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The Warren Effect · Boozy Banter with Friends

• 0:08
  Leyla Zmeskal: Hello and welcome to boozy banter with friends.
• 0:12
  Trisha Smith: Join us this week as we explore the supernatural,
• 0:16
  Leyla Zmeskal: with a little sass,
• 0:18
  Trisha Smith: the unexplained,
• 0:19
  Leyla Zmeskal: and a side of snark,
• 0:20
  Trisha Smith: and tales of other worldly shenanigans.
• 0:23
  Leyla Zmeskal: Grab your favorite spirit and join me, Leyla
• 0:26
  Trisha Smith: And me, Trisha and meet us on the other side Hello, hi,
• 0:39
  Leyla Zmeskal: welcome
• 0:44
  Trisha Smith: I wish I would've had a snappy comeback, but I
• 0:47
  Leyla Zmeskal: Welcome to the last installment of our deep dive into the Warrens. Oh, that's right. We're your hosts.
• 0:54
  Leyla Zmeskal: Leyla
• 0:55
  Trisha Smith: oh and Trisha
• 0:56
  Leyla Zmeskal: I don't know what kind of opening that was? Like you don't know who the fuck we are?
• 1:08
  Trisha Smith: Clearly I didn't either.
• 1:09
  Leyla Zmeskal: You're like, oh yeah, I'm Trisha.
• 1:15
  Trisha Smith: Oh my god,
• 1:16
  Leyla Zmeskal: you know, that gets me to thinking. Why You Should Never trust atoms.
• 1:21
  Trisha Smith: Adam, like Adam?
• 1:21
  Trisha Smith: like Adam and Eve?
• 1:24
  Leyla Zmeskal: Atoms. Like why you should never trust them.
• 1:27
  Trisha Smith: Why?
• 1:28
  Leyla Zmeskal: Because they make up everything.
• 1:39
  Trisha Smith: Okay, we weren't even talking about Adam.
• 1:42
  Leyla Zmeskal: I just thought I had to get my joke in already.
• 1:45
  Trisha Smith: Adam who?
• 1:47
  Leyla Zmeskal: You're like, like, like Adam and Eve?
• 1:50
  Trisha Smith: I thought you said Ed and Lorraine Warren were today, not Adam. Geez. I'm a little slow because our, our drinks are a little strong today.
• 2:01
  Leyla Zmeskal: Ah, you know what? It's good.
• 2:04
  Trisha Smith: Yeah, we got fancy.
• 2:06
  Leyla Zmeskal: We did.
• 2:07
  Trisha Smith: We're fancy. Have you seen that gin? Well, I'm not asking you because you've seen it, but.
• 2:16
  Leyla Zmeskal: I've seen it now.
• 2:16
  Leyla Zmeskal: And I was like, Ooh, that's super pretty.
• 2:19
  Trisha Smith: It is. So there's this gin called Empress something. 1908.
• 2:24
  Leyla Zmeskal: It's so fancy.
• 2:25
  Trisha Smith: It's so pretty.
• 2:25
  Trisha Smith: It's this beautiful purpley color. We were going to already we were planning to make the French 75 today, which is gin and lemon juice and all of the things Yeah, simple syrup. And then I saw this Empress gin with the purple. And I'm like, Oh, we have to we have to make that. So we made an empress 77. Chloe's like, can't it be like 76 Because our little signboard didn't have two seven's. She's like, can't it be like 76, 78 I'm like no, no,
• 3:03
  Leyla Zmeskal: That is this, no, that was this. Yeah, that is this.
• 3:06
  Trisha Smith: So Empress 77 is because it has the elderflower liquor in it, which is a delicious, so it's just the gin and the elderflower, and then we garnished it. Oh, I didn't like I don't like lemon very much. So I didn't put the lemon in it.
• 3:24
  Leyla Zmeskal: But the garnish we used was very appropriate.
• 3:26
  Trisha Smith: It was, it was the hibiscus flower petals or flower, flowery pieces. Yeah.
• 3:30
  Trisha Smith: From Cocktail Garnish Company, https://cocktailgarnish.co
• 3:37
  Leyla Zmeskal: which we use them a lot.
• 3:39
  Trisha Smith: We do.
• 3:39
  Leyla Zmeskal: Cause I love their garnishes.
• 3:41
  Trisha Smith: Right? They're so fancy
• 3:42
  Leyla Zmeskal: They are, it makes, it just elevates your drink to the next level.
• 3:45
  Trisha Smith: It does, so yeah, we sprinkled some of that on and it just it's just a fancy little drink.
• 3:50
  Trisha Smith: It's nice, I like it. It's very, Oh, and you top it with Prosecco. Yes. So yeah, we were feeling fancy today because we've got champagne glasses.
• 4:02
  Trisha Smith: It's a little bubbly and then it's this beautiful, like a violet color so. But it's strong.
• 4:10
  Leyla Zmeskal: It is and it has that gin floral notes to it.
• 4:14
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yes. not overpowering either.
• 4:17
  Trisha Smith: Right. It's definitely, when people talk about botanical gins? Yeah, definitely, that's this for sure. Yeah. So you're either going to love it or you're going to hate it.
• 4:28
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yeah. And you know as someone who for me I'm kind of indifferent about gin.
• 4:31
  Leyla Zmeskal: That's not my go-to at all.
• 4:37
  Trisha Smith: Mine either.
• 4:38
  Leyla Zmeskal: However every once in a while I'm okay with like, a gin based beverage and this one's not bad.
• 4:44
  Trisha Smith: It's not bad. It's not bad. I wouldn't call it a favorite. I don't know that I would drink it regularly, but I would certainly serve it for something fancy pants.
• 4:53
  Leyla Zmeskal: Right. Like this would be an option in addition to something else for people that don't like gin drinks. Yes, but it's very Pretty. Not terrible, not overpowering, so I liked it. I liked it.
• 5:05
  Trisha Smith: Yeah, something different.
• 5:06
  Leyla Zmeskal: Absolutely.
• 5:07
  Trisha Smith: We like different.
• 5:08
  Leyla Zmeskal: I do like a little bit of variety. They say it's the spice of life.
• 5:13
  Trisha Smith: Really now?
• 5:15
  Leyla Zmeskal: For a second, I'm like, is that what they say?
