Latest / We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits / 455. A Conversation About Mental Health in the Nonprofit Sector - Sonya Perez-Lauterbach, Kirk Brown, Lindsay Kolsch, and Paige Chenault Lohoefer

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455. A Conversation About Mental Health in the Nonprofit Sector - Sonya Perez-Lauterbach, Kirk Brown, Lindsay Kolsch, and Paige Chenault Lohoefer · We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I do believe the strength of a good leader is based on the wounds of his team and their ability to really analyze and see those wounds and also impact wellness as an initiative.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Because if we do believe that wellness adds to worth, then we must plan for it, because we have to make space for wellness or it doesn't happen.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Right Things that we consider to be important we plan for.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: Hey, I'm John and I'm Becky and this is the we Are For Good podcast.
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: So welcome to the good community.
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: We're non-profit professionals, philanthropists, world changers and rabbit fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: So let's get started, becky, what's happening?
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: I'll tell you what's happening.
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: I have a big smile on my face because we're continuing the heartbeat of having mental health discussions on the podcast.
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: We're sitting in the midst of the summer of evolution.
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: We are lifting and relifting some of the greatest episodes and conversations that we've had on the podcast because we want you to evolve and having strong mental health conversations has got to be part and parcel to that conversation.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think there was an audible pause in the room when we brought the idea and the discussion of mental health to the forefront of the Responsive Nonprofit Summit earlier this year.
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: That we did in collaboration with Virtuous, because we wanted to create space to continue to normalize talking about this.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: We think the only way forward is to name it, to own it, to understand it and just be open with each other about our own struggles, and so this conversation, the people that are pouring into this conversation, are just some of our favorite humans too, so I'm so excited to lift this panel today.
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: So let us introduce you to them.
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: One is Sonia Perez Latterbox.
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: She is an incredible leadership coach and a really outstanding member, an active member of our community.
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: We were delighted to have Kirk Brown, who is the CEO of Handy, which is an incredible social service organization out of Broward County, florida, serving teens and youth.
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: We had Lindsay Colst.
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: Do you remember when to write Love on Her Arms came onto our podcast and then we pulled them into our panelists?
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: But Lindsay is just a dynamic voice of Twa Lo Ha that's to write Love on Her Arms, giving incredible insight about how to create spaces of belonging and care for others.
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: And then, finally, we had Paige Chenalt Lo Hafer.
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: She is the founder of the Birthday Party Project and is just going through an incredible sabbatical and on her own mental health journey.
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: So we hope that these four individuals really help you feel seen and they're really working to break down and lift the stigma about the experiences and the mental health challenges we have in the sector.
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: Please do yourself a little gift today Listen to this episode.
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: I promise you won't regret it.
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: I just want everyone who is tuning in and listening to this to know that we see the mental health crisis that is occurring not only in nonprofit, but it's occurring everywhere.
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: We have listened to your stories.
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: I literally got one yesterday that was a personal sort of rendition of what's happening to someone in St Louis and how she's feeling at the bottom of her bucket.
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: We are going to talk about how do we build a community of care, how do we build mental health principles and ideals into our organization, how do we take care of ourselves and start to move from burnout into vitality?
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: So I got to kick it to my friend Kirk first and say we got to talk about just the state of mental health that's occurring now in the nonprofit sector.
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: I mean, it is no secret that we are experiencing record levels of burnout, that we're seeing an exhaustion that are really held by our internal teams.
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: I know you've talked about this in the past, talking about how you're seeing this crisis unfold in your corner of the world and any nuances you've been able to observe.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: I think one of the things we're seeing at a high burnout level in our industry is the regular case manager therapist signs on to maybe two or four explosions a week.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: When we all went into this profession and went into our collegiate careers and we were like we're going to save the world, we anticipated two to four explosions a week.
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: And there's things that have happened over the past eight years from a macro perspective that has really escalated the depths of the issues that we're seeing in our community and the depths of the solutions that we have, the deeper solutions that we have to go into.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: And so now our people are seeing eight to 10 explosions per week in families and communities of need, and so the intensity of what they do have gone through the roof.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: There's no matter of a fact therapy anymore, it's all intensive therapy.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: There's no matter of a fact case management, it's all intensive case management.
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: And so that takes a toll on the employee and from an organizational perspective, we just have to say to ourselves is a five day work week possible anymore, given the intensity of what we're seeing?
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: Do we need to make space in our organizations for individuals that are witnessing some very intensive therapeutic fallout in communities, for them to be able to off-board and onboard back into the organization and into the lives of these communities.
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: And thank you for starting there because it echoes just as I meet community members from across the country and world of just the reality that we're facing right now as nonprofit professionals.
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: And so, sonia, I want to kick it to you, because you have a lot of these deep conversations as you're coaching and just working with people.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: What are some of those unique factors to this nonprofit work that maybe is not as abundant in other sectors?
• 6:16
  Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, courageous said a phrase that I think we can all relate to, and that is we're going to save the world.
