Latest / Brian Thomas / AFP - Greg Landsman and House Bill 503

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AFP - Greg Landsman and House Bill 503 · Brian Thomas

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  Speaker 1: Our power coming up the beginning at eight h five
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  Speaker 1: so nobody knows that more than Donovan and Neil. Welcome back,
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  Speaker 1: my friend. It's always great having you on the program
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  Speaker 1: this time of week, Brian.
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  Speaker 2: Always a pleasure to be with you midweek.
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  Speaker 1: Thanks for having me and I didn't realize that this
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  Speaker 1: double taxation thing was actually going on. My impression has
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  Speaker 1: been has always been and obviously needs to be corrected
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  Speaker 1: that if I work, like here in the city of Cincinnati,
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  Speaker 1: charge you in income tax, but if my local municipality
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  Speaker 1: was also charging a tax, because I would be getting
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  Speaker 1: taxed in both municipalities, that I would be able to
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  Speaker 1: write off or reduce my local level taxation based upon
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  Speaker 1: what I paid in the city. That's kind of normal,
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  Speaker 1: isn't it, Donovan? Or isn't it Why do we need
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  Speaker 1: House Bill five oh three?
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  Speaker 2: Well, it was normal up until it seems like recent
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  Speaker 2: last couple of years, maybe a couple months, what we're finding, right, Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: you're right, you work in a city. The norm here
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  Speaker 2: in Ohio has been at the city you work in
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  Speaker 2: is the place where you pay your income tax, right,
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  Speaker 2: and then the community you live in or if you
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  Speaker 2: also live in a city, they oftentimes will give you
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  Speaker 2: a reciprocal credit, and most of the time those would
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  Speaker 2: even out.
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  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 2: So if it was a two percent income tax and
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  Speaker 2: the time you worked in and a two percent in
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  Speaker 2: the time you lived in, you'd only paid two percent
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  Speaker 2: of your income for municipal services. But cities were not
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  Speaker 2: bound to that, and so what they found the bill
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  Speaker 2: sponsors Rome or Heidi Workmen have found is that they
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  Speaker 2: have constituents reaching out saying that their taxes are going up,
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  Speaker 2: and their cities, their councils are voting to increase. Remove
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  Speaker 2: that reciprocity, I should say, And so you're finding a
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  Speaker 2: situation where Ohioans who work in one town live in
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  Speaker 2: another are being double taxed. To the point, Brian, because
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  Speaker 2: we're now a flat tax state at two point seventy
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  Speaker 2: five percent, people are paying more in local municipal income
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  Speaker 2: taxes than they are to the state of Ohio for services.
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  Speaker 2: It's ludicrous, and House both five H three stops that practice.
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  Speaker 1: Well.
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  Speaker 2: Puts the brakes on it.
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  Speaker 1: Puts the brakes on it. We'll talk about the details
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  Speaker 1: in that in just a minute. But did this spring
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  Speaker 1: from COVID. I know, we had a real problem with
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  Speaker 1: the City of Cincinnati. They continue to withhold taxes from
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  Speaker 1: folks who were working at home, working at home not
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  Speaker 1: within the City of Cincinnati limits, which meant under the
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  Speaker 1: prior structure, or at least I mean even the then
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  Speaker 1: existing structure, that the city was not allowed to collect
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  Speaker 1: those taxes even though it continued to do so while
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  Speaker 1: people were working at home. Problem for me, I mean
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  Speaker 1: ethically I thought that was wrong, But I don't know
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  Speaker 1: whether the city ultimately had to refund the taxes they
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  Speaker 1: took out, but that was inconsistent with with that law.
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  Speaker 1: Did did municipalities change this taxation structure to the point
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  Speaker 1: where we need House fill five o three to deal
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  Speaker 1: with it because of that type of situation with COVID?
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  Speaker 2: Well, I think what I've understood from reading from bill
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  Speaker 2: sponsor or opponents of this legislation is that cities are
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  Speaker 2: feeling the pinch. They feel like they need more funds,
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  Speaker 2: and they are, you know, they're using this tactic as
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  Speaker 2: a way to raise tack, to collect more tax revenue
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  Speaker 2: without having to go to the voters and ask for it.
