Latest / The Vance Crowe Podcast / Celebrating The Life and Death of Peter G. Scotese

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Celebrating The Life and Death of Peter G. Scotese · The Vance Crowe Podcast

• 00:00:00:00 - 00:00:05:28 Speaker 1 you know, I remember, you know, when I killed my first person and still in my up here, 00:00:05:28 - 00:00:09:13 Speaker 1 pulled out their identification to see if they had any stuff on them about, 00:00:09:13 - 00:00:12:20 Speaker 1 about the unit or whatever, and see pictures of their 00:00:12:20 - 00:00:14:01 Speaker 1 wife, their children, 00:00:14:01 - 00:00:16:13 Speaker 1 their human being, just like all the rest of the. 00:00:16:13 - 00:00:17:28 Speaker 1 And one way I would 00:00:17:28 - 00:00:19:01 Speaker 1 categorize 00:00:19:01 - 00:00:19:25 Speaker 1 a friend would 00:00:19:25 - 00:00:21:13 Speaker 1 be in my own mind 00:00:21:13 - 00:00:22:14 Speaker 1 if I were 00:00:22:14 - 00:00:23:06 Speaker 1 committed 00:00:23:06 - 00:00:24:18 Speaker 1 to a destination 00:00:24:18 - 00:00:25:24 Speaker 1 for eternity. 00:00:25:24 - 00:00:26:24 Speaker 1 Who would I take 00:00:26:24 - 00:00:30:06 Speaker 1 particularly with millennials. I find that the parents often 00:00:30:06 - 00:00:31:16 Speaker 1 will try to guide 00:00:31:16 - 00:00:33:26 Speaker 1 their children through channels that 00:00:33:26 - 00:00:38:18 Speaker 1 that they're comfortable they, the parents are comfortable with because it worked for them. 00:00:38:18 - 00:00:41:18 Speaker 1 And I often counsel with parents about the fact that 00:00:41:18 - 00:00:50:01 Speaker 1 their children have grown up in a totally different environment and that they should give them slack as my grant, my son said 00:00:50:01 - 00:00:52:13 Speaker 2 what do you think happens when you die? 00:00:53:21 - 00:00:57:03 Speaker 1 I've thought about it a great deal. 00:00:59:24 - 00:01:09:24 Speaker 1 I'm Jeremy Laycock, a retirement community CEO living in Eureka, Illinois, and you are listening to the Vance Crowe podcast. 00:01:09:24 - 00:01:35:18 Speaker 1 Welcome back to the podcast. I'm glad you're here. It is with both joy and sadness that I convey to you that Peter G. Scott's a great man, has died. Pete was my mentor. I met him when I was in my late 20s, and I had no idea how profoundly my life was about to change. I encountered this man who, even though he was in his 80s, he still drank martinis. 00:01:35:18 - 00:02:04:05 Speaker 1 And when did he go out to dinner? And he would sit around and talk with me about whatever I was interested in. I wasn't the only person that Pete touched. In fact, throughout all of his life, I'm sure hundreds if not thousands of people look back on meeting Pete and see it as a pivotal moment where somebody helped them to understand just how much agency they have in this world, just how much their dignity and their integrity was completely under their own control. 00:02:04:05 - 00:02:32:11 Speaker 1 And based on what you added to the world. Pete is an amazing person. He was born an orphan that worked his way up to becoming the president of one of the largest textile manufacturing companies in the world. He was a war hero that single handedly saved the leader of the Dutch resistance. I mean, this is. No kidding. We would go to his house and I would look through books, and there were ticker tape parades that people in Amsterdam were putting on for him. 00:02:32:13 - 00:03:03:06 Speaker 1 Years and years after the war. Pete was such a humble guy, but always willing to talk and share and really help me to understand the wider world. Things I couldn't see on my own. But the truly beautiful and magnificent part about Pete was his optimism, was his continued belief that you could do something, that there was always a possibility to make things better, and that you always had some control over what was going on in your life. 00:03:03:08 - 00:03:30:04 Speaker 1 I loved Pete. He taught me about art. He prepared me to be a great conversationalist, and he really pushed me to think more of myself than even I did. In fact, I often tell the story about how Pete got me to quit smoking and not a moment too soon, because a couple of weeks later, I met the woman that became my wife, and if I had still been smoking, there is no chance she would have married me. 00:03:30:07 - 00:03:52:13 Speaker 1 I can think of hundreds of examples of tiny changes that happened in my life as a result of Pete. And so, to honor his life, I'd like to share this interview with you. I did it with Pete about four years ago. He was still a bright, shiny, excited guy. We were still getting together for drinks and we would go, I'm little walks and out to dinner. 00:03:52:16 - 00:04:00:20 Speaker 1 I was visiting him in his apartment in New York City, and I had my wife with me, who also got to know Pete quite well. 00:04:00:22 - 00:04:20:19 Speaker 1 One of the things that you may be thinking during this interview is that you were not fortunate enough to have a mentor like Pete in your life. I can understand that. I didn't do anything to deserve the amount of mentorship and caring that I had from Pete. And so it was basically pure luck that I had that chance. 00:04:20:22 - 00:04:54:07 Speaker 1 But if you're sitting here and you're thinking about your misfortune for not having had that relationship, I would urge you to instead of thinking about what you didn't have, try to become that thing for someone else. Try to become the mentor that's patient, that listens, that takes notes, and really deeply cares and shows that they care. By always being honest with their mentee, I hope that you listen to this interview and you really enjoy and embrace a truly rare and extraordinary human being. 00:04:54:10 - 00:05:12:04 Speaker 1 I want to say one note to my sister, Taryn. I am so grateful that we got to share the experience of being one of Pete's orphans together. And now, without further ado, I'd like to head to the interview with my dear friend Pete. 00:05:12:04 - 00:05:14:09 Speaker 2 Pete. Welcome to the podcast. 