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Memorial Day: Best of · Karl and Crew

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  S1: Broadcasting from Chicago, across North America and beyond. It's Carl
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  S1: and crew.
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  S2: Come as you are an experienced guide, overcome what seems
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  S2: impossible and live as you never imagined.
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  S1: Start your morning with a laugh.
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  S2: Cold spaghetti is great. Okay.
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  S3: Okay, I disagree. I guess not. No, I guess certainly
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  S3: it is not. No. Okay, well, I'm going back.
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  S2: To my bachelor days. I guess I thought cold spaghetti
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  S2: was universally loved.
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  S4: I've never been known for, like, high levels of coordination.
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  S4: That's just. It feels like.
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  S2: I've never been known for high levels of coordination.
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  S1: Delivering the truth daily.
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  S4: If it were possible to have every worldly gain available
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  S4: and you're forfeiting your soul. There's no amount of gain
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  S4: that would make it worth it.
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  S5: Our own way never ever works. Because it's apart from
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  S5: the life source, which is God.
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  S6: For me, growing up, love was always conditional and can
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  S6: be taken from you. Christ's love can't. And he went
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  S6: to the cross with my mind and my heart that night.
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  S1: Now from the call of Hope Studios, this is Carl
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  S1: and Crew.
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  S2: So I know Ali, you've got prayer figured out. When
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  S2: you talk to God, you get those answers and you
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  S2: have all, all those really. We don't need an expert
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  S2: for the topic of prayer because, Ali, you've got it.
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  S2: So go ahead and just share with us in about 30s.
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  S3: Wow.
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  S2: Um, why you pray what you pray, how you pray,
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  S2: that's always going to have deliverables in your lap. Go ahead. Ali.
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  S4: And this is where we go to 30s of radio silence.
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  S4: Oh boy, do I wish that that were the case.
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  S2: Yeah. A lot of us have questions and it revolves
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  S2: around prayer and most questions around prayer. Deal with why
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  S2: in the world doesn't God answer my prayers? Coming up
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  S2: here in just a moment, we are going to have
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  S2: Doctor Erwin Lutzer with us here.
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  S4: Guys I'm excited. I'm surprised you didn't say the man,
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  S4: the myth, the legend.
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  S2: The man, the myth, the legend. You're right. I should
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  S2: have done that. Now, Doctor Erwin Lutzer is going to
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  S2: be with us, so buckle up. It's Carl and crew
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  S2: asked the experts. Doctor Lutzer straight ahead.
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  S1: You've got questions. They've got answers. It's ask the Experts
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  S1: week with Carl and crew.
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  S2: A wise man told me one time. Seems like knowing
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  S2: the will of God. And we can find that first
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  S2: Thessalonians four three be sanctified in Christ Jesus. Knowing the
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  S2: will of God is one thing, knowing the way of God. Whew.
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  S2: That's another thing when it comes to prayer. Some of
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  S2: the ways of God we don't understand. Why doesn't God
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  S2: answer my prayers? Doctor Lutzer is with us right now.
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  S2: Good to have you with us, pastor. Uh, this is
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  S2: an Important work that you've done. And let's get into
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  S2: it a little bit here. At first blush, why doesn't
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  S2: God answer our prayers?
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  S7: Well, you know, there are many different ways that I
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  S7: could answer that except to say this, that God hears
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  S7: our prayers even when sometimes they are not answered. And
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  S7: so to ask the question the way you did, sometimes
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  S7: it's because we regard iniquity in our heart. For example,
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  S7: David said that when I regard iniquity in my heart,
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  S7: the Lord doesn't hear me. But also it may not
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  S7: be God's will at all. And you know, one of
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  S7: the things that I'd like to point out, and I
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  S7: know that we may reference a book I've written entitled God,
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  S7: why doesn't God answer my prayers? One of the points
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  S7: I like to make is that we sometimes claim promises
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  S7: which aren't ours. This particularly happens in the A name
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  S7: it claim it area. And so I remember a woman
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  S7: coming to me and say, God has abandoned me, you know,
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  S7: because she was listening to a television preacher who said
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  S7: that if you aren't healed, it's your lack of faith.
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  S7: And so her husband wasn't healed. And so she believed
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  S7: it was all her fault. So actually, Carl and I
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  S7: know that we're going to be getting into this as
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  S7: we discuss these things, but it's a very complex issue.
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  S7: And one of the points I want to make really
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  S7: out of the gate is when Jesus was in the
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  S7: Garden of Gethsemane. According to Mark chapter 14, he prayed
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  S7: three times that God would remove the cup from him.
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  S7: Aren't you glad God did not answer that prayer?
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  S4: Doctor Erwin Lutzer that's probably a rhetorical right. Doctor Erwin Lutzer,
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  S4: our guest right now, pastor emeritus of Moody Church. Doctor Lutzer,
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  S4: one of the most unhelpful quotes that's repeated so often
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  S4: is this one. You know, everything happens for a reason.
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  S4: That's offered up as a way, I think, of making
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  S4: sense of things that don't make sense. And I guess
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  S4: it's true to a certain extent. But when we think
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  S4: about God's purposes, God's hidden purposes, everything happens for a
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  S4: reason seems to fall kind of short. Speak to that.
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  S7: Well, you know, it is true that everything does happen
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  S7: for a reason. But Ali, our challenge is we don't
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  S7: know what that reason is, right? And what we have
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  S7: to do is there are times when we just have
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  S7: to trust God. You know, I'm thinking, for example, of
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  S7: Martin Luther, he said, what do you do when you
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  S7: look around and see no reason that God is on
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  S7: your side? You continue to trust his bare word. But
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  S7: I want to say this to all those who are listening,
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  S7: and I hinted at it already in the book of revelation.
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  S7: The Bible says that our prayers are offered unto God
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  S7: as a sweet incense to him. So to go back
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  S7: to Jesus in the garden, even though God didn't answer
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  S7: that prayer. The good news is that he, God heard
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  S7: Jesus prayer and that's a very positive word in Hebrews
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  S7: chapter five. Maybe we're getting off on it a little bit,
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  S7: but one of the things we have to do is,
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  S7: is say this. The reason for prayer is not just
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  S7: that we come before God and give him a list
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  S7: and say, well, this is what I'd like you to
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  S7: do for me today. The reason for prayer is that
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  S7: we might get beyond that to God Himself. And what
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  S7: we have to do is to recognize that in the end,
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  S7: we need God more than we probably need our answers.
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  S7: You know the prodigal son, he came home because he
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  S7: was hungry, but I suspect he needed his father more
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  S7: than he did his dinner. And so the the needs
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  S7: of life. And everybody's fighting something. Life is hard everywhere.
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  S7: Those needs keep driving us. Godward. And so we come
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  S7: with our need. But in the end, we're occupied with
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  S7: God worshiping him and saying, thy will be done. So
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  S7: that's the way in which we have to handle this.
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  S7: You know, the reason I talk about this, and I
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  S7: look forward to further questions is this so many people
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  S7: deconstruct from the Christian life. They leave it behind because
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  S7: they prayed for healing. It didn't happen. They prayed for
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  S7: deliverance during a time, maybe even of abuse or persecution.
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  S7: And then they say, God's not worth anything to me.
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  S7: I'm out of here. So what we have to do
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  S7: is to try to help these people, sympathize with them,
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  S7: but also draw them back to the father.
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  S2: Love it. Doctor Erwin Lutzer is our guest right now.
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  S2: And ask the experts. You know, I've been looking at
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  S2: George Mueller's prayers outlined in James five and Spurgeon and Swindoll.
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  S2: Many have said and gone to that passage as a
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  S2: template for prayer. It's a beautiful one. It has to
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  S2: do with healing of people that are troubled, sometimes sin
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  S2: in their life. But the the question this leads me
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  S2: to is a lot of people say, and it's true,
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  S2: prayer is taking hold of the willingness of God. That's
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  S2: what Mueller said. I love that quote. But pastor, my
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  S2: question for you is this simple does prayer move God
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  S2: or does it move us closer to God? Which one
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  S2: is more dominant?
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  S7: Well, probably both, but I want to say this it
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  S7: should draw us toward God and closer to God. So,
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  S7: you know, you've you've really entered into the realm of
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  S7: mystery here because on the one hand, nothing surprises God.
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  S7: God sees around corners. I was counseling somebody who wanted
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  S7: a certain position, and he didn't get it and was
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  S7: so disappointed. And I said, you have no idea what
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  S7: God has kept you from by closing that door. God
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  S7: can see around corners, but we can't. So at the
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  S7: end of the day, we do trust him. But more specifically,
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  S7: in answer to your question, there's a sense in which, yes,
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  S7: prayer changes things that moves the hand of God. But
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  S7: at the same time, God sees everything simultaneously. Everything is
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  S7: in his hands. So from an ultimate perspective, all that
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  S7: we have to keep coming back to is that God
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  S7: ultimately is in control. but and I hope I I'm
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  S7: going to take a moment here, Carl.
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  S2: Yeah.
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  S7: Many people say, well, God already knows what we need.
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  S7: And and he's got everything buttoned down. Why should I pray?
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  S7: Isn't this interesting? In Matthew chapter six, Jesus said, when
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  S7: you pray, don't pray like the heathen. You know they
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  S7: repeat themselves and think that they shall be heard because
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  S7: of their much speaking. Your father knows already what your
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  S7: needs are. Does Jesus say, okay, so don't pray no.
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  S7: In this manner. Therefore pray Our Father who art in heaven.
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  S7: So what Jesus is saying, just because God has everything
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  S7: in control, the first thing we should do when we
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  S7: come before God is to give him praise. Our father
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  S7: who is in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Why? Because
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  S7: prayer is drawing our hearts toward the father And in
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  S7: the midst of that, we ask him to meet our needs.
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  S7: We commit things to him, and maybe I'll get a
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  S7: chance to talk about what that means in a few moments.
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  S7: But what we're doing is ultimately we're submitting to him
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  S7: and coming to him and saying, father, I need you.
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  S7: And he may not answer the prayer like he did
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  S7: the apostle Paul, who prayed three times that the thorn
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  S7: might go. But God says, I don't just leave you alone.
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  S7: I'm going to give you a substitute. I'm going to
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  S7: give you grace. And Paul says, okay, if that's the case,
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  S7: I'll glory in my infirmities so that the power of
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  S7: Christ remains in me. So there's the apostle Paul, who
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  S7: didn't get an answer to the prayer that he wanted,
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  S7: but he did get an answer.
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  S1: Get your info from a source you can trust. It's
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  S1: Ask the Experts Week with Carol and crew.
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  S4: Ask the expert this morning taking questions on prayer for
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  S4: Doctor Erwin Lutzer Misty calling in this morning from Dayton, Tennessee.
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  S4: Go ahead with your question for doctors. Lutzer.
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  S8: Good morning. My question is, and it's ironic that you
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  S8: mentioned it before the break about how to pray. Um,
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  S8: is it I mean, when I pray, I just pray
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  S8: like I'm just talking to my best friend. I mean,
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  S8: is that wrong? Is there a proper way to pray?
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  S2: That's a great question. What do you say, pastor?
