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April Fools' · ABA Business Leaders

• speaker-0: We had a staff that tried to slide into a parent's DM. speaker-1: How about when tech is on the couch sleeping? speaker-0: ⁓ speaker-2: ⁓ speaker-3: I'm doing my rounds in the clinic and I literally see a staff laying on their stomach on the floor on their personal cell phone. speaker-4: We fired probably what, four or five people on the spot for that, but in home. I really honestly, honestly, like I'm I'm jaw open to, I'm like in the clinic. speaker-2: you Welcome to ABA Business Leaders brought to you by 3PiSquared, where we discuss topics on how to create and grow an ethical and sustainable ABA practice. speaker-4: Whether you're starting, scaling, or thinking about selling your business, we're here to share insights, stories, and strategies to help you on the journey. speaker-2: We owned a successful ABA practice for over 10 years. speaker-4: And now we help other ABA business owners do the same without all the chaos. speaker-2: Stick around, you're in the right place. speaker-4: Welcome to ABA Business Leaders podcast brought to you by 3Pi Squared. I'm April. And today is panel day. ABA Business Leaders Owners Panel. A mouthful. ⁓ But such a great group of people that we have here with us today. ⁓ If you've been with us, unless this is your first podcast with us, you have these are like probably good friends. speaker-2: I'm Stephen. speaker-4: by now, right? You feel like, like, you know, all of us here. ⁓ so today we have Chris and Alicia and Jennifer and Mallory joining us and, we thought it would be, or I thought it would be fun to do an April Fool's episode. since, you know, with my name being April, I always have had kind of a fun time. April's fool, April's fool. speaker-2: Was it Was it traumatizing? speaker-4: I don't know. My little brother was pretty traumatizing. But ⁓ now I get to take it upon myself to like traumatize my family. We still have googly eyes stuck to our mirrors that will never come off from a prank I did a few years ago when we first moved here. I put googly eyes on all of our mirrors like try to... And the toilet, like when you raise up the toilet seat so that like eyes are staring at you and... ⁓ speaker-2: toilet seats. speaker-4: The ones off the toilet seat and like, you know how you have the main bathroom, like on your main floor that all the guests or anyone uses, right? Why these ginormous googly eyes and you would look at the toilet seat and they would be staring at you, but they were, they would never come off until we had to buy a whole new toilet seat to replace that. Because after a while it was kind of, it was even a little embarrassing to me because I don't get embarrassed easy, but after a while I was like, okay, that's enough of these googly eyes. I have to explain it every time someone new comes into our house. ⁓ Anyways, so in that note, it's, you know, it's fun. We have hard jobs, right? And we talk about burnout and we talk about all of the, you know, just tough stuff. And so we're still going to be talking about some of those tough stuff today, but I thought we could do it from like bringing a little joy into this and like having a little fun with it because, know, we have to laugh sometimes or, you know, I know we've all talked about like, We have to like, sometimes you just have to laugh or you're just going to be crying. Not that crying is bad, but you know. So we're going to bring a little fun to it today. So like I said, some days of businesses, running a business feels like an April Fool's prank for real. Situations where you think this can't actually be happening. So today we're going to just talk about those moments. so yeah, we'll just, let's just. I don't know. Does any one of you have something off the top of your head where you are like a situation where you're like, this has got to be a joke? speaker-1: One, ⁓ I've just been doing parent training and I was like, why isn't this insurance paying me? So I called and they were like, ⁓ yeah, we voided all of them since November. But on availability, it doesn't say it was voided. It just says it was accepted for processing. Just voided them, but didn't let me know. Just voided. And I just sat there like... I don't even know what to say to you right now. Why did you void them? ⁓ Well, I'm not quite sure. I've actually only been with, well, I'm not going to say an insurance name, but I haven't been with them for very long. So I would have to look into it. And I was like, okay, well, you do that. And if you can let me know, when should I expect your call? So we just rebuild everything, just voided, didn't let me know, no reason. speaker-4: April fools. ⁓ speaker-1: Yeah. like, what? Also, cause like, I this insurance, I've billed this insurance, I mean, for seven years, like no, really no issues. It's actually one of the best ones that I, I mean, that I work with. So then I was like, well, that just seems weird. Like you paid this one, but then after that you just stopped paying. Not sure. speaker-3: I submitted a pre-auth for assessment for an individual and got back denied saying I was out of network and I was like, Huh? I have a signed contract with you. How am I out of network? So still going through that process of getting all of that fixed, you know, two months later, like this poor family is waiting for services because this insurance. had an oopsie and made me out of network even though I'm still in network. Like what? April Fool's, okay. Okay, I'll piggyback. I'm actually going to quote Chris the Monday through Friday when you question your life decisions, but then Saturday and Sunday things are great. So I think April Fool's is Monday through Friday, literally sometimes, but we just got a call from an insurance company. They, for two months, we were supposed to be billing a third party. and they're no longer using the third party. So they came and said, ⁓ I'm the one handling the new authorization. So everything from January 1st through ⁓ basically this week has not been paid. It's been pending because they were going back and forth. And so now I had to put in a completely new auth for them to start. so for two and a half months, we haven't been, because we've been getting the run around. And then finally we got a call from the rep saying, ⁓ well, I'm the one taking over the case. So here's the new off number. Go ahead and rebuild. And I'm like, OK, great. But at least it's resolved. yeah, such good times. speaker-0: We've got a fresh situation this week and it's a long, dark comedy story. Insurance reached out to us ⁓ about a year ago telling us that we were billing the wrong modifier because it made it look like all of our five three was being delivered by BCABA, which we don't have any of. And we looked at their apparently they use this one insurance uses modifiers differently and we missed that and that's on us and we were going back and forth with a provider rep on how to fix it because we were trying to voluntarily rebuild but it was going back like two years. So like we didn't want to get in a situation where we're messing with timely filing and the providers reps just go ahead and just re-bill it. And then we talked to claims and claims is like, well, there's nothing in your file. We have no way to re-bill it. If you don't have anything like an official letter, there's nothing we can do. they're like, yeah, just re-bill it so you don't get an audit. And then we got an audit. So then we responded to the audit. And we've been waiting for like nine months for a response and we just got a response this week. And they looked at our documentation and decided that we had a 98 % error rate. And we didn't just have to pay back the difference, but since there's an error, we have to pay back 100 % of it. Not only that, but they then extrapolated the audit results to the full amount that we billed in two years and asked for that back. speaker-2: Damn. speaker-4: I know what speaker-3: Say it! speaker-2: That's what character yeah, that's characters every speaker-0: They've building under that code for the last two years. They now want their money back. speaker-3: I'm almost positive I know who this is because this happened to us last year. Same thing with the HN. And we fought them because we're like, this definition is... And we fought them and they were like, okay, moving forward, we don't want to see that. It's only this. And so since then we haven't, but ⁓ my gosh, Chris, I am so sorry. speaker-0: And the funny thing is that they're speaker-2: None of this is funny. speaker-1: This is not a good April Fool's joke. speaker-0: So the confusion is about, it says use HN if they have a bachelor's degree. RBT's have bachelor's degree. And apparently HN is the common modifier for RBT for other insurances. I don't know, I'm not the billing expert. We have billers, but in the audit, it doesn't say, it just says bachelor's degree. speaker-3: Yep. ⁓ speaker-0: in the audit results. And I'm like, you gotta be kidding me. speaker-3: Well, and that's what we said to him too. was like, listen, everybody knows that you got that they put in the modifiers in so that you could have differential pay for qualified people, right? That's why that's the industry standard. know, and I was on, I went on every website that that the ABA coding coalition, everything, and they were like, well, and I'm like, no, this is, this is ambiguous at best. And you're trying to find a loophole to not have to go back and do this. And we, mean, it is what it is. Like, thankfully we, but they're like, well, you've been building this room. I said, yeah, because that's what my contract says. So I, gosh, I am so sorry. ⁓ I feel so bad for you. That's awful. speaker-1: a little letter from speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-1: from a lawyer can go a really long way. I mean, like I said, I know I've said it before, it's like I use legal shield and he has sent, well, the one guy that deals with the insurance at my firm that I'm assigned to, he's done two letters for me and both times it was taken care of within a month. speaker-4: And yeah, same with us. Yeah. speaker-1: Yeah, I mean, it really is ridiculous that we have to go to that, to that, right? To be like, okay, well, this is ridiculous. This is beyond me. can't, you know, and also to save yourself some time. Like, I mean, you can keep fighting with them. You can be on the phone with them being on hold, right? Forever. But eventually you're like, I can't just keep doing the same thing over and over and over. But yeah, magically, once they got the letter, they're like, ⁓ okay. Yeah, we'll take another look at it. speaker-0: Yeah, but of course my words went out sick this week. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-3: Of course. That's like a double April Fool's joke. speaker-4: And see, think too, and I want to say this so that Alicia doesn't have a heart attack on air. ⁓ Those of you who ⁓ see this is airing on April 2nd, so go back a few episodes to our audit anxiety podcast where we just had like a real conversation with Alicia after she had gotten a thought that she had gotten an audit in the mail and turns out she didn't. had the podcast and then like I think what a couple of days later she was like ⁓ guess what I just got a real a real speaker-3: See you a week later. speaker-4: Yeah. speaker-3: week to the day later. speaker-4: I ⁓ I know. was like, as soon as I saw that email came come in through you and you know how you can see like the first few words before we even like click on the email, I was like, my heart sunk free. was like, ⁓ I was like, let me get over there and give her a big hug. But so here's the thing too, is this really sucks. It's so is like it plays with your emotions, really like ages you, you wake up with a few less hairs or a few more grayer hairs. at me. But the thing is, it's really important to know for the here's a piece of hope, right? Is that most of the time, most, is it okay to say most of the time, a lot of the times, you're not going to owe back a penny, right? It's just speaker-2: I mean, it depends on how awful of a you're doing, right? Like so the- speaker-4: If you're doing most things right, you can show where... Like Chris has this letter. You can show all these loopholes. You can say, here's what I was told, this is what we're doing. And you really have a great documentation system and paperwork, and you have people, you know what you're doing as much as you can know what you're doing. Before we even press record, we're all talking about we're all in different states and like, okay, this really thing that happened this we're thinking all of a sudden, this person tells me this, who do I trust? As long as you're doing your due diligence on your end. And if you need to know more about what to do, reach out to us, we can help guide you. But a lot of the times if you are doing things right, like don't, I just want to be like, you don't have to all of a sudden just send over that money and pay them there. Please don't, please don't ever do that. But still, even if we had so many audits that we never had to anything. We never paid a penny to the, we paid pennies to our attorneys, but we didn't have to pay anything to the insurance companies. However, the amount of time and stress that it took away from us being able to do what we need to do to pour into our clients and our staff and all the things, that really stunk. But the little glimmer of hope here is that Most of the time, it's not as scary as it seems. It's just a lot of time consuming and stress. speaker-2: this situation. can I extrapolate, okay, I didn't use my insurance for the last 10 months. I extrapolate that you can pay me back all of that money, right? Like, else in the world can you extrapolate? Like, come on, like, you can take that extrapolation and boom, you know, like it's just so frustrating, right? Like, where else in the world can you do that? It's not fair. So, yeah, yeah, that sucks. yeah, I speaker-0: logic. speaker-2: Yeah, of course, yeah. speaker-3: Well, and I don't know who said it. don't know, Steven, if you said it or I've read it somewhere. But sometimes I think this is just a game to see how much they back. Yeah. How can they scare somebody enough to to to go, ⁓ I must be doing something wrong. Here you go. You know, and it's like. speaker-2: Yeah, some genius at the insurance company said, Hey, we can get a pretty good amount of money back if we just send out this letter to a certain number of people on average, 2 % of people will just pay it without any question. know, I assume that's what they do. Right. So, you know, just like you said, Mallory, like a, ⁓ kindly worded letter from, ⁓ somebody with the right title on the end of their name seems to really shut them up. And so like, that's where I just stopped. I didn't care. I didn't care if they said we owe 25 cents. They got a letter from our attorney. was just, I don't care anymore. speaker-4: Well, we had a standing, we had a form letter. I mean, of course, check with the attorney that you're working with and get that permission and agreement to do that. But at one point, we were having, what do call it, rapid fire there for a period of time. And so our attorney's like, here, just every time you just send this, just change the name, send it in, send it in, send it in. And so we did. And sometimes we never even heard back from them. We never even heard Like we never even got receipt of like, you know, receiving the letter that we gave them. It was just like, okay, well, I guess we're not, I guess you're good. speaker-2: Yeah, there was one they were they were going on and like I don't want to get into too much in politics. Yeah, but I was watching one press conference where the federal government came in and all the the super smart people up there. They were saying, ⁓ there's so much fraud being ⁓ discovered in ⁓ Minnesota. We were we found one ⁓ practitioner. They had like 200 hours a week under their name and they're like they were working all the time and I'm like dude if this is ABA you have no idea what you're talking about, right? Just let's let's because Everything is built under the clinician. So you're you're making claims that are Absolutely false to make it look like people are doing the wrong thing when this is how the system is set up So you need to just shut your mouth And and but that's that's the way it goes, right? So like, of course, there are going to be more hours than you can work at it because everything gets built under the BCBA. So it's just I don't know. It's it's really frustrating to have to deal with insurance. at the same time, what else are you going to do? speaker-0: Another thing with insurance logic, ⁓ this is actually the second major audit that is not resolved for us at the moment. ⁓ We have another one with a different insurance and we sent all the documentation in and they sent us back, nothing wrong with our documentation, just we're not allowed to build a place of service. ⁓ And there's a mandate for that place of service in our state and it's an in-state insurance. our lawyer sent a very strongly worded letter to them. And ⁓ we have 30 days to get back to them, but they can just leave us hanging for like six months. speaker-2: Yes. speaker-1: They don't care. They don't care. They're like, here, give us our money. speaker-3: It's a numbers game. They have too many actuaries working in there saying well you have an odd of you know the probability of this this and this so it's like getting caught for it's like when they get caught for for them doing stuff this the The um consequence is less than the payout of doing it to begin with. Yep So they're making 23 on but the consequence is only a 10 payout They've still made 13 of passive income for doing whatever they've done You know, so, but if we did that, ⁓ my gosh, I'm going to jail. My company's getting shut down and I'm this horrible person who's done nothing but fraud, fraud, fraud. Yes. You know, so it's, yeah, it's the game you have to play. speaker-2: Yes, it's the practitioners that are the problem. It's not the insurance company. just as long as you're aware of that, we're all good. Yeah. speaker-4: paper fools. speaker-3: April Fool's speaker-2: Everybody has to say one positive thing about insurance or we're all getting audits. speaker-3: Okay, here you go. Okay, I do have a positive. When you talk to the right ref, they do help you. It's when you can get the right person, you can get somewhere. And they genuinely know that I think most of the people who work in insurance genuinely know we're not all out there trying to do anything wrong. And so when you get to the right person, they are very helpful. That's something I have noticed. speaker-1: One, two, speaker-4: There are good people working in the insurance companies. speaker-3: There are good, there are, you know, they need a job. speaker-1: Steven doesn't look convinced. He's smiling. speaker-3: I will say that I haven't had a whole lot. I haven't had whole lot of hiccups. know I said a couple of things, like I've been smooth sailing for the most part here ⁓ with pay and stuff, like reimbursement and like very low level denials ⁓ when they are denied. It's like, ⁓ yeah, whoops, okay, let me fix that thing. So I guess like, You know, as long as you have systems and checks in place, like it can be a smooth process. ⁓ But yeah, I better not on somewhat because I don't need anything. speaker-2: I love to hate on them, but like it really has opened access to people that would never have received services, right? And so I think it's a great benefit, but it is just, it's really hard. And I also assume that who wants to do this stuff, right? Like I assume that it's really difficult job for them to call somebody up and say, you know, give us all that money, that individual, maybe not the company as well. speaker-4: I have a friend who is one of these people. ⁓ really? Yeah, she's no longer, but she was. Yeah, when I had, was taking the coaching courses, right? The parent coaching courses and, and, she, ⁓ we were placed in a group together and, I told her what I, told everyone what I did. And then she was like, ⁓ I work from home. And then it was like, later on, she like gave me a private message and she said, by the way, I'm not going to say which club she worked for a major. speaker-2: That has to be a hard speaker-4: insurance company and she actually has had ABA stuff come across her desk before. And she was like, I just I didn't know how to tell you. So I think they know too, right? Like it's you know, it wasn't really she ended most of her days crying. And she left because she couldn't handle it because she was on the phone with really angry people all day long. speaker-2: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. speaker-3: No, I agree with you, Steven. It's opened up services for people who would have not been able to. that's the... they're a necessary evil. And really, at the end of the day, you just have to remember it's a game. They're there to protect their bottom line. Regardless of how they want to look, they are there to protect their bottom line. And our job is to protect our kids and make sure that they're getting the services that they deserve. and are entitled to and you just got to come along and play the game and once you play the game then it is more smooth sailing. speaker-2: And I mean, there is absolutely fraud going on. Like I am not claiming in any way that, it's all everybody's doing great. There is absolutely fraud going on. so there's a reason why they do this. Yeah. think Casp just sent out like a message on the New York Times article on how ABA is all awful and terrible. yeah, so like, you know, there are a few people out there and it's not ABA related, right? There was a huge issue with respite care where there was a bunch of fraud being committed. So it's just, there are people that, I mean, they just take advantage of the system, right? They see a loophole and they're like, yeah, I'm going to take it. know, that's, you know, exactly why I say an ethic is not going to like a, a board ethic is not going to help you, right? It's your morality and your compass that you need to follow. speaker-1: is what I told Alicia because Alicia was like, I don't know, are they going to like say that I'm doing fraud? And I was like, well, are you doing fraud? Well, no. Okay, then you don't have to worry about it. Right? And I know that that's hard because like, it really is ingrained in all of us. Right? Like, you know, the boards coming after us and the insurances are coming after us and it's just not, it's just really not that. And I don't know how do we change that? Like, how do we, I mean, I guess more conversations like these, Like, how do we change that? ⁓ I know like the newbies, right? It just is like, you know, shoved down your throat, like you have to be careful, the board's going to come after you. And it's just not the case. It's just not even like at a state level, right? Like, I mean, I've had ⁓ disgruntled employees, you know, try to, you know, what do they call it? Like they end up opening an investigation. I don't even know that the investigation is going on most of the time, right? They haven't even told me. And then I get this random letter saying like, there wasn't nothing found. I was like, ⁓ I didn't even know you guys were investigating me, But the reality is like, I'm not doing anything wrong, right? Like I have my own guidelines and, you know, moral, like I make good decisions and if I don't, if I make a mistake, you know, I fess up, but you know, like it is what it is. How do we, yeah, how do we get past that? It's just more conversations, I guess, like we just said, so. speaker-3: More conversations and learning. You're going through your first audit, it's scary, you've made it to the