Latest / The Evolution of Evil - True Crime Stories / Serial Killer Documentary - Ed Gein： The Killer That Inspired Many Horror Films

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Serial Killer Documentary - Ed Gein： The Killer That Inspired Many Horror Films · The Evolution of Evil - True Crime Stories

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Real Stories Tapes True Crime is your new true crime
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: podcast fix. In our first season, we'll explore suspicious deaths
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: at a California hospital and a skydiver landing dead on
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: a suburban driveway with a bag containing guns, drugs, and
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: night vision goggles. To join our investigation, search and subscribe
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: to Real Stories Tapes True Crime on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: or wherever you find your podcasts.
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: In November 1957, police in the small town of Plainfield, Wisconsin,
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: were searching for a missing woman named Bernice Warden. They
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: were about to make one of the most gruesome discoveries
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: in U.S. criminal history.
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: One of them turned on his flashlight and beamed it
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: around and saw this object that was hanging from the rafters,
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: which at first they thought was some kind of gutted deer.
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: They realized to their incredible horror that it was a
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: woman's corpse. that was hanging by its heels.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: The twisted killer was a quiet loner named Ed Gein.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: Hidden inside the 51-year-old's rural farmhouse was a ghoulish treasure
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: trove of human remains.
• 1:20
  Speaker 4: There was a lampshade made of human skin. They found
• 1:23
  Speaker 4: the remains of 12 human heads, gloves made out of
• 1:27
  Speaker 4: the skin from a corpse's fingers.
• 1:30
  Speaker 5: You think of this happening, you know, now, it's doubly shocking.
• 1:34
  Speaker 5: But back then, in a small, tiny rural community, it
• 1:39
  Speaker 5: was breathtaking.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: America had woken up inside the nightmare of Ed Gein,
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: one of the world's most evil killers. The gruesome crimes
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: of Ed Gein horrified 50s America. When his rural home
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: was searched on the 16th of November, 1957, the police
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: uncovered a gothic house of horrors. As well as the
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: remains of two missing local women, they found an array
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: of human bones, skulls, and skin that had been fashioned
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: into furniture and clothing. The town of Plainfield was in
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: complete shock. One of the residents who remembers the effect
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: Gein had on Plainfield is Max Harrington.
• 2:47
  Speaker 6: I think shock would be the biggest thing that we
• 2:49
  Speaker 6: could use to describe the atmosphere in the community. We
• 2:53
  Speaker 6: were still pretty much a clannish community at that time
• 2:56
  Speaker 6: when a lot of the families that were here had
• 2:59
  Speaker 6: always been here. It took your breath away. It was shocking.
• 3:06
  Speaker 6: It still is. People don't do things like that in
• 3:08
  Speaker 6: a small town on a normal day. That's just not
• 3:12
  Speaker 6: part of what we grew up with.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: The story of this twisted killer begins over a century ago.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: Ed Gein was born in La Crosse County, Wisconsin, on
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: the 27th of August, 1906. By the time he was
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: eight years old, his parents moved Ed and his older
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: brother Henry to Plainfield.
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: Well, the Gein family moved... to Plainfield from La Crosse, Wisconsin,
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: partly because the mother of the family, the matriarch, Augusta,
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: had decided that La Crosse was a kind of Sodom
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: and Gomorrah-like hellhole, and she didn't want her children to
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: be corrupted by all the immoral influences of the big city.
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: Needless to say, La Crosse was not a particularly big city,
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: but they moved to a remote farmhouse about six miles
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: west of, you wouldn't necessarily say downtown Plainfield, because there
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: was no uptown Plainfield.
• 4:18
  Speaker 6: It's not the largest city in the state of Wisconsin,
• 4:22
  Speaker 6: but it's plenty big enough for those of us that
• 4:24
  Speaker 6: live here.
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: Plainfield was a very remote, isolated area. featureless little village.
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: A state guidebook at the time described it as totally nondescript.
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: The population was very small, never more in its history,
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: I think, than 700 or 800 people. You know, probably
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: the entire population of the village could have fit into
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: a New York City apartment building.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: The Geens' 150-acre farm was located on the corner of
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: Archer and Second Avenue. Ed rarely got to leave the
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: property and socialize with other children.
• 5:06
  Speaker 4: His mother, Augusta, is a very domineering character indeed. She
• 5:11
  Speaker 4: is a devout Christian, and she has some very extreme
• 5:14
  Speaker 4: ideas about sin and about morality. And she drums into
• 5:19
  Speaker 4: her sons that they're not to socialize with anybody outside
• 5:22
  Speaker 4: of the family because all of the people around them
• 5:25
  Speaker 4: in the local town are sinners, they're evil, all the
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: women are whores. And so she creates this very insular
• 5:32
  Speaker 4: family environment where they're quite isolated from the rest of
• 5:35
  Speaker 4: the community and that has a really significant impact on them.
