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98% No Confidence: Is Sheriff Nanos Sabotaging the Nancy Guthrie Investigation? · Unshaken & Unafraid with Joe Pags

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Did you know the sheriff leading the Nancy Guthrie investigation
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: is in serious trouble. I'm talking about in his own department,
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: ninety eight point two percent no confidence vote from his
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: own deputies, and reports of an FBI investigation into his department.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: The tenant Rady Sutton is here to break down what
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: the cast means for the Guthrie case. You cannot have
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: a department in revolt while a woman is missing. You
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: need these facts. Well, can you tell me about the
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: investigative prowess or lack thereof of Sheriff Chris Nanos.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: Well, okay, so you're talking about a law enforcement leader
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: who does not have the confidence of his police department.
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: Let me start on that. He actually had a ninety eight.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: Point two percent of the department voted a no confidence
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: vote against him.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: Let's break his news. I had no idea. For those
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: who don't know, you can do that. We had a
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: question here at San Antonio about the police chief not
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: too long ago that no confidence vote can't go through.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: Ninety eight percent said no confidence in the sheriff. I
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: didn't know that. Why didn't we know that?
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you probably didn't know that he was under
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: FBI investigation a few years ago. Either didn't no clue
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: himself himself that that agency has had troubled leadership for
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: a while under him and one of his deputy chiefs
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: was there was an FBI investigation, Arinco investigation, a bunch
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: of money turned up missing, and during the investigation, his
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: deputy chief committed suicide.
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, and no idea.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so there's been a lot of issues involving him.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: But let's talk about this case. Because I've been down Tuson.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: I was there for nine days covering this for other channels,
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: right right, And of course I've been a cop for
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: thirty four years.
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: I know what leadership is supposed to be.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: And watching nanos doing the initial.
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: Press conferences were was just uh, I was, I was.
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: I was dumbfounded. He was, he was.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: His performance was dismal, for he walked, he told, he
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: said things he shouldn't have said. Then later on he
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: walked some of those things. Back then they cleared the scene.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: This is first of all, they treated it like a
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: like a search and rescue case at the beginning, when
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: there was clearly evidence of a crime scene, which they
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: later said, this is a crime scene. Well, why would
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: you release a crime scene of of a of a kidnapping,
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: which is how it was first viewed. Why would you
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: It's it's leadership is everything. Now, they have very talented
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: police officers there who are hard working with deputies. Now
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: let's but let's let's set the senior So, Pima County
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: is a massive county. It's huge, and Tucson lies within
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: Pima County. But Tucson has its own police department, and
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: Tucson it's a rough town. They last year they invested
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: negated about fifty murders. Oh, now Pima County, Pima County
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: is not They had about five. Now why is that
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: significant to what I'm what I'm going to be bringing
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: up to you. Well, in addition to his poor leadership,
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: uh and the reasons for it, this sheriff got in
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: some type of pisson contest with the with the investigators,
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: with his detectives in the homicide bureau.
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: This this goes back a few months, and.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: So he basically reassigned all the experienced investigators to punishment
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: details like patrol or wherever he sent him thereby leading
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: leaving very putting, very inexperienced attacks actives into the homicide Bureau. Now,
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: of all things where you want your best, most experienced people,
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: it's in homicide because, especially in an agency that only
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: investigates five homicides year, it takes experience in order to
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: become a competent homicide investigator. It takes world experience to
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: do it. One of the detectives, that's my understanding, has
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: never investigated a homicide. So you have inexperienced homicide guys.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: Thank goodness that the FBI stepped up in such a
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: such a big way that it did. But once again,
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: it's a dismal it's a dismal showing of leadership which
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: affects the investigative process and the prowess of these of
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: these detectives. You can't blame them, they don't have the experience.
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: Well, let me ask you this question, Lieutenant Randy Sutton
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: retired going to follow his great organization, the Wounded Blue
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: Dot Org. Because of how it was handled early on. Again,
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: you you've already mentioned this. It was clearly a crime scene.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: You've got blood drops at the front door, yet the
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: front door camera was destroyed or taken, and then you
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: find somebody who's a stranger's DNA inside the house. Why
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: would you ever think that was a search and rescue?
