Latest / The STA Clinician Podcast / Ep240 'Evidence Informed Pilates' - Reflection with Chareeya Kaewsawang, The Wee Physio

Transcript

Ep240 'Evidence Informed Pilates' - Reflection with Chareeya Kaewsawang, The Wee Physio · The STA Clinician Podcast

0:00
Music.
0:12
People. How are you doing? Welcome to episode 240 of the Sports Therapy Association podcast.
0:18
My name is Matt Phillips, creator of runchatlive.com. And as always,
0:22
this episode is being recorded live at eight o'clock on a Tuesday on the Sports
0:26
Therapy Association YouTube channel.
0:29
So we've reached the sixth episode now of our new reflection series on the Sports
0:35
Therapy Association podcast,
0:36
in which I invite a listener of the podcast onto the show to chat with me about
0:40
a past episode of the STA podcast that particularly affected their daily practice
0:44
as a soft tissue therapist.
0:47
Last week, my guests, massage and movement therapist Stevie Barr of Fit Through
0:52
Life and Tristan Attenborough of Move Massage Pro, reflected on episode 74 of
0:57
the Sports Therapy Association podcast,
0:59
which was entitled Massage 2021, The Year of Change, recorded back in October
1:03
2021 with guests Anna-Marie Matsieri and Matt Skarsberg of the Massage Collective.
1:08
So I must give great thanks to Stevie Barr and Trish Attenborough for providing
1:12
some really great, fantastic reflection on the industry.
1:15
And they really did highlight in great ways how we have evolved as an industry
1:20
in some ways, but also kind of suggested there's still a lot of change that
1:24
needs to happen in order for massage and soft tissue therapy to sit well within modern healthcare.
1:30
So that episode is available as always on all popular podcast apps and also
1:34
YouTube if you want to watch the video.
1:37
Right, speaking of change, have you seen the recent announcement across social media?
1:43
The STA, in collaboration with the ST School and Hands-On Hub,
1:47
are bringing a brand new style of CPD conference designed to kickstart the future
1:52
of healthcare education.
1:54
Really excited to be involved in this. And the inaugural event is going to be
1:59
happening in Exmouth this September,
2:01
given that it's the STA Southwest Conference this time, on September the 20th
2:05
and 21st, which I'm thrilled to say is a Saturday and a Sunday,
2:10
which I'm sure you'll be pleased to hear.
2:11
And there's also going to be a social on the Saturday night.
2:14
So it's going to be amazing. And I will be the master of ceremonies across the two days.
2:18
So I'm really looking forward to seeing many of you there.
2:22
It is, the idea is a regional event. So don't worry if you're not in the southwest
2:26
of the UK, plans are to hold this new type of conference all around the country
2:30
so that you no longer need to travel miles to get that all-important CPD in.
2:35
The STA is still going to have a stand at Therapy Expo in November this year.
2:40
So if you're going to Therapy Expo in November, then do come and say hi.
2:44
But we will no longer be putting on the STA theatre, just as the ST school will
2:49
no longer be running their hands on Hub, because instead, we're collaborating
2:53
to bring the CPD to your part of the country during the year.
2:57
And it starts this September the 20th and 21st in Exmouth.
3:02
Details of speakers presentations workshops and
3:05
the unique focus on networking which we're very proud of
3:08
will be released over the next few days so do
3:11
be sure to follow at uk underscore sta and
3:15
at the st school on social media for details and as always if you've got any
3:19
questions at all feel free to email me matt at the sta.co.uk right then back
3:28
to tonight's show episode 240 what are we were reflecting about?
3:33
Well, in a nutshell, Pilates.
3:35
Back in October 2021, in episode 73 of the Sports Therapy Association podcast,
3:40
I was joined by special guest, Raphael Bender of Breathe Education and the Pilates
3:45
Elephants podcast for an episode entitled Evidence-Informed Pilates.
3:51
It was a hugely popular episode, still available on YouTube and all popular podcast apps.
3:55
So here tonight, three years later, to reflect on that episode is Sharia Keusawang,
4:02
we'll check out my pronunciations in a second, also known as the wee physio.
4:06
So without any further ado, let's bring up Sharia.
4:09
Music.
4:22
Good how are you i'm okay you can give my pronunciation now
4:25
mark out of 10 totally up to you i don't want to sway you 10 out
4:28
of 10 definitely check that out thank you well done well
4:31
done we do like making an effort here so really nice to see you again and an
4:37
extra doubly nice because you're setting a new record tonight because you are
4:40
actually joining us i didn't realize until a few moments ago at what time is
4:44
it is actually 2 a.m in the morning in thailand,
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i love it we could now say we've had a guest join us
4:53
at two in the morning you're setting a new record that's brilliant thank you so
4:56
much don't don't worry everybody i already have siesta so why are we now that's
5:01
a good power nap that's so kind of you i really didn't realize when you offered
5:05
to to be on the show reflecting on that episode i thought you were still in
5:09
glasgow i didn't realize that you were you were up for joining me at two o'clock
5:13
in the morning So yeah, double thank you.
5:16
And also thank you for having me as well. I'm really excited to be on this show as well.
5:21
Thank you. No, I'm really thrilled to see you again because you were with us
5:25
back in December last year.
5:27
And for people who are listeners aren't aware, in episode 221,
5:30
you were here as part of a panel of clinicians reflecting on Therapy Expo 2024 at the NEC Birmingham.
