Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #774 Grumbles With the Grandies

Transcript

#774 Grumbles With the Grandies · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

0:03
Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the
0:07
Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.
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Speaker 2: Now, my guess is that many of these parents were
0:14
Speaker 2: really hard on this stuff when they were younger, and
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Speaker 2: has heard it. I had my emphasis in all the
0:19
Speaker 2: wrong places.
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Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum
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Speaker 1: and dad.
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Speaker 2: Hello, Welcome to the Happy Famili's podcast. My name's doctor
0:26
Speaker 2: Justin Coulson. I'm here with Kylie, my wife from m
0:28
Speaker 2: to our six kids, and today we're answering your questions.
0:31
Speaker 2: You can email us podcasts that's podcasts with an s
0:34
Speaker 2: podcasts at happy families dot com dot you. Josh shot
0:38
Speaker 2: us through an email. Sorry, Kylie, I milit said a
0:41
Speaker 2: text message. It's still long for a text message an email,
0:44
Speaker 2: and I want to read it to you. This is
0:46
Speaker 2: a topic that we don't really talk about much on
0:48
Speaker 2: the podcast, and I don't know why. It's becoming increasingly
0:51
Speaker 2: relevant in our lives. And it's something that we've talked
0:54
Speaker 2: about in the four walls of our home a lot,
0:57
Speaker 2: usually with size and eye roll. It has to do
1:01
Speaker 2: with our parents, it has to do with grandparenting. So
1:05
Speaker 2: let me read Josh's email. He said, in my family,
1:08
Speaker 2: I've noticed that when a set of grandparents first became grandparents,
1:12
Speaker 2: caring for the grandchild was like whitewashing in Tom Sawyer.
1:17
Speaker 2: The parent would say, it's a privilege for you to
1:19
Speaker 2: fly down from Sydney to care for my child, and
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Speaker 2: the grandparent would say, yes, it's so wonderful. Now though
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Speaker 2: eight years later, with more grandchildren around, they're less reliable.
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Speaker 1: E g.
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Speaker 2: The parent will say, can you babysit from two to
1:33
Speaker 2: four while I'm working at home? And the grandparent shows
1:36
Speaker 2: up at three o'clock. And they're also less independent. In
1:40
Speaker 2: the same situation, the grandparent will keep the child in
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Speaker 2: the house to run around and push the door open
1:43
Speaker 2: while the parent is working and so Josh says, I've
1:46
Speaker 2: got another couple of anecdotes for friends. A friend's parents
1:48
Speaker 2: are counterproductive when helping. We've been there. Additionally, those grandparents
1:54
Speaker 2: have lunch and coffee with their friends who are grandparents
1:57
Speaker 2: and share pictures and stories. So they want the stories
1:59
Speaker 2: and pictures, but they don't want to put in the
2:01
Speaker 2: effort to help, Josh says. Other grandparents have certain expectations,
2:05
Speaker 2: such as it's okay to start dinner at seven PM,
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Speaker 2: there's conflict, there's lack of knowledge, there's lack of awareness,
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Speaker 2: there's lack of emotional intelligence. I thought it would be great.
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Speaker 2: I need some inspiration, Please help, Josh. So this is
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Speaker 2: I feel like we can actually in some ways do
2:21
Speaker 2: this podcast in like two minutes. My two minute too long,
2:24
Speaker 2: didn't read version is they've got their own lives to live.
2:28
Speaker 2: Be grateful, let them be involved and recognize that they're
2:32
Speaker 2: going to do things differently to you, and that's okay
2:34
Speaker 2: because you're the primary caregiver. You're the primary parent, and
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Speaker 2: you will be more influential. Just let the kids have
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Speaker 2: great relationships. That's my too long didn't read version.
2:42
Speaker 3: So for me, I remember back to when you and
2:46
Speaker 3: I were planning to have our first baby, yeah, and
2:50
Speaker 3: we used to look at parents with their kids and
2:53
Speaker 3: we would roll our eyes and go, we are never
2:56
Speaker 3: going to do that. Our kids are never going to
2:59
Speaker 3: be like, we're not going to speak like that.