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  S7: You know, prayer is talking to your great friend, but
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  S7: there's a sense in which what we need to do
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  S7: is to recognize who this friend is. I'm a little
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  S7: bit troubled by those who just jump into the presence
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  S7: of God. Hey, sometimes this happens before a church service.
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  S7: Let's have a quick word of prayer. Lord bless this, etc..
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  S7: There's no problem with that except this. We should take
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  S7: a few seconds and realize who is it that we're
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  S7: talking to? I mean, we're coming into the presence of
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  S7: the Almighty. This is not a small matter. And sometimes
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  S7: we trivialize prayer that way. On the other hand, to
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  S7: this dear sister who called. I always love to refer
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  S7: to Peter. He's drowning because he's walking toward Jesus. He
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  S7: no longer is looking at Jesus. He's looking at the
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  S7: wind and he doesn't have time for a formal introduction.
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  S7: He just simply shouts, Lord, save me! Now when you're
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  S7: going under in a lake, you don't have time to
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  S7: think about a lot of things and be very formal.
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  S7: You're just desperate. So I don't think that we should
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  S7: say there's just one way to pray, except that I
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  S7: like to begin my day. And that happened again this
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  S7: morning where I. I give God praise, sit back in
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  S7: my chair, remind myself of who God is and who
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  S7: it is that I'm talking to? So that's the way
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  S7: to pray. But after that, yes, read the Psalms. David
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  S7: just shared his heart and sometimes he unloaded at God,
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  S7: you know, where are you? Um, you know, I trust you.
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  S7: Are you always going to turn against me? God can
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  S7: handle our honesty. He really can. So we should come reverently,
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  S7: but come honestly because he knows the truth anyway. And
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  S7: as a result of that, I think it will enhance
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  S7: our fellowship with the Almighty.
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  S2: Uh, pastor, with regard to praying the will of God,
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  S2: someone asked, how do we know to pray the will
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  S2: of God? This must be directly linked to the Word
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  S2: of God. What do you say?
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  S7: Yes, indeed. And you know, if you're looking for the
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  S7: will of God, there are 5 or 6 passages in
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  S7: the New Testament that tell you exactly what the will
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  S7: of God is. Here is the will of God, your sanctification.
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  S7: Give thanks in everything, for this is the will of God.
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  S7: And I've always maintained, Carl, that if we obey the
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  S7: will of God that is revealed, God will guide us
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  S7: in those matters that are unrevealed.
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  S2: Oh that's beautiful.
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  S7: You you have to make a decision. Okay? And you
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  S7: don't know. And I've had to do this many times.
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  S7: Is it going to be a or is it going
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  S7: to be B? So what I try to do is
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  S7: to say, Lord, you know that I'm leaning toward this way,
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  S7: but if I'm wrong, please close the door. You would
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  S7: be surprised at the number of ways that God has
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  S7: to lead us. The question is a matter of our hearts.
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  S7: Think of all the creative ways in which God led
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  S7: Jonah back to Nineveh. I mean, you know, he prepared
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  S7: a fish, he prepared a wind, he prepared all this
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  S7: stuff because God says, even though he's out of my will.
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  S7: I'm going to get him back. So the problem isn't
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  S7: with God. Do the six things. I don't have all
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  S7: of them in my mind right now, but do those
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  S7: things that say, this is the will of God?
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  S2: Yeah.
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  S7: And obey those. And you'll be surprised at how God
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  S7: will lead you in matters that are unrevealed.
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  S4: Let's go to Burt calling in this morning from Forest Park, Illinois.
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  S4: Give us your question for Pastor Lutzer.
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  S9: Yeah. Thank you, pastor and a big fan. If this
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  S9: is my last day on earth, I want you to know.
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  S9: Thank you for your ministry and your service. Um, here's
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  S9: my question. If I'm on a prayer team at church
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  S9: and prayed for somebody and the person they prayed for died.
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  S9: How do you keep them encouraged? Because what I said
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  S9: to them, because this is in my spirit. Um, God
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  S9: is going to heal either on this side of heaven,
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  S9: on the other side of heaven. But the answer came.
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  S9: And so while they're gone, you know, and they, they
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  S9: were saved and all those pieces. So we know they're
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  S9: in heaven, but the person was still discouraged. So how
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  S9: do you pray through something like that. When that request
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  S9: comes up and then keep that person encouraged.
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  S7: And that's an excellent question. And every pastor has had
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  S7: to ask that question and answer it in some way.
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  S7: It's not easy. But the truth is this ultimately God
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  S7: is God and we aren't. And we have to tell
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  S7: him that there are many unknowns. But in the end,
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  S7: things are going to look differently. In the end, what
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  S7: we'll discover is that God did all things well. The
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  S7: reason it's so difficult for us to say that on
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  S7: this side is we only you know, the other day
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  S7: somebody was giving an illustration of flying on a plane,
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  S7: and I think he was flying into San Francisco, though
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  S7: I could be wrong. But anyway, all that he could
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  S7: see is water, and the plane is getting lower and
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  S7: lower and lower, and he thinks we're going to crash.
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  S7: But then suddenly, you know, I guess the runway appeared
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  S7: and all was well. Now this is what he said.
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  S7: I could only see out of the window. The pilot
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  S7: had a windshield and he could see things that I
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  S7: couldn't see. And, you know, ultimately that's what it comes
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  S7: down to. God sees things we don't see. And, uh,
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  S7: you say, well, that takes a lot of faith. Exactly.
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  S7: And the trial of your faith is more precious than
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  S7: gold that perishes even though it be tried with fire.
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  S7: So there are many comforts that you can give to
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  S7: people like this. And if they are in emotional distress,
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  S7: expect that life is hard. Sorrow is fine. Yeah, but
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  S7: we don't sorrow as those who have no hope.
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  S2: Amen. Bert, thank you for that question. Going back to
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  S2: the phone lines, Jacob. First time caller in Chattanooga, Tennessee.
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  S2: What's your question for Pastor Lutzer?
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  S10: Uh, my question is about surrendering to God's will and, um,
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  S10: struggling with that and what kind of, I guess praying
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  S10: for that, um, to help, um, the heart be submitted
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  S10: to that.
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  S7: Ultimately, if I understand your correct, your question correctly, you know,
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  S7: I'm thinking of Romans chapter 12, present yourself to God,
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  S7: a living sacrifice. And I think in that context, again,
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  S7: it does talk about the perfect will of God. So
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  S7: my brother, you'd be surprised at the number of ways
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  S7: that God has to finally get us to say yes.
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  S7: And what he does is he often has to show
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  S7: us that our way is not as good as his.
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  S7: And at the end of the day, what we have
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  S7: to do is to say, not my will, but thine
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  S7: be done. And whatever that means, that's what you have
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  S7: to accept.
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  S2: I love that. Coming up here, pastor, we want to
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  S2: tackle this one. It comes in different forms. Prayer has
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  S2: been commonly seen in the West as a one way
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  S2: proposition and intercom, but God paints it as conversation. We
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  S2: talk with him and he prompts us. What does that
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  S2: look like in my life?
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  S1: When you don't know, who's better to ask than an expert?
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  S1: You're listening to Carl and crew.
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  S2: Pastor a question that came in and let me just
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  S2: frame it. This is multiple people have this perspective. A
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  S2: lot of people wonder, uh, have I been missing something
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  S2: in prayer? And that is prayer is often seen, I think,
• 20:07
  S2: in the West, more so than other regions around the globe.
• 20:10
  S2: As a intercom system, we're talking to God, whereas one
• 20:15
  S2: great spiritual man recently said, no, it should be more
• 20:18
  S2: like a walkie talkie. How do we release the button
• 20:21
  S2: and listen to God, pastor?
• 20:25
  S7: You know, Carl, that's an excellent question. And as I
• 20:28
  S7: have frequently heard you say, there are two different ways
• 20:31
  S7: to fall off of a log because it has two ends.
• 20:35
  S7: On the one hand, you find those who think that
• 20:37
  S7: they have direct access to God, talks to them and
• 20:41
  S7: gives them messages, verbal messages that are unfiltered. You know,
• 20:45
  S7: God told me this about you. That is very dangerous.
• 20:51
  S7: I've known people who thought that they were speaking on
• 20:54
  S7: behalf of God, and it's very clear they were not.
• 20:58
  S7: On the other hand, what you have is God. The
• 21:01
  S7: slot machine. I come before you and hear my needs
• 21:04
  S7: for today. I want you to do six things for me. Goodbye.
• 21:09
  S7: And I'm going to work. Here's. Here's the way in
• 21:13
  S7: which I see it. God does respond to us, and
• 21:17
  S7: we should expect a response, but it may not be verbal.
• 21:23
  S7: In fact, as I say, that could lead into some
• 21:26
  S7: dangerous waters. But it is a sense of his presence.
• 21:31
  S7: You know, you think, for example, of Paul's words in Philippians.
• 21:34
  S7: Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and
• 21:37
  S7: supplication let your requests be made known unto God. And
• 21:41
  S7: the peace of God which passes all understanding, will keep
• 21:45
  S7: your heart and mind. So there are times when the
• 21:48
  S7: response of God is just a sense of the deep
• 21:52
  S7: confidence of his presence, and a deep sense of peace
• 21:58
  S7: that this is in his hands. And for me, that
• 22:01
  S7: is sufficient. Yeah. But exactly. We should expect to hear
• 22:07
  S7: from him, but not verbally, but according to his promises.
• 22:12
  S7: And then there are times when we speak to God
• 22:14
  S7: and we feel that the heavens are silent. And we
• 22:17
  S7: may not know the reason for this, but we have
• 22:20
  S7: to analyze our own lives, you know, James says. He
• 22:23
  S7: says you offer requests to God and you don't get it,
• 22:27
  S7: so that you might consume it on your own lusts.
• 22:30
  S7: In other words, it's possible that we have prayed a
• 22:33
  S7: prayer that is so selfish and so, so self centered,
• 22:39
  S7: if I could put it that way, with all kinds
• 22:42
  S7: of sin in our lives. And so we can't really
• 22:45
  S7: expect the blessings of prayer. And sometimes it is just
• 22:51
  S7: a sense of his presence and saying, yes, Lord, I
• 22:55
  S7: see your hand in this. Now, in addition to this,
• 22:58
  S7: I frequently seen in my life, and I'm sure that
• 23:01
  S7: this is true of everyone who's listening. We look back
• 23:05
  S7: and we see ways in which God led us that
• 23:08
  S7: we didn't know about. And, and so there's that confidence
• 23:13
  S7: that he's leading us, even though sometimes the way is unclear.
• 23:17
  S7: Going forward.
• 23:18
  S4: Doctor Erwin Lutzer with us this morning. Stevie. First time
• 23:21
  S4: caller from Chicago. Go ahead with your question.
• 23:25
  S11: Um, my question is, um, I have read a lot
• 23:29
  S11: of books on prayer. I go to prayer services and
• 23:36
  S11: I really would love to have a better prayer life.
• 23:40
  S11: But when I read the books, I just get fired
• 23:44
  S11: up a few days and then later on it dies down. So.
• 23:48
  S11: Do you have any tips or what do I do
• 23:52
  S11: to improve my my prayer life?