other side. Okay, so now what do we do next? Okay, the next audit that comes down, I'm gonna make sure that I'm gonna go back through my systems and ensure that all my notes are done or I'm gonna crack down in areas where it's like, look, this is too important to not crack down in. Like I can be lenient here, but here I can't. And it's always a learning experience. It's a big headache and incredibly stressful, but it's at the end of the day, like you said, we're all doing it for the right reasons. we're you fall so far on the right side of the line that it's like, OK, try to try to show me, teach me what did I do that I need to change? I think part of it, too, is like ⁓ figuring out a way to help streamline the information from different insurance companies. ⁓ to the providers because all the different insurance companies have different contracts and these contracts have different information in them and it's really hard. You hear, go through your contract, look at your contract, keep an eye on the newsletters. Well, how is this company supposed to keep up with all that? Who's out there helping? Who can help? decipher through that, right? I think that is also a piece that is ⁓ difficult and may ⁓ be a weak link for the smaller companies and make them a little bit more vulnerable. And at the end of the day, as I kind of like reflect on that, I think like that is. probably the root of where a lot of my anxiety is coming from. Who like, yeah, contracts. I signed, I read them. Do I remember them? No. Like, do I have the resource? Of course. But like, do I reference them a lot? No. Like who does, right? And so, speaker-2: No. Yeah, it's like the iTunes agreement, right? Like, I don't know what that said. speaker-1: Why HIGS? speaker-3: You know the rates that you're signing up for, you know what services you can provide in this contract, you know the general understanding. But when it comes down to it, if they come for an audit, that is something that ⁓ in my state specific training, they ⁓ focus on a lot too. And yeah, that's good and great, but who can help me with that? speaker-4: you speaker-2: Listen to some speaker-3: You know, every insurance company is different. And so how can like you want to have standardized way of what you're doing documents and that's what we have. But that doesn't safeguard you from these other contracts that may have these weird whatever. I don't think I have any of those, but I don't know. speaker-4: Well, that's where I'm going to say this lightly, but that's where if we're, if we could collaborate with other BCBA owners in our area, say this knowing that it's not just as easy as that. I know there's a lot of barriers to that as well, because you also don't want to just take what the ABA agency down. You don't want to take their word either. Like the agency down the streets, like, yeah, we've been doing this a couple of years and this is how we interpret what the, you know, But still like it's so specific every little, every state. then sometimes within a state, there's a certain region that's different or a certain plan. Like even if you're all like, I don't know, I'm just going to throw something out, blue cross blue shield. Then there's like all these little subsidiaries or United healthcare, you know, funded or not. Like there are, there are these very specific little pieces of information that, that you do. speaker-2: self-funded or speaker-4: that you have to be aware of and keep track of and then they change and then I remember, okay, so when we were, I don't even know if you know this. April Fools! We're not going to. But no, I, okay, so, so I'm picturing myself back in our first clinic, right? And sitting in my desk and thinking I have pretty good, I think we're doing pretty good here. We're starting to get a hang of this. speaker-2: Am I speaker-4: get, I don't even remember what insurance was a blue cross or anthem. Anyways, I would get these like CDs from time to time in the mail. Yes. Right. And I was like, ⁓ okay. Well, I just filed it away in my drawer. I was like, okay. And then I like accrued like multiple of those. And then we were moving out of that clinic, moving into our smaller clinic. And this was a list was like after Steven had kind of pulled out of our business more and more and he was starting three pi squared. And, and I was like, huh, I wonder. And this was like maybe a couple of years later. So I had learned a little bit more by then and I get the stack of CDs out of the drawer and I'm like, these are like updates on the contract. These are things that I shouldn't have. These are the provider manuals. Like, I didn't know. speaker-2: Spider-Man like BMG you know you could get 10 free CDs when you buy one speaker-4: I was like, I, they, they, ⁓ you know, like Gabby at the time was doing her insurance. She had passed it on me. Obviously she didn't know what they were either. Right. Right. I don't even think my computer had a CD like drive in it. speaker-1: There is something to be said about paper. Yes, you might have a lot of file cabinets, but if a paper contract comes to you, right, you're kind of like, oh, maybe I should, you know, but like some of my contracts came in paper and some of them were emailed to me. Right. And so I'm like, well, when I have to go look back, I'm like, I don't. Okay. I'll have to go to the folder in my email, you know, and make sure that it's there. And then, you know, speaker-4: there was updates that happened with one of the major major insurances that we worked with and we did get an audit and they're like, ⁓ well this was updated as of blah blah blah. And I was like, ⁓ I had no idea there were updates. And they're like, ⁓ they're, they're on our website. So they don't always notify you there's updates. You have to go searching for them. then even when knowing that there was an update and knowing what the update was going back into their own, website, like through the provider portal or whatever it was. I never found the update. Like I had to finally, they like sent a link to us to show and I was like, where, where is it? So, so that's why I say I'm like, ⁓ well, wouldn't it be kumbaya and beautiful and wonderful if we could just pull together and help each other out to learn these things for our specific region or our specific payer or whatever. Right. ⁓ but, and, and that, I still think that could be helpful, but we still have to have a level of like, who do you trust? speaker-2: Yeah, I mean, I think like CASP, ACQ are doing amazing. And same with abacodes.org, think is the website. those are places that I would reach out to if you have any questions, if a billers or funders being a little weird, like that's the first place I contact is abacodes.org. What's going on? Can you help me? What do you suggest? Right. And then obviously you should have an attorney, right? You just, you have to have an attorney. speaker-4: They're really doing it. But too, do you think that this would be ⁓ as you're growing, like for the Alicia's out there, ⁓ is this one of the things where I don't even know that you could necessarily delegate this piece of it because it's so sensitive and so important. This might be something as sucky as it is that you have to hold on to your job as part of your responsibility for the life of your company. But what other things can you start to delegate to other staff or bringing on an assistant or bringing on an admin or whatever it looks like? speaker-2: But at the same time, because we've had ⁓ at least one podcast with Kim Mack Rosenberg, and she has said this multiple times when I have talked to her, just because they say you did it wrong doesn't mean it's wrong. Right. And so just because you don't have the perfect narrative doesn't mean the session didn't happen. And so they don't automatically get their money back because they say so. Right. And so like, that's why. speaker-4: That's true. That's a good grant. Like, let's just keep going back to that. Right? Like you