Latest / For Azeroth!: A World of Warcraft Podcast / #341 - For Azeroth!: "You Can't Have It All"

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#341 - For Azeroth!: "You Can't Have It All" · For Azeroth!: A World of Warcraft Podcast

0:00
Manny I I I adore you, but your Venari impression is not very
0:03
good. No, no, it is I.
0:09
Want you to know, don't enter any Venari impression contest.
0:13
For Lorderon. For the Karen tour for.
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Pandaria. For.
0:21
Calendar to the. Burning region for Gilnaeus but
0:26
has not died, for the Lich King, for the Sindora, for the
0:34
Alliance, for the Horn, for Azeroth.
0:40
Hello and welcome back to another episode of For Azeroth.
0:44
I am one of your hosts, the Truva Manny AKA Manny, and I am
0:49
joined by returning Lex. Lex, how are you and how has the
0:54
weeks of World of Warcraft been treating you?
0:56
How has 11.2 landed for you? It's been really fun.
1:02
I've been having a really good time with it.
1:03
I do feel a little overwhelmed just by the sheer number of
1:07
things to do. Like I still haven't really
1:09
gotten my teeth in phase diving, so it feels like there's some
1:14
things that I kind of need to figure out before I officially
1:17
say that I am. I'm grounded in 11.2, but I'm
1:20
having a lot of fun. I was.
1:23
I was not playing a ton last week, which is why I was out.
1:25
I had my parents over and now my house has been painted and my
1:28
dog learned that she likes the taste of drywall.
1:32
But it was very fun and now I am back and I'm actually playing
1:36
and I'm ready for raid tomorrow. I've done most of I've done the
1:39
whole storyline from last week and most of the storyline from
1:41
this week and we're getting into it.
1:45
OK. And then somebody else who might
1:48
be having a overwhelming week, we have Sean.
1:52
Hello, Sean. Mr. Cartridge Rose, how are you?
1:55
Hi Manny. I'm doing pretty good.
1:57
I'm doing pretty good. War Craftsman treating me well.
2:00
Been a busy week. It's Wednesday.
2:02
I feel like it's Friday. Tuesday we had the NA reset
2:08
obviously blasted through the campaign quests and then did a
2:14
bunch of M plus. Almost got KSM on the first day.
2:20
Then we did normal raid clear with the Guild and a cheeky
2:25
little 20 stack LFR. And it's not scummy.
2:30
If one of us doesn't need the piece that we win, we give it to
2:33
the people that are not in the Guild that are with us.
2:37
And today was my first ever race to world.
2:41
First casting session on the desk for method and I had a six
2:46
hour shift today. Long shift.
2:51
Pretty tired, Pretty tired. Now you, you were a natural.
2:56
I got to say I I tuned in for for for part of it.
3:00
I was actually surprised. And I guess we should do like a
3:04
sort of currently what's up with the race to world first as far
3:09
as as far as the big guilds are going, they're doing their same
3:14
thing. For people who don't tune into
3:17
the race to world first, it often starts where you know,
3:21
you're doing your splits, you're doing your farms, you're getting
3:23
ready to dive in so you can make that impact.
3:26
But while the big guilds are normally doing that, we also
3:31
usually have some other guilds that aren't really there to like
3:34
claim the full title, still getting some early kills.
3:38
We normally see some some of those guilds that want to get
3:44
put their names out there killing off like the first two
3:48
or three bosses early in the race.
3:51
And I haven't seen that this tear at this point.
3:58
I was actually a little surprised because I because I
4:02
was like, oh, well, you know what?
4:03
I'm probably just not paying attention.
4:05
And then I went over to like the usual suspects to track race
4:11
progression. So of course Raider IO among
4:15
others. And that leaderboard is blank
4:20
the last time I checked. John, am I?
4:22
Am I smoking something? Nope, there is no mythic kills
4:27
as of recording. So 7:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time
4:34
there is no mythic kills. The best pull on plexus Sentinel
4:38
is 62.1% from melee mechanics. They did 9 polls on Tuesday.
4:43
The 1st boss has an intermission that has a shield phase at the
4:48
end of the emission. Had to breakthrough the shield
4:49
to stop his cast. Ramping damage will kill you.
4:52
His shield alone in that phase had more health than some of the
4:58
bosses in heroic. So Mailer mechanics who are the
5:03
team that took first kill for both Nurbar Palace and
5:07
Liberation of Undermine did 9 Poles realized OK this isn't
5:11
going to be it. We need to be better spending
5:13
our time in some splits and they jumped over to do splits.
5:18
So auspicious start to the race. On top of that, we've seen
5:26
people like tearing through normal.
5:29
I know a lot of people haven't really had a chance because
5:31
we're literally on day 2 for NA and day one for EU.
5:37
So we're not going to go into spoilers here.
5:39
We're not we're not going to go. It's too deep in that.
5:41
If you want some early impressions, Sean and I talked
5:44
about our testing on the PTR. So if you want to know like more
5:49
about the bosses, go ahead and look back at those episodes.
5:53
But I think that what we saw in Liberation of Under Undermine is
6:02
sort of playing out again here, where normal seems to be quite
6:05
accessible. The step up to heroic is quite
6:09
the step up and the step up to mythic apparently is another
6:15
magnitude altogether as well. So they have definitely
6:19
separated those those difficulties in this tear from
6:24
what I what I've been seeing. And based on the race, the world
6:27
first so far, I would say that seems to be the case.
6:33
Lex, we were saying before the episode, you haven't had a
6:36
chance to really jump in. Sean, your team I believe, start
6:42
raids Thursday. Yeah, we haven't.
6:44
So NA we have an optional night on Tuesday which we cleared
6:48
normal and then EU and NA both raid Thursdays.
6:52
So it'll be normal for my EU team, heroic for my NA team?
6:57
There you go. That's going to be a busy day
7:00
for you. So again, we're going to give
7:03
our full impressions on a later episode, but good luck to all of
7:10
you guys who are rating. And that is going to require a
7:15
lot of luck because we have seen actually the Chinese region put
7:22
out a huge bounty for their push for race to world first.
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China wants the the gold in this.
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And so they've put out AI believe it is 500,000.
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Sorry, I, I apologize. I don't know the currency.
7:43
Yen, I think it is. Yen's Japanese.
7:46
Oh well, it looks like a Why it? Does look like a.
7:49
Why? Never mind, I'm not going to try
7:52
to guess. Yen.
7:53
It's yen. I got, I got yelled at.
7:55
No, I got yelled at by Jin last time for saying yen.
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It's Yuan. I was right.
7:59
That's what I was going to say. None of you know that because I
8:01
didn't say it out loud. But it's Yuan.
8:03
OK, good, good. Shout out to Jin for reminding.
8:07
You Jin Death of Live Laugh Floor fame.
8:10
Oh yes, of course, Jin of Live Laugh Floor.
8:11
OK, good, good. So there you go.
8:14
So that that's quite the push and I believe this is still the
8:18
same bounty that they kept adding to.
8:21
Yeah, every tier that China does not finish in, the top three are
8:25
going to win. The prize pool goes up, the
8:28
bounty goes up from Nettie's. This isn't we're not at a dollar
8:34
amount yet. That makes this like super
8:37
appealing. So it's about 70 thousand U.S.
8:40
dollars. Obviously the cost of living in
8:43
China is different from the cost of living in the US.
8:45
So it's not 1:00 to 1:00, but that breaks down to about $1700
8:49
per member because you have like the 20 to 30 man raid roster and
8:54
then you're going to have anywhere in the range of 10 to
8:58
20 support staff from analysts to we core designers to that
9:04
kind of stuff. So it's not like a huge payday
9:07
for the raid team. You know, people are quick to
9:10
say, oh, 70,000 US divided by 20 Raiders and that's it.
