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My Brain Was Never Broken · Death Before Decay

• speaker-1: Welcome back to ⁓ the Death Before Decay podcast. Today it's just John and I. And hey how are you? speaker-0: Yeah. I'm doing well. Excellent. Sorry I didn't want to interrupt your intro. Keep going. speaker-1: You're good, you're good. ⁓ I mean it it fits with the topic 'cause today we're gonna talk about ADHD, mental health, and learning how to work with your with your own head in a system that maybe doesn't like fit the model of how you would like things to go. And honestly, I really wasn't even sure I wanted to do an episode like this, to be honest with you. ⁓ speaker-0: Yeah. ⁓ I can see that. speaker-1: I mean, I'm pretty open about it. speaker-0: As my yeah ⁓ speaker-1: ⁓ you know, I've when I was a kid I was diagnosed with ADHD and depression issues and things like that. And it's not like really a secret, but I also feel like it's become this hot like topic, like slash clickbait on the internet. And maybe I'm just fed it more often because I have it and I stop and watch those videos, but it almost is coming off as cringy. speaker-0: I can see that. I I also was diagnosed not with ADHD, but ADD. So I don't know. They may have evolved it. They added in the H. Yeah. Yeah. But very similarly when I was younger had a ⁓ hard time focusing or comprehending what I read. Right. so it it made school very challenging and difficult. And, you know, as far as like I don't think I I ⁓ was depressed, speaker-1: I don't even know if they distinguish anymore. speaker-0: Definitely frustrated. Like big time. speaker-1: Yeah, I mean it like looking back and the behaviors that I that I had and I still have, I am very positive on my diagnosis. But I think it was also like really overdiagnosed when we were kids. speaker-0: So what were like the sympt the symptoms that really stood out to you? Like so for the audience that like doesn't really understand what this is, like what is it? speaker-1: So for me, it was just the like the hyperness that just turns on without any like ⁓ my wife has just gotten used to it where I'll just be like s just sitting and being fine, and then I'm just darting around the house playing with the dogs or something like that. and just never able to sit still ever, ⁓ ever, ever. I can't go ⁓ like wife. Des would love to go like on a beach relaxation trip. Mm-hmm. ⁓ and we have done them. But I want to do activities too. speaker-0: I think so. Yeah. Yeah. speaker-1: Des like always brings up. She's like, we went to Aruba and he had to do like we had to do multiple activities a day we went and did two things, and I was going nuts in that one week only doing two things. So like I've gotten better at managing it, but it's also like the idea, and these are things I've gotten better at because I've created coping mechanisms, I think. ⁓ But like being really good at my at GameStop, you know. working ahead on everything, doing all these inventories and things like that, but never thinking about how much gasoline was in my gas tank. speaker-0: So would you like crash then? Like would you just like cra No. So like you get kind of like the surge of energy, but then like when you come down from it, you're just like back to speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. I don't crash very often unless it's on days I've taken medication when that falls out. Got it. So I mean, I've been medicated since I was eight years old and at this point I don't it honestly scares me to think about getting off of it completely. I don't take it on weekends and I haven't for most of my life. But like the days that I don't take it, I'm pretty good. Again, I've developed coping mechanisms. But it would be like walking around without your glasses on it for for anyone who's like nearsighted or something like that. Yeah, you could probably get through your day just fine. But your glasses would make your day a lot. speaker-0: Yeah, it presents a lot of challenges. And I the glasses reference is great because when I don't have my glasses on, like right now, I do this a lot. Here, look at me. I no, I I I'm good with what I got hooked up with. But it's funny. So like the other day I was out with one of our friends and I didn't have my glasses on and we were having a conversation about, you know, work, whatever. Yeah, we were kind of venting a little bit. But anyway, so I'm looking at her like this. And she's like, Why are you looking at me like that? speaker-1: We are this is an audio format ⁓ entertainment. So for the record, ⁓ John is expressing what most people would call art towards me. speaker-0: RBF. Yes. Yeah. So my brow pressure is as down far as possible towards my nose as I can get it because the goal is to focus with my eyes. Cause obviously I'm 46 years old. It's a little blurry now. So that helps. So, anyways, I'm looking at my friend and I'm like, and I'm I'm giving her this brow look. She and all of a sudden she she like snaps on me. And I'm like, What what just happened? Why are you looking at me like that? I'm just like, ⁓ my God. Yeah. speaker-1: Misunderstanding there is a good comparison too, because I'll interrupt conversations at time. Not really meaning to, but like that I the idea in my head that's there. If I don't get it out, I feel like my brain will explode or I will completely erase it. And that's another typical symptom. And then getting diagnosed with dyslexia is a tends to be an overdiagnosis in a lot of people who have ADHD. It's not I'm already trying to look like seven lines ahead when I'm trying to read one sentence. Mm-hmm. so for me, the way I learn to develop a coping mechanism for that is I use a I have to use a note card when I'm reading to block the the lower part. Yeah. ⁓ speaker-0: Block. ⁓ that's interesting. Yeah. Have to. And somewhat fascinating. Yeah. I should try that. Because I'm actually very similar. Where like I'm like, I want to get ahead. I