Latest / Skin Anarchy / E.416: Beauty’s Queen Bee Shares The Vision Behind The Cult Favorite Brand, Ellis Brooklyn

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E.416: Beauty’s Queen Bee Shares The Vision Behind The Cult Favorite Brand, Ellis Brooklyn · Skin Anarchy

0:01
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SPEAKER_02: Hey guys, welcome back to Skincare Anarchy.
0:33
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1:30
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1:31
SPEAKER_02: And I hope you love this episode coming up with Beach Apira.
1:40
SPEAKER_02: Hey guys, welcome back to Peter ARC.
1:42
SPEAKER_02: This is your host, Ekta.
1:44
SPEAKER_02: And I have such a wonderful guest with me.
1:46
SPEAKER_02: I am absolutely in love with this brand.
1:49
SPEAKER_02: And it's just such a phenomenal brand in so many ways.
1:52
SPEAKER_02: So without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to the founder of Ellis Brooklyn, uh B.
1:58
SPEAKER_02: Shapiro.
1:59
SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the show, B.
2:00
SPEAKER_02: I'm so excited to host you.
2:01
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for having me.
2:04
SPEAKER_01: Such a great way to start out the year.
2:06
SPEAKER_02: I know, and it's such an honor to host you.
2:08
SPEAKER_02: I'm truly, truly a fan.
2:10
SPEAKER_02: You know, I love the whole brand.
2:13
SPEAKER_02: Um, you've done so many different genres and not genres, but different categories of beauty and wellness.
2:19
SPEAKER_02: And they're all amazing, you know, all the products in the categories.
2:23
SPEAKER_02: So I want to get started.
2:24
SPEAKER_02: Um, I want to learn all about you and the journey to creating Ellis Brooklyn.
2:28
SPEAKER_02: If you could share that with us.
2:29
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
2:30
SPEAKER_01: So my pathway was definitely not like a straight one.
2:33
SPEAKER_01: Uh, I actually started out as an attorney in New York City, hated my job like so many attorneys do, quit.
2:42
SPEAKER_01: And then I was doing soul searching and I really realized I loved writing and I loved writing about fashion and style and culture and all that.
2:51
SPEAKER_01: And so I started building my writing resume up and I ended up at the New York Times and was there for, oh my gosh, 14 years almost.
3:01
SPEAKER_01: And so 12 of those 14 years, I was covering beauty and celebrity.
3:06
SPEAKER_01: And that's really where I fell in love with beauty and with Ellis Brooklyn.
3:11
SPEAKER_01: I was pregnant with my daughter Ellis, living in Brooklyn, writing for the Times.
3:15
SPEAKER_01: And I just felt really compelled that to say something in fragrance, particularly.
3:21
SPEAKER_01: Um, uh, for anyone who has been pregnant, you know that you're you become like a super nose, you can smell anything.
3:27
SPEAKER_01: And I've always loved fragrance.
3:29
SPEAKER_01: I have a super nose, and it was this movement of clean beauty that was happening, and I would I just wanted to be a part of it.
3:35
SPEAKER_01: So that's how it all started.
3:37
SPEAKER_02: Well, I love that.
3:38
SPEAKER_02: And yeah, you you know, it's funny because some people get that super nose while pregnant, some people just have it.
3:44
SPEAKER_02: Like my mother has it at all times.
3:49
SPEAKER_01: Or mother, I don't think it ever went away.
3:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, she should train to be a perfumer.
3:53
SPEAKER_01: You never know.
3:55
SPEAKER_02: You never know.
3:55
SPEAKER_02: No, but she actually loves your fragrances very much.
3:58
SPEAKER_02: And I um, you know, I I really love the fact that you've created such a versatile brand, and that's where I really want to um kind of get your, you know, just like the nitty-gritty details of it, because it's not just, I mean, that you have wonderful fragrances, you've got such beautiful products.
4:17
SPEAKER_02: Like I was raving on my own TikTok about your um new moisturizer, the beautiful moisturizer that is like a cloud.
4:24
SPEAKER_02: So I don't know if all of you listening out there have tried it, but um, the Ellis Brooklyn, it's in a beautiful, like sky blue jar and it just feels like a cloud.
4:33
SPEAKER_02: And then you rub it in and it's so hydrating, so nourishing.
4:37
SPEAKER_02: Like, I just I love it.
4:38
SPEAKER_02: So, I mean, like, you know, when it comes to your products, like, where does your inspiration come from?
4:43
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
4:44
SPEAKER_01: That moisturizer is so it's such an interesting project because I actually wrote the formula for that several years ago.
4:51
SPEAKER_01: And everybody on the team is like, you're known for fragrances, don't launch a moisturizer.
4:55
SPEAKER_01: What are you doing?
4:56
SPEAKER_01: And then I was sitting on this formula, sitting on this formula, and finally I was like, I'm just gonna do it.
5:02
SPEAKER_01: Um, because I really, again, I'm I'm very much the Square Founder led brand, right?
5:08
SPEAKER_01: So I'm like, you have to be passionate about your launches.
5:10
SPEAKER_01: And for me, I felt like I had something to say in skincare.
5:14
SPEAKER_01: So I've been testing product for the times for so many years, and I think one of the things I really wanted was just everything.
5:20
SPEAKER_01: So I wanted a sensitive skincare cream, I wanted something that sat well under makeup.
5:25
SPEAKER_01: I wanted something that the texture and the texture and the scent were both fun and easy to use and pleasing.
5:32
SPEAKER_01: I find that in skincare, sometimes the marketing is always about results and not so much the pleasure and the joy of actually using the product.
5:40
SPEAKER_01: And I think you should, I think we should ask for both.
5:43
SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, I don't think we should just be only results.
5:47
SPEAKER_01: We should have results plus have this product be such a lovely experience.
5:52
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely, and that's exactly why I love your moisturizer because I'm like, this is such a cool formula, and it's absolutely gorgeous.
6:00
SPEAKER_02: Like the packaging's gorgeous, like the feel of it is gorgeous, the entire experience, like you know, and I fully hundred percent agree with you with that in terms of you know, self-care and self-love are so like integral to wellness overall.
6:15
SPEAKER_02: You know, if you're doing things that are just making you feel good throughout the day, whether that's skincare, whether that's fragrance, whatever that is, it's adding it's an additive effect throughout your day.
6:25
SPEAKER_02: So you're gonna feel if you feel better, you're gonna look better, you know.
6:28
SPEAKER_02: So I 100% believe that.
6:30
SPEAKER_01: Yes, I believe that too.
6:32
SPEAKER_01: That's why the texture is fluffy like that.
6:34
SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, one thing about really moisturizing creams, I think there's a lot of that old school cold cream element, but I think that we've had so much innovation and different ingredients.
6:45
SPEAKER_01: Like, why can't we have it be fluffy but also deeply, deeply hydrating?
6:49
SPEAKER_01: And so it's a different experience, right?
6:52
SPEAKER_01: It is that cloud skin feeling, but then have it to be so nourishing and like a really cold winter is I just think is just like such a surprise and delight moment.
