Latest / Just Heal with Dr Jay / More Than A "Freak Like Me": Adina Howard on Womanhood & Wholeness

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More Than A "Freak Like Me": Adina Howard on Womanhood & Wholeness · Just Heal with Dr Jay

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome to jess Hell with Doctor J, a production of
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: the Black Effect Podcast Network and iHeartRadio or some good people.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: This is Doctor J and we are back for another
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  Speaker 1: episode with Just Heal with Doctor J. Some of you
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: have been eavesdropping on the episodes, and I want to
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  Speaker 1: challenge you to click that subscribe button. Listen. We are
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: available on Spotify, the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeart Podcast Network,
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to podcasts. All right, welcome back
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: to another episode of Just Here with Doctor J. And
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  Speaker 1: I am your host, Doctor J. Barnett. Listen. I am
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: a eighties baby, and I know some of you were
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: probably in ninety five ninety six years. I think I
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: was in seven or eighth grade, but I wasn't old
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: enough to listen to rap and hip hop because my
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: dad was a pastor, and so we had to sneak
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: and watch BT because BT could not be played at
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: our house. I remember an encounter where my dad caught
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: me watching BT after dark, and let me tell you,
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: it wasn't a good sight because he said, what are
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: you doing watching? Boy? Not what you doing watching this?
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: What are you doing watching? So it was like, why
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: are you watching this? And so I can vividly remember
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: this song called Freak Like Me Again. I was in
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: school and I was doing what every other seven and
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  Speaker 1: eighth grader was doing. I was watching miss Adena Howard
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  Speaker 1: as all of you were wherever you were. Anyway, I
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  Speaker 1: am honored and I am humble to have none other
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  Speaker 1: than herself, miss Adena Howard, and this recording artist who
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  Speaker 1: has been a pillar in women liberation in the nineties.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: Because what she did in the nineties, I don't think
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: we ever seen done until some years later with some
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  Speaker 1: other artists. I won't name them at this time, but
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: miss Da how welcome to the healing community.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: Thank you for inviting me.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: Now i'd have had this big loud voice she come
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  Speaker 1: here with this.
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  Speaker 2: Thank you for listen. This is what happens. So when
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: I'm on camera, I'm not comfortable in front of the camera.
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: So there's something that comes over me where I just
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: I start touched. I start to just kind of my
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: voice comes down, but like coming through that, I'm like, hey,
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: how you doing. Yeah, I project, But when this stuff
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: is around, I'm just a little listen.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: I won't say thank you because you guys, this is
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: the first time she's done this, and for her to
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: be open to come to the healing space. I don't
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: take it for granted. Thank you to Kasha, thank you
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: to London for aligning all of this, because what I
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: wanted my platform to be is a space for people
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: from all walks of life to come right. Because we
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: know you as the artist, but today I think we
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: get in. We will have the opportunity to get to
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: know the Laman behind the music, not just behind the song,
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: because you've done other things and so I just want
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: to say thank you for lending me your time. I
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  Speaker 1: know you're touring right now, and so thank you for
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: stopping buying Dallas to sit down with the Good Doctor.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: As my mother say, Mama, I love it, I got it.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: I got always shot her out because she will say,
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: you know, I gave you that name boy. So thank you, mama.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: So how you feeling today, baby?
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: I feel better than good. I'm blessed to marinated in
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  Speaker 2: divine favor, blessed and man and marinated. Yes, Mama, I'm
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: about to get my mama there. Because my mom I
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: can call her right now. She's gonna be like, I'll
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: be like, Mama, what you doing? Blessing Holly's favor I'm
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: gonna tell her. I have to tell her.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: She got to add that marinated in.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: Yes, marinated in divine favor. Absolutely.
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: Man, you look good, look amazing. I was telling you earlier,
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  Speaker 1: like whatever you're doing, you need to put in a
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: ball and to sell it.
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  Speaker 2: You know what. It started early when I, you know,
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: when I had access to you know, the finding chancewers
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: to be able to really do skincare. I just really
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  Speaker 2: started a really good skincare routine for me and it
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  Speaker 2: just carries over. You know, this right here is what
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  Speaker 2: people see the most of and so I just want
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: to make sure it stays on point.
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  Speaker 1: Wow.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I don't wear a lot of makeup, So
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: this is just for the you know, for this particular situation. Wow,
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: have you always not worn a lot of makeup or honey?
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  Speaker 2: I was born in seventy three. My mother did not
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  Speaker 2: play that. My mother raised four girls, and one of
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  Speaker 2: the things that we could not do because like you
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  Speaker 2: raised in you know, a Christian household, no secular music,
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  Speaker 2: There was no makeup, that type of thing. So just
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  Speaker 2: it just you know, the seeds that have been sewn
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  Speaker 2: into me have grew into just not really caring to
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  Speaker 2: wear makeup because I like what I see in the
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: mirror when I look at me with no makeup. So
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  Speaker 2: I'm fine with that.
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  Speaker 1: I'm just gonna let that shit because somebody need to
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  Speaker 1: hear that, because we live in a society where I
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: think it's not just women, it's men that feel unless
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: we are able to assessorize ourselves, we don't feel comfortable
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  Speaker 1: in our skin.
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  Speaker 2: Let me tell you the only reason why I have
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: earrings right now is because my sister said that I
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: needed earrings. I don't do jewelry. I'm not really a
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  Speaker 2: fan of like the embellishments. I like to just I'm very,
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  Speaker 2: very simple when it comes to dress and things of
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: that nature. I become the peacock when I have to
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  Speaker 2: be a Diana Howard.
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  Speaker 1: M M. I love that you become the peacock when
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: you become a Deeda Howard. Now you've been able to
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  Speaker 1: sort of kind of I don't want to say, live
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: in both spaces, but you had to sort of employ
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: both spaces where there is a Deeda Howard the act
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: and then there's a Dena Howard the woman. What was
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: that like to manage bold?
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  Speaker 2: It's not something that I even think about. Honestly, it's
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: when it's time to turn it on and turn it on,
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: and when I turn it off, I turn it off.
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  Speaker 2: I think a lot of time because I, for me,
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  Speaker 2: I don't believe the hype. I didn't drink the kool aid.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: So I just go to work. That's all it is
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  Speaker 2: for me. I go to work, And what I know
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  Speaker 2: is when it's time to clock in, put the face on,
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  Speaker 2: put the costume, and put everything on that they want
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  Speaker 2: to see. Clock in, go to work, do what I
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  Speaker 2: have to do, and as soon as I'm done and
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  Speaker 2: I'm able to clock out, I'll clock out. It's not
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: something that I have to think about. I just do it.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: So because you were what twenty two when you made.
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: This, all I was let's see, it came out in
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  Speaker 2: ninety five, so I was twenty one. I was probably
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: twenty So.
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  Speaker 1: You were twenty one when Freak like Me came out. Now,
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  Speaker 1: did you have that same mentality that you were clocking
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: in and clocking out like that? You have that same
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: mentality that you have today or had you not really
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  Speaker 1: sort of evolved in a way where you could separate
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  Speaker 1: the act from the person.
