Latest / The Tight Curls Project / Curls in Motion, Medicine in Mind

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Curls in Motion, Medicine in Mind · The Tight Curls Project

• 0:07
  Hello and welcome to the Tight Curls Project podcast.
• 0:09
  I'm very excited to have a guest today who is someone who's definitely a hair inspiration to me and just an inspiration in life.
• 0:15
  And I'm so excited to have her because you're going to get a lot from this conversation.
• 0:19
  she's so interesting in her work and how she carries herself.
• 0:23
  I know it will be a great conversation.
• 0:25
  So we have Chemtai Mungo and she's the assistant professor of obstetrics and gynecology at University of North Carolina in Chapel Hill.
• 0:33
  And so we're so excited to have you here today, Chemtai.
• 0:37
  Thanks, Shadia.
• 0:38
  Thank you for having me.
• 0:39
  And really awesome to be part of this show that I've kind of witnessed you kind of work at, put together over the last few months to maybe even years.
• 0:50
  Yeah.
• 0:51
  Thanks for having me.
• 0:52
  Yes, yes.
• 0:54
  So excited to bring you in this world, because we haven't really talked that much about hair.
• 0:59
  So that's going to be fun.
• 1:01
  Yeah.
• 1:01
  Looking forward to it.
• 1:02
  Looking forward to it.
• 1:04
  Wonderful.
• 1:05
  So to get started, the first question we like to ask is, what are you loving right now?
• 1:10
  What is something that is just bringing you joy?
• 1:13
  Oh, that's a good one.
• 1:15
  What's bringing me joy right now?
• 1:18
  I just turned 40, so I'm excited about this next phase of life.
• 1:26
  And I'm really excited right now about self-care and exercise.
• 1:34
  I love the gym and I've been doing a lot of physical therapy to rehab.
• 1:41
  kind of injuries with the goal of really embracing sort of the athletic aspects of me in the second half.
• 1:49
  You know, I love like endurance sports and cycling.
• 1:53
  I'm looking forward to doing my first uh century, which is a hundred mile cycling ride in the next six months.
• 2:00
  So just putting in the reps uh in the gym and uh seeing that kind of growth and getting stronger is something that I'm really.
• 2:10
  excited about right now.
• 2:12
  I love that you're very inspirational.
• 2:15
  I will tell the story of how when we first met, you invited me on a hike and I was like, I like to hike, you know, thinking three, four miles.
• 2:21
  I looked up this hike, it was 11 miles and I said, I'm not ready for that.
• 2:26
  So I'll work to get on that level, even though you're going up and and up and to the right with your fitness, that's still, but I love that you're, really just trying new things and
• 2:37
  growing as a, as you, know.
• 2:40
  get older, still getting stronger and really try new things.
• 2:43
  So that's amazing.
• 2:44
  We'll talk a little bit about how that, how your hair routine fits into that active lifestyle as well.
• 2:51
  Absolutely.
• 2:52
  Big deal for us, for sure.
• 2:54
  It is.
• 2:55
  So let's start with you as a little kid.
• 3:00
  So where did you grow up and ah what did you think about hair when you're, you know, school aged?
• 3:05
  What was, what were you hearing and what did you think about your hair when you're a little kid?
• 3:11
  So I grew up in Kenya in East Africa and I went to boarding school when I was young.
• 3:20
  So the schooling system was sort of modeled after the British system where people went to boarding school.
• 3:27
  it was sort of a practical decision in a sense because people lived in small towns and the schools were in the city.
• 3:35
  there was no school bus that would come through every little village with kids.
• 3:41
  So I went to boarding school young, like fifth grade-ish, which is really fun.
• 3:48
  So, you know, what do I think about hair?
• 3:51
  So let's see.
• 3:52
  One had to learn how to being in boarding school, you didn't have all the time to like wake up and comb your hair and do whatever.
• 4:00
  So we had to be often, my hair was often plated.
• 4:03
  So even cornrows ah and then later on in braids, but...
• 4:08
  ah
• 4:09
  As a young kid, was always like, what style can my hair be in that can last four, six weeks of very low maintenance?
• 4:19
  Yeah.
• 4:22
  The morning routine was not one that had time to do a lot.
• 4:26
  ah
• 4:29
  as a fifth grader, like how much hair can you take it down?
• 4:31
  Like one skill, two time?
• 4:33
  Like that would be a lot to be coordinating.
• 4:36
  It was basically just like getting your hair braided.
• 4:39
  We were actually working cornrows.
