Latest / The Authority Podcast — Expert Insights and Fresh Ideas for Education Leaders / How to Do It Now Because It's Not Going Away: An Expert Guide to Getting Stuff Done with Leslie Josel
Transcript
- Ross Romano: [00:00:00] Welcome back everybody. You're listening once again to the Authority Podcast on the Be Podcast Network. And before we get started today, I would just like to take a moment to thank all of you listeners who have been with us. Over these past several months, as we've built up quite a few episodes at this point and had some great conversations. And, I want to thank you for being here. And if you're enjoying the show, please share it with a friend or a colleague. We appreciate any reviews and ratings you have. But in the interest of time management, I do wanna get into today's conversation. That's the topic we're talking about. My guest today is Leslie Jocel, and she is an award-winning a D H D academic and a parenting coach who's been listed by global gurus. For the past seven years as a top 20 time management [00:01:00] expert globally, Leslie is the creator of the award-winning academic planner, a tool for time management, which is a planner that helps students develop their time management skills. She's also an award-winning author of three books, including the one we're talking about today, which is called How to Do It Now because it's not going away. An expert guy to getting stuff done and Leslie, welcome to the Authority. Leslie Josel: Oh, I'm so excited to be here. Thank you for having me. We can have a good time. Ross Romano: Yes, absolutely. Let's start here. You write, kind of in the marketing materials for the book, right? And telling, the book is written for teens, we should say to our listeners, but we're gonna talk about this conversation, certainly from the perspective of what students deal with, but also how educators and parents can support those teens. You're right. Let's face it, everyone procrastinates, which number one, how dare you now, number two. So why in particular, everybody does procrastinate or at least struggle with procrastination, even if we've gotten good at time management, it's an ongoing battle, right? Nobody is probably a natural at being an expert. But why is it so [00:02:00] tough, in particular for teens, middle schoolers, high schoolers, college students as they are, really coming into their own and dealing with this. Leslie Josel: So just to clarify, the book was written for high schoolers and college students, and the reason why I make that clarification and here's the interesting thing too, the book was written to them. But with, really the hope that parents and educators would read it. So you're writing not a young adult book, but yet you're marketing it. I wanna be upfront to parents and educators and I'm saying this not to, to promote the book, but I'm saying this so that we all know like how important the conversation is. So here's a fun fact, the publisher. Who took this book was a, is a publisher of educational materials where they sell their books into school libraries. So yes, it had a retail audience, but I think it's really like interesting to note that that was who it went [00:03:00] to. It went into almost every library in every public school in the country, because for educators to, get their hands on. Okay, so you ask about procrastination. Here's the thing. Everyone does do it. But to understand procrastination truthfully is we need to really define what procrastination means. And I know that sounds such like an educator thing to say, let's define it. But if we're all starting in different places, then we're really not gonna get on board with what it truly means. Most of us look at procrastination as a delay. That's really what it is. I put this off. I didn't get to it right away. I waited till the last minute. How many of you have said that before? But believe it or not, that's not really, truly, truly procrastination and all its glory. To truly, truly procrastinate, it means to delay something, put something off, or not do it at all. Sometimes knowing, [00:04:00] here's the second part, knowing that there is a consequence to your action. On the other side, Ross Romano: Right. Leslie Josel: and we forget about that. So we feel that a lot of times, particularly parents and even educators who say, I don't understand this paper's due in a week. Why is my student not starting it now? Well, is that really procrastination? If a student really needs to start something maybe three days ahead of time instead of a week and actually gets it done and gets it done well without stress and anxiety? No. That's actually not procrastination. So might be call it functional procrastination, but what I really wanna hone in on is that procrastination. There must be a consequence. It must be you ever hear, like you ever hear a kid go, there's steaks involved. I don't mean steaks that you eat, like it's high steaks. That's the thing. That's the question. Why do we, why do our students procrastinate knowing they're gonna face that consequence? Like if you're gonna [00:05:00] get the wrath of a teacher or professor, a parent, why the heck do you still do it? Because believe it or not, sometimes getting the consequence. It's a heck of