Latest / North Side Territory: A Chicago Cubs Podcast / Viewer’s guide to the last two months of the Cubs season

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Viewer’s guide to the last two months of the Cubs season · North Side Territory: A Chicago Cubs Podcast

0:00
Speaker 1: You have to be confident in this. In sports, right,
0:02
Speaker 1: you have to have this I'm unbeatable mentality, especially baseball
0:07
Speaker 1: will wear you down. Welcome into north Side Territory, Foul
0:14
Speaker 1: Territory Networks Cubs Podcast. I'm Sade Sharma with Patrick Mooney.
0:18
Speaker 1: We're your Cubs beat writers over at the Athletic and
0:21
Speaker 1: we're talking Cubs post trade deadline. Patrick, we did a
0:26
Speaker 1: quick wrap up last night and now it's a let's
0:29
Speaker 1: do a little bit more of a big picture, more
0:32
Speaker 1: overview of what we can expect going forward, what we
0:35
Speaker 1: need to see going forward, what Jed Hoyer needs to
0:38
Speaker 1: see going forward. I think this is the reason to
0:43
Speaker 1: watch games going forward these next two months, is to
0:47
Speaker 1: figure out what they have. What Jed Hoyer can sell
0:51
Speaker 1: to Tom Ricketts. He's going to be sitting in front
0:53
Speaker 1: of us two months from now talking about the off
0:59
Speaker 1: season and the season that was, and how he's going
1:02
Speaker 1: to make this team better and not disappoint in twenty
1:06
Speaker 1: twenty five like they did in twenty twenty four. How
1:09
Speaker 1: is he going to what does he need to see happen?
1:12
Speaker 1: So he has a good sell to Tom Racks to say,
1:14
Speaker 1: invest in me, invest in this team. I think that's
1:18
Speaker 1: the question we need to answer and what we'll be
1:21
Speaker 1: watching for over the next two months.
1:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, no doubt. And I think there's gonna be a
1:28
Speaker 2: lot of ground to cover here. I think I would
1:32
Speaker 2: start with one just because I'm thinking of him, because
1:35
Speaker 2: I'm writing about him, because we talked to him last night.
1:38
Speaker 2: Is Cody Bellinger? Like, is he going to opt in
1:41
Speaker 2: for next year? He had that home run last night.
1:47
Speaker 2: He's still a good, well rounded player, but he hasn't
1:51
Speaker 2: been a star. He hasn't been as healthy as he
1:54
Speaker 2: would have liked to have been so far.
1:57
Speaker 1: This season.
1:58
Speaker 2: And kind of the contours of this season going into
2:04
Speaker 2: it was, you know, the Cubs were not built to sell,
2:08
Speaker 2: they were itching to buy, and like neither one of
2:12
Speaker 2: those things happened. And the assumption was that Cody Bellinger
2:15
Speaker 2: would opt out of his contract after this season, and
2:19
Speaker 2: that is now a little bit more of a question mark.
2:23
Speaker 2: And I think those two things kind of tell you
2:25
Speaker 2: a lot of what you need to know about this
2:27
Speaker 2: team right now that are just kind of stuck, sort
2:29
Speaker 2: of stuck in the middle.
2:32
Speaker 1: That home run, I just I just had to bring
2:34
Speaker 1: it up because I was watching from home and that
2:37
Speaker 1: home run is like a home run and what like
2:40
Speaker 1: five ballparks. It's just so that was just like so
2:43
Speaker 1: prototypical Cody Bellinger twenty twenty three home run, And I
2:49
Speaker 1: mean he needs more of those, right to to opt out,
2:52
Speaker 1: Like that's that's big for him, And I think I
2:54
Speaker 1: think that's a good question as far as what's his
2:57
Speaker 1: future and what's if he opts in I don't think
3:01
Speaker 1: it'd be a disaster because he's a quality player in
3:04
Speaker 1: the Cubs are Like people can talk about the money
3:07
Speaker 1: all they want. The Cubs can handle that like they
3:10
Speaker 1: Like you said it last episode, we need to stop
3:14
Speaker 1: worrying about the Cubs money, like just spend, Like I
3:19
Speaker 1: don't care that he costs thirty million dollars. Teams like
3:22
Speaker 1: the Cubs need to be able to overcome that. If
3:25
Speaker 1: he's not worth thirty million dollars, right, I don't I
3:28
Speaker 1: don't care. It just doesn't matter. You need to win
3:32
Speaker 1: and you need to figure out ways to win. And
3:34
Speaker 1: Cody Bellinger can be worth thirty million dollars. So maybe
3:38
Speaker 1: opting in would be a good thing for the Cubs.
3:41
Speaker 1: If he has a monster season, there's it gives them
3:44
Speaker 1: a lot of options. Right, It would give them a
3:46
Speaker 1: lot of options, just like Paradis gives them options of
3:49
Speaker 1: how to kind of build a team, and you don't
3:52
Speaker 1: need to I think it would be overthinking it to
3:56
Speaker 1: to kind of to be to think that they can't
4:02
Speaker 1: outspend that that contract. If that makes sense, right, I
4:07
Speaker 1: think a big thing that we need to watch, and
4:09
Speaker 1: I don't think it should change any thinking going into
4:13
Speaker 1: the off season outside of of maybe like the second
4:19
Speaker 1: how many catchers you need to get, But it's Miguel
4:21
Speaker 1: Amaya's performance, Like I think you need to be aggressive
4:26
Speaker 1: in the off season to find a catcher. I just
4:30
Speaker 1: I think it's absolutely necessary. It is really hard to
4:35
Speaker 1: find a catcher. I don't know how you do it,
4:38
Speaker 1: to be honest, Like you can find a veteran probably,
4:43
Speaker 1: I don't have the free agent list in front of me.
