Latest / Becker’s Healthcare Podcast / Leadership, Resilience and Finding Balance with Joe Avelino

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Leadership, Resilience and Finding Balance with Joe Avelino · Becker’s Healthcare Podcast

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  - Welcome to this episode of Leadership Unscripted, a
• 1:00
  - Becker's healthcare podcast. I'm Chris Sosa, your host.
• 1:03
  - And I'm doing I'll be joined today by
• 1:04
  - Joe Avellino,
• 1:05
  - who, of course, is CEO of College Medical
• 1:07
  - Center in Long Beach, California.
• 1:09
  - Joe, thank you for joining us today.
• 1:11
  - Excited to be here, Chris. Thanks for the
• 1:13
  - opportunity.
• 1:15
  - Awesome, Joe. Love the enthusiasm and love that
• 1:16
  - you're on board for this conversation. You know,
• 1:19
  - as you may know, Leadership Unscripted's a little
• 1:21
  - bit different. We like to dive into the
• 1:23
  - health care journeys of leaders in the industry.
• 1:26
  - But before we get too far into that,
• 1:27
  - just please, just introduce yourself a little bit
• 1:30
  - more and let us know a little bit
• 1:31
  - about your background.
• 1:33
  - Fantastic.
• 1:34
  - My name is Joe Abelino. Again, CEO of
• 1:36
  - College Medical Center. I will be in my
• 1:38
  - twelfth year here as CEO.
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  - My background is a nurse and also,
• 1:44
  - twenty seven years in the US Army,
• 1:48
  - special forces,
• 1:49
  - airborne,
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  - and
• 1:53
  - really enjoy being in the military,
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  - which has helped and provide some of the
• 1:57
  - guidance I have as an executive.
• 2:00
  - And, also,
• 2:01
  - my facility is a 221
• 2:04
  - acute care bed hospital
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  - with a specialty in behavioral health services
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  - and also addiction medicine.
• 2:11
  - And, we have an affiliation with USC Keck
• 2:14
  - School of Medicine on internal medicine,
• 2:17
  - and we are also
• 2:19
  - ACGME
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  - accredited
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  - with our,
• 2:22
  - psychiatry residency program.
• 2:25
  - We see about 500
• 2:27
  - plus admissions on behavioral health a month,
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  - approximately about 250
• 2:32
  - acute care admissions,
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  - of which 50 is about
• 2:36
  - detox admissions,
• 2:38
  - and approximately about a thousand to 1,100
• 2:41
  - ER visits a month.
• 2:43
  - Excellent. Thanks for providing that background on yourself
• 2:45
  - and your
• 2:46
  - organization, Joe. I love learning all about College
• 2:49
  - Medical Center. And in addition to that, your
• 2:53
  - military career, I'm sure, is gonna play a
• 2:55
  - a pretty big role here in this conversation.
• 2:57
  - So then without further ado, let's start here.
• 3:00
  - So my first question is, what is something
• 3:01
  - you've learned outside of health care that you've
• 3:04
  - applied to your career?
• 3:06
  - I think going back to my previous comment,
• 3:08
  - Chris, being in the military
• 3:10
  - has
• 3:11
  - certainly taught me the importance of discipline
• 3:14
  - and also
• 3:16
  - being a nurse,
• 3:17
  - being able to
• 3:19
  - clinically have a conversation with physician staff,
• 3:23
  - have a empathy with patient care
• 3:26
  - with physicians,
• 3:28
  - and,
• 3:29
  - the interactions from a business development
• 3:32
  - standpoint
• 3:33
  - and strategic planning.
• 3:35
  - All that has helped me quite a bit,
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  - in in health care,
• 3:40
  - particularly the the military
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  - in terms of,
• 3:44
  - organization
• 3:45
  - and also just, strategies such as in strategic
• 3:48
  - planning.
• 3:50
  - Joe, when you're interacting with your staff or
• 3:52
  - even patients, as you said, you've been a
• 3:54
  - nurse for some time as well,
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  - does that military
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  - training and
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  - attitude and
• 4:01
  - strategic organization,
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  - does does that often come through? Is is
• 4:05
  - that obvious when you're interacting with others?
