Latest / Martyr's Row / Ep. 25 - Was Turkey the Original Land of Exile?

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Ep. 25 - Was Turkey the Original Land of Exile? · Martyr's Row

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  Justin Martyr Justin, a faithful Christian and
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  philosopher, was tried in Rome around 165 AD
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  for refusing to worship idols. When threatened
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  with death, he boldly declared, No man in his
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  right mind forsaketh the true worship to turn
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  unto falsehood. He was scorched and beheaded,
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  receiving the crown of martyrdom for his steadfast
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  faith. The trial. Rusticus the perfect said unto
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  Justin, obey the gods at once and submit to the
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  emperor. Justin answered, to obey the commandments
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  of men is not right. If it leadeth us to forsake
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  the commandments of God, no man in his right
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  mind forsaketh the true worship to turn unto
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  falsehood. Rusticus sayeth, if thou dost not
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  obey, Thou shalt be scourged and beheaded. Justin
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  replied, We desire nothing more than to suffer
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  for our Lord Jesus Christ, that we may be saved
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  and stand in confidence at the dreadful judgment
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  seat of our God and Savior. Then the perfect
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  commanded they be scourged and led away to be
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  beheaded. Thus did Justin and his companions
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  receive the crown of martyrdom. not fearing death,
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  but embracing it for the love of Christ. Have
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  you ever heard of have you ever heard of well
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  4 a .m. Is always early to do anything on that's
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  true. Yeah If you don't get that joke, you're
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  welcome Have you have you heard of your first
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  episode? Yeah, and welcome Wait It's 4 a .m.
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  Guys, you're not here. So Paul's gonna say thanks
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  for you on your behalf. I appreciate that Yeah,
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  I'm here for you Padre Pio Did you think that
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  was a segue? Yeah. Because I'm just like speaking
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  bad Spanish. I've been thinking about Papa Lampo.
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  Ever since you brought it up. That's one of the
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  Leos. That was like his nickname. Papa Lampo?
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  Yeah, like the lightning papa. Oh yeah, that's
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  right. That's so funny. Yeah. I got to talk to
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  you afterwards. I want to do like a one album
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  punk rock. You don't have to talk afterward at
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  all. That's what we'll do right now. I want to
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  write like basically like Poconacchus style,
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  like MXPX where it's like, yeah, there's like
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  10 to 20 songs in here, but they're all like
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  30 seconds long. I love that. And it's all about
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  the church and the Catholic church. Yeah. But
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  it's punk rock. You know, in the album, in the
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  Band name is Papa Lampho. Yeah, that's brilliant.
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  And we wear oversized button -down bowling shirts.
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  Yes. Yeah, yeah. It's gonna be brilliant. Yeah,
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  we'd have to. Then we do one show and we call
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  it a season. Well, that's where we record everything.
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  Yes, absolutely. We're just live recording a
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  one -off album. It'd be amazing. I'm down for
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  that. We'd have to get... Can we make it ska?
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  Yeah, we can throw some ska in there. Okay, yeah,
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  we have to. like a trumpet in the trombone. You
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  have to. And we end it with the doxology. And
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  when we go, you will not see this coming. And
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  then we just start in the doxology. It'd be so
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  good. Yeah, I'm down for that. OK, sweet. So
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  coming to a theater near you. Maybe. Or a small
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  town club near you. Yeah. Padre Pio? Padre Pio.
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  Padre Pio sounds right Padre Padre Padre Pio
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  Padre Pio Padre Pio Padre Pio Padre Pio Padre
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  Pio Padre Pio Padre Pio Padre Pio Padre Pio Padre
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  Pio Padre Pio Padre Pio Padre Pio Padre Pio Padre
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  Pio Padre Pio Padre Pio Padre Pio Padre Pio Padre
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  Pio Padre Pio Padre Pio Padre Pio Padre Pio Padre
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  Pio Padre Pio Because I was like I want to be
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  able to order a coffee and like that's all I
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  really care about but I just kind of kept going
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  Well, we already talked about your your trip
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  to was in Nicaragua Nicaragua Costa Rica, you
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  know, it's really annoying. I was just hearing
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  somebody talk about this whenever People are
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  like, oh, yeah, they're speaking just like this
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  most plain English and then they're like and
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  have you been to Nicaragua? I feel like the news
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  does all the time Probably. They're like, this
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  just in. A woman from Puerto Rico came down.
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  It's like overdubbed. But it's them doing their
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  own overdub. Yikes. So I won't do that. Padre
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  Pio. Padre Pio. See, it's more Italian to use
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  the hand. That's true. Piatresciana? I don't
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  know. You're on your own for that one. That's
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  his full name, but that's just where he's from.
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  That's what we call him Pio. Padre Pio, he's
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  Italian, and he was a, I guess a cardinal, but
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  he was with the Catholic Church. He was born
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  in 1887. So not currently alive. If he was, I've
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  got some questions. Yeah, so he was born in 1887,
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  and he died in 1968. Wow. So you haven't heard
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  about this guy? It sounds familiar. What kind
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  of math is that, 80 years old? I'm 81 smart enough.
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  I think 81 No, it sounds familiar, but I can't
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  tell you anything about it. I know I've heard
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  the name before okay, so this guy's actually
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  kind of crazy because Like he is canonized. He
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  was canonized in 2002. And what that means is
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  like, and I was actually thinking about this.
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  It's funny that like two Protestant guys that
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  don't really know anything about the Catholic
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  church. Talk a lot about it. Talk a lot about
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  the Catholic church because there's so many interesting
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  things about it. Yeah. And the Protestant church
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  is just. Well, because my dad grew up Catholic.
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  We're like. And my mom did too. Yeah. They knew
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  each other. And that's all I hold on. They did.
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  No, they didn't. No. All Catholics know each
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  other. Did your mom go to a St. Mary's? That's
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  where my dad went to. I believe so, actually.
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  Oh, really? I think so. They did know each other
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  then. There's only one Mary. Yeah. But yeah,
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  most of everything I know about the Catholic
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  Church comes from my dad just describing what
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  he saw and learned growing up. He went to Catholic
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  school and everything as well. Yeah, that's wild.
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  To be expected. Yeah, my mom did as well. Okay,
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  yeah, yeah. I don't think she went like to like
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  a convent. She just went to a Catholic school.
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  Yeah, like a regular like private. Yeah, it's
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  like a private Christian. That's my dad did.
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  Yeah Yeah, so I don't know how we got there but
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  because two Protestant guys just talking about
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  it is funny to along with what you said, it's
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  like it is funny how There seemed to be a movement
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  early on where they're like, oh, if it's Catholic,
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  it's not us. Yeah. And so we just threw out all
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  of our early church history. Yeah. And we're
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  like, because that's a Catholic thing. Oh, you
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  know what? And they're like, OK, what about your
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  history? It's like, well, there's the New Testament.
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  And then now there's us. Yeah. We start with
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  Martin Luther. That's where it picks up. Protestants
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  are pretty bad just like knowing anything about
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  their past. It's so true. Which is crazy because
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  it's all there. But I told you about Tulip. They're
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  not ready for that. No one's ready for that.
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  Yeah. Calvin himself would have to learn it.
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  It's so true. They're more reformed than Calvin.
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  Yeah. I mean, yeah. But oh, I was going to say,
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  I was looking at, I was just, as one does, looking
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  at AI photos of the day of Pentecost. That sounds
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  like something I would say. That's why it's awesome.
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  Just Googling AI photos of the day. Yeah. Because
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  I want to see what AI thinks about it. That's
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  fair. Anyways, there was one that was really
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  weird because it had Mary in the middle of it.
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  Really? And she was in her divine figure just
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  haloed around her. And she's hovering. And everybody
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  has cloven tongues of fire on their heads. So
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  it's almost like I don't. I need to look up,
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  like, do the Catholics believe that the Holy
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  Spirit came down in the form of Mary or, like,
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  through Mary? I don't think I've ever heard anyone
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  say that. Well, there's an AI photo out there
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  with that. AI thinks it's happened. I mean, was
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  she even, was she still alive during that, during
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  Pentecost? I would assume she was. Yeah, and
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  she - Because it's, like, two months after -
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  Oh, wait, she's counted in the group. Yeah, yeah,
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  yeah. So, okay, that makes sense. Because Pentecost
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  happened like 40 days after... 50. You're right.
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  50 days after the Resurrection. Not after the
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  Resurrection, it was after the Transfiguration.
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  The Ascension. Protestants. It's way too early.
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  Well yeah, because didn't he spend like 50 days
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  with the disciples? Yeah. Or 40 days with the
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  disciples. That's what it was. It was 40. And
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  then 50 days after the ascension. You're right,
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  you're right. But that's, I mean, we talked about
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  that in the last episode, that we don't think
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  about Paul as getting his information directly
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  from God. Oh, it would have been 50 days after
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  Passover. Was when Pentecost happened. Yeah,
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  yeah, yeah. So there's a lot that, so it's not
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  that long after the ascension. So it's really
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  like a month and a half between Passover to Pentecost.
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  Sure. Yeah. I think so. 50 days. Roughly. Depending
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  on the calendar. Well. So anyways. Yeah, it's
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  fair. Padre Pio. Padre Pio. That actually reminds
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  me of something else, but I'll wait for it. Padre
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  Pio. Okay. So here's the thing. He died in 1968,
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  right? When his tomb was opened in 2008. First
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  of all, why was his tomb opened? Why 2008? Don't
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  know. I think they were some other things happened
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  in 2008, but he was he was canonized in 2002
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  by Pope John Paul the second But real quick two
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  things about this guy when his tomb was opened
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  in 2008 40 years after his death his body was
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  reportedly to be partially incorrupt especially
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  the face and hands So like if you look up a picture
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  of this guy then Padre Pio he like They have
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  him enshrined in this glass case and you can
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  go to, you can go to, I forget where he's at,
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  the sanctuary of Saint Papio of Pietrelcina in
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  San Giovanni Rotunda, Italy. What part of Italy
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  is that? You're about to go there. I was like,
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  I gotta go see Papapio. I actually am gonna try
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  to do that now. San Giovanni Rotondo. Italy so
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  anyways that up. I want to see if I can make
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  that part of my trip Yeah, cuz it's pretty crazy
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  because what like basically they were like okay.
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  He's like mostly preserved. This is weird and
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  The church officials say that his body was in
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  surprisingly good condition for its age a Wax
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  mask was placed over his face to preserve his
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  appearance for public veneration The Vatican
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  never officially declared him incorrupt, but
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  the condition was notable So It was a sign it's
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  like they're like, okay is natural or miraculous
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  like what is what is all this? And they say like
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  it's a sign of holiness and divine favor. So
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  the other thing I wanted to mention is that So
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  his body's there now and it's like in this glass
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  case Yeah, and you can actually like go up and
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  see his body like why like you to me Yeah, like
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  it's just right there and I'm gonna try to do
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  it I'm gonna try to do it. Do it. It's in San
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  Giovanni, Rattando, Italy. Of course. Papa Pio.
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  Where's Papa Pio? Padre. Padre Pio. Buongiorno.
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  Padre Pio. But here's the thing about Padre Pio
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  is he like as an altar boy like as he like he
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  was in the church pretty early on, and there
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  was a lot of things happening through him, and
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  he became a priest, meaning there were a lot
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  of miraculous signs and different things associated
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  with him directly, to the point where he was
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  actually, he's actually really, really recognizable
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  if you type in Catholic priest stigmata. Now,
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  do you know what stigmata is? I couldn't define
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  it. So stigmata is wild. Stigmata is, it's attributed
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  to people who have a particular devotion to holiness
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  and it doesn't happen to everybody. It's like
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  super, super rare as far as like how it's written
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  down. But basically there's a sign, a physical
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  sign given to them that other people can see.
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  Okay. that is specific to the crucifixion of
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  Jesus. So stigmata basically means that like
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  all of a sudden you'll have nail scarred hands.
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  Or I guess wrists. And then you would have nail
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  scars in your feet. And then you would have pain
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  in your side. Like with stigmata, actually comes
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  bleeding. That you would actually bleed out.
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  So what they say is like, And then I think he
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  particularly had it with the crown of thorns.
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  He had it in his head. And so over 50 years,
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  he was stigmatic, is how they would say it, which
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  is kind of crazy. So Padre Pio was stigmatic.
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  And they said that particularly when he was doing
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  confession, that like when he was performing
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  confession, so when he's in the confession booth
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  with another person, these signs would show up,
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  and he would bleed. He's like, do you got a handkerchief?
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  I'm bleeding out here. That's so crazy. Yeah,
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  so wounds on hands, feet and sides, similar to
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  Christ's crucifixion. The first appearance of
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  that was September 20th, 1918. While he was praying
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  before a crucifix in his monastery, he reportedly
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  bled daily, especially during Mass. for over
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  50 years. I would stop attending. Described as,
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  well he was a priest. Yeah, and he had to do
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  it. Yeah. That's so wild. Yeah, wow. It was described
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  as painful and unhealing, but free of infection
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  or odor, which amazed the doctors. Multiple medical
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  examinations over the years, both by church officials
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  and external doctors. His wounds disappeared
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  without a trace shortly before or after his death
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  in 1968, which mystified observers. Wow. So that's
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  actually kind of the crazy thing is, so there's
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  photos and written testimonies that confirm the
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  physical wounds. That's so crazy. So it's not
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  just something that he's experiencing. He just
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  said it. He's not just like, ah, my side hurts.
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  He's like, there's blood coming out. Yeah, there's
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  actually marks on my hands or my wrists. Yeah,
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  yeah. Yeah. So like, he was stigmatic. That's
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  so crazy. And to the point where the Catholic
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  Church was like, hey, we need to watch out for
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  this guy. And they actually made him sit out
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  for like, I think two or three years. Wow. In
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  like the 30s. And basically was like, hey, we
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  need to observe you. Yeah. You need to sit aside
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  from your priestly duty. Because like, this is...
