Latest / The Diary of a CFO / How executive hiring decisions are made (with Amy Sulgrove)

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How executive hiring decisions are made (with Amy Sulgrove) · The Diary of a CFO

0:02
Welcome back to another episode of the Diary
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of a CFO Podcast, the space where you will find
0:09
real -world insights to become a better leader
0:11
and be better at life. I'm your host, Waseya
0:13
Kaman, and today I'm so delighted to have with
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me a special guest, Amy Saul -Grove. She is the
0:19
founder of Talent Executives, a recruitment firm
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that prides itself in only finding top -tier
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talent. or its company clients, but also provides
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comprehensive career support for job seekers,
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including resume crafting, interview success
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coaching, and career consultation. Welcome to
0:37
the show, Amy. Thank you so much. Thank you.
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I'm happy to be here today. Thank you for having
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me. Of course. Of course. I love your content
0:46
on LinkedIn. And so I'm so glad we get to have
0:49
this conversation today. But before we get started,
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would you please tell us about your career journey
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to where you are now? Sure, absolutely. I actually
0:58
was the national recruiting manager for a major
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financial services company in the US. Moved into
1:04
outside sales for a while and honestly, I truly
1:07
missed the hunt. We've often been described as
1:10
a sniper and that's what I truly love. I feel
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like recruiting is a puzzle and it's finding
1:17
the very best fit, not just the person that's
1:20
looking for a role. In 2018, I founded talent
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executives and got back to what I truly love.
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That's amazing. And when I checked your website,
1:30
there was something that caught my eyes was we
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don't just feel positions, we solve hiring problems.
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You know how recruiters have a lot of bad rep,
1:39
but you obviously don't. So mind sharing what
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makes you guys different. Absolutely. I'll sum
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it up with the word relationships. And that is
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truly our core. So building a relationship, a
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partnership, treating people the way that we
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want to be treated, it all boils down to communication
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and respect. That's really what we're based on.
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So in a world where we feel like... you're submitting
2:05
a resume and it ends up in the dark hole somewhere,
2:09
AI is probably screening it. Maybe recruiters
2:11
look at it, you're not sure. But all you know
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is that you're not getting the interviews, you're
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not getting the calls. What would you advise
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candidates in that situation? So as far as AI
2:21
screening applications, you're definitely going
2:23
to want to make sure that you use standard job
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titles. What I mean about that is oftentimes
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a company will have a unique way to craft a job
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title or a unique title for you, use a standard
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job title. Recruiters will be searching off standard
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job titles. You also want to make sure that you
2:44
have your qualifications updated. So let's say
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you're looking for a CFO role. My suggestion
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would be go out and look on LinkedIn at different
2:55
CFO roles. Make sure that if there's qualifications,
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in those roles that you do not have listed on
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your resume or on your LinkedIn, but you actually
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have, make sure to update that. Those are going
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to be key skills that recruiters will be searching
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for. In addition to that, make sure that you're
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showing clear value by using metrics wherever
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appropriate or wherever available. What I mean
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by that is percentages, whole numbers. Those
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are things that recruiters will actually scan
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and those items pop out. So numbers are huge.
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And in addition to just submitting your resume
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into quote the black hole of resumes, I highly
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suggest that after you submit your resume, you
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search for the hiring manager or the recruiter.
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And there's tools that you can use to actually
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find their email addresses, email them directly.
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And when you email them, don't submit a cover
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letter that's three paragraphs long attached
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with your resume. People aren't going to read
4:03
that these days. There's so many applicants and
4:05
so many candidates. Keep it brief. Keep it simple.
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Send an email, maybe three or four lines introducing
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yourself and thanking them for the opportunity
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to present your email or your resume and present
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your resume to them in an email. There's great
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websites out there as well as Google Chrome.
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add -ins that you can use to find the email addresses
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of the hiring managers and of the recruiters.
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Great tips. Thank you so much. Now, what are
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some of those websites so we can make a list
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as we go? Absolutely. Some of the websites that
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I love to use, Signal Hire is probably my favorite.
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It's actually not a website. It's a Chrome plugin,
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but it allows you for free five credits per month.
