Latest / Brief Recess: A Legal Podcast with Michael Foote & Mélissa Malebranche / The Latest (Fake) Assassination Attempt & How to Fix the Justice System (w. Emily Galvin Almanza)

Transcript

The Latest (Fake) Assassination Attempt & How to Fix the Justice System (w. Emily Galvin Almanza) · Brief Recess: A Legal Podcast with Michael Foote & Mélissa Malebranche

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Brief Recess. I'm Michael Foot, I'm Melissa Albranch.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Today we're going to talk about the time I kissed
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: at Jehovah's witness, the first times that we both got high,
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: the latest stage shooting from Trump, Trump's unhinged sixty minute interview.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: He did not fall. We predict Cash Betel's downfall. We
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: got a full Weeji board out for that one. We
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: share why we lie to our doctors. Actually, no, we don't,
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: and I'm going to keep doing it. And then we're
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: going to interview Emily Galvin l Manza about the criminal
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: justice system. And I'm going to answer all your burning
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: questions from the DM So stick around. But I'm supposed
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: I'm getting used to double breasted. How to button it
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: and unbuttoned?
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: Is it difficult?
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: No, it's not difficult, It's just different. I do a
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: lot of self unconscious What is it? Yeah, unconscious unbuttoning
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: when I'm like standing and sitting. I'm used to it
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: being here, but it's over here now and I have
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: to adjust. It's like a thing. It's like how your
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: glasses are on your head and not your face. You
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: like get used to that, do.
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: You have a good rest of the week.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: No, no, really, what led you to believe I would
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: have a good week?
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know. It was your birthday week,
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: it was our birthday.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's right, it was our birthday week. How
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: is yours good?
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: I spent a good portion of the day by myself,
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: which is what I like.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: I love being alone, so do I.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: I had a really good day. I had a massage,
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: a facial, a manicurein a petticure, all of which alone,
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: and then I had a lovely dinner with my husband.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: When you do it all at once like that, are
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: you like a queen where there's like a person working
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: on each TOUTSI.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: No, you know what, because all the people that I
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: like are not in the same place. There is a
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: little bit of me hoof in it from one place
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: to another.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's like that though, because sometimes, like the
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: good facial, we go to Rowena. I don't want Rowena
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: doing anything other than my facial.
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: Well, not just that, but Rowena is where she is.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: She's a specialist. Right my massage therapist, Beryl shout out
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: to Beryl is where she is, and the manicure pedicure
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: place is where they are and they're not together.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: I got a massage. It was definitely like underground, illegal, unlicensed.
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: It's good though.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: It was so good. Yeah, I don't know the name.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: How will you go back?
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: I probably won't. It was like Brigadoon, where like every
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: fifty years the town appears. It's like where I go
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: and I'll never be able to find that massage again.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: I'm sure that man's not there anymore. And it was
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: just incredible, and you know there's actually I think it's
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: even better because I know I'll never have it again,
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean?
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: Really, I wish that I could get a massage every week.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: I can't, but I wish that I could. I have
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: like weird like neck things.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: I like go through faces like once I get when,
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: I'm like, that was incredible. I should be doing that more.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: And then I forget that it's an option.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: No, I will never forget. I will never forget about
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: these are Life's life is shitty, Michael. Everything is fucked up.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: I've gotten everything is terrible. What's my mom saying about
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: the church? That time?
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: Oh? When was burning? I called? I was with Melissa
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: when we found out Notre Dame's on fire and we
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: called Melissa's mother together.
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: Like everything is burning and nothing show.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: Can you more dramatic? This is sidebar. This is all
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: the weird, wild things going on in our lives and
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: our personal lives.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: I spent a lot of time with my family this weekend.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: My cousin Valerie is having a baby, and we went
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: to her baby shower, and I spent a lot of
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: time with my mom and my uncle like so her brother.
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: Yea.
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: Most of the time I was just like looking at
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: them like this and just like laughing.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: Because they're like click and clack the top of brothers.
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: Absolutely and they're like, so they're so clearly brother and sister.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: That's me and my sister that it's so funny to me.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: I always say, if I had hairshet pull it like
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: we're just we're just like a hair pulling brother and
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: sister in the backseat. Oh yeah, did you guys fight
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: a lot? Oh my god, yeah, what's the age difference?
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: Two years?
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: See, my brother and I didn't fight at all because
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: he was a baby, Like we were eleven years apart.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: It would have been weird. Oh way, do you know
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: what any.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that would that would have been weird. What's wrong
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: with you? Why are you fighting with a toddler?
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: Brothers years we had like nothing. Yeah, he was like
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: my pet. I just kind of took him everywhere.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: That's so cute though. Yeah, I remember my sister got
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: me high when I was like fifteen. We were driving
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: around with I.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: Don't understand these stories. These sometimes you say things to
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: me that are so unrelatable. They're so unrelatable. I don't
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: like this. Oh, when I was fifteen, I got hot.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: Where are the drugs from? Where are the drugs?
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: My sister's boyfriend, he was a Jehovah witness, he was,
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: and it got me high. He also kissed me once, yeah,
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: and so we got in a fight over him. But
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: he got me really high in the back seat. And
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: it's one of these things where, like a lot of people,
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: the first porn they ever see is like the weirdest
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: porn they'll ever see. It's like the first time I
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: got high, it was like the weirdest situation.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: The first porn. Most people, the first porn that they've
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: ever seen is the weirdest porn.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: Usually. I have a theory, like if someone was like, hey,
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: this is the first porn I saw. It's usually like
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: the weirdest shit, and then the rest of your life
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: you see like relatively normal porn. But anyway, I think this,
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: I know, I put that out there as a theory.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: I've yet to prove it. This is a hypothesis. This
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: is what science is about, right, And so we put
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: up the hypothesis.
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: Was it like a theory like my hug theory?
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like your three kinds of hugs. It's like that.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: That is mine. But I will say I want to
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: extend it to the first time you smoked pot. I
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: feel like every other time after that probably was a
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: more normal situation than what you experienced the first time.
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: How old were you the first time you smoked pot?
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: It was in the backstat of that car with the guys.
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: I was how old I was the first time I
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: tried pot? Yes, yes, just guess.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: I don't know. In your twenties twenty one, nineteen thirty,
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: forty thirty four, Melissa, maybe, oh my god, I was
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: a grown as some Mormon shit. That is some no call.
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: But again it is because it is not because I
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: was afraid or I thought anything was bad. I was
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: simply not interested.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: Do you know what I'm saying I thought you were
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: going to say sheltered like you weren't, like, but you
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: were out in these streets.
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: I was out in these streets doing stuff. But I
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: was so uninterested. I was like, why would you do that?
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: Can I tell you what?
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: When there's food?
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: Can I tell you what he did when he smoked
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: pot with me? For this is a firm fifteen. I
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: think you must have been like a couple of years
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: older than me in high school.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: Oh okay.
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: And he took the joint and after it was all
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: the way down to like a little the little nub,
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: the little nub, and it was just like a rolled
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: paper joint. He went sucked on it really hard. It's
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: still lit. Inhaled it and swallowed it the thing the
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: roach ate it ate it, sucked on it so hard.
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: These are experiences that I cannot.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: And I didn't, And it was the for me. I
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: was like, that is the weirdest thing I've ever seen.
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: And it's still the weirdest thing I've ever seen.
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: Did it make you feel like you should be doing
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: that or were you like, no, this is I was like,
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: that can't be part of it. Oh okay, there's no
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: way that is how it's supposed to go. Is that
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: the thing that can't be the thing?
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: I think that's how you're supposed to do.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: That's not how this goes. That's how any of this goes.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: This is your algorithm is showing. These are all the weird,
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: wild things happening in our beads on all of social media.
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: We had another fake shooting this week. Are you ready
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: to cover it? There's another stage shooting, another fake attempted
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: fascination of the president. So I figured we'd cover it.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: We actually just copy and pasted from the last two
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: times we covered the stage shooting.
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: So nothing new to see.
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but it was at the White House Correspondence and
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: it's the first time he's attended it. So put your
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: pen down, pens down, pencils down, heads up.
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: I think when I first, you're telling me about how
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: you felt. But when I heard that he was going
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: to do this the dinner, I was just like, that's
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: weird because he.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: Hates these people, these people, I hate these dinners.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: He hates these dinners. And I think the one time
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: that he did go, he got mad, he got roasted.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: Because that's the point of the thing, right, Obviously, we
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: all know about your credentials and breadth.
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: Of experience, and he got really pissed off, really upset.
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: He got butt hurt over it and decided that he
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: was never going to do this again.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: And then I was just like, why is he doing
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: this now?
• 8:58
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: And I was thinking to myself, is it because his
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: numbers are in the toilet?
• 9:03
  Speaker 5: Like?
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: What what is this? Because with this president, I feel like,
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: more than any other, it's never just to do the thing.
