Latest / The Nonprofit Podcast / Ep 154| Storytelling in Tough Times - The Trust Factor with Maria Bryan

Transcript

Ep 154| Storytelling in Tough Times - The Trust Factor with Maria Bryan · The Nonprofit Podcast

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: The Nonprofit Podcast, powered by DonorBucks.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: What happens when donors stop trusting your nonprofit?
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: When funding shifts, crises hit, or uncertainty rises, the wrong story or the wrong way of telling it can push them away.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: Nonprofits are facing tough questions about how to share difficult stories without overwhelming their audience or losing their support.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: But with the right storytelling strategy, you can turn fear into loyalty, ensuring that donors stay engaged and committed to your mission.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Nonprofit Podcast.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Jenna, Education and Community Engagement Manager here at Donorbox.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: We are here each week with practical actions you can use today to take your nonprofit to the next level tomorrow.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: And joining us today is Maria Bryan, founder of Maria Bryan Creative and host of the Wind Bearing Witness Podcast.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: And this podcast is all about ethical storytelling in the nonprofit space.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: Maria is an absolute expert in helping mission-driven organizations tell impactful, trust-building stories that resist harm.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: And today she's here to help us tackle one of the trickiest topics in nonprofit communications, and that is crisis storytelling.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for being here, Maria.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, Jenna, what a joy to just be with you, to be in your space.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: And thank you so much for having me on the podcast.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's always such a joy.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I think too, this topic feels more important than ever.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: Nonprofits are constantly navigating crisis, right?
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: Whether it's a funding shortfall or a natural disaster or an urgent advocacy issue.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: And when emotions are high, there is so much pressure to get the message right.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's such a tough balance, you know, communicating that urgency in a way that moves people to action without overwhelming them, without creating harm.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: And that brings me to our big challenge, which is crisis storytelling can be this like double-edged sword, right?
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: Urgency drives donations, yes, but it can also lead to donor fatigue and just all these icky feelings that we don't want folks to feel.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: So, what strategies do you think nonprofits can use to share urgent needs in a way that compel action without causing that emotional exhaustion?
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: This is so timely.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: So I want to start with a content warning.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_02: It can feel like we're always in crisis, but this year particularly feels that way.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: So if you don't have the capacity for this episode, you can pause it and come back when you are ready for it.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: Jenna and I are gonna talk about things that have happened recently, like the fires in LA and some other challenges that the public sector is facing.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: So be kind to yourself and to your heart as we explore what we can do to get people to act during times of crisis and to build long-term relationships, not just kind of jumping on the fear-mongering, right?
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: So anyway, I love this question.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: I do want to start with some no's.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna start with some no's and then we'll go into how we can shift.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_02: And first things first, we know that stories are foundational.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: They're so powerful to move hearts and minds and to get people to donate to help you move your mission forward.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: But what we don't want to do is exploit folks that are in probably one of the most traumatic seasons of their life.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: So make sure that you have consent and that you're providing lots of autonomy and agency to people who are sharing their stories.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_02: Also, let's not have a new crisis of the month.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_02: You might have one crisis and realize, whoa, we absolutely succeeded our goals.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: And even unintentionally start kind of seeking out crises and to start really forming your campaigns and your appeals around crises.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_02: This is a red flag for your audiences and supporters, and they are gonna pick up on it really quickly.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: It'll make you less credible.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: So if there's a crisis that is something that you need to address, do so.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm not gonna tell you not to, but don't seek out the crisis of the month.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_02: And lastly, we forget the trauma that our audience and supporters are experiencing alongside the people that you serve.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: So don't present the problem and the problems that you solve in a way that is so overwhelming that folks just disassociate and they can't even, you know, take part or get to the call to actions, especially if they feel like why donate?
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, this is such a doom.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_02: We're such a doom state.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_02: You want folks to feel like their contributions will actually make a meaningful difference.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: So here's a few things that you can do.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: These are some of the shifts.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: And one is let's balance urgency, right?
