Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Paul Arthur about his choice of Invasion of the Dinosaurs (6/6)

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Talks to Paul Arthur about his choice of Invasion of the Dinosaurs (6/6) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:36
Hello there, Paul, and welcome to Dinosaur Appreciation class.
0:42
Now, for the last five episodes, I've been showing you a series
0:46
of stills and video images of dinosaurs in their unnatural
0:52
habitats. Now please, I wish I wondered,
0:56
you've been paying attention and so please could you detail all
1:00
the dinosaurs that you have seen to date?
1:04
Well, I certainly can do that for you, Joe.
1:06
And I would like to thank you for the, the many and varied
1:09
lessons that that we've had. I I must say though, I I do feel
1:14
that perhaps some of the dinosaur action we have seen, it
1:18
hasn't always been the most realistic, should we say?
1:23
I would prefer. Pure fact.
1:24
I'm afraid it's it's only what they look like.
1:27
Oh, is that is that so? So the T Rex can't turn around.
1:32
It has to sort of back out of a back out.
1:34
Ever seen and seems to have two big black bogeys hanging over
1:37
his nose. You've been fooled all these
1:39
years by CGI, but I'm here to tell you now that documented
1:43
evidence proved that Tyrannosaurus rexes looked like
1:47
they were made out of Papi Amache.
1:49
Right. OK, yes.
1:51
I mean, that's exciting scientific revelations.
1:57
You know, I've very much enjoyed from your lesson.
1:59
So thank you very much for having me, Joe.
2:00
You paid a heavy stipend, you know, to have this class, so
2:05
I've yet to hear you detail a single dinosaur.
2:08
Oh well, I've talked about Mr. T Rex and we've also seen the
2:12
lovely snappy, snappy Pterodactyl who was definitely
2:16
afraid of a mop and can't deal with confined spaces such as
2:21
cupboards. We have seen and we will see a
2:26
Diplodocus having its neck nibbled on quite shortly and
2:30
which is very, very exciting. We've seen a triceratops down in
2:36
the in the subway who loves to stare at the flares and then
2:41
that. By which I mean the torches
2:43
being held by the Brigadier and not Sarah Jane's denim trousers.
2:49
Is that everyone, Stegosaurus? You said that one.
2:52
Oh, did he? Yes.
2:53
Yeah, we did see the very beginning, didn't we?
2:55
He was hanging around the back of some industrial plant thing.
2:59
Yes, absolutely. This the the silly one which the
3:02
doctor tried to tried to capture with Pat Gorman and failed
3:06
miserably because of T Rex. Oh, a little fellow with his
3:09
stumpy arms turned up to to ruin the day.
3:12
So yeah, I mean, we have seen all of the dinosaurs, I think.
3:17
And the instant effects, you know, of bringing dinosaurs into
3:22
a future time, yeah, is to make the very naturalistic
3:27
environment that they're in appear to be a sort of painted
3:31
backdrop, You know, that's a, that's a pure fact, that is.
3:35
Yeah, exactly. You know, the just the
3:37
juxtaposition of the, the, you know, the anachronistic dinosaur
3:43
into the modern landscape renders the modern landscape
3:46
completely 2 dimensions. Yeah, it's quite a stunning
3:51
effect really. I hope you feel as if the money
3:55
that you've paid for this was well spent.
3:57
The the stipend was was well spent, yes.
4:01
Well, I can promise you now. Some bloody dinosaur on dinosaur
4:07
action in this episode. It's really going to hot up,
4:10
isn't it? Yeah.
4:11
And the the sheer dynamism of a Jeep being driven underneath
4:18
Stegosaurus is undercarriage. Wow, You know what I mean.
4:22
You would never see that on Jurassic Park, would you?
4:25
You just wouldn't see it. I mean, they wouldn't even
4:27
attempt it. Staggering, absolutely
4:31
staggering, and genuinely is really good.
4:34
It's great. Should we go in?
4:37
Yeah, absolutely. See how good you've got to go
4:39
along with this bullshit to episode 6 then.
4:43
Would you care to count us in? Yeah, absolutely.
4:46
OK, for the one last time, let's do it then.
4:48
So we're going to go in in 321. Off we go.
4:56
Truly. I mean, I've said the word
4:58
fabulous about 900 times in this commentary, but Goddess is a
5:01
great story. It really is.
5:03
It really is. If there's any doubt by now,
5:08
it's safe to say that both me and Joe really, really love this
5:10
one. We and and I think we're pretty
5:13
positive by the dinosaurs. I think a lot of it works
5:16
really, really well And and even when it doesn't, it's fun at
5:19
least. Isn't it like that T Rex is is
5:21
really fun now? You said, you know, that there
5:23
was no more space for twists in this, didn't you?
5:26
That everybody sort of all the big twists have been revealed?
5:29
Yeah, well, I've got a surprise for you, Paul Arthur, true
5:34
mastermind behind Operation Golden Age.
5:38
You know, of which Sir Charles Grover himself was even
5:42
subservient too. Was Dylan Reece from Too Hot for
5:46
TV? Well that does explain a hell of
5:50
a lot, but my my jaw is on the floor.
5:53
You know, Yeah. Oh, look at him.
5:56
Oh boy. Oh boy.
5:57
He's been shot on film. Now look.
6:01
Oh my words. This is great and like.
6:04
Brontosaurus. Bronze, I mean, Diplodocus,
6:09
whatever you want. Yeah.
6:10
Isn't there like a bunch of different names from.
6:11
I don't know why I can't keep up.
6:13
I wish they could just sort of kick, you know, the the signs
6:17
and stuff as they go past. So it'd be very fun because he
6:20
hasn't a bit of damage. Yeah, some collateral damage
6:22
that would be so I'm gonna but I love that shot over the
6:24
shoulder, the T Rex in the shadow and oh, when he.
6:28
Comes. Oh boy, yeah.
6:30
And like we said, didn't I? Said the last one, Part 5.
6:33
There's not a lot of Dino action, but they stock it to
6:36
restrict at the beginning of this one.