5:35
And it was a great episode. I mean, everything you and the other panel gave.
5:39
And in fact, that episode was one
5:42
of the few episodes which made me take on this kind of
5:45
reflecting series of podcast we're doing now because
5:48
people just love hearing from clinicians themselves so you
5:51
are responsible for like everything we're doing now so thank you
5:54
for that yeah you're very welcome thank you so
5:57
much as well it's kind of like i'm so sorry i
6:00
might haven't speak english like for a
6:03
while and listen to english as well
6:05
because obviously i'm in thailand and yeah i'm
6:09
just a little bit panicked here i'm just a little a bit panic here don't
6:13
worry there's no problem do you're doing absolutely great right so people have joined
6:16
us live just a quick shout out for you we love people who join us
6:19
live guy benson founder the stas in the house who was actually here back
6:22
in episode 71 that we're talking about
6:25
i had a look at the people who are joining us which was like over yeah three
6:29
years ago in episode 73 sorry so so in three
6:31
his flop has joined us as well hey cecily thank
6:34
you very much nikki mansfield is here as well who says
6:37
here we go here we go here we go wonderful sort
6:41
of crowd we've got in here uh sir glenn murphy is
6:44
here saying hello to fellow sports therapist sarah jones
6:47
who is also back with us for the original episode with rath has joined us again
6:52
so we've got some long-standing people coming here louise asher is here that's
6:56
probably the first time i've said her surname correctly stevie bar is stepped
7:00
in as well thank you very much coming in from last week stevie is here as well.
7:06
Yeah, thanks, Stevie. Charlie Patrick, thanks for joining us, Charlie.
7:10
And Nikki Mansfield, who says, oof, you wouldn't get that kind of commitment
7:14
from me, Matt. What, two in the morning? Two in the morning.
7:19
I don't think many people would do two in the morning. Right,
7:21
so thanks, people, joining us live.
7:22
Really appreciate it. And do feel free, as always, to ask us questions,
7:25
because it's a great topic tonight, Pilates.
7:28
So maybe we should start then, if it's okay, with you, Sharia.
7:32
Yeah, tell us a little bit about your background, particularly about your And
7:36
also why out of all 235 episodes, you decided to choose this particular episode?
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So, right. Obviously, I'm a physio, physiotherapist and also a Pilates instructor.
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I got qualified as a Pilates last year. So Pilates also are new things for me as well.
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Besides being a physio, I've been a physio for like six, seven years after I graduate.
8:00
So um so my
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question is like why i'm in thailand in
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uk so basically i graduated as a bachelor physiotherapy
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in thailand okay and then i got i
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got a chance to do a master degree in
8:15
glasgow universities in sports and exercise medicines
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and then once i graduate and also
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i have a chance or opportunity to work in in
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the uk as a cazil and pilates an
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area that i'll start to want to explore most whereas
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i work a lot with elderly peoples and i
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want what what i thought at times is i
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want to have more um weapons as exercises
8:41
in my library and i think pilates also
8:44
you know a good start points for help
8:47
people start to move as well in different way and yeah that's where my pilates
8:51
journey starts and probably just right now until right now is probably a year
8:56
so my experience or you know area about Pilates is maybe not that long but the
9:03
reason I started to pick I mean I'm.
9:07
I decided to pick this episode, which is 73, is when I listen to it,
9:12
I feel like it sparked the idea that I have or the questions I have in the past.
9:16
And I started to digging in more into like, okay, what are things, what are questions?
9:22
And it actually a really amazing episode from Raphael's as well.
9:25
So the reason that why I picked this up, I'm going to go over like each point why this is,
9:32
help me to share my thoughts about what I'm going to do and what I can help
9:37
people's, how could I help my clients in the future as well.
9:42
Fantastic. Great to hear. And it's really interesting because,
9:45
I mean, Rafa spent a lot of the episode kind of bringing up a lot of the misinformation
9:51
and myths which exist around Pilates.
9:54
And he kind of said that 10 years ago, if he'd started saying the things he
9:59
was saying, then he would have been crucified.
10:01
But he kind of feels that now therapists are a little bit more open to hearing
10:07
the kind of ways which we need to tweak some of the mechanisms of action, that sort of stuff.
10:11
But I'm interested, when you listened to that episode, so you hadn't done Pilates for that long?
10:17
Yes, my experience was a year. Did you find that what you'd been taught on what
10:22
was, in theory, a fairly modern course.
10:25
Had a lot of those kind of misconceptions in there? Are you surprised by some of the things you said?
10:31
So I would say my course that I did is definitely say, like,
10:36
drawing your belly button toward the spines, tuck your tummy in.
10:39
It's more focused definitely on core activation and also more.
10:45
You know, most of the physio have to read Paul Hodges' paper definitely about
10:51
the, you know, activation of TRAs and everything.
10:55
And also, once I graduate, when I've done the courses and I listen to his episode,
11:01
it actually, okay, right, do we need this?
11:03
Because actually, there are loads of core exercises and core activation is different.
11:12
So, of course, strengthening exercises from my point of view,
11:15
it can be anything. It doesn't have to be muscle, one muscle isolator's contractions.
11:19
So, it's actually give me more of an idea and I also have the questions why
11:23
I'm learning it, but I never ask.
11:25
But when I started to bring it, and then I have an idea, and it was just like,
11:30
right, okay, kind of like start to have questions when I put it to practice.
