Latest / The Ground Game / Run It Like A Business

Transcript

Run It Like A Business · The Ground Game

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the ground game for mortgage professionals built for the fight.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Hosted by Brian Lovell and Mark Milo.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, what about what about uh I love it.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_02: I love it, man.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_02: What's your bowling name?
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_02: What did what what was it?
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: Well, your stripper name is.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_02: No, that was the stripper name.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so what's the what how how do you break down the bowling name?
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know, but it's gotta be something really badass with that shirt on, though.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_02: We'll have to we'll have to come up with something.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, listen, I felt like uh you walked down the stairs, you know, a couple episodes ago with this bowling shirt on, and I'm like, I I can't I can't be outdone with that.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I love it.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_02: I went and got one.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's very 1950s.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm digging it.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's um it's also like I don't know, it's like got this like sheer shiny materials almost like uh satin, yeah, but it's not because it was eight dollars out on Amazon.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: But uh I hey listen, I only bring the very best for big spending for for the podcast.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: There you go.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: So hey, uh want to get into this episode with you guys real quick.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for joining us again on the ground game podcast.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's our goal to just bring massive value every single week to the lending community and our partners in there.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I want to focus kind of this week episode, Mark, on just kind of you and you from the loan originator hat that you wear.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I think what are you gonna do this year?
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: 150 million, maybe south of that?
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: I think it'd be a little south of that.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_02: You know, first half of the year always feels like it's gangbusters.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: I think the second half will be a little bit more tepid, especially given where rates are.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: I I'll be somewhere around 120 million, 130 million, I would say decent.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: I'll take it.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: It's decent, decent production.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not gonna sit there and you know complain about it.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's okay.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so you know, one of the things I I get asked a lot.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: So like I'm out there on the street talking to different folks, and everybody always wants to know like what's going on with us.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: And um obviously uh there's a lot of buzz surrounding kind of what we're doing here at the company.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, one of the questions I get asked is, you know, here you are, like the print one of the principals and founder and CEO, and yet here you still are on the street every day doing roughly 130 million dollars in production.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: The question everybody asks, how does he do that?
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: I have a lot of motivation.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_02: I have three kids in college.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um they're expensive.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: I still love the tip of the spear.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: I love the point of sale.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's um, you know, there's so much data about what happens in our industry that gets communicated through the point of sale.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_02: And you could I think it makes me a more effective leader of a company to still be in sales.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: 100%.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: The the more layers of insulation you have between someone who's making the decisions and someone who's experiencing what's happening, I think the more uh uh ripe you are for a mistake um or miscalculation.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: It also will hurt you, I think, in terms of retention.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_02: I think sooner or later your sales staff picks up on it.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: The um the biggest thing I can say, and the way that I've always felt about this business is um it's the perfect blend of left brain, right brain.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's the perfect blend of a lot of freedom and autonomy and creativity, along with boy, you better be good with numbers, you better have processes and disciplines uh incorporated, and if you can do both those things at the same time, um the the business is almost no ceiling.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_02: The only ceiling you really have is time.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: It's one of the things I didn't like about aviation.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_02: My prior, we all have prior lives, and my prior life was aviation, and aviation, for obvious reasons, they don't like a lot of creativity and autonomy.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: They want it to happen the same way every time.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: Every single time.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and they don't want you to deviate from how your your partner does it.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: And that was a little bit of a downer for me in aviation.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you there you just very little freedom to be your own thing, and it's one of the reasons why I absolutely love the mortgage industry.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: There is a lot of freedom and autonomy in this industry, and um, if you're willing to go out there and embrace it.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, it's been it's been a good industry to me, as I know it has to you.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, frustrating at times, yes, um, especially now, because we remember how wonderful it used to be.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not talking about pandemic, I'm talking pre-pandemic, but still uh it's an industry that's given so much to me and uh one that I'm still in love with.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, that's awesome.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: So the the so let me ask you this.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what did you give up?
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: And what I mean by that is like you were already doing massive production.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think did you do like 200 plus million or north in 2020, 2021?
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: It was getting up there.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: I can't honestly I can't remember.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: It was yeah, it's somewhere right around 200.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: So obviously, you probably didn't have a whole lot of freedom then, and you and you launched a company in that period of time, but at one point in your career in this business, you were only solely originating, and then you decided to launch a company.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: So, what freedom did you give up?
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like, like, did you used to play a lot of golf?
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: Or like, did you go on vacation a ton?