• 5:18
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yes, that's what they say.
• 5:22
  Trisha Smith: Just making sure.
• 5:23
  Leyla Zmeskal: You almost got me there. I'm like, did I say the right thing or the wrong thing?
• 5:25
  Leyla Zmeskal: I had too many of these French 77s, like, I'm questioning myself.
• 5:34
  Trisha Smith: You had to look.
• 5:35
  Leyla Zmeskal: I did look.
• 5:37
  Trisha Smith: So what number are we we on?
• 5:38
  Leyla Zmeskal: 77. So aggressive about 77 just a second ago, And now, I'm like, what, 77?
• 5:46
  Trisha Smith: Right. So all I know are the three. Like, 75 is just the gin, 76 is vodka, and 77 has the elderflower I don't know what like 78, 79.
• 5:59
  Leyla Zmeskal: Wow, you're very worldly.
• 6:01
  Trisha Smith: I try.
• 6:02
  Leyla Zmeskal: I'm impressed.
• 6:02
  Leyla Zmeskal: terribly impressed.
• 6:06
  Leyla Zmeskal: I Know my drink numbers?
• 6:11
  Leyla Zmeskal: Well, I think you did a very fantastic job.
• 6:13
  Trisha Smith: Thank you. It's very pretty. You can check it out on our Instagram page.
• 6:16
  Trisha Smith: https://www.instagram.com/boozybanterwithfriends/
• 6:18
  Leyla Zmeskal: Absolutely.
• 6:18
  Trisha Smith: My daughter did a wonderful job of
• 6:21
  Leyla Zmeskal: She does a very good job when it comes to our drinks.
• 6:22
  Trisha Smith: Yeah, I don't know what we would do if she didn't record our drinks because
• 6:26
  Leyla Zmeskal: it takes so much pressure off of us though.
• 6:30
  Trisha Smith: They just wouldn't make it on Instagram, if she didn't do it.
• 6:33
  Leyla Zmeskal: They would, but they would look like we did it.
• 6:37
  Trisha Smith: They'd be all janky and the music wouldn't line up.
• 6:40
  Leyla Zmeskal: Poor Chloe's eyes would twitch. Music? I don't even think we'd have music.
• 6:45
  Trisha Smith: Just us cackling in the background.
• 6:48
  Leyla Zmeskal: Shit talking.
• 6:52
  Trisha Smith: It said three ounces, damn it, Leyla, not six.
• 6:56
  Leyla Zmeskal: I mean, are we doing interpretations?
• 6:58
  Trisha Smith: Like Diane? Two ounces. Six looks good.
• 7:04
  Leyla Zmeskal: This looks like two ounces. Interpretations.
• 7:07
  Leyla Zmeskal: Right, she does a very good job for us. We're very, very fortunate that she's still willing, after all this time, to create
• 7:15
  Trisha Smith: Puts up with our crap.
• 7:16
  Leyla Zmeskal: Create these wonderful looking beverages for us. I mean, I have no problem drinking them either. By the way,
• 7:23
  Trisha Smith: I know. I know. So sometimes,
• 7:26
  Leyla Zmeskal: She doesn't even make one for herself while she does it.
• 7:28
  Trisha Smith: She doesn't. I'm surprised we haven't driven her to drink though.
• 7:34
  Leyla Zmeskal: You know what, this time I'm gonna have one of those. Right the most she'll do is like,I just want to sip.
• 7:39
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yeah. Good for her. I wish I had that fucking willpower. I'm too old for that,
• 7:47
  Trisha Smith: I know.. Anyway, today, the Warrens. After three different stories,
• 7:55
  Leyla Zmeskal: Right, which was only supposed to be a three parter, we given, we are given you
• 8:00
  Trisha Smith: We gave.
• 8:01
  Leyla Zmeskal: Whatever.
• 8:01
  Trisha Smith: We threw out a bonus,
• 8:03
  Leyla Zmeskal: Words.
• 8:03
  Trisha Smith: You know, they're hard.
• 8:05
  Leyla Zmeskal: Grammar.
• 8:05
  Trisha Smith: But we are finally going to talk about the Warrens themselves. Because I'm gonna tell you what, after doing three different stories that were supposedly involving the Warrens, I feel like, we've talked about them very little.
• 8:21
  Leyla Zmeskal: We have, we have, so, and even I would say in our discussion today, we're not slamming the Warrens.
• 8:27
  Trisha Smith: No, we're just talking about knowledge that's already out there.
• 8:31
  Leyla Zmeskal: Anybody with a computer or a smartphone can just type up the Warrens, and you'll find all of this information.
• 8:38
  Trisha Smith: What I do find interesting about them is the information that's out there tends to vary widely.
• 8:45
  Leyla Zmeskal: It does.
• 8:46
  Trisha Smith: Like you are either a super fan or a super doubter. Yeah, you know, there's no in between.
• 8:54
  Leyla Zmeskal: I feel like I'm in between.
• 8:55
  Trisha Smith: I, I kind of am. I wouldn't say one way or the other. For me.
• 9:03
  Leyla Zmeskal: I'm in between.
• 9:03
  Leyla Zmeskal: I'm going to tell you why. I'm in between because I like the movies, just for their movies.
• 9:11
  Trisha Smith: Yeah. their entertainment value.
• 9:12
  Leyla Zmeskal: Their entertainment value. Do I find some of their personal things and the way they did things a little strange and maybe inappropriate? Yes, I do. Do I think they may be capitalized on some things? Yes, I do. But you know what,
• 9:34
  Trisha Smith: who cares? I know that's, at the end of the day, I don't care
• 9:40
  Leyla Zmeskal: In my world, it's doesn't make a hill of beans.
• 9:42
  Trisha Smith: Right. They, whatever they've done throughout the years has led to the creation of some very good entertainment, and I'm okay with that.
• 9:56
  Leyla Zmeskal: I mean, I'm just not passionate enough to like,
• 9:59
  Trisha Smith: Right. I am middle,
• 10:00
  Leyla Zmeskal: I don't give two shits one way or another.
• 10:03
  Trisha Smith: I guess in the end, I am more middle of the road, but not just for that reason. I feel like after reading about them so much in these different cases, I feel like they were half of what they portrayed.
