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What does Quantum Physics have to to do with Change in Organizations? · Authentic Living

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Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a place where we have conscious conversations
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about things that really matter in our lives.
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And now here's your host, Roxanne Derhodge.
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Hi, everyone.
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It's Roxanne.
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How are you this week?
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So thanks for tuning in, again.
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This week, I have a special, guest that's Ravi Tangry.
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Is that the correct way to pronounce it, Ravi?
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Tangry.
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Ravi is a colleague of mine from the Canadian Association of Professional Speakers.
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He has been a member for a very long time.
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That probably about a year ago in, Ottawa at our National conference.
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So Ravi has based in Halifax, and he is, quite a fascinating, back.
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He's got a fascinating background.
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Working organization.
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So I'm gonna read a little bit about his bio and, you know, if there's anything that I miss,
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Ravi, if you can add to it, that would be fantastic.
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So, organizations and organizational changes are incredibly complex, and Rabbi Taggrade
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Master complexity in 1st career as a quantum physicist, which is a quite an fascinating
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perspective.
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He's learned that the secret to complexity is not not to find the simple sorry.
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He learned that secret to complexity is to find the simple pressure points where you apply tiny
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pressures and the whole system changes.
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It's not about trying to control everything and overcomplicating at all.
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This is the lens he's used as a change agent both within organizations and as a consultant
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for almost 3 decades.
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So that's quite a while at at, this type of work.
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To help organizations navigate complex change.
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Ravi has a master's degree to a double master's degree.
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Masters of science and an MBA and has earned his certified speaking professional designation
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And that's quite, one of the highest designations in speaking, where we I think we
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have only a handful of CSPs in Canada quite quite the accomplishment.
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So, Ravi, thanks so much for being with me today.
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And, you know, I think the thing to to realize is, you know, with with that intro just to
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realize this is whenever people think physics or quantum physics, their their head blows up
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or their eyes glazed over.
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Right?
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This is not about crazy, crazy, complex stuff.
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It's about really finding the simplicity in what's working.
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So, yeah, because when you think of generally when think people think of quantum physics,
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it's like a big concept, and we generally don't think of quantum physics, I guess, unless
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you're, breaking it down in in the scientific field.
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And I know neuroscience talks a little bit more about it now.
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So you work a lot with organizations.
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So tell me tell me kind of, first of all, how did you make that shift?
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Because that's that's quite that's quite the that's quite the shit, Robbie.
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I wish I could say that I planned it.
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But, no, the universe takes you where you need to go.
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I started out.
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I was a nerdy geeky, shit, and math came really easy to me.
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It's like second language.
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So I wanted to do something, not just pure math, but applied.
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So I went into physics and it was fun.
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It was interesting.
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Interesting enough for me to do some graduate work in.
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And but it Really wasn't my passion.
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And along the way, as I sort of grew out of my shyness, grew out of my nerdiness, and I I
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discovered you know, like, at the same time that I was doing my graduate work in physics, I
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was also DJing at a night club and I was, running at telethon for children's charity.
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And I I sort of realized that people are my passion.
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I'm not eating radiation.
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So I went back to school, after working for a bit, and I got my MBA.
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And then When I the first job I got very quickly within a few months, I was drafted into
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a team that we reinvented the way we did business.
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This was before all the books were out and all this stuff on on that.
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And what I discovered is that the way of seeing the world that I developed as a physicist of
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navigating complexity of finding those simple pressure points that applied to 100% to working
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with organizational change to working with individuals, in change.
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It's not about trying to muscle the change in and create massive change.
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It's about really this tiny little pressure points.
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I mean, think about it.
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If you're thinking about a simple way people get it, is with traffic.
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Okay?
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So, you know, like, oh, god forbid the 401.
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I still have nightmares of that from when I It's in Toronto, but, you know, you get one
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car.
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All it takes is one car at the right spot and what happens?
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That's a tiny little pressure point and the entire thing shuts down.
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Mhmm.
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Right?
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And all of a sudden, you've got a parking lot.
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Not just the lane it's in, but the entire thing backs up.
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And that's one tiny little pressure point, and it takes time to get the emergency vehicles
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there and all that and to clear that.
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Mhmm.
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But one and once it's cleared in a very short time, all of a sudden, things flow is very
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well, but it's that tiny little block that that not only kills that thing, but all the other
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streets because everyone's now going on the other routes, which normally don't have that
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much traffic.
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So all of a sudden, nobody can get into the city.
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Well, that's that's an a nice example.
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So so I've worked a lot in I've worked in, corporate and health and wellness consulting
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for about 16 years, Ravi.