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of email searches, and it actually also finds
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phone numbers, but I probably would not be calling
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the individual. I would probably send them an
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email. A few of the others are Hunter IO, Clearbit
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Connect, Aplead, and Rocket Reach. I've got some
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others as well listed on our website under our
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premier resources. However, Most of these that
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I just listed are free resources. They do allow
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up to about five credits per month each. So the
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way that I suggest doing it is don't waste them.
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Go through the signal hire, use your five credits
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and then move on to the next one so that you
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have free credits throughout the month. But the
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job seekers that we coach. have been completely
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floored at even realizing that this is out there
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because they had no idea they were constantly
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sending it their resumes to the black hole and
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now they can actually follow up and use a process.
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So really just even walking them through a clear
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process of how to apply for jobs, not just slinging
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their resumes right and left and throwing them
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into the black hole, but actually being more
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intentional about who they're sending it to and
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what roles they're applying for has been game
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changing. Wow. I can only imagine. I didn't know
6:14
about them. Thank you so much for sharing. So
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what would you say are some of the LinkedIn profile
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or maybe online presence tips that people should
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be aware that they should also upgrade to be
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able to stand out? Maybe some things that we
6:29
overlook, because I'm assuming once you send
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that resume, the person will look you up somewhere
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besides your resume. So what is that process?
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Very good assumption. And you're absolutely correct.
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The first thing that I would actually do is really
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ensure that your LinkedIn profile sections are
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completely up to date. That will more than likely
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be the first place that recruiters and hiring
6:51
managers look. So as far as your contact information,
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you're going to want to make sure on your LinkedIn
6:58
profile that you put your email address as visible
7:02
to the public. And the reason being is that if
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you are not a first connection with the recruiter,
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the recruiter very well may not have access to
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your actual email address. And they only have
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a limited number of in -mails that they can send
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on a monthly basis. So I highly suggest that
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your email address is set to public. And that
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is not just when you apply for a position, but
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there's recruiters that are searching. You might
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not even know the role is open. However, you
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might be perfect for it. And a recruiter may
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reach directly out to you, but be unable to because
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they don't have your email address. So make sure
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that you set your email address to public. Also
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your headline, your headline is right below your
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name. Keep it simple and solve a problem. Let
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people know what you do. Don't make them have
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to read through your entire profile to understand
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what you do. So explain the problem that you
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saw in your about section, which is just below
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that. Only the first two to three lines are seen
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without clicking on it and expanding it. So make
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sure those first two to three lines are impactful.
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Make sure that they're not fluff. Make sure that
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they actually have meaning and that it allows
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the recruiter or the hiring manager to want to
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click and expand it and read more about you.
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That particular section really should be about
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you, not necessarily about the company that you
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work for. But what is it that makes you different
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and unique? As far as location, be specific.
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Do not just say United States. Recruiters will
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be searching by location. Put a major Metroplex.
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Put something in there that if a recruiter is
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searching, they don't overlook you because they
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have no idea where you even are. Oh, wow. Along
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with that, make sure that you are focusing on
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getting your LinkedIn connections built up to
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at least 500 people. This shows recruiters that
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you're truly a known quantity and that you mean
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business and that you are experienced, that you're
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not brand new to networking and brand new to
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the job world. Above all, keep your LinkedIn
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profile updated. And the reason I say this is
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that many people focus on updating their resume,
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but they don't necessarily update their LinkedIn.
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And what most people don't know is if you apply
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for a role, through LinkedIn by submitting your
9:35
resume, a recruiter will actually see your LinkedIn
9:38
profile before they even see the resume. So what
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I mean by that is you submit your resume, your
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LinkedIn profile comes up, and we actually have
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to go in and click your resume in order to download
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it and open it. If your LinkedIn profile does
9:53
not look impressive and does not show us what
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you do, we very well may not take the next step
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to download your resume and open it up. So make
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sure that LinkedIn profile, especially if you're
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applying through LinkedIn, is up to date. Wow.