• 6:23
  Speaker 5: We work so hard, we care so deeply.
• 6:27
  Speaker 5: That's a part of our identity, and so when there are these additional crisis things and I think our nervous system gets so caught up in that to where we don't even know how to take a step back, right To where every email is crisis right Because we're so amped up and we care so deeply, and so it's bringing that awareness to acknowledge our deep care and say that that is good, but also knowing how to hold our passion for the thing as well as to say I don't have to save the world, like that was a thought that has been really helpful to me.
• 7:15
  Speaker 5: To say, oh okay, I don't have to save the world and I have deep passion and ideas and creativity and care to give to the people that are around me, to show up in ways that are nurturing for what I have.
• 7:34
  Speaker 5: So I have to fill up my cup so that I have the ability to show up for the people around me.
• 7:40
  Speaker 5: And I do want to say, for this sector, I think, and even for this conversation, there is definitely some very acute mental health conversations that we need to have.
• 7:53
  Speaker 5: But as an industry, I think we need to think of it broader than just the diagnosis, those individuals who are able to access the diagnosis and really look at mental wellness and even mental fitness.
• 8:07
  Speaker 5: You know, we're all on this larger spectrum of.
• 8:10
  Speaker 5: We're humans with human brains, and how are we caring for them?
• 8:15
  Speaker 5: You know, sometimes our computer slows down and we're like, oh, need a reboot.
• 8:19
  Speaker 5: But we don't give that to ourselves, right?
• 8:22
  Speaker 5: We just think that we're beyond machine.
• 8:24
  Speaker 5: And so how do we balance our care and commitment for the world and ourself as humans?
• 8:32
  Speaker 5: Like what we bring to the world is our beautiful humaneness.
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and in that humaneness, the beautiful brokenness you know, that is so much of fabric of our story.
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: Thank you for saying that, sonia, and even talking about some of those somatic feelings, the way our body feels and, you know, trouble with sleeping these are not just things that happen while we're on the clock, they happen all the time and I can see in the chat this is really resonating.
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: I love Tamara's comment about this.
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: Trauma does predate COVID and it's like it is built in into the way that our sector moves.
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: And there has got to be a lot of unwinding and I think I'm gonna pitch this to Lindsay next, because I think this concept of community of care is so important and I think Twiloha, who has done a masterful job in our opinion, of building this digital movement, really of you know, grounded in caring and affirming for people and encouraging them to talk about their story, because the stigma of talking about these issues really keeps us from speaking it out loud.
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: And we're saying you know that we need to speak this out loud, we need to find community in this, and so I want you to talk about how you've actually done this and the importance of building this community of care, because Twiloha has done this for over a decade.
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: You have this beautiful community and talk about the benefits that you all have seen it yield.
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: When you talk about the thing that no one wants to talk about, yeah, I mean, it's hard to even kind of encapsulate.
• 10:07
  Speaker 4: I think everything that everyone has already said at least sets the stage for this pretty well.
• 10:11
  Speaker 4: But I think, as people we say this often people need other people.
• 10:16
  Speaker 4: You know Kirk talked about the mental health inequities, just even on an infrastructure basis for one, you know, there's 500 plus counties in the United States that don't actually have any mental health services, and so, as a mental health nonprofit, when we're reframing the conversation, even in this month which is Mental Health Awareness Month, we're thought, gee, we love pointing to therapy and we want people to know there's no stigma and there's no shame in reaching out to someone who's licensed and professional and who can provide you the care.
• 10:47
  Speaker 4: But what do you do in a situation where that message is not actually accessible for everyone?
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: If every person raised their hand today and say I want to take, I want to get into mental health care, I think the average standard weight right now is 48 days, but it could be even longer, up to six months, and that's not acceptable.
• 11:05
  Speaker 4: But that's where we're at, and so we realized pretty early on that people need other people and there's so much about mental health and mental illness that isolates, like when I'm dealing with depression or anxiety, my first reaction and whether I you know, I was nurtured this way or grew up this way, or it's our culture you start to withdraw.
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: You naturally withdraw and so reaching out and creating a community that accepts the hey, I'm having a hard day or I need to step away, or we love the idea even of sabbatical right, like this practice of identifying the needs and then allowing it to exist.
• 11:42
  Speaker 4: People do not want to be fixed, they want to be seen, and that's kind of a premise of our community-based model is validating the experience and knowing that we might not have the answers or we're not going to slap a band-aid on it, but we believe that you need help, that you deserve help, that you deserve support, that you deserve care in those moments.
• 12:03
  Speaker 4: And so it's really sitting with the discomfort and allowing people as anyone in the field.
• 12:10
  Speaker 4: You don't have to be a mental health professional, you just recognize that this is what it means to be human.
• 12:16
  Speaker 4: It's part of being human.
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: I think that stigma piece that keeps us in that discomfort of going there or saying, oh, can I ask about that?
• 12:24
  Speaker 4: It's because we kind of don't know always what to do to fix it.
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: But that's not really what people are looking for.