6:38
I mean this is basically dinosaur 4 player if I'm honest.
6:41
Get your jaw straight in his neck and make him bleed.
6:45
That's it. Gigi often whack Mark around the
6:49
the side with you his big your big tail like this.
6:51
A very personal question, but sorry.
6:54
And politics. More like the halfway round,
6:56
really. You know, I'm usually the
6:58
Promptosaurus. He's the T Rex.
7:03
I thought John Bowie was doing great.
7:06
Good grief, there's two dinosaurs fighting reaction.
7:09
Shot. Brilliant, Brilliant.
7:10
Then look, it comes straight around the corner and oh fuck,
7:13
there's the army. Right.
7:15
But this is great. We've had two big dinosaurs
7:17
going at it and now we get the Brigadier and and General Finch
7:20
going at it. So again, it's the two Alphas is
7:22
like another little battle of the alphas here.
7:25
This has definitely been shot at dusk, hasn't it?
7:28
There's a lovely golden light to this scene.
7:31
Yeah. I think actually this was shot
7:32
at the same time as that scene with the stegosaurus in Part 1
7:36
or Part 2. I can't remember that.
7:38
Yeah, Part 2 is, you know, that that bit we talked about.
7:40
So it's the same location. And I think they just shot this
7:43
bit later in the day. But it looks gorgeous, doesn't
7:45
it? The sort of the sky behind them.
7:47
Oh my God, Benton's pulling a machine gun on the.
7:51
Yeah, yeah. Is there a proper Dick waving
7:53
thing here? Isn't it like, you know, it is a
7:56
real battle of the alphas, just like the dinosaur battle.
7:58
I think that's it. That's really cool.
8:00
And finish backing down. Yeah, brilliant stuff.
8:03
Brigadier is back on our side. Core.
8:06
This location work is crisp, isn't it?
8:08
It looks gorgeous. I see it back in your Jeep.
8:11
General. You're beaten.
8:13
Did you notice Pertway, when the general came up in this car, he
8:16
just had his hands on his hips. Right now you don't intimidate
8:19
me. Yeah.
8:22
Don't you know who I am? I'm John Pertway, all right.
8:25
Bloody dogs are bleeding near me mate.
8:28
Oh, that's it. The gang's back together again.
8:30
All we need is Sarah Jane. Oh bugger it, she's back at all.
8:33
Oh, no, yeah. Put in this dank old room.
8:37
Yeah, and about to be back in a, in a ventilation shaft, which
8:40
seems to be a, you know, a second home for Sarah Jane in
8:42
many ways. I mean, look what she's been put
8:44
in a room there with a load of things to climb up, a load of
8:48
rope and a ventilation shaft. I mean, it's all the Doctor Who
8:51
get outs. Right.
8:52
It's like an episode of The A-Team.
8:53
She's going to fashion a secret weapon to get out of there.
8:57
I would never have died in the 18 did they really annoyed me.
9:00
Lots of things blew up, but nobody ever died that.
9:03
Was that was Yeah. Well, been there.
9:05
Was sadly tea time actually supposed to do with people dying
9:08
at tea time? That's.
9:08
Why Doctor Who was the best? I mean he had that man in
9:11
episode 1 all mangled up by his car.
9:14
Exactly. Yeah, yeah, we've always been a
9:17
bit more a bit more bloody in the Uki think.
9:21
So we've had the dinosaur fight, then we've had the stand off,
9:24
now we have Yeats coming in like it's one thing after another.
9:27
Yeah, yeah, yeah, maybe. Maybe it's later.
9:33
No, it's, it's in a second. Yeah, because the the the
9:36
Brigadier is still a bit incredulous, Doesn't believe
9:38
that Sony doesn't believe Yeats is involved, but he's just
9:41
getting his head round Grover and Finch being involved.
9:45
Thank you Brigadier, you've been duped by everyone in this.
9:48
World now that I can't believe. Are they talking about Yeats
9:55
now? No.
9:56
They're talking about Yeats. Yeah, yeah.
9:58
That he's been acting a bit itchy hasn't.
10:00
He's a bit. Yeah, exactly.
10:01
Yeah. And so like all, as I say, all
10:04
of the people that they kind of known bits and Sarah's known
10:07
bits, the Doctor's known bits, but now with this only here at
10:10
the very end, they're all kind of putting it together and.
10:12
And yeah, when when Yates comes in with the gun, you know, the
10:18
really the pennies dropped and everything's kind of them racing
10:22
towards the the climax here. And you know, there is no hint
10:25
of that comedy buffoon Brigadier, and this is that you
10:28
have in some of those mid per we store.
10:30
Yes. Yeah, he's right back at sort of
10:33
Season 7, Brigadier I. Think yeah, yeah, we're like, as
10:35
you say, maybe he's he's distrustful of the doctor or
10:38
like, you know, he's he's not not in full possession of the
10:41
facts. So he's like, he's not going to
10:43
take the doctor for granted. And, you know, he knows that the
10:46
doctor could produce the dinosaurs and there can't be
10:49
many other people who could do that.
10:50
So like you know, is it unreasonable?
10:53
Fuck, he's got a gun on the Brigadier and.
10:55
Benson, Nicholas Corney is expressing there.
10:58
Amazing. Put it down, Sir.
11:00
Oh boy, look at their faces. Yeah, but that's got to be like,
11:06
what a what a big reveal. Like, you know, one of our
11:09
regulars is, is actually a baddie, you know?
11:12
Yeah. We've put up with you middle
11:14
class cunt for the last three seasons and now you're pulling a
11:17
gun on us. God now, but God's sake.
11:22
And it's so clever because that comedy character, the, the,
11:27
what's his name? Oh, Bryson.
11:28
Yeah, yeah. Private, he's been sent on the
11:30
oh for God, just go make some tea just to get rid of him.
11:33
That's absolutely for a purpose for the story.