• 4:42
  Um, and I alternated between that.
• 4:44
  And then when I was a little younger, at some point, my mom decided that I would have like short hair and like, you know, I had, think you have a picture of me with basically really
• 4:55
  short hair.
• 4:56
  Yes.
• 4:58
  Take a look at that picture.
• 4:59
  It is so cute.
• 5:01
  Oh, my goodness.
• 5:02
  I just love this.
• 5:04
  Would love for you to share just, you know, where you were when that happened.
• 5:09
  Yeah, so this is little you and you've got a dress on with a very cute sweater and your high socks.
• 5:18
  And maybe are those like loafers or moccasins?
• 5:20
  Ooh.
• 5:21
  They are what we would call moccasins for sure.
• 5:25
  I haven't heard that word in a long time.
• 5:28
  That's what they look like and you're holding your hand of maybe, is that your brother?
• 5:32
  Yes, that's my little brother who, yes, I know.
• 5:35
  So that was the two of us.
• 5:37
  This is ah circa probably 92 or something.
• 5:43
  And we were in Capanguria, which is sort of my village home.
• 5:49
  uh And I think there was a party and it was just dusk and we were tied in one.
• 5:55
  I it was like, come take a picture of my brother falling asleep.
• 6:01
  Yeah, his eyes are closed.
• 6:03
  He's like, oh, okay.
• 6:04
  He's like, that's my bedtime.
• 6:08
  Yeah, so I have short cropped hair here.
• 6:12
  And this is probably the time when my mom was like, okay, can't, know, my mom had six kids.
• 6:20
  So doing hair for three girls, was a lot of hair at this point.
• 6:25
  You rocked it though.
• 6:26
  It looks so cute.
• 6:27
  Do you remember if you liked it or did you care at that time or?
• 6:31
  easy.
• 6:33
  It was easy.
• 6:34
  I remember when my hair was first cut, I was a bit sad to kind of lose the hair I had.
• 6:44
  But then once I got used to it, it was quite easy.
• 6:48
  I'm still very much for convenience, even as an adult, but even as a seven-year-old, that was the case.
• 6:55
  So it was easy.
• 6:57
  Aw.
• 6:58
  And when you're in school, did you, were you picky?
• 7:00
  Who was braiding it?
• 7:01
  Would you go to a braider or is it your family?
• 7:04
  Yeah, we usually go to the salon before the school starts and then you would have breaks every four to six weeks.
• 7:13
  Okay.
• 7:14
  So usually you go to have somebody do it and it's always, I'm sure if you yourself ever got corners or have nieces and nephews, it's always like having to find the right person
• 7:27
  because if they're, have to be really gentle with your hair at the fronts.
• 7:33
  Yeah, that was always a little, it wasn't always fun if you didn't have the person with the easiest hands.
• 7:44
  Yeah, you're snatching too hard and a little rough, you're like, ah, your head's going back.
• 7:50
  And then you have a headache at the end.
• 7:52
  Yes.
• 7:52
  It's so tight because there's this tension between, you know, balance between having them nice and neat, but then feel tight also, then it's like pulling up the scalp.
• 8:03
  yeah, it wasn't always fun.
• 8:06
  That's like the process of it.
• 8:08
  Yeah, yeah.
• 8:10
  Did you, were you picking the styles that you had for braids or were you, did you have any like imagination or would you just go and they would give you something?
• 8:18
  Was that part of your self-expression by the time you got to like middle school?
• 8:22
  Typical, typical kind of British influence.
• 8:25
  They kill all creativity.
• 8:30
  Standard issue cut, standard issue braids style.
• 8:34
  There was a narrow range of creativity expression.
• 8:40
  So one had to wait till the holidays to express your creativity.
• 8:45
  Something around like, you know, how schools, there's a school of thought around maybe people, when people wear uniforms, like level out the playing field.
• 8:55
  So there was a similar school of thought around like hairstyles, like a similar hairstyle, like levels out the playing field.
• 9:01
  So it was always often
• 9:03
  a very simple hairdo.
• 9:05
  And then one would wait till the holidays, then you would bust out your braids in different colors.
• 9:12
  Okay.
• 9:13
  Creativity out.
• 9:15
  Did you have the colors and a special player for holidays?
• 9:19
  I Definitely um
• 9:48
  I mean, I feel like when I was in middle school and high school, I did not see a lot of people doing color, so I love that.
• 9:54
  You guys were ahead of the ball game and style innovation.
• 10:00
  For sure.
• 10:01
  That's great.