• 10:22
  Leyla Zmeskal: Absolutely.
• 10:23
  Trisha Smith: I think Ed was a really great showman.
• 10:27
  Leyla Zmeskal: Absolutely.
• 10:27
  Trisha Smith: and entrepreneur.
• 10:28
  Leyla Zmeskal: Absolutely.
• 10:30
  Trisha Smith: But I do feel like Lorraine had some type of ability.
• 10:35
  Leyla Zmeskal: You know what? I think with every story that we have done so far, one thing that we have both agreed upon, that there has been some small semblance of truth about,
• 10:47
  Trisha Smith: Right.
• 10:48
  Leyla Zmeskal: Whether it's how big the truth is, or how small it is. There's some hint of truth as the basis.
• 10:59
  Trisha Smith: Right.
• 10:59
  Leyla Zmeskal: In each of these stories.
• 11:01
  Trisha Smith: I feel like she, when she said she went into these places, and she felt something or whatnot. I I think that maybe she did?
• 11:10
  Leyla Zmeskal: Absolutely. She could be a sensitive.
• 11:12
  Trisha Smith: Right. And then embellished it, just embellished it for, you know, the sake of the story. But I don't think that it's all made up.
• 11:23
  Leyla Zmeskal: No. I don't think no,
• 11:24
  Trisha Smith: Yeah,
• 11:25
  Leyla Zmeskal: No, I think you have to have something to go with.
• 11:28
  Trisha Smith: Exactly.
• 11:29
  Leyla Zmeskal: for things to go anywhere.
• 11:31
  Trisha Smith: Right.
• 11:32
  Leyla Zmeskal: In my opinion.
• 11:33
  Trisha Smith: Right. We're gonna start today, talking about the Warrens themselves. And how they started.
• 11:42
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yeah,
• 11:43
  Trisha Smith: cuz I think that's not
• 11:45
  Leyla Zmeskal: To me that's interesting.
• 11:45
  Trisha Smith: Yeah, that doesn't get focused on a lot. So over the course of 50 years, they became one of the most recognizable names associated with the paranormal community.
• 11:55
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh, absolutely.
• 11:57
  Trisha Smith: Really. I mean, when you look about, look back at their timeframe, there weren't other people out there really doing what they were doing.
• 12:05
  Leyla Zmeskal: No, not at all.
• 12:07
  Trisha Smith: without there being something to back it up.
• 12:07
  Trisha Smith: Right. So I found a lot of information about their early history, as well as their investigations in a book called
• 12:15
  The Demonologist: The Extraordinary Career of Ed and Lorraine Warren, that was written by Gerald Brittle in 2013. I actually bought the book, because, you know, it's like, I was getting little bits and pieces, right. Then I'm And so I feel like they had some little kernels of truth they like, Oh, what about this? I want to know about this. So I bought the book. And the wit, the Warrens were interviewed extensively for this book,
• 12:41
  Leyla Zmeskal: Of course they were.
• 12:41
  Trisha Smith: So obviously,
• 12:43
  Leyla Zmeskal: It's very Warren forward.
• 13:00
  Leyla Zmeskal: made into a mountain, Right. Right. And to the franchise that it is today.
• 13:15
  Trisha Smith: Yes, yes. So with so much history, you know, we just have to start the beginning. Before the Warrens even met, the paranormal was playing a part in their lives.
• 13:26
  Trisha Smith: And I don't know if a lot of people know this. I did not, but Ed claims to have grown up in a haunted house. When he was just five years old, he said he saw an apparition of his family's landlady, who had died the year before. Soon after, he would dream of unknown relatives who had already died, including an aunt, who told him he would help many priests, but never become a priest himself. Which falls in line with
• 13:57
  Leyla Zmeskal: with what really happened.
• 13:58
  Trisha Smith: Yeah, the work they ended up doing. So like Ed,
• 13:59
  Leyla Zmeskal: I mean, especially in Catholic school.
• 14:02
  Leyla Zmeskal: Lorraine's experiences with the paranormal began at an early age, but she thought it was normal, and that everyone else could see things the way she could. But when she was 12, she realized she was unique. In the book, The Demonologist, she tells a story of her classmates planting a sapling for Arbor Day. She says, just as soon as they put the sapling in the
• 14:26
  Trisha Smith: I know. To be like, I can see the future. I ground, "I saw it as a fully grown tree." A nun asked what she was looking at in the sky.
• 14:31
  Trisha Smith: And when she told her, the nun asked, "Are you seeing the future?" To which Lorraine replied, "Yes, I guess I am." Which, that's kind of risky.
• 14:47
  Trisha Smith: mean, I don't know. Oh, I would've kept that quiet.
• 14:51
  Leyla Zmeskal: I wouldn't want my knuckles smacked with a ruler. I don't know if that's what they do in Catholic school.
• 14:55
  Leyla Zmeskal: I never went to Catholic school.
• 14:55
  Leyla Zmeskal: So. I'm not even a Catholic. So I don't know. I'm just, I'm just pure speculation on my part. But in the movies, that's what I've seen happen.
• 15:06
  Trisha Smith: Right, maybe. But clearly that didn't happen to her because she said it out loud.
• 15:11
  Leyla Zmeskal: Maybe it was a nice Catholic nun.
• 15:12
  Trisha Smith: Maybe. Every now and then, you know, around town,
• 15:14
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yeah, who's gonna want to become a nun nowadays?
• 15:15
  Leyla Zmeskal: I'll see a nun here or there, but they're always old. So it makes me wonder, like, how do they keep their ranks up? Do they, like, go out and actively recruit in their churches?
• 15:26
  Trisha Smith: Right? I would, you would have to look into why people became nuns to begin with.
• 15:31
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yeah.
• 15:32
  Trisha Smith: Maybe if you go to Catholic school, they're like, we highly encourage you to explore being a nun or a priest, as you grow older. It's like a little video.
• 15:41
  Leyla Zmeskal: The benefits of being a nun or a priest.
• 15:44
  Trisha Smith: Maybe.
• 15:45
  Leyla Zmeskal: Tired of being jilted by the other boys in the class. Tired of having that heavy weight of society raining down on you about your personal appearance? or social climbing?
• 15:57
  Trisha Smith: Do you want job security?
