Latest / Bucco Territory: A Pittsburgh Pirates Podcast / Pirates Position Grades since the Trade Deadline
Transcript
- 0:09Speaker 1: What's up, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of Bucko Territory,
- 0:12Speaker 1: presented to you by the Foul Territory Network. I'm your host,
- 0:15Speaker 1: Noah Hiles. Joining me, as always, on the show are
- 0:17Speaker 1: my co-hosts, Platinum Key, a.k.a. Mark and Josh Harrison. It
- 0:21Speaker 1: is Wednesday, September 9th. Fellows, good to be back on
- 0:25Speaker 1: the show. Thanks for holding it down for me while
- 0:27Speaker 1: I was celebrating my boy Dalton at his bachelor party.
- 0:30Speaker 1: Shout out to him. Congratulations. Very exciting for the wedding.
- 0:34Speaker 1: But enough about Dalton. More about the Pittsburgh Pirates. They're
- 0:37Speaker 1: still hanging around. You guys talked about that on the
- 0:40Speaker 1: last show, which I enjoyed. We're going to kind of
- 0:42Speaker 1: just evaluate where they are right now from the trade deadline.
- 0:46Speaker 1: It's going to be a post-trade deadline grade show. And
- 0:51Speaker 1: if you watched this podcast before, when we do our grades,
- 0:54Speaker 1: we break it up into three segments because we have
- 0:56Speaker 1: advertisements because that's a part of how this works. So
- 1:00Speaker 1: the first segment will be starting pitching, relief pitching, and catchers.
- 1:05Speaker 1: Second segment will be infield, outfield, and DH. And the
- 1:08Speaker 1: third segment will be coaching. So guys, let's just get
- 1:11Speaker 1: right into it. We'll start off with the starting pitching.
- 1:15Speaker 1: Tough to grade, right?
- 1:16Speaker 2: This is a weird one, yeah.
- 1:18Speaker 1: So Mark, I'll let you start off. What's your starting
- 1:20Speaker 1: pitching grade?
- 1:21Speaker 2: I'll go with B.
- 1:22Speaker 1: Since the trade deadline.
- 1:22Speaker 2: Yeah, since the trade deadline. I'll go with a B. Really?
- 1:28Speaker 2: For starting pitching?
- 1:30Speaker 1: Yeah.
- 1:30Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think we've seen some improvement. I mean-
- 1:33Speaker 2: It's hard because there's five players. But at the same time,
- 1:38Speaker 2: we've seen some of Skeen's best starts since May, June.
- 1:43Speaker 2: So we've seen some improvement there. Braxton Ashcraft has a
- 1:47Speaker 2: complete game, the eight innings. He's looked really, really good
- 1:50Speaker 2: his last few starts. Bubba Chandler has shown some improvement.
- 1:53Speaker 2: Jared Jones has been up and down. Mitch Keller, obviously,
- 1:57Speaker 2: gone on the injured list. That fifth spot is just
- 2:00Speaker 2: kind of a bullpen game now. Uh, carbon Majinsky hasn't
- 2:03Speaker 2: been that great with that spot. Um, but I'm not
- 2:05Speaker 2: going to judge it really on the fifth rotation spot. Um,
- 2:09Speaker 2: and yeah, Bubba Chandler has been better as a rookie. Uh,
- 2:12Speaker 2: what he's been showing improvement. So B is probably way
- 2:16Speaker 2: too optimistic, but at the same time, I, I've the
- 2:19Speaker 2: starting pitching hasn't been where my complaints have been since
- 2:23Speaker 2: the trade deadline. What about you, Josh?
- 2:27Speaker 3: Um, I was hovering around like this C plus kind
- 2:30Speaker 3: of B minus, obviously, because I'm kind of hard to
- 2:34Speaker 3: grade when you don't have a fifth starter. That's part
- 2:36Speaker 3: of the starting rotation. But within that, I think the
- 2:39Speaker 3: starters or the openers have, you know, done justice to
- 2:42Speaker 3: where it's like, you know what? They haven't really cost
- 2:45Speaker 3: any games. And as a whole, I think the starting
- 2:48Speaker 3: pitching could be better. We all know that. But obviously
- 2:51Speaker 3: Braxton Ashcraft has been a bright spot. but I don't
- 2:54Speaker 3: think one picture is enough to obviously, if you had
- 2:57Speaker 3: him and Paul, if Paul was, you know, the Paul
- 3:00Speaker 3: form that we had known previous years, I think those
- 3:03Speaker 3: two arms are enough to, you know, make this great higher,
- 3:06Speaker 3: but just with Braxton kind of carrying a load, obviously
- 3:09Speaker 3: Paul has had some better starts. And we mentioned Bubba
- 3:12Speaker 3: getting better throughout, you know, post. I still think, you know,
- 3:16Speaker 3: that C plus kind of be minus just based off
- 3:18Speaker 3: of Ashcraft has really been good kind of carrying a
- 3:21Speaker 3: load and, you know, the improvement of Bubba and, you know, Jared,
- 3:26Speaker 3: I kind of got, you know, C, C plus, not
- 3:29Speaker 3: really hurting the team, but could have helped the team
- 3:32Speaker 3: in some other areas, but not really something that we've
- 3:35Speaker 3: looked at, you know, the most that we've kind of
- 3:36Speaker 3: talked about obviously has been, you know, can Paul, you know,
- 3:39Speaker 3: figure out, you know, kind of his, you know, his
- 3:41Speaker 3: struggles and obviously Bubba and Jared getting better or picking up.