9:13
But you're not, that's not you would have to pay everybody on
9:15
the team for this. So it is, I mean, it's a bigger
9:19
prize pool than you get from winning in North America or
9:22
Europe, I guess, although their money comes mostly in the form
9:25
of sponsors. So yeah, we'll see.
9:29
It's China's at a real disadvantage because the the
9:32
raid for them doesn't start till Thursday.
9:34
So everybody talks about the NA to EU head start and how NA gets
9:38
12 to 14 extra hours and how unfair that is.
9:41
Well, they get like a day and a half over in China.
9:44
So I I don't see a world where a Chinese team, something drastic
9:50
would have to happen for a Chinese team to come in 3rd just
9:53
because that that X that day and a half delay is such a huge
9:58
hurdle to overcome. Have we talked about this
10:02
already? Do we know why they don't just
10:05
release everything at the same time?
10:06
Is it just server load? I assume it's because they hate
10:13
fairness. That's true.
10:14
I forgot about that. I forgot that it was, it was
10:17
simply, I mean, to be fair, it is an NA company and they're
10:20
like, we're gonna keep winning. Yeah, we really like when NA
10:23
wins. I mean, there's like a number of
10:26
reasons behind it. 1 is that like, yes, those server teams
10:30
have to be working at its point to like update and do that.
10:35
They're the reset is when their reset normally occurs, right?
10:41
So it's not like they're they're particularly doing it for the
10:45
race the world first where they're setting people back.
10:47
It's like no and a is is Tuesday, then then Wednesday is
10:52
EU, then Thursday is China. Otherwise you're asking them to
10:56
build a a support staff that is doing all three of those servers
11:01
at the exact same time for no financial gain for the company.
11:05
Company that this seems like a like, not something a profit
11:11
driven company would do. And the race the world first is
11:15
not officially supported by Blizzard.
11:18
As much as people want to say, hey, you guys are catering to
11:21
these rates of old first people, this is clearly a point where
11:24
they're not. But like.
11:26
Final Fantasy 14 releases are global and they have data
11:31
centers in all regions. And cross region gameplay I
11:34
might add. Looking at you, midnight.
11:39
How much later did their servers come out?
11:41
Their game released I believe 5-6 years.
11:44
Oh, I'm not sure, I'd have to look it up.
11:46
Yeah, yeah, I I think like when you're working off of the off of
11:51
technology, right and the fact that they haven't moved over
11:54
servers, there's there's parts of it and like you could make
11:58
that switch. It's just that I also don't
12:00
think that like Final Fantasy also supports its race to world
12:05
first. So if they do like a no they.
12:07
Do Final Fantasy is huge? Yeah, Square they.
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Officially support the Race to World.
12:13
First, yeah, it's like a massive thing they do which.
12:18
Realistically it's a little silly that Blizzard doesn't
12:21
right like the race the world first is AI mean.
12:23
Maybe it's the people don't want them to like step in and take
12:26
over, but I mean, it's, it's a huge it's, it's very much and
12:30
it's a thing they benefit off of, right?
12:32
Like it's not like the Blizzard team doesn't acknowledge the
12:34
existence of the race to world first.
12:36
Oh, I'm sure they like they soft supported.
12:38
It's definitely they soft supported.
12:40
They're talking with the the gals.
12:43
They're they invite them to how many events where they have like
12:48
exhibition matches and stuff, but like the specific race to
12:52
world first, who gets who gets that first kill.
12:56
The closest that we have from Blizzard really is the Hall of
13:01
Fame leaderboards, where it's like, OK, yeah, we'll put you in
13:04
as like, you killed it first. I'm guessing.
13:09
And of course, nurfing their bosses so that their players
13:11
could get in easier. Yeah, I just read that Final
13:16
Fantasy doesn't support the race because they're terrified of
13:21
promoting somebody who uses an add on, so never mind and.
13:26
The final. Fantasy, never mind.
13:28
Oh bad. But you had said that it works
13:33
out to like $17170 per per player, but if they do take
13:40
first place for some reason that is 1.4 million.
13:47
Sorry, yeah. One I might be.
13:50
I might. Ohh, you know what?
13:51
I might be saying that really embarrassingly wrong.
13:53
I didn't even think of that possibility.
13:55
OK, that's OK. We're we're making a good faith
13:58
attempt. Yeah.
14:00
If. If you know don't feel free to
14:03
message. I would like to know I'd like to
14:05
bright broaden my horizons, but there is a much larger price of
14:09
1.4 million if they take first place and that is that what Sean
14:15
you're saying is the the long haul.
14:18
I think the closest that I've seen is like a that in like
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recent memory is 1/5 place finish by a Chinese region team
14:29
and I think that was. Skyline.
14:32
Yeah, Skyline, which I think is dissolved since then.
14:35
Yeah, there's no, there's just no.
14:38
You can't start a race a day and a half late and expect to have
14:41
any shot at winning it. It's just not possible.
14:45
Yeah, yeah, they the teams are so crazy organized and it is a
14:50
it is a strange thing because you need a machine that is
14:53
running behind you like these world first guilds.
14:56
They have not only like the analysts and the like weak, weak
15:03
or in like coders that are like that are building the stuff that
15:08
they need as they analyze the fight and the players, but they
15:12
have like an entire machine that is like getting them the mats
15:17
and the resources for the stuff that they they need.
15:21
Organizing splits with people all over like the region now,
15:25
because like it's regional at this point, there is a big step
15:31
up from being even in like a like doing really well, getting
15:37
cutting edge Hall of Fame every every tier and being in that
15:42
race to world first. And that is I guess something
15:46
that maybe we can talk about on a different episode.
15:49
But it it it requires A literal infrastructure to be in that
15:54
race. And you're right, that day and
15:55
1/2 is crushing when you've got a machine that is starting up
16:00
that much later. But moving from the race to
16:07
world first to us casual players, we've got something big
16:15
on the on the horizon and that is my attempt to get a Deathless
16:25
Tazewesh run because that's way off the horizon.
16:29
I don't expect that I'll be getting that this week.
16:33
Sean, are you going to attempt to do a Deathless Tazewesh run
16:37
this week? Yeah, we should be able to get
16:38
one of these done Saturday or Sunday.
16:40
I imagine at that point we will have done probably six of eight
16:45
heroic, if not the full raid and lots of mythic plus.
16:51
Lots and lots of mythic Plus. We're already doing 10's and
16:53
elevens now, so all of our gear drops are at seven O 1.
16:56
So we should be able to get a deathless run in by the weekend,
17:00
Monday at the latest. But even if you don't get one
17:04
in, it's still worth doing the hard mode, especially if you're
17:06
not regularly timing 10s because all of the loot drops at one O 6
17:11
heroic in the hard mode. And I'm pretty sure yeah, the
17:14
completion of it counts as if you ran a + 10.
17:19
So even if it takes you 2 hours, it still gives you a + 10 in
17:22
your vault, which guarantees you a mythic piece next week.
17:26
So if you're somebody who, if you're, you know an individual
17:29
or a team or group who, who isn't successfully doing 10s or
17:34
can't get into plus 10s or you're struggling to get that
17:37
level, get 5 or 4 friends together and run the Tasmvesh
17:41
hard mode. Even if you die, finish it
17:44
because it'll count in your vault and then you'll get.
17:47
If you don't time it, you'll get a nine out of your vault and
17:49
you're that much closer to to pushing back into 10s.
17:53
OK. It's big worth, big worth to do
17:55
this dungeon. All right.
17:58
Well with with that in mind, Lex, has hard bone tazewesh been
18:04
on your radar or does this make it more enticing to you?
