Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Wife Tammy Harris, 70 lbs., No Hair, Fingernails, Dead of Vitamin Supplement

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Wife Tammy Harris, 70 lbs., No Hair, Fingernails, Dead of Vitamin Supplement · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A gorgeous young wife seemingly
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: collapses out of nowhere. Days later she's dead. What happened
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: to Tammy Harris Crime Stories with Nancy Grace? First of all,
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: take a listen to our friend Tyler a crime online.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: When Tammy and Jeffrey Harris married in two thousand and seven,
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: it was really no surprise, after all that had all uncommon.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Tammy graduated from Washington State University with a Bachelor of
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: Science degree in nursing and a master's degree as a
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: psychiatric nurse practitioner. Jeffrey had earned the right to use
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: doctor before his name. One of Amy's three children from
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: a previous marriage says they had a very loving relationship
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: during their eleven years together, and when Tammy Harris was
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: diagnosed with lupus, the couple looked at treatment options together.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: Straight out to an All Star Panelt helped make sense
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: of what happened to Tammy with me. High profile lawyer,
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: former prosecutor out of Atlanta, Darryl Cohen, doctor Sherry Swartz,
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: forensic psychologist and author of Criminal Behavior, Justin Boardman, former
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Special Victims Unit detective West Valley See the End. Author
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: of I was wrong and investigators battlecry for change. Renowned
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: medical examiner joining US, doctor William Moroney joining us from Michigan,
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: author of a best selling book, America Narcan on Amazon
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: and Crime online dot Com. Investigative reporter Nicole Parton. So, Nicole,
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: we've got these two that are seemingly handing glove, perfect
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: for each other. Tammy and Jeffrey Harris married, says two
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: and seven. So she collapsed? Was that due to lupus? Right, Nancy?
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: So they left their home in Idaho, traveled to New
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: York City because she had been diagnosed with what doctors
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: thought was lupus. So they headed up to New York
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: City to treat some or seek some holistic treatment for
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: her lupus. But she collapsed at the hotel they were
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: staying at. Six days later, she's said, whoa okay? Talked
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: to William Moroney, Chief Medical Elexander Bay County, Michigan. First
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: of all, what is lupas and how often is it fatal?
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: Lupas involves a number of different systems, but they're all
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: tied together because you treat lupas, which is a flare
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: of inflammation, so you treat it with anti inflammatories and
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: immunal suppresses. It affects the lungs, it affects the skis,
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: and it can affect the heart. Well, I still don't
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: understand what it is. Is it some type of an
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: inflammation problem. It's an autoimmune problem. There's no virus, there's
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: no bacteria, there's no damage. There's just some part of
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: the body that you have an autoimmune attack. And you
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: can see it on certain rashes and people. It can
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: bring weakness, but lupas is very rarely the cause of
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: a death. Well, what does it do to you? Because
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: do you remember us discussing the Chris Watts and Chanan
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: Watts case. Chris Watts to kill her husband. That killed Nan,
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: his wife who was pregnant with baby Nico, and they
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: had the two daughters, Bell and Celeste, and then he
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: hid their bodies at an oil oil wheel area. You
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: remember that. I think she had lupas. Didn't she have lupas? Yes?
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: And they when they met, he was so supportive of
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: her trying to battle her lupas. So I still don't understand.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: You get rashes, you have a hard time breathing sometimes.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: What are the other symptoms of lupas? It can affect
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: the GI tract, it can affect the lungs, and it
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: can sometimes have an inflammatory effect on internal organs, so
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: they become inflamed. What does that mean? Listen, doctor Moroney,
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: Not all of us have MD degrees. So when you
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: throw around phrases like your organs have inflammatory whatever you
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: just said, what do you mean your organs swell up?
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: Your organs can't get a rash? So what are you saying? Oh?
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: How I would love to have you on cross exam.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: I would have so much fun because you really can't
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  Speaker 1: argue back with the lawyer. But sadly now you can't.
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: I would have to hide. But what does that mean?
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: Flamatory process? If you're diabetic, you're not getting enough insulin
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  Speaker 1: because of the pancreas slows up. You have a difficult
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: time breathing in lupus because the airways can swell up. Okay,
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: now I'm getting it. That's what you mean by in flaming. Okay,
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  Speaker 1: there's no virus and there's no bacteria. It's an autoimmune disease.
