Latest / Reborn w/ Antonio Boutros / EP.06 Luke Waters | Worship Is Warfare

Transcript

EP.06 Luke Waters | Worship Is Warfare · Reborn w/ Antonio Boutros

0:08
SPEAKER_00: And because the devil knows that strong, godly men are the greatest threat to his empire, he has done everything he can to tell you as a as an amateur MMA fighter, we'll we'll teach you something about uh humility and uh and fear going in there, you know, just you know, adrenaline dump and you're afraid this guy's trying to kill you.
0:31
SPEAKER_00: And that's a good thing.
0:32
SPEAKER_00: That's a uh kind of and worship.
0:35
SPEAKER_00: Worship is warfare, and and men need to uh understand that and claim the public space with worship and the ways that they live their lives and glorify God, but also litter and so that's the first step.
0:49
SPEAKER_00: Are you willing?
0:49
SPEAKER_00: Are you willing to make a sacrifice?
0:51
SPEAKER_00: Because this is the fight of your life, this right here, this work, the the the the goal toward a attain the willingness attained to, which is Christ.
1:01
SPEAKER_00: See is men who are willing to defend their faith.
1:04
SPEAKER_00: I believe that if you're not willing to defend your faith, you do not believe it.
1:08
SPEAKER_00: And what that means is not only being equipped to go and give an account for the hope that is within you, but also to fight for your families for yourself.
1:31
SPEAKER_00: What's up, man?
1:32
SPEAKER_00: Tony, how you doing?
1:35
SPEAKER_01: I'm good, I'm good.
1:36
SPEAKER_01: I've had a I've had a sprint of a week.
1:40
SPEAKER_01: I feel like I'm sprinting when I need to get me some rest, but it'll be I'll be I'll I'll live.
1:47
SPEAKER_01: I'm young.
1:48
SPEAKER_01: So yes, sir.
1:49
SPEAKER_01: We're made to run.
1:51
SPEAKER_00: You just got off of uh podcast?
1:54
SPEAKER_00: I did, I did, yeah.
1:56
SPEAKER_00: So we'll have to compare.
1:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, dude.
1:58
SPEAKER_00: I I always talk too fast.
2:03
SPEAKER_00: Who was the podcast?
2:05
SPEAKER_00: Summit Ministries.
2:08
SPEAKER_00: They are a um they work with Turning Point, they're a big like Christian worldview camp out in Colorado.
2:15
SPEAKER_00: Oh nice.
2:16
SPEAKER_00: It's so they uh I attended back in like high school and um I reconnected with one of the guys, and you know, for it's it's always good for them to be like, oh look, one of our graduates is doing something.
2:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, so that's a gigantic water bottle, dude.
2:36
SPEAKER_00: Holy crap.
2:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I go through like two of these a day.
2:39
SPEAKER_01: That's crazy.
2:41
SPEAKER_01: At least depending on the weather, depending on what kind of workout I did that day, because some days I'll like like some days I have muay thai, some days I lift, and so if I'm lifting, like I can go through almost, I feel like a full one and just one.
2:57
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if I've anything you want to do with Muay Thai.
2:59
SPEAKER_00: That's great.
3:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm doing Muay Thai.
3:01
SPEAKER_01: I've been doing Muay Thai technically for like two, two and a half years, but like wildly inconsistently.
3:08
SPEAKER_01: I've only been consistent for like a couple months now.
3:11
SPEAKER_01: Um I did boxing again inconsistently before that, and I was a almost a black belt on a tack window before that uh as a as a kid.
3:23
SPEAKER_01: Um I was almost a black butt.
3:25
SPEAKER_01: I like I was I was I got everything that I needed to get, and then I was on like a three-year program, and I just didn't extend.
3:33
SPEAKER_01: So I got to the editor three years, uh, but I had never tested into black belt.
3:38
SPEAKER_01: But I kind of I kind of wish I did because I would have gotten uh nunchucks and I would have gotten a uh wooden sword.
3:44
SPEAKER_01: But that'll be cool.
3:46
SPEAKER_01: It is what it is.
3:47
SPEAKER_01: So um I'm like burning up.
3:50
SPEAKER_01: Uh but are you ready?
3:52
SPEAKER_01: I'm ready, bro.
3:53
SPEAKER_01: Let's hit it.
3:54
SPEAKER_01: Cool.
3:55
SPEAKER_01: Uh is there anything?
3:56
SPEAKER_01: I always like to ask, is there anything that you want to uh either avoid or anything that you intentionally want to lean into specifically?
4:04
SPEAKER_00: Avoid.
4:05
SPEAKER_00: Avoid, interesting.
4:06
SPEAKER_00: Is there anything I want to avoid?
4:10
SPEAKER_00: Well depends on what you're asking.
4:12
SPEAKER_01: And we can also, if there's anything uh if there's anything mid-podcast that you're like, ooh, I actually don't want that in there.
4:20
SPEAKER_01: Uh like if you get more personal than you want to or whatever, um, we can always uh edit it after the fact.
4:27
SPEAKER_00: Great, wonderful.
4:28
SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, I think uh no, we're good.
4:43
SPEAKER_00: Go go wherever you are.
4:44
SPEAKER_00: You take you take you take me away, Tommy.
4:47
SPEAKER_00: Cool.
4:49
SPEAKER_01: Uh well I'll I'll just go ahead and I don't know that there's any way for me to hope that I could potentially restart this uh this note taker so it doesn't just take the beginning of this too.
5:05
SPEAKER_01: It'll be fine.
5:06
SPEAKER_01: It'll be fine.
5:07
SPEAKER_01: Uh this uh just positive, but it's okay.
5:16
SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, we uh a week ago we didn't even have the a video recorder.
5:22
SPEAKER_01: It just would summarize the call.
5:23
SPEAKER_01: So uh we just got a video recorder, so it's good now that we're doing virtual podcasts again.
5:28
SPEAKER_01: I haven't done a virtual podcast for a couple years, but um yeah, I'm I'm like not used to doing podcast virtual anymore, but it's it's cool.
5:36
SPEAKER_01: Um so I'll get started.
5:38
SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to the Everyone Podcast with Tony Boutros.
5:40
SPEAKER_01: Today I have the honor of interviewing a good friend, Luke Waters.
5:44
SPEAKER_01: Luke is a co-founder of Legion 12.
5:47
SPEAKER_01: X11.
5:48
SPEAKER_01: Is that X one?
5:56
SPEAKER_01: Okay, wait, our connection is not great.
6:20
SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry, it totally cut out.
6:25
SPEAKER_01: I'm wondering, I don't know if that's on my end or on your end.
6:28
SPEAKER_00: And I'm wondering whether we it switched over, it was on my hotspot, and then I switched over to the main wifi, so we should be good.
6:34
SPEAKER_00: Okay, that's it.
6:35
SPEAKER_00: Sorry, it like auto-connected to my hotspot randomly.
6:39
SPEAKER_01: That's perfect, because now I can restart the intro.
6:43
SPEAKER_01: Uh how do you say how do you say it?
6:45
SPEAKER_01: Legion 12.
6:47
SPEAKER_01: XII?
6:47
SPEAKER_01: Legion.
6:49
SPEAKER_01: Cool.
6:50
SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to everyone podcast with Tony Boosters.
6:53
SPEAKER_01: Today I have the honor of interviewing Luke Waters, co-founder of Legion 12, a national Christian Brotherhood for Young Men committed to strength, honor, and leadership.
7:02
SPEAKER_01: Luke is a junior at Hillsdale College, an Eagle Scout, and a Marine PLC candidate.
7:07
SPEAKER_01: Uh Luke co-founded Legion 12 in January 2024 with a vision to build dangerous men, disciplined, faithful, and mission-driven.
7:17
SPEAKER_01: Uh, he's an Eagle Scout, completed service projects and full trail to Eagle.
7:22
SPEAKER_01: Uh he's a Marine Corps PLC platoon leaders class candidate, uh, officer commissioning cast, uh attending Hailstone College, one of the most rigorous liberal art colleges in the country.