• 23:56
  S7: I think that's really an excellent question. And I would
• 23:59
  S7: say this, that when you want to give, you improve
• 24:02
  S7: your prayer life, God will probably bring enough trouble into
• 24:06
  S7: your life to help you to recognize that you need
• 24:09
  S7: him every day. But the other thing is, and there's
• 24:14
  S7: a lot of mystery here, and I know that the
• 24:16
  S7: name of this segment is called Ask the Experts. And
• 24:21
  S7: I think to myself, my, you know, you should be
• 24:24
  S7: calling somebody else. But here's the point. What we have
• 24:28
  S7: to do is to realize there are times when God
• 24:30
  S7: gives us a burden and we pray for that burden.
• 24:35
  S7: And when the answer is no, we keep praying and
• 24:38
  S7: keep seeking God. I mean, this certainly happened to Daniel
• 24:42
  S7: in the Old Testament. Many other illustrations. Sometimes God just
• 24:46
  S7: you know, there's a verse in Isaiah that says, give
• 24:49
  S7: me no rest. In other words, keep coming. So to
• 24:53
  S7: those who are disappointed with God, begin with worship. All
• 24:58
  S7: the time. You know that word acts. How does it go? Adoration, confession,
• 25:05
  S7: thanksgiving and supplication. That actually is a good way to
• 25:08
  S7: remember it. So you always begin by giving God praise.
• 25:12
  S7: You always begin by submitting to him because that's the
• 25:15
  S7: main thing. You persist in the concern that he has
• 25:21
  S7: laid on your heart and you don't give up. So
• 25:24
  S7: you keep going. Why? God just wants us to go
• 25:28
  S7: deeper into him, if I might use that kind of terminology.
• 25:32
  S7: He wants to keep us on a short leash. And
• 25:36
  S7: so why? Because he wants us in his presence. And
• 25:40
  S7: if we can begin to think of prayer as being
• 25:44
  S7: in the presence of God and think of it that
• 25:47
  S7: way rather than just, here's what I want you to
• 25:49
  S7: do today. It changes everything.
• 25:52
  S1: Get in the know with life's biggest questions. It's Ask
• 25:55
  S1: the Experts week with Carl and crew.
• 25:58
  S2: Yeah. Ask the experts here with Carl and crew. Doctor
• 26:01
  S2: Lutzer with us right now. Steve, thanks for holding on.
• 26:04
  S2: What's your question for Pastor Lutzer?
• 26:06
  S12: Hi. Good morning pastor. And I have a question. How
• 26:12
  S12: do we pray To God, for ourselves and for others
• 26:17
  S12: and with others that are dealing with depression, mental illness,
• 26:23
  S12: or really in the deep darkness of suicidal thoughts.
• 26:28
  S2: Thank you for the question, Steve. What do you say, pastor?
• 26:31
  S7: Well, Steve, first of all, I'm not an expert in this,
• 26:33
  S7: so I speak with hesitation, but I hope I'm also
• 26:36
  S7: going to be able to speak with a word of
• 26:38
  S7: encouragement and hope. There was a man by the name
• 26:42
  S7: of William Cooper, sometimes pronounced Cooper in England. He wrote
• 26:48
  S7: the song, there is a fountain filled with blood. He
• 26:51
  S7: wrote the words God moves in a mysterious way, his
• 26:55
  S7: wonders to perform. And yet six times he tried to
• 26:59
  S7: commit suicide. He obviously had a mental illness. He lived
• 27:04
  S7: with depression. But in the book of Habakkuk, there's a
• 27:08
  S7: prayer that the prophet prays at the end after devastating
• 27:13
  S7: news about Israel going to be consumed by Babylon. And
• 27:19
  S7: Cowper took those words and wrote them and put them
• 27:23
  S7: into a song. And I do quote them, by the way,
• 27:26
  S7: in the book that we're talking about. But here's what
• 27:29
  S7: I want to say. Cowper wrote, the vine or fig
• 27:33
  S7: should neither their vaunted fruit should bear, though all the
• 27:36
  S7: fields should wither nor flocks be in. Be there yet
• 27:40
  S7: God the same abiding. His praise shall tune my voice.
• 27:44
  S7: For while in him confiding, I cannot but rejoice. Here's
• 27:48
  S7: what I want to say to those who are depressed.
• 27:52
  S7: They may go for counseling and all, and that may
• 27:54
  S7: be helpful. I I'm not opposed to that. But if
• 27:58
  S7: you have a pulse, you still have a praise. And
• 28:03
  S7: what we need to do is to look beyond our feelings,
• 28:07
  S7: beyond our circumstances, Beyond what we want to do, and
• 28:13
  S7: we have to live a life of praise. And when
• 28:17
  S7: we do that, it so often lifts our spirits and
• 28:22
  S7: helps us to know that even in my depression, God
• 28:27
  S7: is here and I can honor him. And when I
• 28:31
  S7: honor him, I begin to experience his sense of help
• 28:35
  S7: and peace. Now, beyond that, there are many things that
• 28:39
  S7: I don't know about mental illness and all that, but
• 28:42
  S7: I want to say to everyone listening, no matter where
• 28:46
  S7: you are in your prayer life, begin with praise. Always
• 28:51
  S7: begin with praise. Begin with thanksgiving. Find things for which
• 28:55
  S7: you can be thankful. And it's amazing how this will
• 28:59
  S7: change your attitude.
• 29:01
  S1: You've got questions. They've got answers. It's Ask the Experts
• 29:06
  S1: week with Carl and crew.
• 29:08
  S4: I remember going to a new church, and I noticed
• 29:10
  S4: early on that when the offering would come around, sometimes
• 29:14
  S4: they would ask someone from the congregation to take the
• 29:16
  S4: microphone and just pray for the offering. And I remember
• 29:20
  S4: it didn't take many Sundays before I started to have
• 29:23
  S4: a sense of panic when that time was coming. Boy,
• 29:26
  S4: I hope he never passes that mic to me because
• 29:28
  S4: I certainly don't want to pray in front of everybody.
• 29:31
  S4: Doctor Erwin Lutzer this question came in by text message,
• 29:35
  S4: but many people feel like this like I can pray
• 29:37
  S4: in my prayer closet, but in on a mic or
• 29:40
  S4: in front of a group of people in a small
• 29:42
  S4: group that can feel very intimidating. What do you say?
• 29:46
  S7: Well, Ali, I think you're the one to answer that question.
• 29:48
  S7: You seem to have come a long way from being
• 29:51
  S7: fearful that you would pray in public to be on
• 29:54
  S7: a national program. So I think you're the one that
• 29:57
  S7: should answer. But here's the point. It's okay if you
• 30:01
  S7: feel uncomfortable praying in public, and I hope that you
• 30:07
  S7: aren't forced to. If that's the case. But at the
• 30:11
  S7: same time, you know there is growth here and there
• 30:14
  S7: is prayer that happens in the heart. There's prayer that
• 30:17
  S7: happens in your private life. And even if you're uncomfortable
• 30:21
  S7: in praying out loud, you also may be uncomfortable just
• 30:24
  S7: speaking out loud. That's okay. You may grow in that
• 30:27
  S7: department or you may not. It's your heart that God wants.
• 30:31
  S2: I love that Pastor Lutzer is our guest right now. Uh,
• 30:35
  S2: there's a lot of questions coming in with regard to
• 30:39
  S2: spiritual trajectory and prayer for this sanctification, which is a
• 30:44
  S2: big fancy word for growing up in Christ Jesus. Uh,
• 30:47
  S2: what are we looking for when we pray that way?
• 30:50
  S2: Let's say we're praying to overcome a temptation. What are
• 30:54
  S2: we looking for, pastor?
• 30:57
  S7: Well, what we're looking for is, yes, in the Lord's Prayer.
• 31:01
  S7: You know, lead us not into temptation, but deliver us
• 31:05
  S7: from evil. So that is a legitimate prayer. But there
• 31:08
  S7: are also other things in the Word of God that
• 31:11
  S7: we need to be obedient to, to see that prayer fulfilled.
• 31:15
  S7: We can't simply say, okay, God, I've prayed about that.
• 31:18
  S7: Now I'm okay. I mean, the Bible talks about spiritual warfare.
• 31:23
  S7: It speaks about guarding our hearts and so forth. So
• 31:27
  S7: I hope I'm answering your question, Karl. I'm not entirely
• 31:30
  S7: sure that I am, but that's what comes to mind.
• 31:33
  S2: Well that's good. Um, how? Just a quick follow up
• 31:36
  S2: to that. I have found that when I'm listening to
• 31:40
  S2: the Lord in prayer, he brings scripture to mind in
• 31:43
  S2: the absence of Scripture creates a vacuum for which almost
• 31:47
  S2: any of my own wisdom could come in. How central
• 31:51
  S2: is the Word of God? And I mean, this is
• 31:54
  S2: a softball, right, pastor? It's central, isn't it, to prayer?
• 31:57
  S7: Well, it is. And even this morning before I got
• 32:00
  S7: out of bed, I was praying. And what was I praying?
• 32:03
  S7: I was actually praying Scripture. And what people need to
• 32:07
  S7: know is, if you're new in the prayer life and
• 32:09
  S7: you don't know how to pray for your child or whatever,
• 32:12
  S7: look at the promises of God. Look at Paul's prayers
• 32:17
  S7: and pray those. And when you pray a prayer that
• 32:20
  S7: Paul gives, I was actually praying Ephesians chapter one. When
• 32:25
  S7: you pray a prayer like that, you don't even have
• 32:28
  S7: to add at the end, if it be thy will,
• 32:30
  S7: that is the will of God. The apostle Paul constantly.
• 32:35
  S7: You know that your. That the eyes of your heart
• 32:37
  S7: may be enlightened, that you might know what is the
• 32:39
  S7: hope of your calling and the inheritance of the saints.
• 32:43
  S7: Those prayers are always God's will. So if you know
• 32:47
  S7: where to begin, that's a great place to begin. Paul
• 32:50
  S7: prays about 12 different prayers in the epistles. The letters
• 32:56
  S7: that he wrote begin there.
• 32:58
  S4: Doctor Erwin Lutzer, our guest this morning, this one came
• 33:01
  S4: in and could have come in many times over. Someone says,
• 33:04
  S4: I'm constantly praying for my son's salvation, but I've not
• 33:08
  S4: seen a change. What do I do now?
• 33:11
  S7: Uh. Just keep praying and make sure that you, uh,
• 33:16
  S7: provide an environment where the prodigal son is willing to
• 33:20
  S7: come home. And, uh, all that you can do is parents.
• 33:25
  S7: You can't convert your child. You can pray that God
• 33:29
  S7: would convert them, but you can't. Conversion is of God. So,
• 33:34
  S7: my dear mother, my dear father, whoever you are, keep praying,
• 33:39
  S7: keep interceding. Many illustrations come to mind that we don't
• 33:43
  S7: have time to give right now of parents who kept
• 33:46
  S7: praying and God eventually answered their prayers, but it didn't
• 33:51
  S7: happen right away.
• 33:53
  S4: Doctor Lutzer, this is a heartfelt question from someone who
• 33:56
  S4: says they've gotten really frustrated with God. With my life.
• 33:59
  S4: I've talked to him angrily. I believe suffering from chronic
• 34:02
  S4: anxiety and dealing with despair has led me there. My
• 34:05
  S4: question is how can I know God will still hear
• 34:07
  S4: me and see me since I fear I have offended him.