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Wow. That's so eye opening. Thank you so much,
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Amy, because I'm so grateful to have you here
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because we often only see things through our
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lenses and we don't see what you see on your
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side as a recruiter. So thank you so much for
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sharing these gems. So my next question has to
10:26
do with candidates who want to apply for senior
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leadership roles. So a lot of time you will see
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someone's career, they were like staff accounting,
10:35
one, two, three, then senior, then one, two,
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three. And so how do you stand out to show that
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you are next level ready for recruiters? Because
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sometimes you have to present candidate that
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may not have those titles before, but want one
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of those roles. We do this all the time. Part
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of our company actually writes resumes and LinkedIn
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profiles. And so when we do that, we actually
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interview the candidate and get a really good
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understanding not only of what they've done in
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the past, but what they're looking to do in the
11:07
future and what that next level, what that next
11:10
role is. And we write the resume towards that.
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So keep in mind that although a resume is a listing
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and an understanding of what you've done in the
11:19
past, a summary, it should also be written towards
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what you want to do. It should be a summary of
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what you've done in the past, but you should
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not stop there. It really should also be a focus
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on what you want to do in the future. And so
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that first paragraph in your resume really should
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list and give a very good summary of the transferable
11:38
skills that you have leading you into the next
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role. I always say simple things that people
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overlook, especially if they're going into a
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higher level role, but really any role. make
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sure that your resume and your LinkedIn profile
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are in proper tense. It drives me crazy when
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I look at resume or LinkedIn profile and they
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just added the new role to it, but they did not
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change the tense of the role prior. It's not
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past tense. It's still present tense, but it
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happened previously. And that those are simple
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things that you need to make sure that you are
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showing yourself as organized and paying attention
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to detail because If you're not paying attention
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to the detail of how you present yourself, you're
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definitely not going to be paying attention to
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the detail in a company. Wow. Ensure your formatting
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is consistent throughout your entire profile
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and resume. Use numbers, use data, and use metrics.
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Those are gold. Okay. Make sure that you have
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any recognition awards listed. Sometimes people
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think it might not be a big deal, but they are.
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So make sure that you're listing the recognition,
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the awards. even list team development and promotions.
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All of those will really add to the executive
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presence and showing the attention to detail,
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which is key. Nice. Now, in terms of executive
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presence, I feel like it's a term that is often
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used, but we don't really know what it really
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means. How does it show, not just in the person
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resume, but also how they present themselves
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in an interview? Absolutely. You would be surprised
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that I've actually interviewed people that have
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had a ball cap on. I've interviewed people that
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maybe have a sweatshirt on. It's really interesting.
13:23
The way that you show up for your interview truly
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shows the way that you're going to show up in
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your work. And I firmly believe that. So not
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only the way that you show up to your interview,
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but the way that you follow up from your interview.
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A candidate that follows up before the end of
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the day in an email will absolutely be ranked
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higher than a candidate that does not. So especially
13:46
if you're neck and neck with another candidate.
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Make sure that you're following up at the end
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of an interview or after the interview. Make
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sure that you put in a key point that was talked
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about in the interview. Do not just send a generic
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thank you letter. Make it personal. The other
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thing, and I know you touched on this earlier,
14:03
is a Google search. Before somebody's hired,
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they will most likely be vetted through social
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media these days. And when that happens, you
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want to make sure that you're showing up properly
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in, let's say, Facebook, Instagram. Absolutely
14:18
your LinkedIn profile photo. I once had somebody
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apply to a position and they had a picture of
14:25
themselves in a bathroom as their LinkedIn profile
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picture. Don't even put that on Facebook as a
14:31
LinkedIn profile, or as a Facebook profile picture.
14:34
Make sure that you are showing that you have
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professional presence throughout social media
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and I would absolutely watch what you're posting.
14:42
Wow. Yes, let's dive into that one, what you
14:44
posting. So again, if we're thinking about candidates
14:47
that either want to be next level ready or candidates
14:50
who are already at those levels, what kind of
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things should they be posting? What tone? Like
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what's the right sauce, the right balance? The
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secret sauce. The secret sauce. I think we often
15:00
tell our children that they need to surround
15:02
themselves with the people that are positive
15:04
influence and that don't give them a negative
15:08
connotation. So it's the same thing with adults,
15:11
it's the same thing with work. You want to be
15:14
surrounding yourself with a similar network with
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the type of people that you want to work with.
15:18
If you want to potentially take a CFO role, start
15:22
networking with people in the CFO Alliance. You
15:25
know, start attending events in your area, whether
15:28
or not they are in person. And if you don't have
15:31
in -person events, do virtual events. But truly
15:34
building that network and connections is key.
