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Katie Woolf spoke with Senator Malarndirri McCarthy · 360 with Katie Woolf

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  Speaker 1: Prices.
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  Speaker 2: Well, the phone lines are going absolutely berserk this morning
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  Speaker 2: and we will take those calls in just a little while.
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  Speaker 1: But we tried to catch up with her a little
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  Speaker 1: bit earlier.
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  Speaker 2: It is all go today in Parliament in Canberra, by
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  Speaker 2: the sounds of things. The Senator for the Northern Territory,
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  Speaker 2: Melandarie McCarthy joins me on the line right now.
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  Speaker 1: Good morning, Senator.
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  Speaker 3: Hey, good morning Katie, and good morning to all your listeners.
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  Speaker 1: Busy day, busy day for you guys.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, given that we finished at about one am
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  Speaker 3: this morning and didn't get to sleep till about three am,
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  Speaker 3: and Noah wasn't partying in Canberra, it was just the
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  Speaker 3: debate in the Senate that we're for hours. So we're
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  Speaker 3: all pretty pretty pumped, I think, to get through today
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  Speaker 3: and then hopefully it's going to be our last Senate
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  Speaker 3: day for the year.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Well, it sounds as though it was a busy night
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  Speaker 2: last night.
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  Speaker 1: We were expecting or we weren't really sure.
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  Speaker 2: I guess exactly what was going to happen with the
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  Speaker 2: Cashley step at cart understand it? Rex Patrick did vote?
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  Speaker 2: Did he voted with you? After that trip here to
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  Speaker 2: the Northern Territory.
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  Speaker 3: That's right, Katie, and I just want to thank Territorians,
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  Speaker 3: especially those who talked to Senator Patrick and also to
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  Speaker 3: Senator Lamby. Both of those senators stayed with me with
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  Speaker 3: Labor and voted against the cashlist debit card being compulsory
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  Speaker 3: right across the Northern Territory and those four other jurisdictions
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  Speaker 3: or for other trial sites. So I'm just you know,
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  Speaker 3: it was a great outcome in that respect, Katie, what.
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  Speaker 2: Happened in the end, senator, because as I understand, it
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  Speaker 2: was voted against, but then another senator, another independent senator,
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  Speaker 2: had a meeting with Anne Rustin, the minister responsible for
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  Speaker 2: the legislation. There was something happened behind the scenes, and
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  Speaker 2: then that senator of staying from voting and so now
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  Speaker 2: it's a trial period again.
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  Speaker 3: So really what it is is that the government couldn't
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  Speaker 3: get the bill that it wanted through. The Senate did
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  Speaker 3: reject the government's cash list debit card legislation. So what
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  Speaker 3: the government did was bring in a last minute amendment,
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  Speaker 3: and that amendment was really to keep the status quo,
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  Speaker 3: and that is those four trial sites to continue with
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  Speaker 3: their trial sites for another two years and to also
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  Speaker 3: make the Northern Territory or not make it, but to
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  Speaker 3: invite the Northern Territory to choose to be on the
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  Speaker 3: cash List debit card.
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  Speaker 2: And so who will make that decision as to whether
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  Speaker 2: we choose to be on the cashless debit card or not.
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  Speaker 3: Well, it will really come down firstly to those individuals
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  Speaker 3: who are on the Basics Card. And this was really
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  Speaker 3: a last minute move by the minister. It really did
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  Speaker 3: show in desperation, Katie, the government clearly wanted to keep
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  Speaker 3: the cash List debit card alive. They were not going
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  Speaker 3: to with the fact that Senator Patrick and Senator Lambi
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  Speaker 3: was voting against it. They sneaked in a last minute
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  Speaker 3: amendment and talked to one of the other senators who decided,
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  Speaker 3: even though they voted against it in the lower House,
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  Speaker 3: decided to abstain here in the Senate so that the
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  Speaker 3: Government could pass it.
