Latest / NO FILTER / Episode 10_ The Narc_s Tale(M4A_128K)

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Episode 10_ The Narc_s Tale(M4A_128K) · NO FILTER

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: In May of nineteen ninety seven, a police officer came
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: by Glenn Clark's house with a warrant for his son's arrest.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Lee was being charged with murder and conspiracy to commit murder.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: When Lee called home later that day, Glenn told him
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: what had happened, and they decided to go to the
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: police station to figure out what was going on.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: I said, I'm gonna take in enough. I said, it
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: ain't gonna be nothing to this. I said, I don't
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: know what they're doing, but you know, and.
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: You felt like you were doing the right.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: Thing at man, let me tell you something. And I
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: tell everybody right here, right now. If my boy killed
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: that boy, he needed to be where he is, you
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: do it, you gotta put you gotta pay of tie.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: But he didn't do it.
• 0:53
  Speaker 4: That car ride with Lee to the to the jail,
• 0:56
  Speaker 4: what was that like? Was he saying, no, don't take
• 0:59
  Speaker 4: me less.
• 0:59
  Speaker 5: No, No, he he wasn't like that. You know, he
• 1:03
  Speaker 5: was kind of like me.
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: You know, he wanted to kind of go and find
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: out what's that's all about because he didn't know, and
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: he wouldn't upset or anything like that.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: Glenn was confused by the warrant to Lisa, rast but
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: not alarmed.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: I kind of figured that what they would do was
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: take him in and talk to him, and then eventually
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: he had come out and then and maybe say Hey,
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: they saying this and they saying that.
• 1:27
  Speaker 5: That didn't happen.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: Glenn dropped his son off at the police station and
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: waited for him to come back out again. But Lee
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: didn't come back out again, and twenty five years later,
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: Glenn's still waiting for him to come home.
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: When I went in there and they took him in,
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: I mean after that, hey, I never saw him outside
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: his walk again.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: Hey. My name is Susan Simpson. I'm an attorney and
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: podcaster and previously I hosted the Undisclosed podcast.
• 2:00
  Speaker 4: Hi, I'm just in to Davis, and I'm a true
• 2:03
  Speaker 4: crime TV producer. Last year, Susan and I decided to
• 2:07
  Speaker 4: team up and reinvestigate the murder of Brian Bowen. Along
• 2:11
  Speaker 4: with Kevin Fitzpatrick, president of Red Marble Media, we decided
• 2:14
  Speaker 4: to launch Proof. You can listen to Proof like you
• 2:18
  Speaker 4: would any podcast, and you can follow us everywhere with
• 2:21
  Speaker 4: the handle at proofcrime pod and on our website proofcrimepod
• 2:25
  Speaker 4: dot com. Thanks for listening. And welcome to proof. Let's
• 2:43
  Speaker 4: talk about the trial for a moment. So did Lee
• 2:46
  Speaker 4: have a public defender?
• 2:48
  Speaker 5: Rick?
• 2:49
  Speaker 6: You hired Rex?
• 2:50
  Speaker 5: I don't know if we offer married with Bobbi Lee Cook.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: I went to him talk with him, but I didn't
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: have deep enough pockets for Bobbi Lee Cook. He wanted
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: about forty grand or better back then, and I couldn't
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: afford him.
• 3:07
  Speaker 4: Bobby Lee Cook was probably the most famous defense attorney
• 3:11
  Speaker 4: in Georgia, but he came with the price tag that
• 3:13
  Speaker 4: Glenn couldn't afford. Instead, he hired another attorney that worked
• 3:18
  Speaker 4: at Bobby Lee Cook's firm, Rex Abernafie.
• 3:22
  Speaker 5: Rex worked for Bobby Lee Cook.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: So I figured, and I forget exactly what I paid Rex.
• 3:30
  Speaker 5: I don't know. It was three or five grand, whatever
• 3:34
  Speaker 5: it was.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: And that's the reason I chose chose Rex because I
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: could afford him. But I'll be honest with you, daring
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: the trial, I thought Rex was doing pretty good, and
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: it would seem like when he did get on kind
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: of a roll or something, Judge would just shut him
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: down and just shut him down.
• 4:00
  Speaker 4: During his trial, Lee had been impressed with Rex Abernathy too.
• 4:05
  Speaker 4: He thought things were going pretty well despite the consistently
• 4:08
  Speaker 4: unfavorable rulings from the judge. Though Lee hadn't understood a
• 4:12
  Speaker 4: lot of things that had happened in that courtroom.
• 4:17
  Speaker 7: Break didn't even tell me much in the way of
• 4:20
  Speaker 7: the trial. Is that I'll hate your killing mellors. Oh yeah,
• 4:23
  Speaker 7: we're gonna bleed this case. Right here, We're gonna bleed
• 4:25
  Speaker 7: this case. That's the only thing you can't repeating to
• 4:28
  Speaker 7: me is you're gonna bleed the case.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: Do you say why?
• 4:30
  Speaker 7: Yeah? Hey, they told me straight up. He said, actually
• 4:33
  Speaker 7: right here, and he said, he said, I know you
• 4:35
  Speaker 7: didn't do this. We're gonna bleed this That's what he's
• 4:36
  Speaker 7: telling me. What it'll work out like it.
• 4:41
  Speaker 4: At the time, Lee had thought his attorney was doing
• 4:43
  Speaker 4: a good job. But he's no longer so confident of that.
• 4:47
  Speaker 7: I don't think ev Natty did everything he could have did.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: Your dad liked him. Your dad thought that he did
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: a good job and tried hard.
• 4:55
  Speaker 7: Well, my dad, God bless my daddy's heart. Jusian. But
• 4:59
  Speaker 7: my he's a hall lot made. He's old country boy,
• 5:02
  Speaker 7: and he had to see what they're all about, what
• 5:04
  Speaker 7: they're really like. And I've had a lot of time
• 5:06
  Speaker 7: to think about it, more time than my Diddy has,
• 5:08
  Speaker 7: because that's all I got is time on my hands,
• 5:10
  Speaker 7: and I'll sit back and I looked at it, and
• 5:12
  Speaker 7: on the surface, just looking at it, you think, oh, yeah,
• 5:15
  Speaker 7: Race did a Jamo job. But when you really get
• 5:17
  Speaker 7: thinking about it, I'm get it, really do a Jamo job.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: At trial, Rex SimAnt actually called just three witnesses to
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: testify and Lee's defense. One of them was doctor Harvey Howell,
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: the medical examiner who testified that Brian have been killed
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: by a contact shot. The remaining two witnesses were both
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: called in to testify about where Lee had been on
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: the night of the shooting.
• 5:40
  Speaker 7: I'd appointed in my apartment that night with ten people there,
• 5:44
  Speaker 7: and know that I was there all night. That's what
• 5:46
  Speaker 7: really screws me up right there. How in the hell
• 5:49
  Speaker 7: can you put me? It's being over there at Bryan's
• 5:52
  Speaker 7: house when I've got all these people didn't know of
• 5:55
  Speaker 7: what over there?