7:35
SPEAKER_01: And Legion 12 has chapters forming across the country with a fraternity meets military meets faith model.
7:43
SPEAKER_01: So, Luke, hopefully I got all that right.
7:46
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for being here.
7:47
SPEAKER_00: Just about thanks, Tony, so much.
7:49
SPEAKER_00: I should update that a little bit.
7:51
SPEAKER_00: Um, I initially was going down the track toward Marine Officer School, uh, ended up taking a different route as I felt the Lord was leading me toward uh national expansion here with Legion.
8:03
SPEAKER_00: And so uh, well, I did attend all of the PFTs and go through MEPs, and and that was an arduous process.
8:09
SPEAKER_00: Anyone who's gone through MEPS, uh the physical examination would know.
8:13
SPEAKER_00: Uh I I've decided to take a different route here with with Legion, but everything else, gold.
8:19
SPEAKER_00: Um, thank you so much for having me, Tony.
8:21
SPEAKER_00: I'm excited to jump into what it is we're building here uh at Hillsdale.
8:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, man.
8:26
SPEAKER_01: It's really cool.
8:27
SPEAKER_00: And you you're a junior, right?
8:28
SPEAKER_00: Uh junior, right?
8:29
SPEAKER_00: So I just wrapped up my junior year.
8:31
SPEAKER_00: I've got one year left, which means May of 2027, we will be launching uh Expansion National.
8:38
SPEAKER_00: So right now we have uh 20 members here at Hillsdale College.
8:42
SPEAKER_00: We have three other chapters down in Virginia, and those are just pilot programs where we're kind of collecting data on how our program uh interacts with more public non-Christian schools.
8:54
SPEAKER_00: So we've got one at Regent, which is a Christian school, one at uh William and Mary, and then one at Randolph Macon College.
9:01
SPEAKER_00: And and the vision is, as you you kind of mentioned, is to restore godly manhood to this generation.
9:08
SPEAKER_00: Young men are drifting with nihilism, marijuana, pornography, uh sports betting now has become really, really big, video games, and I saw this this vicarious masculinity.
9:21
SPEAKER_00: Men are sitting and they're playing their video games and watching their screens and they're not acting.
9:26
SPEAKER_00: And uh and so when I came to Hillsdale and we talked all about the the great books, and uh I I kind of asked these men, hey, do you want to be a great man?
9:36
SPEAKER_00: Do you want to be uh a man who lives a life worth writing a book about?
9:40
SPEAKER_00: And so that is kind of the the program we've developed and and really inherited.
9:45
SPEAKER_00: Uh we've we've inherited this understanding of godly manhood from the Western Christian tradition and are seeking to reinvigorate our generation with that vision.
9:56
SPEAKER_00: And so um, so the way we break it down, the understanding of godly manhood is three archetypes uh warrior, builder, and king.
10:05
SPEAKER_00: And we break that down into seven different domains uh mental, physical, spiritual, relational, behavioral, sexual, and vocational.
10:13
SPEAKER_00: And if there's a chink in any one of those places, a man's life will will fall.
10:17
SPEAKER_00: The devil will use that weakness and just sink that man.
10:21
SPEAKER_00: And so right now, culturally, we need men who are strong in these many areas that have an outward vision for their life, and we're we're here to provide it for them and to build them into the types of men that are able to carry the weight and the burden which they're called to carry.
10:39
SPEAKER_00: So good.
10:40
SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm I'm definitely curious to get more into Western Christian tradition uh later on in this episode.
10:49
SPEAKER_01: I think there's definitely a night and day almost difference between what we see in uh eastern uh uh, you know, here here in America, right?
11:00
SPEAKER_01: Uh in Christianity, it's it we're very much into grace abounds, love is uh abounding, love is overwhelming, like all these things.
11:11
SPEAKER_01: Like in and that's true.
11:13
SPEAKER_01: God loves us as his children.
11:15
SPEAKER_01: We don't have to perform to be loved, we don't have to uh do anything to earn his love or to earn our worthiness.
11:23
SPEAKER_01: It was all done for us at the cross, but we are called to partner with him, and as you outlined the three different ways in which we are uh, and correct me if I'm wrong on on your interpretation here, uh, how we are each called uh to partner with God as warriors, builders, and kings.
11:41
SPEAKER_00: Amen.
11:42
SPEAKER_00: Amen.
11:43
SPEAKER_00: That is that is the dominion mandate we see set up in Genesis.
11:46
SPEAKER_00: Uh Adam is told to be fruitful and multiply with Eve, and also to take dominion of the earth.
11:53
SPEAKER_00: That is what men are called to.
11:55
SPEAKER_00: And what currently our generation, Tony, what we're growing up in, is an effeminized and soft culture, one that constantly is seeking comfort, constantly seeking ease in our lives.
12:08
SPEAKER_00: And because the devil knows that strong, godly men are the greatest threat to his empire.
12:17
SPEAKER_00: He has done everything he can through those many things I mentioned prior to decimate man of this generation.
12:24
SPEAKER_00: And we're seeing a fracturing, we're seeing a serious drift, we're seeing suicide rates off the chart, we're seeing uh abusive prescription drugs and stimulants and and whatever men can use really to feel alive.
12:39
SPEAKER_00: And I believe fundamentally that as a man, if you were living in your calling, living in your purpose as a man, going out and taking dominion of the earth and over those domains in your life, you will you will feel alive.
12:52
SPEAKER_00: You will feel that Zoe life that the Holy Spirit brings into your life, breathe, that breathes us in, uh breathes into us.
13:00
SPEAKER_00: Um and so, yeah, we we built this program here at Hillsdale after seeing lots of the talk and kind of being fed up with it, frankly.
13:08
SPEAKER_00: You know, we we Christians love our conversations, we love our our theology debates, and we love all of these things.
13:15
SPEAKER_00: They're great, they're wonderful.
13:16
SPEAKER_00: But what are you doing?
13:17
SPEAKER_00: What are you actually doing to build the culture, to to build your family and uh your college and your church intentionally?
13:25
SPEAKER_00: Those are the things that we have to focus on, and those are the things we need to be pushing men to do.
13:30
SPEAKER_00: And so the the foundation of our organization is that rightly ordered action.
13:35
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, we we have discussion groups curtainly, reading groups that we read through scripture and we uh read through the archetypes of godly men throughout the canon, but we don't let it stop there.
13:48
SPEAKER_00: We we push the men in their in their daily lives throughout the throughout the week and the month with events that train them in mixed martial arts.
13:55
SPEAKER_00: We do a lot of the kickboxing and training.
13:57
SPEAKER_00: I think it's very important for men to take a punch and to throw a punch, uh, to grow in courage and humility.
14:04
SPEAKER_00: You need both.
14:05
SPEAKER_00: Um losing a fight, I can tell you, as a as an amateur MMA fighter, will will teach you something about uh humility and uh and fear going in there, you know, just you know, an adrenaline dump and you're afraid, and this guy's trying to kill you.
14:19
SPEAKER_00: And that's a good thing.
14:20
SPEAKER_00: That's a good thing for men to undergo.
14:22
SPEAKER_00: It's a it's a forge.
14:24
SPEAKER_00: And uh, and again, like like I said before, the devil he sees these institutions that once uh forged these men into the type of man who built Christendom and has since infiltrated and destroyed and watered down all of those institutions.
14:41
SPEAKER_00: And right now we have uh a world with very few men's only institutions, very few men's organizations.
14:49
SPEAKER_00: The ones that are still existing um have largely been infiltrated or watered down to a very Gnostic understanding of Christianity, of you as a man, that separate the body and the soul, the divorce those two, and they cannot be separated.
15:04
SPEAKER_00: And so we're trying to return that uh through action, uh, kind of and worship.
15:10
SPEAKER_00: Worship is warfare.
15:11
SPEAKER_00: And and men need to understand that and claim the public space with worship and the ways that they live their lives and glorify God, but also literally in singing.
15:22
SPEAKER_00: Men need to sing and they need to sing great hymns and psalms.
15:26
SPEAKER_00: You know, that is that is what the the Christian tradition shows us.