want to get ahead. I want to get ahead. You know, or like I want this over with, you know, which is how I was in school when I was younger, and that's why I wasn't comprehending anything I was reading. speaker-1: So yeah, ⁓ and just like there's an impulse control issue. I mean, to this day, that's pretty common with people with with ADHD. But I think this winds back to why I was kind of like weird about talking about it. Is it's there are so many people who are like, ⁓ they're so brave for coming out and talking about this. And I'm like, that's fucking stupid. Like, you're not like I mean, good for you for like owning this, getting your diagnosis, trying to like better your life. But like there's there's a lot of us kids who were out there, had the diagnosis, were looked at like shitheads. I'm I I even like I've warned myself I'd swear more at this 'cause there are things that'll probably get me angry. speaker-0: I think you just gotta let it out. Yeah. Yeah. It's gonna let it out. speaker-1: And you know, it's I I'm like happy for people for like finding themselves a little bit, in adulthood because so many of us don't figure out who we are. but like we were it's been we people who were ignored at times. ⁓ And like n I don't know anyone who had the diagnosis that I had in middle school and high school that hid it, you know, like I don't know. It it just is weird to me. And I just find a lot of what I see on the internet talking about this condition cringy. And I worry that all this stuff going out there is making a lot of people like self-diagnose with ADD or spectrum disorder or ⁓ manic depression. And you know what? Like our brains are so fluid and malleable and they like our thought the way we think and the way we behave does change over time and goes through fluctuations. Like you could just be depressed today, or like you could just be going through like something that's really causing you to have a lot of stress that is making your impulse control a little lower. Yeah. ⁓ speaker-0: And that and that's also why, like, you know, and it it's kind of a common phrase nowadays, but like you just don't know what people are going through. Right. So it's nice to just try to be kind. know, like being kind to people because you don't know what they're going through because, you know, they might be having a tough day, ⁓ With their everyday problem. I know for me when I was younger, and now that I'm older and I think about it, I Was kind of diagnosed with ADD? I guess kind of. No. I was, but if I'm looking back at it. I whatever I was learning back then in school, I was told to learn it. I was told to learn biology, science, math, English, literature, social studies, right? Right. And and there's always portions of it where it's like you don't like you just don't care. speaker-1: Right. Eighty percent of the population is not going to care about every subject in speaker-0: Za exactly. And if I'm being honest here today, I would say that I just wasn't interested. Yeah. And because I wasn't interested, like how I got hooked up if I'm not interested, I'm not interested. So it goes in one ear, out the other. speaker-1: I mean, that is pretty typical. speaker-0: And and and I would say, and I would honestly say that I just had like a very high level and low tolerance for the other stuff. So now that I'm older and I know we were talking earlier about like I feel like I outgrew it because now when I'm reading about something that I'm very interested in, like I consume it. Like hyper focused. speaker-1: I mean, you ⁓ might that I'm but that is A D D too. Like if you are if you hyperfixate on things and I go through those patterns where I'll hyper focus on a subject, it's easier. Like music and martial arts are probably the perfect examples. Like ⁓ had it in my head that I wanted to get a song written, there was nothing that was gonna pull my attention away from that. Mm-hmm. and would I could like I couldn't get my studies done in college, but I could sit there and learn new por chord progressions that I like you know that I didn't need to know for my career today. speaker-0: Did you ever like when you were in those situations, did you ever like work harder purposely because the repetition you were like, I just need to keep doing it. I just need to keep doing it because like that way. speaker-1: No. No. I needed I need someone to force me into repetition. I want to do the next thing. my It's I think it's the reason I was never very good at learning covers. Like my bands never played a lot of covers because I like first of all, me and my bandmates just didn't really want to do them. But like focusing on learning a cover, there's so much repetition in it. But when you're writing your own music, there's tweaks happening. There's like, ⁓ I can, you know, let's change this this part or this hook or this chorus. ⁓ to make it feel better. So the repetition's different because you're looking for the best way to do it. Where when I was doing, if you play a cover, you're just trying to make it sound like it sounds on the scene. Right. And I didn't like that. And in martial arts, I had to do I had to do private lessons at times just to like focus in and do the same thing over and over. Because if the movement wasn't cool or I didn't find it that entertaining, it was harder for me to focus on it. like patterns, I think are is a good example. So those of you who have ever don't do martial arts, every belt or every rank has like a sequence ⁓ of movements that you do called a pattern or form. Or kata. Kata. Kata's Japanese. Yep. So I was terrible at those when I was a kid. I could do them, but like at martial arts tournaments I'd take home like a third and I'm like, whatever. But if it was sparring, which is gonna be different with every single opponent, I was taking home first because that's what I wanted to do. speaker-0: And what kind of martial arts were you into? speaker-1: I did a t did taekwondo. I've done