11:36
So that's an interesting thing. So I'm just going to check then.
11:39
So did you say that as a physio, you'd studied the Paul Hodges paper.
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With that, we're talking about the 1996 paper.
11:49
Yes, that one. Which is basically talking about inefficient muscular stabilization
11:53
of the lumbar spine associated with lower back pain. where him and Carolyn Richardson,
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whose name we should also mention.
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I like saying Carolyn Richardson because I just think it's an example of kind of the patriarchy.
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We all know it's the Hodges paper, but in fact, the second author is a woman,
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but she doesn't get a mention.
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I'm going to say it's the Paul Hodges and Carolyn Richardson paper.
12:12
No, it's not. I wasn't having a
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go at you. I just think it just happens in society. It just gets dropped.
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But yeah, so people who aren't aware, I just want to...
12:23
Details of that study was and what they suggested? To be honest,
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I didn't go deep down that much.
12:30
So what I normally want to say is this is the idea that I've been taught when
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I was a student in a bachelor in physio on my third and fourth years.
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So actually, we actually have in Thailand, I learned as a physio in Thailand.
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So that is already a tale about core
12:48
activations because that idea is very big and
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also I'm not sure what happened in the UK but it's
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quite big and also in Thailand so there's I'm
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the person who also treat people by
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when they come to see come to see me
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with back pains I was just like okay let's try some like
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core stability exercises okay and
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also that's persons as well in the past so I
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use that too and I start to see no it doesn't work that
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much we don't see any progress regarding to
13:20
like working on these exercises so how how we
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should do and then once the research came out more is
13:26
that actually it doesn't you know do the core
13:29
stabilities exercises doesn't you know
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provide significance comparing to general exercises
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so what you mean i was like okay we just need
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to go by the research still let the lizard guide.
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Us in the future and you know open for the change because
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i'm also the person who spent 15 minutes in sessions when
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once I graduate or undergrads teaching people
13:51
core activation feel your tummies like
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that as well and I feel like I also I mean
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what I will say is I Raphael episodes
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he tried to talk about the
14:05
era of Pilates since like Joseph and
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I think Romana and then Frank and
14:12
then when the turning point has come to where um
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podges published the papers so same
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with me i as also you can see what gonna
14:22
you know the the journeys of pilates as well.
14:25
Same as my journey i also you know
14:27
learned along with them i think this is also right to my clients to my patient
14:33
and i think okay this is good i'm gonna help them and then once the time passed
14:38
by okay the lizard guy has a different way so that why i'm quite interested
14:43
when it the topic is like evidence-informed pilates,
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because it actually kind of like hooked me at the first like
14:50
hit me home because it's like i mean i've strived
14:54
to bait my pilates teachings on both science and experience and i want to you
14:57
know like try to help my clients as much as i could so yeah that's pretty much
15:03
an idea that kind of like why did why i shoot this topics sorry for the long
15:07
answer no no it's interesting to hear your experience and it's really interesting to hear that.
15:12
I wonder how worldwide this is, but the Pilates course you were taught was still
15:17
talking about co-activation, even though we, science has kind of moved on.
15:23
I was just going to say before people, I mean, if anyone's listening here who's
15:27
still doing co-activation exercises, first of all, don't go away.
15:30
Don't get too scared. We're not going to throw everything out at all.
15:33
All we're talking about is giving you an idea that all of that co-activation stuff,
15:38
and i used to do it in 2000 i'd have people doing kind of
15:41
core activation exercises before they did the strength exercises even
15:44
rugby players and american football football players everyone was doing it people
15:48
doing squats and footballs and bench press on footballs it was all about based
15:51
on this research um where basically he was with a bunch of students and they
15:55
noticed with kind of looking at muscle activation that people with lower back
16:01
pain his students just a bunch of students.
16:03
When they moved their shoulder, the ones without lower back pain,
16:07
they had a contraction of the transverse abdominus and the multifudus before the deltoid.
16:13
But then those who didn't have back pain, I'm sorry, those who did have back
16:18
pain, it didn't happen. They didn't see this pre-contraction.
16:21
So they kind of suggested that maybe that this could be linked with back pain.
16:26
Later on in about 2006 or
16:30
something they realized that this was all not correct that
16:33
it's nothing to do with it but by then of
16:35
course pilates had grabbed onto that called themselves contemporary pilates
16:41
which was a bit strange as well and it stayed that way so it just amazes me
16:46
that you were still taught that a year ago yeah so as i it's also on our workbook
16:53
a little bit But the thing is,
16:55
they also mentioned about transversal abdominis as well, but they're not going
16:59
to highlight to say that, okay,
17:01
to do this, tuck your tummy in.
17:03
Some words they still use as a cue as well, but they're not going to,
17:08
you know, point out that, okay, right, you need to do this first.
17:13
Preactivation TRAs always, they're not saying that, okay? But the conception is still there, okay?
17:20
Because there is a page that explains about this. So I could say that's the
17:25
core stability concept is a thing that I get taught when I study.
17:32
And did you say you were taught that during physio study as well?
17:37
No. Oh, yes. Right. So back in when I was a physio student on my third and fourth
17:43
year, this also bring it to be, there are some one lectures as well to talk
17:47
about the core stability exercises.