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: Why would you why would you not look at this
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: as a crime scene from moment one. I don't have
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: blood drops on my front doorway neither do you.
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: Isn't that?
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: I mean, any cop like Cop one on one is, Hey,
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: there's blood on the front door. Maybe we should tape
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: this off and not untape it till we find out
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: where the blood came from.
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: You would think so, you would think so, And that
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: isn't That isn't the way that this went down. Now,
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: remember that in one of his dismal press conferences, Natos
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: said that there was no there was no.
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: Camera footage available and he fully believed that.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: Well, if it weren't for the FBI coming in, Yeah,
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: who who has incredible forensic abilities and digital capabilities. Working
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: with Google, they recovered the most key piece of evidence
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: in this entire investigation, and that, of course, is the
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: video of that monster, you know, on the front on
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: the front.
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: Area of the home.
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: So once again the sheriff looked like an idiot because
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: because he made that statement. And now but now he
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: won't even do a press conference because hey, he's.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: Doing these he's doing these individual sitdowns. Randy, this is
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: very strange to me. He's taking individual reporters and he's
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: spending his entire day talking about the same thing to
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: individual reporters, and it comes off like he's trying to
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: save his own reputation.
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: I'm with you.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: Go and stand behind the podium, go and stand on
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: a microphone, take questions from the media. Do one session
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: every day at noon or three o'clock or whatever it is,
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: get us an update, and then go do the work.
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: It doesn't look like he's even doing the work. He's
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: he's playing damage control.
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: And well, you know, this goes right along with his
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: type of leadership, right. I think he was punishing the
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: media for uh, you know, for the for the dismal
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: showing that he did, and he was so roundly criticized
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: so many times in so many ways. He just said,
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: in fact, he went radio silent for like four days.
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: You didn't hear anything from nothing.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: So you went to a I went to a basketball
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: game in there too at some point, so I mean, listen, Yeah,
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: but obviously he screwed up from the beginning. So how
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: did it work about the connection with the FBI, Because
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: I'm geting all sorts of mixed reaction. Did Nanos end
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: up calling them in? Did the FBI say, hey, we
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: heard about this because it's Savannah Guthrie's mother, can we
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: help you? How did that connection happen? And it sounds
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: like you've got some your ears to the ground there
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: from the from the front line troops in the sheriff's office.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: Is it true that that Nanos it was not cooperating
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: with the FBI early on.
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he hesitated in calling them in. He should They
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: should have been called in. This was clearly a kidnapping. Yeah,
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: And of when you when you have kidnapping, you can
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: just say that's FBI all over it.
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: They have the forensic capabilities, they have the they they
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: have the resources, uh to to deal with this. But
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: he he clearly didn't want to. In fact, several days later,
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: remember remember the glove, the faces glove that was found
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: two miles away.
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: He didn't even send it to the FBI lab.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: He sent it to his own private lab that that
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: their department has used.
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: Which is mind boggling. When you're working hand in hand.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: Allegedly with the FBI, why wouldn't you send it directly
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: to their lab?
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: Why cause a delay?
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: In getting the information to codis to the combined you
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: know DNA index system, which had to be had eventually
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: had to be sent to them.
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: Anyway, why it doesn't make any sense. It's just it
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: just doesn't make any sense.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: But and the FBI actually came out and said he's
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: not cooperating with us. For them to even do that
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: is startling. But and you'll notice this, Joe, you haven't
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: heard a peep out of the FBI.
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: Not peep. Yeah.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: Usually usually the special Agent charge will come out and
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: do a joint press conference or something. They have been
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: completely radio silent, even though they have a massive team there.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: They have a command post, they have the hostage rescue
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: team there, they have four hundred agents that they've sent there.
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: So but they don't want I don't think they want
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: to be associated publicly with this guy.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: Well I was going to ask you why is that?