taekwondo since I was eight. speaker-0: I did Kenpo. Kenpo karate. Yeah. Yeah, which is a blend of American street fighting and ninjutsu. ⁓ had to do the katas, had to break the boards, had to do all of the the moves. I that stuff for like ten years. It was great. speaker-1: Dude, it's anyone who's looking for a way to like train their brain should do speaker-0: ⁓ And release energy. Yeah. speaker-1: But but a lot of the like traditional martial arts have have like I think disciplinary and like brain training aspects that some of the other like more competitive martial arts maybe don't always have. But like getting back to it, I think, 'cause we could talk about martial arts all day. speaker-0: ⁓ yeah. Bub martial arts are awesome. Yeah. speaker-1: For sure. speaker-0: So at this point, you know you had ADHD diagnosed with it. So there was kind of like a reputation, maybe a negative or bad reputation with that. speaker-1: Yeah, I was diagnosed when I speaker-0: Yeah. So like how did you handle, how'd you deal with that? speaker-1: Not well. just be honest. ⁓ so back in the nineties, they just put you in what they called special ed, which was a mixture of people ⁓ of kids ⁓ learning disabilities, which they've categorized ADHD at the time as, to behavioral issues, bipolar disorder, a bunch of different things. So the kids who like misbehaved in class. ⁓ speaker-0: Yeah. ⁓ speaker-1: You were put with them at times. Like I remember having to go into Mrs. Nordhagen's class a lot 'cause that's where that's where I belonged, they would say. And I just was hanging out with a bunch of, you know, the people around me weren't exact like this is gonna come off kind of negative, but it's not meant to be. Like wasn't like I was getting like a positive response or being challenged by these people at all. If not if anything, they might have been kind of a negative on and when come back to class, it's like, ⁓ Elliot had to go hang out with the dumb kids or the bad kids. and like ⁓ It was just a way of people just kind of slapping a label and like not having to deal with the kid, it seemed like at times. and then I th like I just I thought that was me. I I was like my mom was told that I'd be lucky to graduate high school when I was nine, you know, by a therapist. Like speaker-0: I hate you know what I hate that shit. Sorry, I I hate that. Yeah. I hate it so much because, you know, when you're in like a leadership position, you know, and a teacher is a in a leadership position, you can't say those things. Like the there's a nicer way, there's a kinder way, but like sorry, that just like rubs me the wrong way because I've had it said to me, and if anything, it lit a fire under my ass to make a difference. speaker-1: I had to like develop that mentality. I think it kicked in later in life, but at the time, you know, you're you're eight, nine years old, and you will blindly trust what an adult is telling you. And so for me to be told this over and over and over was damaging at times. you know, I remember like I think my mom being the wise person that she is finally noticed that. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: There wasn't a positive impact from that type of therapy. ⁓ and she switched me to something else that was a lot more productive, I think, and a l allowed me to be creative while I was go working through my feelings and the things that I was dealing with. that helped. But as I like got older, I got so I middle school I got in a fight by the By the bike racks where fights happen. ⁓ yo. it was right after Columbine Zero Tolerance Policy, and I got suspended. ⁓ bunch things happened, and my parents decided, hey, we're gonna pull him into, we're gonna homeschool him for a year, and then we're gonna move him to the ⁓ other middle school. So during that year, I think is kind of when the self-discovery like kind of kicked in of like. speaker-0: Meet you at the bike racks. speaker-1: And I think that's just the maturing brain of like, hey, I'm not gonna ha let anyone tell me what I can or can't do. I had a really amazing fifth grade teacher who like recognized that like he's really good at math, but we won't let him do math Olympiads because he's not good at English. That doesn't make sense. So she basically told the principal to go fuck herself and me in math olympiads. And that's when I that was when I started taking school more seriously. When I was finally challenged. if she hadn't done that, who knows how longer it might have taken me to like get a grip on it if I would have at all. so like middle school happened, I started like kind of discovering my idea my ideas of who I was. you know, we had started using medication at that point, was able to focus during school time and be creative at home with the right meds. and I ⁓ switched From one school to the other where that bad kid label l stayed at that school, I go to another, I don't have that label on me and all of a sudden I did better in school. Mm-hmm. speaker-0: Well, yeah. You didn't have to use your positive energy to defend all the negative energy. I speaker-1: I didn't have teachers looking down on me at me right away. Exactly. 