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  the reports and whatever's coming in is like,
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  this is too much. Yeah. And so they, they, they
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  never like, yeah. So it's, it's pretty interesting.
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  So Padre Pio's 40 years later, even now you can
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  go see him enshrined and they've like held onto
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  him, but his body was in a really good condition.
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  Wow. Isn't that weird? That, so that's one of
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  those things where like full transparency, honesty,
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  it's like, What do you do with that? You know
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  what I mean? Well, they apparently have, like
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  that's the thing about the Catholic Church, they
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  have categories for stuff like this. Absolutely.
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  So they have incorruptible body category. Yeah.
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  I mean, you think about it, it's like, especially
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  in the early middle ages, like that was, those
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  areas of study were huge. Yeah. And they put
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  so much time and dedication into like trying
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  to categorize and understand this stuff. Yeah.
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  Yeah. Because it was actually happening. Right.
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  Yeah. And that's the thing is like, I think one
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  of the things that we don't experience just a
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  normal life because when you have people that
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  are like heavily devoted to Christ and go into
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  things like monasteries and they are having these
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  active real spiritual experiences that are legitimate
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  and they're like we talked about before like
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  they're shifting from first heaven, second heaven,
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  they're shifting dimensions a little bit in that
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  way of just like, they're going from this space
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  to the other. And it's very thin where they are
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  because their mind and their actions and they're
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  denying the flesh regularly. So it's like, it's
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  that idea of like, you're just kind of giving
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  yourself over to that, to the point where your
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  body starts to represent, literally represent
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  Christ. Which is what stigmata is. Because the
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  thing is, and we've talked about this before,
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  but like, That's the crazy thing about the image
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  of Jesus in Revelation is that he appears as
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  the lamb who was slain. Yeah. It doesn't say
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  like a healed lamb. No, it's like he was. Yeah.
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  And like when he's coming on the clouds, we'll
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  see the nail scarred hands. Yes. Like he has
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  a glorified body in the way that we will have
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  resurrected bodies in the days. After heaven,
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  but he still carries the scars with him, but
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  he still carries the scars Yeah, which is like
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  that idea of like salvation always being saved
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  It's like yeah process of like it's not until
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  it's fully complete and I wonder if like yeah
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  I wonder if when all things are said and done
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  if His scars will go away. Hmm, or if it will
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  always be a reminder. Hmm Do you know what I
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  mean? Yeah. We don't have any indication of that.
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  We don't. In some ways I feel like they'll always
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  be there. Yeah. Which is kind of a cool picture.
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  It is. Yeah, you know, it's interesting too.
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  It reminds me of, and we see this in a lot of
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  places in Old Testament and New Testament. The
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  one that came to mind first was the stoning of
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  Stephen. Yeah. Where they see him where his face
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  is shining. Yeah. But we also see that with Moses
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  when he comes down from Mount Sinai. Yep. And
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  he had to cover his face because of the glory
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  that was shining off of him. Yeah. And it's like,
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  that's kind of like a level of this where it's
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  like you're reflecting the glory of God. Right.
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  And to actually physically have those representations
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  of the scars of Christ on you. It's like, dang,
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  that's something that's like pretty far down
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  the line there. Yeah. I mean, even to the point
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  where he was actually bleeding, but they said
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  that the wounds and the blood actually had a
• 19:59
  pleasant smell. Yeah, and there was no infection
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  or anything. No infection, clean wounds. And
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  he's examined by doctors. It's all medically
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  reported. So that's the other thing is the thing
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  the Catholic Church does well is they're like,
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  no, until they document everything. Yeah. So
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  there are a lot of things like this, but they
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  don't all necessarily get documented. Right.
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  And this is an instance where a guy does get
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  documented and they have all of these medical
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  records and all that stuff. But yeah, Padre Pio.
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  That is so interesting. Yeah. I got to see if
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  I can see him. You should. That would be awesome.
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  So Paul reporting back from... Dove Padre Pio.
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  Hey, Padre Pio. On three, two, one. All right,
• 20:48
  it is the songwriting time. So I'm gonna throw
• 20:53
  something at you, Paul. You did something last
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  episode. I'm gonna do a similar thing, but we're
• 20:59
  gonna do it kind of in real time. Okay. I like
• 21:01
  it. And I'm gonna make you sing this time. Awesome.
• 21:06
  So what we're gonna do... What was that? I was
• 21:10
  warming up. I sound like an elephant. So what
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  I'm gonna do is write... I'm gonna open chat
• 21:17
  gbt and I'm gonna say write uh lyrics oh you're
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  really going in based on yeah based on see last
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  time you came in with something already written
• 21:27
  yeah um but this is gonna make a little bit more
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  sense so write lyrics based on Padre P uh should
• 21:35
  I do that yeah do it actually I'm really curious
• 21:38
  Padre Pio Pio's It always wants to go to Oh,
• 21:45
  it's because I'm not capitalizing it Pios Padre
• 21:50
  Pios I guess he's the Saint can I say Saint?
• 21:56
  The stigmatic Saint On Saint Padre Pios Stigmata
• 22:05
  Yeah Write lyrics based on Saint Padre Pios Stigmata
• 22:12
  um and right based on okay uh his stigmata uh
• 22:20
  in the should i do like in the feel of or no
• 22:24
  like if you want to yeah in how about um stigmata
• 22:30
  in four lines of two verses sweet um okay so
• 22:43
  Just give it a quick proof for you to make sure
• 22:45
  yeah Make sure not say anything too crazy I Also
• 22:52
  like that uh Justin martyr was our martyr tonight.
• 22:55
  Yeah, yeah But but yeah, you know we we do we
• 22:59
  can okay, so we do So but then now we need a
• 23:04
  So I mean he made some bold claims. That's the
• 23:08
  one cool thing even in the trial sequence. It's
• 23:11
  like, yeah, to be that strong in your faith is
• 23:13
  pretty awesome. Yeah. I mean, that's a common
• 23:17
  thing that we see from a lot of the martyrs.
• 23:19
  Obviously, they are very strong enough to die
• 23:21
  for what they believe in. But it is cool to kind
• 23:23
  of get an image or a little view into like, all
• 23:26
  right, what did he actually say? Yeah. And some
• 23:30
  of the really bold claims, I think, are really
• 23:32
  cool. But I do love because it's actually something
• 23:35
  that I've been thinking about recently. my brother
• 23:38
  and I have talked about this. It's like, could
• 23:41
  there be, or what would the thing be that would
• 23:44
  cause you to question God? And it's funny for
• 23:47
  me, I've come to a place recently where my answer
• 23:50
  for that is I don't think anything could, because
• 23:53
  it'd be like trying to tell me that my parents
• 23:55
  aren't real. And it's like, you know what I mean?
• 23:57
  It's like, but I know them. It's like, well,
• 24:00
  I know God. And so it's like, I don't think anything
• 24:04
  could make me question him. I'm half listening
• 24:05
  to you. I know you are. I'm mostly saying it
• 24:07
  for them while you're doing this. But that's
• 24:11
  why I think it's cool, because one of the things
• 24:13
  that Justin Martyr says is like, after believing
• 24:17
  the truth, how could I believe anything else?
• 24:19
  And it's that same idea of like, yeah, but I
• 24:21
  know what the truth is. So why would I deny it
• 24:25
  for literally anything else? I'd rather die for
• 24:27
  truth. I think it's a cool thing because it's
• 24:30
  like, yeah, he knows the person. He's got that
• 24:33
  relationship with the Lord. And so you're saying
• 24:35
  like, oh, that person's not real. I need you
• 24:37
  to say it. It's like, how could I say that? It's
• 24:40
  like, I know he's real. This is crazy how fast
• 24:42
  this will do this, by the way. It's pretty incredible,
• 24:45
  right? Yeah, because I now have a... You've written
• 24:49
  a 16 -minute song. It's a whole ballad now. All
• 24:53
  right. So here's the other thing that's going
• 24:54
  to be kind of trippy that I'm going to do. So
• 24:58
  Padre Pio, just so I have the note, song. This
• 25:03
  is the Padre Pio song. The Padre Pio song. I
• 25:07
  love that. Do you want me to read out what it
• 25:11
  says? Or do you want to just catch it in real
• 25:13
  time? Let me just catch it in real time. So here's
• 25:15
  the other thing that, like, I don't know if this
• 25:16
  is a good or a bad idea, but I thought about
• 25:18
  just taking someone else's guitar part and just
• 25:23
  seeing if you can do it on top of that. Okay.
• 25:26
  If I know the part. So this is another song.
• 25:29
  Okay. So I'll just play another song. Do I know
• 25:31
  it? You know the song, you may not recognize
• 25:35
  the guitar part. Okay. But the whole song is
• 25:37
  built off of this. Do you already know what it
• 25:43
  is? I don't think so. Okay. This isn't too bad.
• 25:50
  So, it goes like this. I'm just trying to think
• 26:08
  what song this is. In silent prayer the wounds
• 26:25
  appear, a gift He bore with grace. sacred marks
• 26:39
  love crucified upon his hands and his face step
• 26:53
  by step through fire and flame hearts that bled
• 27:00
  in Jesus name Don't forget, don't let go We've
• 27:12
  walked the path of martyrs' road The pain you
• 27:24
  walked for Christ had led My soul a living flame
• 27:38
  A mystery veiled in flesh and blood Endured in
• 27:42
  Jesus' name Step by step through fire and flame
• 27:56
  Hearts that bled in Jesus' name We won't forget,
• 28:09
  we won't let go We walk the path of mortars broke
• 28:47
  So you want to keep it that same with the turnarounds,
• 28:58
  even on the chorus hook? I think I'm going to
• 29:01
  come in a little better at the chorus. bunch
• 29:04
  it together a little bit more. And everybody
• 29:06
  says sing loud, Paul. Sing loud. You're right.
• 29:10
  It's so chill. It makes me instantly just go
• 29:12
  breath. I know. No, no, no. I like it. No, don't
• 29:15
  change how you're singing. No, no, no, no. I'll
• 29:17
  sing louder. Just give us all the words. So you're
• 29:22
  going to try it again? Yeah, let's do it. Do
• 29:23
  you know what song it is? No, actually. Are you
• 29:25
  going to tell me later? Yeah. Tell me after.
• 29:28
  Tell me after. Don't tell me now. I'll think
• 29:30
  about it. They'll never know. Hopefully I'm playing
• 29:34
  it not perfect enough. Because otherwise, yikes.
• 29:38
  Copyright. Otherwise, you're not even hearing
• 29:40
  this right now. Yeah, true. Should I not do that?
• 29:44
  No, do it. I like it. Okay. We'll see what happens.
• 29:47
  It'll be our first one. Yeah. Our first strike.
• 29:50
  Yeah, we haven't gotten flags. It's so special.
• 29:53
  Yeah. All right, let's try it again. Ready? Yeah.
• 30:09
  In silent prayer the wounds appeared, a gift
• 30:14
  He bore with grace. Five sacred marks, love crucified
• 30:30
  upon His hands and His face. Yeah, we'll have
• 30:56
  to wait. Do you want me to change that there?
• 30:58
  I won't do the turnaround on the chorus. Yeah,
• 31:01
  don't do the turnaround. Okay. And then at the
• 31:03
  end of your verse, go up higher. Cause you're
• 31:07
  going up on the end, go up higher than where
• 31:09
  you're landing. On the end of the verse? Yeah.
• 31:12
  Okay. I can't give you the note, but when you
• 31:14
  go up, go up higher. I'm dropping it. Yeah. Well,
• 31:20
  you need to go up higher and then down lower.
• 31:22
  So you're like not going up high enough and then
• 31:24
  down lower. I don't think I get it, but we're
• 31:29
  gonna see how I do. I'll repeat this in the chorus.
• 31:35
  Okay. Yeah, that'd be good. And then I'll just
• 31:38
  go... Yeah. That way you can just keep it going.
• 31:45
  I think that'll work. Okay, cool. Yeah, yeah,
• 31:47
  yeah. Let's try that. Okay. I like it. Sweet.
• 32:10
  What? I said grift accidentally. But you can
• 32:14
  also try to like, if there's too many words on
• 32:18
  something, just bail on it. I'm going to try
• 32:20
  to do that. There's a couple of them. I was like,
• 32:22
  this is way too easy. Because again, this is
• 32:23
  like a robot and doesn't know that we're doing
• 32:25
  it to this. I'm also trying to find where I want
• 32:29
  to put the words. I think everything sounds great
• 32:31
  so far. Oh, sweet. Because I've been changing
• 32:32
  it up to try it out. Just keep doing it, but
• 32:36
  bail if the phrase is over. OK, I can do that.
• 32:41
  Yeah, they don't know. Yeah, you have no clue.
• 32:45
  I have no clue. Well they know now, but oops.
• 32:47
  Now unless I edit it, I'm gonna bleep the whole
• 32:49
  thing. It's gonna be one bleep until we get to
• 32:52
  the final take. Well, it may just be no sound
• 32:55
  at all. We'll see. We'll see if we get copywritten
• 32:59
  and fringe it. It starts to get the first note.
• 33:03
  I feel like most people aren't gonna know the
• 33:05
  song, so. Yeah, that's fair. It's kind of a deep
• 33:07
  cut. It sounds so familiar, but I can't place
• 33:12
  it yet. I'll never tell you. I'm trying not to
• 33:15
  right now. Yeah, I don't. All right, here we
• 33:16
  go. In silent prayer the wounds appear A gift
• 33:37
  He bore with grace Five sacred marks crucified
• 33:50
  Upon His hands and His face And step by step,
• 34:03
  the fire flame, the heart that bled in Jesus'
• 34:08
  name. Oh, forget, we won't let go. We walk the
• 34:13
  path of martyrs' road, martyrs' road. Through
• 34:30
  pain He walked, where Christ had led His soul
• 34:35
  a living flame. A factory built in flesh and
• 34:47
  blood Endured in Jesus' name, in Jesus' name.