- 3:45Speaker 3: And obviously some of those things have been answered, but
- 3:47Speaker 3: like as a whole, I was sitting around like, been
- 3:50Speaker 3: average um nothing that's really killing you but you know
- 3:52Speaker 3: a little bit better than average if you say but
- 3:54Speaker 3: like not that killer like yeah y'all doing it but
- 3:58Speaker 3: like that c plus on the verge of maybe a
- 4:00Speaker 3: b minus.
- 4:02Speaker 1: I'm gonna be a lot harder uh because the expectation
- 4:06Speaker 1: was for this group to carry it from here on
- 4:08Speaker 1: out and they didn't uh i think we're forgetting how
- 4:12Speaker 1: bad paul skeens was for All but two starts since
- 4:16Speaker 1: the trade deadline. He had a really good start the
- 4:19Speaker 1: one time, and it made everyone feel a lot better
- 4:21Speaker 1: about him. And then he's had some outings. Yeah, he
- 4:23Speaker 1: looked good in his last outing, but he's still five
- 4:25Speaker 1: and a third. Only 87 pitches. He's looked like Paul
- 4:31Speaker 1: Skeens once since the trade deadline. So I wouldn't say
- 4:34Speaker 1: he's had an amazing stretch since post-deadline. Jared Jones has
- 4:39Speaker 1: been inconsistent. They've had two good starters. Braxton Ashcraft got
- 4:48Speaker 1: it going. And that's huge. There was even a stretch,
- 4:51Speaker 1: I believe, post-deadline where he was struggling too. But then
- 4:54Speaker 1: he quickly got it going. Braxton carries this group. And
- 4:59Speaker 1: Bubba continues to get better. And like you guys said,
- 5:02Speaker 1: the bullpen games have been really good. But I'm going
- 5:05Speaker 1: to give the bullpen credit for that. Not the starters.
- 5:08Speaker 4: So.
- 5:10Speaker 1: That's like Lake Baca.
- 5:11Speaker 5: Yeah, I can see where you're going.
- 5:13Speaker 2: I was going to say, there's our perfect transition. What's
- 5:15Speaker 2: your starting picture?
- 5:17Speaker 1: I'm going to give a D plus to the starting
- 5:19Speaker 1: rotation because they were supposed to be what turned it
- 5:23Speaker 1: on here. And they're not the primary source of blame,
- 5:27Speaker 1: but they didn't get better as a collective unit. They
- 5:31Speaker 1: got worse. The same or if not worse. I think
- 5:34Speaker 1: we're forgetting how bad early August was.
- 5:36Speaker 5: True.
- 5:37Speaker 1: But I'll keep it rolling now over into the relief pitching.
- 5:40Speaker 1: I give the bullpen an A-. They have been forced
- 5:43Speaker 1: to cover a lot more innings because they don't have
- 5:46Speaker 1: a fifth starter, and they've done super well there. Late
- 5:52Speaker 1: game situations aren't as scary anymore. I mean, their last
- 5:55Speaker 1: two wins, as we're recording this right before first pitch
- 5:58Speaker 1: on Tuesday night, they're winning one-nothing games now. They have
- 6:02Speaker 1: a ninth inning guy. I mean, Luke Weaver has been
- 6:05Speaker 1: maybe their worst relief pitcher post-deadline because he got poison
- 6:09Speaker 1: ivy in places we can't talk about. But they've survived it.
- 6:14Speaker 1: Could you imagine if their best relief pitcher, their guy, crumbled?
- 6:21Speaker 1: That's what plagued them all front half of the year.
- 6:25Speaker 1: The fact that they're getting by right now. I mean,
- 6:28Speaker 1: they're piecing it together. It's, it's looked really good. I mean,
- 6:31Speaker 1: it hasn't been perfect, but like, I think the bullpen
- 6:33Speaker 1: has probably been the best area of the team since
- 6:36Speaker 1: the trade deadline. So I give it an a minus it's,
- 6:39Speaker 1: it's made a dramatic improvement and it's probably the area
- 6:42Speaker 1: of the team. I feel most optimistic about heading into
- 6:45Speaker 1: next season. Yeah.
- 6:47Speaker 2: I'll follow that up and I'll, I'll go with an
- 6:50Speaker 2: a for the bullpen. Just the emergence of Mason Montgomery
- 6:54Speaker 2: has been so, so refreshing and, uh, just have a
- 6:58Speaker 2: guy that is been nails. I mean, he hasn't allowed
- 7:01Speaker 2: an earned run as I say that knock on wood. Um,
- 7:05Speaker 2: and what, like, I can't like two months or something crazy. Um,
- 7:09Speaker 2: it's been a awesome, awesome stretch for Montgomery. Um, but
- 7:13Speaker 2: also just overall, the bullpen Lake Bacher has looked really great.
- 7:17Speaker 2: We've mentioned the opener role. He's looked really good as
- 7:19Speaker 2: an opener. Um, and, uh, Isaac Madsen went to the
- 7:23Speaker 2: IL tonight. Um, not the best year for Madsen. We
- 7:26Speaker 2: get to see, uh, Britt Isert come up. We'll see
- 7:30Speaker 2: how that goes. Um, but yeah, I mean, overall the
- 7:32Speaker 2: bullpen is just, it's put them in and forget it. Uh,
- 7:37Speaker 2: so yeah, happy with the bullpen, especially with where they
- 7:40Speaker 2: were coming from before the trade deadline.
