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126: Forgiveness: Let Go of Resentment Without Letting Them Back In · The Everyday Awesome Project

• 0:27
  Polly Mertens: Hey superstars, welcome back.
• 0:28
  Polly Mertens: Polly here.
• 0:29
  Polly Mertens: And Sam Pruitt.
• 0:31
  Polly Mertens: What's up, beautiful humans?
• 0:32
  Samantha Pruitt: Howdy, howdy.
• 0:33
  Samantha Pruitt: Today is a very cool topic, and we always love these because they're timely because something's going on in our life.
• 0:38
  Samantha Pruitt: So we're calling this one letting go.
• 0:41
  Samantha Pruitt: Why forgiveness is never really about the other person.
• 0:45
  Polly Mertens: Right?
• 0:46
  Samantha Pruitt: Yes, forgiveness.
• 0:47
  Polly Mertens: Damn, it's a hot topic, lady.
• 0:49
  Polly Mertens: Yeah, yeah.
• 0:51
  Polly Mertens: And I love our spin on this.
• 0:52
  Polly Mertens: So we yeah, most people are thinking, like, oh yeah, I got these people, like I'm never gonna forgive them, or you know, whatever they're holding on to.
• 0:58
  Polly Mertens: But we got a little something, a little something to talk about here because it's not just about the other person and what they did and what happened and whatnot.
• 1:06
  Polly Mertens: So where was the surprise?
• 1:10
  Polly Mertens: Woo-hoo! Yeah, and I I do have the definition.
• 1:12
  Polly Mertens: Should I set the stage with the definition of forgiveness where it comes from?
• 1:15
  Polly Mertens: Sure.
• 1:16
  Polly Mertens: Okay, very fun.
• 1:17
  Polly Mertens: So forgiveness is the intentional process of releasing resentment, uh, anger, or blame towards someone who caused harm.
• 1:25
  Polly Mertens: And guess what?
• 1:26
  Polly Mertens: Including yourself.
• 1:28
  Polly Mertens: The Latin root perdonary means to give completely without reservation.
• 1:34
  Polly Mertens: Uh-uh.
• 1:35
  Polly Mertens: Isn't that interesting?
• 1:36
  Polly Mertens: To give completely without reservation.
• 1:37
  Polly Mertens: That's interesting.
• 1:38
  Polly Mertens: Okay.
• 1:39
  Polly Mertens: Critically, forgiveness does not necessarily mean reconciling with the person who upset you or condoning the action.
• 1:46
  Polly Mertens: I think that's where people, you know, get that confused, is they're like, I can't forgive, because like that means that I think it's okay.
• 1:51
  Polly Mertens: In forgiveness, I love this.
• 1:54
  Polly Mertens: You seek the peace and understanding that come from blaming people less after they offend you and taking these offenses less personally.
• 2:04
  Samantha Pruitt: Right?
• 2:05
  Samantha Pruitt: That all seems pretty complicated.
• 2:07
  Samantha Pruitt: I have a simplified version of that.
• 2:08
  Samantha Pruitt: Let's hear the side the proof version.
• 2:11
  Samantha Pruitt: That sounds like a whole lot of thinking.
• 2:13
  Samantha Pruitt: Too much, too much uh in the brain.
• 2:15
  Samantha Pruitt: Okay.
• 2:16
  Samantha Pruitt: So much of this is emotionally charged and emotionally driven.
• 2:21
  Samantha Pruitt: Yes.
• 2:22
  Samantha Pruitt: So I think of it as a release of the constriction around the heart.
• 2:27
  Samantha Pruitt: That simple.
• 2:29
  Samantha Pruitt: Forgiveness is a release of the restriction around the heart.
• 2:35
  Polly Mertens: When you say that, I think of like, I think of our heart space as like where our life force flows through us, and like when we're in a loving state, like life force, I don't know whether it comes from behind you, above you, through you, whatever you want to call it, but just like it flows out through your heart towards other people.
• 2:50
  Polly Mertens: Like if it's open, the door is open, as you might say.
• 2:53
  Polly Mertens: It's flowing, or it can be closed, right?
• 2:55
  Polly Mertens: You're like, oh, I closed myself off to that person.
• 2:57
  Polly Mertens: And you feel it when you just feel like legit disconnect, or you cut someone off or out of your life because you've been hurt, you know, or the story you're telling yourself.
• 3:05
  Polly Mertens: So I get like the constriction around the heart.
• 3:07
  Samantha Pruitt: Say more, say more, and it makes you feel sick.
• 3:10
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah, it does.
• 3:12
  Samantha Pruitt: You know, you might think it's directed at the other if there's an othering part to this, but it's actually internally affecting you.
• 3:21
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah, because sometimes people are pissed off at other people and they don't even know.
• 3:26
  Samantha Pruitt: The other person doesn't even know what the hell they're talking about is going on living their happiest life, which is so crazy that that actually happens quite a bit, or to whatever degree there might be a rift or something.
• 3:40
  Samantha Pruitt: You know, the one person thinks it's no big deal, and the other is completely like in shock mode over there.
• 3:46
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah, but that restriction inside your personal heart or heart path or heart energy, if you want to look at it as energy, is a restriction of your body's function and your brain function out in the world, right?
• 3:59
  Samantha Pruitt: Not just a connection to other people, but the connection to yourself, a restriction.
• 4:04
  Polly Mertens: Yeah, yeah, because it's all going on inside.
• 4:07
  Polly Mertens: And that's the that's the big thing that I want to shine the light on here is like people look outside for you know, blaming or assigning responsibility or whatever.
• 4:17
  Polly Mertens: And the suffering, the constriction, the the lack of energy, vitality, stress, whatever that person is experienced, sadness, hurt, resentment is inside of us.
• 4:27
  Polly Mertens: It's all in in internal game, right?
• 4:30
  Polly Mertens: So I get it.
• 4:32
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah, I get it.
• 4:32
  Samantha Pruitt: It doesn't mean the other person didn't do something naughty or horrible.
• 4:35
  Samantha Pruitt: Um, we're not talking about that.
• 4:37
  Samantha Pruitt: We're talking about how it manifests and really how it becomes your problem, your very intimate personal problem.
• 4:44
  Samantha Pruitt: And know that you're the source of it.
• 4:47
  Polly Mertens: You're you're ultimately the source of it.
• 4:49
  Polly Mertens: I that's where I'm I'm gonna go with yeah, yeah.
• 4:51
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah.
• 4:52
  Samantha Pruitt: What it what forgiveness is not oh, yeah, okay.
• 4:55
  Samantha Pruitt: So also in addition to that, you know, I'm in this course, a year to live, and one of my Dharma teachers, Frank Astaseki.
• 5:02
  Samantha Pruitt: So he's got the great book.
• 5:06
  Samantha Pruitt: You also have been um reading it, The Five Invitations.
• 5:10
  Samantha Pruitt: Amazing.
• 5:11
  Samantha Pruitt: Get that book, yeah.
• 5:12
  Samantha Pruitt: But he says that all forgiveness is self-forgiveness.
• 5:18
  Samantha Pruitt: Boom.
• 5:20
  Samantha Pruitt: How about them, apples?
• 5:22
  Samantha Pruitt: All forgiveness is self-forgiveness.
• 5:24
  Samantha Pruitt: Boom, baby.
• 5:26
  Samantha Pruitt: I know, I know.
• 5:27
  Samantha Pruitt: It's like I was like, wait, what?
• 5:29
  Samantha Pruitt: That's what that was kind of fun to unpack this last weekend when we were in course.
• 5:34
  Samantha Pruitt: Let's talk about what forgiveness is not, and then we will get into why Frank's saying that and sort of what that means when we talk about self-forgiveness.
• 5:42
  Samantha Pruitt: But forgiveness is not about justice.
• 5:44
  Samantha Pruitt: Okay, justice still needs to be served.
• 5:48
  Samantha Pruitt: People do things, and there needs to be justice served upon the wrath of evildoers.
• 5:54
  Samantha Pruitt: Hell to the yes.
• 5:56
  Samantha Pruitt: Um, but forgiveness is not about justice or the others, and it does not require a reconciliation, which is what you spoke about just briefly earlier.
• 6:04
  Samantha Pruitt: You don't have to reconcile with anybody, you don't actually even need to talk to them or involve them in any way, shape, or form to be able to experience forgiveness for yourself with the external world as well.
• 6:18
  Samantha Pruitt: Okay.
• 6:20
  Samantha Pruitt: And justice does need to be served, no doubt about it.
• 6:23
  Polly Mertens: And there's severities, you know.
• 6:25
  Polly Mertens: I would just, I just want to point to, you know, we in a last podcast we did, we talked about, you know, like there's severities of things too, right?
• 6:33
  Polly Mertens: So the degree of insult or rejection or hurt or whatever, right?
• 6:39
  Polly Mertens: So, you know, as we talk about this, just know that we recognize there are severities, you know, and and there's and the more sometimes severe the injustice, the hurt, the you know, the crime.
• 6:52
  Polly Mertens: Yeah, the crime, yeah.
• 6:53
  Polly Mertens: Yeah, yeah.