a lot easier than doing what that student is being asked to do. Ross Romano: Yeah. Leslie Josel: That's like, that's where we start, and I think that's powerful. I think that's really powerful to understand that if you're given a student and they're sitting there going, well, I can get punished or yelled at or get a whatever it is a consequence. That's a heck of a lot easier to take than trying to study for that exam or try to write that paper or try to do whatever it is someone's asking me to do. I'm gonna, I'm gonna take number two, Ross Romano: Yeah. Leslie Josel: so we need to get to the root. (ad here 5:50.00) Ross Romano: And then as it, piles on, right? and we end up chronically procrastinating. Of course the consequences of each individual situation [00:06:00] are particular to what that is, but there's also like big picture consequences to getting stuck in that cycle of procrastinating on everything again and again and again. What are some of those. Leslie Josel: We see this a, lot with students. That when, we call it a snowball versus, a boulder. So, okay I put off, or I didn't do like my one I had, I even had a student, I didn't do my one physics assignment. That's one, that's a snowball, right? Ross Romano: Mm-hmm. Leslie Josel: In the grand scheme of things. But then what happens is that, we get into a vicious cycle of, well, if I didn't do a, an A, gloves on to B Now, I haven't done any work in a month. Now I'm failing the class. Now I'm not. So what we really need, and I keep saying it, is we really need to get to the roots of what it is for that student that is causing so much procrastination. And, I always say procrastination doesn't live alone, right? There's always something underneath that's happening. And unfortunately, it's not a one size fits all answer. [00:07:00] So, What I loved, and I'm, and I'm, again, I'm not doing this to sell books, I'm doing this to explain what we did in the book is I've been doing this for 19 years where I am an academic life coach for teens. So I've had tens of thousands of students in many different capacities. But what I didn't want was the book to just be my voice. So what we did is we went back, And we tried to find almost every student that I had worked with over the course of like, let's say 10 years. And we gave them like a, a whole mess of questions to answer. Now I knew a lot of it just doing what I do, and some of those questions are fun, like, , what's the best grade you got for something you never worked on? Or When did your friend come in clutch for you? Right? Things like that. But then we really did ask them, like, if you can look back, what was the biggest reason why you procrastinated? And what was really incredible is the answers we got were very varied. Some were about time, some were about [00:08:00] time, but a lot weren't. A lot are about skill. If I don't know how to do something, I'm just not going to do it. No one ever taught me how to write a paper, how to study, how to break it down into manageable parts. Some kids are just overwhelmed by the sheer amount. Of what is being asked of them, right? There's that snowball. You keep piling on and piling on. There's just no way to dig out from a hundred pound boulder. Some kids are perfectionists, some kids don't give a crap. Sorry. I hope that's okay that I said that, but that is very big and came out like where what they really are saying is there had to be meaning for them about why they were ha they were being asked. And a lot of them came back with, I had no choice and control. Now granted, you're looking at a population that has executive dysfunction, A D H D, and learning difficulties. So again, you're [00:09:00] looking at a group of kids who might have been saying, I get told all the time how to do something, when to do something. , in a way that doesn't work for me. Ross Romano: Right. Leslie Josel: I need choice and control to be able to do what it is. I needed to do, and I think that one is like the one we don't really talk about, right? Ross Romano: Yeah. Yeah. And I, ascertain that there's, in some ways potentially a hidden Consequence, use consequence again of this where, a lot of times, of course, and in most instances, likely the term procrastination or the act of procrastinating is applied around. Things that we need to do, right? An assignment, a task, a whatever, something that we're supposed to do and it has a particular deadline and you need, and we push it to the last minute and we don't do it as well as we could, or we don't get ahead of it and ask the questions that we [00:10:00] need to ask or. So on and so forth, right? We avoid facing that task. However, right? Procrastination can also apply to things that we want to do, to opportunities to things that are our ambitions that people may not know that we wanna do, or it may not have been assigned to us. And then, Those are the things that to, head against the title a little bit. But those are the things that do go away, right? I mean these things that are assigned to us and people are asking us to do, like right. It just hangs over your head until you get it done, and then it causes all this anxiety and stress and it seeps and everything else you do. But then there's these other opportunities