• 10:03
  So as you get older and you're just thinking about your hair, what were some of the thoughts that you had?
• 10:07
  Did you enjoy doing your hair?
• 10:09
  Was it still painful?
• 10:10
  Was it a big part of like your identity?
• 10:14
  Say maybe going in your teens to, as you went to college?
• 10:18
  So as I got older, um I wore braids a lot uh from kind of like my last year of high school into, so in high school Kenya you had to, you couldn't wear braids, had to wear your hair
• 10:35
  natural.
• 10:36
  could kind of do some- Really?
• 10:38
  Yeah, so you couldn't wear braids.
• 10:40
  This is like, this kind of very, you know, this-
• 10:45
  British modeled boarding schools had a lot of the rules So you had your hair natural.
• 10:53
  But then after high school, I kind of just lived in braids.
• 10:58
  I think in part because I was so used to having, it's kind of like the pendulum swung because I couldn't, for a long time I couldn't wear braids.
• 11:07
  And then I think the reality is having to take care of your hair and...
• 11:13
  learning, then, like now, know, my nieces and nephews, you know, there's YouTube, like, channels, etc.
• 11:21
  The podcasts about hair.
• 11:23
  um Back then there wasn't and there was always like harder than like, you know, if you didn't have access to a salon where you would go and somebody would do it, it would be
• 11:34
  hardest to do it yourself.
• 11:35
  um In parts like when I can, know, in boarding school, you don't have the products, etc.
• 11:42
  So when I had kind of control, I just gravitated towards braids in part because it was easy to do.
• 11:54
  Let me ask a question.
• 11:55
  When you said in high school you couldn't have braids, does that mean extensions?
• 11:58
  You couldn't have added hair or does it mean you could, could you braid your own hair and have cornrows or single braids?
• 12:05
  So we couldn't have extensions.
• 12:07
  That's kind what I meant by braids.
• 12:10
  then in high school, for whatever reason also, we couldn't do cornrows.
• 12:15
  We could only have our hair in a bun or just some elements of natural, calmed out style.
• 12:24
  Okay.
• 12:25
  interesting.
• 12:26
  Did you have relaxers?
• 12:27
  Was that popular?
• 12:29
  It was actually, my hair was relaxed starting probably around high school.
• 12:33
  I'd have it relaxed the beginning of the semester.
• 12:37
  ah And then I would kind of, know, some of it will grow, growth would come in and it would just kind of uh keep some elements of like a natural hairstyle.
• 12:49
  for example, if you, used to swim, not super competitively, but was I enjoyed.
• 12:57
  So then of course, like once you swim, relaxed hair is gone and you're like, I can know how to manage your Afro.
• 13:03
  There was always, you know, it like learning how to take care of your hair.
• 13:08
  in, like the, in, yeah, like without so much of like professional expertise in the ideal world, I would like go to the salon in the weekend and get it like deep moisturized.
• 13:19
  uh
• 13:23
  But you still swam, so you found a way to do it.
• 13:26
  Yeah.
• 13:27
  I found a way to do it and I was comfortable with it being free.
• 13:32
  Free, exactly.
• 13:34
  It came full circle.
• 13:36
  That's where I am now.
• 13:38
  And then, know, after in college, I had braids for a while.
• 13:43
  uh And in a sense, was easier with exercise because I washed it a lot often.
• 13:50
  uh And then at some point in college, I...
• 13:56
  then flipped and just embraced kind of the natural hair.
• 14:00
  I think there was definitely some elements of kind of societal messages around like, what is good hair?
• 14:10
  uh And as part of my coming to be uh in college, was like, I'm going to embrace my hair.
• 14:18
  in its natural state.
• 14:19
  So I did dreadlocks for a bit.
• 14:21
  I couldn't get a picture for that.
• 14:25
  And then I eventually was like, I'm going to do an afro.
• 14:28
  And so when I began med school, I had an afro, is what I've kept until now.
• 14:33
  I love that.
• 14:34
  So I want to ask you, you went to college in the U.S., correct?
• 14:39
  Yes.
• 14:39
  Okay.
• 14:40
  Do you think that you would have gone the same route if you were in Kenya?
• 14:45
  Was it where, do you feel like your family and your friends in Kenya were experiencing the same kind of thoughts about, you know, what is good hair that you were experiencing in the
• 14:55
  U.S.?
• 14:56
  Yeah, that's a good question.
• 14:58
  Definitely the pressure, the societal messaging is more intense in the US around kind of, know, the what is normal, quote unquote, and kind of, you know, the default to whiteness
• 15:18
  and long hair, et cetera, like silky hair, it's stronger in the US.