• 34:58
  Step by step, fire and flame The hearts that
• 35:03
  led in Jesus' name We won't forget, we won't
• 35:09
  let go We walk the path of martyrs' road Of martyrs'
• 35:18
  road, of martyrs' road Three, two, one. Paul,
• 35:32
  what's your favorite sandwich? You know what?
• 35:35
  I appreciate this question. Because I feel like
• 35:38
  the art of the sandwich has been on the decline
• 35:42
  over the last few years. We've started each segment,
• 35:46
  by the way, of this particular episode completely
• 35:48
  different, which is really funny. Because usually
• 35:51
  this is the first segment. Yeah, true. Now we're
• 35:54
  starting here. It might lead somewhere. Maybe.
• 35:59
  To a sandwich hopefully in my belly That would
• 36:05
  be awesome the art of the sandwich yeah, is that
• 36:07
  because like most sandwiches have way too much
• 36:09
  bread one side, but also people don't know how
• 36:13
  to stack the ingredients properly. Ooh, I'm actually
• 36:16
  with you on that. And that changes the sandwich
• 36:19
  drastically. It really does. Actually, they've
• 36:22
  done experiments on this. Okay. With burgers.
• 36:26
  Oh, okay. And the order you stack them, because
• 36:28
  every fast food restaurant in particular, they
• 36:30
  stack theirs differently, and you actually get
• 36:33
  a different flavor and profile from each one.
• 36:36
  That makes sense. Just based on the stack order.
• 36:38
  Okay, so what hits your palate first? Yeah, cuz
• 36:41
  that's the dominant flavor of the yeah in certain
• 36:43
  foods like the lettuce will block certain flavors
• 36:46
  Hmm. So it's like you got to know like are what
• 36:48
  flavors are let through and when do I let them
• 36:49
  through? Wild it's pretty crazy. Yeah, but it's
• 36:53
  a it's an art form. When do you let them through
• 36:55
  as crazy? You're not gonna tell me when you're
• 37:01
  gonna let it through my mouth That's the that's
• 37:04
  so crazy. I'm gonna eat it. However. I want to
• 37:07
  eat it. I'm gonna eat I mean that sandwich upside
• 37:10
  down to be fair though. Like it's rare that I
• 37:12
  eat a McDonald's cheeseburger Yeah, but when
• 37:15
  I do I Don't eat fast food Yeah, it's rare you
• 37:20
  make them at home, but I have two small kids
• 37:22
  and it happens. You got to do it. Yeah But when
• 37:26
  I do that, I intentionally say no Pickle and
• 37:32
  no onion The thing is is actually not like this
• 37:35
  thing. I don't like pickles. Oh I don't mind
• 37:38
  onions. Okay. I don't like the texture of onions.
• 37:41
  Hmm, but the other thing is like I actually like
• 37:45
  a McDonald's cheeseburger Hmm after I've taken
• 37:49
  off the lettuce or not the lettuce the onion
• 37:53
  and pickle the onion and pickle You know, I've
• 37:55
  heard people say that yeah, especially with pickles
• 37:59
  People don't like the crunch or the like actually
• 38:02
  eating a pickle. Yeah, but they love the flavor.
• 38:05
  I can see that The the flavor profile of that
• 38:09
  is way more onion than pickle. Yeah, cuz she's
• 38:12
  like one maybe two pickles But it's like I'm
• 38:15
  gonna like this big and it's like and an onion
• 38:17
  Yeah, but like McDonald's is like raw onion.
• 38:20
  Oh, it's like chopped up. Oh, oh interesting
• 38:22
  Yeah, so it's like I mean, I think they do have
• 38:25
  to like cook them a little bit. Yeah, but it's
• 38:28
  like yeah so it's mostly just onion flavor yeah
• 38:30
  yeah which i don't i don't mind it yeah that's
• 38:34
  actually well so to answer your question yes
• 38:37
  i made this sandwich recently okay this is a
• 38:40
  paul creation and this was your favorite sandwich
• 38:42
  my this is my current favorite sandwich okay
• 38:44
  that i've made the one that you ate recently
• 38:47
  yeah i would say um if you're like hey paul Pick
• 38:50
  a sandwich right now. It would probably have
• 38:52
  to be like a Reuben. Okay. I love Reuben I could
• 38:55
  see that cuz I like sauerkraut. I like sour and
• 38:57
  like yeah bitter stuff You're also looking more
• 39:00
  and more Italian mobster Well, I'm realizing
• 39:05
  that you're about to go to Italy I'm trying to
• 39:08
  blend in Oh Wait, that's Japanese You know, it's
• 39:31
  funny though So cuz my grant my grandparents
• 39:34
  are from Slovenia. Okay, which is bordering Italy.
• 39:38
  Yeah and In a really creepy way. They're like
• 39:41
  right up on them And I think there was like some
• 39:45
  land wars between them. Yeah, so they don't they
• 39:47
  don't like like each other a ton sure I think
• 39:50
  it's most of the Spaniards are like we don't
• 39:51
  like you guys. Yeah, and they have to learn Italian
• 39:54
  It's funny cuz like you know, I'm Sicilian yes.
• 40:00
  Well, that's where I'm getting at here actually
• 40:02
  Cuz those two countries are bordering they came
• 40:06
  over to Ohio. Okay, and You know, hop, skip,
• 40:10
  and a jump. Yeah. And five of my siblings, their
• 40:14
  dad is Italian. Oh, wow. And so I'm like, oh,
• 40:17
  I'm a - Wait, wait, wait. Group around Italians.
• 40:18
  You just said five of your siblings, their dad
• 40:22
  is Italian. Correct. That doesn't make sense.
• 40:24
  Why not? Different dads say mom. You have five
• 40:29
  siblings? Yeah. Well, I have more than that.
• 40:32
  Oh. Wow. I have seven siblings. I didn't know
• 40:35
  that. Really? Yeah. Oh, I thought you knew that.
• 40:37
  Yeah, I'm one of eight. I had no idea. Are you
• 40:42
  serious? You guys are learning this at the same
• 40:44
  time that I am. That's so funny. I've literally
• 40:47
  met and hung out with one of your brothers. Yeah,
• 40:50
  you have. That's so funny. I literally thought
• 40:53
  you had a brother and a sister. Oh, no, there's
• 40:55
  more. There's more. There's five more. We keep
• 40:58
  going. So they're Italian. So I grew up around
• 41:01
  Italians. So it's funny. It's like, oh, I'm kind
• 41:04
  of like bordering Italians. Oh, that's funny.
• 41:06
  Which is that's what the countries do. A house
• 41:07
  divided. And then here we are. Yeah, true. That's
• 41:11
  funny. Working alongside. It's kind of fun. Sicilian,
• 41:17
  Slovenian, Slovenian. A Reuben, your favorite
• 41:20
  sandwich. Oh, yeah, I do like a Reuben. Is it
• 41:21
  Italian? But I don't know what it is. Slovenian?
• 41:24
  Slovenian? Is that a sandwich? No. Okay. It should
• 41:28
  be. The Slovenian? The Slovenian. It sounds good.
• 41:31
  It sounds like an Italian sandwich. I made recently.
• 41:32
  It kind of does. New York Italian. Brooklyn Italian.
• 41:38
  Brooklyn. I can see that. But yeah, so the sandwich
• 41:41
  I made recently. I have an uncle who's Brooklyn
• 41:43
  Italian. That's pretty hardcore. He's pretty
• 41:45
  cool. Yeah, that's cool. That's cool. I took
• 41:48
  these buns that I got and I toast them. Okay.
• 41:53
  I toasted these buns over here. I got these buns
• 41:56
  and I stuck them and toasted them there. Welcome
• 42:00
  to Martyrs Row. I have to say it. And then I
• 42:06
  cut up some avocado. Okay. I put it on the toasted
• 42:10
  bun. Okay. And then I put some, it was like a
• 42:14
  Gruyere cheese. Is this a new segment? This is
• 42:16
  like cooking with Paul. Sandwiches with Paul.
• 42:19
  The art of the sandwich. Paul's sandwich. And
• 42:22
  then I put some tomatoes and some onions. Okay.
• 42:26
  And there was one other thing I put on there.
• 42:28
  Some type of meat? Yes. What was... You're waiting
• 42:32
  on that. I'm trying to remember what meat I put
• 42:33
  on. Oh. Who? It was tuna. Tuna? What? No, no,
• 42:38
  no. Chicken. I lied. Sorry, the tuna sandwich
• 42:42
  was another thing. Yeah, tuna's the chicken of
• 42:44
  the sea. Yeah, it's true. Yeah, I had some pieces
• 42:49
  of chicken that I put on it. OK. Easy to get
• 42:51
  confused. Am I in the sea or on land? I mix them
• 42:53
  up all the time. Which one is it? It's chicken
• 42:54
  either way. And then I put this balsamic glaze
• 43:00
  on top of it. OK. So good. You're doing a lot.
• 43:03
  I know. I put some work into it. It's the artwork.
• 43:05
  I understand. I do feel like there's like a ratio,
• 43:09
  I'm really simple, but I do feel like there's
• 43:11
  this ratio of lettuce to cheese to meat. And
• 43:17
  a lot of times when I make a really simple sandwich,
• 43:20
  there's this, I don't know, I like it a little
• 43:25
  bit spicier. I did put some hot sauce on too.
• 43:28
  Okay, I'm not a huge hot sauce fan. Really? Yeah,
• 43:30
  but stuff that has spicy. What do you what do
• 43:35
  you call seasoning? Oh, what do you call? That's
• 43:37
  how you say Like meats and stuff that have that
• 43:42
  already on it, okay I like that and then mixing
• 43:45
  it in with like Like a provolone cheese, but
• 43:49
  then like doing like, you know some meat and
• 43:51
  then cheese and then more meat and then cheese
• 43:53
  So it's like you kind of see what I mean Yeah,
• 43:55
  and then like you got to put like the condiments
• 43:57
  on the other side of where the where the Lettuce
• 44:02
  is or the you know, yeah, and then you don't
• 44:05
  bite on the side with the condiments on the top
• 44:08
  Cuz I think it's stuck to the roof of your mouth.
• 44:10
  Yes. Yeah exactly When you're gonna taste this
• 44:15
  win, I want you to But honestly, I don't know
• 44:21
  that was weird But my the idea that somebody
• 44:26
  is like orchestrating in a room somewhere when
• 44:29
  I'm gonna taste what flavor in something that's
• 44:31
  somewhere else made is crazy. Now check this
• 44:36
  out, you're gonna... They're gonna taste the
• 44:39
  cheese. But not yet. We're gonna mask it with
• 44:44
  some lettuce. And then, when they're least suspecting
• 44:47
  it, Slovenia! Oh, you're here with the Slovenian!
• 44:53
  Slovenia! Honestly Paul my like I'm I'm very
• 45:01
  very plain with stuff like that so like for me
• 45:04
  like a good provolone cheese is awesome, but
• 45:07
  like Publix has this Cajun like spiced turkey
• 45:13
  that I sounds really good Yeah, so like a little
• 45:15
  bit of Cajun spiced turkey yeah mixed in with
• 45:17
  provolone cheese a little bit of lettuce like
• 45:20
  a real real thick White bread that you're not
• 45:24
  supposed to have Because it's not good for you.
• 45:27
  I don't eat very many sandwiches. Is it from
• 45:28
  the bakery, or do you buy the prepackaged stuff?
• 45:30
  They get the Sarah Lee, like brioche bread. That
• 45:35
  stuff's coming right out of the factory. As much
• 45:39
  flour as possible. They smack the bag when it
• 45:46
  goes out, and it's just powder everywhere. I
• 45:49
  have joked about that. I'm that guy when I walk
• 45:52
  past, like, a chicken breast. Or, like, any,
• 45:55
  like, steak. So instead, like, if you walk into
• 45:59
  a store that I've shopped at, there's a good,
• 46:03
  high percentage that I've slapped it. I mean,
• 46:13
  I mean. Wow I think this is our last segment.
• 46:33
  Yeah, and here we are Ready to get into it, but
• 46:36
  yeah, I'm pretty simple with that But I mean,
• 46:38
  yeah, I say that but at least I like a little
• 46:40
  spice on my turkey. That's true No, I think there's
• 46:44
  something to be said for like this like just
• 46:47
  simple sandwiches and just simple Ingredients
• 46:50
  you can really explore a lot true, and I think
• 46:53
  that's the same with even even just regular life
• 46:57
  You know I had to do it I agree Well, it's like
• 47:02
  there's a it's fun because things are complicated,
• 47:05
  but it's like if we can make it simple. It's
• 47:06
  also really beautiful That's true. Yeah, like
• 47:09
  yeah, there's beauty in trying to make something
• 47:11
  simple Yeah, getting to simplicity on the other
• 47:14
  side of complexity is awesome. Yeah, it's almost
• 47:18
  like that's kind of what you see with the creation
• 47:20
  story. It's the idea that there was chaos, there
• 47:22
  was a lot of things going on, and then there
• 47:24
  was some simplicity or order created on the other
• 47:27
  side of the chaos. So in the complexity, there
• 47:31
  was simplicity and order created out of it. It
• 47:34
  wasn't just like, this is simple. It's like,
• 47:36
  no, this is super complex and it's going to be
• 47:40
  made simple. Yeah, which is very cool. I think
• 47:42
  that's the cool thing. Yeah Yeah, yeah, I like
• 47:45
  that. Yeah, so you have some thoughts tonight.