00:05:14:12 - 00:05:15:12 Speaker 1 Glad to be here. 00:05:15:15 - 00:05:56:15 Speaker 2 So I put it out on Twitter and Facebook that you and I were going to sit down and talk. My mentor. That helped me learn how to be a professional in the world and how to be a man of integrity. And I asked, what questions would you have for a person that's turning 100 years old this year? And I got a whole bunch of questions, but I thought maybe a good one to start on is actually something that you and I have talked about several times, and it's really pretty personal, but it's something that everybody faces, which is what do you think happens when you die? 00:05:56:17 - 00:06:12:18 Speaker 1 I've thought about it a great deal. It's a damn good question. And it's in a lot of people's mind. 00:06:12:20 - 00:06:18:19 Speaker 1 It's hard to answer. I don't really have. 00:06:18:22 - 00:06:30:07 Speaker 1 A a strong point of view about it. We do have a universe. I do feel that there's a. 00:06:30:10 - 00:07:11:15 Speaker 1 A greater force need of whether the force is religious or or whatever, and it's kind of. Been puzzling to me, as to what might happen in the Catholic Church. Of course. I grew up with the notion that you either went to hell, purgatory, or heaven. I've kind of outgrown, I wouldn't say outgrown, but I find that difficult to absorb at this stage in my life. 00:07:11:17 - 00:07:42:18 Speaker 1 And while I've allowed myself to dwell on the answer to your question, when I read from Einsteins book out of my later years and figure out that he hasn't figured it out yet. I don't waste a hell of a lot of time. I figured if he couldn't figure it out, he'd probably that. It's going to be difficult to me, and I think it's one of the things that I. 00:07:42:20 - 00:08:29:27 Speaker 1 As I look forward to my own demise. I'm concerned that there's a probability that I will never again be in contact with friends, family, relatives that I've gotten to know over a lifetime and that, being cremated, I just wonder if I go into it. I would say that maybe the Buddhism philosophy of nothingness is the. 00:08:29:29 - 00:09:25:12 Speaker 1 Is what I'll be in nothingness. But nothingness can be ecstasy. And so I kind of semi rationalize my feeling as being. One where I go into a nothingness which would be equivalent to you're going to bed at night, getting into a deep sleep and not waking up. I've had the experience of, of of of the tunnel, the tunnel of light, which is me written up and where people feel them selves going down a light tunnel when they're dying and into this magnificent, resplendent room and get a very ecstatic feeling. 00:09:25:12 - 00:09:41:26 Speaker 1 And then the lights go out. And I thought I was unique in having that experience. But I talk to someone who interprets dreams, and they put me online. I found out a lot of people have that vision of a tunnel of light. 00:09:41:26 - 00:09:43:20 Speaker 2 When did that happen? What was going on? 00:09:43:22 - 00:10:13:03 Speaker 1 That happened about ten years ago. Interestingly, the director of spiritual welfare at Marquette, the father John, now who was a Jesuit priest, was, a houseguest of mine when that happened. Oh, really? but I thought nothing of it. I never even talked to him about it. I just said that was a funny dream. So I walked all around. 00:10:13:03 - 00:10:27:28 Speaker 1 Your question, and I haven't given you an answer. Except that I think. I'm not capable of giving you an answer. I'm only capable. Give you my feeling. 00:10:28:01 - 00:10:49:29 Speaker 2 You know, you said that you talked about your friendships and all of your family that you would want to see again. Yeah. Friendship and family is maybe the biggest part of your life. No. What do you think you've learned or what has changed about the way you thought about friendship? Now that you're 99, as opposed to when you were, say, my age? 00:10:50:05 - 00:10:50:08 Speaker 2 Yeah. 00:10:50:09 - 00:11:24:26 Speaker 1 I think as I got older and my later years. Since friends are family, you choose. I found that my friendships for every bit as strong emotionally and otherwise with friends as they were and are with family. So friend became a vital part of my existence. for that reason, 00:11:24:28 - 00:12:09:03 Speaker 1 yeah. And I, in my case, I thought about friends in categories. And one way I would categorize a friend would be in my own mind if I were committed to a destination for eternity. And I could take my family, my immediate family and five friends with me for the rest of time. Who would I take among my friend? 00:12:09:05 - 00:12:44:22 Speaker 1 And it was a way of kind of sorting out who might be the most important, and it could be someone who was demise. And I often and and I thought, well, you know, I would hate to limit it to five because when I look back on life, I have a whole trial, a whole trail of people who I were friend, mentors and, who I would not wish to give up if I had any choice at all. 00:12:44:24 - 00:12:50:29 Speaker 2 Did you notice any patterns emerge about the type of people you considered for those five? 00:12:51:01 - 00:13:32:25 Speaker 1 They were always people who, had leadership qualities. Where I learned. where they had a side to them, experience wise and other wise, which was different from mine, so that I would could learn a great deal from them. and where their interests were broad, not narrow and deep, so that we could talk on a broad range of subjects when we were talking both personal, whether it was in field of art or business or or whatever. 00:13:32:27 - 00:13:45:13 Speaker 1 So there are people with very broad ranging interests and not not narrow and deep in how they lived and thought. 00:13:45:16 - 00:14:12:27 Speaker 2 Much of what I learned about friendship as an adult came from you and I speaking a lot about various problems that I would have or, challenges that you face along the way. What what changed with you over time with, with, friendships that you were able to cultivate as an older person as opposed to when you were a young person? 00:14:12:29 - 00:14:15:29 Speaker 1 The question is, I mean you friend. 00:14:16:02 - 00:14:22:26 Speaker 2 Yeah. I mean, you have, still many, many friendships, but they're different now in some way. 00:14:22:29 - 00:15:19:14 Speaker 1 I find. That in my older friendships, I was more on the tutoring, giving hand and not the recipient as much as it was in the earlier friendships. So it was I was kind of moving from mentor to mentor. but assembling, collecting friends in the same way. But with a different, not a different purpose, but with different conversations, different discussion, different, outputs and inputs. 00:15:19:16 - 00:15:47:18 Speaker 2 Ever since I've known you, we have you have surrounded yourself with many, many young people. I was around, but there were many other. Yeah. And a lot of them beautiful young women and, people excited about life and into the art. I think you are living the dream of an older person. How did you continue to be able to find and cultivate relationships with young people as you got older and older? 00:15:47:19 - 00:15:53:10 Speaker 2 And most old people, older people don't don't have those relationships? 