Latest / Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond / Ben Kweller

Transcript

Ben Kweller · Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond

• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hey, this is Justin Richmond from the Broken Record podcast.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Join me this June for a live taping of Broken
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Record at the Tribeca Festival. We're all bee in conversation
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: with Infinity Song, a New York based soft rock band
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: comprised of four siblings who will also be doing a
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: couple of songs for us. You'll hear the artist and
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: a career spanning conversation about their inspirations and dynamic styles.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: We'll be at the SVA Theater on June twelve at
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: eight thirty pm. Defund tickets. Visit tribecafilm dot com slash
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Broken Record all lowercase. That's tribecafilm dot com slash Broken Record.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Hope to see there. For close to three decades, Benkqueler's
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: been crafting deeply personal indie rock that's both intimate and expansive,
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: from his early days fronting the band Radish as a
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: teenager in the nineties to his acclaimed solo career that
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: began in the early two thousands, He's consistently delivered songs
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: that feel raw, honest, and almost conversational. But his latest album,
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: Covered the Mirrors finds Ben in a different place entirely.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: This isn't just another collection of songs. It's an unflinching
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: examination of grief, healing, and the complicated process of moving
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: forward after unimaginable loss. In today's episode, we'll talk with
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: Ben about the loss of his teenage son Dorian, how
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: Ben and his family embraced grief and managed to not
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: retreat from their lives and work, and what it means
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: to return to making and releasing music. We'll also talk
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: about Ben's journey through the music industry, from bidding wars
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: with his first band that led to him performing for
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: idols like Tom Petty at a private party in Malibu,
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: to going independent and moving to his ranch in Texas.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: This is broken record, real musicians, real conversations. This episode
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: is brought to you by Defender, a vehicle engineered to
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: meet challenges head on so you can explore with confidence.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: Adventure Seekers and takers can explore the full Defender lineup
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: at land ROVERUSA dot com. Here's my conversation with Ben
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: Queler from his ranch outside of Austin. It's like amazing
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: to be you have a beautiful spot.
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: It's like it's in a beautiful part of the country. Yeah,
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: it's beautiful. This bactual physical space we're in.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: Thank you. Yeah. This barn was actually moved here from
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: Fourth and Lavaca in downtown Austin. It was part of
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: the Missouri Pacific Railroad station in the eighteen eighties and
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: it was moved here in the nineteen eighties as just
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: a horse barn. But it was like four of these
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: long classic Texas hill country story. It was like, you know,
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: four of these long and there were four brothers and
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: each brother got a quarter of the barn. You know.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: It's like it's like that kind of thing. I don't
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: know where the other sections are, like if they are
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: still around or what, but.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: Be interesting to track down if it's possible.
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: Exactly you know it was here on this property is
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: just a horse barn. This front wall over here was
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: just wide open to the elements. And so when we
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: moved to this property, we just used it just as
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: you know, bicycles and punching bags and kids would our
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: boys would skateboard in here, and so it was just
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: like a just a gnarly garage space. And then last
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: year we decided to renovate it and really turn it
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: into a studio. So we put a front wall on it.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: This is only a year's worth of work.
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it took about a year. Yeah, And a lot
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: of this wood is old wood, and you know, you
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: can see the old and the new kind of feathered
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: in together. And then these huge columns, the blue columns.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: There's six of those, so that's like the original structure.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: I like the old and the new mixtent though, and
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: I also like that, you know, it's all just everything's
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: in flux, you know.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: And I just love thinking about, like all the energy
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: of the people that have come and gone through this
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: building on a train.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: It's very fun to imagine that stuff. You know, you
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: can just sit and think about it forever. I'll never
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: crack it, but now just can only all you can
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: do is imagine.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: That's it.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: Do you know why this was moved here in eighty one?
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: Well, so the ranch originally was the hurl Butt Ranch.
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: There's a really famous Central Texas family, the hurl Butts.
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: So this was originally like thousands of acres back in
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: the day. And in fact, the first Willie Nelson's picnic
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: was out here about a mile down the road, but
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: on the hurl Butt ranch.
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: Because they were friends the hurl Butts and Willie and
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: so there's a lot of history on this land. When
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: we found this property was twenty fifteen and it just
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: sat on the market for a year and no one
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: really wanted it. We were in the middle of a drought,
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: and we always kind of had that My wife and
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: I had that dream search of like okay, we want
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: like some acreage, an old house, and some water, natural water.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: And this came up and we kind of watched it,
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: and but it was really far away from Austin. We
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: were living downtown Austin at the time. And we came
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: and looked looked at the property and it was so cool,
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: like but it was one of those things where every
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: structure on the property was worse than the next and
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: so like it was just like it needed so much work.