• 12:29
  Speaker 4: They don't want to be fixed, they want to know that what they're dealing with doesn't make them unlovable, doesn't make them to be rejected as part of a community.
• 12:39
  Speaker 4: I'm hoping you can still see me.
• 12:40
  Speaker 4: My screen just went blank, so that was my yes, that was basically the idea, and our movement started with one friend getting help, and so I think those close relationships really proved, like when people show up for you or when people are willing to walk with you through the hardest things, even if you don't have hope, it shows you that somebody's holding hope for you and that sometimes is what gets you through.
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: So when we have a scarcity of resources right now, I think the amazing and beautiful thing is about being human is that we all have that capacity to show up for one another and to make space for each other If we know that it's actually acceptable and okay.
• 13:20
  Speaker 4: Like you don't have to have a perfect answer to why someone's struggling with depression or a remedy or prescription, you don't have to be their therapist, you just have to know that they deserve to have that care and space and you can hold that space for them.
• 13:33
  Speaker 4: So that's a kind of a foundational perspective that we take to it.
• 13:38
  Speaker 4: I also know and I'll stop talking because I could talk about this all day Sorry, john and Becky, I'm sorry, we're loving it the WHO talks about and I think someone mentioned another study there but it talks about stigma.
• 13:51
  Speaker 4: right, it's the voice that tells us we've learned it in our bodies Ooh, don't go there, don't say that thing, don't say you struggle with anxiety on a web stream at 2 pm on a Wednesday.
• 13:59
  Speaker 4: But I am and I'm okay with that.
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: But really I think the human interaction, the repetition, the experience of being seen and known and it being okay, that quality of that connection, that quality of that interaction, that's really what kills stigma, that's really what ends stigma is the quality of the interactions we have with other humans that give us the nonverbal and verbal cues that truly it's okay for this to be something you're dealing with.
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: You're facing burnout.
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: It's real, believe it or not.
• 14:32
  Speaker 4: In some countries, employers are responsible, like liable, if employees face burnout, and so I think that's like a oh, that's an interesting fact and it's unthinkable to us.
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: But as a nonprofit leader, I think we should start seeing ourselves as sort of caring for the whole person.
• 14:53
  Speaker 4: And so I'll stop talking, because there's so much more wisdom to be shared, but this is something I'm just so passionate about.
• 14:59
  Speaker 4: So thank you for inviting me to kind of add my piece here.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I mean we feel your passion and just feel the safety and the language honestly to talk about this, to normalize this.
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: And so, paige, I want to kick to your experience, because the birthday party project not only works with kids experiencing homelessness to provide these birthday parties, but I mentioned your rabid fans of party enthusiasts, your volunteers that surround these kids, that certainly have a lot of mental health factors playing into their own personal experience, but you're also trying to nurture and care for your team and your volunteers.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: Can you talk about that?
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: I mean, what are some of the ways that you've had this community of care representative through your mission?
• 15:39
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 15:39
  Speaker 6: So we believe at the birthday party project that everyone should feel seen and known and celebrated not just those that we celebrate with, but really that community right.
• 15:50
  Speaker 6: And so for us that really starts at the core.
• 15:52
  Speaker 6: It starts with our team and being really intentional about the ways we interact with our team.
• 15:58
  Speaker 6: I think it's really easy for nonprofit executives especially, but really any nonprofit worker like we just get caught up in the day to day, right, and we're constantly busy and busy and busy, and one of the ways that I think we best counteract that is through systems.
• 16:14
  Speaker 6: So for us, we have systems in place that allow us to make sure everyone feels seen and known and celebrated and, kind of tactically speaking, this is how it works.
• 16:25
  Speaker 6: We meet weekly and we weekly as a team and in that team environment it is, it is sacred space.
• 16:33
  Speaker 6: It is a safe space to share ideas.
• 16:35
  Speaker 6: It's a safe space to share concerns, but also we celebrate our wins the same ways that we celebrate our failures, because our failures are what leads to the next best or the great step, right.
• 16:48
  Speaker 6: So taking away any of the stigma around failure or mistakes is something that we work really hard at.
• 16:55
  Speaker 6: The other thing is is we take time to play.
• 16:58
  Speaker 6: I think that play is a great way to build trust between individuals and individuals, build community, and so for us, playing is just as important as the work right?
• 17:10
  Speaker 6: And then we celebrate milestones, not only professional milestones but personal milestones.
• 17:15
  Speaker 6: Not only do we do this with our team, because that's really important and critical, but, as you mentioned, our birthday enthusiast community.
• 17:22
  Speaker 6: One of the things that I am most proud of is this team of what we call party coordinators or ambassadors of our mission.
• 17:30
  Speaker 6: These are 150 ish dedicated volunteers around the country, so we're not interacting with them on a daily basis, but what we are doing is making sure that we recognize their commitment to our mission.
• 17:44
  Speaker 6: So every year that they are a part of our mission, they get a pin that signifies what year they've been with us.