00:15:53:12 - 00:16:26:28 Speaker 1 Well, interestingly, many of the people you're talking about, the younger were members of second, third and even fourth generation, people that my wife and I, my wife of 75 years and I knew way back, way, way back. And after Millie died, the children of the people that Bill and I knew chose to stay in touch with me. 00:16:27:00 - 00:16:47:13 Speaker 1 And then the children's children didn't. And beyond that, but as we grew and developed our relationship, they seemed to come to me for advice and counsel. But they also would suggest to their friends, and hey, you got a problem? You may want to talk to Peter. 00:16:47:13 - 00:16:48:10 Speaker 2 But I do. 00:16:48:10 - 00:17:25:27 Speaker 1 That. So I think, I was fortunate enough to, to become kind of a, a mentor to a lot of people who were close to me, but who had friends that were close to them, and they felt my benefit from these kinds of discussion. And I've enjoyed doing that. And it's more importantly, I guess it's it's I've benefited from the fact that many of them are so much younger that I'm learning a lot about. 00:17:25:29 - 00:17:36:10 Speaker 1 I am learning a lot about the younger generation and the way they act and behave and think and feel motion in another way. 00:17:36:12 - 00:17:57:10 Speaker 2 There are two qualities that you have that I think make you, person that people are drawn to that for many reasons. You have a lot of wisdom. But there's two things I think in particular. The first one is you have almost no judgment of people, like if they're doing something that is not, without integrity, you don't have time for that. 00:17:57:10 - 00:18:17:25 Speaker 2 But when people have a completely different way of living their life. Yeah, you're very open to that. And the other thing that you do that I find extraordinary is if I were to say, hey, we're thinking about coming to visit you, you always say, okay, get out your calendar, get your pencil out. You never wait to get things scheduled. 00:18:17:25 - 00:18:25:24 Speaker 2 That seems to me to be one of the things that was really important to you. Having all these relationships is you didn't put off scheduling. 00:18:25:27 - 00:18:40:29 Speaker 1 That's a good point. That's a good point. I hadn't thought about it, but I think if you're sincere about people visiting or whatever, you should say, all right, let's do it. Let's put in an account. Let's make it happen. 00:18:41:02 - 00:18:41:22 Speaker 2 Yeah. And I think. 00:18:41:22 - 00:18:44:06 Speaker 1 Most not just lead people on. 00:18:44:07 - 00:18:49:18 Speaker 2 Right. Do you ever tell people you don't want to see them? I mean, like, is my experience with, you know. 00:18:49:18 - 00:19:14:17 Speaker 1 I'll say I can't see you then, but let's make another date within the next day or two or now, because I think by indicating, by not doing that, you're indicating that there. That you're not anxious to proceed and have a relationship or to see them to prioritize it. 00:19:14:18 - 00:19:14:26 Speaker 2 Yeah. 00:19:14:26 - 00:19:41:23 Speaker 1 Yeah. So I that's that's a good point you made. I think if you want to be sincere with people, and then you have got to be, very positive about those kinds of reaction. Yes. I do want to see you. Yes. Let's make the date. So you're indicating to him by that alone? Yeah. Hey, you. You're important to this guy or to this girl or to this. 00:19:42:00 - 00:20:08:02 Speaker 2 You're my natural reaction is to procrastinate putting something down on the calendar. But since I've made the observation that that's one of the ways that you've kept so many good relationships is really made a big difference to me. When, when I look around at the world right now, it seems crazy, right? We're right across from Trump Tower over there, and we know that the UN in the US have all these problems. 00:20:08:02 - 00:20:32:05 Speaker 2 It seems hyper chaotic. but that may just be because it's the present day and it always feels chaotic with 100 years of time. Do you feel like now is a particularly chaotic and dangerous time, or is this just the cycle of life? 00:20:32:07 - 00:20:43:28 Speaker 1 I'm not sure it's more chaotic, but I'm double damn sure that it's that we're being more informed about the chaos. 00:20:44:01 - 00:20:44:27 Speaker 2 Oh. 00:20:44:29 - 00:21:14:20 Speaker 1 And I think the difference was in the early days, 50, 100 years, we did not have the means of instant communication that we now have. We didn't have the tools of relating that we now have, and more importantly, that we have on the horizon, whether it's a one or for cloud computing or 3D printing or whatever. And I think you've struck on another vital point. 00:21:14:21 - 00:21:33:07 Speaker 1 And that is, the speed with which information technology is changing are coming on stream and changing the lives of everyone on the planet. 00:21:33:10 - 00:21:49:29 Speaker 1 A huge, so namely of information, and information gathering and information cascading that people are going to have to sort through. 00:21:50:01 - 00:22:21:13 Speaker 2 It seems like it was the automatic. It seemed like everybody believed, hey, when the internet comes in, we can all be connected with one another, right? That it will by just default be good, right? It will all be positive, right? And we did not predict, at least when I was in first grade or, you know, sixth grade when people were talking about the internet, nobody said, well, one of the consequences that's going to come is you're going to know and be outraged about things that are so far away from you, and yet that that will become a part of your life because you're so interconnected with information. 00:22:21:20 - 00:22:22:29 Speaker 1 Among other things. 00:22:23:01 - 00:22:24:17 Speaker 2 Among other things. 00:22:24:19 - 00:22:58:17 Speaker 1 And the other thing is what the internet can promote. That's, Like, I think New York Time devoted 1 or 2 pages to the promotion of child pornography because of the internet. Right. And their ability to reach the predator's ability to reach, children directly. So the internet's creating a as I said earlier, a tsunami of problem as well as opportunity. 