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  Speaker 1: How do you treat it? What we have grown to
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  Speaker 1: treat it with is immunal suppressant. And why didn't you
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  Speaker 1: say it like that, what we have grown to treat
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  Speaker 1: it with? Does that mean it's hit or miss? And
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: right now we're trying immuno What do you mean by
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: we've because for instance, if somebody has if somebody cuts
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: their hand and it starts turning red, you put neosporin
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: on it, it's an antibiotic and you get well. So
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  Speaker 1: what do you and I know that to be a fact,
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: So what do you mean we have grown to treat
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  Speaker 1: it with? And acute lupus flare is treated with massive
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: amounts of steroids because that shuts down inflammation. But you
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  Speaker 1: can't live off of steroids dan the day out. Why
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: does it destroy your kidney but destroys your adrenal glance
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: that are on top of the kidney, and it'll change
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: your pituitary and it'll change your hormones and it'll demineralize
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  Speaker 1: your bones. And steroids are a wonderful drug for acute
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: pathological problems, but not for long term. And that's lupus
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  Speaker 1: is a long term disease. Got it? So now we
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: have immuno suppressants and an acute player you can use steroids.
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: What's an immuno suppressant? Sorry, for the rest of you
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: on the panel. What some people can't speak English and
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: explain it to me in a way I can understand.
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  Speaker 1: What is an immunosuppressant? Well, there are branded name immuno suppressants,
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: but some of the people I know that have lupus arthritis,
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: they're rheumatologists. Prescribes them one or two things, hydroxy chloroquin
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  Speaker 1: or an antibody infusion, and those antibodies infusions are proprietary,
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: so they're expensive. But hydroxy everything he just said, okay,
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  Speaker 1: doctor Moroni, Yes, just name me something we can all identify.
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  Speaker 1: What isn't it? You know, suppressant medication? Just name one. Well,
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: don't say hydroxy chlorinate or not that one because that's
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: too associated with unsuccessful attempts to treat COVID. What's another
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: one that I could get? Immuno suppressant? Well, hi, steroids? Okay,
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: got you? Tero Yes, okay, I got it, I got it? Now?
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: All right, present, Yes there you go. Oh thank you amen? Brother,
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: All right, present that I know about. So let me understand.
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: Nicole Parton. Tammy marries the doctor husband, doctor Jeffrey Harris.
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: They there in New York trying to find a holistic
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: healing for lupus. Do you know it took me seven
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: minutes to get that out of Maroney? Seven minute Maroney.
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: As I've told you before, doctor Maroney, I'm a JD,
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: not a DDS. I'm not that good at pulling teeth, Okay,
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: So you know, help a girl out here and just
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: give me a simple, dummy down answer so we can
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  Speaker 1: all just move on with this case. So I can
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: understand what happened to Tammy Harris. Holistic is that right,
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: Nicole part? And they began searching the earth for holistic
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: cures for lupus or treatments right right. So her husband,
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: doctor Jeffrey Harris, was very adamant that he was going
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: to seek out holistic treatment and try to find a
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: way to battle what the doctors were calling lupas. But
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: what he believed to be another element. So he wasn't
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: buying into the fact that she had lupus. What did
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: he think she had? He was believing that she had
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: mercury poisoning because she had been a nurse at a
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: dental surgical center for already stop again, sorry, justin boardman,
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: Doctor Sherry Schwartz, Daryl Cohen, please just jump in because
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: I'm about to go back to doctor Moroney, and you
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: know what's going to happen, doctor Moroney, mercury poisoning. Wouldn't
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  Speaker 1: you have to break about two hundred thermometers in order
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: to get mercury poisoning? How else would you get mercury poisoning?
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: Bolsure two mercury compounds in dental fillings. But that is
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: now very rare, That is very rare, and that just
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: doesn't happen. We don't see it in people because didn't
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: they change what Dennis used for feelings, so that would
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: no longer be a possibility. Right, they're ceramic, they're epoxy,
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: which were the type of feelings that had mercury in them.
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  Speaker 1: Pure mercury. It was. It was a mixture of liquid
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  Speaker 1: elemental mercury and something to harden it up. Silver, Yes,
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  Speaker 1: silver feelings. Did you hear that? And don't give me
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: the chemical element, don't don't do it, don't. Well, they
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: looked silver, They looked silver. Yes, you're right, So maybe
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  Speaker 1: it's not actual silver. Maybe it looks oh, it is
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: actual silver. Okay, looks like silver. Got it, got it?