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  Speaker 2: My mother always told me it's a job, show up
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  Speaker 2: and do what you're supposed to do. Show up one time,
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: get the job done. And so that's it's all I know.
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: And how did that song come about? Because you know,
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: I was a teenager when that song came out. But
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: you had did something that Salt and Pepper hadn't done.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: You had did something that Alatifa hasn't done. You had
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: done did something that MC like you had. You had
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  Speaker 1: did something that no female artist has done. You had
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  Speaker 1: created this song that created sexual liberation for many women
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  Speaker 1: at that time, right and being comfortable in your sexuality
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  Speaker 1: and then also verbalizing what it was that you wanted.
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  Speaker 1: How did that come about?
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  Speaker 2: My personality who I was at the time. It's interesting
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  Speaker 2: because my sisters and I, you know, my mother is
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  Speaker 2: for girls by ourself, So we lived in the father
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  Speaker 2: was household and being in a fatherless household, and finally,
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: like my mother, like I said, raising us in a
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  Speaker 2: very something I'm gonna say, a strict upbringing. When it
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: came to Christianity or whatever the case may be, I
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: think once I got a taste of sex, it was
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: just like, oh okay, I like this. And so just
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  Speaker 2: me being that person out there bless you me becoming that,
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  Speaker 2: you know, enjoying sex, promiscuous and just doing what I
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: wanted to do and how I wanted to do it.
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  Speaker 2: It just came about that way. My manager, you know,
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  Speaker 2: my former manager. He and I had conversations and he
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  Speaker 2: was like, okay, all right, I see what it is.
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  Speaker 2: And then R Kelly was out at the time, and
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  Speaker 2: of course Madonna was out at the time, and what
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  Speaker 2: they wanted was to take my personality and create a
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  Speaker 2: female R Kelly slash black Madonna. Wow, and you get
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  Speaker 2: a Diana Howard.
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  Speaker 1: Wow.
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  Speaker 2: Now, now when did you start doing music like professionally?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, because you know, you know, you're twenty one years
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  Speaker 1: old when this song will released, like you have your
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: sexual experience that opens your you know mind, and so
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: Pandora box has been opened. So it's like, man, I
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: really like this, and how do you go from really
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: liking this to now this is like, yo, I'm pinning
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: this down to be a song.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: Well, I didn't write the song. There were some guys
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: out of Baltimore, Maryland and management that wrote the song
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: based off of my personality because managers was like, look,
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  Speaker 2: this is who she is and this is how she is,
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: and this is what we're wanting to put out there
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: in the public. It's it's honestly, it's one of those
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: things that it was just meant to be. And I
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: tell people all the time, I didn't choose music. Music
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: chose me. And my mother used to like force me
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: to sing as a kid, and I'm trying to find
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: a better word than force, but that's pretty much what
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: she made me do. She she made me sing for company,
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: she made me sing inquir at church. And so it's
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: something that I've always been doing music. I've always been singing,
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: and somehow as I got older, people would find out
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: that I was a singer. They're like, oh, she sings,
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: and then people would just gravitate to me and want
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: to put me in the studio and record. And it
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: was just like okay, and I'll just record. I'll just
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: go work.
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: So how many takes did it take for that song?
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: You know? But that's a good question. I don't know.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: Interesting story though, So when we first did the demo,
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: it was like, Okay, this is you know, I can
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: do it. It's cool. And I remember being in New
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: York to officially record the song and I got to
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: a space where I didn't want to do it and
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: I was just and I don't know what came over me,
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: but it was a space where I was just like,
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: I don't think I want to do this, and management
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: was like, okay, you know we're here now, you know
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: we have to get this done. And it's just you know,
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: we did it again, show up having to go to work.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, were you shocked by the success of it?
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: You know what? Honestly, I'm still in the same spaces.
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: I'm not shocked, but I don't even know really how
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: to grasp the concept because my mother still asked me
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: to this day, has it hit you? And I'm like, now,
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: are you serious? He hasn't hit me thirty years later,
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: don't it's a job, a Dina. Come on, and I'm
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: gonna say this with all due respect, I bullshit you
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: not like it's a job. I don't know what. I
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: don't know how I'm supposed to feel about that. I mean,
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: it's my mother told me as a kid, you show up,
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: do what you're supposed to do, and it's I don't so.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm grateful for the success, but it's not like,
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: oh my god, I'm adena Howard it hasn't because at
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: the end of the day, what I know and the
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: experiences that I've had, people don't care that I'm Adena Howard.
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: I ain't paying their bills, i ain't writing them a check,
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: I'm not employing them. So a lot of times they're
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: be like okay, And I've had that experience multiple times before,
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: so it's kind of like, oh, okay, let me just.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: Well what what what I what I what I what
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: I talk about? You know, has it hit you? It's
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: just what you've been able to accomplish through it and
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: through the song, you know, because the Adena Howard or
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: doctor j these are just titles, right, So it's you know,
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: what I do as a therapist and a clinician and
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: speaker at all these different things. It's not who I am.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: It's part of me, but it's not who I am.
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: And I think that's probably the reason why is because
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: it's not who I am. It's just a part of
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: what I do. It's like, okay, it's adopt it's a
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: job title. It's just it's just what it is for me.
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: Yes, So in some way do you feel that that
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: has kind of kept you saying throughout this process?
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, not not drinking the kool aid. Yeah, not,
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: you know, believe in the hype that surrounds me or
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: surrounded me.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, and particularly for people in that industry who who
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: did not have the stability of thought right, and they
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: did not have the groundness, and they did not have
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: the foundation around what they were doing during that time.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: When you look back at it, are you are you
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: glad from the should? I say? Are you proud of
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: the decision that you made to be as you are
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: today in your fifties? Because there's some artists right that
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: started out with you, right, I mean, life has changed
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: for them, who they are has changed, and they weren't
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: able to sort of transition after the song was over
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: or the run was over. Are you proud of what
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: you've been able to do after the success of that song?
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: Absolutely? Absolutely. Longevity is the key, because every entertainer has
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: a shelf life, and so to be able to still
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: be here doing what I do thirty years later and
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: enjoying it more than I did when I first started,
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: really absolutely?
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: Why now what do you enjoy about it? Now?
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: This is more freedom, a lot more freedom. When I
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: first started in the industry, it was very structured, which
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: the industry is structured anyway, but it was a structure
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: that did not really allow me to enjoy it.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: It was.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: Get on the transportation, be it busts or plane, you know,
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: the car, get in, get in or on the transportation,
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: get to the hotel, get yourself together, you know, back
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: to the transportation, get on stage. Didn't get to hang around,
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: get back into the transportation either, get back to the
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: hotel to clean up, get back on the bus to
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: head to the next destination. So it was just a
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: boom boom boom, boom boom. I didn't get to see
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: the places that I that I traveled to. I didn't
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: get to meet the people who enjoyed my music. I
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: just got to see them from you know, stage level.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: And it was just the in and out, a constant
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: in and out, so there was there was really no connection.