• 6:54
  Polly Mertens: The action, the trauma, whatever was caused, um, we get it's harder for that releasing, right?
• 7:00
  Polly Mertens: You know, so you may hold on to that.
• 7:01
  Polly Mertens: And the impact on you probably is equally more painful to the heart or wherever it gets stored in the body.
• 7:07
  Polly Mertens: So just know like we're not like piddling this, like, oh yeah, like that you guys are talking about like little tiny forgivenesses, you know, like little white lies or something like that.
• 7:16
  Polly Mertens: Like, we get that there's severity in this, right?
• 7:21
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah, absolutely.
• 7:22
  Samantha Pruitt: No shortage of people have been harmed in many, many, many ways.
• 7:26
  Samantha Pruitt: The point for our conversation today is to empower them to reclaim their own healing around that and their own story or life journey related to these experiences so that they can move forward, right?
• 7:41
  Samantha Pruitt: That's what we're all about.
• 7:42
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah.
• 7:42
  Samantha Pruitt: Um, many people are born into causes and conditions that cause them to do horrible things.
• 7:48
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah, we're not greenlighting or glossing over that or excusing that in any way, shape, or form.
• 7:55
  Samantha Pruitt: There's plenty of people that um, yeah, it's unfortunate, right?
• 8:00
  Polly Mertens: And there's no like not uh you know, uh acknowledging something happened, right?
• 8:05
  Polly Mertens: Right.
• 8:05
  Polly Mertens: It's not like we're not saying, like, oh, that didn't happen.
• 8:07
  Polly Mertens: You should just forgive them and move on.
• 8:08
  Polly Mertens: It's like, okay, whatever happened, that happened, yes, right.
• 8:11
  Polly Mertens: And so what so what so?
• 8:14
  Polly Mertens: Okay, so what, right?
• 8:15
  Polly Mertens: And we're looking at the so what.
• 8:17
  Polly Mertens: Now what do you do?
• 8:18
  Polly Mertens: You know, what do you hold on to?
• 8:19
  Polly Mertens: And are you gonna give yourself the power to release what we're about to go into?
• 8:23
  Polly Mertens: It's like what you're holding on to, right?
• 8:25
  Samantha Pruitt: And I believe it should be the person's choice.
• 8:27
  Samantha Pruitt: Like, I do not believe that religions or laws or environments or groups or whatever all should ever force somebody to confront their, you know, the person who harmed them or whatever.
• 8:42
  Samantha Pruitt: All I know there's a lot of that kind of stuff out in the world.
• 8:45
  Samantha Pruitt: I personally believe that's the choice of the victim or the person that had the experience, and people should not be put in those circumstances because of guilt or shame or forced for any particular reason to even re-enter the room, the conversation, the connection, none of that stuff.
• 9:03
  Samantha Pruitt: I that's to me that is not it's a slippery slope.
• 9:09
  Samantha Pruitt: It could work for some people, but I think forcing people to do that is not healthy, has to be their choice.
• 9:14
  Polly Mertens: And there's different ways that you can forgive, right?
• 9:18
  Polly Mertens: There's like the core and then how it gets expressed, right?
• 9:21
  Polly Mertens: You know, so that's what we're gonna some of what we'll talk about is you know, sometimes it's you know, spoken to the person, sometimes it's a letter, sometimes it's phone call, sometimes it's just you know, they've passed away and you do it, you know, so you're not like doing anything but your own thing, right?
• 9:36
  Polly Mertens: So how you choose totally how you choose to demonstrate or signify or ceremonially whatever it is for you.
• 9:44
  Polly Mertens: So yeah.
• 9:45
  Samantha Pruitt: Just like it's not really up to anybody else to determine or judge.
• 9:50
  Samantha Pruitt: Um, that really wasn't serious enough.
• 9:52
  Samantha Pruitt: You shouldn't be holding the grudge.
• 9:53
  Samantha Pruitt: That didn't really hurt you.
• 9:55
  Samantha Pruitt: You're fine, you know.
• 9:56
  Samantha Pruitt: I mean, a lot of us were raised this way, by the way.
• 9:59
  Samantha Pruitt: Dust it off, move forward, suck it up, let it go.
• 10:02
  Samantha Pruitt: I can think of a thousand things.
• 10:04
  Samantha Pruitt: Um, I'm in a professional work environment right now.
• 10:07
  Samantha Pruitt: There's been some weird behaviors we're addressing with the humans.
• 10:10
  Samantha Pruitt: Humans are complicated, it gets messy, but there are a few people that are of that sort of school of thought, like, hey, just let's just blow it off and move on.
• 10:18
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah, no, first of all, you don't get to be the judge of that because it didn't happen to you.
• 10:24
  Samantha Pruitt: And also the circumstances are they need to be addressed professionally and appropriately and so forth, right?
• 10:31
  Samantha Pruitt: So we're not here to judge, and nobody should be judging for another, um, the level of severity for people, you know, coming to terms with this kind of stuff and tackling forgiveness themselves.
• 10:42
  Samantha Pruitt: For sure, for sure.
• 10:44
  Polly Mertens: And core of what we're out to is freedom, freedom for each person, and that peace that comes from freeing yourself with that forgiveness.
• 10:52
  Polly Mertens: So let's let's get into it.
• 10:54
  Samantha Pruitt: Why should they forgive, though?
• 10:56
  Samantha Pruitt: Why should people practice forgiveness, Polly?
• 10:59
  Samantha Pruitt: I wanted to hear your answer.
• 11:02
  Polly Mertens: Um, I've got a bunch.
• 11:04
  Samantha Pruitt: Um, I mean, the biggest thing that comes up for me, and it's just sort of a big blanket or umbrella statement around it, is you know, to be able to harness those wounds, those scars for the betterment of yourself in life.
• 11:19
  Samantha Pruitt: So I look at it always, probably because I'm a physical person and I think about muscles and tissues and whatever, right?
• 11:24
  Samantha Pruitt: But scar too, there's a wound and it's a gaping wound and it's bleeding.
• 11:28
  Samantha Pruitt: A trail runner, a friend of mine, just sent me a picture this morning.
• 11:31
  Samantha Pruitt: Literally, her lip is cut open and her face, and she just did a full-on face plant on the trail.
• 11:37
  Samantha Pruitt: I'm like, no, girl.
• 11:39
  Samantha Pruitt: So that does happen, right?
• 11:41
  Samantha Pruitt: Gaping wounds happen, and then the body will slowly over time heal that with scar tissue, which is remarkable.
• 11:51
  Samantha Pruitt: The human body is remarkable, right?
• 11:53
  Samantha Pruitt: All of these cells and the immune system, all these things will activate in order for that healing pathway to happen.
• 11:58
  Samantha Pruitt: That's true for emotional and psychological wounds as well.
• 12:02
  Samantha Pruitt: And then it builds a stronger foundation if you choose to leverage it for that connective tissue to move forward so that heart can be stronger, that connective tissue around the wound can be stronger.
• 12:17
  Samantha Pruitt: Like maybe you get better boundaries, maybe you get better communication style, maybe you get whatever.
• 12:23
  Samantha Pruitt: You develop other aspects of resiliency over that experience.
• 12:27
  Samantha Pruitt: And to me, that's money.
• 12:30
  Samantha Pruitt: Money.
• 12:31
  Samantha Pruitt: That's why I'm freaking a warrior, dude.
• 12:33
  Samantha Pruitt: It's like so much bullshit.
• 12:36
  Samantha Pruitt: Okay.
• 12:37
  Samantha Pruitt: I mean, and you can either take it in and utilize it to your advantage, or like you said earlier, you can make it your story and attach yourself to the suffering and allow that to control your path forward.
• 12:52
  Polly Mertens: There is a choice here.
• 12:53
  Polly Mertens: Yeah, and I think you and I, you know, so like the visual that came up for me when I thought about, you know, the key word in that first definition I gave you is the intentional releasing of whatever.
• 13:03
  Polly Mertens: And I then you insert resentment, anger, blame, whatever.
• 13:07
  Polly Mertens: I look at those as like energy baggage, like it's energy baggage in the body.
• 13:12
  Polly Mertens: And the intentional releasing, I'm thinking of holding on to these stories of resentment is like an anchor.
• 13:18
  Polly Mertens: Like you're you're like, I'm just gonna lug around, you know, an extra 20 pounds of junk, you know, baggage with me, right?
• 13:26
  Polly Mertens: It slows you down.
• 13:27
  Polly Mertens: It it's not it releases, you know, it reduces your vitality and your energy.
• 13:31
  Polly Mertens: And I'll tell you from a neuroscience standpoint in studying hypnosis and how the brain works and it links things up, right?
• 13:36
  Polly Mertens: So you have this experience and it gets very so the mind stores literally a picture or a video of that entire thing, like a snapshot, like the moment of something happening, or the video of the thing happening and they experienced you what they said, whatever.
• 13:52
  Polly Mertens: And guess what?
• 13:52
  Polly Mertens: You probably don't have the playback exactly right, just FYI.
• 13:55
  Polly Mertens: Like it's not quite quoted, you know.
• 13:58
  Polly Mertens: Quite what you think happened, happened.