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So I've worked, you know, as an executive, and I had a kind of we worked at kind of the
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impact, psychologically, what was happening different within different sectors, and we need
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recommendations, you know, based from banking to the legal profession.
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And kind of looked at the stressors psychologically that would keep people away
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from work.
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So when you think of that traffic jam or that little detour, when you work with
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organizations, and what capacity are they bringing you in?
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Are they generally bringing you in to put out a fire, or are they more proactive in kind of
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looking at what they're trying to achieve with their long term goals?
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It's usually honestly, there's some sort of a crisis that's hit either with competition or a
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budget slash or, regulatory changes where all of a sudden they're they're freaking out
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because just the way they've done it, they you can't cut anymore.
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I mean, we've done you know, it's been due less with more for so long that now everyone's been
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doing everything with nothing.
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Right?
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So you there's nowhere left cut.
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So they're they're going they they just don't know what to do.
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And really that's important because in some in a way, you have to let go of your your
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reflexive ways of doing things to open to new ways.
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What I work with is something that I call co creative leadership.
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You know, most of the leadership books that are out there talk about transformational visionary
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leadership.
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That's basically where the leader has the vision.
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It's like, I have seen the promise lay in, then I will take you there.
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Yay us.
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Right?
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And the trouble is he can get people excited about it, but when Kaka hits the fan, it's not
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their vision.
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So they they they they drop off.
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And co creative leadership is where the leader has to have the strength to step out of his or
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her ego and say, you know what?
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I don't have all the answers.
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I can't see the vision.
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It's too complex.
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I need to engage everybody to collectively craft the way forward.
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And let's co create it.
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And that takes a lot Not many leaders are willing or able to do that, to to be able to
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surrender power, if you will, to the wisdom of the group, but the group always knows, has the
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information, but you you cannot con it's so complex out there now that one person or an
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executive team alone, it's an incredibly hard for you to control everything you need to.
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Right.
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Because to some degree, and I'm gonna use the word man, but a lot of these CEOs, as we know
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at the C suite, are still predominantly men out there.
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To get to that level, I mean, you have to have a certain ability or capacity to sit in that
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chair.
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And now you're you're talking about in a way going against the grain a bit in that it's
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going against potentially them being in con and I'm gonna use the word in control you're
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talking about almost having them step down in a way, even if it's figuratively, to kinda get in
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there, get in there in the pond with everybody else so that they can connect more
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authentically as a person or as a CEO, what what what's kind of the concept in your when
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you, do your particular program or concept with organizations?
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Well, it's basically that that, you know, the the the the CEOs got to realize that, you know,
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and this is why it's a crisis often where they're more open to this.
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That they they cannot do it.
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Like, everything they know is not working.
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And the the thing is, you know, I I I chuckle at when people talk about change management
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because what other type of management is there?
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Nothing stays static.
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Right?
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It it's it's ridiculously And it's back to the old adage that people don't mind change.
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They just don't like being changed.
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And all of this resistance and all this stuff, but most people dealing with is people fighting
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them resisting all that that change because it's being done.
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It might got the energy that's galvanized and the insight that's galvanized.
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But it it doesn't have to be this CEO or the executive team that comes up with all the
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answers.
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And and part of that is there a very different processes where you can engage people.
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Like, most ways that people think of engagement, the old ways that that they
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actually encourage disengagement, or they give a voice to the vocal minority, which the the,
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you know, leadership generally dreads hearing, but there's processes now where you can
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literally I can literally take a thousand person organization away 3 days and have them
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collectively craft a strategic plan for the organization to move forward.
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But it takes boyaboy takes huge courage for the leader to trust that Their plan.
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What happens to the resistance to change when you implement?
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It's gone.
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Right?
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Because they've created it.
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They've had the input.
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The buy in is there.
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And all that energy.
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All think about in organizations, people say we don't wanna have the time to do this.
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Well, think about the last 2 years, all the change you've gone through, how really be
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brutally honest with yourself.
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How much time have you invested dealing with resistance change.
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People that are fighting you overtly covert.
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COVID resistance is huge.
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Mhmm.
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Disengagement.
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You know, there's a huge rise in organizations of presentee as you know, absenteeism where
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they've is physically not their their presenteeism.
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They're physically at work.
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It's like hello.
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Nobody's home, man.
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So imagine having all of that energy then collectively focused together.
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That's it's it's amazing when that happens.
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So I'm I'm gonna assume then, Ravi, that there's first of all, the organizations in dire
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straits they've cut every lean card off.
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There's nowhere else to cut.
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They're still not getting competitive within their against their external pressures and
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competitors.
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They call somebody like you in.
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So I would think that to some degree, you would probably have to work with the CEO as much as
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you have to work with the the the thousand employees that you're taking off-site.