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  - Not really. You you have to keep,
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  - military
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  - so so structured
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  - that
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  - in the in the civilian world, you have
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  - to have more flexibility
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  - and and certainly
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  - more,
• 4:23
  - professionalism.
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  - Not that they don't have that in the
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  - military, but
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  - you don't have that structured discipline.
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  - And you have to be a little bit
• 4:32
  - more customer service oriented,
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  - more,
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  - direct upfront,
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  - and have the
• 4:40
  - flexibility,
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  - especially dealing with doctors with, behavioral matters and
• 4:46
  - egos in line. You just have to be,
• 4:50
  - congenial
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  - and provide
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  - fellowship
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  - and collaboration
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  - in that approach.
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  - That makes total sense. Thanks, Joe. I'm I'm
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  - sure that any number of your colleagues would
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  - agree that flexibility in particular
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  - is a great trait to have when you're
• 5:04
  - just trying to lead a health care system
• 5:06
  - or hospital.
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  - Changing gears slightly here, Joe. So my next
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  - question for you is
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  - so as you're going through your day to
• 5:14
  - day as a leader, right,
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  - what do you need to do to keep
• 5:17
  - yourself healthy? And that's physically,
• 5:19
  - emotionally,
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  - mentally. I mean, you gotta be at your
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  - top of the game if you're gonna be
• 5:23
  - CEO. So what would you do
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  - to keep yourself in tip top shape, so
• 5:28
  - to speak?
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  - Oh, well
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  - well, I believe in a work life balance.
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  - Totally,
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  - really very, very important.
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  - Just as I make appointments with business development,
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  - with physicians,
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  - with marketing,
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  - with colleagues. I make appointment with myself, whether
• 5:47
  - it's a morning or in the afternoon, to
• 5:49
  - work out.
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  - I have what they call,
• 5:52
  - fitness
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  - exercise.
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  - And,
• 5:55
  - just
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  - love to share with you my my routine
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  - and what they call
• 6:00
  - HIIT training,
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  - which is a high intensity
• 6:04
  - interval training,
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  - which,
• 6:06
  - I do that,
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  - quite often
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  - about two to three times a week.
• 6:11
  - I also play competitive tennis.
• 6:14
  - So with the competitive tennis,
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  - just
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  - really enjoy the competitive
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  - tennis complement
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  - that with the HIIT training, which is the
• 6:23
  - high intensity interval training, which I do two
• 6:25
  - to three times a week. So it's I
• 6:27
  - start out with,
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  - seven series of exercise,
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  - thirty seconds each
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  - and then fifteen seconds rest,
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  - and I do three sets.
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  - And the first one I do is squat
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  - taps,
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  - then second set of exercises, push ups,
• 6:45
  - then third is mountain climbers,
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  - Then, a stand up, what they call elbow
• 6:49
  - to knee, then kneecap stand up sit ups.
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  - Then,
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  - the fifth exercise is
• 6:56
  - high knees with arm movements.
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  - And the sixth is jumping jacks.
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  - Then,
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  - seven is alternating lunges.
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  - And then after that, I'll follow-up with,
• 7:08
  - ten minutes on the rowing machine.
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  - But the,
• 7:11
  - the the biggest thing has really been doing
• 7:14
  - sauna.
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  - Sauna at least three or four times a
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  - week. I do it for twenty minutes, 190
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  - degrees,
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  - and I do about twelve minutes of yoga
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  - of that twenty minutes in the sauna. And
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  - I tell you, complementing that with, three to
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  - four days of tennis,
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  - in a week has just been phenomenal
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  - in terms of my exercise.
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  - So that that's the, physical part. The emotional
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  - part is keeping balance with family, making sure
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  - you're there for dinner.
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  - I have
• 7:46
  - this is my second round. Even though I've
• 7:49
  - been married, near twenty six years now,
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  - second time around with,
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  - I have a a nine year old, eight,
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  - a three, and a two. They're my grandkids,
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  - but I have custody of the four of
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  - them.