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: Do they testify?
• 5:58
  Speaker 7: Two of them?
• 5:58
  Speaker 5: Did?
• 6:00
  Speaker 7: Pray and his mom both?
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: Why didn't the others testify?
• 6:06
  Speaker 7: Raybernetti said he didn't.
• 6:07
  Speaker 4: Philip's testary, Lee had plenty of alibi witnesses to choose
• 6:12
  Speaker 4: from but some of them, like his mother, his brother,
• 6:15
  Speaker 4: and his girlfriend, wouldn't have done him much good at trial.
• 6:19
  Speaker 4: They would have been too easy to impeach. The prosecution
• 6:23
  Speaker 4: could just argue that they were lying to help him out.
• 6:26
  Speaker 4: So in the end, Rex Abernathy chose to call just
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: two of Lee's alibi witnesses, Doug Bray, who had been
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: at the party with his twin brother Don, and Doug
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: and Don's mother, Sharie, who.
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: Had dropped them both off at least place that night.
• 6:42
  Speaker 8: Did they testify that he was at the party? Yeah,
• 6:45
  Speaker 8: but so there was testimony heard in.
• 6:47
  Speaker 7: Court that he was elsewhere.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there was. I mean you wouldn't You wouldn't want
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: to call everyone in the party. That's not a good strategy, no,
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, choosing the mom is a best choice because
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: better than the teenage boys that were at the party.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: So the mom who dropped the kids off and saw
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: him there is a probably the choice Ida made too.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: I mean it's hard too, though, because they're dumb teenage boys.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: I mean against a detective, they're not going to seem
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: incredible and the jury's going to dismiss them.
• 7:15
  Speaker 4: Doug Bray testified that he'd seen Lee at his apartment
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: that night.
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: But on cross the prosecutor also.
• 7:22
  Speaker 4: Got him to admit that he had smoked about three
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: or four five joints that night, which likely did nothing to.
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: Bolster his credibility with the jury.
• 7:32
  Speaker 4: It probably didn't help either when the prosecutor suggested it
• 7:35
  Speaker 4: without evidence, that Doug Bray was another member of the
• 7:38
  Speaker 4: Freed Bird gang. But Doug's mom, Charie, likely made for
• 7:42
  Speaker 4: a more credible witness. She testified that when she dropped
• 7:46
  Speaker 4: Doug and down off at Lee's place that night, she'd
• 7:49
  Speaker 4: seen Lee standing there out on the porch.
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: He was there in that day.
• 7:54
  Speaker 9: I do remember that.
• 7:55
  Speaker 6: If I can't remember not nails, I remember he was there.
• 7:57
  Speaker 6: I know he was there when we.
• 7:58
  Speaker 10: Actually we got there to meet Jamie.
• 8:01
  Speaker 5: Lee come out the front door and so.
• 8:05
  Speaker 9: And that's your call.
• 8:06
  Speaker 11: Lee was at Normal that night, Yes, normal self.
• 8:10
  Speaker 4: That's Cherie and her son Don. It was Don's brother
• 8:14
  Speaker 4: Doug who had testified at trial, but Don had been
• 8:17
  Speaker 4: there too. Don told us that he certain Lee was
• 8:21
  Speaker 4: at the party, and he's certain it was the night
• 8:23
  Speaker 4: Brian was shot because the next morning they had gotten
• 8:26
  Speaker 4: the awful news.
• 8:30
  Speaker 10: Well, didn't hear about that to him?
• 8:32
  Speaker 11: Next day.
• 8:33
  Speaker 9: What'd you think when you found out?
• 8:36
  Speaker 10: I mean it shot. Brian was a close friend of
• 8:39
  Speaker 10: old Oars. We all hung together all the time. We
• 8:41
  Speaker 10: were just at Brian's house, not like a day or
• 8:44
  Speaker 10: so before, all of us hanging out.
• 8:47
  Speaker 5: Not evil.
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: That was the entirety of the case in chief put
• 8:53
  Speaker 4: on by Lee Clark's attorney. But even though Lee and
• 8:56
  Speaker 4: Kine were tried at the same time, Kin had his
• 8:59
  Speaker 4: own attorney, and when it was time to present his defense,
• 9:03
  Speaker 4: he called three witnesses of his own. For obvious reasons,
• 9:08
  Speaker 4: Caine did not call any alibi witnesses. There's no dispute
• 9:12
  Speaker 4: that he was there when the shooting happened. Instead, Caine's
• 9:16
  Speaker 4: defense focused on refuting the testimony of Angela Bruce. Angela
• 9:22
  Speaker 4: was the prosecution witness who testified that four months after
• 9:25
  Speaker 4: the shooting, Kine's uncle had brought Cain and Lee to
• 9:28
  Speaker 4: a party at her trailer, and while there, the two
• 9:32
  Speaker 4: boys had confessed to killing Brian. At trial, Caine's attorney
• 9:37
  Speaker 4: called Cain's uncle Phil's story to testify that this never happened.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: So Larry Barkley, Kin's attorney called you and a trial
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: he asked you about the party, and you said that
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: you went over very quick. It's like, jeez, it's only
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: two pages of direct and it says you get there
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: around midnight. He saw Angela Bruce. He say, Smitty and
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: my nephew Kine, you were there an hour or so
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: hour and a half at the party, and that you
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: never heard Cain or Josh say anything about the killing
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: Brian Bowling. No, and you did not see Lee Clark there.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: To me, calling Phil's story seems like an obvious mistake
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: for the defense. If anything, Phil just corroborates the prosecution's case.
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: He confirms that there really had been a party Angela
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: Bruce's trailer, and that Cain really had been there. But
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: Phil's story was not the only attendee at this party.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: In fact, according to Angela, there were fifteen to twenty
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: people there in all, and Angela Bruce actually named four
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: people who were sitting right there at the kitchen table
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: when Lee and Kane supposedly confessed a murder.
• 10:49
  Speaker 9: Why didn't your at party's try and talk to the
• 10:50
  Speaker 9: other partygoer.
• 10:51
  Speaker 7: I'm never honest. I've never honest of that neither, I'm
• 10:54
  Speaker 7: always wondered himself. I never understood why they made trying
• 10:57
  Speaker 7: to get the money else on the party.
• 10:58
  Speaker 9: You know someone aside from Phil's story, your uncle who
• 11:02
  Speaker 9: the jury's going to assume life for you now, I
• 11:08
  Speaker 9: mean a job.
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: The second witness Kine's attorney called was Caprice. She'd actually
• 11:19
  Speaker 4: been called to testify as part of the prosecution's case,
• 11:22
  Speaker 4: but Barkley brought her back to the witness stand again
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: to refute Angela Bruce's claim that on the night of
• 11:28
  Speaker 4: the party, she'd driven up to the trailer to pick
• 11:30
  Speaker 4: up Lee and Kin.