18:07
So the deathless one, as I was reading that article, I could
18:10
feel my heart rate go up and I was like, that's going to be
18:13
really fun for Sean and Manny. They're going to have a great
18:15
time fighting for that. Best of luck.
18:18
I will not be trying to deathless Tazewesh.
18:22
However, I so I haven't just because realistically I've only
18:26
been playing 11.2 for like the past like days or so.
18:32
I haven't dug much into anything but I really want to.
18:37
I think that two seasons ago I jumped in really feet first in
18:42
dungeons and I kind of scared myself and, and pushed a little
18:45
hard and I needed to back off. Last season.
18:47
I think I, I in fact I know I did 0 mythic and I think that
18:52
was kind of the opposite. I just, I, I ended up feeling
18:55
really stagnant and like I didn't have much to do and I, I
18:58
couldn't really catch up. So I'm hoping that we're going
19:01
to find a nice little middle ground where I'm doing some
19:03
dungeons and I'm not pushing so hard that I'm freaking myself
19:06
out. But I'm also not, you know, just
19:09
utterly delving it only and calling it a day.
19:12
So I do, I, I'm really excited to get into Tazewash.
19:14
And I also wasn't really doing dungeons when Tazewash was, came
19:19
out originally. I don't think I've done a full
19:21
Tazewash run other than the cute little bits.
19:24
So I'm excited. I really want to do it.
19:26
I think that's gonna be fun. I don't know that I'll jump
19:30
right into hard mode for all the reasons that I'm scared of
19:33
Mythic Plus, but I'm excited to to get into it and, and play
19:37
and, and see how it goes and have a little fun.
19:39
But no, I will not be doing Deathless.
19:41
I will cry if somebody says we're going to try to do this on
19:43
Deathless and I'll die immediately.
19:44
So they don't can't do that. Not really, not really.
19:46
I wouldn't sabotage my friends if I'm not a jerk.
19:49
Well, people who had anxiety because they were afraid that
19:53
Lex or one of their friends would sabotage had a lot to say
19:56
about this. There was complaints that like,
19:58
hey, people are going to grieve Blizzard.
20:01
This is insane because like, I don't want to be held hostage.
20:06
And Blizzard has sort of addressed part of it.
20:11
At the beginning of the the dungeon, you're on the dock
20:15
just. We haven't really explained the
20:17
deathless Todds the restaurant, have we?
20:19
No, no, I'm going about to jump into that.
20:21
Yeah, sorry. So yeah, at the beginning
20:27
there's like the dock that overseas, overseas like the
20:32
boundless beyond or whatever. And so it would be easy for
20:36
somebody to jump off and grief a group, especially before you put
20:41
in the key, just just to screw you over.
20:44
Like let's say you're doing a Mythic plus run and you're like,
20:47
yeah, no, we're just want to put input in a key.
20:48
Somebody screwing over your Mythic 0 hard mode run like that
20:52
would be bad. So people were really concerned
20:54
about this. And that's because the way that
20:57
this works is that at the beginning of each week you will
21:02
have a buff, and that buff is called the Smart Street buff.
21:06
That buff goes away as soon as you die in Tazewash.
21:13
If you complete the run without without anybody dying, you get
21:18
that bonus. In chess that is a guaranteed
21:23
mythic loot and that is 5. Pieces of everybody gets a piece
21:29
of mythic loot. Everybody gets a piece of mythic
21:32
loot that's you don't have to wait for your vault.
21:34
You get a piece of a mythic loot, which is amazing and very,
21:40
very much something that it can entice people.
21:43
But yeah, if anybody loses their buff, then the run fails and has
21:49
to be done in your first attempt of the week.
21:53
You can't reset and go back into it.
21:56
So what? There was a lot of stress
21:58
involved involved with this. There were people who were
22:03
saying like oh what if somebody exploits me?
22:06
Is this why they needed the ban, the ban or sorry the vote kick
22:10
system. But this doesn't help with the
22:14
because the even if you vote kick and disband the group, that
22:17
is still your first attempt. There hasn't been any, any
22:22
confirmation from the article that I was reading on Wowhead
22:26
about if you're doing your first attempt, let's say three people
22:31
are doing their first attempt, two people are not doing their
22:33
first attempt. And so three people have the
22:34
buff and two people don't What the what that winds up being.
22:41
But honestly, I I like that there are there, there's the
22:47
ability to do these like challenging non time things.
22:53
A lot of people get anxiety just from a timer or don't like the
22:57
rush, rush, rush thing. This is a different way of
23:00
challenging. Challenging players like being
23:03
very strategic and careful with your polls and like trying to be
23:07
like, even if you're like lower your defense just to like,
23:10
sorry, lower your damage just to be a little bit more defensive.
23:14
You could you could do this in a completely different manner.
23:17
What was it in Dragonflight where you would do hard mode?
23:22
Dawn of the Infinites, Dawn of the Infinites.
23:24
Yeah, right. That was that was the same.
23:27
Right where? Yeah, you only had one shot each
23:30
week. No, no.
23:32
No, there's something different about it.
23:34
I'm just forgetting what it was. No, I do think you only had one
23:39
shot each week because I remember we did it once and we
23:46
got to the end and somebody died.
23:48
You still couldn't die. It had to be deathless.
23:51
We had somebody die with 3% left in the last boss and it cost us
23:56
our attempt and we didn't do it again.
23:59
So I'm pretty sure it was once a week.
24:03
Yeah, and I think it was just in the .5 patch before it went into
24:07
rotation. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
24:13
Yeah. Before before it became Mythic
24:15
plus. Before it became mythic, mythic
24:17
plus. So it's not like this hasn't
24:19
been done before. So I'm I'm a little bit baffled
24:25
that people were so up in arms about it.
24:29
I think it's because this is such, this is a much bigger
24:32
power game. So Dawn of the Infinites was
24:36
Mythic 0, and I think you were guaranteeing it wasn't everybody
24:41
got a piece. It was it was just their normal
24:43
end of dungeon piece and it was only from the last boss.
24:47
This can be, this is a guaranteed Myth track piece to
24:49
everybody in the party, and it could be any piece from any
24:52
boss. And there are multiple trinkets
24:55
in this dungeon specifically that are quite good for people.
24:58
Well, it also the beginning of a patch is hugely different than a
25:01
.5, right? Like just at that .5, a lot of
25:04
people have kind of checked out. Yeah.
25:06
And we don't care if, like you're getting, you're thrown at
25:08
you anyway. Exactly.
25:10
I, I think people are upset. I, I mean, I can't speak for
25:13
certain because I, I'm personally upset.
25:15
I don't care. But I think one of the issues
25:18
was that for teams that are fighting for those early kills,
25:25
falling behind on this is a massive power loss to your raid
25:29
team. If you have a a 20 man raid team
25:32
and you don't time this every week, that's 20 pieces of mythic
25:37
year you're behind from a team who does time it with their
25:41
whole team. So that is 1 issue.
25:44
Also the anxiety issue of you know what if you're the one who
25:46
causes the death, even if you're playing with friends, you're
25:49
still going to feel terrible afterwards.
25:51
Even if they tell you it doesn't matter, you're still going to
25:52
feel bad. You know, I'm for some people
25:54
that is worse than a lot of things.
25:57
OK. Sorry, before you jump into
26:00
more, I do want to sort of like talk about both of those points
26:03
because I think that they're ugly valid points, but they're
26:08
points that exist in the game anyways.