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  Speaker 2: So I think that's the largest drivers They're saying, where
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  Speaker 2: can we get more money from our citizens? Well, we're
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  Speaker 2: gonna we're gonna remove this reciprocity credit so that we
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  Speaker 2: can you know, get that get those moneys from them.
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  Speaker 1: There's never enough, is there, Donovan? There's just never never enough? Well, pause,
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  Speaker 1: we'll bring back, bring back Donovan talk about the details
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  Speaker 1: on this and which I think, as my understand the
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  Speaker 1: House bill, it'll give you a say and whether or
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  Speaker 1: not you want that to happen. Question, We do vote
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  Speaker 1: for a higher income tax k SE detalk station Brian
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  Speaker 1: Thomas with Americans for Prosperities, Donald and Hil segment. We
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  Speaker 1: do every week. They are really working hard for Ohio.
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  Speaker 1: And the bottom line is the bottom line on this one.
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  Speaker 1: HB five oh three. If a city wants a double
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  Speaker 1: tax you, they got to ask you first. And this
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  Speaker 1: of course springs from the reality of it. And I
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  Speaker 1: did not realize and according to your notes, and I
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  Speaker 1: know AFP is always right on these things. Ohio has
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  Speaker 1: some of the highest municipal income tax rates in the
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  Speaker 1: entire country, the sixth most, sixth most local taxing jurisdictions,
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  Speaker 1: and of course, eliminating reciprocity, meaning your local jurisdiction can
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  Speaker 1: charge you income tax along with the city where you work.
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  Speaker 1: That's going to really increase your taxes. And of course
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  Speaker 1: that's happening to people right now. Now. House Bill five
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  Speaker 1: oh three provides some relief on this. Now is this
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  Speaker 1: unusual requiring voter approval for reciprocity, because that's what this
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  Speaker 1: calls for if they want to, if they want to
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  Speaker 1: take away reciprocity waivers, and we at least get a
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  Speaker 1: say over it where we live.
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  Speaker 2: Well, I don't think that's necessarily required right now. I'm
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  Speaker 2: sure a city could if they wanted to write be
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  Speaker 2: good governance, put that in front of their voters and
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  Speaker 2: give them the choice. But right now they can do
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  Speaker 2: that unilaterally. This bill would require that they go to
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  Speaker 2: the citizens, as well as give the citizens an ability
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  Speaker 2: to go out circulate a petition and change that reciprocity
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  Speaker 2: rate themselves if their council is unwilling to do so.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, I understand the petition idea. We've seen that quite
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  Speaker 1: a bit lately. But I'm wondering whether there would there
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  Speaker 1: be a legal challenge to this, Like, is this violating
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  Speaker 1: some sort of home rule right that municipalities have to
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  Speaker 1: set their own tax rates? Is this going to be
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  Speaker 1: ultimately challenged in court? I don't know that you necessarily
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  Speaker 1: know that, but I understand how municipalities might find this
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  Speaker 1: to be a rather touchy subject.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not quite sure exactly what the legal challenges
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  Speaker 2: might get presented there, But I think at the end
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  Speaker 2: of the day, right we want to be putting right now,
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  Speaker 2: from property taxes to income taxes, the balance of power
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  Speaker 2: exists with the bureaucrats with the governments, right, and what
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  Speaker 2: bills like this and many of the bills that'll be
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  Speaker 2: passed later today on property tax reform. What these bills
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  Speaker 2: do is put the tax payer, the citizen, back in
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  Speaker 2: the driver's seat of having final stay on their local taxation.
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  Speaker 1: And I think that's the important part here. You said
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  Speaker 1: the property x former bills are going to pass today.
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  Speaker 2: That's hopeful fingers crossed, Brian, I hope I don't jinx it.