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: Gein seemed to have been very friendless whenever he would
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: make some kind of friend. On those rare occasions, when
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: he would try to make a school friend and bring
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: home a school friend, the mother would immediately find some
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: reason to disapprove of the other child and forbid Ed
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: from ever bringing him home. So he grew up again
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: in a state of complete social isolation.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: And Gein's relationship with his father was also far from perfect.
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: Well, the father, George, was an alcoholic. He appeared to
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: have been somewhat free in his use of physical punishment.
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: But mostly the picture that emerges of George is of,
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: you know, kind of a hapless individual who was, as
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: all three male members of the family were, under the
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: thumb of his wife. And again, who was regarded as
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: much as anything else as a sort of or impediment
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: to the household.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: As Ed entered adolescence, his life became even more insular.
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: He dropped out of school when he was around about
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: 12 or 13 to work on the family's farm, and
• 6:49
  Speaker 4: he was considered to be a bit of an oddball.
• 6:52
  Speaker 4: He was quite a loner, and he enjoyed quite solitary pursuits,
• 6:56
  Speaker 4: so he really quite liked reading and was quite a
• 6:59
  Speaker 4: prolific reader. So he was somebody who didn't really fit
• 7:02
  Speaker 4: in but worked incredibly hard to keep the family farm going.
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: On April 1st, 1940, Ed's father George died of heart failure,
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: leaving 33-year-old Ed, his brother Henry, and Augusta alone on
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: the family farm.
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: Ed's older brother Henry seemed to have freed himself a
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: little more emotionally and psychologically from Augusta's dominance. and even
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: apparently on a couple of occasions expressed some criticism of
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: their mother and the hold she was exerting over both
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: of them. So Ed, who at least on a conscious
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: level worshipped his mother and saw her as a kind
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: of goddess who could do no wrong, appears to have
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: been both a little shocked that Henry would find any
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: cause to criticize Augusta, and possibly built up some kind
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: of animosity toward Henry for that attitude.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: Ed became a handyman, doing odd jobs around Plainfield to
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: help with living expenses on the farm.
• 8:14
  Speaker 6: We used to see Ed occasionally. I'd see him around town,
• 8:18
  Speaker 6: and then he was always a friendly person, quiet, friendly,
• 8:24
  Speaker 6: usually had a joke to tell. He always had time
• 8:27
  Speaker 6: to say hello and ask after how you were. A
• 8:30
  Speaker 6: person who you would never suspect of anything other than
• 8:33
  Speaker 6: being a decent sort of person.
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: In May 1944, death would hit the Gein family once again,
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: but this time in more suspicious circumstances after a brush
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: fire on their farmland got out of control.
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: Ed and Henry were out there trying to put out
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: the fire and they got separated and and Ed could
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: not locate Henry, and he went and got help. But
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: then after getting this help, he led the other people
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: directly to where Henry's body lay, and there were some
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: mysterious bruises on Henry's head. Anyway, the official verdict of
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: the medical examiner was that Henry had died of a
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: heart attack while fighting this fire and had injured his
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: head when he fell and hit a rock. But afterwards,
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: when Gein's crimes were uncovered, There was a lot of
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: talk that perhaps Henry had been a victim of Ed's,
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: that Ed in fact had killed Henry partly because of
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: Henry's criticism of Augusta.
• 9:37
  Speaker 4: The impact upon their mother Augusta was phenomenal. She really
• 9:41
  Speaker 4: broke down about Henry's death and she had a stroke.
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: But of course by then, you know, the psychic bond
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: between Augusta and Ed was so incredibly intense already. Evidence
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: seems to suggest that with the other two men out
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: of the.
• 9:58
  Speaker 6: Way, Ed reveled.
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: in having his mommy alone to himself.
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: But Gein's mother never really recovered from her stroke, and
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: their time alone only lasted for 19 months.
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: Ed nursed her very, very diligently, even apparently would get
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: into bed with her on occasion and stroke her and
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: comfort her, and then she seemed to recover, but then
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: she suffered another, this time fatal, stroke.
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: Augusta Gein died on December 29, 1945. 39-year-old Ed was
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: completely devastated.
• 10:39
  Speaker 4: Because his mother was so domineering, I think she really
• 10:41
  Speaker 4: did stunt his development, and he almost got stuck at
• 10:45
  Speaker 4: a kind of teenage, adolescent phase in his life. Looking
• 10:49
  Speaker 4: at how he behaved at the funeral, he was in
• 10:51
  Speaker 4: his 30s at this time, and he was reported to
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: be wailing like a small child. So he hasn't got
• 10:57
  Speaker 4: that kind of emotional control that's associated with 30-something men.
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: The death of his mother left him completely, completely isolated,
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: you know, living in this increasingly ramshackle, dilapidated farmhouse that
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: he ceased to take care of whatsoever. Augusta was his
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: only real human contact. So it was at that point,
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: you know, that Gein embarked on these various outrages that
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: would ultimately make him this notorious figure in American crime.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: Alone and isolated from the rest of society, Gein spiraled
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: out of control. Over the next 12 years, he became
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: obsessed with recreating the world he'd shared with his mother.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: it would lead him to a series of dark and
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: disturbing crimes that would eventually culminate in murder.