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_02: We want to share important information so people can make actions.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: So, yes, let's share urgency, but let's do so with hope.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_02: And with that, let's balance suffering with resilience.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_02: Even though things like the LA fires that happened recently, it's like, where is the resilience in there?
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: There is resilience in there.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_02: We are in a resilient people, and as humans, find those micro moments of resilience.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: And with that, make sure that you're telling the story beyond the crisis.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_02: So don't stop at the crisis and invite folks to donate because that does a few things.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't really give much agency to story owners, but also it kind of promotes a little bit of saviorism, right?
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like has your donors feeling like they can come swoop in and save the day.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_02: And lastly, give some breaks, give some emotional breaks in your communications, marketing, and fundraising.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: Make sure you're communicating both when you're in crisis, but when you're not in crisis.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_02: And make sure that you, again, we're using this word balance because this is going to be a season of balance.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_02: Make sure that when you are sharing very urgent, difficult information to hear, you're also making sure that you are plotting space in your content calendar for uplifting content as well.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_02: So that that was a lot.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_02: But but those are some initial thoughts that I have.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's so important to strike that balance.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we've all seen appeals that feels so heavy.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: It almost feels paralyzing.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like you want to help, but you don't know where to start.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I think too, the best intentions don't always translate to the most effective messaging.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes even like these small missteps can feel very exploitative and they can erode trust with your community that you're serving and your donors or your potential donors.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: So making sure that you inspire action rather than exhausting it is huge.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: So, what are some examples of this crisis storytelling done right?
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_02: Have you seen Planet Earth, the doc the documentary series?
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: This came out when we, I think we're about the same age, like when I was in college.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_02: I love Planet Earth.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_02: It is so gorgeously filmed.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_02: It brings me to this place.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_02: Me and my six-year-old daughter Mia, we watch Planet Earth together when we're having trouble sleeping.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_02: And you are so immersed in the most beautiful parts of the world.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_02: And then David says, but because of climate change, this will all soon be gone.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_02: And my poor six-year-old is like, What?
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, What?
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_02: And then that's the end.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_02: And with every episode, I go from just feeling like I'm ready to go to sleep to in a panic.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I want to highlight the Nature Conservancy with that.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_02: Because when we talk about climate change, climate crisis, environmental crisis, it's so easy to say, hey, if we don't act, all of this goes away.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_02: But it's not quite trauma-informed.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_02: So the Nature Conservancy are also TNC.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: They're the biggest environmental organization in the world.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I encourage you to check out their Instagram and their YouTube.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: In their Instagram, they show what they've done.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_02: So we're learning what things are working, what impact is working in the environmental space.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_02: They also share what they plan to do.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_02: And so this gives us hope of oh, there are researchers and scientists and passionate people that are doing these brilliant things to help conserve the environment.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_02: And they also give actionable steps for us to do.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm not just talking about recycling.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: They're saying things like run for office, you know, like things that like we can really do to make an impact.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: And what I love about the Nature Conservancy, and I think we need this now more than ever, is they have these little calls to action to go into nature to help regulate our nervous system, which again just helps us during this difficult time to take care of ourselves.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_02: But in in between that, we're learning, hey, nature's really, really important.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_02: Just like bringing that home again.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_02: And then their YouTube is longer form.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_02: And this is where we're seeing these community stories.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_02: I especially love their urban community stories of folks coming together and creating spaces for environments to thrive.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_02: So I think the Nature Conservancy is just doing such a brilliant job of taking something that can feel so panicky and anxiety-driven, and we can so easily do that, to something that actually gives me inspiration and hope and gives me something to do, to be part of this movement.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that really shows a good approach, you know, one that's rooted in honesty, right?
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: But still in that connection.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that makes such a big difference.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and and you talked about different platforms.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: We've got Instagram, we've got YouTube.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: We know that storytelling doesn't happen all in one place.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: Which channels have you seen deliver the biggest successes?
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: Are there certain platforms or mediums that lend themselves better to this type of engagement?