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: Got it? Prime Stories with Nancy Grace. Okay, holistic cures,
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen. I'm not knocking holistic cures, but all I
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  Speaker 1: can it's just pingponging off the inside of my skull
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: is Steve Jobs. Remember he wanted he had a curable cancer,
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: but he wanted a natural cure and he died a
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: natural death. I mean holistic cures. I believe in them.
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  Speaker 1: My mother, my grandma, mother, we all had holistic cures
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  Speaker 1: growing up for various maladies. But at a certain point,
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  Speaker 1: I think you've got to fall back on western medicine
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  Speaker 1: or am I just brainwashed? What about it, doctor Moroney?
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  Speaker 1: There's certain things you just can't find in holistic herbs.
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  Speaker 1: You know, we don't treat people really with silver, and
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  Speaker 1: we don't treat people with mercury. And the old days
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: he used mercury to kill baggaria. That's bad for the
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  Speaker 1: body now, just like we have in this case. True
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: take a listen to our cut too. This is Tyler
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: at crime Online. Despite treatment for lupus, Tammy Harris's health
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: did not improve. She was wheelchair bound, her way to
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  Speaker 1: drop to just seventy pounds, and her hair and fingernails
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  Speaker 1: had fallen out. The couple traveled from Moscow, Idaho, to
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: New York in search of a holistic doctor. When Tammy
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  Speaker 1: suddenly collapsed in the lobby of the law New York
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  Speaker 1: Palace hotel. She died six days later. Okay, right there,
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  Speaker 1: down to seventy pounds, her hair and nails had fallen out.
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  Speaker 1: Instead of putting her in the hospital, he was carting
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  Speaker 1: her around from hotel to hotel trying to find a
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  Speaker 1: holistic cure. Okay, so what killed her? Take a listen
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: to our cut three again, tyer hunt Crime Online. An
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: autopsy determined that Tammy Harris died from an overdose of
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: the dietary supplement selenium. Selenium, a trace mineral, is considered
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: safe in small doses, but the City Medical Examiner found
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: eight times the average amount of selenium in Harris's system.
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  Speaker 1: In large amounts, selenium can cause a variety of health issues,
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  Speaker 1: from hair loss to kidney failure, and in rare case's death,
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  Speaker 1: An investigation revealed Tammy Harris was taking the supplement on
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: the advice of her doctor husband, who did not believe
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  Speaker 1: his wife had lupus. He insisted that she suffered from
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: mercury poisoning. Working at a dental office. Several years prior,
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  Speaker 1: Doctor Harris kept up the pretense that his wife was
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: taking what she had been prescribed by her doctors, but
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: instead she was taking medicines prescribed by her husband, which
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: continued her spiraling health problem. Doctor Sherry Schwartz, why would
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: you not seek a specialist and rely on your own
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  Speaker 1: m D. Your medical doctor, which I think he was
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: a GP general practitioner. Could you find that exact? He's
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: an internist. Okay, that adds to his credibility in this area,
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  Speaker 1: But why would you not see the wisdom seeking another
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  Speaker 1: health professional as opposed to just giving your wife high
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: doses of selenium. Well, one of the things that they say, Nancy,
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: is that doctors are in fact the worst patients because
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: they think that they know better than the practitioner, or
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: at least as much as the practitioner. And in doctor
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: Harrins's case, he may have had some success before in
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: his own practice with alternative remedies, so he may be
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: believed that he knew his wife best, he knew the
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: illness best, and he could treat it best. Doctor Moroney,
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: isn't there something unethical about that? Or no? Art totally
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: an ethical? That is so off the wall, you don't
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: treat your children, you don't treat your parents, you don't
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: treat your wife. You send your children to a pediatrician
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: because of conflict of interest. That's one of the reasons
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: is probably things like this, and then narcotics. You would
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: never do this. Everything he's doing is going against what
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: we learn. This is reminding me of another case we
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: recently covered. Let's take a listen to my longtime friend
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: from CNN, Janekasarus our cut thirteen prosecutors say Martin McNeil
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: forced his wife Michelle to have a facelift, then plied
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: her with a laundry list of painkillers and depressants. My
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: dad was telling the plastic surgeon what medication he wanted.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: I vividly remember this, and he told me that he
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: gave her the arnica at a valium, the lord tab
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: the Fennergan, and then gave her two percosets at one
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  Speaker 1: thirty am and then one ambient at thirty am. As
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: a matter of fact, doctor McNeill insisted that the treating
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: physician add on additional painkillers and additional medications that were
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: not normally prescribed following a facelift. A very long and
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: arduous surgery that Michelle endured about seven hours under the knife,
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: but the husband, her husband, doctor Martin McNeill, stepped in
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: and interfered with what the doctor prescribed and added additional prescriptions. Well,
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: take a listen to our cut fifteen. This is Marcus
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: Ortiz ABC four Utah. At first it was ruled accidental.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: A week earlier, she had cosmetic surgery and Martin McNeill
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: was personally medicating her at the time. Alexis Summers was
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: a medical student and was already suspicious. My mother began
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: to suspect that my father was having an affair, and
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: she confided in me. It turned out her mother was light.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: Gypsy Willis was Martin McNeill's mistress. Did the relationship become sexual?