- 7:43Speaker 5: For sure.
- 7:44Speaker 3: Um, I was originally going to go like B plus,
- 7:47Speaker 3: but now that we're putting the opener towards the reliever,
- 7:50Speaker 3: I think that bumps them to a minus. Cause you know, obviously, um,
- 7:54Speaker 3: the bullpen is what they addressed during the trade deadline.
- 7:57Speaker 3: And at some point it was almost like, man, you're
- 7:59Speaker 3: acquired these guys and they didn't really get a chance
- 8:01Speaker 3: to do much. Obviously they were literally coming in and
- 8:05Speaker 3: some blowouts and it's like, man, you know, these guys,
- 8:08Speaker 3: as you mentioned, or really been carrying a load. But, um,
- 8:11Speaker 3: as you mentioned, I, I bumped into an A minus
- 8:14Speaker 3: just cause those openers kind of, I was considering a starter,
- 8:17Speaker 3: but now we're going to pull that back. Cause it
- 8:18Speaker 3: was the, you know, relievers covering it. So, um, I'm
- 8:21Speaker 3: hovering right around that A minus as well. They they've been,
- 8:24Speaker 3: as you said, the bright spot and they addressed it
- 8:27Speaker 3: during the deadline and it's obviously paying off.
- 8:30Speaker 1: All right, real quick, Josh, you can start us off
- 8:33Speaker 1: with your catcher grade. What do you got?
- 8:36Speaker 3: Man, I'm still going to stick with like a, I'm
- 8:39Speaker 3: going to be around a B, B plus because it's
- 8:41Speaker 3: two sides to it.
- 8:42Speaker 5: Defensively, obviously working with the relievers.
- 8:46Speaker 3: I think that in itself, they've had to flip from,
- 8:49Speaker 3: you know, getting through a struggle with a starting pitcher to,
- 8:52Speaker 3: getting relievers on board, obviously relievers that have been traded.
- 8:55Speaker 3: But then you look at Flores, I think it's been
- 8:57Speaker 3: a bright spot with Andy going down. And then even
- 9:00Speaker 3: Henry's come up with some timely hitting, you know? So
- 9:03Speaker 3: I think as far as what the catchers, what we
- 9:06Speaker 3: asked for them, I think offensively, you know, Flores has
- 9:11Speaker 3: kind of been, you know, kind of a bright spot,
- 9:13Speaker 3: obviously Andy, when he was healthy was helping, but you know,
- 9:16Speaker 3: I think the catching has kind of been one of
- 9:18Speaker 3: the brighter spots helping, you know, with the relievers and, defensively,
- 9:23Speaker 3: they've been good too. So I think that's something that's
- 9:25Speaker 3: obviously added a bonus in, you know, when the team
- 9:29Speaker 3: wasn't even going right, it was still like, you know,
- 9:31Speaker 3: the things that we were worried about weren't the issues.
- 9:34Speaker 5: You know what I mean? So that, that was kind
- 9:36Speaker 5: of cool to see.
- 9:37Speaker 3: I won't say cool to see, obviously should have been better,
- 9:39Speaker 3: but you know, the things that weren't the issues, at
- 9:41Speaker 3: least it was.
- 9:41Speaker 5: Like, you know what, the things that they wanted to
- 9:43Speaker 5: improve on, they did.
- 9:46Speaker 2: I'll follow that up. I'll go with the B minus
- 9:49Speaker 2: for catchers. I still think, there's some room for improvement.
- 9:52Speaker 2: Rafael Flores has been great behind the plate. His defense
- 9:56Speaker 2: is all right, but he's also been calling games a
- 9:59Speaker 2: lot better, looking a lot better. lot more comfortable back there,
- 10:01Speaker 2: which give him some time to grow. Henry Davis, the
- 10:06Speaker 2: bat just still is not there. Obviously, we're saying that
- 10:09Speaker 2: after he hit a home run to win a game,
- 10:11Speaker 2: won nothing.
- 10:14Speaker 5: Timely hit.
- 10:16Speaker 2: I think that's his only extra base hit since the
- 10:18Speaker 2: trade deadline. So at the same time, yeah, the recency
- 10:21Speaker 2: bias is right there, but it's been a tough stretch
- 10:24Speaker 2: for Henry. Obviously, he still provides a lot of value
- 10:27Speaker 2: with his defense, with his arm just keeping base runners
- 10:30Speaker 2: at bay off the base pass. He has such a
- 10:33Speaker 2: great pop time in Cannon. It's such a.
- 10:37Speaker 5: Weapon of his.
- 10:39Speaker 2: So if they can ever get Henry's back going, this
- 10:41Speaker 2: grade would be so much higher. But as far as
- 10:43Speaker 2: it stands, I think B-, and I'm not disappointed with
- 10:46Speaker 2: this position group at all.
- 10:49Speaker 1: Yeah, I think B- is a fair grade, Mark. I
- 10:52Speaker 1: just look at it like Rafael Flores has been one
- 10:55Speaker 1: of their better players since the trade deadline.
- 10:58Speaker 5: He's carrying it.