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: Because the FBI should be taking the lead. It sounds
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: like they're not. It sounds like p MA County still
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: is in the lead for some reason. And it kind
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: of makes sense what you just said. Why get in
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: the middle of this mud when they're busy investigating the
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: case and they want to solve the So I guess
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: I understand why they're not out in front, but I
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: almost expect cash to come out at some point and go, listen,
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: here's what we're facing out there, and this could have
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: gone a lot smoother. Maybe they're waiting for the actual
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: conclusion of the case. So let me ask you something
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: very directly, as an investigator, would this case, in your opinion,
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: have been closer to being solved by now had we
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: not had the missteps by this one guy.
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: I don't know the answer to that question.
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: There's that's there's too many variables there, Probably not, I
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: would say, probably not.
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: Why is this one so hard to hear to solve?
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: What is it? Well?
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: They are they are literally and this is kind of
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: shocking to me that that they haven't been able to
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: at least they haven't publicly said that they've found cell
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: phone data from the towers there. You know, they this
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: is this is you know, a richly mined area for
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: instances like this, And unless these people were so professional,
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: they didn't bring any cell phones. And that's a possibility too.
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: This was this was planned. So here's here's another thing.
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: Let let I want to I want to talk about
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: this place there's all kinds of conjecture out there, you know,
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: was this a burglary gone wrong. I've heard some quote
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: experts unquote put that theory forward. Now, I don't believe
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: that to be the case, and I'll tell you why.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: For if you look at the crime statistics in Pma
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: County for a nighttime residential burglaries, they call them hot
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: prowls because for a burglar to go into a residence
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: knowing that there's someone there, that's why they do all
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: the burglaries during the daytime, because there's nobody there.
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: It's it.
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: It is so rare in that in Pema County that
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: I think they had the last one, you know, five
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: years ago or something. That is not what a burglar does.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: And a burglar doesn't dress up like that monstrosity that
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: we saw on that video camera. Right, That's that this
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: was targeted. There's no doubt in my mind, and I
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: have my own theories about that that I really, you know,
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: don't talk about it in the other media because my
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: theories are just that my theories.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: Well, right, Rady, let me ask you this, lieutenor Raandy Sutton,
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: go ahead, but I.
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: Don't believe that this was anything random.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: Okay, I fully believe that this was a targeted crime,
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: and I fully don't believe that this was a kidnap
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: for ransom either.
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about the actual crime scene. It's Lieutenant Randy
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: Sutton go to the Wounded Blue Dot Org. The Wounded
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: Blue Dot Org. If he looks familiar, He's been in movies.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: He was also on cops for a long time and
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: a great police officer investigator for thirty plus years. Let's
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: talk about the actual crime scene, because I don't know
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: anything from anything about whether somebody's professional or not professional.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: Like you said, he dressed up in this constrosity. He
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: had to have known there was a camera in the front, otherwise,
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: why hide himself so well. He had to have known
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: there was something going on. But when he walks up,
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: he sort of walks to the left, sort of puts
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: his hand over the camera. I'm not sure what he's
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: trying to do, and he grabs some brush, which looks
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: very unprofessional to me, and then he goes inside. There's
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: DNA left in side. We're not sure what form of
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: DNA it is. And then when they leave, either she's
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: walking and bleeding or they're carrying her out, her blood
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: is in the front door. He doesn't try to clean
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: it up or not leave this mess behind. So how
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: professional and how planned could this have been to not
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: have gone back and at least covered your tracks, and
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: then he throws the glove out allegedly two miles later.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: I'm confused by it because you're right, it looks like
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: it was a targeted attack in my very unprofessional opinion,
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: and he looks like he's setting it up to not
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: get caught. But then you leave all this evidence but behind,
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: Why why would you do all that?
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: He didn't leave all this evidence behind?
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: First of all, I don't know that that glove that
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: they recovered two miles away has anything to do with anything.
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: Wow, you're the first person saying yeah, I'm not.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: I am not convinced that that has any any credence
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: at all to this investigation. Now, the DNA found inside
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: the home, that's a totally different story. And since we
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: do here's what we don't know. We don't know in
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: what context that DNA was found. Was that DNA semen?
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: Was it blood?
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: Was it? Where did it? How did it get there?
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: And that's critical information because we don't know what the
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: crime scene was like, was there was there signs of
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: the struggle?
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: Was he take was she taken from her bed? You know?
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: Was she sexually assaulted?