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_02: I think first and foremost, your website and your donor page are really important because this is where folks are learning the most about the problem you're solving and what your solution is, and then how you can take part.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe it's your donation page, maybe it's a volunteer page, but this is your home.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_02: This is your space to really have the most important information.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_02: And a little teaser to something that we're gonna get to also your website is a great way to create pathways for feedback from both your donors, volunteers, and community members and the people you work with.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: If there is something that you're not seeing, if you have a blind spot in some of your stories and marketing, um, all of different social media platforms serve different purposes.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I feel that Instagram and TikTok are these great biteable ways to kind of learn what's going on, to keep up and to get these small actionable steps.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: But when you are digging deep, YouTube is such a great platform.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_02: This is like the longer form platform.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_02: If, you know, think about when you want to move across country, are you gonna go to Instagram or are you gonna go to YouTube?
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like when you really need the good information, you will go to YouTube.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_02: So this is where like longer form and video is king.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: And this is a whole nother conversation about how blogs, I think, are gonna change a little bit because now AI is just taking information from a thousand blogs.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so when you're Googling something, it's just summarizing that.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_02: So people might not quite make it quite to your blog, but we're not there yet with video.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_02: So right now, video is a great way to build authority with your solutions and with your stories of hope and transformation.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_02: I'd be remiss not to talk about what's going on, especially in the in the nonprofit space right now, things like the federal freezes, removing all kinds of language.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_02: LinkedIn is the space for leaders to come away from their brands and speak on behalf of these really big issues.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_02: So if you are a leader and you're a nonprofit, get on your own personal LinkedIn platforms and speak to what's going on.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: And again, make sure that you're balancing this education and urgency with actionable things that you're doing and actionable things that others can do.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: What would you say to someone who just doesn't know where to start with video storytelling?
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm gonna give you a little behind the scenes.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_02: I cannot tell you how many times Jenna and I talk about how long it takes for us to edit our podcast because we're both podcast hosts.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_02: You do not have to do anything live.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_02: So it gets, and I I am not an affiliate of Descript, but I'll just say there are platforms like Descript where you can literally read off a script, right?
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_02: Or have bullet points and just speak and talk and get used to it.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_02: And then go back and you can edit.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_02: And there's actually tools where you can really easily edit out some of these words, like ah, oh, you know, so.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: Also, Descript has this AI feature that fixes your eye contact.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're kind of looking down, reading something, it like brings your eyes back up.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_02: So there the tools are just making it easier and easier.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_02: You don't have to have necessarily a very sophisticated studio, and you don't have to be a public speaker.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_02: Just jot down a few notes and speak.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_02: You don't have to do it over and over and over again.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: Just speak.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_02: If you set a paragraph a little wonky, say it again.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there's tools out there.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_02: I happen to use descript and have become comfortable with it.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_02: But I think even Canva has tools that make it easier.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: I know Vimeo does too.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, just do it, make mistakes.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's okay to be imperfect.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: Just show up, be authentic, share what you need to share.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: And um, if you don't feel quite right about it, you can always go back and do it again or edit it in a way that it feels right.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: But I think the most important part is starting.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: I do want to rewind a little bit.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: You brought up this is a tricky time.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: There are things that we're having to adjust to that don't necessarily feel right for a lot of folks, um, can be very challenging to navigate, how serving communities.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: And then I think that people in general are more skeptical than ever.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: Donors are more skeptical than ever, especially when they're feeling emotionally drained or emotionally manipulated, even.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: Can we talk about the key elements of that transparency and the authenticity and storytelling that actually build trust with your community, trust with your donors rather than erode it?
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: Humanize your stories and communications.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: Don't be afraid to talk about your challenges.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_02: When it looks like all the other nonprofits are doing great, we kind of hide behind our challenges and only share successes.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_02: Again, this is all about balance, right?