17:51
So we actually like, okay, lies on your back, bend your knees,
17:54
bend your hip, place your hands on the hip bones, and then draw your belly button
17:59
into other spine, working on the breathings.
18:01
I was told that when I was a physio student, that's a fact.
18:05
I was just asking the audience how many of them have or maybe still do that
18:09
with clients as in getting defined neutral pelvis, which is supposed to be the
18:14
ideal place halfway in the middle, because that kind of links in very much with it.
18:18
The idea of a perfect symmetry and posture is very much linked to that paper.
18:23
And since then, that's been proved. So I just want to know whether people in
18:28
the audience used to do it, because this must be quite scary.
18:31
If there's a Pilates instructor listening to this and they're doing,
18:35
I don't know, three classes a day, five days a week, if they're teaching this
18:38
stuff, their first reaction is going to be, what are you saying?
18:42
And they're either going to be angry or sad and they're just going to, either one we do on one.
18:47
So what advice would you have to a Pilates instructor who's tuned in and they're
18:52
going, what do you mean that we don't need to do core activation exercises?
18:57
What do you mean we shouldn't be spending so much time finding symmetrical or
19:01
kind of neutral pelvis what advice would you have for them so okay
19:06
so before we before i answer those questions i'm
19:09
gonna bring it back a little bit okay so as i say this topic
19:12
is actually sparked me and i'm i'm i will
19:16
say i'm a humble physio that i want to just keep learnings and
19:19
keep you know going every like growth every day
19:22
so the thing is that why i
19:24
start to questions and when i listen to to
19:28
this topic as it's like okay this gonna lead
19:31
this help to actually this actually help
19:34
people who have misconceptions or you
19:37
know because evidence informed pilates what rafael says actually okay first
19:42
the best evidence so the client the person preference of perspective and also
19:48
our expertise combined so there's a definition of like notation difference like
19:54
definition of notation of evidence-based.
19:58
Practice and evidence-informed Pilates. I might not am a native speaker.
20:04
So I went back, I went to the Cambridge Dictionary to see, okay,
20:09
evidence-informed means.
20:10
So I would say evidence-informed as mean is like, it's not restricts,
20:14
it's just stricts from the rule book, but it's actually more like,
20:18
okay, we can get adapted, we can combine things.
20:21
This and those combined with our expertise to
20:24
actually guide our clients to to
20:28
the beds to the bed result or tailor the
20:31
exercise to that person to keep the result so to
20:34
answer those questions i already that person who
20:37
still who who already like okay
20:40
what the concept that has been taught is that wrong so
20:43
i should i what should i do about the you know free activations
20:47
and all the stuff that's our that's that why i
20:49
already answered and the first that less we we
20:52
already have married era we already have the turning point right so it's okay
20:57
to have some chain less the research guides us because that actually have something
21:02
supports to what we do so sometimes there's an idea i used to be the person
21:08
who used pre-activation because the thing that i was taught when i was
21:12
like third year fourth year physical students as
21:15
well we already say that okay upper cross syndrome
21:18
lower cross syndrome antidepressant tail
21:21
tight hip flexor and everything weak glutes
21:24
all of those things like antidepressant tail
21:28
is no not normal things when i was taught and also ones right now is we just
21:33
embrace the difference is all is also a normal distributions we don't we don't
21:39
work just ideal things right now that was i thought like i try to embrace the difference as well.
21:46
Yeah, so it doesn't have to be like same as flat feet would be tall in terms of physio.
21:51
People who have flat feet doesn't always show the problem. So we also consider that normal as well.
21:58
So same as pelvic two, neutral, possession, point your pelvic forward, point it back.
22:05
But if we think about the scoliosis and we want to improve the range of motion
22:10
or the amplitude, pelvic two is also a good exercise to use.
22:14
But not just say or blame the pelvic teal that
22:17
you have anterior pelvic teal you need to bring it
22:20
back not like that it's from my point of view if it's not
22:22
bringing you the issues pain or just like something that
22:25
it actually we need to look at as a bigger picture that's great
22:29
that's great advice so yeah so basically what i'm
22:32
hearing is you don't have to stop getting your
22:35
clients or patients to do the same exercises
22:39
as you've been doing with them but you mustn't or
22:42
it you should not kind of blame a
22:45
lack of position or certain position on
22:48
their pain because it's a bit more complicated than that you're not
22:51
striving for the perfect symmetry or the norm great
22:55
no really cool so i'm interested then what is if we take those things out of
23:02
the equation so we're not chasing symmetry we're not looking for a perfect neutral
23:06
purpose what would you say are the main advantages of Pilates as a form of exercise
23:12
for people who are, well, for anybody who.
23:15
Okay. So as for my point of view is, as I say, I would say, there's one people
23:21
say that library, that light instead of toolbox.
23:24
I prefer to use right library because sometimes when we actually like know more
23:31
things and try to learn more things, same.
23:34
Pilates is also another kind of like library for me that I could, you know.
23:38
Pick up and, you know, tailored exercise suit
23:41
to that people as well so i consider
23:44
pilates also another strengthening exercises and
23:49
you know breathing is like a whole body approach like because
23:52
it's my like more like a breathing exercises mental exercises
23:56
so as from my point of
23:59
view it's also another library like the things in
24:01
my library that i could pick and tailor that
24:04
things to mind clients so i'm
24:08
not trying to say that this is okay this
24:11
one is amazing older than that one or this one is
24:14
less than that one i think it just like depends on
24:17
that person needs like that is that
24:19
answer your questions yeah no no i think so no it's
24:22
great it's kind of it gives you more i like the way you
24:25
do change from toolbox to library i think that's going to catch on now um.