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: These are things we don't know, but if we had,
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: if we and this is the type of thing that
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: they will that they should not tell us. They should
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: not tell the public this because this is stuff that
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: that only the bad guy and I think there were
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: more than one bad guys about.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: Well, why not clean it the blood of the front doorstep.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: They had another shoes bleeding and it's her, it's her
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: dna from that blood.
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: They couldn't have cleaned it up. Couldn't cleaned it up.
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: I mean you can it would still be there, I
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: mean there were still they would they would, you know,
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: luminol would find it. They don't care. They don't care.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: Now you'll notice that he was in no hurry. He wasn't.
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: You're right, he was there a long time. It was
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: there a long time he was. Now that it is incongruous.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: If he knew that that camera was there, why wouldn't
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: he just bring some spray paint or some or a
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: piece of black tape to cover it up?
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: Right? And so that that's that's a little incongruous. I don't.
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: I'm not sure about that piece.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: But he destroyed it, you know, And I believe that
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: they did that from inside the home. I think that
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: that whoever was in the back of the house was
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: not concerned.
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: You know, think of this. What is the purpose of.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: Having one of those ring doorbells or nest doorbells? So
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: you told me right away there, Yeah, right, they weren't
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: worried about it. Wow, they weren't worried about it. That's interesting.
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: Why weren't they worried about it?
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: Did they know there wasn't a subscription? Is that where
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: we're leading toward?
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: No, No, I'm not leaning towards that. I'm leaning toward.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: Did they were they able to somehow incapacitate or prior
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: to entering the home? Wow, that's an interesting angle. I
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: would not have thought of it. By the way, Lieutenan
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: Randy Sutton, there's a little bit of a delay on.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: I mean to talk over you if I am, I
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: apologize about that law enforcement for thirty plus years in
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: Las Vegas and New Jersey. You've seen him on cops,
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: you've seen him in movies. So you said something a
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: little while ago that I want to. I want you
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: to expand upon if you don't mind. Why are you
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: convinced there's more than one person? Do you think there's
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: somebody in the back door trying to let this guy in?
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: Do you think there's somebody wedding in the car? Why
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: more than one person? I think that there was more
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: than one person, because I do believe that there was
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: somebody in the back of the house, and I also
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: believe that to transport her required a driver. Now did
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: did is the driver? Where there are two people or
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: where there are three? That's my that is my question.
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: And if there were three, that means that they had
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: to have a plan for the getaway driver to roll
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: up at a certain period of time. And that's why
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: if if they were if they did not bring cell
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: phones because they knew that they could be tracked, then
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: they had to have a real timeline here to know
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: when the driver was going to come collect you know,
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: the missus Guthrie and them for their getaway.
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: Wow, there's so much there. Let me go back to
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: the camera a second, because I might have misunderstood you.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: Did you say that you thought that they had the
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: ability possibly to incapacitate the camera or they thought that
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: she was incapacitated when they got there, so they weren't
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: worried about it. Do you think that they could have
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: I meant incapacitate per okay, because now if they could
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: have had the ability to incapacitate and incapacitate the camera,
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: that would be a technological thing. Or maybe they were
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: in the circle somehow. What do you make of the
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: whole The family is ruled out. But they didn't say
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: friends and neighbors and others who knew her are ruled out.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: They just said the family was ruled out. What do
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: you make of that?
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: Well, the first thing in make of it is that
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: the sheriff can't rule out anybody.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: I don't care what he says. Oh, he said he
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: rolled them out like day two. He literally said he
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: rolled out everybody day too. Again Randy in some weird
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: move to cover his ass. Why even say that? Do
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: you know why he would say that?
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: It is absolutely mind boggling to me, mind boggling. Family.
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: There has to be a relationship basis in this, in
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: this attack right there, there is some relationship. It may
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: be as tenuous as somebody who knew the house or
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: you know, had worked on the house, or delivered a
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: package of the house or whatever. But there is some
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: relationship that that when this is solved, we're going to
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: get We're going to get knowledge of that there was
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: some some relationship. Then now let's look at motives here.
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: What are the motives for crime like this? Money is
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: probably number one. Yeah, Revenge is a possibility, lust is
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: a possibility, Hatred is a possibility.