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: And I think that's one of the reasons too why
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: it really hasn't hit me, because it's just like in
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: and out, in and out, and it's like, oh, okay,
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: you know, go to work, show up, dude, you're supposed
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: to do, be on time, get paid off to the.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: Next That's why it's a blue work.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, very much black yeah, you were.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: You weren't really present.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: No, not at all. And now I'm more present because
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: I get to see y'all, pay attention to the faces.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: I get to, you know, just really be in the
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: moment and communicate and connect, which is it's nice to
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: be able to connect.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: You know. I'm glad that you said that you get
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: to connect now because I think about age and often,
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: and I remember having this conversation with this old legitleman
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: that it was getting ready to transition, and one of
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: the things that we was talking about is I wanted
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: to know what mattered to him the most now that
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: he was getting ready to transition. And one of the
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: things he talked about he talked about the memories that
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: he were record and what was interesting that he can
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: only recall the things where he were present. And I
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: think that is what's really taking us out of life,
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: Like we are living longer, but our quality of life
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: is not there as human beings anymore, because.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: Everything is like moving so fast, moving.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: So fast, as you were saying earlier. And what I
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: realize is even in my own life personally, if you
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: don't slow life down, it won't ever slow down for you.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: Like you really have to slow life.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: Now you're in control of, you know, how fast and
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: slow things move, in control of your narrative and what
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: you want to have happened. I think that's part of
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: why I appreciate it so much more now, is because
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: now I'm in more control of how I do things,
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: not necessarily the personas so to speak, but just being
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: able to control how I move I you know, that
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: is that's one of the things that I appreciate more.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: And I'm again able to be present and have that
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: control to say, Okay, I want to slow it down, okay,
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: or I want to move you know, I want to
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: work a little bit more. I get to you know,
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: I get to gauge things and figure out how I
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: want to move forward.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And you and you really now you get to
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: decide for you rather than a decision being made for you.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: In it says is that is that like another level
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: of freedom for you? Absolutely as a woman.
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, I think as a human being in general, but
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: for sure. And I'm the firstborn, so being the firstborn
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: of my mother raising four girls and my dad having seven,
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: and always being told as a child, you're the matriarch,
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: which didn't know what that meant. At the time, but
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: I knew that there was a lot of responsibility and
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: I had sisters that I had to be, you know,
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: responsible for, so now to be able to have control
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: of my life and say yeah, to know maybe so, yeah,
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: a lot more freedom.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: You know. It's interesting because most of my work started
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: with girls in group homes and Falster care. That's how
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: I got started. And most of the girls were either
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: sex trafficking victims or victims of sexual abuse sexual assault.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: And here I was, as former football player that was
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: working with these girls, and I created this program, Don't
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: I went to sleep one night, woke up and started
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: writing and created an entire program, and these group homes
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: bought it. So I'm in these group homes working with
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: these girls, and most of them have had a traumatic
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: experience with the man by the age of thirteen and
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: fourteen years old. And when you talk about freedom, I
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: am thinking about most of these young girls their experience
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: with men, or with their perpetrators, or with those individuals
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: that had taken advantage of their innocent They often spoke
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: about decisions being made for them, and they felt like
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: they did not have a choice to their freedom, which
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: is the choice to choose.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: So when you're talking about freedom, there's something that leaps
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: on the inside of me that you get to experience
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: that now in this season of life. Bishop Jakes is
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: my mentor, and he told me he recently he said,
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: he said, you're in your forties. He said, grind until
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: you get to your fifties. And I need you to
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: ride the wave in your fifties. And I said, bous,
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: when did you truly start living? He said, in my fifties.
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: You feel the same.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: It's getting there, it's getting there. I'm riding. I'm riding
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: the wave because that's on enough seed.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: And you know, that's exactly what he said.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: I tell people all the time, the seeds you so
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: well grow, you know, because they say you read with yourself.
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: So the seeds have been growing, and you know, I'm
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: in that harvest where I'm able to coast a little
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: bit more.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah. What does that feel like for you?
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: Freedom? Yeah, it's peace. It's just really not having to
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: concern myself or worry and I don't worry anyway, but
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: not really having to concern myself with a great deal.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: Just be like, okay, just it is easy, preecy. Yeah,
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: just as long as I stay up the top of
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: my bills and do it I'm supposed to do, you know,
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: like they say, you do the things that you need
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: to do in order to do the things that you
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: want to do. And so I've done a lot of
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: what I needed to do so that I can do
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: what I want.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: Nowt fifty two year old data, What does she think
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: about twenty one of your data?
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: That's a good question. The twenty one year looking back
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: looking at her just you know, just trying to find
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: her way. Not the most secure individual. She was angry
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: for sure. You know, I've noticed a lot of posts
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: that say guys don't really like women. You know, they
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: use for what they want to use them for, but
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: they don't really like them. I was the same lay
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: with guys. I didn't really like him, didn't have much
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: respect for him. Just they served a purpose and that
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: was to pleasure me in that moment that I wanted
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: to use them for that and then it was like okay,
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: moving on to the next. So she was just out there,
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: you know, just living, being wild and just trying to
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: find her way.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, what do you think she was looking for?
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: That's a good question. What was she looking for She
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: was probably looking for the replacement for her dad because
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: he wasn't there, he didn't show up, being that he
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: was an addict, and so probably trying to find that love,
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: that acceptance because one of the things that I know
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: is abandonment and rejection. That's what I felt, you know,
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: even though I know now his story is his story
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: and it wasn't intentional. It was just he made the
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: choices that he made that led to him not being present.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: But I think that's probably you know, what it was,
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: was just trying to find that male figure to fill
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: that void.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, as you're talking the clinical side of me,
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: it goes back to thinking about the four types of
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: childhood wolves, trusts, guilt, abandonment, and the other one that
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: comes to me, Come on, doctor Jay, there's other one
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: that come come to me, guilt, trust, neglect, and abandonment
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: and guilt when when see the abandonment wold is such
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: a deep wold for children, and it's such a deep
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: wound because being abandoned in such a young age and
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: not having someone to fend for you and then and
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: not even just having someone to really guid you, it
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: creates trust issues absolutely and when you have trust issues,
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: it develops the guilt world, right, You feel guilty for
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: certain things, and you develop the guilt for someone else's guiltiness. Right,
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: so it's like, why am I feel guilty for what
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: they should have done? You know? And then you're dealing
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: with this neglect of not being tended, to not being
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: cared for. So when I'm asking you what was she
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: looking for? It's connected to the behavior in a sense.
