  mean? Doing your homework.
• 53:26
  I had a conversation with somebody.
• 53:28
  I say a conversation, but it was over.
• 53:30
  It was over a social media post that I made last week about a
• 53:36
  verse in the Bible that references God, you know,
• 53:41
  realizing that his creation was failing and the the the outcome
• 53:50
  was, well, I'm going to wipe him out.
• 53:51
  So I'm about like the flood, you know, know?
• 53:53
  Yeah, we're seeing that post too.
• 53:56
  And so, you know, there was a guy who commented on it, who
• 54:00
  I've known for a very long time and who I used to work with and
• 54:08
  who the line of work that he and I were in.
• 54:13
  So Rob, if you're listening to Washington, you see this, buddy.
• 54:16
  I don't know if you're going to catch this because now I don't
• 54:17
  know the reach and and if the algorithm's going to put it in
• 54:21
  front of you. But this was, this was a guy who
• 54:24
  I literally went to battle with, physical battle with.
• 54:28
  I I fought side by side with this guy.
• 54:31
  Yeah, in the physical warfare sense, right.
• 54:35
  So when it when when I talk about somebody who I would trust
• 54:39
  and all that like we're talking about like a war band kind of
• 54:43
  Brotherhood bombing, I. Have to ask, like specifically
• 54:48
  what kind of valley are you talking about?
• 54:51
  This was we were in prisoner transport.
• 54:53
  Shoot. All right.
• 54:54
  So yeah. And we had, we had an escape
• 54:57
  happen in our vehicle. Wow.
• 54:59
  He was asleep and I was driving. And we had two prisoners break
• 55:06
  out of the vehicle. I took off after one.
• 55:08
  He took off after another. He literally jumped up out of
• 55:11
  his sleeper berth, the sleeper bunk, and ran with nothing but
• 55:16
  stocks on. He had no shoes.
• 55:18
  And that was the kind of guy that he was.
• 55:19
  He's like, I don't care if I'm barefoot, naked or whatever, if
• 55:23
  if if something's happening, I'm going to be there with you.
• 55:27
  Not a guy, you know what I mean? But anyway, it's like the the
• 55:31
  post, you know, he's like going into like, well, you got to
• 55:35
  understand the context of the verses and and you got to read
• 55:38
  before and after. I'm like, Yep, I already know
• 55:40
  that because I literally grew up that way and I've read the Bible
• 55:43
  seven times on front cover. And like, one of the things that
• 55:48
  that came out of that post, he's like, I'm not much of a student
• 55:51
  of the Bible, so I'm gonna have to think about this.
• 55:53
  And I responded back and I said, okay, you ought to know more
• 55:58
  about your religion than I do, because that's your religion,
• 56:04
  that's your faith, that's your path.
• 56:07
  And you should be able to wipe the floors up with the likes of
• 56:11
  me. Exactly.
• 56:13
  You know, you ought to know what you're talking about instead of
• 56:15
  coming off to me with like, well, this is what I think.
• 56:17
  This is what? No man prove to me that you are
• 56:21
  a follower of Christ that you say you are or prove to anybody.
• 56:25
  You know what I mean? Like be on top of your game, you
• 56:29
  know. And that's one of the things
• 56:30
  too, like I think that and I could speak to him in this way
• 56:34
  because again, I've known him for so long and I've literally
• 56:37
  been side by side with him in physical combat and so I could
• 56:41
  be visceral with him in that way.
• 56:43
  But the point being is that you know some people just don't take
• 56:48
  themselves or or their religion or their fact that their their
• 56:51
  faith, their path seriously enough and they're like well,
• 56:56
  somebody else will, will help Educate me.
• 57:00
  You're like educate your damn stuff, man.
• 57:03
  Learn the things about this way that whatever way that is that
• 57:07
  you are going to pick and and the direction that you want to
• 57:10
  go in like take ownership of it right You sure be.
• 57:14
  You know, you can have mentors and and and and learn from
• 57:19
  people, but don't let that be the thing that guides you on how
• 57:24
  to think. And one of the reasons why I'm
• 57:26
  Pagan is that it really encouraged me and really pushed
• 57:31
  me into the path of discovery and learning things on my own
• 57:36
  right. Don't take someone's word for
• 57:38
  it. Find it out for yourself.