11:36
Yeah, yeah, but he's pretty the great performance because he
11:38
looks so happy when he's got Oh yeah, I've got a little job to
11:40
do. And then he comes back in with
11:43
the tea. This is all great and Per weezy
11:46
like Sam, the charming mode, the yeah, the the PT back in Pool.
11:51
It's a moment of charm there is what I was trying to say from
11:53
per wee. There never was a golden age,
11:56
Mike, you know. So Per wee gets this little
11:58
moment of charm. Then we then we get the big, you
12:01
know, we get the you know, trying to tie down Yeats great.
12:06
This is great stuff is. Really, I love as well that he's
12:09
not Richard Franklin is not playing it like a villain.
12:13
He's like, Doctor, Listen, like, and I like the way the Doctor
12:16
goes. You know, I sympathize.
12:18
I know what you're trying to do, but do you realize the
12:20
implications of what you're going to do?
12:22
Yeah. And he's like quite cold here.
12:24
He's like free to tax where like, you know, they're saying,
12:27
are we inside the zone? And he's like, well, it's not
12:29
necessarily important if I live, you know, it's important that
12:32
the, the 'cause happens. You know, he's really in on the
12:35
cause. Perry, there in many ways are
12:38
sympathise of your ideals. Yeah.
12:40
Yes, isn't the way to go about it.
12:41
Yeah. So their intentions are good,
12:44
their methods are very bad. Yeah, absolutely.
12:49
Oh, there he is. Look, he's basically staring at
12:51
the camera there. Take the world you've got and do
12:54
something with it. You get full, full moment of
12:57
charm and now Benton's like got him in a neck lock.
13:01
I mean, that's basically the end of Orphan 55, isn't it?
13:04
Staring out the camera. What you get, you do get like
13:07
and you get another scene of the moralisation at the end where
13:10
they talk about, you know, what's happening to to Yates
13:13
and, you know, the doctors talking about the greed of of,
13:17
you know, the world. So you do get that Orphan 55
13:21
that that moralisation. I actually don't mind orphan 55.
13:25
I think it does. It does.
13:26
It's doing what this episode? Benny.
13:31
She gets murdered. She gets murdered.
13:37
Oh boy, they should kill our women off more.
13:40
It's very funny. I.
13:42
Can see why people don't like being.
13:44
People don't like being told what's wrong and a bit like.
13:47
What he just did there? Yeah, yeah.
13:49
And it's a bit like me maybe not necessarily accepting the left
13:52
wingness of the the buddies earlier on.
13:54
So, you know, it's like you don't want to be thought of as
13:57
being wrong. You don't want to be, you don't
13:58
want to be lectured to. And I totally get that.
14:01
But at the same time, I think it's totally valid in the terms
14:04
of telling this story. I just, I refuse to believe that
14:07
every left winger is Lily white and every right winger is an
14:12
evil bastard because I just. Life isn't that simple.
14:16
I know we like it to be, but it just isn't.
14:19
No, it really isn't. No, and, and, and actually,
14:22
we've gone down as a society. We've gone down a very
14:24
polarizing in a polarized path where you're you're exactly
14:29
right. You know, you have to be nailed
14:31
to one side or the other. You can't, you know, there's no
14:33
room for people to take one of people's views.
14:38
I do wonder, you know, if more people are sort of in that
14:41
middle ground that they will, because I don't think you can
14:44
ever say that without one side or the other going, well, you're
14:48
not with us then. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
14:52
It's, you know, it's a shame, but this is this is great.
14:55
I love this guy with the brown jacket on these.
14:57
He's free. Terry Jones, like, oh, so my
15:00
house. It's great.
15:02
He's the same actor that turns up in robot, you know, as one of
15:05
the young people. Yeah, Yeah.
15:09
Oh, my word, Mark. You are so pretty.
15:12
Oh, Mark. It's a good name.
15:13
You know, look at the poor coward is confused.
15:18
You must go back to the reminder room.
15:20
She's already contaminated one of us.
15:22
Is one of us. But Can you imagine waking up
15:26
and you think you think you're woken up to something new and
15:29
you something you've been kind of presumably waiting for for
15:32
some time and then you'd completely told that what you're
15:35
expecting is not not true. It's really but.
15:37
Now this is like a cult. They're holding her down.
15:40
Right, we're going to. Lock her up.
15:41
They're dragging her away. Yeah, You know, And there's talk
15:45
of her being killed, like it's sort of a bit edgy.
15:49
Yeah. For the good guys, well, they're
15:51
not really the good guys, are they?
15:54
They think they're the good guys.
15:55
That's. It exactly Well, that's the
15:57
thing when you and like nobody thinks they're a bad guy, do
16:00
they? So like I guess that's.
16:02
Guess the hope Hitler might have thought it somewhere towards the
16:05
end. Maybe.
16:06
Maybe. Maybe I was wrong.
16:08
Well, you know, someone like Trump, I can't imagine is is
16:11
kind of a capable of that kind of, you know, he's not.
16:15
Self aware in any way, shape or form.
16:18
He really isn't. With every passing tweet I'm
16:21
like, oh shut up, who's letting him have this account?
16:28
Oh boy, oh boy, I swear that's a different model.
16:33
It's it's a big like hero model of the head, isn't it?
16:36
And you think they could have done with one of those for the
16:38
other dinosaur in that fight would have made would have
16:41
really punched it up a little bit more.
16:43
But. That really looks like the
16:49
chewiest monster today. It's the hand.
16:53
Yeah, it's not the same Ed, is it?
16:55
But like how good is this bit where we are driving through the
16:59
the big Diplodocus legs? I mean, if, if Disney had the
17:03
right, if Doctor had been a huge success, we could have had the
17:05
theme park drive straight through the legs of the
17:08
Stegosaurus. You imagine, You know, you said
17:14
about lecturing. Yeah.
17:15
I think that's why a lot of people will object to RTD, too.
17:18
There was so much lecturing in RTD, too.
17:22
I think people would just like, all right now, just tell a
17:24
story. Just one week, please.
17:26
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I don't necessarily.
17:28
Yeah, Yeah, I think you're right.