15:30
SPEAKER_00: And so I think it's it's crucial that we get this right, or else we're not going to see the kind of change that we need to see in the in the culture at large.
15:41
SPEAKER_01: Got it.
15:43
SPEAKER_01: So you started uh Legion 12 at 19, right?
15:47
SPEAKER_00: I started the man, it was the 19?
15:49
SPEAKER_00: I think so.
15:49
SPEAKER_00: I was 19, I must have been 19, yes, that's correct.
15:52
SPEAKER_01: You kind of touched on what we're seeing in uh modern society today with men being feminized and uh how we are more or less draining away from how we are ultimately called to live as men of God.
16:08
SPEAKER_01: Um at that time when you first launched Legion 12 with your co-founder, uh, what were you seeing in guys your age that made you say, someone needs to build this?
16:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
16:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it's a great question.
16:22
SPEAKER_00: You know, it actually, you know, this whole process began back in high school.
16:26
SPEAKER_00: Um I had a friend whose father had a lot of PTSD from fighting in the Middle East, came home one day, and after spiraling with drugs, alcohol, pornography, watching the day, uh walking the door one day, wearing a dress and a wig and makeup and all this sort of stuff.
16:41
SPEAKER_00: And of course, it just destroyed the family.
16:43
SPEAKER_00: And he was really seeking out godly masculine mentors that would cast a vision for what it means to be a man.
16:51
SPEAKER_00: And uh, and what the culture was providing at the time was Andrew Tate and uh and uh Reddit forums and you know um discussion groups, you know, and and what I saw after, really after actually my my high school battle, my greatest battle in high school, was the battle over pornography that started at age 11 or 13, and and I fought that fight, and still fight that fight today, you know, and and have to take measure because guess what?
17:20
SPEAKER_00: Like it's always after you, and and you must flee from it.
17:23
SPEAKER_00: And so after coming clean and confession uh to my parents about what was what it was that was destroying my life at 17 and experienced the immense, experiencing the total freedom from that.
17:36
SPEAKER_00: That was when I was like, oh wow, if every man, if every man in the country experienced this level of freedom, what could we see in our culture?
17:44
SPEAKER_00: What can we see in the world around us?
17:46
SPEAKER_00: And that right there was really, really formative.
17:50
SPEAKER_00: So when I saw these young men drifting toward the Androidates of the world, drifting toward absolute nihilism, absolute despair, taking the black pill.
17:58
SPEAKER_00: Um, I was like, we have to provide something.
18:02
SPEAKER_00: And uh and and Legion 12 is it was my my answer to that.
18:06
SPEAKER_00: What is black pill?
18:07
SPEAKER_00: I've not heard that one.
18:08
SPEAKER_00: So the black pill, uh there's there's a couple different ways in which people use these terms.
18:13
SPEAKER_00: Essentially, the red pill and blue blue pill idea is from the movie The Matrix in the 2000s.
18:19
SPEAKER_00: And essentially there's artificial intelligence takes over everyone's lives, and these robots essentially turn human beings into battery sources, uh uh basically batteries, and they they simulate this whole world.
18:32
SPEAKER_00: So, in their minds, as all these human beings are hooked up to this, like these wires and stuff, they're living this simulation in their minds, and in reality, the world is actually much darker, and they're just like unaware of that.
18:43
SPEAKER_00: And so the red pill is what like helps you know Neo escape from the matrix and see reality for how it is.
18:51
SPEAKER_00: The online world is basically used these terms now culturally to say the blue pill guy is the is the man who doesn't understand you know the the true principles of being a man and is uh is totally effeminized.
19:07
SPEAKER_00: And there's a really key distinction here: feminism, femininity, and effeminization.
19:13
SPEAKER_00: Feminism is godly and good and glorious.
19:17
SPEAKER_00: Uh feminism, uh there's there's lots of different kind of takes on that, but but really it is what it is today is a complete distortion of that.
19:25
SPEAKER_00: It is the uh it is the um the curse of Eve made manifest culturally, and we see that desire to rule over her husband uh take the form of feminism.
19:38
SPEAKER_00: And then with effeminate femininity, that is the distortion of manhood, uh, which oftentimes we see, unfortunately, whether it's in the church and the culture, that tells men if you want to be a more godly man, if you want to be a good man, you actually have to become like a woman.
19:58
SPEAKER_00: And that's just not true.
20:00
SPEAKER_00: You know, the the church tells a lot of guys like check, check your, you know, sorry for your audience, check your balls at the door, man.
20:07
SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, check your testosterone at the door, maybe is a better way of putting it.
20:10
SPEAKER_00: And and I say, like, no, actually.
20:13
SPEAKER_00: Actually, you as a man, you have a a masculine soul, actually.
20:18
SPEAKER_00: It's different, it's you as a male have a different soul than a woman, and you're called to different tasks and duties.
20:25
SPEAKER_00: And so, um, so and so what a feminism, a femininity does is it actually creates men.
20:33
SPEAKER_00: Paul condemns it.
20:34
SPEAKER_00: He says the effeminate will not inherit the kingdom of heaven.
20:37
SPEAKER_00: Those are the men who actually um uh in many ways they give in to the lust and temptations and the pride of life and the you know the the the pride of the flesh in the eyes of the eyes of the world, and they're conformed to it.
20:52
SPEAKER_00: And so we want to create our men who have stern backbones against these things, you know, uh be strong like men is what the apostle Paul tells us.
21:03
SPEAKER_00: And so, yeah, we've we've built this organization in an attempt to to kind of handle those those those problems that we see and uh and tell men that it is good to be a man.
21:16
SPEAKER_01: Got it.
21:17
SPEAKER_01: So on on the way I'm looking at this, on one side of the coin we have feminine men, on the other side of the coin, we have men who are following after guys like Andrew Tate.
21:29
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
21:30
SPEAKER_01: What is the difference?
21:31
SPEAKER_01: Where does uh Legion 12 come between those two to make it redemptive, to make it glorify God?
21:39
SPEAKER_01: And what's the difference even between Legion 12 and a fraternity or uh a men's Bible study?
21:45
SPEAKER_01: Where exactly does Legion 12 sit?
21:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so so I want to jump.
21:50
SPEAKER_00: Sorry, I didn't fully answer your question.
21:52
SPEAKER_00: You you I had asked about the black pill.
21:54
SPEAKER_00: So the red pill is this kind of like you know, pick up artist culture, get a bunch of girls, learn.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: How to game the system today.
22:01
SPEAKER_00: That's the form that it's taken, unfortunately, on the internet.
22:04
SPEAKER_00: And there's some good in it, you know.
22:07
SPEAKER_00: Be strong, know how to dress well, know how to socialize, all these things that once were not even talked about, you have to talk about that or think about that, because that was just normal.
22:16
SPEAKER_00: But our culture is so sick that we actually have to create separate spaces to talk about what how do you speak to how do you speak to other people?
22:24
SPEAKER_00: How do you how do you present yourself in the world?
22:27
SPEAKER_00: Black pill is the term for those who are despairing.
22:31
SPEAKER_00: Those guys who see the uh like the looks maxers on the internet, they see guys who are like doing plastic surgery and makeup and all this sort of stuff, you know, to be attractive.
22:40
SPEAKER_00: And they they think everything is just the physical, that you're never gonna have a fulfilling life if you're not, you know, if you don't, if you don't have a two-hour morning routine every day fixing your face.
22:52
SPEAKER_00: So the black pull guards are very despairing.
22:54
SPEAKER_00: They're the ones who think there's no hope for my life, you know, and and there's actually a right to be that way, to feel that way.
23:00
SPEAKER_00: You know, young men have been disenfranchised in this country.
23:03
SPEAKER_00: They have been, they're constantly overlooked for positions for uh because of DEI.
23:09
SPEAKER_00: Um, they they don't see a future where they can get married to a godly woman and have a good family and and have a household and have a happy, you know, successful life and career.
23:21
SPEAKER_00: So those guys are despairing.
23:22
SPEAKER_00: So when we look at to your last question, you know, where where does Legion fit within all this?