that somebody else outside of that individual may not never identify that, what? This student, this whomever, is missing out on opportunities that they could be accessing because they're procrastinating past the point of it just evaporating. They're not developing the skills to kind of go ahead and address it. I'm wondering what you think about that or, how [00:11:00] you would Leslie Josel: I was trying to under, I'm trying to understand what you're saying because how we kind of look at it sometimes is in, is in two different directions, right? You asked the question at the very beginning about like, why, , why has procrast, like, why does everybody procrastinate? So again, procrastination isn't one size fits all, and there's definitely a scale of like, One being occasionally, maybe 10 being all the time, but procrastination gets worse as a student gets older. So, when you're younger, and I don't know if I'm answering your question, but as you get, as you're younger, there's a lot of scaffolding. There's a ton of scaffolding, right? There's someone telling you that's your, , your vocab tests, , your vocab questions are due on Monday, or even as you get older, even in high school, there's that rubric of your topic is due Monday, your five sources are due Wednesday, whatever that is. And as you move on and even into like college and beyond, that scaffolding, that support, that's someone else giving you that roadmap to follow, kind of goes away and you're left on your own [00:12:00] to. Internalize time, have future awareness, have your working memory on, going on all synapses. But there's that other piece that I think you're saying where there are things we want to do that aren't, there are no deadlines for. There are no assignments for. So that lack of structure, that lack of like seeing the future and someone body doubling you and laying it out for you and being there for you to kind of help move you through that process. That's actually where we see as, I think that's what you were saying, more procrastination. Even in college where we see kids, Put it off till the deadline. Eventually they come around because there is somebody going, right, you gotta get it in. It's due tomorrow, the finals tomorrow, or the paper is due. There's still something definitive and defining. Whereas a kid that's like, well, I wanna apply for summer internships. If there's no process, there's no roadmap. [00:13:00] That's where we see kids really fall apart. And that's actually where. Maybe, I mean, I'm talking about college students, but that's where coaches come in. That's where even a parent can come in if you have that relationship with your child, is really how can we set you up so we help you see a roadmap. I always say this, the power of done is really powerful. You need to see the end. I mean, you ask, but I always say this with my students, the power of done. And they go, Les, we get that. Like I've gotta see the end. To be able to start and we assume that most kids just, okay, let's go. Just get going. But where are they going? Right, what are the road? So I think that's what you were saying. So that's kind of the, believe it or not, that's actually a lot of the work that we do is providing roadmaps, is breaking it down, is scaffolding those steps. Cuz like anything, it's a muscle and they've got to build it up to then be able to eventually [00:14:00] try to do that on their own. Ross Romano: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it struck me that like so much of, dealing with, Procrastination is about learning to be proactive, right? And, and taking control of your circumstances rather than letting them control you and how stressful that is. And what I'm thinking about in this case is that difference between, okay, a school assignment where it's due on X date and we have a student who's turning in their assignments late repeatedly. Right now, somebody else, their teacher. Right? Or their parent can observe that and say, what? We need an intervention here because this is clearly a, a, a pattern. But there might be other things. It might be, , a college student who decides who I really would like to. Run for student body president and okay, I'll get in my, I'll put in my materials, , I'll do it soon, I'll do it later. And then they just never do. And nobody else knows that other than them, right? So they have to have [00:15:00] either develop those skills ahead of time or at least have the awareness to be able to self-report and say, what? I'm not. Pursuing opportunities that I wanna pursue because I'm not managing my time or I'm not going for them. Or a young professional who is in a job, they're not really happy with their job, right? They want another one Leslie Josel: a hundred. Ross Romano: and they say, oh, I'll apply to that later. And then they either apply and it's too late. Then there's some consequence avoidance to it too. Right? Well, I, I don't wanna be told no. So if I apply after the deadline, then I'm not Leslie Josel: This is my day. You just, you literally just, I just Sophomore college students and every single one of them. And, but here's what I think you're missing, and I don't mean that negatively. it's not just about time at all. Like I feel that way. And