• 17:52
  Speaker 6: So we build flair on lanyards right, and this is an opportunity for pride when they come to our birthday parties.
• 18:00
  Speaker 6: They're the ones hosting our parties, so they show up and they've got lanyards all over the place and it's for us it's a way to make sure that we are able to pour into them so that they do continue to feel recognized.
• 18:14
  Speaker 6: But then they're paying that forward to our birthday enthusiasts our volunteers, and so, with our volunteers and our donors, the system that we have in place alerts us to opportunities to acknowledge them, right.
• 18:26
  Speaker 6: So, whether it's a t-shirt for X amount of times volunteering with us, a sticker for sharing their birthday, high fives, email, handwritten thank you letters, we're on the other side, trying to be proactive with our approach to care right, we're not in it.
• 18:43
  Speaker 6: The ways in which Kurt and Lindsay are talking about we're really on the.
• 18:46
  Speaker 6: We're trying to infuse it from the top down, I guess, and so the ways that we do that best is through systems.
• 18:55
  Speaker 6: I believe that systems are kind of that backstop for us to be able to look up and to be alert to the things that are going on around us, and that's how we're able to celebrate well.
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: Okay, this is why we love the birthday party projects so much, and I love that you brought up failure, because it is inevitably the F word in nonprofit, and we have to get rid of that, because failure is learning.
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: We are learning as we're growing and we cannot be stigmatized by it, because we're moving forward.
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: Each time we figure out one of our failures and the things that don't work.
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: And I just have to compliment you, paige, because every time I see the birthday party project, anything that you're doing, it is an infusion of joy, and I feel that so much in what you do for the kids.
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: And so I want to talk a little bit about how we make the case for greater mental health support for our teams, and so I'm going to kick this to everybody, but I want to start with you, kirk, because I just think you have such awareness and humanity and the way that you really protect and fight for your team.
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: So how do you create a flexible workplace culture, an environment where there's open communication, there's flexibility, there's work life balance?
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: Share what's worked for handy, maybe at your nonprofit, in your role, or even what's worked for you personally.
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: I would love to kick that question to everybody, starting with Kirk.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: I think, for, for handy, 85% of our staff are lived experience staff, so they're from the communities and off the community, and so I think it's a mindset from the fabric of the board all the way down to the front line to make sure our number one equity statement is our front line team and the people that work here.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: They're valiant heroes doing a job.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: We also have to think about who you promote and who you put in positions of power within your organization, because if they're not, wellness focus, I do believe the strength of a good leader is based on the wounds of his team and their ability to really analyze and see those wounds and also impact wellness as an initiative, because if we do believe that wellness adds to worth, then we must plan for it, and so, tactically, what that looks like is we have our on par discussion today, and in the middle of it, we just stopped everything and said okay, how are the managers feeling on this call?
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: How are the kids feeling?
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: Make space and grace and a place to affect change and also involve them in the decision of their own wellness and how the organization.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: And we always ask ourselves what 25% of this are we accountable for?
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: Right, what are we going to do to change this for that individual that is in front of us?
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: Because we have to make space for wellness or it doesn't happen.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: Right Things that we consider to be important, we plan for.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: We're taking a quick pause to get real with you, friends.
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: Because, let's face it, it's a new world.
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: Donor expectations are higher than ever and donors want to know what their personal impact will be, which means we need to start by building a truly resonant message.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: And if you follow, we Are For Good.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: You know we're advocates for nonprofits' need to disrupt and adapt in order to grow, and our friends at Foster Avenue agree.
• 22:51
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• 22:55
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• 22:58
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• 23:09
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• 23:19
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• 23:24
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• 23:31
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• 23:36
  Speaker 2: That's fosteravnucom slash good, incredible insights.
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: I mean, anybody else want to jump in on that?
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: No, just kidding.
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: Go for it, lindsay, you got anything to add.
• 23:55
  Speaker 4: I mean I'm just standing ovation for care, care, no, I think it's so much of what you're saying makes so much sense.
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: I think it's to write love in our cultural commitments to one another.
• 24:06
  Speaker 4: Mental health is a priority and I think we've had to create systems.
• 24:11
  Speaker 4: I love the page you were talking about systems.
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: We've had to build that into the infrastructure of the way, like, for example, if you're, if you're taking time to see a mental health professional, so it's therapy or group session that doesn't count against you, that's actually paid time off to do that.
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: Because we want to normalize internally people saying, hey, poppin into therapy or ending my day at therapy or hey, therapy was kind of hard, I need to take some personal time afterwards.
• 24:39
  Speaker 4: So normalizing that.
• 24:40
  Speaker 4: It's not uncommon to see that in our out of office slack or things like that on people's calendars.
• 24:45
  Speaker 4: So there's that step, so that's a planning step and that was an intentional choice and not everybody pursues it at different times in the calendar, but people do and we love that.
• 24:55
  Speaker 4: They take action on that.
• 24:57
  Speaker 4: And then I love what Kirk you said about we have to plan for wellness and we have to plan for these things.