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: It did? One was that I think that was in
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: January of two thousand and six. Summers set out to
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: prove her father gave their mother the wrong drugs, causing
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: her death. We uncovered who he truly was and he
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: was actually a monster. McNeill introduced Willis as the younger
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: children's nanny and moved in. Unhappy with the police investigation,
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: Rachel McNeill began investigating her father online. Gypsy's roommate who
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: contacted me and said that Gypsy she overheard Gypsy saying
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: that she wanted to cut the break lines from my mother.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: Willis allegedly wanted Michelle McNeill out of the way. That
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: was doctor Martin McNeill. Michelle McNeill suffered an over medication death.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: She was odad on Peel's given to her by her husband,
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: the doctor. Now, in no way are we suggesting that
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: this doctor, doctor Jeffrey Harris, was having an affair or
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: anything of the sort. We are stating that he was
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: giving her large amounts of selenium. Now, doctor William Moroney
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: does what do large amounts of selenium due to a person?
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: And doctor McNeil is just one of the many examples
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: as to why doctors are not supposed to treat their spouse.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: Selenium as a micro nutrient is important for enzymatic function,
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: the growth of skin, the growth of bones, the growth
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: of hair, and the growth of your nails, and a
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: very important enzyme called glutathione peroxidase that helps take peroxides
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: out of the system, and peroxides are very toxic, but
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: that's only when it's in micro nutrient concentrations. Otherwise, it's
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: just as toxic as any other metal, heavy metal, or
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: anything else in the biological system. He knew what he
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: was doing. It was murder, and he was lying about it,
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: telling everybody else that the regular treatment for lupus and
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: mercury that was still there, and he was substituting all
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: this super selenium concentration. Very suspicious. You believe doctor Moroney
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: that he need fullwell what he was doing. On the
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: other hand, take a listen to our cut five from
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: Crime Online. Joshua Hubbard, Tammy Harris's son, tells the New
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: York Daily News that he has no doubt Jeffrey Harris
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: loved his mother. He says, quote he loved her deeply,
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: almost to a fault. I do not believe he intended
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: to hurt her in any way end quote. Hubbard also
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: told the Daily News that he has a lot of
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: compassion for jeff Harris, saying Harris was a physician who
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: thought he could cure his wife, but what he was
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: doing was wrong. Hubbard said it was a very confusing
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: time and quote incredibly weird time stories with Nancy Grace.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: So let me clarify. Talkt to Moroney. You're saying that
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: he intended to give her the selenium or are you
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: saying he intended to give her that much selenium knowing
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: that death could result. I'm saying he intended to give
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: those high doses and was hiding it, So that's suspicious.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: He was leading her to a path that was incapacitating
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: her that ended up leading to homicide. You know, that's
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: a really good point that you just made. Darrell Cohen,
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: former felony prosecutor in inner city Atlanta, now high profile
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: defense attorney in Atlanta. The fact that he was in
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: fact hiding it. He was stating that and correct me
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: if I'm wrong, Nicole apartment, because this is crucial. It's
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: critical in this case Nicole. Wasn't he telling everyone that
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: she was taking medications of treatment prescribed to her by
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: other doctors than himself, right, And he was telling her
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: to tell those doctors that she was taking those medications
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: when in fact, she was not taking the medications prescribed
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: by the other doctors. Got it? Who was only taking
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: the medications her husband was prescribing to her and giving her. Okay,
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen, former prosecutor now private attorney, Daryl that does,
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: just like Maroney said, make it more nefarious the fact
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: that he was covering his tracks in the sense that
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: he was lying that she was about what medications she
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: was getting. She was only getting medications he prescribed, not
