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Rugby Direct - Steve Lancaster talks challenges shaping rugby in Aotearoa · Rugby Direct

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks at b
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  Speaker 1: Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio,
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  Speaker 1: Straight Down the Middle of.
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  Speaker 2: Trucks, Guy.
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  Speaker 1: Tryst Get inside the game from every angle. It's Rugby
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  Speaker 1: Direct with Elliot Smith and Liam Napier, powered by News Talks.
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  Speaker 3: Be Welcome into Rugby to Ranks, powered by in Zied Safety,
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  Speaker 3: Blackwoods Safety, therein Boots and or special Wednesday drop of
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  Speaker 3: the podcast for you. Liam and I were joined by
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: New Zealand Rugby's new Chief executive Steve Lancaster to talk
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  Speaker 3: about a range of issues in the game, from governance
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: to the pathways system to everything else around super Rugby
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: that is continuing to cause plenty of discussion. There were
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: a lot of topics covered as I mentioned, and I
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  Speaker 3: hope you enjoy the chat. We will be back tomorrow
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: with another edition of Rugby Directs. We'll cover off some
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: of what Dave Renny had the same in front of
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  Speaker 3: the media yesterday, as well as Sir Graham Henry's appointment
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  Speaker 3: as an All Black selector. But let's get into our
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  Speaker 3: chat with Steve Lancas to hear on Rugby Direct Thanks
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: as well to our production team, Mark, Kelly Caine, Dicky.
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  Speaker 3: Here's Steve Lancas is Rugby Direct you see on Rugby
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  Speaker 3: Chief Executive Steve Lancas to Welcome to Rugby Direct.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us, Thanks for having me first time.
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  Speaker 3: It is absolutely and obviously big news for you in
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  Speaker 3: the last week that you've gone up to the top job.
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  Speaker 3: How how special has that been over the last week
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  Speaker 3: and what's it been like since putting your feet under
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  Speaker 3: the desk.
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  Speaker 4: It's been very special. I also that it's very humbling,
• 1:57
  Speaker 4: very exciting. I feel really privileged and really tired at
• 2:00
  Speaker 4: the moment. So I've never been so overwhelmed with the
• 2:05
  Speaker 4: volume of emails and text messages. But it's strong encouragement
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  Speaker 4: from my wife to enjoy that while it lasts, because
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  Speaker 4: it probably lasts for a short time.
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  Speaker 2: But it's been very special.
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  Speaker 4: But feed back under the test now and we're getting
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  Speaker 4: on with it absolutely.
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  Speaker 2: Obviously you did the role interim wise for a few months.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, what did you learn as to what it takes
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  Speaker 3: to run this organization of that period.
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  Speaker 4: I think what I learned was that you have to
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  Speaker 4: be across everything. Don't have the luxury that I have
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  Speaker 4: had in the past of being able to focus on
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  Speaker 4: one lane, be that professional team, high performance or the
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  Speaker 4: community game. But you've got to be across everything that's
• 2:41
  Speaker 4: happening in terms of the rugby, but also commercially politically
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  Speaker 4: your world, rugby politics, international relationships. So it's just a
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  Speaker 4: breadth of things that you have to be across. It
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  Speaker 4: has been the biggest learning curve for me.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, there's plenty on your plate from day to day,
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  Speaker 5: week to week. We thought we might start with Super
• 3:00
  Speaker 5: Rugby and the future of the comp I. Yes, you know,
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  Speaker 5: it's been through lots of iterations over the years and
• 3:08
  Speaker 5: a wee bit of a state of flux with Moana.
• 3:11
  Speaker 5: If we sort of start there, what's the leaders you
• 3:14
  Speaker 5: can tell us about Mowana and their future?
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, well, not much has changed since since the news
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  Speaker 4: broke around the pacifica medical Association's inability to keep operating
• 3:26
  Speaker 4: that team. So we've been really clear that we won't
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: be providing a financial solution to that. We're just we're
• 3:32
  Speaker 4: just not in a position to do so. We've you've
• 3:34
  Speaker 4: been hugely supportive of that team from its inception. It's
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: just such a shame that they are where they are
• 3:40
  Speaker 4: right for everyone involved the players, the staff, fans, partners,
• 3:45
  Speaker 4: and there are some parties that are working really hard
• 3:47
  Speaker 4: to find a way to keep that team in the competition.
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  Speaker 2: So we engage with those parties. I can't tell you
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: who they are right now, but we are working.
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  Speaker 4: As fast as possible to understand whether they have viable,
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  Speaker 4: feasible business cases for the team, because this isn't just
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  Speaker 4: about getting that team through next year, right We need
• 4:06
  Speaker 4: to see that team able to stand on its own
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  Speaker 4: too indefinitely. And so that's the bar that's been set
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  Speaker 4: for for those parties.
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  Speaker 2: They understand that and we will work through that with
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  Speaker 2: them as quickly as possible. What's the runway? Does it
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: have to be sorted a couple of weeks?
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  Speaker 4: It's pretty short, Yeah, it is. There's no there's no
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  Speaker 4: deadline on this. And again, we want to do justice
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  Speaker 4: to those people that are trying to keep the team
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  Speaker 4: alive or afloat. And so, you know, we are just
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  Speaker 4: mindful though that in terms of the runway, we need
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  Speaker 4: to make some decisions and some announcements about the competition
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  Speaker 4: next year. That's really important for a whole range of factors.
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  Speaker 4: You know, broadcasters need to know, commercial partners need to know,
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  Speaker 4: players need to know if they're making staff ground decisions.
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  Speaker 4: So we'd like to think that we'll have clearly by
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  Speaker 4: the end of this year's competition, but that's not a deadline,
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  Speaker 4: right that could change.
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  Speaker 2: It has to remain fluid with super right been is
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  Speaker 2: the competition fit for purpose? You guys love that per well, well,
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  Speaker 2: it is.
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  Speaker 4: It is fit for purpose, and I'm sure we'll go
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  Speaker 4: there because that's not to say that it doesn't have
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  Speaker 4: its challenges, But for us, it's just two purposes. The
• 5:10
  Speaker 4: first purpose is that it keeps our best talent playing
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  Speaker 4: in New Zealand for our teams and prepares them for
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  Speaker 4: the All Blacks and then therefore for international competition.
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  Speaker 2: It does that.
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  Speaker 4: And the second is that it's a thriving commercial property.
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  Speaker 4: And that's a bit where it's probably challenged at the moment,
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  Speaker 4: is that it's really hard for our clubs to be
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  Speaker 4: profitable in any given year. So it certainly is fit
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  Speaker 4: for purpose in terms of the product the pathway that
• 5:39
  Speaker 4: it's providing through the All Blacks. The bit that we've
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  Speaker 4: got to do some work on is ensuring that the
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  Speaker 4: business model around that is the right one going forward.
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  Speaker 2: Can it be the right, one. Can these clubs make
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  Speaker 2: a profit? Yeah?
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, I mean, you know, everything's possible, right, and
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  Speaker 4: it's just a question of understanding the varying expectations of stakeholds.