7:02
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely, no, absolutely, and also you know, one other thing I wanted to actually really touch upon was your branding is just on point.
7:11
SPEAKER_02: Seriously, it's so good.
7:13
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know, and that's that's where it's like, I feel like um, you know, Ellis Brooklyn as a brand is just so unique because um wherever I look, whether it's the aesthetic or the you know the marketing appeal or whether it's the efficacy of your products in the skincare realm or the fragrances and how they're you know, they're so wonderful and light, like you've got this beautiful, almost like boutique feel about your brand, you know, that's like walking into a boutique where everything you try is wonderful.
7:40
SPEAKER_02: And so to achieve that is really difficult, you know.
7:42
SPEAKER_02: I I don't see a lot of brands being able to do that.
7:45
SPEAKER_02: Um, so you know, my question really is as a founder, how has that been for you as a journey, you know, in terms of like creating your products and making sure that you know you're staying to sticking to a vision?
7:56
SPEAKER_02: Like, what is that overarching vision, you know?
8:00
SPEAKER_01: I really believe that in the experience of beauty.
8:04
SPEAKER_01: And I say that I think you can see it in the moisturizer where I feel like people should have everything, right?
8:09
SPEAKER_01: Like, especially if you're paying for a luxury product.
8:11
SPEAKER_01: And I definitely don't think our price point is is out of reach, but also it is it, it's it's a it's a splurge for most, I would say for a lot of people, right?
8:21
SPEAKER_01: And I think that if we're going to do that and have that moment, that little escape of the day, then I really think we shouldn't be sacrificing.
8:30
SPEAKER_01: And that's how I approach the products as well.
8:32
SPEAKER_01: So if you look at our body oils, the number one ingredient is squaling.
8:37
SPEAKER_01: I don't think there's really any fragrance body oil out there formulated in the same way.
8:42
SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of times what ends up happening and formulating is that you have this beautiful scent, and then you have this body oil formula that's maybe subpar, and then brands get away with it because they have pretty packaging and then call it a day.
8:56
SPEAKER_01: And that's just not who I am.
8:58
SPEAKER_01: And so I don't want to put out a product like that because I personally wouldn't feel comfortable doing that when I know that I personally would love a body oil that's also super nourishing and smells amazing, sure, but also has all the other attributes I actually really love.
9:15
SPEAKER_02: Of course.
9:16
SPEAKER_02: And it's like you don't believe in it either, right?
9:18
SPEAKER_02: It's like I feel like a lot of founders like they'll come out with a product because you know, someone advises them or like someone tells them, like, no, you have to do this, or this ingredient is in, you have to create something around this, like, you know, or or if it's like a makeup brand, you have to create something around this palette because it's this time of season.
9:34
SPEAKER_02: And a lot of times I see it failing because it doesn't jive with like their their mission, you know what I mean?
9:40
SPEAKER_02: Like their vibe as a founder and like a brand.
9:43
SPEAKER_02: And I feel like, you know, that is something I don't see you doing, which I love.
9:47
SPEAKER_02: It's like, you know, you do your own thing and your brand is your brand and it's it's it's what it is.
9:52
SPEAKER_02: LS Brooklyn is what it is, and it's made it's a name for itself because of that, because you guys aren't copying, you know, all these trends that pop up every day.
10:00
SPEAKER_02: So I absolutely, absolutely love that about everything.
10:03
SPEAKER_01: Oh, thank you.
10:04
SPEAKER_01: Yes, you know, I actually purposely at, you know, when I pair with our manufacturers or fragrance houses, a lot of times they'll send you uh market reports, which is like trend reports on what you should be doing.
10:17
SPEAKER_01: And I actually purposely don't want those.
10:21
SPEAKER_01: Um I don't want them because one time I got presented in a meeting and there was an article in there that was quoted about what was a hot, you know, ingredient, etc.
10:32
SPEAKER_01: And I had written the article.
10:34
SPEAKER_01: Oh wow.
10:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was so bizarre in that little market meeting because they were saying it was such authority, and then I looked at the footnotes, I was like, wait, that sounds familiar, that line.
10:44
SPEAKER_01: And then I was looking in the footnotes, and there it is.
10:46
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's my article.
10:48
SPEAKER_01: So um I really think that we really, as founders, most of the time are founders for a reason, right?
10:56
SPEAKER_01: Like vast majority of time, it that's the case.
10:59
SPEAKER_01: And so I definitely think there's market pressures, and okay, something is seasonal or something should sell at certain time.
11:06
SPEAKER_01: And and I think it's important to consider, you know, we are in a business, but at the end of the day, that's the joy of being an indie brand, right?
11:15
SPEAKER_01: Like that's the that's the quality and that's the things you can choose being an independent brand.
11:21
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
11:21
SPEAKER_02: And I think that that's really something that's um, you know, it's special.
11:25
SPEAKER_02: It's special.
11:26
SPEAKER_02: And I I actually had this conversation um, you know, with a few people in the last like month is this idea of like indie beauty is really kind of taking on a new stride, a new momentum, where it's no longer this like, you know, um like PC kind of feel to indie beauty, where it's like almost like, you know how collages are like you have an idea, you put it on the board, and you know, you kind of go with it.
11:49
SPEAKER_02: It's not like that anymore.
11:50
SPEAKER_02: It's like very luxury, it's very well put together, very well thought out, you know, and a lot of the in like what we call indie brands are my favorite brands, you know, and it and it and it's so interesting to watch that movement because I think that for so long people have been underestimating the power of just, you know, a founder going with their gut, going with their vision, creating things that they love, and you know what I mean, and then putting that out there in the world and seeing what happens because that is really the power of, you know, if you create something with your heart, it's gonna show and people are gonna gravitate towards that.
12:24
SPEAKER_02: So that's such a such an important, like, I feel like intrinsic appeal that a lot of really, really big companies kind of uh have started to miss out on, I think, you know, as of late.
12:35
SPEAKER_01: Agreed.
12:36
SPEAKER_01: I think there's so many exciting brands right now, and I and it comes across in such a polished way.
12:41
SPEAKER_01: So being a beauty tester for the New York Times for so long, I actually don't love the I made it in my kitchen kind of brands because I've broken out rashes from them.
12:51
SPEAKER_01: I have no idea if their equipment is clean.
12:54
SPEAKER_01: And uh I think it has its own special DIY charm.
12:57
SPEAKER_01: But when it comes to actually purchasing it in store and it's been sitting on shelf for a long time, I really avoid those kind of brands.
13:04
SPEAKER_01: Um, just because I I don't I really don't know what's going on there.
13:07
SPEAKER_01: Uh, what is cool about now is how cool and directional and really thought out some of these brands are.
13:15
SPEAKER_01: Um, I would like to think Ellis Brooklyn certainly is part of that, but there's also cool makeup brands, there's cool skincare focused brands, there's cool so many brands that have such a point of view, and then the product is so polished in a great way.
13:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, 100%.