• 15:24
  Unfortunately, the messages permeate around the world, but in the US, you are more obviously a minority in a way that you are not growing up in Africa.
• 15:37
  So uh it's more prevalent.
• 15:40
  ah so then the interesting thing then is that that sort of evolution of my thinking around my hair made me more...
• 15:52
  quote unquote, radical.
• 15:53
  Because towards the end of college, I was like, I'm going to embrace my hair, especially if it's like embracing who I am.
• 15:59
  And I want to keep it natural in a way that when I'd be back in Canada, people are like, why haven't you made your hair?
• 16:06
  Okay, oh interesting.
• 16:08
  Okay, so it was seen as a statement in Kenya also.
• 16:11
  Exactly.
• 16:12
  So then it was like, because I think I was exposed to this idea that, oh you know, like your hair has to be straight to be, you know, ridiculous.
• 16:24
  And as part of my rejecting that, uh I rejected it in a way that it was more radical even for Kenya.
• 16:34
  That's fascinating.
• 16:36
  And what do you think spurred that on?
• 16:37
  Was that what you're reading?
• 16:38
  Was it people you're seeing with wearing natural hair out?
• 16:41
  Like, what do you think started to took that?
• 16:44
  Because a lot of people both recognize, you know, the historical ties to straight hair and that, you know, to say, I'm gonna do something totally different where of not people are
• 16:57
  doing that.
• 16:58
  You know, that's a different leap.
• 17:00
  So I'm just curious what kind of spurred you on.
• 17:03
  gave you that confidence and like that aspiration.
• 17:07
  what was, did you have things that were aspirational for you?
• 17:11
  So I went to UC Berkeley, I went to Berkeley for undergrad and very liberal place, very progressive.
• 17:18
  I was a science major.
• 17:21
  There was not that, I was actually a chemistry major at undergrad.
• 17:23
  There wasn't that many black women in like chemistry classes.
• 17:27
  So I think over time, about three or four years of being in college,
• 17:32
  I realized and came to embrace my differences.
• 17:35
  I always stood out in my chemistry classes or, you know, in sort of like, you know, math classes or even being permitted to speak, know, Black at Berkeley, there's just not that
• 17:48
  many of us.
• 17:48
  um And I think part of it was realizing that, you know, this
• 17:56
  This attempt at fitting in, can never be enough.
• 17:59
  oh Control yourself, just like control yourself that way.
• 18:06
  And it's silly.
• 18:08
  And then why would you give your power away?
• 18:10
  then, know, there's always, you know, if people want to see you differently, they will always be, they will always say something.
• 18:18
  that's, I think that's just realization over walking in different spaces where I was an only or I was different.
• 18:26
  um kind of endeared this idea that like, I'm going to embrace my differences.
• 18:33
  Because I uh think maybe I flirted a bit with trying to fit in and just realize, this is a losing battle.
• 18:41
  That's really interesting.
• 18:43
  I love that.
• 18:44
  Yeah, I'm pull up some of those pictures.
• 18:47
  I feel like ah even then you're still playing with color.
• 18:52
  So I see that like that self expression.
• 18:55
  Yeah, with the braids, you know, let's talk about this.
• 19:00
  Is this you in college?
• 19:01
  Yeah.
• 19:02
  With your friend?
• 19:02
  it's in college with friends.
• 19:05
  So I had a lot.
• 19:06
  So I rocked a lot of like blonde braids or kind of gold braids for a while.
• 19:12
  And that was, that was a signature look of mine.
• 19:14
  I wore a lot.
• 19:16
  ah
• 19:18
  So I'll just describe, they're kind of small, small, like pasture chin length, so a lob length of braids.
• 19:26
  And they're like a golden, ah golden, I would say amber color.
• 19:33
  Yeah, that's me like freshman or sophomore year with bright eyes.
• 19:43
  You're so cute.
• 19:44
  Yes.
• 19:46
  I'm here in college.
• 19:47
  These are some silky ones.
• 19:48
  I don't know those are called French braids maybe with the ends like this.
• 19:52
  And that was a little bob.
• 19:54
  Very cute.
• 19:55
  Yeah.
• 19:56
  And then you transitioned and this picture next with you with your fro and your doctor's coat, your stethoscope.
• 20:03
  Yeah, that was my first week in medical school.
• 20:07
  The mission had happened.
• 20:09
  So that was me and my pro forever after.