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: We have a challenge right now in Mental Health Awareness Month, 20 minutes every day.
• 25:09
  Speaker 4: Choose something.
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: It doesn't have to be any one thing, but choose something to set us like 20 minutes to protect and nurture your mental health.
• 25:16
  Speaker 4: So our team is going through that.
• 25:17
  Speaker 4: It was a challenge we made to our community as a broad challenge.
• 25:21
  Speaker 4: But we really said internally, if we're going to ask our large community to do this, what can we do internally to encourage each other?
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: It's a difficult time of year I don't know if it may simmer or somebody called it the other day where things are back up at the end of the year and you're just like things feel heavy right now.
• 25:39
  Speaker 4: So really it was this idea of like what can that 20 minutes do?
• 25:44
  Speaker 4: How can we explore?
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: Maybe there's something new I need to try, but it's.
• 25:48
  Speaker 4: It's really encouraging that you know the flexibility and a work schedule.
• 25:51
  Speaker 4: I think that was the key indicator in studies that you know as related to reducing burnout is having a flexible schedule.
• 25:59
  Speaker 4: So work life balance, I think for a lot of people is not really a balance.
• 26:04
  Speaker 4: It's just eliminating things that you can't get to every day and that's not really a balance.
• 26:08
  Speaker 4: So I think finding flexibility is important.
• 26:10
  Speaker 4: But then the other thing and I love Paige that you're on a sabbatical.
• 26:14
  Speaker 4: But this is something we included in our kind of structure for our team, which is, you know, every two years you're eligible for one year for one month paid sabbatical, and we want that to be kind of a pattern and a culture of rest, knowing you know.
• 26:31
  Speaker 4: So if you work extra hours on a certain day, can you take some earned we call it earned time can you take some earned time?
• 26:36
  Speaker 4: Can you schedule that and can you really add that into?
• 26:39
  Speaker 4: Because it's when you're not, when you're working super hard and you've got all that cortisol and stress in your system, you're probably not sleeping and then it starts to compound and most mental health challenges precipitate an interruption and disruption and sleep.
• 26:54
  Speaker 4: So there's, there's all these things that come, this cycle that really just reduces the quality of work, the quality that you could bring to the table how you can be regulated.
• 27:04
  Speaker 4: I think it's just you really have to view it as a whole thing and, like I said, planning for wellness.
• 27:08
  Speaker 4: Wellness adds to work.
• 27:09
  Speaker 4: I think they're all incredibly intentional things you have to do because we don't really live in a culture yet where they value to the same degree we think we value, like wellness and mental health or health.
• 27:21
  Speaker 4: So I think you have to kind of build that in and it's got to be modeled by your leaders or it doesn't really feel like a real message.
• 27:29
  Speaker 4: People will be afraid to take that time, or they'll be sure they can, unless it's modeled from the top down.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: I mean I'm so glad we're talking about rest.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: It's one of the you know trends that we lifted that we just wanted to see nonprofits lean into this year normalizing rest.
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: And so, paige, I know you've done a lot of thinking about this that it's just a great multiplier for impact whenever you really lean into that, and success in the workplace.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: What's your community showing as possible as you step back and detach from the grind?
• 27:56
  Speaker 6: Yeah, so, here's a myth.
• 28:00
  Speaker 6: I think that exists in nonprofit world.
• 28:02
  Speaker 6: I think that you know there's this idea that, like, when we give all of ourselves to our nonprofit, that's when our best shines.
• 28:11
  Speaker 6: But I actually think that the magic happens when we give our best selves to our nonprofit, and so this idea of rest does have to become part of our rhythm, right?
• 28:22
  Speaker 6: And what's interesting about our organization is so much as being talked about from kind of top down in terms of, like the leadership, but we actually exist from a bottom up approach, and so for us, what we have is I play a support role to our team and our team plays a support role to party coordinators.
• 28:42
  Speaker 6: Our party coordinators play a support role to our birthday enthusiasts, and our enthusiasts are the ones that help us host our parties, right?
• 28:49
  Speaker 6: So when you think about it like this, everyone in this organization has this great set of skills and talents that they are giving to our organization, which means that none of it is reliant on me, right?
• 29:04
  Speaker 6: Like it's so great to know that we have people that are so talented and so equipped that when I walk away, none of this is affected, and so what I love so much is that our team's philosophy, kind of our ethos is that we're better together and not one person can do all of the things.
• 29:23
  Speaker 6: And I think because that is kind of infused in our daily culture and because we rely so heavily on our volunteer base, that me being able to take time away actually is not rocking the boat all that much.
• 29:36
  Speaker 6: Right, like they got it, and they should have it because they're the experts in what they're doing, and so it has shown me the importance of allowing our people to do what they do best and putting my whole trust in their hands and allowing them to just take the ropes, because hopefully, kind of to Lindsay's point is, I am able to model rest better than I've ever been able to model it before.
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: OK, this is why we wanted to have Paige on this panel, because thank you so much for modeling.
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: Rest, thank you for modeling walking away from the thing that we know.