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: what the regular doctors told her to take. This is
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: nothing more and nothing less than a conspiracy of one.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: He conspired to kill her. She went along with it,
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: maybe because she thought he was doing the right thing
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: and the other physicians did not. But this is so nefarious, Nancy.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: It's straight down the line of why a physician does
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: not and should not treat his family member for anything
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: serious other than a cold, other than tripping and needing
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: a band aid of some sort. Yeah, and he takes her,
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: reportedly all the way from their home in Moscow, Idaho,
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: to New York to get treatment, to find holistic doctors.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: But yet he's covering up the fact that he is
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: the one prescribing her with this heavy dose of selenium.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: Now you can find selenium naturally in brazil nuts, tuna,
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: oysterous pork, beef, chicken, tofu, pasta, shrimp, mushrooms, all sorts
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: of things, but not to this extent. Justin Bordman joining me,
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: former Special Victims Unit detective in West Valley, author of
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  Speaker 1: I Was Wrong, An Investigator's battle cry for change and
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  Speaker 1: the Special Victims Unit justin I want you to listen
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  Speaker 1: to another case now. In this case, the parents think
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  Speaker 1: they're absolutely doing the right thing. Take a listen to
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  Speaker 1: our cut ten. This is Katie Johnson, CBS Miami. Two
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  Speaker 1: parents in Cape Coral are charged with the death of
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  Speaker 1: their eighteen month old son. The baby waged just seventeen
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  Speaker 1: pounds at the time of his death. Experts say seventeen
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  Speaker 1: pounds is what a seven month old should weigh, not
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  Speaker 1: a baby who's a year and a half old. A
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  Speaker 1: Lee County grand jury indicted Ryan Patrick O'Leary and Sheila
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  Speaker 1: O'Leary Wednesday on charges a first degree murder, aggravated child abuse,
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  Speaker 1: aggravated manslaughter, child abuse, and two counts of child neglect.
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  Speaker 1: According to a police report, the mother called nine one
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  Speaker 1: one in September when she noticed her son was not
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  Speaker 1: breathing and felt cold. According to Newspress, the baby was
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  Speaker 1: dead when paramedics arrived. The state attorney for the case
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  Speaker 1: says the indictmentsa also include three other children who suffered
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  Speaker 1: child abuse and extreme neglect. They are three years old,
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  Speaker 1: five years old and eleven years old. But that's not all.
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  Speaker 1: Listen to cut ten A Megan braw NBC two. We're
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  Speaker 1: also learning the three other children in the home we're
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  Speaker 1: only allowed to eat raw fruits and vegetables, and two
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  Speaker 1: of them were severely underweight. Sheila and Ryan did admit
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  Speaker 1: to police they thought something was wrong with her baby
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  Speaker 1: weeks before, but didn't call for help. In this nine
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  Speaker 1: page report just obtained by NBC two, Sheila tells police
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  Speaker 1: the baby became sick six months ago and was throwing
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  Speaker 1: up and lost weight about a week before the baby died.
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  Speaker 1: Sheila says they're eighteen month old, stopped eating and would
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  Speaker 1: only breastfeed occasionally. The medical examiner says the baby was
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  Speaker 1: extremely malnourished, dehydrated, and feet were swollen. Sheila says the
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  Speaker 1: baby has never been to the doctor and was born
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  Speaker 1: inside their home. Cape Coral police also say two other
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  Speaker 1: children were also extremely underweight and one of their children's
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  Speaker 1: teeth were rotting. Sheila told police the family would sleep
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  Speaker 1: in the living room with one child on a hammock
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  Speaker 1: and another on a dogbed. Justin, boardman, have you ever
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  Speaker 1: heard anything like it? Justin I don't know if you
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  Speaker 1: have children or not. But you don't give a kneeborn
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  Speaker 1: baby raw fruit and veggie's to eat. They can only
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  Speaker 1: take liquids. The child died and they had them on
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  Speaker 1: some wacky, holistic raw fruit and veggie diet. It's terrific,
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  Speaker 1: just right out of the gates. It sounds terrific. It
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  Speaker 1: had to have been a horrible scene. And you don't.