just keep grounding us back to that. speaker-2: Yes. Cause like I had, we had an insurance company that, and I don't know if we're moving past this, is this just bitch on insurance? mean, that's fine. But like we had an insurance company. They said we did everything wrong and then we get to the audit meeting and they were holding our, I don't even remember what year it was anymore, but let's just use this, these years for an example. They were holding our 2013 note to a 2016 standard. And it's like, you can't do that. You're not allowed to do that. I don't have a time machine, right? Like I can't go back in time and correct a note, make it different when you have a new standard. And so that was, but that's what they would do. speaker-3: I would say though, as a business owner, I feel like it's my job to ensure that I do stay on top of those contracts. I mean, I would love to delegate it, but at the end of the day, I should know those contracts as well as anybody else, if not better. And what if the person ends up leaving? Why would I... I just, to me, and you're right, they'll say they have updates, but then I'm like, well, I haven't gotten a newsletter about it. And then I... find it and I was like, oh, well, it would have been nice to know that. it's because this landscape is always ever changing. It's just to me, for me personally, it makes sense to stay on top of it because I don't trust that this is it's like some the right now what I'm seeing is now they're going to go to weekly recommendations. You can only bill for what you say for the week on some of these. OK, that's not going to last. And I'll tell you why, because they're going to get so much pushback from parents from organizations, that is not realistic. speaker-4: Well, there's already ones that have been doing it for years. speaker-3: Yeah, well, they want this is the first time I've had to deal with it on a weekly basis. Usually it's a monthly, which monthly is more palatable. speaker-4: Yeah, in Northern Virginia, had a lot. I'm assuming it was like military and stuff like that. a lot that were. speaker-2: If you, if you didn't use it in that week, you lost it. That was, that was. speaker-4: So if you are sick, if the RBT was sick, if the client was sick, if someone was on vacation, you just lost that speaker-2: So sad too bad. speaker-3: But then the other thing I was reading about is now it's like it's based on when the authorization goes into effect, not a business week. So if your authorization goes in on a Tuesday, it's a Tuesday to a Tuesday. That's what I mean. I, exactly. And I'm like, are you sure about that? Because again, there's differing opinions. Some people will say, no, it's this. Some people say this really at the end of the day, you need to call the provider rep and find out and get it in writing. Right. speaker-4: ⁓ my gosh. Bro, fools, right? speaker-2: Yes, get it in right in. speaker-4: Keep that, keep it, keep multiple forms in various places so that you have those backups. Cause those are probably some of most important backups you could have. speaker-3: It's like the pre-off that they're going, ⁓ no more pre-offs are required. And now they're backtracking. Nope. Now we need pre-offs for assessment codes. But I made them get it in writing every single time. No pre-off. Because I was like, no, I don't trust this. And sure enough, now we're going back to, now this requires an authorization. Or it's hit or miss. Some plans require one, some don't. And it's all under the same insurance umbrella. So it's like everything in writing. I always send myself in for pre-off. for everything. I don't care. Sure. Tell me it's not needed. Fine. for that answer of it's not needed. Okay. speaker-4: That's very, see, you're good, Alicia. You're good. You're doing all the things. You're doing all the things. speaker-3: We all try right, but there's also only so many hours in a day and there's also so only so much bandwidth and knowledge that each one of us have so like I think that's why a community like this is important ⁓ to have so we can all lean on each other and learn and grow from each other but also like recognizing that like it's okay to not know everything but ⁓ also balancing that with what is absolute must know so that my business doesn't, for any of our businesses, doesn't go down the toilet, right? We don't want that because we're all doing really good work for the kids that we serve and for the families that we engage in. I'm not in the clinical at all. I only run the business. So for me to make that statement is much different than for someone who's running the clinical and running a business. So that's why for me, That's why I said that. But right. I was in the clinical side. That would be it would be one of those harder things like do I manage clinical, do I manage business? So that's the role that I have assumed because my clinical director, he is all the clinical so that he doesn't have to worry about business and I don't have to worry about clinic. speaker-2: Yeah. And then like as a business owner, like you have a limited amount of time, right? And you also have family and like a life outside of your business. You have to pick and choose. Like you can't do everything, right? We were talking to ⁓ Alex, what's his last name? do mergers and acquisitions, right? And like his big thing was like, you have to work yourself out of a job if you want this to be a viable sale. speaker-4: V? He's like... speaker-2: Right? So like you eventually have to decide, do I want this to be something that I can sell or get acquired and this is my retirement plan or am I just building something that is mine and will always be mine? Cause those are two different things until I'm done with it. Yes. So yeah, so like some of these things you're, eventually going to have to delegate and yeah, it's really hard to do it. It's, It's hard to make those choices. speaker-0: Say something nice about insurance. speaker-4: You're in the thick of it right now. You know, you can just ride on us. speaker-1: Let me say one positive thing before we move on because when we were talking about authorizations very early on, probably in the first like month or two when I was getting authorization of my, you know, early on in my agency and I called the insurance because I was like, what do mean you don't need an authorization? This is the positive part. The guy said, well, you don't need authorization because we are not going to tell you how to do your job. And I was like, Nobody else has ever said that. Right? Nobody else. And that's really only like one of the only insurances that I've had that experience with. But I was like, he understood the assignment. He 100 % understood like, why, why would we tell you how to do your job? Like, I mean, of course they can audit, right? But like, are we going to tell you how to do your job? I mean, unless it's a, you know, another VCBA, where that we're having peer review calls with that truly understand, right? Like what I'm doing on the clinical side. So yeah, there's my positive Chris. That's your positive. speaker-0: We have a lot of clients that have ⁓ no authorization required and I love it and I hate it because in a way we kind of hold them to a higher standard because if we have a pre-off client and we have a psychological evaluation that we're not sure about, we'll push it through for an authorization. And if they say yes, great. But if we've got a no authorization required client, we're not sure if that ⁓ eval like really says enough in it. And if it's going to pass an audit, ⁓ we have them go get a new eval. Yeah. love it and I hate it. speaker-3: with you on that because I'm always scared like, oh, no pre-auth. it's like, oh, but I really don't want to take them to think we're taking advantage of this. So it's like, we still try to follow every six months for sending in for an authorization, even if we don't need it, just so that there's a paper trail that, hey, we're not trying