• 16:00
  Leyla Zmeskal: Then join the nunnery. We have wonderful benefits.
• 16:04
  Trisha Smith: You never know.
• 16:04
  Trisha Smith: I've never been. I'm gonna have to ask somebody who's been to Catholic school. Do they have recruitment videos in your school?
• 16:12
  Leyla Zmeskal: Was that bad of us just to joke about that?
• 16:14
  Trisha Smith: It probably is.
• 16:16
  Leyla Zmeskal: If we offended anybody?
• 16:18
  Trisha Smith: Sorry.
• 16:19
  Leyla Zmeskal: I guess, but you already know who we are. So it's really not shocking.
• 16:25
  Trisha Smith: Well, I'm not trying to be offensive. I'm truly curious how they continue to, like, get people to do that.
• 16:32
  Trisha Smith: Now days, in this type of society, with social media. And, you know, how do they,
• 16:38
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yeah,
• 16:39
  Trisha Smith: keep people, like how do they get people to like, be that
• 16:44
  Leyla Zmeskal: Devout?
• 16:45
  Trisha Smith: Yes. That they're like, I'm gonna not do any of the things that the world is telling me I'm supposed to do.
• 16:50
  Leyla Zmeskal: Or everything my friends are doing.
• 16:52
  Trisha Smith: Right. To dedicate myself to this life. I just, you know, in this day and age.
• 16:58
  Leyla Zmeskal: I don't know.
• 16:59
  Trisha Smith: I can understand like, back in the 20s.
• 17:01
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yeah. Or, or, you know what, maybe
• 17:03
  Trisha Smith: The 1800s. Or whenever, but where are the young ones coming from? That's my question.
• 17:08
  Leyla Zmeskal: I don't know.
• 17:08
  Trisha Smith: Okay, anyways.
• 17:08
  Trisha Smith: Anyways. So off topic.
• 17:14
  Leyla Zmeskal: How did we get on that subject?
• 17:14
  Trisha Smith: I don't know, but back to Ed and Lorraine Warren.
• 17:18
  Leyla Zmeskal: Back to the Warren's.
• 17:19
  Trisha Smith: Right. Who, I, I mean, I knew they were married for a long time, but they were together for a long time.
• 17:26
  Leyla Zmeskal: They were together for their whole lives,
• 17:29
  Trisha Smith: Right. They were both born and raised in almost.
• 17:32
  Trisha Smith: Connecticut and met in 1944.
• 17:34
  Leyla Zmeskal: Damn.
• 17:35
  Trisha Smith: I know. They were both just 16 years old at the time.
• 17:39
  Leyla Zmeskal: I mean, basically, that's their whole lives.
• 17:41
  Trisha Smith: Right. Right. In the third conjuring movie, The Devil Made Me Do It, when Lorraine recalls meeting Ed when he was an usher at a movie theater. This is actually true.
• 17:54
  Trisha Smith: That's how they met. So they began dating, and just a year later, when Ed was 17 years old, he enlisted in the Navy during World War Two. He hadn't been deployed for long when he was sent home for 30 days for survivors leave after his ship went down in the North Atlantic.
• 18:12
  Leyla Zmeskal: Mm hmm.
• 18:13
  Trisha Smith: I did not know that either. It was during that time that Ed Lorraine got married. And shortly after in January of 1947, their only daughter, Judy, was born. So when you watch the movies, they always portray Judy, as you know, what is she 10?
• 18:29
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yeah,
• 18:30
  Trisha Smith: 9, 10 years old,
• 18:31
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yeah, I would say around that age.
• 18:32
  Trisha Smith: Right. Which, in the 70s, she would have already been well into her 30s.
• 18:37
  Leyla Zmeskal: Right. And I have my little part of it, I have, You know, interesting little fact about Judy.
• 18:42
  Trisha Smith: Okay. When Ed was discharged from the Navy, they I mean, sure, why not? If you can do something you love to do had to decide how to support their family. Because they both were decent landscape artists, they decided that's what they'd do. Be artists.
• 18:56
  Trisha Smith: and get paid for it? Why not?
• 18:58
  Leyla Zmeskal: Hmm.
• 18:58
  Leyla Zmeskal: Right. But they were artists with a twist. Instead of
• 18:58
  Trisha Smith: So they go to the houses, sketch them and then landscapes. They decided to paint homes that Ed found in the offer to give the homeowner the sketch for more information paper that were rumored to be haunted.
• 19:15
  Trisha Smith: about the haunting in the home.
• 19:15
  Trisha Smith: If the story was a good one, they'd actually complete a painting of the house and sell the artwork later. For about five years, they traveled around the United States, painting, and investigating haunted houses and became well known to other mediums, clergymen and Catholic priests who practiced exorcisms.
• 19:38
  Leyla Zmeskal: I mean, that's a that's an easy way to become well known.
• 19:41
  Trisha Smith: Right. Way to build your Rolodex. You know, I'm gonna just keep him on file.
• 19:46
  Trisha Smith: They were often called in when people, objects, and even sometimes the priests were said to be possessed. After gathering so much information during their travels, the Warrens decided they needed a more permanent place to work on their investigations, and house their growing inventory of files, tapes, and haunted objects. So in 1952, they founded the New England Society for Psychic Research, with the sole intent of helping possessed people. Fun fact,
• 20:18
  Leyla Zmeskal: do gooders
• 20:19
  Trisha Smith: And their son in law still runs it today.
• 20:23
  Leyla Zmeskal: Not the daughter.
• 20:24
  Trisha Smith: Not the daughter.
• 20:25
  Leyla Zmeskal: Which is strange.
• 20:26
  Trisha Smith: Right. But my little fun fact is that the society is the oldest ghost hunting organization in New England.
• 20:35
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh, wow.
• 20:36
  Trisha Smith: Which I would have thought New England would have.
• 20:38
  Leyla Zmeskal: I know a lot more, maybe something a little older than that.
• 20:41
  Trisha Smith: RIght. They also created the Occult Museum, which was located in a room adjacent to Ed's office in their home, where the famous Annabelle doll resides. I know. I wouldn't want that in my house. So unfortunately, unless they've moved the museum, we'll never be able to roadtrip and go see it because it was shut down in 2019 due to zoning issues, but you can still see photos of the contents online. And there's a lot of fucking dolls. Like dolls and masks.