00:22:58:19 - 00:23:22:12 Speaker 2 It's interesting that so many young people come to you to ask for advice, whether they're jazz musicians or artists or students or business, because you're not a part of the day to day hustle of, of, 3D printing and virtual reality and these things. Why do you think people are so drawn to mentors that have such long time? 00:23:22:12 - 00:24:05:25 Speaker 1 Because I think they're looking for an anchor. That's that. That's not emotional. emotionally, that that drive, not their emotions, but but their logic. They're looking for more things that are, more constant in their lives. And I, I think they find that I'm living and have lived a life that I've enjoyed thoroughly. Left a large footprint, and that they have that kind of a life to look forward to. 00:24:05:25 - 00:25:04:06 Speaker 1 Also, if they navigate properly through this labyrinth of information technology, that's that's creating so much, you know, in a way of uncertainties in every level of everything they do. So it's comforting for them to talk to someone who, in this climate of uncertainty, can offer basic advice and also, lay some of the fears they have about, their own futures, about jobs, about their passion for about what they want to do ten years from now, five years from now about their employment, the what they like about it or don't like about it. 00:25:04:09 - 00:25:10:02 Speaker 1 so I, I represent the past with an understanding of the future. 00:25:10:05 - 00:25:19:19 Speaker 2 Yeah. I think that's probably right. Yeah. You've probably had to hear the same questions and concerns from all the young people that walk in here. 00:25:19:22 - 00:26:19:22 Speaker 1 And I think their parents, in many cases, do not do that. Their parents try to, particularly with millennials. I find that the parents often will try to call it manipulate, but will try to guide their children through channels that that they're comfortable they, the parents are comfortable with because it worked for them. And I often counsel with parents about the fact that their children have grown up in a totally different environment and that they should give them slack as my grant, my son said in coming to their own conclusion, over time, I think that's probably the single biggest rift between teenagers and parents, particularly among the younger generation, where even. 00:26:19:22 - 00:26:23:16 Speaker 2 People in their 20s, I mean, oh, yeah. Really? Oh, yeah. Go ahead. No. 00:26:23:18 - 00:26:24:04 Speaker 1 Yeah, right. 00:26:24:04 - 00:26:37:25 Speaker 2 I up what did you find difficult about being a mentor? I mean, like you, you have to watch people navigate and go through. I mean, there are times in my life you were watching me have no idea what I was going to do. 00:26:37:27 - 00:26:40:00 Speaker 1 Yeah. What do you say? What? What was your what is. 00:26:40:00 - 00:26:42:02 Speaker 2 Difficult about being a mentor? 00:26:42:04 - 00:26:44:02 Speaker 1 Not nothing, as far as I'm concerned. 00:26:44:03 - 00:26:45:14 Speaker 2 Well, that's great. 00:26:45:17 - 00:27:00:01 Speaker 1 I mean, I don't fret about it. I don't I think I'm comfortable in the advice I give because I never give. I never suggested this is what you should do. 00:27:00:01 - 00:27:00:27 Speaker 2 That's right. 00:27:01:00 - 00:27:27:02 Speaker 1 I think my advice is always based on my own life. Here are some alternatives. Where in the set of circumstances you just described might work for you, think about them, but think about others that might come up. Why do you do that? So I never say, I think what you should do. Is it parents have a tendency to say, here's what you should do. 00:27:27:02 - 00:27:29:28 Speaker 2 Yeah, you can't really I think. 00:27:30:00 - 00:27:47:20 Speaker 1 so what I offer most is a potpourri of recommendation that they can choose from that work for me, that might lead them to use one of them, or may give them an idea for, for for another approach to the. 00:27:47:22 - 00:27:51:24 Speaker 2 Who is who is a pivotal mentor to you as you were growing up? 00:27:51:28 - 00:28:24:11 Speaker 1 Well, I had, I was very fortunate, because I didn't have a father. My father died shortly after I was born. I was went to an orphanage where for nine years. And we had excellent teachers, and some of them stayed in my memory and were mentors long after I left the institution. one was a teacher named Doctor James White who influenced my life when I was in there. 00:28:24:12 - 00:28:30:05 Speaker 1 Matter of fact, saved me from getting kicked out of the institution and became a friend for the rest. 00:28:30:05 - 00:28:32:05 Speaker 2 That saved you from getting kicked out. What did you do? 00:28:32:06 - 00:28:57:26 Speaker 1 Well, I did, I was a pretty bad boy. I went over the wall for ten days. I was caught smoking in the shower room. I punched a counselor. oh. I, also went into the new chapel while it was being built. It went up in the rafters, threw a crowbar or a watchman. and so they were going to exit me. 00:28:57:28 - 00:29:22:18 Speaker 1 My mother came in and pleaded with them to keep me, give me another chance. And this teacher, Doctor James de white, white said, I'm taking PE. I think he has a lot of good quality. I'll take responsibility for him from here on out. We'll give him another chance. At that point, I had two very objectionable and three unsatisfactory, which meant out you go. 00:29:22:21 - 00:29:51:09 Speaker 1 What I never knew until after I graduated was that when I was put in the Girard College first grade, that my mother had to sign an indenture paper, the same as slave. I was indentured to that college. She could not interfere with my life or they would kick me out. Wow, I had to. I had to live under their structure, their methodology. 00:29:51:11 - 00:30:01:03 Speaker 1 Best thing ever happened. I could still see her and do all the other things, but they she could not interfere with what they did, how they did it. 00:30:01:05 - 00:30:08:07 Speaker 2 What ultimately got you to straighten up because of it? There's a sword in there of you being the drill instructor for the whole. 00:30:08:09 - 00:30:36:25 Speaker 1 Yeah, well, I after I repented and I, I went, turned around, became a good boy, I became captain, my battalion. I became, a member of the National Honor Society. Him head of the yearbook, captain of the gym team. So I did convert, rather rapidly to doing things that were more constructive. 00:30:36:28 - 00:30:42:27 Speaker 2 What do you think was driving you to be the type of person that was getting in trouble in the first place? 00:30:42:29 - 00:31:09:14 Speaker 1 Adventure. Just. I'm not say, but it was adventuresome. Matter of fact, when I went over the wall, I was over for ten days and finally got so hungry, got tired of stealing bread from, the store front and was getting hungry. I flagged a police car and asked him, take me back home, take me to Girard. And he said, why'd you come back? 00:31:09:14 - 00:31:25:14 Speaker 1 I said, Because I'm hungry. There's I got news for you. There's a, epidemic of of, to then what? There was an epidemic. And you're going to have to be quarantined for 48 hours, and you can't eat anything. 