Transcript

Kim Walnes · Relatively Stable

0:06
SPEAKER_00: What if everything you thought you knew about horses,
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SPEAKER_00: about connection and communication was just the beginning?
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SPEAKER_00: Kim Walness is an Olympic equestrian legend.
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SPEAKER_00: She and her horse,
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SPEAKER_00: the Gray Goose,
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SPEAKER_00: climbed to the top of the sport,
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SPEAKER_00: ranking third in the world,
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SPEAKER_00: and as a result of their partnership,
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SPEAKER_00: Gray was inducted into the U.S.
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SPEAKER_00: Eventing Association Hall of Fame.
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but kim's legacy isn't just about medals or accolades it's
0:40
about something deeper i
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first met kim after sarah ferris connected with her at a
0:46
centered writing symposium
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and we invited her to the farm for a clinic that was years ago
0:53
and so much has
0:55
shifted since then both in my own journey and in the evolution
1:00
of bramblewood
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SPEAKER_00: stables but i still remember that day vividly
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SPEAKER_00: The weather was relentless,
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SPEAKER_00: torrential rain,
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SPEAKER_00: hail,
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SPEAKER_00: high winds,
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SPEAKER_00: bursts of bright sunshine,
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SPEAKER_00: as if the elements were demanding my attention,
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SPEAKER_00: forcing me into a deeper connection with the natural world.
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And what I took away from Kim's wisdom was something that
1:25
shaped everything that I do now.
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SPEAKER_00: Accolades mean nothing without connection.
1:31
SPEAKER_00: Kim Walness isn't just a decorated Olympic equestrian.
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SPEAKER_00: She is a mentor,
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SPEAKER_00: life coach,
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SPEAKER_00: animal communicator,
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SPEAKER_00: rider,
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SPEAKER_00: and modern-day sage,
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SPEAKER_00: channeling messages through her current equine partner,
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SPEAKER_00: Gideon Goodheart.
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She has guided thousands of people towards a deeper
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understanding of themselves,
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SPEAKER_00: their animals,
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SPEAKER_00: and the world around them.
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SPEAKER_00: And what makes her uniquely suited for this?
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SPEAKER_00: She's walked both paths,
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SPEAKER_00: earning her place in the traditional horse world,
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SPEAKER_00: only to return and show us another way.
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This conversation is one that I've been looking forward to for
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a long time,
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SPEAKER_00: and I can't wait to share it with you.
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SPEAKER_00: It is so wonderful to have you here with me today, Kim Walness.
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SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Kim.
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SPEAKER_00: It's a joy to be here.
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SPEAKER_00: It's been so long since I've been close.
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Like I followed your work in the years since we had the
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incredible opportunity to
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SPEAKER_00: have you come to the farm and do a clinic with us.
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SPEAKER_00: And I didn't even look back to see how long ago that was.
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SPEAKER_00: Me either.
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SPEAKER_00: It's a long time though.
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SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00: You really were the first person who helped me start to make this,
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this deep shift into approaching the horses in a completely
3:00
different way.
3:02
SPEAKER_00: And I think for so many of us,
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SPEAKER_00: it was centered writing becomes the way in to thinking of bodies and,
3:12
and physiology and our physiology connecting with the horse's
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physiology and
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SPEAKER_00: And then it's for me,
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it was one step then deeper into kind of mind blowing shift and
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how my connection
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SPEAKER_00: to my relationship could be with my horse.
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I want to hear your words and capture your words more so than
3:32
my story today.
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But can you tell me how that journey from like your writing
3:40
resume is is what every
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SPEAKER_00: little girl dreams of?
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SPEAKER_00: You made your way to the Olympics,
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SPEAKER_00: you had this incredible relationship with your Olympic mount,
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and your work has shifted over the years into this deep
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connection with the energy
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SPEAKER_00: of the horses.
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SPEAKER_00: Can you tell me about just what led you there?
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SPEAKER_01: Okay.
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SPEAKER_01: Yes, I can.
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Gray and I had a very deep connection,
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but I describe it now as we were business partners.
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SPEAKER_01: And even then, I knew we were business partners.
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SPEAKER_01: If I was upset,
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because I went through my divorce not too long after I retired
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from competition,
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SPEAKER_01: and Gray would say,
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SPEAKER_01: I don't want to hear it.
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SPEAKER_01: Go see the pony.
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SPEAKER_01: That's his job.
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SPEAKER_01: He was not a hoggy horse.
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SPEAKER_01: He was strictly business.
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SPEAKER_01: He did not want to be messed with if we were not.
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SPEAKER_01: tacking up, untacking, doing something that was related to business.
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SPEAKER_01: He was all business.
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SPEAKER_01: And he loved it.
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SPEAKER_01: He enjoyed it.
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SPEAKER_01: He'd get so excited when we'd start packing the trunks.
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SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I talked to him.
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SPEAKER_01: You know, he was such a difficult horse.
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SPEAKER_01: And it's interesting, the more I find out about geese, I realize
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SPEAKER_01: the more appropriate his name was.
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SPEAKER_01: I mean,
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I named him because he was awkward on the ground and he was
5:13
poetry in motion when
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SPEAKER_01: he was running and jumping.
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SPEAKER_01: And he was frightened of everything.
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SPEAKER_01: And, you know, we all have that phrase, you silly goose.
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SPEAKER_01: So those were all the reasons.
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SPEAKER_01: But then I find out that geese are such fierce fighters.
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SPEAKER_01: And that was great to a T. He was a fierce fighter.
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SPEAKER_01: He really captured that energy.
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SPEAKER_01: He captured that energy.
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And his whole relationship to our outlook on life was that the
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best defense is a good offense.
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SPEAKER_01: He was a difficult horse to understand.
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SPEAKER_01: So he taught me
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that it was okay to be unconventional because unconventional
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was the only thing
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SPEAKER_01: that worked with him.
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SPEAKER_01: You couldn't make that horse do anything,
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but he would work with you if you were polite about it and
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explained it to him.
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So he opened that door to a deeper understanding of the
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intelligence of horses.
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SPEAKER_00: So in the beginning,
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SPEAKER_00: as you guys were really starting to form your relationship,
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can you tell me about some of the first questions he asked you
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that made you look
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SPEAKER_00: at horsemanship from a different perspective?
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What was some of the initial difficulty that you guys had to
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work through and find
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SPEAKER_00: an unconventional approach to?
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SPEAKER_01: Well,
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SPEAKER_01: first,
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SPEAKER_01: he didn't trust me any more than any other human,
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SPEAKER_01: no matter how much I talked to him or sat with him.
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SPEAKER_01: And he...
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SPEAKER_01: But my daughter was, let me see, that was 1975.
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SPEAKER_01: My daughter was two when I started working with the gray.
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SPEAKER_01: He was not mine.
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SPEAKER_01: I didn't buy him.
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SPEAKER_01: I rode him for a year before we bought him.
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SPEAKER_01: He belonged to the stable where we rode.
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SPEAKER_01: And gray goose loved baby anythings, whatever.
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SPEAKER_01: It didn't matter if it was puppies, kittens, children, little kids.
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SPEAKER_01: And he fell in love with Andy.
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And because Andy only came with me,
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he began to transfer some trust to me.
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SPEAKER_01: But he stumbled a lot.
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SPEAKER_01: He ran off with me truly, literally on a daily basis.
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SPEAKER_01: He threw me on a daily basis for a long time.
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SPEAKER_01: He was just a frightened horse and remained so his entire life.
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SPEAKER_01: The entire world was out to get him.
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SPEAKER_01: So he was just he was not a really self-confident horse at all.
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SPEAKER_01: I had to really build his confidence.
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And of course,
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then he got to be very self-confident in later years,
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which was really cool.
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SPEAKER_01: I had to just find my way.
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SPEAKER_01: I didn't really know.
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SPEAKER_01: I mean, but every horse that I owned was like that.
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SPEAKER_01: I didn't have help.
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And they were all they all had their issues that were the
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reason why I got them.
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SPEAKER_01: The reason I got them was because they all had such issues.
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SPEAKER_00: Were you working towards Olympic goals when you and he were?
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SPEAKER_01: That was my dream.
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SPEAKER_01: I was always searching for that horse,
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but I didn't think he was that horse when I started because he
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tripped and stumbled
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SPEAKER_01: and fell and bucked and he didn't rear.
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SPEAKER_01: He was not a rearer, but boy, could he bolt?
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He could bolt and buck at the same time,
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which is most horses don't do that.
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SPEAKER_01: They bolt or they buck, but he could do both.
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SPEAKER_01: And there was only one person who could stick him,
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SPEAKER_01: who could stay on when he did that kind of thing.
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SPEAKER_01: And that was the young trainer at the barn.