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: Windows were busted in the main house. There were deer
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: living inside like animals. Like it was gnarly. It was
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: like a ghost house, but you could tell it was
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: really cool, you know, like if you just put some
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: love into it. Bones it had good bones, exactly, And
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: so we went for it. And we originally didn't think
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: we would live here. We just knew we wanted to
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: have a creative space, you know, recording music, making art,
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: a little retreat type vibe. And the more we came
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: out here and the more we realized that, well, we
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: don't really have a nine to five job, you know,
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: we can kind of be anywhere. We were like, let's
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: just move full time. So in twenty eighteen we moved
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: to the main house, which I'll walk you over there
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: in a little while, and we just loved it. We
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: loved being out in the country. We're about forty five
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: minutes west of Austin, and yeah, I just I can't
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: imagine not living where I do. And I think also
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: just you know, being a touring artist, you know, I'm
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: always in cities, just like all the time, and so
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: it really is fun to land at the airport and
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: in an hour, I'm back here with the trees and
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: the sky and the birds and now the studio.
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and your whole life is kind of an odd
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: mix of urban in country totally. Oh yeah, it is.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: I'm a little bit of this, a little bit of that,
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: you know. That's always and you know, my mom always
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: said it was because I'm a Gemini, because she's all
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: into that stuff astrology and geminized the twins, and so
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: we were really good at seeing both sides of every coin.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: And my wife Liz a libro, which is the balance.
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: So we actually work really well together, and you know,
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: we hardly fight because we kind of just like see
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: each other's point of view really easily, which is nice.
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: But I just remember that I didn't really answer your question.
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: So why was this bar moved here? So it was
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: the hurl Butt ranch and it was just land. And
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty one, this local legend, Bobby Stevens, bought
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: this parcel of land, which is thirty acres because the
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: hurl Butt family eventually, like you know, divvied it up
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: and who knows what happened, you know, thousands of acres
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: became just little plots. So Bobby Stevens bought this ranch
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: thirty acres and he was driving in Austin and saw
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: wrecking ball about to knock over this Victorian house. So
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: he jumped out of his pickup truck nineteen eighty one,
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: was like, yo, what are you guys doing with that
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: wrecking ball? And they said, oh, well the bank, the
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: bank needs it gone by six pm, you know, and
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: and Bobby was like, well, can I have it? Like
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: it's a house, you know. He's like, can I have it?
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: And they were like, well, if you give us, you know,
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: a thousand bucks, sure, and so he was like, all right,
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: I'll be right back. And so he gave him a
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: thousand bucks, chain saw down the center of the house,
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: put it on two flatbed trailers and moved it out here.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: So the house was moved here from West sixth Street
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: in Austin.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: And on did he do that all in the four
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: to six pms?
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: Like pretty much? He at least got it off the property. Yeah,
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: Like this guy Bobby can do anything, Like he is
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: just the epitome of like can fix anything and just
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: has that drive and determination, you know. So he moved
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: the house here and he lived here for a long time.
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: And then shortly after they found this barn you know,
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: from the railroad station and moved it here. And then
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: there's a little house on the other end of the property,
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: which we call the Happy House, which is where the
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: band stays when we're rehearsing or if I'm producing an album,
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: the artist has lodging and that was moved here from Austin,
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: which is actually even crazier because it's from the Zilker
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: neighborhood like a block away from where my family lived
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: in Austin. So when we saw this property, we're just like, what,
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: like that place is from Zilker And there were just
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: so many little signs you know that's just pointed to
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: this being home for us.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: That's great. Are you a person that's always looked for
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: signs and things to know what.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: The ve always I've always been aware of them and
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: felt energies from things that happen and numbers and patterns,
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: and I mean, gosh, I guess actually going back now
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: that I think about it, to the way I started
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: writing songs when I was about eight, just like every
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: other American kid, I learned heart and soul. Someone showed
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: me how to play it dunda dun da dun da
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: dun da dud d dante and that just repeats. And
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: so I noticed, like, okay, well it's in the key
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: of C, which I didn't know at the time, but
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: I'm just seeing the white keys and you play this chord,
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: you skip one, go down, play the next one, skip one,
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: go down, play the next one, and go up one.