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: And I'm not clinicalizing it at all. I can see it,
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: but you know, And this is why I love to
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: hear people's backstories to how they become, their stories, to
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: how they saw life, their stories, to how they even
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: perceive certain things, because it's usually associated with our experiences,
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: and particularly for daughters. What I saw in those young
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: girls is most of them that have been engaged with
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: any set actual activity or anything, it was usually connected
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: to a.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: Father of them.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: And they often would say the same thing a data
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: of life, why didn't dad love me? Or why didn't
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: Dad stay? And this is why I work with men,
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: and particularly for men who have daughters. And it suchs too,
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: because I think there's just something about a father what
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: he's able to kill to that.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: Daughter at the end of the day, it's but I
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: think a lot of times people fail to understand there's
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: a reason why man and woman create, you know, a
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: human being is because there's that balance there. And then
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: when one is absent being a mother and or a father, yes,
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: it creates an imbalance. Yes, And I've had to learn
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: that again. He made his choices, he has his story,
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: and whatever transpired in his life, you know, it happened
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: to carry over into ours, you know, when he decided
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: that he wanted to create, you know, with my mother.
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: So go into a space now where I'm like, well,
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: he has a story, and you know, if it weren't
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: for him being absent, I wouldn't be who I am.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: I would have had the experiences, you wouldn't have a
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: Diena Howard here on the podcast having this conversation.
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: Right, would you look at your other sisters, how's the
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: relationship with the rest of them them?
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: I love my sisters, Oh, I love my sisters. They
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: are I mean, one of the things that my mother
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: made sure was that she always instilled in us that
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: you are each other's best friends, period. And so if
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: we didn't ever have friends in this life, we have
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: each other. But I adore my sisters.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: What were their thoughts when, like you were, you know,
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: Adena Howard and the.
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: Music and got to ask them? I don't know. I've
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: never asked them. I know I've not known because for me,
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: it's always been a job. You know, it just so
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: happens to put me in the spotlight. And fame is
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: not something that I desire anyway. It's not something that
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: I am. I have to accept it, but it's not
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: some thing I necessarily embrace. But I think that you know,
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: they're very proud. I can definitely tell you that, very
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: very proud, very supportive, and it helped them in so
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: much shape from her fashion, for sure.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: Yo, I was asking you about what fifty two year
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: old a data thought about the twenty one year old.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: Now let's step back into the twenty one year old. Okay,
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: if she's looking at the fifteen year old, what does
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: she saying about you.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: The fifteen or the fifty ten, I mean, the twenty
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: one year old, what does she said about the fifty
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: two year old? Damn bitch, come through, am you did that?
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: She would be very proud, very very proud, just to
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: see the success, to see the fact that she's an
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: overcomer that in spite of she didn't you know, she
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: didn't like buckle, she didn't fold, she didn't one of
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: the things that my dad says, you can you can
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: slow me down, but you can't hold me down, you know.
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: And so there were some moments where I had to
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: be slowed down. But it made sense, you know. And
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: so to just see that I'm an overcomer, to see
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: that in spite of I'm still here. I'm still standing,
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: you know, and the you know, the wounds or whatever,
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: it's part of the journey. Yeah, Well, what was the
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: one thing that you had to heal from on this journey?
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, the father wound. And I'm still in
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: that process. Though I have a better relationship with my
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: dad than I did when I was younger. I'm not
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: as angry as I used to be, because again, I
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: understand that we all have a story, and I think
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: that's one of the things that children failed to pay
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: attention to. Our parents have a story, you know, and
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: it's not always about us, even though when we're coming
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: this story, it's all about me. You know, you had me.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: I didn't ask to be here. At the end of
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: the day. They it's like they have a story. They
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: have their own wounds, they have you know, they have
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: things that they haven't healed from. And so having a
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: better understanding as to you know what all of all
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: of it is just a piece to the puzzle to
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: make the whole to you know, to bring the whole
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: picture together. And so that's you know, that's where I
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: am right now.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I usually say to my mom, is that the
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: older I'm getting, I understand you better as a woman. Yeah,
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: and beyond my mother, and I think the older that
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: we get, we begin to see our parents as.
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: People exactly, and not just parents and not just parents.
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: So I have a song that I just released called
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: I Overstand, And so I'm having an overstanding even though
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: I don't have children, I do I overstand. You know
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: that our our lives from the moment that we arrived,
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: it's all been shaped molded by you know, our experiences
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: and the people who have poured into listen to people
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: who have taken from us, and so on and so forth. So, yeah,
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: did you ever walk children?
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: MM?
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: One of the things was business over babies? Okay, business
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: over babies okay? Unpacked that because because because we're in
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: a season.
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: Where you know women are doing that thing, and that
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: thriving study shows women are waiting later in life to
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: have children. Women are pursuing their careers, and I'm all
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: for it. And I never heard that was that's a
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: newer of business over babies. That's a new one. So
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: unpack that.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: For me ninety five, being an artist in the nineties,
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: you had to make a choice. It was either career
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: or family. And my mother raising for girls by herself,
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: and her sharing some of her story with me, you know,
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: when I was able to comprehend, kind of put me
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: in a space of like, I'm good, no, and just
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: kind of knowing somewhat of her struggle. You know, it
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: was just like, nah, I'm cool on the baby bit. Yeah,
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: And I'm you know, at fifty two and not having
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: any children. I love babies. So I love babies. I
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: think they're so adorable. And one of the things that
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: I've always wanted to do was volunteer as a cuddler.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: I would love to cuddle babies in the hospital and
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: the nikkis that's something that you know, I've wanted to
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: do for a very long time because I love babies.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: But having my own. I can barely take care of
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: a plant, you know. So I'm like I used to
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: growing up. My mother adopted a little one, and I
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: was you know, I was the one who changed her,
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: fed her, bathed her. And so I've gotten that, you
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: know that in me, But business and I have the
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: freedom to be able to get up and go. Like,
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: if I had a child right now, my mother would
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: probably be here because she would be the one watching
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: I would have, you know, because now you know, people
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: can afford to have the nannies, they can have people,
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: you know, and then the industry is open now for
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: females to be able to be mothers, you know, to
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: be able to have families, and they can bring them
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: on stage and they can do all of this stuff.
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: I wasn't afforded that growing up in this industry. So
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: and they kind of kept you in that train of thought. Absolutely, yeah, absolutely.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: What would you say to the woman that is choosing
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: business over babies and unconsciously right because she's locked in,
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: she's focused. What would you want to say to her?
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: Because you know, being in the space that I am,
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: I'm the only boy, So I grew up around women
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: and I have sisters, My mom has twelve sisters. Yeah, no,
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: not nice at all.
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: I mean that's like that because at the end of
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: the day, you're you know, you're surrounded by well, I'm
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: surrounded by love.
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: So I so I have I have a I have
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: an understanding about women that most guys don't have the
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: level of wisdom that I've obtained just sitting and listening.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: But there's often a shame around women who have achieved
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: and have not had kids. And I remember saying to
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: this guy once, I was like, the woman gets his
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: deside if she wants to be a mother or not,
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: No different than the dad gets to decide if the
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: man gets to decide if he wants to be a dad.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: Like me personally, I don't like, I don't define a
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: woman by her not having children. I define her by
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: the life that she chose to live. Makes sense, you
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: know what I mean? Because it's not for everybody.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: It's not not to say all the time just because
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: you can't don't mean that you should.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: Come on.
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: You know, we can all do a lot of things,
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: but should we be doing them? Are we do? We
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: have the capacity to be that and do that. And
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: I know for me and plus if I choose to
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: have a child. I want, I want the whole package.