- 10:59Speaker 1: And again, when you take context into it, they needed
- 11:02Speaker 1: someone to step up there with Endy getting hurt. And yeah,
- 11:08Speaker 1: he's been good. 111 OPS plus heading into Tuesday's game.
- 11:13Speaker 1: That paired with what Hank can do defensively, you've got
- 11:15Speaker 1: a fine catcher thing. And it is funny, like what
- 11:18Speaker 1: Josh said, If the rest of this team that had
- 11:21Speaker 1: been winning games for the team all season long had
- 11:25Speaker 1: just maintained what it had been doing, this would be
- 11:29Speaker 1: a playoff team right now. Because the rotation was up
- 11:35Speaker 1: and down all year, I guess. But the guys that
- 11:37Speaker 1: we're going to talk about in this next segment, if
- 11:39Speaker 1: they could have just maintained what they'd been doing or
- 11:42Speaker 1: stayed healthy, I guess, then this is probably a playoff team.
- 11:45Speaker 1: But we'll get into that next here on Bucko Territory.
- 11:47Speaker 1: But first, a quick break.
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- 12:53Speaker 1: All right, so we pick it back up with the infield. Mark,
- 12:57Speaker 1: you can start here. I'm curious to hear what you
- 13:00Speaker 1: have to say.
- 13:00Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, this is a tough one because Brandon
- 13:06Speaker 2: Lau has been good. But outside of Brandon Lau, that's
- 13:10Speaker 2: about it. I think it's like a C minus and
- 13:12Speaker 2: that might even be generous. I might have the highest
- 13:15Speaker 2: grade here of the three of us. Spencer Horwich just
- 13:19Speaker 2: has not been able to get things back on track
- 13:22Speaker 2: after his injury. I think he's got like a 400
- 13:23Speaker 2: or OPS under 400.
- 13:25Speaker 1: He's a replacement level player.
- 13:28Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been really bad. So first base, that's concerning.
- 13:32Speaker 2: Brandon Lau at second base. And then your shortstop, you
- 13:36Speaker 2: finally have Connor Griffin back.
- 13:38Speaker 1: A lot better last week. Yeah.
- 13:41Speaker 5: Yeah.
- 13:42Speaker 2: So that's a lot better, but I mean, the, the
- 13:45Speaker 2: Gonzalez experiment just wasn't working at all. Maybe the best
- 13:50Speaker 2: option they had still, but just not great. And then
- 13:53Speaker 2: Nick Gonzalez over at their base, just the defensive mistakes
- 13:56Speaker 2: have continued to cost them games. His bat is cooled
- 14:00Speaker 2: down slightly. I mean, he is almost like a few
- 14:02Speaker 2: points out from the batting title with his batting average.
- 14:06Speaker 2: but at the same time, I just haven't been as
- 14:09Speaker 2: impressed with Nick Gonzalez enough to like bump up this grade.
- 14:12Speaker 2: So I think C minus might be a little generous
- 14:15Speaker 2: just because of what Brandon Lau has done, but it's
- 14:18Speaker 2: not been pretty here.
- 14:21Speaker 5: What about you, Josh? I'm going D.
- 14:26Speaker 3: You know, for me, I'm, I'm, I'm a stickler on
- 14:29Speaker 3: there's more than one side of the ball. And as
- 14:31Speaker 3: you mentioned, Brandon Lau has obviously been swinging it. Karen,
- 14:35Speaker 3: you know, doing what we expected him to do as
- 14:38Speaker 3: a second baseman, but, and Nick offensively has been good,
- 14:41Speaker 3: but I'm really big on defense. And that was one
- 14:44Speaker 3: of my things that I was really concerned about. And
- 14:49Speaker 3: I just think, um, this and then the next group
- 14:53Speaker 3: we talk about kind of go hand in hand, um,
- 14:56Speaker 3: not only defensively, but offensively, cause we have to factor in, um, yes, um,
- 15:02Speaker 3: They've swung it here decently against whatever. But facing lefties,
- 15:07Speaker 3: that alone, we know what the grade against lefties alone is.
- 15:10Speaker 3: So that right there is not good for a weighted
- 15:12Speaker 3: grade because in these games that, you know, you're facing
- 15:16Speaker 3: some guys that I'm not sitting here saying are power arms. But,
- 15:19Speaker 3: you know, if the lefties out there, it's a struggle.
- 15:21Speaker 3: And that is reflective, you know, of the offense. But
- 15:27Speaker 3: defensively doesn't help either. So it hasn't been pretty. And,
- 15:32Speaker 3: you know, yes, offense can win you games, but defense
- 15:35Speaker 3: can definitely win or lose you more if you don't
- 15:38Speaker 3: take care of the ball.
- 15:40Speaker 5: And it's been a lot of that. And that's a
- 15:43Speaker 5: lot of the reason why they are in the position
- 15:45Speaker 5: that they are.
- 15:48Speaker 1: Yeah, I go with a D as well. I mean,
- 15:49Speaker 1: Brandon Lau has been Brandon Lau all season. He is.
- 15:53Speaker 1: And I think that's the best way to summarize this.
- 15:55Speaker 5: And not to cut you off.
- 15:56Speaker 3: Sorry.
- 15:56Speaker 5: And I was going to say injuries obviously have affected
- 16:02Speaker 5: that too.