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SPEAKER_01: He could ride him through that, but I couldn't.
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SPEAKER_01: I finally figured it out.
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I just kept thinking about rodeo cowboys and what did they do
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and just pretended I
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SPEAKER_01: had a Western saddle on there and I was on a bronze.
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I threw my hand back,
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stuck my feet out in front and sat way,
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way,
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way back.
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SPEAKER_01: And then I could sit it.
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SPEAKER_01: Anyhow.
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SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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Thank you for saying that because we talk so much about the end
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result of big journeys,
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SPEAKER_00: but we don't talk enough about the really hard beginnings.
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SPEAKER_00: Right.
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SPEAKER_01: This was a really tough beginning,
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SPEAKER_01: but through it all,
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SPEAKER_01: and interestingly,
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I was coming back from a serious illness and injury and had had
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to build my own
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SPEAKER_01: riding confidence back up.
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And when I came back to the barn to start,
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I went back home to the States.
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SPEAKER_01: We were living in Ireland at the time.
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And I went back home to the States to recover and rode my mom's
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horse who was
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the perfect horse for me to start back up on until I felt
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confident enough and felt
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SPEAKER_01: healthy enough.
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SPEAKER_01: And then Andy and I came back to Ireland.
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SPEAKER_01: My daughter and I came back to Ireland.
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SPEAKER_01: And when I got to the bar and I said, you know, I want one horse.
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SPEAKER_01: I want one horse to work on.
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SPEAKER_01: I don't want to just ride every young horse you have and work on that.
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SPEAKER_01: I want one horse to bond with and work with.
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SPEAKER_01: And
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SPEAKER_01: They said, sure, pick one.
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SPEAKER_01: And I said, that one.
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SPEAKER_01: And they said, any horse but that one.
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SPEAKER_01: You don't want that one.
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SPEAKER_01: And that was the one.
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SPEAKER_01: And that was the one.
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SPEAKER_01: That was gray.
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SPEAKER_01: They just called him the gray.
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SPEAKER_01: That was his name at the barn.
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SPEAKER_01: He was the only gray horse in the barn.
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SPEAKER_01: So he was just the gray.
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SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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And no matter how many times he threw me or bolted with me,
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I just never gave up on him.
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SPEAKER_01: But I would come home sometimes and my husband would say,
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SPEAKER_01: So how'd it go?
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SPEAKER_01: How'd it go with the horse today?
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SPEAKER_01: And I say, God, I feel so sorry for whoever buys this horse.
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SPEAKER_01: He's a mess.
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SPEAKER_01: He's just a mess.
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SPEAKER_01: Fast forward one year and I thought,
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SPEAKER_01: you know,
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SPEAKER_01: this horse,
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SPEAKER_01: this horse on his own out in the field,
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SPEAKER_01: nothing,
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SPEAKER_01: nothing could hold this horse in.
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SPEAKER_01: He would, he could jump anything to get where he wanted to go.
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SPEAKER_01: And I knew he had the speed.
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I knew he could jump height and width because I'd seen him do
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it when he was leaving.
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And I knew that he was incredibly graceful in his movement when
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no one was on him.
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SPEAKER_01: And I thought he actually does have the components.
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So I talked my husband into getting him and bringing him back
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to the States.
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SPEAKER_01: We brought him back with a mayor.
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And then I just because of all that we had been through and the
11:12
fact that I could
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SPEAKER_01: tell that he understood things.
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SPEAKER_01: I just kept talking to him and explaining things.
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SPEAKER_01: And I,
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SPEAKER_01: you know,
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SPEAKER_01: I got a lot of ridicule for that when back in the day,
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SPEAKER_01: because I would sit in his stall before the night before cross country.
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SPEAKER_01: And I would tell him the course.
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SPEAKER_01: I'd go through every bit of it,
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all the ground in between and what my plan was and what we were
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going to do.
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SPEAKER_01: And it worked.
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SPEAKER_01: It worked, including even in Holland.
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SPEAKER_01: One time we were there for Bocalo and there was a shortcut.
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SPEAKER_01: that we discovered walking the course.
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SPEAKER_01: And it cut out a good, you know, it was worthwhile to take the shortcut.
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However,
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it was unmown grass,
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it was tall,
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and there was a hidden ditch with water in the grass.
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SPEAKER_01: I mean, you could not see it.
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SPEAKER_01: But interestingly,
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SPEAKER_01: because I have always followed my inner voice in this journey,
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SPEAKER_01: no matter how weird what it tells me to do,
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SPEAKER_01: I've always followed my inner voice.
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SPEAKER_01: And my inner voice,
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SPEAKER_01: before we left for Holland,
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had put the idea in my head to teach Gray to jump even when
12:23
nothing was there.
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SPEAKER_01: If I said the word jump, I wanted him to leave the ground.
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SPEAKER_01: And so I taught him that.
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SPEAKER_01: And then lo and behold, here was the opportunity to use it.
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SPEAKER_01: I just love that.
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SPEAKER_01: That has happened to me all my life.
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SPEAKER_01: When I follow my inner voice, then boom, there's
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SPEAKER_01: There it is.
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So he taught me about the intelligence of horses and how smart
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they really are and
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SPEAKER_01: how much more they understand than we're told they do.
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We're told they can't,
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but they can do so much more than we're told they can do.
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SPEAKER_01: But to get back to your original question,
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SPEAKER_01: the whole deep connection,
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SPEAKER_01: spiritual nature of a relationship,
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SPEAKER_01: that came from Mr.
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SPEAKER_01: Goodheart,
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SPEAKER_01: from Gideon.
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SPEAKER_01: He came here to spread that message.
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SPEAKER_00: When did you and Gideon become partners?
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And how does that fit into,
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did he cross over with Gray Goose being in your life?
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SPEAKER_00: Okay.
13:30
So Gray was present at Gideon's birth because Gideon is the
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third generation of my breeding.
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SPEAKER_01: I had his mother.
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SPEAKER_01: Well, God bred his mother.
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SPEAKER_01: But I had the sire and the dam.
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And I bred her to a Connemara pony because I wanted something
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with a lot of brains.
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I wanted something shorter because I knew this was going to be
13:56
my horse in my elder years.
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SPEAKER_01: And
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SPEAKER_01: And this is, Grange Finspera was a really incredible Connemara stallion.
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SPEAKER_01: He was just, he did it all.
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And the day he was born,
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Gray was in the paddock that that stall door opened into.
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So he had his head over the door,
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like comforting Destiny,
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Gideon's mother,
14:21
the whole time.
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SPEAKER_01: He was there the whole time that Gideon was born.
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SPEAKER_01: And then he mentored Gideon
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SPEAKER_01: right up until his death.
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SPEAKER_01: So three years.
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I had Gideon kind of farmed out where he could run and be with
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other horses because
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SPEAKER_01: in Pennsylvania,
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SPEAKER_01: the part of Pennsylvania where I live,
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SPEAKER_01: everything's chopped up into little paddocks and pastures and things.
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SPEAKER_01: And nobody, there was no opportunity.
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SPEAKER_01: So I had him farmed out to people I trusted.
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SPEAKER_01: And then I brought him back when he was four and a half.
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SPEAKER_01: And
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SPEAKER_01: And he and Gray were boarded at the same place.
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SPEAKER_01: Really?
15:02
SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
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SPEAKER_01: Next to each other.
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SPEAKER_01: Their stalls were next to each other.
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SPEAKER_01: And whenever I would ride this young stallion,
15:08
SPEAKER_01: when I started him,
15:10
SPEAKER_01: you know,
15:10
SPEAKER_01: I started him within everything.
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SPEAKER_01: And there were mares not very far from the unfenced arena.
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There were mares that belonged to somebody at the next door
15:23
neighbor's farm.
15:24
And they would all come to see the young stallion,
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of course,
15:27
when I would bring him out.
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SPEAKER_01: because mares know when there are stallions around.
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SPEAKER_01: And Gray had free run of the place.
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SPEAKER_01: He had that privilege that elder famous horses get.
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The owner of the farm was aware of that,
15:41
and Gray had free run of the place.
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SPEAKER_01: And Gray would come from wherever he was,
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and he would stand up on the little hill where that fence was
15:50
between those mares
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SPEAKER_01: and Gideon,
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SPEAKER_01: and he would watch our entire session.
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SPEAKER_01: And he would help me.
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SPEAKER_01: And I'd say, Gray, tell Gideon about such a just a judge.
15:58
SPEAKER_01: And then Gideon would start doing it.
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SPEAKER_00: Wow.
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SPEAKER_01: That's very cool.
16:03
SPEAKER_01: No, he coached Gideon, there's no doubt about it.
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SPEAKER_00: And when did you realize that Gideon was here to lead you into a deeper
16:13
SPEAKER_00: understanding of the connections?