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: I want the husband, I want the father. You know,
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: because if I wanted to just have a child, I
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: could go adopt one. I could have been a baby
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: mama easily if that was the case. But it's unfair
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: to the child, yes, to not have both parents. Yes,
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: And it creates and imbalance when there's not both and
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: you're not choosing healthy either, because you can still have
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: a parent both parents. But then if you're not choosing wisely,
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: then you're still creating a conundrum for the child. And
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: I know for me when I was younger, the guy
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: served one purpose and it was not to be a father.
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: I was not trying to make daddies. I was just
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: trying to you know, practice, you know, waste the seed
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: and keep moving. That's what it was. Skating. Let's go, Brothers,
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: don't be offended. She's just telling the truth. So, I mean,
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: that's all they were good for in that moment because
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: I wasn't again the capacity. I didn't have the capacity
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: to want to be in a relationship, and I didn't
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: have the time to be in a relationship. I was
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: all over the place, like physically mentally, spiritually, I was
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: just all over the place.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: Listen. I respect that so much because adena I have
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: to sit and listen to people because I'm not practicing
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: full time, but I still see people virtually. I have
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: to sit and help people process their inability to deserve
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: or to desire or in some way come to this
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: awakening that they don't have the capacity. There's a lot
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: of will, but you simply don't have the capacity. So
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: I can honor somebody saying listen, I would love to,
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: but I just don't have the capacity. And I think
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: we need more people to have that ability, to have
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: that level of thinking that says, hey, listen, I don't
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: have the capacity. Even though it's been deemed as this
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: societal sort of achievement. You gotta get married, you gotta
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: have the family, you got to have the house, you
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: gotta have the car, you got to have the six
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: figure career. And I'm watching people who are literally dying.
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: They're failing at it because at the end of the day,
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: they're trying to keep up with, you know, a society
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: that says this is what it's supposed to be, and
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: it's like, oh, well, who said Zoe? And then and
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: for who. You know, if it's if it works for you, great,
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: And I'm the type of person. I'm not an or person.
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: I'm an a person, So I want this and that.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: But going back to the question when it comes to
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: the women, you know, deciding business over babies, again, you
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: have to do what you need to do in order
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: to do what you want to do later. So if
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: it is something that you would like to do eventually,
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: then sow the seed, you know, get the foundation for
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: you know, the business, the success that you desire, and
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: then you know, as you go along in your journey,
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: if that's one of the destinations, you'll get there. It's
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: just do what you have to do first. But just
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: know that at some point in time, if you're so
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: focused on business, you your wound may become geriatric. And
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: that's a whole nother to do because you know, they
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: tell us our wounds are geriatric, but what by the
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: time of the art.
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thirty five, thirty five is a geriatric pregnancy.
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: So you know, and I know, I'm I'm I'm at
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: this point, I'm senior, like I'm so this my I'm
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: damn near past being able to So at fifty two,
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: it's like start considering adoption if you if that's what
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: you want. But like I said, it's right now you
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: have to be an or person if you're building. But
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: then once you achieve that goal, you can then be
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: an and person. I want this and that, but right
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: now you have to be the or.
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: Listen. I want to pause right there because that that
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: that that is a what we do over here. That
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: that is a car's terri moment where I have to
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: tear the cars like and it's a season. You have
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: to be a or person. Once you get to where
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: you want to go, you can become the ad person.
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: That is so profound because most people have it backwards.
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: It can't be aired in a season where it has
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: to be or absolutely you either got to choose this
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: or that. Oh my god, that's so profound. I'm sitting here.
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: My brain is like, man, I can teach that thing
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: because I've watched so many people they're backwards and it's like, no,
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: it can't be or right now, I mean it can't be.
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: It has to be or you have to make a choice.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: And I think, you know, I have this conversation all
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: the time with guys and it's like, man, you know
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: ain't nobody chose her because she had no kid? And
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: I'm like, brother, every woman is not on that plane.
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: There are some women that are on a different trajectory
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: where they their career does take precedents. And there are
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: some women where it says like I never wanted that,
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: and that's okay. Exactly if you could speak to the
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: women this is your camera right here. But if you
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: could speak to that woman who's at that place where
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: it's like, no kids, they're successful, what would you say
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: to her?
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: Girl, You better live your life living like as ULI
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: go then, because it's you know what, I am at
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: peace with not having children. I'm at peace coming home
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: to just no one being there. I'm at peace with
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: not having to clean up after kids, you know, after
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: a whole grown ass adult, I can just come home
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: and I'm at peace. And if that's where you are,
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: it is okay to just be with you and yourself
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: and feel no guilt, feel no shame, because if you're
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: at peace with it, then that's where you're supposed to be.
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: That's exactly where you're supposed to be.
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: And I love that you share that. It's okay because
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: Maya just recently came out said she never desired to
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: be married.
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: Maya really, well, let me say this, no, no, no, no,
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: let me don't don't reach track, no, no, only track.
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: I want to go.
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: I want to go deeper. I want to unpack that.
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: It's I think it's overrated because it's expected. And I
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: know when I got married it wasn't for the right reasons.
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: I was in survival mode. I wasn't in a space
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: where I truly wanted to be with that person because
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: it was like, yeah, oh now, don't get me wrong.
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: It was a perfect fit for that moment because it
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: was survival mode, so it was perfect for that. But
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: outside of that, to me, it was overrated because I
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: don't really know what it's supposed to do for a person,
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: what is supposed to bring. I'm at peace where I
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: am right now. If I do have someone come into
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: my life and we you know, we're in alignment environment
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: where you know it's a partnership. You know, I'm I'm game,
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: but I don't. I don't. For me, I don't feel
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: like it has to be paper. And I know people say,
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: you know, the Covenant and this and that, and you know,
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: they start to get biblical, but at the end of
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: the day, I'm like, you know what, it's overrated because
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: I know that there are a lot of married I
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: should say a lot of single married people, you know,
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: And there are a lot of people who are in
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: relationships that are married and they're they're you know, it's like, okay,
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: so you know, there are couples who aren't married, but
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: they're they're functioning at a capacity where it's working. But
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: the minute that they sign some paper and they do it,
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: then it's all of a sudden it falls apart, and
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: it's it's something falls apart. I think there's a mindset
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: that comes with it. There's a mindset that comes with it.
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: There's an expectation, unrealistic expectation or unvoiced expectations. And I think,
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: and I tell people all the time, expectations were in relationships,
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: especially those who have those that have not been vocalized,
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: you know. And so but I just think for me,
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: it's unless it's a line, it's a line that's what
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: God says, this is the person for you, and I
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: want you to be married, then okay. But other than that, I'm.
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: Just like you, as you was talking off thinking about
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: the meme where the lady says for me to get married,
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: God like to come in my room and say, hey,
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: my home boy, try to my son trying to get
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: at you. Say, God is going to have to come
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: out of the sky he himself and said, hey, this
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: is him, this is her, this is yeah.