3:01
Speaker 2: We were going to be so good.
3:03
Speaker 3: And we thought we knew it all. And I feel
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Speaker 3: the same way about grandparenting. So you and I are
3:08
Speaker 3: not grandparents.
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Speaker 2: Yet, it's only a few months.
3:12
Speaker 3: And I have this idealistic idea of what that will
3:18
Speaker 3: look like. And having experienced life with obviously two sets
3:22
Speaker 3: of grandparents for us, and the ups and downs and
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Speaker 3: the challenges around needing help and getting various levels of
3:31
Speaker 3: help over the years, Yep, I think I've got it
3:35
Speaker 3: all planned out. My idea of being available to my
3:40
Speaker 3: kids and therefore my grandkids at the drop of a
3:43
Speaker 3: hat is how I want to live my life.
3:47
Speaker 2: And that's how Josh wants his parents to be available
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Speaker 2: because he loved He knows that they love the grandkids.
3:53
Speaker 2: He knows that they want to be involved, but they're
3:55
Speaker 2: just trying to do a little bit less parenting. They're
3:58
Speaker 2: trying to do it their way.
4:00
Speaker 3: But I'm also at the point in my life where
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Speaker 3: my kids need me less than they've ever needed me before,
4:06
Speaker 3: and I'm starting to dabble in things that I've never
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Speaker 3: dabbled in before. I'm starting to actually get a life
4:13
Speaker 3: that I haven't been able to experience up until now,
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Speaker 3: and I can see over time how trying to fit
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Speaker 3: the grandkids in and around the new found freedoms that
4:25
Speaker 3: I'm experiencing as a parent will be challenging, and just
4:31
Speaker 3: like becoming a parent for the first time opened my
4:34
Speaker 3: eyes to just how difficult my parents had it. I'm
4:40
Speaker 3: starting to recognize and see how challenging it is to
4:44
Speaker 3: coordinate everything. And you don't just have one child that
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Speaker 3: you're dealing with, You actually have numerous families for a
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Speaker 3: lot most people.
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Speaker 2: Both of our parents have like between fifteen and twenty
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Speaker 2: two grandchildren just for.
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Speaker 3: Themselves around different parenting styles with oh yeahs. So I'm
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Speaker 3: seeing in my parents often they're quite paralyzed in the
5:05
Speaker 3: way they interact with my kids from a parenting perspective,
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Speaker 3: because you and I do things so differently to the
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Speaker 3: way my sisters do things in their home.
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Speaker 2: Can you imagine my mom's dad don't know? Can you
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Speaker 2: imagine trying to grandparent the parenting experts kids like seriously?
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Speaker 2: So I was a little bit glib. I was very
5:23
Speaker 2: very short with Josh's comments before because I wanted to
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Speaker 2: just highlight my real take home message is just be
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Speaker 2: grateful that they're in their lives. It's a joy, it's
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Speaker 2: a privilege. They're not going to do things your way,
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Speaker 2: and mostly I think we just need to be cool
5:36
Speaker 2: with that. But I want to unpack that just a
5:38
Speaker 2: little more when it comes to grandparents not doing things
5:45
Speaker 2: the way the parents want them done. Let's remember a
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Speaker 2: handful of things. First off, as Josh points out in
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Speaker 2: his email, in the early days, the grandparents were all
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Speaker 2: over this. They were like, oh my goodness, this is amazing.
5:54
Speaker 2: I just want this baby in my life and I
5:57
Speaker 2: will do whatever I have to do it. But we know, psychologically,
6:01
Speaker 2: we become accustomed to things, we become comfortable with things.
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Speaker 2: We tend not to get as excited about the new
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Speaker 2: shiny object when it's not quite as new and shiny.
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Speaker 3: Well, and then it starts speaking back to you, and it.
6:11
Speaker 2: Starts doing poohs, and the parents aren't around to change them,
6:14
Speaker 2: so you've got to change them happy instead, or.
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Speaker 3: The constant conversation that's not how mum cuts my sandwiches.