13:30
SPEAKER_02: And you know what's it's interesting you brought that up about the whole, you know, made in your kitchen thing because I'm so excited to see that starting to go away a little bit, you know, actually more so than just a little bit.
13:41
SPEAKER_02: People are finally understanding that, you know, especially with this whole clean beauty thing that just happened with Sephora and like, you know what I mean?
13:47
SPEAKER_02: Just people are understanding and gravitating towards the concept of no, we need some regulation here, you know, we need like really good products.
13:54
SPEAKER_02: And that actually leads me to asking you about your process when it comes to like, you know, when you were finding a manufacturer, when you were looking for a lab, or like really anything or you know, anyone who was gonna help you really actually create the products.
14:07
SPEAKER_02: What was that like for you?
14:08
SPEAKER_02: You know, coming from this editorial background and kind of having seen it all, um, what was that like?
14:13
SPEAKER_02: You know, the whole process.
14:15
SPEAKER_01: Oh gosh, this is a funny story, but I actually approached it with such naivety.
14:20
SPEAKER_01: Um, I say that because I thought, oh, you know, I'm the New York Times beauty column.
14:24
SPEAKER_01: People are gonna answer my call.
14:25
SPEAKER_01: I'm starting this little indie line and people will want to be part of it.
14:29
SPEAKER_01: And uh truly in the beginning, no one returned my call.
14:33
SPEAKER_01: I emailed, I called, they passed me off.
14:36
SPEAKER_01: It was brutal.
14:37
SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, no one wanted to do it.
14:40
SPEAKER_01: And I think it's because of the way the fragrance world is set up.
14:43
SPEAKER_01: So in the fragrance world, you work with, let's say you're lucky enough to work with some great master perfumers, they have their choice of what to work on.
14:53
SPEAKER_01: And it's a very different field than skincare where you're working with just a chemist.
15:00
SPEAKER_01: A master perfumer is like an artist.
15:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yes, and they have a choice, they don't have to work on your little line, so it's a lot of sales in the sense that you really are selling your vision because your line is not fleshed out yet, so no one really knows what it's gonna end up looking or smelling like.
15:17
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
15:18
SPEAKER_02: And and that's that's interesting.
15:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, go ahead, sorry.
15:21
SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's okay.
15:21
SPEAKER_01: So so in the beginning, I literally had to have somebody who is very high up in the industry do a favor and reach out to one of the perfume houses so they would work with me.
15:31
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
15:33
SPEAKER_02: Wow, that's insane.
15:35
SPEAKER_02: So, like, what is that like?
15:36
SPEAKER_02: Like, do you have to like go through like a vetting process or something?
15:39
SPEAKER_02: Like, you just like like do you just like pick a perfumer and say, I hope to God he likes me?
15:45
SPEAKER_01: Uh, not anymore, right?
15:47
SPEAKER_01: Like uh now, now we definitely are able to much more have our pick, but then there's there's these perfumers that I've built really great scent vocabularies with.
15:56
SPEAKER_01: So scent vocabulary to me, I think is really important because scent is so hard to describe that you really have to get to know the perfumer you're working with for them to understand who you are and who the brand is.
16:09
SPEAKER_01: Uh for yes, for example, what does sexy smell like?
16:14
SPEAKER_01: Like for you, what does it smell like?
16:16
SPEAKER_02: For me, yeah, for you.
16:19
SPEAKER_02: I think it's just clean, like it's not so bad, but like clean, you know, something very like because I I love those kind of scents, anyways.
16:27
SPEAKER_02: Like fragrance has to be like citrusy, clean, very light, but like still, you know, making a statement in the room kind of thing.
16:34
SPEAKER_01: Right.
16:35
SPEAKER_01: So for some people, clean, uh a sexy fragrance would not be clean, it'd be dirty, it would be anamolic, it would be a red dress, you know.
16:43
SPEAKER_01: So I think um, so there's a couple perfumers I really love.
16:47
SPEAKER_01: I love Frank Vocal, I love Pierre Negrin.
16:50
SPEAKER_01: I've worked with them on several.
16:51
SPEAKER_01: I have one coming up with Honorine Blanc that I'm really excited about.
16:55
SPEAKER_01: And what happens is you really have to build what does sexy mean for LS Brooklyn?
17:00
SPEAKER_01: Uh, what kind of finishes do we like?
17:02
SPEAKER_01: And the sense that I always love a finish that sits really, really nicely on the skin.
17:07
SPEAKER_01: I really care about the life of the fragrance.
17:09
SPEAKER_01: Historically, fragrances were really, and even today, most of the major brands, uh, fragrances are really called blotter fragrances in that they smell amazing for 10 seconds on paper.
17:21
SPEAKER_01: And then the life of the fragrance is sort of whatever, or sort of more of an afterthought.
17:26
SPEAKER_01: Uh, we create totally different, where of course we care about the opening, but we actually care about the life of the fragrance and how it wears on the skin more.
17:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
17:35
SPEAKER_02: And I think your fragrances are so interesting because they really um, for me, like I'm still learning, right, about fragrance in a like in a lot of ways.
17:45
SPEAKER_02: You know, I started that Fragrance Friday series and I've just been learning about how fragrances sit on your skin versus, you know, paper.
17:53
SPEAKER_02: And one thing I've realized that I never noticed before, and this is something I've noticed with the LS Brooklyn line, is that um also is that, you know, when back in the day you used to spray on a perfume, you'd love the way you smelled in your bathroom or in your bedroom, you know what I mean?
18:11
SPEAKER_02: And then you would go out there in the world and all that wind would hit you and weather would happen, and it's like bam, it's gone.
18:18
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
18:18
SPEAKER_02: Everything is just you don't smell like it anymore.
18:21
SPEAKER_02: And this like longevity of fragrance and you know, understanding that there's a lot of different components that go behind making a really nice, like, you know, um, just more thought out scent is something I'm learning as a consumer.
18:36
SPEAKER_02: And I'm starting to realize, like, you know, there's there has to be a lot of thought there.
18:40
SPEAKER_02: So when you are designing, and that that's why the reason I'm saying that is I want to ask you like when you're designing your fragrances or you're thinking, you know what, we need this in the line.
18:49
SPEAKER_02: We don't have like this specific type of fragrance.
18:52
SPEAKER_02: Do you know, like in your head, like what kind of notes you want to work with, or do you kind of just work with the perfumer and see what they think first and then figure out what you like?
19:00
SPEAKER_01: Oh no, it's really directional.
19:02
SPEAKER_01: So normally I am always looking at a category where I feel like could use a freshen up.
19:10
SPEAKER_01: And by that I mean, so we have a new scent coming out in March that is a citrus white floral.
19:17
SPEAKER_01: And no more.
19:22
SPEAKER_01: The bottle is really cool too.
19:24
SPEAKER_01: It's like super, super catchy and so beautiful.
19:27
SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited for the launch.
19:28
SPEAKER_01: It's like long and coming.
19:30
SPEAKER_01: Uh, but developing the scent was interesting because I knew I wanted to change florals.
19:36
SPEAKER_01: I say that because I'm not really your classic floral wearer.