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  Speaker 4: We have a different expectation is New Zealand Rugby to
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  Speaker 4: what a private vestor does who's put their own money
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  Speaker 4: into the team. Ultimately, we're all involved because we love
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  Speaker 4: the game, we care about the game, we care about
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  Speaker 4: the product. But you know, the outcomes that we're seeking
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  Speaker 4: might be slightly different as well. So we've just got
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  Speaker 4: to we've got to balance those and find a way
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  Speaker 4: that to ensure that everyone's desires are met over time.
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  Speaker 2: Sup Gram.
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  Speaker 3: Henry mentioned yesterday that we can't keep doing what we're doing,
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  Speaker 3: introducing maybe a wider scope for New Zealand along with
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: retaining Australia.
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  Speaker 2: Are you open to that idea? Would it work? Yeah?
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  Speaker 4: So retaining Australia is critical, that's you know, it probably
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  Speaker 4: goes for ussets are not negotiable for us, Like we
• 6:35
  Speaker 4: really believe in a transpasm and competition. The Australian market
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  Speaker 4: is a big market and it's probably under access at
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: the moment for By Rugby and by Super Rugby, So
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  Speaker 4: we think there's real opportunity for growth here in terms
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  Speaker 4: of the competition. It's its profile, it's commercial footprint as well,
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  Speaker 4: but and the vehicles that compete in the competition, Like,
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  Speaker 4: we really do believe in having a small number of
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  Speaker 4: New Zealand team New Zealand based teams or New Zealand
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  Speaker 4: teams that aggregate our best talent and compete in that competition.
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  Speaker 4: So at the moment, you know that we don't see
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  Speaker 4: the need for any change. But look, Graham raised the
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  Speaker 4: point you're starting. I saw that as sort as comments
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  Speaker 4: around you know, maybe you have more more teams in
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  Speaker 4: that company, provincial based teams, like everyone's got opinions on that, right,
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  Speaker 4: that comes up all the time. The one thing I
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  Speaker 4: would say about more teams is that that would raise
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  Speaker 4: some real questions about viability, right, like do we have
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  Speaker 4: the resources in this country financial resource, commercial resources, human
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  Speaker 4: resources to have more than five New Zealand based nz
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  Speaker 4: RT license teams in that competition. I don't know the
• 7:38
  Speaker 4: answer to that, but I think that would have to
• 7:40
  Speaker 4: be well tested before we let to more teams.
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  Speaker 5: Rugby's a business, right, and you talk about the commercials
• 7:47
  Speaker 5: and super rugby and the bottom lines. We had Malcolm
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  Speaker 5: gillies on a few weeks back, and I'm sure you
• 7:53
  Speaker 5: know he's got some pretty strong views about what could
• 7:57
  Speaker 5: change if we talk privatization. There is an element of
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  Speaker 5: privatization in the Super Rugby clubs. Does it need to grow,
• 8:03
  Speaker 5: does it need to expand? And if so, what did that?
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  Speaker 5: What would that mean for play a contracting and all
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  Speaker 5: those sorts of things that are those discussions live? Are
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  Speaker 5: they on the table?
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  Speaker 4: They are, They're alive and on the table. So Malcolm
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  Speaker 4: voices used and again what a good thing. Has someone
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  Speaker 4: come out saying they want to invest more money, right
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  Speaker 4: and they want to find a way to do that,
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  Speaker 4: and so we certainly welcome that.
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  Speaker 2: But you know, those are the things that we need
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  Speaker 2: to work.
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  Speaker 4: Through and we are they are live conversations right now.
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  Speaker 4: You know, we're having a lot of conversations about Super Rugby.
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  Speaker 4: Those conversations involve the owners of the clubs, the other
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: the various shareholders because of course many of them have
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: provincial union shareholdings as well, and our own people. So yeah,
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  Speaker 4: live conversations and those ones won't be concluded anytime soon.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: I mean they'll be ongoing for probably for the rest
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: of the year. What about a draft? What are your
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: thoughts on that.
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  Speaker 5: Ellie and I have previously discussed things like franchises having
• 9:02
  Speaker 5: the ability to protect thirty players and then look into
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  Speaker 5: the NPC and promoting that as a recruitment to all
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  Speaker 5: having some form of draft day. Then there's other ideas
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  Speaker 5: around a draft between player movement between New Zealand and Australia.
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: Where do you sit on that and whether that's a
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  Speaker 2: viable option.
• 9:21
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I do have an open mind to that. I've
• 9:25
  Speaker 4: been around long enough to have been in the Super
• 9:28
  Speaker 4: Rugby model when there was a draft and you know,
• 9:31
  Speaker 4: the teams were able to protect a certain number of
• 9:33
  Speaker 4: players I think was in the low twenties back then,
• 9:37
  Speaker 4: and there was all sorts of tactics about how many
• 9:39
  Speaker 4: players were protected and who might be left unprotected that
• 9:42
  Speaker 4: you might be able to secure. And I and I
• 9:44
  Speaker 4: sat in the war room at Rugby Park with the Crusaders.
• 9:47
  Speaker 4: Many times we were at a whiteboard and we were
• 9:48
  Speaker 4: moving names around and strategizing how good if you can
• 9:51
  Speaker 4: commercialize that too. But you've got to balance that with
• 9:55
  Speaker 4: what's best for the players, what's on the best interest
• 9:57
  Speaker 4: of the players. And one of the things we constantly
• 9:58
  Speaker 4: balance here in New Zealand is ensuring that we've got
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: the right environment to make New Zealand as an attractive
• 10:04
  Speaker 4: New Zealand and attractive proposition as possible for our players.
• 10:07
  Speaker 4: And one thing is Rob Nichol and the Plays Association
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: being creon for a long time, is that they don't
• 10:11
  Speaker 4: really favor a draft. I'm not speaking for Rob because
• 10:14
  Speaker 4: his position may well have changed over time, but certainly
• 10:16
  Speaker 4: in the previous discussions I've had with Rob, his perspective
• 10:20
  Speaker 4: on behalf of the players and representing the players is
• 10:22
  Speaker 4: that they value the ability to make decisions about their lives,
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: about where they live, where they'll raise their families and
• 10:30
  Speaker 4: have some certainty about that, rather than be subject to
• 10:32
  Speaker 4: the woman of a coach's decision on a certain date
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: of the year and then finding that they've been whisked
• 10:37
  Speaker 4: off to another city for eight nine months of the year. So,
• 10:41
  Speaker 4: you know, we just got to balance that and as
• 10:42
  Speaker 4: I say, for us, the unique challenges that we work
• 10:46
  Speaker 4: really hard to create environments that keep our players in
• 10:49
  Speaker 4: the country, and if that's part of the mix, then
• 10:51
  Speaker 4: that certainly has an influence.
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: Super rugby this year. It feels to you personally my
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: personal view in a rugby commentator on a journalist, but
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: it feels like the quality has been to be honest,
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: be better than the NRL. But do you feel that
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: competition breathing down your neck from a New Zealand perspective.
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: No, I don't know.
• 11:09
  Speaker 4: I have been our set a bit over the last week.
• 11:12
  Speaker 4: We're aware of how strong the NRL is at the
• 11:15
  Speaker 4: moment and good on them, right, they've got a great product,
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: they market it well. But that doesn't mean that rugby
• 11:20
  Speaker 4: can't be strong. There's there's no no law that says
• 11:24
  Speaker 4: that for one to be strong, the other has to suffer.