4:46
Speaker 2: It is I got it up here. I mean you
4:48
Speaker 2: could Danny Jansen. I think you might be a little
4:56
Speaker 2: bit curious if it's not going to get into a
4:59
Speaker 2: range that is very uncomfortable. I'm thinking of the Asmani
5:02
Speaker 2: Grondal type type of deal for a guy who's like,
5:07
Speaker 2: to my understanding, is like a good presence, but not
5:10
Speaker 2: necessarily like a top shelf defensive catcher. Right, you've got Carson,
5:23
Speaker 2: Kelly James.
5:27
Speaker 1: Uh, none of these first.
5:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, as it is, Yeah, Thomas Nido, nar Baiaz, I mean.
5:39
Speaker 1: This is not yeah. This is what they have a
5:42
Speaker 1: lot of what they have. It doesn't change much. Danny
5:47
Speaker 1: Jansen's interesting could probably be league average. Uh. But but
5:51
Speaker 1: I think you need to watch for what Miguel Amaya
5:55
Speaker 1: does and and you know, are these changes legit at
5:59
Speaker 1: the place. How is he handling the pitching staff, how
6:03
Speaker 1: is he handling just catching in general, all the soft factors,
6:07
Speaker 1: all those things matter because whether he's the starter or
6:10
Speaker 1: the backup next year, you need to know what what
6:13
Speaker 1: he can do and and how how aggressively you need
6:17
Speaker 1: to pursue catch catching as a position as a whole.
6:21
Speaker 1: I think it. You know, it's possible he goes into
6:25
Speaker 1: next season as a starter, just because it's so hard
6:27
Speaker 1: to get catching. I think they'd prefer to find a
6:30
Speaker 1: legit starter. I don't know where that guy comes from,
6:33
Speaker 1: That's the question, right. Uh, Like who's giving up a
6:37
Speaker 1: young catcher? Uh? Like who who's who's trading that guy? Uh?
6:43
Speaker 1: The Cubs have a really strong system is there a
6:46
Speaker 1: team with a starting catcher that has the top catching
6:52
Speaker 1: prospect as well? Uh, something like that. Do that that's
6:57
Speaker 1: that's willing to kind of that that's heading towards a
6:59
Speaker 1: re build or willing to go in that direction. Things
7:03
Speaker 1: like that are what they're going to have to look
7:04
Speaker 1: for it because it may take like a Michael Bush
7:07
Speaker 1: situation to address this need because I don't know how
7:09
Speaker 1: you fix it, but it needs to be It needs
7:12
Speaker 1: to be addressed. But it also I think is important
7:15
Speaker 1: over the next two week two months to see what
7:18
Speaker 1: what Miguel Amaya is doing and how he performs.
7:23
Speaker 2: No doubt, I think that's that in the star hitters
7:26
Speaker 2: probably you know, right at the top of the list
7:29
Speaker 2: here dabs from the Rockies name that have been mentioned.
7:32
Speaker 2: When it looks like cups are buyers, is another guy
7:34
Speaker 2: in that mix. Maybe, like you said, do some sort
7:38
Speaker 2: of timeshare and raise the floor a little bit, But
7:43
Speaker 2: like you said, nothing that really moves the needle. I
7:47
Speaker 2: know you're always curious about pitching. I just pulled up
7:52
Speaker 2: here the lengthy Cubs on injured list section of the
7:57
Speaker 2: game notes. Not sure who we're going to see back.
8:03
Speaker 2: I'm not sure how much you can bank on, like
8:05
Speaker 2: anything that you really see once a team is sort
8:09
Speaker 2: of out of it and playing out the string to
8:12
Speaker 2: an extent.
8:13
Speaker 1: But like.
8:15
Speaker 2: Albert Auzala was supposed to get a second opinion yesterday
8:19
Speaker 2: in Chicago, we had not received word yet, but it
8:21
Speaker 2: was described as a significant setback and I'm not really
8:26
Speaker 2: expecting him back this year. That's just my gut feel
8:32
Speaker 2: or just kind of you know, institutional read on how
8:35
Speaker 2: these things usually go for injured pitchers in August. But
8:41
Speaker 2: is Jordan Wicks a guy you can count on? What's
8:44
Speaker 2: up with Ben Brown? Can anyone take an opportunity and
8:48
Speaker 2: run with it the way that Justin Steel did after
8:50
Speaker 2: the twenty one deadline? You mentioned Javier Asad last night
8:56
Speaker 2: or a previous show of guy who sort of looks
8:59
Speaker 2: like he's wearing down, and that I think is gonna
9:05
Speaker 2: be interesting because the Cubs are very good at kind
9:07
Speaker 2: of talking up their pitching and their depth and kind
9:12
Speaker 2: of popping guys onto the radar, But how many are
9:15
Speaker 2: gonna stick the way that to his credit, Mark Lighter
9:20
Speaker 2: Junior did for years. He was just kind of a
9:22
Speaker 2: guy off the scrap heap who really made himself into
9:25
Speaker 2: a guy that the Yankees wanted in a World Series
9:28
Speaker 2: or bust year, Like who who is going to emerge
9:31
Speaker 2: from this? As the Cubs manage the innings over the
9:34
Speaker 2: last two months.
9:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, and these injuries have lingered too. I mean, each
9:39
Speaker 1: one of them has been like, we're not that concerned
9:42
Speaker 1: outside of Lighter, outside of Lighter who they said they
9:47
Speaker 1: weren't concerned, and they were right. Every single one has
9:50
Speaker 1: been worse than expected. Yan Ti Almonte was supposed to
9:53
Speaker 1: be a minimum stay turns into surgery. Hayden Wisnewsky is delayed.
10:00
Speaker 1: I don't think it's serious yet, but it's not a
10:04
Speaker 1: minimum stay. Wish al Zai well AlSi yeah, that was
10:10
Speaker 1: that that became more serious.
10:13
Speaker 2: Ben Brown. So we got good good news on this.
10:16
Speaker 1: Right right, right, and here we are still like what
10:19
Speaker 1: it's like Bullpens right as he faced live hitters. Is
10:22
Speaker 1: he like none of that stuff has happened. It's it's
10:27
Speaker 1: it's taking it's taking a lot longer for these guys
10:30
Speaker 1: to come back. And I understand you don't. I'm not
10:32
Speaker 1: saying they should be rushing them. I'm just saying these
10:35
Speaker 1: injuries are keeping us from getting information keeping more importantly,
10:41
Speaker 1: Jed Hoyer from getting information that is really important for
10:45
Speaker 1: him to be able to do his job in the winter.
10:47
Speaker 1: He needs nearly a full two months to see what
10:51
Speaker 1: these guys are there. They're not going to be back
10:53
Speaker 1: until earliest mid August. I think both of them, if
10:56
Speaker 1: it'll say on when they're eligible to return, right, I
10:59
Speaker 1: think both of them, like Wix and Brown, are like
11:01
Speaker 1: mid August. So this is this is a problem for
11:05
Speaker 1: them where where they need they need more information from
11:08
Speaker 1: these guys and and to have some sort of idea
11:12
Speaker 1: of what they can be. And even then, we saw
11:16
Speaker 1: it with Steel in twenty twenty two, right, that's when
11:20
Speaker 1: they put them in the rotation. It took them a
11:22
Speaker 1: month and a half to become a decent starter. I
11:27
Speaker 1: remember there was talk of like this, should he be
11:29
Speaker 1: removed from the rotation? And and obviously they they stuck
11:34
Speaker 1: with them. I mean, that was a perfect season to
11:36
Speaker 1: to kind of do that. Do you have that kind
11:39
Speaker 1: of patience anymore? Can you afford to have that type
11:42
Speaker 1: of patience? So it's it's really not no.
11:47
Speaker 2: Shot.
11:47
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, So so they gotta they gotta see what
11:50
Speaker 1: they have with these guys over the next two months.
11:55
Speaker 1: I think, you know, I think some young guys, I'm
11:58
Speaker 1: very curious, like with the with the with the prospects,
12:03
Speaker 1: who they're going to be aggressive with, who they who
12:06
Speaker 1: they actually call up, if anyone, And and the three
12:09
Speaker 1: names that I'm going to go back to are So
12:12
Speaker 1: Canario are our buddy, Jesse Rodgers. Uh, he's not going
12:17
Speaker 1: to get his Canario wish. I think he reported Canario
12:20
Speaker 1: was out six weeks with his hamstring injury. Uh, so
12:24
Speaker 1: that's that's a problem there. H Owen, Casey, Moyses, Bia Steros,
12:30
Speaker 1: and Matt Shaw. Matt Shaw's destroying Double A. I would
12:35
Speaker 1: think that Triple A is is close, right, Yeah, I don't.
12:41
Speaker 1: I don't know if that means the big leagues is
12:45
Speaker 1: in his future in September because right the season, the
12:48
Speaker 1: Triple A season is longer now and it goes deeper
12:51
Speaker 1: into September than it used to and as well, right right,
12:56
Speaker 1: I mean, if they if they think it's worthwhile to
12:59
Speaker 1: get him up and get some time, then then they
13:02
Speaker 1: do that. But I think he's the longest shot of
13:05
Speaker 1: that three Moises bid the stairs has like a league
13:08
Speaker 1: average ops at Triple A right now. He got off
13:11
Speaker 1: really hot he's cool down. Uh. And this is what happens.
13:17
Speaker 1: This is the point of not just like a hot
13:20
Speaker 1: two week stretch saying call the guy up. And I
13:22
Speaker 1: know everybody wants to do that, but like he's going
13:25
Speaker 1: to he needs to get back to hitting the ball
13:28
Speaker 1: hard and and and get that ops back up. And
13:31
Speaker 1: I'm not this isn't me voicing concern about him. It's
13:34
Speaker 1: just like he hit a tiny rut and now he's
13:37
Speaker 1: league average instead of destroying the league, Owen case He's
13:41
Speaker 1: done that. He's he's gone through the tiny ruts. He's gone.
13:44
Speaker 1: He's he's hit uh. He's been in Triple A all
13:46
Speaker 1: season and and he's hit like uh lottwle points and
13:50
Speaker 1: and he's worked through them. And I think if there's
13:55
Speaker 1: any one of that three, I think it'd be interesting
13:57
Speaker 1: to see Owen Casey up in the big leagues. It's
14:00
Speaker 1: some point this season his numbers aren't completely destroying Triple A. Uh.