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  Speaker 2: So, Melandari, you know, what does it mean for those
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  Speaker 2: people that are on the Basics card at the moment
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  Speaker 2: and what will it mean for Territorians.
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  Speaker 3: Well, at the moment, that's still unclear. For the people
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  Speaker 3: on the Basics card, they'll obviously continue on the Basics card.
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  Speaker 3: It's really now a case of what the government is
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  Speaker 3: going to do, And these were questions I asked at
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  Speaker 3: committee stage last night, Katie. One of the things I've
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  Speaker 3: certainly looked into, and Labours looked into, is that it's
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  Speaker 3: actually illegal to send a credit card or debit card
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  Speaker 3: to a person if they requested it. So I think
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  Speaker 3: the Minister has to go back and do some more
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  Speaker 3: work to actually work out the legalities of that because
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  Speaker 3: they can't just send it in the mail. And the
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  Speaker 3: other questions we had was in a lot of our
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  Speaker 3: communities where people are on Basics card, there's no letterboxes
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  Speaker 3: at their home.
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  Speaker 2: You know.
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  Speaker 3: I know this sounds really simple, but that's actually going
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  Speaker 3: to cause legal issues for the distribution of these cards.
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  Speaker 3: And the Minister couldn't answer any of those questions clearly
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  Speaker 3: because they bought in this last minute deal.
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  Speaker 1: Well, it sounds like there's still a way to go.
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  Speaker 2: But at this stage, for anybody out there listening right
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  Speaker 2: now who is on the Basics card, you know, what
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  Speaker 2: would you say to them in terms of, you know,
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  Speaker 2: if they're thinking to themselves, well, does this mean that
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  Speaker 2: the mind's going to change?
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  Speaker 1: What's going to happen for me? What would you say
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  Speaker 1: to them.
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  Speaker 3: Look, I would certainly say to those people who are
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  Speaker 3: on the basics card that your situation won't change in
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  Speaker 3: the immediate future. But at some point, no doubt the
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  Speaker 3: either Center Link or the Department, no doubt they will
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  Speaker 3: be contacted. But I guess there are questions for the
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  Speaker 3: Minister now, Katie, as to how she's going to handle this.
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  Speaker 3: It is really very messy and it is unfortunate that
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  Speaker 3: we didn't just say no to the card and that
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  Speaker 3: was it. But you know, deals are made and people backflip,
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  Speaker 3: and that's what happened last night, well this morning at
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  Speaker 3: two one am, his long night.
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  Speaker 2: Well, well, we'll wait in here and we will will
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  Speaker 2: certainly sort of you know, try and keep an ear
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  Speaker 2: out on exactly what's going on. But we have heard
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  Speaker 2: from people who found it really hard, especially around Christmas time,
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  Speaker 2: trying to buy presents and stuff. Is what we've sort
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  Speaker 2: of heard on our phone line.
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  Speaker 3: Yes, and you know, it's this is what we raise.
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  Speaker 3: There are some really incredibly emotional speed which is you know,
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  Speaker 3: certainly from the Greens, from Senator Lambey herself, you know,
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  Speaker 3: even Senator Patrick, you know, and Labor members that this
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  Speaker 3: is about people and their lives and their livelihoods, and
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  Speaker 3: how they try and look after their families, and how
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  Speaker 3: they're trying to rise above disadvantage. And you can't tire
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  Speaker 3: everyone with the same brush here, and we really did
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  Speaker 3: try hard to get rid of this card. I think
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  Speaker 3: the outcome that we have achieved is certainly, you know,
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  Speaker 3: a little bit better than having got through.
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  Speaker 2: But it was.
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  Speaker 3: Disappointing that one of these Senator Alliance senators just didn't
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  Speaker 3: turn up and give a reason as to why they
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  Speaker 3: would do that.
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  Speaker 2: Well, Senator for the Northern Territory, Melandarie McCarthy, we are
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  Speaker 2: going to have to leave it there. We always appreciate
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  Speaker 2: your time.
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  Speaker 1: Thank you. We'll talk to you again, So thank you.