• 34:12
  S7: I go to Psalm 77 and read it there. The author.
• 34:17
  S7: I think it may be Asaph. He just pesters God
• 34:20
  S7: with one question after another, just spills out his disappointment.
• 34:24
  S7: But the Psalm does end with praise. So to this
• 34:28
  S7: dear person, God can handle whatever you have done. And
• 34:34
  S7: if you are upset with him and you tell him that,
• 34:37
  S7: don't worry, he can handle it. But what he wants
• 34:41
  S7: ultimately is praise and submission. And when you're brought to
• 34:46
  S7: that point, God of course forgives and he understands. So
• 34:51
  S7: we keep going on.
• 34:53
  S2: I love it. Some of you are just maybe getting
• 34:57
  S2: a portion of this and I want you to take
• 35:00
  S2: a deeper dive. If you text the word media, you'll
• 35:04
  S2: get linked up with great resources, including Pastor Lutz's latest book,
• 35:09
  S2: Why Doesn't God Answer My Prayers? Why doesn't God answer
• 35:14
  S2: my prayers? Text media to 805 557898. Text media to
• 35:21
  S2: 805 557898. Although there have been a ton of questions,
• 35:26
  S2: we've just barely scratched the surface. And in his work,
• 35:30
  S2: why doesn't God answer my prayers? It's going to plumb
• 35:33
  S2: the depths of Scripture and give years of wisdom. From
• 35:37
  S2: Pastor Lutzer text media to 805 557898.
• 35:43
  S1: Get your info from a source you can trust. It's
• 35:46
  S1: Ask the Experts week with Carl and crew.
• 35:49
  S2: Well, the beat goes on. Abdu Murray here new to me.
• 35:53
  S2: Ali was keeping him all to herself for the longest time,
• 35:56
  S2: And then when I.
• 35:58
  S4: As in we had him on twice when Carl was out.
• 36:01
  S2: Oh my goodness. Speaker, author, attorney who specializes in addressing
• 36:06
  S2: issues where religious faith and emerging cultural trends intersect and collide.
• 36:12
  S2: They're colliding everywhere, aren't they, Abdu?
• 36:14
  S13: They are indeed. Thanks for having me on, guys. I
• 36:16
  S13: really appreciate it.
• 36:17
  S2: Really good to have you back. What are the big
• 36:19
  S2: issues today?
• 36:20
  S13: Well, the big issues today are almost daily changing. Um, uh,
• 36:25
  S13: in terms of where faith and culture collide. I mean, the,
• 36:27
  S13: the big pervasive issues right now, at least for the
• 36:29
  S13: past two years, have been the advent of AI and
• 36:32
  S13: where that's leading us in terms of understanding what it
• 36:35
  S13: means to be human and what it means to be
• 36:38
  S13: made in the image of God. And we're sort of
• 36:40
  S13: sort of losing a sense of that, because if the
• 36:42
  S13: machines can do what we do and they have no soul,
• 36:45
  S13: what does that say about us? Uh, also, of course,
• 36:48
  S13: the issues of identity. I mean, identity seems to be
• 36:50
  S13: the word that everyone talks about all the time. And
• 36:53
  S13: of course, you know, world events. And what is the
• 36:56
  S13: role of the Christian in praying for our enemies and
• 37:01
  S13: those who persecute us in light of all that's going
• 37:03
  S13: on around the world? So there's no shortage of cultural
• 37:06
  S13: issues to have to talk about, and they seem to
• 37:08
  S13: emerge daily. The good news is, is that we have
• 37:10
  S13: an unchanging message that predicts all these things, even though
• 37:14
  S13: the world seems to be changing.
• 37:15
  S2: It seems to me like we got a tough recipe.
• 37:18
  S2: We've got spiritual ambiguity on the rise in the West,
• 37:21
  S2: and then you've got an AI platform that is, um,
• 37:24
  S2: spiritually ambiguous on steroids. That's a bad combo, isn't it,
• 37:29
  S2: my friend?
• 37:30
  S13: It really is. Because what when we do have a
• 37:33
  S13: sense in which people are returning to a sense of spirituality,
• 37:36
  S13: but there's also this dominant feature in culture, which is
• 37:39
  S13: the culture of self making, whether it's curating your online, uh,
• 37:44
  S13: persona or it's becoming an influencer, especially for young people.
• 37:47
  S13: When you ask them, what do you want to be
• 37:49
  S13: when you grow up? They say influencer. And that leads
• 37:52
  S13: to a sense of a curated and a manufactured identity.
• 37:56
  S13: Then along comes artificial intelligence platform, which basically says, you
• 38:02
  S13: don't really have one. You're just a machine like me. Um, and, um,
• 38:06
  S13: but you can create it if you want to, but
• 38:08
  S13: you have to do it not through a spiritual means,
• 38:10
  S13: but through a completely sort of artificial means. It's a,
• 38:14
  S13: it's a dangerous combination. And we're seeing the effects of it.
• 38:17
  S13: The more the research is coming out, the more we're
• 38:19
  S13: seeing that overreliance on technology to tell you what the
• 38:24
  S13: world is like and to do your thinking for you
• 38:27
  S13: is not resulting in the machines becoming more human like.
• 38:30
  S13: It's resulting in the humans becoming more machine like.
• 38:33
  S4: Abdu Murray, our guest expert now. He has tackled complex
• 38:37
  S4: issues in some pretty tough forums. He does Q&A forums, debates,
• 38:41
  S4: dialogues at leading universities like Yale, Berkeley, MIT, and others
• 38:47
  S4: around the world. I am going to. One of the
• 38:49
  S4: things I love about your website, Abdu, is that you
• 38:51
  S4: have these videos of these 20 of the most commonly
• 38:55
  S4: asked questions about the faith. Let's start with this one.
• 38:59
  S4: Is the Bible morally outdated?
• 39:03
  S13: Yeah. And this is one of my favorite topics actually
• 39:05
  S13: to talk about because I wrote a book called More
• 39:07
  S13: Than a White Man's Religion, where I posed the issue.
• 39:11
  S13: The more I see on schools, I see that the
• 39:13
  S13: university levels, they're not asking first, is the Bible true?
• 39:17
  S13: They're asking first, is the Bible moral because they accuse
• 39:20
  S13: it of being sexist and racist and, uh, anything ending
• 39:24
  S13: in the suffix phobia, you know, uh, transphobia, homophobia, that
• 39:29
  S13: kind of thing. Um, and the answer is no. In fact,
• 39:32
  S13: I would argue that the Bible is actually the cure
• 39:34
  S13: for the very things that's being blamed for. When you
• 39:36
  S13: look at the way, let's just take the racism and
• 39:38
  S13: ethnicism issue. Um, when you look at the way the
• 39:41
  S13: Bible actually describes the nation of Israel, oftentimes Israel is
• 39:45
  S13: used as an instrument of judgment by God for the
• 39:48
  S13: actions of the surrounding nations. In other words, God doesn't
• 39:52
  S13: judge them based on their skin color or based on
• 39:54
  S13: their location, or based on their accents or their food choices. Rather,
• 39:59
  S13: God judges them based on their on what they do morally,
• 40:04
  S13: which is child sacrifice and worshiping false gods, temple prostitution
• 40:09
  S13: and these things. And we know it's not race based
• 40:11
  S13: because when Israel does the same things, God uses those
• 40:14
  S13: other nations as instruments of judgment to correct Israel herself.
• 40:19
  S13: So we see that God is no, no, no, no
• 40:22
  S13: one who favors people based on their ethnicity. In fact,
• 40:25
  S13: God judges people not based on their skin color, but
• 40:28
  S13: on the content of their character. And of course, that
• 40:30
  S13: sounds terribly familiar. That sounds like Martin Luther King, who
• 40:33
  S13: did not pull that phrase out of the sky. Well,
• 40:36
  S13: I guess it came from the Bible, so he kind
• 40:37
  S13: of did, but, um, uh, but it's, it's the sentiment
• 40:40
  S13: of equality, uh, right there. And then you see if the,
• 40:43
  S13: if the Bible were racist and sexist, what you wouldn't
• 40:46
  S13: see is women who are non-Jews being the heroes of stories.
• 40:52
  S13: Yet you see in John chapter four, when Jesus encounters
• 40:55
  S13: a Samaritan woman who is rejected by not only her
• 40:58
  S13: own people, but, of course, by the animosity that existed
• 41:02
  S13: between two ethnicities of the Jews and the Samaritans. Jesus
• 41:05
  S13: uses a woman to become the first cross-cultural missionary, and
• 41:08
  S13: she's wildly successful. And that is an amazing thing. And
• 41:12
  S13: that's one story of. But dozens. So right now in
• 41:15
  S13: our culture, we're facing the issues of racial equality and
• 41:19
  S13: all these kind of things and gender equality. And the
• 41:22
  S13: Bible has been talking about this for 2000 years. So
• 41:25
  S13: rather than be this kind of thing where we think
• 41:27
  S13: of it as an outdated book, it's actually our eternal contemporary.
• 41:31
  S13: It's ancient, yet it constantly speaks to our current cultural issues.
• 41:35
  S2: How do we live in a culture not just in
• 41:38
  S2: the West? I think predominantly more so here. It seems
• 41:42
  S2: that when I travel around the world and I see
• 41:45
  S2: people that don't have the means we have in the West.
• 41:48
  S2: AM reminded that Jesus himself said, I've chosen those who
• 41:52
  S2: are poor in this world to be rich in faith. It's.
• 41:55
  S2: It's a bizarre situation that we have. We've got blame
• 41:58
  S2: game on steroids. And my my question is, I know
• 42:03
  S2: that we need to look for justice, but how important.
• 42:09
  S2: I'm sharing my conviction here. Here's my conviction. Rather than
• 42:13
  S2: asking you to rubber stamp my conviction, you tell me
• 42:16
  S2: where I'm wrong. My conviction is that the gospel has
• 42:22
  S2: an innate nature of looking within oneself, not the world
• 42:26
  S2: around us. And when we lose that, we lose a lot.
• 42:29
  S2: AM I wrong, Abdu?
• 42:32
  S13: When we look within ourselves and not to the world,
• 42:35
  S13: we lose a lot. Or we lose that idea.
• 42:37
  S2: Yeah. When we lose the idea that the the the
• 42:40
  S2: greatest problem in our life is staring us in the
• 42:43
  S2: mirror in the morning and not someone else. We're better off,
• 42:46
  S2: aren't we, Abdu?
• 42:47
  S13: We? We are. Um. And this is where I think
• 42:50
  S13: the gospel has this universal applicability. You know, I came
• 42:53
  S13: from a Muslim background and a Middle Eastern, uh, ethnicity.
• 42:57
  S13: And so I come from an honor and shame culture
• 43:00
  S13: and an honor and shame culture is different than a Western, um,
• 43:04
  S13: innocence and guilt culture in the sense that an honor
• 43:06
  S13: and shame culture is communal. Uh, we have the same morality.