• 20:13
  Wow, okay, that's great.
• 20:15
  It really is your signature.
• 20:16
  And it's so distinct and it looks so great.
• 20:19
  um I just like how you do it and sometimes you'll style it in points, sometimes it'll be more round shaped in the colors.
• 20:26
  So you've played with color, you've continued to play with color.
• 20:28
  Is that something you enjoy?
• 20:30
  play the color.
• 20:31
  Yes, I'll do highlights every couple of months, usually with some elements of like gold or brown.
• 20:39
  And then, yeah, sometimes I'll kind of braid it and then open it in the morning.
• 20:44
  it's kind of has, it's a bit wavy, but, know, for really like the last, yeah, maybe 15 years.
• 20:54
  my hair do and I love it.
• 20:57
  Oh, I love it too for you.
• 20:59
  It's great.
• 21:00
  So tell us just how long does it take you to do your hair?
• 21:03
  And was it a process to figure out the products to use?
• 21:06
  And were you on your own doing this?
• 21:08
  How did you figure out what worked for you?
• 21:11
  Yeah, I will confess that I'm definitely the least savvy, one of the less hair savvy people.
• 21:19
  So one time when I come to visit your house, I have to look at all your hair stuff.
• 21:25
  yeah, products I use are a combination of kind of the place I've gone to get my hair done and the recommendations and then...
• 21:35
  some friends.
• 21:38
  My routine is pretty easy.
• 21:40
  basically use a moisturizer in the morning and then I wash about once a week and kind of do a deep moisturizer.
• 21:50
  uh I think most recently I've tried the new hairline that Beyonce has, which smells good.
• 22:01
  I like it.
• 22:01
  Yeah, and then I have this other product whose name skips my head right now.
• 22:07
  But I basically, I moisturize every morning.
• 22:12
  And then once a week, I'll do kind of the deep wash conditioning.
• 22:16
  And then, I use a really awesome hair butter called Dr.
• 22:22
  O's hair butter.
• 22:24
  It's a Black woman scientist.
• 22:26
  She's actually, she's a PhD.
• 22:29
  I met her at a fair and she makes this organic, really awesome oils for the scalp that I really like.
• 22:39
  So that I think is my main thing as well as some moisturizer.
• 22:43
  And when do you put it on your scalp?
• 22:44
  Like after you shower or I mean after you wash your hair?
• 22:47
  I wash it.
• 22:48
  I'll kind of like scalp my hair, um oil my scalp.
• 22:54
  Yeah.
• 22:55
  And then maybe once midweek.
• 22:57
  Okay.
• 22:58
  Moisturized.
• 22:59
  That's great.
• 23:00
  So it doesn't take you very long, but it's what I'm getting.
• 23:02
  Do you blow dry your hair?
• 23:04
  Do you dry your hair with that?
• 23:05
  Or you just let air dry?
• 23:06
  What do you do?
• 23:06
  So yeah, when I wash it, I'll just detangle it using a detangling cream and then I don't dry it.
• 23:14
  Yeah, I'm not just like I'm going to detangle comb it through and keep it in the afro.
• 23:19
  So not very long, which also fits with the time I have.
• 23:25
  Yes, yes, let's talk about it.
• 23:27
  So you started med school.
• 23:29
  You were in some very intense programs.
• 23:32
  You worked really hard.
• 23:34
  So it seems like you had your hair figured out before you got into this very intense program.
• 23:41
  What was that experience like for you?
• 23:43
  ah And taking, having time to take, even take care of your hair.
• 23:47
  For sure.
• 23:48
  So, you know, I was in med school for four years and then did a residency training in obstetrics and gynecology for another four years where you're working 80 hours a week.
• 23:59
  you just didn't 80.
• 24:04
  Sometimes you like go a little bit over.
• 24:07
  Uh, so you, yeah, you just didn't have a lot of time to, you know, it was kind of a necessity that you have to find a hair routine, which is why, you know, people's
• 24:17
  Many people in residency will also do braids.
• 24:20
  Okay, I was gonna ask you what other people, other black women were doing.
• 24:23
  I did braids that I knew of.
• 24:26
  So for me, was just like a simple afro, once a week wash, condition in the morning, doesn't take more than five or seven minutes every morning.
• 24:38
  when you're waking up, when you have to be at the hospital at 4.30 or 5 in the morning and you're sleeping at nine, every five minutes counts.
• 24:47
  That's time to sleep.
• 24:50
  So yeah, so, you know, like medical training is really rigorous and takes a long time.