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: In your heart of hearts, you are so deeply passionate about the.
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: The genesis of the birthday party project started on an airplane napkin and you've poured your heart and soul into it.
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: But we I love this point about if you can build a culture of care of safety and, where it's bottom up, you can step away.
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: People can step away, and we know that others are going to pick up the load so others can rest, and that is the kind of community I think we all want to live and work in.
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: So, as we're kind of like looking about moving out of burnout, moving into these sort of vitality spaces, sonia, I want to pitch this to you because I see some in the chat that really relate to like what can we do now?
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: What can individuals and leaders do to turn the tide on prioritizing their health, like, give us some suggestions, tips.
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: You are the queen and guru of just loving people well and making it work not only for yourself individually at home, but also within the mission, so would love to hear any tips that you have on that you found in your coaching that you could share.
• 31:20
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I think it's important for us to understand the framing of the why.
• 31:26
  Speaker 5: You know it's not a trend that we're trying to get on to of like, oh, I need to incorporate wellness into my plan of some sort or, you know, have a yoga session or a fruit bar.
• 31:37
  Speaker 5: You know there's different things that you can do, but it's really about understanding that when we are in a place that is, you know, our parasympathetic nervous system of, we're actually able to use more of our brains for our mission.
• 31:54
  Speaker 5: And so when we're anxious and burnt out and exhausted, we're not actually able to use our full brain.
• 32:02
  Speaker 5: And each individual is going to have their own, you know, roadmap to mental wellness and my coaching program, the Leadership Atlas, is that we each have our own terrain.
• 32:15
  Speaker 5: You know we have our different wiring and background and I use a framework around the letters of change C-H-A-N-G-E to kind of help guide that unique experience.
• 32:29
  Speaker 5: And the first letter is C for connection, and we've already talked about that.
• 32:34
  Speaker 5: We need human to human connection that is supportive and whether that's a coach or a therapist or a community outside of your job that can remind you that it's okay to take a break.
• 32:49
  Speaker 5: You know people that are cheering you on when you take a sabbatical, versus saying, oh, I don't know, is anyone going to fund that, right?
• 32:56
  Speaker 5: Like no people and donors that say like yes, we want help.
• 33:00
  Speaker 5: And like attracting that community around you.
• 33:03
  Speaker 5: So that's C.
• 33:04
  Speaker 5: H is for holistic.
• 33:07
  Speaker 5: We've talked about that, the sleep that you know.
• 33:10
  Speaker 5: Are you nervous about your board meetings and that stomach tightness?
• 33:13
  Speaker 5: Or is it because you just haven't eaten?
• 33:15
  Speaker 5: Like, let's right.
• 33:18
  Speaker 5: Like we need to understand that we are a physical body as well.
• 33:23
  Speaker 5: We need to sleep, we need to have nourishment, we need to have movement, and so that's for holistic, of looking at ourselves as a whole person.
• 33:30
  Speaker 5: We need laughter too.
• 33:31
  Speaker 5: I love the birthday party project.
• 33:33
  Speaker 5: Like, we need it.
• 33:34
  Speaker 5: Like, just because you don't have birthday in your, in your, in your mission, like you should still be having fun and joy, because I think that's what powers nonprofits is the joy that they see when their mission is completed.
• 33:47
  Speaker 5: But infusing joy in a lot of different ways.
• 33:49
  Speaker 5: A is for awareness, so there are so many different areas that we could start working on.
• 33:58
  Speaker 5: But when we become aware of how we're feeling whether it's anxious or kind of depressed, not needing to process emotions of the pain that you've seen and the experiences that you are going through as an organization, just have to have that awareness.
• 34:15
  Speaker 5: That's where we start, we gain our power to start creating change.
• 34:20
  Speaker 5: And that goes into end of nurture, nurturing and creating habits and systems and routines.
• 34:28
  Speaker 5: You know, when you want to plant, to grow, you don't just dump water on it.
• 34:31
  Speaker 5: It's like bro, right.
• 34:33
  Speaker 5: That's kind of like our approach sometimes to self.
• 34:35
  Speaker 5: We're like I got to schedule in self care, right.
• 34:38
  Speaker 5: You're like go go, take a night off.
• 34:40
  Speaker 5: But it's really about continually to water, continuing to water, continuing to expose it to that sunlight.
• 34:47
  Speaker 5: It's nurturing the habits.
• 34:49
  Speaker 5: And then it's that G is for growth.
• 34:52
  Speaker 5: At that point then we start to have growth.
• 34:54
  Speaker 5: And then I ended up with E for evolve, because mental health and mental wellness is not a there's not a finish line.
• 35:02
  Speaker 5: We get to continue to improve and experience new ways that bring joy and clarity to how we want to operate as leaders.
• 35:12
  Speaker 5: How do we want to infuse Okay, I've learned this for myself.
• 35:16
  Speaker 5: How do I bring that to my team?
• 35:18
  Speaker 5: How do I create psychological safety for us to have candid conversations about?