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SPEAKER_00: Okay, that is...
16:18
SPEAKER_01: There was a definite moment.
16:20
SPEAKER_01: There were two moments.
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SPEAKER_01: So let me know he was different than, I mean, well, three.
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SPEAKER_01: When he was born, he, I guess destiny had him like halfway out.
16:29
SPEAKER_01: So the head and the four quarters were out and she took a break.
16:33
So I broke the sack so he could breathe just in case the
16:37
umbilical cord was caught anywhere.
16:39
He looked me right in the eyes when I broke that sack and I
16:43
heard in my head,
16:45
SPEAKER_01: here I am and I'm here for you.
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So that was a moment that gave me quite a bit of pause that
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this newly born creature,
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SPEAKER_01: whoa,
16:55
SPEAKER_01: how strong is that?
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SPEAKER_01: He named himself Gideon and everybody laughed and made fun of him saying,
17:05
SPEAKER_01: oh,
17:05
he's going to be in the bedside table at every hotel because of
17:09
the Gideon Bible.
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SPEAKER_01: I mean, this was West Virginia, you know, it was people just-
17:17
SPEAKER_00: They just didn't take to that name.
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SPEAKER_00: I had made a joke before the kitten.
17:22
And I just recently got a kitten who was pre-named Gideon
17:26
before he arrived.
17:28
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
17:29
SPEAKER_00: And I have been joking about putting him in a drawer.
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SPEAKER_01: Oh, no, don't do that.
17:35
SPEAKER_00: So I'll stop joking with him.
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SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
17:38
SPEAKER_01: Joking.
17:40
SPEAKER_01: Human joking is not understood by babies or animals or the universe.
17:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
17:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00: What do you think it is about humans?
17:49
SPEAKER_00: What part of us feels that need to make the jokes?
17:53
I think it's a form of we don't feel we can say what we truly
17:59
want to say.
18:00
SPEAKER_01: So we make a joke.
18:02
SPEAKER_01: We make it a joke.
18:03
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I'm just joking when I say this.
18:06
SPEAKER_01: But it is perceived by others in a hurtful way.
18:11
SPEAKER_01: We're just trained to...
18:13
SPEAKER_01: to tamp those feelings down and not say anything.
18:16
SPEAKER_01: And as I've gotten older, I am on people about that.
18:20
SPEAKER_01: I just don't permit it.
18:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
18:22
SPEAKER_01: Just like, no, that's hurtful.
18:23
SPEAKER_01: That's hurtful joking.
18:25
SPEAKER_01: There is nothing funny about it in any way, shape or form.
18:29
SPEAKER_01: And no, no.
18:31
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't create connection.
18:33
SPEAKER_01: It does the opposite.
18:35
SPEAKER_01: It does the opposite.
18:36
SPEAKER_01: It makes people build defenses or, or resentment.
18:41
lot of resentment comes about animals and the babies and the
18:46
like they just don't
18:47
get that energy no none of it no it doesn't even go in the they
18:52
do not understand
18:53
negatives either like don't do that they only hear the do that
18:58
you know hear the
18:59
SPEAKER_01: don't part so with with Gideon
19:06
SPEAKER_01: When everybody kept laughing at him,
19:07
SPEAKER_01: so he's like a day old now,
19:09
SPEAKER_01: and I say to him,
19:10
SPEAKER_01: you know,
19:11
SPEAKER_01: Ged,
19:12
SPEAKER_01: I really honor your name,
19:14
SPEAKER_01: and I agree that that's your name.
19:15
I said,
19:16
but other humans don't understand it,
19:19
and they're laughing at you.
19:20
SPEAKER_01: And I said, I don't like that.
19:22
SPEAKER_01: So I said, how about this?
19:24
SPEAKER_01: With humans,
19:25
SPEAKER_01: we often have a name,
19:27
SPEAKER_01: but we're given a nickname,
19:28
SPEAKER_01: a different name,
19:30
SPEAKER_01: which is our baby name.
19:34
SPEAKER_01: is how I put it and trying to put it in terms he could understand.
19:37
SPEAKER_01: And I said, I think you need to choose another name.
19:40
SPEAKER_01: So right off the bat,
19:43
SPEAKER_01: I started getting images from that film,
19:46
SPEAKER_01: Dances with Wolves,
19:48
SPEAKER_01: of Kevin Costner on his buckskin horse,
19:50
SPEAKER_01: right?
19:51
And I'm racking my brain trying to think of that horse's name
19:55
in the movie,
19:56
SPEAKER_01: thinking that's what he wanted.
19:58
SPEAKER_01: And he goes, no, no, he says, the man.
20:01
SPEAKER_01: So...
20:03
SPEAKER_01: That character's name was John Dunbar and Gideon was born.
20:07
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
20:08
SPEAKER_01: he is a buckskin,
20:09
but he was much more evidently a buckskin when he was born
20:11
since he's a sooty and
20:13
SPEAKER_01: doesn't look buckskin at all now.
20:15
But so,
20:17
so his name was Dunbar for his first seven years and everybody
20:21
loved Dunbar.
20:22
SPEAKER_01: They thought Dunbar was great.
20:25
SPEAKER_01: And one day I go out to the field and every time I would call him,
20:29
SPEAKER_01: he would come,
20:30
SPEAKER_01: went up to the field and I said,
20:32
SPEAKER_01: Dunbar,
20:32
SPEAKER_01: I'm here.
20:33
SPEAKER_01: And I didn't even get an ear.
20:36
So I called again and he said in my head,
20:41
I'm an adult now and I want my name back.
20:46
So I had to let everybody know at the boarding stable that his
20:49
name was truly
20:50
SPEAKER_01: Gideon and he wasn't going to work with them unless they called him that.
20:53
And of course,
20:54
they thought I was insane until they experienced it for themselves.
20:57
He would just ignore them and not work with them unless they
21:00
called him Gideon.
21:02
SPEAKER_01: So that was one door opener.
21:04
SPEAKER_01: And the second one was when this little child,
21:09
SPEAKER_01: had to be about three,
21:10
SPEAKER_01: walked up behind us at the boarding stable.
21:13
SPEAKER_01: She was there with somebody else.
21:15
SPEAKER_01: And I don't know how they lost sight of her, but they did.
21:17
SPEAKER_01: And this little kid walks up with this leaf in her hand, just a leaf.
21:22
SPEAKER_01: And she says, can I give this to your horse?
21:24
SPEAKER_01: And I said, sure, thinking she'd come up front.
21:27
SPEAKER_01: No, she stood right by his hawk and offered this leaf.
21:31
SPEAKER_01: And Gideon,
21:32
SPEAKER_01: very,
21:33
SPEAKER_01: very,
21:33
SPEAKER_01: very carefully,
21:34
SPEAKER_01: without moving his tail or anything,
21:36
SPEAKER_01: reached around and took that leaf so gently from her little tiny fingers.
21:41
SPEAKER_01: And I thought, OK.
21:44
SPEAKER_01: And then on Gray's 30th birthday party,
21:47
SPEAKER_01: that was in 2000,
21:49
SPEAKER_01: I offered as a party favor pony rides on Gideon.
21:54
where i led gideon and i put the western saddle on him and
21:58
people could just and i
21:59
just lead them around a little bit and then they could say they
22:01
wrote a stallion
22:02
right which made them feel great and and everything was going
22:07
great until the very
22:08
last person who was the mother of one of the you know other
22:12
kids aborted there and
22:14
she got on and i started to lead gideon and he planted his feet
22:18
and would not move
22:19
SPEAKER_01: and i said get come on you know this is the i'm thinking he's tired
22:23
SPEAKER_01: And I said, this is the last person.
22:25
SPEAKER_01: Well, please, could you?
22:28
SPEAKER_01: And he said, oh, no, that's not the problem.
22:30
SPEAKER_01: He said, she's frightened.
22:32
SPEAKER_01: And I looked back at her and I thought, she doesn't look frightened.
22:38
So I walked up to her and I put my hand on her thigh and I said,
22:42
how are you feeling right now?
22:43
SPEAKER_01: And she said, honestly, I'm scared to death.
22:46
SPEAKER_01: I didn't know that, but he knew that.
22:49
SPEAKER_01: And he knew it would be inappropriate to carry her.
22:53
And that turned me onto a whole nother area of Gideon about
22:58
what a caretaker he was
23:00
of humans and how respectful he was of our feelings and how
23:05
important it was to him
23:06
SPEAKER_01: that we understand and work with our feelings.
23:10
So I helped her feel more confident and he walked right off
23:15
with her and she had a good time.
23:17
SPEAKER_01: But that really put me on notice.
23:20
SPEAKER_01: And that's how we ended up eventually
23:23
SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's a lot more to it than that.