• 11:27
  Speaker 4: So we're really focused on our competition and as so,
• 11:29
  Speaker 4: I'm glad he say I think it's a better product.
• 11:31
  Speaker 4: We think it's a great product. I fact, we know
• 11:33
  Speaker 4: it's a great product. We're seeing over eight tries a
• 11:35
  Speaker 4: game and Super Rugby this year that's got that's more
• 11:38
  Speaker 4: tries a game than any of the other professional competitions
• 11:40
  Speaker 4: around the rugby competitions around the world, you know, less time,
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: less downtime due to match official interventions. And again there's
• 11:49
  Speaker 4: been a bit of chat over the last week about
• 11:51
  Speaker 4: the attendance and crowd size, and I've just got a
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: stat today that for the third year in a row,
• 11:57
  Speaker 4: we're seeing double digit attendance increases across all of the
• 12:00
  Speaker 4: five Super New Zealand Super franchises. So while I don't
• 12:03
  Speaker 4: I don't deny hide from the fact that we need
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: to keep growing attendance, it's actually tracking in the right direction.
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: Let's move on two players. There's been, obviously, and there
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: always is players leaving, but it feels like maybe at
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: the moment there are more players getting offshore, even flounders
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: and others that are maybe leaving in their prime. Do
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: you have concerns that say the middle tier of New
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: Zealand rugby is being ripped away and more attracted to
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: Japanese dollars or going over to the United Kingdom and Europe.
• 12:31
  Speaker 4: Because something that we're always mindful of. I think we
• 12:36
  Speaker 4: need to be careful that we don't create a perception
• 12:39
  Speaker 4: that this is a bigger issue than it is right now,
• 12:42
  Speaker 4: because this is always an issue for New Zealand rugby
• 12:45
  Speaker 4: right and it will continue to be, not just because
• 12:47
  Speaker 4: players can earn more money overseas, but because young people
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: like spread their wings and travel, and rugby players have
• 12:53
  Speaker 4: some incredible opportunities to do that and go and play
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: in different environments and experience different cultures, different different teammates
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: and different communities. So our players are always going to
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: be moving offshore at some point. I do think also
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: that when you look at the cycle of World Cups,
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: you always see quite quite a lot of all black
• 13:15
  Speaker 4: movement post to World Club. Right, players will commit to
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: New Zealand through to a World Cup. You have to
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: be selected, and then they might use the opportunity after
• 13:24
  Speaker 4: a World Cup to go. So I think this is
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: just my view that some of that middle tier players
• 13:28
  Speaker 4: may well be looking at this point in time and saying, actually,
• 13:32
  Speaker 4: if I had another year the markets, there's going to
• 13:35
  Speaker 4: be a lot more supply in the market, so this
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: is a good time to move and capitalize. That's not
• 13:40
  Speaker 4: to say that we wouldn't like to keep some of
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: the players you've just mentioned, and we work really had
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: to do that, which comes back to the draft question, right,
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: like we look at everything we can do to make
• 13:50
  Speaker 4: New Zion the place that they want to be.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: If we look at.
• 13:53
  Speaker 5: Someone like for young and off for twenty three year
• 13:57
  Speaker 5: old lit up super Rugby this year. So much has
• 14:00
  Speaker 5: changed from the back end of last year, from when
• 14:03
  Speaker 5: he signed from Newcastle to now. He's clearly right in
• 14:07
  Speaker 5: the All Blacks frame and everyone would love to keep him,
• 14:11
  Speaker 5: maybe even he's leaning towards a change of heart. What's
• 14:15
  Speaker 5: stopping you from calling up Newcastle and saying, hey, we'd
• 14:19
  Speaker 5: love to keep this guy, can we can we work
• 14:20
  Speaker 5: something out?
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: We don't really do that, but again, like it's these
• 14:25
  Speaker 4: are player choices. There's nothing stopping for him from doing that.
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: But it's not a space that we get into, right
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: and looking to buy players out of contracts or looking ahead.
• 14:34
  Speaker 4: And as you say, things have changed a lot for
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: him since the end of last year and he's taken
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: every opportunity he has been given. So good on him,
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: and he's made a decision. If he has a change
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: of heart, that's that's absolutely out to him. And I
• 14:47
  Speaker 4: heard Davey the same thing yesterday, right, like the ball
• 14:50
  Speaker 4: isn't his caught around that? But even if he does
• 14:53
  Speaker 4: honor his contract to Newcastle, he's still young, he might
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: he might well be back.
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: Brodie Rettallic was another name mentioned by it by Dave
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: Renni yesterday. Clearly there's a keenness on daver Rene's part
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: to all he's have a potential conversation if the travel
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: factor with Brodie can be can be sorted. But you
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: mentioned you're not in the business of going and making conversations.
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: But would Brody retire to be the kind of player
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: that you would get on the phone for or do
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: you just make it on Brody approaching New Zealand Rugby
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: all the chiefs or Dave Ronnie himself.
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: I've got no doubt that coaches are always having conversations
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: with players, right, And I know Dave's talked to Brady,
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: But ultimately that again, that's a decision for Brady. We're
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: not in the business of trawling around the world hitting
• 15:32
  Speaker 4: players up and trying to get them out of contracts.
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: Our eligibility policy, our competition model, our contracting framework.
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: They do buy in large work for us.
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: Right, We're gonna have a squad next year is capable
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: of winning the World Cup. So I mean, on that
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: measure alone, you'd say the model is working. And so
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: we're constantly balancing that, right and for a player like Brady's,
• 15:52
  Speaker 4: so over one hundred tests, he's done his time here
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: and now he's playing in a different competition, having a
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: different experience around out his career and happens to be
• 16:04
  Speaker 4: playing really well at the same time.
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: Flows well into the next question around eligibility. Look, personally,
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: I think as soon as you would contract dated and
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: you started and arrived in the country, you should be
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: eligible to play for the All Blacks. Can use outline again,
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: I know you've spoken about this before, but why such
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: a policy you wouldn't work in the case of say
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: Richie Woong of this year.
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's about the unintended consequences of those decisions. So yeah,
• 16:28
  Speaker 4: if we were to change or disregard the policy and
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: say that a player could play offshore, recommit to New
• 16:35
  Speaker 4: zealand come back and come straight back into the All Blacks,
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: we believe that the implication of that would be that
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: would see a significant shift in decision making by players
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: as to their playing futures and contracting would open the door.
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: We might then see an exodus of players. Actually, not
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: just middle tier but top tier players are with players
• 16:54
  Speaker 4: thinking that they could go ashore back themselves to come
• 16:57
  Speaker 4: back after three or four years and go straight back
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: into an All Black team. And what we know is
• 17:01
  Speaker 4: that the policy as it stands now has been a
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: factor in the decisions of many players to recommit to
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: New Zealand, to play in New Zealand in order to
• 17:09
  Speaker 4: be eligible for the All Blacks. That in turn underpins
• 17:11
  Speaker 4: the strength of Super Rugby. Strength of the NPC keeps
• 17:16
  Speaker 4: these heroes in New Zealand visible to young people. So
• 17:19
  Speaker 4: we have to take a system lends to that. And
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: I celebrate the fact that we have an All Blacks
• 17:24
  Speaker 4: coach who has a short term millions and that that
• 17:26
  Speaker 4: says my job is to win in the era now
• 17:29
  Speaker 4: and I want the best possible players available. That's absolutely
• 17:32
  Speaker 4: I'd be disappointed if we didn't have an All Blacks
• 17:33
  Speaker 4: coach that was saying that to us. We have to
• 17:35
  Speaker 4: take a more medium to long term view and say, okay,
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: but how might that play out for our system over time?