• 21:22
  Leyla Zmeskal: I don't know.
• 21:22
  Leyla Zmeskal: Masks don't creep me out as much
• 21:25
  Trisha Smith: These would. These are like somebody, like, put as dolls.
• 21:28
  Trisha Smith: plaster on their face and just ripped it off. And it just, like
• 21:29
  Leyla Zmeskal: paper mache, that weird, like
• 21:35
  Trisha Smith: Mental patient masks. Yeah, it's creepy.
• 21:39
  Trisha Smith: Creepy. All you have to do is Google Occult Museum. It'll pop up. It says it's closed. But there's tons of pictures from people who've been there.
• 21:47
  Leyla Zmeskal: Because it only was closed in 2019. So that's, that leaves room for a lot of visitors up until 2019.
• 21:53
  Trisha Smith: Right? So yeah,
• 21:55
  Leyla Zmeskal: not that long ago.
• 21:56
  Trisha Smith: Check it out. It's pretty, it's pretty good. So I mean, if you want to be creeped out, it's pretty good. I know, we've talked a lot about the money that was made from the Warrens investigations, but they never actually charged money for the investigations that they did. They actually considered themselves educators, and first started generating income giving lectures at colleges because of the growing interest in the occult in the late 60s.
• 22:28
  Leyla Zmeskal: Okay.
• 22:29
  Trisha Smith: They specifically chose colleges, because they felt it was students who were being adversely affected by the misinformation out there. And they hoped that through their lectures, they'd be able to discourage them from exploring the occult in the first place.
• 22:45
  Leyla Zmeskal: That's interesting.
• 22:46
  Trisha Smith: But as we know, as their popularity grew, their biggest source of income came from licensing the rights to their stories for books, TV, and movie projects. Ed Warren passed away in 2006, at the age of 79.
• 22:59
  Trisha Smith: Lorraine lived until the age of 92, passing away in 2019. And I'm wondering if that has something to do with the zoning,
• 23:10
  Leyla Zmeskal: Probably.
• 23:11
  Trisha Smith: On their little museum.
• 23:12
  Leyla Zmeskal: Probably, because it was probably whatever she lived, she was alive, everything was grandfathered in. But as soon as she died, then that's probably when,
• 23:19
  Trisha Smith: They were like, no more.
• 23:21
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yeah,
• 23:21
  Trisha Smith: right.
• 23:21
  Leyla Zmeskal: That's interesting.
• 23:23
  Trisha Smith: Yeah. When I was reading about, you know, their licensing rights and things like that, I got a list of the movies that were about or inspired by the Warrens.
• 23:35
  Leyla Zmeskal: Okay.
• 23:35
  Trisha Smith: Starting with the Amityville Horror in 1979, and the remake in 2005. Did you know The Amityville Horror has 18 sequels?
• 23:47
  Leyla Zmeskal: Isn't another one about ready to come out too?
• 23:50
  Trisha Smith: Well, there's one as recently as 2020 that was made in 2020. And that may be the one that's coming out.
• 23:56
  Leyla Zmeskal: That's coming out now. Okay.
• 23:57
  Trisha Smith: Yeah.
• 23:59
  Leyla Zmeskal: That's a lot.
• 24:00
  Trisha Smith: 18 sequels.
• 24:01
  Leyla Zmeskal: From Amityville.
• 24:02
  Trisha Smith: From a story that's like, not even real.
• 24:05
  Leyla Zmeskal: Controversial? I was just gonna say controversial.
• 24:09
  Trisha Smith: So then we have the Conjuring Universe, which we've discussed, which includes The Conjuring one through three, which directly features the Warrens.
• 24:19
  Leyla Zmeskal: Absolutely.
• 24:20
  Trisha Smith: Which in all the other movies, they did not.
• 24:24
  Leyla Zmeskal: RIght.
• 24:25
  Trisha Smith: As well as Annabelle one through three, The Nun and sorry, I'm gonna, I'm gonna butcher it, The Curse of Llorona. You know what I'm talking,
• 24:38
  Leyla Zmeskal: the one that's like the L and the L?
• 24:42
  Trisha Smith: Yes.
• 24:43
  Leyla Zmeskal: I've never watched that.
• 24:45
  Trisha Smith: It was good, but I didn't realize it was connected.
• 24:47
  Leyla Zmeskal: I didn't realize either.
• 24:49
  Trisha Smith: It's the priest. I guess the priest from The Nun is in that, and then in another, another one from the other movies. So there is supposedly a Conjuring 4 in the works, and The Nun 2, as well.
• 25:06
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh really?
• 25:07
  Trisha Smith: And a spinoff from The Conjuring 2 movie called, The Crooked Man, is in the works. Did you know that the psychologist in the movie, The Poltergeist, is rumored to be based on Lorraine Warren. Do you remember the redheaded lady that comes in with her team?
• 25:27
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh, yes.
• 25:28
  Trisha Smith: Yeah, she's based on Lorraine Warren.
• 25:31
  Trisha Smith: I did not know that. The Haunted was a made for
• 25:31
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh, okay.
• 25:34
  Leyla Zmeskal: TV movie based on the Smurl family. I think I mentioned that. The Haunting in Connecticut was based on the Snedeker family. And a lot of people think Insidious is part of the Conjuring Universe. And while it's been rumored that the medium in the movie, Elise, is based on Lorraine, it's completely fiction. But people make this assumption because Patrick Wilson is in both movies.
• 26:01
  Leyla Zmeskal: And that's why they think it's related.
• 26:02
  Trisha Smith: And both movies were written and directed by James Wan. In completely unrelated news, there is talk of an Insidious/Sinister crossover movie. And I just tell, I was telling you the other day, I rewatched Sinister, and, so scary. And then now they're gonna do a crossover with Insidious. Has nothing to do with the Warrens at all. But when I read that, I'm like, I would go see that.
• 26:28
  Leyla Zmeskal: I'm in. I'm in.
• 26:31
  Trisha Smith: That is my very biased view of the Warrens early years and their life, but I know you took the unbiased route.
• 26:42
  Leyla Zmeskal: And you know what, there is absolutely no doubt that their cases and stories are certainly interesting, and sometimes scary.