23:26
He had to kick my butt a couple of times to get me out of my
23:30
own patterns.
23:32
But we wound up doing life coaching together and spiritual
23:35
coaching together
23:37
SPEAKER_01: because that's what he came here for.
23:39
SPEAKER_01: It's interesting.
23:40
SPEAKER_01: I always felt like Gray was my vehicle, so to speak, to gain
23:49
respect in the world so that people you know and recognition in
23:53
the world and i
23:54
realized very quickly that i was gideon's vehicle for the same
23:59
purpose that so he
24:01
could reach a wider audience of people because anybody who
24:06
meets him is just like
24:07
SPEAKER_01: whoa he's like he's like a buddhist monk in a horse's body and i said
24:14
And I feel that across the screen just by following the words
24:18
that you share on the
24:19
SPEAKER_00: internet that he gifts the world.
24:23
SPEAKER_00: And we live in such a cool time in the horse world.
24:26
SPEAKER_00: There's so many changes that are being made
24:29
SPEAKER_00: that are coming together,
24:30
SPEAKER_00: it feels like,
24:32
that a lot of those who have been doing deeper soul work in the background,
24:37
SPEAKER_00: there's space for them coming forward now.
24:40
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
24:41
SPEAKER_00: What are you experiencing?
24:43
Because you have lived the most traditional type of
24:47
horsemanship to whatever it is
24:50
SPEAKER_00: that the horse industry is turning into now.
24:53
SPEAKER_00: Tell me a little bit about that from your perspective.
24:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
24:56
it's been an interesting journey to watch it unfold and to
25:00
understand how deep the
25:03
longing has always been from horse people to experience horses
25:09
in a different way.
25:11
SPEAKER_01: That soul bond, that heart and soul bond.
25:16
People didn't feel like they could express it because the
25:19
traditional horse
25:20
SPEAKER_01: industry poo-pooed it because horses were utilitarian bodies.
25:25
vehicles you know and they were dumb animals so many people
25:31
were are attracted to
25:32
horses because of what they represent freedom grace beauty and
25:38
being who they truly
25:39
are we long for those ourselves and yet society looks oh frowns
25:47
upon that because
25:48
you know if you're being who you truly are well then you're not
25:51
easily controlled
25:53
SPEAKER_01: and if you're being who you really are you might
25:56
SPEAKER_01: be experienced as being uncomfortable for other people.
26:00
SPEAKER_01: And so that gets squashed very early on in childhood for most folks.
26:08
SPEAKER_01: It gets squashed.
26:08
SPEAKER_01: You have to be like everybody else or you won't survive.
26:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
26:13
SPEAKER_01: And I never bought into that,
26:15
but I had to do it very surreptitiously because otherwise I
26:19
wouldn't have survived
26:20
SPEAKER_01: being born into a military family.
26:24
SPEAKER_01: Control was everything.
26:27
SPEAKER_01: I just learned to be sneaky.
26:28
And that's how I got through the whole team experience was just
26:31
being sneaky.
26:32
SPEAKER_01: I would say, yes, sir.
26:34
SPEAKER_01: And then I go do what I knew I needed to do with Gray.
26:36
SPEAKER_00: And by team, you're talking about the U.S.
26:40
SPEAKER_00: equestrian team.
26:41
SPEAKER_01: Yes, the U.S.
26:43
SPEAKER_01: eventing, the U.S.
26:45
SPEAKER_01: three-day event team.
26:46
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
26:46
SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
26:48
SPEAKER_00: And that was purely coming out of military traditions, correct?
26:53
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
26:54
SPEAKER_01: I knew how to handle that.
26:55
Everybody else was like,
26:56
and I thought,
26:57
no,
26:58
you just are polite and you say,
26:59
yes,
26:59
sir.
27:00
SPEAKER_01: And then you go do what you need to do as long as it's,
27:03
SPEAKER_01: you know,
27:03
SPEAKER_01: well,
27:04
SPEAKER_01: and,
27:04
SPEAKER_01: and Jack,
27:05
SPEAKER_01: Jack would go off the coach.
27:08
SPEAKER_01: I really had a lot of respect for him.
27:09
SPEAKER_01: He really knew what he was doing.
27:11
SPEAKER_01: He wasn't now that I know more about,
27:15
SPEAKER_01: dressage, he wasn't the best teacher.
27:18
He knew what to do himself,
27:20
but he wasn't trained by being told what to do.
27:24
He was trained by riding horses on the lunge for years and
27:27
figuring out how to sit.
27:29
SPEAKER_01: So that didn't make it good.
27:33
SPEAKER_01: Anyway, I'm digressing.
27:34
SPEAKER_01: Let me just see if I can continue.
27:36
SPEAKER_00: There's so much.
27:37
SPEAKER_00: I feel like I could talk to you for six weeks and we wouldn't.
27:41
SPEAKER_00: There is a lot.
27:42
SPEAKER_00: I have lived a lot in these
27:45
SPEAKER_00: more than seven decades.
27:47
And it's that making that transition from having lived the
27:52
experience of the horse
27:53
SPEAKER_00: world being extraordinarily traditional from military traditions.
27:58
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yes.
27:59
And then into the space that we're at now where people are
28:03
softening into looking
28:04
SPEAKER_00: at horses from a different way.
28:06
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
28:06
SPEAKER_00: And being vocal about it.
28:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
28:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
28:08
SPEAKER_01: And being vocal about it.
28:09
SPEAKER_01: So back then,
28:12
SPEAKER_01: if I got asked a direct question by,
28:15
SPEAKER_01: say,
28:15
SPEAKER_01: John Strasburger,
28:16
SPEAKER_01: the editor of the Chronicle of the Horse,
28:18
I have heard that you talk to Gray and tell him the course the
28:21
night before.
28:22
SPEAKER_01: And I would say, yes, yes, I do.
28:24
SPEAKER_01: That is exactly what I do.
28:26
SPEAKER_01: And then, of course, I got the reputation.
28:28
SPEAKER_01: Well,
28:28
and I was into homeopathy and chiropractic and massage and
28:33
acupuncture and lasers,
28:35
SPEAKER_01: all that stuff.
28:36
SPEAKER_01: I've always been a pioneer out there.
28:40
on the forefront it's a lonely road and everybody just says oh
28:43
you're a wacko but
28:46
SPEAKER_01: wow you know the horses did for me so now now watching things starting to
28:55
witnessing the change and the bumpy road that happened you know
29:00
through that and
29:01
SPEAKER_01: how
29:02
People would make claims and everybody would buy into it,
29:05
but it was still a method.
29:06
You can't have a methodology because every horse is unique any
29:10
more than you can
29:11
SPEAKER_01: have a methodology with humans.
29:14
You can't do that because we're all different and we all have
29:18
different learning patterns.
29:19
SPEAKER_01: And oh, gee, horses have different learning patterns too.
29:22
SPEAKER_01: Who knew?
29:22
I find that in today's world,
29:26
sometimes we can go overboard and there are people who are
29:32
SPEAKER_01: They put the, oh, here, Gideon's coming through.
29:34
SPEAKER_01: They put their horses on a pedestal and they worship them.
29:38
SPEAKER_01: The horse knows everything.
29:41
SPEAKER_01: Our job is to stay out of the horse's way.
29:43
SPEAKER_01: This is what people think.
29:45
SPEAKER_01: And they love their horse and they think because in humanity,
29:50
SPEAKER_01: as a predator species and through all the ethnic groups,
29:57
SPEAKER_01: especially women,
29:58
SPEAKER_01: well,
29:59
SPEAKER_01: and a lot of men too,
30:00
SPEAKER_01: who use food as a way of showing love.
30:05
SPEAKER_01: And that's, horses don't do that.
30:07
Horses don't do that when they don't like take a bite of grass
30:10
and hand it to
30:10
SPEAKER_01: another horse when they have a deep bond.
30:13
SPEAKER_01: That's not what they do.
30:14
SPEAKER_01: They trust one another.
30:16
That's what makes them have a deeper bond is through trust and
30:20
reliance and
30:23
And knowing that that horse is going to be who that horse is on
30:26
the inside all the time.
30:28
SPEAKER_00: What I hear Gideon saying here,
30:30
SPEAKER_00: and I don't mean to cut you off,
30:31
SPEAKER_00: but we're all following the thought of how we got from there to there.
30:37
What I hear him saying is on the flip side of that horse is the
30:42
utilitarian tool
30:44
SPEAKER_00: here to do what we need them to do.
30:47
On the flip side of that is putting the horse on a pedestal
30:50
where we're basically
30:51
SPEAKER_00: feeding them human,
30:52
SPEAKER_00: our human projections and calling that love.
30:55
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
30:57
SPEAKER_01: Does that sound right?