• 43:09
  S13: We just enforce it communally. In other words, if I
• 43:12
  S13: do something wrong, I become someone shameful as opposed to
• 43:17
  S13: I've done something wrong in the in the West, we
• 43:20
  S13: have an individualized culture, which is if I do something wrong,
• 43:24
  S13: I can look inwardly and I don't need someone else
• 43:26
  S13: to tell me. I look in the man in the mirror,
• 43:28
  S13: as it were. Um, and both have their beauties. Um,
• 43:31
  S13: because I do think there is this sense in which
• 43:33
  S13: the sin condition is something that's intensely personal. And when
• 43:36
  S13: we don't reckon with the sin condition, um, and see
• 43:40
  S13: the truth of our, uh, the the condition with which
• 43:44
  S13: we are beset, then we can't affect the community in
• 43:47
  S13: a positive way. Um, however, um, we have to recognize
• 43:52
  S13: at the same time that our sin condition does have
• 43:54
  S13: a communal effect. So while we're looking for justice and
• 43:57
  S13: these kind of things and equality all throughout society, it
• 44:00
  S13: starts internally. Um, and so the beauty of the gospel is,
• 44:04
  S13: is that it was presented to an honor and shame
• 44:08
  S13: Middle Eastern culture. So it was communal and it talked
• 44:11
  S13: about the societal impacts of our sin, but it also
• 44:15
  S13: presents itself in an individualized way because our individual sin
• 44:20
  S13: is being called out. When the rich young ruler says,
• 44:22
  S13: what must I do to attain eternal life? Jesus individualizes
• 44:26
  S13: the answer. He says, there's one thing you lack. Not everybody,
• 44:29
  S13: just you. And you need to sell everything you have
• 44:32
  S13: and come, come, follow me. Not because rich people are
• 44:35
  S13: inherently bad and they have this thing that other people
• 44:38
  S13: don't have. But because this guy relied on himself a
• 44:41
  S13: little too much, and Jesus needed to call out that guy.
• 44:45
  S13: So he held up a mirror to that individual guy,
• 44:48
  S13: and he did it in a communal culture. And the
• 44:50
  S13: whole idea here is that when we face the sin internally,
• 44:55
  S13: we can begin to have positive effect externally. But if
• 44:58
  S13: we don't deal with the person we're looking at, well,
• 45:01
  S13: then how can we ever actually affect the world in
• 45:04
  S13: a positive way? In fact, more than that, when we
• 45:07
  S13: don't look internally, we start to judge hypocritically. And that's
• 45:10
  S13: a violation of when Jesus says, do not judge hypocritically,
• 45:13
  S13: but when you judge, use a correct judgment. So over
• 45:16
  S13: and over again, when we look internally and we lose
• 45:19
  S13: that sense, we start to judge other people as less
• 45:21
  S13: than us. And therefore there is an inequality. We judge
• 45:24
  S13: their prejudices and their inequalities, never dealing with the inequalities
• 45:28
  S13: in our own life.
• 45:30
  S1: Get in the know with life's biggest questions. It's Ask
• 45:33
  S1: the Experts week with Carl and crew.
• 45:36
  S2: It's Carl and crew. Ask the experts. One of our
• 45:39
  S2: favorites here, Abdu Murray. Uh, here's why this is so important.
• 45:44
  S2: When we're talking to world religion, we're talking ethics. We're
• 45:47
  S2: talking almost any topic where you've got this collision of
• 45:51
  S2: philosophies in our world today. Abdu, a question I'm asking
• 45:55
  S2: for a friend. Allah me. Here we go. Um, Abdu,
• 46:02
  S2: I had a friend when I lived in South Africa
• 46:04
  S2: for a year, had a ministry to Muslims, and he
• 46:07
  S2: had an interesting approach. I, I don't have a dog
• 46:11
  S2: in this hunt at all. So I want your honest opinion.
• 46:13
  S2: You being raised in a Muslim context. He appealed that
• 46:17
  S2: this God that these folks were praying to in their
• 46:22
  S2: naivety or maybe in their Muslim in name only, was
• 46:27
  S2: really the one true and living God. And he used
• 46:29
  S2: that as an attempt of an evangelistic tool. I've heard
• 46:33
  S2: a lot of debate on this. So coming from your van,
• 46:37
  S2: you've got a perfect platform to speak to this. Who
• 46:41
  S2: is the god of the Muslim of Islam versus the
• 46:44
  S2: God of the scriptures?
• 46:46
  S13: Yeah. And this great question. And oftentimes I want to
• 46:51
  S13: make sure I approach this with a level of tactical
• 46:54
  S13: wisdom and not only, um, uh, biblical insight, but of
• 46:58
  S13: course they feed each other, don't they? Yeah. And that's
• 47:01
  S13: when Paul says in Colossians chapter four, verse five. Walk
• 47:04
  S13: in wisdom toward outsiders. So we were talking to a Muslim.
• 47:07
  S13: If you start talking about different gods, well, because they
• 47:11
  S13: fundamentally believe because the Quran, their holy book, says that Allah,
• 47:15
  S13: which is just a name for God, which means the God.
• 47:18
  S13: In fact, most, uh, most Arab Christians refer to God
• 47:23
  S13: as Allah, uh, as well, not just Muslims, because it
• 47:27
  S13: means the God. They would say that their God from
• 47:30
  S13: the Bible, from the Quran, I should say, um, uh, is, uh,
• 47:33
  S13: the only uncreated being there is. everything else is created.
• 47:36
  S13: He's perfect. He's all knowing, all powerful, all these things.
• 47:39
  S13: He's the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Ishmael. And on
• 47:42
  S13: it goes. So they would say it's the same line of, uh,
• 47:47
  S13: the prophets come from the same God. Um, now the
• 47:51
  S13: issue though, is that that God is described in the
• 47:54
  S13: Quran is very different in terms of his nature. For example,
• 47:59
  S13: God is not triune. It is a blasphemous thing to
• 48:02
  S13: say in Islam that God is one in his nature
• 48:04
  S13: and three in his persons, that he is incarnational. He
• 48:08
  S13: would never incarnate and limit himself in their words to
• 48:12
  S13: Jesus's body. And that would be blasphemous itself. And then,
• 48:15
  S13: my goodness, he would never die on a cross, because
• 48:19
  S13: to die at the hands of the very sinners you
• 48:20
  S13: created is an utterly shameful and weak thing. And God
• 48:24
  S13: is too great for that, because they say the phrase
• 48:26
  S13: Allahu Akbar. Um, so they would say that those things
• 48:29
  S13: are fundamentally different. So what we're doing is we're talking
• 48:32
  S13: about God, But we're having very different conceptions of who
• 48:37
  S13: and what that God is and what he's like. So
• 48:40
  S13: it's very different. The very things that I thought when
• 48:44
  S13: I was a Muslim insulted God's greatness, like the Trinity,
• 48:48
  S13: the incarnation, and the cross. As I began to look
• 48:51
  S13: into these things over a nine year search of the philosophical,
• 48:54
  S13: historical and scientific and other underpinnings of the various faiths,
• 48:59
  S13: these ideas of Trinity, incarnation and cross. I thought they
• 49:02
  S13: insulted God's greatness. I've come to realize they actually demonstrate
• 49:06
  S13: God's greatness. Wow. So for. So, for example, the cross.
• 49:10
  S13: If God is truly the greatest possible being. And Muslims
• 49:13
  S13: believe that by the way, they would say Allahu Akbar,
• 49:15
  S13: God is greater. He's the greatest possible being. But if
• 49:19
  S13: God is the greatest possible being, then he would express
• 49:22
  S13: the greatest possible virtue, which is love in the greatest
• 49:26
  S13: possible way. That just stands to reason. And what is
• 49:30
  S13: the greatest possible way to express the greatest possible virtue with.
• 49:33
  S13: The greatest possible way to express love is self-sacrifice. And
• 49:37
  S13: Islam knows nothing of that from the terms of God
• 49:40
  S13: Himself exhibiting that greatest virtue. But we do it. And
• 49:45
  S13: so God has to do it better than we do,
• 49:47
  S13: and we do it for those who love us. But
• 49:49
  S13: God does it for those who hate him. Romans chapter five,
• 49:52
  S13: verse eight. And when I realize that, and then I
• 49:55
  S13: saw that whole philosophical argument encapsulated in just one verse,
• 49:59
  S13: Romans chapter five, verse eight. I thought, oh my goodness,
• 50:02
  S13: this truly is the Lord of language, the Lord of philosophy,
• 50:06
  S13: the Lord of love, and the Lord of sacrifice. And
• 50:09
  S13: I gave my life to him.
• 50:10
  S3: Oh.
• 50:11
  S2: You know what I do? That is the greatest witnessing
• 50:15
  S2: tool I've ever heard. And I have. I have some
• 50:18
  S2: dear friends, neighbors that go winter in Pakistan and, uh,
• 50:24
  S2: they're restaurateurs and they might even be listening right now. Um,
• 50:28
  S2: and I love them so much. and what a. That
• 50:32
  S2: almost brings me to tears, bro. That's a powerful tool,
• 50:35
  S2: isn't it?
• 50:36
  S13: Well, it brought me to tears when I first realized it.
• 50:38
  S13: You know, I looked for nine years. And I think
• 50:41
  S13: this is an important thing we have to recognize. Is
• 50:43
  S13: that what we're talking about, cultural issues or different religious
• 50:46
  S13: issues or whatever it is? The way the apostle Paul
• 50:49
  S13: talks in Colossians chapter four is, he says, make the
• 50:52
  S13: best use of the time. Let your speech be gracious,
• 50:54
  S13: seasoned with salt, so you may know how you ought
• 50:56
  S13: to answer each person, not each worldview, not each issue,
• 50:59
  S13: not each controversy, but each person. So when Christians were
• 51:04
  S13: engaging with me, they were asking essentially the effective ones
• 51:08
  S13: were asking, what does Abdu care about? What are the
• 51:10
  S13: things that he deeply longs for that are legitimate? And
• 51:14
  S13: how does the gospel speak to it and answer it?
• 51:16
  S13: And so I, as a Muslim, wanted to, uh, follow
• 51:21
  S13: a religion or follow a belief system that extolled God
• 51:24
  S13: as the greatest possible being. Uh, that's the center or
• 51:27
  S13: center of Islam. And so various ways I saw that
• 51:31
  S13: the gospel over time, despite my resistance to it, started
• 51:35
  S13: to answer the things I needed to know were true.
• 51:39
  S13: It was Blaise Pascal who beautifully said that men despise
• 51:43
  S13: religion and they fear that it may be true. The
• 51:45
  S13: trick is to show them that religion is not contrary
• 51:47
  S13: to reason, but worthy of reverence and respect. And then
• 51:50
  S13: he says, make good people wish it were true, and
• 51:54
  S13: then show them that it is true. And for me,
• 51:57
  S13: that's the big, the big, the big mesh. You mesh
• 52:00
  S13: someone's legitimate desire with the rational belief. And the Bible
• 52:04
  S13: does exactly that I do.
• 52:06
  S2: This is you have hit on the most salient point
• 52:10
  S2: of witness to almost any worldview other than a christocentric,
• 52:15
  S2: self-sacrificing Jesus, because they all aim at something like this,
• 52:20
  S2: don't they?