19:40
SPEAKER_01: I love a clean white musk.
19:42
SPEAKER_01: That is like my go-to, and that's the myth eau de parfum in our line.
19:47
SPEAKER_01: And so for me, creating a floral is challenging because it's not really my MO, right?
19:54
SPEAKER_01: It's never really been my signature.
19:57
SPEAKER_01: And to get there and to do it in a new way, I thought I was super proud of.
20:03
SPEAKER_01: So this fragrance is gorgeous.
20:05
SPEAKER_01: And at the same time, it's a white floral.
20:07
SPEAKER_01: So white floral sometimes can get really old school in that there's a powdery finish.
20:12
SPEAKER_01: It reads kind of old, it reads that the typical comment is grandma.
20:16
SPEAKER_01: So, how do we do it different?
20:18
SPEAKER_01: And so for us, we actually love technology.
20:22
SPEAKER_01: We're very much into scent technology, probably more so than the average fragrance brand.
20:27
SPEAKER_01: So we use tuberose petals instead of regular tuberose.
20:30
SPEAKER_01: We use a pear that's done in a totally new way called fear wave, which uses like a giant microwave and then shocks like a real pear to release scent.
20:39
SPEAKER_01: So the scent becomes super photorealistic.
20:42
SPEAKER_01: So uh, so we do those kind of things.
20:44
SPEAKER_01: We would love fragrance scent innovation as long as it's sustainable and a better source than naturals.
20:51
SPEAKER_02: That's so cool.
20:52
SPEAKER_02: I've I mean, I haven't never heard of that.
20:54
SPEAKER_02: Um, where you're shocking fruit together.
20:59
SPEAKER_02: That's kind of cool to do it at home.
21:02
SPEAKER_02: It's so funny, right?
21:04
SPEAKER_01: Totally.
21:04
SPEAKER_01: Don't microwave a pair at home.
21:07
SPEAKER_02: After this, bee, I want to go to my microwave, put an orange in it.
21:11
SPEAKER_02: Like, I mean, honestly, it's it's interesting to me, you know, because I I hear about there's so much technology, like you said, you know, in the skincare realm, beauty realm, but fragrance is always so interesting.
21:21
SPEAKER_02: I I almost look at it as there's this like old school way of doing things, and it's very difficult to change that, but apparently not.
21:28
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I guess we're innovating things left and right, so I love that.
21:32
SPEAKER_02: Um, one thing though, you know, that I do find to be interesting and I've learned about fragrance is that synthetic versus natural.
21:38
SPEAKER_02: Now, how do you approach that when you're um looking at your fragrances?
21:41
SPEAKER_02: I mean, do you gravitate more towards natural um bits in your fragrance or more synthetic?
21:48
SPEAKER_01: It's actually a really fuzzy line, to be honest with you.
21:52
SPEAKER_01: So we do love naturals, but we also are sustainable companies.
21:57
SPEAKER_01: So we always look at is there a sustainable Sustainable version of that natural.
22:02
SPEAKER_01: And if that sustainable version uses technology, what does that all mean?
22:06
SPEAKER_01: So the fear wave is actually a great example.
22:09
SPEAKER_01: So technically, that is a natural ingredient because it's the set molecules being zapped on that pair and it's releasing.
22:18
SPEAKER_01: So it's actually technically a natural ingredient.
22:22
SPEAKER_01: But if you replicate that molecule, is it still natural or is it synthetic?
22:28
SPEAKER_01: And so it's a really fuzzy line.
22:31
SPEAKER_01: We do love naturals, but one thing that we're learning more and more because each one of our fragrances are graded on carbon impact, water impact, um, also impact on society, like farming societies.
22:43
SPEAKER_01: Um, each fragrance is graded.
22:45
SPEAKER_01: We're actually getting real metrics.
22:46
SPEAKER_01: And then so, so you really want to balance that with okay, is there a synthetic option that's completely renewable?
22:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
22:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
22:55
SPEAKER_02: And so what about, you know, what about the um the aspects like, you know, when a fragrance opens up and stuff, like how is that?
23:02
SPEAKER_02: I mean, have you seen the difference there?
23:04
SPEAKER_02: Or has the technology kind of made it so that, you know, um, it doesn't feel like it's a fake, you know what I mean, or not natural, I guess you shouldn't say fake, but like, you know, it doesn't feel like a normal synthetic.
23:15
SPEAKER_02: It feels more now because all of your fragrances are very, very um, they're very beautiful the way they open up.
23:21
SPEAKER_02: So that's interesting to me that you said that and hence why I'm asking.
23:24
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
23:25
SPEAKER_01: We do use a lot of naturals.
23:27
SPEAKER_01: I think that naturals offer a complexity that is unique in uh in a composition.
23:33
SPEAKER_01: That being said, I think some of these naturals that sort of ride the line with innovation offer an a broader palette.
23:40
SPEAKER_01: So if you think about um if you think about the pear from the fear wave, it just offers a really different take on pear, whereas pear itself typically doesn't is synthetic.
23:51
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if people know that.
23:53
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I didn't know that, yeah.
23:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, pear doesn't have much oil, so because of that, pear is typically synthetic.
24:01
SPEAKER_01: And this is actually the most natural way currently using technology, but it's still the most natural, closest to natural, I would say.
24:10
SPEAKER_01: So isn't that interesting?
24:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that is so cool.
24:14
SPEAKER_02: And yeah, I mean, I I didn't even know because like for the longest time, people are like, synthetics don't like synthetics, are you can immediately tell, you know what I mean, or something like that.
24:24
SPEAKER_02: Like, people have been saying that, and I'm like, Well, what do you mean?
24:27
SPEAKER_02: Because I've never really been able to tell.
24:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I think that's a really interesting comment because I think a lot of times people actually don't know.
24:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I don't think they do, and I I think it it's more um something for the perfume world to kind of understand more so than consumers, you know, everyday consumers.
24:46
SPEAKER_02: Like as long as it smells really good and it's a good, you know, overall scent, I don't think anyone's gonna be nitpicking like that.
24:53
SPEAKER_02: That's you know, I think that's definitely for the um, you know, the the professionals.
24:58
SPEAKER_01: I agree.
24:59
SPEAKER_01: And so many, yeah.
25:00
SPEAKER_01: Oh, go ahead.
25:01
SPEAKER_01: Go ahead.
25:02
SPEAKER_02: Oh, go ahead.
25:02
SPEAKER_01: I was saying so many ingredients I don't think people realize are really, really impactful in the environment.
25:09
SPEAKER_01: So all the woods fragrances that we're smelling now, if we're using a hundred percent natural sandalwood, for example, for the whole entire composition, you're actually killing the tree.
25:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
25:21
SPEAKER_02: I've heard that, and I heard that sandalwood is like really like going out, like it's like not as readily readily available or something.
25:29
SPEAKER_02: I think someone else said that.
25:31
SPEAKER_01: Correct, correct.