00:31:25:16 - 00:31:30:21 Speaker 2 And so after you were hungry enough to come home, they told you you will go two more days without eating. 00:31:30:23 - 00:31:46:07 Speaker 1 And I could not get any. They need or two because I was quarantined. Made sure I didn't have the disease. Wow. Because it was transferable polio. There was a polio epidemic. Wow. Polio was deadly then. 00:31:46:14 - 00:31:50:28 Speaker 2 And how common was it for people that did you know, people that got polio? 00:31:51:00 - 00:32:04:09 Speaker 1 I knew that, I knew I knew we had polio out there. Yeah. And, but it's just an aside. The fact that I fool myself because it didn't, I know doing. 00:32:04:09 - 00:32:08:01 Speaker 2 For those ten days that you had gone over the wall. 00:32:08:04 - 00:32:38:25 Speaker 1 Not much. Where'd you get it? I slept in a field. I had another guy with me, but I had been, standing up, in a corner for punishment in one of the counselors rooms. he went to bed, went to sleep, and he shoved a hair, a dresser against the wall. But I opened the window and got out through the window while he was sleeping. 00:32:38:28 - 00:32:47:06 Speaker 1 So I escaped from that punishment. Went over the wall. but it wasn't. 00:32:47:09 - 00:32:50:16 Speaker 2 And then you went on and, joined the military. 00:32:50:19 - 00:33:21:19 Speaker 1 When in the military, I was always adventuresome, so I, I transferred when I was transferred from anti-aircraft artillery to, to infantry. I volunteered for parachute infantry because it it was adventuresome, more adventurous. And for the infantry. And I got paid 100 bucks a month extra. That was a big deal during the depression. Yeah, $100 a month on top of my officer's pay. 00:33:21:23 - 00:33:31:28 Speaker 2 When you look back on the span of time, are there things that you regret not doing? Were there adventures you didn't go on that you wish you had gone on? 00:33:32:00 - 00:34:18:26 Speaker 1 The only thing I've thought about. Was if I had my life to live over, I would live in another country, another culture. Yeah, for at least a year. I think it's vital that you. We don't think that American democracy is the only form of. And even though I traveled a great deal, it was never though I had to live there among the population and understand their religion and understand their everything about them, and realize that they are because they're not a democracy, that they're still a damn good way of life. 00:34:18:26 - 00:34:37:15 Speaker 1 And so and I and I think our foreign relations suffer from the fact that in my memory, only George, only Bush senior ever lived overseas. Really, he lived for one year when he was in the CIA. 00:34:37:17 - 00:34:39:23 Speaker 2 And that's a different kind of lives. Yeah. 00:34:39:26 - 00:35:03:04 Speaker 1 So we we don't have we don't have presidents that understand foreign policy because they haven't lived in another culture. I was stunned when I went to China in the 1970s and saw how primitive. And but on the move, China was. 00:35:03:06 - 00:35:06:09 Speaker 2 why did you go in the 1970s? You were one of the first people to go. 00:35:06:09 - 00:35:31:27 Speaker 1 I was able, because we had invited their textile group, Chinese Technical Group, to come and visit our mills. I was the head of Springs Industries that and during that visit they said, have you ever been to China? I said, no, would you like to go? Yes. This was in May or June. They said, you'll hear from us in September. 00:35:31:29 - 00:36:10:00 Speaker 1 That, by the way, we did not have, embassy. They had we had a representative from China and, on the ground here. But I got a little note that they would receive me in, Beijing in September or so and so and so and so. And I had to go by way of Hong Kong. So I took Millie and a couple of people from our company flew to Hong Kong over flew, flew around Korea, landed in Beijing and were hosted by the Japanese Textile Department for ten days. 00:36:10:02 - 00:36:19:25 Speaker 1 So I was lucky, but I was stunned by the by how what what how different China was the US. 00:36:19:28 - 00:36:24:03 Speaker 2 What sticks out to you most about what you saw? 00:36:24:06 - 00:36:30:14 Speaker 1 What? How manpower. 00:36:30:16 - 00:37:06:05 Speaker 1 Can produce. Sheer manpower can produce as much as machine power. Because of its numbers, there were a million bicycle on the streets of Beijing. Scaffolding was built by hand of bamboo, and they tied at every corner. But it was going up, up, up, inevitably. But the sheer weight of people at work. was what drove that, that economy. 00:37:06:08 - 00:37:18:25 Speaker 2 So you went from being an orphan all the way up to being the CEO of the largest textile manufacturing company in the world, the rags to riches. Do you think that that is still possible in today's America? 00:37:19:01 - 00:37:50:17 Speaker 1 That's a good question. By the way. It wasn't rags to riches because the textile industry didn't pay that well. And they were. And that's they did not give their chief executives a the huge sum that they get today. Hundreds of million, right? 50 million. That was unthinkable in those day. And we manage, I would say, from the bottom up, we made sure our entry level employees were happy. 00:37:50:19 - 00:38:00:01 Speaker 1 We fed them well, we, we, they ate from they used glassware and China and hot food and. 00:38:00:08 - 00:38:06:10 Speaker 2 Yeah, that's worth it. You talk about they were factory workers that came in and had like real China. Yeah. And as opposed to. 00:38:06:10 - 00:38:32:00 Speaker 1 Just like us. And even though we didn't pay a lot entry level, we gave them a secure job with company stores where they could buy goods wholesale. We had clinics where they go for their health. So, it wasn't. Yeah. I liked the idea that we were oriented to our employees, but it started at the bottom, made sure that people at the bottom were well taken care of them. 00:38:32:00 - 00:38:52:02 Speaker 1 What? And we put limits on what people like myself, a CEO could get in terms of salary. And if I got salaries and bonuses, all the people below me had to get were moved up. So you had to think about that. 00:38:52:04 - 00:38:55:21 Speaker 2 oh. So if you increase yourself, you had three separate. 00:38:55:23 - 00:38:56:00 Speaker 1 Yeah. 00:38:56:07 - 00:38:57:26 Speaker 2 We didn't just take your percentage. 00:38:57:26 - 00:39:06:06 Speaker 1 That's right. They had to be within. They couldn't be. I couldn't be more than 10% above the next level. 