• 35:22
  Speaker 5: You know what Our expectations are here, but our capacity is here.
• 35:25
  Speaker 5: That is where the burnout is happening, and so how do we have candid conversations, say we can't do this.
• 35:32
  Speaker 5: What needs to happen for us to increase our capacity or adjust our expectations so that we can be healthy and continue to do the thing?
• 35:42
  Speaker 5: Otherwise we operate with that big gap and then you don't have staff anymore because they can't take it.
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: I mean, if you were joining our last session.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: This connects to how do you sustain and scale your organization.
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: It all comes down to preserving our greatest asset the humans that are powering it.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: So, Sonya, thank you for that framework, and Kirk, I want to kick it to you in a couple minutes left here.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: Y'all have figured out a way, as mental health professionals, to just build this into your DNA how you advocate on behalf of the healers that are on staff to provide restorative rest and training and I know from talking to you this is a deep passion of yours.
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: I just want to talk to you to share with the leaders on this call.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: How do you do that in real time?
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: In real time, it is first like knowledge and the human value that sits before you First, if you're true to the mission of the organization and the community that you're seeking to save.
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: Imagine someone's hanging on to a raft in the middle of the ocean and then someone drops right next to him.
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: Hold on to the raft and say, well, I'm here to help you, but I'm too tired to swim.
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right, you're not really helping, you're not really fulfilling your mission.
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: And so for us, in real time, it's even with staff supervision.
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: The first 10 minutes should be spent on who's the human being that I'm talking about, and so I'm going to talk into today how are you showing up, and that should really drive the rest of that supervision Right.
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: And every day, I just had lunch with her staff for 15 minutes because she looks sad yesterday.
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: That's it.
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: There's no wonderful equation to human kindness, but at the end of it, if we're leading organizations, we have to really actualize that.
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: Taking that 15 minutes and I'm going to do an economic equation here, because all of us have CFOs taking that 15 minutes just saved you about 300 hours of onboarding a new staff when that person burns out and walks out the door.
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: So wellness does have a worth and a human value.
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: So when we say human value, you know taking that time out to really activate wellness and send people home.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: Stop celebrating people pushing through and being wounded on the job.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: Send people home to rest.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: Check on them when they're home resting to make sure all of these people who actually internalize and suffer from the same thing we're suffering from will go home and work more.
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: Check on them and remind them why you sent them home in the first place.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: And make it again to page point a gleeful, joyful, embraceable discussion.
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: Thank you so much for that.
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: Can we get a billboard that says companies, please send your employees home to rest every once in a while?
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: I want that normalized.
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: And you know we're winding down here and I have to just put this in this question and very quickly to Lindsay, because I think Twiloha does a great job about empowering story and you had this fantastic quote on the podcast and you said we exist as a grassroots movement because it's going to require each of us to feel comfortable talking about mental health and demanding more for our mental health.
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: And as someone who has had a nervous breakdown at the hands of non-profit grind, I feel this and I had a deep fear initially about talking about my story until I found it was a superpower and a connection magnet to others.
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: So talk very quickly about how the raising your voice is really going to help build this community of care.
• 39:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I think you gave a great example.
• 39:36
  Speaker 4: I'm sure everyone on the screen has probably worked with somebody, known someone or been that person that just says look, I'm tired.
• 39:44
  Speaker 4: We were just really honest with people and say I think I need to rest.
• 39:48
  Speaker 4: You know, kirk, you talked about the people you sent home.
• 39:50
  Speaker 4: Like, I think when we do that and we make that the safe thing to say and asking for that, I think then it becomes those cues, because then we start to internalize those like oh, that's a safe thing to ask for people who have grown up or gone through circumstances where those needs were not met or that was that was signaled to them, that that was unsafe to talk about or that was shameful.
• 40:12
  Speaker 4: That's what kind of perpetuates the cycle.
• 40:15
  Speaker 4: So when I say everyone sort of needs to have some level of storytelling whether it's you know, my experience with anxiety or postpartum depression or whatever the thing is that we're dealing with I think being comfortable talking about it gives the person next to you the permission they were waiting for, didn't know they had, and so I think that's really what it all comes down to.
• 40:35
  Speaker 4: So whether we're talking about needing rest or whether you know, you're talking about trauma, that experienced in our body.
• 40:40
  Speaker 4: So when you talked about the somatic experience, you know, I feel like the more we're open about just how we're showing up and then what we might need to bring our best self to work and not our fault, not everything.
• 40:52
  Speaker 4: Like you said, patient, we don't give all of ourselves, we give our best.
• 40:55
  Speaker 4: I think that's really where we need to kind of end up, but but it has to be in that, you know, from peer to peer and manager to manager and leadership and like an all around, it just needs to be known that it's okay to be human.
• 41:09
  Speaker 4: And so I think we kind of just boil it back down to that, because I think corporate, even the nonprofit world, you kind of put on that, oh well, we were told we have to operate this way and we don't bring these emotions into this space and that's not realistic.