15:37
You never know where that connection is going
15:39
to lead. And one person at an event can truly
15:42
be life changing in terms of where that relationship
15:45
is going to go and what opportunities it might
15:48
lead to. So I would highly suggest posting about
15:51
networking events that you're attending, posting
15:54
about speaking engagements that you're attending,
15:57
posting about relevant information in the industry
16:00
that you're in, anything to add value, to add
16:03
education and to show people that you're part
16:06
of that community. Nice. And I think it goes
16:08
back to what you said earlier about having 500
16:11
plus connections. So why that specific number?
16:14
What is the realistic goal to do it? So you don't
16:17
feel like you spam or trying to bug people. Some
16:22
of the ways to make it easier, because networking
16:24
can feel awkward. It can feel awkward. The great
16:27
thing is, though, is that once you get into it,
16:29
it almost feeds itself and it becomes something
16:32
that you're addicted to in a weird way. It's
16:35
a positive addiction, I guess. But when I say,
16:37
you know, 500 plus connections, I think that
16:39
if you at least have 500, you at least look like
16:42
a legitimate candidate. As far as adding those
16:46
connections, I would start with adding those
16:48
people that you've worked with in the past. And
16:50
LinkedIn offers great opportunities for suggestions
16:53
with alumni's from your colleges, people that
16:56
you potentially worked with, people in the same
16:59
industry. So start using the LinkedIn suggestions
17:03
and continue to build. You know, I definitely
17:06
say add a short little blurb, a short little
17:09
note to the connection and just say, you know,
17:12
it's been a while looking forward to following
17:14
you on LinkedIn, looking forward to connecting
17:16
again. Those are always nice for people to receive.
17:19
And then in turn, it makes them want to comment
17:22
on your LinkedIn posts as well. I definitely
17:26
would not just spam. Make sure that the connections
17:30
you make are meaningful connections through LinkedIn
17:32
and people that either you can help or they can
17:34
help you and that you can actually build a business
17:38
relationship with. It's not about quantity. It's
17:41
about quality. Nice. I love it. What I'm gathering
17:44
for this. So I did in my resume, I made sure
17:47
that you had the qualification I needed. I'm
17:49
building those connections, but then I still
17:52
may not have the experience maybe that the role
17:56
may be looking for. So what time of projects
17:59
or recommendation would you give someone that's
18:02
really trying to accelerate their career? I personally
18:05
would suggest meeting with your manager, taking
18:08
on additional projects. There's also networking
18:11
communities built around different industries
18:14
and getting involved in those, whether or not
18:17
it's being a board member, whether or not it's
18:20
heading up a committee, whether or not it's taking
18:22
on special projects with your company, with your
18:26
church. Many, many industries have opportunities
18:29
and also potentially getting some additional
18:32
certifications. Certifications are available
18:35
in almost every industry, taking additional courses
18:38
that you can take in multiple industries that
18:41
don't take a ton of time, but truly offer a ton
18:45
of opportunity. And so again, it goes back to
18:47
the networking and finding people that you can
18:50
potentially get opportunities with. Nice, nice.
18:53
And so when you think about what is actually
18:57
on the resume, what do you actually say in those
19:00
networking? What are some of the things that
19:02
may make you look smaller than you should be
19:04
or some of the things that may hinder your credibility
19:07
when you show up in those networking event, when
19:09
you show up on LinkedIn, like what are those
19:12
things that you may not realize are hindering
19:14
your credibility? Absolutely. A lot of people
19:17
talk about team and team is great. Absolutely.
19:21
Collaborating with your team is great, but don't
19:22
minimize your personal worth and don't minimize
19:25
what you personally have done. So Talk about
19:29
yourself. Talk about what you've brought to the
19:31
table. When we do an interview, when we are networking,
19:33
we don't want to necessarily hear about what
19:35
the entire company has done or what the entire
19:38
team has done. We want to hear about what you
19:41
were able to do and the metrics and the numbers
19:44
that you were able to achieve. Absolutely talk
19:47
about that. So people want to know what you as
19:50
an individual bring to the table. Like, what
19:52
could be a good example of that? Because I think
19:55
it's a problem. We women, often struggle with.