30:58
SPEAKER_01: Exactly right.
30:58
SPEAKER_01: And calling it love.
31:00
SPEAKER_01: And we worship them.
31:01
SPEAKER_01: He says it becomes a form of worship.
31:04
SPEAKER_01: And he said, that's just wrong.
31:05
SPEAKER_01: We don't like it.
31:07
SPEAKER_01: And you're going to get hurt doing that.
31:10
SPEAKER_01: That is not cool.
31:12
Everybody,
31:13
every single creature put on a pedestal falls because no one is perfect.
31:18
SPEAKER_01: Horses certainly aren't perfect.
31:20
SPEAKER_01: And they're not going to be the projection of human love.
31:24
SPEAKER_01: They're going to be themselves.
31:27
SPEAKER_01: And you can't buy a horse's love.
31:30
SPEAKER_01: That just does not work.
31:31
SPEAKER_01: You cannot do it.
31:33
And do you find in a lot of the cases that you have worked with
31:39
or has crossed your
31:39
SPEAKER_00: way of the tough ones,
31:42
do you find that humans use that projected love in a kind of
31:47
subconscious excuse to
31:48
SPEAKER_00: not have to do the work on themselves?
31:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
31:54
Because it couldn't be coming from them because the horse is a
31:58
lesser being,
31:59
but they're not.
32:03
SPEAKER_01: All beings have equal importance in the universe.
32:08
SPEAKER_01: All beings,
32:10
SPEAKER_01: no matter how tiny even,
32:13
SPEAKER_01: all beings have,
32:14
SPEAKER_01: all beings,
32:15
SPEAKER_01: so I'm just going to say this out loud,
32:17
SPEAKER_01: are sentient.
32:18
SPEAKER_01: They're sentient.
32:19
SPEAKER_01: All beings are sentient.
32:20
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
32:21
I can't tell you how many times I've rescued a bee that's born
32:26
out of season or
32:28
SPEAKER_01: gotten exhausted or whatever,
32:30
SPEAKER_01: or,
32:30
SPEAKER_01: you know,
32:30
SPEAKER_01: I find them in various places.
32:33
SPEAKER_01: And I give them a little something to revive them.
32:36
SPEAKER_01: And they never, ever fly away without stopping to look up.
32:41
SPEAKER_01: And you feel this wave of thanks that come from them.
32:46
SPEAKER_00: I have had the same experience with bees.
32:48
SPEAKER_00: And it's not glowing to me.
32:50
SPEAKER_00: Like, it's so direct.
32:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, bees are pretty special beings.
32:55
SPEAKER_01: They're very special beings.
32:56
SPEAKER_01: There's an incredible book I'll let you know about later.
33:01
SPEAKER_01: It's a book written by bees through their beekeeper.
33:06
SPEAKER_01: So she has a chapter and then she gives the bees input to her about that.
33:14
SPEAKER_00: That's mind-blowing.
33:17
I would love to link to any book in the notes for this that
33:22
you'd like to spread
33:24
SPEAKER_00: out and let people know about in the world.
33:26
So after we finish up today,
33:29
I would love if you would send me a list of things to link to.
33:32
And this was,
33:33
I have so many,
33:35
so many questions that I wanted to explore with you.
33:38
SPEAKER_00: And again,
33:38
SPEAKER_00: like,
33:39
SPEAKER_00: and this is,
33:39
SPEAKER_00: we need to sit down more than just one day,
33:41
but what would you say to someone who's curious about going
33:48
deeper into their,
33:50
SPEAKER_00: their connection with other sentient creatures other than humans,
33:56
SPEAKER_00: but are skeptical of messages that they're receiving?
34:01
SPEAKER_01: Ah,
34:02
SPEAKER_01: That's a part of learning to trust your inner voice and your own self,
34:08
SPEAKER_01: who you truly are,
34:11
SPEAKER_01: which is so discouraged in our society,
34:14
SPEAKER_01: but is necessary for the welfare of this planet.
34:19
Well,
34:19
welfare of your own sanity,
34:22
of the planet's health and our whole place in the universe.
34:27
SPEAKER_01: It's really important.
34:28
SPEAKER_01: So we're like, oh, I couldn't be hearing that.
34:32
SPEAKER_01: But you know you did.
34:34
SPEAKER_01: Because it feels different.
34:36
SPEAKER_01: It feels different.
34:38
SPEAKER_01: Our mind will block stuff like that.
34:43
SPEAKER_01: And it'll bring up self-doubt and self-worth and all of that stuff.
34:50
SPEAKER_01: But if we just trust and accept and act upon that,
34:57
SPEAKER_01: Then we find, oh, yeah, that is true.
35:01
SPEAKER_01: That is true.
35:02
SPEAKER_01: And then we begin to build from there.
35:04
And then that has ramifications throughout your entire life,
35:07
which is very cool.
35:10
And I often go back to the thought of Pascal's wager of living
35:15
as if you believe
35:17
SPEAKER_00: something to test whether it is there or not.
35:21
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
35:21
And that's what I found to be true in my own life as I've gone
35:26
as deep as I have up
35:27
SPEAKER_00: to this point.
35:28
SPEAKER_00: And I want to go so much deeper.
35:30
with my understanding of the direct communications that's
35:32
coming from particularly
35:33
the horses but all the animals around me is just like you said
35:39
this this there's
35:41
this resonance that is so different yes that feels like your
35:46
your cells feel it
35:47
like that felt right uh-huh yeah it resonates with you yeah
35:52
that's a a wonderful
35:53
SPEAKER_01: word resonance yes that's the precise word when did you
35:59
SPEAKER_00: start to go deeper with Gideon.
36:02
And let me say,
36:03
ask,
36:04
did you care what other people thought in the beginning?
36:08
SPEAKER_01: No.
36:09
SPEAKER_01: By that time,
36:12
I had gotten to the point where it was so clear to me that what
36:18
he was saying was
36:20
SPEAKER_01: the truth.
36:21
SPEAKER_01: And I knew that he,
36:25
SPEAKER_01: you know,
36:25
SPEAKER_01: I was just so clear that he had come to me because I could be his voice.
36:29
SPEAKER_01: I have had to work through very low self-esteem issues because,
36:34
SPEAKER_01: you know,
36:34
I was brought up that I was a piece of garbage and stupid and
36:38
all of these things.
36:39
SPEAKER_01: And so no matter what I accomplished in the outer world,
36:41
SPEAKER_01: the inner voice was still putting me down all the time.
36:45
SPEAKER_01: I am an empath, a very strong empath.
36:48
SPEAKER_01: And so unfortunately I was
36:50
SPEAKER_01: drawn to partners who were narcissists.
36:55
SPEAKER_01: And so that squashed me even further.
36:57
And in one of those times when I was really like down in the
37:04
mud at the deepest
37:06
SPEAKER_01: part of the dank pond internally,
37:09
SPEAKER_01: Gideon threw me and he threw me so hard that I actually,
37:14
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if I somersault,
37:16
SPEAKER_01: somebody did observe it,
37:17
SPEAKER_01: but I came down
37:20
SPEAKER_01: from a great height on my knees,
37:23
SPEAKER_01: which was not lost to me,
37:24
SPEAKER_01: the implications of that,
37:25
SPEAKER_01: that I was on my knees.
37:28
SPEAKER_01: Humility.
37:30
SPEAKER_01: He ended up cracking the head of my femur, that accident.
37:35
SPEAKER_01: And I had to be non-weight bearing for six weeks.
37:38
SPEAKER_01: So as I was sitting in my room,
37:41
SPEAKER_01: not able to go outside and do things,
37:44
SPEAKER_01: he started,
37:44
SPEAKER_01: that's when he started downloading messages to me.
37:49
SPEAKER_01: And he said, when you get better, you must go learn more.
37:56
SPEAKER_01: He said, you must go learn more so we can do this work together.
37:59
SPEAKER_01: We have to help people.
38:01
SPEAKER_01: We have to shift this paradigm and you need to go learn more.
38:05
SPEAKER_01: So I started,
38:07
SPEAKER_01: there were two,
38:08
SPEAKER_01: there was a program on TV then,
38:11
SPEAKER_01: which I can't remember the name of,
38:13
SPEAKER_01: but there were two life coaches in it.
38:15
SPEAKER_01: One focused on the mental aspect of fear
38:18
And the other was focused on spirituality and connecting to the
38:23
divine within yourself.
38:25
And so I went to workshops by both those women when I healed to
38:30
decide which one I
38:32
SPEAKER_01: wanted to work with and chose the spiritual path.
38:36
SPEAKER_01: The other one was just like gobbledygook with a spirit.
38:39
SPEAKER_01: That Yanla Van Zandt is the name of the woman,
38:43
SPEAKER_01: a black lady from the streets of New York who has risen to great fame.