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: Or like, what did you give up to do it?
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe a little more incremental than that.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, certainly uh originating, and then sooner or later became a little bit of like a manager of a branch, and then while it was originating, and then became regional VP, you know, these steps.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: And as as we were moving through the gestation of our career, thinking, well, that'll be enough, and then we can have a region, and it just was never enough.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_02: I don't have my PL.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: And it really we sort had this sort of realization well, the only way that we're gonna get to where we want to be is to actually launch our own company.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: That does require some sacrifice, uh, financial sacrifice number one, that you know, they're not just giving away those uh Fannie Mae, Freddie MacNeis.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_02: No, they're not.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, those warehouse lines are hard to come by unless you're uh willing to put some money up.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: Put your uh signature down in it.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_02: So you're gonna throw your life savings into that.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but also, yeah, I would say certainly there's some things that gave up.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: I was I'm a musician and used to spend a good bit of time in that, you know, uh recorded several albums and don't really do a whole lot of that that anymore.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_02: There's just not a lot of time for that.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so there's certainly been some sacrifices in that capacity.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_02: This is the insidious thing about sales, though, is that sales, if you do it long enough and you have some success at it, it will slowly, fundamentally rewire your brain.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like this um this destination you're trying to reach that you never quite get to.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: But along the way, there's lots of moments of like fulfilling, rewarding.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_02: There's lots of obstacles and challenges.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: And each one of those, uh, if you're a certain personality type, propels you to want to overcome them.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's almost like a marathon, someone who wants to run a marathon who starts out by just running one mile, you know, and they're exhausted.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: But they've got their desire set on this marathon.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's just this goal they keep striving for.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_02: I feel that way about sales.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: I've watched it happen to my wife.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_02: My wife is in sales, as you know, Ashley.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's doing awesome.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: And came, you know, from the world of healthcare.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_02: She was a nurse, a successful nurse, and just came over and got into this business.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I've watched this happen to her over the past five years.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_02: This slow fundamental rewiring of her brain to and and it's with some joy and also a little bit of like you're never gonna be quite the same.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you know, you're gonna have you're you're like me now, and I'm sorry a little.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: You've changed something I love.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: It's uh about it, you know.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: If I could go back and do it all over again, I'd do the exact same thing.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's awesome.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: So the the question, the follow-up question I normally have, so like everybody's like, I don't understand how he does it.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then I say, and here's what's crazy he does it with one loan partner that he shares with multiple other LOs.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's when people fall out.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: Uh well, uh he's great, number one.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I'm I'm gonna call him out.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: His name is James Brown.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: I call him the godfather of mortgage.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, why not?
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, he's great at what he does.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: I will say I've never been a fan of people who don't view this business like a business.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, come on, now we're talking.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, as an originator, you're 100% commissioned.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: You're basically your own You're an entrepreneur, you're your own sole proprietorship.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_02: I know it may not look that way on your taxes, but basically you are.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_02: The company that you work for is a conduit for you.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, they may hold the ultimate, you know, company NMLS license.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: They may have the warehouse lines or the depository accounts or however wherever it is you work, but you're running your own business.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're running your own business and you think about it thoughtfully as your own business, you could say, would I run my own business and say for every problem I have, I'm just gonna throw more money at it?
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just gonna throw more of my revenue at it.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_02: In other words, I'm just gonna have to hire another FTE to take that, you know, to solve that problem.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: I'll just have to spend, spend, spend more to get the result that I'm looking for.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_02: No, you would never do that if that was your own business.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_02: And what you would do is say, is there any way I can solve this problem without throwing another human being or a lot more money at it?
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_02: Is there anything I'm missing in my process?
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: Is there anything I'm missing in how my team operates?
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: I want my team to be the most well-oiled machine that it can possibly be.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_02: And when it's not, I want to call everybody into the room and we're gonna post mortem the hell out of it because I don't want it to happen again.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_02: That's how I prefer to run my team.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I will say JB is a he's an excellent partner in that, as is our operation staff that I get to work with.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_02: So that's been if I could give one nod away to say when you find yourself throwing people or money at a problem, stop.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: Look at it from a different angle and say, is there any way I could solve this without doing that?
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: No, I love that approach because I think a lot of times, listen, I've been guilty of saying this.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'll tell LOs, you know, let's say that LO who's got earning a decent living, maybe they're making$200,000,$250,000 a year.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll say to them, hey, listen, if I could show you a way to make a million dollars a year, would you care how many basis points you get paid?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: That kind of goes to like where I'm saying, like, you're saying, hey, let's throw some dollars at it or throw some money at it to get another body.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's the leverage piece of the equation, right?