• 47:47
  I had one or two. Yeah What are your thoughts
• 47:50
  tonight? Well, you know, they all kind of formulated
• 47:52
  into into a question. Okay So your sandwich your
• 47:56
  favorite my favorite I wonder what do we have
• 48:06
  to do to be considered like a padre? I think
• 48:11
  you have to be a man. Well, that mean, yeah.
• 48:14
  Isn't that what it means? Halfway there. Man.
• 48:17
  I think that's what it means. Just become a priest.
• 48:18
  Well, Padre means father. Right. Yeah. Yeah.
• 48:21
  So a father, a Catholic father. But you could
• 48:24
  just be a father, like have a kid. That's true.
• 48:26
  So you're Padre Stephen. I am. You could call
• 48:30
  me that. I'll do it. Some do. At least two do.
• 48:34
  Call me Papa. Oh, man, but you know so um question
• 48:42
  for you, okay? Okay, let's do it No segue no
• 48:47
  segue question question cuz I don't have time
• 48:49
  to figure out Okay, I think we already did I
• 48:53
  think we perfectly segue so speaking of sandwiches
• 48:55
  There's a particular kind of protein that people
• 49:01
  put on sandwich Yes, Paul Turkey. They got me
• 49:09
  thinking. The one I love. I said I wouldn't segue
• 49:16
  and I was like, let me find a cheesy one. Another
• 49:19
  segue, you hear that? The one I love. Turkey,
• 49:22
  the one I love. You're the one that I love. That's
• 49:26
  not how it goes. I still did it in the rhythm.
• 49:29
  Oh, yeah. Yeah. So tell me about Turkey. So I
• 49:32
  was hoping you could. OK. So Turkey. Okay. Was
• 49:36
  Turkey. Okay. The country. Okay. Not the protein.
• 49:41
  Got it. Turkey. Still pretty protein -y. Got
• 49:45
  a point. A little dry. True. Was... Mostly surrounded
• 49:51
  by water though. If we're honest. Condiments.
• 49:59
  You got the Mediterranean Sea, you got the Aegean
• 50:01
  Sea, you got the Black Sea. I love it at this
• 50:04
  point. I'm actually just trying to remember the
• 50:06
  question. Let me help you. Was Turkey the first
• 50:14
  original land of exile? That's an interesting
• 50:23
  question. Was Turkey the... Was Turkey the original
• 50:27
  land of exile? Yeah. How does that strike you?
• 50:33
  It strikes me fancy, Paul. Say more. So Turkey
• 50:38
  as the original land of exile. So this is something
• 50:41
  that we've kind of hinted at a little bit throughout,
• 50:43
  is the idea that like right now, especially as
• 50:46
  Protestant Christians, particularly in America,
• 50:50
  there's so much emphasis on Israel. And Israel,
• 50:54
  like, In the same way that like yeah in the same
• 50:57
  way that people go to church or like Well church
• 50:59
  is not the four walls of a building and blow.
• 51:02
  It's the people that are inside But it's like
• 51:12
  it's like yeah, yes, and all of the things are
• 51:15
  important But bringing all those things together
• 51:18
  in proper balance, but the thing is is like Christians
• 51:22
  particularly Protestant Christian again like
• 51:24
  it goes back to this this idea that like Israel
• 51:28
  is super important and yeah, and the truth is
• 51:31
  is like like Israel is important in the in the
• 51:36
  biblical narrative and in prophetic narrative
• 51:40
  the prophetic pieces literature of the Bible
• 51:45
  like the things that are to come and so like
• 51:48
  Israel is this important thing and there is some
• 51:51
  separation of the land itself and the people
• 51:55
  But we put a lot of emphasis on the location
• 51:57
  and I don't want to take anything away from that
• 52:00
  Yeah, however, I feel like there's a lot of land
• 52:03
  that's just kind of ignored but talked about
• 52:05
  a ton in the Bible. Yes and Particularly this
• 52:10
  place called modern -day modern -day Turkey.
• 52:13
  Yeah. Yeah, right and modern -day Turkey is like
• 52:17
  this very specific place, which we've talked
• 52:19
  about before as being this critical place, when
• 52:23
  we talked about Pergamum. Yeah. Because Turkey
• 52:27
  is, like I said, it's up above Israel and it's
• 52:32
  kind of the gateway to the West. Because it's
• 52:34
  that Asia Minor area. It is. Yeah, so like it's
• 52:38
  right above Israel and it kind of pokes out into
• 52:40
  these three different seas. And it gives you
• 52:44
  passageway into Italy. Gives you passageway into
• 52:47
  Rome, into Europe. So it really like going to
• 52:52
  the ends of the earth for the disciples, going
• 52:57
  through Turkey was major. In fact, Paul goes
• 53:02
  through Turkey constantly, is constantly going
• 53:05
  through Turkey. I mean, you mentioned the Pergamum,
• 53:11
  and it's like we see the other seven churches
• 53:13
  that are all there. And it's like, that's a major
• 53:15
  grounding point for the New Testament, what we
• 53:19
  see written. It's like, a lot of it was written
• 53:20
  to the people there in Asia Minor. Yeah, so like,
• 53:23
  or in modern day Turkey. Just thinking about
• 53:25
  that for a second. I mean, that's kind of jumping
• 53:27
  to the end. Yeah. Meaning like, well, let's just
• 53:31
  start there because that's probably the thing
• 53:34
  that's the most fresh. It's the easiest thing
• 53:35
  to grab onto. Yeah. So like, so if you go, all
• 53:38
  right, well, what about Turkey? So, um, before
• 53:41
  we get to like, is it the original land of exile?
• 53:45
  Yeah. Yeah. Kind of look at it in the light of
• 53:47
  the first and second century and go, all right.
• 53:51
  So for the apostles, like, what is that? What
• 53:53
  is, what does Turkey look like for the New Testament?
• 53:56
  And, um, if you go back and watch that Pergamum
• 53:59
  episode, we kind of, we kind of jump into a few
• 54:02
  different things and like how that that the Asia
• 54:05
  Minor was handed off to Rome. It was actually
• 54:07
  gifted to Rome. And because it was, it opened
• 54:11
  up this gateway for missionaries like Paul to
• 54:15
  go out and spread the gospel. And we talked about
• 54:19
  the idea that Revelation, the book of Revelation,
• 54:22
  the seven churches of Revelation, they're all
• 54:25
  in the Asia Minor. And that's interesting to
• 54:28
  me because I always go, well, Asia's the other
• 54:31
  way. Right? So like that's that's kind of a confusing
• 54:35
  thing I think in some ways except that like when
• 54:38
  you start to go up and over You're kind of going
• 54:41
  into the Asian territory, right? But this direction
• 54:45
  you don't really think of I always think of Asia
• 54:47
  Minor as like that's where the Wiseman came from,
• 54:49
  right? But I think of like everything is here
• 54:51
  and that's over here, right? Yeah. Yeah, but
• 54:53
  it's like from and I and my starting point is
• 54:56
  Israel. Yeah So like, that's the thing is like
• 54:58
  my starting point is Israel and Israel is kind
• 55:00
  of in the middle of these different things. And
• 55:02
  when we talk about exile, like Egypt's below
• 55:04
  it, Turkey's above it. So there's, it's like,
• 55:09
  eventually there's a land of exile, which is
• 55:12
  Egypt. There's also a land of exile, which is
• 55:17
  Babylon, which is a little bit more East, right?
• 55:21
  And so you get this. this movement here in Turkey
• 55:26
  itself is seven churches. In fact, Patmos is
• 55:32
  an island off of Turkey in the Asia Minor. And
• 55:38
  so you have the Apostle John, the Revelator,
• 55:41
  like all of that stuff is happening through.
• 55:43
  Plus in Turkey, you have the church in Ephesus.
• 55:47
  So Ephesus, the book of Ephesians is written
• 55:50
  to the church in Turkey, Ephesus. I think it's
• 55:55
  like the west side of Turkey. And then you have
• 55:59
  Koloss, Colossians. So the book of Colossians
• 56:04
  is written. That's a letter from Paul to the
• 56:09
  church in Colossi. Yeah, and that's in Turkey.
• 56:15
  And then again, the seven churches in Revelation.
• 56:17
  Then you also have Philemon. who Philemon was
• 56:21
  written to the guy in Pergamum, right? Isn't
• 56:26
  Galatia an Asian minor as well? So Galatia is
• 56:29
  a massive one because Galatia is central Turkey.
• 56:33
  That's right, yeah. Galatia is like, it kind
• 56:36
  of takes up Turkey. It's like the Gauls, which
• 56:40
  that's a whole other... That's a big one. That's
• 56:42
  a big episode that we need to get into at some
• 56:45
  point. Yeah, so Galatia is right in the middle.
• 56:48
  So you're talking about the opening letters of
• 56:51
  Revelation to the churches. It's the churches
• 56:54
  in the Asia Minor. It's the churches in Turkey.
• 56:57
  And again, Asia Minor encompasses a larger area.
• 57:04
  But Turkey is the main, like modern day Turkey,
• 57:07
  yeah. Because the boundaries don't line up the
• 57:10
  same way. No, and they wouldn't. Like over time
• 57:13
  that stuff shifts and things like that and stuff
• 57:15
  gets parceled out and wars and all that stuff.
• 57:18
  But that being said, so you have Ephesians written
• 57:22
  to Turkey, to Church in Turkey, Colossians, Philemon,
• 57:26
  but then you also have people like Timothy. And
• 57:30
  Timothy, like so first and second Timothy, Is
• 57:34
  written to Timothy from Paul and Timothy is from
• 57:38
  Cyprus Cyprus Cyrus He's from Turkey. Okay. Yeah,
• 57:44
  so and the crazy thing is so is Paul because
• 57:47
  Paul is from Tarsus Yeah, and Tarsus is also
• 57:51
  in Turkey. So right now everything that we've
• 57:54
  talked about in the New Testament is Turkey It's
• 57:57
  central in Turkey. Yeah, it's either out of Turkey
• 58:00
  Wow, so like and what that means is a lot of
• 58:03
  the reason why the new testament is written in
• 58:07
  greek is because of all the communication that
• 58:11
  was happening in and through turkey yeah that
• 58:14
  makes sense and like going over into europe which
• 58:17
  eventually would be europe yeah so like that's
• 58:20
  that's kind of an interesting right so like turkey
• 58:22
  is like it does take us out of israel it does
• 58:25
  yeah but that's what happens after when jesus
• 58:28
  ascends Yeah, true. Because Jesus, he says he
• 58:31
  came for the lost sheep of Israel. And then he
• 58:34
  says, go and tell all the earth. And we talked
• 58:36
  about that before, Isaiah 66. That's a massive
• 58:39
  one. Yeah. So Turkey becomes a pretty key land
• 58:48
  and location for... I mean, that's basically
• 58:50
  the highway for them. It is. Yeah. So yeah, I
• 58:53
  mean, that's pretty interesting. And there's
• 58:55
  a lot of like critical things that we've found
• 58:57
  recently about that specifically. But yeah, so
• 59:02
  yeah, I mean, that's kind of the ending point
• 59:04
  in some ways. So take us to the beginning. OK.
• 59:07
  Let's, I'm sure you're wondering how we got here.
• 59:11
  Yeah, so, oh, is it Cilicilia? Cilicia? Cilicia,
• 59:21
  Cilicia. Cilicia, Cilicia. Yeah, I'm just, you
• 59:23
  can't even see what I'm looking at. I'm just
• 59:25
  like moving stuff around. I'm just pretending
• 59:27
  like I'm gonna help. But there's a lot of things
• 59:28
  that happen in Asia Minor and that's a critical
• 59:33
  thing. So like that's why we keep saying Asia
• 59:34
  Minor because it's the region that like you've
• 59:37
  heard of before. Yeah. Which is basically like
• 59:39
  a northern cap of Israel and it kind of tilts
• 59:42
  off to the west. Yeah. But it is Israel's entry
• 59:46
  point into the west. So, yeah, I was trying to
• 59:51
  see where, I'm pretty sure Timothy is from Cilicillia,
• 59:55
  Cilicia, Cilicia. If you want to know how to
• 59:59
  say it, Google will tell you. We're not doing
• 1:00:03
  a good job of that. Yeah. So here's the interesting
• 1:00:08
  thing to me, okay? So let's go all the way back
• 1:00:11
  to the beginning, which is what your first question
• 1:00:12
  is, right? Yeah. So we just talked about the
• 1:00:15
  New Testament. That's the back end. So Turkey
• 1:00:18
  is mentioned when? It's mentioned at the end
• 1:00:20
  of the Bible, the 66th book of Revelation. It's
• 1:00:26
  mentioned in all of those churches in there.
• 1:00:31
  And then also like, I actually don't know the
• 1:00:33
  relationship of Babylon. Like Babylon moves over
• 1:00:36
  more into Iraq, doesn't it? I think so. Modern
• 1:00:38
  day Iraq. I think so, yeah. So that would be
• 1:00:40
  more... old like more traditional Mesopotamia.
• 1:00:45
  So that kind of moves over in that direction,
• 1:00:47
  which is a little bit more east of Israel instead
• 1:00:51
  of north where Turkey is. Yeah. And southern
• 1:00:54
  parts of Turkey and things like that are people
• 1:00:57
  would consider some of that maybe part of northern
• 1:01:01
  Mesopotamia. Right. Like the northernmost part
• 1:01:04
  of it. It would be like parts of lower Turkey.
• 1:01:06
  Yeah. Southern Turkey. But. Southern Turkey.
• 1:01:10
  Give me some Southern Turkey. So here's something
• 1:01:17
  that's interesting. When you bring up the idea
• 1:01:21
  of exile, we can kind of work backwards to the
• 1:01:24
  beginning with that as well. So just the language
• 1:01:26
  of exile, right? And most people think of the
• 1:01:29
  Exodus. Yes. And the Exodus is interesting because
• 1:01:32
  we've talked about the idea that when Abram makes
• 1:01:34
  a covenant with God, and God tells him that he'll
• 1:01:39
  be the father of many nations, but those nations,
• 1:01:42
  they will be exiled and for 400 years until the...