- 16:03Speaker 1: Correct. Yeah, I mean, they lost both of their first
- 16:06Speaker 1: basemen for an extended period of time. I mean, they're
- 16:12Speaker 1: without Horowitz and Lau, really. I mean, they're without the
- 16:15Speaker 1: good version of Horowitz. Yeah, because he's clearly not right.
- 16:19Speaker 1: And they were without O'Hearn, you know, who's– supposedly going
- 16:24Speaker 1: to be coming back here soon. Um, and then, yeah,
- 16:27Speaker 1: like what Mark said, I mean, Nick Gonzalez, I mean, it's,
- 16:29Speaker 1: it's great when you're hitting three 15 or whatever you're doing,
- 16:33Speaker 1: but like you can't, if you're not, if you're giving
- 16:37Speaker 1: away all those runs that you produce and you're just
- 16:39Speaker 1: an average player and they made a move to help
- 16:43Speaker 1: the shortstop position, but it just wasn't enough. And yeah, they,
- 16:49Speaker 1: as a group, I think they hurt the team more
- 16:51Speaker 1: than help. And, If you look back to when they
- 16:53Speaker 1: were winning games, Nick Gonzalez's offensive output outweighed the defense, um,
- 16:59Speaker 1: defensive mistakes. Spencer Horowitz was one of the best lead
- 17:02Speaker 1: off hitters in baseball. Ryan O'Hearn was healthy when he
- 17:04Speaker 1: was playing first base and then they had Connor Griffin.
- 17:07Speaker 1: And I mean, yeah, you, you lose some of those guys.
- 17:10Speaker 1: It puts more pressure on others to step up and
- 17:13Speaker 1: other guys didn't step up. So they get a D
- 17:15Speaker 1: and I'll keep it rolling. Now I'm going to give
- 17:17Speaker 1: it the outfield to D as well. Um, If there
- 17:20Speaker 1: is one person that deserves blame on this whole thing
- 17:24Speaker 1: not working out post-trade deadline, aside from Paul, it's Brian Reynolds.
- 17:30Speaker 1: He's their highest paid position player. He's their veteran in
- 17:34Speaker 1: the clubhouse. He's their most experienced player as far as
- 17:38Speaker 1: familiarity with the organization. It's healthy. He's done nothing. He's
- 17:43Speaker 1: done nothing since the All-Star break. He's hit like a
- 17:45Speaker 1: couple of meaningless home runs. I just, and I don't
- 17:48Speaker 1: even need stats to throw out because if you've been
- 17:50Speaker 1: watching this team remotely at all, you know, I mean,
- 17:53Speaker 1: he's been a ghost. And I mean, we were talking
- 17:56Speaker 1: about this guy in July, like he was poised to
- 17:58Speaker 1: have this career year. He's been as bad as he
- 18:02Speaker 1: was for as bad or for as good as he
- 18:05Speaker 1: was in the first half. He's been equally bad in
- 18:08Speaker 1: the second half, especially post trade deadline. He's yeah. He's
- 18:11Speaker 1: killed them. And this was the time where Brian Reynolds
- 18:14Speaker 1: needed to step up. And it just goes to show,
- 18:16Speaker 1: and I've said this on the show before, I've talked
- 18:18Speaker 1: to people in the Pirates organization. They said this about Reynolds.
- 18:21Speaker 1: He is a guy that needs lineup protection in order
- 18:23Speaker 1: to produce. And if you look at his best months,
- 18:26Speaker 1: it is when that lineup is fully healthy. And that's
- 18:29Speaker 1: not an indictment on a guy. That's the case for
- 18:31Speaker 1: a lot of big league hitters. Of course, you're going
- 18:33Speaker 1: to hit better when you're surrounded by good hitters, but
- 18:35Speaker 1: they're paying him to be better than that. They're paying
- 18:38Speaker 1: him to be the guy that makes other people better
- 18:40Speaker 1: offensively in the lineup. And if you look, Every year.
- 18:44Speaker 1: When did Brian Reynolds heat up last year? It was
- 18:45Speaker 1: at the end of last season when Spencer Horowitz was
- 18:48Speaker 1: healthy and Nick Gonzalez was healthy and he had, and
- 18:51Speaker 1: he had a little bit of lineup protection, right? So it's,
- 18:55Speaker 1: it's no coincidence. You look at it like, when does
- 18:57Speaker 1: he struggle most? It's when he doesn't have O'Neill to
- 18:59Speaker 1: protect him. It's when he doesn't have Connor Griffin to
- 19:02Speaker 1: protect him or, you know, Ryan O'Hearn, like all of
- 19:05Speaker 1: those guys. And obviously that's okay in a sense where
- 19:09Speaker 1: it's like, yes, that, it's, it's a realistic excuse, I guess,
- 19:13Speaker 1: but just like, this is why they pay you that
- 19:16Speaker 1: money to step up to say, get on my back.
- 19:19Speaker 1: I'm carrying the team. We're, we're banged up, but like
- 19:23Speaker 1: other people got to step up. Roe Flores shouldn't be
- 19:25Speaker 1: the one stepping up dog. It should be like Jacob Gonzalez.