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: And is that in the best interests of the game
• 17:42
  Speaker 4: or the All Blacks. And so right now we're comfortable
• 17:46
  Speaker 4: with the policy. Never say never, right, nothing is carved
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: in stone in this business, but for now we're clear
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: that the policy works.
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: I know that your NPC is accomplition close to your
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: heart and you've spent a lot of years overseeing it.
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: But with all due respect to the NPC, Davreni's not
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: going to slick the player straight out of the NPC
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: for the All Blacks this year. So why do you
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: make a play like Richie wanting to go back and
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: play in PC so he can be in the All
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: Black It feels like a like a box ticking exercise.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: Almost.
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah, well it's not a box ticking exercise, and it's
• 18:15
  Speaker 4: not about making Richly play in the NPC. If he
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: had been back in New Zealand earlier and playing in
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: Super Rugby, he'd be eligible right now. So it's not
• 18:23
  Speaker 4: about the NPC. It's about the principle.
• 18:25
  Speaker 5: Sure, just on the last but one eligibility with Brody.
• 18:29
  Speaker 5: I think what David was pushing for is that here's
• 18:33
  Speaker 5: a guy like you say, that's played twelve years for
• 18:36
  Speaker 5: the Chiefs All Blacks. We've seen around the world work
• 18:41
  Speaker 5: to various degrees not to others Australia, Wales in terms
• 18:45
  Speaker 5: of metrics around certain caps or experience, and you can
• 18:48
  Speaker 5: select a next number from offshore. Do you envision there
• 18:53
  Speaker 5: being any regular room around that, whether that be next
• 18:56
  Speaker 5: year or beyond, or do you think like you say,
• 18:58
  Speaker 5: it's more important to protect the systems.
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: It's a hard question to answer because it's to gaze
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: into the future and say what will happen. I would
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: never say never, right, We're constantly read value on this,
• 19:15
  Speaker 4: and as the market evolves and changes, it's possible that
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: at some point in the future there might be some
• 19:20
  Speaker 4: change the policy, but it's equally possible that we'll continue
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: to believe that the policy is right. So if you
• 19:25
  Speaker 4: look at an example like Brodie, there are just so
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: many other facts that play. They're all the things we
• 19:29
  Speaker 4: just talked about. But also, and I'm not just talking
• 19:31
  Speaker 4: about him, but any play in that situation. They're getting
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: to an age, get to a stage in their career,
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: they're playing in a different context. You know, everything around
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: them is different. There's no guarantee that they'd come back
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: into the All Blacks and be the player that they were,
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: the player that we see in another competition either. So
• 19:46
  Speaker 4: there's just so many things at playing that as I say,
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: we're not yeah, we're not in the business the saying
• 19:51
  Speaker 4: we will never change the policy, but we regularly revisit it.
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: Do you think the eligibility questions over Blonde a little
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: bit because part from the players on sabbatical longer Fortalic
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: would probably be the only ones, maybe an Aaron Smith.
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: In terms of a depth button of making the All
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: Blacks from abroad. Do you think it's it is overl
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: line this question.
• 20:12
  Speaker 4: I'm going to answer that and the I'm going to
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: come back to the sabbatical point actually because I'm glad
• 20:15
  Speaker 4: you've raised that.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: No, I don't.
• 20:17
  Speaker 4: I think it's great because people are talking about rugby
• 20:19
  Speaker 4: right and people are talking about rugby and the conversations
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: are making people more interested in rugby.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: Fantastic. That's great for us.
• 20:28
  Speaker 4: But I'm glad you've raise sabbaticals because I haven't talked
• 20:30
  Speaker 4: about that, and that's another part of our mixed ride
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: and that's something that does work for us. Where you know,
• 20:33
  Speaker 4: right now, Kobe, we've got Ardisavia and Antony Lenett Brown
• 20:38
  Speaker 4: on sabbaticals. They will be eligible for the All Blex
• 20:40
  Speaker 4: when they come back without having played Super rugby, and
• 20:43
  Speaker 4: so that is a really important vehicle for us where
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: we can work with the players to allow them to
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: go offshore, earn some good money, experience a different culture,
• 20:52
  Speaker 4: freshen up a little bit. Scott Barrett is actually not
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: playing at all, so you know, they don't have to
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: be playing. But that also allows us to have some
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: influence over the environment that they go into, right, how
• 21:03
  Speaker 4: what their load's going to be, like, what sort of
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: coaching they're going to be subject to. So it's great
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: days coming back. But the real is when those guys
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: went to Colbert and sabbatical, he wasn't but we had
• 21:13
  Speaker 4: a lot of confidence and you know, knowing that Dave
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: was the head coach to people had around him that
• 21:17
  Speaker 4: they were going into a good environment, they'd come back
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: and slop back into the all blacks affairs selected. So yeah,
• 21:23
  Speaker 4: thanks for raising that. But that's another part of that
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: mixed for us, right, it's a very complex mix.
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 21:28
  Speaker 5: Sure, if we look we're talking about eligibility and potential evolution,
• 21:33
  Speaker 5: if we broadened that out to the all blacks. Hot
• 21:36
  Speaker 5: topic recently has been that the ANZAC test that's been
• 21:40
  Speaker 5: on the agenda for a couple of years. Previously he's
• 21:43
  Speaker 5: a Rugby weren't interested for a whole host of reasons.
• 21:47
  Speaker 5: That seems to have shifted expectations that that will go
• 21:51
  Speaker 5: ahead from next year. I guess is what are the
• 21:56
  Speaker 5: pros and cons as we sit here now that you
• 21:58
  Speaker 5: see to that fixture, I guess you know the financial
• 22:00
  Speaker 5: win for impact on super Rugby is a lot of
• 22:02
  Speaker 5: things to weigh up.
• 22:04
  Speaker 4: Yep, those are two of them. Those are two of
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: the big ones. So I guess what's you know?
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: You're right.
• 22:08
  Speaker 4: It's been on Rugby Australia's agenda for a couple of
• 22:11
  Speaker 4: years now, and there were conversations about it a couple
• 22:13
  Speaker 4: of years ago where we considered it and just said no,
• 22:16
  Speaker 4: we just don't think it's right for us right now.
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: But things change again. This is a good example of
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: where things can change.
• 22:23
  Speaker 4: We've got new leadership in our business, we've got new
• 22:25
  Speaker 4: coaching group with the All Blacks, We've got a bit
• 22:28
  Speaker 4: of a renewed focus on rugby Australia. One of the
• 22:30
  Speaker 4: things we're really aware of is the strength of rugby
• 22:33
  Speaker 4: in the North with the Home Unions and six Nations,
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: and the importance of us being strong in the South
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: and us being strong in the South starts with New
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: Zealand and Australia being close and working together as partners.