• 14:01
  Polly Mertens: So it gets that, and all and literally the human brain memory is fucking fascinating.
• 14:08
  Polly Mertens: So all the sensory things, whatever you smelled, heard, you know, the music that was going on, or what they said, or whatever, all that gets stored around that image, right?
• 14:17
  Polly Mertens: So it's fascinating how you can, you know, you people see this definitely when you like have a strong relationship, and maybe there's a favorite song you guys had, and then you break up and then you hear that song, and it reminds you of that person.
• 14:29
  Polly Mertens: Okay, same thing happens in these traumatic events of uh reliving some painful traumatic event or whatnot.
• 14:36
  Polly Mertens: So I look at the forgiveness is you like soften the edges and you soften the impact of that because guess what?
• 14:45
  Polly Mertens: Those things that have that level of emotional charge, the more charged it is, the more it's going to attract more things like it.
• 14:52
  Polly Mertens: Guess what, sister?
• 14:54
  Polly Mertens: You're gonna find more people to do that stuff to you, you know, and it's like if we can soften the edges of that that blow or that resentment by forgiving it and blessing it, it's like, okay, I like you, I love what you said.
• 15:05
  Polly Mertens: It's like I grew out of it, right?
• 15:07
  Polly Mertens: Like, yeah, that's what happened, and I'm this.
• 15:09
  Polly Mertens: Like you create a neuro association, like, and I'm stronger, I'm a boundaries boss, I'm you know, I don't get I'm not a doormat anymore, or I speak my truth, or whatever, like you come out of that.
• 15:19
  Polly Mertens: But the next time the brain goes down that pathway of something happening, like, and I have good boundaries, and I'm, you know, I speak for up for myself, and I whatever, you know, so you can rewire that when it gets stuck and stored as an image or a movie, and we just fester it, it's like, you know, it just a that anchor and that weight.
• 15:38
  Polly Mertens: So just wanted to.
• 15:40
  Samantha Pruitt: And then you can see how because you have an anger or resentment, a grudge, something you're holding against another, it doesn't have to be traumatic, it can be, you know, an argument or something on a smaller scale, right?
• 15:54
  Samantha Pruitt: But how that has an energy to it, and then I'm pissed off, okay, because I've got a spark of that energy left from the argument this morning or the guy, whatever the thing is.
• 16:08
  Samantha Pruitt: And then I move around in the world the rest of the day with that energy vibration, yeah, anger, we'll call it in this case, or it could be sadness, it could be hurt, whatever.
• 16:22
  Samantha Pruitt: Um, and I kind of start looking at that through the lens of that and attracting that.
• 16:28
  Samantha Pruitt: So now I'm pissed off at the barista who screwed up my drink, and now I'm pissed off at the guy who cut me off as I'm driving down the road, and now I'm just pissed off at everything.
• 16:36
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah, right.
• 16:36
  Samantha Pruitt: I'm carrying around that emotional charge, that energetic emotional charge called anger with me for the rest of the day.
• 16:44
  Samantha Pruitt: And I might take it out on my child or my spouse or you know, whatever, perfect strangers.
• 16:49
  Samantha Pruitt: Again, the barista, you know, is just there trying to make me the best coffee ever.
• 16:53
  Samantha Pruitt: So, like having awareness is such a big part of it, right?
• 16:59
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah, yeah.
• 17:01
  Polly Mertens: Yeah, because what's happening is like you've put on a set of glasses, like people are this way, whatever.
• 17:06
  Polly Mertens: That situation caused a set of glasses to come on.
• 17:09
  Polly Mertens: You created a paradigm out of a you know, bad experience that could have been a one-off, you know, could have just been like one-off, and if you let it go, it's like, nope, that's not the way the world is and people are.
• 17:18
  Polly Mertens: Nope, that's just the way that person is and they were then, and I walked into it and it was a bad moment, or whatever.
• 17:23
  Polly Mertens: Like, nope, nope, that's the way that the world is and people are.
• 17:25
  Polly Mertens: And so you go out in the world and you're like, who else is like this?
• 17:27
  Polly Mertens: Oh, you're like this, you know, and then you just uh, you know, you're just gonna bring more to you.
• 17:33
  Polly Mertens: Stop it.
• 17:35
  Polly Mertens: Stop that, stop it, stop that.
• 17:38
  Samantha Pruitt: I wrote a little note about PTG, which is post-traumatic growth.
• 17:41
  Samantha Pruitt: I feel like we mentioned this in another podcast, post-traumatic growth, right?
• 17:45
  Samantha Pruitt: So it's the question um posed all the time in research studies about why some people who have a really negative experience and are harmed in some way, physically, emotionally, otherwise, um, what do they do with it?
• 17:58
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah.
• 17:59
  Samantha Pruitt: And why do some people experience, you know, depression, anxiety, and all these other negative repercussions and stay kind of stuck in that.
• 18:07
  Samantha Pruitt: And others do not.
• 18:09
  Samantha Pruitt: They find growth out of it.
• 18:10
  Samantha Pruitt: Um, they create meaning and purpose connected to the thing, the incident, we'll just call it.
• 18:15
  Samantha Pruitt: Um, they discover their own inner strength through the process of overcoming.
• 18:21
  Samantha Pruitt: I love that.
• 18:22
  Samantha Pruitt: They build a deeper connection to others through the support that they might be connecting to in order to get their healing accomplished and their communication happening, you know.
• 18:32
  Samantha Pruitt: They build resiliency by reframing, adapting, growing, and then ultimately expressing freedom through the experience, which is what I alluded to earlier.
• 18:41
  Polly Mertens: Boy, as you put as you put all this together, post-traumatic, I saw like the rebuilding of the human and like they're stronger because of it, you know, emotionally stronger, emotionally more um astute, resilient.
• 18:55
  Polly Mertens: Um totally.
• 18:57
  Samantha Pruitt: Okay, so I have another question.
• 18:59
  Samantha Pruitt: I have so many questions.
• 19:00
  Samantha Pruitt: Today's the day for questions.
• 19:02
  Samantha Pruitt: Speak up, class.
• 19:03
  Samantha Pruitt: Are you ready?
• 19:04
  Samantha Pruitt: This was one of the questions we were asked in our workshop this weekend.
• 19:07
  Samantha Pruitt: Ooh, okay, so one of the questions was what gets you in the way of forgiving others?
• 19:14
  Samantha Pruitt: What gets you, and we are suggesting people should journal this if they want to work on forgiveness.
• 19:19
  Samantha Pruitt: So one of the questions is what gets in the way of you forgiving others.
• 19:26
  Polly Mertens: Well, you and I have trouble answering these because we're such we're like, fuck that, let that shit go.
• 19:31
  Polly Mertens: But what would?
• 19:32
  Samantha Pruitt: Well, these are some of the things that came up.
• 19:34
  Samantha Pruitt: I know I was like, I don't know if I'm pissed off at anybody right now.
• 19:38
  Samantha Pruitt: I mean, I have spent many years though, pissed off.
• 19:41
  Samantha Pruitt: I mean, I'm gonna say, but most of those incidents or situations I would generally turn against myself, and we'll get into that self-forgiveness piece the second half.
• 19:51
  Samantha Pruitt: That was my magic trick.
• 19:53
  Samantha Pruitt: Let's not be doing that.
• 19:55
  Samantha Pruitt: What gets in the way of forgiving others?
• 19:57
  Samantha Pruitt: Um, wanting justice or the other person to have remorse.
• 20:01
  Samantha Pruitt: Lots of people cling to that.
• 20:03
  Samantha Pruitt: Suffering.
• 20:04
  Samantha Pruitt: You need to suffer over there, right?
• 20:06
  Samantha Pruitt: So justice still needs to be served in many instances.
• 20:09
  Samantha Pruitt: Of course it does.
• 20:10
  Samantha Pruitt: And you have to have a greater belief in the laws of all of that, um, or the other person having resource.
• 20:16
  Samantha Pruitt: Remorse, you're not responsible, and you can never control how the other person is going to respond.
• 20:21
  Samantha Pruitt: That's their damn job.
• 20:22
  Samantha Pruitt: Okay, you need to just be all up in your own business.
• 20:24
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah.
• 20:25
  Samantha Pruitt: Um, attachment, so needing of attachment or fear of rejection.
• 20:29
  Samantha Pruitt: So, you know, if I don't forgive you, or if I do forgive you, you know, will I be rejected?
• 20:34
  Samantha Pruitt: Will we still have an attachment bond?
• 20:37
  Samantha Pruitt: All of those kinds, that's just primal shit right there.
• 20:40
  Polly Mertens: Wow.
• 20:41
  Samantha Pruitt: Super primal stuff.
• 20:42
  Samantha Pruitt: And you can see why a lot of us just go, you know, interesting.
• 20:47
  Polly Mertens: Yeah.
• 20:47
  Samantha Pruitt: And it can be positive or negative, which I think is super interesting too, right?
• 20:51
  Samantha Pruitt: Like, so if I do forgive you, then I can be attached to you again and we can be back together.
• 20:58
  Samantha Pruitt: I'll be safe.