14:05
Speaker 1: But but they've they've consistently pushed him throughout his time
14:09
Speaker 1: with the Cubs. They've been aggressive with assignments. They have
14:13
Speaker 1: trusted that he can handle failure and pushed through it
14:16
Speaker 1: mentally and and make the adjustments they've done that. I'm
14:20
Speaker 1: sure you talked to the kid in spring training. I
14:22
Speaker 1: did as well. Very confident in himself, carries himself with
14:26
Speaker 1: a high like he has very high expectations, and he
14:30
Speaker 1: carries himself in a way that I can do this.
14:33
Speaker 1: I remember I asked him. He's like, is there any
14:36
Speaker 1: one hitting coach that you that did point two that
14:39
Speaker 1: that's helped you a lot? He's like, they're all great,
14:41
Speaker 1: They're they're all really good. He's like, but but everything
14:45
Speaker 1: I've accomplished, it's me and and and I love that.
14:51
Speaker 1: And yeah, I mean it's not it's he's not ripping
14:54
Speaker 1: the hitting coaches. They they guide him, they give him advice,
14:57
Speaker 1: but he's putting in the work. He's doing it all.
15:00
Speaker 1: And that's how the mentality you have to have, like
15:02
Speaker 1: I I can do this, this is me. This is
15:05
Speaker 1: this is how I get here. And that's fine, Like, yeah,
15:09
Speaker 1: you have help along the way, but but this is
15:11
Speaker 1: you have to be confident in this. In sports, right,
15:14
Speaker 1: you have to have this. Uh I'm unbeatable mentality. Uh
15:18
Speaker 1: otherwise this game, especially baseball, will wear you down. I
15:21
Speaker 1: I'd like to see him at some point. I think
15:23
Speaker 1: you I think of those three that I mentioned of
15:27
Speaker 1: the position players of the quote unquote impactful prospects. Uh
15:33
Speaker 1: you know, I'm sure there's depth pieces that are that
15:35
Speaker 1: are worth a look, that could help the bench or
15:37
Speaker 1: something like that. I think that's the guy you have
15:40
Speaker 1: to look at, a lefty power bat. You know, that's
15:44
Speaker 1: that's interesting on its own. Uh so, oh, in case
15:47
Speaker 1: he has elite exit velocities things like that, if you
15:50
Speaker 1: want to nerd out on that stuff. Uh, but it's
15:53
Speaker 1: a he's an intriguing He's an intriguing player that could
15:58
Speaker 1: give some answer for next year, have some impact. I mean,
16:03
Speaker 1: what if he's a thirty homer rookie next year? You
16:05
Speaker 1: take that right, And I don't think that's crazy when
16:08
Speaker 1: you have that type of power, or if he has fifty,
16:14
Speaker 1: it's but that's a type of surprise they need.
16:17
Speaker 2: Right Cubs prospects home runs next season. The expectations that
16:26
Speaker 2: await young Owen.
16:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, now I've put two high expectations. I'm not sure
16:29
Speaker 1: if he's even had twenty in the minors. Jeez, that
16:32
Speaker 1: was unfair. Uh So, yeah, no, that though, I'm curious
16:36
Speaker 1: about the prospect he's a he had twenty two last
16:38
Speaker 1: year at double A. So so uh, putting putting putting
16:42
Speaker 1: thirty thirty on him for his rookie season in the
16:44
Speaker 1: big leagues is probably a little unfair.
16:47
Speaker 2: Well, I don't see him on the forty man, but
16:50
Speaker 2: i'd imagine he may have to be added this offseason.
16:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'm pretty sure. I'm ninety nine percent sure.
16:58
Speaker 2: But I mean, either way, you're hitting like that, a
16:59
Speaker 2: triple like it. It's not as if the Cubs offense
17:04
Speaker 2: is firing on all cylinders to such an extent that
17:08
Speaker 2: there's absolutely no room for anyone else to make their
17:14
Speaker 2: way in there. And yeah, I do think I think
17:17
Speaker 2: that's good context on Moises and Shaw. Hard to see
17:23
Speaker 2: them like forcing guys onto forty man at this point.
17:28
Speaker 2: I think that's been I think one of the underwhelming
17:32
Speaker 2: parts of this year, to be honest, Like for as,
17:34
Speaker 2: I mean, you SHOWEDA and Michael Bush are two of
17:36
Speaker 2: the best rookies in the National League, no doubt that's
17:41
Speaker 2: super important. But in terms of like other kind of
17:44
Speaker 2: young guys coming up, like nothing that really kind of
17:48
Speaker 2: blew us away this year. And we'll see what changes
17:52
Speaker 2: over the final two months. And you know, I I
17:56
Speaker 2: want to see. I'm curious how Craig Counsel kind of
17:59
Speaker 2: takes in these last two months, Like what are we
18:01
Speaker 2: gonna learn about him during this He hasn't really changed
18:05
Speaker 2: all that much. But our buddy Jesse Rodgers when he
18:08
Speaker 2: was on while you were on vacation recently sat but
18:13
Speaker 2: he had a good way of putting. He said he
18:15
Speaker 2: felt that Council has been in kind of observation mode
18:19
Speaker 2: as kind of a to get everything in not overreact.