• 11:33
  Speaker 12: When I was in court that was asking me about you.
• 11:37
  Speaker 12: I went supposedly went to somewhere with somebody and peeped
• 11:41
  Speaker 12: up Josh and something.
• 11:44
  Speaker 5: I don't know.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: Do you know the name Angela Bruce? Do you know
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: the mckenry trailer park.
• 11:50
  Speaker 9: Maybe that's the lady.
• 11:52
  Speaker 12: Maybe that's the lady that I'm talking about.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: She got the wayey looking at her. Angela Bruce was
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: from mckenary trailer Park, So if.
• 11:58
  Speaker 12: That's I don't know, if that's where they tried to
• 12:01
  Speaker 12: say I went. I never said a lady until that day.
• 12:06
  Speaker 4: Caprice told us that until that day she had never
• 12:10
  Speaker 4: seen Lee Clark before either.
• 12:12
  Speaker 12: And I remember sitting there and then asking me questions
• 12:15
  Speaker 12: and me having to look at Josh and Lee. Lee
• 12:21
  Speaker 12: just glared at me like, you know, like miliitious stuff,
• 12:25
  Speaker 12: like he wanted to hurt me or something, you know,
• 12:27
  Speaker 12: just for what I was saying.
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: And he just he just stared.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: At me like I was like, oh, you know.
• 12:32
  Speaker 12: And Josh would look up at me and then look
• 12:35
  Speaker 12: down and just cry like he was the only one upset.
• 12:39
  Speaker 12: And Lee sat there like he didn't bother him at all,
• 12:42
  Speaker 12: really like nothing, He wasn't bothered by any of it,
• 12:45
  Speaker 12: Like he had no remorse for it.
• 12:47
  Speaker 8: No.
• 12:48
  Speaker 5: Nothing.
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: This is something we heard from some of the jurors
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: we spoke to as well.
• 12:54
  Speaker 6: Well.
• 12:55
  Speaker 4: Keen's story had been a lnky crying mess. Lee Clark
• 12:59
  Speaker 4: had been the opposite. H He hadn't seemed remorseful at all.
• 13:03
  Speaker 9: Now, a lot of people have mentioned Lee's eyes.
• 13:07
  Speaker 4: They all talk about, well a lot, You're right. They
• 13:10
  Speaker 4: all mentioned his like intense, intense.
• 13:13
  Speaker 9: I don't know what, like just to stare some beady eyes.
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: But they all talk about how when they're testifying, you know,
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: Kane is crying and.
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: I haven't heard that.
• 13:27
  Speaker 4: Later, Susan and I talked to Lee about our interview
• 13:30
  Speaker 4: with Caprice.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: She she says the same thing that she said. She's
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: never changed her story, but she did tell us but
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: she remembers looking at you and that she thought you
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: were what you say.
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: She said, you just had like a really hard, angry
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: look on your face and almost staring at her like
• 13:50
  Speaker 4: a threatening.
• 13:52
  Speaker 7: That stuff all the time when you when you face
• 13:55
  Speaker 7: to face, Susan, you're gonna say it because I've got it.
• 13:57
  Speaker 7: Look at it on my face. I don't. I don't
• 14:00
  Speaker 7: do it intentionally.
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: It's just there resting, gotch face, resting bitch face.
• 14:06
  Speaker 7: I've got that look. I'm serious. People walk up to
• 14:09
  Speaker 7: all the time like, man, a you okay? I said,
• 14:11
  Speaker 7: I'm fine, dude, what's up? Man? You're already looking crazy? Man?
• 14:15
  Speaker 7: I said, that's play for you, buddy, I'm not telling
• 14:17
  Speaker 7: football time. I followed, what got make your victory?
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: Well, apparently I am in impression on Caprice because she
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: I mean, she said that Josh was crying and just
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: looked distraught, whereas you look just looked at mean and
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: just stared her down.
• 14:31
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I probably had that look on my face probably,
• 14:33
  Speaker 7: I mean, I know I keep that look on my face.
• 14:35
  Speaker 7: I probably had ash to look on my face then,
• 14:36
  Speaker 7: because I'm pretty pissed off, but no situation.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: A couple of months ago, well, you brought a baby home,
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: and after that everything kind of fell apart of it,
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: especially with dinner time. We basically never cooked and we do.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: It's the same terrible three meals over and over again.
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: Susan. I hate to scare you, but it doesn't get
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: any easier. Figuring out to feed my three teenagers is
• 15:02
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• 15:06
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• 16:28
  Speaker 4: At trial, both Lee's and Kine's attorneys had been focused
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: on trying to discredit the prosecution's theory of what the
• 16:35
  Speaker 4: motive had been. The prosecution argued that Brian Bowling had
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: given evidence against Lee and Kine that implicated them in
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: the theft of a safe from Kin's father. The day
• 16:47
  Speaker 4: before the trial was scheduled to begin, the Rome News
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: Tribune had run an article about the case and quoted investigators.
• 16:55
  Speaker 4: It read investigators David Stewart and Sergeant dallas Back said
• 17:00
  Speaker 4: they believe Story and Clark conspire to murder Brian because
• 17:04
  Speaker 4: he was the only witness who could testify against the
• 17:07
  Speaker 4: two in.
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: A burglary case.
• 17:10
  Speaker 4: This is not what the prosecution was able to show
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: a trial, though under oath, the investigator's claims that Brian's
• 17:17
  Speaker 4: role as a witness had been much more modest. One
• 17:21
  Speaker 4: week before Brian's death, Investigator Stuart had been attempting to
• 17:24
  Speaker 4: interview Lee.
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: Clark about the safe theft. He had stopped by.
• 17:28
  Speaker 4: The Bowling residence to search for Lee Clark, but Lee
• 17:31
  Speaker 4: hadn't been there. On his way back out to his car,
• 17:35
  Speaker 4: Stuart stopped and briefly spoke to Brian.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: Did you at any time interview mister Brian Bowling.
• 17:42
  Speaker 8: Yes, Kine's story was present when I talked with Brian
• 17:45
  Speaker 8: Bowling about particularities involved with the theft of the safe.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: Was kain story just there in the premises or actually
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: a part of the conversation.
• 17:53
  Speaker 8: I did not talk with kin and he was not
• 17:55
  Speaker 8: part of our conversation, but he was there where he
• 17:58
  Speaker 8: heard the conversation.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: How do you know he heard the conversation?
• 18:02
  Speaker 8: Well, I saw him. He was standing next to Brian.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: Did Brian Bowling cooperate with you give you information? Yes
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: he did, and did it lead to the arrest of anyone?
• 18:13
  Speaker 8: It corroborated statements made by defendants involved with the case.
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: There's no record in the police file about what Brian
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: told investigator Stuart.
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: Stuart did not document this conversation.