23:28
SPEAKER_00: What we uh we're doing is actually, I think, below all of this and above it.
23:33
SPEAKER_00: We we kind of see ourselves in many ways as the foundation uh of society, of culture.
23:39
SPEAKER_00: That's the work we're engaged in, is building men who are who are the or holding up civilization on their backs, but also the steeple, which rises above uh the political, which rises above the things in society.
23:51
SPEAKER_00: And that's the aim, the cross is what's upon the steeple, right?
23:56
SPEAKER_00: And so what we want to do is actually say, no, there's a third way, and it's a third way that we have inherited as Christian American men that has been passed down.
24:07
SPEAKER_00: And we have we have squandered that inheritance, and and former generations have squandered it and not passed it on.
24:13
SPEAKER_00: And so what we're doing here is nothing new.
24:15
SPEAKER_00: We're just rediscovering and and equipping men uh for that greater vision of godly manhood.
24:25
SPEAKER_00: And that is what I you know broke down those seven domains.
24:28
SPEAKER_00: Uh your mental, your mental state.
24:30
SPEAKER_00: What's going on in your mind?
24:31
SPEAKER_00: What what are you thinking about when you lay in bed at night?
24:33
SPEAKER_00: Um, physical.
24:35
SPEAKER_00: Are you sleeping?
24:36
SPEAKER_00: Uh I've had guys come to me and be like, yeah, man, I'm I'm I'm doubting in my faith.
24:40
SPEAKER_00: And I ask, um, what you know, how how much sleep have you been getting the past week?
24:44
SPEAKER_00: Uh like two or three hours.
24:46
SPEAKER_00: Okay, go with eight hours of sleep and we'll talk in the morning.
24:48
SPEAKER_00: And then it's like, oh no, I'm I'm just losing my mind.
24:51
SPEAKER_00: I'm going crazy.
24:52
SPEAKER_00: Um, but then uh mental, physical, spiritual.
24:56
SPEAKER_00: You know, what do you worship?
24:57
SPEAKER_00: What do you love?
24:58
SPEAKER_00: What are you ordering your life toward?
25:00
SPEAKER_00: Um uh relational, what do your relationships look like with your friends and family?
25:05
SPEAKER_00: Do you have any in real life friends?
25:07
SPEAKER_00: Have you touched grass lately?
25:09
SPEAKER_00: Um, those are all important questions to be asking.
25:12
SPEAKER_00: And the reality is, Tony, that online communities are not real communities.
25:17
SPEAKER_00: Community means to worship and work together with people around you.
25:21
SPEAKER_00: And being on a Discord forum is not that, is not the same.
25:25
SPEAKER_00: So on that front, you know, what separates us from some organizations is they have the right vision, but it's an entirely online community.
25:34
SPEAKER_00: It's I get online, I have a conversation once a month, you know, we check in on goals and accountability, but I don't see these men in my everyday life.
25:42
SPEAKER_00: And there's and you're if you remove the accountability aspect from it in a very real and visceral way, you can you can BS your way through it.
25:50
SPEAKER_00: You can just talk, you can just say, Yeah, you know, I'm I'm struggling this week, and and uh, you know, I yeah, man, porn's still running my life.
25:57
SPEAKER_00: And I say, like, you need to get into a community with men in your everyday life who are able to take your phone and say, hey man, if you're serious about killing sin, which you as a Christian must be, because if you're not killing sin, then can sin will be killing you, then welcome to our organization.
26:18
SPEAKER_00: We're going to take your phone and we're going to lock it down.
26:20
SPEAKER_00: And we're going to put in place not only not only filters, but also like lock your phone down so you're not able to access those things which are destroying your soul.
26:29
SPEAKER_00: And so that's that's where the the the in-person brotherhood really comes in key.
26:35
SPEAKER_00: And that that leads to the behavioral.
26:37
SPEAKER_00: Um, what do your habits look like?
26:39
SPEAKER_00: Your habits will determine your character and your destiny.
26:43
SPEAKER_00: As a man, they're very important.
26:45
SPEAKER_00: So we we've implemented a program where every every every day guys have a series of habits they must practice and train up and work on to build a beautiful, successful life.
26:57
SPEAKER_00: Um, one that is oriented toward the good and the true and the beautiful, and not just whether it's it's making money or or the destruction of your own soul through addiction and bad habits.
27:10
SPEAKER_00: So that's the the behavioral.
27:12
SPEAKER_00: The last two are sexual and vocational.
27:14
SPEAKER_00: And sexual, we we've said this is this is too important to not have as a separate category because we look at we look at great men throughout the church, great men all throughout um our nation, and so many men fall because of this sexual temptation that just destroys them.
27:34
SPEAKER_00: It decimates their ministries, their families, their homes.
27:38
SPEAKER_00: And so we think it's a very important one, the right understanding of purity as a godly man, and the right understanding of sex as a godly man.
27:46
SPEAKER_00: And then the last one is vocational.
27:48
SPEAKER_00: If men graduate our program, graduate college, they're you know 22, 23, 24, 25, and they're not involved in a uh a job or a mission or whatever it is that is fulfilling with uh with individuals who are leading that company that are actually working toward a Christian future of America, that are not aligned with them, they're actually helping the enemy.
28:09
SPEAKER_00: And we have too many great Christian men that are functionally working for the enemy that seek to destroy our civilization.
28:18
SPEAKER_00: And it's it's very critical that these men are brought into a network where they can find like-minded Christian men who love you know faith and freedom and family and say, these are crucial things.
28:32
SPEAKER_00: And you as a young man should be taking risks.
28:37
SPEAKER_00: You should be strong, you should be capable, you should go out and whether it's you know, you know, get out get on a boat and travel to South Sudan and plant a gold mine and work in ministry over there, whatever it is, like, dude, we want to connect our guys with those those best organizations, those groups that that are building this future that are aligned, that will give men the opportunity to buy a home, to have and raise a family, to stay in one place and invest in their community.
29:09
SPEAKER_00: And so that's uh that's another really critical piece of what it is we're doing here at Legion.
29:16
SPEAKER_01: That's good.
29:19
SPEAKER_01: One thing that's coming to mind is I don't know about you, I wasn't where I am today when I was 19.
29:28
SPEAKER_01: And so what is same, what is it, what is the standard uh to be in Legion 12?
29:34
SPEAKER_01: What gets someone removed?
29:36
SPEAKER_01: What's the commitment?
29:38
SPEAKER_01: Um how how do you know whether someone will end up being a good fit for a Legion or not?
29:46
SPEAKER_00: Well, the first question is are you willing?
29:49
SPEAKER_00: You know, we we're not we're not we're not we're not over here saying we want just the you know the the Giga Chad really cool based guy who's really jacked.
29:58
SPEAKER_00: And that's not so that's not what we're looking for.
30:01
SPEAKER_00: Um I mean those guys are great, they're great leaders, they can be.
30:06
SPEAKER_00: Um, but that's not the vision of the guy we're we're trying to reach.
30:11
SPEAKER_00: We're trying to reach, not necessarily, what we're trying to reach is is the guy who's willing to make a change, the guy who realizes the way and direction his life is going, or the culture around him is going, and says, I am willing to do difficult things in order for this more beautiful and lovely future.
30:30
SPEAKER_00: And so that's the first step.
30:32
SPEAKER_00: Are you willing?
30:32
SPEAKER_00: Are you willing to make a sacrifice?
30:34
SPEAKER_00: Because this is the fight of your life, this right here, this work, the the the the goal toward attain the goal we must attain to, which is Christ, the archetype of the godly man.
30:46
SPEAKER_00: That's not a box to check, that's a lifelong mission.
30:52
SPEAKER_00: And so um, and so you ask, you know, what what is required?
30:57
SPEAKER_00: Well, first is that step of I'm willing.
30:59
SPEAKER_00: You know, now we do have a kind of a rigorous initiation process after we interview the the young men and we see that they love the right things and are aiming at those same goals.
31:10
SPEAKER_00: Um they go go through this initiation process.
31:13
SPEAKER_00: And and some of the guys say, you know what, this is too tough.