17:29
I mean, there's a balance. There's definitely a balance to
17:31
be had. It's not like Barry Letts and
17:35
Turn Sticks were doing this every week where you get like.
17:38
That's fabulous. The Stegosaurus in front of the
17:41
miniature underground. Yeah, yeah, it and it's
17:45
identical to the to the location footage.
17:47
Yeah, it's really, really good and I think it is.
17:50
Must go to bed that night and go, oh, that's life, our lead.
17:55
Well, you can see though, if you look at that diorama when it
17:58
comes back on the screen as you see the little slot where his
18:00
leg goes kind of backwards and forwards in the road, so.
18:04
He's for a grenade. So you can see, see the little
18:07
line where his feet are there, you can see where it's kind of
18:10
moving backwards avoids on that. So not perfect, but definitely.
18:14
Going. Should I?
18:15
What? I don't like the look of those
18:16
grenades. I'm going to back off a little
18:17
bit. Yeah.
18:18
Did you say the dogs are looking at a Brigadier?
18:21
Dragged him down behind the Jeep.
18:22
Will you get down, please? I mean, I think at this point,
18:27
Courtney and Pertwee, they've just got such a brilliant,
18:30
relaxed chemistry together. Yeah, yeah.
18:32
And I know some. People say you lose the drama of
18:34
those that sort of edginess that they had, but I think over time
18:38
you do have a relaxed chemistry with people.
18:40
You would. Yeah.
18:40
Of course you would. Yeah.
18:41
And you can't maintain that forever because then it was you
18:44
just get like the constant bickering of the Eric Saywood
18:47
years and you know, he's it stops being fun.
18:52
You know, I think characters, as you say, they end up finding
18:54
that kind of Nat, they settle down into a natural kind of
18:58
rhythm. And and as you say, the actors
19:00
have got that rapport anyway. So they're going to, they're
19:02
going to bring that to this. Is that space suit from moon
19:05
base three? It is.
19:07
From moon base. Three or just guess that is that
19:09
real? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
19:13
Oh that show was so boring. Wasn't it?
19:15
Oh God, it's really dull, isn't it?
19:18
Oh boy. I mean from the team that gave
19:20
you one of the most dynamic and exciting periods of Doctor Who.
19:23
The not the dullest sophomite show imaginable.
19:26
I love where the dust settled and Terrace says what a
19:29
commentary. What's it?
19:30
Yes, we realised. What's it like if you sort of
19:32
take out and do day-to-day life on the moon?
19:35
What's that like? It turns out really boring.
19:40
I could only watch 2 episodes last night.
19:42
I can't watch anymore. Yes, over the years I've given
19:45
it a try and like I've skimmed through a little bit the other
19:49
night, like in kind of the background of kind of watching
19:52
this and because I've been I think that's the only prop as
19:57
far as I know that they share. But the set of the spaceship
20:00
here kind of looks a little bit like the moon base stuff.
20:02
Certainly this the seating area kind of reminds me of the moon
20:05
base kind of kind of sets. But yeah, they, they, it's chalk
20:10
and cheese, isn't it? Because even though this is
20:12
probably one of the most serious 3rd Doctor stories in terms of,
20:16
you know, the, the, the sophistication of the plot,
20:21
Yeah, this is way more exciting than than any episode of the
20:24
Moon Phase Three. There's so much more happening
20:27
here. I mean, it was just so one note
20:30
that show and the characters were also dreary.
20:33
Yeah, I know some people will hate me for this, but I'm not
20:36
even a big fan of something like Star Cops.
20:39
I can't find a little bit slow. I think Star Cops, some of the
20:43
scripts are pretty good, but they were really let down by the
20:47
production on it. Like I think when Graham Harper
20:50
comes in and does a couple of the later ones, it's a bit more
20:53
dynamic and he shoots it certainly a lot better.
20:56
But the early ones are just, yeah, very flat.
21:00
Yeah, yeah, you know, maybe everyday stories of people in
21:04
spaces and that exciting. You need, you need dinosaurs.
21:07
You need guys with little stubby arms and and wobbly heads.
21:12
Or at least if you know you are going to have seen set on a
21:15
moon, be like Frontier in space, A prison on the moon, you know.
21:19
Right. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
21:21
That's good. A.
21:21
Master breaking the Doctor out of prison.
21:24
Oh, wonderful. Yeah, so this Triceratops in the
21:28
in the tube now I think you look that is one of the most
21:32
successful like dinosaur dioramas of them all.
21:34
I think this looks brilliant. And I think when when you see
21:37
the Nicholas, Nicholas Courtney walk up to with a flare, I think
21:41
all of this is fantastic. It's really, really good.
21:43
The doctors look at him now. Bring it here.
21:45
Be careful now. Oh yeah, look at that.
21:48
Although the smoke did just vanish inside his leg, but never
21:51
mind. You know, if you're going to
21:53
look, yeah. Because it's in the half dark
21:55
that that model looks really good, you know well.
21:57
Yeah, darkness does cover a lot of sins, doesn't it?
22:00
So yeah, absolutely. This is a very.
22:01
Classic Doctor Who thing. It was just overhearing at the
22:03
door listening to Grover revealing his plan and now he's
22:07
got Oh my God, I've overheard the evil plans I've come to
22:09
release. You.
22:10
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. So now it really it feels like
22:14
it's gaining events out, the Doctors getting close, Yeah.
22:17
And the Brigadier, Sarah out. And she's got a lot of people on
22:20
her side. Yeah, absolutely.
22:22
Yeah, everything is kind of coming to a head, isn't it?
22:25
Maybe the switch won't be thrown after all.
22:29
Before, like, you know, like say, like in the in the last
22:31
episode where the Doctors held back from seeing Grover and
22:34
Butler, so he's kind of prevented from getting there.
22:36
But now, yeah, we're we're racing to that.
22:39
That finale, the big it's a bit coming up, which makes me laugh
22:42
when every time I see it where they literally they're about to
22:45
blow a massive hole to get down into the base.
22:47
And then the Brigadier says, I'll come down with you.