19:59
We do, but we also have so many achievements
20:03
in so many areas of life. And it's about the
20:05
transferable skills as well. So talking about
20:07
women, I know this is kind of pivoting. However,
20:10
there's a lot of women that have been looking
20:12
and are looking at coming back into the workforce
20:14
after they've taken time off with their children
20:17
and they feel like they don't know where to even
20:19
begin. There's so many transferable skills that
20:22
they have had raising their family, working on
20:25
finances. the list is very long and it's a matter
20:29
of pivoting those transferable skills into a
20:32
role that uses the same skills and getting an
20:36
opportunity. So there's women all day long that
20:39
we've worked with that it's amazing when they
20:41
look at, they think about what their resume is.
20:44
And then we really worked through talking about
20:47
all of the skills that they've gained. And all
20:49
of a sudden they look at a resume and they're
20:51
like, wow, I had no idea I even did all of this.
20:54
It's a matter of the way that you present yourself
20:57
as well, like you were talking about, and I truly
21:00
post on it all the time, but I truly say that
21:03
networking is a game changer. It is. I mean,
21:06
it changed my life because a couple years ago,
21:09
I was posting on LinkedIn, connected with somebody
21:11
at the AICPA. They invited me into an invitation
21:15
only event and there I met a lady and actually
21:18
a group of ladies. We did our finance sisterhood
21:20
and one of them connected me with a person who
21:23
connected me with your person, with any recruiter
21:25
who led me to a VP role and now a CFO role. And
21:30
it all started a couple of years ago, like you
21:32
said, hanging out with other CFOs, making those
21:35
connections in real life. at those events, you
21:38
really have to be out there for those opportunities
21:41
to come your way. But then my husband is an introvert.
21:44
So he's like, Waseya, it's easy for you because
21:46
you're an extrovert and you feed off people's
21:49
energy. You suck our energy and you're like,
21:50
yes, let's go. When you think about introverts,
21:53
it's hard. Like what advice may you have for
21:55
them? Because it is something that's needed.
21:59
And it is hard. And I'm an extrovert, but even
22:01
myself starting to go to the networking events,
22:04
it's a struggle. And you get to the parking lot
22:06
and you think, Do I really want to go inside
22:08
the door? Maybe I'll just turn around, but don't
22:11
turn around. Yes, go inside. And you know what
22:13
I suggest? Take a sidekick with you. Take somebody
22:17
that is your buddy, your networking buddy, and
22:20
attend events together. And to me, I feel like
22:23
when you do that, don't stick together the entire
22:25
time. Walk the room. But when you get into an
22:28
awkward situation and you look around and there's
22:31
nobody next to you that you know. and there's
22:33
nobody that you can talk to, go back and find
22:35
your home base. Find the person that you brought
22:37
with you and connect with them. And then they'll
22:40
introduce you to people that they met at the
22:41
event. And truly what ends up happening is the
22:45
more events that you go to, the more people you
22:47
see over and over and you start building relationships
22:51
with them. And before you know it, you know,
22:53
five, 10 people in the room and it doesn't feel
22:56
like an awkward situation. I definitely suggest
22:59
finding that sidekick that will go with you.
23:01
and using that buddy as a home base. Oh, I love
23:05
it. I love it. We'll use a buddy because I myself
23:08
extrovert. Yes, I go to a event and I'm tired.
23:10
I recently attended a conference in L .A. And
23:13
by day three, I was like, I want to be home.
23:15
I want to be in front of the computer, in front
23:17
of spreadsheet. I want to see Excel. Like, I
23:19
didn't want to see people. I don't want to talk
23:22
to anybody. I know. I hear you. I hear you. The
23:25
buddy really does work. I think it's a game changer,
23:28
especially when just getting out to network.
23:31
And the other thing is, is your buddy can also
23:33
be searching to figure out what networking is
23:36
available, what networking groups have come up,
23:38
et cetera, and opportunities. And so the two
23:41
of you can sit down, have coffee and share notes
23:44
as far as what events you're going to be going
23:46
to. And it really is nice to really have a partner
23:48
in crime when you're going into these events.
23:51
That is such a great tip. Thank you so much,
23:53
Amy. Now, what would you say are some of the
23:55
things that In general, we're thinking about
23:58
AI, thinking over jobs and things like that.