• 26:51
  Trisha Smith: Right.
• 26:52
  Leyla Zmeskal: And as we mentioned, their movies are entertaining. And you know, there's people that support the Warrens, that claim that they've helped them immensely and solved their problems. While other families say that they felt conned or even tricked by them into believing the story that the Warrens actually wanted them to believe.
• 27:14
  Trisha Smith: Oh.
• 27:14
  Leyla Zmeskal: People have come out saying that the Warrens are nothing more than very good storytellers and frauds.
• 27:22
  Trisha Smith: Wow.
• 27:24
  Leyla Zmeskal: And their cases they've worked on have certainly caused accusations of fraud, as we know, which has followed the Warrens throughout their long career as paranormal investigators. We know authors who have worked with the Warrens, to write about their stories, claim that they've were told just to make up stories and make them scary. We know that in the Snedeker case.
• 27:48
  Trisha Smith: Right.
• 27:50
  Leyla Zmeskal: When Ed literally came out and said, They're crazy, just, you have a good, you have a good base, just make up the rest, and make it sound scary. We've also heard about how they promised people that they were able to view documentation related to the cases, and the Warrens never produced it, saying for one reason or another, they can't find it or it's with this, you know, or it's the it's here or there. We know that they claim to be part of famous hauntings, but actually were never really involved. Just like with last week's episode, and the Enfield Poltergeist. They claim that they were involved. They just blazed in uninvited, just for one day and then blazed out. So it seems like the Warrens definitely knew how to take advantage and make the most of the situation, and make it out to, like, to make them look good. They can manipulate and scare people into going along with them by claiming demons were involved. It seems every case that the Warrens ended up doing was being caused by demons of some sort. It was the time when cults were performing satanic rituals, the occult and devil worship were everywhere.
• 29:02
  Leyla Zmeskal: And of course, there was that damned heavy metal music Well, and I think, too as me, like, doing my, my little metal horns.
• 29:13
  Trisha Smith: They, at that time also, was just really, you didn't get information the way we get it now.
• 29:18
  Leyla Zmeskal: No.
• 29:18
  Trisha Smith: You had to watch the news. You had to hear it from somebody. You had to read it in the paper. And sometimes it wasn't always true. And so things could spread much,
• 29:30
  Leyla Zmeskal: Like wildfire.
• 29:31
  Trisha Smith: Right. False information.
• 29:32
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh absolutey, and false information spreads like wildfire today.
• 29:36
  Trisha Smith: Right. Much faster too.
• 29:38
  Leyla Zmeskal: Absolutely.
• 29:38
  Trisha Smith: But I mean, nobody really knew what, what was real and what was not.
• 29:43
  Leyla Zmeskal: And everybody was scared of everything. So according to the Warrens, they were devout Roman Catholics.
• 29:49
  Leyla Zmeskal: With their faith and belief in the supernatural, it actually allowed them to work closely with the Catholic Church, as you mentioned in your part of the story. If there was a knock, a smell, a draft, or a person possessed, the Warrens helped as consultants to families who were suffering from household demons, as you mentioned. They would often say that the fairy tale is true. The devil exists. God exists. And for us as people, our very Destiny hinges upon which one we elect to follow.
• 30:26
  Leyla Zmeskal: That's that's what the Warrens used to say. I think there's even like a, like a video of Ed actually saying that. Or maybe Lorraine or something. Some say that the ghosts and demons were just a hook to get people to listen to them about how people refuse to conform to traditional family values. And only people who submitted to the church would be safe. Why did you say that the Warrens chose universities to talk to the young people?
• 30:53
  Trisha Smith: Right.
• 30:54
  Leyla Zmeskal: In the book, you mentioned, Trisha, The Demonologist, it lays down the law, saying Ouija boards would get you haunted. But so would also reading books about witchcraft, or owning an image of a non Christian deity, or even attending self conscientiousness, raising groups. Things like hate, rage, despair, misery, drunkenness, and a suicidal sense of worthlessness will all attract demons, in a snap. And by the way, so would disobedient children. As we know, from some of the stories, disobedient children were the focus of some demons.
• 31:40
  Trisha Smith: Right.
• 31:41
  Leyla Zmeskal: I mean, it kind of plays into everything.
• 31:44
  Trisha Smith: Right.
• 31:45
  Leyla Zmeskal: They went on to say that a happy home is your best defense. And even the most powerful exorcism will only be effective if you keep an emotional atmosphere that does not attract such entities. Oh, and if you go to church at least once a week, that'll help too.
• 32:03
  Leyla Zmeskal: So it's interesting that in your part of it, that they targeted universities, to the young people, especially during the height of Satanic Panic. It kind of like ties into that whole, that they were very religious, and very much believed in that traditional family
• 32:25
  Trisha Smith: Right.
• 32:26
  Leyla Zmeskal: atmosphere and values. The Warrens certainly appeared to be the picture perfect of Christians in this.
• 32:34
  Leyla Zmeskal: And certainly, that's the story that the Warrens wanted you to know. And that's the story that they told. And Lorraine played a very key role into shaping of the Conjuring Universe until their death. And in the movies, Ed and Lorraine had what appeared to be one of the greatest love stories of all time. And you mentioned that, you know, they met when they were young, he survived a traumatic event at sea, and he came home and he married her and they live, you know, happily ever after. But their portrayal of their love story in the movies, it certainly wasn't an accident. It's said that in their contract that they had, there were very specific demands on how they would be portrayed.
• 33:18
  Trisha Smith: Oh, wow.
• 33:20
  Leyla Zmeskal: For instance, neither Ed nor Lorraine could be depicted sexually assaulting anyone, or having sex with minors in the Conjuring series.
• 33:29
  Trisha Smith: What?
• 33:30
  Leyla Zmeskal: I'm not lying.
• 33:31
  Trisha Smith: Why would you even, like,
• 33:33
  Leyla Zmeskal: How specific is that?
• 33:34
  Trisha Smith: I know, but I just, that's such a weird thing to be like, Oh, hey, by the way,
• 33:41
  Leyla Zmeskal: Do you want to hear any, something even worse?
• 33:43
  Trisha Smith: Yes.
• 33:44
  Leyla Zmeskal: So also, neither husband nor wife could be depicted as participating in an extra marital sexual relationship.