• 11:53
  Speaker 6: One of my summer jobs when I was a student
• 11:56
  Speaker 6: in high school was mowing the cemetery. And two of
• 12:02
  Speaker 6: my buddies and I, that was about a four-day job
• 12:05
  Speaker 6: for us to mow that. And we would see Ed
• 12:08
  Speaker 6: out there on occasion. He'd come out, and if he
• 12:11
  Speaker 6: saw us working, he'd always come over and say hello.
• 12:14
  Speaker 6: And again, sometimes have this little story to tell. And
• 12:18
  Speaker 6: he was very good about stopping to see his mother's grave.
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: I think neighbors saw him as an odd, very meek,
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: somewhat simple-minded person, but one who was always willing to
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: pitch in when some farm work needed to be done
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: or Some chore needed to be run for them. But they,
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: of course, had no sense of the life that he
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: was pursuing inside that incredibly creepy, dismal world of his
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: own farm.
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: It was a world that 51-year-old Gein had managed to
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: keep hidden away until the winter of 1957. November 16th, 1957,
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: was the first.
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: Day of deer hunting season that year. and it was
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: a day when basically the entire male population of the
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: town would have been out in the woods hunting deer,
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: as Ed knew. Ed drove into town to the Warden
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: Hardware Store. The Warden Hardware Store was owned by a
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: woman named Bernice Warden.
• 13:22
  Speaker 6: I knew Mrs. Warden quite well. She and her family
• 13:25
  Speaker 6: ran the hardware store here for many years, and almost
• 13:28
  Speaker 6: everybody in the community knew Mrs.
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: Warden. Ed had kind of been hanging around the store
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: for a couple of weeks previously. He had developed something
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: of an obsession with Bernie Swarton.
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: He would talk to her, he would ask her out,
• 13:42
  Speaker 4: and it was quite clear that she really wasn't that
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: interested in him.
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: Ed came in, asked to buy half a gallon of antifreeze,
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: which Bernie Swarton poured out for him and wrote out
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: a receipt. He went back out to his truck, then
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: came back inside, and asked her to see a rifle
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: that was in the window. When Bernie Swarden turned her
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: back to him, he shot her in the back of
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: the head and then loaded her corpse in his truck
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: and drove back to his farm.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: Gein had murdered the 58-year-old woman in broad daylight.
• 14:16
  Speaker 6: It was deer season, so deer season, it's like a
• 14:18
  Speaker 6: ghost town around here. Everybody, in those days especially, everybody
• 14:22
  Speaker 6: was out hunting, and she wasn't even missed for quite a,
• 14:25
  Speaker 6: for some hours. And when someone reported that she wasn't
• 14:30
  Speaker 6: at the store, well, that was her son.
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: Of course. Later that day, Frank Warden returned from the
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: woods and found the store empty. His mother wasn't there.
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: He was very perplexed by that. And then he saw
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: a trail of blood across the floor of the hardware
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: store and not only realized that some foul play had occurred,
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: but immediately suspected Ed Gein. because Gein had been kind
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: of bothering his mother for the past few weeks.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: And there was one piece of evidence that confirmed Frank
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: Warden's suspicions to the police.
• 15:04
  Speaker 5: When they went to search the place, they found the
• 15:08
  Speaker 5: receipt for the antifreeze that was in Ed's name. And
• 15:13
  Speaker 5: they just worked backwards, saying that he was probably the
• 15:16
  Speaker 5: last person to see her alive, but they didn't suspect that.
• 15:20
  Speaker 6: He was as deranged as he was.
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: One set of lawmen went out in search of Gein.
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: They found him having dinner at a neighbor's house, and
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: they arrested him. And then another set of lawmen went
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: out to Gein's farmhouse, and that's where they made these
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: discoveries that really sent shockwaves around the world.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: On a dark winter's night, officers from the Plainfield Police
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: Department began to search the Gein farm for Bernice Wharton.
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: They couldn't get into the house. So they went around
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: back and entered into what was called the summer kitchen,
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: which was a little shed outside.
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: This property didn't have any electricity, so they were pretty
• 16:04
  Speaker 4: much fumbling around in the dark with flashlights. But I
• 16:07
  Speaker 4: don't think they expected to find what they did find there.
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: One of them turned on his flashlight and beamed it
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: around and saw this object that was hanging from the rafters,
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: which at first they thought was some kind of gutted deer.
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: Although it didn't look like a deer, they realized to
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: their incredible horror that it was a woman's corpse that
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: was hanging by its heels and been completely gutted.
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: She'd been strung up, essentially, and she was slit from
• 16:38
  Speaker 4: her sternum to her pelvis. So she'd essentially been butchered
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: by Ed. It really was the most grotesque thing that
• 16:47
  Speaker 4: these officers had ever come across.