• 18:26
  Speaker 4: But nothing Brian said to Stuart could have led to
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: any arrests because by the time this conversation occurred, all
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: four of the boys involved in the safe theft had
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: already been charged and arrested. But whatever Brian said to
• 18:41
  Speaker 4: the investigator, Cain heard it too.
• 18:46
  Speaker 7: Another plain thing about Robins Avoue. You know, were require
• 18:53
  Speaker 7: an element and me and Brian questions about you know,
• 18:59
  Speaker 7: I mean, we tell her.
• 19:00
  Speaker 9: But you didn't hear Brian say anything about Lee.
• 19:04
  Speaker 7: Oh oh, the whole conversation about it. That's the line.
• 19:08
  Speaker 7: It never happened.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: Well, it was during that conversation he was supposed to
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: have been given the info that made the case against
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: y'all for the safe I know in.
• 19:17
  Speaker 7: The town that ain't ask him, I would rapids finding
• 19:22
  Speaker 7: when you answer.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: The prosecution used David Stewart to prove that Brian had
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: spoken to the police, and also that can and Lee
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: had known about it because Kan had been standing right
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: there when it happened. But the prosecution also needed to
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: show that this would have been enough to motivate Lee
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: and Kine to kill Brian. And that's where Debora Kelly
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: came in. You've heard from her before. She testified that
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: while cleaning the story's trailer, she'd come across a notebook
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: that belonged to King.
• 19:50
  Speaker 6: It was a list of rules the dudes and the don'ts,
• 19:55
  Speaker 6: and they initiated into the gang and obviously step I
• 20:00
  Speaker 6: don't remember all the roads, but what stood out to
• 20:02
  Speaker 6: make the most is if a brother's cop knocking on
• 20:06
  Speaker 6: another brother of the punishment's death.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: Deborah Kelly testified that this notebook had identified the members
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: of the Freebird Gang, including Brian, Kan and Lee, and
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: she believes that Brian was killed because he'd broken the
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: gang's most important rule. In your testimony, you mentioned a
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: time that Brian came over did not ring a bell
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: at all.
• 20:29
  Speaker 6: He's the one that tell me that he knew something
• 20:33
  Speaker 6: about the safe and I tell him to contact.
• 20:37
  Speaker 9: The Prince, and you don't know if he did or not.
• 20:41
  Speaker 6: I'm sure he did. He's dead, you know, I'm pretty sure.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: Even before Brian's death, Debbie Kelly had a low opinion
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: of Lee and Kane and the other teenage boys that
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: Brian had hung out with. She didn't like the way
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: they acted, and she didn't like the language that she'd
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: heard the muse around one another.
• 21:01
  Speaker 6: And they said it was about the time the fair
• 21:05
  Speaker 6: was in Rome, and they said, hey, homie, y'all going
• 21:10
  Speaker 6: to the fair. And that made me so upset. And
• 21:14
  Speaker 6: I looked at those boys. I said, these two ain't
• 21:17
  Speaker 6: going to nowhere, but probably to the graveyard or jail.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: Humph Ryan had been different from the other boys, though,
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: w Kelly told us he'd had a conscience.
• 21:28
  Speaker 6: Even though he was in that gang free Birds. I
• 21:32
  Speaker 6: don't think he was happy. I think he wanted out,
• 21:36
  Speaker 6: and so he went, and I'm pretty sure he told
• 21:41
  Speaker 6: the police about the safe and everything. In my opinion,
• 21:48
  Speaker 6: that's what got him killed.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: Wi Kelly had known a lot about the safe theft.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: In fact, she'd been something of an unofficial, unappointed assistant
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: to the investigation.
• 21:58
  Speaker 6: David Stewart taught me pretty well on uh, he said,
• 22:02
  Speaker 6: I I already went to be an investigator.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: David Stewart told you that you ought to be an investigator.
• 22:09
  Speaker 6: Yeah, that's what he said.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: When did he say that?
• 22:12
  Speaker 6: That was when all this began.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: Wie Kelly told us that after Brian's death, she continued
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: her investigation and questioned Keane about his role in it.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: He said, I talked to Josh a lot, asking him
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: questions and he don't ever have any straight answers.
• 22:27
  Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, I said, came, don't go down for somebody
• 22:32
  Speaker 6: else's doings. You told Debbyer you didn't do it, But
• 22:36
  Speaker 6: there was some scuffling in that bedroom. Where did the
• 22:39
  Speaker 6: scuffling come from? That's what I asked. And I said,
• 22:45
  Speaker 6: if Lee done it, that explains while Lee ran.
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: Did you ask him if you didn't do it, who did?
• 22:53
  Speaker 13: Or?
• 22:54
  Speaker 7: Yeah?
• 22:55
  Speaker 6: And he would never They called it nark on a homie.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: David Stewart had also tried to get Cain to knock
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: on his homies when he'd interviewed Kin about the safe theft.
• 23:07
  Speaker 6: And I'll tell you what he told Kane, And this
• 23:10
  Speaker 6: was David's words. He said, because where you're going is
• 23:14
  Speaker 6: to big Man jail and said they gonna call you
• 23:18
  Speaker 6: sweet thing when you walk in the door. David was
• 23:21
  Speaker 6: trying to scare him into telling the truth.
• 23:27
  Speaker 9: How did Can react to that?
• 23:30
  Speaker 6: His words was, I don't give up.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: David Stewart's interview with Kan was recorded, and Ken's attorney
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: introduced it into evidence of trial, which is why this
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: tape recording still exists. In this interview, though Kan does
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: not display the defiant attitude that Debora Kelly remembers.
• 23:52
  Speaker 13: Okay, when you say you all got the safe?
• 23:55
  Speaker 11: Who was all involved?
• 23:57
  Speaker 14: His name the names of me, Lee, hard Beat, Jordan, Jebipher,
• 24:03
  Speaker 14: We got to save. We left and went and destroyed
• 24:07
  Speaker 14: the safe and got the money out.
• 24:12
  Speaker 11: I can't think of anything else at this time.
• 24:14
  Speaker 13: I'll note that I think Josh is trying to get
• 24:19
  Speaker 13: all this behind him. He's, at least as far as
• 24:22
  Speaker 13: I'm concerned for, he has been cooperable with me, and.
• 24:28
  Speaker 11: We were landed at that.
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: Deborah Kelly had been present at this interview as well.
• 24:33
  Speaker 4: She helped investigator Steward question Kane.
• 24:37
  Speaker 13: Also with May I'll mentioned for the record is Deborah Kelly,
• 24:41
  Speaker 13: who is a neighbor witness to this incident. And mister Kelly,
• 24:44
  Speaker 13: He's go ahead.
• 24:48
  Speaker 9: I thank Josh forgot about saying.
• 24:50
  Speaker 15: How they put the money up.
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: After Brian had been shot and killed, Deborah Kelly had
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: switched from investigating the safe theft to investigating Brian's death.