24:28
Yeah it gives you more kind of whole body
24:31
experiences for the person to go through which could help and
24:34
also the breathing as well a nice whole body approach maybe what
24:38
would be quite cool is could you without giving away any names
24:40
or anything can you think of any case histories or any
24:43
conditions where you have used your knowledge of pilates to
24:47
help a client outcome so i
24:49
would say one interesting one is probably scoliosis
24:53
so um i'm i might
24:56
to be disclaimer i might not offer i'm expert in scoliosis here but i have one
25:02
scoliosis case which is functionals and I feel like I had this experience and
25:07
I feel like Pilates has specific exercises for scoliosis like I mentioned already
25:12
like pelvic tail to kind of let's and then like.
25:16
So the thing is, I try to combine the idea that I had from Pilates that I learned
25:22
from the course, plus the recent scoliosis rehab research.
25:27
So I try to search, okay, what one I could do, what should I update,
25:31
because I'm not an expert in scoliosis.
25:33
So I combine what I learned from classical Pilates networks with target the breathing drill.
25:41
So you can say like you can see the the scoliosis breathing
25:44
exercise also really important as well
25:48
and yeah like that so
25:51
i try to combine this and use this with my clients yeah like that pretty much
25:57
like that so i have a definition of because we're kind of familiar as well as
26:03
a slight kink in the spine once upon a time which was out of symmetry we would
26:06
say isn't necessarily going to cause pain or problems.
26:11
And we've seen plenty of examples of athletes with a little bit of scoliosis
26:14
or a little bit of a change.
26:15
What's your definition of, you said like functional scoliosis.
26:20
What's your definition of scoliosis that needs actual intervention?
26:24
So as I say, so right now I'm trying, because when I see scoliosis as people,
26:29
first we know some people come with the x-ray, some people doesn't.
26:32
So functionals, I think, is more like from the muscle imbalance from both sides.
26:36
So we start to more like, let's try to move this
26:39
side and then let's see the concave and the convent curve and
26:42
then let's use the exercises to help
26:46
them to you know do more like
26:49
breathing exercise combined with together but as I
26:52
say I'm not an expert in coliosis but I'm also the person who try as much as
26:57
I could to help people so I went back home working on the studies I take a little
27:02
bit of short courts for like four hours of CPD in the UK to work on Pilates
27:08
for scoliosis people and.
27:11
Okay sorry i was just distracted oh don't worry about them
27:14
they've got loads of conversations going and they're talking about bird dogs or something that's
27:17
fine yeah i think the bird dogs okay i haven't used
27:20
it for ages so um so so pretty
27:23
much like that and also the people
27:26
um for i that i use pilates with beside the
27:29
scoliosis is more like um and just general people
27:33
who are more like a computer base and we start
27:36
to like let them move more most of the people that regarding
27:39
to my experience most of the people who like pilates is going
27:41
to be more like they choose this because they prefer
27:44
to do this and they think is they can say consistency so
27:48
what i normally advise to my client is if if
27:51
you find something that you could do consistency and you
27:54
enjoy doing it just keep doing it even though it's
27:57
different form of exercises like there is most most
28:01
of my clients and they don't want to go
28:03
to the gym and i said like okay strengthening weight
28:06
training exercise is amazing but if
28:09
you if you don't want to go to the gym but if you
28:12
want to keep doing the pilates that's also mean
28:15
the consistency and discipline is more like accountability as well so i was
28:19
just like okay just do what you think you can stick on for long times like that's
28:24
good that's true yeah it's definitely the evidence like you started saying evidence
28:28
informed you have to give a little bit of the clients what they like what they
28:31
enjoy because otherwise the exercise adherence is not going to be there.
28:35
I'm interested, again, so Rafa talked about a lot of the misconceptions out
28:41
there with regards to looking for
28:43
symmetry and looking for kind of that pre-activation of the core muscles.
28:48
What about somebody who's listening, who is running a class of, I don't know,
28:54
20 mat pilates or something, and they've been using a lot of these cues and
28:59
doing pre-activation exercises, and imagine that they've listened to some of
29:03
Rafa's episodes and they've realized that I shouldn't really be using these internal cues.
29:08
I should be using more external cues, for example, or because I'm not really
29:11
helping these people as much as I potentially could.
29:14
Maybe they need to change the language they're using. That's probably going
29:17
to have an effect on the class.
29:19
In your experience, how do people who are receiving Pilates react when you start
29:23
tweaking the messages you're giving?
29:25
Are they kind of surprised or they just go with it so mine
29:29
says i okay i have this transitions
29:32
i passed i mean my experience might not that long but
29:35
i have this transitions happen with me as well so first
29:38
is when i start using one terms or
29:41
describe some wasn't some people they don't understand and they might not get
29:45
it or maybe some people they just stick to this cue already and then when we
29:50
start to see in the way we say the words there are two ways so they respond
29:54
differently so they don't understand at all or they just okay they get it more,
29:59
And then they just calm down. So basically, I think it's okay that you start
30:03
to change a little bit and, you know, get and also, you know,
30:08
collect the data and response from your clients.
30:11
That's why I learned from Raphael that is, that's why it's called Evident Inform.