'Cause that's what happened at the other schools. And that is my biggest problem with the whole thing, is that I didn't need special attention all the time. There were just certain things I needed extra help with, like the English and written language side of things. But there was no like help for that. It was just, hey, you go with all of the kids who are struggling with something with any part of school. We're gonna lump you all together. But it it just that that classic education system just I I knew was never gonna work for me. So yeah, I as soon as I was able to like ditch that label, I started doing well in school. speaker-0: Yeah, you know, and and and I also like if you compare your earlier years in school to your later years in school, like when you're going through your dentistry program and doctorate. Yeah. Right. So like for I know for me, grammar school, middle school, high school, man, I my level of effort didn't exist. You know, my my level of trying, just all the things, like if I take a look back And if I were that doctor that was like, Okay, he's got eight A D D, I I would have gone with the he's lazy and doesn't care. I I I yeah, I kinda I kinda feel that way a bit. Maybe I'm on the the ⁓ the cusp of speaker-1: Just be have it have a mild issue of speaker-0: A mild issue, but like you know, when I went to to college, the f I I had economics, first test, fucking field it. All those same feelings came back to me around like, ⁓ here we go again. Yeah. Level of effort you put put in was and you expected to do well ⁓ I got an F. Yeah. then That was I was and and the here's what's different, right? Like I had a family, I had people counting on me, all the things. And like then I was like, I gotta turn this around. So long story short, there, I ended up graduating college with like a 3.7 GPA. And that first test that I did was the last grade that I ever got like that again. Everything else was A's and B's. And I was like, how come I couldn't do that in high school? speaker-1: Your focus ⁓ changes that happens to me too. Like I when I'm at my lowest point, like mentally, the fact that I have people that are relying on me helps me see past it. Like, yeah, I feel like my energy is drained today. I feel like absolute garbage. I want to sit in a dark room, but I have patients waiting for me in the other room. I've got staff that depend on me. I just I I'm gonna pull myself through today. And ⁓ But yeah, I think like when we just kind of like rounding this up, this topic, like I genuinely thought I was a bad kid. I did not understand that my brain just worked differently. I thought there was something wrong with me, ⁓ like at my core. ⁓ And it's because I had adults telling me that. I had ⁓ adults at church. I had ⁓ in school telling me that ⁓ and that's damaging. Yeah. Like was nine, you know? So ⁓ speaker-0: It is. It is. And and it happens at all s at all stages of your life. Yeah. When when and and it's no different than what someone tells you what you're worth what you're capable of, you know, like it's n it's not cool. speaker-1: Right. So what I realized as I got older was that there was like hidden strengths to this. I was really good at mathematics, I was really good at martial arts, I was pretty good at sciences. Yeah. Haya. speaker-0: Absolutely. Pia my dad would always do that. speaker-1: I realized that I like an energy about me that gave me that kind of gave me a good like leadership vibe. and that's what I started leaning into. but I still couldn't figure out school. speaker-0: But but I do I I like where you're going with this because you know it it can be a strength, right? Yeah. And I would challenge those that I think have the emotions that we've been talking about up to this point. I would take a different approach. And I would say lean into it. Yeah. Try to use it in a way that, you know, it challenges you kind of figure it out. Or like, hey, okay, no, I act this way. How might I? Figure this out, you know, try something different. Because if this other way isn't working, well then you really have nothing to lose. speaker-1: Yeah, I would agree. I think way that I can describe this is that my brain is going in so many directions at once that it allows me to think of a bunch of different solutions to a problem. I think it's probably why I liked calculus and algebra so much because there was like there was sometimes multiple ways to solve a a problem. Yeah. ⁓ And and get the same answer, which is the goal. But you also ⁓ that not a superpower all the time. Sometimes you do need to lock in and focus on one thing. speaker-0: Well, so but they're y you're speaking from experience. Yeah. And you're like, okay, time to dial the superpower down. speaker-1: Well, sure. like we would just just throttle it back. Like I'll be when I'm doing surgery, I need to be focusing on what's in the mouth ⁓ and going on and you know, avoid arteries, get the tooth out as without damaging bone structures or other teeth. Like that's not the time for me to be thinking on developing another business on the side. speaker-0: Well, I would say this if you are, it's because you're great at what you do. speaker-1: ⁓ well, appreciate that. But at the same time, You're welcome. I really, really appreciate it that but it that's the time to use the ADHD hyperfocus on something. and it have a lot of value. It where I find it to be like in my job every day, and maybe you can talk about how it affects you, is that when I'm coming up with a treatment plan for a patient and they have a really difficult situation. speaker-0: Okay. Right. speaker-1: Whether it's a lot of wear and tear on their teeth, whether they're gonna need full mouth rehab. If they're coming in for asking for something, I'm thinking of why it will or will not work ⁓ cosmetically or and functionally. I'm thinking of like six different ways to handle that problem at the same time. And I've become really good ⁓ not vocalizing all six different options to a person because that can overwhelm people very, very quickly. speaker-0: Yes. And and I think we all go through that part of the problem solving process, right? Because we're so excited. And when we have personalities like ours, we're like you said, like we kinda interrupt or like we we if we don't get this out of our mouths or out of our head down to our mouth and then out, we're gonna explode or we're afraid we're gonna forget. I totally agree, right? You know, there when it comes to problem solving, we both love it, right? Like we like the challenge, we like being put in those uncomfortable areas so that we can learn and grow. But you're right, there's an art form. And I think where I'm at right now, when it comes to solving the problem, I try to lean into some ⁓ kind like on the