18:24
Speaker 2: And you know, we we're just talking about injuries. I
18:29
Speaker 2: think that is part of a larger conversation of like
18:33
Speaker 2: baseball operations and what Craig Council wants done here. I'm
18:39
Speaker 2: not blaming trainers, I'm not blaming coaches, but like when
18:44
Speaker 2: a team has underperformed to this degree, I think almost
18:50
Speaker 2: everything is on the table, right. I mean, it's been
18:54
Speaker 2: such a weird confluence of events. I was talking to
18:58
Speaker 2: a long time baseball official recently who said, you know,
19:05
Speaker 2: in his experience, like the one truism was well, if
19:08
Speaker 2: you've got a good rotation, you've got a chance.
19:11
Speaker 1: Right.
19:11
Speaker 2: I mean that's kind of like a fundamental thing that
19:16
Speaker 2: has not come true this year at all. And to
19:20
Speaker 2: see this team in last place on the last day
19:23
Speaker 2: of July with some awesome pitchers, some some pretty good
19:29
Speaker 2: depth is kind of mind boggling. And that's why I
19:33
Speaker 2: think we'll be kind of covering a lot of these
19:36
Speaker 2: Like you know, what's the internal shuffling or shake up
19:41
Speaker 2: going to be. That's something that I don't think we're
19:43
Speaker 2: going to get, you know, in August, but I do
19:46
Speaker 2: think that's something that's going to have to be on
19:47
Speaker 2: our radar here very soon. Yeah.
19:50
Speaker 1: No, I agree with Jesse on the observation mode that comment.
19:56
Speaker 1: I think that's I think that's accurate. Like I think
19:58
Speaker 1: he is taking a lot in and and I think
20:02
Speaker 1: that's important. Now. I think some things have changed the
20:06
Speaker 1: way baseball is allows. Uh. Front offices don't like when
20:11
Speaker 1: someone leaves for another org. They don't like people being
20:14
Speaker 1: taken from their org. It's like one guy can come
20:17
Speaker 1: and that's it. Yeh. And it used to be like
20:20
Speaker 1: you have a year, uh and then and then you
20:23
Speaker 1: can maybe take more guys. Now it's longer, like I'm
20:26
Speaker 1: pretty sure like uh like there was some agreement that
20:30
Speaker 1: Carter Hawkins couldn't pull guys from the Guardians for multiple years. Uh,
20:36
Speaker 1: there's like it. I'm pretty sure something is similar with
20:40
Speaker 1: Milwaukee in council. I don't think he can unless it's
20:43
Speaker 1: a very clear upgrade, like very clear promotion, things like that.
20:48
Speaker 1: It's hard to get guys to come from the previous
20:51
Speaker 1: organization there. There's a lot of it's just like I'm
20:54
Speaker 1: not sure if it's formal or as much as just
20:57
Speaker 1: like really frowned upon and and it'll call issues, but
21:01
Speaker 1: it's hard to pry guys away nowadays. It's not how
21:05
Speaker 1: it used to be unless they're just like, yeah, take
21:07
Speaker 1: whoever you want, right.
21:08
Speaker 2: Well, I think the difference might have been I'm sure
21:10
Speaker 2: Carter has a condition for interviewing for a clear promotion.
21:14
Speaker 2: Maybe there were some sort of thing, but counsel as
21:16
Speaker 2: a free agent. I think it was more Milwaukee was
21:20
Speaker 2: really chapped at how that all went. They seemed to
21:23
Speaker 2: make an effort to snap up all those coaches and
21:27
Speaker 2: make sure they were there for the press conference when
21:29
Speaker 2: Pat Murphy was elevated. So I think I think you're right,
21:35
Speaker 2: But I am curious to see what happens there because
21:38
Speaker 2: this is largely not Greig's coaching staff, and I think
21:41
Speaker 2: there are lots of talent on that staff who've done
21:45
Speaker 2: good things, and you can make the case for a
21:48
Speaker 2: lot of retentions, but for the most part, you had
21:51
Speaker 2: a coaching staff that was signed up to work with
21:56
Speaker 2: David Ross this year. Like for the most part, it's
21:59
Speaker 2: kind of like an end of October contract cycle. Like
22:03
Speaker 2: there are guys it was supposed to be David Ross's
22:06
Speaker 2: half right, right, right, He's fired a couple of days later,
22:10
Speaker 2: and then Council's kind of coming in. He got one
22:12
Speaker 2: or two guys in that are you know, his sort
22:14
Speaker 2: of hires, and they had made some changes before the
22:22
Speaker 2: Ross council switch went down. But yeah, like, how how
22:26
Speaker 2: is counsel going to make his mark on this team?
22:29
Speaker 1: Because yeah, any so there's a so I think, like
22:35
Speaker 1: I think how to be's safe, right, pitching has been
22:37
Speaker 1: good and and he's highly respected liked by players, And
22:41
Speaker 1: I think I don't want to make assumptions, right because
22:44
Speaker 1: like these other types of things, But but that seems
22:47
Speaker 1: like someone that's safe Council has often goes out of
22:52
Speaker 1: his way to praise Ryan Flaherty. This is a new relationship.
22:56
Speaker 1: This is a guy that he wasn't with uh previous
23:00
Speaker 1: uh and now and now is honest staff and and
23:05
Speaker 1: I think Flaherty it has had a positive impact in
23:09
Speaker 1: certain ways. But also we just don't know, uh what
23:13
Speaker 1: his future holds because he wants to be a manager,
23:15
Speaker 1: Like I think that's obvious, So who knows if he
23:20
Speaker 1: moves on, I think pretty much everything else, it's just like,
23:23
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm not going to make any assumptions.