22:50
And he says no, Doctor says no. It's more conspicuous if we both
22:54
turned up. It's like you just blowing a
22:56
fucking hole in the ground. It's hardly a subtle way of.
23:01
Entering somewhere. Is it you saw that poster on the
23:04
wall there? Did you see it?
23:05
Thompson Summer Sun, Yeah. Yeah, and there's one for
23:09
joining the UP. There's a poster there.
23:10
It's one of the sliders that come in.
23:12
That's for a film that was directed the year before by
23:15
Warren Hussain, which is quite a nice little.
23:18
Yeah, I was. Just going to say there's still
23:19
a Thompson in my town centre. Is.
23:21
Oh well, there's still. Around, yeah, I went on Thompson
23:24
Cruise. I bet you had a good time.
23:28
Oh, pretty. Yeah, it was a very.
23:30
Did you have the did? You have the pine up and
23:32
pineapple upside down outside your room.
23:34
Is that the sign or was that like?
23:37
How do you know that? Oh, you know, I'm a man of the
23:41
world, Joe. All gay men need to do is go up
23:44
and off for another man, a drink and that's it.
23:46
You're in for a good night. Well, yeah.
23:49
Easy is that? Damn you straight boys.
23:54
I'm sorry you. It's much harder for you.
23:56
You've got a wine and dine dates to get to know people.
24:00
Yeah, well, they gotta look at this.
24:01
Yeah, this is brilliant. And I Love and Beckon is just
24:04
straight in there, the launches straight to the Finch.
24:07
Jesus, he's. Sticking his.
24:09
Hands down on the table, punches him in the face.
24:13
Yeah, he's like John Levine must be loving this episode.
24:15
He seems to have a great time. Yeah, Oh boy.
24:19
Oh my word. Look at all of their jeans.
24:21
I'm sorry, I'll have to turn away from the screen.
24:26
But like, again, like roofs, like panic here is like, you
24:30
know, Sarah's going to kill herself.
24:32
And that's still brilliant of the whole concept of a secret
24:37
underground place where people think they're in a spaceship.
24:40
I think that's just a fantastic, fantastic idea.
24:43
But this is great. The people that have tricked you
24:44
are out there. If you want tomorrow, the next
24:46
place and then Ruth is straight out of that.
24:48
Door. She's the first.
24:50
I wouldn't. Want to see her angry?
24:52
Jesus Christ. Oh my God, we're all getting.
24:56
Everyone's getting closer to that.
24:58
Excellent chamber all though they all cram into that final
25:01
set, don't they? Oh.
25:02
And Jarvis is going oh fuck, what's going on here?
25:05
He gets probably probably mulleted by the doctor.
25:08
I love this. Hi, that's right.
25:12
That's what you call Venusia Nuja.
25:14
Yes, he probably got huge then. What is his line, his lines and
25:18
this actual? Pterodactyl uja.
25:23
It's a great story for the whole, the whole of the unit,
25:25
isn't it? They all, they all get good
25:27
stuff to do. Yeah, and I think that's the
25:29
benefit of 6 episodes, which there's plenty of moments for
25:32
everyone. Yeah, when they're done really
25:34
well. And a lot of people say all the
25:36
Pertwee 6 parts are padded, but I love those long Pertwee
25:40
stories. I mean, I could luxuriate in one
25:41
of those on a Sunday afternoon, you know?
25:45
This is definitely one of those. I think I struggle with some of
25:47
them for sure. I I think I naturally prefer A4
25:50
parter and and often I often forget stories have got 6 parts
25:54
so I'll get to the end of part 4 and go, oh, it's not kind of
25:56
wrapped up. I think that growing up in the
25:58
kind of 80s, I think 4 seemed like the natural number for for
26:02
everything. So I'm always taken by surprise
26:04
a little bit. If you're doing it in order, the
26:07
two doctors is so strange, isn't it being the yeah.
26:11
Yeah, yeah, I. Love the two doctors.
26:13
So what am I saying? Yeah, you like the blood
26:17
thirstiness of of those years, don't you quite like that?
26:20
Look at that. Is that Yazoo I see behind there
26:23
with the blonde hair? The only way is up no.
26:26
I don't get is actually, but more people come on the set
26:29
right? But how many people are they
26:31
going to? Everybody's in it.
26:33
Oh my God, don't touch that lever.
26:35
Yeah, and, and John gets the perfect superhero moment here.
26:39
He's like Superman, isn't he? Like trying to hold back time.
26:43
This fantastic. This is what I want from a from
26:45
my Doctor Who from my doctor. You know, that kind of hero
26:49
moment where he's saving the day.
26:51
You like a slow climax, do you? Oh yeah, I like struggling to
26:56
struggling to reach the knob, Joe Yes, yes.
27:00
Oh, OK, I'm getting to know you very well.
27:03
This story. Was everyone standing still
27:06
there where he was still moving? Or do you think they froze the
27:08
picture? I think I did read about this.
27:10
I think it is a still image. Yeah.
27:14
Yeah, I think this. He's not like he's doing the
27:17
slow motion thing himself. Yeah.
27:20
Where have they gone? Back to their golden age?
27:23
Oh my, so they're going to be there in prehistoric Earth with
27:27
all those fucking dinosaurs. Yeah.
27:28
Do you think there's a big finished box set of their
27:31
adventures to? This and you know, do you
27:34
remember, do you remember a big finish had Adric survive Earth
27:38
shock back in prehistoric Earth as well, didn't they?
27:42
So they could all set up together.
27:43
But that's he wouldn't, he wouldn't listen to that.
27:50
Oh boy. Oh, here we go.
27:52
Pertwee's proper lecture is here.
27:54
Right here we get the, we get the.
27:56
Tail. It's the this planet fuels
27:58
Brigadier, one vast garbage dump inhabited only by rats.
28:03
It's never the oil, the filth and the poisonous chemicals that
28:08
are real cause and then I love it.
28:10
He gives his lecture and the Brigadier just goes.
28:13
Well anyway, that's what you need after a long.