• 1:01:50
  What is it? The time of the Amorites. The iniquity
• 1:01:52
  of the Amorites. Complete. Yeah. Yeah. So you
• 1:01:55
  get all these moments of exile. You also get
• 1:01:57
  Nebuchadnezzar in Babylon where the children
• 1:02:00
  of Israel have turned away from God. Yeah. And
• 1:02:05
  Israel falls and is torn apart and everybody
• 1:02:08
  is exiled again after Egypt into into Babylon.
• 1:02:14
  And then eventually to return the second, second
• 1:02:17
  temple period. Um, we get a lot of crazy things,
• 1:02:21
  but, um, but yeah, so, um, exile, breaking all
• 1:02:27
  of that down into those. So really we think of
• 1:02:31
  exile in the Exodus, but in some ways, the first
• 1:02:35
  exile is actually from the garden. True. So the
• 1:02:40
  very first exile, starting at the beginning,
• 1:02:44
  is when Adam and Eve and the ancient serpent
• 1:02:48
  are kicked out of the garden. And then there
• 1:02:51
  are cherubim, guardian cherub that are placed
• 1:02:55
  at the gates with... The east and the west, I
• 1:02:57
  think, right? Yeah. So they're placed there.
• 1:03:01
  So there is an initial exile. And the initial
• 1:03:04
  exile is out of the garden. in a separation from
• 1:03:09
  God, right? So like that's where the concept
• 1:03:13
  of like, where does sin come from? It's the separation
• 1:03:17
  from the turning away from what God's desires
• 1:03:21
  are and from God Himself. And so that is that
• 1:03:25
  first exile, which is kind of interesting. Because
• 1:03:28
  then you go like, okay, so where did the first
• 1:03:32
  exile take place? And that's a question people
• 1:03:34
  have been debating for years. It is. Yeah. Because
• 1:03:37
  you go, well, like if we really knew. Yeah. Then
• 1:03:41
  that would be a hot spot. Right. And potentially
• 1:03:44
  it would be like, all right, well, let's let's
• 1:03:47
  like a lot of people might even argue. I think
• 1:03:50
  a lot of people do argue that Eden was in the
• 1:03:54
  promised land. There are people that argue that
• 1:03:55
  Eden would have been in Israel or potentially
• 1:03:58
  like people that believe that which this is a
• 1:04:02
  whole other episode. Where is the Garden of Eden?
• 1:04:05
  Right. We haven't done that episode, have we?
• 1:04:07
  We haven't. Okay. I think we've talked briefly
• 1:04:10
  about it, or maybe about doing an episode on
• 1:04:11
  it. Yeah. And this is kind of teasing it more.
• 1:04:14
  Okay. That's what it sounds like in a way. Yeah.
• 1:04:17
  Yeah, we've definitely talked about the garden,
• 1:04:19
  but... Yeah. Yeah, we never talked about where
• 1:04:23
  it might be. Yeah. But it is interesting, because
• 1:04:27
  again, it's like with that view of central...
• 1:04:31
  like Israel is central, we just assume, at least
• 1:04:34
  I assume that, oh, everything just kind of happens
• 1:04:36
  around it. Yeah. And we're all fighting for that
• 1:04:39
  line because that is like the land. Yeah. But
• 1:04:41
  then when you look at it, it's like, oh, actually,
• 1:04:43
  like a lot of the some of the better lands aren't
• 1:04:46
  there. Yeah. Israel isn't the Fertile Crescent.
• 1:04:50
  Right. Yeah, it's not technically. Yeah. It may
• 1:04:54
  be like the outskirts of it. Right. It's like
• 1:04:56
  a piece of it, but it's not like where we think
• 1:04:59
  of Mesopotamia, where it's like they've got the
• 1:05:01
  cream of the crop. Yeah, which is more inland.
• 1:05:05
  But that's because there are these critical bodies
• 1:05:10
  of water, right? So then you go like, all right,
• 1:05:13
  well, if the first exile is out of the garden,
• 1:05:16
  then to what land are they exiled? And you kind
• 1:05:20
  of think they're just scattered throughout the
• 1:05:22
  whole earth. Yeah. But we don't really know what
• 1:05:25
  that means. Uh, to be completely honest. Right.
• 1:05:28
  Uh, so, so the fact is, is like, okay, well,
• 1:05:31
  where did they go? Well, what do we know about
• 1:05:33
  Eden? Like, what is it that we actually know
• 1:05:35
  about Eden? Because there are some descriptors
• 1:05:38
  of Eden. The rivers are a big one. The rivers
• 1:05:40
  are a massive one. Yeah. So if you, if you look
• 1:05:43
  at that and you go, all right, well, what do
• 1:05:45
  you mean by the rivers are an important one?
• 1:05:49
  Well, um, and actually, I don't have that direct
• 1:05:54
  passage. I have the next. Is it the mountain
• 1:05:57
  one? No, the rivers. Because that is another
• 1:06:00
  thing that can be inferred, that it was most
• 1:06:02
  likely on a mountain. Oh, I see what you're saying.
• 1:06:05
  That comes from Ezekiel 28, I believe. Yeah,
• 1:06:14
  so Genesis 2, 10. A river flowed out of Eden
• 1:06:19
  to water the garden, and there it divided. and
• 1:06:23
  became four rivers. So a river flowed out of
• 1:06:26
  Eden to water the garden, which means that Eden
• 1:06:30
  was a land. And from Eden, a river flowed to
• 1:06:34
  water the garden of Eden. And there it divided,
• 1:06:39
  in the garden it divided and became four rivers.
• 1:06:43
  So there's Eden, spring, source of water, right?
• 1:06:49
  Which, what do we know about geography? that
• 1:06:53
  pretty much all rivers start at the peaks of
• 1:06:55
  mountains. So the idea that Eden would be the
• 1:06:59
  mountain of God and that the water would come
• 1:07:03
  from Eden and then in the garden it would split
• 1:07:08
  off into four rivers that go over the rest, go
• 1:07:13
  down from the mountain, right? So it kind of
• 1:07:16
  paints this image of like there's the mountain
• 1:07:18
  of God and then all life flows from it. Yeah,
• 1:07:22
  which is cool, which is really cool image especially
• 1:07:24
  for like the complete piece of like across every
• 1:07:28
  direction in every direction Yeah, so like that's
• 1:07:30
  why like you kind of go like all right. Well.
• 1:07:33
  What are the four rivers? Can we go back and
• 1:07:35
  look at them right? Shout out for rivers barbecue
• 1:07:39
  That's actually what it's named after. Is that
• 1:07:41
  what they named it? That's pretty cool. I like
• 1:07:43
  that. Yeah, so for real, shout out because we'd
• 1:07:45
  love for you to be a sponsor. This is your ad.
• 1:07:48
  Yeah. But yeah, so that idea... A southern turkey.
• 1:07:52
  Give me some of that southern turkey. That four
• 1:07:54
  river southern turkey. Give me some of that four
• 1:07:55
  river southern turkey flowing from the mountain
• 1:07:57
  of God. It's flowing down from the mountain of
• 1:08:02
  God. That's something preaching right there.
• 1:08:06
  Oh, whoops. My bad. But then it goes in and says,
• 1:08:11
  the name of the first is the Pishon. So the funny
• 1:08:15
  thing is like the first thing I think of Pishon
• 1:08:17
  is, am I saying that wrong, Pishon? I don't know,
• 1:08:20
  I'm still having about the other thing. The mountain
• 1:08:23
  of God! God! The first is Pichon. I'll never
• 1:08:29
  get nail marks in my head. I've been to St. Lucia,
• 1:08:34
  which is awesome, in the Caribbean, and I think
• 1:08:37
  Pichon is the name of the mountain there, which
• 1:08:40
  is interesting. That's cool. Yeah, but way far
• 1:08:42
  away from this. Or maybe not, who knows. It says,
• 1:08:49
  a river flowed out of Eden to water the garden
• 1:08:51
  and they're divided and became four rivers, the
• 1:08:54
  barbecue. The name of the first is the Pishon.
• 1:08:57
  It is the one that flowed around the whole land
• 1:09:00
  of Havala where there is gold. And the gold of
• 1:09:03
  that land is good. And then it kind of goes into
• 1:09:07
  all these pieces. The name of the second river
• 1:09:09
  is Gehon. It is that flowed around the whole
• 1:09:14
  land of Cush. And the name of the third river
• 1:09:17
  is the Tigris, which flows east of Assyria. And
• 1:09:20
  the fourth river is the Euphrates. So here's
• 1:09:23
  the weird thing about this. In this description
• 1:09:26
  in Genesis two, we kind of get like this. The
• 1:09:29
  first one is Peshon. It is the one that flowed
• 1:09:32
  around the whole land of Havala where there is
• 1:09:35
  gold. It's almost like it's giving you a clue
• 1:09:38
  to something that you may or may not really know
• 1:09:40
  the actual location of. And then the next one
• 1:09:44
  is very descriptive in that as well. Because
• 1:09:47
  it even says, and the gold of that land is good.
• 1:09:51
  It's weird that it would then turn and call it
• 1:09:53
  good. And the Deleum and the Onyx stone are there.
• 1:09:59
  The name of the second river is the Gihon. It
• 1:10:01
  is the one that flowed around the whole land
• 1:10:03
  of Kush. So it is the one that flowed. But then
• 1:10:09
  it just goes, oh and then the third one is the
• 1:10:12
  Tigris. flows east of Assyria, place that we
• 1:10:16
  know. And then the fourth is the Euphrates. That's
• 1:10:19
  all it says about the Euphrates. Which is crazy.
• 1:10:21
  The fourth is the Euphrates. So the weird thing
• 1:10:24
  about this is there's so much debate around like
• 1:10:26
  where are all four rivers? Because it's pretty
• 1:10:28
  obvious where the Tigris is, pretty obvious where
• 1:10:31
  the Euphrates is. It even says like Tigris flows
• 1:10:35
  down by Assyria. So it's like well that's a modern
• 1:10:37
  day, still a modern day place. So it's like.
• 1:10:40
  We know where that is. Yeah, that gets kind of
• 1:10:43
  confusing, right? Well, the interesting thing
• 1:10:45
  is is like as you go through these particular
• 1:10:48
  Like where these rivers were and how they flowed
• 1:10:53
  There's a couple of things Two of these rivers
• 1:10:58
  the ones that we know about That are like kind
• 1:11:01
  of obvious the river heads Meaning the starting
• 1:11:06
  point of these rivers run from Turkey. So the
• 1:11:11
  Tigris River runs from Turkey through Iraq, modern
• 1:11:16
  day. The Euphrates River begins in Turkey and
• 1:11:20
  flows through Syria and Iraq. So two of the rivers
• 1:11:23
  that we know about in Genesis 2 actually start,
• 1:11:27
  they find their origin in Turkey. That's crazy.
• 1:11:30
  It is crazy. Yeah, that's very interesting. You
• 1:11:36
  think about that for a second and you kind of
• 1:11:38
  go like, all right, well, two of the four rivers
• 1:11:41
  that were flowing down from the Mountain of God
• 1:11:43
  that were split up at the point of the garden
• 1:11:46
  and split out, two of them are there. And can
• 1:11:50
  I ask, is it more central, like central Turkey
• 1:11:52
  or southern Turkey? Where those origin points
• 1:11:55
  are, do you know? Yeah, I don't know. Okay. I'd
• 1:11:57
  have to like pull up a map. I was just curious
• 1:11:59
  because I might have wild thought. What's the
• 1:12:03
  wild thought? okay you ready yeah well so there's
• 1:12:07
  another really big um area in southern turkey
• 1:12:14
  okay and what's that called which is mount erat
• 1:12:17
  oh right wait before you get there okay okay
• 1:12:19
  okay do you know what mesopotamia actually means
• 1:12:21
  i don't mesopotamia literally means between the
• 1:12:25
  rivers in greek That's pretty interesting. And
• 1:12:29
  it's referring to the land between the Tigris
• 1:12:31
  and the Euphrates. Oh, really? Yeah. So Mesopotamia
• 1:12:35
  literally means... It's between those two rivers.
• 1:12:37
  It's between those two rivers. That's crazy.
• 1:12:40
  Yeah. So that's kind of cool. That's really cool,
• 1:12:42
  actually. It is. Wow. So yeah. No, I was curious
• 1:12:46
  where that origin point was because anyone listening,
• 1:12:51
  if they know anything, which I feel like you
• 1:12:52
  don't have to be... even a Christian to know
• 1:12:54
  this, especially recently, it's becoming a bit
• 1:12:57
  of a topic. Yeah. When it's like the mountains
• 1:12:59
  of error at. Right. That's where biblical account,
• 1:13:05
  and then there's some archeological potential
• 1:13:07
  evidence that that's where Noah's Ark was. Yeah.
• 1:13:10
  Wait, let's not get there yet. Okay. Sorry, I
• 1:13:12
  said that once already. You did, and he let me
• 1:13:14
  go there. I was like, I guess he's ready. No,
• 1:13:18
  because, so that's Genesis 2. Yeah. That's Genesis
• 1:13:21
  2, and then... jumping ahead to Genesis 4. Noah's
• 1:13:26
  Ark is in Genesis 2. Let me just... What? No,
• 1:13:30
  it's not. I know. You just said that's Genesis
• 1:13:32
  2. And I was like, let me make sure everybody
• 1:13:35
  listening is like, it's not in Genesis 2. So
• 1:13:38
  here's something else that's interesting. And
• 1:13:39
  you're like, are you guys just going to do a
• 1:13:41
  whole episode on Turkey? Yes. Yeah. We are. Welcome.
• 1:13:45
  Welcome to the episode on Turkey. Clearly it's
• 1:13:47
  your first time. This episode's title is turkey.