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: And they realized they had found the body of Bernie's warden, And,
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: of course, both of them just stumbled out in horror
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: and vomited, you know, at the sight of this thing.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: When the news spread across the town, the residents of
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: Plainfield were in complete shock.
• 17:06
  Speaker 6: When I heard of his arrest, I couldn't believe it.
• 17:10
  Speaker 6: I was sure they had the wrong person because it
• 17:12
  Speaker 6: just didn't seem like anything that they were telling us
• 17:16
  Speaker 6: was the Ed that we all knew. It was a
• 17:22
  Speaker 6: Saturday night. We were at a dance, and the story
• 17:25
  Speaker 6: went through there, and everybody said, I don't believe it,
• 17:28
  Speaker 6: but it was true.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: After finding the butchered body of Bernice Warden in a
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: shed at Ed Gein's farm, the police officers moved their
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: search into the main house.
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: He boarded up some areas of the family's home to
• 17:44
  Speaker 4: maintain the rooms as his mother had left them, and
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: in other parts of the property, He just started hoarding things.
• 17:51
  Speaker 4: You know, you would have trash and rubbish filled up,
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: and it really became a complete hovel.
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: He'd reverse the normal process of trash disposal, you know,
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: and instead of taking all his garbage to the dump,
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: would go to the dump and bring it into his house.
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: It was just this incredible chaos of trash and garbage.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: But there was more than just household waste.
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: Amid all that wreckage, they discovered... these incomprehensible, unspeakably awful
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: objects that had been fashioned out of human body parts.
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: There were chairs that were upholstered in human flesh.
• 18:30
  Speaker 4: There was a lampshade made of human skin. They found
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: the remains of 12 human heads, gloves made out of
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: the skin from a corpse's fingers.
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: There was a jar containing human noses. There was a
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: box full of female genitalia, some of which had been painted.
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: and tied with ribbons. There was a belt fashioned out
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: of female nipples. There was a shade pull made of
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: human lips.
• 18:58
  Speaker 5: They found all types of things that belonged to people
• 19:02
  Speaker 5: that were no longer people. And it was shocking. I mean,
• 19:06
  Speaker 5: you think of this happening, you know, now, it's still
• 19:10
  Speaker 5: pretty shocking. But back then, in a small, tiny rural community,
• 19:15
  Speaker 5: it was absolutely shocking. It was breathtaking.
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: Ed Skeen's farmhouse was the habitation of a literal ghoul,
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: you know, somebody who had been living amidst these horrific
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: relics of human dismemberment. It was a madhouse.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: Skeen's fascination with death and corpses had been growing ever
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: since his mother had died 12 years previously.
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: Ed had always enjoyed reading. It was quite a solitary pursuit,
• 19:45
  Speaker 4: so that's not particularly surprising, but After the death of
• 19:47
  Speaker 4: his mother and his brother, he started to read an
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: awful lot more. And his tastes in literature really did
• 19:54
  Speaker 4: span quite a wide spectrum. He read pornographic magazines. He
• 19:59
  Speaker 4: read medical textbooks. And he developed a particular interest in
• 20:04
  Speaker 4: Ilse Koch, who worked at one of the Nazi concentration
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: camps and collected patches of skin of the prisoners who
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: were detained there. And I think all of this was
• 20:15
  Speaker 4: fueling a very active imagination. So he's developing these obsessions
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: and these interests, and he's quite skilled as a farmhand
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: at this point in time. He knows how to slaughter animals.
• 20:26
  Speaker 4: He knows how to prepare carcasses. He's from a community
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: that's very much into its hunting and its fishing. So
• 20:32
  Speaker 4: at some point, reality and fantasy are going to collide.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: As the search of the farmhouse progressed, officers found that
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: the grotesque collection of body parts became even more disturbing.
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: Among the most hideous of all the items were human
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: skin masks that were hanging from the wall of his bedroom,
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: the faces of women that had been flayed from the
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: skulls and that had been preserved. Some of them had
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: lipstick applied to them and that had been hung on
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: the walls as decorations. And then, most notoriously, there was
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: a skin suit that Ed had crafted out of the
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: upper torso of a woman and the leggings of a woman.
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: And apparently, as he later confessed, he would put on
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: this skin suit and put on one of the female
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: skin masks and caper around in his yard, pretending to
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: be his mother.
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: Gein's macabre collection had been acquired from the very same
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: cemetery where his mother's body lay.