• 20:59
  Samantha Pruitt: You know, that attachment will come back in.
• 21:02
  Samantha Pruitt: Um, if I don't, then I'm rejecting you before you reject me, right?
• 21:08
  Samantha Pruitt: There's this whole dynamic that can be at play there.
• 21:11
  Samantha Pruitt: I do think unfortunately, that's a big one for people because it's so primal.
• 21:15
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah, yeah, you know?
• 21:17
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah.
• 21:17
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah.
• 21:18
  Samantha Pruitt: Fear and fear is interesting because sometimes when people are angry, they feel safe in the anger.
• 21:27
  Samantha Pruitt: Like if I stay angry, I'm actually in control of this, you motherfucker.
• 21:31
  Samantha Pruitt: And I'm in control here, and I am the boss of this, and so I'm gonna be telling you how this is going to go, and I'm gonna be trapped in that.
• 21:38
  Polly Mertens: Well, on the emotional ladder, right?
• 21:40
  Polly Mertens: So if we look at, you know, disempowered is so the disempowered states of like depression, helplessness, hopelessness, whatever, like the low, low, low energy states.
• 21:49
  Polly Mertens: Moving up the ladder, if you look at the ladder of emotional, you know, regulation.
• 21:54
  Polly Mertens: Yeah, so the highest would be like joy and bliss, whatever.
• 21:57
  Polly Mertens: We're at the very bottom stages.
• 21:59
  Polly Mertens: Anger is a higher state.
• 22:01
  Polly Mertens: So it's why we so we get a little bit of power back by being in anger as opposed to being disempowered.
• 22:06
  Polly Mertens: Yeah.
• 22:07
  Polly Mertens: So it's it's actually that person starting to help themselves.
• 22:11
  Polly Mertens: Yeah.
• 22:11
  Samantha Pruitt: Mm-hmm.
• 22:11
  Samantha Pruitt: Problem is when people get stuck there.
• 22:14
  Samantha Pruitt: Stuck there.
• 22:14
  Polly Mertens: No, no, don't park.
• 22:16
  Polly Mertens: We're not gonna park stuck anywhere.
• 22:18
  Polly Mertens: Don't park your car in there.
• 22:19
  Polly Mertens: No, it's a drive-thru.
• 22:21
  Polly Mertens: No, it's a drive-thru.
• 22:22
  Samantha Pruitt: Keep uh we already mentioned this several times.
• 22:24
  Samantha Pruitt: Confusing, confusing forgiveness with reconciliation.
• 22:27
  Samantha Pruitt: Okay, they're they're not the same thing, you don't need to reconcile with anybody.
• 22:31
  Samantha Pruitt: Okay, true.
• 22:32
  Samantha Pruitt: Uh rumination of the past.
• 22:34
  Samantha Pruitt: Dang, lots of people do this.
• 22:36
  Samantha Pruitt: This is fascinating.
• 22:38
  Samantha Pruitt: I'm sure I do it too.
• 22:40
  Samantha Pruitt: Um, the problem with ruminating over and over and over about you know what transpired and reliving it, and what if they said this and what if I'd done that, and blah blah blah, and all the things is you make zero room, you allow zero room or oxygen in the thoughts and in the brain for moving forward.
• 22:56
  Samantha Pruitt: You just continue to circle the wagons, circle the wagons, looking for something that could have, should have, maybe, will be different.
• 23:07
  Samantha Pruitt: There's no moving forward.
• 23:09
  Polly Mertens: I have not seen a person successful yet change the past.
• 23:12
  Polly Mertens: Haven't seen it.
• 23:13
  Polly Mertens: I mean, I don't know.
• 23:15
  Polly Mertens: That would be pretty mad.
• 23:16
  Polly Mertens: I haven't seen it.
• 23:17
  Polly Mertens: So you might just want to go, okay, that is what happened.
• 23:20
  Polly Mertens: All right.
• 23:21
  Polly Mertens: And and what's so, you know.
• 23:23
  Samantha Pruitt: And you know what's so interesting about that is what something you said a few minutes ago is lots of people actually don't.
• 23:28
  Samantha Pruitt: Okay.
• 23:29
  Samantha Pruitt: I was explaining this to someone the other day.
• 23:32
  Samantha Pruitt: I won't give details.
• 23:33
  Samantha Pruitt: But like how the other experienced it is not the same as how I'm experiencing it anyway.
• 23:40
  Samantha Pruitt: Okay, I'm experiencing it through all of my belief systems, past experiences, everything I bring to the table that's me right now, today in this moment, at this age, blah, blah, blah.
• 23:49
  Samantha Pruitt: And that person experienced it completely different, of course, through their own lens and experience and values, et cetera, et cetera.
• 23:57
  Samantha Pruitt: So they're not even the same thing.
• 23:59
  Polly Mertens: Yeah.
• 24:00
  Polly Mertens: I had two experiences just now that you're saying this.
• 24:02
  Polly Mertens: I'm like, oh wow, I bet you there's people out there that are thinking that I they I need to be for or I should be forgiven.
• 24:09
  Polly Mertens: And I didn't even like one guy was like, hey, you did this and that.
• 24:12
  Polly Mertens: I was like, oh wow, that was even a thing.
• 24:14
  Polly Mertens: You know, like so, and and there was no malicious intent or whatever, but like, unless you had brought it to me, I was non-plus.
• 24:22
  Polly Mertens: Like, I didn't, I didn't even see it, right?
• 24:24
  Polly Mertens: Like it was not even my realm of possibility.
• 24:26
  Polly Mertens: And the same with the second one.
• 24:28
  Polly Mertens: She was like, Hey, I think this is out of whack and this and that.
• 24:31
  Polly Mertens: And I was like, Okay, you see that?
• 24:33
  Polly Mertens: I I don't see that.
• 24:34
  Polly Mertens: Okay.
• 24:34
  Polly Mertens: And she's like, You don't see that?
• 24:35
  Polly Mertens: I'm like, I don't, I don't see it though, you know, and so you know, we could just be going around in our own bubbles and own worlds.
• 24:42
  Polly Mertens: So we pretty much are because guess what?
• 24:47
  Polly Mertens: This brain, each brain, yeah, each brain is just uniquely um carved of our experiences, so how we see the world, what's happened to us in our lifetime, and where we grew up and all that stuff.
• 25:00
  Polly Mertens: Like that's the lens where filtering all this stuff called life through.
• 25:04
  Polly Mertens: And like you said, no two people are gonna see the exact same thing the same way.
• 25:08
  Polly Mertens: One person has a completely different reaction than the other one.
• 25:10
  Polly Mertens: So that's where she and I were looking at us, like, I don't see it.
• 25:13
  Polly Mertens: And she's like, You don't see that?
• 25:14
  Polly Mertens: I'm like, I could see why you see that, but I don't see that.
• 25:18
  Samantha Pruitt: Which leads to one of the things, and this did ring true for me in terms of forgiveness when I started to do my own work around it.
• 25:26
  Samantha Pruitt: Uh, I have this idea that I need to understand what they were thinking, or like what was the logic or reasoning?
• 25:36
  Samantha Pruitt: Like, why did they do the thing?
• 25:37
  Samantha Pruitt: I'll just use a parent example without a lot of details.
• 25:40
  Samantha Pruitt: Like, why did my parents say X, Y, Z at a certain junction in my life that was a critical make or break moment for me?
• 25:46
  Samantha Pruitt: Why did they choose this direction to say these things and do these things?
• 25:52
  Samantha Pruitt: Did they not understand the impact it would have on me?
• 25:55
  Samantha Pruitt: What the hell were they thinking?
• 25:57
  Samantha Pruitt: Kind of thing.
• 25:57
  Samantha Pruitt: And I was like, Well, how the hell am I ever gonna know?
• 26:00
  Samantha Pruitt: First of all, they're not with us anymore, they've moved on.
• 26:02
  Samantha Pruitt: But I don't remember, yeah.
• 26:04
  Samantha Pruitt: No, and why should I get attached to that?
• 26:07
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah, how what is how does that serve me in any way, shape, or form today?
• 26:13
  Polly Mertens: Well, the brain is trying to go, well, maybe if they didn't mean it, then I could let them off that, you know, like it's looking for a way to justify instead of just yeah, excuse or oh, that less offense, you know, it's like a less offensive what they did or whatever.
• 26:28
  Polly Mertens: Yeah, yeah.
• 26:28
  Polly Mertens: So that's the ego, basically.
• 26:30
  Polly Mertens: I need to know why.
• 26:31
  Polly Mertens: There's a shortcut.
• 26:32
  Polly Mertens: Yeah, there's a shortcut.
• 26:33
  Polly Mertens: Just skip the why, you know.
• 26:35
  Polly Mertens: If you could just call me, hey, remember that thing that happened 40 years ago?
• 26:40
  Polly Mertens: Let's talk about it.
• 26:41
  Polly Mertens: I don't know what I'm talking about.
• 26:44
  Samantha Pruitt: Oh my god.
• 26:44
  Samantha Pruitt: Okay, so do you have anything to add to that?
• 26:47
  Samantha Pruitt: What gets in the way of people forgiving others or you, if you want to give yourself as any the the thing, why is it hard to forgive others?