• 1:13:52
  Eat some. Get some. Four Rivers Southern Barbecue
• 1:13:58
  Turkey. Get you some. That's the turkey of God.
• 1:14:03
  Brought to you by Four Rivers Barbecue. Please
• 1:14:05
  sponsor us. We will eat all your food. If you
• 1:14:09
  hear a discount code here, that means they did.
• 1:14:12
  Even if you didn't, just believe in faith with
• 1:14:14
  us. Just try a martyr's row. Just try it. When
• 1:14:19
  you go to the counter next time, just say, yeah,
• 1:14:21
  I'll have the martyr's row. That actually would
• 1:14:24
  be wild. Give me that hot Slovenian. That's spicy.
• 1:14:29
  But to go to a barbecue place and say, give me
• 1:14:31
  the martyr's row. Like, you want ribs or? Sir,
• 1:14:37
  we don't serve human here. Sorry, I went all
• 1:14:43
  the way there. Our code is get martyred. Yikes.
• 1:14:50
  Yikes. Please don't let that be our code. Okay,
• 1:14:55
  so we're coming out of... No, please let it be.
• 1:15:00
  Let it be, let it be. No, so okay, so Genesis
• 1:15:04
  2, we see that there are these two rivers that
• 1:15:07
  are part of the four rivers and the individual
• 1:15:09
  river that comes out of Eden. And two of those
• 1:15:13
  rivers, modern day, are in like the head of the
• 1:15:17
  river is in Turkey. So that makes that pretty
• 1:15:20
  interesting. So you go like, original land of
• 1:15:23
  exile. Well, okay, original land of exile. What
• 1:15:25
  does that mean? Well, first exiles out of Eden.
• 1:15:28
  Okay, now we're all caught up. Welcome. So the
• 1:15:33
  crazy thing about that is you kind of jump through
• 1:15:37
  and we go to, okay, Cain and Abel, right? Cain
• 1:15:40
  and Abel are born and it is a tumultuous relationship.
• 1:15:45
  To say the least. It's kind of a lose -lose situation.
• 1:15:49
  And I'm just gonna jump to something that is
• 1:15:51
  partial speculation, but I'm gonna throw it out
• 1:15:53
  there. Sweet. So in Genesis 4 this part's not
• 1:15:57
  speculation. This is literally what said It says
• 1:16:01
  Cain knew his wife and she conceived and bore
• 1:16:04
  Enoch when he built a city He called the name
• 1:16:06
  of the city after the name of his son Enoch to
• 1:16:09
  Enoch was born I rad and I rad fathered Why am
• 1:16:12
  I doing this? He had some children. He followed
• 1:16:18
  Methuselah, and Methuselah fathered Lamech, and
• 1:16:21
  Lamech took two wives. The name of the one was
• 1:16:24
  Adah, and the name of the other Zillah. And we've
• 1:16:27
  done an episode on like, all of these names mean
• 1:16:29
  something, and it's telling us something. But
• 1:16:32
  what I'm going to tell you is coming up. I will
• 1:16:34
  say, just to make sure, you started with Cain?
• 1:16:37
  I did. Yeah. But then you're going to Methuselah.
• 1:16:40
  I'm not going where you're going. No, but then
• 1:16:42
  you jumped to Methuselah. I was like, that's
• 1:16:43
  not one of Cain's... Oh, sorry. Methusiel. Thank
• 1:16:47
  you. Okay. Yeah. I was like, let me just make
• 1:16:49
  sure, because this is really important. Methusiel.
• 1:16:51
  Yeah. And then Methusiel fathered Lamech and
• 1:16:55
  Lamech. And there's several repeating names in
• 1:16:58
  the Bible, by the way. And then jumping ahead,
• 1:17:02
  like, okay, so brothers, yeah, he was the father
• 1:17:05
  of those who dwell in the tents and have livestock.
• 1:17:07
  His brother's name was Jubal. and he was the
• 1:17:11
  father of all those who play the lyre and pipe.
• 1:17:14
  So it starts naming what these individuals are
• 1:17:17
  known for. This is kind of the first time this
• 1:17:19
  is happening. So in Genesis four, it's like,
• 1:17:21
  all right, this guy, he was known for all of
• 1:17:26
  these things, which we'll go back to how did
• 1:17:30
  they learn that? At some point. I mean, that
• 1:17:33
  kind of jumps back into the myth conversation
• 1:17:35
  that we've had. It can. It also jumps into Where
• 1:17:40
  is knowledge coming from during this time period?
• 1:17:44
  And that's, I mean again, that's the knowledge
• 1:17:45
  bringer myths. Yes. We've talked about, yeah.
• 1:17:48
  Yeah. And then it says, Zila also bore two -ball
• 1:17:53
  cane, and he was the forger of all instruments
• 1:17:56
  of bronze and iron. The sister of two -ball cane
• 1:17:59
  was Nehma. So let me stop right there. Two -ball
• 1:18:03
  cane. Do you know what I'm about to say? I actually,
• 1:18:06
  I don't know if I do. So two -ball. is a modern
• 1:18:09
  -day city. Yes. In Turkey. Yes. I think I know
• 1:18:15
  what you're talking about. And there's some speculation
• 1:18:17
  that Tubal, Cain, that the land of Tubal was
• 1:18:22
  named after him. Oh, okay. Or he's associated
• 1:18:25
  with that area and that region. That makes sense.
• 1:18:27
  So it's like, basically what I'm going to is
• 1:18:29
  like Genesis 4, you kind of have these different
• 1:18:33
  people that are spread out that are known for
• 1:18:35
  different things. And Tubal Cain was a son of
• 1:18:38
  Cain, or descendant of Cain, and he's in this
• 1:18:43
  Turkey region. Now here's what I'm gonna throw
• 1:18:46
  out, because that is like, they would say, a
• 1:18:49
  lot of people say that that's probably who's
• 1:18:52
  associated with that area in Turkey. I'm going
• 1:18:56
  to say, again, I'll side with the speculative,
• 1:19:01
  but I'm going to throw out a piece of information
• 1:19:03
  that is pretty interesting just to know. So if
• 1:19:09
  Tubal Cain, descendant of Cain, is associated
• 1:19:12
  with Tubal, Turkey, that is interesting because
• 1:19:17
  if you are or have been a drummer for a long
• 1:19:21
  time, you would know that Turkish symbols are
• 1:19:25
  the best symbols. And the reason why they are
• 1:19:28
  the best symbols is because symbols were invented
• 1:19:33
  or came onto the scene around three to 4 ,000
• 1:19:36
  BC. So where we see in the archeological records
• 1:19:41
  is that symbols, like the... musical instrument,
• 1:19:45
  a symbol, comes around in around three to four
• 1:19:48
  thousand B .C. The interesting thing is is the
• 1:19:50
  origins happen simultaneous. So the origins are
• 1:19:55
  Turkey and China. They kind of independently
• 1:19:58
  happen around the same time. So like, I don't
• 1:20:00
  know if someone went over or whatever, but that
• 1:20:03
  tends to happen. Yeah, so around three to 4 ,000
• 1:20:10
  BC is when symbols were created and symbols were
• 1:20:14
  created basically in Turkey. like an easy thing
• 1:20:20
  is like the Zildjian family kind of carries on
• 1:20:23
  that idea. But the thing that's interesting about
• 1:20:26
  that in particular is 2 -Ball Kane. Zilla also
• 1:20:31
  bore 2 -Ball Kane. This is Genesis 422. He was
• 1:20:35
  the forager of all instruments of bronze and
• 1:20:39
  iron. That's so crazy. I grew up as a drummer
• 1:20:44
  being like, yeah, the best cymbals are Turkish
• 1:20:46
  cymbals. Not realizing that the Bible literally
• 1:20:50
  says - It actually goes back to that. That in
• 1:20:52
  Genesis 422, that two -ball cane was the - He
• 1:20:56
  invented it. He basically, yeah. I mean, instruments
• 1:20:59
  of bronze. Yeah. It's like, okay, well - That's
• 1:21:02
  so crazy. That could be talking about trumpets.
• 1:21:05
  It could be talking about, you know what I mean?
• 1:21:06
  Yeah. But also cymbals. I mean, it makes sense
• 1:21:09
  that it would be. Yeah. Yeah, dude. It makes
• 1:21:13
  sense that it would be. I'm going with probably.
• 1:21:16
  Oh, yeah. I'm going with yeah, dude. Drums are
• 1:21:21
  the devil. They're the line of cane at least.
• 1:21:24
  Oh, no. Drums are OK, but not the cymbals. No,
• 1:21:29
  yeah, yeah, yeah. And the particular one's made
• 1:21:31
  of bronze. Yeah. That's why electric drums for
• 1:21:35
  the win. No, yeah. But I thought that was pretty
• 1:21:38
  interesting. That's really fascinating. So then
• 1:21:39
  we can jump to Genesis 8. Yeah. And actually,
• 1:21:44
  we're going to end up jumping around a little
• 1:21:47
  bit here, potentially. Well, Genesis, Genesis.
• 1:21:51
  Genesis. Genesis 8, 3b. At the end of 150 days,
• 1:21:57
  the water had abated. And in the seventh month,
• 1:22:00
  on the 17th day of the month, the ark came to
• 1:22:03
  rest on the mountains of Ararat. and the waters
• 1:22:06
  continued to abate until the tenth month, and
• 1:22:08
  the tenth month of, on the first day of the month,
• 1:22:11
  and the tops of the mountains were seen. On the
• 1:22:13
  first day of the month. Of the tenth month. Yeah,
• 1:22:19
  so Genesis 8, it talks about Noah and Noah's
• 1:22:23
  ark, and the flood happening, and the waters
• 1:22:26
  subsiding, and Noah's ark is landing where? Yeah,
• 1:22:30
  in the mountains of Ararat. Right, which is in
• 1:22:32
  southern Turkey. Yes. So once again Turkey kind
• 1:22:37
  of interesting and the one thing that I will
• 1:22:38
  say we just talked about Turkey three times In
• 1:22:41
  the first eight chapters of Genesis. Yeah. Yeah,
• 1:22:44
  that's crazy. It's pretty wild. Yeah. Well, I
• 1:22:46
  think that what you know, we didn't talk about
• 1:22:48
  at all Israel It becomes very important later
• 1:22:57
  it does just right now hasn't come up yet. Believe
• 1:23:04
  it or not. So digging more into the question
• 1:23:06
  of was Turkey the first land of exile? Well,
• 1:23:10
  so what's interesting about this as well is with
• 1:23:15
  Noah's Ark, it was made to just kind of stay
• 1:23:20
  alive. Right. He wasn't trying to go anywhere.
• 1:23:23
  Right. He was just trying to not die. Right.
• 1:23:26
  And so. There's a lot of smarter people that
• 1:23:29
  have put the work in on this. Thank you smart
• 1:23:32
  people. Thank you smart people. And some of the
• 1:23:34
  archaeological things they found in that area
• 1:23:37
  are these, I can't remember the actual name of
• 1:23:40
  it, but there's like these anchor stones. Okay.
• 1:23:42
  And it's these massive stones that would have
• 1:23:44
  been attached to a boat. Right. And the only
• 1:23:46
  purpose is that it just anchors you down, so
• 1:23:48
  it's like you're not going anywhere. Right. And
• 1:23:50
  so... The thought is that a lot of these would
• 1:23:53
  have been attached to the arc. Yeah to make sure
• 1:23:55
  the arc didn't go anywhere Which was it now again?
• 1:23:58
  They're not trying to move. They're just trying
• 1:23:59
  to not drown Yeah, so basically what you're getting
• 1:24:02
  at is there's a really high probability that
• 1:24:05
  the that Noah's arc never actually Moved or floated
• 1:24:09
  at least not very far, right? So the fact that
• 1:24:13
  it landed in southern Turkey probably mean it
• 1:24:15
  originated you started out somewhere in southern
• 1:24:18
  Turkey. And probably if you're gonna build an
• 1:24:21
  ark, I'd go pretty high up. You're gonna go on
• 1:24:23
  a mountain. Yeah. So like, yeah. Like best case
• 1:24:27
  scenario went from one mountain to another mountain.
• 1:24:30
  Right. Or from one part of the mountain. To another
• 1:24:33
  section. Part of that mountain. Yeah. Yeah, so
• 1:24:36
  like thinking about that, it's like, there's
• 1:24:39
  a stronger connection to, they were probably
• 1:24:41
  starting up in this area. Right. Or he lived
• 1:24:44
  around this area. Right. Yeah. And again, we're
• 1:24:47
  in Turkey. We are in Turkey. We're not in Israel.
• 1:24:50
  Correct. Water flows south. Yeah. So I don't
• 1:24:58
  know. I think that's a fascinating idea, though.
• 1:25:00
  It is. Because it moves our geography a little
• 1:25:02
  bit. Yes, it does. Yeah. And there's several
• 1:25:06
  other people that are associated with, like that
• 1:25:09
  was one of the other things is like you kind
• 1:25:10
  of jump through who's associated with. Turkey
• 1:25:14
  the land of Turkey. Yeah, and it's a bunch of
• 1:25:17
  people I mean Noah being the main one in the
• 1:25:21
  in the Old Testament early on Genesis 4 and then
• 1:25:23
  there's another group of people and Genesis 23
• 1:25:26
  Where Abraham buys land from them? Mmm, and those
• 1:25:31
  people are the Hittite people. Oh That is a massive
• 1:25:37
  name in the Old Testament and then also you have
• 1:25:40
  sons of Noah So JFeth's descendants, that's where
• 1:25:45
  you get tribes like Gomer, Magog, Meshish, and
• 1:25:49
  Tubal, are traditionally associated with the
• 1:25:53
  region's Indonesian minor. But yeah, the Hittites,
• 1:25:56
  we know about them. The Hittites, pretty crazy.