• 21:38
  Speaker 4: Two years after the death of his mother in 1947,
• 21:41
  Speaker 4: he starts grave robbing. So he's going into a local
• 21:46
  Speaker 4: burial ground, he's digging up bodies, and he's taking things
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: from the bodies. Now, he's not taking jewellery or items
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: of any value, he's actually taking body parts. It really
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: is an absolute house of horrors, so... What started off
• 22:01
  Speaker 4: as an interest, which was confined to the pages of
• 22:04
  Speaker 4: a book has now become a reality behind the doors
• 22:07
  Speaker 4: of this rather bizarre house. So what he's doing in
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: a really grotesque way is trying to bring his mother
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: back to life in some way, shape or form, because
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: he was just so dependent upon her for a sense
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: of his own identity.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: And the search wasn't over yet. Officers would soon discover
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: inside a paper bag in Gein's home the severed head
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: of a woman who'd been missing from Plainfield for over
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: two years.
• 22:35
  Speaker 4: I think that the real tipping point for Ed Gein
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: was when his mother and his brother died because even
• 22:41
  Speaker 4: though this family was very intense and rather extreme in
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: its beliefs, it was still a check on his behavior.
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: There was still that informal surveillance over him and I
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: think that kept him contained. But once he was on
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: his own, he was free to ruminate and fantasize, and
• 22:58
  Speaker 4: his behavior was only going to escalate.
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: You know, it's like some crack opened up, you know,
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: in the civilized part of his head, and all this weird,
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: archaic stuff going back to the days, you know, when
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: our species did engage in these bizarre, unspeakable rituals, you know,
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: flooded out and took possession of him.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: With Gein in custody, officers continued to scour his home,
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: and they were about to make another startling discovery, a
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: local woman who'd been missing for almost three years.
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: There had been a female tavern keeper named Mary Hogan
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: who ran this roadside tavern outside of Plainfield who had
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: disappeared very, very mysteriously.
• 23:44
  Speaker 6: In those days, we had 18-year-old bars where teenagers could
• 23:48
  Speaker 6: go and have beer in. And she ran one of those.
• 23:52
  Speaker 6: It was kind of a modest place, to be very kind.
• 23:58
  Speaker 6: But she disappeared before I was old enough to frequent
• 24:02
  Speaker 6: those establishments.
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: When she went missing, he'd said some rather bizarre things.
• 24:07
  Speaker 4: He said to one of the townspeople, oh, she's not missing.
• 24:10
  Speaker 4: She's up at the house. But because he was a
• 24:12
  Speaker 4: bit of a misfit and because he was a bit weird,
• 24:15
  Speaker 4: People didn't really take what he said very seriously at all,
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: so that one was allowed to slip under the radar
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: until this grisly discovery a few years later.
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: In searching through Gein's house of horrors, the investigators opened
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: up some receptacle and saw this face and pulled it
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: out and realized it was Mary Hogan's, that she had
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: been another one of these victims.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: Had murdered Mary Hogan on December the 8th, 1954, three
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: years previous to killing Bernice Worden.
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: I think there was some sense in which he associated
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: her with his mother. You know, she almost seemed to be, like,
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: the shadow side of his mother, and I think in
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: killing her, again, he was both enacting some kind of
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: homicidal rage toward his mother, But I think also there
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: were times when he just ran out of suitable female
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: corpses and had to make his own.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: Back at the local police station, it was time for
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: Ed Gein to start talking.
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: Well, for the first day after his arrest, I think
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: Ed felt like a bit of a fish out of water.
• 25:29
  Speaker 4: He didn't quite know how to react, but he did
• 25:32
  Speaker 4: start talking after about 24 hours and The first thing
• 25:36
  Speaker 4: he said was that he wanted an apple pie with
• 25:38
  Speaker 4: a slice of cheese on it. And that really does
• 25:41
  Speaker 4: show the emotional immaturity.
• 25:43
  Speaker 6: Of this guy.
• 25:44
  Speaker 4: And when you've got somebody whose development stops at a
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: particular point, they don't develop those complex emotions that enable
• 25:51
  Speaker 4: them to empathize with other people or just think through
• 25:54
  Speaker 4: the consequences of their actions. What you've got here is
• 25:58
  Speaker 4: a teenage boy in a man's body, and he was
• 26:01
  Speaker 4: capable of some really terrible things.
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: He was subjected to a very lengthy interrogation. He freely
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: confessed to the murders of Bernie Swarton and Mary Hogan.
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: When the police first broke into Gein's house and discovered
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: this crazy mass of body parts, their first assumption was
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: Gein was a serial killer. It was only during his
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: interrogation that he revealed that they were taken from the
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: corpses he had dug up from these local cemeteries. And people,
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: in a way, had a harder time believing that than
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: that he was a serial killer. That seemed like totally
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: beyond the bounds of belief for a whole variety of reasons.
• 26:40
  Speaker 7: Human bodies are traditionally buried six feet underground. That's a
• 26:44
  Speaker 7: lot of digging, that's a lot of work to get
• 26:47
  Speaker 7: to them through packed earth. He'd need spades, picks. He'd
• 26:52
  Speaker 7: need to be strong and he'd need... One assumes to
• 26:55
  Speaker 7: do it at night because he'd need to be undisturbed.