25:32
SPEAKER_01: It's challenging because you want to, if you want to use natural sandalwood sandalwood, which we do use in some of our compositions, you have to make sure it's coming from a really responsible place.
25:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I think that it's just an it it makes more sense to me to shift uh to another way of, you know, um finding whether that's you know, fragrance or skincare, you we need to find more sustainable ways that are actually, you know, like you said, technology-based, because at the end of the day, that's with any naturally occurring resource in the world, you know, it's gonna run out, it's gonna be, you know, running out faster than it is regenerating.
26:07
SPEAKER_02: And it's it's very important to be mindful of that as a business and also like, you know, just as a person, as a consumer.
26:14
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I I think a lot of people love talking about sustainability, but usually when I hear that argument, it's about, you know, for example, the decomposition of certain ingredients or certain chemicals, but it's never about like, you know, where are you sourcing from?
26:28
SPEAKER_02: What are you really using?
26:29
SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, people say, for example, we have, you know, sourcing practices that are really, really good, but at the end of the day, you know, I think that the role of technology has been so underplayed in the beauty community, you know, for so long that we really do need to come to this realization that um if we can create it somehow, you know, and really mimic nature, that's the best way to go.
26:52
SPEAKER_02: So I I think that's a very, very important conversation for everyone to like have if you're a beauty founder, you know, internally, and also for consumers, you know, like what do you support?
27:01
SPEAKER_02: Like, what are you voting for with your dollars?
27:03
SPEAKER_02: You know, it's it's a real it's something that you really have to sit down and think about at this point.
27:08
SPEAKER_01: Totally.
27:08
SPEAKER_01: And it's such a 360 way to view it as opposed to, I remember when we first started LS Brooklyn, it was definitely that is it natural or synthetic conversation?
27:17
SPEAKER_01: And in real life, if you really, really care about sustainability, then that line is not really necessarily the only line to talk about, right?
27:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
27:27
SPEAKER_01: Um, there's so for example, the sphere wave technology is actually brand, brand new, and they're gonna try to do it on other ingredients um going forward because it doesn't use any solvent.
27:38
SPEAKER_01: So one thing that maybe is not talked about enough is that when you do like floral fragrances like rose or tuberose or you know, a bunch of uh different options, how they render down the scent is really important for the impact on the environment.
27:54
SPEAKER_01: So, are they using a CO2 extraction, which actually only has a byproduct of water, so it's super clean, or are they using solvent?
28:02
SPEAKER_01: Solvent is not great for the environment.
28:04
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, it's not just natural or not natural.
28:06
SPEAKER_01: It's like, what are we doing as a brand to further to also spend our dollars in the right place?
28:13
SPEAKER_01: And yes, some of the ingredients we actually buy, like the fearwave stuff, is much more expensive.
28:18
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
28:18
SPEAKER_02: No, I can imagine that.
28:20
SPEAKER_02: I'm glad that you're taking those steps, though, B, honestly, because that is how I think longevity is maintained for any brand, whether you're like L'Oreal or whether you're a startup, it doesn't matter.
28:31
SPEAKER_02: Like you have to go in the direction that feels ethically and just logically correct to you as a founder, you know.
28:37
SPEAKER_02: And I am I'm really glad that you're, you know, you're taking steps to find better solutions, more, you know, innovative ways to create which what your vision is, you know, and that is for me, it's a huge learning lesson, you know.
28:50
SPEAKER_02: If I um if I was about to start a beauty brand, I would want to learn more about this kind of stuff, you know, because it's not the industry is changing so much now, you know, and it's changing in the way of like um it's already been done before, everything's already been done before.
29:04
SPEAKER_02: So what can you do now?
29:06
SPEAKER_02: And where are the benchmarks?
29:08
SPEAKER_02: And that's where I get very, very passionate about this whole conversation, um, is that there's this huge movement, I feel like, going on under the works where there's a lot of founders coming up out of the woodworks and they're really wanting to create these like revolutionarily new products that are from a different perspective, but then they run into the same problems, you know, the the age-old problem of, well, this costs too much.
29:30
SPEAKER_02: I can't source this, it's too expensive of an ingredient, you know, or this is too costly, or this is not logical for me as a startup, you know, blah, blah, blah.
29:40
SPEAKER_02: And it goes on, the list goes on.
29:41
SPEAKER_02: But it's like at the end of the day, it's really about how much homework have you done and how much and who are you learning from, right?
29:48
SPEAKER_02: It's like, it's like a community-based thing.
29:50
SPEAKER_02: Like, for example, I'm interviewing you right now.
29:52
SPEAKER_02: So if there's somebody out there listening and you're thinking of starting a perfume line, like, you know what I mean, take notes, like see what B did and try to learn from it.
30:00
SPEAKER_02: And then, you know what I mean, adapt it to your model and your vision because that's how we learn from each other.
30:05
SPEAKER_02: And I just I wish there was more openness about that, you know what I mean?
30:09
SPEAKER_02: And like um things like fragrance and these like less talked-about niches of uh beauty.
30:14
SPEAKER_02: So I I I love that you're telling us and sharing the whole journey with us.
30:18
SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you.
30:19
SPEAKER_01: Yes, I really get into the nitty-gritty.
30:22
SPEAKER_01: No, I love that.
30:23
SPEAKER_02: I love that.
30:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thanks.
30:24
SPEAKER_01: I mean, obviously, I care about packaging and marketing and all the fun, the fun frosting, I like to say on top.
30:30
SPEAKER_01: But I think at the end of the day, if you are a sustainable or clean fragrance brand or any brand really at heart, I think these things are are really deep conversations.
30:41
SPEAKER_01: I've always disliked the quote unquote greenwashing, right?
30:44
SPEAKER_01: Like I I also when we first launched, there was a lot of clean police like out there, like, oh my god, I can't believe you use XYZ.
30:52
SPEAKER_01: And that just means it's nefarious.
30:54
SPEAKER_01: And I and I would much rather have what you were saying, this open dialogue, like, okay, I did XYZ.
31:00
SPEAKER_01: Be sure to ask for this if you're looking at roses or whatever it is, right?
31:06
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
31:09
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I you know, and that conversation, uh, like if I'm being very, very candid with you know, everyone listening, that conversation, I feel like when people say stuff like that has led to more harm than good, if I'm being very honest.
31:23
SPEAKER_02: I don't think people like understand that there's a lot more that goes behind clean and like, you know what I mean?
31:30
SPEAKER_02: Like this idea of like whatever it is you're looking for, you know, whatever that means to you, like what is clean, that has a huge, you know, um weight behind it.
31:40
SPEAKER_02: And it just because somebody has, like we were talking earlier, made it in their kitchen or they've put no preservatives in something, or they've, you know, whatever it is, it doesn't mean that it's a better product.
31:52
SPEAKER_02: And that's a conversation I feel like is finally coming full circle.
31:55
SPEAKER_02: And I'm so happy to see that now because consumers are now realizing like there are chemicals that we don't understand why they're used in a formula, but they're there for a reason and they're doing what they're supposed to do, you know, in terms of like um whether it's preserving your product or making it, you know, more penetrable for your skin barrier or whatever it is, right?