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: And leverage should give you one of two things.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: It should give you more time, right?
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: Or help you close more business.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: People who are great at leverage do both, right?
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um Let me, I'm gonna interrupt you real quick.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_02: I know you're in the middle of a train of thought.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_02: I also want to be sure that I that I say this uh correctly.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_02: There's not one way to skin a cat here.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: Just because this is my way doesn't mean this is the only way.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I know plenty of people, some of whom who work for us who have teams um that are bigger teams and they close an enormous amount of volume and they are extremely happy, and their team is extremely happy.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_02: There's several several different ways to get there, especially if you know, hey, there's an element of this that isn't my thing.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I am gonna need another expert here in the room to take that.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and also I I will say I could probably do more volume if I got out of my business a little bit.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_02: I am probably a little too in it, but it's what I know and it's what I enjoy.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'm I make the conscious decision to sacrifice maybe a little bit more volume.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I I also don't particularly enjoy being out in the field all day long, every single day, sure, kissing babies and shaking hands.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_02: That isn't necessarily my thing.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: And as a CEO, I can't really do that.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: I have to be in the office.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I I I am a little bit of an architect of my own making there, but I don't want to at all represent that's the only path to glory.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there's plenty.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate that because I that's kind of what I want to drill down on a little bit.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like, so in my role, you know, one of the things I'm always trying to do is to help loan originators and branch managers to grow their business to whatever extent that they want to.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of times to be able to do that, we do need extra pieces of leverage, right?
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so we all reach a point of capacity, right?
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so for some, that might be six loans a month, for some, that might be two loans a month, for some, that might be 10.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: But we all eventually reach a capacity where without changing a system or a model, we're not going to break through that ceiling of achievement.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: So, like what I try to do is uncover what are the systems and models that we need to take a look at and adjust or fine-tune so that we can break through that ceiling of achievement.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes that is through leverage, and sometimes that does have a cost.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: And the way I would typically break that down, and this goes to your point of everybody does it different, is I start to I start to try to identify what's the missing person?
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: Who's the missing person?
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: And what does that missing person look like?
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: What kind of experience would they have?
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: What is it that you want them to do as a function of your business?
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, where what kind of personality traits would they have if we're talking about things like a disc profile or something similar?
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: Let's identify that.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: So now that we have now we have a measuring stick, right?
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: So when we go to make that higher, it's red light or green light.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: Do they fit on that measuring stick as we've identified it, right?
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's way more thoughtful than what I do.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I I in theory, that's the way I would love to do it.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't always work out like that, right?
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: But it goes to your point that everybody's going to do it a different way.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: There's no necessarily right way or wrong way.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: But let's talk about your way for a minute.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so like what does at what point does say your assistant take what are what other roles are they playing on the file flow?
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: So after the client is committed to going with me and we're ready to get disclosures out, that's when I introduce them to JB.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and just so they know they're they they have a familiarity with him because he's going to be reaching out to follow up on document requests.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: He's going to be tidying all that stuff up.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: If there's a condo involved, he's the one that's helping to facilitate getting the condo docs into the the operations side so they can underwrite the condo.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_02: Power of attorney stuff.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we have automated systems to order title and an appraisal, but JB enjoys that facet of it.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: So sometimes he takes that on, sometimes he doesn't.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_02: He he's basically, I classify him as my logistics expert.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_02: And if I'm tied up in something, maybe I've got an executive meeting, maybe I've got a recruiting meeting, or maybe I'm just talking to another client.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_02: I want my clients to know hey, you also have this person who can help you out.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's not just me, it's it's me and him.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, and you've got him if you need him.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_02: And he does serve as an excellent sounding board for clients.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_02: And if it ever gets to a place where, hey, he's just, you know, that's not an area that he's got comfort in.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_02: He's he's got a relationship built with the client that he can say, let's pull Mark into this.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, we want to get you an answer, we want to make sure it's the right answer.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: Let's let's make sure we we do that.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: And he's he's wonderful about that.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: So, with that in mind, what's an introduction to JB look like from you?
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's super simple.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's an email, and it's just, you know, tagging him in it so they can see, you know, who he is, and then I give a brief overview of what he does, why you're gonna be hearing from him, um, and that we work as a team, right?