26:10
Like if you are the person who causes like the .3% wipe, not on
26:17
the specific example of the Dawn of the Infinite, but like, let's
26:20
just say it's, it's a Prague boss and you're about to, and
26:23
you're like, oh man, we're about to like kill, get AOTC or we're
26:28
about to kill like this. The normal boss, like day 2 and
26:31
you're about to kill normal boss and you get a, you got to wipe
26:34
that like, oh man, I, I blanked and, and everything you're going
26:38
to feel bad. Like this is a magnitude more
26:41
because of the loss of the opportunity.
26:44
I mean, that's for the teams that.
26:47
But it's it's it's literally 1 not no other source of gear is.
26:52
You can try once a week. If you wipe on the boss for as
26:56
you see you just pull again. If you break a key, you just go
26:59
again. And it's also not like just well
27:02
I screwed up so like I can't do this again all like my 4 buddies
27:07
who are playing this perfectly and made zero mistakes are also
27:09
screwed for the entire week. Yeah, but like, your four
27:14
buddies made zero mistakes and you made one mistake.
27:18
And like, it's just, it feels so binary.
27:20
And I get that. Like that's like such a binary
27:23
thing for the teams that are like really caring about the
27:28
gear right now. Like if you don't get this every
27:30
week you are falling behind. That's the competitiveness of it
27:35
in my opinion. Like I don't think it would have
27:41
any effect on the race if you could make unlimited amount of
27:48
attempts and as long as you can do 1 deathless run in the week,
27:51
you get it right. Because then in general, I think
27:55
people would just do what they're doing already, which is
28:01
doing stuff ahead to make sure that they're comfortably geared
28:04
so that they can comfortably get this right.
28:07
If they were making attempts earlier, even even when they're
28:12
like quote on the bench, which makes it easier for them to
28:15
schedule right. I I think that this wouldn't
28:21
have the same intrigue like that tension means something.
28:25
It means something in both ways. And for like those of us at
28:30
home, the the mere mortals at home, right?
28:33
If Lex doesn't get this week 1, I don't think like that level of
28:41
like, Oh man, I'm forever behind effects you as much.
28:45
And I don't think it affects me that that that much.
28:49
Sure, but. I think you got to be at your
28:51
level, Sean or higher for it, for like it the I'm falling
28:55
behind FOMO to really start kicking in.
28:57
Yeah, but that I mean, that's that's a massive amount of
29:00
guilds. It's like 500 guilds of people,
29:04
right for that where that matters, that makes a difference
29:08
like that. And I wasn't talking race to a
29:09
first level when I said you're. I was talking like the Hall of
29:12
Fame to you know, that anywhere, anywhere from from from like 25
29:18
to 500 and even above, like there are people who are in
29:21
lower ranked guilds who like to push mythic plus itself on, you
29:26
know, with a group. If you're in a group that pushes
29:29
mythic plus and you don't time this even one week, it doesn't
29:33
have to be the first week. If any week you make a mistake,
29:36
you're now forever behind that piece of mythic loot.
29:40
So and I just think it's harsh because it's the only content
29:47
that doesn't allow multiple tries.
29:50
Everything else you can try again, but this is this is
29:53
overly, I think it's overly punishing.
29:56
I think the more I'm thinking about this, I think it should
29:58
not have dropped with hash because I, I, I kind of agree
30:01
with Manny that like the the point, the reason it's exciting
30:04
is that it is limited and it is hard to access.
30:07
And I think overwhelmingly there's some degree of like, you
30:09
know, I'm not personally super worried about the race world
30:12
first folks because they're the best in the world.
30:15
And so I, I, I could be wrong. I doubt that they're going to
30:17
have a lot of failed deathless hard mode Tazewash if they're
30:20
going into it prepped and ready. I but obviously humans make
30:24
mistakes and video games are like errors happen.
30:28
I'm not saying that it's impossible, but I I'm not super
30:29
worried about them. I'm also honestly not super
30:32
worried about people at like, you know, high level to mid
30:37
casual like or like true casuals like me, because I feel like
30:40
we're pretty good at reading like we we can read our own
30:43
vibes, right? Like I'm just going to like I
30:46
will say to my entire group, I'm not touching that.
30:48
Like if you guys want to try your hard mode, deathless Todd
30:51
Todd Savesh, please do it before you play with me.
30:54
I will not. I'm not going to engage with
30:55
that because I know that I would be the like I I I stopped
30:58
playing mythic because I had one really bad M plus, because I had
31:01
one really bad era Cara run. I would be devastated if I was
31:06
trying this. So, like I I just step out of
31:07
it, right? For or you're like, I know this
31:09
group of friends, like, yeah, I'm going to feel bad, but like
31:11
it'll be whatever, right? We we know how to like laugh it
31:13
off and keep playing. I do think though, because right
31:17
now it's so like loot is not easy to get, especially in
31:20
mythic loot and the people who are pushing are pushing for a
31:24
thing. I think having that time
31:26
limited, like I think this should have this shouldn't have
31:28
dropped at least until the end of the race, for example, just
31:31
because I feel like it just it's a lot of pressure for really
31:35
high reward that isn't really catch up able and will be catch
31:38
up able in the future. You know, there'll come a point
31:40
that mythic loot will be exciting, but not Oh my God, are
31:43
you serious? I get one promised piece of
31:45
mythic loot or Oh my God, are you serious?
31:47
You're the reason that this entire five group can't get
31:49
mythic loot. I just, I, I do think that it's
31:52
pretty intense for dropping a patch.
31:57
Yeah, like Lex you make some really good points there.
32:00
It is most impactful earlier and far less impactful later,
32:06
especially as soon as the race is done and as more teams
32:09
complete. Yeah, like gearing up after
32:12
you've gone through. I don't want to say that this is
32:15
just a concern for the race to Walt first teams, because when I
32:18
like use your level or higher, Sean as like the words that I
32:23
use, I don't mean to say that Sean, you're the you're raceable
32:26
first person. Like you.
32:31
Are a mythic Raider right who hits your your your cutting edge
32:38
consistently? Like I can't think of the last
32:40
season that you didn't get cutting edge, right.
32:45
And we just talked about the difference between like race,
32:48
the world first and the people in the Hall of the Hall of Fame.
32:51
Like it's a, it's a larger community that is going to be
32:58
concerned about this than just the people you see on like
33:03
Twitch. And that I do think that maybe
33:09
later on Blizzard could put through like a hot fix or
33:17
something that's like, hey guys, now the first 3 attempts, right?
33:25
And then later on, now it's the first 55 attempts or something
33:29
later on as sort of a almost a soft nerf to allow people to get
33:34
more loot to to get into it and like alleviate that and maybe
33:38
make it more appealing to a broader audience.
33:41
But I do think that the one attempt at the beginning is
33:50
somewhat important because this can't be another mythic plus
33:53
nearly guaranteed way of getting loot.
33:56
Like it has to have some form of tension or otherwise you may as
34:01
well just start looking at like, Hey, do we want to just have end
34:06
to run loot be that level anymore or not do it at all.
34:10
Like there's, there's, there's a very fine line that you have to
34:15
you have to walk for reward bounds here.
34:19
I mean I would argue that just completing A deathless run is
34:22
probably enough tension. It's 9 bosses tuned to the
34:27
difficulty of A + 10 with extra mechanics.
34:31
Like it's not mythic 0 health pools and that comes with extra
34:35
mechanics that aren't seen in mythic plus.
34:37
So you can't even practice it. Like there's no I think that's
34:41
the issue is like you can't, you're like you just can't
34:43
practice it unless you go on the PTR and practice it on the PTR
34:47
and like the mechanics change from boss to boss.
34:49
So unless you go and watch Avada, I don't know.
34:52
I I think like just removing the once a week I think makes this
35:01
probably perfect and it's in its implementation.