- 19:29Speaker 1: Shouldn't be asked to like carry the load here. It's, it's,
- 19:32Speaker 1: it's you. You're a two time all star. You're making
- 19:35Speaker 1: the most money out of anyone playing in the outfield
- 19:37Speaker 1: right now. Anyone playing in the field, And for you
- 19:40Speaker 1: to put forth your worst showing, that's tough. O'Neal's been
- 19:45Speaker 1: great since he's been back. Jake Mangum has been Jake Mangum.
- 19:48Speaker 1: Esmeralda Valdez has not been very good at all since
- 19:50Speaker 1: the trade deadline, but he's a freaking rookie, and that's okay.
- 19:55Speaker 1: To me, this grade is pretty much a whole focus
- 20:00Speaker 1: on Brian Reynolds because they needed him to be great,
- 20:03Speaker 1: and he's pissed down his leg. Yep.
- 20:06Speaker 2: I'll follow that up. I'll go C- again. Just to
- 20:10Speaker 2: build off the Brian Reynolds point, Noah, he only has
- 20:14Speaker 2: eight RBIs since the All-Star Pack. 650 OPS, just not
- 20:22Speaker 2: what you're needing at all from a guy who's supposed
- 20:25Speaker 2: to be a bat-first player. So that's been super disappointing.
- 20:29Speaker 2: O'Neal Cruz, though, coming back from injury, has been.
- 20:32Speaker 1: Awesome.
- 20:33Speaker 2: This is the O'Neal Cruz I've always wanted to see
- 20:36Speaker 2: as a fan. Just that potential. I feel like he's
- 20:39Speaker 2: finally starting to scratch it a little bit. He just
- 20:43Speaker 2: looks comfortable, confident. We talked about that a little bit
- 20:46Speaker 2: last episode, and I'm really impressed with what I'm seeing
- 20:49Speaker 2: with Cruz on both sides of the ball. And same
- 20:53Speaker 2: with Jake Mangum. Like you said, he's Jake Mangum. Lots
- 20:57Speaker 2: of effort behind Filled in admirably while O'Neal Cruz was
- 21:01Speaker 2: out after the lesser break. Yeah, not admirably. Yeah, he
- 21:05Speaker 2: did exactly what you're supposed to.
- 21:07Speaker 5: Yeah.
- 21:08Speaker 2: And, yeah, Valdez, that's been tough. But you can see
- 21:12Speaker 2: the growth, at least. You can see him making the adjustments.
- 21:15Speaker 2: He's still staying patient. I still like his approach at
- 21:17Speaker 2: the plate. I think the results will come. I like
- 21:21Speaker 2: the work he's putting in. So, yeah, C- for me. Josh,
- 21:25Speaker 2: how do you grade this outfield?
- 21:27Speaker 3: I said it in our previous segment. It was going
- 21:29Speaker 3: to be kind of hand-in-hand with infielders. So D could
- 21:34Speaker 3: possibly be a D-plus just from the standpoint there's been
- 21:37Speaker 3: a little bit more bright spots, as you said. I
- 21:39Speaker 3: don't think O'Neal's been back enough to really push his
- 21:41Speaker 3: grade forward that much, but it's been nice to see that.
- 21:43Speaker 3: And as you said, Mangum did what he was supposed to,
- 21:46Speaker 3: filling in. And as I said, you need more out
- 21:51Speaker 3: of those guys as a whole because it really hasn't been–
- 21:55Speaker 3: you know, the best going forward. And obviously I told
- 21:58Speaker 3: the left-handed, you know, the left-handed pitchers was really an eyesore.
- 22:03Speaker 3: And then obviously not taking care of the ball as
- 22:05Speaker 3: a whole defensively doesn't help. But so that's why I
- 22:08Speaker 3: said they're hovering right around the same. And if anything,
- 22:10Speaker 3: O'Neal might push them to a D plus just from
- 22:13Speaker 3: his little recent play, but it, you know, he hasn't
- 22:15Speaker 3: really been there enough to really say he's really played
- 22:18Speaker 3: post trade deadline. So it's not really like he's affecting
- 22:20Speaker 3: their grade.
- 22:22Speaker 1: Yeah.
- 22:23Speaker 6: So.
- 22:24Speaker 1: Worth mentioning also, they also were without Ryan O'Hearn. But again,
- 22:31Speaker 1: this is a group unlike the infield where it's like
- 22:36Speaker 1: they have guys who can potentially impact the game defensively.
- 22:40Speaker 1: Defense was never a part of the calling card for
- 22:42Speaker 1: this group. And when the offense goes to hell... this
- 22:46Speaker 1: is the group that deserves playing first, not the infield,
- 22:48Speaker 1: especially because Lau is still a part of the infield.
- 22:50Speaker 5: Well, I was.
- 22:51Speaker 3: Going to say, ultimately, what Lau did for the infield,
- 22:54Speaker 3: you would hope Reynolds would have did for the outfield.
- 22:56Speaker 5: Like, you know, you got, you know, Lau holding.
- 22:58Speaker 3: It down until, you know, Conner's back, Reynolds holding it
- 23:01Speaker 3: down to O'Neal and O'Hart.
- 23:02Speaker 5: Like, you still got a guy in both areas. Yeah.
- 23:07Speaker 1: That extra bat was missing. Yep. Especially with those two
- 23:12Speaker 1: at the two and three spot. It would have been nice. DH,
- 23:17Speaker 1: real quick. I mean, honestly, I might just give it
- 23:22Speaker 1: an A because Marcelo Zuna is not there anymore.