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Speaker 2: So, and grandparents have already been through this. They've already
6:25
Speaker 2: done it. And this brings me to my second point,
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Speaker 2: and that is they did it their way. They look
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Speaker 2: at you, and I would imagine that they're probably pretty
6:33
Speaker 2: proud of you. They're grateful that you're their kid, and
6:37
Speaker 2: they think that they did a reasonably good job of
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Speaker 2: raising you. To some degree, a lot of grandparents are
6:43
Speaker 2: going to be a little bit offended that their kids
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Speaker 2: are raising the grandkids differently to how they were raised.
6:50
Speaker 2: It's like, well, did I not do a good enough job?
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Speaker 2: And many grandparents, whether they're doing it intentionally or not,
6:56
Speaker 2: they're not going to change their relationship habits when it
7:00
Speaker 2: comes to small children just because they're the grandparent now
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Speaker 2: and not the parent now. Many of them will. They'll
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Speaker 2: become softer, they'll become more indulgent. They'll let the grandkids
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Speaker 2: get away with things that the kids would never get
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Speaker 2: it and would never have gotten away with because they've
7:14
Speaker 2: learned not to sweat the small stuff and they love
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Speaker 2: spoiling that little angel, that little cherub. But I really
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Speaker 2: want to emphasize from a grandparent's perspective, what they're saying is,
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Speaker 2: hang on, I'm living my life and it's my best life.
7:28
Speaker 2: I mean, my parents have just retired and they are
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Speaker 2: so happy, just loving it. But they keep on saying,
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Speaker 2: I don't know how we had time for work because
7:37
Speaker 2: we have got so much to do, and now that
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Speaker 2: we're not working, we're able to go and do all
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Speaker 2: of it. In fact, we still can't get it all done.
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Speaker 2: There's so much that we want to do, and now
7:45
Speaker 2: we're also trying to fit in visits to our children,
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Speaker 2: to spend time with the grandchildren, to do the baby
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Speaker 2: sitting in and we no.
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Speaker 3: Longer just surround the corner. Literally all of your siblings
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Speaker 3: are spread out all over the country.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, which may or may not be the case for
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Speaker 2: Josh and for his friends. But there's this issue of
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Speaker 2: just because their grandparents and their empty nesters doesn't mean
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Speaker 2: that they're waiting around twiddling their thumbs hoping that we'll
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Speaker 2: call them and say, please come and look after the
8:06
Speaker 2: children so that we can get some work done. In fact,
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Speaker 2: it's pretty much the opposite. So when they do show
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Speaker 2: up with all those grandchildren around, we should expect that
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Speaker 2: they probably are going to be a little less reliable,
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Speaker 2: and they may have their own agenda. They may have
8:22
Speaker 2: preferences for how things might go. They may have activities
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Speaker 2: that they want to do with the kids that weren't
8:27
Speaker 2: important to you. But they know that they're going to
8:30
Speaker 2: have fun with the kids. And so this is that
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Speaker 2: bit where we sort of pause and say, I know
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Speaker 2: I want to judge my parents because we're fighting with
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Speaker 2: them about what and how like, oh, I just remembered
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Speaker 2: a story. This is an embarrassing story for me to tell.
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Speaker 2: We went out one night, I think at the time
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Speaker 2: we had three small children. We'd gone out for a
8:52
Speaker 2: date and we came home a little later than we
8:54
Speaker 2: should have. I think we got home at about nine fifteen.
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Speaker 2: Your parents, on a school night, had been looking after
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Speaker 2: our children, and the kids were still awake. Only one
9:03
Speaker 2: of them was old enough to be at school, the
9:05
Speaker 2: other two were preschoolers. And when we walked in the door,
9:09
Speaker 2: your parents were sitting in front of the TV with
9:11
Speaker 2: our kids watching a movie. And I actually cracked it.
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Speaker 2: I just said, what in the world is going on?