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: There's a reason behind it.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: Thirty three percent his approval rating right now, I mean
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: it's really bad. All the independence are Yeah.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: So I was just like, this feels wrong. And then
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: I don't know what I was doing.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: You called it You've got some I mean, no, witch.
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: No, it isn't. No, it isn't. It is just logical.
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: Do you know what I'm saying? There's nothing special about this.
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: It's just like one inferential leap. It was like a
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: small critical thinking.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: But Michael, I get so I'm so annoyed. I'm so
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: irritated that this whole thing because I just knew that
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: something was going to happen, and not because I'm so intuitive,
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: but because.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: He's never been right. He's gone It's like.
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: What is he after? What is he really after?
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: Is he going to say something? Is there going to
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: be a yeah, sho, sure enough? Not showing up. Did
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: you see the guy who kept eating?
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: I didn't see there's this guy.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: That would have been me, that would have been just sho.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry. The chicken Milans is really good Chicka Pats,
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: Chicken Pocatto or chicken franchise at those.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: Days, with some chicken with the with the green beans
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: with the almonds on it, almondine, so kind of a rice.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: Just kept gobbling down the journalist he kept eating. He
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: was like, ain't no way, ain't no thing but a
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: chicken wing.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: I mean, like, the whole thing was so ridiculous.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: I mean it was so stage as a photo millennia
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: like this, and Trump's like.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: But my favorite though, one of my favorite things of
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: the whole thing is then picking up JD. Vans by
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: the back of the jacket and dragging him out like and.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: They were dragging him out like he's an fighter, like.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: He was going to like like let me at let me.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: We know about JD is that he's always at fisticuffs
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: Like this is like he's a he's a w w
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: F fighter is going to laplancha someone with a folding chair. No,
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: like he's he's shad events. We've got like a bloated
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: face meme of him, like that's what he's not. He's
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: known for fucking a sofa and that meme, Like that's it.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: All he's done is blown out a lazy boy and
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: that one meme. He's not known for fighting? Why you
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: have to drag him out of there, like he's like
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: he's precious cargo.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean I think you got to drag him
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: out of there because he has no survival instincts, right,
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: he has no survival and he would just be out
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: there like a fish out.
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: Of the water, just flailing around, not doing anything, no
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: survival instincts.
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: He's procreating with furniture. He's not actually even trying to
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: like start a legacy. And did you hear he's still
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: It's two days later, he's still in the stairwell where
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: they left him. They haven't even gotten it. They haven't
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: even retrieved him.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: Shaking.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're still waiting. Someone's got to go get him.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: Someone's gonna be one, but nobody wants to. They're all
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: drawing straw and nobody wants to do it. Do you
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: know you might be too young for this? But do
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: you know who Benny Hill is? Okay? So Benny Hill
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: was this pretty famous British comedian. He had a show
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: called The Benny Hill Show and it's like known for
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: being kind of body slapsticky. But sometimes he would have
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: these skits where he would speed up the tape or
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: whatever and there was this weird music that would go.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: It was like, do right, somebody set I guess a
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: stucred service running around to that music?
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: Really funny.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: Should I've ever fucking seen I'm gonna find it because
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: it so funny. It's because it just feels like, what
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: do these guys do?
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: One video, they were like they were having RFK like
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: climb over a table and all of these and it's like,
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: there's no way that was the fastest way out of there.
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: They had him like walking diagonally over a table.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: But is it to sort of like be a constant
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: moving target so you can't get him if I'm bobbing.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: Maybe the table it's the cake topper.
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: It's like Trump's absolutely on his interview with the next day.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: The next day, I'm like did they book the interview
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: before the shooting, like they knew it was or no, just.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: Trying to do her job, and she's all wide. She
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: was just like when he goes and he's like, you're disgraceful,
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: she's like, so okay.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: Yes, okay. So just for context from people who haven't
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: seen it, He's sit down the.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: Next day with sixty minutes Nora o'donald, I'm so sorry.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: You know something pop the last week too.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: It's sorry, now.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: You want to check your arms. You're so uncouth.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: True, it's my fake sneeze. I'm so uncomfortable.
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: My face is way yeah, I know.
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: He just spit on everyone. So he does this in
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: interview the next day, which it's like again, it was
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: so they were so ready for everything. He's like, camera ready.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: It's so obviously this has been planned out by like
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: a PR crisis.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: I mean, go ahead.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: If anyone has any doubts about how I feel about
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: the situation, I personally believe this was planned and fake.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: And it's amazing that every single shooter in American history
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: doesn't miss, except for the three times Trump's approval ratings
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: around the toilet that is like, I'm sorry for me
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: once for me twice, that is a shame on if
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: you think this was really, I think it's a shame
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: on you.
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: Mo. I mean I think again, I think a lot
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: of people the minute that they heard about this, I
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: was like, I called bullshit on this.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: I called bullshit. I'm sorry every single time.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: Again, like I said, when I heard that he was
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: doing it, I was just like, there's no.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: Way, There's no way. I didn't even pause. We were
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: watching a movie. I didn't even pause that. I just
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: like I texted. I texted a friends and I was
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: like another one. She was like, yeah, okay, what do
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: you it was? Has anyone seen the New Spider Man? Yeah?
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: Of the dark, but a new lipstick? Like that's again,
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: that's like, that's what color red. I leaned towards reds.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: I enjoy a good red.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, do you have like a preferred Yeah?
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: Right now, my favorite red happens to be the Finisha. No,
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: that's a good color color. I would wear that vicious.
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: I want to do like a line of makeup and
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: now polish colors that have names like that.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there was I can't remember who it was.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: It was a rapid dog bite.
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: No, there was like a like a rapturess. I can't
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: remember what her name was, but she had no I
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: don't know, but she had a line, a makeup line,
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: and all the names of the products were like disgusting.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: One was like vaginal discharge or something like.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Anyway, so he had to sit down interview with
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: Nora and just really tore into her about how she's disgraceful.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: Well it starts out okay, right where, and you know,
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: just it's and it is Trump being Trump, sort of
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: like going off and rambling and saying whatever. And she
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: asks him some normal questions and she was like, were
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: you afraid? Yeah, no, I wasn't afraid. I wasn't afraid.
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: And she looked because the first lady, well yeah, but
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: she knew that I was there. You're the least helpful
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: person on the planet, sir.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: He fell asleep during a press conference last week.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: And then so she goes on and she's reading this
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: guy's manifesto and she's reading it Trump but like, looking
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: at her, he's like.
• 16:48
  Speaker 4: You know, I'll do this interview and they'll probably read
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: the manifesto. You know, it's a sick person, but you
• 16:55
  Speaker 4: should be ashamed of yourself reading there because I'm not
• 16:58
  Speaker 4: any of those things. Excuse me. You shouldn't be reading
• 17:04
  Speaker 4: that in sixty minutes. You're a disgrace. But go ahead,
• 17:07
  Speaker 4: let's finish the interview.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: She's like, oh, okay, it's the manifesto. I didn't I
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: didn't write this, mister president. I didn't write like and
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: he's just.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: Like she doesn't even like bite, yeah, she doesn't.
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: She's like, okay, I mean she's a professor, goes on
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: and she's trying, you know, but this is his manifesto, sir.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: He's like, you're disgusting.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: She's like okay, all right, yeah, yeah, all right, well yeah,
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: I know to feel like it is one of those
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: I have moments like that sometimes in court or with
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: clients where they're tearing into me or with other lawyers.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, so dead air is what you kind
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: of got. Yeah, like that's it, Yeah, Like that's it right.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: I feel like if someone isn't willing to engage in
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: and then this is like so far beyond this interview, right,
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: But like, if someone's not willing to engage with you
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: and any sort of conversation, it's just a waste of
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: your breath. So why do we bother not saying this
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: about you know, the sit down interview, do your thing,
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: sixty minutes like sell the odd time. But for me,
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: I'm like, if someone's not willing to actually talk to me,
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: I've got to other people I'd rather much rather spend
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: that time talking to.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: But they needed to do this, right, of course, they
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: needed to do this. I was just thinking, I'm actually
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: really surprised that he opted to do this with sixty
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: minutes as opposed to.
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: Fox, Like that was surprising, you know what I mean,
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: Like like.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: This, if this is what you're going to do, and
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: there's a narrative you're trying to spin it to be
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: a certain way, go where they're friendlier to you, Yes, yes, right,
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: go where they love you.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: Yes. And I think that Fox has been pretty critical
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: and what they've been I've been noticing it. Last week
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: before the shooting, Yeah, stage shooting, they were they were
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: pretty they've been pretty like hard on him and the
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: New York Post as well. I've been noticing just I'm
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: noticing the shift how like the Republican Party is kind
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: of like cut their losses and they're like, let's just
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: distance ourselves as much as we can from this. We've
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: got Cash Battel doing body shots like in ice luges,
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: and like, what are we?
• 19:10
  Speaker 5: Like?
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: What is We've got?
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: The been a more useless man? Has there ever been
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: a more useless man than Cash Btel?