• 22:45
  Speaker 4: So we want to support rugby Australia. We know that
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: they've got a lot of competition in their backyard. So
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: you know it's hard at times for rugby to gain
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: real prominence and having an ANZAC bleed for them would
• 23:00
  Speaker 4: be a real boon for rugby, which would reflect back
• 23:03
  Speaker 4: to us in terms of some of the benefits. Right,
• 23:05
  Speaker 4: the raises the profile of rugby, It may raise interest
• 23:07
  Speaker 4: in Super Pacific. Keepis would go to that as well,
• 23:11
  Speaker 4: so right so it may be quite appealing to a
• 23:13
  Speaker 4: lot of people. So we've got an all Blacks coaching
• 23:16
  Speaker 4: group that are saying, actually, particularly if you look at
• 23:18
  Speaker 4: next year, hey, there could be some benefit and having
• 23:20
  Speaker 4: the opportunity to bring the group together earlier in the year.
• 23:23
  Speaker 4: But the risk of that is the downside of that
• 23:25
  Speaker 4: is which again with these are things we have to
• 23:27
  Speaker 4: wig up and what are the commercial considerations around that? Yeah,
• 23:29
  Speaker 4: it should be financially worthwhile, but how commercial rights shed
• 23:33
  Speaker 4: across the the two countries. How do we ensure it
• 23:37
  Speaker 4: works for our partners as well as Rugby Australia's Super
• 23:40
  Speaker 4: Rugby Pacific. How do we how do we manage the
• 23:43
  Speaker 4: impact on that because it would be played in the
• 23:45
  Speaker 4: middle of that competition. We think it can be, but
• 23:47
  Speaker 4: we've got to work through that. What are the views
• 23:49
  Speaker 4: of the superclubs, what are the views of the players?
• 23:51
  Speaker 4: How do they feel about going and playing a week
• 23:53
  Speaker 4: of test rugby? And of course we're going to three
• 23:55
  Speaker 4: bleeds rather than two, which means that it's easier for
• 23:58
  Speaker 4: Australia to winery, so you know, so that's that's that's
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: a risk as well. Right now, it's really hard for them.
• 24:04
  Speaker 4: They've got to win. They've got to win both matches
• 24:06
  Speaker 4: to win the bled. What's been the feedback super rugby
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: clubs around it.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: They're open to it. Yeah, they're open to it.
• 24:12
  Speaker 4: So they're obviously well they're understandably cautiously open to it.
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: You know, they're really invested in their competition. But they
• 24:20
  Speaker 4: get it right, Like I mean, they get that there
• 24:24
  Speaker 4: are merits or there are strong arguments for it. But
• 24:28
  Speaker 4: in saying that, they also understand I think trust us
• 24:30
  Speaker 4: to weigh up that with the risks and make the
• 24:32
  Speaker 4: right decision. So we haven't made any decision on that yet.
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: Like you say, Len, there's a bit of momentum around,
• 24:36
  Speaker 4: there's a lot of talk about it. We haven't hid
• 24:39
  Speaker 4: from that. So yeah, yeah, we are talking about we're
• 24:40
  Speaker 4: talking about it with rugby Australia, but it's by no
• 24:42
  Speaker 4: means confirmed. There's still quite a lot of water to
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: flow under the bridge before before before that comes to reality.
• 24:48
  Speaker 5: It's another big old yea for the All Blacks are
• 24:51
  Speaker 5: incredibly important to drive revenue and maintain the brand and
• 24:56
  Speaker 5: the success and all those sorts of things. I guess
• 24:58
  Speaker 5: there's been a lot of fluctuation and change. What is
• 25:02
  Speaker 5: a successful season look like for the All Blacks from
• 25:05
  Speaker 5: your perspective, I think there's is it fourteen tests this year,
• 25:08
  Speaker 5: greatest rivalry tour.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a big gold year.
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: It's a big year. It's a really big year. Of course,
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: winning is how we measure success, and again we don't
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: shy away from that, neither to the team. I guess
• 25:21
  Speaker 4: when we talk about winning too, it's not about having
• 25:23
  Speaker 4: a better than fifty percent win ratio. Our benchmarker is
• 25:26
  Speaker 4: the All Blacks historic winning percentage, which is seventy seven percent.
• 25:29
  Speaker 4: So you put that another way, They've got to win
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: four out of five tests or the season is not
• 25:34
  Speaker 4: considered a success. We know that the tour to South Africa,
• 25:38
  Speaker 4: rugby's greatest rivalry is going to be incredibly tough, right,
• 25:41
  Speaker 4: like three tests in South Africa. Remember when the All
• 25:44
  Speaker 4: Blacks won their first series in ninety six, What a
• 25:46
  Speaker 4: big deal that was. So yeah, that's a hell of
• 25:50
  Speaker 4: a challenge. So it won't be easy. It won't be easy,
• 25:54
  Speaker 4: but if I put it really succinctly, winning is how
• 25:57
  Speaker 4: we measure success. Everything else flows from that.
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: It's been obviously a tough few years for New Zealand
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: in terms of trophies. What do you think of the
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: key things that New Zealand rugby needs to get right
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: to The Black fans are standing on top of the podium.
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: The All Black Sevens winning the Olympic medals. Black Fan
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: sevens are different conversation because they just win for fun.
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: But for the All Bass is there are a key
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: one or two things that all those teams need to
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: do or the pathways need to be right to get
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: these teams where they need to be.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's alignment right.
• 26:27
  Speaker 4: So in each of those teams that you talked about,
• 26:29
  Speaker 4: they all sit at the at the top of a system, right,
• 26:32
  Speaker 4: they don't sit in isolation, and that includes the sevens teams.
• 26:34
  Speaker 4: So it's about having systems alignment first and foremost en
• 26:38
  Speaker 4: suuring that everything is as channeling players through in the
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: right shape to contribute to those things. Don Tricka, who's
• 26:44
  Speaker 4: coming back and November, said his job is to ensure
• 26:47
  Speaker 4: that that the system is producing the players the coaches
• 26:50
  Speaker 4: want to pick.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: Beyond that, it's it's about making good choices and good decisions. Right.
• 26:57
  Speaker 4: I'm sure we've got the right people in the right
• 26:59
  Speaker 4: roles doing the right things. We don't have unlimited resources,
• 27:05
  Speaker 4: so that you know that means that we have to
• 27:06
  Speaker 4: make choices, and we have to make the right choice
• 27:08
  Speaker 4: to enable the teams.
• 27:09
  Speaker 5: To win those systems in terms of producing the players.
• 27:13
  Speaker 5: And then Don Trick are coming back, and we touched
• 27:15
  Speaker 5: on the retention of that middle tier and the professional realm.
• 27:19
  Speaker 5: But how fast is the competition, particularly among male boys
• 27:26
  Speaker 5: in the first fifteen elements. I think I heard recently
• 27:30
  Speaker 5: that sink Kent's five of their first fifteen of signed
• 27:33
  Speaker 5: for the league. And then you've got basketball and league
• 27:35
  Speaker 5: also target players a lot younger, which is a moral
• 27:40
  Speaker 5: question to a degree, how challenging is that space to
• 27:45
  Speaker 5: bring those not only produce the players, but then to
• 27:47
  Speaker 5: hold on to them.