35:05
Leaving the once a week is fine. You know, the people that are
35:09
like super crazy about it will do all the research and wait
35:12
till the last possible second when they have the most gear
35:14
this week to try it. And then those who brick it or
35:17
who make a mistake, they'll just be behind.
35:20
They will forever be behind this season.
35:22
And that, I don't know, that's a bad feeling for people.
35:25
OK. I do want to address forever
35:27
behind, but go ahead Lex. Oh, I was going to say, how
35:29
would you just because this thing, I'm not turning over in
35:31
my head. How would you feel if instead of
35:32
like loot, it was something like every week there's a new mount
35:36
or there's one mount that you get?
35:38
Like if it was something that felt a little bit less like,
35:41
like this is still a big reward, but it's not devastating if I
35:44
don't. It's not like a huge power loss
35:46
if I don't get it. I don't personally care about
35:48
mounts so that wouldn't be the hook.
35:49
That would be a hook for me and I think most mount collectors
35:52
aren't going to be able to complete a deathless or ON still
35:55
very late in the season. Most of them, most, not all.
35:58
There are some mount collectors that are exceptional at Mythic
36:01
plus, but I think the majority of them are mount collectors for
36:05
a reason and it's because they don't enjoy Wow.
36:08
They don't enjoy that content. I, I, I think that mount
36:14
collecting is not a direct reflection of your, your
36:18
involvement in other areas of the game.
36:20
There are people who like love making gold but are amazing
36:23
Raiders or people who love collecting mounts but are like
36:26
crazy about pet battles. Like it's just, it's just
36:29
another vector of interest. So I don't think it, it quite
36:31
aligns with like your skill or love for any other part of the
36:37
game. If.
36:38
You're spending 10 hours a day farming old raids and
36:42
collecting. You're not spending that time
36:45
getting better at current content.
36:46
So your skill level, you know what I mean?
36:48
Like you, what you practice is what you're going to be good at,
36:52
you know? Sure, but like you can still be
36:56
like really good at it and then oh, I got some off time.
37:00
I'll collect. You might not have amazing
37:02
amount of. Balance.
37:02
That's why I said. Still be interested in it.
37:04
That I mean, there's a difference between.
37:07
I think there's a distinction between, you know somebody who
37:10
is a Raider or a mythic plus runner who also likes mounts and
37:14
a mount collector. A mount collector plays the game
37:17
to collect mounts. Someone like yourself plays the
37:19
game for other reasons but also happens to collect mounts.
37:23
You know your sole purpose for the game isn't mount collecting.
37:26
Right, but like I I'm there are people who will identify
37:30
themselves as mount collectors. You probably do not have as many
37:33
mounts as as I do, right? There are people who will
37:38
identify themselves as like mount collectors who have
37:46
cutting edge and and have like pushed deep deeper into the raid
37:53
at difficulties that I don't even attempt.
37:56
I just, I don't think that the two are aligned.
37:59
Like, yes, your time is limited and you, you have to put it
38:02
towards something, but there are, there are people who are
38:05
just like, better than me at like one thing or another and
38:09
therefore don't have to put the time that I put at that thing.
38:14
And like, like their interests might align with mine, but
38:18
their, their ability, right. And their luck, because mount
38:22
collecting is like very much a huge portion of it is luck can
38:26
be, can be totally matched. But I did want to talk about
38:32
your forever behind comment because that's the other part of
38:36
this is that the teams that do get this and get all their teams
38:44
and, and such will have a significant power boost and that
38:47
will help them in their progression through this season.
38:54
Are they forever behind? Yes and no.
38:58
There are definitely times where you might have the luck of loot
39:02
that I've had this week where you go and you run time walking
39:06
because time walking was giving out, giving out heroic.
39:09
If you did the the five dungeons or you did the the raid and
39:15
killed enough bosses and you happen to get boots and then you
39:19
do another thing and you get boots and then you do another
39:22
thing and you get belt And it's just like the pieces that you
39:25
get might be misaligned in in the fact that like, why was time
39:32
walking in this season giving out cloaks?
39:35
Why did I get 3 cloaks? Oh, woe is me.
39:38
Or or in different ways. So like there's the possibility
39:46
that like the the loot isn't going to line line up as well,
39:50
right? Somebody who like gets it gets
39:53
doesn't, doesn't get a good piece.
39:55
Somebody who missed it one week, but the next week gets one of
39:58
those really good trinkets. Are they really that far behind?
40:03
Like it's, it's, there's a wash in that, But also there's the
40:06
fact that like, as these teams progress, as they, they are
40:10
pushing loot. They are going to get less from
40:15
these dungeons as it's more likely to hit the pieces that
40:18
they've already got their best in slot or something along those
40:22
lines in so like it isn't quite cut and dry.
40:28
And so when when Sean was saying Forever behind, I want to speak
40:32
to the audience, it's not like he wasn't thinking these things.
40:35
Often times I have conversations with Sean and I'm pedantically
40:38
saying things that Sean's already considered.
40:40
This is one of those times in my mind.
40:43
But I do want to say it because. Because you don't think the
40:47
audience will. Be in short form, huh?
40:49
Because you don't think the audience is as smart as me.
40:53
I think that like people will take you at your word and not
40:57
understand that you're short forming stuff and it has to be
41:00
spoken out. I want the audience to know that
41:02
I would never think that they weren't right with me to fully
41:09
answer Lex's question. If this was anything at all
41:13
other than mythic loot or shield trans mogs I wouldn't care what
41:19
they did with it. But I think if this was a
41:24
cosmetic thing that you would see the collector community piss
41:28
blood that it was only once a week and that it could be ruined
41:30
by somebody jumping off before you start a key.
41:33
Rightfully so, they already have the hardest job in the game.
41:39
Actually I just have a a super quick question for you guys.
41:42
As the less casual to the group, would you guys ever like hug
41:46
someone into this? Because I I guess I'm just like
41:48
like surprised by the fear of like somebody grieving you.
41:51
And I'm like, I cannot imagine doing something this hard and
41:54
this precise not with. And I guess, I guess if you're
41:57
pugging, if you have to pug, you like, you know, if you don't
41:59
have friends who want to do this with you, if you're friends with
42:01
me and you're like, Oh my God. Right.
42:03
I have a five, I have a five Man Group, but one of them's lack.
42:06
So we don't, we don't have anybody for hired mode.
42:09
Exactly. OK, I answered my own question.
42:11
Yeah, but no, I would not pug. I would.
42:12
There is zero chance I will pug this.
42:15
I will run this only with guildies and and and friends and
42:18
not even all my friends are. You going to run with me, Sean?
42:22
Are you going to invite me? No.
42:23
That's good. Are you going to invite me?
42:24
Because I value your feelings and I know that it would be too
42:28
stressful for you and I didn't want I wouldn't want to put you
42:30
in that situation. Thank you, Sean.
42:32
You're. Welcome.
42:33
And I consider Manny a mound collector, so that'll answer the
42:35
question of whether or not I'd invite him.
42:38
Yeah, I'll see myself out, but for the rest of us mere mortals
42:42
that want to get gear there? Is wait for legal reasons.
42:46
That was a joke. No, it wasn't.
42:50
I'm going to edit out the fact that you said that was a.
42:51
Joke. They're going to think I'm so
42:54
elitist, they'll be right. That was so good.
43:01
That was I'm really, really pleased with myself.
43:04
That was very clever. Sorry.
43:08
Well, for those of you who are not going to be pushing through
43:13
Tasvash hard mode trying to get your deathless runs, there is
43:16
more gear stuff coming up as part of a panel that we're going
43:22
to be talking about soon. Blizzard has announced that the
43:26
turbo boost is going to be coming back in season 3, so
43:32
we're looking at 11 point 2.5 again, Turbo boost.