interestingly, if we look at the research, so I always say this about the book. There's research. Research, right? And then there's Leslie Research. What I mean by Leslie Research is 19 years in the field, you kind of start picking up things. but there's research. Research. That was about time. I feel like, [00:16:00] particularly now. Especially now. And interestingly, the book was written right before the pandemic. And if I was to write it again, I would write parts of it differently because we just experienced and to some degree we haven't even, I. Seen the repercussions of what happened in the last several years, particularly with this age and age that we're talking about. Right. But prior to the pandemic or prior when you, so to understand what I don't just coach students. I have several coaches who work for me, but I have a massive online community and I give webinars. Monthly for this community and they tell us the topics that they want cuz and in years past it was, , I wanna learn more about time or study skills. Things that were very like executive functioning, like driven. In the last few years it's been all about overwhelm. All about overwhelm. And I think what I read in my book, meaning when I [00:17:00] hear back from these kids, Is that, that's a lot of the driving force. Like when a kid can't get started on a project that's big and vast. It's because exactly that. It's not task driven. If you have a student that has real executive dysfunction, not A D H D, we're talking about executive functions here. That whole perception of lazy. We say this all the time where a student comes to the table and says, my parents think I'm lazy. My teachers think I'm lazy. And I go back cuz I'm pro kid and go. You go back and you tell that whoever told you that you have a hard time sustaining effort. You have a hard time putting out that effort. If you have a student who has to figure a lot of stuff out. They're just not going to, it's too much for their brain. So if you have a student that there was a rubric involved or there was a project involved, or there was even steps to a chore involved or responsibility, [00:18:00] it's task driven. There's no vagueness to it. They know exactly what is being asked of them. But if I have to sit down and try to figure out how to apply for student body president and what comes first and what comes next, and when I have to do that, it's not as linear as time. It's very emotional, very overwhelming to the brain, and the brain is just going to shut itself down because it can't figure it out. It goes back to what I said in the beginning. Do I take the consequence? Or do I actually try to figure out what it is I have to do, and for most kids shutting down is way easier. Ross Romano: Right. Yeah. And I mean, at the risk of oversimplifying, I, I Leslie Josel: I know I'm not trying to Ross Romano: management is the what, but it's not Leslie Josel: right? Ross Romano: It's not, it's the end result of either good or poor time management is why are we good at this? Or why are we struggling? Even for people who think they're really. Good at time management. I would ask them, why are you good? Because it's because you've, you [00:19:00] are motivated, you've found purpose, you have eliminated some overwhelm. You've done all these things. But yeah, what are, , if you can speak to some of those factors, those whys that say, okay. Yes. We all know that time management is important because time is just limited for all of us. We only have so much of it. We have a lot of things we want to do or need to do, and if we're going to get it all done, we need to be become good at it. But there's all those barriers in between. Leslie Josel: We have to be emotionally ready to do the things that are hard. So we know this about procrastination and I think this is really fascinating. I. What happens a lot is like, and I want you all to picture cuz I know you can't see me. So if you're, driving down a road and you come to a fork in the road, right? So if you go to the right, make a right term, that's where happy pretty lives. This is hat, remember parent led language, student led language. I'm very casual in my speak, but you gotta remember this is how they get it return, right? That's where happy, pretty lives for [00:20:00] some people. That's Netflix, Instagram, TikTok, nordstrom.com. Whatever your happy print is, right? Whatever fills you up and makes you feel good. If you went left, that's the dark and twisty, right? That's where the stuff you really, really, really don't wanna do lives, right? It could be homework and even for adults, it could be whatever it is you don't wanna do. I don't wanna do housekeeping. I don't wanna clean out the garage. I don't wanna pay bills or, I don't wanna do my, paper. I don't wanna study for that final. It's too hard. That's the left. That's the dark and twisty, and what we say to ourselves is, I need to feel good. I need to fill myself up first with feeling good. And my kids say this to me all the time. I've gotta, I have to do something first that makes me feel good before I, I've gotta make that right turn before I go to the left, right? And I do it, I mean, I [00:21:00] write a weekly column. I don't know if this for Attitude Magazine. I write