• 26:56
  Polly Mertens: Well, I think the thing I would add, maybe, and I think you know, if I say this out loud or if it's occurred to me, I'm probably doing it or have done it.
• 27:03
  Polly Mertens: So we'll we'll see.
• 27:05
  Polly Mertens: But what wants to come out is um we get to be a victim.
• 27:10
  Polly Mertens: We get to blame someone else for how we're feeling.
• 27:13
  Polly Mertens: We get to, you know, be pissed off, we get to, you know, whatever, justify, you know, pulling away from that person or whatever it is, you know.
• 27:23
  Polly Mertens: So it gives us a rationalization for our lack of, you know, closure and you know, whatever.
• 27:30
  Polly Mertens: And not to say that it's intelligent or, you know, emotionally mature and helpful for you.
• 27:37
  Polly Mertens: I'm just saying that could be one of the reasons is either intentionally or unintentionally staying in a victim state or like, you know, getting so you know, what I say is um there's a payoff to be behavior, right?
• 27:51
  Polly Mertens: Pros and cons, right?
• 27:52
  Polly Mertens: So somebody's getting some payoff by being that way, right?
• 27:58
  Polly Mertens: Whether they're conscious of it or unconscious of it, there's a payoff.
• 28:01
  Samantha Pruitt: So well, if I stay stuck in this story, yeah, it's a lot less work for me.
• 28:05
  Samantha Pruitt: I really don't have to get busy sorting my own shit out because I can just keep pointing to Thelman Louise over here who've done done me wrong, right?
• 28:13
  Samantha Pruitt: It's holding me back, blah, blah, blah.
• 28:15
  Polly Mertens: And I love how I don't love, but I I see it a lot.
• 28:19
  Polly Mertens: Let me say that differently.
• 28:20
  Polly Mertens: I see it a lot where people justify playing small for a lot of years, months, years of their life because of something that happened so long ago.
• 28:33
  Polly Mertens: It's like, can you even remember who you were then?
• 28:36
  Polly Mertens: Like, can you like how young were you?
• 28:38
  Polly Mertens: Right?
• 28:38
  Polly Mertens: Kind of thing.
• 28:39
  Polly Mertens: But they justify the plateau or where they are in their life because of that thing, and point to it like, well, it can't be that.
• 28:46
  Polly Mertens: It's like, that's not here now.
• 28:47
  Polly Mertens: They're not here now.
• 28:48
  Polly Mertens: What you know?
• 28:49
  Samantha Pruitt: So, yeah, yeah.
• 28:51
  Samantha Pruitt: Well, I'm also doing a lot of study on trauma and stuff like that.
• 28:54
  Samantha Pruitt: And there's some really interesting things around the brain and the brain forming during those moments and why things sort of get trapped, and that is a whole other science-based, like, whoa, dude.
• 29:06
  Samantha Pruitt: But this part that we're talking about, so that's a real thing in brain development itself, and where things start to go terribly wrong and need to be healed.
• 29:17
  Samantha Pruitt: But like for us, this part that we're just speaking about and this ego attachment to, you know, this is part of my identity or my story, and I want to continue to carry it with me on my back because, like you said, in some way, shape, or form, it's serving me.
• 29:33
  Samantha Pruitt: Well, the serving could be it's protecting me from getting close to other people.
• 29:39
  Samantha Pruitt: All sorts of things, yeah.
• 29:40
  Samantha Pruitt: Well, and I just so many things that it can be getting in the freaking way of.
• 29:44
  Polly Mertens: And I'm so glad you brought up what you brought up because I hadn't distinguished that because you're absolutely right.
• 29:48
  Polly Mertens: There can be conscious and subconscious, right?
• 29:51
  Polly Mertens: So a person could be conscious that they're choosing it, and someone could be choosing it subconsciously, and it's like this, you know, torpedo behind them, and it's like killing off relationships, it's killing off possibilities or behavior that could serve them because it's rooted in the subconscious, out of a protection, out of something broke and a relationship and a dynamic, and their brain solved it by like becoming a new way, and it's now a part of their identity or whatnot.
• 30:17
  Polly Mertens: So you're you're absolutely right.
• 30:18
  Samantha Pruitt: Absolutely.
• 30:19
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah.
• 30:19
  Samantha Pruitt: I mean, it's big, it's big work.
• 30:21
  Samantha Pruitt: Ah, dang it.
• 30:23
  Samantha Pruitt: Okay, let's talk about this next question.
• 30:25
  Samantha Pruitt: Are you ready?
• 30:26
  Samantha Pruitt: Let's go.
• 30:27
  Samantha Pruitt: What's standing in the way of you forgiving yourself?
• 30:32
  Samantha Pruitt: Journal question number two.
• 30:34
  Samantha Pruitt: What is standing in the way of you forgiving yourself?
• 30:37
  Samantha Pruitt: I was like, what is he talking about?
• 30:44
  Polly Mertens: Well, first that me, first thing you have to look at is there's something to forgive.
• 30:47
  Polly Mertens: And sometimes we just like hide it from ourselves.
• 30:50
  Polly Mertens: I think I've got a lot of that, you know, bullshit going on over here.
• 30:54
  Samantha Pruitt: So like Well, listen, once we started getting into this, and of course, I was like, Oh, obviously, like, hello, who the hell doesn't have this shit?
• 31:03
  Samantha Pruitt: But we are so constantly like thinking of the other and the outer experience of our lives, right?
• 31:10
  Samantha Pruitt: But then it was like, oh my Lord, literally, I could just have all day long journaled about this because that's again another coping mechanism, right?
• 31:20
  Samantha Pruitt: But it's so much easier, especially when you're young, to develop this um survival skill of turning it against yourself.
• 31:27
  Samantha Pruitt: It's a lot easier for me to take this out on me than it would be to tell you or to act out towards you and be rejected or not be cared for or not be loved or not be fill in the thousand blanks, right?
• 31:40
  Samantha Pruitt: So if I can just keep this all swirling inside me and point the finger, and really it's can be quite self-abuse, you know, in all myriad ways, shapes, and forms that this can come out for us.
• 31:53
  Samantha Pruitt: But it's it's intense.
• 31:55
  Polly Mertens: Well, and I I want to layer a story in here, and I don't even have like I I can't say I've said this story out loud maybe more than once the whole thing, so it may come out just like how it's gonna come out, but there's a dimension in this that I'm resonating with what you're talking about, and that is I'm seeing how um I'll have times and I'm just gonna speak who it's you know, the relationship that it's about, just so it's very, you know, apparent.
• 32:21
  Polly Mertens: It's not like some fictitious relationship.
• 32:22
  Polly Mertens: So my relationship with my mom, there will be things that happen between her and I, I will get angry, frustrated, angry are usually the ones bored or you know, just um impatient.
• 32:33
  Polly Mertens: Those are kind of my like go-tos, if you will.
• 32:35
  Polly Mertens: Those are my triad, but the one that I like the least of myself is the anger, like like um, because my identity is tied, like I have this, you know, good person identity, like with the halo or whatever, like treat people how you want to be treated and love them and stuff.
• 32:52
  Polly Mertens: So like anger does not show up in that same identity.
• 32:55
  Polly Mertens: And I had um my friend was on our last podcast, and she helped me see like that's valid.
• 33:01
  Polly Mertens: Like having that anger is valid, like that person is whatever they're doing, like anger, okay.
• 33:06
  Polly Mertens: Like you had an angry moment, whatever, you got angry, felt anger, whatever it is.
• 33:13
  Polly Mertens: Acknowledge that, right?
• 33:14
  Polly Mertens: I would like well-deserved piss up pissed offering, yeah.
• 33:18
  Polly Mertens: Well, so piss offering.
• 33:19
  Polly Mertens: So, what the loop for me looked like when we were talking about the self-forgiveness is I would immediately go to, I shouldn't be getting angry.
• 33:27
  Polly Mertens: I should know better than this.
• 33:29
  Samantha Pruitt: Make yourself wrong for even having the emotion.
• 33:33
  Samantha Pruitt: Exactly.
• 33:34
  Polly Mertens: So I would shortcut this so fast.
• 33:37
  Polly Mertens: It was like, why, you know, it used to be, right?
• 33:40
  Polly Mertens: Like so when I used to blame before I knew that it was my, I'm the one that's doing it, I would say, she makes me so angry.
• 33:46
  Polly Mertens: I hate that she makes me angry.
• 33:47
  Polly Mertens: And then I'm like, I hate that I get so angry, and I would put all this like self-abuse towards myself, like I hate being angry, you know, and then I would just create all this distant, whatever.
• 33:56
  Polly Mertens: And once I knew that I was the one that was doing it, I couldn't blame her for it.
• 34:00
  Polly Mertens: It was like, no, it's it's you're, you know, it's an inside job, my friend.
• 34:03
  Polly Mertens: Um, but oh, the this has only come to be a new spotlight in my personal growth of like, wow, can I forgive myself that I get angry?
• 34:12
  Polly Mertens: Can I forgive myself that I have moments that I get angry, staying in an angry state or being an angry person or an attitude where people don't want to be around you because you're angry all the time.