30:16
You need to, you know, gathering the information from a client's perspective as well.
30:21
So I'm not just like, right, okay, I'm going to change today.
30:24
His episodes is actually kind of like,
30:27
less giving me a question mark
30:31
throw the questions and then okay what is
30:33
it what i do is it the right one and i feel like okay
30:36
let's try to see how it go let's start to adapt
30:40
and change a little bit but not rapid change it's
30:43
okay that you can start to implement things a little bit
30:46
but not just rapid change one night like that
30:49
from my point of view so you might get different response
30:52
regarding regarding the clients or the people who
30:55
are working on but it's okay to you
30:58
know change it doesn't have to be like as i say let
31:00
the research guide us i'm also up to.
31:03
People who follow the research and also you know we
31:06
we i'm not a researcher but the thing is
31:09
we also kind of like see the trends how fast
31:13
the world is the changing even though it's in a
31:15
normal day on academic day so it's just like it's
31:19
not that it's not that
31:21
a big scary thing to
31:25
make change or a little job for us before you
31:28
do a big jump like that if you feel like it's really hard to
31:31
just swap everything rapidly so just make sure that
31:34
you kind of like do it smoothly in your way i will say
31:37
that's nice that sounds that's hopefully not
31:40
as scary as listeners might be thinking about having
31:43
to suddenly do totally different classes and i like the idea you
31:46
said about you know keeping communication going with your
31:49
class and your clients and seeing how they feel and how they react to slightly
31:53
different cues and stuff that's really cool as well so that's great and don't
31:57
forget people who join us live if you've got any questions or if you do is anybody
32:01
in the live audience actually take pilates or use pilates inspired movements
32:05
and stuff like that and do do feel free to put the question in there.
32:09
I just wanted to say to make sure that Raphael's podcast, Pilates Elephants,
32:14
is still very much alive and kicking, can be found on all popular podcast apps.
32:19
I didn't actually realize how many he does.
32:22
I mean, when I first spoke to him in 2021, yeah, he was on episode 52 back then
32:27
in 2021, and now he's on 307,
32:29
which means he's doing an average of more than one a week, which has
32:32
actually made me feel a little bit jealous because I thought I was doing well with one
32:35
a week and he's actually beaten that he's incredible but
32:38
yeah there is just for people who are listening there is a
32:41
whole well there's like 307 episodes where
32:46
he takes you through and i think i like to think he is pretty gentle in looking
32:52
after people especially back in the beginning where he's with chloe chloe bunter
32:56
he's a co-host they're really good they're just looking after you they're not
33:00
going to jump on a pedestal and say you're doing it all wrong you're an idiot,
33:04
And I think that's really important because it is scary to have to change what
33:09
you're doing, but it's natural, isn't it? We shouldn't really fear it.
33:13
Does it make you want to go back to the school who taught you the Pilates and get your money back?
33:19
Or do you understand that that's kind of what they were teaching?
33:23
Yeah, I mean, I... Is it an option to get money? Yeah.
33:26
Yeah, I was like, I never think about it until you say it. But I mean,
33:30
it's also the journey that who I am today.
33:33
So probably just invest what I'm seeing right now.
33:36
So yeah, but I, the big thing that I haven't talked about it,
33:41
and I want to say it right now is the thing is, I want to, you know.
33:46
I love his, I mean, Bender, I love Bender picks big pictures and views and his
33:53
energetic styles that actually inspiring to hear.
33:56
You know the instructor who actually digging into science
33:59
and then i feel like okay and he doing thing
34:02
he continue doing podcasts and the the
34:05
the instagram as well too you know more like a
34:08
mini micro cpd for people who actually
34:11
you know working on the phones every day and then scrollings and
34:14
that's also what the thing that you're doing right now and
34:18
i was just like i'm really thankful that he's brought this up and
34:20
actually you know inspires the people
34:23
who actually use this exercise or this
34:27
form of exercise like me to actually okay what's the
34:29
question this is the question mark and how could
34:32
we do it in a better way and what the
34:35
research say what the clients experience like this
34:38
and that i feel like he not like this
34:41
is not good like that as you say
34:44
so he actually gives support things an
34:47
idea to just okay lead us to do like so
34:51
i'll say is this a research to practice gap like
34:55
that so is i'll say bender alludes to pilates cause often includes older belief
35:03
and new teachers just f-stop and just like a strategy on start to integrating
35:07
research into teacher trainings that's what the big question that i could get
35:12
so my question is is it okay For instance.
35:16
Should certification program require an evidence-informed or best practice module
35:24
in the Pilates training course?
35:27
Probably like if you're training in pilates core should
35:30
we have the certificates or the module that is
35:33
actually talk about even better practice or choose
35:36
studios can subscribe to more like a journal that
35:39
actually have updated cpd or
35:42
regular meetings like that so it's going to be you
35:45
know more in terms of practice and bridge the gaps
35:48
between research to the practice gap like
35:51
that because to be honest sometimes if
35:54
i learn one topics i might not because there are
35:57
area that we use as a physio we might not stay
36:00
updated on this one area that thing
36:03
that already go go really fast for example if you
36:06
use an acl we listened to the therapy expo
36:09
last year about the quads the quad tendon surgery
36:12
that actually started to expanding in the uk and and
36:17
in thailand we still do hamstring grafts as well so it's
36:20
like if i'm not the people who have a lot of acl experience like
36:23
clients and experience i'm not gonna go and you know update that
36:26
much area same as the physio same as the pilates as
36:29
well so it's gonna be nice if we actually put
36:32
this into training course as well to for pilates instructor
36:35
and have kind of like the the places
36:39
that we could actually see updated like like what vendor
36:42
do so i'm i just want to say thank you.