their Dear ADHD Family Coach column weekly, and. To write on demand is hard. So even I'll say, lemme take 10 minutes to check my, Instagram before I sit down and start to write. Cuz I wanna, it's that dopamine hit. I wanna, I gotta feel good. But here's what happens to our kids whose brains are not maybe as fully matured. One Netflix show turns into 10, right? Five minutes on Instagram turns into an hour. And what ends up happening is they now feel worse about themselves. Because not only do they waste that time, but now they're staring down the wrath of maybe, oh my God, I didn't get it done. I didn't finish, I didn't start, and we never get to that. And I think that's really important of like. How do we, and I'm still learning this myself, trust me, if I had the answer, I would not be in front of you right now, but I'm, but I feel like it's even important [00:22:00] enough to know where that demarcation line is of turning right and turning left. And how can we get our kids to not turn right all the time, but to be able to have the strength and the brain muscle and the power to just say, I can handle left, did that make sense? Ross Romano: Yeah, it does. Leslie Josel: And I find that a lot of my students, just even knowing that has helped them not go, just identifying it and being able to say, all right, I'm at that fork right now, and we do a lot of this thing called future travel. I'm at the, I'm at that fork right now. How am I going to feel about myself if I turn right, or how am I gonna feel about myself if I turn left? Ross Romano: Yeah. Leslie Josel: And get it done. And I know that's, but again, that's playing on the emotionality of it and not on the like, technical miss of it. I hope that made sense and that's really powerful. Ross Romano: Yeah. Yeah, and I, I think it also very [00:23:00] closely relates to, asset based versus deficit based language and focusing on what's the good thing that will happen when I do this versus what's the bad thing that's going to happen if I don't do it? And it's a lot more motivating Leslie Josel: A lot more motivating, right? So while we're sitting and building skill, whether it's a coach or a parent or teacher, building that brain muscle, right? Helping them strengthen their working memory, helping them strengthen to be less overwhelmed, helping them strengthen their. Time management, making them less time blind or more time aware or sh improving future awareness. All of those executive functions that give them that, the skill. We're also working on the emotional piece too, in tandem. And interestingly, I found this too in the book that a lot of the emotional comes easier for some than the skill, (ad here 23:51.00) Ross Romano: So Leslie, I wanted to spend, a little time touching on something that we haven't explicitly, mentioned in the, course of the interview, although I talked about it in my intro, which is,[00:24:00] A D H D. And so you started your company order out of chaos when your son was five and he was newly diagnosed at A D H D and. So over a ,couple of decades of doing that work, what are some of the misconceptions that still exist around A D H D? We talked before we started recording, and I think there's a lot better understanding and a lot more awareness now than then, Leslie Josel: but I. Ross Romano: there's still some ground to cover. Leslie Josel: There is still so much ground to cover. Listen, we've come a long way. My son was diagnosed in 2004. I started my company. I want you all to remember back in 2004, the internet even wasn't. There were no podcasts and all that stuff. I think the biggest. Thing that is still out there is that A D H D is still thought of as hyperactivity or lack of focusing, and it is, could not be further from the truth. So a few, I call them fun facts so that they're digestible. To truly understand A D H D is to know [00:25:00] that it has, it is not a focusing disorder, nor is it a hyperactivity disorder. We know that those in our world that have A D H D can focus sometimes too much, sometimes not on the right things, sometimes not for the right amount of time. ADHD is all about self-regulation. Or some of it is, it's being able to do what we need, when we need to do it with the right cadence, the right amount of energy, the right amount of focus, all of those things. Some even say it's lagging executive functioning skills. So what I love about talking about ADHD is I don't talk a lot about ADHD I really, really spend my time talking about executive functioning because for two reasons. Number one. Anybody out there who has been diagnosed with ADHD will automatically have executive dysfunction. They go hand in hand. There is no if, ands, or buts about it, [00:26:00] okay? They go hand in hand, which is why ADHD is lagging executive functions. However, the reverse is not true, and I think that is like the big aha moment. Meaning you could have a student in your classroom who has executive dysfunction and they do not have ADHD and that, and when I present to teachers or on schools, they go, really? That's a big one. The other thing about executive functions is they're granular. I always say this, they tell your students. Story. I always say A D H. D is like that 36,000 level view. Executive functioning