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, it's like, what good are you?
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: What good are you?
• 19:24
  Speaker 4: Like?
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: I wonder if he looks at himself in the mirror
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: and he's just like, I fucking suck. They're the worst.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: I'm the worst. I am useless and just sitting there flailing.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: Like I really thought about this.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: I mean, but it's like it's it's again. You know
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: what I really hate about these people. Let me tell you.
• 19:50
  Speaker 5: What I tell.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: Is that this is what they bring out of me.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: I am not this person. I don't kick people on
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: the fucking subway. I don't hate people with the one
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: going this is what I'm saying. This is not who
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: I am. But these people have heard too somebody that
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: I don't like.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: Be the changer, don't want to see in the world.
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: And like it's too much.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: Everything is burning, and.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: Everything's burning and nothing shall remain.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: There are all these photos of Cash after the shooting,
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: just looking confused on his phone like he was the
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: last to get the memo that he got fired, the
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: last to find out about the shooting he was at.
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: He was at you see him with the best. The
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: best is when. So afterwards, right, they go and they're
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: doing this news conference and everyone's there in their tuxes.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: And if you look at Cash Betel behind the president,
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: look and shook, he's like he's coming down off of
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: something like I can't blink, I'm coming down off the high.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: It's true that comed out is really hard for some drugs,
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: so that is the crash out, a crash out Patel,
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: it is.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: He's looking super scared, very nervous. It's like a little anxious.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: I was not ready to be on in a press
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: conference tonight that he was the last to find out
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: about his own stage shooting, and that is and he's
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: also the last to find out that he got fired.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: Because I think it's gonna happen this week.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: Think's gonna happen this week.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: I think by the time this episode airs, he'll be gone.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: So I'm going to look so I'm going to record
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: this as why why do you think that? Because they've
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: already soft launched the exit before the correspondence dinner.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: Do you think that he's going to be really fired
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: fired or do you think that he's going to be
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: re routed.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: I like, I think he'll get fired, like like Christinome,
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: But she didn't.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: Did she get fired? Fired? Did she get rerouted? So
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: fact checked me on that she's doing something else?
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: No, that's her husband's boobies. That's not what she's doing. Byron.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: Byron's doing something else. She was fired, fired, fired, she
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: got fired. You're thinking Pambondy or is it Carolyn Lovit
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: is on maternity.
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: No, No, she's still there. I saw her.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: She's oh yes, but she's getting ready for it. And
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: they're saying that Trump might give the press conferences himself.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: Now, oh that I would watch that. I would watch
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: just to watch the cluster, just the cluster, well.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: Because all the journalists. I love it. They're all trying
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: to they're all trying to get there. You know, they're
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: two minutes of airtime, like, good for them.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: He gets I think she's doing something else.
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: Christine Olmes, Yeah, I really do.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: And I don't know why.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: Get any comments if you know what Christine Home is doing.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: It's just like the Haitian WhatsApp groups.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: She's shooting dogs and hanging out with her husband. I
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: don't know.
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: You know what my mother told me. We should call
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: my mother because she's the one who told me them
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: she has another job.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: She got another job.
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: I swear to God again, I spent a lot of
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: time with my mom and getting all the misinformation from
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: like directly different from Magalie. There you go special on
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: voices the Shield of America. That's what I'm saying, isn't if.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: Someone can tell me what that is, he doesn't.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: I think he doesn't want to like fire fire her, okay,
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: and he wants to rerouted again. You're being put out
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: to pasture for sure, but it's not like you're on
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: the unemployment line. So that's what I'm saying. So do
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: you think that cash will be on the unemployment line
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: or will be rerouted somewhere? I don't know, That's what
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: I'm saying.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: Which one's worse? Do you think fired fired? I think
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: he's still got to like do stuff if he does.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: But it's a way for him to feel like I'm
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: still here.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true. Useful He'll be like and he'll be
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: throwing that title around to get free bottle service, which
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: is what he likes. Yeah, he'll be at every club
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: asking for the.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: Table service, for table service, the good booths like a
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: thousand dollars bottles of crystal.
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: Anyway, this has been the craziest recording. I'm on so
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: many allergy medications.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: I went to CBS.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: It was locked up, wasn't It was hocked.
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: Up Monday at twelve pm. I go to CBS, Hey,
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: can I get the allergy medication with the decongestice.
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: It's always locked behind is with the pharmacist.
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: The pharmacist, They're like, oh, no, the pharmacy's closed.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: What time was it.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: Monday, in the middle of the day.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so CBS, CBS. The pharmacy closes for lunch for
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: like thirty minutes or now.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: I think I've been working my whole life. I don't
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: think I've ever been allowed to take lunch. I don't
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: think I've ever had a lunch break.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: I mean, okay, but CBSCBS does for sure.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: I guess I'm not. I'm buying it once a year.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: I don't really.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: The allergy medication is always locked up and you have
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: to show ID and.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: I asked for too, and he said you got to
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: come back tomorrow for the second one to what So
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: I left and came back a few hours later. Yeah,
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: and then I wanted two boxes, and he said, you
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: can't buy two at once. You have to buy them
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: a day apart. Because if you're.
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: Making the mess, Yeah.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: You're making the mess one day at a time.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: One day at a time.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: You've got to make your small batch.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: Homegrown, artisanal mess.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: You can only make a small batch at a time.
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: That's a local brewery. Anyway, comment with your meth resci
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: people out.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: Do not do that. Do not do that method is
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: bad for you.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: Your body actually needs a little bit.
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: Do not listen to Michael everything in moderation. Michael is
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: a lawyer, he's not a doctor.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: That's true. Yeah, do you lie to your doctor?
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: Which doctor?
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: Any of them? You lie to them?
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: I have I lie to my doctor. It depends on
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: what it is, though.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: And you know what, that's your job to figure out
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: if I'm lying. That should be party of you know
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: who I've lied to?
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: Which is really really.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: That is my heart take, that's my fucked up take.
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: I've lied to my therapist.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: Good for you.
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: I don't want to get into it.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: Do you need to does your therapist tell you anything
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: about your like their life occasionally. Really, yes, that's actually
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: they're not supposed to do that. I don't think.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: I think I've had a few do that, and I
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: think they've been telling me about their life to let
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: me know that some feeling that I'm feeling is normal,
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: if you know what I mean. Yeah, I saw old
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: therapists on the street the other day.
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: Really, it was weird. Did you just start crying?
• 26:18
  Speaker 4: No?
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: I didn't. I texted him later, I was like, I
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: saw you a grandson test I did, and he told
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: me he was on his way to his son's baseball game.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: I texted the therapist once years later, just to let
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: her know that I had done something that I was
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: very afraid of that I worked with her on Okay,
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: and I was like, hey, I just wanted to let
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: you know, like I finally did that thing.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: Was she proud of you?
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: A big one? I did my big one, and I
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: just wanted to let you know, like, hope you're well,
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: Like it wasn't like a hand let's talk.
• 26:48
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And she wrote back because she was like, oh
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: my god, that's so great. I'm so happy to hear it.
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: Like I just wanted to, like, hey, Diva, want you
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: to know that eventually all that blood, sweat inters you
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: put into I eventually got over.
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: The therapist that I saw on the street. I changed
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: my life. He was wonderful.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I did therapists once. Tell me, will you help
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: me pick out a therapist once?
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: Do you remember that I did.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: We were today, yes, and you were like, Michael, you
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: need a gay therapist because you have a black therapist. Yes,
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: And you were like, I don't want to have to
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: explain to a white therapist what it's like being a
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: black woman.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: One has that time.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: And I was like, I don't think I should have
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: to explain you know what it's like.
• 27:27
  Speaker 5: No.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: We were good.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: Melissa and I were scrolling through psychology today no and
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: I was like, how can you? And I was like,
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: well what about this one? And you were like, no,
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: I don't think he's gay. And I showed you one
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: and you went, well he's gay.
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I picked him and he was you're welcome.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: She did enough of a thumbnail about the size of
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: a quarter, I'm telling you. She said, Oh, well, I
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: don't have that time. Carl's gay. An he was good anyway,
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: let's get into under Oath. We've got an incredible guest today.
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: We're excited.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: Stick around, we'll be right back under oath. Welcome back
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: to brief Recess. This is under Oath. We are joined
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: by the incredible Emily Galvin Almonza, who's the co founder
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: and executive director of Partners for Justice. She recently wrote
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: a book titled The Price of Mercy, Unfair Trials of Violence,
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: System and a Public Defender Search for Justice in America.