• 1:26:00
  And it's interesting, because they are mentioned
• 1:26:01
  a lot in the Bible. They are. But we're not really
• 1:26:04
  told a lot about them. Sure, yeah. In the Bible.
• 1:26:07
  And it's kind of funny, again, it's one of those
• 1:26:09
  where it's like, who this would have been written
• 1:26:11
  to. And it's like the Hittites were one of the
• 1:26:14
  largest empires at the time. Like they were massive.
• 1:26:19
  But they are explicitly named, I think it's in
• 1:26:23
  the promise to Abraham, isn't it? There's a list
• 1:26:28
  of - And Abraham rose up from before his dead
• 1:26:32
  and said to the Hittites, I'm a sojourner. and
• 1:26:35
  foreigner among you give me property among you
• 1:26:38
  for bearing for a bearing place that I may bury
• 1:26:40
  my dead out of my sight the Hittites answered
• 1:26:43
  Abraham hear us my lord you are a prince of god
• 1:26:46
  among us bury your dead in the choices of our
• 1:26:49
  tombs none of us will withhold from you this
• 1:26:51
  tomb to hinder you from burying your dead so
• 1:26:55
  Abraham rose and bowed to the Hittites the people
• 1:26:57
  of the land so yeah yeah that's Genesis 23 and
• 1:27:02
  there and there um in turkey i mean like they're
• 1:27:06
  kind of the heart of it where the the area that
• 1:27:08
  they ruled would have been modern day like central
• 1:27:11
  turkey yeah in parts of southern yeah um but
• 1:27:17
  yeah so they the timeline that's placed on them
• 1:27:20
  for when they existed the empire existed was
• 1:27:22
  like 1600 bc to 1200 bc um but we do see still
• 1:27:29
  like hittite people after that after the empire
• 1:27:32
  falls because we see even with David to jump
• 1:27:35
  ahead to that it's like he has a Hittite soldier
• 1:27:37
  on his um that he talks to yeah and we've got
• 1:27:41
  that recorded I think it's in second Samuel 11
• 1:27:43
  um okay not that we need to go there but that's
• 1:27:47
  if anyone's curious I think that's where it's
• 1:27:49
  where he's at um but so the Hittites are are
• 1:27:54
  interesting um and so one of the things that
• 1:27:59
  I find interesting to bring up here is the gods
• 1:28:03
  that they worshiped. And so one of the most common
• 1:28:09
  god names that we see come up in the Old Testament
• 1:28:13
  is, what would you say? Uh, Baal. Yeah. But you
• 1:28:18
  know what's funny about that is Baal or Baal,
• 1:28:21
  if you want to be super crazy. It is a name for,
• 1:28:29
  I think it's the Canaanite god. their chief storm
• 1:28:32
  god yeah but it's also not a name right because
• 1:28:36
  it directly means lord right or master so them
• 1:28:40
  saying bail they're just saying lord right um
• 1:28:43
  and that's where we get titles like i think it's
• 1:28:45
  like bales above or bail had hadid yeah um and
• 1:28:49
  we do similar things with yaway um we got like
• 1:28:52
  l should i and all these names yeah um still
• 1:28:56
  like l using l yeah yeah as the root Yeah, and
• 1:29:00
  it's describing for them, like Baal's above I
• 1:29:02
  think means Lord of the Flies, it's like describing
• 1:29:04
  a very specific God. Yeah. Because Baal is just,
• 1:29:07
  that's the Lord. Right. And so, and actually
• 1:29:11
  I think I talked about this in the last episode
• 1:29:12
  or a previous one, where we see that a lot in
• 1:29:16
  the Bible where it doesn't specifically name
• 1:29:18
  many gods, if any. It does a couple times I think
• 1:29:22
  But very seldom and the reason I think it's very
• 1:29:26
  intentional and it's because it's not talking
• 1:29:28
  about one specific It's talking about all of
• 1:29:30
  them, right? It's like so when we look at the
• 1:29:33
  Hittites They worshiped as the Bible would say
• 1:29:37
  Baal but their God was Was his name he's got
• 1:29:43
  a bunch of different names because we translated
• 1:29:44
  differently, but it's like tar hunt or something
• 1:29:47
  like that But essentially, he was a storm god.
• 1:29:51
  And to place that into language that makes a
• 1:29:54
  little bit more sense, and just to draw this
• 1:29:56
  connection, storm gods are the ones that control
• 1:30:00
  the weather. Sometimes they would be like fertility
• 1:30:03
  and war. But essentially, it's like, oh, they
• 1:30:06
  were in charge of lightning. Let me just draw
• 1:30:09
  that picture right there. It's like, essentially,
• 1:30:11
  Zeus is a storm god. To kind of, again, especially
• 1:30:16
  jumping off of our myth series. It's like, yeah,
• 1:30:20
  we're attaching all these guys. We're all talking
• 1:30:22
  about the same thing here. Yeah, it's the mythological
• 1:30:28
  story of Tirana. Is that what it is? That's one
• 1:30:35
  of them. I've seen a couple of different ones.
• 1:30:37
  The spelling of it? Yeah. Is it Turunce? There's
• 1:30:41
  like, I've seen like five different ones for
• 1:30:43
  the same guy. Yeah, it says, a myth in which
• 1:30:45
  Tirana fights and is initially defeated by the
• 1:30:48
  serpent, Ilianca, but later tricks and defeats
• 1:30:52
  him. That's interesting. That's actually a very
• 1:30:56
  interesting story. Because it was one of the
• 1:31:01
  other goddesses, like threw a party and invited
• 1:31:05
  the serpent. Okay, as you do. Yeah, and the serpent
• 1:31:09
  came, got drunk, and then - As one does. Yeah,
• 1:31:13
  showed up and was like, time to die. But then,
• 1:31:17
  I can't remember what happens later, I think
• 1:31:19
  he ends up having, or one of the other stories
• 1:31:21
  says, he ends up having a son, and then I think
• 1:31:25
  the serpent takes his eye, Tarhana's eye. Whoa.
• 1:31:29
  and he wants his son to go get it back. So his
• 1:31:32
  son goes to get it back for him, but then ends
• 1:31:34
  up siding with the serpent, and they both team
• 1:31:36
  up again. It's pretty wild stuff. Some crazy
• 1:31:40
  myths. Yeah, there's some wild stuff. But okay,
• 1:31:44
  so why do I bring that up? So kind of placing
• 1:31:46
  them all together. So they're all worshiping
• 1:31:49
  these storm gods, these polytheistic gods. And
• 1:31:52
  when you think about it this way, it's like they're
• 1:31:54
  kind of sandwiched in the middle. The people,
• 1:31:57
  the early... Churches not Church Fathers are,
• 1:32:00
  you know, Fathers of the Faith here. They're
• 1:32:02
  kind of sandwiched right in the middle of all
• 1:32:04
  this. Where below them you have the Canaanites.
• 1:32:06
  And above them you got the Hittites. And they're
• 1:32:09
  all polytheistic worshiping these storm gods.
• 1:32:12
  And they're like, um, by the way, there's a storm
• 1:32:14
  coming. Oops. Oopsies. Missed that one. Yeah.
• 1:32:21
  Yeah, so that is kind of interesting. But here's
• 1:32:23
  what's also fascinating. And this one... How
• 1:32:28
  like the answer to this there's two ideas about
• 1:32:30
  it? Okay, and it depends on how you date the
• 1:32:33
  Exodus story. Okay, so There was a peace treaty
• 1:32:38
  I don't think I would take the exit story on
• 1:32:40
  a date Sorry, that was so delayed I wanted to
• 1:32:47
  delay it enough because it was cheesy enough.
• 1:32:48
  I did sometimes a surprise That's enough to forget
• 1:32:52
  about it, and then it's like, what? Yeah, what
• 1:32:55
  did you just say? Oh, okay. Oh, okay. Got it.
• 1:32:58
  Thanks. Sorry. I love that. So interesting dating
• 1:33:03
  of the exile. Yeah, because I believe it was
• 1:33:06
  like 1259 BC. Okay. There was a treaty. That's
• 1:33:10
  so specific. I know. I'm pretty sure. There was
• 1:33:17
  a peace treaty between... the Hittites and the
• 1:33:20
  Egyptians. I think it was Ramses II, I think,
• 1:33:23
  is the one who's attributed to it. Naturally.
• 1:33:25
  Of course. And so one dating of the Exodus, and
• 1:33:34
  this is based on, this one is based on archaeological
• 1:33:39
  evidence, it would place the Exodus at like 1260.
• 1:33:43
  So one year later? Before. So we're talking BC.
• 1:33:47
  Right, right. Yeah, yeah. It's so confusing.
• 1:33:50
  Are they really that specific on it? Yeah. That
• 1:33:52
  they're like 1259. Nah, actually it's 1260. Right.
• 1:33:56
  So 1260 for the Exodus, but 1259 for the peace
• 1:33:59
  treaty. Which honestly is kind of a fascinating
• 1:34:02
  thought. It's crazy that we have that. So it's
• 1:34:03
  like they just lost all of their slaves, and
• 1:34:06
  they're like, OK, peace treaty time. Oh, yeah.
• 1:34:09
  But if you take the biblical dating, it places
• 1:34:14
  the Exodus I might actually have this backwards.
• 1:34:17
  Now that I'm thinking about it. Depending on
• 1:34:19
  how you actually date the Bible. Because the
• 1:34:22
  other one, it would put the Exodus at like 14
• 1:34:25
  something. So essentially what this does is this
• 1:34:27
  peace treaty either happens during the time of
• 1:34:29
  the judges in the Bible, or it happens during
• 1:34:31
  the Exodus. And it depends on where you place
• 1:34:34
  it. Does the Exodus happen 200 years before or
• 1:34:37
  after? So it is interesting. What's fascinating
• 1:34:44
  to me, in either case, honestly, is that here
• 1:34:49
  are these two superpowers that are now, and one
• 1:34:53
  of them's up here in Turkey, the other one's
• 1:34:55
  down here in Egypt, and now they have a peace
• 1:34:57
  treaty. It's like, oh, these are two massive
• 1:35:02
  powers. What you're saying that they were potentially,
• 1:35:05
  so you're talking about the, is this the Hittites?
• 1:35:08
  The Hittites and the Egyptians. So up above Israel,
• 1:35:12
  Yes. Down below Israel. Yeah. They have a treaty.
• 1:35:16
  A treaty with each other. Yes. While potentially
• 1:35:20
  the Israelites are in exile. Either they're in
• 1:35:24
  exile because of the Exodus or it's during the
• 1:35:27
  time of the judges. Which would mean they're
• 1:35:29
  in Israel. Yes. Either one is fascinating for
• 1:35:34
  our story. It is. Well the first, if it were
• 1:35:38
  during the exile, it would be interesting because
• 1:35:41
  Israel hasn't moved into Israel. It's still the
• 1:35:45
  land of Canaan. Right. So, but if it happens
• 1:35:48
  during the time of the judges, then that would
• 1:35:52
  give a lot of credence to stories in the judges.
• 1:35:55
  Right. Wouldn't it? And that's kind of where
• 1:35:57
  I put it personally. Like the times of peace
• 1:36:00
  that are happening during the era of the judges.
• 1:36:02
  Yes. Because of the peace happening between Turkey
• 1:36:06
  and... Egypt. And I'm remembering a little more
• 1:36:10
  clearly now, and everyone in the comments can
• 1:36:12
  correct me if I got this backwards again, but
• 1:36:14
  I think the biblical dating of it puts the Exodus
• 1:36:17
  at like 1400, and it puts the Judges period in
• 1:36:21
  like 1200, which would be right around this peace
• 1:36:24
  treaty time. Yeah, that's cool. And for me, when
• 1:36:27
  I think about it even just strategically, it's
• 1:36:29
  like, okay, if I'm the Hittites and I'm trying
• 1:36:34
  to do this I got this deal going with the Egyptians.
• 1:36:36
  Yeah, and they just lost thousands of slaves
• 1:36:40
  That looks like a weakness. Yeah, and I'd probably
• 1:36:43
  attack. Yeah, so that's like the only thing that
• 1:36:45
  I would have It's like I feel like that didn't
• 1:36:47
  happen then Yeah, yeah, I can see that. I have
• 1:36:50
  to obviously we don't know everything. No It's
• 1:36:53
  an interesting idea But kind of placing those
• 1:36:57
  Where Israel at is? Yeah, it's like here's this
• 1:37:01
  massive territory that honestly is a lot of history
• 1:37:04
  that we see in biblical history. And there are
• 1:37:11
  massive superpowers, the Hittites. That's a big
• 1:37:15
  power to go against. And the Egyptians that you
• 1:37:17
  just escaped from. And now here you are in this
• 1:37:21
  little tiny little piece of property. Yeah, and
• 1:37:23
  all of that stuff kind of exists in and around
• 1:37:25
  and before Israel itself. So even if you look
• 1:37:29
  at Abram, and Abram being in the land of... He
• 1:37:34
  was Ur of the Chaldeans, which is more Iran,
• 1:37:40
  I believe. So it's more like southern Mesopotamia,
• 1:37:44
  so a little bit further out from Turkey. But
• 1:37:49
  in the land that would have been linked up, like
• 1:37:52
  the northern region of Mesopotamia linked up
• 1:37:54
  into Turkey. So you get all of this stuff, like
• 1:37:57
  all of these empires happening kind of in this...
• 1:38:00
  space that kind of spills south from Turkey.
• 1:38:04
  And as it spills south from Turkey, it eventually
• 1:38:08
  lands up into Egypt and then through Israel itself.