• 52:21
  S13: They do. You know, people often say things like, all
• 52:24
  S13: religions are essentially the same. They're only superficially different, but
• 52:28
  S13: the reality is they're exactly the opposite. They're superficially the same, but, um, but,
• 52:33
  S13: but deeply, profoundly different, except in this one way. Every
• 52:37
  S13: system of belief in some form or fashion has a
• 52:41
  S13: sense in which you're, you strive to please God or
• 52:46
  S13: to attain enlightenment, or even if you're an atheist, if
• 52:49
  S13: we have enough education and resource distribution and these kind
• 52:53
  S13: of things will manufacture a Star Trek like existence where
• 52:56
  S13: we'll speak to machines and food will pop out. You know,
• 52:59
  S13: there's always this sense in which we are our own savior. Um,
• 53:02
  S13: in Islam, for example, if you do enough good works,
• 53:05
  S13: your cosmic scale is weighed to the balance. Where you're
• 53:07
  S13: good outweighs your bad, and you go to heaven, you
• 53:10
  S13: still need God's mercy. Of course, the Quran says that
• 53:12
  S13: over and over again, but even that mercy is earned.
• 53:14
  S13: In one sense, it is only the Christian gospel in
• 53:18
  S13: sharp distinction to every other worldview that says, you cannot
• 53:22
  S13: be good enough. We cannot be the solution because we
• 53:25
  S13: are in fact the problem, and therefore we need someone
• 53:28
  S13: who's not us to save us from us. And even
• 53:32
  S13: the Quran itself, the book of the Muslims says, If
• 53:34
  S13: God were to judge humanity according to what it deserves,
• 53:37
  S13: he would not leave on the back of the earth
• 53:39
  S13: even one living thing. That's how deep and pervasive and
• 53:42
  S13: destructive our sin is. So if that's how bad we are,
• 53:46
  S13: how can we fix it? We need God's mercy, of course,
• 53:49
  S13: but we need God's solution. And the cross is the
• 53:52
  S13: solution that that satisfies God's justice and his mercy at
• 53:55
  S13: the same time.
• 53:56
  S2: Mohammed had a moment of clarity there.
• 53:59
  S13: Yeah. No, absolutely. And because he was influenced by by
• 54:02
  S13: Christians around him, and there were Christians who who were
• 54:06
  S13: in Arabia at the time of Mohammed's advent. So he
• 54:09
  S13: did have some level of influence there. And so I
• 54:12
  S13: think here's the thing, I think, uh, is that every
• 54:16
  S13: system of belief at some point or another recognizes and
• 54:20
  S13: this comes from a secular source, Stephen Prothero, he says
• 54:22
  S13: every system of belief recognizes that there's something wrong with
• 54:25
  S13: the world and something wrong with humanity. But we all
• 54:28
  S13: get to different. We get to different finish lines. We
• 54:30
  S13: have the same starting line, different finish lines. It is
• 54:33
  S13: the Christian faith that says the starting line dictates how
• 54:36
  S13: we get to the finish line. Because if something's wrong
• 54:39
  S13: with us, then we need someone outside of us. Other
• 54:42
  S13: systems of belief pay lip service to this. They do,
• 54:45
  S13: but they don't get you all the way there because
• 54:47
  S13: there's ultimately a humanistic central to those views. Um, and
• 54:52
  S13: it's the Christian faith in its irony, which says that
• 54:55
  S13: human beings are sinful, yet we are beautifully and wonderfully
• 54:59
  S13: made in God's image. And so the cross reconciles and
• 55:04
  S13: bridges those two seemingly contradictory but only paradoxical truths that
• 55:09
  S13: we are made in God's image. And because we're infinitely valuable,
• 55:12
  S13: made in his image, an infinite price needs to be
• 55:14
  S13: paid to redeem us. And that's why God Himself pays it.
• 55:18
  S13: If we are infinitely valuable. But we try in our
• 55:21
  S13: finitude to pay the price. The price will never be
• 55:23
  S13: sufficient because it's not infinite to satisfy our infinite value
• 55:27
  S13: in God's infinite justice and mercy. But the cross is
• 55:30
  S13: infinite because God Himself pays.
• 55:32
  S3: Wow.
• 55:33
  S4: Abdu Murray, our guest. And you're going. How can I
• 55:36
  S4: find out more about this guy? Text embrace. He is
• 55:39
  S4: the president of embrace the truth. Just text embrace to
• 55:43
  S4: 800 555 7898. Embrace to 800 555 7898. Coming up,
• 55:51
  S4: we'll tackle this one. It's now common for people to
• 55:54
  S4: push back against the suggestion that there's a your truth.
• 55:58
  S4: My truth that debate's been going on for a while,
• 56:01
  S4: but as we as you've been talking about in the
• 56:03
  S4: same vein, what's the most kind, loving, winsome way to
• 56:08
  S4: approach that question where it's not angry, it's not fist stomping,
• 56:11
  S4: but why can't we all have our own truth coming up.
• 56:16
  S1: When you don't know who's better to ask than an expert.
• 56:20
  S1: You're listening to Karl and crew.
• 56:23
  S14: Well, right back to our Ask the Expert this hour.
• 56:26
  S4: Abdu Murray from Embrace the Truth. He is a speaker, author, attorney.
• 56:30
  S4: You know, it can be tempting to be triggered or
• 56:33
  S4: get angry when somebody uses a version of your truth.
• 56:36
  S4: My truth. But what's the loving way to respond to
• 56:40
  S4: somebody who suggests that that's great, that what you believe
• 56:44
  S4: works for you? I believe something different that works for me.
• 56:47
  S4: Can't we all just get along?
• 56:50
  S13: Yeah. Well, the first thing I think in that kind
• 56:52
  S13: of objection is that we don't believe things because they work. Um,
• 56:57
  S13: things aren't true because they work. But oftentimes things that
• 57:00
  S13: are true do in fact work. In other words, it
• 57:02
  S13: doesn't work because it doesn't. It's not true because it works.
• 57:06
  S13: It works because it's true. Um, now sometimes we have
• 57:10
  S13: to realize that things that, uh, things that are inconvenient
• 57:13
  S13: are also true as well. So when someone says my truth,
• 57:17
  S13: you have your truth, I have my truth. And let's
• 57:19
  S13: settle it at that. Um, the problem with that is
• 57:22
  S13: that it sounds incredibly respectful. And so what I want
• 57:24
  S13: to say is the way to lovingly approach this is
• 57:26
  S13: to say, okay, I hear what you're trying to say.
• 57:28
  S13: You're trying to be respectful of all points of view
• 57:30
  S13: and give each point of view an equal weight. But
• 57:33
  S13: the reality is truth by definition, excludes that which is false.
• 57:37
  S13: By definition, it's exclusive. So it can't actually be a
• 57:40
  S13: cosmic vacuum where everything can be allowed. Because what if
• 57:44
  S13: I say it's my truth that your truth is false?
• 57:47
  S13: Now what? Because if my truth is that your truth
• 57:49
  S13: is false, and your truth is that all truths are true,
• 57:52
  S13: now we're at an impasse. And so if you're going
• 57:54
  S13: to respect my beliefs, then you have to respect my
• 57:56
  S13: belief that your belief is wrong. Well, now what do
• 57:59
  S13: we do? And so that can't be the way it goes.
• 58:01
  S13: That is simply a recipe for chaos. Rather, I do
• 58:05
  S13: what I call giving people the dignity of difference. I
• 58:09
  S13: take someone else's point of view seriously enough to say
• 58:12
  S13: I will agree or disagree based on what you say. So,
• 58:15
  S13: for example, at Christianity, we talked about this before Christianity
• 58:19
  S13: and Islam. Um, there's many things that are similar in
• 58:23
  S13: their belief systems, but there's enough things that are fundamentally
• 58:26
  S13: different that we would say this if Islam and Christianity
• 58:30
  S13: were similar and were equally true, then what was the
• 58:32
  S13: point of the advent of Islam in the first place?
• 58:36
  S13: Because why would you need a new a system of
• 58:40
  S13: belief to correct, you know, in their view, Christian belief.
• 58:44
  S13: If the Christian belief in the in the Muslim belief
• 58:46
  S13: were essentially the same, what was the point of Muhammad
• 58:48
  S13: in the first place? What was the point of the
• 58:50
  S13: Quran in the first place? So I would say that
• 58:53
  S13: I take a Muslim seriously when I disagree with them.
• 58:55
  S13: I'm taking 1400 years of tradition and saying, I looked
• 59:01
  S13: at your views. They're different than my views. Now let's
• 59:03
  S13: talk lovingly and caringly about why they're different, because to
• 59:07
  S13: say they're all equally true and I have my truth
• 59:09
  S13: and you have your truth is to invalidate the claims
• 59:13
  S13: of the various founders of the most influential belief systems
• 59:17
  S13: in the world. Hinduism and Buddhism are a good example.
• 59:20
  S13: They sound so similar because they both believe in reincarnation
• 59:23
  S13: and karma. But Buddha actually started Buddhism as a Hindu
• 59:28
  S13: in rejection of the fundamental idea that the Hindu believes,
• 59:32
  S13: which is that the self is God. Buddha said there
• 59:35
  S13: is no self. Well, you can't get more different than that.
• 59:38
  S13: And to say that Buddhists and Hindus believe essentially the
• 59:41
  S13: same thing is to disrespect thousands of years of both
• 59:44
  S13: Hindu and Buddhist traditions. So rather than disrespect them, why
• 59:48
  S13: don't we lovingly come to a common to to a
• 59:50
  S13: statement that we can disagree agreeably and say, what is
• 59:54
  S13: the truth? Not what is my truth? Because what is
• 59:57
  S13: my truth? Insults other other faiths. It doesn't compliment them.
• 1:00:01
  S4: Alma. First time caller from Chicago. Thanks for calling in.
• 1:00:04
  S4: Give us your question for Abdu Murray.
• 1:00:06
  S15: Hi. Good morning. Um, yes, this question is for Abdu. Um,
• 1:00:10
  S15: you mentioned the honor culture, um, a little earlier, especially
• 1:00:15
  S15: in the biblical era. Um, as you having been raised
• 1:00:18
  S15: in that same culture that, that in any way, shape
• 1:00:21
  S15: your view of the Bible or the way you interpret it.
• 1:00:25
  S13: Oh, I'm so glad you asked, alma, because absolutely it did.
• 1:00:28
  S13: Let me give you an example of how the Bible
• 1:00:30
  S13: can really bake your noodle. If you really look at
• 1:00:32
  S13: the the belief systems that it's addressing at the same time.
• 1:00:36
  S13: So we have this parable in Matthew chapter 20. We
• 1:00:39
  S13: have this parable of the generous employer where Jesus says,
• 1:00:43
  S13: this is how God's sovereign grace works, is that there's
• 1:00:45
  S13: these guys who are out there who are day laborers.
• 1:00:47
  S13: They're looking for work that day. And then, uh, the, the, the,
• 1:00:51
  S13: the master of a vineyard, who was the proxy for
• 1:00:53
  S13: God in this parable, goes out and says, hey, I'll
• 1:00:56
  S13: take you, you and you. And they negotiate for a, um,
• 1:01:00
  S13: a denarius worth of work for that day. And they
• 1:01:03
  S13: say that's a fair wage. And they go and they
• 1:01:05
  S13: work in the guy's vineyard for the whole day. Then
• 1:01:07
  S13: the master goes out a second time and a third
• 1:01:10
  S13: time and a fourth time and a the fifth time
• 1:01:12
  S13: to hire these laborers now in back then, just as today,
• 1:01:16
  S13: if you don't get hired in the morning, you're not
• 1:01:18
  S13: going to get hired at all. So they go home
• 1:01:20
  S13: in shame, in an honor and shame culture that they
• 1:01:23
  S13: couldn't get their the get a day's wage to provide
• 1:01:28
  S13: for their families. But these guys stayed there. In fact,
• 1:01:31
  S13: the master of the vineyard says, what are you still
• 1:01:33
  S13: doing here? Why are you still here? And they said
• 1:01:36
  S13: we had held out hope that someone would give us
• 1:01:38
  S13: a day's work. So the master of the vineyard said,
• 1:01:40
  S13: go work in my in my in my vineyard for
• 1:01:42
  S13: even an hour, and I'll give you a denarius. So
• 1:01:45
  S13: the same amount of money he paid the guys who
• 1:01:47
  S13: worked all day at the end of the parable. Of course,
• 1:01:50
  S13: the first guy. The last guys get paid first. So
• 1:01:52
  S13: the so the first guy see it and they're outraged
• 1:01:54
  S13: and they say, wait a minute, we worked all day.
• 1:01:56
  S13: These guys worked one hour. You gave us the same
• 1:01:58
  S13: amount of money. That's not fair. And what does the
• 1:02:00
  S13: master of the vineyard say? The master of the vineyard,
• 1:02:02
  S13: who is God? In the parable he says, friend, can't
• 1:02:06
  S13: I do with my money what I want? I've done
• 1:02:07
  S13: you no wrong. And didn't you agree for a denarius?
• 1:02:10
  S13: It's about God's sovereign grace. The last shall be first,
• 1:02:12
  S13: and the first shall be last. But here's the cool part.
• 1:02:15
  S13: One it answers the question of God's sovereignty and human
• 1:02:18
  S13: free will. That God can be sovereign. He can say,
• 1:02:21
  S13: I will give somebody a dollar or a denarius based
• 1:02:24
  S13: on my own sovereignty. But he says to those guys,
• 1:02:28
  S13: and didn't you agree for a denarius? That's human free will.
• 1:02:33
  S13: They negotiated and they agreed of their own free will.
• 1:02:36
  S13: So God's sovereignty and human free will at the same time,
• 1:02:38
  S13: that's an East, that's a that's a sort of a
• 1:02:42
  S13: thing I get in the West, a question I get
• 1:02:44
  S13: in the West. But what's cool is this. I remember
• 1:02:47
  S13: reading this parable and someone shared it with me when
• 1:02:49
  S13: I was a Muslim, and I thought, this is a
• 1:02:50
  S13: terrible story. It's so unfair. But then I saw my
• 1:02:53
  S13: honor and shame culture reflected in it. The guys who
• 1:02:56
  S13: waited all day for a job didn't want to go
• 1:03:00
  S13: home in shame. And God, because of their faith, rewarded
• 1:03:06
  S13: them with a denarius the same day, same wage as
• 1:03:09
  S13: a full day's work, because their faith that God would
• 1:03:13
  S13: redeem them and save them from shame was credited as
• 1:03:16
  S13: if it was work. And that goes all the way
• 1:03:19
  S13: back to Genesis, where Abraham's faith was credited as righteousness,
• 1:03:24
  S13: as if it was work, for God's sake. And so
• 1:03:26
  S13: you see the Bible woven together. And when I saw that,
• 1:03:30
  S13: I was amazed that this Bible, which I thought was
• 1:03:32
  S13: a white Western sort of individualistic book, actually speaks to
• 1:03:37
  S13: my culture. And that started so many questions for me about,
• 1:03:41
  S13: oh my goodness, maybe this Bible actually speaks to my
• 1:03:44
  S13: people as well as the West. And I often put
• 1:03:46
  S13: it this way Jesus has a passport with many stamps.
• 1:03:51
  S2: Oh, this is beautiful. Abdu, how many Muslims are like
• 1:03:55
  S2: many Western Christians, I use that in air quotes that
• 1:03:58
  S2: are Muslim in name only and really don't know theology,
• 1:04:02
  S2: and they're just guided by the cultural norms.
• 1:04:06
  S13: Oh, it's, uh, it's just like every other faith system
• 1:04:09
  S13: and every other culture as well is that you have
• 1:04:10
  S13: plenty of people who are Muslim in name only because, um, there's, uh, again,
• 1:04:15
  S13: that honor and shame culture dictates that they, um, identify
• 1:04:20
  S13: culturally or, um, in terms of their society as a Muslim, which, which,
• 1:04:26
  S13: but they don't really know a deep sense of their theology.
• 1:04:29
  S13: There's a lot of them, I'd say even probably the
• 1:04:31
  S13: majority of most Muslims don't know their Quran. They know
• 1:04:34
  S13: a couple of verses, just like Christians know a couple
• 1:04:37
  S13: of verses that are that are verses for them. The
• 1:04:39
  S13: opening chapter of the Quran, the chapter 114, which is
• 1:04:43
  S13: a very short chapter of the Quran. They know those
• 1:04:45
  S13: by heart because they're required to. But, um, uh, the
• 1:04:49
  S13: deep theologies and some of the deep history they don't
• 1:04:51
  S13: really know. Um, and, uh, but they hear what they get,
• 1:04:56
  S13: what they hear. So, but they adhere to it because
• 1:04:58
  S13: there's a cultural mandate to do so. Sam Solomon, himself
• 1:05:02
  S13: a former Muslim, once put it this way in the West,
• 1:05:05
  S13: if you drew a square with a dot in the middle.
• 1:05:07
  S13: The dot is religious identity, and the square is you.
• 1:05:11
  S13: In other words, your sense of individual identity dominates. But
• 1:05:14
  S13: in the East and in the Middle East, it's exactly
• 1:05:16
  S13: the opposite. The square that surrounds the dot is religious identity,
• 1:05:21
  S13: and the dot is you. You're a small part of
• 1:05:24
  S13: the full religious identity, which explains why Muslims who are nominal,
• 1:05:28
  S13: who might, you know, be Muslim in name only, will
• 1:05:31
  S13: engage with you in a sort of verbal death match
• 1:05:35
  S13: over whether or not Christianity or Islam is true. Even
• 1:05:38
  S13: though they don't practice it, they don't pray the five
• 1:05:40
  S13: daily prayers, but they would still engage in this, in this,
• 1:05:42
  S13: in this debate with you, because it's part of their identity.
• 1:05:46
  S13: They have an obligation to maintain it in an honor
• 1:05:49
  S13: and shame culture. And that's that's why the barriers can
• 1:05:52
  S13: be so big no matter what they know or don't know.
• 1:05:54
  S2: Is it harder to reach the dot or the square?
• 1:05:58
  S13: Wow. Uh huh. Um, it really does depend, because sometimes
• 1:06:03
  S13: I have to convince people who claim to be Christians
• 1:06:05
  S13: that they're not, um, in order to like, tell them
• 1:06:08
  S13: this is who Christ really is.
• 1:06:09
  S2: And they think, Amen.
• 1:06:11
  S13: You know. And so sometimes the dot is really hard
• 1:06:13
  S13: to convert because the dot thinks they're the square. Um, um,
• 1:06:17
  S13: but I think oftentimes it's hard to convince. It's hard
• 1:06:20
  S13: to convince the square, um, because there's not a rational
• 1:06:25
  S13: reason to attend to that religious system. It's a personal reason.
• 1:06:30
  S13: There's intense consequences. There are identity issues. If I stop
• 1:06:34
  S13: being a Muslim, then who am I? And when you
• 1:06:36
  S13: change your religious system in an eastern Middle Eastern culture, um,
• 1:06:41
  S13: it is one of the greatest sins you can you
• 1:06:43
  S13: can commit for the culture. You might as well drop
• 1:06:45
  S13: a grenade into someone's living room. That's how much damage
• 1:06:48
  S13: is done. Oftentimes when they convert to a different system
• 1:06:50
  S13: of belief, including Christianity. So it isn't the intellectual issues,
• 1:06:55
  S13: it's the consequences of what people hold on to, uh,
• 1:06:59
  S13: that are often the real barrier. So my job as
• 1:07:01
  S13: an apologist is to remove the intellectual barriers so people
• 1:07:05
  S13: can see the real thing that's keeping them from becoming
• 1:07:08
  S13: a Christ follower.
• 1:07:09
  S4: Abdu Murray, our guest expert taking questions on faith, reason, culture, religion.
• 1:07:14
  S4: Oh boy. This is.
• 1:07:15
  S3: Good.
• 1:07:16
  S4: Texted brace. If you want more, embrace to 805 557898.
• 1:07:22
  S4: Embrace to 805 557898. Coming up, I'm going to tell
• 1:07:27
  S4: you a couple of text messages that come in. We'll
• 1:07:30
  S4: get to both of them if we have time. How
• 1:07:32
  S4: do we reconcile? God is omnipresent, but hell is separation
• 1:07:36
  S4: from God. We'll tackle that one. Plus, who are the
• 1:07:39
  S4: descendants of Ishmael? More coming up here on Carl and crew.
• 1:07:44
  S1: You've got questions. They've got answers. It's Ask the Experts
• 1:07:48
  S1: Week with Carl and Crew.
• 1:07:49
  S14: Our guest expert this morning.
• 1:07:51
  S4: Abdu Murray, has been tackling questions on faith, reason, culture, religion.
• 1:07:56
  S4: How about this one? Who are the descendants of Ishmael.
• 1:07:59
  S13: Yeah. So this kind of depends on who is responding
• 1:08:03
  S13: to the question. Muslims will say that they are that
• 1:08:06
  S13: Arabs are the descendants of Ishmael, and it goes through
• 1:08:09
  S13: Hagar or Hagar and her line because she's Egyptian and
• 1:08:15
  S13: they go through. Uh, so a Muslim would say that, um,
• 1:08:19
  S13: because Ishmael is the father of the Arabs, as even
• 1:08:22
  S13: is prophesied in Genesis 16. And all these things, a
• 1:08:25
  S13: great nation comes from him. And so because she's Egyptian, uh,
• 1:08:29
  S13: Hagar is the Arabs come from that line. And they're
• 1:08:33
  S13: from Muhammad as a prophet essentially is a prophet in
• 1:08:37
  S13: the line of the great prophets, including Ishmael's father, Abraham.
• 1:08:41
  S13: And so that is a sense to legitimize Muhammad's office
• 1:08:45
  S13: as prophet, even though he's an Arab and outside the
• 1:08:48
  S13: family of the Jews, um, or the Hebrews at that point. Uh,
• 1:08:52
  S13: so that would be, that would be the claim. Now,
• 1:08:54
  S13: whether or not this is actually genetically proven or not
• 1:08:58
  S13: is it's a matter of great dispute. It really is.
• 1:09:00
  S13: But here's the thing that's interesting, just for our purposes
• 1:09:03
  S13: and really quickly, is that let's assume for a moment
• 1:09:06
  S13: the Arabs are the descendants of Ishmael and that Islam
• 1:09:11
  S13: in some way has some kind of a root ethnically,
• 1:09:14
  S13: let's say, because Islam is an originally Arab religion. Um,
• 1:09:19
  S13: let's assume that's true. The the thing that's beautiful about
• 1:09:22
  S13: this is that at some point, Genesis actually describes the
• 1:09:27
  S13: Ishmael and his progeny as being free people who are
• 1:09:31
  S13: at odds, it seems, with the surrounding people around them,
• 1:09:33
  S13: but really are free because the because Hagar, they're their mother,
• 1:09:38
  S13: essentially as an Egyptian, was bound as a slave or
• 1:09:41
  S13: a servant to Sarah before she had children, and even after.
• 1:09:46
  S13: So the promise to Ishmael and his descendants is that
• 1:09:49
  S13: you will be free, not that you will be constantly
• 1:09:51
  S13: in opposition, but opposition happens because of freedom, in distinction
• 1:09:54
  S13: to your mother, who was a servant. So there's a
• 1:09:57
  S13: blessing actually being given there. So that those same people
• 1:10:01
  S13: will have the freedom to actually see that a descendancy
• 1:10:05
  S13: from Abraham, whether it's ethnic or not, is actually a blessing,
• 1:10:09
  S13: because they are being pointed towards the Messiah, who is
• 1:10:13
  S13: the whole point of Abraham's blessing to be the father
• 1:10:18
  S13: of many nations. And so instead of seeing them as
• 1:10:21
  S13: our enemy, we should see the descendants of Ishmael as
• 1:10:24
  S13: people who are promised that the Messiah will be for
• 1:10:28
  S13: them as well.
• 1:10:29
  S4: Abdu Murray, our guest this morning. You can text the
• 1:10:32
  S4: word embrace to 805 557898 for more details 805 557898.
• 1:10:40
  S4: Just text embrace back to the text message question. How
• 1:10:44
  S4: do we reconcile that God is omnipresent, but hell is
• 1:10:47
  S4: separation from God?
• 1:10:49
  S13: Yeah. And this comes down to how we have to
• 1:10:51
  S13: clarify our terms sometimes, and this is very important, is
• 1:10:55
  S13: that presence. We have to understand there are two forms
• 1:10:58
  S13: of presence. One form of presence is what theologians have
• 1:11:01
  S13: called in classical Christianity, God's essential presence. And there's also
• 1:11:06
  S13: his relational or gracious presence. God's essential presence is that
• 1:11:10
  S13: he is, in fact, omnipresent because he is the source
• 1:11:13
  S13: of all creation. He is not a being among beings.
• 1:11:17
  S13: He is the source of all being, and therefore as
• 1:11:20
  S13: the source of all being, he is essentially present everywhere.
• 1:11:24
  S13: Everything is sustained by him. And since we do believe
• 1:11:27
  S13: that God sustains all things that exist, and people who
• 1:11:31
  S13: are in hell in fact exist, he is therefore sustaining
• 1:11:34
  S13: even their existence in that sense. So he is essentially
• 1:11:37
  S13: present even in a state of hell. But his relational presence,
• 1:11:42
  S13: the presence where we can feel him and understand him
• 1:11:45
  S13: and have communion with him that is absent. He withholds
• 1:11:48
  S13: that because we have rejected it, and so in hell
• 1:11:53
  S13: we don't feel his relational or gracious presence. We simply.
• 1:11:57
  S13: We just don't feel it. And in that sense, it
• 1:11:59
  S13: also masks our ability to feel his essential presence. He
• 1:12:03
  S13: is there. He's just not there in relationship with those
• 1:12:06
  S13: who have chosen rejection of relationship with God. So as C.S.
• 1:12:11
  S13: Lewis has famously put it in a summarization, hell is
• 1:12:14
  S13: sort of locked from the inside. And it's not that
• 1:12:16
  S13: God puts people there at the end of the end
• 1:12:19
  S13: of the world. When we are judged, God, there will
• 1:12:22
  S13: be two people, those who will say to God, thy
• 1:12:25
  S13: will be done, and there will be those to whom
• 1:12:27
  S13: God said, thy will be done, and they will get
• 1:12:29
  S13: what they want. And if they wanted separation from his
• 1:12:32
  S13: relational presence, they'll get that. But God is essentially everywhere.
• 1:12:37
  S13: So his omnipresent and his essentialness he is absent in
• 1:12:40
  S13: hell in terms of his relationship or his graciousness to
• 1:12:43
  S13: those people because they've rejected it.
• 1:12:46
  S2: Abdu Murray. Our guest. This is epic, guys. If you're
• 1:12:49
  S2: getting this going, Where can I get more texts? The
• 1:12:52
  S2: word embrace to 800 555, 7898. I'm talking videos that
• 1:12:58
  S2: highlight top 20 questions he's answered on university campuses in
• 1:13:03
  S2: adversarial situations. Epic content text embrace to 805 557898. Abdu,
• 1:13:11
  S2: I don't know if you're covenant or dispensational. And frankly,
• 1:13:14
  S2: those brackets are too constricting in my view. Uh, but
• 1:13:18
  S2: where do you see modern Israel versus ancient Israel today?
• 1:13:24
  S13: Well, um, a couple of things. Is that the first
• 1:13:26
  S13: thing I want to make sure I understand, I push
• 1:13:28
  S13: all this from a biblical anthropology, and that anthropology tells
• 1:13:31
  S13: me that all human beings are sinners. Uh, ancient Israel
• 1:13:34
  S13: was full of people who were sinners, but also people
• 1:13:36
  S13: who did wonderful things. So when those people sinned, they
• 1:13:40
  S13: were judged. And we also have and they repented. Um,
• 1:13:44
  S13: and when they did the right thing, God rewarded them
• 1:13:46
  S13: and applauded them. And so we ought to do the
• 1:13:48
  S13: same thing. So modern Israel is a country run by
• 1:13:52
  S13: people who are essentially or it's beset with a sinful condition.
• 1:13:57
  S13: So when they sin, we should criticize. When they do right,
• 1:14:00
  S13: we should applaud, just like I do with myself and
• 1:14:03
  S13: any other country. Having said that, how I look at
• 1:14:06
  S13: this is that if Israel exists by God's by by
• 1:14:10
  S13: God's providence, it exists for a purpose, and that is
• 1:14:12
  S13: to point people to the Messiah. Um, ultimately, the God
• 1:14:16
  S13: of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the God of Israel,
• 1:14:20
  S13: and that Israel definitely needs to understand who their Messiah is.
• 1:14:24
  S13: And it's Jesus who is from their line. And Israel
• 1:14:28
  S13: should exist to be a beacon and a light to
• 1:14:31
  S13: the world about who the Messiah is. And so that's
• 1:14:35
  S13: the ultimate fulfillment. And that's how the church should act,
• 1:14:38
  S13: as well as a beacon to who the Messiah is.
• 1:14:40
  S13: So that's kind of how I see it.
• 1:14:41
  S2: I love it, yeah. I'm my conviction, growing conviction is
• 1:14:44
  S2: that Israel It's Abraham, the father of all who believe
• 1:14:49
  S2: Abraham is. It's. It's a portal into saving connection with
• 1:14:55
  S2: a loving God. And that's the greatest message that they carry.
• 1:15:00
  S2: They carried. And that goes on today. Couple of questions
• 1:15:03
  S2: here that are similar that are call ins here. Uh,
• 1:15:06
  S2: so I'm going to give Ellie the floor from Aurora, Illinois. Ellie. Uh,
• 1:15:10
  S2: what's your question?
• 1:15:12
  S16: Hi. Good morning. Um, I have a son who's a
• 1:15:15
  S16: senior in high school who has been evangelizing his friends
• 1:15:19
  S16: and really just stepping out. He's at public high school.
• 1:15:23
  S16: There's several Muslims at our high school because we're in
• 1:15:25
  S16: a big Indian area. And one of his friends kind
• 1:15:30
  S16: of jokingly expressed interest coming to church, but then used
• 1:15:34
  S16: the caveat, well, you're not going to convert me. I'm
• 1:15:36
  S16: just going to come for fun. What would you suggest
• 1:15:39
  S16: for my son as a way to reach his Muslim friends,
• 1:15:43
  S16: given the fact that, as you were talking earlier about
• 1:15:46
  S16: the square and the dot, you know that cultural fear
• 1:15:49
  S16: of going against it. What would you how would you
• 1:15:51
  S16: encourage him to reach his his friend?
• 1:15:54
  S13: I am absolutely thrilled that he's doing this. And I'll
• 1:15:58
  S13: and I'll tell you his his friend who jokingly said,
• 1:16:02
  S13: he'll come to church. And if he does say, you're
• 1:16:03
  S13: not going to convert me, I got to tell you,
• 1:16:05
  S13: that sounds not vaguely, but strangely familiar. I said the
• 1:16:09
  S13: same things. I did the exact same stuff. And a
• 1:16:12
  S13: Muslim coming to church at all is actually kind of
• 1:16:15
  S13: a big deal. So don't don't discount that his attitude
• 1:16:19
  S13: about sort of a resistance to these things is, um,
• 1:16:23
  S13: a shield in some way that can't be penetrated. The
• 1:16:26
  S13: fact that he's willing to come at all is kind
• 1:16:27
  S13: of a big deal. So your son's doing the right thing.
• 1:16:30
  S13: He's becoming aromatic. He's becoming the effervescence of Christ such
• 1:16:34
  S13: that someone could say, I'll go to church. You won't
• 1:16:36
  S13: convert me, but I'll go to church. Well, it took
• 1:16:38
  S13: me nine years to become a Christian, and it didn't
• 1:16:41
  S13: take me nine years because the answers were hard to find.
• 1:16:44
  S13: It took me nine years because the answers were hard
• 1:16:46
  S13: to accept, and it was a bunch of Christians over
• 1:16:50
  S13: time who witnessed to me, who gave me great reasons
• 1:16:54
  S13: not only to believe what the Bible was saying was true,
• 1:16:57
  S13: but that they were living it out. So your son
• 1:16:59
  S13: may be one link in a long chain that essentially
• 1:17:03
  S13: connects Muslims to Christ, including this guy. So ten years
• 1:17:06
  S13: from now, he might come to faith and he'll have
• 1:17:09
  S13: your son to thank for introducing him to the church
• 1:17:12
  S13: life in the first place. So it's not that conversion
• 1:17:15
  S13: will happen immediately, but it's just keep it up. Because
• 1:17:18
  S13: if he is doing this and they think, I'll go
• 1:17:20
  S13: to church, don't worry about the seeming resistance. Oftentimes I'll
• 1:17:23
  S13: tell you this real quick. The more times people seem resistant,
• 1:17:26
  S13: the more you're getting to them. That's what I did.
• 1:17:29
  S13: I got more resistant the more they were actually getting
• 1:17:31
  S13: to me. So take heart and keep it up.
• 1:17:34
  S2: That's Agrippa esque. You know, we don't know if he's
• 1:17:37
  S2: going to turn, but boy, you got to Pauline theology
• 1:17:40
  S2: would say, put it out there. You don't know what
• 1:17:42
  S2: God's going to do.