24:01
What have you seen in the recruiting space? Do
24:03
you see a higher demand for people or is it the
24:07
same as before? Like, what have you been observing
24:09
on the market? You know, I think it changes a
24:12
little bit throughout the year. We are seeing
24:14
a hiring increase right now, which is great.
24:17
Earlier this year, we did see a deficit in technology
24:21
related roles. They're still not to the levels
24:24
that we'd like to see them at. but they're starting
24:26
to come back some. In addition to that, healthcare
24:29
has been on the rise. So healthcare, yes, AI
24:34
is going to help in definite ways with healthcare,
24:38
but we still are going to need the nurses. We're
24:40
still going to need the doctors. We're still
24:42
going to need physicians, et cetera. And so healthcare
24:45
truly, especially as our demographics are living
24:50
longer, people are aging and living longer. the
24:53
healthcare world has definitely skyrocketed.
24:56
There's multiple different industries. Hospitality
24:58
has actually increased as well. Finance, there's
25:02
a shortage of accountants right now. I'm sure
25:04
that everybody has heard about that. Accountants
25:07
do need to go to school longer than the average
25:10
person and sometimes the compensation is not
25:14
there. For that reason, we are actually seeing
25:18
a high demand in that particular area and not
25:21
as many job seekers as we'd like to see. So that's
25:25
definitely an area that we in general overall
25:29
are going to need to start tapping in and figuring
25:31
out how we can entice younger aged individuals
25:36
to go into the accounting profession. That's
25:38
a big debate right now, because I think it was
25:41
75 % of CPAs are currently retiring and there
25:44
is like almost no replacement. But when you think
25:47
about the additional work you have to do, certifications
25:50
at the CPA, and you also think about the compensation,
25:54
you just brought it up, is if... We're not compensating
25:58
them at a certain level. Why would they come?
26:00
So are you finding yourself in those conversations
26:02
with a hiring manager going, hey, you need to
26:05
bump this pay if you want to have more talent
26:07
applying? Absolutely, especially because a lot
26:11
of what we're having to do is find passive job
26:14
seekers. And so what that means is we're really
26:17
hunting and finding people that are currently
26:19
in a role and not actively searching for a new
26:22
role. and really trying to entice them to make
26:25
the move. But oftentimes that is going to require
26:29
either higher compensation or more flexibility
26:32
in their workplace. So, you know, it might be
26:35
that one company requires them to be on site,
26:38
but another company allows them to work remote
26:40
or maybe come in once a week. And that is actually
26:43
a huge advantage to certain companies that will
26:46
allow them the flexibility. That's actually been
26:49
something that we've seen that might even trump
26:51
compensation. really just kind of thinking outside
26:54
of the box and honestly having a conversation
26:56
with the individual as well to find out what
26:59
they want. So it's not just about what the company
27:01
wants, but what is it that would make them want
27:03
to make the move? Oh, I love it. I love it. Thank
27:06
you so much for sharing it. It's so good to see
27:09
outside of my spreadsheet and the systems to
27:13
hear what's going on. And I'm sure the audience
27:15
will be so grateful to you for being on the show.
27:18
So thank you so much, Amy, for joining us today.
27:21
Thank you so much, Wessia, for having me. I appreciate
27:24
it. Of course. See you later. See you later.
27:29
That's it for today's episode of the Diary of
27:32
a CFO. Thank you so much, Amy, for being with
27:35
us and sharing such great insight into the job
27:39
market these days and what you're doing. So if
27:41
you're listening and you are looking to fill
27:43
a key executive role or building out a growing
27:45
team, Amy's team is always seeking for companies
27:48
that value long -term partnerships and are committed
27:51
to finding talent that aligns with their culture
27:53
and business goals. So reach out to her either
27:55
via LinkedIn or on the website at talentexec...
27:59
If you enjoyed the show, don't forget to leave
28:02
a review, subscribe, and also share with your
28:04
family, friends, and colleagues. If you have
28:06
any topic you'd like me to cover in the future,
28:09
you can email it at ask at thedariothecfo .com.
28:13
Again, the email address is ask at thedariothecfo
28:16
.com. See you soon.