28:18
Space maybe, maybe that's. Maybe that's it.
28:20
You don't want speak sweeping music, like really punching home
28:24
that message. You just need someone.
28:25
Just punch her so slightly. Bring it back down to earth.
28:28
So as well, what about Captain Yates?
28:31
Benson still cares and he goes. He's got a chance to retire
28:34
quietly, but that's the best I can do for him.
28:36
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and I don't think anyone
28:39
would suspect he'd be backing Planet of the Spiders, but it's
28:42
such a great development when he is.
28:44
Yeah, yeah. Again, that was a big surprise
28:46
as well. I think the first time I saw
28:47
that, I was like, oh, brilliant. Yeah.
28:50
So yeah, it really does give him quite an arc over that three
28:55
story, you know, Green Death, this and Planet Spiders.
29:01
For a character that probably wasn't going anywhere
29:04
particularly, he suddenly gets his amazing arc at the end of
29:08
the run. Those his great stuff.
29:10
I love, oh, Slaton and Perkway in this last scene.
29:13
It'd be a long time before I go back in that time.
29:15
Oh, what a pity. Yeah, I was thinking of taking
29:17
you to floral, you know. Yeah, and we get Dudley's
29:20
music's just kind of twinkly here, you know, a bit bit of the
29:24
Three Doctors kind of style, twinkly, twinkly music.
29:27
Yeah, if you took me somewhere where the seas were like warm
29:31
milk, I'll be like, I want a refund, all right?
29:36
You wouldn't want to tip your toes in one milk.
29:39
The next thing you know, she's in a bloody bikini and he's
29:42
twirling an umbrella around in the TARDIS.
29:45
Yeah, yeah. It's that old Daleks, that old
29:49
standby of, you know, the Doctor going on holiday but never quite
29:52
getting there. I mean, that's, I mean, that
29:55
must be one of the first first times they do it.
29:56
But it was such a kind of cliche, isn't it?
29:59
Absolutely joyous that I, I, you know, there's obviously
30:03
production of things you can fault if you want to, but I
30:06
think as a script it's, it's really packed.
30:10
As a character story, it works. Everyone gets moments.
30:14
As a, a moral, it packs a punch as a, as a monster story.
30:20
It's got great set pieces. It's got everything.
30:23
Yeah, it really does. And, and, and, and I think as
30:26
we've said all the way through this every episode, it does
30:28
build on, on every episode. So even when the surprises have
30:32
kind of stopped, it's still building because you still,
30:35
people are still working out who's on whose side.
30:39
So, you know, and you've got that constant, you know,
30:42
revelation after revelation, the, the, the spaceship, all of
30:46
that stuff. Yeah, it's, yeah, Great.
30:49
Loved it on the first, the first time I saw it.
30:51
And I say going into it, I'm not expecting a huge amount because
30:55
of his reputation and and the headline news is that the the
30:58
dinosaurs weren't very good. But it completely blew me away.
31:02
Still blows me away. It's such a great story.
31:05
And how was your, you know, talking for three hours
31:09
experience you? Know very good.
31:11
Yeah, for the guys listen, listen to this.
31:15
I've said to Joe off camera, this is like the 4th podcast
31:19
I've done. And I was a bit nervous about
31:21
doing a longer one and doing the some of the classic stories.
31:24
I was like, I don't know if I can keep this up like episode
31:27
after episode. You're doing this on purpose
31:29
now? Well, I was a bit nervous about
31:32
doing a longer one. I wasn't sure if I could keep it
31:35
up. Whatever.
31:36
Yeah, whatever. Sorry.
31:37
Please continue. Well, you know, I didn't think I
31:41
could last the, you know, had the staying power to to play
31:43
with you go. But you know, you nursed me
31:47
through it and kept me on the edge of my feet.
31:50
Safe hands, all right? Or at least we had a safe word.
31:56
The safe word was dinosaur. Big bad T Rex.
32:01
Well, you know what we've got to do now. 3.
32:05
Fabulous things. Indeed, yeah.
32:08
I mean come on now, you extol so many virtues, I'm sure it's
32:13
going to be easy for you to whip them out.
32:18
Well, I will whip it out. I think my first one won't be a
32:21
surprise when I whip it out because.
32:24
I'm done to you. Yeah, my my first one is and I
32:28
mentioned a few times as we've gone through these is that
32:31
surprise factor and that for me, that first watch, the first time
32:36
I saw it, as I say, not necessarily know much beyond the
32:40
kind of headline news of what the the kind of, you know, that
32:42
kind of headline of the story of the the story not being grey,
32:46
the dinosaurs not being grey, finding a story which was
32:49
constantly surprising full, you know, like every single
32:54
revelation of who's in on this conspiracy, the massive pivot in
33:00
the middle of the story where suddenly Sarah's wished away and
33:03
seems seems to be offer that cliffhanger.
33:06
Still my absolute favorite. So is that, you know, that's
33:10
what my first pick is just the number of surprises.
33:14
My first pick is going to be Sarah Jane because whole swathes
33:20
of this story, she's pushing the action forward.
33:25
I think a really interesting conversation with Simon Guria
33:29
earlier today where he was saying, yeah, he's writing a
33:31
book about Terence Dix and about how Terence likes to pretend
33:35
that, you know, oh, I like them distracted, the railway tracks,
33:37
you know, Perils of Pauline and all that stuff.
33:40
And he and he was saying what you said like you see when Sarah
33:44
Jane goes away from Terence Dix script, editing her to Robert
33:50
Holmes script and suddenly it is a lot more perils of Pauline.
33:53
I mean, Austin, she's great, but it is she's a victim far more
33:56
than she is a character with massive agency that she is here.
34:01
And they genuinely, I think they genuinely were saying to all his
34:04
writers, give her like, allow her to control the action and
34:10
the stories, use her background, her career as part of it.
34:14
It's all in here. I said to you in Part 3, this is
34:17
Sarah's episode. This is barely the Doctor's
34:19
idiot, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
34:21
So yeah. Elizabeth Slayden is like, she's
34:25
come into this show, especially in the Time Warrior and this
34:28
she's just like, I'm you know what?