fly. Like I'll take little bits and pieces of ⁓ my experience. How can I guide this group or myself through this process so that, you know, I can get the outcome that is not good enough, but it's the right outcome. speaker-1: Yeah, I think you're talking about using that your ability to for your our brains to work in multiple directions at once and not think on a linear path embracing it and not fighting it. speaker-0: So mine mine is different though, because like I will pull blocks, if you will, and I will ⁓ want it to be linear, but I know that when I start it up front that like it's not linear, but I ⁓ want it to be linear so that I can have it make sense because if I can have it make sense to me, chances are I can have it make sense to someone else. speaker-1: What I have found really, really valuable for doing stuff like that is learning a system to approach it. Yes. ⁓ the Spear Education Center down in Phoenix teaches this really amazing treatment planning system where you just you're not thinking about how you're gonna treat the patient. All you are doing is identifying the problems. And now we're gonna go through in order and how do you fix those problems? speaker-0: System or framework. Yep. speaker-1: And then what does each step impact the next? And I have found that using that system to really, really help me because otherwise I'm thinking of because there's there's like let's look at replacing a tooth. Can we talk about that? speaker-0: Yes, and I will do my b you know what? I had a tooth that needed to come out and it was replaced. So let's use me as an example. speaker-1: Okay. So John, when you lost your tooth, I when we took it out, we came back around and we ⁓ didn't really lay out the like four different ways to replace your tooth to you. I really just talked about the best way. ⁓ so there I could have put you into a removable partial denture. and there's like speaker-0: Yes. speaker-1: six different ways I could have designed that denture to fit your mouth, whether it be a ⁓ what we call a spider denture or ⁓ a flipper or a cast frame or a flexible partial. Like there's all these different ways to do it. You didn't need to know that. That just needed to stay in my brain. Those are inside thoughts. And then there's bridges where I have to prep adjacent teeth or I have to do speaker-0: T ⁓ I speaker-1: I have to figure out a way to bond the tooth between other teeth. then there's leaving it alone. And then there's implants. The best way to do it is is an implant. So that's really all I brought up to you. But there's also different ways to restore the implant, too. So having a system where you know what works, but you know is the best way to do that, and then you can pivot within that system, I think it's really important. So anyone out there who's like trying to like develop a way to like manage their people or for dentists and healthcare practitioners who are looking to develop treatment plans and ways to create a system, there there's a lot out there. ⁓ I can only speak on dentistry, but yeah. but when it came down to learning all that it took time. ⁓ And because the education system wasn't really developed the traditional develop ⁓ education system doesn't fit me. I speaker-0: I I would agree, but I would also say that, you know, this is narrow minded on my part, but the the system and the support and maybe the knowledge and education to ⁓ help like you and I get that treated. I don't know if the research was kind of like there yet. speaker-1: ⁓ not back then. I it's way better for kids these days. speaker-0: Absolutely. I I definitely I definitely feel like from what I've heard, there there's a lot less well no, I shouldn't say that. Like I was gonna go, there's a lot nicer kids. No, they're all fucking mean. these kids are they're so mean today. But I think there's just better support from the from the teachers or the instructors because you know, there's more research, there's more data behind it, there's different ways to approach it. You know, there's like you said, Elliot, you know, there's different levels of everything. And I think they now have some good foundational yeah things where they can they can test and learn. speaker-1: I had a great teacher. I had a great fifth grade teacher, Mrs. Roth. I don't know if you're still around, but you were the best. Yeah, I did. Like, you look back in your life and there's a lot of you can probably identify like the most impactful people in your life. Mrs. Roth was one of those for me. where ⁓ she that I was not gonna be able to work within the system, how it was laid out in a curriculum. speaker-0: I loved you. speaker-1: And and you know what? Education systems have to have some sort of like, hey, we've got to go with like the path of least resistance for the most amount of kids. we can't ⁓ we can't customize education to every single kid. And that's okay. I understand. I'm not really bitter about that. But what Mrs. Roth started to teach me was how to beat the system. ⁓ she would give me ⁓ speaker-0: Yes. speaker-1: Okay, we have to do reading. I want you to read a fantasy book. Here is a stack of fantasy books. Read the back of them, look at a few pages, and you pick which one you r want to read rather than me assigning one to you. So during fifth grade, I probably read the most books than I that I ever did in school, period. Because I had like she taught me to enjoy reading for the first time. And then she fought to get me in math Olympiads, ⁓ which was like, you know, the I it's probably not around anymore. But it was like, hey, we're gonna sit down and in fifth grade you're gonna like learn basic algebra and things like that. And I remember sitting there in school and going, holy cow, this is the first time I'm challenged. So this is what education can be like. then I went through, you know, middle school and high school and I did really well. I had certain teachers who understood me better than others. But I never