• 24:56
  So, you know, when I came out on the other side about, I finished residency in 2018.
• 25:04
  On the other side, sorry.
• 25:06
  Oh my God, it's a dark tunnel.
• 25:10
  It's really fun.
• 25:12
  I you learn to become a surgeon, it's excellent, but it's rigorous.
• 25:17
  You don't have a lot time for anything else.
• 25:20
  So then, yeah, like in the last four five years, I kind of have more time to like have, you know, like a hair day go and just like have, you know, a deep wash and have somebody
• 25:30
  do like a two hour thing.
• 25:32
  In fact, also you have the time and the money.
• 25:35
  ah But important to have a practical aspect of dealing, managing one's hair during that training.
• 25:43
  Yeah, I'm just thinking even if you had braids, you still would have to be able to schedule a braid appointment and have six, eight hours, because you still gotta wash and
• 25:51
  detangle your hair and blow dry it before you go get braids.
• 25:54
  which is why also braids were, yeah, cause you know, you basically have one whole weekend off maybe every six weeks.
• 26:02
  yeah, so you know, like, know, when you do braids, it's like a whole day.
• 26:06
  So it's gonna choose carefully how you spend your whole
• 26:12
  Your free day, yeah.
• 26:13
  Okay.
• 26:14
  oh
• 26:17
  It's intense.
• 26:19
  It's like medical training is intense.
• 26:21
  So like being practical was key for all of us.
• 26:25
  Yeah.
• 26:26
  And I think it's pretty amazing that you have figured that out and it works for that kind of lifestyle, but also for all your activity with the sports and cycling.
• 26:35
  Um, so you're really someone who has figured out your hair to fit your life.
• 26:42
  Would you do...
• 26:42
  How do you think about your hair now?
• 26:44
  And as you think about, you know, that part of your identity, that part of your body, your wellness and your care, how do you think about your hair?
• 26:52
  Yeah.
• 26:53
  Definitely it's really important for me that it fits into my life.
• 26:57
  ah So I basically exercise seven days a week.
• 27:01
  ah I cycle and I'm like sweaty three days a week.
• 27:05
  I love to go out and hike and be outside.
• 27:09
  ah So just hair that's very practical is key.
• 27:13
  ah I've always been like a trailblazer and I embrace being
• 27:22
  different and oh not fitting into the norm.
• 27:30
  Certainly, as a black woman in medicine and as a professor, as a scientist, my hair stands out because most people in scientific conferences don't look like me, don't have hair like
• 27:43
  me, and it's important for me that it's part of my identity.
• 27:47
  There is definitely, and I respect
• 27:50
  everybody's decisions of how they kind of keep their hair.
• 27:54
  there's definitely, um, you know, can be some maybe pressures to conform, you know, it's like, you already stand out already.
• 28:05
  Your hair stand out too much.
• 28:07
  But, um, but for me, it is part of being an apologetic and who I am.
• 28:12
  Um, and, and just, you know, it feels good to present my whole self, uh, and, just have people.
• 28:19
  of adjust.
• 28:20
  That is beautiful.
• 28:21
  You said unapologetic for who you are.
• 28:23
  And how people adjust instead of us adjusting or you adjusting.
• 28:30
  That's amazing.
• 28:30
  Do you get a lot of comments or feedback on your hair from different folks, good or bad?
• 28:37
  I'm just curious.
• 28:38
  Yeah, certainly I definitely do.
• 28:41
  definitely do.
• 28:42
  Yeah, folks would be like, oh, great hair.
• 28:43
  How do you do your hair, et cetera.
• 28:45
  I think a couple of years, it's been a while, thankfully, since somebody was like, can I touch your hair?
• 28:50
  Which is like, you can't.
• 28:54
  But yeah, I love it and I love, think when I was younger, I didn't appreciate as many of us when you were younger, you're more prone.
• 29:04
  to being swayed by opinions.
• 29:06
  ah So when I was younger, didn't, you know, wasn't always comfortable in my skin or just like how my hair looked, you know, the hair skin.
• 29:16
  Just speak.
• 29:17
  So now it's just great to be able to like be the adult version of me who just like loves it.
• 29:24
  um And yeah, and just let other people adjust.
• 29:28
  That makes my heart so happy.
• 29:31
  I just love that, because that is not the norm.
• 29:33
  You are a trailblazer in multiple ways.
• 29:36
  So that's something I wanted to talk to you about, because I'm like, it's very...
• 29:39
  Your hair is very distinct.
• 29:41
  It's beautiful.