31:16
SPEAKER_00: I'm not I'm not interested, and that's unfortunate, but we wish them well.
31:20
SPEAKER_00: But that process is is three days long and it requires early mornings and cold nights and not a lot of food and a lot of training and a lot of questions and a lot of discussions about where you know what is the worst case scenario for your life?
31:37
SPEAKER_00: What is the best case scenario for your life?
31:40
SPEAKER_00: And where are you at right now?
31:42
SPEAKER_00: And usually when men lay those things out, they realize hey, actually, I think the worst case scenario of my life is a lot closer than the base best case scenario.
31:52
SPEAKER_00: And it's right on the heels.
31:54
SPEAKER_00: And so after they realize that, then they see the value in our weekly training.
32:00
SPEAKER_00: Our, you know, twice a week we have we have mixed martial arts training.
32:03
SPEAKER_00: That's tough, man.
32:05
SPEAKER_00: Like you're gonna get not only like spiritual black eyes in this fight um against sin.
32:12
SPEAKER_00: You're you may also in our group get a black eye.
32:14
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, and I think that's good.
32:16
SPEAKER_00: I think it's great.
32:17
SPEAKER_00: Girls love it.
32:18
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, that's that's that's what I hear.
32:21
SPEAKER_00: So um, so you know, our our program on a weekly basis, we have multiple um standard, you know, activities we train in.
32:31
SPEAKER_00: Uh we set the guys up with mentors, with accountability partners.
32:34
SPEAKER_00: We we train a lot, we have a lot of different activities and events, skill workshops on how to how to kill and butcher a deer, um, how to clean that and process it.
32:45
SPEAKER_00: How do you fix a car?
32:46
SPEAKER_00: How do you learn to swing dance?
32:48
SPEAKER_00: How do you dress well?
32:49
SPEAKER_00: Those things are all great and good.
32:52
SPEAKER_00: Um, but but the real meat and potatoes is those Christian leadership seminars, which we hold weekly.
32:58
SPEAKER_00: And uh in addition to that, you know, we we will host events and do lots of service projects, and every week the guys are given a mission.
33:06
SPEAKER_00: Uh we call it a secret service, you know, all of our guys from the secret service, and they have a mission for that week, and they're not allowed to tell anybody else, but it's a a work, a good work they must do in their community.
33:18
SPEAKER_00: They must go out, it's okay, you know, this week I have to buy lunch for someone who seems lonely and is struggling, and go out and do that.
33:26
SPEAKER_00: And they can't tell anybody about it.
33:28
SPEAKER_00: And that's I think a really, really critical piece to developing humility in the lives of men is is habituating good works and service to others, uh, and then not you know, boasting about it.
33:45
SPEAKER_01: I wasn't sure if I wanted to go into this, but I think you just touched on it a bit.
33:50
SPEAKER_01: You in your marketing use uh the phrase dangerous men.
33:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think most people hear that and think reckless, most people hear that, and maybe even as we spoke about uh off camera, think toxic masculinity.
34:06
SPEAKER_01: What do you what does it actually mean that you are aiming to build uh and empower and equip dangerous men?
34:14
SPEAKER_00: Well, great, great question.
34:16
SPEAKER_00: I've got asked a lot about this because I think people see that and and maybe it raises some red flags and they go, okay, hang on, hang on, hang on.
34:23
SPEAKER_00: What is this whole dangerous thing?
34:27
SPEAKER_00: When you look through the history of the church, through the history of Christendom, what you see is men who are willing to defend their faith.
34:37
SPEAKER_00: I believe that if you're not willing to defend your faith, you do not believe it.
34:41
SPEAKER_00: And what that means is not only being equipped to go and give an account for the hope that is within you, but also to fight for your families, your your your your wife and your sisters and your brothers beside you, and the world that you have built, the world that your your forefathers have built, the freedoms that they have passed out.
35:03
SPEAKER_00: So when I say dangerous, I mean a very particular kind of dangerous, and I mean it in a very like serious way.
35:10
SPEAKER_00: You actually must be toxic, you must be dangerous to the regime.
35:16
SPEAKER_00: So in the regime, when that which promotes the gambling and the pornography and the apathy and the vicarious masculinity, when they're calling you dangerous to their regime, good.
35:30
SPEAKER_00: And if they're not, you should probably take a look at your life and go, what are more ways in which I can be dangerous to that regime?
35:38
SPEAKER_00: This also plays a very important role, actually, in you know, one of the reasons we want to train men in how to fight is actually to defend themselves.
35:46
SPEAKER_00: My uncle recently was in DC and he was charged by a crazed homeless man.
35:53
SPEAKER_00: He didn't want to use lethal force to protect his family as they were walking into a hotel.
35:58
SPEAKER_00: But because he was in the military and had combative training, he was able to subdue that threat and hold the guy out till security and police came out.
36:07
SPEAKER_00: I think men need to know how to defend themselves.
36:12
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, the man, the culture is so afraid of men who are unabashed in their faith, who can defend their faith, who can explain it, who are also able, if the time comes and if necessary, to physically defend their family.
36:33
SPEAKER_00: And if you are a good man and a meek man, the right understanding of that biblically is you are a man who knows how to wield the sword.
36:42
SPEAKER_00: Not you're out there brandishing your sword and you want to fight with anybody.
36:46
SPEAKER_00: And I went through a phase of that when I first started mixed martial arts and I was like, dude, I want to fight anybody and everybody.
36:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
36:52
SPEAKER_00: And that's not the right understanding.
36:53
SPEAKER_00: It's not just sheer aggression.
36:56
SPEAKER_00: It's actually very disciplined.
36:58
SPEAKER_00: It's actually very like, I know, I know the time and the place that uh, or I'm ready, you know, I'm prepared.
37:04
SPEAKER_00: If the if a time and a place calls upon me to use to defend myself and my family, I'm equipped.
37:10
SPEAKER_00: We want these men to be anti-fragile.
37:13
SPEAKER_00: Men of our generation must be anti-fragile, where whatever comes at them, the the meaning of that is whatever the world throws at you, you get stronger, you overcome that.
37:22
SPEAKER_00: And so um, so in building anti-fragile men, again, multiple categories of that.
37:29
SPEAKER_00: In building men who are who are toxic to the regime, there's multiple categories of that.
37:34
SPEAKER_00: But it really means in in the most um relevant way, um, in the way in which we do that, is getting men off of the sexual morphine drip that is pornography, getting them off of the nihilism and the apathy, which tells you you have nothing to live for and you have nothing to die for.
37:55
SPEAKER_00: And when men understand their relationship with Christ clearly, which is you know, Christ comes as a suffering and dying and humble king, you understand that, and they love him because he first loved us, then they're confident to go out and fight whatever battles are ahead of them, to to you know, wield the sword spiritually against the forces of darkness that are trying to destroy you as a man.
38:23
SPEAKER_00: Um, they're free from those things.
38:26
SPEAKER_00: And so, so when the actual term toxic masculinity was invented by a guy who uh this past year put an article out about you know the the conservative toxic masculinity war on pornography, you know.
38:40
SPEAKER_00: So if those people are calling you toxic, I take that as a compliment.
38:46
SPEAKER_01: That's good.
38:46
SPEAKER_01: I like that.
38:49
SPEAKER_01: How do you we we talked on feminine men versus entertained esque men and how Legion focuses on being Christ-like men?
39:03
SPEAKER_01: How do you keep Legion 12 rooted in faith, rooted in Christ, while maintaining a standard of excellence and uh truly fulfilling who we are called to be without it becoming performative, where we are performing for our worth or uh performing to prove ourselves or whatever it might be, and instead keeping it rooted in faith uh at the cross.
39:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
39:31
SPEAKER_00: You know, there's a there's a large push um on the internet, on the media that men consume toward an obsessive, unhealthy, um hustle culture.
39:46
SPEAKER_00: And I and frankly, I think I think that the the Christian men in particular are not usually the ones most given to that sin.
39:57
SPEAKER_00: Lewis says that in the screw tape letters that uh the devil wants us, and maybe in relation to the screw tape letters, the devil wants us running around with a fire extinguisher in a flood.