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  - So making time, you know, taking them to
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  - their swimming lessons, taking them to the park,
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  - ice cream, being home for dinner,
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  - taking the opportunity to drop them off to
• 8:12
  - school,
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  - that part is just as important as doing
• 8:16
  - your work
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  - and keeping your stability
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  - at home and at work and having that
• 8:21
  - work life the work life balance. And,
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  - the other important part that that you know,
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  - don't wanna throw religion
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  - here, but my faith has keep me,
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  - pretty strong,
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  - and and just and at least,
• 8:39
  - at least three to four times a week,
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  - saying a prayer, passing by church. And,
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  - you know, a lot of CEOs ask for,
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  - yeah,
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  - do well and make money and but for
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  - me, I I ask for wisdom. I pray
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  - for wisdom.
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  - So those are those are the things that
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  - I would say keep me healthy physically, mentally,
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  - and emotionally, Chris.
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  - Thanks so much, Joe. I love the detail
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  - there. I think a lot of, whoever listens
• 9:05
  - to this podcast can just, you know what?
• 9:07
  - Joe said, do this. I'm gonna copy and
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  - paste those exercises
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  - and see what I can do with that,
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  - and the sauna and the yoga.
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  - Very detailed blueprint there. I love that. I
• 9:16
  - do wanna dive into the tennis, though. I
• 9:18
  - mean, Wimbledon just happened. You know, we're in
• 9:19
  - the middle of, you know, the majors of
• 9:22
  - tennis. That's what I'm looking for. So is
• 9:24
  - there a player that you admire or players
• 9:26
  - where you say, you know what? I I
• 9:27
  - wanna copy this, that, and the other because
• 9:30
  - I think that can help me.
• 9:32
  - Oh, yeah. There's
• 9:34
  - several of them.
• 9:35
  - Definitely, on the men's side, Djokovic is,
• 9:40
  - his resilience,
• 9:42
  - his fitness, which, emulate.
• 9:44
  - And,
• 9:45
  - women's side,
• 9:47
  - love the forehand of,
• 9:49
  - Naomi Osaka.
• 9:51
  - Right.
• 9:52
  - The the serve in Volley by Caroline Mejova.
• 9:56
  - And, my I can't forget my my Philippine
• 9:59
  - tradition will with Alexander Yala, an upcoming Filipino,
• 10:03
  - sensation.
• 10:05
  - But, yeah, I just love the game. I
• 10:07
  - love to compete.
• 10:08
  - Won the championship three years ago,
• 10:11
  - in my league, hoping
• 10:12
  - with my new strategy, better forehand, better serve,
• 10:15
  - to win another one. And we'll we'll win
• 10:18
  - another one before the end of the season.
• 10:20
  - So very excited about
• 10:22
  - the the the tennis,
• 10:24
  - balance in my life as well.
• 10:26
  - Well, good luck with that, Joe. And congratulations
• 10:28
  - on your success in that league so far.
• 10:30
  - I mean, certainly from what I know of
• 10:32
  - Djokovic and Osaka,
• 10:34
  - and they're they're not young up and comers
• 10:37
  - anymore, far from it. So they've obviously displayed
• 10:39
  - a tremendous amount of resilience to just be
• 10:42
  - back to the level of tennis or in
• 10:44
  - Djokovic's case, it's just maintaining that for nigh
• 10:46
  - on two decades, really. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
• 10:49
  - Present.
• 10:51
  - Alright.
• 10:52
  - So you're gonna have tough days as a
• 10:54
  - CEO, Joe. That that's just
• 10:56
  - part of the deal or in any job,
• 10:57
  - really. But what I wanna ask you now
• 10:59
  - is just simply on those tough days, the
• 11:02
  - toughest days,
• 11:03
  - who are you gonna turn to to help
• 11:05
  - you move forward? What do you do to
• 11:06
  - help you get over the hump, so to
• 11:08
  - speak?