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_02: Don't think of us as being exclusive.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: We we work together all day, every day.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_02: He's like he's like my work husband.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um I'll go back, I want to go back to something about the the business and why I feel the way I do about the business.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_02: So I talked about prior life being a pilot.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_02: So long before the airlines, I was um working as a trainee for Smith Klein Beach and Pharmaceuticals, flying dry ice out of Atlanta to outstations at night and picking up organs or whatever it might be from these outstations and flying them back to Atlanta.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_02: So sometimes you had an extra set of eyeballs in a cooler in the uh in the cockpit.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: It never hurts to have an extra set of eyes in the cockpit or an organ or whatever.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: And the guy that I would uh one of the guys I would fly with a lot, rest in peace, his name was Mike Sweat.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_02: Mike passed away a couple of years ago.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: But Mike was the most fluid pilot I've ever seen in my life.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: He was like, it was like watching Keanu Reeves in the Matrix, watching him fly, just almost without, without even looking at the switches.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_02: He's just he just done it and he had such an appreciation for doing it quickly and well.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_02: And he always used to finish his runs faster than anybody else and burn less fuel than anybody else.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_02: So he's going faster and more efficient, faster and more efficient than anybody else.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: And um and he would talk about it a little bit with me on those flights, and I remember it fondly.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I got an appreciation of can I do it faster without sacrificing quality?
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I used to it used to become a game for me and originating.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_02: How much faster could I do this without sacrificing the end result?
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I would start to push myself and test myself.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I found that, yeah, I can do, I can get one more out right before I leave.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_02: I know this person, you know, said it's fine to wait for tomorrow.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_02: I want to beat their expectation and get them to it this afternoon, but I gotta meet Ashley for this.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: Let's see if I can get this out and get it done.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: And so I would push myself to do it, and I came to realize I don't need to hire another human being.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_02: I can do this.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_02: I just have to be willing to say, can I do it a little bit quicker without sacrificing quality?
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: And typically what I found found is yeah, I absolutely can do that.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_02: I think we we sometimes put these limits in our head that don't really exist.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: Human beings are not very good.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um we're not very good at understanding truly how long things take.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we're way we're we're bad usually on under budgeting or over budgeting for time.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, one of the I'm a big believer in Parkinson's law.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know what Parkinson's law is?
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_02: Share it with me.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's a business principle.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: Parkinson's law is work expands to fill the time allotted for its completion.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I say that is all work fits into the time allowed.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: So if you give yourself three months to complete a project, guess how long it's gonna take?
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, three months.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_02: If you give yourself seven minutes to get a quote out, you can get it done.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you just gotta be focused.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I I love that.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I was gonna ask a drill down, but I'm gonna move here.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I I see you managing your time really, really well.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: And like as an example, you know, I feel like I've I've on the days where I'm here in Atlanta, like I see you leaving the office at a reasonable time.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm assuming it's going to meet Ashley for drinks or for dinner or whatever.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm sure you get back on later in the afternoon, but I feel like you protect your start time and your end time of the day really, really well.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: Is that am I just witnessing that or is that real?
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_02: I I I I would substitute the word adhere for protect, but I I would agree with you.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I try to adhere to getting started at roughly the same time and even telling clients, hey, listen, if I know you have to go to work too.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: If 7 30 a.m.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_02: works for you for a call, I'm in the office.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: Let's do that.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_02: But I am probably cutting out of the office at 4, 4:30, because I want to get get home.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: I want to get through traffic quickly.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: Ashley and I probably will go grab an early dinner.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: And then yeah, I might even need to hop back on later in the evening, you know, to get somebody down or or whatever it is.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: So going back to JB, um, you shared that you turn a file over to him at disclosure.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: So he's not helping you calculate income.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: He's not helping you get the docs that are required for that, whatever that specific loan is, right?
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_02: It could be he'll follow up on him, but I re I request.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: So you started and then he he's like, hey, if we don't have them yet, he's finalizing the 1003 in an effort to make sure that the documentation matches the AUS findings if it's an AUS loan.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_02: He'll do all that.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_02: So we get the bank statements and he updates the balances for me.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: All that.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: So at that point, are you done in the process?
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: Or are you following these deals through processing?