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: I'm not sure he did recognize that what he was
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: doing was wrong. You know, there are some necrophiles who think, well,
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: I wasn't really hurting anybody. You know, they were dead anyway.
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: Gein confessed to investigators that between 1947 and 1952, he'd
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: regularly visited the local cemetery after dark.
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: He would often follow the local newspapers and read the obituaries.
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: And when some middle-aged or elderly woman who bore some
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: vague resemblance to his departed mother died and was buried,
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: he would apparently go out to the cemetery at night
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: while the soil was still fresh and easily dug up
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: and exhume these coffins and remove the bodies and sometimes
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: take the entire corpse back to his farmhouse. Sometimes just
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: take parts of the corpse back to the farmhouse and
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: leave the rest there.
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: Investigators decided to dig up some of the graves to
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: see if Gein was telling the truth.
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: When they uncovered them, they discovered that the coffins had
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: been broken into and the bodies were missing or, you know,
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: there were just parts of the skeleton remaining there.
• 28:10
  Speaker 4: He admitted to grave robbing nine corpses, but the maths
• 28:14
  Speaker 4: didn't quite add up because the police had found 12
• 28:18
  Speaker 4: human heads in Gein's property. And he'd only admitted to
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: 11 offences against separate people. So the numbers never really
• 28:27
  Speaker 4: added up properly. So there's always been questions over that.
• 28:30
  Speaker 7: Ed Gein's crimes were in the late 50s, 1957. The
• 28:36
  Speaker 7: state of forensic science in those days was far less.
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: Than we have now.
• 28:43
  Speaker 7: Things like DNA simply didn't exist as a tool. So
• 28:48
  Speaker 7: identification could potentially be very difficult, and I would suspect
• 28:52
  Speaker 7: in certainly some of the body parts, simply impossible.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: There was no doubt that Gein specifically targeted females. All
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: the graves he desecrated belonged to women.
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: I think he was both trying to rebuild his mother,
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: but I also think that he was taking revenge on
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: his mother, that kind of love and hate of mommy.
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: were manifested both by his attempting to bring her back
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: from the dead, but also perpetrating these atrocities on the
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: corpses of female bodies.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: It's been reported that Gein did in fact try to
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: return Augusta to the family home after her funeral.
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: There's some indication that he initially tried to exhume his mothers, corpse.
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: You know, apparently, Ed missed the presence of his mother
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: so much, you know, he wanted to bring her back
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: and somehow, in his madness, you know, reconstitute her in
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: his household. He couldn't get to his mother's grave because
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: the soil And that part of Wisconsin is very sandy,
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: and many coffins are buried within concrete vaults to prevent
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: the sand from collapsing on them. And that was apparently
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: true of Augusta Gein.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: In November 1957, Ed Gein was charged with the murder
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: of Bernice Warden. The media descended on the tiny town
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: of Plainfield, Wisconsin.
• 30:25
  Speaker 8: What kind of a man did you know him as? Well,
• 30:27
  Speaker 8: a man who's a nice man, just like anybody else.
• 30:32
  Speaker 8: The only difference, I'd say, in a man, he seems
• 30:36
  Speaker 8: to be a little odd.
• 30:39
  Speaker 4: Well, the cultural context of the Gein case is quite
• 30:42
  Speaker 4: an interesting one because I think this was one of
• 30:46
  Speaker 4: the first cases that gathered an awful lot of attention.
• 30:49
  Speaker 4: There was a media circus that developed around this because
• 30:53
  Speaker 4: Nothing like this had ever really happened before. It was
• 30:56
  Speaker 4: something completely new.
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: It spread very quickly through the local newspapers and, you know,
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: and then through the Associated Press and so on to
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: the national media. You know, Plainfield, which, you know, had
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: always existed from the time of its founding in happy obscurity,
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: you know, suddenly found itself to be the center of
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: national and even international attention.
• 31:21
  Speaker 6: It was just a an exasperating time. And then we
• 31:25
  Speaker 6: were inundated by nosy Nellies that all thought that, boy,
• 31:30
  Speaker 6: I gotta go drive by that old farmhouse. And then
• 31:34
  Speaker 6: we became a, I don't like to use the word chaotic,
• 31:37
  Speaker 6: but a very unsettled community for a while.
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: Plainfield was suddenly famous, and famous for the most horrifying
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: of reasons. You know, that it was the home of
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: America's most notorious psychopath.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: The entire community was stunned. For the previous decade, they'd
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: been living in the same town as a real-life bogeyman.
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: It would now be down to the courts to decide
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: whether or not Ed Gein was insane. On November the 21st, 1957,
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: the 51-year-old pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity at
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: his arraignment at Washara County Court. and it was declared
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: that he was unfit to stand trial.
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: There were indications that Ed was clinically psychotic, that he
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: had hallucinations, that he heard voices, or the trees would
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: start talking to him. Most serial murderers are not psychotic,
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: but Ed seemed to have the symptoms of some form
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: of psychosis.