• 33:56
  Trisha Smith: What?
• 33:57
  Leyla Zmeskal: I know, I know.
• 33:57
  Leyla Zmeskal: Those are some pretty damn odd demands for how the Warrens could be portrayed in the movies.
• 34:04
  Trisha Smith: Considering she was a consultant until her death, you know, on the on the movies. Why? I mean,
• 34:13
  Leyla Zmeskal: Strange, huh?
• 34:13
  Trisha Smith: Right.
• 34:14
  Leyla Zmeskal: I've read many articles about this. So I can't cite just one. But even lawyers said, you know, it's not uncommon that we have demands on how certain people can be portrayed, and what, and what can be, you know, in the movies, and how they're, you know, interacting. But this language was so specific, and so detailed, that even the lawyers thought it was a little odd.
• 34:37
  Trisha Smith: Wow.
• 34:38
  Leyla Zmeskal: So it seems there might have been a reason for this.
• 34:41
  Trisha Smith: Okay.
• 34:43
  Leyla Zmeskal: In the early 60s, when Ed was in his mid 30s, and before the Warrens even hit it big, Ed worked as a city bus driver, and it was there that he met this 15 year old girl named Judith Penney.
• 34:56
  Trisha Smith: Oh.
• 34:56
  Leyla Zmeskal: Penney was a high school student in a nearby town
• 34:56
  Trisha Smith: She's 15.
• 35:00
  Trisha Smith: who rode the bus. And that began a, an amorous relationship.
• 35:02
  Leyla Zmeskal: And by the time, and by 1963, she had moved into the Warrens home.
• 35:12
  Trisha Smith: What?
• 35:14
  Leyla Zmeskal: Where the next 40 years, she had a sexual relationship with Ed.
• 35:19
  Trisha Smith: Ewww.
• 35:19
  Leyla Zmeskal: And Lorraine knew all about it.
• 35:22
  Trisha Smith: Oh.
• 35:23
  Leyla Zmeskal: Penney said at first, she stayed in the bedroom directly across Ed and Lorraines, because she had her own. But then eventually she moved into apartment that was built for her above the home.
• 35:35
  Trisha Smith: Oh.
• 35:37
  Leyla Zmeskal: She went on to say that "one night Ed would sleep downstairs, and the other night he would sleep upstairs".
• 35:44
  Trisha Smith: Wow.
• 35:46
  Leyla Zmeskal: And according to Penney, she was even arrested in 1963, after someone reported her relationship with Ed.
• 35:52
  Trisha Smith: She was arrested?
• 35:53
  Leyla Zmeskal: She was arrested.
• 35:55
  Trisha Smith: Okay, she was not even an adult yet.
• 35:58
  Leyla Zmeskal: She was arrested.
• 35:58
  Leyla Zmeskal: Penney said that the police tried to get her to sign a statement admitting the affair, but Penney refused. It said that also, in some of the things I read that she was punished by having to attend these weekly counseling or, you know, juvenile whatever groups, and that Ed would pick her up from school, and drive her to her appointment, and then drive her back home. She often said that Ed would tell her that she was the love of his life. But when people would ask about her, the Warrens would say that she was a niece, or some poor girl whom they had taken in out of charity. Which is odd because their own daughter didn't even live with them.
• 36:43
  Trisha Smith: Right.
• 36:43
  Leyla Zmeskal: She lived with Lorraine's mother instead.
• 36:45
  Trisha Smith: Well, and the daughter would have been, like, the same age.
• 36:51
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yeah. And their own daughter didn't live with them.
• 36:55
  Trisha Smith: Wow.
• 36:55
  Leyla Zmeskal: But then you have this girl that's living with them, that Ed's having this affair with. Penney further went on to say that in May of 1978, she'd become pregnant with Ed's child. And once Lorraine found out, she told Penney that she has to have an abortion due to the social implications, and of the potential scandal that could ruin the Warrens business. And that wasn't all Penney revealed about the Warrens. She also said that Ed was actually abusive to Lorraine. She said she saw him backhand Lorraine so hard that she was knocked unconscious. And then sometimes Ed would just slap her to shut her the fuck up. She didn't say fuck in the article, I'd added that.
• 37:38
  Trisha Smith: Oh my gosh.
• 37:41
  Leyla Zmeskal: Which, you know, if you think about it, we've heard stories about how confrontational Ed could be.
• 37:45
  Trisha Smith: Right. And that would probably explain too, why she put up with this living arrangement.
• 37:52
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yeah, so even though Penney never publicly told her story, everything almost came out in a lawsuit over the Conjuring franchise to people were suing for various reasons. Which is not surprising, because something that big, and there's that much money to be had, somebody's always going to have an issue, thinking that they are entitled to a piece of the pot.
• 38:13
  Trisha Smith: So how did her story end up getting out?
• 38:15
  Leyla Zmeskal: Because somebody knew something, like somebody who was suing knew her, and they were saying that she will like, give up the rights or they will give up this but she never, she never attempted to cash in on anything.
• 38:27
  Trisha Smith: Wow.
• 38:28
  Leyla Zmeskal: So Penney's still alive. And she never made anything off the Conjuring Universe. It's clear that she has no love for Lorraine or had no love for Lorraine. And she had very fond feelings for Ed, even after they split up in 2003.
• 38:42
  Trisha Smith: Wow. But he died soon after.
• 38:44
  Leyla Zmeskal: I know. And they remained friends until his death.
• 38:46
  Trisha Smith: Wow.
• 38:47
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yeah.
• 38:47
  Trisha Smith: Okay.
• 38:48
  Leyla Zmeskal: So after learning more about the Warrens, it's, it's pretty damn clear that there were always issues there.
• 38:53
  Trisha Smith: Yeah, I guess so.
• 38:54
  Leyla Zmeskal: I mean, Lorraine denied Penney's claims through her representative because at that time, Lorraine was getting a little older. You know. She denied making up the hauntings.
• 39:05
  Leyla Zmeskal: And there was a lot of debate about the Warrens, there will probably never be any clear answer to any of it. They have always been a subject of much debate in the paranormal field.