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, he'll turn it back over to me and say, hey, the Smith file is ready to submit.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I'll go in and check it down, and then I will actually submit it into process.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I I prefer that one last look just in case, you know, uh something gets missed.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: JB would rarely miss something, but we're all human beings.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: And let's say the pay stub instead of saying base salary says commission and none of us quite caught it.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I don't want it to be found, you know, downstream uh in processing.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_02: So I'll submit it just to be sure we didn't miss anything, and then it's off on the operations side, and then it's you know, holler at me if you need me, but we're on, we're out to the next one.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: So once that deal hits the processing queue, you're you're like you're just taking your victory lapse, which is hey, appraisal's in, we got to clear to close.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, those those are they're also important sales pieces, right?
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: Loan status reports everywhere.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: Things like that.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: And then the next step for you is you show up at the closing table.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, which is remark it's remarkable to me.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like, just because I I have an inside look at your business, like you're doing about 15 pre-approvals a week, you're closing over 200 units a year, and somehow you're finding time to work a normal schedule and show up at all your closings.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like is this just a are your systems just that tight?
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_02: I think it is a systems thing.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I've I've I've heard from people say it in the past, you know, you can't you can't expect sales to do it like you do it.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_02: You do you're uh different.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: I've you know, my business partner will say something to me about being a unicorn, and I don't subscribe to that as much as I would love to believe that sort of fantasy fantasy thinking.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think that's the case.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_02: I do think it is a systems thing, and I do think it's one of those things that got that got burned in me pretty early on before I ever got into mortgage.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_02: That with the right systems, you can get there faster and burn less fuel.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_02: There's my analogy, you can burn less fuel and get there earlier than others.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_02: You just have to be willing to commit to it.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: So, what do you say to the loan originator who babysits a file through process?
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: And the excuse I always hear is well, if I don't do that, my processor's never gonna get this file to the closing table.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh now I want folks to understand that you have more than one.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: When you're closing this many loans a month, you probably have two or three processors working on a file.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: So that takes away the excuse of one of them is better than the other, uh huh.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: So, man, how do you just let that go?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: I think you I've heard you say this analogy before that if you go out and you cut the grass every single time, guess who everyone is gonna let cut the grass?
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: You.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: You, you know, because you keep doing it.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_02: You have to empower or or set an expectation with your team that, hey, the this is your thing now, you know, and and that's you know, JB and I have that already.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: But with the processors, I want them to know, hey, once it goes over to your side of the fence, it is that's your file, and I expect you to do a great job on it, and that our team really does.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_02: I also expect you to raise your hand if something's going south.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_02: If something, you know, something happened and there's a concern, I it's not a state secret, you know?
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I and don't just email me, shoot me a text, get call me on the phone, let let's get to it.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_02: But unless I hear from you, I grant you and I expect you, you know, you have the autonomy to see this thing through.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: So let me ask you a question because like I I went through this when I first got into a leadership role in this business, I was still originating at the time.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: And um eventually I I worked in an environment where they made me choose between one or the other, which by the way, if you're ever in that, stay in production, right?
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and I'm not saying don't chase your dreams on some other things, but don't ever give up production.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: So, like I'm at a point where, you know, right now I probably close just a handful of loans a year, enough to keep my pencil sharp.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: I in our environment, I don't have to worry about our systems and models because you're in it every day, right?
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: In terms of like meaning, like if I was gonna do loans to I want to see what kind of experience our LOs, customers, buyers, et cetera, have like we're we're getting that feedback from you.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like we don't we don't need that from me.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but what made me trust that process, I just freaking didn't have the time anymore.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like I got to a point where like I'm still doing loans and trying to grow a business.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't have the time.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't I didn't make the decision, by the way.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: I guess is what I'm saying.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: The business made it for me.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: Did you kind of have that same type of yeah?
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like where did where did you get there?
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't break a hundred million until I think it was either 2018 or 2019.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_02: I can't remember which one.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_02: It was one of those years that it was the first time I broke a hundred million and I found myself running out of time.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like I was getting to a place where I just I don't know how I'm gonna do this now.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, sort of a re-evaluation of the entire business model.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_02: Do I need to change my model or what is it?
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_02: Or maybe this is just all I can do.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and that was where I the business made the decision for me that hey, you you gotta let these people downstream that are receiving the file from you, you gotta let them do their jobs.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that isn't your that's not even you're not even getting paid for that.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_02: Get get out of there.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_02: That's your employer doesn't even want you to be in there.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: But if you can continue to insert yourself in it, of course, of course, the the processor, whomever's gonna go, well, you're the one who submitted it.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_02: You feel like you need to be involved.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: Once you give somebody the job, they're never gonna ask for it back.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: Or once I'm sorry, once you take the job from somebody, they're never gonna ask for it back.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and by the way, that doesn't make them a bad person, that's just the nature of humanity.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: Human nature, right?