• 25:08
  Speaker 4: That's when she remembered the notebook she'd found in the
• 25:11
  Speaker 4: Stories trailer, the one with the disturbing imagery.
• 25:14
  Speaker 6: On it, and there was crossbound skulls. I'll never forget
• 25:21
  Speaker 6: that on the cover on in front of.
• 25:23
  Speaker 5: It that I wrote over and was.
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: Caine told Susan there had been a notebook with skull
• 25:34
  Speaker 4: and crossbones on the cover.
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: The notebook was real.
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: The school.
• 25:46
  Speaker 7: Actually be the symbol of the we were gonna have
• 25:48
  Speaker 7: on our base draw actually want me to symbol of
• 25:51
  Speaker 7: the band. They we were riding for the band every
• 25:57
  Speaker 7: time moon uh Dethney doay?
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: Were they like? Were they violent lyrics?
• 26:07
  Speaker 15: No?
• 26:08
  Speaker 7: No, I don't know. I didn't even even even get
• 26:10
  Speaker 7: into violent lyrics. I mean not anymore. You know what
• 26:14
  Speaker 7: I mean? How many with the whole? You know, the
• 26:15
  Speaker 7: whole Nirvana? You know Hermack.
• 26:21
  Speaker 4: Deborah Kelly had known that Kane often wrote song lyrics.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: You mentioned in your Toronto's Money that when you found
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: the gang notebook. At first, she thought it was like
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: rock and.
• 26:30
  Speaker 6: Roll songs or yeah start with yeah, yeah.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: So you'd seen him like write lyrics and songs before
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: and whatnot?
• 26:37
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean he would, they would write sounds.
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: But Debbie Kelly insisted that this notebook had not been
• 26:45
  Speaker 4: full of song lyrics. Instead, it had contained the bylaws
• 26:49
  Speaker 4: of a violent gang and the gang's leader, Deborah Kelly said,
• 26:54
  Speaker 4: was listed as Kane's story.
• 26:57
  Speaker 8: Does it strike you as he would be the leader
• 26:59
  Speaker 8: of that gang?
• 27:00
  Speaker 11: Would he be the one who would really be the leader?
• 27:04
  Speaker 6: I think it was a title, to be honest. The
• 27:09
  Speaker 6: main thing is they all stuck together. That's the why
• 27:14
  Speaker 6: I figured it out. They all stuck together and they
• 27:16
  Speaker 6: wouldn't gonna knock on the other one.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: Of all the witnesses we've spoken to in this case,
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: the interview with w Kelly might have been the most
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: difficult interview of them all.
• 27:32
  Speaker 9: The problem I was having is what she told us
• 27:34
  Speaker 9: was so different from her other statements that.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: I didn't know where to take the question.
• 27:41
  Speaker 4: She changed her story even while we while we were
• 27:45
  Speaker 4: sitting there talking.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: Every time I had a question, she would adapt to it.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: So I was like, if I asked her a question,
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: She's going to say that's part of the story.
• 27:51
  Speaker 16: Now, there is no way in reality where if if
• 27:56
  Speaker 16: Dave Stewart said the king, can you tell me? Or
• 28:00
  Speaker 16: you're going to jail and you're going to be somebody's sweetheart,
• 28:03
  Speaker 16: there is no way of everything I know about the
• 28:05
  Speaker 16: kid and her spoken to him, there's no way that
• 28:07
  Speaker 16: he wouldn't have.
• 28:07
  Speaker 5: Cracked right away.
• 28:08
  Speaker 9: He did crack right away.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: Debbie Kelly's memory of a defiant cane story who'd refused
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: to knark at his homies, was it odds with the
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: actual case record. On many points, it's clear that Debbie
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: Kelly's memories have very much changed with time. But as
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: Dan pointed out, Debbie Kelly never actually gave a contemporaneous
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: interview about the notebook. The first time she'd spoken to
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: police about it had been nearly a year after she
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: says it was found.
• 28:37
  Speaker 8: I'm just saying that it makes it even more possible
• 28:39
  Speaker 8: that she's just like kind of imagining what she glanced
• 28:43
  Speaker 8: over for a second.
• 28:45
  Speaker 4: She seems like a witness would be easy to lead.
• 28:47
  Speaker 6: As yeah saw with that's.
• 28:49
  Speaker 4: Own questioning, right, you could almost imagine what the conversation.
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: So let's say Dave Stewart is like comes to her.
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: It's like, you know these boys are in a gang?
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, really yeah.
• 28:58
  Speaker 4: Did you ever see anything gang?
• 28:59
  Speaker 5: Really?
• 29:00
  Speaker 15: Well?
• 29:00
  Speaker 4: There was this notebook with a skull and crossbone.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: What a skull and crossbows?
• 29:04
  Speaker 8: I mean Keith Richards has a skull ring?
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: I mean yeah, but they would have jumped on that. Ooh,
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: it sounds horrible. What else was there writing in there?
• 29:12
  Speaker 5: Was there?
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: Since the skull and Crossbones notebook was never found, there's
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: no way to know now for sure what was written inside,
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: But Debbie told investigators that there was someone else who
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: had seen the notebook too. Was there anyone else who
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: knew about the notebook at that time? Was anyone with
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: you when you found a notebook?
• 29:33
  Speaker 6: There was a girl, had me clain. Her name was Nancy,
• 29:36
  Speaker 6: and I don't know why ever happened her, but she
• 29:40
  Speaker 6: was very nervous.
• 29:43
  Speaker 4: Susan and I found Nancy Williams at her apartment in Rome.
• 29:48
  Speaker 4: We spoke to her while her grandkids were running around
• 29:50
  Speaker 4: playing nearby, and she confirmed that she had once helped
• 29:53
  Speaker 4: Debbie Kelly clean the story's trailer.
• 29:58
  Speaker 15: She cleaned houses and she played there and I was
• 30:01
  Speaker 15: with her at one time and she found a notebook.
• 30:03
  Speaker 15: I don't know if that notebook ever made it a trial.
• 30:05
  Speaker 9: I was never calling as a witness.
• 30:06
  Speaker 7: She probably was.
• 30:08
  Speaker 4: Nancy actually did testify at the trial, though, and she'd
• 30:12
  Speaker 4: forgotten that she had.
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: She still remembered the notebook though.
• 30:17
  Speaker 15: We just went in there, dusted and straightened up, and
• 30:19
  Speaker 15: I was in his room and I remember finding a notebook,
• 30:23
  Speaker 15: but it was like a plane of composition notebook or
• 30:26
  Speaker 15: cutting table gellor, just a spiral notebook, and it was
• 30:30
  Speaker 15: disturbing and I don't remember specifically what it says now,
• 30:32
  Speaker 15: I couldn't tell you.
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: At the time.
• 30:35
  Speaker 4: Nancy had lived just down the road from the Stories,
• 30:38
  Speaker 4: so she knew Kane, but they had never interacted.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: Oh so you never actually met Josh or came.