43:36
For those of you who have short memories, that is when they
43:40
jacked up the levels that you could upgrade your gear by 6.
43:45
So you could get two more upgrades at the end of your
43:47
mythic track, your hero track or whatever, and gave everybody a
43:51
bit of boost of power. This was done in conjunction
43:57
with the dinars, but that is a separate system.
44:00
Want to make sure that people realize that that that ability
44:04
to buy trinkets was separate from this power boost.
44:07
I'm really glad that this is the thing coming back.
44:09
I think I like this more than the dinar system.
44:15
And I say that I'm really glad that this is the thing coming
44:18
back. But I think it is like of the
44:21
two, which one would I'd like more because I don't think I
44:25
like either one of them. To be truthful with you guys,
44:29
I've already said on previous things, I dislike how quickly
44:34
things become obsolete when you go from season to season.
44:38
And I dislike that like part way through the season.
44:42
Well, this is when the real push begins, and this is when we can
44:45
really see how far you can get in in your keys to see what the
44:50
new cap of keys is. And this power creep over the
44:54
course of a season means that, like, people who pushed early,
44:57
Well, yeah, that was just so you get your gear because the real
45:00
push is when these five events concur and give you like, an
45:04
extra 25% power. Anyways, that's my complaint
45:09
about this, but it's coming back.
45:11
What do you guys think? Let's start with you, Lex.
45:16
So I like the midway through the season, they're like, oh, it's
45:22
OK. I know, I know you don't have
45:23
AOTC yet. It's OK here, Here you go.
45:26
Yeah, No, you can get extra levels.
45:28
It's OK. I think that's good.
45:31
So I'm excited it's coming back. I'm sorry, Manny.
45:35
Totally fine. Like I understand I am likely in
45:38
the vast minority where I'm like, just let me get whatever
45:42
my season goal is, let me set at the beginning and be fine with
45:46
it, get the gear, see how far I can go and be like, that's where
45:50
my limit is. Not like, oh, sorry, that's
45:52
before you gave me like head and chance and I'm going back into
45:57
it again, Sean, I don't. Really have feelings on this
46:02
either. I do have a just a tip though
46:05
for everybody because we know this is coming.
46:08
You have the ability to trade up your crests at the Drac fear in
46:14
Donegal where you can turn your weather into carves.
46:16
You're carved into ruined. You're ruined into gilded.
46:19
If at all possible do not do that at all this season until
46:26
turbo boost. The reason is last season we had
46:30
multiple Guild members who never upgraded their crests.
46:32
They always just found out their new crests for the week when
46:35
turbo boost came they upgraded them all and didn't have to do a
46:39
single dungeon to Max out all their gear.
46:42
So if you can at all avoid upgrading your crests, do so and
46:47
then just farm your Max volto. Farm your Max Crest out every
46:51
week. As far as turbos goes, it's I
46:56
think it's an elegant way to nerf the raid, but it's so it's
47:01
good because it I I, I like when more people can clear the raid.
47:04
We are currently liberation of Undermine was the most cleared
47:07
raid of, I want to say all time, but if not all time, it was
47:12
definitely the first time in forever that the second tier
47:16
raid had more clears than the first tier raid did.
47:19
It was wildly successful, So many clears, turbo boost, so pro
47:25
more teams get to clear clear the content, more people get to
47:28
enjoy the content. More people then move up to a
47:31
next difficulty of content that they normally wouldn't get to
47:33
see. That's a pro Con is if you have
47:37
finished really early in the season, now you have to like
47:41
come back at the midway point. A lot of people play the game
47:43
seasonally. If you finish really early now,
47:45
you have to come back at the midway point to catch your
47:47
character back up to speed for the preparation into midnight.
47:51
I know you're going to say, oh, it doesn't matter midnight
47:53
because it's all going to get gear when we level through
47:54
midnight and this gear won't matter.
47:56
But there are people who need to optimize everything, so they'll
47:59
need to do that. Lex, you have a question before
48:01
I do my next con. What I was going to say is it's
48:04
it's, it's the change on expansion, so.
48:07
It's. All going to go away and it's
48:10
but like listen, if you if you feel, if you experience joy when
48:14
you optimize things knowing that they'll be meaningless, good for
48:17
you. That was really that was really
48:19
condescending. I'm so sorry.
48:20
I mean that genuinely, I genuinely like, play the game
48:24
the way that makes you happy. Sorry, what's your next con?
48:26
Don't let Lex get you down, she's not going to have any
48:28
mythic pieces from Tessa Fishhard mode.
48:30
I sure I probably don't have any mythic pieces.
48:34
You can. She's going to be so far.
48:37
Behind and then my next con is if you're somebody who kills the
48:40
raid around that .5 mark turbo boost, it can go one of two
48:46
ways. Option one, hey, we get a boost
48:49
to get the get past the last boss or two, get over that.
48:52
I'm great. But the other side to that is if
48:55
you're close to a kill on on dementias and turbo boost kicks
48:59
in, you're now robbed of that opportunity to see if you could
49:03
have done it at that lower item level because you're going to up
49:06
up gear to the next level and get that kill.
49:08
So it's trying to pulls the rug out.
49:09
It can pull the rug out from under you.
49:11
That one. There's no like there's a pro
49:13
Anicon there with that one with it coming out of the .5 patch,
49:18
yeah. And I guess my only complaint is
49:21
that I can't trade crests between my alts and my main SO.
49:26
There's a new that comes back with turbo boost.
49:28
Sorry. Maybe that comes back with turbo
49:31
boost? I don't think we've ever been
49:32
able to trade crests between alts.
49:33
Oh wait, no crests. I'm thinking valor.
49:36
Nevermind. Yeah, yeah, Valor.
49:38
Valor is like a nothing burger anyway.
49:39
I don't know anybody who's not. So yeah, Valor should just not
49:44
exist. For the, for the, for the
49:46
listeners at home, I've definitely run out of valor.
49:50
OK wait, are you currently valor cap?
49:53
Because I think that was what the sentence was going.
49:55
I'm surely not. Continue flex, right?
50:00
There you go. Now you know.
50:02
Casual. We know I'm the casual.
50:05
But yeah, it's so I don't know, I just there's like a 0% chance
50:09
I'm going to look at Turbo Boost and my 4 alts and think I can't
50:13
wait to do 42 more plus twelves for all of them.
50:16
And actually I think it was higher than I think it was like
50:21
84 I had to do. It was a ridiculous number
50:23
anyway. I don't know, I did not mean to
50:25
just double that first number. I said, but that's that's what
50:28
happened. But that was coming back.
50:29
But this isn't news because they told us they had an interview
50:33
like a month ago where they said, yeah, we really like Turbo
50:35
Boost and we'd like to see something like that come back in
50:37
season 3. And then it's like the Internet
50:40
forgot that they said that and that they read it.
50:42
We actually reported that. Yeah, but they said, they said
50:46
they would like to see something like that.
50:48
We didn't know exactly and we didn't know if it was going to
50:52
so for them to well. And they've never not had like
50:57
made like the halfway point of the patch is always when they
50:59
just start like finding a way to just throw things at you, which
51:02
again, I like because I like the fact that if I have been
51:05
struggling with things, they say it's OK.
51:07
No, no, no, no, no, it's OK. You don't have to quit Mythic
51:10
plus it's OK. Look, you get more.
51:13
We knew that interview was legit because it wasn't an Ian quote.
51:17
Your hate of Ian. Continues.
51:20
I think he's lovely and I think the game has climbed like
51:24
decades above where it was since he took over as game director.