00:39:06:09 - 00:39:07:23 Speaker 2 Well, that does not happen now. 00:39:07:23 - 00:39:12:27 Speaker 1 No. Oh, God. No. They pay them. It's egregious. What's happening now? 00:39:12:29 - 00:39:15:03 Speaker 2 You think so? You think that they're paying? 00:39:15:03 - 00:39:49:01 Speaker 1 Oh, yeah. Oh, they're paying much too much for CEO. They're paying. And then that's why there's a more and more spread between middle class and, the rich richer getting richer. And the other I mean, I think there's, there's been a mishandling of, human resources in that connection where there's too much emphasis on compensation at the top and not enough emphasis on, yeah. 00:39:49:06 - 00:39:53:07 Speaker 1 Pardon me, you know, everybody else. 00:39:53:11 - 00:39:59:15 Speaker 2 Do you think that will ever change, or do you do you think this is the new normal forever that CEOs will make? 00:39:59:17 - 00:40:32:27 Speaker 1 35 I don't think we can predict. I think it's awful hard to disengage. From that kind of egregious payment. Now, I realize that people in many companies are entitled to whatever, you know, they're employing a lot of people and they're helping the economy, but that this is happening across the board, where more and more top executives are, are being overcompensated. 00:40:33:03 - 00:40:40:13 Speaker 2 Well, you wrote about that even in, in. Yeah, I read about it in a book that you where did you write about that? Was it Harvard Business Review or. 00:40:40:14 - 00:41:03:24 Speaker 1 No. Yeah, I wrote it for the Harvard Business Review about golden parachutes, where if your company got bought out, you got a golden, you got a huge bonus. So they were saying, in effect, run your company into the ground, somebody will buy it. And you, you have a golden parachute. We'll pay you off to leave. Like your company. 00:41:03:26 - 00:41:07:14 Speaker 2 I was going to ask you about. What do you think about. Oh, that Monsanto. You're. 00:41:07:14 - 00:41:24:19 Speaker 1 Oh, my God, I sent them. The package they gave him was incredible. And I never saw enough publicity about that. Here's a country is going to hell in a handbasket. Drive down the stock price of the company is acquiring them and gets this half. How much was about it? 00:41:24:22 - 00:41:28:06 Speaker 2 Yeah. It was. It was a lot. Yeah. By the time he walked. 00:41:28:08 - 00:41:32:00 Speaker 1 100 million. sorry that. 00:41:32:03 - 00:41:48:04 Speaker 2 It was interesting because now that the deal has gone through and the roundup lawsuits happened that bear their stock price is now worth less than the price they paid for Monsanto. That's crazy. 00:41:48:07 - 00:42:00:10 Speaker 1 They want to fire the guy from Monsanto and the guy from Bayer. And and, And. Yeah, that's a whole no. 00:42:00:13 - 00:42:15:14 Speaker 2 So when when you think about the compensation that a sea level person gets, they're they're running multi-billion dollar companies, what should they be paid if it's not as much as they're getting paid now? 00:42:15:17 - 00:42:33:25 Speaker 1 Well, I think when you look at compensation, you look at it in terms of total compensation, the way to look at total compensation, it's that person where they leave the company. What expenses would drop out? 00:42:33:28 - 00:43:05:12 Speaker 1 You have corporate jets. You have, health care, you pension, you have, profit sharing. You have, special incentives over, programs and sent over 4 or 5 year program. You have to use the corporate jet. you know, when you look at the package, the whole pay package, it's it's substantial. 00:43:05:19 - 00:43:14:19 Speaker 2 Yeah. I think most people that have not worked inside of a large corporation, they don't even know that there are stock options. And there's all sorts. 00:43:14:21 - 00:43:14:29 Speaker 1 Yeah. 00:43:15:00 - 00:43:22:00 Speaker 2 Dividends that you can escape. Right. And I'm sure that as you move up in a corporation, it gets bigger and bigger and bigger. 00:43:22:00 - 00:43:54:19 Speaker 1 I'll tell you the best, it response I can give you is I looked at a general, I'm going to say a either a General Electric or a American Express. Annual report once 17 pages of the annual report were devoted to executive compensation, 17 of 85 pages. That's how complicated. 00:43:54:19 - 00:43:55:10 Speaker 2 Yeah. 00:43:55:12 - 00:44:06:26 Speaker 1 Come on, you know, you could I could explain my compensation in one paragraph. I know at at Springs, I was perfectly content with it. 00:44:06:29 - 00:44:12:10 Speaker 2 What sort of a CEO were you? What did you care about? What made you stand out? 00:44:12:12 - 00:44:36:04 Speaker 1 Results. The bottom line is. What did you do for the company? When I went there, it was doing 250 million a year and losing money. When I left, it was doing almost a billion a year, had 30 million in cash in the bank and was making money, a lot of money. 00:44:36:06 - 00:44:38:23 Speaker 2 What were the things that you did to make it so successful? 00:44:38:23 - 00:45:12:10 Speaker 1 Closed, looked over all the assets we owned. And so what those assets were returning and I closed down plants in Indonesia. I closed down in Texas, plant in Indonesia, I closed down, I wrote it down to a dollar, closed down the a carpet plant in Georgia, closed down a plant we just built North Carolina for kitchen cotton and closed down a plant in oh. 00:45:12:10 - 00:45:42:25 Speaker 1 I had a double knit, plant in Monroe, North Carolina. So I closed and then I took the, over the counter piece. Good. top of the bed and bath products and apparel, fabrics which were flourishing. Put the money from the closed plants into those businesses that were doing well and making money and expanded those. And you also got a foreign presence. 00:45:42:27 - 00:46:00:10 Speaker 1 Start farm stuff out there. And where we got we decided we would oversell and buy excess production from, instead of building excess production, we would buy excess production from from other people. 00:46:00:13 - 00:46:07:26 Speaker 2 From other factories, from other companies. Yeah. And when you're making these big decisions, I mean, shutting down a factory that changes. 00:46:07:28 - 00:46:32:11 Speaker 1 Yeah. No, I had trouble with, you know, they looked at me like I had three head. And in one case, you know, the boss who been there for a long time said, We're not going to do it. And I said, look, yeah, well, I shouldn't say the public good, but I just said, we can't waste the family's assets. 