• 34:21
  Polly Mertens: Yeah, I don't think I'm gonna go off the deep end.
• 34:23
  Polly Mertens: But yeah, in a lifetime, is it okay to be angry?
• 34:28
  Polly Mertens: Yeah, I had it that it wasn't, right?
• 34:32
  Samantha Pruitt: Well, if you think about this, is where you just your mind is like, what the fuck?
• 34:37
  Samantha Pruitt: Like if you did like a life inventory, which is part of kind of what we're doing, but in this instance, that's not at all what we were assigned to do this in this class.
• 34:44
  Samantha Pruitt: But my mind immediately went to like uh the whole life trajectory, because that's where my lens is in this course, is like, oh, I need to kind of go back to the beginning or whatever.
• 34:53
  Samantha Pruitt: So if you think about like being a young child and just trying to survive in the environment, whatever it is, okay, even if everything is freaking cupcakes and rainbows and shit, okay, stuff is going on in that little brain as it is forming and as you're trying to bump and bruise your way through life, right?
• 35:12
  Samantha Pruitt: And then you get into ages where maybe you start to take some form of self-abuse that could be through, I mean, everybody's got all kinds of things, but it could be with food, it could be relationships, it could be physical punishments upon yourself.
• 35:28
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah, a form of any kind of self-beating or self-punishment, and it comes in so many shapes and sizes.
• 35:36
  Samantha Pruitt: And you see this a lot in childhood behavior when the child is really frustrated or sad or can't express or feels rejected.
• 35:44
  Samantha Pruitt: I mean, you see it outwardly being projected, and then as we and it's socially unacceptable by parents and other people in society, so don't get me started on that.
• 35:55
  Samantha Pruitt: Kids just trying to freaking get these feelings out, right?
• 35:58
  Samantha Pruitt: And then, as a, you know, maybe teen, it can be really dangerous behaviors, you know, it can be things where you're putting yourself in dangerous situations because of it.
• 36:07
  Samantha Pruitt: I totally did that big time, and then in adulthood, you know, where we're still using these behaviors that are self-wounding, and that unpacking that and being able to be honest about it and understand that you were doing your best at that time and not able to operate, you didn't have the skills, you didn't know how to communicate, whatever it was, you could not get it up and out, right?
• 36:34
  Samantha Pruitt: So you internalized it.
• 36:36
  Samantha Pruitt: Carrying that into your adult life, that kind of self-abuse is such a burden and such a load.
• 36:46
  Samantha Pruitt: And I'm telling you, girl, we gotta let that shit out.
• 36:50
  Samantha Pruitt: And it freaking blew my mind even thinking about it because I hadn't really thought of it in a way that, hey, I need to forgive myself for these things, these times in my life where I acted that way towards myself.
• 37:03
  Samantha Pruitt: I just saw it as a survival, right?
• 37:05
  Samantha Pruitt: But I now, as a grown-ass adult woman and witnessing, you know, my own friends, family, or whatever still suffering in these ways and trying to understand their behaviors, it makes so much more sense for me going, wow.
• 37:19
  Samantha Pruitt: I too need to forgive myself.
• 37:22
  Samantha Pruitt: I'm trying to help them forgive themselves and develop their self-worth so they can overcome these things and move through them.
• 37:27
  Samantha Pruitt: But I need to do the same fucking thing.
• 37:29
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah, totally.
• 37:30
  Samantha Pruitt: I mean, what the hell?
• 37:31
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah, teacher and I've never really done that, right?
• 37:35
  Samantha Pruitt: So I thought, okay, how can I do that?
• 37:36
  Samantha Pruitt: And there are some ideas around how to do that and start unpacking it.
• 37:39
  Samantha Pruitt: But first you have to just look at it for reality.
• 37:42
  Polly Mertens: Well, and I think too, you know, there's a I don't know how the, you know, we haven't studied them, but there's like some sort of trend line when you are able to achieve and overcome difficult things, right?
• 37:56
  Polly Mertens: Like you push, you're able to push yourself, you're able to, whatever, like that takes something, uh level, you know, whatever.
• 38:04
  Polly Mertens: And you're not always what you know, like I think like I think if people, if you had people do some of the workouts you do to yourself, they would be like, what are you trying to kill me here?
• 38:14
  Polly Mertens: You know, kind of moment, right?
• 38:16
  Polly Mertens: But you see it as like, yahoo, right?
• 38:19
  Polly Mertens: So like that fine line of like pushing yourself to edges, and I mean the the body breakdown that I've seen you take, you know, in these races and just challenges you you do, it's like um there's there's a beautiful uh thread of of growth and uh self-compassion and stuff.
• 38:41
  Polly Mertens: But if you looked at it from the outside, you'd be like, that person's punishing themselves, right?
• 38:44
  Polly Mertens: And there's there's this line between like how you treat yourself with that and like loving yourself with kindness, you know.
• 38:51
  Polly Mertens: And and I I wonder too, you know, I think about um Kristen Neff has a great um, she's a she's been studying self-forgiveness and has a great TED cut, several great TED talks out there and books.
• 39:01
  Polly Mertens: Um her she says that self-compassion is the pathway to self-forgiveness, right?
• 39:07
  Polly Mertens: That's one of her kind of core tenets.
• 39:08
  Polly Mertens: And I think sometimes when you have this like hard-chargingness, like gotta get things done, being self-compassionate feels like softness and weakness, right?
• 39:20
  Polly Mertens: And it's like, how can those two exist?
• 39:21
  Polly Mertens: But I think there is how can they exist together?
• 39:24
  Polly Mertens: Yeah, like how can I push myself for achievement and like 50 miles and a hundred miles and stuff like that, and be compassionate?
• 39:32
  Samantha Pruitt: It's this like cool people do this with their careers, they do it with making money, they do it with any and all things around, um, trying to be bigger, be better, outperform, out whatever their potential.
• 39:48
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah, they rise exactly.
• 39:50
  Samantha Pruitt: There can be a rising to something really unbelievable, slightly unbelievable.
• 39:55
  Samantha Pruitt: I mean, in many cases, you see people and you're like, what in the hell?
• 39:58
  Samantha Pruitt: How are they getting that done?
• 40:00
  Samantha Pruitt: Right, but how can you, yes, marry that also with compassion?
• 40:05
  Samantha Pruitt: And it's paying attention when you're making the choices and doing the things, how does it actually make me feel?
• 40:13
  Samantha Pruitt: I have been in situations where I'm like, yeah, no, I couldn't feel more alive and more like stoked.
• 40:19
  Samantha Pruitt: And then I've had others where I'm like, what the hell?
• 40:22
  Samantha Pruitt: This is just just make this stop.
• 40:25
  Samantha Pruitt: So now of course I have stopped.
• 40:27
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah, exactly.
• 40:28
  Samantha Pruitt: You know, I mean, I have stopped where it's like, okay, this is ludicrous.
• 40:31
  Samantha Pruitt: I need to just I need to just pull the plug on this.
• 40:33
  Samantha Pruitt: This is not fun anymore.
• 40:35
  Samantha Pruitt: That's what I say.
• 40:36
  Samantha Pruitt: But it's what I'm really saying is this is no longer good for me.
• 40:40
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah, right.
• 40:41
  Samantha Pruitt: I say it's no longer fun, which is also a thing, but I'm saying it's no longer good for me.
• 40:45
  Samantha Pruitt: I want to um throw out a couple other ideas here on why people have a hard time forgiving themselves.
• 40:50
  Samantha Pruitt: They let it define themselves.
• 40:51
  Samantha Pruitt: We already talked about that, they make it their story.
• 40:54
  Samantha Pruitt: Religious or cultural indoctrination.
• 40:57
  Samantha Pruitt: Damn.
• 40:59
  Samantha Pruitt: See, you and I don't think we have that because you know, if we have, we've cleared it.
• 41:05
  Samantha Pruitt: But a lot of people out there do.
• 41:07
  Samantha Pruitt: I'm a little surprised to continuously learn to what extent.
• 41:12
  Samantha Pruitt: And it can be their families' belief systems, it can be the religious belief systems, it can be their schooling, it can be whatever environment they're hanging out in where this is a thing.
• 41:24
  Samantha Pruitt: I know, and that repeated guilt and shame, and you're bad, and all that stuff.
• 41:29
  Samantha Pruitt: I mean, I'm working with women in this group that are in their 70s and they're they're still carrying this around.
• 41:34
  Samantha Pruitt: They want to free themselves from this, you know, it's really painful.
• 41:39
  Polly Mertens: It's so yeah, no, I don't even know what to say about it because there's um you can't have someone not choose their religion.
• 41:45
  Polly Mertens: It's like I I don't know how you reconcile this with some of the fundamental things that those religious some religious bodies have, you know, like the core of like being sinners.
• 41:57
  Samantha Pruitt: Well, you fucking need to question it.
• 41:59
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah, that this is not a truth.
• 42:02
  Polly Mertens: Yeah.
• 42:02
  Samantha Pruitt: Why would everybody just being born and existing be a bad person and a guilty person?
• 42:09
  Polly Mertens: And what in that who made this shit out?