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Absolutely.
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So tell me the process that you use, and is it is it, concurrence, or is it that you work with
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the CEO for a bit, and then you introduce the concept of cool leadership.
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How how do you do that?
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Honestly, it it will vary.
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You know, you can't say that there's a cookie cutter.
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And that's part of what my what makes it challenging sometimes is that my approach is
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not a cookie cutter, you know, step on step 2.
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You have to adapt to what's there.
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And the the thing is first is to get the the and and really to some extent, it can work
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concurrently, but usually there is some work initially with the CEO.
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Even before I would start coaching them, just in exploring the contract.
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There's actually some some work there.
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And, really, let's get clear if you do nothing What's gonna happen?
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Where are we gonna be?
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Where are you gonna be in 2 years?
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Let's concretize that.
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Let's let so that they because people tend to create a wall of fog that if, you know, if I,
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you know, they they pretend they can't see what's coming and it's like if I don't see it,
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maybe it won't happen.
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Well, not the case.
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Though.
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It's how so there's conversations there.
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Okay.
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What's going on?
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And and then one of the things that work has, not just what's what's wrong.
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Well, one of the principles I work with is called appreciative inquiry, which is let's
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look at what's going right.
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What are you doing that's working well?
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Because we wanna build that because normally we just start with what's wrong and rip people
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apart.
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So what are what's working well?
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Great.
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Now where do you wanna be?
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Where's the gap?
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How do we do that?
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And then when we'll collectively craft to wait forward there.
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Okay.
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Okay.
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And a lot of time, people are disengaged.
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So they they need to feel that it's safe to be involved.
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So just as a CEO needs to get there, you also need to Sometimes the people are so beaten down
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with change after change after change that they have to feel it's safe to trust and to step and
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to offer something.
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And I would think too that off you'd probably have to do, like, a bit of an autopsy and how
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they've dealt with changes prior to that also because I know that when in my role, in health
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and wellness.
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One of the things that I would do is, you know, when when there was downsized and rightsizing
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whatever you called, we'd call in teams and you know, or if there was a trauma, we would call
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in teams and whatever.
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We had all the full spectrum of services, but sometimes a lot of those changes were dealt
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with rather poorly.
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So I don't does that kind of is that a frame you're looking at also when you're going in?
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Well, first, I will never work with the downsizing.
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I'm sorry.
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It's you cannot, uh-uh, there are organizations that have called me in after to say how do we
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move forward, but I will not work with any organization on downsizing.
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Because it's doesn't matter what you do.
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It's really, really hard to engage people with the possibility that they're living in fear
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that they're the ones that are gonna be cut.
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Right.
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And I also believe there are always always always options with you can reallocate those
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people that maybe aren't adding value now to other ventures that will add value to other
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ways they can add value they may not have the same job, but they could have a job of similar
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value.
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And if the CEO is willing to make that commitment going in, then, yes, I'll work with
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them that, yes, people may get displaced out of their current jobs, but there's a guarantee
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that you will have a job of equal value that makes a difference then then I'll work with
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them because then they the people are feeling more assured that you've got their back.
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Mhmm.
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Mhmm.
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Absolutely.
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Because I would think that you know, I I've been, obviously, like, anybody that's ever been
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in corporate.
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I've been in that position, and I did it for years.
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And I remember when I got mine, It was like, okay.
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Where was this coming from?
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But of course, they had been a merger 6 months prior.
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And of But, of course, when you're the one it's happening for, it it becomes personal.
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It's not no longer able to, you know, the overall strategic business objectives, you
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know, because it obviously was at a higher level.
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But as a person at that point, it it it, of course, it affected me.
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I'd spent 10 years you know, giving my heart and soul to the company, and then you find out,
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okay.
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Guess what?
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You know, here's here's my laptop.
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Here's my phone.
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Okay.
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Goodbye.
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Yeah.
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Later.
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That's that's that could be quite difficult.
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So if that's done poorly, that impact, obviously, anyone coming in to work with the
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organization.
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Would you agree?
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Right.
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And and the thing is when you lay off some or when someone leaves, Let's be brutally honest
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to you.
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Even if you're not being nice to the person, it's not not about that person, how you treat
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that person is going to be impact the survivors.
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And how committed they are.
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Right.
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For sure.
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Right?
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So if you're brutal and this and that, they're wondering, okay.
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When's my turn?
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Versus, you know, this one of the most amazing leaders.
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I know he had someone who came to him and said, look, I've got this opportunity I mean, it was
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a great work environment he was in, but I've got this other opportunity.
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And the boss went and supported him said, look, I'll give you the reference.
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What do you need?
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Boom.