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: Like, because I have to respect that, because I you know,
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: when it comes to comes to that at this point
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: in time in my life, I'm just like, well, let
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: me just say this. My choices haven't been the greatest,
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: you know, based on just maybe not being in the
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: right space again capacity, you know, just you know, still
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: dealing with trust issues. Sometimes I trust too much when
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: I shouldn't trust, you know, and then ego may get
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: in the way I can do this, you know, and
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: it's really noticing, you know. And then mankeeping. I'm just
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: really tired of man keeping, you know, having to you know,
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: keep him in the space of being okay, you know,
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: keep him fed and keep it. I'm tired of the
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: man keeping, the housekeeping. Like I got enough to do
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: with me, and you know, I need to focus on
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: me and make sure that at the end of the day,
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: I'm kept spiritually, mentally, physically, emotionally, you know, financially and
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: you know, and the sexual part comes into it as well,
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: but I know that that has to be set to
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: the side because everything else is a lot more important
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: than that. And I've grown to that space to say,
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: you know what, as much as I love me, so, man, meat,
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: I'm going to have to just pause for a cause
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: on let's not well, if not working right now, just
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: pause on the man meat, Okay, just let's be still
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: even had enough for or for you know, to hold
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: you over. Yeah, you know, so I'm just in that
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: space now.
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: I'm like, this's just so she said, man, meet Pauls, Pauls,
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: because I already know CJ's looking over here, like Paul's dude,
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: Pauls A pause a year just in case. So what
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: you say in this season of your life, as you
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: are enjoying you, as you are enjoying this level of
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: freedom that you never had in your career, but also
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: there's a part of you that's still growing and learning,
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: which you say you're in a healing phase right now.
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: I am. Yeah, I am, and I'm I'm healing and discovering. Yeah,
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: because I don't think you ever you'll ever know yourself
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: in totality, because it's not until you experience certain things
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: in life that you recognize who you are and what
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: you will do. You know, something has to happen to
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: trigger a certain aspect of you to be able to
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: respond to that. And so I'm you know, healing and discovery.
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what has a healing been like for you? What
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: does it journey been like?
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: Has it It's been chill. It's been like, you know,
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: I'm one, Like I have conversation with God all the time,
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: and so it's like, Okay, what is it that you
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: need me to do? What is it that you want
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: me to do? Where am I supposed to go? How
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: am I supposed to get there? And you know, what's
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: going on with me? Like why am I feeling this way?
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: And to just be able to be in a space
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: where it's not pushed, it's not you know, I'm not
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: being egged to just like get it done, get it done.
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: I'm moving at my own pace, accepting the things that
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: need to be accepted, disregarding the things that make no
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: sense that don't work for me. So it's been it's
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: been chill.
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: I've have you know, like any moments, any moments that
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: make you cringe when you discovered or why you discover something.
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't necessarily say it makes me cringe, but I'm like,
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: damn for real, like is this what you know? You
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: did that? Why did you do that? I question? You know,
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: I have conversation with myself a lot, and I answer.
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: I'm one to answer because one of the things that
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: I know when I ask myself a question, if I'm
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: asking me a question, then I know I have the answer.
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: And so just you know, having those moments where there's
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: that enlightenment, I'm like, oh, that's interesting, Well why did
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: you do that, you know, and how did it make
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: you feel? And so, you know, I get answers and
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: then i'm you know, kind of guiding myself alone. But
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: I don't think I've had any cringe woments because at
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: the end of the day, I'm like, well, the what's
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: supposed to be, you know, it's it's life. It's gonna
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: happen how it happens. You make your choices based off
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: of you know, so you make decisions based off of choices,
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: and it's like, okay, well you made that decision based
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: off of that choice wasn't the best one, yeah, but
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: it is what it is.
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: And also you make choices based off the information that
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: you had at that time. Absolutely, and the only way
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: the choice change information has changed. Y'all cares that your
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: choices don't change until the information changes, because you cannot
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: make better decisions until you have better information. And I
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: think for us within the black community, a lot of
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: choices are made off of information that's not good for us. Absolutely,
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: and that's that's both men and women.
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: You know, I want to transition because recently you you
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: were spotted singing a gospel saw.
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: As my stomachers growling, Can y'all hear that?
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: So you're spotted singing a gospel saw? And to some
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: it's a shock because it's like this is Dale Howard singing.
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: I think, was it amazing grace? Yes, singing amazing grace,
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: but not realizing that your background is church. Now in
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: this season of your life, is Christian or gospel or
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: faith based? I don't know the genre that they have
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: in the music industry, like it is that pulling you
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: more right now in this season your life?
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: No, No, not at all. When I see when I
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: sing love songs to God, I just it's just for us.
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: I don't care to do it for the world to hear,
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: because it's not for the world to hear, It's for
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: my God to hear me sing and then keep it moving.
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: But if it's something that that is presented to me, maybe,
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: but I'm just really I could see you doing I
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: could see you cutting a single, so I'll overstand is
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: more of an inspirational song. So I like inspirational music.
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: One of my inspirations. One of my my what's the
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: word she? Because she's Why wouldn't I say say idle?
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: But someone that I looked up to influences CC Winings.
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: I love beating in CC Winings growing up. So listening
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: to them growing up was because it was it was
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: love songs to God, but it wasn't so gospel in
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: you you know what I mean, And a lot of
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: people got upset about that when they first started saying
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: people were hottest fish glass right, But it was something
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: that opened the world up to be able to like
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: gravitate to that without it being you know, so gospel
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: and so you know what I mean.
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Tambourines c b CC had folks confused, man, because
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: I remember hearing this song when I was a kid.
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: I was like, is this gospel sound more like R
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: and B. But they but they added a different sound
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: that made gospel music not only catchy, but made gospel
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: music you know. And SRI's a way exactly more palatable
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: to where you was like, you know what, I can
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: rock with that, you know, and I can remember what
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: was this song? All I wanted.
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: To do just explain why do I feel the way
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: you do? What they listen?
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: I thought that was a love song.
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: It is see.
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: Love song of Jesus. Absolutely, and I'm like, because you know,
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: when you first hear it, I was like, dang, somebody
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: getting at work. They singing to somebody. Man, you know
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: what I mean.
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: I was getting that work, That's what was absolutely, But.
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: It was such a beautiful, like display of love toward
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: God in such a different way. That wasn't the old
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: hymns exactly because I grew up in the South, so
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: most of the songs that I learned in church were
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: struggle songs.
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, how I made it?
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: You know. It's like, man, so I can really appreciate
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: you know, what you're doing. What I overstand because I
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: think there is something to be said about music and
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: the inspiration of faith based or whatever you want to general.
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: You want to place it in for music to be
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: palable to where people can digest it. Because I think
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: that there's nothing worse than an antiquated sort of framework
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: on how we do things. And that's where we have
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: been for many years in the black churches.
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: I think, and I think religion in general. See, I'm
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: not a religious person. I'm a relationship person.
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: It's funny you say that, because that is Buller was
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: just here, former WWE wrestler. He said the same thing.
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: He said, I'm not a religious person. I'm a relationship person.