• 27:49
  Speaker 4: It is challenging. I won't hide from that. It's challenging
• 27:54
  Speaker 4: to keep the best talent engaged in rugby and wanting
• 27:58
  Speaker 4: to go through a rugby pathway. Kids have a lot
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: of options these days, right, and it's not just other
• 28:03
  Speaker 4: over ball options. It's basketball, as you say, rowing all
• 28:06
  Speaker 4: sorts of things right, but not mentioned sport work and
• 28:10
  Speaker 4: study everything else.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: So it's tough.
• 28:13
  Speaker 4: We look and we don't pretend everything's rosy and that
• 28:16
  Speaker 4: we've got everything right. So one of the big pieces
• 28:18
  Speaker 4: that we did a couple of years ago was our
• 28:19
  Speaker 4: Pathways and Competition's Review for men, and that identified that actually,
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: we haven't got the proposition quite right for young men
• 28:27
  Speaker 4: in our game in that when they are sitting down
• 28:30
  Speaker 4: at high school and someone sits in front of them,
• 28:32
  Speaker 4: be that well, we're sitting here in Orkansas, it's someone
• 28:35
  Speaker 4: from Auckland and someone from the Blues. That they're not
• 28:37
  Speaker 4: necessarily hearing exactly the same message from both of them,
• 28:40
  Speaker 4: and they don't see a clear line of sight through
• 28:42
  Speaker 4: Auckland Rugby to the Blues, to the All Blacks or
• 28:45
  Speaker 4: to whatever fulfilling their dreams and potential looks like. So
• 28:49
  Speaker 4: that's something we've been working on and we've done a
• 28:52
  Speaker 4: lot of work over the last eighty months about realigning
• 28:54
  Speaker 4: our pathway, so getting real clarity on what's the remed
• 28:57
  Speaker 4: of provincial unions. Everything under twenty SIT's with provincial unions.
• 29:00
  Speaker 4: Now what's the remed of superclubs. One of the things
• 29:03
  Speaker 4: that review pointed out is that the majority of Super
• 29:06
  Speaker 4: rugby players eight percent and Super AE players do not
• 29:08
  Speaker 4: get meaning four minutes in super rugby until they're twenty
• 29:10
  Speaker 4: four years old, So there's a gap from age twenty
• 29:12
  Speaker 4: to twenty four where they're not able to play age
• 29:16
  Speaker 4: grade rugby. They've typically been through a provincial union academy
• 29:19
  Speaker 4: because they go into that out of school and have
• 29:21
  Speaker 4: three years in it and they're kind of just waiting
• 29:26
  Speaker 4: for their time in super rugby, right. So we've addressed
• 29:28
  Speaker 4: that as well around the development programs that the super
• 29:31
  Speaker 4: clubs are running with the development comp for super teams
• 29:35
  Speaker 4: at the early part of the year to give those
• 29:36
  Speaker 4: players meaningful minutes until they get to the point where
• 29:40
  Speaker 4: they're going to get those minutes at Super rugby. So
• 29:42
  Speaker 4: we're doing a lot of work to get our Yeah,
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: and again and probably everyone says to here, but we're
• 29:46
  Speaker 4: very much focused on our space and what we're doing.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: But it's competitive right, So we've got to get that right.
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, And the confusion, I guess comes around. You know,
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: you mentioned the Auckland and the Blues competing, will talking
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: to the same player, you know with the NURL to
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: bring the NURL back in and again it's a Melbourne
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: Storm scout, it's a manly scout. It's not a Queensland
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: Cup Scout or a new are the top teams so
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: the players can can see pathways? How do you present
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: that pathway too? Is the NBC, but the Blues and
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: then potentially the All Blacks be said to an emerging.
• 30:18
  Speaker 4: Well and that's exactly that's exactly what the report told us,
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: is that all the reviewers that we need to do
• 30:23
  Speaker 4: a better job at it. So that's about ideally having
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: either one person meeting with them or or having you know,
• 30:29
  Speaker 4: if you've got in that concept of provincial and a superperson,
• 30:31
  Speaker 4: having both of them presenting at the same time painting
• 30:34
  Speaker 4: the same picture. Clear line of site right, because when
• 30:36
  Speaker 4: you look at it, and look, I'll be honest, when
• 30:38
  Speaker 4: you look at the NRL, it's really easy to paint
• 30:41
  Speaker 4: a direct line of site through and so our dream right,
• 30:43
  Speaker 4: which doesn't always doesn't always play out right, but we
• 30:46
  Speaker 4: need to be better at actually portraying that clear line
• 30:49
  Speaker 4: site and delivering on it. And one of the things
• 30:51
  Speaker 4: that we focus on again, I'll keep coming back to
• 30:53
  Speaker 4: this in our pathways, and we think it is a
• 30:55
  Speaker 4: big point of difference is we are very focused on
• 30:57
  Speaker 4: developing the person, not just the player, so that people
• 31:01
  Speaker 4: that come through a rugby pathway they'll develop an alternative
• 31:05
  Speaker 4: career because at some point they're going to need that.
• 31:07
  Speaker 4: They'll be they'll grow people, they'll get better as rugby players,
• 31:11
  Speaker 4: but they'll actually it'll be better for them as a
• 31:13
  Speaker 4: holistic person.
• 31:14
  Speaker 5: We've talked a lot about the professional realm. You spend
• 31:18
  Speaker 5: a long time managing the community game. I know you're
• 31:20
  Speaker 5: passionate about that. I spend a lot of time at
• 31:23
  Speaker 5: the grassroots as well. What's your view on the layer
• 31:26
  Speaker 5: of the land there. I guess this talk about you
• 31:29
  Speaker 5: know a lot of clubs amalgamating challenges for front rowers.
• 31:33
  Speaker 5: We've talked about the breadth of options out there for
• 31:36
  Speaker 5: young people, how do we ensure the grassroots survive? And
• 31:41
  Speaker 5: what's your view of the current landscape.
• 31:44
  Speaker 4: So it's okay, and I don't want to pretend that
• 31:47
  Speaker 4: it's excellent, because anyone that's involved in the community game
• 31:51
  Speaker 4: will know from their own experiences that there are issues
• 31:53
  Speaker 4: and there our challenges, but there are things that we
• 31:58
  Speaker 4: really think are important marketers of the health of the
• 32:00
  Speaker 4: game at community level. One is junior participation. So we've
• 32:04
  Speaker 4: still got really strong junior participation. I check the stats
• 32:06
  Speaker 4: on the weekend and we're currently sitting nine thousand junior players,
• 32:10
  Speaker 4: up on last year. Been a bit of a dip
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: last year, but we're actually comparable with twenty four and
• 32:15
  Speaker 4: up on twenty three, so that's okay. But we've got
• 32:19
  Speaker 4: ensure that those kids are having great experiences in rugby
• 32:22
  Speaker 4: that they want to come back, maybe they boys or girls.
• 32:25
  Speaker 4: Teenage registrations are also up on last year, so that's okay.