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Boom.
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Boom.
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Here's how do we find?
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How do we make the transition work?
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All of this totally supported this guy growing his career.
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He wound up coming back several years later.
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But the thing is the impact it had on everybody else to know that, you know, forget firing.
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If I'm looking for another opportunity, I'm still supported.
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And that's reality today that, you know, I I think they get much worse wrapped than the that
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they're but millennials are not lifers.
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Right?
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They will work for a certain amount of time.
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And if you are a good leader, you can increase and they'll be with you, but they will probably
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leave.
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And then they may come back years later with more skills.
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How you work with that is critical to the level of commitment and critical to whether or not
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they will ever come back with those extra skills.
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And to that leader, what's better, I'm gonna use the word PR, not that he's promoting what
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it would have happened, but his steps fact that he would have helped that person in such a a a
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gracious way, I'm sure, spread like wildfire, right?
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Because generally, it did.
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That goodwill at to that level.
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And then it gets out there that, you know, yes, things are tough.
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We're, you know, we're going through a rough time.
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But this particular person took the time.
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So I would think, you know, in our day and age with everything being out there, how quickly,
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that would have spread probably within that organization or even the him having hit the
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capacity to come back and add value again a couple weeks later.
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Well, let's call it PR because in today's day and age, if people treat you wonderfully or if
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people treat you terribly, it's probably gonna wind up on social media.
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Absolutely.
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Well, you see the captions, whether it's I waited too long and I had bad service to
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somebody being pulled off a plane, you know, we see it all now within minutes.
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So, really, to some degree, it is a level of PR.
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So I think you're right.
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It's it's now I would think that's, organizations and CEOs or C level ceased, we
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have a lot more pressure to really make sure that they work on themselves to get it right.
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Yep.
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It's and and the thing is, you see, there's that pressure gain that you cannot control
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everything.
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And it the old model is that you've gotta control everything.
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You're in No.
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You you've got it's about controlling the right things, and that's where this the the the
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complexity thing comes in about what what are the tiny little things that you need to control
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that will keep everything on track.
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So, I mean, give you a couple of really simple examples.
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Right?
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One is what I call goal alignment.
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Are the goals aligned, and and that those critical, you know, the the buzzword is moments
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of truth when you can either do something amazing for your customer to wow them or
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something goes wrong and you can resolve them and resolve the problem.
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Right?
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How often is management there at those moments of truth?
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Not very often?
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No.
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It's a front liner.
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And what are they motivated to do?
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And I'll tell you nine times out of 10, they are usually motivated to take off the customer,
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and it's not just what the hell it's the I'm sorry.
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I don't have the authority for this.
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I don't Right.
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I'll I'll I'll give you an an an example of this is, you know, in our business, we travel a
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fair bit.
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Right?
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So what have we seen for the last several years in in hotels that, you know, if you hang your
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towel up, it will save the environment.
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They're Right.
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Also saving themselves laundry.
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But but but if you if you leave it on the floor, we'll replace it.
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I've hung up my towel.
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I don't know how many places and guess what?
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I come back in and there is a new towel.
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Why is that?
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I'll tell you why.
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Because if someone who's doesn't care is not paying attention.
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This hangs up the towel.
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They expect a new towel.
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They come back and the dirty towel is there.
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They could on the phone and they tear a strip off the operator who calls the operations
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person who yells at the the the the, you know, the the the maid or the cleaning staff who are
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already overworked and understaffed, and they have to run back to that room and change it.
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Right?
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Yes.
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If easier for them to just change every towel so they don't have to deal with that because
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you know what?
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The people who are environmentally conscious don't call up and get angry that you've changed
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the towel.
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So the that's, you know, that that it's not just the goals, formal goals you have.
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It's what they're held accountable for.
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Right?
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And what what they are, what they are punished for.
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That's the that drives the goals.
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And if, you know, if you are saying we wanna be customer and cons, folks, but then you are
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really coming down on expenses and and, you know, people are punished for doing extra.
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Guess what?
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You're not gonna get that customer focused.
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Let's get some congruence there.
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You're almost working at cross purposes to your goal.
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Because that's Absolutely.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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There's no almost you you are.
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And so it's it's it's to pull out these tiny little things that that you don't even see when
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you're in an organization where the goals are not in alignment and and you're actually
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motivating your your customers, your your employees to tick off your customers.
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And that's not not just for private sector.
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Public sector has customers too.
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And it may not be cash or profits, but it's you've gotta deliver service and so on, and you
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still get in the way.
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So, you
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know, it's that's a perfect example.
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I I worked at the hospital.
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I ran a unit.
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And I came in.
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I was the, you know, the, you know, young grad schools, you know, graduate.