to over say that this child needs 40 hours when they only need 25. So yeah, I'm with you on that. It's like a love hate relationship with them because you're just never sure if it's going to come back and bite you later. speaker-2: Look how they've modified their behavior. speaker-3: You the master behaviorist. He was just waiting, waiting for the moment. He was. speaker-1: Thank It was the whole time. speaker-2: I'm done. I'm leaving now. speaker-3: I'm speaker-2: Leave on a good note. ⁓ speaker-3: What's next, April? What's next? What's another good April Fool's joke? So I have one. The first thing that popped in my head as an April Fool's joke, has to deal with staff. ⁓ I literally I was like, you've got to be joking me. So I'll kind of set the scene like I have very, ⁓ very like. clear-cut rules and expectations. The staff have been informed and trained on them, signed off that they understand all of these things, right? And one of the expectations is not using your personal cell phone during session. Okay, that's pretty simple, I would think. ⁓ And on top of this, I have tablets that are available for staff to... used to take data, right? So, ⁓ I'm doing my rounds in the clinic and I literally see the staff laying on their stomach on the floor on their personal cell phone and their kid is doing their kid thing. What is happening right now? Of course, like I speaker-1: Yeah speaker-3: immediately redirected their attention and corrected that behavior. speaker-4: we fired probably what four or five people on the spot for that. ⁓ But in home, really honestly, honestly, like I'm like, I'm jaw open to, I'm like in the clinic. Cause I, my, my little, in my mind, I was like, well, you know, this is an in-home issue. If, we, if this would have been clinic, we wouldn't have had this issue. And the only reason we caught this issue is because the families had cameras. So, but. The staff knew that there was a camera. And we got sent the video of the tech in the recliner on her cell phone. And you could see the swiping. speaker-2: kid just running around just like having a good time speaker-4: just running and having a good old time, not having to engage. And then it was really clear why tech B on the case was having really, really severe behaviors with this kiddo. you get one lady comes out and I just get to do my thing and my happy place and not be challenged a bit. And then the other person comes in and expects me to do all this hard work. You know? Yeah, yeah. Yep. April Fool's. Like, what? Yeah. ⁓ no, there's no way. There's no way. ⁓ speaker-1: I I have a better one than that. ⁓ I don't know. ⁓ How about when yeah, a tech is on the couch sleeping. speaker-4: ⁓ okay. Yeah, that means that means being on the phone speaker-1: I mean, the parent called me and is like, he's sleeping on the couch and I was like... speaker-3: What? What? speaker-1: Like how embarrassing like so embarrassing for me, right? And thank goodness the parents had you know, cuz like I think some parents are so gracious and they're like, ⁓ he must have just been tired or like, you know, maybe didn't say, you know, wouldn't have said anything to me like that first time. I mean, there's some wild things that go on in home, right? That like we've heard about. But thank goodness that family was able to like tell me, you know, felt comfortable and like right away to say like he's sleeping on the couch, you know, and It was everything in me not to get in my car and drive over there. I wanted to be like, let him sleep. Let him wake up to me. I really wanted to drive over there, but I, you know, I couldn't, was with another. speaker-3: We speaker-4: Great restraint there, Mallory. Great restraint. Yeah. speaker-1: It was. I was like, what in the world? What in the world? know, but and I will say like, there was no I mean, he didn't defend himself. He didn't say, you know, he didn't like, but I was like, I mean, you're done. There's, you know, there's nothing else I can say here. Yeah, so I don't know. I think that might be worse than the cell phone. speaker-2: That's not in our handbook, immediate termination, sleeping on the job, speaker-4: add that. speaker-3: I had a staff member when we went for an in-home, we had at the time we were using a time clock on an app and it had a geo fence. And I didn't know this, until he ended up, I think we termed him, I can't remember, it's been a while, but they have 15 minutes to tear down and do their notes and everything. Well, he was leaving 15 minutes early and sitting in his car. And so he was sitting on the clock for 15 minutes. and being paid for it because he knew about the geofence. And so he didn't, he didn't leave. He would sit in his car until he was done, until the 15 minutes. So he was literally, and so we were, was billing for it, right? Like, because I didn't know that he was stealing time because the parents never told me because they didn't want to get him in trouble. And I was like, and then, then they also, what, what brought it to a head was they said he was stealing cause we were He was teaching money or something, or I don't remember what it was, but he was stealing the money that was for the kids for teaching. And then that's when it came to a head, the money keeps missing. We can't find the quarters and all this stuff. And I'm like, okay. And then it comes then come to find out. And he's leaving 15 minutes early than his shift and sitting in his car. And I was like, so Alicia, when you're talking about like audits, I'm sitting there freaking out because I'm thinking in my head, ⁓ my goodness. This is, I mean, this was like years ago, like so far. speaker-4: insurance this was like way out you can't come back for speaker-3: Yeah, like we weren't even in network with this. That's a good thing. But no, but mean, like that, that's where you start questioning that. That's something that you go, ⁓ my goodness, I need to go back. And we did on some of it, like the ones that knew for a fact, we did go back and say, Hey, I need you to correct this claim. that was, I think the hard thing with, within home, you know, they don't want to get the therapist in trouble or, you know, or they try to make speaker-4: This was like two. speaker-2: channel. speaker-4: They really do. And that's where I look at what the board has done about dual relationships and all of the stuff on the ethical pieces. It really truly is there for a reason. And sometimes we joke about, ⁓ can you offer, can you take a bottle of water? Do you have to bring your own toilet paper? We get really nitpicky in some of the conversations I've seen. But ultimately, is to try to... to keep everyone safe because it is like you're in people's homes for many hours a week and it's just human nature. You're going to get comfortable. and, know, and in there, we had situations right where it wasn't brought to our attention. And this was years ago before a lot of fancy technology that we have now, but it wasn't brought to our attention that, you know, the techs were calling, calling out directly to the, and this was also before we, changed our policies to make sure that schedules only went through the scheduling director, right? The parents and the stat, like the tech and the parents could not, or even BCBAs could not do their own schedule because there was a lot of like finagling going around until someone got irritated and then they brought all of that back up, right? It was like, ⁓ it's, you know. it's fine if you need to cancel, it's fine. Yeah, I get it. It's fine. It's fine until it wasn't fine anymore. And then they would bring to our attention that someone who has been canceling numerous times or, well we've been letting them make it up on Saturdays, even though they were still saying they were doing it on Thursdays, right? All kinds of stuff like that happens. And so, so that, that is why we have policies, but not just having policies, but like following up on these things. speaker-2: But they speaker-4: Things are still going to happen. In fact, these things that happen that are like, are you got to be kidding me? Are these like, are you April fooling me right now? ⁓ Are the things that sometimes then bring about these policies and change within the organization? well, I'm not that this has never happened again on my watch. ⁓ gosh, Chris. speaker-3: Hahaha! speaker-0: I don't even know how to say this, but ⁓ we had a staff that tried to slide into a parent's DM. speaker-4: ⁓ yeah, yeah, mm-hmm. speaker-0: That was an immediate termination and report to the board. speaker-3: It's Monday through Friday, questioning my life decisions at the moment, right now, totally. speaker-4: On a kind of a serious note for just a minute. I mean, this is where like we have to really be careful. This is like the abuse that's how that happens in our field, right? That that Sometimes we think ⁓ that would never happen to us, right? And it is a little sobering because it's like it could it really could because there it's just the nature of the job speaker-2: Yeah, I mean the one that still haunts my dream, right? Like seriously is the one I can't remember what state it was in but he like he said This is why I got this job so I could do this because I knew I would be alone in homes with little kids So I could do what I wanted to do with them. Like it's like What in the world? speaker-4: I mean, that's what we started shifting towards the end before we closed. mean, we were shifting towards like, you have to do therapy in open spaces. We took out the therapy in the basement with the door shut. Like we didn't allow that anymore. A couple of situations we did, they had cameras and stuff like that. But like it really started to get us thinking about things in a different light as far as like ⁓ one of our staff being left alone. with a learner in an isolated space, even if the parent was home, you know, if they were in another, because then we also had the thing where, you know, I mean, it's hard to be a parent. And it's even harder to be a parent when you have a child with special needs, with high needs, right, kids who don't sleep. And so, you know, we would have parents that would use this their time to take a nap even, right? like, what like they're not really being you know, supervised, right? And so, and it was also just as much to protect our staff too. So that, you know, if you had a parent who had a suspicion or a concern or a worry or active imagination or whatever, then, and our staff was truly innocent, right? That that would also protect our staff. So we really got to where we were really putting a lot of things in place with those in-home sessions to try to keep everyone safe the best that we could. speaker-1: My husband has said, because he's a highway patrolman, and he's like, look, they have body cams, right? They record everything. Everything is recorded. Yeah, he's like, why are sessions not being recorded? Like, that's ridiculous. You know, these are like vulnerable, like this is a vulnerable population, right? The people he, you know, comes in contact with, it's a whole different, you know, situation. And so like, why wouldn't, why wouldn't you record? speaker-4: We had talked about that at one time. Some agencies do have body cams. One of the drawbacks is it's very expensive to do that HIPAA-compliantly. It's super expensive, especially for small businesses. It's like almost speaker-2: How long do you store it? When do you store it? speaker-4: But yes, like simple simple answer would that would be that would be an like a ⁓ quote for those who can't see me easy fix, right? ⁓ But doing it doing that the right way also has a lot of barriers. But yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. speaker-3: I think at the end of the day, you think that you're going to be able to be prepared for every scenario and you're just not. again, it's one of those, I don't regret the lessons I've learned. I've regretted the way I've had to learn them sometimes. yeah, and so it's like the crazy is what teaches you the most. speaker-2: Yeah, that's... speaker-4: forgot where I'm putting it. speaker-3: where you're like, can't, I just can't even believe that I'm even having to have this conversation. I just can't even believe the audacity of this. Well, there's a new policy, you know. speaker-4: So we're talking about merch and we're talking about phrases we can put on t-shirts. There's one. speaker-3: I mean, that's what I always say, especially like my young leadership team. I'm like, this is where you're going to learn the most. If things are smooth sailing, you're not going to learn because you're never being challenged and you never have to think outside of what this could be. It's these hard, these really hard lessons that you, it prepares you in two ways. It prepares you not to freak out again because you're going to get ahead of it. And then you're like, okay, now this is something I need to consider. or I need to beef up my training somewhere, or this policy was not very clear, you know, it needs to be more clarified. But at the end of the day, you can't write a policy for everything and you can't clarify, because what you say to one person that they're gonna hear it a different way than you say it to another person, and they're hearing the exact same verbiage. But that's why I always tell my like, crazies are gonna teach you the most. You just gotta hold on and see what you can get out of it and how do you make it better to not. speaker-2: Yep. speaker-3: know, if it happens again, you know how to react. You're not reactive, you're proactive and but yeah. ⁓ speaker-1: Sure, speaker-0: has a constantly running list of additions. speaker-3: Yep. And then you have to be on top of the laws on that, by the way, because you're doing like, ⁓ now I got to make sure that that's even legal to put in there. Can I even say that? speaker-4: Always. speaker-1: That's hilarious. Yeah, so the listeners then like learn from our crazy. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I mean, that's why we're all here. It's not fun. I'm not going to say it like I'm not going to lie. It's not fun saying some of the things that have happened, right? That, like Jennifer said that I've had to learn from. mean, I mean, somewhat, right? Some of it is embarrassing because I know some people probably, you know, listen and they're like, how did you let that happen? Well, I didn't let anything happen. I'm only one person. I can't be at every single session. every single moment of every single day. I mean, I wish I could, but it's just not, you know, just not possible even in a clinic, right? Like even in a clinic when everybody is under one roof, you still can't be there unless I guess you could do all sessions in one, one huge giant room. But look, I mean, speaker-4: We do know of a company who's doing that and is not working for them either because that's just so many people in one room. speaker-1: The distractions, right? Yeah. Yeah. So hard. ⁓ speaker-3: I know, I'm more and more understanding that scene. can't remember what the movie was where it's like, but did you die? That resonates with me so much now. I'm like, but did you die? When some of these things come up, because after a while you just sort of almost become immune to it. you're just like, nothing starts to surprise you when you've been doing it for a while. You're like, okay, well, so what are we going to do? How are we going to make it better? And by the way, did you die? know, so, cause you have to laugh. mean, seriously, sometimes you just, you just got to go home and laugh. Otherwise you're just like, I can't even believe I'm dealing with this right now. speaker-4: certainly have. speaker-2: I assume though, like everybody that's telling these stories, like all of you telling these stories at that time, this was like a huge deal, right? Like this was like end of the world, what the f is going on, right? And so like now, yeah, after many ⁓ sessions of therapy and we can now laugh at the, but yeah, I mean. speaker-4: I just going to say like it has certainly shaped how we parent our child. 