• 32:29
  Speaker 4: And again, sitting here in Ukland, I know that in
• 32:32
  Speaker 4: Auckland Secondary School rugby they've got more teams this year
• 32:34
  Speaker 4: than they had last year, so it's not just playing
• 32:36
  Speaker 4: numbers as team numbers, which is really important. Market senior
• 32:41
  Speaker 4: means ruby is down. Senior women's rugby a is still
• 32:43
  Speaker 4: going from strength to strength. The women's game just keeps growing,
• 32:45
  Speaker 4: which is awesome. The senior means rugby. You know, that's
• 32:49
  Speaker 4: slightly down and it's something we are concerned about, is
• 32:52
  Speaker 4: the health of rugby clubs and senior grades. Because you're
• 32:55
  Speaker 4: right you talk about earlier front rollers, you know, and
• 32:57
  Speaker 4: acdotally you only have to go to one club game,
• 32:59
  Speaker 4: one senior men's game. I know that that's a challenge.
• 33:02
  Speaker 4: So bringing more front rollers through, but also having more
• 33:06
  Speaker 4: variants of the game, right, the game's really important for that,
• 33:09
  Speaker 4: So enabling games to happen if there aren't front rowers,
• 33:12
  Speaker 4: and then it's a matter of working with the provincial
• 33:14
  Speaker 4: reunions and the community game because to solve these because
• 33:18
  Speaker 4: we can't solve everything, right, we can't. It's easy to
• 33:20
  Speaker 4: point into say what are you guys doing about it?
• 33:22
  Speaker 4: But some of those things are not things that we
• 33:23
  Speaker 4: can or should be solving, right. There are things at
• 33:25
  Speaker 4: our system the people at the coal face need to solve.
• 33:29
  Speaker 4: And if you go around the country, there will be
• 33:32
  Speaker 4: common challenges around the country, but the context will be
• 33:35
  Speaker 4: different everywhey go. You know, the challenge in the metropolitan
• 33:37
  Speaker 4: city like Auckland or Wellington very different to the context
• 33:41
  Speaker 4: in Hawk's Bay or Manutu or South. So that the
• 33:44
  Speaker 4: answers have to reside within within those places and within
• 33:48
  Speaker 4: their own communities as well, and we will walk alongside them.
• 33:51
  Speaker 4: We will invest in them to do that, and one
• 33:53
  Speaker 4: of the things we're fortunate about is that we have
• 33:55
  Speaker 4: some resources so we can apply those. I come back
• 33:58
  Speaker 4: to making choices and making the right choices with those resources.
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: I just want to go back to the pathways in
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: the New Zealand under twenties and there's always a bit
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: of consternation whether the results are good or bad. Yeah,
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: I watched that this year. I was actually planting the
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: surprise by the way they played against South Africa. I
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: don't know what your view is, but I think we
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: often put a lot of stock in New Zealand under
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: twenties when this is going to be the last time
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: they're playing as an age group cohort. But it is
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: obviously important for us bringing players through. Do you worry
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: about the results that they've had in recent years and
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: where that will affect Super Rugby and the All Blacks
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: and the years to come.
• 34:32
  Speaker 4: No, I don't, because every team that we put out
• 34:36
  Speaker 4: we want to win, but winning isn't the most important
• 34:40
  Speaker 4: thing for every team we put out, and so the
• 34:42
  Speaker 4: under twenty is a good example of the team we're
• 34:44
  Speaker 4: actually what what what we measure is how the players
• 34:49
  Speaker 4: perform in that environment, how they progress from when they
• 34:51
  Speaker 4: enter that environment to when they leave it, how they
• 34:53
  Speaker 4: progress through and into super rugby. So what's the conversion
• 34:56
  Speaker 4: rate from under twenties to super rugby? And we know
• 34:59
  Speaker 4: that it also exposes them to tournament play, to playing
• 35:02
  Speaker 4: against teams from the Northern Hemisphere and from other you know,
• 35:06
  Speaker 4: or from other other countries, and again this narrative them
• 35:10
  Speaker 4: and we tend to encounter this narrative thing about rugby
• 35:12
  Speaker 4: quite regularly, which is like, hey, that's not that team's
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: not going very well.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: We can't beat South Africa. You know.
• 35:17
  Speaker 4: In the last four times they are under twenties have
• 35:19
  Speaker 4: played South Africa, we've only lost to them once and
• 35:21
  Speaker 4: we've drawn twice. So it's actually really close. We've beaten
• 35:24
  Speaker 4: the Ireland more times than we've we've lost to them
• 35:26
  Speaker 4: in recent years, so you know, the Islands and other
• 35:28
  Speaker 4: country everyone holds up as a bastion of player development
• 35:32
  Speaker 4: in the Northern Hemisphere. Well, a track record against theems positive.
• 35:35
  Speaker 4: So so it's not you know, I just you know,
• 35:39
  Speaker 4: I'm really key to continue to challenge that narrative or
• 35:41
  Speaker 4: that perception of our hat it's not working. But actually,
• 35:44
  Speaker 4: even if we had lost against all those teams every
• 35:46
  Speaker 4: time we've played them, if those other things were playing out,
• 35:48
  Speaker 4: we're producing better super rugby players who go on to
• 35:50
  Speaker 4: be better all blacks and the all Blacks are when
• 35:52
  Speaker 4: they were cups, then that program's working.
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: Everyone holds up South there for and what they've been
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: doing in recent times is it is a key success
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: and that they dropped to I think seventh in the world.
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: Severagan YouTube comment is about to correct me, but then
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: they've gone back any pathways seem to be set up rightly.
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: How big and how quickly can you make changes around that,
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: I guess in their programs?
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: In your program? Yeah, reasonably quickly.
• 36:14
  Speaker 4: I mean, we are a big system, so at times
• 36:16
  Speaker 4: it feels like you're trying to turn the Titanic around.
• 36:18
  Speaker 4: But we're a small country and we're pretty connected. So yeah,
• 36:22
  Speaker 4: if we all agree in the line, and that's why
• 36:24
  Speaker 4: I said alignments so important earlier, if we all agree
• 36:27
  Speaker 4: on the line, then we can be pretty agile and
• 36:29
  Speaker 4: we can move pretty quickly. And again, just kind to
• 36:31
  Speaker 4: be so careful to let you compare apples with apples. Right,
• 36:34
  Speaker 4: So South Africa is so different in New Zealand, right, Like,
• 36:37
  Speaker 4: their participation base is absolutely booming because people of all
• 36:44
  Speaker 4: colors are playing the game now and the game's been democratized,
• 36:47
  Speaker 4: if you want to call it that. They've got the
• 36:49
  Speaker 4: Varsity Cup there, which is another tier between the car
• 36:52
  Speaker 4: between school and the Curry Cup and Super Rugby. They
• 36:56
  Speaker 4: play in a different you know, they're playing different competitions,
• 36:58
  Speaker 4: they played different times of the year, so just got
• 37:01
  Speaker 4: to be careful not to compare things that are quite different.
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: Just a couple of final questions. Yeah, so I forget.
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: I've talked a bit about playing Windows Rugby Championship potentially
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: at the start of the year. You've talked about being
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: more open maybe things or changing in terms of administration.
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: Is that something that could potentially come back again, The
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: aligning the international windows.
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: It could do.
• 37:21
  Speaker 4: It's something that's been talked about at World Rugby a
• 37:23
  Speaker 4: lot and amongst the unions, the you know, there's a
• 37:27
  Speaker 4: bit of momentum in the Northern Hemisphere about aligning the
• 37:29
  Speaker 4: global men's calendar and raally what that means is the
• 37:33
  Speaker 4: Southern Hemisphere falling into line with the Northern Hemisphere adventure.