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I'm going in.
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I'm going into management.
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Right.
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Really young.
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You know, and, there was a senior person there who to put it kind of Let me, she was not very
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good.
25:24
She would react and would consistently fire people in when she was in a bad mood.
25:30
So I took over this unit and people were petrified, Robbie.
25:34
So they saw me.
25:35
They thought, oh, you know, It won't take long.
25:38
We'll get rid of her soon because they, you know, they were they were ready for me because
25:42
they thought, okay.
25:43
You know what the senior person is like, and then they hired me, and I come in.
25:47
And I literally, I used to joke around with them once I, you know, things got better that I
25:51
thought they had my picture of myself in a in their basements on a dartboard and they used to
25:56
use poison darts to see if they could, you know, you know, hit my face because they were
26:02
so mistrustful and and they they were serving people in addictions.
26:08
So imagine that they're clinicians, and they're being treated badly, and then they have to go
26:14
out and serve you know, people that are pretty critical.
26:17
So the whole process was that they had had minimal the the trust had been stripped at such
26:24
a level that it didn't matter.
26:25
They could have put the Dalai Lama in that position.
26:28
They probably would have done the same to him.
26:30
So you know, having seen that, you're so right.
26:32
It's a little the little little things, you know, at Christmas one time.
26:37
One little thing I did because I thought I gotta do something so before they, you know,
26:41
find other problems.
26:43
I I did shirts with just the unit on it, Christmas shirts, something simple, probably
26:50
cost me probably cost me 5 bucks a shirt.
26:55
It made their year.
26:58
Because they were important.
26:59
They're special, you know, those types of things with their name on it just with you
27:04
know, with something really silly and a little luncheon, which was nothing.
27:08
So it's so it's so true when you say, people just need to know you know, treat me well so
27:15
that I can go out and do what's expected of me, but don't disconnect me from the, you know, the
27:19
mission and the vision and all those things.
27:22
But when it comes down just to me, that a little person in your unit, you're treating me
27:27
like I'm I'm I'm not worthy of good things.
27:32
Okay.
27:32
Now there's one thing too.
27:34
That's really important to how you treat each person.
27:37
Right?
27:38
And and and just another quick aside.
27:40
There's very little black and white in in organizational culture, but if you look at
27:47
turnover, I'd if not a 100 99% of turnover is because of the bus.
27:54
If you have high turnover, it's a 100% because of the boss.
27:58
There's no black and white.
27:59
There's no gray.
28:00
It's it's it's, you know, people leave bosses, not jobs.
28:04
I mean, yes, some people leave jobs for us, but, you know, other than the new
28:09
opportunities.
28:10
But The other thing, the mission vision, let's touch on that.
28:13
1st of all, most missions and visions are about as motivating as a root canal.
28:21
Okay?
28:21
We strive to be a world class provider of insert, our product here.
28:28
It's BS.
28:29
You know, that it's so so watered down and politically correct.
28:33
It means nothing.
28:35
When I work on strategic planning with organizations, we don't start with that.
28:39
We start with what's our shared purpose.
28:42
Why do we exist?
28:43
But in plain English, And if we can, we will literally engage the whole organization in
28:52
this.
28:53
Now you said health care.
28:54
I worked in a major 4 year transformation program here in Nova Scotia.
28:59
I was involved with a a major one in the United States.
29:02
At one point, in both of these projects to different health care systems.
29:08
Right?
29:09
Very different health care systems.
29:10
We have the whole system in the room.
29:12
We have 300 people in, an auditorium here in Nova Scotia.
29:18
Everyone from CEOs of hospitals and Department of Health rep all the way to, you know, to
29:25
different colleges down to people on the line and all that.
29:27
We had about eighty people in Columbus, Ohio, and we in both we spend a whole morning using
29:33
the process called World Cafe where people sit, you know, typical engagement processes and have
29:39
you at tables of 8 or 10, which is ludicrous because 1 or 2 people talk, 1 or 2 people
29:45
listen and the rest are checking their phones.
29:47
It's pointless.
29:49
It's it's a total another waste of time.
29:53
Or they have those big auditoriums with a couple of microphones that that intimidate
30:00
everybody.
30:00
And, again, it's the vocal minority that speaks.
30:03
That's, I mean, that's you might as well not waste your time and money.
30:06
That that's that's ludicrous.
30:08
World Cafe has people.
30:10
If you think about real meaningful conversations, they happen with not with ten
30:17
people at a table or a hundred people in room, but with three or four people around the
30:21
kitchen table, around the the, you know, the the the lunchroom around the water cooler.
30:26
And that's what World Cafe does is has groups of four people and you seat it with very
30:32
powerful questions.