• 29:42
  uh But I just imagine that there people...
• 29:45
  I have people who said, in places where I've also worked in a lot of primarily white places, where people would say stuff to me about hair.
• 29:52
  So I imagine you've had those encounters and there can feel like this pressure.
• 29:56
  I've heard, had that like, you should change your hair for your interview, change it for this.
• 30:00
  And there's, and I'm not saying that everybody has the privilege to be in a place where they don't have to think about that.
• 30:07
  But, you know, that's amazing that you have been thoughtful and it works for you.
• 30:15
  You're working your life around it.
• 30:16
  And that is, it is political, right?
• 30:18
  ah
• 30:20
  Just think of all that time if you're trying to schedule your relaxers or if you're trying to schedule someone else to do your hair and you can't cycle.
• 30:27
  uh me, my hair won't fit in a helmet, so that's a problem.
• 30:32
  This hair won't fit in a helmet because I already have a big head.
• 30:37
  We should design helmets for people with, you know, afros That's exactly.
• 30:42
  You know?
• 30:43
  Yeah.
• 30:44
  So that is also, yeah.
• 30:46
  That's a good point.
• 30:47
  care, uh which is why I love what you're doing and really respect it.
• 30:57
  my work as a scientist is to improve the lives of women through cancer prevention.
• 31:03
  But it's really all about equity and making sure that people have equal opportunity at a wholesome life in all different ways.
• 31:15
  But I also admire what you do because you are centering, uh like black hair should have the highest quality of evidence and thought behind it and products and et cetera, like in
• 31:27
  ways that it's often an afterthought.
• 31:31
  And even uh for most people when you're looking for products, you have to work harder to find products that fit one's hair.
• 31:42
  And it is definitely...
• 31:44
  political and it's for me it's a quality of life where like, you if I didn't have cycling and being at the gym often, like, you know, my quality of life would be impeded.
• 31:53
  like, my hair needs to fit into my quality of life and that should be accessible to everybody.
• 32:00
  I agree.
• 32:00
  Thank you.
• 32:01
  Yeah.
• 32:02
  So do you want to talk a little bit about the work that you do?
• 32:05
  You said you work with women.
• 32:07
  Yeah, yeah.
• 32:08
  So I'm a gynecologist and I'm a researcher.
• 32:10
  So I see, I deliver babies and take care of women.
• 32:14
  I love kiddos and you know, I wish they didn't come between the hours of midnight and 5 a.m.
• 32:22
  Like when they have to come at three in the morning, that's like.
• 32:25
  them a little more when they come, you know, after eight.
• 32:29
  Yeah, 8 or 9 PM or earlier.
• 32:34
  And then more importantly, I do research on cervical cancer prevention.
• 32:37
  So improving how we prevent cervical cancer through HPV vaccination and how we treat women with early signs of cancer, specifically in geographies that have low resources, both in
• 32:52
  rural North Carolina, rural parts of the US, for example.
• 32:56
  You look at the map of the US, ah black women, Latina women more likely to get this very preventable disease.
• 33:03
  Wow.
• 33:03
  Die from it.
• 33:04
  ah Women in rural settings more likely than those in urban areas.
• 33:09
  And then you look at the global map, women who live in low resource settings, ah nine times more likely to die from cervical cancer, even though it's very preventable.
• 33:20
  It's actually one of the cancers that we know
• 33:21
  know what causes it, which is HPV, hence the vaccination, and then know how to screen for it.
• 33:28
  yeah, my research team works on improving how we screen and prevent cancer in marginalized women around the world.
• 33:37
  um And it's just about equity and everybody um should be able to have the highest quality of life in all aspects, and in this case, in health.
• 33:49
  That's amazing.
• 33:50
  That's really amazing that you get to do that work and just the preventable nature of the disease and really bringing that access can make such a big impact.
• 34:00
  Absolutely.
• 34:01
  it's a disease of poverty and of inequality, both in the US and high-income settings and in low-income settings.
• 34:10
  you see, it's such an undignified way to suffer and die.
• 34:16
  You get this tumor that causes abnormal bleeding, can cause fistula and a lot of pain, and it's all very preventable.
• 34:27
  Wow.
• 34:29
  the urgency, like there's different cancers that we just don't fully understand.
• 34:33
  So for example, pancreatic cancer that killed Steve Jobs, like he had all the money in the world, but we just don't understand it.
• 34:41
  But cervical cancer is one of those that we really have the science.
• 34:45
  um So I think I see my work as closing the gap between what we know and what we do, and especially for marginalized people.