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: And so I'm like, okay, I see that pattern. And
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: I said, well, what if you don't play the second chord,
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: you go from the first chord to the third chord
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: and then up to the second chord and then the
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: fourth chord. And that sounded like let it be because
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: I was a big Beatles fan because my dad, that's
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: all he played was the Beadles and Hendrix and the Hollies,
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: like a lot of British invasion rock and roll. That's
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: what I grew up on. And so I'm like, wow,
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: so let it be is heart and soul, kind of
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: inside out. So then I was like, all right, dude,
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: well skip the second and third chord. Let's go from
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: the first chord to the fourth chord, then the second chord,
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: then the third chord. And that sounded like a progression
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: I'd never heard before. Meanwhile, there's thousands of songs with
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: that progression, you know. But at eight years old, I
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: was like, wow, this is incredible. And so I wrote
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: my first song, and I would just sing about girls
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: in love because that's what the Beatles sing about. So
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: I'm like, you write love songs. I guess that's what
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: you do. You know, That's all I knew. And so
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: that's how it started. And so you know, I'm very
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: visually inclined. But yeah, signs are you know, I've always
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: sort of felt them and seen a little deeper, I
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: guess than what's there. I'm really curious person. I like
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: to know how things work. I like to kind of
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: peek behind the curtain and really know about life and
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: what the hell is all this? You know. I mean,
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: it's not a very novel thing to say, but that's
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: just kind of who I am.
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: That's still essential to who you are.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: And then like from a spiritual level, like I've always
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: just sort of been fascinated about like what's beyond, you know,
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: what is out around us that I don't see?
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know you were raised Jewish, right, Yeah, you
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: were born in.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: San Francisco, born in San fran.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: And then reared in Texas.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: Reared in Texas.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't really know you were born in San
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: fran But once I learned that, there was a lot
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: about you that makes a little more sense, okay, in
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: the way that like that, like well even just your
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: dad raising listening to British Invasion music primarily, and you
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: can hear a lot of that in totally what you
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: do for sure, And so would seem to me being
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: raised in the Jewish faith in San Francisco at easier
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: than out here in Texas.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean we were the only Jewish family
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: in Greenville, which is a small town that we moved to,
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: and so yeah, I definitely, like, you know, remember hanging
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: out with kids who were like, you're going to go
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: to Hell? And I'm like, really, like what's hell all about? Like,
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: you know, because we didn't really you don't really talk
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: much about Hell in Judaism. But yeah, we left San
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: francisc go when I was six months old. My dad's
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: a doctor. He did his residency in San fran and
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: I was born there and he was part of the
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: Rural Health Service, which back in the late seventies early eighties,
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: the government would help pay for medical school as long
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: as you served in a rural community after medical school.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: So he did his residency in San Fran and he
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: would get all these offers like, hey, there's a town
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: in Ohio or Pennsylvania, are you interested in that? And
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: then one came along it's like there's a town in
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: Texas that's never had a doctor. And my dad was
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: like that sounds cool, like you know, the wild West
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: or something, and so they came to Texas. I was
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: six months old, so he was doc like. He was
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: just like everyone's doctor, pediatrics, geriatrics, calm and cold, like
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: even like minor surgeries.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: If need be, you know what I mean.
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: Well, I think they would for deliveries. They would at
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: least go to the hospital, which is like forty five
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: minutes away. But you know, he did a lot, like
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: he's a beast my dad. As a kid, I remember
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: just like feeling cool, like to be able to say, well,
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: I was born in California, Like there was just something
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: cool about California.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: You know, do you remember the feeling when you came here?
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: Well, no, I was six months old. Oh never mind,
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: I remember no feeling.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: Never mind. Yeah, that'd be a small miracle, ya, No.
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: I mean the first memory of San Francisco really was
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: probably playing a gig there for the first time with
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: my band Radish. You know, like in the nineties, I
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: had this s grunge band. I was in high school.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: I was fifteen, and yeah, we went on tour.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: What was the origin of Radish, by the way.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the origin of Radish kind of goes back to
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: me sitting at the piano and writing songs. Okay. So
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: I always say the Beatles made me write songs and
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: Nirvana made me start a band, and so I'll never forget.
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: I was actually at the skating rink in Greenville, Texas,
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: and smells like teen Spirit came on, and I remember
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: exactly like where I was, like making this turn at
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: one end of the skating the roller rink and I
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: literally had to pull over and like hold onto the sidewalks.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: I'm like, what the fuck is this? Like this is
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: the coolest music I've ever heard, And so I skated
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: around a lap back to the DJ booth and I
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: was like, what is this? And he pulled up the
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: CD with the little baby on and the dollar bill.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: I was like, dude, this is band Ravana. It's really cool.
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: I was like yeah, And so, like I went to
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: the record store the next day and got that CD,
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: and I was like, all right, well I need to
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: start a band like this, you know, game over and
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: I figured that all you need to have is three people.
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: You know, bass, drums and guitar is the bare necessities.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: It's like, you know, every stool, every chair like needs
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: a minimum of three legs. It's like, well, okay, rock band,
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: it's kind of the same thing, and so I started,
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: you know, in my town, there weren't a lot of musicians,
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: but eventually I met a drummer and bass player who
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: were great, and we had different band names, but eventually
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: it became radish and so I got to kind of
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: back up a little bit. So, you know, small town
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: kid in Texas writing songs, how do you even you know,
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: get out there?