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Speaker 2: Why are the children not in bed? It's nine point fifteen,
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Speaker 2: Their bedtime is seven point thirty. And I launched into
9:27
Speaker 2: a lecture to your parents. I don't even know if
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Speaker 2: I was studying psychology at the time. Maybe i'd just started,
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Speaker 2: I don't know. It was very, very very early in
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Speaker 2: the piece, and I tore it to your parents really rudely,
9:38
Speaker 2: completely inappropriately. I don't know if you remember that night,
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Speaker 2: And as I've reflected on what happened, I just feel
9:45
Speaker 2: terrible for how I treated your parents. There. They were
9:49
Speaker 2: giving up their Thursday night or their Wednesday night. So
9:52
Speaker 2: that you and I could have a nice time and
9:55
Speaker 2: regenerate our relationship. They'd spent time with the kids, so
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Speaker 2: they'd spend money on the kids. The kids had begged
10:02
Speaker 2: and pleaded, can we please, can we please? Can we please? Please?
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Speaker 2: Please please please watch this movie? And because their grandparents
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Speaker 2: and they love the grandkids, they acquiesced. They sat down
10:12
Speaker 2: on the couch and they thought, well, we'll have a nice,
10:13
Speaker 2: quiet night and once the movie's over, the kids can
10:16
Speaker 2: just hop into bed and they'll fall straight asleep because
10:18
Speaker 2: I'll be super tired. And I mean, I was rude.
10:21
Speaker 2: I hate how I treated them. I really feel bad
10:24
Speaker 2: for what I said and what I did. And it
10:27
Speaker 2: wasn't until a little bit later, as your parents were
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Speaker 2: leaving that your mum or your dad said something softly
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Speaker 2: like the movie I only had ten minutes to go,
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Speaker 2: and they really wanted to watch it, and we were
10:38
Speaker 2: going to put them straight to bed, And I thought, wow.
10:41
Speaker 2: I came in and I caused an absolute storm, and
10:44
Speaker 2: ten minutes later, if we'd just been ten minutes later,
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Speaker 2: I would never have known. The kids would have been
10:49
Speaker 2: in bed, and everyone everyone went to bed miserable because
10:53
Speaker 2: I had my own agenda, and so I.
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Speaker 3: Think that that's part of the reason grandparents don't enforce
11:00
Speaker 3: the rules half the time. They don't see themselves as
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Speaker 3: the enforcer. They see themselves as the soft place for
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Speaker 3: our kids, and when we're not there, they don't want
11:11
Speaker 3: to see the kids upset. So you know, if going
11:15
Speaker 3: to bed at seven o'clock is going to cause such
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Speaker 3: an upset and the kids are going to be distressed
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Speaker 3: going to bed, that breaks the grandparents' heart. It breaks
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Speaker 3: the parent's heart half the time. But you've got your
11:27
Speaker 3: routines and your structures as parents, and you know how
11:29
Speaker 3: things work, and you know how long the child's going
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Speaker 3: to be upset for, and you kind of you get
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Speaker 3: the whole picture. Grandparents are coming in halfway through, trying
11:38
Speaker 3: to navigate to the challenges that drive parents crazy and
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Speaker 3: give them heavy hearts lots of the time, and grandparents
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Speaker 3: are trying to be the soft place and find the
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Speaker 3: way to do things with least resistance so they're not
11:54
Speaker 3: seen as the enemy.
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Speaker 2: I love that there's something else that's important to consider here,
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Speaker 2: and that is as I've researched for my new book,
12:00
Speaker 2: The Parenting Revolution, and written that book and talked about
12:02
Speaker 2: it at nauseum over the last few months. Something that
12:06
Speaker 2: strikes me in this conversation is that parenting is something
12:10
Speaker 2: that we think about today in ways that our parents
12:12
Speaker 2: did not. Parenting was not nearly as big a deal
12:17
Speaker 2: one or two generations ago as it is today. And
12:20
Speaker 2: so the idea that we would sit around and talk
12:22
Speaker 2: about parenting, it's kind of a new thing. It was
12:26
Speaker 2: not happening a generation and a half two generations ago.
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Speaker 2: Even our parents, they weren't that focused on it. It
12:33
Speaker 2: wasn't nearly as intense, It wasn't nearly as programmed and focused.