• 34:55
  That's so important.
• 34:57
  That's so important.
• 34:58
  you know, it must be so exciting to see that those things come to reality when you're really bringing more access and knowledge around something that could today change
• 35:06
  people's lives.
• 35:07
  You know, we always want to hope and, you know, do more research to get to a place of understanding of these other diseases.
• 35:12
  But today we know how to prevent this.
• 35:16
  Exactly.
• 35:16
  Yep.
• 35:17
  We have the tools already.
• 35:18
  just need to get people who need them the most.
• 35:23
  Yep.
• 35:23
  Yep.
• 35:24
  Do some of the people you work with, I know you have teams, so it's not just you.
• 35:29
  I think also them people saying that you're the brains behind the operation, that must be really encouraging that they could connect with you because we know that there can be a
• 35:38
  lot of distrust or not understanding, you know, is this really good for me?
• 35:42
  Is this really necessary?
• 35:44
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 35:45
  And that speaks to what we call like concordance in care between care physician scientists and the people who get the care.
• 35:56
  So, as an African woman, when I lead clinical trials in East Africa and see patients, I speak Swahili and speak Swahili language.
• 36:05
  It makes a huge difference when you have somebody from the community introducing a study.
• 36:12
  versus if you have a foreigner.
• 36:14
  uh Same thing here too, which is why in the United States, we need more physicians of color because minority communities in the US are not represented in clinical trials and in
• 36:28
  research, part because of the history, right?
• 36:31
  You always had experimentation and you didn't have people who look like us leading and asking the questions and working with the community.
• 36:39
  So, you know, I lead a research team of about 12 people.
• 36:43
  And, you know, I think, you know, being my lived experience of being an African woman, uh you know, is central to even the questions that I ask, I think, from those communities to,
• 36:55
  you know, create, to kind of think about the solutions.
• 36:59
  And yeah, and that's why there's just, you can't close gaps in care, in outcomes.
• 37:07
  when you don't have people from that community being part of the solution.
• 37:12
  Absolutely.
• 37:12
  That's amazing.
• 37:13
  And I hope some future doctors or uh those in training can hear this and be inspired because this is really...
• 37:20
  Every time you talk about it, it just makes me so excited to see what's gonna come of this and the impact and difference you're making with all your training and that you chose to
• 37:30
  do this and give back and connect and use who you are to really bring, to make a difference, because you're bringing your whole self into that.
• 37:37
  That is pivotal.
• 37:38
  It's not something that is like...
• 37:40
  It's okay, it actually empowers you to do your job to the best of your ability for serving these communities.
• 37:46
  uh So that's really amazing.
• 37:48
  It's definitely what I consider my life's work and it's such an honor to do it.
• 37:55
  Wonderful.
• 37:56
  Yay.
• 37:57
  Well, can people connect with you?
• 37:59
  Would you like people to be able to reach out to you?
• 38:01
  Where can they find you?
• 38:02
  so I am on basically all the socials.
• 38:05
  I'm on X, I'm on Blue Sky, I'm on LinkedIn.
• 38:09
  My first name and last name all in one time and go reach out if you want to hear more about my work.
• 38:16
  I'm on the UNC website and I speak around the world and yeah, reach out.
• 38:21
  Happy to talk.
• 38:23
  love how you just casually threw it.
• 38:24
  Because yes, you're speaking around the world winning, winning awards.
• 38:27
  I love it.
• 38:28
  Yes, I'm going to be in South Africa next week for a talk.
• 38:31
  So if you're in Durban, South Africa, come say hi.
• 38:34
  say hello.
• 38:35
  Just stop popping, pop in.
• 38:37
  Well, this is so wonderful.
• 38:39
  We just thank you so much for being on the podcast.
• 38:41
  We being me, Shadia.
• 38:44
  And thank you for doing the work you're doing.
• 38:46
  Is there anything else you want to share with the audience before we head out?
• 38:49
  having me.
• 38:50
  Thank you for doing the work that you're doing and thank you for kind of elevating you know what should be the experience for a black woman's hair and kind of centering it and
• 39:01
  centering science and I love it.
• 39:03
  I look forward to hearing more about what you do.
• 39:08
  Wonderful.
• 39:08
  Well, thank you so much, Chemtai We're going to say goodbye, but connect with us online.
• 39:12
  You can find links below.
• 39:14
  We'd love for you to follow our podcast.
• 39:16
  So please subscribe.
• 39:17
  Till next time.
• 39:18
  Bye.