34:30
I'm no Katie Manning. I'm not Joe Grant.
34:32
I'm going to make my mark as Sarah Jane.
34:34
And boy, does she. Yeah.
34:37
Oh, you've actually stolen my pic there.
34:39
I was going to go for Sarah after and I felt I had to
34:42
because after revealing that I'm not the biggest Sarah Jane fan
34:46
in the in the world, but but you know, she's she's absolutely
34:48
brilliant in this. You're totally right.
34:50
And then, as I say, leans into that journalistic side of her
34:55
character. So, yeah, absolutely Part 2 for
34:58
me. Let's go for Paddy Russell's
35:00
direction. All the film stuff.
35:04
Fantastic. And just that opening, It seems
35:07
like ages ago we talked about this now, that opening, the
35:09
shots in Part 1 of the empty London, how exciting that is.
35:15
And in in part 5 there the the chase scene that, you know, that
35:19
that extended chase probably looming through the ferns, all
35:23
of that stuff. Yeah, I I think for particularly
35:27
the location filming, but as a story overall like them, we talk
35:31
about the the Moody lighting in the underground base and how
35:34
cool that looked. I think the the direction of
35:36
this is is really really good. She casts impeccably as well,
35:40
all of her stores. She's got actors in her, but
35:43
good actors and as well as the action, she does give the actors
35:48
time to do their stuff right. But we get that great comedy
35:51
moment in Episode 2. Yeah, Sarah doing all her
35:53
investigations, all the hero moments with the UNIT characters
35:57
in Episode 6. You know, she she gives the
35:59
actors there. And I think you have to Right.
36:02
Like, yeah, just wonderful. Well, my second thing is going
36:05
to be the fabulous tiny wristed, big jawed, whippy tailed hungry
36:15
beast big man T Rex himself. And I don't care that he looks
36:19
ridiculous, he's just great. Every time he turns up pissed as
36:23
houses, he wants to eat everything insight.
36:26
He's popping his head up out of houses.
36:28
He's peekaboo in his way through walls.
36:32
Oh, marvellous. He, he, you know, he's so lazy.
36:35
He just goes in reverse sometimes, you know, I don't
36:38
want to turn around. All right?
36:39
I'm just going to walk backwards.
36:40
It's a lot. It's a lot of effort to turn
36:42
around sometimes. I mean he bites the shit out of
36:44
that brontosaurus in episode 6. He is the star of the show as
36:48
far as I'm concerned. Big Man T Rex.
36:51
Yeah, I mean, an iconic image, isn't it iconic?
36:55
Absolutely. Nobody loves that dinosaur more
36:58
than me and Lucy McCall. I mean, we're just obsessed.
37:02
Yeah. I mean, yeah, absolutely.
37:04
He's, as I say, he's just, I think he does make this story.
37:08
He's the weakest of the models, but he's the most memorable one
37:11
of the models. He's lying down as well in the
37:14
hangar, right? And he gets up, he bangs his
37:18
head, don't he, on the roof and goes, oh, dear, dear.
37:20
It's a bit short in here, isn't it?
37:22
Like, And then he goes, right, I'm pissed.
37:24
I'm going to whip my tail straight through that window and
37:26
knockout Sarah Jane. Yeah, my last, my last one.
37:31
It might feel a bit of a cop out because the first one was all of
37:34
the surprises and the kind of structure of the whole story,
37:37
but I do need to pick out that cliffhanger for Part 3 where we
37:43
left Earth three months ago. Just genuinely one of the most
37:48
jaw-dropping moments in classic. Who managed to say takes the
37:52
story somewhere. Actually, I am repeating myself
37:54
and it's kind of like the same as Paul, you know, the my first
37:56
choice. But I I really do feel that that
37:59
cliffhanger is really, really just one of the strongest in in
38:02
the whole of classic run. And then you had to improvise.
38:04
Another thing though, because I stole your Sarah Jane one
38:07
didn't. I yeah, I was probably going to
38:08
steal the T Rex's. I was going to have him as.
38:09
Well, so we're in the same mind. Well, my last thing then, it's
38:15
going to be the whole of episode 6, because I think very often
38:18
cliffhanger, sorry, climactic last episodes are really
38:21
disappointing in Doctor Who. Yeah, go and look at the
38:23
Hinchcliffe era. Generally speaking, they stop
38:26
brilliantly and then terribly. But this, when we were just
38:30
listing the things, weren't we Dinos on Dinos?
38:33
And then you add this Doctor running around the corner and
38:37
the face off between the Brigadier and the General and
38:40
Mike Yates pulling a gun on everybody, Sarah convincing all
38:46
the people in the underground and it was just building a
38:48
building. But it's all, every character in
38:50
this bloody thing, traitor and hero alike.
38:53
We're all in that one room trying to grab the button
38:57
together, and it's genuinely climactic.
39:01
The only advice I'd like to hand out is David J Howe.
39:05
Can I suggest, please, you watch Doctor Who with more fun people
39:08
you know than Stammers and Walker?
39:10
Because if you watched it with me and Paul Arthur, you know, I
39:13
think you'd have great fun with Invasion of the Dinosaurs.
39:16
Yeah, and you'd be praising those effects to the to the sky
39:19
because. Yeah.
39:20
You are 10, are you mad? What would you give this?
39:23
I mean it would be annoying for me.
39:25
It's top tip hurt we but you know, absolutely yeah no, if I
39:29
if I was to give it a number, I'd go 9 as well yeah.
39:33
See, we're 18 out of 20 here. Yeah, there aren't many six
39:37
partners that are as consistently good.
39:40
Like I said said earlier, you know, I do find 6 part is often
39:45
a little bit more of a challenge and I get to part 4 and I kind
39:48
of like, oh, I could do with this being done now, but this
39:52
does keep it up. And as you say, like that final
39:54
part, how often, how many stories are let down by that?