- 23:23Speaker 2: That was literally the exact thought I had.
- 23:26Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm just going to say incomplete because
- 23:29Speaker 1: it's like, who is their DH?
- 23:30Speaker 2: Yeah, not available.
- 23:32Speaker 1: Right. I mean, it's just kind of a rotating spot.
- 23:35Speaker 5: TBD, like the fifth starter.
- 23:38Speaker 1: Yeah. Pretty much. It's a bullpen game, yeah. And honestly,
- 23:42Speaker 1: that's kind of– what it should have been all year.
- 23:44Speaker 2: I was going to say that's good.
- 23:46Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. But right now it's, it's not as impactful
- 23:51Speaker 1: because like the guys who they could have been DHing
- 23:54Speaker 1: probably would have stayed healthy if they did, uh, weren't
- 23:58Speaker 1: here for it. So we're going to take another quick break.
- 24:01Speaker 1: When we come back, we will round up the show
- 24:04Speaker 1: by evaluating coaching here on Bucko territory.
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- 25:11Speaker 1: All right. Mark, I'll start with you again.
- 25:15Speaker 2: Putting me on the hot seat here.
- 25:17Speaker 1: Yeah.
- 25:17Speaker 5: Oh, I mean, I'll be.
- 25:18Speaker 1: Yeah, go ahead. I want you to start. Yeah.
- 25:22Speaker 2: All right. I guess let's see if I have to
- 25:26Speaker 2: think about it that hard. I don't think coaching necessarily
- 25:31Speaker 2: was bad or good. I will say Bill Murphy. I've
- 25:36Speaker 2: liked what I've heard the players say about him since
- 25:39Speaker 2: we last gave these grades. Yeah, especially recently.
- 25:42Speaker 1: I wonder why they started talking about it a whole bunch.
- 25:45Speaker 2: Right, yeah.
- 25:46Speaker 1: That was a forced narrative.
- 25:47Speaker 5: Yes, maybe.
- 25:49Speaker 2: But I do like the narrative that was forced upon
- 25:52Speaker 2: us as a fan. Yeah, but just looking at the
- 25:56Speaker 2: results of this bullpen, if this bullpen's going from, I
- 26:01Speaker 2: forget what we gave them, probably a D or something,
- 26:04Speaker 2: to now all giving them As, I do think Mason
- 26:07Speaker 2: Montgomery can at least say, you know, Bill Murphy had
- 26:10Speaker 2: something to do with it. maybe it seems like it.
- 26:15Speaker 2: So C for that, Don Kelly has been all right.
- 26:19Speaker 2: I don't think I can really blame him for anything.
- 26:21Speaker 2: I don't know if there's much more he could have
- 26:24Speaker 2: done with the roster that was given to him and
- 26:27Speaker 2: managing all the injuries and everything. I think that's been
- 26:31Speaker 2: pretty good as far as, I mean, like bullpen management
- 26:34Speaker 2: seems to be better the second half at least. But again,
- 26:37Speaker 2: nothing that's, you know, jumping off the page being like, yeah,
- 26:41Speaker 2: we need to bring Don Kelly back this year. This,
- 26:43Speaker 2: this guy's a difference maker. Like I like the guy,
- 26:46Speaker 2: but it just, nothing has really swayed me one way
- 26:50Speaker 2: or the other. What about you, Noah?
- 26:53Speaker 1: I like how he's maneuvered with the bullpen and the
- 26:56Speaker 1: bullpen games. Um, I wrote down some of the things,
- 26:59Speaker 1: I mean, I think their decision to give Paul that
- 27:01Speaker 1: extra rest made him better. So that's good. Um, it's
- 27:07Speaker 1: hard to fault him for like the left-handed hitter stuff.
- 27:09Speaker 1: Because again, like, it's just like, what do they have
- 27:12Speaker 1: to work with right now? Um, so yeah, I think
- 27:15Speaker 1: I'll probably go like the errors. Yeah. It's just like,
- 27:19Speaker 1: where do you play them? Like, what do you, what
- 27:20Speaker 1: do you do? Like, you're not scoring runs. You can't
- 27:23Speaker 1: take Nick Gonzalez out of the line. Um, I, I
- 27:26Speaker 1: don't blame him for making Brian Reynolds a bad hitter
- 27:30Speaker 1: in the most important stretch of the year. Uh, I
- 27:34Speaker 1: do blame him a little bit for maybe babying O'Neal
- 27:36Speaker 1: Cruz when he came back off the IL. And like
- 27:39Speaker 1: you said, Mark, I really just struggle to find areas
- 27:42Speaker 1: where Don Kelly won this team game. I know players
- 27:44Speaker 1: win the games, but good coaches, good managers, they figure
- 27:48Speaker 1: out a way to kind of put the puzzle together
- 27:51Speaker 1: when it's that, you know, they find a Josh Harrison
- 27:53Speaker 1: and send them out the right field and see what happens.
- 27:55Speaker 1: And sometimes it saves your season. And, uh, Obviously, there's
- 27:59Speaker 1: not a five-war guy on the bench on this team.
- 28:02Speaker 1: If there was, he'd be playing every day, but that's
- 28:04Speaker 1: just the example I was using because he's right in
- 28:06Speaker 1: front of my face. Overall, the point I'm trying to
- 28:09Speaker 1: make is I haven't seen, like what you said, anything
- 28:12Speaker 1: that shows me if John Kelly is a good manager.