• 57:40
  Learn for yourself right. Be your own teacher in a way you
• 57:46
  know. Have a mentor.
• 57:47
  Have someone that you can go back to and bounce things off of
• 57:50
  and learn from, right? But also don't neglect the due
• 57:56
  diligence that you should be executing by finding out the
• 58:01
  answer for yourself. It's it's so easy to find.
• 58:04
  It ain't like we're trying to you know, climb the top of Mount
• 58:07
  Himalaya and and and risk life and limb just to get an answer
• 58:12
  for a question. We've got the Internet.
• 58:14
  We we've got it easy in comparison you know to even just
• 58:19
  the last 50 years of how how accessible knowledge is
• 58:23
  nowadays. And sure you've got to sift
• 58:25
  through and we through the minutia and and and bullshit.
• 58:30
  But I mean the knowledge is out there guys and and if you're not
• 58:35
  the way that I see it is if we're not researching and we're
• 58:39
  not we're not putting that effort into it.
• 58:42
  We're we're it's an affront to our ancestors.
• 58:45
  It's an affront to the gods. It's it's we're we're not doing
• 58:51
  it. We're not doing ourselves
• 58:52
  justice. We're not doing them justice,
• 58:54
  right? And so that's one of the reasons
• 58:57
  why I'm Pagan too, is because it it has instilled in me the sense
• 59:00
  of put in the work, go through the challenges, go through the
• 59:06
  ordeals, go through those things Because it's going to teach you
• 59:08
  a lesson. It's going to put in you this
• 59:11
  sense of I got what I got and I and I received what I received
• 59:16
  because I earned it. I know I wasn't just given the
• 59:18
  answer, I found the answer. I went through all of those
• 59:21
  things that I needed to go through to discover what I
• 59:27
  needed to discover. And it's kind of like making
• 59:31
  fire, you know? I could light a match, or I
• 59:33
  could you know. Lighter fluid or what happened?
• 59:37
  Lighter fluid or a cigarette lighter or whatever in a boom, I
• 59:39
  got fire right? Or I could, you know, with Flint
• 59:44
  and stone or friction or anything else like work to get
• 59:49
  that fire right. The end result is I've got fire
• 59:52
  in three seconds or I got fire in 15 minutes.
• 59:55
  Well, that fire that you receive in 15 minutes, that you work
• 59:59
  hard for that you had to, like, tend to and make sure that it
• 1:00:01
  took, There's that satisfaction. There's that reward sense,
• 1:00:08
  right? Like I earned this.
• 1:00:10
  The hunt is another thing, too, right?
• 1:00:13
  You go to the grocery store, you get your meal.
• 1:00:14
  You drive through a fast food place, you get your meal.
• 1:00:18
  There's a different sense of satisfaction that we receive
• 1:00:21
  when we cook our own meal, when we grow our own food and we
• 1:00:24
  slaughter our own LifeLock, all these things, you know, there's
• 1:00:29
  that sense of earning it that Paganism has taught me as well,
• 1:00:36
  so. Yes, very well.
• 1:00:39
  So it's one thing to be blindly supported and blindly follow
• 1:00:43
  something you're just doing yourself with the service at
• 1:00:46
  that point, yeah? And that's one really cool thing
• 1:00:50
  about this path though, is it challenges you and it push you.
• 1:00:53
  Sometimes that may deter a lot of people and that's fine.
• 1:00:57
  Those people who are easily deterred, not talking down those
• 1:01:00
  people, I'm just saying it's not you.
• 1:01:03
  Fireworks starts for you. Yeah, I mean, look like that.
• 1:01:07
  And that's life anyway, right? I mean, the way I see it is life
• 1:01:16
  is full of disappointments as life is full of things that are
• 1:01:20
  going to really challenge your your physical, your mental, your
• 1:01:23
  spiritual fortitude, right? And if you're not airing through
• 1:01:31
  that, if you're not doing the things that are going to
• 1:01:34
  condition you for those times, then those times when they arise
• 1:01:41
  are going to destroy you because they're going to happen.