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: Gein was sent to the Central State Hospital for the
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: Criminally Insane in Warpen, Wisconsin, which is now a maximum
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: security prison. 70 miles away in Plainfield, the community was
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: trying to get back on its feet, but the shadow
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: of Ed Gein lingered over the town.
• 33:02
  Speaker 4: In 1958, the property that Gein had lived in was
• 33:05
  Speaker 4: due to be auctioned off, and I think the last
• 33:08
  Speaker 4: thing that local people wanted was for this to become
• 33:11
  Speaker 4: some kind of shrine, some kind of, attraction for people
• 33:14
  Speaker 4: who were morbidly fascinated so a few days before the
• 33:18
  Speaker 4: auction the property was burned to the ground essentially a.
• 33:22
  Speaker 6: Lot of talk of arson the um they had been
• 33:28
  Speaker 6: cleaning up around there had been burning trash up around
• 33:31
  Speaker 6: the um that that particular day too so then that
• 33:35
  Speaker 6: was Or anyway, that was an excuse of a possible
• 33:39
  Speaker 6: cause that maybe the wind got something in the evening
• 33:43
  Speaker 6: and got some live embers in there. A lot of
• 33:46
  Speaker 6: the neighbors weren't too happy with having talk of it
• 33:48
  Speaker 6: being turned into a museum of sorts. But there were
• 33:55
  Speaker 6: a lot of stories. Anyway, it's gone. People still kept coming, though,
• 34:00
  Speaker 6: even after the house was gone. for a year, still
• 34:03
  Speaker 6: had people coming to drive by the empty lot where
• 34:06
  Speaker 6: the house used to stand.
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: In March 1958, the car which Gein used to transport
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: the bodies of his victims was bought at an auction
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: for over $ 700 by a carnival operator who charged fascinated
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: Americans 25 cents for a photograph at a macabre sideshow.
• 34:25
  Speaker 4: I think what we're seeing here is the rise of
• 34:27
  Speaker 4: the serial killer consumer culture. People are fascinated in these
• 34:32
  Speaker 4: kind of cases, and some criminologists refer to this as
• 34:36
  Speaker 4: wound culture, that we're essentially drawn to the trauma and
• 34:39
  Speaker 4: the suffering of other people, and we're drawn to the
• 34:42
  Speaker 4: artifacts that exist around these cases.
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: Gein remained in the Central State Hospital for 11 years
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: until doctors determined that he was finally fit to stand
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: trial for the first-degree murder of Bernice Warden. The hearing
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: lasted for a week, and on November the 14th, 1968,
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: Judge Robert Golmar had reached a verdict.
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: He was tried and found guilty of the murder of
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: Bernice Worden, but then he was judged insane and stuck
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: back in the mental institution.
• 35:12
  Speaker 4: I think that was possibly somewhere where he may have thrived,
• 35:16
  Speaker 4: because he had structure, he had a routine, he had
• 35:19
  Speaker 4: people watching over him and looking after his needs.
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: Forensic psychologist Dr. Helen Morrison interviewed Gein during his time
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: in hospital.
• 35:30
  Speaker 5: I was working at that time as a staff psychiatrist
• 35:33
  Speaker 5: and I was covering all the units. And when I
• 35:38
  Speaker 5: was asked to go over to see this person, I
• 35:43
  Speaker 5: went over to see it and I saw Ed Gein.
• 35:46
  Speaker 5: He was not at all coherent. He was such a
• 35:50
  Speaker 5: little person. that I found it hard to picture him
• 35:56
  Speaker 5: as the person who'd committed all these homicides. He lived
• 36:01
  Speaker 5: there very peacefully. He never caused any problems, never had
• 36:05
  Speaker 5: any type of behavioral thing, no type of, I guess
• 36:11
  Speaker 5: you could say, consequence for bad behavior.
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: Gein's quiet nature in hospital was in stark contrast to
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: the monster Helen had heard so much about.
• 36:21
  Speaker 5: I received a letter from one of his neighbours who
• 36:25
  Speaker 5: used to be a friend of his. She was a
• 36:28
  Speaker 5: little girl and she remembers going over to his house
• 36:33
  Speaker 5: and he would serve soup and everything. What turned out,
• 36:36
  Speaker 5: the soup bowls were the skulls of many of his
• 36:39
  Speaker 5: victims and people never knew it.
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: On July the 26th, 1984, Ed Gein died of lung cancer,
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: age 77. He was buried next to his mother on
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: the Gein family plot at the same cemetery which he
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: so often desecrated during his career of horror. Gein has
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: left a lasting impact on the small community where he
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: committed his ghoulish crimes.
• 37:07
  Speaker 6: We really wouldn't care to have that be our claim
• 37:10
  Speaker 6: to fame. We've turned out lots of doctors and architects
• 37:16
  Speaker 6: and some really good people out of our schools here.
• 37:19
  Speaker 6: We're very proud of them. We'd rather be known for
• 37:21
  Speaker 6: a tremendously good population than to be credited for only one.