23:26
Speaker 1: The offense has been bad enough that we have to
23:30
Speaker 1: wonder what happens on the coaching staff because just it's
23:33
Speaker 1: just the reality of baseball. Do I think it's fair.
23:35
Speaker 1: Do I think it's the right move? I don't know. Yeah,
23:41
Speaker 1: just like it's just it's it's not it's not always fair.
23:46
Speaker 1: That's just the way the way it is. As far
23:50
Speaker 1: as I think it's important to take in what council
23:53
Speaker 1: has to say. We've talked a lot about Milwaukee and
23:56
Speaker 1: that organization. It is a good, strong, well run organization.
24:00
Speaker 1: He has been a part of it for over a decade.
24:03
Speaker 1: He has seen how things work. It is really important
24:07
Speaker 1: if he sees things that maybe they're not awful, but
24:10
Speaker 1: he's like, I think this can be run better. I think,
24:13
Speaker 1: you know, here are the types of moves I think
24:15
Speaker 1: we can make Here are the types of changes and
24:17
Speaker 1: player development and and you know, strength and conditioning, with
24:21
Speaker 1: the training staff, with the coaching staff, whatever whatever it
24:25
Speaker 1: may be. These are the places that he has expertise in.
24:27
Speaker 1: These are the places he's observed, these, these are the
24:31
Speaker 1: areas that he has uh, you know, experience with with
24:35
Speaker 1: a successful organization. Why would you not take his opinion
24:39
Speaker 1: and and weigh heavily, Like there are a few organizations
24:44
Speaker 1: that stand out in baseball that aren't doing it just
24:46
Speaker 1: purely with money, and Milwaukee is one of them, right,
24:49
Speaker 1: so you have to respect it. You have to listen
24:52
Speaker 1: to him. There's a reason you didn't. Didn't he say, like,
24:56
Speaker 1: don't hire me if you just don't, you know, don't
24:59
Speaker 1: need to to run a bullpen. So there's more here.
25:02
Speaker 1: He has more to give to this organization. I think.
25:05
Speaker 1: I think that's a that's spot on. I think this
25:08
Speaker 1: one is huge, and I think I'm seeing signs of
25:12
Speaker 1: better things. Offensively, results aren't fully there, but I feel
25:17
Speaker 1: like Pete grow Armstrong is looking a little calmer at
25:21
Speaker 1: the plate. He's hitting the ball harder more often, not
25:26
Speaker 1: swinging like it's it's only been like a week of that.
25:30
Speaker 1: But but but it just looks so much better because
25:34
Speaker 1: there was a point in time with a week ago
25:37
Speaker 1: where where I was like, come on, you have to
25:41
Speaker 1: settle down at the plate. You cannot try and swing
25:44
Speaker 1: for the fences. You cannot swing at every pitch. It's
25:47
Speaker 1: a little calmer, it's a it seems like he's like,
25:51
Speaker 1: hopefully these next two months we get it. He doesn't
25:54
Speaker 1: have to rip the cover off the ball. If he
25:56
Speaker 1: is a league average hitter with that defense, that is
25:59
Speaker 1: a special player. That is a player that's going to
26:01
Speaker 1: help you win a lot of games. So I want
26:05
Speaker 1: to see comrace bats. I want to see the line drives. Yesterday.
26:07
Speaker 1: I want to say, like, uh, hard ground ball up
26:10
Speaker 1: the middle and Ellie Daala Cruz was there, right, Pete.
26:15
Speaker 1: Pete probably wanted to hit on that one. A few
26:17
Speaker 1: hard line drives. There was one that I was kind
26:20
Speaker 1: of writing at the time and half paying attention, and
26:23
Speaker 1: I saw Boog's voice kind of elevated, and I thought
26:27
Speaker 1: I thought he had hit a home run, but but
26:28
Speaker 1: it was just driven uh to the to the warning track.
26:32
Speaker 1: But uh, but but yeah, I want to see I
26:36
Speaker 1: want to see more of that, just how many stadiums
26:39
Speaker 1: would that have been we got. I think that's zero.
26:49
Speaker 1: That was zero if it's not a home run in
26:51
Speaker 1: Cincinnati or probably not getting in many other places. I
26:56
Speaker 1: just think it's so important to see quality at bats
27:00
Speaker 1: from him. I don't even need to see elite results.
27:03
Speaker 1: I'd like to see some results, but I don't need
27:07
Speaker 1: him to like be fifty points above league average. I
27:11
Speaker 1: need I need a quality at bats, not swinging out
27:15
Speaker 1: of his shoes, not chasing every slider down and in.
27:19
Speaker 1: I actually think he's been better against when it comes
27:21
Speaker 1: to chasing the fastball up. But that's those sliders, my lord,
27:27
Speaker 1: he's got, Like just if he can lay off those
27:31
Speaker 1: and start swinging at strikes and putting them in play hard,
27:34
Speaker 1: I think that's a step forward, and that makes you
27:37
Speaker 1: feel better about next season. With regards to Peter Armstrong.
27:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we had I think pre show we had
27:45
Speaker 2: talked about building towards this that. I think obviously Jed
27:50
Speaker 2: Hoyer is going to be a huge focus, even more
27:55
Speaker 2: than he normally is. And it's hard to gauge the
27:59
Speaker 2: things off of zoom, but he seemed pretty relaxed and
28:06
Speaker 2: calm and not at all defensive I think the Paradeus
28:09
Speaker 2: trade helps in that regard. If you remember from twenty one,
28:15
Speaker 2: just how like frazzled he was. I think our buddy
28:18
Speaker 2: Paul Sullivan abscribed him looking like like as a hostage
28:22
Speaker 2: video or something like that. Coule days and had very
28:25
Speaker 2: little sleep, Like he seemed pretty relaxed less and rested
28:32
Speaker 2: relatively speaking here and look, the team is not good.
28:37
Speaker 2: It's the team he assembled, So certainly he's gonna be
28:40
Speaker 2: feeling a lot of heat even internally. Like, as we've
28:48
Speaker 2: said before, the Cubs don't spend to the nth degree,
28:51
Speaker 2: and we both think they could do more in that regard,
28:56
Speaker 2: but this has been a sufficient role to go win
29:01
Speaker 2: a division, this division, at least certainly when you look
29:04
Speaker 2: at what other teams are doing across the league, and
29:08
Speaker 2: I think it's an issue when you see like certain
29:12
Speaker 2: teams kind of coming on, like you know, David Stearns
29:15
Speaker 2: came in and you know, signed a couple like short
29:20
Speaker 2: term guys and like kind of helped get the Mets
29:25
Speaker 2: back in it when they were looking like they were
29:28
Speaker 2: sellers early on. You see kind of how the pubs
29:34
Speaker 2: are drifting towards that Giants territory where it's kind of
29:39
Speaker 2: like just in the middle with like pieces and kind
29:44
Speaker 2: of stuck, not very dynamic, but not bottoming out like
29:48
Speaker 2: it's in and where there's a lot of heat on
29:51
Speaker 2: that group in San Francisco. And so maybe I am
29:56
Speaker 2: too close to this. I feel like the circumstances in
30:01
Speaker 2: which Jed took over this job, I think we're extremely difficult.
30:06
Speaker 2: It looks really bad and when Pete Crow is kind
30:08
Speaker 2: of the only guy from that twenty one selloff on
30:12
Speaker 2: our radar screens right now. And like we said, maybe
30:17
Speaker 2: Al Kantara changes that over time, but like the way
30:24
Speaker 2: this team is built, the way it's shown out this
30:26
Speaker 2: year just does not look good. There's not a whole
30:29
Speaker 2: lot of like faith and trust right now, just from
30:33
Speaker 2: our interactions or you know, on social media, the comment section,
30:39
Speaker 2: just people coming up to us during our everyday life.
30:42
Speaker 2: Like the Cubs are not the same thing that they were,
30:48
Speaker 2: you know, just yeah, the buzz, the energy. They still
30:52
Speaker 2: get forty thousand at Wrigley and it's a great place
30:57
Speaker 2: to spend an afternoon and like them, not terrible, but
31:03
Speaker 2: in terms of like like oh wow, you got to
31:06
Speaker 2: see this Cubs player, Like oh did you see this
31:08
Speaker 2: last night in the Cubs game, or oh, man, I
31:11
Speaker 2: can't wait until this matchup whatever, Like there hasn't been
31:16
Speaker 2: nearly enough of that, and that this has gone on
31:20
Speaker 2: long enough that it's gonna make it's gonna force Jet
31:25
Speaker 2: out of his comfort zone. I would imagine.
31:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, So, I mean, I think it's undeniable. I think
31:33
Speaker 1: we've brought it up in multiple podcasts. This is he's
31:36
Speaker 1: on the hot seat. I don't think we have to,
31:40
Speaker 1: you know, tiptoe around that. There's a reason he's been
31:43
Speaker 1: asked those questions. He I understand his answer. He can't.
31:48
Speaker 1: He can't make moves with that in mind. I'm more
31:51
Speaker 1: curious if he he agrees that he's on the hot seat. Uh,
31:57
Speaker 1: you don't. You don't make moves with that in mind.
31:59
Speaker 1: I get that, but you do need to have the
32:03
Speaker 1: idea of I mean, he said it. There's a reason
32:06
Speaker 1: he's trying to win for twenty twenty five. He's not
32:08
Speaker 1: trying to build a deep farm system anymore. He has
32:11
Speaker 1: that it's time to win, so he has to he
32:17
Speaker 1: has to be thinking about twenty twenty five. There's no
32:19
Speaker 1: long term plan unless you win now. Because yeah, that's
32:26
Speaker 1: plan if you're not winning now. I do think that.
32:31
Speaker 1: You know, he gets credit in my eyes for the
32:34
Speaker 1: Paradis trade in that. I think we both agreed. We
32:38
Speaker 1: just didn't see that type of creativity needed for that.
32:41
Speaker 1: We weren't expecting him to pull off a creative move
32:45
Speaker 1: like that. I think that's more of that is what's needed.
32:49
Speaker 1: It needs to happen. I think he's well aware of that.