• 28:28
  Speaker 5: Thank you so much for having me. I'm thrilled to
• 28:29
  Speaker 5: be here.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: Hi, Emily, We're happy to have you, so I'm so
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: excited to have you.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: I've been following your work on social media for quite
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: some time. If you haven't gotten an opportunity to check
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: out Emily and what she's doing on the internet, it's incredible.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: Her book really is extraordinary. It takes us behind closed
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: doors in America's criminal courts, something I'm very familiar with
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: and something we talk about a lot on the show,
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: and it reveals really how the institutions that claim to
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: protect us, that are there to serve justice, are actually
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: doing the exact opposite quite often. It's something that I
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: encounter an immigration court all the time. It's something that
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: I've encountered in my criminal practice. Emily, in your book,
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: you really offer a blueprint for how to fix this right,
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: like how to sort of like move forward. I would
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: just love to hear a little bit about the book
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: and what it sort of covers.
• 29:20
  Speaker 5: Yeah, so you can't do a whole book that's just
• 29:23
  Speaker 5: how bad stuff is. Nobody wants to stick around for that.
• 29:27
  Speaker 5: And in fact, I was trying really consciously to give
• 29:32
  Speaker 5: people foundational knowledge about how bad stuff is so that
• 29:36
  Speaker 5: they can be conversant in all of the ways in
• 29:39
  Speaker 5: which these systems fail us, even if they have been
• 29:42
  Speaker 5: so lucky in their life is to never have interacted
• 29:44
  Speaker 5: with the criminal court system. I wanted them to hear,
• 29:47
  Speaker 5: like soup to nuts, how is it bad? And also
• 29:49
  Speaker 5: how are all the bad pieces working together to make
• 29:52
  Speaker 5: each other worse? Because that's something we often miss out on,
• 29:56
  Speaker 5: is that this is like it's an apparatus, it's machinery.
• 30:00
  Speaker 5: And I wanted to once we've thoroughly depressed people and
• 30:02
  Speaker 5: made them look like fire, then we go into talking
• 30:06
  Speaker 5: about a number of things, which I think some of
• 30:09
  Speaker 5: them could be termed solutions, and some of them are
• 30:11
  Speaker 5: like ameliorations. But the bottom line is the number of
• 30:16
  Speaker 5: ways in which we could do better, build more public safety, better,
• 30:22
  Speaker 5: you know, health and ability to thrive, and also a
• 30:24
  Speaker 5: fair system, a system that puts forth some form of legitimacy.
• 30:28
  Speaker 5: Like the number of ways is stupid? People act like
• 30:31
  Speaker 5: the solutions are so hard to find you they're not.
• 30:34
  Speaker 5: There's like multiple studies showing a number of things would
• 30:37
  Speaker 5: work really really well. We just need political will to
• 30:40
  Speaker 5: do them.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: It's interesting, you know. I mean, I think people find
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: me on social media or have told me that things
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: that they are drawn to about my social media is
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: that I offer what I always offer, and we're always
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: offering out on this show as well, Like what can
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: you do? Like what is the next step? So much
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: of journalism, so much of what gets covered in social
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: media and legacy media, is here's how fucked up everything is?
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: Good luck right, And like you said, I think people
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: we know, we know how better? Oh yeah, we would
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: really like a way out of that. And what can
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: we do as an what can I do as an
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: individual sort of help fix the problem, as opposed to
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: just being like, yep, it sucks to be here, you know.
• 31:22
  Speaker 5: I was just gonna say, people are so hungry for
• 31:23
  Speaker 5: exactly that actionable piece. Yeah, like they want to get
• 31:27
  Speaker 5: up tomorrow and do something which will make a dent
• 31:29
  Speaker 5: in the grimness of the world.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: What facts did you uncover when you were writing this book.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: Take us through some of the really surprising things you learned.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: It's okay if you depress us. We will get into
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: what you can do next, how people can help, how
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: people can channel their anger and use that as impetus
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: to affect change. But talk us through like the things
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: you found as you were looking really hard at the
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: criminal justice system.
• 31:51
  Speaker 5: A lot of this for me was not purely surprising,
• 31:53
  Speaker 5: because I spent ten years as a public defender, and
• 31:56
  Speaker 5: now I work with public defenders all across the country,
• 31:58
  Speaker 5: helping them expand their practice and build sort of more effective,
• 32:02
  Speaker 5: more beautiful forms of public defense. And before that, I
• 32:05
  Speaker 5: was a kid who actually needed to be defended. So
• 32:08
  Speaker 5: I have been on both sides of this. I've been
• 32:11
  Speaker 5: on multiple sides of this, and so going into this
• 32:13
  Speaker 5: work it was a little bit of like downloading everything
• 32:18
  Speaker 5: that I had learned over a lifetime into a set
• 32:21
  Speaker 5: of pages. But what I found the most surprising was that,
• 32:24
  Speaker 5: like in every dark corner that I poked in, I
• 32:28
  Speaker 5: would find something worse than I had actually experienced in practice.
• 32:31
  Speaker 5: So for example, you know, we've all been there. Like
• 32:34
  Speaker 5: I used to practice in a jurisdiction where the cops
• 32:36
  Speaker 5: at are local precinct would clean the mouthpiece on the
• 32:39
  Speaker 5: breathalyzer with an alcohol white before people used it.
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: Okay, oh my god, Oh no, it's alcohol.
• 32:46
  Speaker 5: Wait.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: Alcohol, It's so stupid.
• 32:49
  Speaker 5: But then you know, I do the research and I
• 32:52
  Speaker 5: learned that there's a drug lab in that it was
• 32:55
  Speaker 5: you know, studied and reported the news where the ventilation
• 32:58
  Speaker 5: system was so bad it was literally blowing drugs all
• 33:01
  Speaker 5: over the lab and contaminating every sample. So like, no
• 33:05
  Speaker 5: matter where I thought the floor was the.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: Floor, yeah, it was just it was that horse meat
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: disco is where they were doing all the drug testing.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: I think that that is really it's astounding, right, because
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: you would never it would never didn't even occur to
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: me to wonder, how are they cleaning off the little
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: breathalyzer thing, right, right, And the idea that they would
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: use alcohol.
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: Oh I did. I did a continuing legal education and
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: this was just it was for every type of legal
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: practitioner we have to do legal education like throughout our life.
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: So it was a continuing ad class and the it
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: was it was like eight in the morning and he
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: had someone come up on stage rinse their mouth out
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: with listerine and then do a breathalyzer and it said
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: that they were like anebriated. Right, so like the whole
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: like you're you're right though, once you start sort of
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: picking away at it, it's like an onion. It just
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: kind of has layers and it smells worse the more
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: you can touch it. Yeah. When we were sort of
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: preparing for this interview, we were looking at some of
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: the facts that you uncovered researching this book about how
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: trees in certain neighborhoods affect crime rates. Could you sort
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: of tell us a little bit about that research.
• 34:13
  Speaker 5: I've done this thing to myself. You know how Madonna
• 34:15
  Speaker 5: is always called the material girl and she meets it.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right, yeah, now you're the tree girl.
• 34:19
  Speaker 5: Ever, every time every time there's a cairon, it's like
• 34:22
  Speaker 5: public defender thinks you can fix public safety with trees.
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: Yep. Could you throw that up on the Can you
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: throw that up? CJ? Actually I want to see that.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: And you know what this is on the heels of
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: They just announced in New York City that they want
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: to cover New York City and thirty percent trees by
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: twenty forty. Yeah, I'm so excited, which just announced this weekend.
• 34:41
  Speaker 5: So this is some of the some of the research
• 34:44
  Speaker 5: in the book that I found so thrilling. I mean,
• 34:46
  Speaker 5: that's sort of the twin, the good twin to the
• 34:49
  Speaker 5: evil of finding out that everything was worse than I thought,
• 34:52
  Speaker 5: is that I found a ton of solutions that were
• 34:55
  Speaker 5: just like easier and more available and more immediate than
• 34:59
  Speaker 5: I thought. I think one of my favorite ones is
• 35:00
  Speaker 5: like having an after school program drops youth involvement in
• 35:04
  Speaker 5: crime by fifty percent. Yes, it's like so achievable. But
• 35:07
  Speaker 5: the other things, all of these great environmental design pieces. Now,
• 35:11
  Speaker 5: a lot of the time, the government will put forth
• 35:13
  Speaker 5: this idea that a safe public environment is one that
• 35:16
  Speaker 5: is heavily surveilled. But when we look at the research,
• 35:19
  Speaker 5: we don't actually see surveillance preventing a ton of crime.
• 35:23
  Speaker 5: I mean it's kind of obvious if you put yourself
• 35:25
  Speaker 5: in the place of a person who's considering doing a crime,
• 35:27
  Speaker 5: Like you see a camera, who knows if anybody's watching
• 35:30
  Speaker 5: the other end of that camera. It's just like put
• 35:32
  Speaker 5: on a hat and an N ninety five like whatever.
• 35:35
  Speaker 5: But if a space is occupied or beautiful in a
• 35:40
  Speaker 5: way that suggests the space may become presently occupied by
• 35:44
  Speaker 5: other people, it's just not a good place to do crimes.
• 35:48
  Speaker 5: So then when when you see like this research on
• 35:51
  Speaker 5: if you've got a vacant lot and you turn it
• 35:53
  Speaker 5: into a community garden, crime drops if the community is
• 35:56
  Speaker 5: involved in creating that garden, like if they do it themselves,
• 36:00
  Speaker 5: crime drops even more because the space is more likely
• 36:02
  Speaker 5: to be utilized occupied. Every dilapidated house you fix up
• 36:06
  Speaker 5: drops crime by twenty percent. One of my favorite comparisons
• 36:10
  Speaker 5: is like, if you want to eliminate one homicide using
• 36:14
  Speaker 5: police saturation, you need about seventeen police officers in the
• 36:18
  Speaker 5: vicinity to eliminate one homicide. Okay, wow, But the City
• 36:23
  Speaker 5: of Philly improved street lighting, painted sidewalks, fixed up some
• 36:26
  Speaker 5: dilapidated spaces, and dropped youth homicides by seventy five percent.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: Wow, just by fixing infrastructure, just by fixing up the
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: little structure.
• 36:36
  Speaker 5: And the beautiful thing of is like, even if I'm wrong,
• 36:38
  Speaker 5: even if everything I've written is wrong. We've still built
• 36:41
  Speaker 5: a more beautiful world and the same thing, Like this
• 36:44
  Speaker 5: is the tree thing. The tree thing is kind of
• 36:46
  Speaker 5: my favorite because it's it's well researched, but it's also mysterious.
• 36:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 36:51
  Speaker 5: So like tree. You can take two similarly situated housing complexes, right,
• 36:55
  Speaker 5: they're identical in every way. They've got the same type
• 36:57
  Speaker 5: of people living in them. If one has more trees,
• 37:02
  Speaker 5: the research suggests that that building will have not only
• 37:05
  Speaker 5: less property crime outside the building, but less domestic violence inside. Wow,
• 37:12
  Speaker 5: it's like people behave.
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but do we know why that might be.
• 37:18
  Speaker 5: There's a lot of theories. I mean, one, there's just
• 37:21
  Speaker 5: a behavioral piece, where like people behave differently in beautiful
• 37:24
  Speaker 5: places than they do in ely places. Like that's just
• 37:26
  Speaker 5: a fact like that, it's context, but it's also there's
• 37:29
  Speaker 5: really interesting research connecting beauty with longevity, Like people who
• 37:33
  Speaker 5: live in spaces where they can take in beauty live
• 37:36
  Speaker 5: longer than people who are deprived of that. There's also
• 37:40
  Speaker 5: the pollution factor. I mean, there's a lot of research
• 37:42
  Speaker 5: showing correlation between air pollution and sort of any form
• 37:45
  Speaker 5: of ingested pollution and behavioral impact. Trees, of course, clean
• 37:50
  Speaker 5: our air. A lot of the time, the smog layer
• 37:52
  Speaker 5: is going to hover like in the mid layer of
• 37:54
  Speaker 5: a building. So smog is not going to be worse
• 37:56
  Speaker 5: on the first floor. It's going to be worse a
• 37:58
  Speaker 5: little bit higher up. But that's exactly where you find
• 38:00
  Speaker 5: the tree layer. I mean, so there's nobody can tell
• 38:03
  Speaker 5: you definitively why the trees are making people not like
• 38:07
  Speaker 5: shove their but.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: The evidence is there.
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: We don't exactly know why, but yes, but the evidence
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: is so.
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: We brought you on not as an arborist, but we
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: brought you really to talk about the criminal justice system.
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: But I know it's an interesting sort of talking point,
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: and I get it. Sometimes there are these headlines that
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: linger around our name. I will forever be the guy
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: whose name is on the list of ice lawyers, like
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: the lawyers up against I will always be asked about that.
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: I'm very happy to be asked about that. But you
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: talk a lot about the prison system and how jails
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: actually increase crime, right, And a lot of defense attorneys
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: know this. A lot of people who are insider baseball
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: a part of the criminal justice system understand this. Right
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: When I have a client who was mentally ill who
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: committed a crime because they were experiencing you know, extreme
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: mental illness symptoms psychosis, who then get arrested for a
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: crime and go to prison for a year, their illness
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: gets worse. They're oftentimes learning how to commit more crimes,
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: recidivism rates, learning from other criminals, getting like making friends
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: with other criminals, and then leaving. Now they're on parole,
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: and anytime they do any little thing, they're back in prison.
• 39:24
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: So this is very clear and well documented in so
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: many legal circles. But I think I think the mainstream,
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: everyday person is slowly starting to get socialized to this idea,
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: right exactly.
• 39:36
  Speaker 5: No, So I often, and I take great pleasure saying
• 39:39
  Speaker 5: this as a woman speaking publicly, that like, our current
• 39:42
  Speaker 5: criminal legal policy is very emotional, and I just wish
• 39:45
  Speaker 5: it was more rational in evidence based. Yes, yeah, because
• 39:50
  Speaker 5: it's all based on like who were scared of and
• 39:52
  Speaker 5: who we're mad at, and like, let's do bad stuff
• 39:54
  Speaker 5: that people were mad at and yeah.
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: And you know vengeance, right, let's get them. You know
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: this person did this, let's get.
• 39:59
  Speaker 5: Them exactly, and we get there because that's free political
• 40:04
  Speaker 5: points for lawmakers who don't want to actually do anything.
• 40:07
  Speaker 5: So exactly as you said, right, the multiple studies show
• 40:12
  Speaker 5: us that exposure to incarceration, particularly pre trial incarceration, is criminogenic.
• 40:16
  Speaker 5: The person who's in for seven days is more likely
• 40:19
  Speaker 5: to be re arrested than the person who was in
• 40:21
  Speaker 5: for two days, even if they were identical when they
• 40:25
  Speaker 5: went in. Interesting, and I mentioned those those numbers because
• 40:27
  Speaker 5: when we look at the research they're studying very short
• 40:30
  Speaker 5: periods of exposure to incarceration, it's exactly like you just say,
• 40:35
  Speaker 5: it's not super mysterious. It's a highly violent environment in
• 40:38
  Speaker 5: which people are traumatized, cut off from all of their
• 40:41
  Speaker 5: forms of opportunity and support networks, and often harmed both
• 40:46
  Speaker 5: like personally, psychologically, medically. But if we were making policy
• 40:50
  Speaker 5: that was reflective of the actual evidence, we would make
• 40:53
  Speaker 5: radically different policy choices. The same could be said of
• 40:58
  Speaker 5: you know, you mentioned somebody getting you know, being on
• 40:59
  Speaker 5: parole and then immediately getting pumped back into the system.
• 41:02
  Speaker 5: There's research in the book from a professor at UC
• 41:04
  Speaker 5: Berkeley who studied a naturally occurring experiment in the Midwest
• 41:08
  Speaker 5: which basically a state changed their laws about pretrial or
• 41:11
  Speaker 5: i'm sorry, post release supervision and the period of time
• 41:17
  Speaker 5: during which people had less post release supervision, there was
• 41:21
  Speaker 5: no uptick in crime, but there was a downslope in
• 41:25
  Speaker 5: new prison admissions. As soon as they put that intense
• 41:28
  Speaker 5: supervision back in place, again, no change in crime, but
• 41:33
  Speaker 5: prison admissions pop back up, demonstrating that this form of
• 41:36
  Speaker 5: supervision isn't having any impact on crime. It's just filling prisons.
• 41:41
  Speaker 5: And so if somebody were to look at the evidence,
• 41:43
  Speaker 5: they say, oh, Man, probation and parole aren't really doing
• 41:45
  Speaker 5: a lot in terms, there's like not worth the expense,
• 41:49
  Speaker 5: the massive expense. In some jurisdictions, it can cost literally
• 41:52
  Speaker 5: a million dollars to put a child on probation for
• 41:55
  Speaker 5: one year. It's not worth that when you get no
• 41:58
  Speaker 5: public safety benefit.
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: That's crazy. And I think like a lot of supplementary
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: service provider institutions were shut down for being too expensive. Right,
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: we can look at mental health hospitals that were shut
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: down and just said, let's have the police, let's have
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: the prison system, just take care of those folks, and
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: it'll save us a bunch of federal dollars. But it doesn't.
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: But it doesn't, But it doesn't. And I wonder if
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: I wonder why that information is not pumped out nearly
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: as much as it is. You know, we're going to
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: be hard on crime and we're going to put all
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: these people away when there is evidence that shows us
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: that that's not really how it works, right.
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: I think it's like Emily says, it's emotional. This is
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: emotional behavior. Like we talked about it with Carenn. Like
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: we had a guest on where we talked about the
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: death penalty and how you know people vengeance again down
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: to this like emotional reaction, a victimhood, right, And it's
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: just really psychological it is.