• 1:01:47
  It's inevitable. It happens to everybody.
• 1:01:50
  Things happen to everybody. So we can prepare ourselves as
• 1:01:56
  best we can. We can, we can condition
• 1:01:59
  ourselves, I guess is probably the better term, right?
• 1:02:03
  Condition ourselves for those things that come up.
• 1:02:05
  So that way when they do come up, the blow that we receive,
• 1:02:09
  the impact that we receive is not so devastating.
• 1:02:14
  Yes, we're gonna feel it. Yes, it's gonna sting.
• 1:02:17
  Yes, it's gonna hurt. Yes, it's gonna suck.
• 1:02:18
  Well, it's worth it. Yeah.
• 1:02:23
  We've conditioned ourselves right to, when it happens, be
• 1:02:27
  like, gosh, man, that that was rough.
• 1:02:29
  That was bad. I'm hurting.
• 1:02:33
  I wish that didn't happen. Right.
• 1:02:35
  But we're not so mortally wounded.
• 1:02:37
  We're not so defeated that we can't rebound from it that you
• 1:02:43
  know it. It leaves us in there.
• 1:02:46
  It it kind of reminds me of when I get over opiates.
• 1:02:52
  It was so easy to stay on that path and not seek help.
• 1:02:56
  It was so easy just to go down that road of self destruction
• 1:02:59
  and not really seek any help or any support.
• 1:03:02
  It just leave myself to early grave.
• 1:03:06
  I said no, I have my accident. I almost died.
• 1:03:09
  I'm like, OK, well. It's time to change some things
• 1:03:13
  and charge myself and become the person I am today.
• 1:03:17
  And while they're happy with the person I have today, there's so
• 1:03:20
  much work to be done and that's something I'm working towards
• 1:03:23
  very soon and to this day. But that's the thing though.
• 1:03:27
  Any true path that you love and follow, that makes you hurt.
• 1:03:32
  It makes you question things, it makes you grow.
• 1:03:37
  You're on the right path. As long as it doesn't hurt you
• 1:03:41
  or put you in danger, you're on the right path.
• 1:03:45
  But this will be mindful of your expectations and your limits and
• 1:03:50
  your thresholds you're willing to cross.
• 1:03:53
  And everyone has their own limits.
• 1:03:55
  You know. Everyone has their, you know,
• 1:03:58
  yeah. That's right.
• 1:03:59
  I can't go past that. Yeah.
• 1:04:02
  Now, were you taken at the time when that happened?
• 1:04:06
  You know? No.
• 1:04:07
  The the over us No. I was.
• 1:04:10
  I was kind of like nothing at the time.
• 1:04:13
  Meals. I believe in the Great Spirit,
• 1:04:16
  but I wasn't any particular denomination at the time.
• 1:04:21
  So quick question then, if you don't mind answering, did.
• 1:04:26
  Did that you know when that happened?
• 1:04:33
  Was that any sort of, like influence for you to kind of
• 1:04:39
  like figure your kid out in a way?
• 1:04:42
  It was. It was for me.
• 1:04:44
  It really raised a really great point that I still to this this
• 1:04:47
  day is like even though I had no particular denomination or fate
• 1:04:51
  to follow, I knew there was something sacred and special
• 1:04:56
  there that protected me and got me to this point, you know,
• 1:05:02
  right now. Again, I'm not trying to say I'm
• 1:05:04
  not Norse taken or what have you, but I'm just saying during
• 1:05:09
  that point though, you know, I didn't know what I was and who I
• 1:05:11
  was, but I knew there's a higher force and that higher forces, I
• 1:05:15
  feel like it's still with me to this moment and to this day.
• 1:05:18
  No matter what path I follow, no matter what course I take, you
• 1:05:21
  know it's there saying hey, you're still alive for a reason.
• 1:05:27
  Don't mess it up. Don't do it again.
• 1:05:30
  So she'd get on opiates again. Mother Effer.