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: So we don't want to just say, oh my goodness, we're going under right now, help.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_02: But there is a way to humanize your organization and your communications.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_02: Be authentic with what challenges you are facing right now and what it looks like to show up.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and it's okay not to have all the answers to lean into the nuance and complexity of your mission and of your issue.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: You do not need to oversimplify.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_02: When people have the information and they get a little bit of the complexity and the nuance, again, it humanizes your organization and it builds that trust.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_02: Another thing with that is be realistic with your impact promises.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_02: If you're telling folks, you know, with your donors, we're gonna open a new school or we're gonna serve there's many more patients or whatever it may be, be cautious with those promises that you are making because people are not gonna forget it.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: Especially if that is the reason why they are donating.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: And lastly, I just want to go back to a point I made before.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_02: And that is you don't have to be in this tower, in this silo.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: I want to give you grace to be human and to mess up, to tell stories that maybe aren't dignified, lean in a little bit too much into crisis communications.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_02: So, what can we do about these blind spots?
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_02: Create feedback loops with your community and donors.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_02: Make sure that you are accessible so people can knock on your door and say, hey, just so you know, every time I get your email, I can't read it because it's just giving me anxiety.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_02: Or I just scroll past your videos because they're oversimplifying the issue that I am so deeply invested in.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_02: So think about ways that you can open up those loops.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that's such a great point.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not, it's not about what you say, it's how you say it.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think trust is not innately given.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's earned over time.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: And if you do something to erode it, it's really hard to earn that back.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: So not overpromising, being realistic with your impact, you know, I think is such an incredible point.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: And and that brings me to another point, too, that trust has to be the foundation for all of it, right?
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: We've talked a lot about how to build it through your storytelling with your community, through your donors.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: And on March 19th, everyone, Maria and I will be hosting a webinar and we'll talk about our 3T formula to trust.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: And we've hit all these already time, thoughtfulness, transparency.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: And that is the foundation that you should bring forward in all of your communications and your storytelling so that you can continue to build long-term trusting relationships.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: And we're not gonna be talking about just theory, we're gonna be sharing some real examples of nonprofits that have done this well, who are putting these principles into action.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're thinking I need to build more trust with my community, build more trust with my donors, then definitely check it out.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna drop the link in the show notes for you.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: Maria, before we wrap up, what would you say are the concrete, immediately actionable steps nonprofits can take to implement this ethical trust-building storytelling in their next campaign?
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: Number one, I would say that one of the first steps to protect and dignify your story owners is to revisit your consent process.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: Let's move beyond a consent form.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_02: If you want to learn a little bit more about that, reach out to me and we could talk about what ongoing consent looks like.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: Number two, think about a communications ratio system when we are in a time of crises.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: So, what that might look like is this maybe 30% is focusing on problems and crises, 35% is on the solutions, and 35% is on impact and transformation, right?
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: So we've got the problem, but we're not just focusing on the problem.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_02: We're also going to say what we're going to do, and then we're going to show what we're going to do.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: So look at your content calendar, make sure that you have a ratio of each.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_02: So you're not overly leaning into crisis and trauma.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_02: And finally, if you're wanting to do this pathways for feedback, a really simple thing you can do is put on the footer of your website just a general email, like an info ad or marketing at, and just have a simple line that says, if you have concerns about our stories and communications or website contact, email us here.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_02: Simple, simple.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_02: And just make sure that email is being checked by the appropriate people.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: Simple, actionable, and something that can really make a difference.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: I love that ratio.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for all that you do and for the spaces that you're creating for people that do feel so safe.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: I admire you deeply.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: And this has been such a powerful conversation.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for sharing your insights and giving our listeners some really, really great takeaways.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: Of course.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: And again, if trust building is a priority for your nonprofit, we do not want you to miss our upcoming webinar.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: We would love for you to be in our space with us again.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: This is on Wednesday, March 19th at 12 p.m.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: Eastern.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: And we'll be talking all about trust and how these elements can transform your relationships with your community, with your donors.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: And the link is in the show notes and we'll add in some extra links as well so that you can dig into more of what Maria has been working on.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: And again, thank you so much.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's an honor, Jenna.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me on.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: And thank you for joining us on the Nonprofit Podcast.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: I hope you've left with the confidence to take a small step today that will make a big difference tomorrow.
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