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  Speaker 2: But there are four bills that the Senate I've already
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  Speaker 2: been passed out the House, the Senate committee has and
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  Speaker 2: the ideas they've been vetted, They've been heard opponents, proponents,
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  Speaker 2: interested parties alike, and the goal I think we'll see
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  Speaker 2: if it happens this afternoon through one of these marathon session,
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  Speaker 2: they can move these bills to the governor's desk.
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  Speaker 1: What of House Bill five O three in terms of
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  Speaker 1: its passage or in terms of your tea leaf predicting
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  Speaker 1: on whether or not this has the support to pass.
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  Speaker 1: I would imagine that it would enjoy bipartisan support. But
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  Speaker 1: then again, we're talking about the state of Ohio and Columbus.
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  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, municipalities have been tricked. I mean any local
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  Speaker 2: government because we have the sixth most political subdivisions in
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  Speaker 2: the country, right, cities, townships, villages, schools, counties, special districts, Brian,
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  Speaker 2: you name them. They get a slice of your pocketbook
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  Speaker 2: and wallet every month. The likelihood of this passing, I
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  Speaker 2: think is pretty good. We're still early phase. We're going
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  Speaker 2: in as proponents today for the third hearing supporting this legislation.
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  Speaker 2: Chairman Bill Romer is really effective at what he does.
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  Speaker 2: He's why he's somebody AFP has long time supported and
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  Speaker 2: still alongside fights for the taxpayers. We'll see what happens,
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  Speaker 2: but I think this is an important one. It's got
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  Speaker 2: to be pretty universally accepted Ry Brian that if Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: the voters should have the final say on their taxes,
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  Speaker 2: especially at a local level.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's as a matter of fairness as well. I
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  Speaker 1: just when you when you start considering where you might
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  Speaker 1: live and work, I mean, people might factor this into
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  Speaker 1: the equation. If you're going to get tax where you
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  Speaker 1: live and tax where you work, you might gravitate away
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  Speaker 1: from even entering into that possibility.
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  Speaker 2: Well, you know Southwest Ohio better than me, but you
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  Speaker 2: know you could I looked at the rates, you could
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  Speaker 2: live in the city of Norwood. That'd be a reasonable
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  Speaker 2: place to live in southwest Ohio, right, Norwood, all right.
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  Speaker 1: And work in the st It is still somewhat affordable.
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  Speaker 1: I think that's like your next Oakley or you know, which,
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  Speaker 1: which used to be kind of like Norwood in terms
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  Speaker 1: of perception. Now it's more like Hyde Park, which is
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  Speaker 1: a very affluent neighborhood. You know, give it time, all
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  Speaker 1: the neighborhoods, we'll transform into something rather than I've always
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  Speaker 1: had real positive hope for Norwood as one of those
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  Speaker 1: neighborhoods who is just going to continue to be more
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  Speaker 1: and more successful and affluent. But I could have it wrong.
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  Speaker 1: But my point is.
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  Speaker 2: You could live in Norwood, work in Cincinnati, and you're
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  Speaker 2: gonna pay right now three point eight percent. Now, they
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  Speaker 2: may the reciprocity credit in those in Norwood may already
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  Speaker 2: be in place. So I don't want your listeners to
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  Speaker 2: go with pitchforks and torches to city Hall. But if
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  Speaker 2: this bill doesn't pass and the City of Norwood would
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  Speaker 2: remove any reciprocity credits it may or may not provide
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  Speaker 2: right now, you could realistically pay living in that city.
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  Speaker 2: Working in Cincinnati, three point eight percent of your income
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  Speaker 2: just to local municipalities.
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  Speaker 1: Both where you live and work.
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  Speaker 2: That's far less than the two point seven percent you're
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  Speaker 2: going to pay to the state, and h just seems
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  Speaker 2: unreasonable in many ways.