is like boots on the ground, right? Like you are in the trenches. Like our executive functions are organizing time management, effort level, fo focus, working memory, remembering to remember impulsivity, mood regulation, right? We never talk about that mood regulation. It's all. If I was [00:27:00] to drill it down or the way I teach it to students, parents, and teachers, as I call it, purposeful actions. Ross Romano: Yeah. Leslie Josel: a really good visual way to, kind of see it, so I. I know that was a long-winded way of discussing A D H D, but I, I feel like that is the biggest, misnomer out there is that we're still talking about it as hyperactivity or focusing, and it's not, it's all about self-regulation. It's all about purposeful actions. Ross Romano: Yeah. Yeah. And from your p o v, cuz certainly you work a lot with students and parents and educators, so you're kind of seeing it from all those different angles of what those relationship dynamics are and, how everybody can try to best support students, help students learn how to support themselves. Is there anything that, that stands out to you as, looking at it from all those angles as what you would say is [00:28:00] or is not the reasonable or realistic role to expect, educators to be playing in the role of supporting students at a h d and what their expertise should be versus what parents, , really are responsible for our students themselves to say, look, there are certain things that each learner needs to really, especially as we're getting into our teenage years and beyond, , take responsibility for, but everybody has kind of different roles in that dynamic. Leslie Josel: Well, I think that there's a lot to say there. There's a ton to say there. I think the biggest thing that, everyone needs to be aware of is that there is something called executive age. So again, I see this all the time where a parent will come and say, my child has been diagnosed with executive dysfunction. And a teacher will even say, I have a kid in my class with A D H D or executive function. And I'll come back and say, well, do you understand what executive age means? And they're like, I've never heard that before. And what that means very quickly is that if you have a 13 year old at home or in your class and they're 13 and all, they're 13 this, right? They might be 13 verbally, academically, [00:29:00] athletically, but if they have any kind of executive dysfunction, all the ones I mentioned. They will be 30% less their chronological age and that dysfunction, or not challenge, I like that word better. So you might be staring at a 13 year old who's as bright as can be and all of that, but in time management they will be nine. And how you're gonna scaffold that nine year old and how you're gonna support that nine year old. But more importantly, what you're going to expect from that nine year old is very different. And I think we have to start at that base. The other thing, and I know I'm giving you the 36. Thousand level view because there's so much granular here is we all know what universal design is, right? Universal design is they curb cuts or close caption that was done for specific population to make their lives easier to manage day-to-day. But what we found is that those designs benefited everybody. It's the same thing with what we call universal learning. And I think [00:30:00] that's the, switch here. We are working with students who, maybe this is how they say it, who might learn differently or think differently or process information differently and coming up with things for them. But really what we're coming up for benefits everyone. Things like externalizing time. Hanging analog clocks, right? Making things specific routines, rituals, making things visual and visible. Right? Memory exercises, like linking the known to the unknown. So students have a way to super glue information to their head doing experiential experiences when it comes to teaching. So kids have different ways to learn information, not just verbally. I mean, I could go on and on and on. Double desks in a room. So if a kid needs to fidget to focus, they can get up and move somewhere. So we keep them in the classroom and not send them out for 20 minutes. So they miss instruction. All of these benefit [00:31:00] every student. So I'm working, we're working, schools are working to reverse that old tape where, what are we doing in here that benefits everybody. that's what we're seeing and that's the conversation that we're seeing more and more of. And I will say that a lot of that I think did come out of the pandemic. So like one of my favorite things is that we have so many kids who understand material so well, but aren't very good test takers for whatever reason. So what we're seeing now is teachers giving expression of choice. Don't take the test, make me a mock website. Right, right. Draw me a graphic novel. Anything else that shows me your command and the information. Do it in a way that makes sense to you. Let me give you choice and control. I love that. Right? Again, hits every single point. So we are seeing a lot of that change and we're seeing that fluidity at home and at school.