51:27
I think Ian is doing a fantastic job but I need to be curmudgeon
51:31
abled somebody and I think Morgan Day is a sweetheart, so
51:35
Ian gets it. Yeah, we got him.
51:37
We all have to have the one person that we name and shame on
51:39
the podcast, which Manny, you have to pick yours.
51:41
Who's the dev that you want to publicly state your dislike of?
51:45
Not just like we love you. Yeah, I got none.
51:48
I have. I have different people who are
51:50
no longer part of Blizzard that I think are absolute ass hats.
51:54
But we won't mention you better than this episode.
51:57
Let's move on. Manny, he's one of us.
52:00
Dear God, something we can all look forward to.
52:05
I. Bet you he does it.
52:06
Definitely no. Let's not talk about him.
52:08
Let's move on. I'm sorry.
52:10
OK, so something we can look forward to is the Legion Remix,
52:16
which is going to be our last story of this episode.
52:20
We had a Wow cast that came out where they unleashed all this
52:25
information about Legion remix. It looks like they have taken
52:30
the formula for Mr. Pandera Remix and then amped it up a
52:35
bit. They talked about how you're
52:39
going to have the 12 Legion classes to play through and go
52:45
through. That experience is going to be
52:48
an accelerated pace. However, it is going to have
52:53
some time gating. I said the word time gating.
52:56
I'm really sorry guys. You're not going to be able to
52:59
kill Argus on day one. Quitting the game.
53:03
Yeah, there's a lot of improvements that they have
53:08
done, like bronze is purely cosmetic.
53:11
That is something I know, Sean, you and I were a little little
53:15
giving you a little side eye at 1st and then we realized, hey,
53:17
once you get the power, then you'll get enough bronze.
53:20
And they made multiple improvements along the way of
53:24
Mr. Pandaria so that like we were swimming with bronze by the
53:26
end of it, just like Remix before, we're getting a lot of
53:33
cosmetics like the pets, the mounts, the transmog gear.
53:37
Things that they have said that is that are coming back along
53:40
those lines include the artefact weapons, not the mage tower.
53:49
People are upset about that friendship Burb coming back as
53:54
well as the class mounts, but with a new fell green version
54:00
for all of them. I don't know what that means for
54:02
warlocks because we already had a fell green version, but this
54:05
is like I guess a more fell green Rasteed.
54:12
There's also like a number of things, like different variants
54:15
of stuff that that didn't exist in Legion, but it's very much
54:20
Legion, Legion esque. So Manoroff's shield, the
54:25
corrupted version of Varian's sword, which looks so good.
54:33
I got to get that for my warrior.
54:37
The, the thing that is is exciting me most is that for
54:44
world quest for the outdoor world, they are taking a page
54:49
from Diablo and actually having different tiers of difficulty
54:53
for the, for the world. I'm hoping and like knock on
54:59
wood, I'm not going to knock because I don't want this to
55:02
screw up the recording. I'm hoping that this is
55:07
something that they're testing for the main game because we've
55:13
said it here a number of times, or at least I've said it here a
55:15
number of times that like outdoor world content need some
55:18
teeth. And this might be this might be
55:22
exactly what I need. This might be me biting off more
55:24
than I could chew and I will be happy for that.
55:28
What are you guys excited for in in Legion that I haven't talked
55:32
about because there's a number of things in here.
55:35
I'm going to throw this one to Sean first.
55:38
When am I supposed to play this because I'll be busy gearing my
55:41
characters up from the turbo boost during the 11 point 2.5.
55:47
Sean, you could always exposure therapy, not maxing everything
55:50
like you, you could, you could do that as like a personal goal,
55:52
Like I'm going to see how it feels to not do everything that
55:56
I can do this season. Sure, Alex, I.
55:58
Get where your head's at Alex. But think about it this way, he
56:01
would just be like supplanting mid maxing his live character
56:05
for supplant for mid maxing his character in Legion.
56:08
So would it help at all in that way?
56:10
Because you're something we're also not thinking about here.
56:13
It just it seems like a lot. I liked that panda like they
56:17
mentioned. Hey, we're putting everything
56:18
back in all the dungeons, all the raids, all the campaign
56:21
quests, all the class, all quests, all the artifact quests
56:24
and we're going to time gate it. Every two weeks you get a new
56:27
flavorful of this stuff. It just feels like a lot to jam
56:32
into the four month window that is .5 up to 12 point O.
56:41
And on top of that we have turbo boost like I sort of tongue in
56:44
cheek mentioned, but there's going to be midnight alpha at
56:47
the exact same time at midnight beta.
56:49
Like it's sort of what happened with classic Mop classic
56:53
launching right at the same time as 11.2.
56:56
And when there are people who genuinely like, severely suffer
57:01
from the need to collect everything, who will lose sleep
57:07
and 'cause themselves like, not like, it will, it will damage
57:10
themselves to make sure they get everything and do all of this
57:14
while also doing all those other things.
57:17
I feel like it's too much. There's twelve class campaigns.
57:22
Pandaria remix that happened during a season 4 right?
57:27
Am I fully making that up? Yes, yeah.
57:30
So when nothing was happening. Yeah, I do kind of agree that if
57:37
you're not going to have a season 4, why are you giving me
57:39
filler content? Like respectfully, remix
57:43
Pandaria was filler content. To be fair though, I was not a
57:48
remix girlie so I've not been paying heavy attention to Legion
57:51
in general. Like Legion Remix in general, I
57:54
know that it's some people's thing.
57:55
So I mean to yuck anyone's Yum. For me personally, it felt like
57:58
I didn't get into it right away. And then when I did get into it,
58:00
everyone was just like face rolling everything.
58:02
Which like, it's fun for a few runs to go through a dungeon and
58:05
all you're doing is trot trot trotting behind somebody while
58:07
they wipe it out. And then you kind of get sick of
58:09
that. But that's my own problem.
58:10
I I wasn't playing like Sean. I wasn't even maxing.
58:13
And that's my own fault. But yeah, I think I kind of am
58:18
on your side with this Sean. That it it it.
58:22
This is something to throw in when we're in a lot like a a
58:27
content lull, not with a .5. Yeah, there there will be people
58:33
who still haven't finished the raid, right?
58:34
Like raid teams will still be progressing.
58:37
It's, I don't know, it just feels like a lot.
58:39
Not to complain endlessly about Blizzard's new road maps, but I
58:43
feel like this is kind of the downfall of the road map, which
58:47
is that if something is in the road map, they feel like they
58:49
have to put it in right. Like if they're going to put a
58:52
Legion, maybe I'm wrong, Manny's making face of me that makes me
58:54
think that I'm wrong. But if like I, I, I feel like
58:58
Legion remix is something to have in your little back pocket
59:02
for when you know that your team is going to need help, right?
59:06
And they're going to need to be able to have a longer mid patch
59:09
or they're going to need to put in a Season 4 that they didn't
59:11
originally want. And you need something so that
59:14
people don't, you know, send death threats on Twitter.
59:17
And you're like, OK, yeah. So we're doing the Season 4.
59:19
And while we're announcing Season 4, also Legion Remix,
59:23
right? Putting it in on the road map
59:25
and making it a part of the game in general leads to it not being
59:30
like makes it filler content that has to go in even if you
59:33
don't need filler content. Yeah.
59:39
I'd love your thoughts. Money.
59:41
Oh, I'm going to be the meanest that I can be to do poor
59:46
collectors. Even though Sean thinks, and I'm
59:49
I'm one of you, get over it. I'm sorry.
59:53
I think that part of the thrill of collecting should be the
59:58
hunt. I think that.
1:00:01
You have to prioritize. I hate that people go and and
1:00:04
complain every month that I don't have enough tenders to get
1:00:07
everything in the in the trading post.