• 1:05:32
  You know, I'm just saying that's her.
• 1:05:33
  And I'm like, OK, good, I hear you.
• 1:05:36
  But I'm perfectly grateful to be a lie to this day, to do what I
• 1:05:40
  do. Yeah man, I am, I am.
• 1:05:44
  I'm grateful for your existence and for your life.
• 1:05:47
  And I know a lot of other people are too, cuz again, we wouldn't
• 1:05:51
  have what we have here today if it if it weren't for that.
• 1:05:54
  So you know, I think one of the things too, that paganism like
• 1:06:00
  why are we this is that appreciation of life in general,
• 1:06:07
  knowing that life exists in ways that we can't always see the
• 1:06:11
  unseen I. Know that you mentioned too
• 1:06:14
  though is like we mentioned this at all our previous not mean you
• 1:06:19
  specifically, but you know there are times that you follow a path
• 1:06:23
  like this, for example that you just have the best time in the
• 1:06:26
  world for the longest time but then.
• 1:06:29
  You get to the inevitable burnout phase, I thought.
• 1:06:34
  Right there is the opportunity and prove it around to really
• 1:06:38
  determine whether or not this is for you or not.
• 1:06:41
  And that's something I face frequently on this path.
• 1:06:45
  I'm still steadfast when I believe in because I commit
• 1:06:48
  myself to this, that I want to continue it and let it throw me
• 1:06:54
  to the person, a man that I'm meant to be.
• 1:06:57
  And that's my guidelines, that's my foundation as to who and what
• 1:07:01
  I am today, Jesse. What about you though, So as far
• 1:07:07
  as like, burnout? Now let's see, you had a burnout
• 1:07:11
  phase, but some challenging. So yeah, for sure, man.
• 1:07:15
  I mean, and that's life too, cuz there's days and there's
• 1:07:22
  moments, right? Like we all say where or just
• 1:07:26
  like what's the point? Like why am I even doing what
• 1:07:28
  I'm doing? What's the, you know, you start
• 1:07:31
  getting inside your head and you start over processing, you start
• 1:07:34
  overthinking those things. I mean you in the sense of us,
• 1:07:39
  right? Like we we, we start really
• 1:07:41
  trying to overanalyze the simplicity of things.
• 1:07:46
  And I think one of the one of the things that's helped me is
• 1:07:51
  like this is your part of the human condition.
• 1:07:54
  It's part and parcel with what comes with us existing in this
• 1:08:00
  meat suit. You know, we're burdened down
• 1:08:04
  with health deprecation in many ways, you know?
• 1:08:09
  And I see that a lot too. Like, I'm the kind of person who
• 1:08:13
  will make fun of myself on a dime, You know what I mean?
• 1:08:18
  I'll I'll roast myself easily, quickly, and and and give no
• 1:08:25
  second thought to it. And I've given thought to that
• 1:08:28
  too over time. And I'm like, but why, right.
• 1:08:33
  Is it this moment of just realization that, yeah, I am
• 1:08:41
  that like I I am that dispensable.
• 1:08:44
  I am that disposable. I am.
• 1:08:47
  I am that laughable, right? I am that joke, you know?
• 1:08:51
  Or is it this underlying darkness that I haven't yet
• 1:08:59
  faced? You know, am I really just
• 1:09:01
  making fun of myself nonchalantly, or am I believing
• 1:09:05
  any of that? And when I say those things to
• 1:09:07
  myself, am I reinforcing that because our, you know, our, our
• 1:09:13
  conscious girls, I don't think, I don't believe at least that we
• 1:09:18
  can discern the difference between what somebody says to us
• 1:09:21
  and what we say to ourselves. So this, like self deprecation,
• 1:09:28
  is received into our unconscious health the same way as if
• 1:09:32
  somebody else were to say those things to us in a derogatory
• 1:09:36
  way. It's a negative crap.
• 1:09:41
  And why would I want to feed myself with that negativity?
• 1:09:45
  I wouldn't want to be fed that negativity from anyone else.
• 1:09:48
  Why would I treat myself for that negativity, right?