30:34
And then between rounds, between questions, you move people around so you cross pollinate
30:38
ideas.
30:39
So you can actually in a very short time, bring a room of thousand people to consensus.
30:47
On get them on the same page.
30:49
And what we did in this at this stage of both projects is we spent a half a day just asking
30:54
people what should the purpose of the health care system be.
30:58
Okay?
30:59
And move people around and 3 half an hour or an hour.
31:05
Right?
31:05
Just to as a cross poll.
31:07
And virtually every table in both countries came to the exact same definition with a few
31:13
few changes.
31:14
And what they said was that the purpose of the health care system should be to support ongoing
31:19
wellness and treat occasional disease.
31:21
Is that what we've got in either country?
31:25
No.
31:25
We've got an illness care system because we had no clear purpose we just reacted and we just
31:31
built and built and re how much different would it look if we'd started with that purpose,
31:36
which is plain English, that everybody in the health care system can understand how they
31:41
contribute.
31:41
And here's a funny thing here in Nova Scotia when we did it, after when we got to that, some
31:48
a senior member of the department of health puts a hand up and said, well, we did this,
31:52
uh-uh, last year, and we came to virtually same definition.
31:56
I I went and asked 300 people, does anyone know about this?
32:00
Not a hand wound up.
32:02
So even if it's the biggest player in the system, the department of health, the it's
32:07
totally irrelevant if they do it alone.
32:09
This was the entire system doing it together So they bought in.
32:13
Does that make sense?
32:14
Absolutely.
32:15
So you start with that in plain English, then you build your strategies, your competencies,
32:22
everything from that, everyone has contributed to it.
32:25
They buy in.
32:27
Now the strategy doesn't fit that.
32:29
It becomes is does it contribute to that.
32:32
Wow.
32:33
That's powerful because what you're doing is you're you're in a way interviewing or having a
32:41
conversation about each person's perspective of how they perceive it.
32:45
And then from that, you're building out your strategic plan, which is j generally.
32:52
What's more?
32:53
You know?
32:55
Everyone's voice was heard.
32:57
Like the the, you know, the the LPN on the line had equal say to the minister of health and the
33:07
CEOs of the hospitals and the minister of the depart you know, it's everyone had equal say?
33:15
So, you know, and how powerful is that?
33:17
I was just gonna ask you that question, but I think you have answered it is How powerful is
33:21
that for somebody like an LPN to say, I I helped draft that.
33:27
Those two words were mine or you know, how powerful?
33:30
So when they are dealing with someone that say maybe a disgruntled patron, they could really
33:35
embody, you know, what it's all about and what their role is.
33:39
And how Right.
33:40
They can.
33:41
Yeah.
33:41
Feel good about that.
33:43
Whereas most people look at the vision or mission statement and they roll their eyes.
33:47
Absolutely.
33:48
Absolutely.
33:48
Because it doesn't mean a thing.
33:50
It's so whitewashed and politically correct.
33:54
It means nothing.
33:55
And if there's no energy there.
33:58
If there's no emotion, it's irrelevant.
34:01
Right.
34:01
Right.
34:03
So how long okay.
34:04
So the co creative process, I would assume that that's what that's input.
34:07
Is that kind of what you do, or is there more to the co creative process?
34:12
Yeah.
34:13
I mean, co creative leadership is about engaging others.
34:16
Ideally, and there's very few that do I worked with a, an organization, a few years ago with 3
34:24
divisions where what we did.
34:25
Oh my god.
34:26
This is so glorious.
34:28
I wish we could do this more.
34:29
We spent months.
34:31
We spent, like, a couple of months traveling the country engaging in all the three
34:37
divisions.
34:38
We engaged everybody across the country to say, you know, what now each of these teams had
34:44
representatives from across the country from all levels and what we did for an intense time
34:51
together is we took all of that input from across the country and collectively crafted a
34:57
strategy going forward for for the that each of those divisions.
35:01
Then we went across the country again.
35:05
To everybody, engage people, what they liked, what they didn't, what were the concerns, and
35:10
so on.
35:11
And so and then implemented those, And so, you know, the thing is when it got to in the past,
35:19
they had felt they had not been bought in.
35:21
They'd been resisting the strategy because they had had no voice.
35:25
Now they had had a voice all the way through.
35:28
So all the resistance to change.
35:30
Guess what?
35:31
It goes poof.
35:32
Right?
35:32
So all that Energy.
35:34
Now everyone is bought into.
35:36
This is how we need to move forward.
35:38
And it it was a pretty transformational strategy.
35:42
In each case and for each of the
35:43
divisions.
35:45
Wow.