• 30:43
  Speaker 5: Well.
• 30:44
  Speaker 15: See the reason that that it's like that with Kane
• 30:45
  Speaker 15: is because the especially my mother in all the time,
• 30:48
  Speaker 15: would always remark how unusual it was to have a
• 30:50
  Speaker 15: boy in Kine. And it's no wonder it turned out either,
• 30:53
  Speaker 15: you know, but it's crazy selling people.
• 31:01
  Speaker 4: Nancy was never interviewed by the police, but she was
• 31:04
  Speaker 4: interviewed by the District Attorney's office. She told the DA's
• 31:08
  Speaker 4: investigator about finding a notebook at the story's trailer, but
• 31:13
  Speaker 4: said that it hadn't contained a list of gang members
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: or anything like that. At trial, though Nancy's story changed. Yes,
• 31:21
  Speaker 4: she said there had been a list of gang members
• 31:24
  Speaker 4: in the notebook, though she didn't remember any names. All
• 31:28
  Speaker 4: she remembered seeing in the notebook were two rules that
• 31:31
  Speaker 4: gang members had been required to follow. The first rule was,
• 31:36
  Speaker 4: if a brother speaks to pigs, meaning the police, then
• 31:39
  Speaker 4: punishment is death. The second rule was, should any other
• 31:44
  Speaker 4: brother be aware that another brother has spoken to the pigs,
• 31:48
  Speaker 4: then it is that brother's duty to kill him, and
• 31:52
  Speaker 4: if that brother fails to do so, then he is
• 31:55
  Speaker 4: to be put to death as well. We asked Nancy
• 31:58
  Speaker 4: what had been like to find that this notebook?
• 32:02
  Speaker 15: Very uneventful? Oh, never, look at this is weird gravy.
• 32:07
  Speaker 7: We didn't tat.
• 32:09
  Speaker 15: We didn't spend very much time on it. I just
• 32:11
  Speaker 15: showed it to her.
• 32:12
  Speaker 9: And when we went, wouldn't they creepy?
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: Do you mean like like drug related or like violence?
• 32:19
  Speaker 9: Or they didn't find the notebook? So we don't know.
• 32:24
  Speaker 15: Really, was there never a notebook?
• 32:26
  Speaker 9: No one ever saw the notebook?
• 32:28
  Speaker 15: So that really.
• 32:32
  Speaker 14: Wow?
• 32:32
  Speaker 4: I didn't know that we spoke to Nancy's daughter as well.
• 32:36
  Speaker 4: She had been too young to remember the Bowling case,
• 32:39
  Speaker 4: but growing up she'd heard people talk about it, and
• 32:42
  Speaker 4: she was surprised to learn that her mom had testified
• 32:45
  Speaker 4: at the trial.
• 32:47
  Speaker 9: Even Mama testified.
• 32:48
  Speaker 15: I can't believe I did that. I might have been
• 32:50
  Speaker 15: my todently.
• 32:53
  Speaker 7: Evidently I was in the court.
• 32:56
  Speaker 15: I mean, you'd think that'd be something to remember, wouldn't you.
• 32:59
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I guess, I guess I did not at all.
• 33:04
  Speaker 4: Today, Nancy does not remember the contents of the notebook,
• 33:09
  Speaker 4: but she also doesn't remember thinking that the notebook was
• 33:11
  Speaker 4: a big deal. She told us that it hadn't seemed
• 33:15
  Speaker 4: ominous to her, just strange.
• 33:18
  Speaker 17: I hate that notebook, probably half convicted to I mean,
• 33:23
  Speaker 17: I don't even have it, but was never even in evidence.
• 33:26
  Speaker 15: That's crazy.
• 33:31
  Speaker 17: If ever, you wanted to find a case in a
• 33:34
  Speaker 17: town that was dirty and done wrong, if y'all wanted to,
• 33:39
  Speaker 17: I'm telling you, if y'all wouldn't take much looking in
• 33:41
  Speaker 17: this county at other cases that sent people away for life,
• 33:44
  Speaker 17: and you might just find yourself something bigger than y'all.
• 33:50
  Speaker 9: Well, Dallas Battle has a currently quite a history.
• 33:53
  Speaker 7: In a scow.
• 33:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 33:55
  Speaker 17: Yeah, Fortunately I never had to deal with him, you know,
• 33:59
  Speaker 17: but I do know. I've dealt with enough policemen. You
• 34:02
  Speaker 17: know that we're dirty and party didn't have fun and
• 34:06
  Speaker 17: did what they wanted to do.
• 34:07
  Speaker 8: They did.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: This goal in Crossbund's notebook was never found, which is
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: why it shouldn't have mattered in this case at all.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: When Canaan Lee appealed their conviction, they argued in part
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: that the trial court should not have allowed the notebook
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: to be used as evidence, and the Supreme Court of
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: Georgia agreed with them.
• 34:41
  Speaker 8: The testimony of the women was hearsay, and it was
• 34:44
  Speaker 8: admitted without a determination that it fell within an exception
• 34:47
  Speaker 8: to the rule prohibiting the use of hearsay. The erroneous
• 34:50
  Speaker 8: admission of the women's testimony concerning the contents of the
• 34:53
  Speaker 8: composition book is, however, made harmless by the testimony of
• 34:57
  Speaker 8: the party hostess concerning gang membership rules.
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: The court concluded that neither w. Kelly nor Nancy Williams
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: should have been allowed to testify, and that letting the
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: jury hear about the alleged gang rule book had been
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: a mistake. But the court also concluded that this mistake
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: hadn't caused any harm to Lee's and Kaine's defense because
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: Angela Bruce had testified that Cain and Lee had confessed
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: to being in a gang, which means the evidence about
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: the gang rule book didn't actually matter. The court found
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: that even if the jury had never heard about the
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: rule book, they still would have believed Angela Bruce, so
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: they would have convicted Lee and Kane anyway. Brian's uncle
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: Michael believes, though, that neither Kin nor Lee would have
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: been convicted if it hadn't been for the third witness
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: that was called to testify in Kaine's defense. That witness
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: was Kane Joshua's story himself.
• 36:00
  Speaker 4: What do you think was the most compelling evidence against them?
• 36:04
  Speaker 11: Josh's testimony?
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: Josh's testimony, Yeah, I.
• 36:08
  Speaker 11: Think that's all the way that the trial ended the
• 36:11
  Speaker 11: way it need.
• 36:12
  Speaker 4: Do you think if he hadn't taken the stand, I
• 36:14
  Speaker 4: think they would have got off the hook. As you're
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: watching the trial, are you are you worried it's not
• 36:20
  Speaker 4: going to end in a conviction?
• 36:22
  Speaker 11: Yes? Yeah, I was thinking, you know that there's probably
• 36:27
  Speaker 11: about a savety percent chance that we would not get
• 36:29
  Speaker 11: a conviction. Until he testified.