[00:32:00] Ross Romano: Yeah. Excellent. So Leslie, we're gonna transition into a rapid round here. I have about a handful of questions here that are designed for a quick response and we'll get to cover a lot of ground here. So let me start out with this. What do you know now that you wish you knew 20 years ago? Leslie Josel: Not to be as afraid. I know now is I'm not to be afraid. Ross Romano: Perfect. Is there a student, and this could be one of the students that's in the book or not, but whose story turned out even better than you expected, and if so, why? What were the reasons why that happened? Leslie Josel: Spotty is the student that wrote, could not get him to write his homework down, anything like that. He wrote on, a roll of paper towels for an entire year. He walked around his junior year of high school with a roll of paper towels in his backpack. Cause that's what worked for him. And he went on to write in a planner use. Digital calendars. He's now graduated and is one of like, I don't need to tell you his story, but what I love about him is that I did [00:33:00] exactly what he needed. I gave him choice and control and he just took it from there. Ross Romano: Yeah. When there is someone of any age really, who is unable to overcome their procrastination, what are the reasons why that typically would happen? Leslie Josel: This is a lightning round question. not a lightning round question. The student that I, that comes to mind, the one that I'm having a very difficult time with, I think there's a lot of, to be blunt, there's a lot of anxiety getting in the way. Ross Romano: What do you wish schools would change about homework? Leslie Josel: I'd like to say I wish there wasn't any. Ross Romano: Mm-hmm. Leslie Josel: I want it to be f because they do it. At the end of the day, I want it to be something fun and experiential, Ross Romano: okay. And you can say you wish there wasn't Emmy. Cuz I think we have a Leslie Josel: there wasn't any. Ross Romano: who agree and, and some who Leslie Josel: wasn't any. Ross Romano: Gotten rid of it. So, and I know that part of the book is of course teaching, students how to, navigate their homework. But all, the reality is perhaps. Perhaps, there's changes that could be made outside of that.[00:34:00] Are there three quick time management tips for our adult listeners that you would recommend? They try out? Leslie Josel: Oh, for themselves or for their Ross Romano: Yeah. For them, for Leslie Josel: Well, for everybody. Ross Romano: they, they might apply to anyone. Leslie Josel: Okay, so here's my thing, you need to externalize time to internalize it. So any way you can make time visible, it's going to be your best friend. So analog clocks are back, baby analogs in every room you spend time in. Every room your children spend time in, including the bathroom, especially the bathroom. And if you have a teen at home, there should be one in the shower too. We'll leave that one there. Okay. Sorry. I'm very, unless they can see it from the shower, you need to map time. This is for my younger parents who like to put on calendars five 30 soccer. That does not teach time. What you need to be doing is mapping time. Five o'clock change clothes, five 15 out the door, five 30 soccer. If you want your children to see time, they need to be [00:35:00] able children to be able to manage time. You too. You need to be able to see it. So just giving me one time does not work. That's number two. Number three is, again, this is for my, I guess for families you might say, is, you gotta level the playing field. You're always, you might have a kid at home that doesn't need your help with time and one that does bring everybody to the table once a week, planners, digitals open. You need to know what I'm doing for me to know what you are doing. Make it a level playing field, and I guarantee you will get buy-in from your child. Ross Romano: Excellent. Are there two. Either books or it could be an expert, not specifically their book, that you would also recommend to our listeners. It can be about these topics or it can be about anything else that you think is valuable. Leslie Josel: yes. So I am not a bit, so it's funny, I read a lot and I don't love everything I read. I love the book, it's called and I'm, sorry, you can't see me. I have it on my shelf here. One is called Getting ahead of A D H D by Dr. [00:36:00] Nig. And what I love about his book is it's, it really takes you from developmental up in a way that shows that your environment, what you eat, your sleep, everything that you actually can control, can really, really, really supercharged and help the brain. And then my other book, and I'm really hoping that this resonates with your, Parents out there is called Shut up About Your Perfect Child. It is one of my absolute favorite read. I forgot who wrote it, I'm sorry, but you can Google it. It's called Shut Up About Your Perfect Children because Don't we all wanna say that from time to time. Ross Romano: Great. Perfect. So we're exiting the rapid round here. But I do have another question that I wanted to end this. It's really about, , the dialogue between parents and kids and it's even how you contextualize the book, right? The book, which is written for the students, but with the hopes that the adults will read it and then hopefully it leads to a way, a