100%. We're going to be doing a mom panel and several mom episodes ⁓ on our Mother's Day in May. And this is a topic I'll be bringing up there too, but like, you know what lessons, like being an entrepreneur, being a business owner, having staff and the decisions that are made within your, you know, like it is like, okay. I'm gonna, I'm gonna do all I can to teach my child this particular lesson so that hopefully one day when they have a job, won't do this. speaker-2: They won't bring their ⁓ parent to an interview? like, we had ⁓ one employee that ⁓ their parent dropped off the equipment. He was a Malays. speaker-4: He was like a nearing 30 year old man and the mommy dropped off his session notes or something. And then, oh, he's experiencing malaise. He could not bring this in. And we're like, do you know that this is like illegal for you to have? I don't know if it's illegal, like this is information that should not be in your, you know. speaker-2: computer every session notes and things like this. speaker-4: Yeah, and then we had one person who like, yeah, like the parent was at the interview, not in the interview, but sitting out in the waiting room of the interview. speaker-2: And then I had one parent call me up after an interview asking to negotiate the wages. I'm like, if this person would like to discuss that with me, I'm totally open to it. But I am not discussing this with you, right? It's like, wow. speaker-4: I about that how many let's call them helicopter parents of individuals and speaker-2: Don't do that, right? speaker-4: No! speaker-3: You know speaker-1: I never had any of those. speaker-4: I mean, our child, our just turned 11 year old, I'm going to brag for just a second. He said from the time he was five, his like teachers and adults in his life were like, wow, he's like amazing at advocating for himself and his needs and communicating to, and I was like, you better bet he is. speaker-3: April my daughter can almost verbatim Tell you what I'm gonna say when I do phone interviews. Yeah, she's like mom I should just do it for you because I know what you're gonna say. You're like, hi, this is Jennifer Helton He just like says the whole thing and then she had to send she sent an email to her teacher last week because she didn't think something he did was fair so she wrote it and she came and had us edit it for her and she Proofed it and she did all this and I'm like if you're not a CEO in the making. I don't know speaker-4: 100%. speaker-3: I don't know what speaker-2: ⁓ Yeah, we've had many people call our son Alex P Keaton, right? ⁓ speaker-3: What was that show? Matters? speaker-4: He's got a scheme to make money. ⁓ speaker-3: That's awesome. speaker-2: Is it? speaker-3: I I think we're... speaker-4: If we could shape it in the right direction. speaker-2: It can be used for good. speaker-3: I'm like, I don't think you're gonna be able to not own a business because I don't think you're gonna take direction speaker-4: Yeah, that's we kind of joked about that as like, yeah, you know, we might be shaping you to be a good leader, but I you know, that's been some of our newest topics of conversation with him is like how to let someone else lead sometimes and how to, you know, listen to others. And I pulled him, they just had their first big group project, right. And that was a lot of that was a lot of I was like, have you asked your buddy what color he wants for the background? And he's like, well, no, because it should be blue. You know, so yeah, there's there's there's some occupational hazards in that too. Well, this has been fun. Yeah. I mean, you know, I feel a little sadistic saying that because we talked about some pretty dark things. But like I said in the intro, right, sometimes, you know, that's where it speaker-2: Good times. you speaker-4: sometimes it's appropriate, you know, like to be able to be lighthearted and kind of joke about these things in the way of like, hey, sometimes you just have to laugh, right? speaker-2: I like Jen said, you come out, like obviously this isn't how I wanted to learn this skill, but I came out on the other side and I, I like, grew from it. Right. And so you take these as best you can and you can sit on the floor kicking and screaming, or you can learn from it. And so what would you rather do? speaker-4: Right, it's like to the control, right? Because, you know, Stephen will talk often about like how most of us are control freaks, or at least we come into this control freaks. kind of learned that the amount of control we really have is not what we thought. ⁓ you know, it's like, speaker-2: I think that's the whole struggle. I'm supposed to have control over this. God damn. speaker-4: I wonder where I came from. But yeah, it's that whole, the mistakes that happened in the past, right? We have to sometimes just be able to let them go. Well, as always, I appreciate these conversations. I love it when the panel comes together, but I do want to give you all a chance at any closing thoughts for today before we head out. speaker-2: I'm gonna say I'm so glad I'm not Chris or Alicia, because I don't have a recoupment on it. speaker-1: Cheers, you too, cheers. If you need anything, just let us know. speaker-4: Hugs though. speaker-2: Yeah, seriously. Yeah. If you need anything. Yeah. speaker-3: would just say, think, just, yes, is it stressful? Absolutely. But at the end of the day, what can you learn from it? And how can you improve upon it later so that the next time it's not as stressful? speaker-0: I'm still thinking of something nice to say. speaker-3: Hahaha! ⁓ I'm going to try and not focus on the audit, do the things and move on, right? Not have that like bog me down. ⁓ But ultimately like just, you know, focus on, okay, let's keep doing what we do best ⁓ as all of us like as providers. ⁓ and having a positive impact with these families. But what gets me up and brings me into the building every day ⁓ is that growth process for the kids. So ⁓ yeah, I like to focus on the positive if you can't tell. speaker-4: It can be, it can really help. really, there's science behind it that says it can help to focus on the positives. all right. So my challenge for those of you listening today is to do something fun with and for your staff for, for April Fools. You don't have to go putting googly eyes on toilets or you don't have to go, you know, you don't have to go all out for like pranks and stuff, but find some fun, like bring some fun into your organization that first week of April, I think would be my challenge for you. And then tell me about it. I want to hear all about it. Tell me what you do. Feel free to call into the podcast hotline if you want to talk about the fun that you brought into your company for April Fools, or if you have any other questions or stories that you want to share, we would love to hear them. speaker-2: Yeah, share it in the free Discord group. speaker-4: ⁓ yes. ⁓ yeah, come join us at our support group. for those of you who, by this point, everyone will have known that we have switched over to Discord. But the registration form for joining our support group, it's free. everyone, all business leaders are welcome. ⁓ That is in the show notes along with the podcast hotline phone number. I hope you all have an Excellent day and we'll see you next week. speaker-5: you speaker-4: Thanks for joining us on ABA Business Leaders. speaker-2: We provide mentorship, courses, handbooks, billing support, credentialing, HIPAA support, web design, and more. Everything you need to build an ethical and sustainable ABA practice. speaker-4: You can find all of our resources at 3piSquared.com. speaker-2: Don't forget to subscribe and share this podcast with other ABA business owners. speaker-4: We'll see you next time and remember you don't have to build your practice alone.