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: After Cane testified, Michael had felt pretty certain that the
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: jury would find him guilty, but he hadn't expected that
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: they would find Lee guilty as well. But you remember
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: having the thought that Josh could be convicted, that Lee
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: might not be.
• 36:50
  Speaker 11: Yes, I was surprised at the verdict that he was
• 36:53
  Speaker 11: convicted period.
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: Glenn Clark also remembers that Caine's testimony had been a
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: bit of a mess.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: That was a saying, hey, that bull got up, heir,
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: they shouldn't never put that bull on stand. He cried,
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: I mean, kay, Josh breaks down, cry up, then stand.
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: You know they shouldn't never put him on stand. If
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: you could have been there and saw it, you don't
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: know what I was told him.
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: In the transcript, the court reporter noted twelve different times
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: that Kan was crying as he spoke in court, and
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: twice there's simply a notation of the witness sobs loudly.
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: No one who saw Kin's testimony has suggested to us
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: that he was somehow faking this. Everyone believed he was
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: genuinely distraught, but many of them interpreted King's tears as
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: a sign of remorse. They thought he was crying because
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: he felt bad about killing Brian. It wasn't just Kaine's
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: demeanor though, that made his testimony a disaster for Lee Clark,
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: because Kan testified to something that the prosecution could never
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: have proven on its own that on the evening that
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: Brian had been shot, Li and Kane were hanging out together.
• 38:06
  Speaker 7: Came to people with me earner that day and I
• 38:07
  Speaker 7: think it's worth all of Sam from Ruther. We dropped
• 38:10
  Speaker 7: him off the shore. When I did dropp him off
• 38:11
  Speaker 7: the store, I dropped him off down the Shield creak
• 38:13
  Speaker 7: and walking over more Highway. He turned around and went
• 38:16
  Speaker 7: back to my house in Linnville.
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: This is probably why Lee became a suspect in this
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: case in the first place, and why investigators decided it
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: was a Lee and not any of the other alleged
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: freebirds who had been Kin's co conspirator, because they knew
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: Lin Kane had been hanging out that evening before Brian
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: was shot, though for some reason, the investigators ignored the
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: fact that there had been a third boy with Lian
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: Kane as well, Lee's little brother, Jamie.
• 38:45
  Speaker 14: We took and dropped Kane off and that was the
• 38:47
  Speaker 14: last week, saying to him, my brother was driving and
• 38:50
  Speaker 14: then we went to over there where my brother was living, and.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: We've already that night drinking stuff like that. Lee and
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: Jamie have never denied that they were driving around with
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: Cain that night, but the police never interviewed them. They
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: only ever talked to Kane. He was their only source
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: for this information. But under the sixth Amendment, nothing Cain
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: said about Lee could be used as evidence against him
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: unless and until Kane agreed to testify, which he did
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: so the jury did get to hear that can and
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: Lee were together that night, and they also heard why
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: Canaan Lee had been hanging out that night.
• 39:26
  Speaker 7: We stole the safe on October to thir I picked
• 39:29
  Speaker 7: Cane up on October eighteenth. When I picked them up
• 39:32
  Speaker 7: on October eighteenth, everybody had already been arrested in George
• 39:35
  Speaker 7: with their safety. I was trying to find out which
• 39:38
  Speaker 7: one of them says them, whether it was Jane or
• 39:39
  Speaker 7: his little buddy Joseph. I know one of them does
• 39:42
  Speaker 7: sits up to the police.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: All four of the boys involved in the safe theft
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: had been arrested and charged with the theft, but only
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: Kane and Joseph were arrested the very same day that
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: the safe had been stolen, and it was that evening
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: that someone had told the police where the boys had
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: left the busted up safe off a dirt road in
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: Polk County. So Lee knew someone involved in the safe
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: theft had talked to the police, and there were only
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: two possibilities about who it could be.
• 40:08
  Speaker 7: I know it was either Kin or Joseph. It had
• 40:10
  Speaker 7: to be wanting them to That's the only plausible exclamation,
• 40:12
  Speaker 7: and that was right. It turned out it was Kane
• 40:14
  Speaker 7: to city.
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: When Kane testified a trial, he'd confirmed that that night.
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: Lee had asked him straight up if he'd been the
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: one to talk to the police. Kane said. Lee hadn't
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: seemed angry or upset. He just wanted to know who
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: had done it. Kane told him he didn't know, so
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: they smoked another joint and drove around some more. Can
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: of course, had known who done it. It was him,
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: but Lee wouldn't find that out until much later on,
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: when the tape recording of King's statement to David Stewart
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: was played in court.
• 40:45
  Speaker 7: I turned around and looked at him when they'd played
• 40:46
  Speaker 7: that day bust he really, I see, really, mane. He
• 40:49
  Speaker 7: just hold his head down. I I mean he needs what.
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: Indeed, Kane's testimony about hanging out with Lee and Jamie
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: that night had not looked good for Lee, and from
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: what Brian's uncle it's into the trial, it was because
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: of Can's testimony that the jury came back with guilty
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: verdicts for both defendants.
• 41:12
  Speaker 7: When the people come in there and they found me
• 41:15
  Speaker 7: this decision, I felt something at that point right that
• 41:19
  Speaker 7: I ain't never felt in my life, and I probably
• 41:21
  Speaker 7: never feel again the rest of my life, unless it
• 41:24
  Speaker 7: maybe on the day I die, I might feel it. Den,
• 41:27
  Speaker 7: I don't know.
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: Lee had not been expecting the verdict.
• 41:32
  Speaker 4: He thought the trial had gone well for him, and
• 41:34
  Speaker 4: he felt confident that after sitting in the county jail
• 41:37
  Speaker 4: for nearly a year, he was finally going to walk free.
• 41:42
  Speaker 7: Never think it, I'm gonna go home, because this is
• 41:44
  Speaker 7: about your life. Right here. When they did that right there,
• 41:48
  Speaker 7: I got I couldn't even believe it. My mind is
• 41:53
  Speaker 7: running the doll different directions. I'm about to joke the dead.
• 41:57
  Speaker 7: I feel like I'm going to ball over dead because
• 41:59
  Speaker 7: I don't feel like I can. You can't explain that
• 42:04
  Speaker 7: feeling to anybody. You don't many nobody. How much detail
• 42:06
  Speaker 7: you go into about it, you cannot get somebody to
• 42:10
  Speaker 7: feel that face it, because that's something that you had
• 42:12
  Speaker 7: to experience where your self the building feeling. I mean,
• 42:15
  Speaker 7: it's the feeling you just lost all hope. I said,
• 42:17
  Speaker 7: you lost flash before you guys, and that's a that's
• 42:22
  Speaker 7: a hell of a feeling to be sitting there feeling
• 42:24
  Speaker 7: the day age eighteen years old. And they didn't make
• 42:28
  Speaker 7: it no worse when they put us on the bus
• 42:30
  Speaker 7: and I thought it under jack to stay prison. I'm
• 42:32
  Speaker 7: sitting there looking over it, just prison, scared to de
• 42:35
  Speaker 7: because I don't know what's waiting on me inside. I
• 42:37
  Speaker 7: turned around out looked a gain. I told Gane, I said,
• 42:39
  Speaker 7: we ain't gonna make it. The Gane he's over balling
• 42:44
  Speaker 7: his eyeballs out. I told him. I said, Mane, you
• 42:48
  Speaker 7: might gonna stop all that right there. I said, that
• 42:50
  Speaker 7: ain't gonna look good you keep doing that. Some of
• 42:51
  Speaker 7: these guys say that right there. Man, did he quit anybus?