• 43:04
  Speaker 5: But it's also the framing, right, Like, one of the
• 43:09
  Speaker 5: things I'm hoping to achieve with this book is to
• 43:10
  Speaker 5: get people to understand that when a politician stands up
• 43:13
  Speaker 5: there and offers you something tough on crime, yeah, they're
• 43:16
  Speaker 5: offering you the status quo. The status quo is tough
• 43:19
  Speaker 5: on crime. If you like what we already have, yeah,
• 43:22
  Speaker 5: sure keep, you know, keep. The person who wants to
• 43:24
  Speaker 5: change nothing, doesn't want to do better. But if you
• 43:27
  Speaker 5: want to make a commitment when a bad thing happens,
• 43:31
  Speaker 5: you want to do the work to make sure that
• 43:33
  Speaker 5: bad thing doesn't happen. Again, that's the harder work that
• 43:37
  Speaker 5: requires actually looking at the evidence of what makes bad
• 43:40
  Speaker 5: stuff not happen. You can see it specifically in the
• 43:42
  Speaker 5: emotional policy offerings of a lot of lawmakers, like fentanyl, right, yeah,
• 43:46
  Speaker 5: you So many lawmakers are like, I'm going to increase
• 43:48
  Speaker 5: the sentencings that if you, you know, have to sell
• 43:50
  Speaker 5: a bag it's got fentanyl in it, you're gonna get
• 43:52
  Speaker 5: ten more years. Nobody is on the corner looking at
• 43:56
  Speaker 5: the bags they have and being like, well.
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: Let me test this right, double check. Yeah.
• 44:02
  Speaker 5: People think they sell when they think they're not going
• 44:04
  Speaker 5: to get caught.
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So, you.
• 44:06
  Speaker 5: Know, likelihood of intervention, a number of resources. We have
• 44:10
  Speaker 5: to not put people in an economic position where selling
• 44:12
  Speaker 5: drugs is legitimately the best option available. Like these are
• 44:15
  Speaker 5: things that actually lower the likelihood of fentanyl being sold.
• 44:19
  Speaker 5: But that's harder work and it takes a longer time scale.
• 44:22
  Speaker 5: So we need a voting public that's willing to demand
• 44:25
  Speaker 5: that and also stick with the longer time scale before
• 44:27
  Speaker 5: they see the results.
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: Who is like nailing it right now? Like is there
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: a jurisdiction, is there a state? Is there is there
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: a mayor, is there a town that is kind of
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: doing what we want to see more.
• 44:40
  Speaker 5: Of a bunch. Yeah, a bunch, there's a bunch. They're
• 44:44
  Speaker 5: all doing different things. So, for example, Baltimore has done
• 44:48
  Speaker 5: a really good job of investing in community violence, interruption
• 44:52
  Speaker 5: and like community services that can make it less likely
• 44:55
  Speaker 5: that people will get involved in violence in the first place.
• 44:58
  Speaker 5: Chicago also had a really good hits with cb I
• 45:00
  Speaker 5: in a ships see the I, by the way, is
• 45:02
  Speaker 5: the first thing in our sector that this administration cut.
• 45:07
  Speaker 5: It was like the first thing when when DJ Granzi
• 45:10
  Speaker 5: and it's it's suspicious because it was that in victim
• 45:14
  Speaker 5: services and like both community violence and interruption and victim
• 45:17
  Speaker 5: services are ways of like helping people heal so that
• 45:20
  Speaker 5: gun violence doesn't happen. So interesting to watch those get
• 45:24
  Speaker 5: immediately trashed. But you know, Colorado got rid of qualified
• 45:28
  Speaker 5: immunity for police officers. I love this because when you
• 45:31
  Speaker 5: talk about it, people are like, you could never get
• 45:33
  Speaker 5: rid of qualified immunity. That'll never happen. I'll ever pass.
• 45:36
  Speaker 5: Everybody would see the police would be a disaster, And
• 45:38
  Speaker 5: like Colorado just did it and they're fine.
• 45:41
  Speaker 4: And the.
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: Day, yeah, exactly, life went on.
• 45:48
  Speaker 5: California and Washington, and like a couple of other states
• 45:51
  Speaker 5: have dealt with the problem of how our kids get railroaded.
• 45:56
  Speaker 5: This is something that like every parent should know. Kids
• 46:00
  Speaker 5: should not talk to police alone. Children will waive their
• 46:04
  Speaker 5: right to counsel ninety percent of the time. Yeah, and
• 46:08
  Speaker 5: over a third of them will falsely confess to a
• 46:10
  Speaker 5: crime they did not do, and that number gets higher
• 46:13
  Speaker 5: the younger they are, or if they think they're covering
• 46:15
  Speaker 5: for a friend. So basically, none of us should want
• 46:19
  Speaker 5: our children talking to police alone, because one it's terrible
• 46:22
  Speaker 5: for the children, but two, like we're not getting any
• 46:24
  Speaker 5: accurate information out of it, like they're just they're just
• 46:26
  Speaker 5: doing they're confessing to stuff they didn't do. So California, Washington,
• 46:30
  Speaker 5: a few other states have passed laws that just say, like,
• 46:33
  Speaker 5: if the police want to talk to a child, the
• 46:34
  Speaker 5: child has to have a lawyer present, period, And of
• 46:37
  Speaker 5: they don't have to invoke they don't have to know
• 46:38
  Speaker 5: the magic words.
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: And just for illustration, I would like to share with
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: folks an anecdote of like a what is it like
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: an exacto knife? A client's a minor had an exacto
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: knife and the cops frisked frisked. My client found this
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: exact do knife, which is oftentimes needed for like school projects.
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: And the cops said, is the sewers And client said yes,
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: and this kid they said, oh is this you know?
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: He said it's for school and the cops said, yeah,
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: you probably need this for protection for the crazy people
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: on these streets too. Right, client says, yes to that,
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: you've admitted to intent to use that as a weapon.
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: These are not kids who are I think when people
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: hear that and hear you say, oh, every kid should
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: know this, they're thinking kids in inner city youth. We've
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: got inner city youth who are oftentimes coming in contact
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: with drugs and weapons. No, it can be something as
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: simple as a pen. Oh do you need this just
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: in case a homeless guy jumps you? Yeah, I guess. Okay,
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: you just admitted to intent to use this as a weapon,
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: and that is a crime. Right, So I think people,
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: I just to show people that this isn't this isn't
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: your kids slinging bags on the corner.
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: No, no, no, you know what, I really I remember this.
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: You know, I was a young person doing that such
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: a park five right where these were all young boys
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: and they didn't they wouldn't let them call their parents,
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: they didn't have attorneys with them, and they managed to
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: somehow manipulate these young boys into admitting to something that
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: they had not done. And these boys were punished, they
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: went to jail, and their lives were, you know, permanently
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: changed because of it. Only to find out decades later
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: that they had not done this thing, but because they
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: had been alone with the police who were asking them, so,
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: this is the first time you had done this, and
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: he was like, yeah, I guess this is the first
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: time I had done that, and before you knew it,
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: they had sort of railroad. Absolutely. The other thing is
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: like we have always told children, especially that the police
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: officer is your friend, trust them, call the cops if
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: you need help, Call the cops if you need help.
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: And only to realize now that especially I think black
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: and brown children right are in front of these police
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: officers and now they are sort of, like you said,
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: manipulating the information. And now these boys, these children are
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: sort of allowing themselves to be put in this position
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: where there's no one to help them, and now they're
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: sort of admitted to something that they really didn't do.
• 49:26
  Speaker 5: And it's so isolating. To. I mean, so many the
• 49:29
  Speaker 5: kids I represented exactly like you say, for stupid stuff,
• 49:32
  Speaker 5: you know, possession of a screwdriver that's a burglary tool,
• 49:35
  Speaker 5: possession of a pen that's a graffiti tool. You know,
• 49:38
  Speaker 5: like these stupid cases. Oftentimes I might meet them when
• 49:42
  Speaker 5: they were fourteen, but the first time they were followed
• 49:45
  Speaker 5: home by a police officer or stopped or questioned or
• 49:48
  Speaker 5: frisked or criminalized was when they were eight or nine.
• 49:51
  Speaker 5: And largely this is the adultification of black boys and
• 49:54
  Speaker 5: the hyper surveillance of black and brown neighborhoods. And it's
• 49:58
  Speaker 5: not like the other kids at school have the privilege
• 50:00
  Speaker 5: to not have that happen to them necessarily know that's
• 50:03
  Speaker 5: going on, and so kids often can't turn to each
• 50:07
  Speaker 5: other either. That's actually my next project, after the Price
• 50:09
  Speaker 5: of Mercy, is that this fall, I have a book
• 50:12
  Speaker 5: coming out called Andromeda Das and the Reasonable Doubt, which
• 50:16
  Speaker 5: is a book about a little girl whose parents are
• 50:18
  Speaker 5: public defenders, who knows how to defend her friends when
• 50:21
  Speaker 5: they are accused of things.
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: That's full.
• 50:22
  Speaker 5: So it's an attempt to teach kids about we can
• 50:25
  Speaker 5: talk about this. This is happening to more than just
• 50:29
  Speaker 5: you. You are not alone, and there are ways you can
• 50:32
  Speaker 5: protect yourself, in ways you can protect each other and
• 50:34
  Speaker 5: be kind to each other and treat accusation with skepticism.