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Speaker 2: So it has changed in such dramatic ways. And so
12:40
Speaker 2: what we're doing in emails like this one from josh As,
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Speaker 2: we're saying, now that we know what we know about parenting,
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Speaker 2: and now that parenting is as intense as it is,
12:47
Speaker 2: and now the parenting has to be done the right way,
12:48
Speaker 2: the way that we say it needs to be done,
12:50
Speaker 2: the way that our family has decided is the right
12:52
Speaker 2: way that parenting is to be enforced. I need you
12:55
Speaker 2: to catch up. Yeah, you need to catch up, and
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Speaker 2: you need to do it my way. And the parents
12:57
Speaker 2: are like, you know what, we raised you differently and
13:00
Speaker 2: everything's fine.
13:01
Speaker 3: But do you know what else I think is happening.
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Speaker 3: You talked about this idea of you know, as we
13:06
Speaker 3: grow older, we soften, and I think that often the
13:11
Speaker 3: things that we as the parents are getting all worked
13:14
Speaker 3: up about, our parents are kind of saying, I know,
13:18
Speaker 3: it feels like a really big deal right now because
13:20
Speaker 3: you're right in the thick of it. But after twenty
13:23
Speaker 3: thirty forty years of life, I'm now recognizing it's not yeah,
13:28
Speaker 3: the things that you know, don't sweat the small stuff.
13:30
Speaker 3: And I think that often the struggles that we have
13:34
Speaker 3: intergenerationally are because we still haven't got to that soft place.
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Speaker 2: And my guess is that many of these parents were
13:42
Speaker 2: really hard on this stuff when they were younger, and
13:44
Speaker 2: has heard it like I had my emphasis in all
13:47
Speaker 2: the wrong places. So, Josh, we really hope that this
13:49
Speaker 2: has been a head turning, soul expanding, eye opening, paradigm
13:55
Speaker 2: shifting conversation. Now that I'm trying to sell it too hard,
14:00
Speaker 2: but let's just be grateful for the fact that grandparents
14:02
Speaker 2: are involved. If tardiness is an issue, then not in
14:06
Speaker 2: the moment, but a little bit. Lady, you might say, hey,
14:07
Speaker 2: the other day when you said you were going to
14:09
Speaker 2: come by at two. We were so grateful that you
14:11
Speaker 2: did come by, but it was three. Is life just
14:14
Speaker 2: really busy? Did you forget or did the time just
14:18
Speaker 2: not really matter to you because you're retired and you
14:20
Speaker 2: forgot that. I'm still living my life on the schedule
14:23
Speaker 2: and you can have a soft conversation with them. That
14:25
Speaker 2: still sounded a little bit harsh, Still sounded a bit
14:27
Speaker 2: passive aggressive. I might rephrase that just a little bit,
14:31
Speaker 2: but really we're having a conversation to make sure they're
14:33
Speaker 2: okay and to make sure that they understand, and then
14:35
Speaker 2: we can just say, do you reckon next time we
14:37
Speaker 2: can get.
14:38
Speaker 3: You here we've disassed. Is everything okay? I was expecting
14:41
Speaker 3: you at too today.
14:42
Speaker 2: Yes, perfect, you're setting the boundary and you did it
14:44
Speaker 2: so much better than me. But Josh, this is what
14:46
Speaker 2: we're looking for a little bit of gratitude for the
14:48
Speaker 2: grandparents and a recognition that they're choosing to give up
14:51
Speaker 2: their time to be with the kids. And yes it's
14:54
Speaker 2: important to them, but so are other things as well,
14:58
Speaker 2: and they do have to spread themselves kind of thin
14:59
Speaker 2: sometimes times. If you have a question for us, feel
15:02
Speaker 2: free to shoot it through podcasts at happy families dot
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Speaker 2: com dot you. We might agree with you, we might not,
15:07
Speaker 2: but we will definitely give you a carefully considered opinion
15:10
Speaker 2: on how we can make our families happier. The Happy
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Speaker 2: He does such a good job. Craig Bruce is our
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15:21
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