• 37:37
  Speaker 4: So I'm not sure how yeah, how much that means
• 37:39
  Speaker 4: it's a global calendar as the Northern Hemisphere calendar. But
• 37:42
  Speaker 4: South Africa have already done that right because the professional
• 37:45
  Speaker 4: teams are playing in the North, they now play their
• 37:47
  Speaker 4: Curry Cup over the summer months and it's actually worked
• 37:51
  Speaker 4: for them, So that's been interesting to observe. What I
• 37:55
  Speaker 4: would say is that again, we're always really aware of
• 38:00
  Speaker 4: the potential implications of any change and what that would
• 38:03
  Speaker 4: mean for us, and so we just want to be
• 38:06
  Speaker 4: in those conversations as they're happening, don't I don't sense
• 38:09
  Speaker 4: that change is imminent in that regard, And again it's
• 38:13
  Speaker 4: a bit like the Anzact bled it's in fact it's
• 38:15
  Speaker 4: different again, but it's been it's been talked about so
• 38:17
  Speaker 4: many times in the past that nothing's changed. So yeah,
• 38:21
  Speaker 4: well we'll just we'll just watch that space and make
• 38:23
  Speaker 4: sure we're in the tent when the conversations are happening.
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: We opened it up for a couple of listener questions.
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: We've picked a couple.
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: Jimmy of Auckland says, are there any cost reductions measures
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: in place to reduce the expenditure outside of players things
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: like hotels. I guess with the way the world is
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: at the moment, is that you know costs are obviously rising.
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: Are you looking at budgets and hotels and airlines and
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: things like that.
• 38:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah, we are. We're always looking at that. Again, we
• 38:48
  Speaker 4: don't want to We don't want to be knee jerk
• 38:50
  Speaker 4: and reacting to what's happening currently. But cost to travel
• 38:54
  Speaker 4: is hurting us, like it's hurting anyone that conducts a
• 38:57
  Speaker 4: business that requires large numbers of people traveling around the world.
• 39:01
  Speaker 4: So we're certainly tracking that. Our commitment has been as
• 39:05
  Speaker 4: an organization that we won't we won't spend any more
• 39:07
  Speaker 4: on budget we travel to at the end of the year.
• 39:09
  Speaker 4: So that's going to mean working smarter or traveling less.
• 39:13
  Speaker 4: But for our teams, it's really hard to pull back
• 39:15
  Speaker 4: on that. They've got to get to where they've got
• 39:18
  Speaker 4: to play and what we have. We always look for
• 39:21
  Speaker 4: the best deals and negotiate the best deals we can
• 39:23
  Speaker 4: around accommodation and food everything, but at the end of
• 39:28
  Speaker 4: the day, these things are a cost of doing business
• 39:30
  Speaker 4: for us, and we have to set our teams up
• 39:32
  Speaker 4: to perform as well, So we've just got to be
• 39:35
  Speaker 4: careful that we don't we don't compromise ourselves by making
• 39:39
  Speaker 4: short term decisions.
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: And our Aliston James ewell And said he read the
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: Impact Review stories last year and your comments in the
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: future of the NPC. He said, it's encouraging to see
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: confirmation the NBC remains a core part of the rugby system,
• 39:49
  Speaker 3: but it sounds like there's still a fair bit of
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: uncertainty around what the practice looks like in the next
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: few years. So he's got what is New Zealand Rugby's
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: current view on the structure of the NPC.
• 39:59
  Speaker 4: UH, That's that's a really good question, right, and it's
• 40:01
  Speaker 4: good that he's read the he's read the commentary on
• 40:04
  Speaker 4: that review. I mean, we put a lot of In fact,
• 40:06
  Speaker 4: we've put almost all of the recommendations into place now
• 40:09
  Speaker 4: and we are working through the remaining ones that are outstanding.
• 40:12
  Speaker 4: So you know, if you understand what the review recommends,
• 40:16
  Speaker 4: that's exactly where what we're moving to, and we're moving to
• 40:18
  Speaker 4: that quite quickly. In terms of the NPC, we're not
• 40:21
  Speaker 4: we're not contemplating any change to that. You know, the
• 40:23
  Speaker 4: competition model at the moment. It's a good competition. It's
• 40:27
  Speaker 4: sustainable at the moment. So yeah, we know, we don't
• 40:30
  Speaker 4: we don't see any change to that at the moment.
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: Is it played in the right time of the year
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: or with that Club Rugby.
• 40:36
  Speaker 4: That's right, it's played at the right time of the
• 40:37
  Speaker 4: year because it follows Club Rugby, it proceeds Super Rugby.
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 40:42
  Speaker 4: The challenge with the All Blacks now is know international
• 40:45
  Speaker 4: rugby has played across such a large part of the
• 40:47
  Speaker 4: year that it doesn't really matter we put the MPC
• 40:49
  Speaker 4: in relation to that, but in terms of our system
• 40:52
  Speaker 4: Club Rugby, MPC, Super Rugby, it does work.
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: Just finally for me, what are your priorities over so
• 40:57
  Speaker 3: the next twelve months if we're sitting here in twelve
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: months time reviewing your first year in charge, what are
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: you looking at to implement or get right out of
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: the next next year a year or so?
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 41:06
  Speaker 4: So, firstly, the All Blacks and the Black fans are winning.
• 41:10
  Speaker 4: Our team with our teams and black are winning, but
• 41:12
  Speaker 4: in particular the All Blacks and the Black fans because
• 41:14
  Speaker 4: they just drive so much of the rest of the business.
• 41:18
  Speaker 4: Our community game is in good heart and you know
• 41:20
  Speaker 4: there are a number of different ways that you might
• 41:22
  Speaker 4: measure that, but I would like to think that we
• 41:24
  Speaker 4: are continuing to see strong growth in junior participation, that
• 41:27
  Speaker 4: we're continuing to build on women and girls participation in
• 41:31
  Speaker 4: the game, and that we're stabilizing the senior club rugby
• 41:35
  Speaker 4: thing right, Like, I think the world has changed so
• 41:39
  Speaker 4: much and the context for senior club rugby has changed
• 41:42
  Speaker 4: so much that we've got to be careful. We have
• 41:44
  Speaker 4: rose tinged lenses around what that looks like. But if
• 41:46
  Speaker 4: we can stabilize that, get to a point where that
• 41:49
  Speaker 4: has its place and it's working for everyone, that would
• 41:51
  Speaker 4: be a good outcome. Probably a bit too much to
• 41:54
  Speaker 4: aim for in twelve months, but it certainly my time
• 41:56
  Speaker 4: in the role. And then commercially, right, we've just got
• 41:58
  Speaker 4: to keep growing our value because we're a small country
• 42:01
  Speaker 4: at the bottom of the world. We love the game.
• 42:05
  Speaker 4: There are a lot of people involved in the game.
• 42:07
  Speaker 4: It costs a lot of made for going and the
• 42:09
  Speaker 4: more money we can generate, then the more money we
• 42:12
  Speaker 4: can invest in the game.
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: Steve, appreciate your time on rag gulright, look forward to
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: catching up again soon.
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: Thanks Eliott for more from news Talk sed B listen
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: live on air or online, and keep our shows with
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: you wherever you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio