Latest / For Azeroth!: A World of Warcraft Podcast / #304 - For Azeroth!: “Gobble Gobble”

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#304 - For Azeroth!: “Gobble Gobble” · For Azeroth!: A World of Warcraft Podcast

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When we were like in our 20s and we were all drinking, I used to
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have this rule that if you didn't hear what I said, I
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didn't repeat it. And I would often like talk just
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below the level of everyone else at the table so that only the
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people to either side of me could hear me and it.
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And what it ended up doing was forcing all of our friend group
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to be quieter so that they could hear me.
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And then I just sort of like that there's can't remember if
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it was Ender's Game or where it was, but there was some
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principle of leadership where, oh, you know, it was Roose
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Bolton from Song of Ice and Fire.
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He always whispers in the books. And somebody said that.
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Why do you always whisper? It's it's, it's an ultimate show
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of control because people are forced to be quiet to hear you,
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as opposed to you shouting over them to try to overpower them
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for Lord Iran. For the Kieran Tour.
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For. Pandaria.
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For calendar to. The burning region.
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For Gilnaeus, but has not died for.
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The Lich King for the Sindora. For the alliance.
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For the horn for Azeroth. Hello and welcome back to
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another episode of For Azeroth. I am one of your hosts, Manny,
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AKA the true villain. Manny and I am joined by the
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Triumvirate. So being thankful all the way
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from the US, we have Lex. How are you doing this week and
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how is the World of Warcraft treating you?
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I'm doing good. I'm thankful for you guys.
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It's the, for those of you who don't know, it's the, the day
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before American Thanksgiving. So I gotta, I gotta prep, I
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gotta prep my like going around the table.
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Like actually, that's a good question.
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In Canada, do you guys do the like?
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Everyone goes around the table and says what they're thankful
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for. I don't think they even do that
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all throughout the US it it. It's certainly, I mean like,
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it's not like AII every, I, I swear every American is going to
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know what I'm talking about often.
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Because they've done it before. Done it before, just not at
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every table, especially as it as like the table became older or
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something. It's sort of like, yeah, it was
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more like, come on, kids, we're going to teach you to be
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thankful. What do you have to be thankful
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for? And then like, no, as soon as
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you got left, they're like, don't worry.
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You could be bitter. I'm like, thank, thank God.
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I'm thankful for being able to be bitter.
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That's so funny to me because for me it's been like, as my, as
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the tables age up, everyone has like leaned in even more.
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Like, what are we all thankful? Like it's one of those things
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where like you do it ironically and then it's Thanksgiving and
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nobody's started the like we're going around the table saying
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we're all thankful for it. And you're like so.
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Audio listeners Lexus moving your eyes around, glancing at
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imaginary people around the table.
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I figured you you could hear it in my silence.
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I trust, I trust the audio listeners.
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I trust the podcast listeners to to pick up what I'm putting down
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there. You go, there you go.
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I apologize, audience. Lex has more faith in you than I
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do. But the World of Warcraft has
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also been treating me well. We are on Anserek finally in
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Heroic so pushing ARTC. We are off this week because
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it's American Thanksgiving, but we are very hopeful to be coming
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back next week and getting AOTC. We got up pretty low.
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We were consistently getting into well.
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The team was consistently getting into phase three.
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I got in phase three once, but don't we don't worry about that.
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OK, all right. I'm glad, glad for that and glad
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that your rating the other member of the triumphant that
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has managed to keep a straight face and not jump in.
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It's of course recruit a friend, Sean.
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Hello Sean, How are you and how is the World of Warcraft
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treating you as well? Hi, Manny.
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Hi, Lex. I'm thankful for this podcast
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and how it teaches me all about American traditions.
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That's all. The all I've learned about
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American traditions, I've learned from Lex.
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It sounds like a lovely country full of lovely people.
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I am doing well, man. I'm doing well Manny things
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things are good. We are currently also working on
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Anserek Mythic. For us, it's our We had our
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first full night of Prague on Tuesday.
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We shifted our raid. We did not take the week off
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because of American Thanksgiving.
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We just shifted our raid day off of Thursday, so we rated
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Tuesday. Tuesday is normally our optional
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heroic night. It became our mythic Prague
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night. We shifted optional heroic to
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today, which is Wednesday if you're listening to this before
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Thanksgiving. And then we ran again Sunday,
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which is our regular day and we are absolutely pumping.
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We and our first night of Prague were already into intermission
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1. So like broke the shield, booted
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up to their, booped up to the platforms.
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You're doing really, really well.
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Our team made really quick work of Silken Court.
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And yeah, it's just been a great, great week.
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And I've been dipping into Arms Warrior a little bit and loving
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it. Question mark.
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Then we'll see the audience. Manny was making big eyes.
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Yeah, yeah. We need to hire somebody to be
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like our narrator that just narrates over the show for us.
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Somebody, just somebody just watches us record, takes notes
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of comments to make and then adds in the voiceover.
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And afterwards, if you're listening and you'd like to
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audition for the role of FAZ narrator, you can reach us at
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bit dot LY slash fast discord. Most of it would just be
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recording that I like every two seconds and would just like like
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like fully standing up and sitting back down.
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Because I can't sit. Still for more than three
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seconds. Like once again, pitch it in her
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chair. Oh.
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Yeah, I did. It's adjusting.
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If we had a narrator, I would definitely want the guy from
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Arrested Development. That's how I would do this.
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Yeah, he's a great narrator. Yeah.
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Manny's dreaming big. Indeed, indeed.
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You know, we're getting patrons and thank you everybody.
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I'm thankful for everybody who, like, supports the show.
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And yeah, maybe we'll make that some sort of stretch goal or
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something. Yeah, we could definitely afford
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that guy. They could not, in fact, afford
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him. I am.
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I am so glad that we've managed to make the 2/3 Canadian podcast
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group declare what they're thankful for every two seconds,
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because it's the day before American.
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Thanks. I'm feeling very proud of myself
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as an American, and I think that I deserve, I deserve some
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American props for that one. There we go, there we go.
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As for me, I my team is done rating, we got our AOTC.
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We're not doing Mythic this tier.
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So it's just been a couple of weeks here where I've been in
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quasi limbo. We've got our glory achievement.
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So I've been actually going through Dells this past week,
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decided that I was going to get the glory of the Delver
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achievement because of course it's got amount and we've been
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talking a lot about delves on this show recently as well.
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So I wanted to like dip my toe back into it, sort of get a more
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current experience. I accept that because of my
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gear, because it's been a while since I've been back in Dells,
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it's actually been kind of jarring.
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I did the like eights. I did Zekvir for the first time
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and it's like with that gear it it is a different thing.
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I I want to go back and try execvir on 11 as soon as I can
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because one shooting that does not make it a mage tower level
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experience that they were saying at BlizzCon and everything.
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Mind you, people could out gear mage tower back in Legion, so is
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it really that different? Sean, you've never done Zekfir
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right? Well, Manny, you didn't set this
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up, but I'm glad you asked. I also on Sunday went and I had
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never done a dove above 8 and I had never done Zekfir.
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So on Sunday I went and did a 9A10 and 11:00 and then one Judd
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Zekfir for the first time. Yeah, and the, I mean the delves
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from like the 9/10/11 delves. My my experience with delves has
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not changed from the first time I ran one on the beta as a tank.
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There's no lose state. It's merely a game of patience
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and waiting for it to be over. I did Zekfir as arms and before
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I went in a friend of mine was like, he does a lot of damage.
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You might want to go prod. I was, well, I'll give it a
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shot. His arms and he was dead before
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I even realized what was happening.
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I haven't done question mark, question mark executive here
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because I got distracted after that and I had had my fill of
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delves and my opinion hasn't changed there.
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I'm sure they're great content for people that enjoy them.
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They're they're definitely not for me.
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Yeah, Delves, if you're even a remotely tanky DPS are not like
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they're it's, it's a lot of like, if you are paying
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attention, you will probably be OK.
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And again, very class specific, very play style specific.
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I move a ton and that actually really, really benefits you in
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delves because it means the odds that I just run over a little
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healing potion is pretty high. So like, I, I do if if you are
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like, oh, but I play a tanki DPS and I'm having a rough time.
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That was not man's judgement at all, but I, yeah, I I was able
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to get Zach Fear down solo within like the day that it
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opened. OK, yeah.
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So I'm, I'm hoping that they do more with Dells in future
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seasons. All of us were like looking at
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that promise of Dells, it seems over time like all of us have
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sort of being a bit soured or let down by Delves at different
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rates, Sean, like leading the charge on that front at least.
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But yeah, I'm glad that we all. Yeah, it might have been a
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little bit of a warrior pun. I I don't want to leap to
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anything, but like, that was just something that slid in
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there anyways. I think that season 2 without
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that week 0 where delves are like everything to do.
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Maybe I won't burn out on them as quick, but coming back to it
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like I've done the first time done to delve where you have the
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mushroom trip and you end up with the pink elephants and at
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the end of it, brands like we'll never speak of it again.
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I thought that was fun and enjoyable and I was like, great,
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that's, that's the experience. But there's been a lot of talk
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in the for as we're off discord about like, well, what do we
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want from Dells? How much are they eating the
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same space that mythic pluses being where do, where do we
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think Dells will evolve? And generally like how Dells get
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balanced when it shifts between A1 plus group that goes from one
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to five different people with any kind of comp in between.
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So this, this is a lot of conversation that continued off
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of our last episode and I've been enjoying that.
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But that's not everything that's happened this week because
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yesterday we got the patch that did a number of changes to
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different classes and this was a pure balancing patch.
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A lot of classes got got touched either getting some buffs like
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we saw fire mages getting some buff towards their single
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target. They're already decent in AOA
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pretty good in AOA Frost getting a buff.
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The mix between those, the Frost fire that has been grossly
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underperforming to the point where one of the theory crafters
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was saying that Frost was virtually unplayable with
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Frostfire getting a lot of buffs.
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I'm thinking, Sean, you're happy to see what they've done with
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Protection Paladins. If you will.
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I'm indifferent. I I don't mind.
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I know a lot of people get really bent around the axle over
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the quote UN quote meta and the perceived imbalance of classes
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at the top level. It really only effects world
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first level keys though. I'm never going to be a world
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first level key player, but I don't mind if one spec is
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stronger than the rest. And then obviously you see such
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a large gap of them grow. So so many of the top keys were
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done by prop paladins and the. Trickle down sort of effect.
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Yeah, people were like, oh, I'm going to play prep out and it's
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stronger. I can be less good at the game,
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but I'll get further because I'm playing a class.
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It's better. And that makes sense and that
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works. But it by no means eliminates
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the ability for people to play the classes that they want to
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play, that they're good at and still achieve their goals,
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unless their goal is world first level keys, in which case you're
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going to be playing those metas. So Paladin got a nerf, They got
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a nerf and they didn't change any of the dungeons.
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So what this actually did is a soft cap on the score needed for
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title. Because by without nerfing the
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dungeons that it's like when they nerfed evokers and hadn't
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changed a lot of the raid fights.
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You cap those raid fights. Those raid fights are now
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unbeatable at the same level as they're being beaten at.
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So by nerfing prop out and making no changes to dungeons,
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you're hard capping the level of people who can get to in
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dungeons or soft capping I should say.
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So I wouldn't expect to see any more world first or anymore
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world 19 plus nineteens done. We had a + 19 done last week.
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I don't think we had a 20. We were waiting for one with
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these nerves. I suspect we won't see a 20 for
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quite a while if we do it all. But yeah, so I'm, I'm
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indifferent to it. I don't mind that one class is
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strong. I think it's fun for classes to
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be strong. The game is better when we feel
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stronger. I understand that some people
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want their class to not feel punished, but it's not a pie,
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you know what I mean? It's just because Paladins are
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strong as, I mean, you can't be strong too.
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And it's it's Pve content, so we're all on the same team.
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I would rather my teammates be strong, you know what I mean?
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People are like, oh, they nerved Havoc demon hires, are you
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happy? No, I haven't, haven't even
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hired my raid team. I want him to pump.
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It is I will. I will say not to be like pro
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matter. It is mildly pie because there
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are a limit to the number of like mythic plus groups going.
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But I know what you're saying. I'm mostly just being pedantic
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because I love being pedantic and I'm getting, I'm prepping
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for Thanksgiving Day arguments and I gotta, I gotta get those
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tiny little arguments and I gotta.
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Need a little? OK.
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Because yeah, like I, I, I think that there's a benefit to
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balance even in like it ideally everything's going to feel more
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or less the same so that everyone can play the same.
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But I, I think you're right that like we do kind of overemphasize
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the meta. And as long as you're playing
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with reasonable people who understand how the world works
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and aren't can be like, oh, you're doing less damage then
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the, you know, totally overbalanced class over there.
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Therefore you're benched in raid because we need to, you know,
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only have the good damage in I think it's not the world.
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I I agree with that. I'll I'll I acquiesce.
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It is a little bit like pie, but I do want to highlight the MDI
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because a lot of people point to the MDI and say oh look it's
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bad. The MDI makes us think that the
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meta is all we can run. They force class comps on us.
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But the MBI this season showcased 3 different tanks
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throughout the duration. Prop warrior, prop paladin,
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Avengers, Demon Hunter, as well as like a dozen different comps
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in different keys. And it was like one of the most
16:42
recent times that I can remember when it it like the best players
16:46
in the world minus echo, the best players in the world did a
16:51
showcase saying, hey, look, you can do this with multiple
16:54
different comps. It is not just one carbon copy,
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you know, cookie cutter pump that we're all running and even
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teams head to head. We're doing different comps and
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we saw world first like times in keys, two different groups did
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sub 10 minute necrotic wakes. It was crazy.
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I think was sub 8 minute. It was like 747 and 749 or
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something or have been 9. Anyway, very very fast I've
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also. Done sub 8 minute necrotic
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wakes. We go in for 8 minutes and we're
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like this is bull y'all really? We've had enough.
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It's time to go. I hope you didn't leave early,
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Lex. Oh, certainly not.
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I will never. I will.
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I will. I've even like, tried to figure
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out ways to keep a group growing when somebody else has left.
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I know. I know what you're getting at.
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I know you're you're setting up a little foreshadowing moment.
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A little foreshadowing, Yeah. And I do just I want to touch on
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one thing in the class balancing that amuses me.
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And for all the frosty keys out there, I'm sorry if you're
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listening to this and you're right now thinking, Sean, don't
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say what you're about to say. We know Fasdev is going to hear
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you. Frost was given a buff to their
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single target damage, which included Obliterate.
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And the note was like, we want to bring up their single target.
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And they also did, I think a nerve to breath, like we want to
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do a buff to their single target damage, but bring down their AOE
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damage a little bit. And I don't Fasdev I need you to
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know this. Obliterate is AOE damage when
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they the way that they spec in their tree right now, obliterate
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gives them AOE damage. You buffed both though.
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Frost nerf just got buffed anyway.
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Frost nerfs and frosty case. Enjoy your week or two until
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fast F reports this up to Jane. Or maybe Fast F is the frosty K
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dev. Who knows?
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Nobody knows. Yeah, maybe it's a little
18:47
secret. In that case, Fast Dev, your
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secret's safe with us. It's not pie.
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We can have overpowered classes. That's fine.
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That's. Right.
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I I'm going to point back to what you said, Lex, where it, it
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like people will enforce a meta even if it isn't something that
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is going to like really matter at their key level or whatever
19:08
level of difficulty they're playing at.
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I, I am actually surprised that you were running colossus
19:14
warrior and you're running this before these buffs that came to
19:18
colossus warrior. They increase the survivability
19:24
for both protection and arms to give them a increased
19:30
resilience. That's pretty great.
19:31
That's it's definitely good for protection warrior because mount
19:35
and Thane, you kept on saying just with that shield and
19:39
everything just felt just tanker by default.
19:43
So they're addressing that. They've made some changes to a
19:47
lot more than what we have in the notes.
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So do click through to to check through on that.
19:52
And I am going to point to the Wowhead article, not the one
19:55
that just simply quote retweeted what Blizzard put, but the one
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where they gathered together all of the different theory crafters
20:05
and guide writers. And gave a basic breakdown of
20:07
like how this effects all of the different classes.
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I think being able to like see that put and put together and
20:17
then click through to your class and go to the breakdowns at
20:20
that, I think is a very helpful article.
20:22
And I'm really glad that wow headed it took the time to put
20:26
something that is of such great benefit to people who want to
20:29
because you can you can just hit surface level.
20:31
If you want an overall look at this and how much people roughly
20:36
got affected, you can drill down as far as you need to to go like
20:41
OK, is this really affecting me as an enhancement shaman?
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I was one of the over performing classes.
20:49
Soon as I saw what the nerf was, I said, OK, that's going to
20:53
affect this one more than one other.
20:55
But I don't know exactly how bad it'll be.
20:57
This article right at the top says, OK, for the totemic,
21:02
that's not that much of A change.
21:03
You're only looking at a 1% change roughly.
21:06
For storm, well, you use a lot more of those spenders, that's
21:09
going to be near a 5% change. And with notation of like, hey,
21:14
this is what it's going to mean if you're going to bring it into
21:16
this this category. So that's also linked there.
21:20
And I think that's really solid. Do you guys think that these
21:25
balance changes so late into a patch is something that you
21:32
would like to see more of? I mean, this is like, right, as
21:36
you said it right after the MDI, we've already had the AWC, so
21:40
it's not going to really affect the competitive part of the
21:42
game. We're looking towards a new
21:46
patch and with that there's going to be additional sources
21:50
of power and some other stuff. Do you think that this patch was
21:55
like a little too late, just at the right time or could have
21:59
just waited for the patch of 11 point O .7 Lex?
22:04
Let's let's get your take first. I mean, I think if you are like
22:08
going into a new patch with good balance is going to make it
22:14
easier to balance the next patch.
22:16
So I don't necessarily know that I think there's ever a times
22:18
like balance updates become irrelevant, like unless they're
22:23
declaring the end of World of Warcraft as it is and
22:27
potentially right before an actual expansion.
22:29
Although at that point I would just be like, why are you, Why
22:32
is anybody working on anything except for the expansion?
22:36
So I, I, I can't imagine it being harmful again, unless it's
22:40
that like, why are we working on this and not the patch?
22:42
But I, I trust, I trust my little dev babies to know what
22:46
they can, to know their own limits and what they can do and
22:49
what they can't do. To be honest, I don't play at a
22:53
high enough level that any of this really is going to affect
22:57
me or the groups that I play with.
22:59
So I'm, I, I, I kind of start tuning out of adjustments pretty
23:06
early on. Again, I just like, I skim and I
23:09
see if I see my class and if I don't, I'm like, sick.
23:12
We're having a good time. So I'm I'm, I guess I don't
23:16
really have a strong opinion either way, but I can't imagine
23:19
it being a bad decision to continue to tune up until the
23:21
next patch. OK.
23:23
All right, John, what about you? I agree with Lex.
23:27
I say balance, balance early, balance often.
23:30
I guess it's as long as you're using relevant data.
23:38
So relevant difficulty data and not basing it off of a heroic
23:43
week. I think balance patches should
23:46
happen often. Every two weeks feels like a
23:48
good time for me to two weeks to collect data.
23:51
Where are my outliers? How can I dial them back in a
23:56
bit to bring them more towards the median?
23:58
Who needs to be? You know what I mean?
23:59
So bump the low ones, bring down the high ones, keep the middles
24:03
in the middle. I think that the more that the
24:06
more frequently that happens, the healthier it is for the
24:09
game, the better it is for players.
24:10
Nobody wants their DPS to be at the bottom.
24:12
Even if you're like Lex, who you know, this doesn't matter,
24:16
you're not playing at a level where it matters.
24:18
You still don't want to be, you know, nooming your heart out on
24:21
a Demon Hunter and absolutely blasting and surviving deep into
24:25
P3 on Answerac and getting like a really high parse for your for
24:31
your class and still being at the bottom of the meters.
24:33
You know what I mean? With somebody who's doing
24:35
hardly, not playing hardly as well and and just doing better
24:38
because just because their class inherently does more damage,
24:41
that doesn't feel nice. So I think just keeping it
24:46
centered for that reason alone and the the better the balancing
24:50
is going into the next batch is less headache in that batch,
24:56
especially at launch. Yeah.
24:58
So I'm for I'm definitely pro balancing.
25:00
I think every two weeks or so is probably good.
25:02
I wouldn't want to see it every week.
25:04
I feel like you need a good source of like good data.
25:10
Please stop tuning on heroic week.
25:12
Don't tune characters that are going to be playing in mythic
25:16
level content based on what damage they could do in leveling
25:18
dungeons. That's foolish.
25:21
But yeah, I'm pro balancing. I should also point out, as Sean
25:27
kind of didn't reference, but I'm going to pretend he did, I
25:31
am a little biased because Demon Hunter has more or less than
25:34
middle of the road for this entire patch.
25:36
Like early on we had a couple big like when our i-beam wasn't
25:39
working properly, but like they were at all.
25:42
Yeah, but like overwhelmingly, since they fixed the like actual
25:46
bugs, I, I don't think Demon Hunter has shown up for more
25:49
than like maybe one or two line items this whole time.
25:53
So, you know, I'm biased in that I'm not getting nerfed or
25:58
buffed. And so for me, yeah, they feel
26:00
irrelevant because they are. So it's possible that if this
26:04
was a place where Demon Hunter was a little bit more on one of
26:07
the extremes that would have stronger opinions about
26:09
balancing. But I I still think, yeah, like
26:12
try to go into the next patch as balanced as possible to make it
26:15
easier to balance once you get into a source of power.
26:19
OK. Well looking at progression,
26:22
because like Sean, you're saying, well you don't want it
26:24
happening on on heroic week, that may be less of an issue as
26:30
we're further into the expansion.
26:32
So Heroic week in Season 2 may not be as like existing.
26:41
There is no heroic week in Season 2.
26:44
Oh so yeah, it doesn't exist so but like I mean the week before
26:48
the raid comes out is usually when they do the the
26:51
adjustments. Yeah, yeah.
26:55
So when 11.1 launches, it'll be tough because it'll be 11.1 will
27:00
launch, there will be one week I think, and then the raid will
27:02
come out. There's not going to be any
27:04
content in that week really for us to do anyway, I don't
27:07
believe. But there should be no balancing
27:09
done in that week at all. If if we're not able to do
27:14
relevant, if we can't pull data from relevant content, don't
27:17
balance anything. Do not balance against normal
27:19
dungeons and heroic dungeons and even heroic raid.
27:22
It's just not not good data. OK.
27:26
And then what about when you're in the middle of progression?
27:29
So we had, of course, in this last raid, we had a fight that
27:34
you needed three Death Knights, you needed those Evokers.
27:42
You hold off balancing at that point.
27:47
No balance. Balance the classes, but balance
27:50
the rate as well. We have said on this show
27:53
multiple times that none of it lives in a bubble.
27:55
It's not, you know, I'm adjusting one class on its own,
27:58
you know, absent everything else, recognize, OK, I need to
28:01
bring these classes down and these classes up, but also be
28:04
able to recognize, oh, if I bring these classes down, this
28:08
boss does too much damage or this mechanic isn't tenable
28:11
without 3 of this class make those adjustments at this like
28:14
adjusted all like if there should be, we shouldn't have to.
28:18
I don't think we should have to wait for Hall of Fame to end for
28:22
nerfs to happen. And I don't think we should have
28:26
to wait for for for buffs as well.
28:29
Like it's those adjustments can be happening all of the time.
28:32
And I understand that will be frustrating for teams that are
28:34
like bragging a boss and then suddenly a change happens.
28:37
But if we know this is the like, if we know, hey, Blizzards going
28:40
in with the mindset of we want to eliminate those outliers, we
28:43
want to eliminate 400 polls, bosses that have specific comp
28:46
requirements that you absolutely cannot do without, then it's
28:50
fine if you're making those changes because we know that
28:53
going in. It's just when we expect, OK,
28:55
this is the way it's going to be into Hall of Fame closes because
28:58
we don't like to make changes while the Hall of Fame is open.
29:00
Like that's fully, we left the Hall of Fame for an extra week
29:03
this year, like 7 days where the teams got in that shouldn't have
29:07
gotten in. So.
29:10
I think there might be a little bit of nuance in like the middle
29:13
of the actual race to world first.
29:16
Yeah, but that's the first week. Right.
29:18
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But other than that, yeah, I'm
29:20
with you. Yeah, yeah, I'm good with that.
29:22
Let the racers do what they got to do.
29:24
And then when they hit a wall that they can't kill, like
29:26
Razzagath, who was tuned, all of her single target damage things
29:30
were tuned for people in full single target and all of her AOE
29:33
things were tuned for people in full AOE.
29:36
Whoops. You know, those kind of changes
29:40
need to happen. But yeah, I frequent changes
29:43
man, keep your hand on those dials.
29:44
I think every two weeks is fine. And if it's a boss that is like
29:49
oven acts still need something. I haven't looked lately but I
29:53
wouldn't be shocked to find out there's still 2000 guilds stuck
29:55
on oven acts right now. Now the Strat for that has
29:58
shifted because of the power amp in the dungeons.
30:02
And if you're a team who's just getting to oven axe, don't
30:04
blindly follow the strats people did in the past.
30:06
There's a new Strat that's that's been developing.
30:08
The teams have been running where they don't start in the
30:11
parasite wing and the parasite sector.
30:13
They leave that for last and they don't break any of those
30:15
eggs at all, which cuts down on the amount of knocks and grips
30:18
that you need. But if you're a mid level mythic
30:20
team going into oven axe, please go to the raid leader exchange
30:23
discord, our early discord and look for the new strats that are
30:26
forming on oven axe. Don't just beat your head
30:28
against the wall for what people did from a boss that, you know,
30:32
a power level that it didn't exist a month ago, two months
30:35
ago. Anyway, Those things, they, they
30:37
got to change that. We can't have bosses like that.
30:39
We can't have boss #5 in a raid be a 2000 or a 200 pole boss.
30:44
It's, it's that wasn't for us, but for other teams, I guess
30:47
it's, it's crazy. Sorry, that was a subtle.
30:51
That was good that that'll be this episode.
30:53
Just the tip. Yeah, we have.
30:55
That's why just a tip is getting a raid leader who is exceptional
30:57
because that's what we have. Just raid with Sean if you want
31:02
to do with the grading. Just raid on Sean's team.
31:04
No, that's we are not. We are not recruiting.
31:07
We have a. Woman, in this case, if you want
31:08
to do with the grading, just don't just drop out.
31:12
For this game, delete your account.
31:14
Let's try, let's try finding some team.
31:17
It's just they won't be able to raid with Sean.
31:21
With that said, though, Sean, you had suggested the next
31:26
segment about the 11 point O .7 timing because a lot of teams,
31:32
you know, Hall has closed and everything and so there's a lot
31:35
of questions about like how much time do we have?
31:38
So I'm going to pass this over to you.
31:41
Yeah. So everybody, for whatever
31:43
reason, I don't know if it's something in the water, if it's
31:45
the holiday season coming up, if there was like some mass event
31:50
in the last two weeks that caused everybody to just have
31:52
like a mental panic attack. But everybody seems to think,
31:56
everybody seems to think that the season is over and you're
32:00
seeing tweets, you're seeing videos.
32:01
I just saw a video yesterday from somebody who I really,
32:03
really like. I love their videos.
32:04
And it was like looking back at Season 1, like we'll be looking
32:07
back. We're smack dab in the middle of
32:09
Season 1. And I want everybody to remember
32:13
that. So Patch 11.0, point 7 is coming
32:16
out in three weeks. We are three weeks away from a
32:21
patch. And now I guess based on your
32:23
frame of reference, you might be like, Oh my God, it's coming in
32:25
three weeks, but it's 11 point 0.7.
32:27
It's not 11.1, not the end of the season.
32:31
And in that patch is coming a power boost in the form of a
32:35
ring. Your mileage may vary, but
32:39
that's going to help you achieve those goals you might not have
32:41
hit yet. So you're people that are
32:42
looking for KSM, people that are looking for KSH, people that
32:44
want to get their portals, which I guess is KSH and teams that
32:48
are looking to finish off the raid, either heroic or mythic or
32:51
even normal. Whatever your whatever your drug
32:53
is, you know that power bump is coming, but that still doesn't
32:57
mean the end of the season is nigh.
32:59
If you look on the calendar in the PTR right now, blunderstorm
33:03
dates have changed from January 14th to February 18th, and the
33:08
turbulent time waves are running until February 25th to at the
33:12
very latest or the very earliest. 11.1 isn't coming
33:16
until February 25th, and it's very likely coming a week or two
33:20
after that. Some folks are pointing at March
33:22
4th as a potential date, which would be one week shy of six
33:27
months. And that I think is the thing
33:28
that is crazy to people. I saw on Twitter somebody put
33:32
March 4th as their expected date and the reasoning why.
33:34
And Saudi was like, oh, so we're waiting 8 months now for
33:37
patches. And I was like, did I black out?
33:40
Did I? Have I been in a coma for two
33:42
months that I've missed somewhere?
33:43
We're still like March 4th would still not be six months.
33:47
It would still be one of the shortest patches in history.
33:50
So I personally wouldn't be surprised to see middle March,
33:55
but I can't, I don't imagine they're going to give us a gap
33:57
at the end with a bunch of stuff.
33:58
So I just want everybody to take a breath.
34:01
You still have lots of time to achieve your goals if you
34:03
haven't hit them yet. If you are somebody who has hit
34:05
your goals and right now you're just spinning your wheels and
34:08
you're bored, go play Warcraft. Go play Warcraft, Warcraft 2,
34:12
Warcraft 3. Then just remaster them.
34:13
Play Valegard. We can wrap the games we're
34:16
actually supposed to be wrapping on this podcast.
34:19
Yeah, play whatever. When I get paid, play.
34:20
What do you want, man? Play Valegard.
34:23
Go for it. You want, You want to.
34:25
Play that that rogue like what is it the Blado or something?
34:33
There's a game nominated for game of the year.
34:35
It's like it's AI think it's a Oh my God, I'm sorry I really
34:38
did not go into this joke with enough information.
34:41
I think it's. Blado.
34:42
Game. Is it like a knife?
34:43
Game. No, it's like a it's it's I
34:46
think I I it's either solitaire or poker.
34:49
I think it might be solitaire. I should Google this.
34:51
One of the games nominated for game of the year is a card game.
34:54
It's described like as like a rogue like I, I'm so sorry.
34:58
I'm so sorry. Is it?
34:59
Hearthstone. Lex.
35:02
It's definitely, definitely not Hearthstone.
35:04
No, it's not Hearthstone. Nevermind, nevermind.
35:08
I just want everybody getting. Fired.
35:10
To stop panicking. There's a ton of time we are.
35:14
The older I get and the more time goes on, it seems like
35:16
people are in this rush to get to the next thing.
35:19
Take a breath. We have lots of time left in the
35:21
season. I think it's because we got that
35:24
undermined previews of people's minds are already thinking on
35:28
that and already looking towards that.
35:31
Like you said, we have the release date for 11 point O .7
35:37
on the PTR with a note from the PTR getting the show notes.
35:41
They have said that the different powers of the ring
35:45
unlock over six weeks doesn't mean six weeks.
35:48
And then suddenly right into the next patch, there's probably a
35:51
week or two after that that you'll be able to like for other
35:55
people to catch up or whatever to then before they unlock the
36:00
next thing coming out. So let's consider like at
36:04
minimum 7 weeks. And I think it's actually better
36:08
to say 8, but that's two months and we've got three weeks plus
36:12
two months, right? That puts it right where you're
36:15
talking about end of February, middle of March, we're looking
36:20
at there. So I, I agree with you.
36:24
I, there's like clear points that you can look at and then
36:27
create a timetable there. So I, I don't believe people
36:33
should be freak freaking out about this.
36:35
Enjoy your holidays, take some time, relax, go look up some
36:40
game of the year stuff that you're like, huh, Wonder what
36:43
that game is about or what it's even named.
36:45
Enjoy yourselves guys. Yeah, Google, if you're
36:48
listening, Google rogue like card games and just drop all of
36:53
the ones you find in the Discord so we can help Lex to figure out
36:56
what game it is. She was supposed to bring your
36:58
family Thanksgiving dinner. It's called Bilatro.
37:01
It's a poker inspired rogue like deck builder.
37:04
OK, you're. Not chronically online enough,
37:08
like if your tick tock for you page has not been telling you
37:10
about this game. For pages, I can't tell you the
37:13
last time I even looked at TikTok.
37:15
I I look I look at TikTok but less these days I feel like.
37:19
I'm not feeling very supported. Kind of contracted a bit.
37:23
But I do, I do want to offer something for everyone.
37:25
So if you're somebody whose comfort zone is that level of
37:28
panic, if you're like, I really only feel good with a little
37:32
anxiety, here's something you can be anxious about.
37:35
The Plunder Storm J dates are January 14th to February 18th.
37:39
You in the previous plunder storm you had three months to
37:42
get all the rewards. In this plunder storm you have
37:45
won. Now you may be anxious.
37:50
I think just to slightly curb that anxiety that you're forcing
37:55
on the people. I'm offering.
37:56
I'm not forcing, I'm offering. Remember that the way that this
38:01
Plunder Storm works is that instead of a battle pass track
38:05
where you, like, earn things in a particular order, you're
38:08
getting currency. You can buy what you want in any
38:10
order. So even if for some reason you
38:15
take a little bit longer than you would have liked and don't
38:19
get as much as you would have liked, you can still prioritize
38:23
the stuff that you want and get it.
38:25
And clearly they've shown that it can come back and come back
38:28
quite quickly. So let's let's calm that FOMO
38:32
here and you do not need Sean to get under your skin.
38:35
And if there's nothing to complain about in the Plunder
38:38
Storm lobbies, what are you gonna do in the Plunder Storm
38:40
lobbies? That's right, listen to Sean
38:43
create the next FOMO rage. Yeah, I wasn't creating.
38:47
I was merely off. We have listeners that like to
38:50
be anxious, Manny. Some people like a little bit of
38:52
edge. I just wanted to help.
38:56
I need the listeners who are like man, I need more anxiety in
38:58
my life to write in because I don't think you exist.
39:01
But sure you have one week or ignore your emails.
39:07
You better get that in fast. John, I'm going to go back to
39:13
you for the next segment. Before we jump into our last
39:17
story, could you take the time to thank our patrons?
39:21
Yeah, why don't you? Why don't you bring it in here?
39:22
A little closer, amid the shattered lands of the Barons,
39:26
Dallas and Orc shaman knelt beneath the searing sun, their
39:30
hands pressed to the cracked earth as they whispered ancient
39:32
prayers to the elements. With each word, the ground
39:36
trembled, and faint green shoots of life began to push through
39:39
the scorched soil, a small but defiant promise of renewal.
39:44
Though the world was fractured and bleeding, Dallas fought
39:47
tirelessly, wielding the power of the elements not to destroy
39:51
but to heal, daring the hope that Azeroth could rise stronger
39:55
from the ashes. Dallas, thank you so much for
39:58
being the latest patron of For Azeroth.
40:00
For Azeroth. We'll always be free, but if you
40:03
enjoy the content we produce. Please consider pledging to our
40:06
Patreon at patreon.com/faz or FAZ if you live in the UK in.
40:13
Canada. This is a quick side note.
40:16
If your name is Austin, it would be real funny if you pledge next
40:19
week. That would be, yeah.
40:20
Throwing that one. Out there, yeah, I it took
40:24
everything I had not to make a reference the Dallas Cowboys and
40:28
how they pretend to be a football team anyway.
40:30
But. The thing is, The thing is, I
40:33
actually actually can't laugh at that because I'm a giant girly
40:36
so. No, I hope.
40:40
Have you? So you like to Have you ever
40:41
noticed that I look exactly like Brian Dabel, your head coach?
40:44
I I look at a picture of Brian Dabel and then ask yourself, is
40:50
that Sean? I'm serious.
40:54
If it if it is, can I just say $4 million to the dumbest man
41:00
alive? It was more than 4 million.
41:02
Anyway, it was too much. It was too much.
41:06
It's OK, though. He's he's going back to, you
41:09
know, working at Costco next year and we're happy for him.
41:12
That's what he deserves. Sports.
41:15
Ball folks. Anyways, the last story is again
41:22
about Mythic Plus. We have had Kyvax come out and
41:28
issue some suspensions against players.
41:31
Lex, could you read this little blurb from Kyvax here for sure?
41:35
They say today we issued gameplay suspensions to players
41:38
who intentionally left Mythic Plus groups a great many times
41:41
in the war within Season 1. The sort of behavior we action
41:44
was either without regard for the experience of their fellow
41:47
players, or in some cases even deliberately intending to harm
41:51
others experiences. This is detrimental to the
41:53
community of players who strive to do their part in Group
41:56
content the vast majority of the time.
41:58
We understand that occasionally abandoned runs will happen.
42:01
Players can experience unexpected real life
42:03
emergencies, Internet outages, or the group collectively
42:06
deciding to quit the run. Today, we suspended players who
42:09
repeatedly and recklessly disrupted Mythic Plus groups.
42:12
We will continue to keep an eye on groups in the future and
42:14
repeat offenders are subject to escalating penalties.
42:17
Thank you. So when I first heard about
42:23
this, I thought this was just like, you know, mythic plus
42:28
normal toxicity of like, oh, you guys suck, I'm leaving.
42:33
And those players getting like in hit with the the ban hammer,
42:39
the suspension and hammer. But no, this is a different
42:42
level of cruel. It seems people who
42:45
intentionally join in groups wait till they start the key and
42:48
are like oh this is how I get my rocks off.
42:51
Really. Have you guys encountered this
42:55
before? I have not encountered it.
42:59
I'm going to pause briefly so if Manny wants to edit the section
43:02
out, we can add the section out. I know after the US election, I
43:06
was seeing people saying that they were seeing groups with
43:09
like Trump 2024 or something on their like in in the description
43:16
and would join them and break the keys.
43:18
So I've heard that it is the thing that happens.
43:21
OK. I do not understand.
43:25
Like, I mean, there's already the guys in trade chat that are
43:29
saying stuff that they know is going to be inflammatory.
43:37
Who still uses trade chat? People still use trade chat,
43:40
People still use local defense. People still use people still
43:46
use local defense. Oh my goodness.
43:49
People will use the services as well.
43:53
Generally, like it doesn't happen consistently like it used
43:57
to. You know back in the day that
43:58
people would go off the little tangents, but every so often
44:01
somebody will be bored online and decide that trade chat will
44:04
be their their victim. I did not think that it would
44:08
get into our like that somebody would post up in a description
44:17
some political leaning rant or you know, it's a very few
44:25
characters. So I can't call a rant some
44:27
political leaning message anyway, I don't even care if it
44:33
if it's left-leaning, right leaning, big business friendly
44:39
chaos, whatever. Why are you putting that in your
44:43
group descriptions like that? That to me seems.
44:48
Oh yeah, I thought it was. I don't want to say they're
44:50
asking for it, but they're they're enticing a reaction
44:53
there. The the point is to bring people
44:56
right, like and, and like to be fair, they succeeded, right?
44:58
And then somebody coming in and breaking the key is the same
45:02
thing. Like everyone in that
45:04
interaction is making an effort to make other people unhappy.
45:09
And you can make arguments on any side about like, what's
45:13
reasonable, What's like, you know, I, I, I, but that I think
45:19
we can all agree on. Like the point of all of this is
45:21
to upset people. Yeah, and that's that's the
45:25
thing. This was, this isn't the normal
45:27
level of Wow Mythic Plus. It's toxic.
45:30
This is a new level. Yeah.
45:34
Sean, you have you seen any of this?
45:36
I mean, I've seen people leave keys after a couple of wipes or
45:40
one wipe even. I've been in a group where it
45:45
was listed as one key level. When the key went in, it was a
45:48
lower key level than they had listed and people left.
45:54
And I mean, I have left keys that after three or four wipes,
45:58
I was like, listen, we just are not able to kill this boss for
46:00
whatever reason. I don't get hung up on timing or
46:03
not timing a key. If I'm in a key is usually fill
46:06
my fault. Never like anytime I'm like I'm
46:11
a big fan of the the was it the sunk cost fallacy?
46:14
So anytime I've spent a Nike, my brain says I need to finish this
46:17
key usually. So yeah, I I've seen like a but
46:24
I've not seen anything that I would call malicious.
46:26
I don't even really consider people leaving a key malicious.
46:29
Like if you're in a dungeon and I understand people's everybody
46:33
has different goals when they go into those dungeons.
46:35
But if for whatever reason something hat like if the start
46:38
of the key, actually I do have one example.
46:41
We were going to do a city of threads 10.
46:43
I was with a tank for my Guild. He had not run city of threads
46:45
above like A4 or A5 this season, if at all, he might not have run
46:49
it at all. Anyway, he was not familiar with
46:50
the dungeon, wasn't comfortable. We were invoiced together.
46:52
I said don't worry, I'll walk you through as we go, it'll be
46:54
fine. Before the key even started, I
46:56
said to the group, the tank is new.
46:58
He's not a new tank that's new to this dungeon.
47:00
Bring his tank. We're invoiced.
47:01
I'm going to talk him through. There's not gonna be any issues.
47:04
Is there anybody who has concerns that might want to
47:07
leave in case something happened and go sideways and we don't
47:09
time it. You can leave now.
47:10
Not a big deal. And two of the three people
47:14
responded with no worries, we're just here to time it.
47:17
We're not going to leave if somebody's learning.
47:19
No big deal. You told us, you know, we
47:20
already know. We're getting into the 5th
47:22
pissed person said nothing to me.
47:24
That means they agree, we start the key, we get to the we had
47:29
one white one death on the 1st pole, but it wasn't the tanks
47:32
fault. And then we got to the first
47:33
boss and the person who hadn't said anything dies to the
47:36
frontal. It was city city's resident.
47:38
And then they left the key and the tank who was like, this is
47:44
because you brought me, I'm like, this has nothing to do
47:46
with you. This I don't understand.
47:48
The other two people were like, why would why would they do
47:51
that? And the only thing I think is
47:53
they died of embarrassment and left because they I don't know.
47:57
But that even now even that happening, I'm not like that
48:00
person should catch a band. I don't feel like they mean keys
48:04
go up and keys go down, then they move in both directions.
48:08
And like we said earlier, there's still three months left
48:10
on the season. We're going to get that 10
48:12
another time. It's not a big deal.
48:16
We just need to try to chill a little bit of right.
48:18
We have. Everybody has this, like, sense
48:19
of impending doom. Like if I don't hit this score,
48:22
I don't make this goal and I'll tie this key right now it's all
48:25
over. And if I don't time it, it's
48:27
your fault and your fault and your fault and I'm angry at you.
48:31
Yeah, so. Narrator shows that he pointed
48:34
at Manny all three times. Yeah, so I don't know, I, I
48:40
think bad actors should catch bands, but I think what my
48:44
tolerance of what I would consider a bad actor is way, way
48:48
higher than what some people's might be.
48:50
I know there are some people who are like, as soon as somebody
48:53
leaves the key at all, they're the devil.
48:55
And that's not how I feel. No, I think they, yeah.
49:00
Sorry, I apologize. No, I don't have anything else
49:02
to add there. I was just going to talk.
49:04
I I think that they're definitely not hitting you for
49:09
like leaving a key. It's a repeated pattern for
49:12
sure. And I'm really glad that they
49:14
don't say like even a ballpark of it because I think just the
49:18
specter that you can, yeah, you catch it after doing it too
49:22
often is going to make people reconsider how quickly they get
49:25
out of keys. It might help the toxicity a bit
49:28
for the unrelated toxicity that is there.
49:31
But like generally, you know, we we talked, we mentioned how
49:35
people are leaving one social site, going to other social
49:38
sites, really trying to like cultivate a better community.
49:44
We don't need this in Wow, guys. We do not need this in Wow
49:48
before this even happened like literally last episode, Lex was
49:53
saying and it goes without saying that mythic plus has a
49:56
toxic community. This.
49:58
We did not need this new level guys, you don't need to outdo
50:01
yourself. Let it stay out of 10 guys.
50:04
We don't need to get that 1215. Whatever level of toxicity you
50:07
guys want to get your title for forget it.
50:10
Just let it go and let's focus on the actual game and enjoy.
50:14
Enjoy that because I'd like to get back in there.
50:17
I was saying a while back on a couple episodes, yeah, I want to
50:21
get back in there. I want to get my keystone hero.
50:23
I'd love to get portals or whatever.
50:26
I'm not going to push for title. That's not anywhere on my on my
50:29
books. Because honestly, if I was
50:31
pushing for title, I'd have an organized team pushing for that.
50:35
But I've plugged through Mythic Plus for the last expansion and
50:42
a half and I have not wanted to find a static team as bad as I
50:50
have wanted to find a static team this season.
50:53
And this news does not give me any confidence that I want to
50:58
dive back into the pug world. Even if I end up running with
51:04
people and doing simply 5 pluses for the for the first season
51:08
just to like get the ground underneath us that that seems
51:12
better than dealing with a point where for the first time ever
51:17
Blizzard has banned levers. I don't think we've seen this in
51:24
mythic plus to my knowledge. I don't think I've seen this in
51:30
Pve to my knowledge. I'd have to think way back to to
51:35
find like solo cues, people leaving causing issues and I'm
51:40
not sure they caused they caught bands.
51:42
I think they just had a prolonged lever debuff, like off
51:49
the top of your heads, you know? You're right, you know, that's
51:51
exactly what it was, I think, yeah.
51:54
So I will say this is only semi related.
51:57
I do think that one of the issues is that Mythic Plus
52:01
punishes some like like removing someone from a group or leaving
52:05
a group to like the entire group to a really high level, which
52:10
has also meant that I've been in quite a few mythic plus pugs
52:13
where somebody's being toxic or mean or shitty.
52:16
And like my group of friends kind of invoice like if it were
52:20
like, do we want to just like kind of calm them down so we can
52:24
push through? Because it's not doesn't feel
52:26
worth breaking the key at this point.
52:28
So we're just going to tolerate abuse for a while.
52:31
And I do think like you're. Being held hostage, right?
52:33
It's like I I have been to where you're just like you're with a
52:37
friend and voice and somebody is just like unloading all of this
52:40
vitriol and it's like, look, dude, and your friends like
52:43
queuing up a massive rant, you know, manifesto.
52:46
And it's like just get through the key.
52:49
Let's just finish this key, put this person on ignore.
52:51
We never just see them again. But you're like stuck.
52:53
It's like being stuck in a hot like you're hostage.
52:55
You're held hostage with this. I don't I don't use term abuser.
52:58
I feel like that's making light of that term, but it's like this
53:00
aggressive person is. Yeah, sorry, yeah, I didn't mean
53:03
to cut you half flex, but I'm big time with you on that.
53:05
What is the solution? What do I do there?
53:07
Yeah, yeah, I, I, I wish, even if it was just something like if
53:11
somebody leaves the key, the key doesn't brick, right.
53:13
And so you can just start it over.
53:15
Because I, I was, while you guys were talking, I was sitting here
53:17
like thinking through different options.
53:18
I think that's probably the best one.
53:20
Even if it's something like in A and like people, people would
53:22
abuse that, right? If like they're about to not
53:24
time the key, they would have someone quit so that the brick
53:26
key doesn't brick. But whatever.
53:28
Like, I don't know, I'm not a deaf, I don't know anything, but
53:31
I do feel like it makes it particularly rough when people
53:36
leave, which a makes it so that it feels like it feels really,
53:40
really bad when somebody leaves your key.
53:44
It means that like, if you have a group that otherwise would be
53:46
willing to kind of like, hey, Alec, whatever, it's a rough
53:48
time, we're going to reorganize. They can't do that.
53:53
And it also, it, you know, it, it makes it so that leaving can
53:56
be really, really painful, which like occasionally, not that I'd
53:59
ever do this, but occasionally maybe if your group is being
54:02
really rude and they're pissing you off a lot, you'd leave the
54:05
key. And then you feel like, oh, ha
54:06
ha, I got them, got those bastards.
54:09
They don't. Deserve to time this key.
54:11
I. Mean like if you see similar
54:13
behavior in rage, there's always that guy who will be like, and I
54:17
pull the boss and and leave and now you guys get to wipe.
54:20
Ha ha, I got them right for one way or another.
54:22
The the similar behavior, it's not as punishing.
54:24
Obviously I'm not comparing how much punishment you get because
54:27
it's not like you suddenly go like and now you can't get elute
54:29
from that boss, sorry suckers. But like there's that same
54:33
mentality that that's in different things.
54:36
I want to touch on Alexa's suggestion of keys don't deplete
54:39
if somebody leaves. And as soon as you said that I
54:44
was filled with such hope and joy.
54:47
We weird like we're pushing our my team is pushing lead time to
54:51
1st 13 last week, but we're hitting this point where it's
54:55
like we want to try new polls, we want to try new routes, but
54:59
it punishes us because if we do it and doesn't work right away
55:02
like we had we got lucky. We had an A chronic week 13.
55:04
We tried a new opening pole with a lot more mobs.
55:08
We wiped, but then we did it on a 12 and we got further in.
55:11
We didn't time the key, but we got further in further through
55:14
and then we were lucky. We got another 13 afterwards and
55:16
we were able to put into practice the things we had
55:18
learned in the 13 and the 12 we done prior to that.
55:22
If we had just the option that somebody leaves the key doesn't
55:24
deplete. You can try that, you can
55:26
practice that and then it can make it easier for teams to be
55:30
more experimental to take chances on non meta groups if
55:33
you're somebody putting a pug together.
55:36
But I as much hope as that filled me with my brain
55:40
instantly saw a future where as soon as the key is not timable
55:45
the quote UN quote worst player in that group would be removed
55:49
and flamed and nobody would ever complete keys that weren't timed
55:52
again. And that as as as much as it
55:56
would make my life happier because I know my friend group
55:59
would just play normally but be able to practice.
56:01
I I think that would end up causing a worse overall
56:05
experience for a lot of people. But God damn that I won an
56:09
election. You said it.
56:11
So I'm really glad that Lexi and Meteor like Yep, and here's the
56:15
abuse for it because people will abuse it in good times where
56:21
it's like, here's a friend group and Sean kick me so you can keep
56:24
the key. Oh, thanks for taking the the
56:26
bullet, Manny. But then unearned retaining of
56:30
the key. There's also the like abusive
56:33
way where it's like, what if we four people vote kick the person
56:38
because they're quote UN quote holding the person hostage so
56:41
their key doesn't get get bricked.
56:43
And like, yeah, we get to keep our key.
56:44
But then it's like, and we're about to time and you know what,
56:48
you've been trashed the entire way.
56:50
You don't deserve loot kick. You finish the key, get our loot
56:55
or, oh, we didn't finish the key, but at least we get to keep
57:00
our key level as a gamble to screw over somebody.
57:04
Like there's so many ways that you can create an abuse from
57:08
from just different rule sets. So it's it's it's hard.
57:11
I'm going to make it. Good.
57:13
I'm gonna make an argument that's never gonna happen, but I
57:16
kind of want to bounce this idea off of you guys because I'm sure
57:19
there's a reason it's stupid. What if Wait, wait, I'm gonna,
57:22
I'm gonna pause because I was about to say I would love to
57:25
have an episode where we contemplate what we would love
57:29
to have changed in a mythic plus system.
57:32
OK, Could you scribble that down, Lex?
57:35
And let's let's let's actually figure out what we could do.
57:39
I'd love to do that at another does.
57:41
This mean I don't get to hear Alexa's suggestion right now I
57:43
have. You will, but it will be after
57:46
the show ends. So guys, if you want to hear
57:48
Alexa's solution, make sure you tune into that episode.
57:52
We will have a bunch of bonus episodes coming out over the
57:56
course of December. But until next time, guys, may
57:59
all your hits be kids.