• 42:11
  Polly Mertens: And you and I are like 180 on the other side.
• 42:14
  Polly Mertens: We're like, oh no, you came in as stardust and you're a freaking amazing, and like you just need to be that and like Leo shine it, baby, right?
• 42:23
  Samantha Pruitt: It's like and even if you're a total nutter and have done crazy things, you still deserve, in my opinion, redemption and peace and all the things.
• 42:33
  Polly Mertens: Yeah, and you're not always vying for it.
• 42:35
  Polly Mertens: You know, that that thing in some some religion is like you're always vying for like for keep working for it, keep stacking those coins in the corner.
• 42:41
  Polly Mertens: By the time you get to the, you know, because there's gonna be pearly gays, and then they're gonna judge you, and then you're gonna know if you did all that stuff right.
• 42:47
  Polly Mertens: And if you didn't, like ship, ship, ship, out, exit, exit, stage left, down to hell.
• 42:51
  Samantha Pruitt: Like, yeah, whatever.
• 42:52
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah, so shame and guilt, people are trapped in that.
• 42:54
  Samantha Pruitt: A broken belief system about their self-worth.
• 42:57
  Samantha Pruitt: So I would say, for me, when I was younger, going through all of that, that's what was at the root of it, right?
• 43:05
  Samantha Pruitt: Is I could not connect to who I was, my own identity, my family identity, my society, whatever all the things were.
• 43:14
  Samantha Pruitt: So at the core of that was like, who the hell am I and what it what am I worth anyway?
• 43:18
  Samantha Pruitt: Right.
• 43:19
  Samantha Pruitt: So you get into these patterns of making bad choices, attracting more bad choices, and then they compound, right?
• 43:27
  Samantha Pruitt: So that broken internal It must be me.
• 43:30
  Polly Mertens: It must be my fault.
• 43:30
  Polly Mertens: They did it, of course they would do this, you know.
• 43:33
  Polly Mertens: Yeah, I I made them do it, or yeah.
• 43:35
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah, yeah.
• 43:36
  Samantha Pruitt: Or this is what I deserve.
• 43:37
  Samantha Pruitt: Oh, all that kind of crazy shit.
• 43:40
  Samantha Pruitt: Oh boy, hell no.
• 43:41
  Samantha Pruitt: Yuck, yuck, yuck, yuck.
• 43:42
  Samantha Pruitt: Um, and that's of course a cycle of self-abuse, which we already talked about.
• 43:46
  Samantha Pruitt: So what are the lessons and learnings from that little can of whoop ass?
• 43:51
  Polly Mertens: Well, the only thing I just wanted to like layer in there as we were talking about Kristen Neff and the self-compassion to self-kindness, is like when I was talking about you and your races and stuff like that, looks like punishment and you're whatever.
• 44:01
  Polly Mertens: And it's like, so self-compassion is a state of kindness to oneself.
• 44:06
  Polly Mertens: And so I just want to say that, and like just saying that makes me happy.
• 44:09
  Polly Mertens: Like, you know, as a as a former eating disorder person and who spent many years of not being kind to herself and mentally, physically, all of that.
• 44:18
  Polly Mertens: Um Um the idea of stepping into self-compassion was like so refreshing.
• 44:26
  Polly Mertens: It's like, wow, you can actually like forgive yourself and like have compassion and just like the holding of yourself, you know?
• 44:33
  Polly Mertens: It's such a sweet word and it's such a sweet notion.
• 44:36
  Polly Mertens: Like, I don't know, Kristen Neff's work around so I did a whole series, this was maybe like 10 years ago on all the selves.
• 44:42
  Polly Mertens: Like I studied self-compassion, self-trust, self-forgetting, all this stuff.
• 44:46
  Polly Mertens: And I did all these deep dives into it.
• 44:48
  Polly Mertens: And it was like, they're so sweet when we really honor what all of that turn towards ourselves can do in terms of personal transformation.
• 44:57
  Polly Mertens: I would say compassion is one of the yummiest, softest places to start because I think most people understand and can um create kindness to others, whether it's a flower, a baby, nature, yes, and forgiveness of things before themselves also.
• 45:16
  Polly Mertens: And it's like you have that capacity and it's and you know, like you inherently know how to just love and be kind and want good things for people, right?
• 45:25
  Polly Mertens: Thanks, you know, whatever.
• 45:27
  Polly Mertens: Um, and it's like, hey, over here, over here, you.
• 45:31
  Polly Mertens: Yeah, right.
• 45:32
  Polly Mertens: Um, it's actually it's a sweet one, so I just wanted to double-click on that for a minute.
• 45:38
  Samantha Pruitt: I wrote down a few of my own thoughts.
• 45:40
  Samantha Pruitt: We need to show mercy on our past selves.
• 45:43
  Samantha Pruitt: Oh, yeah.
• 45:44
  Samantha Pruitt: I mean, hello.
• 45:45
  Samantha Pruitt: Oh no, shows uh well, even what I did yesterday.
• 45:49
  Samantha Pruitt: I'm sure I fucked up all kinds of things.
• 45:50
  Samantha Pruitt: I don't know.
• 45:52
  Polly Mertens: I mean, I I was giving it a try.
• 45:54
  Polly Mertens: I was showing up to things, doing the best I could at the moment.
• 45:56
  Polly Mertens: I don't really know that it was that great based on what I had to offer yesterday.
• 46:03
  Polly Mertens: That's what I did.
• 46:04
  Polly Mertens: Okay, that's all today.
• 46:06
  Samantha Pruitt: Thank you.
• 46:07
  Samantha Pruitt: Good night.
• 46:08
  Samantha Pruitt: Exactly.
• 46:09
  Samantha Pruitt: Hopefully, I'm doing a little bit better today, but am I?
• 46:11
  Samantha Pruitt: I mean, exactly.
• 46:13
  Samantha Pruitt: Like, you know, all things change, all things are in permanent, impermanence.
• 46:18
  Samantha Pruitt: Okay, like the foundational Buddhist truth, all things are impermanent, right?
• 46:22
  Samantha Pruitt: Okay, everything is always changing 24-7, all things.
• 46:27
  Samantha Pruitt: Okay, that's just the nature of the life, including me.
• 46:32
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah, you know, an hour ago, I was laying on my chair like a slob after my workout.
• 46:38
  Samantha Pruitt: I was just all oh, I told you I totally bonked.
• 46:40
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah, I had no energy.
• 46:42
  Samantha Pruitt: I was like, we're gonna have a podcast, we're gonna talk about.
• 46:45
  Samantha Pruitt: I mean, I just was like on another planet, and an hour later, I'm fine, I'm great.
• 46:50
  Samantha Pruitt: You know, look at that.
• 46:53
  Samantha Pruitt: But like all things are always changing, and be so open to that because there's so much freedom in that.
• 47:00
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah, jeez.
• 47:01
  Samantha Pruitt: I mean, that is so liberating to me to think that hey, the next minute it can all be different yet again.
• 47:08
  Samantha Pruitt: Yes, that's a little bit scary sometimes, but it's so incredibly empowering.
• 47:14
  Polly Mertens: You know?
• 47:14
  Polly Mertens: And I'd say that kind of goes back to as we started this that the idea of the energy baggage or the anchor, you know.
• 47:21
  Polly Mertens: And so if we have, you know, we're not forgiving ourselves or just holding on to, you know, like yesterday and we're just ruminating on it.
• 47:26
  Polly Mertens: It's like, okay, just pick up that weight and just carry it around through the day.
• 47:30
  Polly Mertens: How's that working for you?
• 47:31
  Polly Mertens: Like, can't go into the meeting.
• 47:33
  Polly Mertens: I like CrossFit where we gotta grab those big bags and walk around and put it on your shoulder and yeah, that workout, leave it at the gym.
• 47:41
  Polly Mertens: All right, on you go, you know, take the growth, drop the weights at the gym, people.
• 47:45
  Polly Mertens: Leave them in the gym.
• 47:47
  Polly Mertens: Yes, yes, be your best self, beautiful self, sprinkle that pixie dust out there, go forth.
• 47:52
  Polly Mertens: Yes.
• 47:53
  Samantha Pruitt: All right, I got what else?
• 47:54
  Samantha Pruitt: Uh yeah, we're simply doing our best with the tools we have at the time.
• 47:58
  Samantha Pruitt: Hello, that's just like intellectually, we should all recognize that that's a real thing, okay?
• 48:04
  Samantha Pruitt: And as we know better, we can do better.
• 48:07
  Polly Mertens: And we are we we're imperfect human beings on this planet, and we're gonna F it up sometimes.
• 48:11
  Polly Mertens: And I think it's just about cleaning it up.
• 48:14
  Polly Mertens: You know, when I was telling you about this scenario this past week where somebody's like, hey, you did this and this this is my the impact over here.
• 48:20
  Polly Mertens: And I was like, wow, I didn't even okay.
• 48:22
  Polly Mertens: And then and then he was like, I think you should do this.
• 48:24
  Polly Mertens: And I was like, okay, you know, and it it wasn't like against my morals or something.
• 48:30
  Polly Mertens: I was like, well, if that would make you feel better, sure.