00:46:32:11 - 00:46:35:06 Speaker 1 We just. We have to do it. I mean. 00:46:35:08 - 00:46:48:17 Speaker 2 You hit these moments in your life where you're doing big things. How did you handle that? There's a question whether or not you're right. Right. You're going to take an action, and it's going to be a little bit of time before you find out whether or not it's right or not. 00:46:48:18 - 00:46:49:16 Speaker 1 Yeah. 00:46:49:18 - 00:46:54:12 Speaker 2 How did you manage the stress of making those kinds of choices? 00:46:54:15 - 00:47:29:16 Speaker 1 Well, it's a good question, but I, I was comfortable in my own skin because I knew damn well that the decisions I had made were right and would produce the right results. And within six months, I think, you know, we things started to change around everybody else. By the way, I said, if you have if you stick with me these changes, I'll make all of you a little bit rich because they're profit sharing and everything else would go off. 00:47:29:18 - 00:47:30:05 Speaker 1 And I did. 00:47:30:13 - 00:47:44:04 Speaker 2 During this time when you were in the textiles, you started to, get involved in the art scene or kind of cross between art and textiles. Describe that. What, what what did you do there that was so unique? 00:47:44:09 - 00:48:15:01 Speaker 1 Well, we, sponsored, in we spotted one of our paint locations. We sponsored, a Springs art show that's from the spring art show. And, once a year, we had an Art of the Carolinas exhibit where people, whether they were artists or not, could bring it, show it for a month. We would have a, a museum director look them over. 00:48:15:03 - 00:48:44:01 Speaker 1 Picked first, second, third prizes, travel those around for a year, exposing the artists. And, so spring was engaged in the arts that way. And then we sponsored, with the Museum of Modern Art photography. Now, at the rate of 250,000 a year, promoting young photographers because we felt that photography was an incoming art form. We did that for ten. 00:48:44:01 - 00:48:48:03 Speaker 2 Years and it wasn't popular before you did that. Photography. 00:48:48:06 - 00:49:04:23 Speaker 1 It was popular, but it was not an art form. It wasn't considered a real art form. Oh, it was popular because everybody had a camera. Everybody children know. But it wasn't. It hadn't reached the level where it was. 00:49:04:26 - 00:49:05:18 Speaker 2 An art form. 00:49:05:18 - 00:49:30:22 Speaker 1 So it was really an art for people pay a couple hundred thousand bucks for a would for an annual Adam. And, then we went to the museum to, we went to the Metro Art Museum, signed a contract with them where we could access all of their textile fabrics all the way back to the Persian clay. 00:49:30:24 - 00:50:00:21 Speaker 1 And we translated a lot of that work. China over on the bed, sheets, bedspreads, towels, and sold it as the Metropolitan collection by spring made and gave them 5% of the sale. We paid them $2.5 million in royalties over a period of 3 to 5 years. We did that with the Guggenheim in a smaller way, so our footprint in art was constant. 00:50:00:22 - 00:50:10:03 Speaker 2 How did you even start those conversations? Because this had to have been very different from what other people were doing or did. Other people were other people doing this? And you just got in on the, you know. 00:50:10:03 - 00:50:43:00 Speaker 1 We we wanted to distinguish ourselves. I'd gotten a little bit of this. This is what I didn't know. Okay. Well, I remember walking. We had import fairs and supported the, you know, the museums. So I was, I said art influence what we did because art and textiles, the style and, you know, I felt we connected the other hand, we would be better if we if we took an interest in art. 00:50:43:02 - 00:50:46:23 Speaker 1 And, because our art is universal. 00:50:46:25 - 00:50:58:18 Speaker 2 So you brought up Milwaukee, you ran a store called the Boston Store, right in Milwaukee. And it was a department store that was kind of a bargain store bargain. You brought them up, and. 00:50:58:19 - 00:51:00:01 Speaker 1 They. 00:51:00:04 - 00:51:02:02 Speaker 2 Tell me about that experience. 00:51:02:05 - 00:51:32:15 Speaker 1 Well, we were, I had never run a department store. I had sold the department stores. And I thought, how can I differentiate my stores? I said to your bride, how are you going? Going to differentiate what she wants to do. So I had a survey taken of all the. Stores within three, 30 mile. And what kind of goods they were selling. 00:51:32:17 - 00:52:04:20 Speaker 1 And I found out that they were selling, mostly what I would call basement and budget Priceline. Now, we were and this was JC Penney, Marshall Field, Gimbels, etc.. So I came back to my group and I said. We're going to get out of basement and budget Priceline. We're going to go to moderate, upper moderate and high because we want to get away from and we want to offer people the better good. 00:52:04:22 - 00:52:13:01 Speaker 1 And as fast as we did, our sales and profits went like that even though we were the one third the size of our major competitor. 00:52:13:07 - 00:52:14:06 Speaker 2 Really. 00:52:14:09 - 00:52:21:16 Speaker 1 We had Italian import fairs, we built an enclosed mall, shopping center, the first in this state of Wisconsin. 00:52:21:16 - 00:52:27:15 Speaker 2 Meaning that it used to be in Wisconsin. When they would go shopping, they had to be outside. And now all of their shopping. 00:52:27:15 - 00:52:58:16 Speaker 1 The well, I mean, the stores on the branch and the branches. Right. You could go to our new branch there and stay inside and all day long. so we're juggled. We re juggled our, outlying stores and rebuilt a downtown store with a whole new parking garage with ease of access. And, and we, had a bridge that connected the garage to the store so they didn't have to. 00:52:58:19 - 00:53:02:09 Speaker 1 When they left their car and parked it, they could walk across the bridge into the store. 00:53:02:09 - 00:53:09:01 Speaker 2 And you used to sell sourdough bread up there on those bridges or what? Didn't you sell sour dough bread or from. 00:53:09:01 - 00:53:38:17 Speaker 1 Oh, you know, on the, on the, in the tunnel that we, I mean, the, the bridge, the bridge that we built, we decided to sell foodstuffs, exotic foodstuffs, including sour dough that we flew in from San Francisco and spices and stuff like that. So you could have a shopping experience going in and a shopping experience going out, and they could lower the price that they paid for parking by buying goods and showing us the parking stub on the way out. 00:53:38:20 - 00:53:41:03 Speaker 1 so we use a lot of innovative, 00:53:41:05 - 00:53:52:05 Speaker 2 You had so many ideas that did. Well, between, you know, the Boston Store and did you ever have an idea that you went big on that didn't go well? 00:53:52:07 - 00:54:04:12 Speaker 1 I was always in situations that needed fixing. So I think the answer to your question is no, because they were they needed fixing and I fix them. 00:54:04:14 - 00:54:05:22 Speaker 2 That's a great answer. 