36:45
To him that actually you know doing this as well
36:48
right that's very nice so when i
36:51
yeah when i think about pilates and science like okay let's see his intergrams
36:55
so it's going to be a really quick read comparing to if you need to spend time
36:58
for probably an hour probably two hours like me if the english is not my first
37:03
language so i need to like okay so that's kind of a very quick quick knowledge
37:07
update dali's i would say.
37:10
Yeah, definitely. He's very good on Instagram and is a very nice way of learning
37:14
and taking on the information bit by bit.
37:17
Breathe Education is the tag if you're looking for Raphael Bender,
37:22
the website, Breathe Education, and then also on Instagram.
37:25
And also he has a personal account as well. Yeah, it's a good information.
37:28
So did you say you're not angry with the people who charged you for that Pilates course?
37:33
You just think, it's who I am today, it's fine. Or
37:36
do you think they've a little bit a little
37:39
bit to be honest because of also i
37:42
mean think about i have no ideas first i
37:45
still believe that is right for my bachelor degrees okay
37:48
i'm taught as a physio so bachelor also taught
37:51
me so i want to teach when i learn it okay that's right okay let's
37:54
try lecture studies studies and then
37:57
when we would we actually when i actually listen to
38:00
his podcast is actually okay okay that's
38:04
a good question and when i read the paper that it came out right that's
38:08
aligned so that's what
38:10
we do all the way in the past wrong and how.
38:13
Could we do i'm i'm getting angry a little
38:16
bit but the thing is yeah we need to move
38:18
forward right so just like keep updating that is the
38:21
more important thing that i learned from this actions and you
38:24
know what happened to me that even once we learn things
38:27
we cannot just stay and think is it's going to be right forever
38:30
it could be but the thing is everything you.
38:33
Change every day so keep update is the thing that is
38:36
going to be another i will say skill that
38:39
most of the healthcare provider not just
38:42
the lattice instructor or physio have to do that's very
38:46
cool so you're taking it as a positive experience yeah i'm
38:49
trying to update it yeah yeah i don't
38:52
try to be optimistic but yeah a little
38:55
bit of money back would be nice yeah because
39:00
they're not cheap some of these and unfortunately again it's
39:04
like because this very much and i think raf as well mentioned
39:07
this in the podcast it's there's lots of similarities between
39:11
pilates and soft tissue therapy and
39:13
manual therapy because it's all very much the
39:17
problems are basing it on a kind of path of
39:20
anatomical model a structural model where we're blaming structure
39:23
the biomechanics and we're looking for perfect symmetry and so
39:26
there's a very much a similar situation going on but
39:30
if we're working with people in pain and people are paying us money and coming
39:34
to us for professional opinions we've kind of got a duty to make sure we're
39:38
giving them something which is up to date otherwise we're taking money for someone
39:42
in pain and that's an ethical nightmare we really shouldn't be doing it so it's interesting Thank you.
39:48
But yeah right well look it's 8 43 that
39:51
was fast oh okay that's a very
39:53
fast i feel like i'm still wide awake even though it's
39:56
almost 3 a.m morning no it's really nice to hear your perspective and i love
40:01
the way you're paying homage to raf who's a great educator and i will contact
40:04
him and give him a link to this obviously he's in melbourne in australia so
40:07
he's fast asleep now because when he joined us it was seven in the morning so
40:11
he might actually he might be up now he could be up It could be about half or seven, eight o'clock.
40:14
I think it's probably six hours for me.
40:18
So I'm not sure. Yeah, I think it's about eight o'clock there.
40:21
But I'll make sure I throw this to him. It's very cool.
40:23
If people are interested in staying in contact with you, then Instagram,
40:29
did we say, is the best place?
40:31
Yeah, you can just DM me. Because right now I'm back to Thailand already because of my personal reason.
40:38
So I'm not in the UK anymore. um so if you have any things or any suggestions
40:43
or feedbacks i'm really open to everything so you can just direct me or inbox
40:48
to my instagram so i think that's at we physio yeah yes that one.
40:53
W-e-e physio right so which is good because
40:56
that's a segue into why you called the we physio yeah i'm
41:00
just like i'm just thinking about the the names and then
41:03
i that day there are one football at that
41:06
he taught me glass region and he taught me the word
41:09
we like that doesn't mean a little and I
41:12
was just like oh I love that word and I'm only
41:15
you know a small not a small but I'm
41:18
just like the people who run around with the football players and then just
41:21
like okay right I'm here everybody I was just like oh we feel so gonna be a
41:24
nice name and I and I also I to be honest I love Glasgow so much it's or it's
41:29
already my second home and I feel like when I create something it's also shaved
41:34
me to this person it's gonna be it's gonna be nice to have the words,
41:37
that's kind of like a scottish word on my instagram.
41:42
Very nice. And when you were there, you were with NK Physio,
41:45
with Natalie Carle there?
41:47
Yes, I was. My old workplace is NK Physio. I am in Glasgow, East Brite.
41:53
And with Natalie, she's an amazing person as well. It's amazing how you say the word Glasgow.