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: But it's got to be one of those. There's no
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: there's there's no other motives.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: I mean, this wasn't hey, you know what, let's go
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: kidnap an old lady today that this was done, this
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: was done for a reason. Well, and this is why
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: this is such a difficult investigation, because the investigators have
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: to figure out what the motive is. That's critical to
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: discovering who did it.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: Randy, can we can we at this point say this
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: isn't about money. And here's why I say this again,
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: I'm a novice. You can correct me anything that I
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: say wrong.
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: Here.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: If you got her and want her for ransom, you
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: got to show me a sign of life. You got
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: to show me something. You got to show me that
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: the commodity is still available. Otherwise why would I send you,
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: I think they're asking for six million dollars allegedly. Do
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: you think this is for money? If so, why haven't
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: they done something to get the money.
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: I do not think that this is for money, No, okay,
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: I don't.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: I think the ransom demands were either grown up as
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: a distraction.
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: Or you have other people.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: Well we know we have other people that are involved
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: in trying to extort money from this family. That one
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: was arrested, and I really do hope that the investigators
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: are following every lead when it comes down to the
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: people that you know contacted TMZ with these a ransom
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: demand and b the one that says I know who
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: did it and if you want to know, you better
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: pay me.
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: When it's the same amount of money.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: That the FBI is offering, you know, it's if this
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: is If this was serious, we would have a proof
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: of life. There would have been a ransom demand that
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: was legitimate, and I don't believe that that was ever
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: the case.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: Nobody is in custody, nobody's being detained right now, but
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: they have talked to four different people so far, starting
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: with the delivery driver who decided to do a media
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: tour afterwards, which is very strange, and he wasn't sure
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: if he'd ever delivered to that house. And then you've
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: got three more people. They've got a range rover that
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: they held a tarp over to get something out of
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: the range rover. Really, in your experience, do you think
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: they've already spoken to who they assume might be involved
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: in this all the they don't have enough to hold
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: him or her.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: It's possible. It's possible now considering the land rover. Glad
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: you brought that up. So they were able to obtain
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: search warrants on two different occasions, now right. The first
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: one was the delivery driver that was apparently not connected
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: in any way. The second we we don't really know
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: what that relationship was or is, but we do know
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: that they did the They did a search warrant at
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: the house and also on this vehicle, and they seized
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: the vehicle. Now that's telling to me because that means
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: they found something in there that they wanted to either
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: process or they wanted to do a search in a
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: controlled environment.
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: That's not the usual way this is done.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: If they had cleared that individual of anything at the scene,
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: they wouldn't have done that.
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: They seized the vehicle.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: Well, they would, they would, They would be probable cause
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: on a warrant to seize the vehicle.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: Right, correct, correct, And you Now here's the other here's
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: the This could be part of the issue. They might
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: have found something in the vehicle that is totally unrelated
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: but was illegal. They could have found drug while there,
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: they could have found stolen property, you.
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: Know how you think about that. Yeah, there's there's so.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: Many avenues here Joe that that we we we just
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: don't know the answers to her.
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: And so you know, this is like, this is like
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: that what was that game clue? Yes? Right? Was this? Like? Yeah,
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: that's what this is like. It's like real life clue.
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: At showing our age that we know we know the
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: game clue. A lot of people watching are going, I
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: don't know what clue is? What are they talking about?
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: It could have been Colonel Mustard in the in the
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: den with the with the candlestick. All right, it's our
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: Rady Sutton, a former lieutenant he's retired now founder the
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: Wounded Blue but the Wunded Blue dot org. Let me ask
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: you about the Walmart connection. When you go into Walmart,
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: a some dude greet you or at some lady B.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: You're on video constantly, you walk in, you're on video.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: They know who went there, they know who shopped. I
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: would assume that this part, again maybe a bad assumption,
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: but I would assume you go to Walmart and you
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: get the backpack that's available there, you get the jacket
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: that's available there, you get the gloves that are available there,
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: you get the ski mask that's available there, and you
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: probably buy them all at once and then leave unless
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: they're so you know, nefarious that they decided let me
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: go to several different Walmarts and get all these items.