• 50:38
  Speaker 5: So I'm hoping to like reach until the states can
• 50:41
  Speaker 5: pass totally reasonable law that gives everything counsel. I'm trying
• 50:45
  Speaker 5: to teach the kids how to invoke.
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: That's great. Yeah, I think that's great. And how can
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: people like be a part of this right? How can
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: people be a part of this change? Fans of the show,
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: people who find us on social media, like, what are
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: some of these reform ideas that are hopeful that people
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: can kind of throw their way behind.
• 51:01
  Speaker 5: So, first of all, I love that I can say
• 51:04
  Speaker 5: you don't have to pay attention to the federal government
• 51:06
  Speaker 5: as much on this particular subject matter. Okay, so much
• 51:10
  Speaker 5: of the eight like eighty seven percent of people who
• 51:13
  Speaker 5: are in prison are there on state and local cases. Okay,
• 51:16
  Speaker 5: So mostly the policy changes we're looking for are policy
• 51:20
  Speaker 5: changes brought about by local das, states attorneys, local lawmakers,
• 51:25
  Speaker 5: county boards of supervisors, sheriffs. So the number of people
• 51:31
  Speaker 5: that it takes to push one of these elections to
• 51:34
  Speaker 5: a more decarsoral or smarter direction is fairly low. Also,
• 51:38
  Speaker 5: like local initiatives can do so much. There's a program,
• 51:41
  Speaker 5: though totally volunteer program that I cover in the book
• 51:43
  Speaker 5: called Dads on Duty, where a bunch of guys just
• 51:46
  Speaker 5: got like really sick of their kids having police encounters
• 51:48
  Speaker 5: at school, and so they had t shirts made that
• 51:50
  Speaker 5: said Dad's on duty, and they started like patrolling the halls,
• 51:53
  Speaker 5: and when a kid was like doing knucklehead stuff, they'd
• 51:55
  Speaker 5: give them a look and the knucklehead stuff would stop,
• 51:58
  Speaker 5: and so incidents and arrests of the school. So like
• 52:00
  Speaker 5: we can do so we don't have to wait for permission.
• 52:02
  Speaker 5: Like you can form a like Grandma's on duty at
• 52:05
  Speaker 5: your school. You can court watch. You can go sit
• 52:08
  Speaker 5: in the courtroom so that if there's a judge who's
• 52:10
  Speaker 5: going to be absolutely cruel to the people who appear
• 52:12
  Speaker 5: in front of them, like they might not do it
• 52:14
  Speaker 5: in front of you, particularly if you have a notebook,
• 52:17
  Speaker 5: you can demand. This is one of my favorites. We
• 52:19
  Speaker 5: often feel really helpless about bad policing, and people who
• 52:23
  Speaker 5: work in policing feel helpless about that too. There are
• 52:26
  Speaker 5: so many police leaders who wish they could fire the
• 52:29
  Speaker 5: bad actors in their department. But because ninety eight percent
• 52:32
  Speaker 5: of union contracts contain a provision that says you can't
• 52:35
  Speaker 5: fire the bad guys like they're stuck. But prosecutors can
• 52:41
  Speaker 5: use something called they do not Call list, where the
• 52:43
  Speaker 5: prosecutor basically says, you do whatever you want police department.
• 52:46
  Speaker 5: But if your officers are credibly found to have engaged
• 52:49
  Speaker 5: in like lying to the public in you know, lying
• 52:52
  Speaker 5: about the public test a, lying or mistreating the public violence,
• 52:56
  Speaker 5: I'm simply not going to use that cop in any
• 52:59
  Speaker 5: of my cases. And what's great about that is if
• 53:01
  Speaker 5: the cop can't be used in a prosecution, they're essentially used.
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're paper.
• 53:07
  Speaker 5: Exactly. They get benched immediately. So like you can go
• 53:09
  Speaker 5: to your local DA and be like, why don't you
• 53:11
  Speaker 5: have this policy? Why do you want to use bad cops?
• 53:13
  Speaker 5: I love them, not use bad cops. There's so much
• 53:15
  Speaker 5: we can do locally.
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: Fac I love that really, Really, that's really cool.
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: And what I love what you're talking about really is people.
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: I get this all the time, right, like what can
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: I do? How can I help? And I always try
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: to empower people with like small tools that they can
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: do with fifty followers on Instagram, right, like you need
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: you don't need like a huge platform to affect change.
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: And oftentimes, like you say, it is on these really
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: small local levels like the mom's Facebook group. How can
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: you pressure someone? So I love hearing that. When does
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: your next book come out? Like? What is there anything
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: you'd like to plug? We talked a bit about your book.
• 53:53
  Speaker 5: Yeah, so the book is the Price of Mercy. If
• 53:54
  Speaker 5: you like solutions like these, you can check it out.
• 53:56
  Speaker 5: It's available everywhere books are sold. In September, you could
• 54:00
  Speaker 5: expect the arrival of Andromeda Diaz. And if you have
• 54:03
  Speaker 5: a middle grade reader in your life, and you would
• 54:05
  Speaker 5: like that middle grade reader, like my daughter say to
• 54:08
  Speaker 5: her local school cop, I want to remain silent, and
• 54:11
  Speaker 5: I want a lawyer. Every time he tries to talk
• 54:13
  Speaker 5: to me about that's, get of a copy.
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: Of It's It's really true. And I think you know,
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't have known what to say if a police
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: officer approached me as a kid.
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: So, I mean, we have to how did you sort
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: of get into this work? I'm just so curious.
• 54:26
  Speaker 5: Simily, Well, I had a really rough time of it
• 54:28
  Speaker 5: as a young person for a period that culminated me
• 54:33
  Speaker 5: getting arrested and coming before a judge who was a
• 54:36
  Speaker 5: legendary advocate for young people in Massachusetts, Judge Leslie Harris,
• 54:41
  Speaker 5: who I write about in the book. And then because
• 54:45
  Speaker 5: of him and his determination to see potential in children
• 54:49
  Speaker 5: instead of seeing threat, I was able to go onto
• 54:52
  Speaker 5: college in law school, and in my first year criminal
• 54:56
  Speaker 5: law class, I thought, Man, I really connect with these
• 54:58
  Speaker 5: pass I don't know why to think too hard about that.
• 55:01
  Speaker 5: It's not that I've done the crime, It's just that
• 55:04
  Speaker 5: I like these stories. So I took a job at
• 55:06
  Speaker 5: the La County Public Defender that summer, and I started
• 55:09
  Speaker 5: walking into rooms with kids who were not that much
• 55:11
  Speaker 5: younger than me and had done stuff that I had
• 55:14
  Speaker 5: literally done that. They were black and brown and East
• 55:17
  Speaker 5: La and I had not been. And I've been so
• 55:20
  Speaker 5: angry about that for since. Sure that I've just never stopped.
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: But isn't it wonderful though? That I mean, because this
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: could have gone wrong for you if he did not
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: happen to be in front of this particular judge who
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: truly cared about what happens to kids. And I mean
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: I think that, I don't mean, I don't know when
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: people are in certain positions if they really understand sort
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: of the power that they have and how they could
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: use their power for good.
• 55:46
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: I mean I hate to say to say things like
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: that because sounds so cheesy, but you know, because if
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: you had gone before a judge who was a different animal,
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: you would be in a completely different place right now.
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: So this is what we need. We need more people
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: like this judge.
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 56:00
  Speaker 5: No, I was able to write him years later, when
• 56:04
  Speaker 5: I'd become a public defender and I'd represented like thousands
• 56:07
  Speaker 5: of people because case loads are way too high. I
• 56:09
  Speaker 5: was able to write it and be like, you know, hey,
• 56:11
  Speaker 5: like all of my cases are your grand cases.
• 56:13
  Speaker 3: Congratulations, I've got all these dispositions.
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think that that's I mean, those stories
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: like that are what give us hope because we're looking
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: at a landscape that feels sometimes really dismal, and it
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: feels like we don't know what to do everything. Everything
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: feels terrible sometimes, But when you hear a story like this,
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: you're like, you know what, everything is not terrible. We
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: can sort of invoke change if we if we try.
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: But I also love what Emily said about like letting
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: anger propel you. I think literally everyone is angry right now,
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: And I hear it in every single DM. I get.
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: People are angry, they're upset, they are reacting to you
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: know what I'm talking about and headlines, And every time
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: that happens, I'm not like, oh man, I mean this
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: person agree. I'm like, hell yeah, Like if you're mad,
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: like it means something good is happening, right, Like you're
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: alive inside, you're fired up. I don't think anyone ever
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: like invoked change from a place of emotional uh like.
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: Calm distance, emotional distance, Like I think.
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: I think all change and like revolutionary radical change in
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: the world came about because we were something.
• 57:30
  Speaker 5: Was secretly furious living.