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: How have how has your faith played a role in
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: your journey?
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: My goodness, it helps me stay sane. My faith has
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: helped me make better decisions. It's really just help me
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: stay you know, centered and grounded. Not really again, drinking
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: the kool aid and getting caught up in the hype
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: and recognizing that, okay, you have a responsibility, it's helped.
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: It's definitely helped me sure me as well. Yeah, recognizing
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: that I have a responsibility not just to myself, but
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: to those who have a tendency to want to gravitate
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: to me and help me recognize the influence that I
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: have because when I was younger, I was like, I
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: don't give a damn. I'm not raising anybody's kids. To
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: say my responsibility I am. I'm doing me. I'm living
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: my life. I have a career and I'm not going
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: to tailor it to help you raise your kids. That's
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: not my job.
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: So what you're saying is that if some pairent walked
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: in and they son or daughter was listening to your music,
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: that wasn't your problem.
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: No, Because what I know is when I grew up,
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: if my mother didn't want us listening to certain music,
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: it wasn't played in the household. Don't make me, don't
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: don't hold me accountable for you raising your child. That's
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: not my responsibility.
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: Period. Now if they come and if I see them
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: in person, they happen to run up on me say
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: oh my gosh, you know I love the music. Da
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: da da da da, then I may have some words like,
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: first of all, what are you going to listen to
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: my music? And why?
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: You know, and you know, and have that kind of
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: conversation where it's like, okay, so where are you, you know,
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: in your journey? What are you doing over to your
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: grades and things of that nature. I may, you know,
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: sow some seed, but for the most part, that's not
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: my responsibility to raise your child. Not I don't have
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: any she says, not her responsibility.
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: Listen. I love it because I think sometimes we can
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: try to delegate that to, you know, other people when
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: it comes to our parent and not realizing that, yeah,
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: children will be children, because you would hear that right often, well,
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: children won't be children, but there's a responsibility there on
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: the parent that, while they may be children, what is
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: the structure or what is the order that you have
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: in your home and the standard in your place? Because
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: like I said, when we're mopping up the show, when
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: I heard the song, I was sneaking and listening to it,
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: right because my dad was like, no, y'all ain't listening
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: to that music, you know what I mean. So and
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: then by the time I heard T Shirt and panted,
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: I was in college. You know this is like, I mean,
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: how old were you made T shirty pennies?
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: T shirt and paints at that point I think I
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: was probably like twenty three, twenty four.
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: So that came after freak, Like yes, wow, now was
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: that written by somebody else.
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: Or was that Jamie Fox? Wrote that song.
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: Jamie Fox wrote that song.
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: Jamie Fox, He sure did.
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: Man, I remember, yeah, because isn't he on the intro?
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: He's that's his voice and the intro.
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: Man, Listen, I got a good memory, CJ. I got
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: a good memory. I remember being at Taunton State University,
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: and this is when DJ Shrew used to sell CDs
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: and most of my homeboys coming from Houston, and they
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: used to chopping Shrew music and they chopped and screwed
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: T shirt and panti to all of my college teammates.
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: Y'all know we were jamming at T shirt and panties
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: chopped and shrew. Man, Yes, oh remember that? Oh you
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: remember that.
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: I remember that because that was the first time I
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: ever heard of chopping screw and I was like, what
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: the hell did they do to my soul?
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: Man?
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: That was but especially here in Texas, in Texas, what
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: y'all do in Texas? That T shirt and panties chopped
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: and shrew?
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh with that baseline hidden, Oh my gosh.
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: Man, But yeah, he having flashbacks now. Listen. I slanger
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: man me like it wasn't nothing. It was my last
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: my playlist.
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: Listen, man, I had so DJ DJ Screw used to
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: do what they call f actions. That's what that was
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: the name of the CD. F Action and T shirty
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: party has to be on. Was it like f Action
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: twenty This is I remember it had to be build
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: f Action twenty. Let me see. I'm telling you, man,
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: I'm telling you, I'm gonna put this up.
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: Wow. I just remember, like I said, T shirt and
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: pants chopped because I never heard of choppin screw before
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: until you know T shirt and painties in Texas. Like yeah,
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: oh yeah, you say chopped the screw, you automatically think Texas.
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: Oh that had us in a chokehold do you hear me?
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: Everybody was trying to get the CD on college cap Man,
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: Oh my god. I could call some of my teammates
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: right now, be like T shirt and pants chopped, screw
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: that bigga like go crazy. They would go crazy. I
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: cannot tell you how many times, my oh boy, this
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: dude would have a girl over, this food would go by.
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: This was like they had the cheap candles.
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: Man, that waxes.
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: This wax. This wax was so toxic you could smell
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: it when it was burning. Well, have candles all over.
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: I walked to and all I heard T shirt and
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: pass throwing it it. Man, I got a little something
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: I'm coming through. Man, Man, give us you gonna get
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: because he had all the food. Man gets what you
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: gonna get. Man, it's just all my guys to break
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: so back, bring back so many memories.
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: Man.
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: So, I didn't know you wrote that right after Free
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: I mean that that song was produced right after that.
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. It was on the second album, and the second
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: album was called Welcome to Fantasy, Allen. It wasn't ever
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: released at the time. They just released it a couple
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: few years ago. Yeah, they had shelved it for a while.
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: So Adeita Howard, you're fifty two years old. You look amazing.
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: You started this skincare of routine that has benefited you
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: in such a great way to where you're gonna look
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: a day over thirty. You look amazing.
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: Now receive it. Yes, I do.
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: So. So you you have something that you created called
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: she EO, right, talk about that.
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: So. She EO is an agency that is specifically dedicated
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: to established female talent in the entertainment industry because we
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: have a tendency, especially those of us that are seasoned
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: in the industry we've been in it for a while,
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: we have a tendency to be overlooked, and a lot
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: of us have difficulty pivoting and we may not necessarily
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: have the tools as well to be able to pivot
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: or to be able to manage our careers, et cetera
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: effectively and efficiently. So that's where she EO comes in.
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: We provide the tools to be successful in the entertainment industry.
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: Wow, I love that that that that is critical for
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: those who are navigating not just life after the life during.
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: So no that that that is awesome. And also you're
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: celebrating thirty.
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: Years thirty some changes in counting.
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: Thirty years ago you made that song, man, and I
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: ain't gonna ask you how you feel, because you could
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: keep telling me it's a bloy.
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: You know what. I'm grateful. I'm truly grateful that I've
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: had the longevity and to look at clothes. Bailey and
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: Tianna Taylor and Meghan the Stallion actually take that song
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: and utilize it in their music. But whether they know
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: me or not, they were they've you know, put a
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: piece of history in their music and they're keeping you know,
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: the song alive and reintroducing me to the world. Yes,
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: so I'm not going anywhere.
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, y'all, y'all need to get to know this amazing system. Adita,
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: how you've got to pay homage to history. Now. So
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: when you think about your journey as it's sum up
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: like and just one word, what comes.
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: In your mind overcomer, overcomer, overcomer.
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, as an overcomer, how do you.
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: Feel blessed and marinated in divine favor?