40:07
SPEAKER_00: I'm a little bit less concerned.
40:09
SPEAKER_00: Now I do see it, but my instinct is to be less concerned about men who are too ambitious and and too hopeful and optimistic and success-oriented toward what they can build.
40:22
SPEAKER_00: Those men, the proverbs say the glory of young men is their strength or their zeal in some translations.
40:29
SPEAKER_00: Young men need to uh come to the church and they need to find older and wiser mentors.
40:35
SPEAKER_00: And those mentors, it is critical that those mentors actually exponentially multiply those young men's zeal.
40:43
SPEAKER_00: Young men should be coming in into the church, and with the what I believe would be very good, it would be for a lot of those mentors to say, let me help direct you in the right in the right place, but I I love the zeal, and actually you don't have enough of it.
40:59
SPEAKER_00: You actually should be wholly in on this mission.
41:03
SPEAKER_00: Now, for the hustle culture, for the um Andrew Tate, your life will finally have meaning when you have a bunch of money and women and all that sort of stuff.
41:16
SPEAKER_00: You as a man are indeed called to be successful, to provide for your family.
41:21
SPEAKER_00: Um, but that it's a very um it's a very half, it's a very um impartial vision of of uh or partial rather vision of what it means to be a man.
41:32
SPEAKER_00: It it actually relates to all these other domains, your relationships, your habits, how you love and serve those around you.
41:40
SPEAKER_00: Um and so you know, even in that that mental category, a lot of guys can can develop this mindset of, well, if I work enough, then Christ will love me.
41:51
SPEAKER_00: And and so it's it's almost, you know, I had a friend actually we spoke about this, and and he said, you know, for so much of my life prior to Legion, it felt like I was I was there at the foot of the cross, and Christ is up there dying for my sin.
42:07
SPEAKER_00: And I'm jumping up and down trying to get him to look at me, like give me attention, like here I am, you know, like like look at me.
42:14
SPEAKER_00: And he was kind of just looking through him into the crowd.
42:16
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes I mean it's a very hard thing to really understand that Christ died for you.
42:23
SPEAKER_00: We say it, you know, for the world.
42:25
SPEAKER_00: Yes, true.
42:26
SPEAKER_00: John 3 16.
42:28
SPEAKER_00: But that is the thing that it's it's very hard to really intimately understand is that Christ died for the world.
42:34
SPEAKER_00: But what you can really understand is Christ died for you individually.
42:39
SPEAKER_00: And he said, after kind of this process of spiritual growth through our program, he finally felt like when Christ was up there on the cross, that Christ looked at him, not through him, not toward this broader idea of just the world, but he's looking at him individually.
42:56
SPEAKER_00: Um when men realize that that is the basis of anti-fragility.
43:02
SPEAKER_00: Because if you as a man believe that you that your your salvation is based upon your own works and your own deeds and your own, I got I got the you know, I got Jesus to take note of me and see, oh, I'm a real you know, warrior for Christ.
43:16
SPEAKER_00: Um, if it's based in that, I'm telling you right now, man, the the accusations of the devil will be way stronger than that.
43:23
SPEAKER_00: They will they will just destroy you, they'll tear you down.
43:26
SPEAKER_00: Guess what?
43:27
SPEAKER_00: You're not perfect.
43:28
SPEAKER_00: You will continue to sin.
43:30
SPEAKER_00: And what do you do then?
43:31
SPEAKER_00: Does that mean that everything you built is is for naught?
43:35
SPEAKER_00: Does that mean that um it was all a waste?
43:38
SPEAKER_00: No, actually, no.
43:39
SPEAKER_00: So I think I think that that hustle culture which you're talking about, which you kind of you hinted at, like that is um that is a real poison, and it's very unhealthy and will lead toward destruction in so many other domains of a man's life.
43:54
SPEAKER_00: And it's it's critical they have a full understanding of godly manhood.
44:02
SPEAKER_01: I was listening to a podcast yesterday and they were talking about Nimrod.
44:06
SPEAKER_01: You know much about Nimrod?
44:09
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
44:10
SPEAKER_01: I feel like Nim Nimrod, you know, Andrew Tate, you could argue is the modern day Nimrod, right?
44:16
SPEAKER_01: Where it's all about how can I get all these people unified, right?
44:20
SPEAKER_01: Because Nimrod was probably a really good leader, but for the wrong purposes.
44:26
SPEAKER_01: And he perverted people into following, building their own their own way, their own path, their own glory ultimately, and diverting glory from God to where I believe in, I haven't studied the uh you know the scriptures specifically on Nimrod anytime recently.
44:45
SPEAKER_01: Um, but I believe he he was like trying to kill God, if I'm not, if I'm not mistaken.
44:51
SPEAKER_01: Right.
44:51
SPEAKER_01: And so it's it's interesting to just see how in modern day, you know, those stories continue to repeat itself.
44:59
SPEAKER_01: And um how Legion, you guys are kind of navigating what would be really narrow, you know, the the the the Bible says we are called to walk on a narrow path.
45:13
SPEAKER_01: Um, and it sounds like you guys are doing that.
45:16
SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, man, it's not easy, right?
45:18
SPEAKER_00: There's a lot, there's a lot of threats out there, there's a lot of ditches to fall into.
45:23
SPEAKER_00: And and so, but that that doesn't mean you don't try.
45:28
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that doesn't mean you don't be ambitious.
45:31
SPEAKER_00: That doesn't mean you don't, you know, um seek after a vision, uh, after a vision of fulfilling the the duty that God has placed upon your life because it may be hard or because you know you may risk failure.
45:46
SPEAKER_00: Because I think in a lot of ways, the fear to attempt, fear to try, to dare greatly, is a product of men believing once again that it is their works that justify them before the Lord.
46:00
SPEAKER_00: And if you believe that, well then what happens when you fail?
46:06
SPEAKER_00: Then you lose your salvation.
46:08
SPEAKER_00: And so when men realize that it is Christ's work who loves them, and it is because of that work that they are saved, not because of their own running around and and and doing deeds.
46:22
SPEAKER_00: And that's and those are important, those are crucial.
46:24
SPEAKER_00: Faith without works is dead.
46:26
SPEAKER_00: Um but it doesn't say faith without victorious attempts, doesn't say faith without success, that's faith without works.
46:38
SPEAKER_00: You should be trying, you should be daring greatly.
46:40
SPEAKER_00: Do not be the servant who who buries the talent.
46:45
SPEAKER_00: Don't be him.
46:47
SPEAKER_00: The master condemns him because he does not take account of the gifts and blessings that God has given him, whether it's with his relationships and connections, financial resources, um, natural skills and abilities.
47:02
SPEAKER_00: Guys are are young young men do not they just have this like sickness I see, and it's just uh uh insecurity and a lack of belief in their own ability.
47:12
SPEAKER_00: And I say, like, dude, you can do so much good if you are just willing to take that step to to to risk.
47:21
SPEAKER_00: And maybe you fall, you know, maybe you do, maybe it doesn't go the way you want it.
47:26
SPEAKER_00: Maybe this business that I'm running tomorrow collapses.
47:30
SPEAKER_00: Okay, that does not shake my faith.
47:33
SPEAKER_00: That does not change my standing before the Lord.
47:36
SPEAKER_00: Because again, that's outside of this, outside of my own success.
47:41
SPEAKER_00: And so once you have that right understanding, I really believe then you are the kind of man who is able to take all the assaults of the world, and then you're able to change the war around you for the better.
47:56
SPEAKER_01: As you build Legion, and as I even as I build Reborn, keeping that mindset that you just described front and center, not only in our mind, but in our heart and in the way that we walk, and not only in the way that we walk, because we can walk one way, and and again, in our heart, in our mind, in our time that uh inventive you know, when we're when we're struggling to fall asleep, can be a completely different belief.
48:21
SPEAKER_01: What is what is the hardest lesson uh in in on one side keeping that mindset, or if it's something completely different just in building Legion 12 that you've you didn't expect?