• 42:55
  Speaker 7: You got yourself under control once we got going through
• 42:58
  Speaker 7: there and we get in there and they go to
• 43:00
  Speaker 7: gaving her head. I mean he didn't the word looking
• 43:03
  Speaker 7: liked to get red.
• 43:07
  Speaker 4: When Lee arrived at the prison that day, he'd been
• 43:10
  Speaker 4: certain he wasn't going to make it, that he didn't
• 43:13
  Speaker 4: have what it takes to survive behind prison walls.
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: But he did survive, and he says that more.
• 43:19
  Speaker 4: Than anything else, it's the support he's gotten from his
• 43:22
  Speaker 4: father that helped him make it through.
• 43:26
  Speaker 7: I mean, I know all kids think the world and
• 43:28
  Speaker 7: her dad. If my dad had gotten to be one,
• 43:30
  Speaker 7: to be a man I've ever made in my life
• 43:32
  Speaker 7: and in the naturally good guy, and I've told him
• 43:34
  Speaker 7: before one hundred times over, how you know did it
• 43:37
  Speaker 7: I did? If I could get it ever in my lifetime,
• 43:40
  Speaker 7: live up and be half the man your I'll be
• 43:44
  Speaker 7: doing fine.
• 43:46
  Speaker 4: Glenn Clark has never given up on his son, but
• 43:49
  Speaker 4: he doesn't know how he can help thee challenge his conviction.
• 43:53
  Speaker 4: He's tried over the years, but every time he's turned
• 43:55
  Speaker 4: somewhere for help, he's been turned down, and he's out
• 43:59
  Speaker 4: of ideas of what to do.
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: Has that pain ever gone away? Do you still carry
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: it with you?
• 44:08
  Speaker 5: Da ain't a date that goes by that I don't
• 44:14
  Speaker 5: think about Lee.
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: And here it is, I'm getting older and I'm hoping
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: and praying that he'll be able to get out while
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: I'm still here so I can help him get on
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: his feet.
• 44:26
  Speaker 5: Let me tell you something.
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: Ever since Lee's been locked up, I've been trying to
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: run up on somebody that can help me.
• 44:37
  Speaker 4: One decade past and then another, and still Lee is
• 44:41
  Speaker 4: no closer to going home, Glenn says at times, thinking
• 44:46
  Speaker 4: about his son behind bars for a crime he doesn't
• 44:49
  Speaker 4: believe Lee committed was too much for him to bear.
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: I had a bad uh, I won't say, I call
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: a breakdown, and got real bad depression stage. And I
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: don't I don't know how to tell you this happened,
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: but I uh, I stuck a gun to my head
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: more than once. They're pulled a hammer back. But look,
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: I'm looking for help. I'm looking for a way out.
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: I'm looking for help. You just you can't realize how
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: bad it is. Somebody ain't never been there.
• 45:21
  Speaker 5: And got a clue.
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: So I told Sherry, I said, you're gonna need to
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: take me the hospital somewhere. I said, don't, I'm gonna
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: hurt myself. You don't want to tell nobody. But they
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: took me to kind of like a mental hospital, and
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: and and not just mental. But they got psychiatrists that
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: come in the night. They took me over there. They
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: put me in a room and I had a room
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: by myself, and I went.
• 45:50
  Speaker 7: In that room.
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: I'm sure just what the church too, but uh w
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: when you get that low, he's called now when you
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: get that low? And I asked the Lord, I said, God,
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: I don't know where you're there or not said, but
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: if you are, I.
• 46:27
  Speaker 5: Need you come in my life to refuse to take
• 46:30
  Speaker 5: it over.
• 46:31
  Speaker 4: If you would want to renumber from receiving calls from
• 46:34
  Speaker 4: this facility.
• 46:35
  Speaker 5: I put all my faith in him, and uh.
• 46:40
  Speaker 7: Thank you, producing securist. You may start the conversation now.
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: And it's been Hayley hold. I want to spend it
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: so and since I've done that, but.
• 47:03
  Speaker 5: You just hold on for a minute.
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: M h. Yeah.
• 47:14
  Speaker 5: He changed my life.
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: He might have mad. It took a while. It's a
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: it's up working process. I told him, I said, if
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: you'll do for me, come into my life. I'll do
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: for you for the rest of my life.
• 47:38
  Speaker 5: And and I do late you do you dare?
• 47:46
  Speaker 7: Yeah, what's going on?
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: But I am uh got just sitting in here and
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: uh talking to him, and I'm being a movie star.
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: So next week on Proof, he's the first person I've
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: spoken to who actually is like affirmably said yes, I
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: have knowledge of the free birds.
• 48:18
  Speaker 7: It was a thing.
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: No one else has had any actual knowledge of the
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: free birds.
• 48:27
  Speaker 4: So the story, according to Archer is as I said,
• 48:29
  Speaker 4: don't go to Brian's house. Promise me you won't go
• 48:31
  Speaker 4: to Brian's house, and then that's the night Brian does.
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: Shot a trial. They say that you wrote this note,
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: that you wrote the narks thing.
• 48:45
  Speaker 14: I never asked me anything about anything.
• 48:56
  Speaker 4: You've been listening to Proof, a podcast by read Marble Media.
• 49:00
  Speaker 3: We'll be back next Monday for episode eleven.
• 49:02
  Speaker 4: Send us your questions at proofcrimepodat gmail dot com. We'll
• 49:07
  Speaker 4: respond during our bonus episodes Proof Sidebar on Thursdays. Kevin
• 49:12
  Speaker 4: Fitzpatrick is our executive producer. Our logo was designed by
• 49:16
  Speaker 4: Drew Hosski and our theme music is by Ramiro Marquez.
• 49:20
  Speaker 4: Audio production for this episode is by George Panos and
• 49:23
  Speaker 4: Michael Yulatowski. Production assistance provided by Jude Slava. Our social
• 49:29
  Speaker 4: media manager is Skyler Park. Thank you to our sponsors
• 49:32
  Speaker 4: for making it possible for us to come back week
• 49:34
  Speaker 4: after week. Follow us everywhere with the handle at Proofcrimepod
• 49:39
  Speaker 4: and on our website, proofcrimepod dot com.
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: That's all for this week. Thanks for listening.