39:57
That final, final episode I tend to watch watch.
40:01
Part 1 of many stories now I never finish.
40:03
I never get to bother because I'm like, if you just.
40:05
Watch part ones right for the whole good classic series.
40:08
Yeah, Doctor Who. It's the most perfect show ever.
40:10
Right. Yeah, yeah.
40:11
I mean, Part 1 often gives me exactly what I want from like,
40:14
great, I want to see a particular story, just want to
40:17
get a little bit of it. Part 1 gives you everything you
40:19
need and you're like, you know, this isn't going to be as good
40:21
from this point on. So yeah, I'll often do that.
40:23
If you just watch Part 1 of Time Lash, it ends with that.
40:26
Wonderful, unpleasant journey, Doctor.
40:35
It's still shit. Oh, come on, we should do the
40:38
time, Nash. I do like yeah we.
40:41
Isn't it wonderful? My God, saison up the fouch on
40:45
rocks. I'm not anywhere near as big a
40:49
A6 fan as as I know you are. With your man, That's why I.
40:53
Know, I know, but I Do you like I?
40:55
Do you like Tom Nash? Yeah.
40:57
I love how Colin or just walk in a room and punch somebody's
41:00
lights out, whether they've been nice or horrible, we don't care.
41:03
He's great. It's very me, you know?
41:05
That's all I go around life not. Punch.
41:07
Yeah, you're fist flailing like punching them.
41:10
With wit and repartee, you know. Exactly.
41:13
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, or just nonsense.
41:16
Well, I mean, I mean, that does lead me to the question really
41:19
of what exciting venture that we're going to go on to next.
41:23
And now I think we're coming away from per wee for a second,
41:25
don't we? We might come back again, but
41:28
where are we going? Well, I mean, we had a few
41:31
choices and I'm not sure if we actually settled on anything.
41:34
So I'm I'm, I mean, because we did, you did sit well.
41:38
I suggested Terra, the Autons, and you said you'd never done it
41:42
and you'd. Love to do it?
41:43
Oh boy. But now you're saying you've had
41:46
enough. Perk with you?
41:46
No. Maybe we should.
41:49
Well, no, I know, but Terry Deals has never been done.
41:52
Right. I mean, that's a great reason
41:54
for doing it. I also said I'd like to do a
41:56
McCoy, but I looked for it back through and I think pretty much
42:00
all of them had done in the, oh, you know, really relatively
42:03
recently as well. Really popular?
42:05
Yeah. W McCoy Stories.
42:07
And I think I suggested Paradise Towers, but I don't really mind.
42:12
Whatever you'd like to do. Well, you know, I mean, you are
42:16
right about those because maybe we just left a little longer
42:19
gap, you know, and and I'll try and find the one that's been
42:24
done the longest back. I mean, it's a different
42:28
conversation every single time. And I think I've just got more
42:32
mad over the years. I think if you listen to my
42:34
first sort of hundred, I was quite normal in those and.
42:37
Somewhere along the. Line, I went insane.
42:41
Shall we do Tear of the Autons? If you're happy doing another
42:44
pervy, then I definitely am. Yeah.
42:46
Yeah, as I say, I'm not sure. I'd never necessarily want to be
42:48
the pervy guy, but. But yeah, if you've never done
42:51
it before, it seems a shame that you know you you haven't.
42:55
So rather than. Being more dangerous, you know
42:57
when it strikes invisibly. Yeah, absolutely.
43:01
At all. Like as a little rubber doll in
43:05
the in the backseat, in the car. What are you saying about rubber
43:07
dolls? Excuse me, what is that
43:12
telephone flex hanging in the air behind you there?
43:16
Yeah, yeah, I have to have an especially long one for work,
43:18
so. Oh.
43:20
I'm not tying you up in the bedroom again, all right?
43:24
No, I mean, I think that would be a wonderful, a wonderful
43:27
first. Unbelievable that no one's done
43:29
that, right? Some stories have been done
43:31
three times and that hasn't been done once.
43:34
Yeah, crazy. And of course, we'll see the
43:37
first appearance of Captain Yates after this.
43:41
Well, there we go. We come full circle, yeah.
43:43
Absolutely, Katie Manning. I've got you, I've got you, I've
43:46
got you at the end of episode 1. Suave as anything.
43:49
Roger Delgado. Yeah, a story of firsts and a
43:54
brilliant returning monster. And you'll never see more of a
43:58
prick than the 3rd Doctor in Terror of the Autumns.
44:01
He, he, he has this reputation, doesn't he?
44:04
And we can get into that because that's quite interesting.
44:07
Like I, I don't think many, I don't think growing up in
44:11
fandom, I don't think we kind of really noticed the prickishness.
44:15
People had other criticisms of per wee, but I don't think that
44:17
was the criticism. But that's like where people sit
44:20
now with him. Like we talked about whether
44:22
he's popular or not anymore, but but that's where a lot of people
44:26
sit with him. He's like, he's a, well, he's a
44:27
bit of a Dick. Well, yeah, he is kind of a bit
44:29
of a Dick, but you know. I noticed it, I absolutely loved
44:33
it. I wish you'd stayed that way.
44:36
I think maybe I've got a bit more emotionally intelligent as
44:38
I got older I guess, and I just didn't notice the the casual
44:41
workplace bullying that was going on.
44:43
We've got in other directions then, all right.
44:45
I mean, when he gets lies, like what is it?
44:47
You worried, don't you? Ham fisted bum, then done.
44:51
What does that even mean? I don't know.
44:53
Well, we'll get into it, shall we?
44:55
Indeed. Yeah, absolutely.
44:57
In the meantime, I'd like to offer you this plastic daffodil
45:01
as a token of my esteem for doing this.
45:04
And if you could just hold it somewhere near a heater, you'll
45:09
find you'll get the best effect out of it.
45:12
Right. Thank you so much as a lovely
45:13
gift. Yeah.
45:14
Thank you. And thank you for doing these
45:17
six episodes. And yeah, I can't wait.
45:19
I'll see you next time. See you later guys.