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: Issue.
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: But just like the carnival operators of the 1950s, people
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: continue to try and get their hands on grisly souvenirs
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: related to Gein.
• 37:42
  Speaker 4: In the year 2000, somebody was found to be selling
• 37:45
  Speaker 4: parts of the gravestone that had been erected at Ed
• 37:50
  Speaker 4: Gein's grave. For people who are fans of the serial
• 37:53
  Speaker 4: killer cult, this was just the gift that kept on giving.
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: They keep putting up headstones, and the headstones keep disappearing.
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: There's a whole category of collectible that has come to
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: be known as murderabilia, and Gein relics are particularly prized.
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: among people who collect that kind of morbid relic.
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: Over 60 years since the horrific crimes, Gein has grown
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: into a notorious figure in American folklore, a killer of
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: almost mythic proportions.
• 38:25
  Speaker 7: The two things that are fascinating about Ed Gein is
• 38:29
  Speaker 7: the fact that he only, as far as we know,
• 38:33
  Speaker 7: murdered two people, which is a lot less than many
• 38:36
  Speaker 7: infamous killers, but he's had such a huge legacy in... films, books, music.
• 38:44
  Speaker 7: He seems to have become a sort of pop culture murderer.
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: At the time the Gein crimes were being revealed in
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: the press, there was a writer of pulp horror named
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: Robert Block who had moved to Wisconsin to be with
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: his wife's family. And at some point, when Gein was
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: being interviewed by various psychiatrists, all these headlines in the
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: papers were trumpeting the fact that Gein had been motivated
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: by these deranged, Oedipal conflicts, that he was this desperately
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: sick mama's boy who was perpetrating these atrocities on middle-aged
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: women who reminded him of his mother. And this caught
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: the attention of Robert Block, who decided this could potentially
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: make the basis of a good horror novel. And that
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: became the book Psycho. In the book Psycho, Norman Bates, actually,
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: after he's arrested, compares himself at the end of the
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: book to Ed Gein. So the connection is made very,
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: very explicit there in the book. Anyway, Psycho, as we know, became,
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: turned into one of the great classic horror movies of
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: American cinema. You know, if you look at horror movies
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: before then, there were all these Eastern European monsters, Frankenstein
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: and Dracula and the Wolfman, you know, or else they
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: were aliens from outer space. You know, with Psycho, Psycho
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: establishes and, you know, Ed Gein establishes, you know, this
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: quintessentially American figure of horror. the ordinary middle American guy
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: who turns out to be this monster in disguise. And then,
• 40:24
  Speaker 3: of course, Gein becomes the basis for Toby Hooper's Texas
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: Chainsaw Massacre, and later on for Thomas Harris' character Buffalo
• 40:33
  Speaker 3: Bill in Silence of the Lambs. You know, so Gein
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: has this very, very direct influence on American horror cinema.
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: But Gein's crimes were not fictional, they were very real,
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: and he remains one of the most infamous murderers in U.S. history.
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: We think of Gein as this notorious American serial murderer,
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: but in many ways he doesn't really fit that profile.
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: You know, for example, he wasn't a sexual sadist in
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: the way John Wayne Gacy or Ted Bundy were or
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: Jeffrey Dahmer. You know, he wasn't driven by that particular profile.
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: form of deviance.
• 41:12
  Speaker 4: I think he was brought up in a vacuum that
• 41:16
  Speaker 4: created the conditions for someone who would go on to
• 41:18
  Speaker 4: do evil things. So whilst most people are shocked and
• 41:23
  Speaker 4: repulsed and absolutely horrified at some of the things he's done,
• 41:29
  Speaker 4: because he didn't have that filter and that check on
• 41:32
  Speaker 4: his behavior, he was able to escalate to a level
• 41:36
  Speaker 4: of evil, I think.
• 41:37
  Speaker 5: Evil is something that You know, professionally, people don't believe
• 41:42
  Speaker 5: in evil, but I truly believe that he was evil.
• 41:47
  Speaker 5: I think there are people who would like to say
• 41:51
  Speaker 5: that the devil got into him and made him do
• 41:54
  Speaker 5: these awful things, but I think he was born evil.
• 41:59
  Speaker 6: The Ed I knew was not an evil person. He
• 42:01
  Speaker 6: did things that normal people do not do. And there's
• 42:06
  Speaker 6: just no doubt about that. And to kill two people
• 42:09
  Speaker 6: is certainly not a person who you would really like
• 42:13
  Speaker 6: to invite to your neighborhood party. But, yeah, there was
• 42:21
  Speaker 6: something in his head that didn't click right.
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: Ed Gein's crimes are the stuff of genuine nightmares. The
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: man with an unhealthy obsession with his mother brazenly murdered
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: two women and kept a bizarre collection of gruesome keepsakes
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: inside his house of horrors. He truly deserves to be
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: remembered as one of the world's most evil killers.