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: So one of my big takeaways in this conversation is it sounds like you have the front-end process part of this process super, super buttoned up.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: So, what is that as you're going through the pre-approval process and it sounds like you're getting documentation from the borrower while you're doing that?
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: What is your process and communication with the borrower look like?
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: Because it sounds like you're buttoned up before they're even under contract.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_02: You try to, you know, it's definitely different post uh pandemic.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_02: I definitely feel that uh commoditization of me happening.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_02: We talk about this on our 8:30 call every morning, um, or this morning we talked about it on our sales call.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, I try to make it as collaborative and um this sort of mutual partnership.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_02: I'm in this with you, with the client, you know.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_02: And some clients, man, they love that.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_02: And if I was on the receiving end of it, I would love that.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_02: That's how I like to operate with any professional I hire.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: I don't care whether you're pouring me a new concrete slab or you're doing my taxes or you're my financial planner.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_02: I want to feel like we're in a partnership.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_02: There are, you know, the the world such that it is, though, it reduces us frequently to a number on a screen.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_02: And that's how you get treated as a number on a screen from time to time.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, I've I've had to reevaluate my thinking about that upfront process to maybe I'm not going to be all things to all people.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I I talked about this on this morning's call, but I want to bring it up again because it's something that's really resonating with me right now.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right now, yeah.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so there's a woman who works for us, wonderful lady named Laura, and she has a terrific husband named Greg.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I was having cocktails with Greg.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: He's a pretty high-powered marketing executive, worked for a lot of big brands, created a lot of stuff you would know if I told you some of the stuff you had a hand in.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: You know these jingles and you know these brands and these colors.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_02: He he he understands branding and he understands what drives consumers.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_02: And he chatted with me.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_02: We were chatting about this particular topic of feeling commoditized, and he said, I'm gonna tell you he goes this motto from the Ritz Carlton, and it's gentlemen and ladies serving gentlemen and ladies.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I love that motto because it establishes decorum for our side, how we operate, and for their side, the consumer side, how they operate.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_02: We we sometimes fall into this trap in this industry of no matter how the consumer is treating me, the consumer is always right.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_02: I don't buy that.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't think that's accurate.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_02: When we're all starving for transactions, we're we're willing to tolerate more, but being commoditized is a big fat bummer and it starts to really wear on you over time.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I think if you just sort of make this commitment that, hey, there are people out there that will value me being me showing up as the consummate professional and advocating for them.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um, not just with the strong rate and price, but with with strategy and and with thoughtful, you know, listening to their anxieties, asking the question, what is it about this that makes you anxious?
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_02: What is it about this that is keeping you up at night?
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, let me dive in.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I think there's people out there they're gonna appreciate that.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_02: And those are the people that you want to do business with, and they're gonna tell their friends who probably appreciate the same thing.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_02: Cultivate those relationships.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I I've had to learn maybe I need to let go of trying to be all things to all people.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I can't quite remember where your question started, but that's the thing that's been on my on my heart with this business of late.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we were just talking about how at it it it starts for you at the beginning of the relationship.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're keeping it, you've got it buttoned up from the word go so that that really makes we settled with that garbage in, garbage out.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: You don't really have any garbage, you know, is how it's running so smoothly.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_02: Trying not to.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_02: It is uh there's an element of it that that uh is always need in need of a little bit of refinement.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_02: And then sometimes you have you work with someone who insists on commoditizing you, and then that's always a those are usually challenging transactions.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_02: But if you always go back to you're never gonna find someone more professional and more dedicated to their craft than me.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes your dedication maybe even shifts from the client who's not appreciating you to the craft that you've devoted your life to.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_02: Man, that's big.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm going to honor the craft even if even if I can't quite get this relationship where I want it to be.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's a that's a centering statement.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's a grounding statement.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: It talks about you know, like why you're doing this in the first place, right?
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: And you're super, super proud of the craft that you're doing, man.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: Well, dude, thanks for sharing with us some of the insights and secrets and how you're doing all of this with uh some great people behind you helping you get it done.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: Let's go bowling.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: Let's go bowling.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: So hope hope you had as much fun checking this out as we had fun making it.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: Don't forget to like, subscribe, and share.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: And we'll see you on the next Tide on the Ground game.