• 11:09
  - Well, it goes back to my previous comment
• 11:11
  - on my faith
• 11:13
  - that having that
• 11:14
  - praying for wisdom,
• 11:16
  - going to church, and and just,
• 11:18
  - you know, may just even be, like, five,
• 11:21
  - ten minutes just saying a prayer.
• 11:24
  - This pastor,
• 11:25
  - in Saddleback, his name is pastor Rick Warren,
• 11:29
  - wrote the number one bestseller,
• 11:31
  - The Purpose Driven Life.
• 11:33
  - And, I love his quote. And he says
• 11:36
  - that
• 11:37
  - your most profound and intimate experiences of worship
• 11:41
  - will likely be in your darkest days,
• 11:44
  - when your heart is broken,
• 11:46
  - when you feel abandoned,
• 11:48
  - when you're out of options,
• 11:50
  - when the pain is great,
• 11:52
  - and you turn to God alone.
• 11:54
  - So
• 11:55
  - prayer
• 11:56
  - and faith in my darkest days and my
• 11:59
  - toughest days,
• 12:00
  - That is my ammunition.
• 12:03
  - Well, it's clearly been coming in handy, Joe,
• 12:05
  - just considering where you've been and and, you
• 12:07
  - know, how you've gotten to where you've you've
• 12:09
  - been or where where you are now, I
• 12:11
  - should say.
• 12:12
  - You know, it's interesting going back to the
• 12:14
  - faith. And I tell this because I I
• 12:17
  - love to do leadership lecture.
• 12:19
  - And one of those that I like to
• 12:21
  - share about is the story of mother Teresa.
• 12:23
  - You know, when when you think of mother
• 12:25
  - Teresa, you think of someone who's authentic, who's
• 12:28
  - genuine,
• 12:29
  - and one who has tremendous amount of faith.
• 12:32
  - But yet after her death, in her private
• 12:35
  - papers revealed that she had suffered
• 12:38
  - from incredible doubt. And for long periods of
• 12:41
  - her life,
• 12:42
  - she even felt that God was absent.
• 12:45
  - So using words
• 12:48
  - in her,
• 12:49
  - autobiography,
• 12:50
  - darkness, torture, loneliness,
• 12:53
  - She wrote about the spiritual agony she often
• 12:56
  - experienced and revealed that at one time her
• 12:58
  - doubts were so great that she even questioned
• 13:02
  - the existence of god.
• 13:04
  - So even mother Teresa, who had a tremendous
• 13:07
  - amount of faith,
• 13:08
  - but yet struggled and wrestled with doubt from
• 13:11
  - time to time. So my message is it's
• 13:14
  - important not to lose sight of the fact
• 13:16
  - that even in your toughest days,
• 13:19
  - it's okay to be
• 13:21
  - natural, normal, and healthy
• 13:24
  - just as mother Teresa was.
• 13:27
  - I think relatable
• 13:29
  - quotes and
• 13:31
  - thought process from mother Teresa there. And just
• 13:34
  - in that, hey. You know,
• 13:36
  - as we've just said,
• 13:38
  - not every day is gonna be easy. Not
• 13:39
  - every day is gonna make sense to you.
• 13:41
  - Okay. I need to do this, this, and
• 13:42
  - this. I'm gonna be successful. There's gonna be
• 13:44
  - doubt. So, yeah, I think it's very relatable
• 13:47
  - that even someone like her said to herself,
• 13:48
  - you know what? I'm not sure this is
• 13:50
  - this is going the right way, but she
• 13:52
  - found a way through it as well.
• 13:54
  - Absolutely.
• 13:55
  - Absolutely.
• 13:57
  - Joe, so
• 13:59
  - I love that you mentioned,
• 14:00
  - you know, the pastor that you turned to
• 14:02
  - and listened to
• 14:03
  - and mother Teresa and what you've gained from
• 14:05
  - her and what you've gained from your family.
• 14:08
  - Considering your health care journey as a whole,
• 14:10
  - what's something you've learned about yourself
• 14:12
  - since you've been working in health care?