32:14
SPEAKER_02: And those that those that's the homework.
32:16
SPEAKER_02: That's the real homework.
32:18
SPEAKER_02: Understanding, you know, for a long time.
32:20
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I'll give you an example.
32:21
SPEAKER_02: There was that, I don't know if you saw this or not, but on social media, it was like, well, I don't give a crap about those big words, you know, there's like an ingredient that's like, you know, a page long and just one name.
32:32
SPEAKER_02: And I used to sit there and I used to be like, well, you should give a crap about that one word.
32:36
SPEAKER_02: Because if you look it up, you know what I mean, it's gonna help you understand what it's used for and why we're using it.
32:43
SPEAKER_02: And that would, you know, really alleviate a lot of these false claims around, well, these are this is bad or this is bad.
32:49
SPEAKER_02: I, you know, I was reading like it just puts things into perspective when you like learn about, like, for example, um, there was an argument going on about um, not argument, but there was some somebody talking about tide, the company tide and detergents in general and how they are contributing to this, you know, non-degradable um, you know, accumulation of certain chemicals.
33:11
SPEAKER_02: Like these are non-degradable chemicals that, you know, are gonna stay in our environment for thousands of years and no one is really attacking them.
33:19
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
33:20
SPEAKER_02: But at the end of the day, when it comes to beauty or any kind of personal care products, people get so hyped up and they're like, oh my gosh, like, you know, we have to go all in on this one person.
33:29
SPEAKER_02: And it's like, you guys need to chill, you know, like look at it from a grand scope, you know, like a bigger scope and really understand like what is the purpose of everything and where does it fit?
33:39
SPEAKER_02: So, you know, I think that I really just love, you know, everything about your brand because I think that it it checks off for me all the boxes in the sense of like, I know that you're you've done your homework, I know that you've, you know what I mean, created something that I really resonate with, you know, in a cultural way too, you know.
33:56
SPEAKER_02: So I think that that is more important to me as a consumer than just like looking at the ingredients of everything and being like, where can I get B on this one?
34:05
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
34:07
SPEAKER_01: It's so true.
34:09
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think I think to push the beauty industry forward, it should be positive.
34:13
SPEAKER_01: And and sometimes the negative stuff I see, yes, you know, sometimes when you're formulating, you have to make sacrifices or choices.
34:21
SPEAKER_01: And I wish sometimes there was actually like a prioritization of ingredients we should avoid.
34:29
SPEAKER_01: So, for example, in formulating the skincare, one of the toughest things to avoid is silicone because silicone gives this really beautiful slip and it's also very, very affordable.
34:41
SPEAKER_01: So I don't love silicone for the skin, but I see the value of it.
34:45
SPEAKER_01: So silicone can be protective, especially in very dry environments.
34:49
SPEAKER_01: It can help hold moisture in.
34:51
SPEAKER_01: But the main problem with silicone is if you have too much, it doesn't allow your skin to breathe.
34:55
SPEAKER_01: And so we use an algae that acts like a silicone.
34:59
SPEAKER_01: So it still has the protective qualities, but it's breathable.
35:02
SPEAKER_01: So it's basically an algae type of skin coating that we're basically using and substitute of silicone.
35:09
SPEAKER_01: That being said, one of the ingredients I really, if I'm testing other products or just looking at different things to put on my face, I really, really look to make sure to avoid the um, I think it's called third generation silicones.
35:24
SPEAKER_01: Dimethicone is not that bad for you.
35:26
SPEAKER_01: It just is not great.
35:28
SPEAKER_01: We have a lot on.
35:28
SPEAKER_01: But there's like the cyclociloxane, those kind of things are actually banned in the EU.
35:34
SPEAKER_01: So most people don't know that, right?
35:36
SPEAKER_01: I only know that because I'm behind the scenes.
35:38
SPEAKER_01: And I'm less worried about parabens.
35:42
SPEAKER_01: We don't use parabens, but I'm less worried about that.
35:44
SPEAKER_01: I'm less worried about certain things.
35:46
SPEAKER_01: Yes, you can avoid them, that's great.
35:48
SPEAKER_01: And we personally don't use them at LS Brooklyn, but I almost wish there was like a sharing of tiering, like what you should really, really avoid and what is like, okay, it's not great, but if you have a little bit of it, it's not the end of the world.
36:01
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
36:01
SPEAKER_02: No, I 100% agree with you.
36:04
SPEAKER_02: And you know, this actually, you know, I I want to ask you this because I feel like, you know, with the background you have an editorial and having seen pretty much everything, you know, in your career, as most editors can kind of attest to, like, what was something for you that you know you you had learned from all those years of um of you know journalism that you wanted to avoid or or even the opposite, bring into your brand?
36:30
SPEAKER_02: Like, what were some things that you took away from that background?
36:34
SPEAKER_01: So because I tested so much product, I think that's really where I came up with the idea that I don't want any sacrifices.
36:41
SPEAKER_01: Uh so many products I test, it's like if you were grading at a four out of five, I would be like, oh, it's four and a half out of five.
36:50
SPEAKER_01: I just wish XYZ.
36:52
SPEAKER_01: And and I know a lot of times it's like we discussed earlier, there's cost choices, there's packaging choices, there's, you know, especially if you're buying a lower price product, there's these things that they really have to consider.
37:04
SPEAKER_01: So I think that that I'm more understanding of, but since I have my own brand and I'm doing my own thing, I'm pricing my own way.
37:13
SPEAKER_01: I just wanted to be sure I was creating a product where I wasn't sort of skimping.
37:19
SPEAKER_01: Does that make sense?
37:20
SPEAKER_01: I wanted to go for the five out of five.
37:22
SPEAKER_02: No, it makes total sense.
37:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
37:25
SPEAKER_01: So I really, I feel like I really got that out of being a media.
37:29
SPEAKER_01: I will say one thing that I actually learned more LS Brooklyn that I thought I'd be more savvy on is I think I certainly know how to write a nice story for sure, right?
37:40
SPEAKER_01: About beauty and really, really explain it.
37:42
SPEAKER_01: What I didn't really understand when I first started LS Brooklyn, that's why I think our products are getting better and better, is that you really have only have a short moment to tell the story.
37:54
SPEAKER_01: And you don't have a whole article.
37:56
SPEAKER_01: And so if you only have a short moment, I really want in that first spray of perfume, in that first try of skincare, like, oh, what is this?
38:05
SPEAKER_01: And I want it to be really, really clear.
38:08
SPEAKER_01: So uh when when this perfume for spring comes out, which I'm so excited about, you know right away it is a citrus floral.
38:15
SPEAKER_01: Like it is this beautiful big lift right when you spray it.
38:20
SPEAKER_01: And I've thought about that more and more.
38:22
SPEAKER_01: And it's something I didn't think about as much when I was an editor, because when you're an editor, you have all this product sent to you.
38:30
SPEAKER_01: It's not, it sounds like it's really not a tough life, right?