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  Speaker 1: Where I start having some issues is where the mental
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  Speaker 1: health of the offenders come into play, and to try
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  Speaker 1: to find the intent. Was the intent to actually kill
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  Speaker 1: them or to keep them pure? If you will, justin boardman,
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  Speaker 1: no offense. But did you get your law degree that
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  Speaker 1: I didn't know about it? No? Did you say no? Okay,
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  Speaker 1: let me school you very quickly that the law presumes
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  Speaker 1: that you intend the natural consequence of your act. For instance,
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  Speaker 1: if I take a gun, put in a bullet, pointing
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  Speaker 1: at Jackie over here, I kill her at least once
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  Speaker 1: a day, and in my mind, okay, point at her
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  Speaker 1: and pull the trigger and kill her. And then I
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  Speaker 1: went oops, I only meant to scare her, b s
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  Speaker 1: Because the law presumes I intend to kill her when
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  Speaker 1: I point a gun at her and pull the trigger.
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  Speaker 1: You don't feed your child food. You try to give
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  Speaker 1: a little bitty baby a piece of apple or no,
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  Speaker 1: a child cannot eat at that young age. So the
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  Speaker 1: natural consequence of your act is a starvation death. Now
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  Speaker 1: keep that in mind when you go to law school. Okay,
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  Speaker 1: Darrell co and go ahead. I know law school is
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  Speaker 1: a one hederful thing. I reluctantly agree with you, Nancy. Oh,
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  Speaker 1: it hurts me to agree with you, but I am
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  Speaker 1: agreeing with you. This is the first. Now listen speaking
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  Speaker 1: of their state of mind, and I'm glad you brought
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  Speaker 1: that up, justin Bourman, because neither of them were insane
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  Speaker 1: under the legal sense of the word. I want you
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  Speaker 1: to listen to our cut Tien b our friend Rachel
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  Speaker 1: Lloyd at Fox Fourth. Sheila O'Leary's attorney told me all
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  Speaker 1: the kids living in this home were healthy. And now
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  Speaker 1: I did ask him about the claims of malnourishment, and
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  Speaker 1: he says O'Leary actually breastfed her son just a few
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  Speaker 1: hours before he died, so he doesn't think malnutrition was
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  Speaker 1: the cause of death. Now, Sheila O'Leary and her husband
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  Speaker 1: Ryan face a manslaughter charge after their baby died. Here
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  Speaker 1: back in September. They turned themselves in last night after
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  Speaker 1: the medical examiner revealed malnutrition caused the baby's death. O'Leary's attorney,
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  Speaker 1: John Muska told me on Skye today that his client
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  Speaker 1: was so religious that she did not allow any of
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  Speaker 1: her four kids to watch television. He also says she's
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  Speaker 1: vegan but fed her children balanced mills. But he did
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  Speaker 1: say there were health concerns regarding the toddler before he died. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: he was starving. The child had been sick six months
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  Speaker 1: prior and had not fully recuperated. The child had started
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  Speaker 1: eating better, and then the child began teething, and the
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  Speaker 1: mother was concerned, very concerned that that was causing him
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  Speaker 1: to not eat as well. He was suffering, all right,
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  Speaker 1: because he was starving. That was the problem. Prime stories
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  Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace to you, doctor William Moroney. Just as
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  Speaker 1: doctor Jeffrey Harris was oding his wife with selenium, thinking
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  Speaker 1: he was giving her a holistic cure. I mean, and
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  Speaker 1: that's putting it in the best light favorable to the defendant.
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  Speaker 1: Just like these parents, they killed a child, now she's dead.
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  Speaker 1: The biggest difference is he was covering up what he
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  Speaker 1: was doing. And using the situation that what he was
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  Speaker 1: really doing was another doctor was treating her, so he
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  Speaker 1: was hiding the fact that he was giving these high doses.