• 14:15
  - I think you you have to not take
• 14:17
  - things personally.
• 14:19
  - You're gonna have those difficult conversations,
• 14:23
  - such as what Brene Brown says.
• 14:27
  - And with those difficult,
• 14:30
  - conversations
• 14:30
  - and the power of vulnerability,
• 14:33
  - You can't take it personally,
• 14:35
  - whether you're talking to
• 14:37
  - staff, to patients, to physicians.
• 14:41
  - And, you have to be at peace
• 14:43
  - because you're gonna have some tough days.
• 14:46
  - You you got tough days where you're not
• 14:48
  - gonna make the the avatar,
• 14:51
  - not to stay as high.
• 14:52
  - You're not able to make budget,
• 14:56
  - and you have some financial challenges.
• 14:58
  - And and what do you do? What do
• 15:00
  - you do? But despite being at peace at
• 15:04
  - that moment,
• 15:06
  - always be grateful.
• 15:08
  - Always be grateful.
• 15:09
  - And and those moments, you have to be
• 15:12
  - and I tell my staff this because it
• 15:14
  - is difficult in in these adversities is you
• 15:18
  - try to be kind to everyone. You know?
• 15:21
  - Give everyone the benefit of the doubt instead
• 15:23
  - of taking something they say or do personally.
• 15:27
  - Remind yourself that you don't really know what's
• 15:30
  - going on on their life
• 15:32
  - or in someone's life. So don't take it
• 15:34
  - personally
• 15:35
  - and trust that they're going
• 15:37
  - they're doing the best they can in the
• 15:39
  - best possible way.
• 15:42
  - Certainly great advice that I can definitely find
• 15:44
  - in my life. There's always gonna be times
• 15:46
  - where even, you know, I run into someone
• 15:48
  - who I think I know what they're about.
• 15:51
  - Chances are I probably do not. So giving
• 15:53
  - them a bit of a grace is is
• 15:55
  - gonna be the way to go for sure,
• 15:56
  - Joe. And another note, Chris, on that, you
• 15:58
  - know, I I always say practice the pause.
• 16:01
  - Someone shared with me this. Practice the pause
• 16:04
  - when in doubt.
• 16:06
  - Pause when you're angry.
• 16:08
  - Pause when you're tired.
• 16:10
  - Pause when stressed.
• 16:11
  - Pause when you pray.
• 16:14
  - Love that, Joe.
• 16:15
  - Well, one last question for you, if you
• 16:17
  - will. So
• 16:18
  - you've done a lot in your career as
• 16:20
  - we've discussed.
• 16:21
  - What would you say is one risk that
• 16:23
  - you've taken that has paid off?
• 16:26
  - One risk that I've taken has been so
• 16:28
  - growing up, my mom put this,
• 16:32
  - dream in my heart that I will always
• 16:34
  - be a CEO.
• 16:36
  - The only part of my career back in
• 16:38
  - I'm an old guy. Back in 2007,
• 16:41
  - it was my first position as a CEO.
• 16:45
  - However, in July 2010, my position was eliminated.
• 16:49
  - I was
• 16:51
  - given the position as vice president of business
• 16:53
  - development,
• 16:55
  - having the fact that I built a cardiovascular
• 16:57
  - institute,
• 16:59
  - neurosurgery
• 16:59
  - center, had great relationship with physicians.
• 17:02
  - But that wasn't my dream.
• 17:05
  - I wanted to be a CEO.
• 17:07
  - I give gave them a six months notice
• 17:10
  - at this,
• 17:11
  - at that time.
• 17:12
  - However,
• 17:13
  - my position was eliminated,
• 17:15
  - and,
• 17:18
  - I was unemployed for ten months.
• 17:20
  - And someone once told me,
• 17:23
  - sometimes life is about risking everything
• 17:26
  - for a dream
• 17:27
  - that no one no one can see but
• 17:30
  - you.
• 17:31
  - And like I said, I
• 17:33
  - I I I, I lost everything.