1:00:11
Well, then you don't get everything in the traders post.
1:00:13
Make priorities. If if this is going to hurt you
1:00:17
to not have everything, then you need to adjust your view.
1:00:25
Like Sean's talking about like, hey, like I want to hunt trans
1:00:29
mog. We want to talk about all trans
1:00:30
mog. He likes shield trans mog
1:00:33
because he prioritizes raiding mythic plus and stuff.
1:00:36
And he's like, I'm not going to collect every trans mog.
1:00:39
That's too much. So even with all the time that
1:00:43
Sean says he has to play on North America and Europe and do
1:00:47
all these things, he, he narrows his focus down so that like he
1:00:51
can maintain sanity and maintain real life relationships.
1:00:55
Like apparently he's got a, a woman that he lives with.
1:00:58
Like I don't want to preach about.
1:01:02
Did you just balance but everything?
1:01:04
In moderation, including Wow, did you?
1:01:07
Just refer to Anjali as a woman that I live with.
1:01:13
I was just giving the general thing like you have
1:01:15
relationships that you maintain that you prioritize, right?
1:01:20
And like I didn't want to like go to down the preachy Rd.
1:01:24
because I'm already like veering so hard into it.
1:01:27
But I think that if you are somebody who wants to get the
1:01:32
stuff from Mr. Pandaria, but sorry rather from Legion Remix,
1:01:38
but also wants to get the stuff currently on on live, yes, you
1:01:42
are going to have to make a choice.
1:01:43
I think that the last patch of a expansion right where the gear
1:01:49
is going to be made relatively obsolete by by the next
1:01:55
expansion and you want to collect everything, then
1:01:58
prioritize Legion remix because that's there temporarily.
1:02:03
And when you are level 90 and able to squash everything in
1:02:07
Koresh, come back and stomp that.
1:02:10
Yes, it's it's going to come at you a little bit faster than you
1:02:13
can deal with right now. But like I also want options for
1:02:19
the people who are like done with Koresh.
1:02:21
Maybe they went through the story and the the story ended
1:02:25
this this week except for the except for the epilogue.
1:02:30
If you happen to be stuck behind the story mode raid clear,
1:02:35
you're going to have to wait for that.
1:02:36
And there are people who aren't doing everything, but they
1:02:39
should still get content. There are people who love love
1:02:43
collecting, don't like rating, but they should still get
1:02:46
collect content. There are people who missed
1:02:48
legion in the 1st place and this is a way cool accessible way to
1:02:52
way to do it. So like, yes, it's not there for
1:02:57
everybody, right? But like, just like how this,
1:03:02
this version of hard mode Tazewesh effects some people,
1:03:07
negatively effects some people, gives some stuff for some people
1:03:11
to do. There are going to be things
1:03:14
where Blitzer's going to put out stuff that maybe isn't for you
1:03:17
or conflicts with stuff that you're already trying to do.
1:03:20
And I think as gamers, we should accept that and not expect them
1:03:24
to put out the perfect calendar. So I can get everything in
1:03:27
classic and everything in retail and then everything when Mr.
1:03:32
Panteria drops. And then poor Sean, who might
1:03:35
not like any of, sorry, I keep saying Mr. Panteria when Legion
1:03:38
drops, and then poor Sean, who doesn't like any of this, has to
1:03:40
wait around 12 months for you to collect everything.
1:03:43
That doesn't feel fair to Sean either.
1:03:45
But Sean, you had a point to to go against this.
1:03:48
Go ahead. It's not to go against it, I
1:03:50
just wanted to know or wanted to ask, do we not have to make
1:03:56
enough sacrifices in real life for things that we want and
1:04:00
can't have? Is it not OK for us to be able
1:04:02
to just get everything in a video game?
1:04:05
Yes and no. That's supposed to bring joy.
1:04:09
It's not supposed to be a microcosm to teach us how to
1:04:11
deal with life. It's just supposed to be a fun
1:04:14
thing we play. OK, I collect mounts and I love
1:04:21
collecting mounts and it's a fun thing.
1:04:23
It's a fun thing I play, but I'm never going to get PvP mounts.
1:04:26
That's always going to be a gap for me, right?
1:04:29
Don't you want and I could do. It and I could or I could be
1:04:31
like Blizzard you should stop doing PvP mounts because mount
1:04:34
collectors and PvP players are completely opposite.
1:04:37
Because those people who get glad they spend their time
1:04:39
fighting, not collecting mounts. That's true, and that seems like
1:04:42
a very silly argument that we would never have on this show.
1:04:48
It's true. I think it's true, yeah.
1:04:50
I mean, the fact you don't have glad mounts proves it.
1:04:58
Sean was right. Yeah.
1:05:03
Go get some glad mounts. Yeah.
1:05:06
I mean, lead. Your remix is probably going to
1:05:08
be fun. I imagine Twitter will love it
1:05:12
because they love things. Yeah.
1:05:14
I don't know. I don't, I know I don't.
1:05:17
I would love to experience. I think it'll be cool to
1:05:18
experience the story of the the classes I haven't play because I
1:05:21
didn't play Legion when it was current.
1:05:23
But just where this is launching, I already know, you
1:05:28
know, And in .7 we're getting housing, so it's like, I don't
1:05:32
know. Yeah.
1:05:33
And it doesn't matter. It'll be playing a solo game
1:05:36
anyway because the world's are all going to be phased as people
1:05:38
playing different difficulties. Yeah, that's the thing that I, I
1:05:42
definitely want to test this out because like the different world
1:05:45
tiers on top of phasing when things get busy or on top of
1:05:51
like different, different realms and stuff, I'm hoping that it
1:05:54
doesn't segment the world too much.
1:05:56
Like there's gonna, there's gonna have to be some, some sort
1:06:01
of thing that they're doing to make this work.
1:06:03
But yeah, no, I'm excited. I'm excited for it, at least the
1:06:07
prospect of it, assuming that I can, you know, find the time.
1:06:11
But you're right. If I'm in like the alpha or the
1:06:15
beta, yeah, sorry, Legion remix, you're taking the backseat.
1:06:20
What about you, Lex? Anything like you're really
1:06:22
excited for in here? I'm.
1:06:23
Probably gonna go in and get some trans monks.
1:06:28
Yeah, that's probably. I did play through lead band and
1:06:31
it was really fun. But I think I'm going to be
1:06:34
trying to get AOTC or after having AOTC or hopefully doing
1:06:39
midnight stuff. And like I said, I was just not
1:06:43
I, I really did not play Pandaria Remix a lot and I was
1:06:46
really excited about Pandaria Remix.
1:06:49
So I'm not counting on me being at all motivated to play lead
1:06:54
remix, but we'll see. There's been plenty of things
1:06:56
that I was like, I do not care about this.
1:06:57
And then it was fun. I can't think of any examples,
1:07:00
but I think they've happened. I believe.
1:07:02
Can I give a special shout out to chat?
1:07:03
The chat just made me chuckle pretty hard.
1:07:06
OK, go, go ahead. After my rebuttal to Manny's
1:07:11
statement, chat said Sean says can't we just collect everything
1:07:15
but also Sean accept anything from mythic filthy casuals?
1:07:23
See, you're, you're, you're a nuanced man.
1:07:25
You're onion. You've got multiple layers
1:07:27
there. It's make me try when I try and
1:07:29
figure a new deal through them. Yeah, we're working with me.
1:07:32
I've been told before that working with me is tear
1:07:35
inducing, so yeah. Well, we're going to call it
1:07:41
here. Thank you so much on and Lex for
1:07:45
for this episode. We'll be back next week.
1:07:48
And until next time guys, may all your hits be crits.