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: Still blessing?
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, because at the end of the day, if
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: I had not overcome, I don't know where I would be. Yeah,
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: it's being an overcomer shows me I'm stronger than I
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: ever thought I possibly could or would be. That I
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: have drive, dedication and determination to continue to move forward.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: You know, in order to overcome, you have to just
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: you know, put certain doubts out of your head. And
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: even if you do have them, you just have to say,
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: you know what I can do it to have faith
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: in myself, to know that I'm able and capable of
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: making it, to have the capacity that word again, that
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: the capacity to keep moving forward in spite of.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: Listen, I love it.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: I think what I loved about this interview is the
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: grace that you.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: Have on your life. And because you're an overcomer and
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: you start off saying earlier that you didn't drink the
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: kool aid, you were able to maintain your certainty, dignity, foundation,
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: mental health and just like you the stableness of your mind.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: There are moments where I was not stable. There were
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: moments where there was you know, if I had moments
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: where if you ever heard overstaying, there's there moments was
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: like I had, you know, suicidal thoughts came to my
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: brain for just a brief moment. But then I was like,
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm not I'm not that brave. I don't
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: have that kind of courage to take my life. And
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: I have to grow through what I'm going through. You
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: know this it serves a purpose. Like you know, they
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: say your tests are your testimonies, and I know that
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: at the end of the day, I have, you know,
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: a testimony. I'm here for a reason, and I'm going
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: through what I'm going through for a reason. It's just like,
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: grow through it, get past. They don't call it growing
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: pains for nothing.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: You know, the can't grow without the brain of it.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: Unfortunately, Fortunately you know you have to and what I
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: recognize also is that it's a lot of what I
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: went through, a lot of what I'm going to go through,
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: because as long as I'm living, I'm going to be
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: going through something and I have to grow through it.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: It's not just about me. It's about making sure that
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: I'm relatable, because someone is going to approach me at
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: some point in time in life and say X, Y
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: and Z, you know whatever it is that they may
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: be going through with the time, and they're going to
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: be led to me for a reason, and I'm going
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: to be able to comfort them because I'll be able
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: to relate against I overstand and I think you know,
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: every time we go through something in life, it's not
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: just for you. It's for those who's you know, who's passed.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: You'll cross eventually and you'll have some effect on them
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: in some way shape from a fashion.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this has been beautiful. I again want to say
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: thank you to your team and to yourself for sitting down.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: And what I loved about this is that we got
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: to hear from all different parts of you, childhood music,
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: who you are today, who you want to become, and
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: even when you are today. I think so many times
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: when we are sitting down with people I know. For me,
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: my goal and my objective is always to extract moments
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: where people can share part of the story that encourages
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: someone else. And what I love about your journey is
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: that you may have known me because of this, but
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: today you're reintroducing yourself as this woman who has overcome,
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: a woman who now says, I get it, I overstand
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: a woman who is now saying that my father's story
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: was his story, but I'm now rewriting my own story.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: I think that's powerful because so many times people are
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: navigating through mental health challenges just through the challenges of life.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: As I say, mental health is just life and motion. Absolutely,
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: that's what it is. It's life in motion because if
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: you alive mental health.
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: Is you're going to be affected in somewhere shaping from
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: a fashions this life is happening in real.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: Time, and it's happening for you. Just say, life is
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: life and for everybody in some way, shape, fashion or full.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: Absolutely it's happening.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: But how you respond to it is always going to
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: be contingent upon the tools that you have. If you
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: don't have any tools, you will be reactionary. But if
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: you have tools you'll know how to respond. The last
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: question I always asks each es what is healing for you?
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: When you think about that word healing, what does that
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: mean to you?
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: Peace? It means peace because I feel like when you're
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: not healed, when you're going through it, there's a disturbance.
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: You know, there's some upheaval, there's some chaos. And for me,
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: healing means peace, overcoming the drama, the trauma, you know,
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: and being able to sit in that space and of
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: gratitude and just saying, Okay, I'm good, I've survived this,
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: I've overcome this. I'm now not trying to I'm not
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: questioning a lot. I'm not disturbed. You know, my groove
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: isn't being disturbed by the shenanigans. I'm not putting extras
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: on it. I'm just I'm easy. I'm at peace.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: Listen, you heard it from Adda Howard. Healing is peace.
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: What does healing mean for you? And we all have
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: different meanings for healing based off where you are in
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: your life. I often say healing for me is touching
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: the things that you would rather put gloves on to
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: pick up or the touch, because sometimes healing means going
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: into the trevices and into the dark spaces and into
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: the corners, into the areas that we really don't want
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: to go into. But you can't get to peace until
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: you go through the chaos of healing. Because if I'm honest,
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: healing is an ugly business. It's not cute, it's not pretty.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: It's not running through a bed of flowers. As we
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: see you on Instagram where people are reading the journals
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: and I'm healing and I'm drinking tea. That's not healing.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: Healing is disrupted, and sometimes it can be destructive because
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: you've got to address the ugliness that you have covered
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: up and make up that you covered up in jewelry,
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: that you covered up in all of the other accessories
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: that aa Adida talked about in the beginning, how she
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: doesn't like accessory, but healing is saying, I'm not going
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: to put a band aid on it. What are you
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: going to do? Listen, This healing community is a community
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: of people. Even myself. Every conversation that I have with
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: the guests, it heals a part of me. And I
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: think what I've just experienced here is the freedom to be.
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: I think it's so difficult, difficult for us as we
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: are aging to find freedom to be because sometimes our
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: freedom is stuck in our childhood. The freedom is stuck
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: in the little boy, stuck in the little girl, and
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: the adult is fighting. But until you go back and
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: visit that little boy, little girl where those childhood wounds begin,
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: you're always wish for freedom rather than actually living in it. So,
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: Mster Dina Howard, I want to say thank you for
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: the opportunity to sit down with a legend, to sit
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: down with someone who changed our childhood because when her
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: song hit the air, everybody was grabbing their.
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: Pearls like ooh, what is this?
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: But also in that moment, I think the world was
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: shifting to allow women to express how they felt about
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: their sexuality and also given it a voice that they
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: too could talk about what they desire. So again, thank
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: you for joining the healing community. I just want to
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: say thank you for speaking to the women in the
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: part where you shared about business over babies. I really
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: know because I know so many women that are in
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: that space where they feel like, what do I choose
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: in this moment?
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: Do you do first?
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: I want you looking at the camera, tell it's important,
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: choose you first? Listen. I want to say, take care
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: of yourself, continue your healing journey whatever you may be,
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: because healing is not linear. It's not linear, but what
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: it can be. It can be liberated when you begin
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: to set free your mind from the traumas and the
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: restraints that has been attached to your negative experiences. And
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: as I say in closing each episode, healing is a
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: journey and wholeness is the destination. And until next time,
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: here well just here with Doctor J, a production of
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: the Black Effect Podcast Network. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: to your favorite shows, and you can follow me at
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: King J. Barnett on Instagram and x and follow us
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: on YouTube. Just here, Doctor J.