• 1:09:51
  Because it's not doing anything constructive or good for my
• 1:09:55
  growth. If anything, it's poisoning the
• 1:09:57
  well and it's poisoning myself. So I don't know if I answered
• 1:10:05
  what you were asking, but I kind of look it in a way of like,
• 1:10:11
  it's it's so it's it's part of the human condition, right?
• 1:10:13
  It it's part of what happens. It it it does.
• 1:10:18
  But again, it goes back to what I was trying to say earlier was
• 1:10:21
  like knowing that and recognizing that and then doing
• 1:10:26
  things that counteract those behaviors, right?
• 1:10:30
  Conditioning ourselves to deal with it and be like, no, I'm not
• 1:10:35
  a piece of shit, right? No, I'm not.
• 1:10:36
  Just no, I'm not that. And that's again, and that's
• 1:10:43
  what we're saying now is this is like.
• 1:10:45
  What was respect and appreciate about this path though is like
• 1:10:50
  there are moments though we feel connected, inspired, it's just
• 1:10:53
  so great. But then other days, more often
• 1:10:58
  than not for me it's like there's days like why am I doing
• 1:11:01
  this? But then I'm like, well that's
• 1:11:03
  why, that's why, that's why. But that's after a dark period
• 1:11:07
  of like you know, self doubt and self criticism.
• 1:11:11
  Me personally, because you know. I admit I struggle with self
• 1:11:16
  love, but that's something I really love about this path as
• 1:11:19
  well. It's like there's those times
• 1:11:21
  I'm lacking self love and struggling and I'm not seeking
• 1:11:26
  love for support, but that love support finds that way to me.
• 1:11:31
  Whether I seek it or not. Someone or something happens.
• 1:11:35
  It's like, hey, yeah. You're not brings that balance.
• 1:11:40
  You're gone. You're not exactly.
• 1:11:42
  You're not. And when you find yourself in
• 1:11:45
  that position, I think also that's a good, a good sign.
• 1:11:49
  I'm not saying that's a clear indication you're on the right
• 1:11:51
  path, but I'm saying that's a good sign.
• 1:11:53
  You know you're you're doing something right, you know.
• 1:11:58
  But also saying why though is like top of mention is too and
• 1:12:02
  opposed is like when you go out to the to nature it's a great
• 1:12:06
  the great sacredness you know of Mother Earth.
• 1:12:09
  And you're like, all right, I'm going to go to this place to go
• 1:12:11
  hiking and whatnot. I'm going to find myself, but
• 1:12:15
  more often not you. You get there for your emotional
• 1:12:19
  baggage, and art that you're dealing with is still very much
• 1:12:22
  with you. You're at that sacred spot, yes,
• 1:12:26
  but you're not enjoying the sacredness.
• 1:12:31
  We just kind of like you're halfway there, yeah.
• 1:12:35
  Take the necessary steps are really.
• 1:12:38
  Put things in their place, like. All right, well, I'm worried
• 1:12:41
  about this. Here you go.
• 1:12:44
  I'm stressing about this. Well, there you are.
• 1:12:48
  Leave it at the door in a way. Really give yourself an
• 1:12:54
  opportunity and chance to really find that moment that you're
• 1:13:00
  seeking. And more often not.
• 1:13:02
  Jesse, I've not mentioned several times.
• 1:13:05
  That sacred and important moment that you're striving for will
• 1:13:10
  not happen when you expect it. It'll happen when it's right,
• 1:13:17
  it'll happen. Exactly right.
• 1:13:19
  Exactly right. Yeah.
• 1:13:24
  Those are beautiful realizations, and it takes time
• 1:13:26
  to get there. Absolutely.
• 1:13:29
  And I think that's a good note to end on for the show tonight,
• 1:13:33
  like for today or, you know, for folks listening, watching,
• 1:13:35
  right. Don't be discouraged if you're
• 1:13:41
  in that phase of your journey that you just feel a little bit
• 1:13:46
  disjointed or disconnected from things.
• 1:13:51
  It's an opportunity. There's some days.
• 1:13:54
  There's just some days to help it among to cut you off.