• 48:32
  Polly Mertens: Like I still couldn't see it.
• 48:33
  Polly Mertens: I was like, wow, that I was like, absolutely, yep, I will say that.
• 48:38
  Polly Mertens: Yep, I will call that person and clean that up.
• 48:40
  Polly Mertens: You got it, you know, and so it's like just get into it, like get on it, get over it, move on.
• 48:47
  Samantha Pruitt: Like the the Well you were able to do that without making right and wrong, but I'm right, and you're wrong, and blah, blah, blah, and all these things.
• 48:54
  Samantha Pruitt: You're just like, okay, whatever, like, cool.
• 48:57
  Samantha Pruitt: I at least I have the knowledge and communication, and now I can do it differently.
• 49:01
  Polly Mertens: Yeah, and definitely, you know, I have definitely that's a light situation, you know.
• 49:05
  Polly Mertens: We talked about the severity and stuff.
• 49:06
  Polly Mertens: So I have definitely had times when I knew and I needed to own something, right?
• 49:10
  Polly Mertens: And so it's heavier and harder, you know, and like, yeah, there's like a bigger impact.
• 49:17
  Polly Mertens: Like he was like, Oh, yeah, there's an impact because of it, and it wasn't like grade 10, you know, blow up, you know, time bomb in his life or something like that.
• 49:24
  Polly Mertens: But, you know, especially in intimate relationships, we can fuck those up pretty good, you know, and it's like, all right, yeah, clean it up.
• 49:31
  Polly Mertens: And I I know when those need to happen too, right?
• 49:35
  Polly Mertens: And like I can't tell you in last year's communication course one of the things that I saw, and this guy, but we he and I that I said something, I was helping him with somebody else that he was having.
• 49:47
  Polly Mertens: There was like this triangle, like I said this, and he was like, Oh, that made this, whatever.
• 49:50
  Polly Mertens: It's hard to explain.
• 49:51
  Polly Mertens: But and I said, Well, you know, I think there's a conversation over there too, you know.
• 49:56
  Polly Mertens: And he was just texting with that person.
• 49:58
  Polly Mertens: I said, Yeah, but you know, and we learned so much in being in communication.
• 50:02
  Polly Mertens: So he was texting with me, and I was like, Well, hello, let's get on the phone, you know, like let's talk about this, clear this up.
• 50:09
  Polly Mertens: This is not a text moment, right?
• 50:11
  Polly Mertens: And and he's like, Wow, I I'm so grateful that we talked because I wasn't misinterpreting it.
• 50:17
  Polly Mertens: I was like, Yep, I was like, love and affinity, brother.
• 50:20
  Polly Mertens: That's all I got for you.
• 50:21
  Polly Mertens: That's all I got for you.
• 50:22
  Polly Mertens: There's nothing over here, it's all good, right?
• 50:24
  Polly Mertens: And I said, Go clean it up over there too.
• 50:26
  Polly Mertens: Like, love and affinity flowing, love and affinity flowing.
• 50:30
  Samantha Pruitt: So people need to have love and affinity with themselves.
• 50:33
  Samantha Pruitt: And I know I'm slightly obsessed with this whole love letter concept I've been talking about all year, but like write yourself a freaking love letter.
• 50:39
  Samantha Pruitt: And I actually wrote a couple paragraphs um very quickly because they just like flow out of me now.
• 50:44
  Samantha Pruitt: And I'm always writing to dear sister Sam or little sister Sam or whatever.
• 50:49
  Samantha Pruitt: I think of myself as like the younger sister when I speak to myself with that open love and compassion, you know, like how would I say this if it were my little sister, that kind of thing.
• 50:58
  Samantha Pruitt: Um, but people can do it however the hell they want to do it, but you need to be having conversations with yourself.
• 51:04
  Samantha Pruitt: So if you're gonna do them on paper, if you're gonna do them with another to express, but it's a lot more intimate to and you know, usually easier to have these conversations with yourself, with yourself, you know, yeah, with no judgment.
• 51:22
  Samantha Pruitt: Write that shit down and burn it, throw it away, keep it, do whatever you want to do.
• 51:26
  Polly Mertens: But try it out, yeah, scream it out, whatever, you know.
• 51:29
  Polly Mertens: Like I had a big one, I was on a run and I had this moment.
• 51:32
  Polly Mertens: I was like, oh dang, you know, and I for I was forgiving myself and I had this big cry moment.
• 51:37
  Polly Mertens: I just like paused on the trail and just like cried for the not taking good care of myself in those moments, you know, not standing up for myself.
• 51:45
  Samantha Pruitt: I was like, ah, and it was like, ah, right, you know, just those are the best when Mother Nature just opens up for you like that, because you I know you were outside somewhere, you weren't on a treadmill at the gym with 10 people around you, um, and all of a sudden it's like pop! Yeah, and Mother Nature goes, Come here, I got that.
• 52:05
  Samantha Pruitt: Totally, I got that, I got that.
• 52:07
  Polly Mertens: Super present how the movement created it and the thinking and what I was listening to right before that, and just like it was a perfect um moment, you know, and being a little tired from running, you know, it's like I got nothing.
• 52:19
  Polly Mertens: And then it was like, oh, like forgive, right?
• 52:22
  Polly Mertens: It was beautiful, beautiful.
• 52:24
  Polly Mertens: And like you said, like it can be a memo, it can be a letter to somebody, it can be a phone call, it can be a text.
• 52:29
  Polly Mertens: Just talking to yourself, you know, whatever format works for you.
• 52:32
  Polly Mertens: Mine was just a blurt.
• 52:35
  Samantha Pruitt: Blur.
• 52:36
  Samantha Pruitt: Burp.
• 52:37
  Samantha Pruitt: That's awesome.
• 52:38
  Samantha Pruitt: That's awesome.
• 52:39
  Samantha Pruitt: Well, we need to wrap it up.
• 52:40
  Samantha Pruitt: You got a one thing?
• 52:41
  Samantha Pruitt: You want my one one thing?
• 52:43
  Polly Mertens: Yeah, give me your one thing first.
• 52:46
  Samantha Pruitt: I want people to ask themselves a simple question.
• 52:50
  Samantha Pruitt: It's not simple.
• 52:51
  Samantha Pruitt: You know when I say that, it's not simple at all, right?
• 52:53
  Samantha Pruitt: I wish it were simple.
• 52:57
  Samantha Pruitt: Do you deserve?
• 53:00
  Samantha Pruitt: This is me asking myself or you asking yourself.
• 53:04
  Samantha Pruitt: So this is around self-forgiveness.
• 53:05
  Samantha Pruitt: Do you deserve health, happiness, peace, love, self-compassion.
• 53:15
  Samantha Pruitt: Do you deserve these things?
• 53:17
  Samantha Pruitt: Because if you do, you deserve forgiveness.
• 53:20
  Samantha Pruitt: And if you said no, you better call me.
• 53:24
  Polly Mertens: ASAP.
• 53:25
  Polly Mertens: Stop listening.
• 53:27
  Polly Mertens: No, we we won't have you over there beating yourself up.
• 53:30
  Polly Mertens: I would say mine is um we didn't go much into the idea of peace and how I would say lack of forgiveness is lack of peace, you know, like a state of peace.
• 53:43
  Polly Mertens: Um, so I would say, what is it costing you, or what is the payoff you're giving by not forgiving yourself or someone else?
• 53:52
  Polly Mertens: And is it worth it?
• 53:53
  Polly Mertens: Right?
• 53:54
  Polly Mertens: Like, like really looking at, is it worth that?
• 53:57
  Polly Mertens: And or do you recognize that guess what?
• 53:59
  Polly Mertens: You're the one that's in that's got the key and is in the suffering sack, you know, so set yourself free.
• 54:04
  Polly Mertens: So I would say, you know, what's the value of peace to you?
• 54:07
  Polly Mertens: You know, and I I one of the things I feel like with this year to live that we've been studying is I ain't got time for all the like all the baggage, like, whoop, gotta go, you know, moving on, dropping baggage, you know, like nope, that emotion doesn't serve me.
• 54:19
  Polly Mertens: Okay, next, right?
• 54:20
  Polly Mertens: You know, just like when that gal told me that scenario, I was like, oh, you see that and that bothers you?
• 54:24
  Polly Mertens: Okay, well, let's let's clean it up because we have places to go, you know, like let's keep moving, let's not hang out here and just no spinning, can't change the past, whatever.
• 54:32
  Polly Mertens: Like life is now and now and now, and if there's something from, like you said, decades ago, like what's that costing you in the now?
• 54:41
  Polly Mertens: So like settle up and like let's go.
• 54:45
  Polly Mertens: Settle up.
• 54:46
  Polly Mertens: That's a good one.
• 54:47
  Polly Mertens: All right, what do we want to finally close with with our secret sauce?
• 54:51
  Polly Mertens: Are we closing?
• 54:52
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah, how your life feels, people.
• 54:55
  Polly Mertens: How your life feels is more important than how it looks.
• 54:57
  Polly Mertens: You know that by now.
• 54:59
  Polly Mertens: Yes, and every day is your opportunity to find your awesome self.