38:49
And wow,
38:51
she ran a really tough two years,
38:53
two years of brutal life coaching school.
38:58
Because,
39:00
you know,
39:00
you can't say,
39:01
oh,
39:01
this is how I'm going to help fix people.
39:03
SPEAKER_01: No, you have to fix yourself.
39:04
SPEAKER_01: You have to fix yourself first and understand yourself first.
39:10
SPEAKER_01: So then you're speaking from experience, not from your head or books.
39:15
SPEAKER_01: You're speaking from experience.
39:16
So I went through moaning and groaning and bitching the whole
39:20
time as to how hard it was.
39:23
SPEAKER_01: You had an initiation.
39:26
SPEAKER_01: Oh, it was for sure.
39:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was for sure.
39:29
That's when I knew that this was all for real and his messages
39:34
were coming through more.
39:35
SPEAKER_01: And even there in that school,
39:37
SPEAKER_01: I had to stay true to my own self and carve my own path because people...
39:43
SPEAKER_01: I didn't tell them that I had been on the United States equestrian team.
39:49
I didn't tell them about the death of my daughter right away
39:52
because I had found
39:53
SPEAKER_01: that when I share those with people who don't know me,
39:59
SPEAKER_01: then I get put in a box.
40:02
SPEAKER_01: I get it put in a box.
40:04
SPEAKER_01: And I didn't want to be that way.
40:06
SPEAKER_01: I just wanted to be me.
40:07
SPEAKER_01: I wanted to find me without labels.
40:11
SPEAKER_01: And then when they somehow it came out about these things,
40:14
SPEAKER_01: then everybody was like mad at me for withholding information.
40:17
SPEAKER_01: And I said, no, you don't understand why I did that.
40:21
SPEAKER_01: So I just had to work my way through all of that.
40:24
And thank you for leading the way with the mention of your
40:28
daughter's death,
40:30
because is there anything that you would like to share in what
40:34
we're talking about today?
40:35
SPEAKER_00: Or is that a subject that is its own separate thing?
40:38
But is there anything about her loss that led you deeper to
40:44
your ability to communicate?
40:46
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
40:48
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
40:49
SPEAKER_01: Because Andy and I were, I mean, she is...
40:53
SPEAKER_01: my human soulmate in this lifetime.
40:58
Andy was abducted and missing for three months and found
41:04
murdered when she was 18.
41:06
SPEAKER_01: So I had 18 astounding years where we were just like twin souls.
41:12
Well,
41:13
when she hit 13,
41:14
we got to a rough patch,
41:15
but that was to be expected.
41:19
SPEAKER_00: They turn into different creatures at 13.
41:21
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, we all do.
41:24
SPEAKER_01: Horses too.
41:25
Every being when it gets to that adolescent phase is like,
41:28
ah,
41:29
we will survive this.
41:31
SPEAKER_01: In the depths,
41:32
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
41:34
there are no words for the profundity of the depth of grief and
41:39
loss that come in
41:41
SPEAKER_01: those situations.
41:42
SPEAKER_01: And in mine, I was kind of desperate to connect with her and I couldn't.
41:48
SPEAKER_01: And other people were connecting with her.
41:52
Sometimes people who didn't even know her and they said,
41:54
Andy asked me to give you a message.
41:56
And then I went on a retreat,
42:02
a two week silent retreat,
42:05
which was just amazing and wonderful.
42:07
I recommend them to anybody to be silent and not speak to other
42:12
people for two
42:12
SPEAKER_01: weeks is astounding.
42:14
SPEAKER_01: And no screen, you know, no, no communication with the outside world.
42:19
SPEAKER_01: And then she started,
42:21
I got quiet enough in my own self that she was able to
42:25
communicate with me and in meditation.
42:28
And she made it really clear to me that it was my grief that
42:30
was blocking us from
42:32
SPEAKER_01: being able to communicate.
42:34
SPEAKER_01: And so it's kind of grown from there.
42:38
SPEAKER_01: So she's not a constant presence, but she's available if I connect.
42:48
SPEAKER_01: And then a subject for another time, I had a near death experience.
42:55
SPEAKER_01: And we actually got to be together for that amount of time.
42:59
SPEAKER_01: But that's another.
43:01
SPEAKER_01: But that did also deepen our connection and our ability to communicate,
43:07
SPEAKER_01: which went across the board to Gideon as well.
43:10
SPEAKER_01: I mean, Gideon is a constant presence in the back of my mind.
43:16
It's like,
43:17
you know,
43:17
and he only tunes in and says something if it's something
43:21
catches him.
43:22
You know,
43:22
like when he popped in here,
43:24
it's like,
43:24
this is the pedestal thing.
43:26
SPEAKER_01: He's like, we can't stand that when people do that to us.
43:30
SPEAKER_01: We need help.
43:32
SPEAKER_01: He says, you know, we need help.
43:33
SPEAKER_01: We need input.
43:34
SPEAKER_01: We need guidance.
43:38
And right from the beginning,
43:39
you know,
43:40
I used to call myself,
43:41
as many women do or men,
43:44
the mom.
43:45
SPEAKER_01: I'm my horse's mom.
43:47
And right from the very first time I ever said that,
43:49
he said,
43:49
you're not my mom.
43:51
SPEAKER_01: Destiny is my mom.
43:53
SPEAKER_01: You're my person.
43:55
So he has always viewed us as equal partners and not any other relationship.
44:01
SPEAKER_01: We're equal partners.
44:03
SPEAKER_00: I always have a weird aversion to calling,
44:08
SPEAKER_00: I'll be in conversation with someone and they'll be like,
44:10
SPEAKER_00: well,
44:10
SPEAKER_00: you're so-and-so animal's mom.
44:12
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, it just feels wrong.
44:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it feels wrong to me now.
44:17
SPEAKER_01: You know, it didn't before because it was just kind of an accepted thing.
44:22
SPEAKER_01: But boy,
44:23
SPEAKER_01: once Gideon said,
44:24
SPEAKER_01: and he was right off the,
44:25
SPEAKER_01: when he was very young,
44:26
SPEAKER_01: he was like,
44:27
SPEAKER_01: no,
44:27
SPEAKER_01: what are you talking about?
44:30
SPEAKER_00: You're not my mom.
44:31
SPEAKER_01: No.
44:31
SPEAKER_01: And that's always his answer.
44:33
SPEAKER_01: If I, if I would slip, you know, he'd be like, nope, destiny is my mom.
44:39
SPEAKER_01: No, you're, you're my person.
44:41
What advice do you have for someone who is curious about going
44:46
deeper and learning
44:49
SPEAKER_00: to trust their voice?
44:50
And I know that that's such a multifaceted question because I
44:54
think about my own
44:55
SPEAKER_00: journey has been,
44:57
years of paring away my old cycles years of of of and and will
45:05
continue for the
45:06
rest of my life yes this journey into myself and my core what
45:12
advice do you have
45:13
for someone who's curious about this that wants to start
45:17
exploring things in a
45:19
SPEAKER_01: deeper way I would say start and Gideon is is here or
45:25
SPEAKER_01: affirming that.
45:26
SPEAKER_01: Start by paying attention to your inner voice.
45:31
That little voice that says things that you're like,
45:36
oh,
45:36
that can't be real.
45:38
Start experimenting with not only as Iyanla Van Zandt said in
45:42
class one day,
45:43
SPEAKER_01: not only listening to it,
45:45
SPEAKER_01: but obeying it.
45:47
SPEAKER_01: That's the key.
45:49
SPEAKER_01: That you don't just hear it and say, okay, and then ignore it.
45:55
but say,
45:55
all right,
45:58
maybe you're driving along and it says,
46:00
turn right here.
46:01
SPEAKER_01: So you start practicing that stuff and you turn right and nothing,
46:07
you might find something cool or you might see something
46:10
beautiful or nothing at
46:13
SPEAKER_01: all might happen in your perception.
46:16
SPEAKER_01: But just the act of obeying it, that your inner voice starts to give,
46:24
the blocks inside you permission to start melting away so that
46:30
you can connect more deeply.
46:32
SPEAKER_01: And as you begin to connect more deeply and trust your own self,
46:37
then you can start to trust what you might perceive from the
46:41
outside as coming from
46:43
SPEAKER_01: the outside.
46:44
SPEAKER_01: Because we're all connected.
46:47
SPEAKER_01: We are, you know, every single spiritual practice
46:51
SPEAKER_01: That is a common thing.
46:52
SPEAKER_01: We are all one.
46:55
SPEAKER_01: That's truth.
46:56
And you begin to experience that because I don't know why
47:01
humanity decided to
47:02
SPEAKER_01: separate itself from that web of connection with a capital C,
47:08
SPEAKER_01: but we did.