32:53
Speaker 1: I think he was aggressive to try and do more
32:57
Speaker 1: of that this deadline. He couldn't pull off more, but
33:02
Speaker 1: I think he had. He had he wanted more young
33:05
Speaker 1: talent that could help the team. Now that has shown
33:09
Speaker 1: they could help teams, right, he's looking for that. I
33:13
Speaker 1: think that's going to be his focus this winter. We
33:16
Speaker 1: will see how much money they spend. I do think
33:19
Speaker 1: these next two months are going to dictate some of that. Unfortunately,
33:24
Speaker 1: it can help, Yeah, I think yeah. I just I
33:30
Speaker 1: think it's a bad way to go about business as
33:33
Speaker 1: far as ownership goes, Like, well, we only won seventy
33:35
Speaker 1: five games. I'm not spending a ton of money to
33:37
Speaker 1: make us an eighty win team. If we win eighty
33:40
Speaker 1: two games, I'll spend more money to make us an
33:42
Speaker 1: eighty eight win team. I don't like that thinking. I
33:45
Speaker 1: think you need to get your payroll to a certain
33:48
Speaker 1: level at all times and then and then you need
33:51
Speaker 1: to be aggressive when when moments call for it and
33:54
Speaker 1: when opportunities arise. You can't just say like, well this
33:57
Speaker 1: is this is like what's the point then when you're
34:00
Speaker 1: selling your fans short? And I just don't it doesn't
34:04
Speaker 1: make sense because the argument coming off two thousand eighteen
34:10
Speaker 1: twenty eighteen, the argument coming off twenty eighteen is we
34:14
Speaker 1: won ninety five games, why do I need to spend money?
34:16
Speaker 1: So what is it? You know? Like either way, so
34:21
Speaker 1: you don't spend money when you lose games, you don't
34:23
Speaker 1: spend money when you win too many games, Like what's
34:25
Speaker 1: the sweet spot to spend money only when you win
34:27
Speaker 1: eighty three games? And they didn't even spend that much
34:29
Speaker 1: money this past offseason. So I hope that's not how
34:34
Speaker 1: it plays out, because that would be unfortunate for the
34:38
Speaker 1: fan base. But it's obvious that that's a big storyline
34:42
Speaker 1: over the next two months, and it'll likely be over
34:45
Speaker 1: the over the winter. Because I don't think when I
34:48
Speaker 1: say he's on the hot seat, I don't think he's
34:50
Speaker 1: getting fired after this season. It would be weird to
34:54
Speaker 1: allow him to trade someone like Christopher Morrell to go
34:59
Speaker 1: out and acquire esopparatus and then fire. I mean maybe
35:04
Speaker 1: maybe it still happens. Maybe, but I just don't it
35:09
Speaker 1: just like.
35:10
Speaker 2: He's done largely what ownership wants. Not it hasn't checked
35:13
Speaker 2: every single box, but in terms of the plan that
35:17
Speaker 2: was agreed to, like this is sort of what they want.
35:21
Speaker 2: It hasn't come to fruition.
35:24
Speaker 1: This season.
35:26
Speaker 2: But when you talk about creative, the Michael Bush trade
35:28
Speaker 2: is another good example of like you can stack up
35:32
Speaker 2: a couple more like that and tighten up some areas.
35:36
Speaker 2: And I don't know, I think after the trade deadline,
35:43
Speaker 2: my brain is kind of like turning off and kind
35:45
Speaker 2: of conjuring up all these different scenarios.
35:50
Speaker 1: I don't know.
35:50
Speaker 2: It makes me think of what THEO said, like, you know,
35:53
Speaker 2: we just need to be right, like to win. Like
35:56
Speaker 2: that is just sometimes that is kind of a very
36:00
Speaker 2: counsel like view of just trying to put things in
36:02
Speaker 2: the most like simple terms, And I think it very
36:06
Speaker 2: much relates to this situation here.
36:09
Speaker 1: YEP. I totally agree more creativity and and be right
36:14
Speaker 1: with those decisions. That's that's Jed's task going forward. He
36:18
Speaker 1: has two months to evaluate this team. I think it
36:23
Speaker 1: may give him some answers, but I don't think it's
36:25
Speaker 1: going to drastically change a lot of what he needs
36:27
Speaker 1: to do. He knows what he needs to do. He
36:29
Speaker 1: just needs a little more information to feel comfortable in
36:31
Speaker 1: some areas. Otherwise he has He has a daunting task
36:36
Speaker 1: because he has to. There's no more patients. Patients ran
36:40
Speaker 1: out for fans a while ago. But for the people
36:43
Speaker 1: that are making the decisions, I think they're they're they're
36:45
Speaker 1: ready to They're like, you know, it's time to put
36:48
Speaker 1: up or shut up. Uh, and it's time to deliver wins. Uh.
36:51
Speaker 1: This is a team that, you know, one of the
36:54
Speaker 1: most money making franchises in sports, that they need to
36:57
Speaker 1: start winning games. They can't, It can't be. What is
37:00
Speaker 1: it now? We're running on five years two thousand and eight,
37:03
Speaker 1: six years since a full season with playoffs and since
37:07
Speaker 1: twenty seventeen since a playoff win. Yeah. Not that doesn't work.
37:13
Speaker 1: That that's not acceptable. So they gotta they gotta get
37:17
Speaker 1: back on track and figure things out. That's the task
37:19
Speaker 1: at hand, all right, that's North side territory. Thanks for
37:24
Speaker 1: listening to everyone. Make sure too great reviews, subscribe to
37:27
Speaker 1: this podcast, and make sure to subscribe to The Athletic,
37:30
Speaker 1: where Patrick and I will be covering the Cups and
37:32
Speaker 1: on top of all those topics for you for the
37:34
Speaker 1: final two months of the season and obviously a critical offseason.
37:39
Speaker 1: Yet again, thanks so much for listening. Take care everyone,