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: Do you think that.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: There's a huge investigatory action being taken with Walmart that
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: we aren't privy to.
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: There has to be right, absolutely not.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: This is a huge This is a huge clue, but
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: it also requires an incredible amount of manpower to investigate this. Right,
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: every store in the Tucson area is going it has
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: been There's no doubt in my mind, it's already it's
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: already been done, has been contacted. They're getting the footage
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: of their cameras, looking at receipts, they're looking at their
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: their questioning, they're questioning. You know, the clerks that that
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: and and at the same time, you'll I saw an
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: interview with a gunshot owner a couple of days ago,
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: and he said that the FBI was in showing them
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: pictures of asking about these individuals.
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: So they they're they're they're following every lead.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: But you know, they have I think they got something
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: like twenty five thousand emails, phone calls, et cetera. And
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: even if you have four hundred agents there, it requires
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: a massive amount of crime. And this once again, you know,
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: we're we're a society that that that expects instantaneous gratification.
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: We're so used to seeing you know, the the the
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: episodes on TV and in the movies where they solve
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: the crimes in forty eight hours or you know, a
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: two hour time period, and that isn't reality. That's not
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: It's great when it does happen, you know, but this
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: is a this is a planned event. This isn't a
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: crime of passion. Most of the most of the murders
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: that take place, most of the crimes of violence that
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: take place, they happen at at because of rage. It
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: happens because of a relationship, and so they're much easier
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: to solve like that.
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: This isn't that case. This is right, This is a
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: true who done it and.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: Have ready a law order. We solve it in an hour.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: In one hour, you can solve the case on the
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: law and order before you went out of time.
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: Gun.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: Let me let me ask you about the gun. I'm
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: a gun carrier. I've got five guns not far from
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: where I'm sitting right now. I would never, ever, ever,
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: never carry a gun like that guy was carrying it
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: that day. That whole store is available at Walmart. To
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: imagine that, I don't know if the gun that he
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: had is available at Walmart or not know that some
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: Walmarts do sell firearms. But having said that, the way
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: he's he's carrying the gun, does that tell you anything
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: about who this guy is. I mean, nobody who's like
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: a Second Amendment guy or gal is going to.
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: Carry like that.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: It's dangerous, it's stupid, it doesn't make any sense.
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: So I spoke with some sources down in that area,
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: sources familiar with the Cartels, and believe it or not,
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: there is a term for that type of carrying a
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: reality with the Cartels, they called a Mexican carry.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: I had no idea. So you think this guy's a
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: cartel guy. Wouldn't they be more sophisticated than this and
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: try to get the ransom?
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: Then consider this possibility. Okay, consider that this was hired out,
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: This wasn't done by the person who planned it. Okay,
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: this is considered that this Where would you find someone
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: who has done kidnappings in the past and has no conscience?
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: I would guess at the cartel levels.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: You would guess at the cartel level experienced kidnappers. They've
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: done this, they do they're doing There's a number of
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: these that have taken place in Phoenix, by the way,
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: that you don't hear about, but there their their ransom
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: demands for for illegal aliens that that that they get
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: from their families in Mexico.
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: So they have experienced doing this.
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: And if you look at it, if you look at
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: the way this individual mood, if you looked at his legs,
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: he was bow legging, yes, and or he had right
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: and uh I I fully I fully keep in in
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: the context of this situation that that he might have
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: come from south of the border, which would would be
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: a big plus for not having his d n A
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: in codis uh and he was high.
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: This was hired out. I I fully believe this is
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: hired out.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: If he shot the gun well inside, because you know,
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: we we know that she was injured. If he shot
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: the gun well inside, would they have released that to
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: the public. Would we know that if he if he
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: shot the gun, so they wouldn't he wouldn't.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: No, But there's no reason to shoot her. There's no
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: reason to shoot her. She's wanting four years old. Well,
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: but why do you have the gun controllable? Well, then
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: why do you have the gun? You know what I mean?