• 1:38:14
  So that's why it's like the wars and the battles
• 1:38:18
  that have been going on in the Middle East from
• 1:38:22
  Turkey all the way down through Iraq, Iran, old
• 1:38:26
  Mesopotamia, all the way down around Israel,
• 1:38:29
  down in... into Egypt that whole thing has been
• 1:38:34
  at war and chaos yes since Genesis yes since
• 1:38:40
  Genesis 2 3 yeah sorry Genesis 3 pretty early
• 1:38:44
  on yeah so yeah you kind of get this idea that
• 1:38:47
  like Oh wait, Turkey is actually kind of a big
• 1:38:50
  part of this. Yeah. Because there's a lot that
• 1:38:53
  spills out of Turkey. Yeah. And then also once
• 1:38:57
  it spills out of Turkey, it comes all the way
• 1:38:59
  down into Egypt, comes back up, and then pushes
• 1:39:02
  back up through Turkey to get to the rest of
• 1:39:05
  the world. Yeah. So it's this interesting thing
• 1:39:08
  where it pushes down, comes back around, comes
• 1:39:10
  into Israel, and then the New Testament pushes
• 1:39:14
  the gospel back up through Turkey again. Which
• 1:39:17
  is a really cool... Pretty cool. It is. It's
• 1:39:19
  a cool image. And honestly, it's very on brand
• 1:39:25
  for the story of the Bible. Of like, we're trying
• 1:39:28
  to retake the nations here. Right. And that's
• 1:39:31
  exactly what happens. They spread right back
• 1:39:33
  into it. Yeah. And then obviously Turkey is massive
• 1:39:38
  to the New Testament and the Axe Church. Yes.
• 1:39:42
  Because it's mentioned so much. Yeah. Yeah, like
• 1:39:48
  if you just look up like how many times are regions
• 1:39:50
  of Turkey mentioned? in the Book of Acts. It's
• 1:39:54
  like really, really frequently. Because everybody's
• 1:39:57
  going up and through Turkey. And so they're having
• 1:39:59
  to stop at the church in Galatia. They're having
• 1:40:02
  to stop at the church in Pergamum. They're having
• 1:40:04
  to stop at all these places. And they're big
• 1:40:06
  areas. They are. Yeah. Yeah. So it's this massive
• 1:40:09
  region that has been there for a long time. Yeah.
• 1:40:14
  So it's a pretty interesting place. So Turkey
• 1:40:17
  worth visiting? Probably. I think so. You know
• 1:40:20
  what? There's also something else interesting.
• 1:40:22
  What? I don't know if you want to go here. I
• 1:40:24
  don't know. Do I? Interesting sites in Turkey.
• 1:40:27
  Okay. Yeah, we can talk about it for a second.
• 1:40:30
  Okay. We don't spend too much time on it. It
• 1:40:31
  might be a good place to land. But I do think
• 1:40:32
  it's fascinating. And so, in southern Turkey.
• 1:40:37
  Southern Turkey. There is... Which would be northern
• 1:40:40
  Mesopotamia. Yes. Right. Which is very important
• 1:40:42
  to say that to. It is, yeah. There are a few
• 1:40:45
  very significant... and specific structures there.
• 1:40:49
  There are, yes. Namely, Gobekli Tepe. I was hoping
• 1:40:53
  you were gonna nail it. I know, I totally butchered
• 1:40:56
  it. I was like, I was like... I wanted to do
• 1:41:01
  it so well too. Gobekli Tepe. Gobekli Tepe. So
• 1:41:07
  why is that interesting? Why is that worth bringing
• 1:41:09
  up? So Gobekli Tepe is kind of a recent... archaeological
• 1:41:17
  discovery up on a hillside, a cliffside. I think
• 1:41:21
  it's like early 1900s, 1960s? Oh, when it was
• 1:41:26
  found? Recently. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it
• 1:41:29
  was older than that, but we recently discovered
• 1:41:32
  it. Yeah. No, I think it's dated to somewhere
• 1:41:36
  between 8 and 10 ,000 BC. At the earliest. Right.
• 1:41:41
  Yeah. Yeah, so it's... Some people put it even
• 1:41:44
  way further. Yeah, it is considered the first
• 1:41:49
  or second, depending on the list that you look
• 1:41:52
  at, oldest archeological sites on the earth.
• 1:41:55
  Yes, yeah. So Gobekli Tepe, I think they put
• 1:41:58
  it as second, oldest archeological sites on the
• 1:42:02
  earth. So we're talking about northern Mesopotamia,
• 1:42:06
  which would be part of southern Turkey eventually.
• 1:42:11
  But Gobekli Tepe, there's a bunch of ritual things
• 1:42:18
  found at Gobeka le Tepe. There's a lot of potential,
• 1:42:24
  this would definitely be another episode, but
• 1:42:26
  like apocryphal writings that kind of speak to
• 1:42:28
  places that echo what we found at Gobeka le Tepe,
• 1:42:33
  which is interesting. Well I think it's also
• 1:42:36
  important to point out that it was intentionally
• 1:42:41
  buried. Sure. which is like, oh, that's interesting.
• 1:42:45
  And there are signs based on their dating what
• 1:42:48
  they found that it's probably been buried a couple
• 1:42:52
  times, intentionally. Like, yeah, every time,
• 1:42:55
  they're like, yeah, this isn't the first time
• 1:42:56
  people have tried to hide this. Yeah, and this
• 1:42:58
  is, we're talking about like a temple and a structure
• 1:43:03
  that is on a mountainside. It's not like down
• 1:43:08
  in a valley and it can easily be like, Covered
• 1:43:12
  with erosion and water. Yeah to work to yeah,
• 1:43:16
  somebody intentionally filled it in Flattened
• 1:43:19
  it out built a mound on top of it and made it
• 1:43:22
  look like it was just part of the mountain. Yeah,
• 1:43:24
  and then eventually like Farmers kind of digging
• 1:43:29
  around like knew the area and stuff like that
• 1:43:31
  and archaeologists Archaeological like wow this
• 1:43:34
  stone keeps kind of going yeah, and people like
• 1:43:37
  new like like most Archaeological discoveries
• 1:43:40
  like the local people know about it already Yeah,
• 1:43:42
  yeah, and they because you're just like as kids.
• 1:43:45
  You're just playing around stuff like oh look
• 1:43:46
  yeah, like oh, that's a weird like head of a
• 1:43:50
  pillar Yeah, that's just like kind of sticking
• 1:43:52
  up like that's our pillar. We play on yeah I
• 1:43:55
  don't know where the rest of his body is, but
• 1:43:57
  it's just head sticking out But yeah, so there
• 1:44:03
  are ancient sites in southern Turkey that are
• 1:44:07
  some of the oldest archaeological sites that
• 1:44:10
  we've found. And I think the reason why potentially
• 1:44:15
  you're bringing it up and the thing to mention
• 1:44:16
  is really just the discovery of Gobekli Tepe
• 1:44:21
  points to the idea that there was higher intelligence
• 1:44:26
  of culture at a later date than we imagined.
• 1:44:31
  That's one of them. Yeah. Yeah, there's another
• 1:44:34
  piece that I found really interesting Especially
• 1:44:39
  kind of from what we were talking about. Okay,
• 1:44:41
  which this might seem like a stretch, but it
• 1:44:43
  also might not We can end on speculation. I like
• 1:44:46
  it Well, so it's interesting because one of the
• 1:44:50
  things they found on these pillars is Like signs
• 1:44:56
  and explanations for stars, not explanations,
• 1:45:00
  but basically outlining star patterns. Or as
• 1:45:03
  a lot of people call it now, the zodiac. So it's
• 1:45:06
  like they found that inscribed and written out
• 1:45:09
  on these pillars within this temple. And so it's
• 1:45:12
  like, okay, well why is that interesting? Well,
• 1:45:15
  I think it's interesting because of, I don't
• 1:45:19
  think we ever talked about it, but even Enoch
• 1:45:21
  talks about it in his writings. So it's like,
• 1:45:24
  seeing signs and stars and studying those has
• 1:45:28
  been something that's been around for a long
• 1:45:30
  time. Even if we date Gobekli Tepe like 8 ,000
• 1:45:34
  BC. Sure. It's like, so people knew about it
• 1:45:37
  then. People were looking at the signs, at the
• 1:45:40
  stars. It actually, it makes me think of, I think
• 1:45:43
  it's, I don't know if you wanna pull it up, I
• 1:45:44
  think it's Genesis 1, 14, where God says he puts
• 1:45:50
  the lights in the sky, they're in the heavens.
• 1:45:53
  I don't want to misquote it, so I'll let you
• 1:45:54
  pull it up. I was like, I almost have it, but
• 1:45:58
  not fully. Yeah, you're close. Because then there's
• 1:46:01
  also a cross -reference to that that I want to
• 1:46:02
  go to. They'll have you pull up after this. Yeah,
• 1:46:06
  14, and God said, let there be lights in the
• 1:46:09
  expanse of the heavens to separate the day from
• 1:46:11
  the night and let them be for signs and for seasons
• 1:46:15
  and for days and years and let them be lights
• 1:46:19
  in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon
• 1:46:21
  the earth. And it was so. And then can you go
• 1:46:25
  to Jeremiah 10, too? I can. Thank you, sir. Yeah,
• 1:46:31
  so I think it's fascinating because when we see
• 1:46:33
  it's like, OK, so here in creation, God's saying
• 1:46:37
  that, hey, I created these things and use them
• 1:46:41
  for signs and to to mark the seasons. And that's
• 1:46:47
  something we see in Gobekli Tepe. So it's like
• 1:46:49
  we see that. that was a significant thing for
• 1:46:52
  people. But then, it's funny because as people
• 1:46:56
  do, we take things way too far. And we start
• 1:47:02
  to add that into our temple worship. And we start
• 1:47:04
  to add that into other things. So then, I love
• 1:47:08
  the cross reference here in Jeremiah 10 -2. Yeah,
• 1:47:13
  starting in verse one. Hear the word of the Lord
• 1:47:15
  speaks to you. Oh, house of Israel, thus says
• 1:47:17
  the Lord. Learn not the way of the nations, nor
• 1:47:20
  be dismayed at the signs of the heavens, because
• 1:47:24
  the nations are dismayed at them. For the customs
• 1:47:27
  of the peoples are vanity. A tree from the forest
• 1:47:32
  is cut down and worked with an axe by the hands
• 1:47:34
  of craftsmen. And then it goes on. Do you want
• 1:47:38
  me to? No, that's good right there. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:47:40
  No, I like that. So learn not the ways of the
• 1:47:43
  nations nor be dismayed at the signs of the heavens
• 1:47:45
  because the nations are dismayed at them. So
• 1:47:48
  they're looking at the signs of the heavens and
• 1:47:51
  they have become dismayed at the signs that they
• 1:47:53
  read. Isn't that crazy? Yeah. And so I think
• 1:47:55
  it's funny. It's like God says in Genesis, hey,
• 1:47:58
  I made this for you so you can see signs. And
• 1:48:00
  everyone's basing their life on it. And then
• 1:48:02
  they get sad when it doesn't say what they want
• 1:48:03
  it to. Yes. And he's like, yeah, don't do that.
• 1:48:07
  Well, because of what we've talked about many
• 1:48:10
  times, they're worshiping the ones that they
• 1:48:14
  think are making the signs, meaning the stars
• 1:48:17
  in the sky. The sons of God in the sky giving
• 1:48:22
  them signs represented as lights versus the one
• 1:48:26
  who created the lights itself. Absolutely. So
• 1:48:29
  yeah, they're worshiping the sign, not the creator
• 1:48:31
  of the sign. Yeah, and honestly, I would love
• 1:48:34
  to do an episode on the stars particularly. And
• 1:48:38
  even if we did one on the Zodiac, I think that
• 1:48:41
  would actually be a lot of fun. There's a lot
• 1:48:43
  to talk about there. But the reason why I even
• 1:48:46
  bothered to bring that up is because this is
• 1:48:48
  all in Turkey. It is. This is all Turkey, guys.
• 1:48:51
  It's Turkey. We're in Turkey. Yeah, so if you're
• 1:48:54
  like... It's all in Turkey. It's Turkey everywhere.
• 1:49:01
  Jerry Seinfeld, get out of here. What's the deal?
• 1:49:05
  With Turkey! What's the deal? No one mentions
• 1:49:08
  Turkey. But I do think it is beautiful, that
• 1:49:14
  image of, for the sake of argument, that it's
• 1:49:18
  like things started around or in modern day Turkey.
• 1:49:21
  For sure. And then we spread out from there.
• 1:49:25
  or pushed out from there we could even say exile
• 1:49:27
  yeah and then we see in the new testament the
• 1:49:31
  apostles that was their that was their launching
• 1:49:34
  point yeah into the rest of the nations yeah
• 1:49:37
  it was their bridge yeah and it's kind of a it's
• 1:49:40
  a really beautiful picture even when i think
• 1:49:42
  you even brought this up but it's it's worth
• 1:49:44
  seeing again when we see like the garden of eden
• 1:49:46
  that's where life began that's the the origin
• 1:49:50
  yeah and we see the rivers pour out into everything
• 1:49:53
  yeah Well, it was because of the bridge in Turkey
• 1:49:57
  that it created for everybody that the truth
• 1:50:00
  or life was able to spread to all corners of
• 1:50:02
  the earth. Yeah. And let me be clear as we close.
• 1:50:06
  We're not saying that Eden was in Turkey. No.
• 1:50:09
  But we're not not saying Eden wasn't centrally
• 1:50:13
  in the hub of Turkey that potentially the landmass
• 1:50:16
  looked different. Maybe, maybe not. It could
• 1:50:20
  have. There's a lot of signs that point to Turkey.
• 1:50:23
  There's a lot of old things in Turkey. Let's
• 1:50:25
  just say that. Turkey's significant. Yeah. So
• 1:50:28
  don't forget about Turkey. Don't you. Make sure
• 1:50:31
  when you stack in a sandwich. Forget about Turkey.
• 1:50:38
  Three, two, one.