48:36
SPEAKER_00: Well, on the on the topic of of of attempts and trying and failing, what I would tell anybody is when you attempt something, um dare greatly.
48:54
SPEAKER_00: When you fail, fail fast, fail big, you'll learn.
49:00
SPEAKER_00: Like when I took my first MMA fight, dude, it was like it was terrifying.
49:05
SPEAKER_00: I had like 30 days of training before that.
49:08
SPEAKER_00: That was dumb.
49:09
SPEAKER_00: I should have had more, you know, I should have given more time.
49:12
SPEAKER_00: But I was in I was in a dark period of my life and I I needed something to focus on, and that was kind of what materialized.
49:19
SPEAKER_00: And you know, I was so brutal about it, Tony.
49:24
SPEAKER_00: I lost that fight with 0.8 seconds on the clock.
49:31
SPEAKER_00: Apparently I tapped out.
49:32
SPEAKER_00: I don't remember tapping out, frankly.
49:34
SPEAKER_00: Uh but you know, 0.8 seconds left on the clock.
49:38
SPEAKER_00: And I think back to that, and and I just I was in a in a dark place going through that, and and the the Lord brought me through that and gave and restored my hope and my courage.
49:48
SPEAKER_00: But um, but being there, you know, a couple hard lessons.
49:53
SPEAKER_00: One, like uh a lot of times you're a lot closer than you think.
50:00
SPEAKER_00: A lot of times when you're you've been at it and you've been training and you've been going through the motions and you're just exhausted and you feel like you're about to lose, a lot of times you're 0.8 seconds away to getting there.
50:15
SPEAKER_00: And so so so that's the first thing.
50:19
SPEAKER_00: Like take hope, take heart.
50:21
SPEAKER_00: You know, Christ has already conquered.
50:23
SPEAKER_00: So continually renew your faith by looking back to the scriptures, um, and your courage by looking back to the scriptures.
50:31
SPEAKER_00: The other thing is when you screw up, when you you drop the ball, when you don't perform as you should have, um up to it immediately.
50:42
SPEAKER_00: You're never going to um grow from those failures if you do not learn those lessons.
50:49
SPEAKER_00: And if you don't own up and you say, well, you know, there was this thing in my life, this other thing, and the reason I didn't get there was because I, you know, I cut weight too soon and get away.
50:58
SPEAKER_00: All the excuses you want, but you're not gonna grow from that.
51:00
SPEAKER_00: You have to take, as a man, ruthless accountability.
51:05
SPEAKER_00: Because even if I'm driving down the road and someone slams on the brakes and and I smash into their car, I you know, I can totally be like, oh, well, but you know, they shouldn't have slammed the brake, and that's their fault, and they were distracted, whatever.
51:18
SPEAKER_00: Fine.
51:19
SPEAKER_00: Give yourself grace.
51:21
SPEAKER_00: Don't beat yourself over it.
51:22
SPEAKER_00: But you've got to ask, what could I have done better?
51:26
SPEAKER_00: Could I have, prior to this, been driving in a more defensive and safe manner?
51:31
SPEAKER_00: Could I have been, when I'm in, you know, in training or in the gym or whatever, like increasing my reflexes, all these things, like just improve, even those 1% things could have alleviated the situation in some way.
51:43
SPEAKER_00: So it's by constant and ruthless accountability, um, self-ownership, uh, self-discipline.
51:50
SPEAKER_00: And it's gonna be, I'm telling you right now, it's gonna be so, so hard to develop those things in your life if you don't have men around you.
51:58
SPEAKER_00: And I was trying for so long to do it alone.
52:01
SPEAKER_00: And then and when you fall and you're alone, um despair kicks in.
52:10
SPEAKER_00: And there's a couple points, you know, when I first started this whole organization where I was low, man, I was like despairing.
52:16
SPEAKER_00: I was like, you know, I I failed totally, I should give it up.
52:20
SPEAKER_00: And I had an incredible friend come to me and say, Luke, you don't get to just phone it in.
52:28
SPEAKER_00: There are too many men who need this.
52:31
SPEAKER_00: You don't get to sit in your room and sulk about and and complain about the world and say things should have been different.
52:37
SPEAKER_00: No, you have to get up the next day.
52:41
SPEAKER_00: Get up.
52:42
SPEAKER_00: Do not give the devil a foothold in your life through sloth and despair.
52:47
SPEAKER_00: And so when you have brothers around you and you're all together ruthlessly accountable to toward the standard set by Christ, when you fall, they will pick you up.
52:59
SPEAKER_00: And that is that is so key.
53:02
SPEAKER_00: You must have a a brotherhood of men who are around you, who are there for you when you fall.
53:13
SPEAKER_01: Legion is rooted in a very strong mission, and you seem to have a lot of uh uh momentum as you continue going forward and clear direction.
53:29
SPEAKER_01: I know we've talked about some uh strategic uh partnerships that you're in the process of forming.
53:34
SPEAKER_01: Where do you see Legion uh 12 in in five years post-graduation?
53:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
53:41
SPEAKER_01: What's life gonna look like for you and for the organization?
53:45
SPEAKER_00: Man plans and the Lord orders the steps.
53:48
SPEAKER_00: You know, so I I we have lots of plans for where we're gonna be in the next five years.
53:52
SPEAKER_00: Um we'll see what pins out and what the Lord leads us into to a different field or domain or location.
53:57
SPEAKER_00: I've got a year left here at Hillsdale.
54:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, and in May of 2027 is when we plan to step into phase four of our national launch and really begin planting chapters across the country at schools all around the nation.
54:10
SPEAKER_00: And we're looking to find those men who are willing and able and eager to step up to bat.
54:18
SPEAKER_00: Um the next five years, we'd like to have 30 chapters fully functioning.
54:23
SPEAKER_00: That means we've got to continue to build out this leadership training program in order to lead one of these programs, it's not an easy burden.
54:31
SPEAKER_00: And so we want to have all of those guys who are leading chapters fly out to our headquarters, which depending on whether or not we place it, you know, after graduation here at Hillsdale or somewhere else like Nashville.
54:43
SPEAKER_00: Um, we would like to create a space for those guys to come out and train and be equipped for about a week and go through leadership scenarios.
54:51
SPEAKER_00: What happens when you know one of your members is going through a personal family crisis?
54:56
SPEAKER_00: What's going on when he's going through a mental health crisis?
54:58
SPEAKER_00: Knowing what you can and can't handle.
55:00
SPEAKER_00: All those things are still what we're working through right now.
55:03
SPEAKER_00: But the next five years, you can expect to see Legion 12 members go forth into the world with excellence and discipline and a hope that the world cannot explain.
55:16
SPEAKER_00: They don't understand because it is a hope that is forged uh with with strong character, is uh upheld by a strong character, and it's forged through suffering.
55:25
SPEAKER_00: And and those are the kinds of men that we're already we're seeing graduating this program, whether it was in my my kind of the the uh fate like 1.0 of this back in high school, and that this program that I started in my garage, which you know was was hugely formative.
55:42
SPEAKER_00: And then um here at Hillsdale with guys who are graduating, stepping into the Army Officer Corps, uh getting full riot at law school, um getting married, you know, young and and starting families and buying homes, that's the kind of effect we pray that we see uh in the next in the next five years.
56:07
SPEAKER_01: God willing, nationwide expansion within the next five years.
56:13
SPEAKER_01: But there's a difference between being in your garage, being in Hillsdale, where you personally are at, and nationwide expansion.
56:21
SPEAKER_01: How do you scale something that is inherently personal like brotherhood?
56:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
56:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so so that comes down to this is this is the question kind of we were asking for such a long time.
56:35
SPEAKER_00: You know, how do we replicate this?
56:37
SPEAKER_00: How do you rep how do you keep this thing going after you're long gone?
56:42
SPEAKER_00: And you know, one of the the ways in which so many organizations drift after the leader is gone is is because they were based upon a discussion model.
56:52
SPEAKER_00: Discussions are great, but they don't build culture.