38:33
SPEAKER_01: You have all this plethora of products sent to you, and you have your time to try it, and so you're not thinking about that as much.
38:40
SPEAKER_01: You have more of an opportunity to be like, oh, you know, I'll try this.
38:44
SPEAKER_01: I don't like that, I'll try that.
38:45
SPEAKER_01: Whereas the the the actual customer, she has to pick and choose at that moment.
38:50
SPEAKER_01: She is not sent 10 million things to try.
38:53
SPEAKER_02: Right.
38:54
SPEAKER_02: Right.
38:55
SPEAKER_02: No, I know, and I love that point that you made about, you know, you have you don't have that much time to make that impression.
39:01
SPEAKER_02: And that's another thing that really stands out about your brand.
39:03
SPEAKER_02: And I don't know if it's the packaging or if it's the feel, but there's just a vibe.
39:07
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
39:07
SPEAKER_02: You get the vibe, and you're like immediately for me, it was when I first saw um, you know, some of the products that I'm now like obsessed with and I use literally every day in your line, I saw your packaging and I saw the way like little details, like the magnetic tops, or like, you know, the way that the, you know, things like how it fits into like my purse or little things, right?
39:30
SPEAKER_02: And they just made me fall in love because it was that attention to detail.
39:34
SPEAKER_02: It was that attention to the minute things that we don't really know how to verbalize as consumers, but we do notice.
39:41
SPEAKER_02: And you really nailed it, you know?
39:43
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, she has put so much thought into everything because it shows, it really shows.
39:49
SPEAKER_02: And I feel like that's the world we're we're living in now where you have to kind of like do this like homework for the consumer.
39:56
SPEAKER_02: Almost, I mean, do you feel like that as a founder?
39:58
SPEAKER_02: Like you have to do that homework and and kind of check off all these boxes we didn't even know were boxes.
40:04
SPEAKER_01: Oh, you know, that's interesting.
40:06
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, first of all, I love beautiful things, I love beautiful design.
40:11
SPEAKER_01: And I think beauty is not a necessity, particularly perfume.
40:15
SPEAKER_01: We're not talking about a bar of soap here.
40:17
SPEAKER_01: So if that's the case, then I really believe in wearing perfume for self-pleasure.
40:24
SPEAKER_01: I think one of the reasons why I created Alice Brooklyn is I always thought the marketing for perfume prior to me starting it was really antiquated.
40:32
SPEAKER_01: I think that the idea of wearing it for only occasions like date night, et cetera, is fine, but it can't be the end-all be all selecting fragrance for yourself.
40:41
SPEAKER_01: It has to be a personal pleasure that's in there.
40:44
SPEAKER_01: So I think that's my grounding for all the little details because I'm thinking about it from pleasure.
40:49
SPEAKER_01: I'm not thinking about it from necessarily even function, right?
40:52
SPEAKER_01: I'm thinking about it like, oh, I want the color of the bottle to be so pleasing, right?
40:58
SPEAKER_01: And I actually hold the bottle up to the light because I'm like, what will it look like when I hold it up to the light?
41:03
SPEAKER_01: Like it's silly.
41:04
SPEAKER_01: Like, if you look at our salt oda parfum, you'll you'll realize if you hold the blue up to the light, it's so beautiful.
41:09
SPEAKER_01: It looks like it is gorgeous.
41:11
SPEAKER_02: Oh my God.
41:12
SPEAKER_02: And you picked the perfect freaking blue, bro.
41:15
SPEAKER_02: It is the most gorgeous.
41:16
SPEAKER_02: And that's by the way, my favorite color FYI.
41:19
SPEAKER_02: I just I fell in love when I saw the bottle.
41:22
SPEAKER_02: I had just seen it like in pictures, and I was like, I have to own this.
41:26
SPEAKER_02: Like this will be mine.
41:28
SPEAKER_02: No, you know, I know it became this thing, and it was like, you know, it reminded me of like back in the day, being a teenager, seeing something really cool, you know, that you wanted.
41:36
SPEAKER_02: And and that feel, that feeling is something I think is so it's so important.
41:42
SPEAKER_02: Like sometimes it's more important than all those words and all those, you know what I mean?
41:47
SPEAKER_02: Like uh the briefs and the and the bios, and you know, this is what the no, what is your hook, you know?
41:53
SPEAKER_02: And you really nailed it, you know, you hooked me on for the first look.
41:58
SPEAKER_02: And so I think that's so rare.
41:59
SPEAKER_02: And that's why I was like, I have to ask her when I interview her because it's just stunning, you know, that packaging and the the whole feel.
42:06
SPEAKER_02: It's not even about packaging, it's about the feel.
42:08
SPEAKER_02: And it reminds me of the most awesome summer I had as like an 18-year-old or 17-year-old.
42:14
SPEAKER_02: That's the feel you feeling I get when I look at that bottle.
42:17
SPEAKER_02: So to, you know, that relationship and that connection that's formed there with a brand, that's priceless.
42:23
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
42:24
SPEAKER_02: And and that only comes, I think, from founders who have this experience, whether that's like your background where you've seen it all, you've been an editor for so many years, or, you know, whatever that may be for a founder, but you really definitely nailed it.
42:36
SPEAKER_02: B seriously, like I absolutely like I'll even give you another example.
42:40
SPEAKER_02: Like, for example, Raven, for everyone will think is, you know, a scent in the line.
42:45
SPEAKER_02: And I am obsessed because I was obsessed with Edgar Allan Poe.
42:48
SPEAKER_02: And one of the things that always got on my nerves was that people would always depict things that were under the impression of Edgar Allan Poe, like they would use them as inspiration, right?
42:57
SPEAKER_02: But they would completely botch up the look of something or like the feel of something.
43:01
SPEAKER_02: But you nailed it.
43:02
SPEAKER_02: Like Raven, like for everyone listening, if you would know anything about, you know, Poe and you've read his works, and then you try the fragrance and you try the actual, like you go through the experience of that, you're gonna be like, okay, she obviously is a reader, you know what I mean?
43:19
SPEAKER_02: She knows like the vibe, she feels because it is it you have to feel into things.
43:23
SPEAKER_02: And I think that you've just it's just beautiful the way you've um put things together.
43:28
SPEAKER_02: And that, for example, that example um of Raven is is such a perfect one because I like I said, I've seen so many people botch up the idea of you know creating something around the inspo of something dark and gothic, but you know, still very classy, very, you know, memorable.
43:44
SPEAKER_02: And you know, it it just doesn't happen a lot.
43:46
SPEAKER_02: You know, people want it to happen, but they can't achieve it.
43:49
SPEAKER_02: So, but you have so congratulations.
43:52
SPEAKER_01: Oh, thank you.
43:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, I don't think about you you mentioned earlier it is it like homework.
43:57
SPEAKER_01: I don't feel like it's homework.
43:59
SPEAKER_01: I feel like It's sharing something.
44:02
SPEAKER_01: And uh, or for me, when I when I'm creating scent, it really matters to me that it feels relevant now.
44:10
SPEAKER_01: And I say that not from a trend-driven way because, like I said, we don't do marketing reports or do any market testing, frankly.