• 1:13:57
  But like, there's some days. So moments and so nights and
• 1:14:02
  minutes, hours, weeks, days, what have you, what replies best
• 1:14:06
  for you. There are going to be times that
• 1:14:08
  are just not that great. Push through it and see what
• 1:14:13
  tomorrow offers. If tomorrow's not that great,
• 1:14:16
  keep pushing up And guess what? We're still here and we're still
• 1:14:20
  doing the best we fucking can and that's all we can do.
• 1:14:23
  Not just astagons or heans or whatever path you choose to
• 1:14:26
  follow. As a person?
• 1:14:29
  As a man or a woman? That's be the best you that you
• 1:14:32
  can be. Yeah, man, yeah, I endorsed
• 1:14:36
  that. I'll take.
• 1:14:38
  I'll buy that for a dollar. I'll buy that for a dollar, you
• 1:14:44
  know, That's really great, man. And I hope that people that have
• 1:14:49
  listened and watched this episode have gotten a little bit
• 1:14:53
  of a glimpse into why Patrick's Pagan, why I'm Pagan and maybe
• 1:15:00
  has helped solicit some thoughts within yourself as to why you
• 1:15:04
  are what you are, whatever you are.
• 1:15:08
  And we would invite you to share your thoughts about that either
• 1:15:15
  in the comments of this podcast or in the the fold or or
• 1:15:19
  whatever it is that you see, you know on the platform that you
• 1:15:22
  catch this on. Let us know why are you taking
• 1:15:27
  it? Why are you who you are?
• 1:15:29
  Why do you follow the path that you follow?
• 1:15:32
  It could help other people too. That's right.
• 1:15:36
  And contrary to other beliefs, this is the system of belief and
• 1:15:40
  path that we follow, that we encourage questions.
• 1:15:44
  Learn more about yourself. Learn more about your
• 1:15:47
  environment. Because when you ask questions
• 1:15:50
  are really diving into yourself. Don't miss that opportunity.
• 1:15:56
  Don't be scared of asking hard questions.
• 1:15:58
  It could be unpleasant or it could be extremely enlightening.
• 1:16:02
  Whatever feeling and experience you have, embrace it.
• 1:16:08
  And and moderation, of course, because it's very easy to get
• 1:16:12
  lost on the rabbit hole of intense feelings.
• 1:16:16
  Because I know Jesse and I, we've had these moments from and
• 1:16:18
  just like I'm on Cloud 9, but Jesse's like, all right, but
• 1:16:24
  hey. Stay grounded.
• 1:16:26
  And that's something we want to share with anyone who's watching
• 1:16:28
  the this podcast. You know, it might pull up your
• 1:16:32
  expressions in your, you know, enthusiasm, because you know
• 1:16:36
  whether it be good or bad. The opposite is right around the
• 1:16:39
  corner, so it's important just to bounce ourselves and prepare
• 1:16:44
  yourself for the best and the worst. 100% good stuff, man.
• 1:16:51
  And I appreciate you coming on here this week, and I've been
• 1:16:55
  with me sharing your ideas, sharing your thoughts and
• 1:16:57
  expressing yourself and being vulnerable in this way.
• 1:17:02
  Stick around for a little bit afterwards because I want to
• 1:17:05
  just wrap with you for a second. But for everyone else that's
• 1:17:08
  listening and watching this episode today, thank you for
• 1:17:12
  your constant and ongoing support.
• 1:17:13
  Be sure again to check all of the links that are annotated in
• 1:17:17
  the show notes or description of this video.
• 1:17:20
  The podcast Wherever you find them, show the support.
• 1:17:23
  And wherever you find it, in whichever ways that speaks to
• 1:17:27
  you, do all the things that the fickle algorithm guys so and
• 1:17:31
  graciously demand. You know how it goes.
• 1:17:34
  Like, love. Share all that jazz.
• 1:17:37
  Yeah, absolutely. But for everyone that's watching
• 1:17:40
  today and listening, thank you again.
• 1:17:43
  And until we hear from you again in the next episode, maybe God
• 1:17:46
  continue to notice you and may your ancestors smile.