accepted that, like, hey, ADHD is like this a big excuse to do anything or to act anyway or to not do well in school. College was really, really, really hard for me. Like, and I think that's where I started like with my identity again, because it's all self-driven. It's not like you're being dropped off by your parents at school every day. And ⁓ It's a lot of reading. It's a lot of writing. And I wasn't good at either of those things. Nor was I good at having the self-discipline to just show up to class. So I dropped out after one year of college. I was miserable. and when I went back, there was this new fangled thing called YouTube with educational videos on it. YouTube helped so much. Like I can't. I can't articulate how much like YouTube helped me get through different history courses and things like that because if I could just watch a documentary on the subject that we were talking about in American history, I found the reading to be easier. speaker-0: I I love YouTube. love that it's on my Apple TV. This this episode is not sponsored by Apple TV, but thank you, Apple TV, for having YouTube on my TV. Yes. Anyways, ⁓ you know, learning to beat the system, especially nowadays with where we are with our software and technology, with artificial intelligence and the language models, I speaker-1: You enjoy YouTube. speaker-0: I would love to see data and research around, you know, a young child that, you know, has learning disabilities. But, you know, with AI, you can now be taught a curriculum and it could be tailored to your interests. It could be tailored to your learning style, to your point. You're a visual learner, right? Maybe less audio or, you know, just like reading, whatever, comprehending. But like, You you could be like, I love back to the future and I want a back to the future themed algebra course. And great Scott, you would do an amazing job. know, so yeah, ⁓ and I and I feel like that's part of the education system that you know, if it's not being adopted now, it will be like when you enter the school system, you are now going to have your AI buddy, whether it's claw, chat GPT, Gemini, whatever it is, Copi, whatever. But like There will be a buddy, a guide, something to bounce ideas off of, or like it you can find a way to to learn in ways that you haven't before. And I think when you, you know, we have ADD, ADHD, like those are things that will enhance the overall experience and Hopefully raise your confidence level that like there's nothing wrong with you. That's just what you got hooked up with. Yeah. That's okay. speaker-1: Yeah, it's funny that you bring up AI right now because like my creative side and things like that really didn't want to work with AI as much as do. ⁓ but what I found is that I can dump all of my ideas into ⁓ ⁓ chat GPT it can spit it back to me in an organized way. And I can be like, I don't want your interpretation of this. I don't want your ideas about it. I just want it to be organized. ⁓ that helps tremendously because I need things to be hyper organized ⁓ my brain is so dis speaker-0: And linear, right? You want it linear. Absolutely. speaker-1: Especially if I'm trying to explain it to somebody else, like my staff. So my staff will be like you let Chat GPT write this, laughing at me. And I'm like, Yeah, because if I wrote it, you'd hate it. ⁓ but I also want to push back on something you said here about, you know, us adapting and creating custom education or custom like accommodations. I I think that can go too far. speaker-0: Funny. speaker-1: Because it is a huge culture and like mental shock to enter the real world because they don't care. Like the rest of the world doesn't care how you learn. are not going to accommodate for you in a job, in a high stress job. Unfortunately. ⁓ right out of school. speaker-0: Well, I think it depends on the the company and the culture, number one. You know, like w what is the what does the support look like for kind of encouragement or behavior? Well, I mean ⁓ no one needs to know how the sausage is made. If as long as you're performing and you're doing the the job and the role, then like that is speaker-1: Sure. I agree. I agree. Like That is good point. Because I have s I have a s ⁓ probably more than one, but one specific in mind ⁓ employee who has ADHD. And all the things that drive me nuts about her, like, it makes sense. Like, I I'm but with all the good I get out of her up for it. But the thing you can't go and punch someone at a ⁓ bar. Because you have impulse control issues and then tell the cops you have impulse control issues. speaker-0: ⁓ my god. That that that rubis I don't know. Did you ever watch the show Nurse Jackie? Didn't. Okay, never mind. Okay. speaker-1: No idea Okay. But but that's that's more what I'm talking about. It's like ⁓ I never learned like impulse control issues or like self reliance and now I expect the everybody to help me. speaker-0: ⁓ you know, one of the like, okay, no, I want to go back to what I said then just because I would like to kind of unpack this a little bit, provide a little more clarity. Yeah. When if I had a tool like when I was in middle school, high school, I would have done better. But half the reason was when I tried to study, I like I didn't remember what we taught in the classroom, you know, the grammar school notes, they're ridiculous. Give me a break. You know, sure. They don't even what what is that? A fifth grader taking notes? Come on. You know, and then like, you know, when I'm in high school, if I could have just had to help me push through the, you know, cumbersome nature of studying when I was already ⁓ to like learn. Like it it would have if I could have had a tool to be like, okay, here's what I need to learn. Help me learn this. ⁓ speaker-1: That's good point. speaker-0: Because I'm struggling to learn it. Help me make sense of it. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And like that relationship that you can create with a language model, you know, from now until however long you use it, it will continue to refine and adapt to your style. Even if you start pivoting, it will pivot with you. speaker-1: Yeah, that's a good point too. And I can think of like back in college, especially just notebooks upon notebooks of notes, you know, recordings of lectures, all these PowerPoints. Yeah. And do you know what I would do i in the end anyway? I would rewrite all my notes. And that took a huge amount of time and energy. Where if I had just some ⁓ like a model to put ⁓ into, it would have given me more time to study and more time to digest that material and not be stressing out about the exam as much. speaker-0: Highlighting. Mm. Right. So so that's why I think like today, if we come bring it back to the ADHD, you know, and with what we have today, like I again, I would lean into it. I would, you know, try some new techniques. my go-to would be like exp, you know, ⁓ with your learning style with a language model, giving it the context and being like, This is how I learned best, and see if it works and be like, Div, you know, make this test for me. ⁓ based off the criteria that I was given do it in a way that can be memorable for me, but I can also still ⁓ it in my head while I'm doing the test. speaker-1: Yeah. I mean, I think that's that's great. And I think it like AI has helped me tremendously in organizing my thoughts for my business, about staying on tax on task, creating to do lists that I can quickly and efficiently ask people about. but it's it's tool. It i at the end of the day it's gotta be a tool. It can't be speaker-0: Yeah, it's a tool and not to aid in your excuse. Yeah. speaker-1: Right. 'Cause my my my parents would never let me use ADHD as an excuse. I remember seeing kids, ⁓ like hearing kids in high school use it as an excuse and I'm like, man, my mom would kick my ass if I ever tried that. speaker-0: I n I never actually told anybody about ad. Yeah, I would call it ad. speaker-1: Really. I mean I I I mean I didn't hide it, but I wasn't like broadcasting it. Well no one speaker-0: No one else was talking about it. Right. You know, no one else was talking about it. I didn't know I didn't really know what it was. And I I wasn't even sure if it was true or not. And I will go with I was stubborn, probably more than I was distracted. But there there again, there is a little bit of it. But anyways, like it it's not an excuse to like not do something. Right. Right. speaker-1: Exactly. Because when it came down to it is that I could overcome those issues and it developed like a real like grit and like thick hide on me about certain things where it was like when I got told I couldn't do something, it made me a little bit more like, you, I'm gonna do it anyway. you know. speaker-0: ⁓ when someone tells you like when someone tells you what to do in a negative way, it's like it's almost like when someone tells you how to work. speaker-1: Yeah, I enjoy proving people wrong. ⁓ speaker-0: I just don't tolerate it. Like, don't tell me how to work. know, I'm at a point in my career and ⁓ know, I'm open to feedback, like all that stuff, but like don't tell me how to work. speaker-1: Right. And know, I r the reason that I wanted to talk about a lot of this stuff, when it comes down to it, you're not alone. Mm-hmm. There are a lot of people that are dealing with the same things that you are do dealing with. and it is okay to ask for help. Absolutely. Like when I got out of dental school, the first thing I did was find a therapist to ⁓ have to talk to and to yell at and to deal with the emotional turmoil of of leaving academics for the first time and entering a workforce with a high stress. high demanding job. and if you ⁓ that or you think you need that, you need to explore it. at the end of the day, you are not And I want like that to be a big thing. Because we talked about mostly ADHD today, but a lot of people who are dealing with ADHD are dealing with depression in some capacity. Yeah. ⁓ because they don't They feel alienated and alone at times. one of the darkest moments I went through in dental school was right after I had to retake a board exam. And I remember reading a book called or ⁓ listening audiobooks, because again, reading sucks. I was furniture because I needed to do something. So I went and bought a bunch of wood and I was building. A pad EO set for my back deck. And I was listening to this book called The Way of Kings. And this author ⁓ interviewed people with different like mental health conditions or or learning disabilities or whatever you want to call it. And there was a character in that who's definitely some sort of like manic depressant ADD type guy. And I remember him writing like his experiences and thoughts down and like listening to that in an audiobook and like like breaking down and like realizing for the first time that Somebody else had to be going through what I was going through because there was no way that they could have put my brain onto paper like that otherwise. So you know, anyone who's dealing with this in a professional setting, in a setting, in a socio setting, or even in a relationship setting, ask for help. Talk with your your friends, your family, your partner, talk with a therapist. Don't be embarrassed. Like own it. speaker-0: Don't be embarrassed either. Yeah, lean into it. Yeah. speaker-1: I don't think you need a jacket that says I have ADHD and ma and depression on the back. Like I think that's too far. speaker-0: Yeah, that that'd be like someone with low testosterone creating a whole line of clothing called LT. Yeah. speaker-1: Yeah. Is that a thing? speaker-0: I may have thought about it. speaker-1: Ha ha ha. speaker-0: Like a shorts with an L T that's like on like on the lower part of the knee, so it's like low T. Like legit. Anyways, yes. Don't you gotta lean into it. Don't be embarrassed. Like, you know, there there's nothing There's nothing wrong with you. You