• 17:36
  - If you wanna understand about so short sale,
• 17:39
  - foreclosure,
• 17:40
  - bankruptcy,
• 17:41
  - I know it all.
• 17:43
  - Because during that difficult time, you know, interview
• 17:46
  - after interview, no job offer, you know, I
• 17:49
  - hit rock bottom. You know?
• 17:51
  - And I understand that I learned to give
• 17:53
  - not because I have much,
• 17:56
  - but because I know exactly how it feels
• 17:58
  - to have nothing.
• 18:00
  - And,
• 18:03
  - so instead, I accepted a interim vice president
• 18:06
  - clinical
• 18:07
  - operations position
• 18:09
  - from California all the way from Hopkinsville, Kentucky.
• 18:13
  - So I was away from my family, no
• 18:15
  - support system,
• 18:17
  - and I was the only Asian
• 18:19
  - at this hospital
• 18:21
  - in, Hopkinsville,
• 18:23
  - Kentucky.
• 18:24
  - And then, I just remember that two things
• 18:27
  - define you. Your patience when you have nothing
• 18:30
  - and your attitude
• 18:32
  - when you have everything.
• 18:34
  - So once again, you know,
• 18:37
  - rejection after rejection,
• 18:39
  - I felt very much alone, fleeting aimlessly,
• 18:44
  - looking for direction.
• 18:45
  - But here comes the power of social media.
• 18:47
  - My colleague,
• 18:49
  - becomes a regional CEO back in Los Angeles,
• 18:53
  - and I caught up with him in LinkedIn.
• 18:55
  - I said, hey. If you have an opportunity,
• 18:58
  - think of me.
• 18:59
  - So, you know, I was provided
• 19:01
  - that opportunity.
• 19:03
  - It was right before Christmas
• 19:05
  - in, 2011
• 19:07
  - and,
• 19:08
  - became
• 19:09
  - and bounced back in that CEO position.
• 19:12
  - But it was nearly a year and a
• 19:13
  - half when I took that risk.
• 19:16
  - So John c Maxwell says that the cost
• 19:19
  - question.
• 19:20
  - Are you willing to pay the price
• 19:22
  - to pursue your dream?
• 19:25
  - So, you know, life goes on.
• 19:28
  - And this is what I say is that
• 19:30
  - the opposite of faith is not doubt.
• 19:33
  - It's certainty.
• 19:35
  - And I was certain that despite those challenges,
• 19:38
  - despite the adversity,
• 19:40
  - rejection
• 19:41
  - after rejection,
• 19:42
  - that I would bounce back to be a
• 19:44
  - CEO.
• 19:46
  - So,
• 19:47
  - pastor Joel Olsteen once says that every setback
• 19:51
  - is set for a comeback.
• 19:53
  - Joe, thank you so much for sharing. I
• 19:55
  - mean, I I feel you almost buried the
• 19:57
  - lead there just given the the struggles you've
• 20:00
  - had. But but, obviously, the story is more
• 20:03
  - about where you are now and how you
• 20:05
  - got there as opposed to, you know, the
• 20:07
  - the bottom
• 20:09
  - parts of the roller coaster, let's say, to
• 20:11
  - use a very tired cliche. Mhmm. But but
• 20:13
  - you're here now. You're you're here at College
• 20:16
  - Medical Center and and thriving and hopefully that,
• 20:19
  - you know, your patients and and everyone is
• 20:21
  - and your staff is too. So, Joe, thank
• 20:23
  - you so much for being a part of
• 20:24
  - this podcast. We can't wait to share it.
• 20:27
  - And no doubt there's more that you can
• 20:28
  - and will share next time we're past cross
• 20:31
  - or in some other format or circumstance.
• 20:33
  - Love it, Chris. Let me just close with
• 20:35
  - this final quote from Robin Sharma.
• 20:38
  - He says, when you were born, you cried
• 20:41
  - while the world rejoiced.
• 20:42
  - Live your life in such a way that
• 20:44
  - when you die,
• 20:46
  - the world cries
• 20:47
  - while you rejoice.
• 20:48
  - Thank you for the opportunity, Chris.