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: So I just I love to hear that, like this
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: anger from your youth really propelled you through this extraordinary
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: career and into this change. So I love to hear that.
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: And I think that is hopeful, right, like helpful about
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: I'm like, hell yeah, make emotional decisions. I love that.
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: I also think the other the other sort of message
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: of hope is that realizing that there are some things
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: that you could do at the grassroots level within your
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: own community that could potentially make a huge difference unity
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: garden planting, more trees and more. People need to hear
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: those things, and they also need to have the information
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: that you have, right, like the statistics, the numbers. Show
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: us the numbers, because I think if I were to
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: go to somebody like my husband, for example, who's kind
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: of a cynic, right, and I would say, you know,
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: today I learned that if you plant more trees in
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: a community, crime goes down, he'd be like, really, but
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: but I But if I were to show him the
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: numbers for him, that would make the difference. And I
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: think we need to sort of tell people these stories
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: but also provide the numbers behind it, what are the
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: stats behind it, because people need to hear that as well.
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: Otherwise it just seems like sort of airy fairy stuff.
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 58:42
  Speaker 5: Literally one hundred pages of the book is citations. And
• 58:45
  Speaker 5: the reason is because as a public defender, like I know,
• 58:48
  Speaker 5: no one's going to take my word for stuff.
• 58:50
  Speaker 3: Exactly what you need to need you need, you need
• 58:54
  Speaker 3: the receipts, you need the recepts.
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you, Emily. Where can people find you on
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: social media? What's your hand? And all?
• 59:00
  Speaker 5: We'll throw it up on the stag at Galvan Almanza
• 59:02
  Speaker 5: on pretty much everything Instagram, Twitter, blue scribe, blue sky,
• 59:07
  Speaker 5: you name it all right?
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: Well, thank you so much, Emily. This is great.
• 59:10
  Speaker 5: Thanks for having me. You guys really appreciate it.
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: Okay, well this is tells from the dms. These are
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: all the weird, wild, freaky, deeky, crazy, lascibious, licentious, scandalous,
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: salacious things you send me and Melissa on the internet.
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: Friends, What do I always say? While Michael is a lawyer,
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: he's not your lawyer, so you should probably look into
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: getting your own.
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: But you can hire me. I'm for hiring.
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: It's cheap.
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: Bogo. Did you know the word for sale in Sweden?
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: I went to Sweden It's slut spurt. So all these stories,
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: it was like.
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: Let's let's look that up and put that in the notes.
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: Because Michael is also known to be a liar to.
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: The Swedish people say in the comments, it's let's right,
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: Somebody from Sweden reached out to me. Actually, that's so funny.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: And she wanted to know the lipstick that I was wearing.
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: What is it?
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: Tralla, No it was?
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: Did you tell her?
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 3: No?
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: I did, Yes, I did tell her what it was,
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: but unfortunately it did not have a cool name like
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: vicious Trollope.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: Okay from the DMS from the Santa Con episode. People
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: want to know Corey Johnson's seven four four four Okay,
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: but drop the sweatshirt link, Melissa from your Taurus sweatshirt.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: I'm so sorry. Somebody a bunch of other people asked
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: me about it, and I don't remember where I bought them.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: A friend of mine bought them for us. She's a Libra.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: I'm a Taurus, right, but I don't remember, but I
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: promise I will look into it. I know that it
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: was a black owned company that we saw on Instagram.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is and this is the problem. If
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: you do love our show, you are following two influencers
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: over the age of thirty five. So we are likely
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: going to forget where things come from. We're going to
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: forget the link like it just comes with the territory.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: So if you want quick links, follow a twenty two
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: year old.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: Sorry, friends, but I will look.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: Do you want to read one?
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: Sure? Okay? This is I really love this because I
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: agreed completely From Zach Tanner seventeen. America just needs to restart.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: Maybe someone should see if Trump can try and unplug
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: the country and plug it back in. Seriously, though, our
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: government is the worst.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: Something you would say to me, I would call you.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: You would say that.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: Control all delete, let's just start over. Everything is terrible.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: It's a deep, poor cleanse. I do feel like if
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: you ever you know, doesn't do shower, like when you
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: get home from a bar or something. Yes, yeah, I shower,
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: I do the full, I do the you have to
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: do everything shower, you need everything shower.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's disgusting outside.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay. From Katie Bites, she writes, high deep, high depots.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: I've been summoned for jury duty and I'd rather not
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: any outfit tip to ensure I'm not the chosen one. Yes,
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: really you have one idea?
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean I can just so. I think that
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: if you if you don't want to be chosen for
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: a jury, I suggest that you go on social media
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: and look for somebody who was trying out outfits to
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: wear to Coachella, and that's that will get you out
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: of it. For show, there were two girls.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: Who were making fun of uh Coachella influencers and going
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: to Coachella, and they were like, get ready with me
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: to go to Coachella, and I'm with me I'm shopping
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: at Marshall's and they did this whole like Marshall's thing.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: Marshall saw it and sent them to Coachella.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: I'm sure they did. Listen, get it. Good for you.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: It's really amazing to me how people. Oh my voice
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: is going, okay.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: Okay, she was silenced by Marshals okay. Sarah Newman wrote,
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: do you have a possible question for the pod? I'm
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: a licensed professional counselor in Texas and our grulish up
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: a lot recently.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: I love that. Actually, go ahead.
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: Sorry, recently updated our Health and Safety Code to prohibit
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: my profession from facilitating treatment to trans youth as our
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: license classifies us as healthcare providers. Interesting, he has classified
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: gender affirming care for minors as child abuse in the state. Wow,
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: all right, Texas. With the recent Supreme Court ruling that
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: therapy has protected speech, it seems states can no longer
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: prohibit a therapeutic approach by targeting the ideas expressed in session.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: Could the Supreme Court ruling be applied here? Yes, it
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: could be. That is like my legal sort of understanding.
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: It could be applied. However, it would have to go
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: up and be fully litigated. By the Supreme Court. So
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: this is something that would have to work through the
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: court system, probably for a couple of years. And there
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: are like activist law firms and attorneys who take those
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: types of cases and will file suit in order to
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: you know, sort of litigate that although to the Supreme
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: Court and get a decision. But it is going to
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: take some time. But I'm sorry, you're going you have
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: to handle that. I mean, anyone who has to work.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: With I mean, just the idea that providing therapy, gender
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: firm and care for a child and is considered child abuse.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: Even just therapy. It's not even like hormone block it's
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: not even puberty blockers. It's nothing. It's literally just God
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: ruling that therapy is protected speech. It could no longer
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: it is technically, yeah, would be covered under the First Amendment,
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: So I under I mean, it's a sound legal argument.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: I think it will get worked through and the law
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: will probably be held on constitutional at some point, but
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: just not yet. Okay, We're going to read probably the
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: craziest email I've gotten, one that is so crazy we
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: had to run it past the legal department twice myself
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: as part of the one of the lawyers reviewing it.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: We sent it to legal. I have a language I'm
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: allowed to use when we discuss it. But it's next
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: week and it's a out the Gay Panic Defense episode.
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: It is insider tea. It is hot, goss, it is
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: it is nasty, it's freaky.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: It is let the record reflect that when when it
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: came up. When it came up, I was just like.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: Sure, and I was like, it's fine, let's do it.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: I was like, okay, because you're the lawyer.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: But hard cut to legal getting involved. And since I
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: said I'm a lawyer, I never said I was a
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: good one. And Melissa saying, I told you so, I
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: told you you did the I told you I told
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: you so.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: Dance, I told you so. I told you so.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: All Right, let's get out of here. That was tales
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: from the DMS. We'll see you next week when we
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: talk about that weird crazy email we got. I can't.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: I can't, I honestly can't. I want to.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: You can't.
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 4: Wait.
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: Well, I'll do it next week and I'll give it
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: the full segment. A dramatic reading, yes, and.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: A dramatic reading.
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: Local warm ups. Okay, I'll see you in court. Just
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: Michael not you never me. This has been an Exactly
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: Right production recorded at iHeart Studios, hosted by Me, Michael Foot, and.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: Me Melissa Albrant. Our producer is CJ. Ferroni.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: This episode was edited by Nicholas Galucci.
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain and our guest booker
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: is Patria Cottner.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: Our theme song was composed by Tom Brifogel, with artwork
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: from Charlotte Delarue Manessa Lilac with photography by Brad Obono.
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: Brief Recess is executive produced by Karen Kilgareff, Georgia hart Stark,
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: and Danielle Kramer.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: You can find me on Instagram at Department of Redundancy
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: Department or on TikTok at Michael Foot.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: And I'm on both Instagram and TikTok as Melissa Malbranch.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: Got legal questions, reach out at brief Recess at exactlyrightmedia
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: dot com. Listen to Brief Recess on the iHeartRadio app,
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts, and of
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: course we're a podcasts with video. Search for Brief Recess
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: on YouTube