know, like there's there's speaker-1: No, we live in we live we're human beings, there's a spectrum of how our brains work. speaker-0: It's what you do with it, right? Yeah. And if you can if you can kind of push through things and you and you find ways, and that's the thing. It's like you gotta find ways to remove those, you know, ⁓ ⁓ things that ⁓ walls where you can't break them down. You know, you just you have to find ways and problem solve around them so you can break them down, walk around them, or even crawl over them because there's effort. speaker-1: When it comes down to it, like if I had listened to all the people who told me that I shouldn't go in, like I'd have a difficulty becoming a dentist, I'd have difficulty in college, that I wouldn't be able to do it. I would have never been able to build the life that I have. You know, my wife and I have been together for 19 years at this point. ⁓ we have ⁓ a great life. I have an awesome business. I have one of the greatest teams that I could ask for. ⁓ great businesses. ⁓ speaker-0: That's awesome. speaker-1: Like I've used the things that were considered kind of the negative things, the impulse control issue, the high energy, ⁓ not being able to keep my brain on one task at any given time to create a really good business, to be a leader to people, to a bunch of different people because I'm trying to see it from a bunch of different points of view and understanding that people think differently. ⁓ used like my hyper photo fixation or my manicness at times to focus in on mastering a skill or a topic at an accelerated rate. you know, when it comes down to it, I talk to I've got ⁓ students martial arts who are parent comes and they're like, we don't know what to do with the kid. Like, you know, he's got ADHD. I'm worried about him. I'm like, Yeah, I got ADHD too. I'm a doctor. I'm happily married. I ⁓ speaker-0: Two dogs, one one dog on the way, one kid on the way. speaker-1: I've got a Yeah. I like I'm no one has speaker-0: has a puppy and a kid on the way. This guy does. I do. speaker-1: Because have to have something to do. I gotta have a project. speaker-0: So worried. Yeah. speaker-1: Like this diagnosis, this like idea, this premise really doesn't impact how ⁓ what type of person or how successful you're gonna be. You're just gonna have to own things in a different way, is is what I'm trying to say. People with ADHD can be doctors, they can be business owners, leaders, husbands, wives, parents, whatever they decide they're going to become. Like, and that's what I tell to to parents who bring in kids at the at Taekwondo, like Your kid's gonna be fine. He's gonna learn in a different way. It's not a big deal. Like, it's okay. yeah. I like w we had a a a family friend who was this kid's like, I've got ADHD, so I'm not gonna do good in school. And my a Desiree just like slapped him down and like your uncle has ADHD and he's a doctor. Like, yeah, you got nothing. It speaker-0: And you know, your your journey has allowed you to embrace what you were hooked up with. Yeah. Right. it's allowed you to find problem solving skills, ⁓ adapt it, ⁓ and through. And like you said, you have a great life. Yeah. You know, you you know, there's always things that could probably be better, but at the end of the day, you are a happy guy with a great wife, you got a great family. You have a great practice, you have great career, things are good. And similarly to you, I'm very happy. Right. Like, you know, I've had to push through this similar things in my journey, and I'm happy where I'm at. And I like me. Like I like myself a lot. And I wouldn't have changed it. I like my my flaws. Yeah. Yeah. Like I'm good with it. would never I would never try to like change who I am internally. I mean, there's always room for improvement, but like whatever I go hooked up with, man, that's what that's what I try to lean into. speaker-1: I agree. you know, this was kind of a different episode from it was fun. Yeah. And I think ⁓ the reason I wanted to do I kind of talked myself into doing it or had some friends talk ⁓ you know, enforced that it's a good idea is, you know, you and I ⁓ appreciate mentoring people. We appreciate the chance to maybe make a small impact on somebody's life. Mm-hmm. speaker-0: It was fun. speaker-1: So anyone who's listening to this who's like, Hey, I've got a goal in mind. I just don't know if my my brain can work towards it if or ⁓ that my abilities are there, I mean, maybe you just need help. there's things out there that can help you get there. and you just need the right team. or maybe you need the right mentor, or you maybe you need the right advice from someone. So that's that was kind of the point today's episode. speaker-0: starts with accepting the fact that you know there's nothing wrong with you you just have to work a little bit harder at certain things. Yep. And that's okay because leaning in, pushing through the grit, taking it head on is only gonna help you downstream. speaker-1: I'd agree. And some and some things are gonna be harder for you and some things are gonna be easier. So I think that's a good place for us to wrap up. ⁓ speaker-0: Absolutely. This was a great episode today and Doctor E's gonna run the outro right now. speaker-1: So ⁓ thank you for ⁓ listening to I think this is gonna be episode ⁓ the Death Before Decay podcast with ⁓ Dr. Elliot Hummiston and super John Erline. Hello. if you haven't already subscribed to us on Spotify or Apple Music ⁓ or ⁓ Apple Podcasts or YouTube, please do. It helps us out. We would speaker-0: I believe York. speaker-1: We're really enjoying this. I think we're gonna keep it going for a while yet. But having positive feedback is always good. speaker-0: Absolutely. Yeah. You know, maybe one of these episodes we'll just have like a feedback episode where people we review the feedback. my god. Might be kind of fun. That might be. All right, audience. Thank you so much. Thank you.