56:55
SPEAKER_00: When you uh when we drop a program at say William and Mary, and we give them not only the core vision of godly manhood, but also the systems that we put in place where everyday guys are training those habits and activities and and they're in that kind of leadership structure, and there's accountability with leadership blue cards essentially.
57:16
SPEAKER_00: And um, those are the types of things that actually multiply that culture where you plant it wherever, and it will um it will be that real life community that I was talking about, that's men worshiping and and working together.
57:32
SPEAKER_00: And that's what builds the culture.
57:34
SPEAKER_00: It's that action.
57:36
SPEAKER_00: So in tandem with with training up these guys and that that leadership pipeline that we're developing, um, but then also deploying them to college campuses with the curriculum, with our standards, with the accountability, where we all can see how other men are doing in the program.
57:55
SPEAKER_00: That's really, really critical.
57:57
SPEAKER_00: To that infrastructure is super important to um toward multiplication of really you know any business needs a minimum viable product, MVP.
58:06
SPEAKER_00: Um, you want to see can can this last without me?
58:10
SPEAKER_00: Can I step away and have this thing still run?
58:12
SPEAKER_00: And that was the question last year, back in November.
58:15
SPEAKER_00: That was my I was the biggest thing weighing on me.
58:18
SPEAKER_00: And so after I actually stepped down from president of the club and handed it over to some of the other guys that I really trusted who had been in the program for for a couple of years at that point, and I saw just how it continue to grow and thrive and succeed, I was like, okay, this is something that we can deploy at other college campuses.
58:40
SPEAKER_01: How can community leaders, uh business leaders, uh college leaders, you know, uh presidents, uh like presidents of colleges and such, uh government, et cetera, how can the community, um, I don't know if you're familiar with the Seven Mountains, the the leaders of society who are who are aligned with your mission, how can, for instance, how can I come alongside Legion as a resource, uh, you know, me as a business leader, or again, people as uh political leaders or otherwise?
59:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so right now, as we are building this program, as I mentioned before, in one sense is that vocational aspect.
59:22
SPEAKER_00: We want to bring in people who are doing the the heavy lifting, that are that are building the kingdom, that are going out into the uh uh into the fields and and reaping the harvest.
59:34
SPEAKER_00: And so not only do we want to connect, not only do we want to connect our men with those like-minded individuals, we also really would cherish their insight and support and advice on forming these young men and seeing ways in which you know other problems that they see that maybe we don't see that we can help alleviate through our program.
59:55
SPEAKER_00: And so whether that's if you're at a college um or a or you're not in college, and you've got a similar group of guys who are interested in doing the hard work that are getting involved, that want to get involved in a program that is taking serious the mission that is um that is the mission that God has given us uh to take dominion of the earth.
1:00:16
SPEAKER_00: Those seven mountains, again, great, great reference there, you know, the seven mountains of culture.
1:00:22
SPEAKER_00: Um that's critical.
1:00:24
SPEAKER_00: And we need guys in every one of those fields.
1:00:26
SPEAKER_00: And so whether it's you know just just sending us a note, you can sign up for our email list on our website at legionxii.org.
1:00:34
SPEAKER_00: Follow us on social media at LXII underscore official on Instagram.
1:00:40
SPEAKER_00: You can find us on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter.
1:00:43
SPEAKER_00: Um, please do not hesitate to reach out there.
1:00:46
SPEAKER_00: Young men who have similar programs or have a group of guys, have a tribe, I would love to speak to them and give them pointers on how they can begin really developing that and give them some of our curriculum so that they can get their programs up and running so that you know, come may of 27, we're able to uh to work with them and and potentially uh make that an official chapter of organization.
1:01:08
SPEAKER_00: And the last one is just you know, publicity, you know, it's podcasts and media.
1:01:13
SPEAKER_00: We're trying to get the message out and and fundraising.
1:01:16
SPEAKER_00: You know, doing this work, it's not it's not uh as much as I would love for it just to be, you know, we get food and whatever shipped to us.
1:01:24
SPEAKER_00: I do have to make a living.
1:01:25
SPEAKER_00: So does everybody else.
1:01:26
SPEAKER_00: Uh, we do actually have to hire people to do stuff like media, to do stuff like building that that tech infrastructure.
1:01:32
SPEAKER_00: Um, so so right now we're also in a pretty big uh fundraising phase uh so that we can kind of hit those those benchmarks for for the next year, so that we will be set up come you know May to really launch this nationally.
1:01:48
SPEAKER_01: Got it.
1:01:49
SPEAKER_01: Got it, got it.
1:01:50
SPEAKER_01: Well, you just went through contact in uh info, so that's perfect.
1:01:54
SPEAKER_01: Uh I'm gonna go through a quick lightning round.
1:01:56
SPEAKER_01: Let's go.
1:01:57
SPEAKER_01: We'll just run through that real quick.
1:01:58
SPEAKER_01: What is what book most changed how you lead?
1:02:02
SPEAKER_00: Theodore Roosevelt Carry a Big Stick.
1:02:05
SPEAKER_01: That's good.
1:02:06
SPEAKER_01: What song gets you locked in?
1:02:09
SPEAKER_00: Oh, ooh.
1:02:10
SPEAKER_00: Um Lamore Toujour uh on the organ.
1:02:15
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
1:02:16
SPEAKER_01: One piece of advice for a 19-year-old man.
1:02:32
SPEAKER_00: Sit down in your life and write out those three things.
1:02:36
SPEAKER_00: Your dream life, what could be, your nightmare life, what would be the worst case scenario, and be be very be rigorously honest with yourself, because nobody else will be, and no one else will know you like you know yourself.
1:02:52
SPEAKER_00: And write out your current life in those different domains mental, physical, spiritual, relational, behavioral, sexual, locational.
1:03:00
SPEAKER_00: And after you lay those out, you need to find other men in your church that will hold you accountable and mentor you and push you toward those goals.
1:03:14
SPEAKER_00: You're young, you can fail, you can screw up, and you can still get back at it.
1:03:22
SPEAKER_00: The risk is is low right now.
1:03:24
SPEAKER_00: And so I would say, young man, I would tell myself in 19, that the dream you have, if you work really, really hard and surround yourself with the right men, and you dude, and you pray a lot.
1:03:41
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you you gotta think of prayer like you know, before you send in troops to uh, you know, ground deploy, you're sending in the airstrike that just you know levels the place.
1:03:50
SPEAKER_00: That's what that's what prayer is.
1:03:52
SPEAKER_00: Um pray without ceasing, write out those goals, and get to work.
1:04:00
SPEAKER_01: Ticking with the theme, last question, what does reborn mean to you?
1:04:05
SPEAKER_00: Hmm, great question.
1:04:08
SPEAKER_00: Reborn to me means um, well, first is is that spiritual rebirth is committing your life wholly and totally to Christ and with through the Holy Spirit, the power of the Holy Spirit, which raised Christ from the dead.
1:04:24
SPEAKER_00: And you read we read uh first John, you know, you have overcome the world, you have overcome the Antichrist, young man.
1:04:32
SPEAKER_00: It is that realization, it is that spiritual rebirth, and then be like a child, be like a child in your faith.
1:04:41
SPEAKER_00: You're you're young, you know, and we're constantly being reborn and made new in the faith.
1:04:47
SPEAKER_00: Romans 12, do not conform yourself to the world, but transform your mind through the transform yourself through the renewing of your mind that by testing you may discern what is the will of God.
1:04:58
SPEAKER_00: Constantly go back to the scriptures and and through through the hearing of the word, there is faith.
1:05:06
SPEAKER_00: You know, and and that is I think that is the the key, the cornerstone of a man's life, that I'll be the cornerstone of a man's life.
1:05:16
SPEAKER_01: I'll give you please tell me.
1:05:20
SPEAKER_01: Tell me if you have if if you have one message that if people didn't hear a thing throughout this entire podcast, they just hear this one last thing, what would that be?
1:05:32
SPEAKER_00: We need you.
1:05:39
SPEAKER_01: That's good.
1:05:40
SPEAKER_01: This is Luke Waters, everyone podcast.
1:05:43
SPEAKER_01: Luke, thank you so much for being here.