44:17
SPEAKER_01: Uh, but I'm thinking about it like from a cultural angle.
44:21
SPEAKER_01: So I have two little girls, I have an eight-year-old and six-year-old, both girls.
44:24
SPEAKER_01: And Ellis was my first one after Ellis Brooklyn.
44:27
SPEAKER_01: And then uh my second one is Skye.
44:29
SPEAKER_01: And so when I created the scent for spring, it comes in this really, really feminine, super fun pink bottle.
44:36
SPEAKER_01: And the reason why I did it this way, and the reason why I was thinking about florals and what florals mean to femininity, right?
44:43
SPEAKER_01: Is because my girls play ice hockey.
44:46
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, they'll know, and yet they'll turn around and steal my lip gloss.
44:52
SPEAKER_01: And my six-year-old will put all this glitter on her face and wear the frilliest dresses.
44:57
SPEAKER_01: And my comment for this fragrance is you can be anything, you can be anything on the spectrum of whatever you want to call it, masculinity, femininity, gender, whatever you want to call it, you can be anything.
45:10
SPEAKER_01: And that's how I that's where it really came from.
45:13
SPEAKER_01: And when I'm on TikTok or when I'm on Instagram, I don't, I feel like if you go back maybe five years, you really kind of had to choose, right?
45:21
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I'm more unisex, oh, I'm more this, oh, I'm more that.
45:24
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, we're past that.
45:26
SPEAKER_01: I've I feel like that that moment is gone.
45:28
SPEAKER_01: It's still great to be if you want a gender neutral scent.
45:31
SPEAKER_01: Great, good for you.
45:32
SPEAKER_01: But you can also wear this crazy feminine scent and still be whoever you are.
45:37
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
45:38
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
45:39
SPEAKER_02: Oh my God, I am so with that.
45:41
SPEAKER_02: I am so with that message.
45:42
SPEAKER_02: I love that.
45:43
SPEAKER_02: And that is so powerful what you said.
45:45
SPEAKER_02: Like there's this idea of choice.
45:48
SPEAKER_02: Yes, absolutely.
45:49
SPEAKER_02: And you know, I I completely agree with you.
45:51
SPEAKER_02: Back in our day, it was like, you know, if you played uh a male-dominated sport, you were called a tomboy or something like that.
45:57
SPEAKER_02: And it was like, what the heck?
45:58
SPEAKER_02: No, I just like this sport.
46:00
SPEAKER_02: But no, I hear you.
46:01
SPEAKER_02: And and that is so, I think that's so awesome that you're doing this because the more and more I look at the youth and they're growing up in this world where um the lines are more blurred.
46:11
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
46:12
SPEAKER_02: It's like this is more guidance, I think, something like this, than telling them, like, well, this is what it means to be a girl or this is what it means to be a boy.
46:20
SPEAKER_02: You can't do that anymore, you know?
46:22
SPEAKER_02: And so I'm really glad that you've opened that door and that your brand is standing for something so meaningful that's going to last for generations to come.
46:30
SPEAKER_02: You know, like freedom, I think, you know, the freedom of expression and and finding where you belong is so important, no matter what decade you look at, it's been important for everybody, you know, because it's a part of our growth, it's a part of our maturation as human beings.
46:46
SPEAKER_02: And when you can find a brand or a, you know, a specific perfume or whatever it is for you, that product or that thing in your life that makes you feel like, hey, these are my people, you know what I mean?
46:56
SPEAKER_02: They get me.
46:57
SPEAKER_02: That's timeless, and that's so beautiful.
47:00
SPEAKER_02: So I really uh hats off to you for creating that.
47:03
SPEAKER_02: That's beautiful.
47:04
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
47:05
SPEAKER_01: I know it's so different being first of all, I think that internally I'm really young in that I love TikTok.
47:11
SPEAKER_01: I try to be real.
47:12
SPEAKER_01: I'm like super into anything new.
47:14
SPEAKER_01: So I think there's that inside of me, but I think watching watching a girl grow up and having all these different ways she can be, I think is really interesting to me.
47:24
SPEAKER_01: And um, and going through that very personally.
47:27
SPEAKER_01: So I guess that the the underlying thing behind all this is that I don't think it's homework.
47:31
SPEAKER_01: I think it's a joy to share whatever I created.
47:35
SPEAKER_01: And and and I mean that from like a really, really deep way.
47:39
SPEAKER_01: Like it's so satisfying.
47:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, I know.
47:42
SPEAKER_02: And it it shows in your products, you know, it shows your passion and your vision shows.
47:47
SPEAKER_02: And I think that you can't you can't fake that.
47:49
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
47:50
SPEAKER_02: It's either it's there or it's not.
47:51
SPEAKER_02: And I think that that's what makes for me, Alice Brooklyn stand out so much as a brand, is that everything is unique.
47:59
SPEAKER_02: There's not a single piece in the entire, like whatever collection you're looking at, whether it's the you know, skincare, whether it's the fragrances, whether it's the candles, there's no redundancy.
48:11
SPEAKER_02: It's like beautiful, you know, everything is crafted in a way that is unique to that product or that type of product, and it sits beautifully in any collection.
48:22
SPEAKER_02: And I think that really shows how much thought you've put into it.
48:26
SPEAKER_02: You know, it automatically reflects that.
48:28
SPEAKER_02: So, you know, I'm a huge fan, B.
48:30
SPEAKER_02: I love what you're doing.
48:32
SPEAKER_02: You know, I'm a huge supporter of the brand.
48:34
SPEAKER_02: I know a lot of you listening out there have definitely um, you know, experienced the awesomeness of the moisturizer because I got a lot of emails about that.
48:42
SPEAKER_02: They were actually telling me to interview you because they were like, we love this moisturizer.
48:46
SPEAKER_02: You have to get her on the show.
48:48
SPEAKER_02: Oh, I love it.
48:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, I'm very I'm really glad that we had a chance to sit down and chat because you know, I'm a fan and I know our listeners are a fan of you.
48:57
SPEAKER_02: So, you know, great work and I can't wait to see what you come up with next.
49:01
SPEAKER_02: So thank you so much for this opportunity.
49:03
SPEAKER_01: Oh, thanks for having me.
49:04
SPEAKER_01: This was so fun to chat.
49:06
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
49:07
SPEAKER_02: And for everyone listening, if you could take a minute and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts and Spotify Podcasts, or you know, that would mean the world to us.
49:15
SPEAKER_02: It helps us a lot in terms of our growth.
49:17
SPEAKER_02: And I hope you love this episode with me.
49:19
SPEAKER_02: And if you have any questions at all for the Ellis Brooklyn team, please leave them in the comment section.
49:23
SPEAKER_02: I will pass them along to her team.
49:25
SPEAKER_02: And yeah, I will be back next time.
49:28
SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
49:31
SPEAKER_02: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
49:34
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49:38
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49:41
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49:56
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50:03
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50:13
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50:16
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50:21
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50:27
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50:33
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50:38
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.