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  Speaker 1: Is that shreue Nicole Parton tell me how if he
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  Speaker 1: did that, he hid the truth. He was in fact
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  Speaker 1: keeping this hid. But the doctors eventually caught on to
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  Speaker 1: what was happening, and they even asked him, please be
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  Speaker 1: a supportive husband, not a doctor. Let us doctor, just
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  Speaker 1: to be a supportive husband. So there was a point
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  Speaker 1: in all of this where the doctors caught on to
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  Speaker 1: what was happening, realizing that she wasn't taking the medication
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  Speaker 1: they were prescribing. She was only taking what her husband
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  Speaker 1: was telling her to take. So the doctor, her regular
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  Speaker 1: trading physicians knew what was happening. Right, that's right. This
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  Speaker 1: is not the first and I'm afraid it won't be
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  Speaker 1: the last of a family member forcing a health regiment
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  Speaker 1: on their children. Take a listen to our cut two
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  Speaker 1: from crime Online. Carla Griguez says she kept her son
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  Speaker 1: Camary on a biblical vegan diet because she didn't want
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  Speaker 1: to carry a fat ass child, and he would often
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  Speaker 1: be fed fruits and vegetables crushed with boiled potatoes. According
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  Speaker 1: to the child's grandmother, Coriguez told The New York Post,
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  Speaker 1: she believes vegan means everything that's in the Bible. Okay,
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  Speaker 1: doctor Moroney helped me out all jibes aside. There you
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  Speaker 1: see a young mother describing her child as quote fat
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  Speaker 1: ass and would only give him fruits and veggies crushed
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  Speaker 1: with boiled potatoes, claiming he was on some sort of
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  Speaker 1: a biblical diet as you and I both as me,
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  Speaker 1: of course, not as accomplished as you, biblical scholar. They
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  Speaker 1: had a lot more than that in the Bible. But
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  Speaker 1: that said misguided and deadly. Well, they eat lamb, they
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  Speaker 1: eat chicken, they eat fish. They may have had beer.
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  Speaker 1: I know they had wine, and they had bread. So
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  Speaker 1: there's a lot of things where these people get their
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  Speaker 1: information that this is healthy and that this follows some
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  Speaker 1: religious guidelines. This is pathological, this is mental illness. Well
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: wait a minute. When you say mental illness, though, to
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  Speaker 1: doctor Sherry Schwartz, author of Criminal Behavior and for Law
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  Speaker 1: and Psychology, intersect doctor Sherry to say it is a
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  Speaker 1: mental illness, I don't know about that. I think the
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  Speaker 1: opportunity to totally lord over someone control even what they eat.
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  Speaker 1: I don't know that that's a mental illness. I know
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  Speaker 1: it's not insanity because these people knew how to lie
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  Speaker 1: to see why. A that's a technical legal term. I
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  Speaker 1: think you're familiar with it when they're caught well correct,
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  Speaker 1: and that type of controlling, manipulative behavior, obsessive behavior might
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  Speaker 1: be a component of a mental illness, but not necessarily
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  Speaker 1: a mental illness in and of itself. Right, And just
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  Speaker 1: because somebody's mentally ill, as you know, Nancy, when we
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  Speaker 1: talk about the concept the legal concepts of insanity, that
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  Speaker 1: does not mean they don't know the difference between right
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  Speaker 1: and wrong. So you may have these very hardcore beliefs,
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  Speaker 1: and even if you believe you're doing the right thing,
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  Speaker 1: you see this person suffering, so you must know that
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  Speaker 1: something is wrong. Will you see your wife down to
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  Speaker 1: seventy pounds and she has no fingernails or hair? Wouldn't
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  Speaker 1: that be the time that you would call in an
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  Speaker 1: expert and not rely on your selenium supplements to cure
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  Speaker 1: Doctor Moroney, I think every time he looked at her,
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  Speaker 1: he was It's like that body morphic disorder. He didn't
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  Speaker 1: see what she was or he continually blamed what he
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  Speaker 1: saw misguidedly on mercury. So he was covering his behind
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  Speaker 1: because everything he was doing was wrong, unethical, immoral. So
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  Speaker 1: even if Daryl co when he did not have the
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  Speaker 1: specific intent to kill her, if he had performed a felony,
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  Speaker 1: which I would have to say aggravated battery, not aggravated
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  Speaker 1: as salt, but battery to the extent that she was
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  Speaker 1: losing her hair and her fingernails, that in the course
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  Speaker 1: of this felony a death occurred, which equals felony murder.
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  Speaker 1: You follow that legal logic, could he be charged with
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  Speaker 1: felony murder as well as in the alternative malice murder
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  Speaker 1: with the intent to kill? So a jury would have
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  Speaker 1: two alternatives. I think he could be charged with both,
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  Speaker 1: but I'm sure it will be evicted of either one.