47:10
SPEAKER_01: And it has just, we've been a miserable species ever since.
47:15
SPEAKER_00: I don't know why it's so important to me to know the why.
47:18
As you were saying that,
47:19
I was like,
47:20
do the animals have any advice for us on why we did that?
47:24
SPEAKER_00: But the why of my separation hounds me.
47:32
SPEAKER_01: I'm not getting anything other than that is not important at this stage.
47:38
SPEAKER_01: What's important is to reconnect.
47:41
SPEAKER_01: And the first part of that is seeing other things as sentient,
47:44
understanding that trees can talk to you and you can talk to
47:49
trees and stones and leaves,
47:52
SPEAKER_01: anything can be.
47:53
SPEAKER_01: We're all made of atoms.
47:55
SPEAKER_01: We're all made of the same atoms.
47:58
SPEAKER_01: So we're all, you know, quantum physics has proven this.
48:03
SPEAKER_01: Yes, but it's not widely believed and practiced because once again,
48:09
SPEAKER_01: there's a loss of control and people really fear the loss of control.
48:16
SPEAKER_00: I think about like the Gnostic texts or the lost Bible texts.
48:23
SPEAKER_00: Mary Magdalene's.
48:25
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
48:26
SPEAKER_00: And I'm going to link to the Mary Magdalene book in the notes for this.
48:33
SPEAKER_00: It's just so amazing.
48:36
SPEAKER_00: But talking about,
48:37
SPEAKER_00: and I can't remember which Gnostic text it was,
48:41
SPEAKER_00: but lifting a stone and you'll find me.
48:44
SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
48:46
I just in my own life have experienced being raised in
48:53
traditions where absolutely
48:56
SPEAKER_00: no animals cannot have souls.
48:58
SPEAKER_00: And at this point, after, you know, it's 50 years.
49:04
SPEAKER_00: where I can have a conversation with somebody from a very traditional,
49:09
SPEAKER_00: a very traditionally religious place,
49:12
SPEAKER_00: where it's not a great error to say that animals have souls.
49:17
SPEAKER_00: So that's wonderful.
49:18
SPEAKER_01: That's wonderful.
49:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
49:21
SPEAKER_01: Because I taught a clinic once in Colorado.
49:23
SPEAKER_01: It was a multi-day clinic.
49:26
SPEAKER_01: And
49:27
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't intensive, actually.
49:29
SPEAKER_01: It went way deeper than a clinic.
49:30
SPEAKER_01: And that evening,
49:31
SPEAKER_01: and in the evening,
49:32
SPEAKER_01: I would show videos that I thought were,
49:34
SPEAKER_01: you know,
49:34
SPEAKER_01: mind bending,
49:36
SPEAKER_01: well,
49:36
SPEAKER_01: not opening,
49:38
SPEAKER_01: mind opening.
49:39
And so I showed a video produced by Dawn Heyman,
49:44
who was one of the early animal communicators.
49:46
SPEAKER_01: And she was giving a talk.
49:48
SPEAKER_01: And so she was talking about,
49:50
and she was telling stories about the animals and her
49:53
experiences and all this.
49:54
SPEAKER_01: And the next day, that woman,
49:57
SPEAKER_01: had gotten up in our,
49:59
SPEAKER_01: she may have even done it in the night,
50:00
but she packed up her horse and she left because animals can't
50:05
talk and they don't
50:05
SPEAKER_01: have souls and they can't think.
50:08
SPEAKER_01: It was that strong.
50:10
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
50:10
SPEAKER_01: she lost her money and everything,
50:12
SPEAKER_01: you know,
50:13
SPEAKER_01: because it was just never heard from her again.
50:17
SPEAKER_01: And she was very much a fan until she realized that I believed in animal
50:21
SPEAKER_01: communication and then gone.
50:23
SPEAKER_01: So that was a hard no.
50:26
SPEAKER_01: It was a hard no.
50:27
SPEAKER_01: And OK, I respect that.
50:30
SPEAKER_01: It was shocking to me, but that's her decision, and I honor that.
50:35
And I think that for those who haven't allowed themselves to
50:40
consider this,
50:42
SPEAKER_00: in a way that fits in with their previous doctrines,
50:48
SPEAKER_00: that it is hard for people to lean into that because it's so incredibly,
50:54
SPEAKER_00: in a lot of ways,
50:55
SPEAKER_00: it's so incredibly easy to explore.
50:58
SPEAKER_00: We just walk outside and open up.
51:00
SPEAKER_01: But if you are taught that the only reality is an authoritarian one,
51:08
SPEAKER_01: that the divine is an angry divine,
51:10
SPEAKER_01: that it's all about
51:11
SPEAKER_01: you know,
51:12
SPEAKER_01: not trespassing,
51:14
SPEAKER_01: but not doing wrong that you have to be on,
51:17
SPEAKER_01: then that is a very scary place to go to,
51:20
SPEAKER_01: to go from utter control to freedom is,
51:26
SPEAKER_01: that's a big leap.
51:28
And so it can take a while or maybe not at all because
51:34
everybody either comes to
51:36
SPEAKER_01: this or not in their own time.
51:38
SPEAKER_01: There is a timing
51:40
SPEAKER_01: that's involved in it.
51:42
And I'm just so grateful that more and more of the world is
51:46
opening up to the fact
51:48
SPEAKER_01: that this is possible.
51:49
What messages,
51:51
if any,
51:52
does Gideon have for everyone that's listening today?
51:56
SPEAKER_01: Well, he says he's kind of covered it.
51:59
SPEAKER_01: Let me see if there's anything else.
52:01
SPEAKER_01: Hang on a second.
52:01
SPEAKER_01: Heart love, he says.
52:07
So when you have learned to trust what resonates with you and
52:14
you've learned to
52:17
SPEAKER_01: open the doors to your heart and your gut and your mind,
52:23
SPEAKER_01: then you may begin to feel,
52:25
SPEAKER_01: he says,
52:26
in the presence of your horse or dog or cat or any other being
52:32
an all-enveloping
52:36
SPEAKER_01: He says,
52:37
I'm not going to use the word unconditional because he says he
52:40
doesn't like the
52:40
SPEAKER_01: word conditional at all.
52:42
SPEAKER_01: So it's a love like being wrapped in warm tenderness and compassion.
52:53
SPEAKER_01: And he calls that heart love.
52:56
SPEAKER_01: And boy,
52:56
SPEAKER_01: has he spent time seriously training me in that,
53:01
in receiving it and acknowledging in how to radiate it and how
53:07
to be in awareness
53:11
SPEAKER_01: of that,
53:11
SPEAKER_01: no matter what else is going on on the outside.
53:13
SPEAKER_01: I mean, he is just like trained.
53:17
SPEAKER_01: He has a paper.
53:19
SPEAKER_01: One of his papers is a long one, but it's about my process of learning
53:25
that heart love but he said that heart love is what heals
53:29
everything everything he
53:31
said if just more people would tune into the heart love and
53:36
that feeling of
53:37
expansion rather than contraction then he says uh life would be
53:43
far better i guess
53:44
SPEAKER_00: that's the best way i can put it i've only recently
53:48
SPEAKER_00: began to experience that sense.
53:53
SPEAKER_00: And it came after a hard period where a lot of me got shaken loose.
54:00
SPEAKER_00: And on the other side of it,
54:01
SPEAKER_00: I,
54:02
SPEAKER_00: you know,
54:03
SPEAKER_00: there were days with the first time it happened,
54:05
SPEAKER_00: I thought this is a fluke,
54:06
SPEAKER_00: but this sure feels nice.
54:09
And then it would,
54:11
when it repeated,
54:12
I was like,
54:13
what is this weird internal euphoria?
54:17
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
54:19
SPEAKER_00: Not comfortable feeling at peace.
54:24
SPEAKER_00: At first it was kind of this knee jerk.
54:26
SPEAKER_00: I need to push this feeling away.
54:28
SPEAKER_00: This is, we will not get work done with this feeling.
54:31
And the more I'm saying into that idea of it,
54:34
and thank you so much Gideon for giving it a name.
54:39
The more I sink into that,
54:40
oh my gosh,
54:41
it's,
54:43
it,
54:43
it's so internally healing,
54:45
but it,
54:46
I've,
54:47
SPEAKER_00: I feel its effects ripple out to my environment.
54:52
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
54:53
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
54:55
SPEAKER_00: If I can stay in that space, I'm not making my waters any more muddy.
54:59
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
55:00
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
55:01
SPEAKER_01: Well said.
55:02
SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Gideon.
55:06
SPEAKER_01: He's giving you a bow in my mind.
55:08
SPEAKER_01: He's bowing.
55:13
he's grateful for the opportunity to,
55:16
to,
55:17
for those ripples to spread further.