35:46
And have you been, are you still connected with them now, to know how they're doing?
35:50
Do you like like, a, like, a pre and post or a follow-up.
35:55
Yeah.
35:55
Yeah.
35:56
I mean, you know, I was working honestly with these 3 divisions.
35:59
I was working almost full time for 6 months with them, to do, you know, all of those
36:04
engagements across the country.
36:07
But and, yeah, I do stay in touch that that it's, you know, it's still moving forward,
36:11
still implementing.
36:13
And and, of course, there's changes that have happened to any strategy.
36:16
Has to adapt to what comes down the road, but they're still on track.
36:22
Wow.
36:22
That's amazing.
36:24
Yeah.
36:24
So it's it's really, you know, when I listen to what you're saying, it's really about the way
36:28
the approach, the old, our takeaway of macro to micro, really, it it's it's almost like it's
36:36
it's it's I'm gonna use the word bilateral in a way that you're kinda concurrently working with
36:42
spectrum continually and kind of figuring out what's the best approach.
36:47
And now when you do those co creative spaces, I'm sure you're gonna also or assume you also
36:57
identify areas with skill development and, core competencies or or gaps gaps or things they
37:08
need to implement or put in place to kind of
37:12
But instead of it just being the executive team that has to come up with a the people, all of
37:17
the people involved, including the people who are doing the work that identify what the gaps
37:22
are and what needs to happen.
37:24
So the the, you know, it's much more comprehensive in that.
37:29
And and the thing is it's a mindset shift for leaders that instead of doing it all, they're
37:36
responsible for making it all happen.
37:40
So the burden is not on them to come up with the solutions and such, the burden is on them
37:46
to to create the space where the solution can be generated where you tap the wisdom in the
37:51
group to collectively craft the way forward.
37:56
Yeah.
37:57
It's it sounds like a really, amazing process that I would think would be just because, like,
38:04
I mean, if I have buy in, at every level from the person, you know, I often say that when I
38:08
would go into organizations, when I would visit them, kind of get the pulse based on what the
38:14
receptionist was like as I sat there and waited for my contact to come out and kind of get a
38:20
pulse of was, you know, because a lot of times, you know, I would get a lot of information
38:26
about just how people that were being greeted.
38:30
How people were kind of being in interest walk by, those types of things.
38:35
And, It's very intuitive.
38:38
I mean, when you're working with complexity, you can't the mathematics going back to the
38:43
physics, the mathematics is so complex.
38:45
You can't think it.
38:46
You have to feel it.
38:48
And you have to feel intuitively where those pressure points are.
38:52
The same applies when you're working with people an organization.
38:55
You sense it.
38:57
Uh-uh, you know, you can sense where those pressure points are, and you can sense what the
39:01
culture is.
39:02
You're right.
39:03
From what's happening with the receptionist.
39:07
So it's not based on the formalized assessments and based on what metrics of particular subsets
39:15
of the organization.
39:16
You're ready at the end of the day.
39:18
You're going out.
39:19
You're you're experiencing people.
39:20
You're you're intuiting and I would think as you meet different parts of the organizations
39:25
or different.
39:26
And then you're formulating on a on an I I would I mean, I I think that you're doing an
39:31
ongoing assess on additional information that's coming to you.
39:35
Yes.
39:35
Often.
39:36
Well, there are frameworks, but it's part of my work is helping my clients develop disability,
39:41
right, to find those pressure points.
39:42
Okay.
39:43
And and then also for leaders, there are assessments.
39:46
I mean, with leadership, you can actually concretize it with things like 360 degree
39:53
surveys, right, which by the good 360s, break it down to specific behaviors, but it gets the
40:00
perception of the leader versus the perception of the people that report to them.
40:06
That is that provides the, you know, helps you identify what are the shifts and that
40:11
concretize it down to very specific behaviors that they need to shift to be able to shift
40:18
their effectiveness.
40:19
It makes it much more doable rather than you know, this hand waving, ooey, wooy, wooy,
40:25
gooey, leadership stuff.
40:30
So that's That's it seems so very unscientific.
40:35
You know, but it's it's so true.
40:36
It's a combination.
40:37
Very scientific.
40:38
Yeah.
40:39
Yeah.
40:39
It's but but but it's a combination affecting at your certain things.
40:44
You're you're benchmarking it, but then you're kind of you're you're letting people kind of
40:47
lead the way based on what they've experienced with the organization.
40:51
Right.
40:51
But also just realize that the science I come from is completely diff this is not the physics
40:56
you learned in high school that hurt your brain.
40:58
Okay?
40:59
The event is new 20 in physics where everything is predictable and controllable, and that's the
41:04
old style of management, which does not work has never worked.