00:54:05:24 - 00:54:15:16 Speaker 1 Yeah. I really was never happy in a situation where everything was going smoothly. I liked running things that had problems. 00:54:15:18 - 00:54:18:11 Speaker 2 I and I think that's, you know, there's a phrase. 00:54:18:13 - 00:54:23:18 Speaker 1 Maybe that's the same way I am with people, with people I, I enjoy. 00:54:23:20 - 00:54:24:04 Speaker 2 People with. 00:54:24:04 - 00:54:24:23 Speaker 1 Fixing. 00:54:24:23 - 00:54:43:04 Speaker 2 Yeah. That's a great point. Yeah. You know, the thing that I didn't realize where I got it from, but when people ask me about you know, job advice or watching right career, I always talk about find a problem that you're really good at solving. Yeah. And then go solve that problem because that's how you create value in the world. 00:54:43:04 - 00:54:45:09 Speaker 2 Yeah, I probably got that from you. 00:54:45:11 - 00:55:18:13 Speaker 1 You know, I would be bored. Matter of fact, that's why I kept changing. Yeah. Job. Soon as I got on top of something and it started to get airborne and a little bit redundant, I'm looking for another challenge somewhere else. And I went on ten boards of directors and for profit organization over a period of time. I was on God knows how many not for profit in Milwaukee, and everywhere I went, I was involved in not for profit activities, still involved with three of them. 00:55:18:16 - 00:55:23:06 Speaker 2 And when you think about being on a board of directors, let's say for companies. 00:55:23:06 - 00:55:24:09 Speaker 1 Yeah. 00:55:24:12 - 00:55:31:10 Speaker 2 What what goes on inside of a boardroom that people that have never been in, one wouldn't know about if. 00:55:31:10 - 00:56:07:29 Speaker 1 They're well run. The emphasis. The board, the contributions of board members may is to make sure that they have the best possible chief executive officer and secondly, to make sure that the company has a solid. budgeted. Plan that they're meeting currently and then to make sure that they have a long range plan that makes sense. They're the three. 00:56:08:02 - 00:56:36:17 Speaker 1 They don't get down into the operation and say, you you ought to fix that factory for it. They said above that, make sure the CEO has integrity. Make sure that the, the, the, the general plan is being met and fulfilled. Make sure you have a damn good long range plan. That's what their role is, is not to get down on the detail. 00:56:36:20 - 00:56:52:18 Speaker 2 Changing the subject completely. But we have so many areas we could go into. But I'm I'm interested in your thoughts on war on like on war wars. I'm I'm interested in your thoughts on war. Yes. Being at war, going to war. 00:56:52:21 - 00:57:49:14 Speaker 1 Because you were I'm violently opposed to war for any reason except in self-defense. I'm violently opposed to killing other people for whatever reasons. I think that's the going to war should not be an alternative to solving the problems of, with other nations, that it should be diplomacy that solve that and not wars. I think it's terrible to, you know, I remember, you know, when I killed my first person and still in my up here, I took somebody's life who pulled out their, I, we pulled out their identification to see if they had any stuff on them about, about the unit or whatever, and see pictures of their 00:57:49:14 - 00:58:20:13 Speaker 1 wife, their children, their human being, just like all the rest of the. And, you know, that's I'm. I think you'd find some most soldiers would be agree with me. Last thing you want to do? The Hitler case. He wanted to take us over. Yeah. You're frightened for your life. But even then, too bad we could handle it with diplomacy. 00:58:20:17 - 00:58:42:27 Speaker 2 I have two final questions. The first one is if 99 year old Pete could go back and talk to 30 something year old Pete. Right. You're somewhere along in your career, but definitely not at the height. What advice would you give 38 year old Pete if 35 year old Pete you? 00:58:42:27 - 00:59:04:19 Speaker 1 Well, I would say. Let's think about this with you with exercise. When I was growing up in the 70s. They had signs in the classroom for nine years. Moderation in everything. 00:59:04:21 - 00:59:19:08 Speaker 1 An apple a day keeps the doctor away. And the other one was. Cooperation makes group life possible. 00:59:19:11 - 00:59:43:10 Speaker 1 I thought two of those three or things you could live with all your life and he'd. Well, yeah. So you cooperate with people to get them to do things you don't kill them or you don't say, I'll kill you if you don't do it. Yeah. and also you give in cooperation to give and take. That way I do it. 00:59:43:10 - 01:00:10:01 Speaker 1 I think I mentioned to you once when I what I learned from my Harvard Business School experience was there were 131 other people up there, and they had 131 different opinion as to how to do something. And every damn one of them were as smart as I was, and any all 131 could work. They work in a different way, so be very respectful of other people's opinion or two. 01:00:10:01 - 01:00:25:28 Speaker 1 Damn. This is why I'm very cautious with youngsters and say what? I'm giving you an opinion. Now I'm not suggesting that's what you should do. I'm just say here are here's some opinion. 01:00:26:00 - 01:00:45:21 Speaker 2 And then my final question would be, you know, we started with talking about what is and why, but there are a lot of people that want to carry on your legacy. You want to see the things that they learn from you. We move forward. What could the people that you've been a mentor to do to keep your legacy going? 01:00:45:26 - 01:00:52:16 Speaker 2 What would you like to see people doing after you're gone? 01:00:52:19 - 01:01:08:02 Speaker 1 I almost go back to the Bible. Is the tree treat others the way you'd like to be treated. I think that. 01:01:08:04 - 01:01:48:01 Speaker 1 To be very, very respectful of people you work with and particularly people who work for you. I'd say managing from the bottom up is maybe try to imbue. And then the importance of the guy running the elevator, the mailroom, or the is just as important as the guy at the top. so treat everybody with the same degree of of respect and reverence. 01:01:48:04 - 01:01:52:22 Speaker 1 So it's love. Love, love is powerful.