55:19
SPEAKER_00: That's so beautiful.
55:21
SPEAKER_00: So what's next for you and Gideon?
55:23
SPEAKER_00: What, what are you guys, you guys working on anything?
55:25
SPEAKER_00: Are you resting through the winter?
55:27
SPEAKER_00: Are you, are you doing clinics?
55:29
SPEAKER_00: Are you doing books?
55:30
SPEAKER_00: Are you doing any more films?
55:33
SPEAKER_00: Oh,
55:34
SPEAKER_01: well,
55:34
SPEAKER_01: the documentary just,
55:35
SPEAKER_01: you know,
55:36
SPEAKER_01: there's,
55:36
SPEAKER_01: there's a,
55:37
SPEAKER_01: every year there's a brief flurry of work and,
55:42
SPEAKER_01: for like three days or so,
55:44
SPEAKER_01: and then it goes on hold for the,
55:46
SPEAKER_01: you know,
55:46
SPEAKER_01: because,
55:47
SPEAKER_01: because these folks aren't being paid.
55:48
They're just doing it voluntarily and then they have to earn a
55:52
living life intervenes,
55:54
SPEAKER_01: but it's slowly marching forward.
55:59
SPEAKER_01: So there's no,
56:00
SPEAKER_01: that's the only film and then there's books in the work,
56:05
but the time hasn't been right to put it all together yet in
56:09
the way it needs to be
56:10
SPEAKER_01: put together.
56:11
SPEAKER_01: but they're in the works, several of them.
56:15
SPEAKER_01: And Gideon and I just,
56:17
Gideon is plugged into a whole herd of horses all around the
56:22
world who spend time
56:25
SPEAKER_01: holding that space for peace,
56:31
SPEAKER_01: a place of peace.
56:34
SPEAKER_01: And it's the peace that you described that comes with the heart love.
56:39
SPEAKER_01: It's not like absence of conflict.
56:42
SPEAKER_01: It is inner peace, where you're at one with everyone.
56:48
SPEAKER_01: So he's doing,
56:50
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
56:50
SPEAKER_01: Gidd is 31 and a half now,
56:52
SPEAKER_01: and he has compromised ligaments in his hind legs,
56:56
SPEAKER_01: and he has Cushing's disease,
56:58
SPEAKER_01: which is metabolic.
56:59
SPEAKER_01: So he could be very bored and unhappy in his dry lot, which is small.
57:06
But but he isn't because he because he's connected and he's
57:10
connected to people,
57:11
SPEAKER_01: you know,
57:12
like people will say they need help with their horse or or they
57:17
contact us for input.
57:19
SPEAKER_01: And we do all of that type of thing.
57:22
SPEAKER_01: And he has made it very clear to me,
57:24
SPEAKER_01: has been working on that for the last more than a year,
57:30
SPEAKER_01: that when he leaves his physical body,
57:32
SPEAKER_01: he is not leaving.
57:34
at all that it will our connection will only get deeper so
57:37
that's that'll help me
57:39
get through this because we've been together for all these
57:41
years and we've done i
57:43
mean the work that we've done has been well it's gone beyond
57:51
what gray and i did i
57:53
mean all of that going to places and competing and having all
57:57
those experiences was
57:58
SPEAKER_01: amazing and it was awesome and it was phenomenal but to me it's
58:03
SPEAKER_01: The rewards are nothing like where Gideon has taken me.
58:10
I think about when you were with us here at the farm and we
58:15
went deeper than riding,
58:17
but the whole point of our clinic together was to really dive
58:21
deep after you and
58:22
SPEAKER_00: Sarah had connected at the centered riding convention.
58:26
SPEAKER_00: I think it was in Asheville.
58:27
SPEAKER_00: And then you down and teach us.
58:30
SPEAKER_00: And it was crazy how every single weather pattern came through that day.
58:35
SPEAKER_00: Oh my goodness.
58:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
58:37
SPEAKER_00: We had sunshine warmth.
58:39
SPEAKER_00: We had cold.
58:41
SPEAKER_00: It was just like every- Torrential downpour.
58:46
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
58:47
SPEAKER_01: Torrential.
58:51
SPEAKER_01: Run for the awning.
58:53
SPEAKER_01: Torrential.
58:54
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
58:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was amazing.
58:56
SPEAKER_01: So thank you for showing up for us with that.
59:01
SPEAKER_01: I'm an event writer, whether it's not a concern.
59:05
The whole time I was competing at the upper levels,
59:08
I lived in Connecticut and had no indoor.
59:11
SPEAKER_01: So I did all my, you know, I had kids.
59:14
SPEAKER_01: I couldn't go south.
59:16
SPEAKER_01: People didn't do that then anyway.
59:18
SPEAKER_01: We just coped.
59:21
SPEAKER_00: You just adapt and cope.
59:24
And I grew up in the hunter-jumper world,
59:27
but being raised by fox hunters.
59:29
SPEAKER_00: And fox hunters didn't, like, they went out.
59:33
SPEAKER_00: When you go out, you go out.
59:34
SPEAKER_01: It's like eventing.
59:35
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
59:36
SPEAKER_01: This is life.
59:37
SPEAKER_01: You deal with it.
59:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
59:40
SPEAKER_00: So are you and Gideon available for people to contact you for sessions?
59:46
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
59:47
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
59:48
SPEAKER_00: And I'm going to link to all the places that people can find you.
59:52
SPEAKER_00: But I want to sit and marinate in everything that you've said.
59:57
SPEAKER_00: I just want to sink into it.
1:00:00
SPEAKER_00: And I want to have more conversations with you.
1:00:02
But is there anything else that you would like to send out into
1:00:07
the world before we
1:00:08
SPEAKER_00: end our call for today?
1:00:11
SPEAKER_01: Believe.
1:00:11
SPEAKER_01: Just believe in what feels right.
1:00:16
SPEAKER_01: to you and your heart and your gut.
1:00:19
SPEAKER_01: And if your heart and your gut are,
1:00:22
SPEAKER_01: are,
1:00:23
SPEAKER_01: are in discomfort,
1:00:25
SPEAKER_01: pay attention,
1:00:26
SPEAKER_01: pay attention to that and believe enough in,
1:00:32
in the truth of those signals to break old conditioning and
1:00:39
habit patterns and
1:00:40
SPEAKER_01: belief systems and do something different.
1:00:44
that is more in alignment with what you are feeling in your
1:00:47
heart and your gut.
1:00:49
SPEAKER_01: Believe, believe in your own self and your own truth.
1:00:54
I thank you so much for all of this wisdom that you've shared
1:00:58
with us today.
1:00:59
And I thank you so much for agreeing to spend time to sit down
1:01:03
to talk with me.
1:01:04
SPEAKER_01: Oh, well, it's truly been a joy, Kim.
1:01:08
SPEAKER_01: And I look forward to other times should they come forward.
1:01:11
SPEAKER_01: And thank you for the opportunity.
1:01:14
SPEAKER_01: to be able to share everything that I've lived and Gideon is professing.
1:01:22
This conversation with Kim Walness is one that I know I'll be
1:01:26
sitting with for a
1:01:27
SPEAKER_00: very long time,
1:01:29
SPEAKER_00: and I hope you will too.
1:01:31
There's so much to take in from the depth of her journey with
1:01:34
the Grey Goose and
1:01:36
SPEAKER_00: Gideon to the wisdom she carries about trust,
1:01:39
SPEAKER_00: connection,
1:01:40
SPEAKER_00: and the way we truly listen.
1:01:43
SPEAKER_00: If this conversation spoke to you,
1:01:45
SPEAKER_00: I'd love for you to share it with someone who needs to hear it.
1:01:50
SPEAKER_00: And if you want to go deeper,
1:01:51
SPEAKER_00: you can find all the links to connect with Kim Walness,
1:01:55
SPEAKER_00: her work,
1:01:55
SPEAKER_00: and the resources she mentioned in the show notes for this episode.
1:02:01
You can also keep the conversation going with me on social
1:02:05
media or through Stable
1:02:07
SPEAKER_00: Roots on Substack,
1:02:09
SPEAKER_00: where I explore these themes in writing.
1:02:12
SPEAKER_00: And of course,
1:02:13
SPEAKER_00: if you haven't already,
1:02:14
make sure you're subscribed to the podcast so you don't miss
1:02:18
what's coming next.
1:02:20
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for being here,
1:02:21
SPEAKER_00: for listening,
1:02:23
SPEAKER_00: and for being a part of a space where we get to ask big questions,
1:02:27
SPEAKER_00: challenge the old ways of thinking,
1:02:30
SPEAKER_00: and lean into what feels true.
1:02:34
SPEAKER_00: I'll see you next time.
1:02:37
SPEAKER_00: Love Kim