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  Speaker 1: I think aggravated battery would be a much better charge
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  Speaker 1: to be convicted because he will argue in this guy
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  Speaker 1: with his ego, he will jump on the witness stand
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  Speaker 1: and listen and make it heard from all the the
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  Speaker 1: right thing. And he was trying his best for this
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  Speaker 1: alternative medicine, and he was treated her because no other
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  Speaker 1: physician would do the right thing. Oh, how happy I
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  Speaker 1: would be if he did take the stand to explain
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  Speaker 1: all that, so I could have him across exam. And
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  Speaker 1: the first question I would ask doctor William Moroney, is
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  Speaker 1: isn't it true that you hid from the doctors, from
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  Speaker 1: her family, from the world, that you were no longer
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  Speaker 1: following the advice of doctors but had launched into your
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  Speaker 1: own alternative medical treatment. In other words, eight times the
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  Speaker 1: normal amount of selenium was found in her body, she
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  Speaker 1: had no hair, she had no fingernails, she ate seventy pounds,
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  Speaker 1: and he did not call a specialist, he did not
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  Speaker 1: put her in the hospital. There's no way he could
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  Speaker 1: withstand that a cross exam, doctor Moroney. The main thing
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  Speaker 1: that stands up is when you treat somebody like that,
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  Speaker 1: you have to measure and monitor the selenium, and you can't.
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  Speaker 1: It's too expensive and too difficult. So if you're not
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  Speaker 1: monitoring it and you're giving it in large amounts, that's
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: your number one problem, that the toxicity's there. The second
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: problem is alternative medicine. While it's an alternative, still has
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  Speaker 1: to have some kind of evidence that it's been published
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  Speaker 1: or proven to work. I do not know anybody in
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  Speaker 1: America that's eated mercury poisoning with selenium. He has nothing
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  Speaker 1: to stand on medically or scientifically. And did you know
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  Speaker 1: doctor Moronia, I think Nicole Parton with Crime Online mentioned
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  Speaker 1: this earlier. When the autopsy was performed, they also determined
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  Speaker 1: that she was starved. She was actually starved. Not only
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  Speaker 1: was she odeed on selenium, she was starved and he
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  Speaker 1: stood by and let that happen. The prosecutors also say
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  Speaker 1: doctor Moroney and I quote, he cheated doctors by pretending
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  Speaker 1: his wife was taken what she had been prescribed. Anytime
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: you have an adult that doesn't get enough nutrition, we
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  Speaker 1: call that failure to thrive. The only time you see
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: failure to thrive is end of life and hospice. And
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: that's putting somebody that is so far out, that is
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: so How bad is that male nutrition? The scientific name
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: is in admission and the long phrase is failure to thrive.
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  Speaker 1: We do not create failure to thriving people to treat
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  Speaker 1: any other condition. You know, I looked up the effects
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: of mercury o D. Exposure to mercury lost a peripheral vision,
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: she didn't have that, pans and feeling pans and needles,
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: feelings and hands, feet around mouth, didn't hear him about that.
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  Speaker 1: Lack of coordination, no impairment of speech, sharing walking, no
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: muscle weakness. None of those really fit with what he
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: says she had. Guys take a listen to our cut
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: four from Crime Online. Doctor Jeffrey Harris is charged with
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: second degree manslaughter. He pleaded not guilty and is being
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: held on a three thousand dollar bond. When the judge
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: asked why second degree manslaughter charges were brought rather than murder,
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: Assistant District Attorney Valerie Meyer referenced Terris's quote, sincere belief
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: that his wife suffered mercury poisoning and that spared him
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  Speaker 1: the more serious murder charge end quote. Doctor Harris's lawyer
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: says his clan wants to clear his name, telling the
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: court he has no incentive to flee and has cooperated
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: with New York detectives during their investigation. M I think
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: that was a huge mistake. They should have charged him
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: with intentional murder murder one murder two voluntary involuntary in
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: felony murder and then let a jury decide what the
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: truth is. They're going to have to live with their
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: charging decision when they take this to a jury. Right now,
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: it's not three thousand, it's three hundred thousand dollars bond.
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: I anticipate he will get out on bond. Whether he
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: will flee will be another matter. We wait as justice unfolds.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: Nancy Grace Crime Story, signing off goodbye friend,