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  Speaker 1: I couldn't agree with you more. Donovan and Neil rarely
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  Speaker 1: have a disagreement with you. Sir, Hey, real quick, I
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  Speaker 1: don't want to put you on the spot. The property
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  Speaker 1: tax reform bills that we're going to see today, let's
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  Speaker 1: assume they pass real quick. What kind of relief is
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  Speaker 1: this going to provide us, Donovan, if if you don't
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  Speaker 1: mind recapping that before we before we part company this morning.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. So, in short, one of the things that's going
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  Speaker 2: to do is provide more local control by empowering these
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  Speaker 2: county budget commissions to look at unnecessary or excessive and
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  Speaker 2: they define what unnecessary and excessive is in the bill,
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  Speaker 2: so that if you have a local political subdivision that's
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  Speaker 2: just pulling too much money in this county budget commission
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  Speaker 2: can be a check and balance on behalf of the
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  Speaker 2: taxpayer to say you don't actually need that new tax revenue,
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  Speaker 2: how about you give it back to your constituents. So
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  Speaker 2: that's a direct relief that folks will receive. The other
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  Speaker 2: piece that I think is key here is the unvoted
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  Speaker 2: tax increases. They're capping those to inflation. And that's where
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  Speaker 2: you see right where property valuations with what twenty thirty
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  Speaker 2: forty percent and the local subdivisions would be able to
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  Speaker 2: enjoy all of that increase in revenue without any vote
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  Speaker 2: by the taxpayer. They're going to cap that to inflation
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  Speaker 2: so that we don't see these massive spikes like we
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  Speaker 2: saw coming out of the COVID years.
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  Speaker 1: Ever, again, it's.
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  Speaker 2: The most significant property tax reform in the last since
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  Speaker 2: the nineteen seventies. And there's another piece where they're going
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  Speaker 2: to believe they will will provide a credit based on
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  Speaker 2: updated valuations, so there's some money that will also go
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  Speaker 2: back into people's pockets. So structurally changing the system as
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  Speaker 2: well as giving some folks some relief across the state of.
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  Speaker 1: Awios steps in the right direction. Obviously an effort because
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  Speaker 1: it's needed, but also in an effort to maybe head
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  Speaker 1: off eradication of property tax a petition that's circulating. They
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  Speaker 1: do need to get ahead of that. Do you expect
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  Speaker 1: more property tax reform between now and sometime before next
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  Speaker 1: year's election. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: I mean this stuff they're doing is pretty significant and
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  Speaker 2: it tackles a lot of the things that the governor
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  Speaker 2: had vetoed. We could have been crazy. Thing is, Brian,
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  Speaker 2: we could have been already had this done back in
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  Speaker 2: the summer.
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  Speaker 1: But here we are.
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  Speaker 2: It's going to get done today, we hope. Well, yeah,
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  Speaker 2: and I think there's going to need to be more
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  Speaker 2: on this issue. I think we'll get through this sort
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  Speaker 2: of see where the opportunities lie. But from municipal tax
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  Speaker 2: collection to property taxes. Our problem at the heart of
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  Speaker 2: this all, Brian, is the amount of government we have
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  Speaker 2: at that local level. It's burdensome, it's holding people back,
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  Speaker 2: and it's robbing our pocketbooks, starving our pocketbooks.
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  Speaker 1: Understand. We had a conversation about that not too long ago.
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  Speaker 1: Within the last week or two, Donald and NEI Americans
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  Speaker 1: for Prosperity Call to Action planned. We need people to
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  Speaker 1: get in touch with their elected officials to tell them
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  Speaker 1: to push forward with HB five thirty or five oh
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  Speaker 1: three rather Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Yep, HB five oh three. Go to Buckeye Blueprint dot
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: com sign up if you want to join us take action.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: You can join a chapter. Will we bring it folks
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: to the Statehouse on issues like this, and we'd love
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: to have your listeners take part in it.
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  Speaker 1: Don Renio, thank you so much for making it easy
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  Speaker 1: for our listeners to get engaged and involved in keeping
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  Speaker 1: us up to speed on what's going on legislatively and Columbus.
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  Speaker 1: I appreciate all that. I appreciate you coming on the
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  Speaker 1: show every week. I'll look forward to next week with
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  Speaker 1: another update.