common language. We're [00:37:00] talking about these things and at the end of the book, you have these 10 questions. They're sort of reflection questions or questions for the students to ask themselves, right? When they're stuck in their procrastination cycle and. They're, challenging themselves to say, okay, let me go back to my habits and skills. What is my plan? , what am I trying to accomplish? Those types of things. And what I wanted to ask around this is, , are there some questions, either those particular questions or questions in that regard that you think are especially good ones for a parent or, , or it could be an educator, but a parent to pose to the. Kids when they know that they're struggling with this and how to do it in a way that's, , open, inviting, productive, and not accusatory, putting them on the defensive. And saying, look, I, want to help you here, but I you're not, I'm not telling you to defend yourself. I'm, I'm trying to help you kind of get back into your routines. Leslie Josel: a lot of the questions that are in the back of the book are [00:38:00] actually questions parents can ask their students. They're not punitive. So my favorite question of all time is, what is your plan? Because what is your plan can be asked as what is your plan? It can be asked to an eight-year-old, it could be asked to an 18 year old, and it can be added onto what is, and it can be asked. And I have teachers who tell me, I ask that question all the time. When a kid walks in the room, what is your plan right now? What is your plan to get yourself out of a classroom, but for a parent, it could be to a young kid. What is your plan after dinner for an older student? It could be, you can say, Hey, I noticed you have two tests on Friday and you don't get home till play practice till 10 o'clock at night, Thursday. What's your plan to prepare for those exams? You want your children to do the heavy lifting. At least start to remember I said about exercising the brain. If we keep constantly telling our kids what to do, when to do it, how to do it, the only brain that's getting exercise is ours. So I know a lot of you are gonna come [00:39:00] after me and go, what happens if my kid says, I don't know. First of all, it takes time to get your kid to a place that they can actually answer these questions, but you have to remember, they're not punitive. You're being like, Hmm. So what is your plan? But here's my response. You gotta remember I'm a coach. When a kid comes to me and says, I don't know, I respond back with a question, can you tell me what you do know? And I told you this, I speak all over schools and if, I've ever heard that, the one thing that I have taught teachers is they said that was it. That when a kid comes to them and says, I don't understand, or I don't. They come back and say, can you tell me what you do understand? Can you tell me what you do know to be true? Can you tell me what you learned? It's very empowering, so that would probably be my best question back is can you tell me what you do and [00:40:00] then whatever comes after that. Ross Romano: Perfect. Leslie, we're gonna put the information for where to find your book in your website and things in the show notes below. But is there anything else you're working on currently or anywhere else, you'd like our listeners to check out? Leslie Josel: Yes. So we are very busy. We do a lot of things. So the couple of things is, I would love everyone at this topic, really, an ADHD and executive functioning is something that interests you. Attitude Magazine, which is ADD-itude is the leading magazine for both adults and children. They balance it well. The digital version is free, and I write a weekly column I have for the last five years called Dear A D H D Family Coach. I bring ace to people's cues. It's like the Dear Abbey of the A D H D world. And it comes out every Tuesday. So I invite you to subscribe to the digital version, great resource, and it's free. Please come to our website. We do monthly webinars for our [00:41:00] community, so that's an ongoing thing. We also have a parent education library filled with so much information, it'll make your head spin. And we are about to enter into our 11th year of, back to school with our planners and planner accessories. And so we're super excited and we are. Right in the throws right now, back to school. So it's busy, busy, busy, busy. And I'm working on a fourth book, but I'm not gonna tell you what that's about yet. Ross Romano: Excellent. Well, you have to come back and talk about it. That's out. Listeners, if you have students or, or kids that, have a d d or a d h ADHD or struggle with time management, so that's all of you. These are great Leslie Josel: All of you. Ross Romano: out. So we will put the link below to Leslie's website. And to where you can find the book. You can get it on our website, you can get it on Amazon. It's how to do it now because it's not going away. And yeah, please do stick with us here. Subscribe to the Authority for more in-depth author interviews like this one, or visit b podcast.network to learn about all of our shows. Leslie Joselle, [00:42:00] thanks so much for coming on the Authority. Leslie Josel: This was fabulous. Thanks for having me.