41:08
It's better than chaos, but it's, you know, quantum physics some of the premises and when
41:15
you're dealing with complexity, you cannot know everything, and it's all about probabilities
41:21
and how you shift probabilities, and it's these tiny little things that shift the
41:26
probabilities.
41:27
And that's what this is about.
41:29
You know, you're not guaranteed and anything, but it's like you're loading your dice to
41:34
increase the odds of getting there to find those price.
41:37
And one of the key pressure points is engagement real engagement, not just, okay,
41:42
we'll engage people.
41:43
And, yes, that's a nice exercise you did, but this is, you know, you don't really know what's
41:47
going on.
41:48
I know more.
41:49
So here's the strategy we can have, real engagement where you're taking what people
41:55
develop and implementing them.
41:57
And they know that their voice is heard.
42:00
So the real deal that what we talk about when they have get togethers or you know, off kind
42:08
of conversations between pair to pair, those are the wild 2 and really kind of get the real
42:13
sense of what's happening.
42:14
Yeah.
42:14
I mean, one of the processes that I use called OpenSpace Technology and developed by a guy who
42:20
used to organize conferences, and he realized that the most powerful con conversations that
42:26
happen at conferences are not in the sessions.
42:29
They're at the coffee table.
42:31
So he said, how can we turn those coffee conversations into the conference?
42:36
And so what open space is about there's no agenda no speakers.
42:40
And I've gone into meetings like this where no speakers, no agenda, and I say, k.
42:46
What are your burning questions?
42:48
And then they the people at the conference.
42:51
It can be 100 or even thousands of them call meetings on what's important to them, and
42:56
everyone goes to the meetings that has energy for them, whether either they have something to
43:01
contribute or something to learn.
43:03
And you know what?
43:04
You get so much more done because they identify what's relevant and they tap into the wisdom
43:10
that is in the room.
43:11
They've got all the answers.
43:12
I've actually got gone through that process.
43:14
It's interesting.
43:15
It was it was quite amazing.
43:16
So that's something or amount when you consult also.
43:19
Yeah.
43:20
I mean, these are the type of engagement processes where you can let every voice be
43:25
heard equally and you bring people in and and it moves it to action.
43:31
You know, that that's the key.
43:32
It's got gotta move it forward.
43:34
It's not just nice little talks.
43:36
What's gonna happen?
43:37
Ravi, this has been very enlightening.
43:40
I've learned I've learned a lot, and I I one listening would have been enlightened, by all
43:45
the things you've shared.
43:47
So what I'd like to, just Where can people reach you and, is there that you'd like to let
43:52
them know how they can connect if they wanted to, work a bit more with you?
43:57
Well, something that I do.
43:58
I mean, this is this is very different from your traditional way of looking at our
44:04
leadership at at strategy development.
44:06
If If you're curious, if this is twiggy curiosity and there's some energy to it, what I
44:10
do offer is a complimentary, strategy consultation for about 50 minutes where we can
44:17
talk about what's working, what's not in yours, and how where there may be some quick ways that
44:24
you could apply this on your own or other opportunities to do it more broadly.
44:28
And if if they're interested in that, they can just go to, a site called Calendly, calendly,
44:40
dotcomforward/ravidashtangry, t a n g r I.
44:48
And, they can you can schedule it on your own there.
44:51
Awesome.
44:52
Well, Robbie, thanks so much again for sharing your wisdom.
44:56
I've learned a lot, and I know it it impacts what I world, and I'm I'm sure people listening
45:01
will do the same.
45:02
So again, for everyone listening, just recognize it doesn't have to be complex.
45:07
If you're quite simple, regardless of what system in your in your life you're trying to
45:11
adjust look for the clues, figure out what's not working, happen to that intuitive sense
45:18
that Grabbi shared with us, about what small thing, you know, that you could potentially use
45:24
to build and start to make change a little step of the time and not try to kind of, address
45:30
everything that may have been developing for a long time.
45:33
So take care, everyone, and we'll, next time.
45:37
If you're wanting more information on me, you can go to Roxanne, but forward slash blueprint
45:43
where you can download a free to get a bit more authentically connected to yourself so you can
45:48
be better with everyone around you.
45:51
Okay?
45:51
Take care.
45:51
We'll talk soon.
45:52
Bye, Robbie.
45:53
Bye bye.
45:55
Thanks for tuning in to authentic living with Roxanne, creating the space for positive,
46:01
healthy change.
46:02
Roxanne is a keynote speaker psychotherapist, and coach to work with Roxanne, visit
46:08
roxannedurhaj.com/blueprint.
46:12
We'll see you next time.
46:14
On authentic living with Roxanne.