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: Fear fear intimidation. Okay, makes sense. And and remember.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: You can have all the planning in the world, there
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: could always be that occurrence where Hm, a sheriff's vehicle
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: just happened to drive by and notice something and make
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: a vehicle stop, right, So you have to plan for
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: any eventuality when you're committing a major felony crime like this,
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: and and and uh, you know this is at the
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: end of the day, we still have an eighty four
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: year old woman, the mother of of these of these people,
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: who is who has been taken and we have we
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: have to you know, think of the humanity here, the
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: terror that this poor woman went through. I mean, think
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: about that, that that creature walking in on you in
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: the middle of the night, and I just it sends
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: shutters down my my heart.
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: That what she.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: What she went through that night, and I pray that
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: she is alive.
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, me too. I don't believe that's the case. But
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: you know, Hope springs eternal. I'm with you. Yeah. Yeah.
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: And it was, you know, seeing the seeing the the
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: Guthrie family and the pain on their faces and they're
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: you know, the the pleas if you have any any
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: you madity in you at all, you know, you have
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: to feel sorry for these people and what they're going through.
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: I've seen, you know, Joe, I've seen so many crime
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: victims over my years. I've seen the desperation. I've seen
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: the heartache. And you know, this is one of the
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: reasons that I do what I do with the with
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: the Wounded Blue because officers are feeling it too. You know,
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: there's there's gonna be a lot of a lot of
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: post traumatic stress that revolves around this case.
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: And is the is the website by the way, go ahead?
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So anyway, we're I'll be down back in Tucson
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: this weekend covering it once again and let's hope that
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: that they get the major break in the case and
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: they are able to bring someone to justice for this.
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: We're all hoping for absolutely, And I couldn't agree with
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: you more. My viewers, my listeners, they all agree with
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: you as well. Let me ask you one last question.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: I'll let you go and thank you for coming back
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: on your knowledge. Is is so amazing the DNA stuff,
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: because again, we're in a DNA you know, way of life.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: We think, hey, you got the DNA, you got the guy.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: It turns out, as you said, not in codis he's
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: not in the in the the the crime index that
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: we keep here in the United States, that that that
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: the FBI has. Could be a cartel connection, could be
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: a foreign guy, that could be somebody who's never done
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: anything before. But I think you and I would agree
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: that's probably not the case. Having said all of that,
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: what can they glean from the DNA, because they're talking
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: about genealogy, so they could tell where the guy's from,
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: what his ethnicity is, what his nationality might be, you know,
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: what his ancestry is, certainly, but do we do we
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: have any other way that I'm not aware of to
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: find out a closer proximity of who this guy might
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: be just from the DNA.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, absolutely, and that way is through familial DNA
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: and they're they're actively searching for this.
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: Now.
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: You know, there's all those sites out there where people
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: want to know about their their origins, their uh, their ancestry,
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: et cetera. Yeah, so there's a budget of data bases
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: out there.
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: Now.
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: Some of them will cooperate with law enforcement, some of
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: them won't. You know, it's a they they're walking an
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: interesting tight rope there, yes, but you know it's the
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: way they solve the Coldberger case, right or you know
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: the way they arrested Coldburger.
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: So yeah, there there are avenues.
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: I'm absolutely one hundred percent sure that that is being
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: pursued right now as we speak. That's a longer process,
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: of course, but it is. It's a valid process. So
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: the answer to that question is yes.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: Ready to listen again. The knowledge is key and it's
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: amazing every time. Go and support this great organization. He
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: runs the Wounded Blue Dot organ is Lieutenant Randy Sutton retired.
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: Just just great to have the knowledge. Keep up the
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: great work. We're watching you on the big network television
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: as well. And thank you for your friendship. I appreciate you.
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: And if you would tune into my podcast it's called
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: The Cops Life and that is everywhere too. And my
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: new my new book just came out, Rescuing nine to
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: one one, The Fight for America's Safety.
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: I love it. I booked that. I wish every every
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: American would read. Say the name of the the name
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: of the book again, rescuing nine one one, The Fight
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: for America's Safety, Go and get it.
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: We'll spend more time on that next time we speak
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: as well. Randy, thanks for the time of the access.
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: My pleasure. Jokes always great to do your show.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: All right, brother, we'll talk very soon. That's it for
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: this one. I'm shaken and unafraid with Joe Pegs. Make
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: sure you subscribe. We'll drop another one very soon.