- 28:16Speaker 1: I've seen him make some mistakes where he's a bad manager. Overall,
- 28:21Speaker 1: it's just like he needed to step up. It was
- 28:25Speaker 1: an unfair thing, and he wasn't any worse, but I
- 28:29Speaker 1: don't know. I don't think he was better enough to
- 28:31Speaker 1: like overcome the crappy hand he was dealt. So I'll, yeah, I'll,
- 28:35Speaker 1: I'll guess I'll go like C minus Josh round us
- 28:38Speaker 1: out here. Yeah.
- 28:40Speaker 5: I'm going to go right at that C, um, right
- 28:43Speaker 5: in the middle.
- 28:44Speaker 3: As you said, there's, there's, it's kind of hard to
- 28:46Speaker 3: place blame or fault on, you know, Don, um, you know,
- 28:50Speaker 3: he did, he's doing what he, what he can with
- 28:52Speaker 3: what the, what he has, but, um, Coaching is everything.
- 28:56Speaker 3: And I look at the team as a whole. And yes,
- 28:58Speaker 3: the players are the one out there playing. They are
- 29:00Speaker 3: the ones that need to be, you know, really being accountable,
- 29:03Speaker 3: looking in the mirror. But I also leave it at
- 29:07Speaker 3: that C because I think it really could have been
- 29:09Speaker 3: a B, honestly, if, you know, I'm not talking, you know,
- 29:16Speaker 3: physical mistakes. When there are mental mistakes that continue to happen,
- 29:21Speaker 3: there's got to be something that has to come from
- 29:24Speaker 3: Sometimes it might not be coming from the manager. It
- 29:27Speaker 3: might need to be a position coach. A, these mental
- 29:29Speaker 3: errors that are happening facing the lefties. Yeah, Don, DK's
- 29:34Speaker 3: the manager. He's right in the lineup.
- 29:37Speaker 5: You know, got to take it amongst position coaches sometimes.
- 29:40Speaker 3: You know, we talked about certain things, but as you mentioned,
- 29:43Speaker 3: they didn't really have many, you know, guys that had
- 29:46Speaker 3: experience against lefties. So at the same time, you're trying
- 29:49Speaker 3: to figure out, put this piece, this puzzle together with
- 29:53Speaker 3: a lot of uncertainty. But I think in those moments,
- 29:56Speaker 3: I'm not blaming them for trying to piece something with
- 29:59Speaker 3: uncertainty because you have to see what you have. But
- 30:02Speaker 3: when mental mistakes continue to happen, I think that are
- 30:06Speaker 3: things that need to be paid attention to, especially when
- 30:08Speaker 3: you know you got guys playing out of position. You
- 30:10Speaker 3: might have to talk to them like they're a kindergartner.
- 30:13Speaker 3: It might seem like it is a slap in the face,
- 30:16Speaker 3: but one of the greatest coaches said you have to
- 30:20Speaker 3: assume your players know nothing because if you're talking to everybody,
- 30:24Speaker 3: One person might be here, but somebody else might be.
- 30:27Speaker 3: So when you're playing guys out of position, you have
- 30:31Speaker 3: to hone in that much more. And I just think
- 30:33Speaker 3: a little bit more attention to detail could have got
- 30:35Speaker 3: this grade a little higher, which I get it's a
- 30:39Speaker 3: long season. But I don't fault, as I said, DK
- 30:42Speaker 3: or the position coaches because you got a lot of
- 30:45Speaker 3: things moving. But I think they did the best with
- 30:47Speaker 3: what they could, but they could have done a little
- 30:49Speaker 3: bit more.
- 30:50Speaker 1: Yep.
- 30:50Speaker 6: Yep.
- 30:51Speaker 1: And on the note of attention to detail, one detail
- 30:53Speaker 1: I want everyone to pay attention to is that subscribe button.
- 30:56Speaker 1: Go ahead and hit it for me if you haven't already.
- 30:58Speaker 1: We're on a mission to 3,000 subs. Can't get there
- 31:00Speaker 1: without your help. Also want to encourage everyone to check
- 31:03Speaker 1: out the Bucko Territory Team Store. Got a lot of
- 31:05Speaker 1: good stuff there for you to purchase. Guys, any final
- 31:09Speaker 1: thoughts as we wrap up another show?
- 31:13Speaker 5: That was a smooth transition, and shout out your boy Dalton. Yeah,
- 31:17Speaker 5: shout out Dalton.
- 31:17Speaker 2: Just glad to have Noah back. Yeah, we miss you.
- 31:19Speaker 1: Yes. I miss you guys. I miss you guys. Yeah,
- 31:24Speaker 1: final thoughts would be see what happens if they go
- 31:27Speaker 1: 4-2 this week in Chicago. Come back to Pittsburgh with
- 31:31Speaker 1: a 500 record. Keep us paying attention. Let's see what happens.
- 31:39Speaker 1: He's Platinum Key, a.k.a. Mark. He's Josh Harrison. I'm Noah Hiles.
- 31:42Speaker 1: We're signing off saying thanks for tuning in to another
- 31:44Speaker 1: episode of Bucko Territory presented to you by the Foul
- 31:47Speaker 1: Territory Network.
- 31:48Speaker 5: Take care.
- 31:56Speaker 3: Thank you.