• 41:21
  Speaker 4: It just causes us another cost, like it's a different cost.
• 41:24
  Speaker 4: And so I think that's kind of why I encourage people to to start sharing just whatever you're comfortable sharing, but start sharing a little bit and then you'll start to see how how much that actually affects in changes, the dynamic.
• 41:37
  Speaker 4: And so I think that's why we're talking about people.
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: So thank you for that.
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: I mean, each of you are deeply beautiful humans.
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: Thank you for the way you've shown up having this conversation today, and you have all been repeat guests on the podcast, so you know how we round this out.
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: We want your one good thing.
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: We got just a couple minutes left.
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: So when around Robin, what's a piece of advice that you would leave with our community today, and so on.
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll start with you, my friend.
• 42:01
  Speaker 5: It's always hard, hard to choose one good thing.
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: But it forces us to focus.
• 42:10
  Speaker 5: You know, as a community here that's watching, that's a part of this nonprofit community, I'd say this is our moment to lean in and change the story of how we work.
• 42:21
  Speaker 5: There is, you know, so many people leaving jobs because of their their mental wellness and their health, and I think we can say not only are we doing our mission of X, y and Z, but we also are bringing in this human element of caring for our employees and communicating that with donors.
• 42:43
  Speaker 5: Like we don't want to cause addition.
• 42:45
  Speaker 5: You know, try to solve one problem and then we cause this other problem of incredible burnout and exhaustion, and so it's time for us to lean in and lead this conversation.
• 42:57
  Speaker 5: Lead healthy teams, lead healthy organizations that are saying, yeah, we built in these different practices into who we are.
• 43:05
  Speaker 5: So I'm just honored to be a part of this panel and honored that you know.
• 43:10
  Speaker 5: I'm so glad that this conversation is elevated here among so many of us professionals that are saying we want to do good in the world and we're going to do it in a way that cares for humans.
• 43:20
  Speaker 5: Let's start this movement Kirk.
• 43:22
  Speaker 3: what about you?
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: Being normal has never changed anything, and so when you focus on the human in your organization, it kind of like sets you aside, where your kindness sometimes get misinterpreted by the macro environment as a weakness.
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: But if kindness is a weakness, I'm okay being that way, and so take the risk on refreshing and retooling individuals that are currently on your ship, because it's less costly than onboarding a brand new individual into your social economy.
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: Fantastic.
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Jeff, for documenting that quote in the chat.
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: So, Lindsay, what have you got?
• 44:08
  Speaker 4: I think this is a bit of the mantra of our current community right now.
• 44:12
  Speaker 4: It's show up for yourself and then keep showing up for yourself.
• 44:15
  Speaker 4: I think some of us get that first part.
• 44:18
  Speaker 4: You know, I'll show up today for myself because it's just, I'm so tired, I'm going to take a rest.
• 44:23
  Speaker 4: But it's that small, stubborn love for yourself.
• 44:26
  Speaker 4: It's the miracle of repetition that if we're each showing up for ourselves and the needs we have, even in small moments, then we're going to nurture and protect our mental health.
• 44:35
  Speaker 4: So it's that I believe you with that.
• 44:37
  Speaker 4: It's the miracle of repetition.
• 44:39
  Speaker 4: It's showing up for yourself and keep showing up for yourself, because ultimately, the message here is that you matter and that your story matters.
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: You do matter.
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: Paige, round us out what you got, my friend.
• 44:50
  Speaker 6: So I think the question to ask so that we can avoid burnout is what is mine to do?
• 44:57
  Speaker 6: And let the answer to that question guide you and move you forward.
• 45:04
  Speaker 6: That's it.
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: That's it.
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know about you, john, but I just feel so much hope in this conversation.
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: I see so much community.
• 45:13
  Speaker 3: I want to thank everybody for all of the comments that you put in the chat.
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: I want you to know we've read every single one of them.
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: You are seeing, true.
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: I love your comment about doing this for yourself and your staff, and I just want to end by like looking you in the eye If I had an autofocus to zoom in on my face.
• 45:29
  Speaker 3: I want to say to you you are worthy of rest, you are worthy of self care, you are worthy of working in a mission that cares for you as much as we do for the people that we are serving.
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: Let's get involved, let's wrap around this and lock arms and let's start this movement of care.
• 45:46
  Speaker 3: Please connect with these four extraordinary human beings.
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: They're on LinkedIn.
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: Go check out their websites.
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: They have so much great counsel to impart, and let's get connected and care for each other.
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: Thank you, friends.
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: Such an honor to share space with you.
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: Take care everyone.
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: We're rooting for you.
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: Thanks so much for being here.
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: We hope you're loving the Summer of Evolution series, and to learn more you can head over to wwwweareforgoodcom.
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: We'd also love for you to join the conversation, share what you're learning on social media or join us at our free community at wwwweareforgoodcommunitycom.
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: Bonus points for snapping a picture and showing us where you're listening from.
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: Can't wait for the next conversation.
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: See you soon, friends.