41:59
Suddenly you go into such a perfect Scottish accent.
42:03
Yeah, most people listening would go Glasgow, but you're like,
42:06
when I am in Glasgow, or it's perfect. Glasgow. I, that's a yes, I.
42:12
No, that's great. Yeah, so shout out to Natalie Kyle from mkphysio.com in Glasgow.
42:16
We'll make sure that that link goes in there because I know you're very proud
42:19
of the work that she does over there in Glasgow.
42:22
And hopefully one day we'll bring the STA conference up to Glasgow.
42:25
We've got a few contacts up there.
42:27
I'm taking my Gait course to Calendar, which is, well, not that close to Glasgow.
42:32
It's more Stirling, but it's, yeah, up there. Oh, Stirling? Yeah,
42:36
it's just down the road from Stirling.
42:38
So it's not too far away from Glasgow. I think it's probably 20 minutes train from Glasgow.
42:41
It's not too bad. Not too fast at all. It's not too bad. We have actually got
42:44
in the audience tonight Stevie Barr from the Scottish Therapist Facebook group. He's in Glasgow.
42:50
So we got, yeah, Scottish representatives in tonight. Do you know the Scottish Facebook group?
42:56
Scottish Therapists on Facebook? I'm not sure, but I'm not in any group.
43:01
If you miss Scotland, then they'll send you the link. That's a nice place in
43:04
case you are missing Scotland.
43:05
It's a good place to hang out with therapists. you know what when
43:09
i'm in scotland's what what why what i normally do so
43:11
i watch the glass videos videos on youtube
43:14
and then i realized that i barely understand it and
43:17
i was just like oh my god i used to understand that not 100 but probably more
43:23
than 50s but yeah right now i just like what did you say yeah like that oh there's
43:30
one people say that um you have glass video and thai accents thank you kofun kha.
43:37
Nikki said that I have a
43:40
Glaswegian tie isn't I yeah yeah definitely that's a
43:42
compliment and Stevie from Glasgow has said understandable yeah
43:45
yeah he understands everything you're saying it is tricky to understand yeah
43:49
Glasgow it's a pretty unless you're from Glasgow anyway right
43:52
so thank you so much for giving up your time really
43:55
appreciate it really interesting reflections and if
43:58
you are listening to this podcast and you have got any questions on
44:01
Pilates or you want more information then yeah follow sharia at we physio w-e-e
44:09
physio on instagram and also we'll put links in there to the pilates elephants
44:15
podcast so much and and to rafael bend and all of that wonderful right then.
44:22
Next week, we continue with our Reflection Series on May the 13th.
44:26
Yeah, got the date right at eight o'clock. My guest is going to be sports massage
44:30
therapist Hannah Tabram, who's also been on the show before,
44:33
who's going to be reflecting on episode 87, Menopause Transition,
44:37
Soft Tissue Implications.
44:39
That was recorded as part two of a women's health series we did back in February
44:43
2022 with special guest Jenny Browell, very big in the women's health industry.
44:48
So that's going to be a really good reflection with sports massage therapist,
44:52
Hannah Tabram. Looking forward to that.
44:55
And remember people, if you would like to be a guest on the show,
44:57
then to chat about a particular episode, then all you got to do is just hit me up on social media.
45:01
So either at RunChatLive or at UK underscore STA, and we'll have a discuss.
45:06
Sharia, you were pretty nervous. I think we can admit before you started,
45:10
but then English is just like a language. But do you feel more relaxed now?
45:13
Do you feel like... I'll say yes, because the thing is I speak tight.
45:18
Whole day today and I was just like okay and I
45:21
feel like I lost some confidence in my watching the video
45:24
of Glaswegian people speaking English and I barely understand so
45:27
I was just like okay am I gonna fully understand I
45:30
was just like okay this is 2 p.m and how I'm gonna work so I drink coffee not
45:37
sure when I'm gonna go to bed yeah yeah yeah good luck with that but no I really
45:42
appreciate you joining us um at such yeah like 2 30 whatever it's three o'clock
45:45
in the morning in Thailand. So thank you very much. Really appreciate it.
45:49
Okay, people, that brings us to the end. Oh, sorry. That's fine.
45:53
Absolute pleasure. Thank you very much.
45:55
Right, people, that brings us to the end of the episode. 8.50,
45:58
not bad. It was a great topic.
45:59
And I'm hoping some of you will be able to join us live. If you listen to the
46:02
podcast, then do please, please, please leave a rating or a review just so we
46:06
can get the word out there to more people because that's part of changing education
46:10
is just making Google work for you.
46:12
But it's only going to happen if you leave ratings and reviews for the podcast
46:15
that appears higher up. So please do that if you listen to the podcast.
46:19
Everyone who joined us live, thank you so much again, gang. Nikki says,
46:23
lovely wee episode. Thanks, guys. Lovely.
46:26
Stevie Barr says, nice chat, folks. Thank you very much. Yeah,
46:29
really appreciate you joining us live. Thank you so much.
46:32
Kau phun ha. Kau phun ha, Stephen. As I mean, thank you in Thai.
46:36
There you go. We'll make a soundbite out of that. We'll test you next week.
46:40
Let's see what you can see.
46:41
Right. Thanks a lot. Thank you very much, Sharia. really appreciate it yes thank
46:45
you for having me and thank you enjoy your night as well everybody.
46:51
Music.