• 39:16
  Leyla Zmeskal: And it's doubtful that, that will change. So you'll have to just make up your own,
• 39:22
  Trisha Smith: Yeah,
• 39:23
  Leyla Zmeskal: idea. You know, over the years, the ghost hunting industry has really taken off, especially with the internet and TV. And today, there's apps and gizmos and gadgets galore for hunting spirits and ghosts and trying to communicate with them. After all, what everybody was really just trying to, is hunting for, is just anything strange. And really, that can't be explained away.
• 39:45
  Trisha Smith: Right.
• 39:46
  Leyla Zmeskal: You know?
• 39:46
  Trisha Smith: So back to Judith Penney. How come Lorraine never sued her? Like how did the story like, How did her side
• 39:53
  Leyla Zmeskal: and like why wasn't, why wasn't she sued for potential defa-- but maybe because Penney never came out and told her story.
• 40:01
  Trisha Smith: How did her story get out?
• 40:03
  Leyla Zmeskal: Leak?
• 40:04
  Trisha Smith: Yeah, how did her, like, version of events get out?
• 40:07
  Leyla Zmeskal: Because I think people knew about it. I mean, if they had a 40 year, 40 year relationship, people have to know about it. They, it's not, that's something you can't keep secret. Penney herself never came out and said. She said that she helped Ed. But she never came out and said, "This is my story. And I'm going to make money off of it". In the lawsuit, that was potentially like one of the huge parts, issues about it? Because then it brought light onto Ed Warren's relationship, and how they're portrayed on screen. Which that may have come into play why there was such specific demands on how the actors could portray Ed and Lorraine. I mean, those are pretty specific.
• 40:50
  Trisha Smith: Right. Right.
• 40:51
  Leyla Zmeskal: Their love story, was very curated for the movies for a reason. Because most people aren't going to take the time to research Ed and Lorraine in depth to find out what the real story of their relationships were. They'll just watch the movies and think that they had one of the greatest passionate love stories of all time.
• 41:14
  Trisha Smith: Right.
• 41:14
  Leyla Zmeskal: Little does everybody know that Ed's got this young, little girl.
• 41:18
  Trisha Smith: That's crazy.
• 41:18
  Trisha Smith: After all is said and done.
• 41:22
  Leyla Zmeskal: There's a lot.
• 41:23
  Trisha Smith: There's a lot, and you have to, just take it for what it is. They're both gone.
• 41:26
  Trisha Smith: It's just what out, what's out there. Now, you know, whatever is out there. That's the information you have. And like I said, In the beginning, they actually did a lot as far as bringing, you know, paranormal research into the forefront.
• 41:43
  Leyla Zmeskal: Think of how popular ghost hunting shows are now.
• 41:47
  Trisha Smith: Now.
• 41:47
  Leyla Zmeskal: Think of how many pieces of equipment are now out there for ghost hunting. And you know, like I said, you know, aren't we all just looking for things that are weird and can't be explained away.
• 41:57
  Trisha Smith: And they've, you know, done a lot that's created this entertaining world, you know, with the movies and everything so, yeah,
• 42:06
  Leyla Zmeskal: I did,. Yeah, yeah. I didn't focus on their, on their movies, and their, because we've, I feel like we've done that. Yeah, I like focused on things that were like, no lie.
• 42:16
  Trisha Smith: Yeah, they're, they're an interesting couple.
• 42:19
  Leyla Zmeskal: Oh, without a doubt.
• 42:20
  Trisha Smith: Yeah. Who lived a very long life.
• 42:22
  Leyla Zmeskal: And interesting life.
• 42:23
  Trisha Smith: And interesting life. And, you know,
• 42:26
  Leyla Zmeskal: It is what it is.
• 42:27
  Trisha Smith: Yeah. Good for them.
• 42:29
  Leyla Zmeskal: Yeah.
• 42:29
  Trisha Smith: I hope my, I hope somebody is talking about me when I'm, you know, 90 and have been married for what? 70 something years. That's a long time.
• 42:39
  Leyla Zmeskal: Whether it's good or bad, you know, that's still a long time for people to be together.
• 42:43
  Trisha Smith: Right.
• 42:44
  Leyla Zmeskal: Even when they got to the point of being really famous.
• 42:47
  Trisha Smith: Yeah.
• 42:47
  Leyla Zmeskal: We've seen so many famous couples split, and their like, we don't fucking care.
• 42:51
  Trisha Smith: Yeah, we'll do what we want.
• 42:52
  Leyla Zmeskal: That was an interesting part about the Warrens that wasn't heavily focused on the movies.
• 42:57
  Trisha Smith: Mm hmm. Well, we are done.
• 43:02
  Leyla Zmeskal: Done.
• 43:03
  Trisha Smith: We're done. We're done with our, sort of.
• 43:05
  Leyla Zmeskal: Closed.
• 43:06
  Trisha Smith: Sort of. Because next week.
• 43:08
  Leyla Zmeskal: Kind of.
• 43:09
  Trisha Smith: Well, we're pretty much done talking about the Warrens, but we enjoyed talking about the stories that they, you know, inspired, or the stories that inspired them, I guess, depending on how you look at it.
• 43:20
  Trisha Smith: But after watching Amityville, and then hearing it pop up over and over and over, in all the stories that we were doing about the Warrens, I had to look into it.
• 43:33
  Leyla Zmeskal: You did.
• 43:33
  Trisha Smith: And so I did. I deep dived.
• 43:38
  Leyla Zmeskal: I know.
• 43:38
  Trisha Smith: And so I'm gonna be back next week with part one of a two part deep dive into Amityville Horror. It's really interesting. Part paranormal, part true crime. I mean, all the things I love.
• 43:54
  Leyla Zmeskal: It's gonna be good.
• 43:54
  Trisha Smith: Yeah, so good.
• 43:56
  Leyla Zmeskal: I'm ready.
• 43:56
  Trisha Smith: All right. Well, until next week,
• 43:59
  Leyla Zmeskal: until then, cheers.
• 44:10
  Leyla Zmeskal: Hello, and welcome to boozy banter with friends.
• 44:14
  Trisha Smith: Join us this week as we explore the supernatural with the little SAS the unexplained and a sign of stars and tales of other worldly shenanigans.
• 44:25
  Leyla Zmeskal: Grab your favorite spirit and join me Laila and me,
• 44:29
  Trisha Smith: Trisha and meet us on the other side.