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: And I started trying to get gigs. Literally, I'd look
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: in the Yellow Pages and like look for places to play.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: In Greenville, Texas was a dry town, so there were
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: like no clubs or bars. But I would call plays
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: like the Bowling Alley and be like, hey, I got
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: a band, can we come play? And They're like, no,
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: we're a bowling alley or like Putt putt golf. Like
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: I'm just trying to think of any place where like
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: I could set up my band, you know, And eventually
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: there was this pool hall called Chauncey's Place. And dude,
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: I might have been like twelve or thirteen at this time,
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: and I remember calling Chauncey. I would just cold call people.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: I mean, like I was little entrepreneur, dude, like at
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: twelve and Chauncey himself picked up the phone. I was like, hey,
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: my name's Ben. I got this band called Radish and
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: we really would love to come play a gig. He's like, well,
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: y'all any good. I'm like, yes, sir, we're really good.
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: And I was like, in fact, I can play you
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: a song right now over the phone. Oh way, and
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: he kind of chuckled because he was like in his
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: fifties or something. He's like yeah, He's like, okay, go ahead,
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: you know what I mean, because he was just getting
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: a kick out of this whole thing. And so, you know,
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: old school like holding the phone between my shoulder and
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: my ear, grabbed my guitar and I play him a
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: song and he's like that is pretty good. All right.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: Next Thursday, you got your own gig, you know. And
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: so that was our first concert. That was in nineteen
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: ninety four. I still have the flyer wow for it.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: And so then eventually that led to gigs in Dallas
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: and we started playing in the Dallas scene a lot.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: And in the nineties there's a neighborhood in Dallas called
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: Deep Elam, which is iconic neighborhood for music, and in
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: the nineties it was really a great place, a great scene,
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: and I pretty much spent every weekend. As soon as
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: I got my driver's license, I would just go there
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: for the weekend, just like watch shows or play shows.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: Tripping Daisy the Toadies, like a lot of great bands
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: were out of that scene.
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: And Tripping Daisy was the precursor.
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: To Polyphonic Spree, right, exactly amazing, And so you know,
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: we started playing gigs. Now, Meanwhile, there's a really important
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: part to my story because we didn't you know, it's
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: like we didn't really know anyone in the music business
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: except one person, and this person is so crucial to
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: the story. So rewind back to the sixties. My dad's
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: a drummer in high school and it's the high school
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: talent show and my dad's band plays some cover songs
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: or whatever, and then this kid gets up the next
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: act and does an accordion a medleyon accordion of Beatles songs,
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: and it's like incredible, and everyone's like, oh my god,
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: that was Who is this guy? And so they went
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: and introduced themselves. His name was Nils Nils Lofgren. So
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: it turns out, you know, Nils Lofkin is one of
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: the best guitar players of all time. He plays in
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: the East Street Band with Springsteen. He has played with
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: Neil Young, Crazy Horse like just such a legend. Also
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: has an incredible catalog of solo records which I also
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: grew up on with my dad playing those. So Grinn
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: is like the coolest like garage rock band ever that
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: no one knows so good. I'm so happy you mentioned that.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: Just made my heart. Loved the shine. So my dad
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: and Nils became friends. My dad had the basement, so
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: they started a new band called the Radical Five. They
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: were also a trio, just three of them, but they
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: thought that was cool, the Radical Five, but there's only
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: three Like that was psychedelic, bro, you know what I mean.
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: And so they would play my dad's basement. My dad
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: would tell you, oh, well, I was never good enough
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: as a musician to really do music, so he and
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: he always had this thing for being a doctor and
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: went on to do that. But Nills and my dad
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: stayed in touch through the years, and so like, whenever
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: Nils would come through town, we would always go and
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: see him in Dallas, and so like my first concert
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: was Bruce Springsteen in the East Street Band, born in
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: the USA Tour nineteen eighty five Reunion Arena, Dallas, Texas,
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: Like holy shit, wow, you know. And so Nils was
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: like my contact, like he you know what I mean,
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: Like he was like, Okay, this is someone who's doing
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: the thing that like I want to do. And so
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: ever since that first song I wrote when I was eight,
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: I would make little cassettes and send them to Nils,
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: you know, and just be like Nils like, check out
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: you know these songs I'm writing. And he was always
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: so sweet, you know. I'd call him and be like
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: what do you think. He's like, oh, it's great, Ben,
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: Just like keep doing it, keep writing, you know what
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: I mean. Yeah, So fast forward back to the nineties.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: Deep LM. Radish is getting more serious. We're playing gigs,
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: doing the whole thing. We did make like a cassette EP.
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: And then CD became a thing that you could do
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: like yourself, you know, like it became possible to duplicate
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: like you know, five hundred or one thousand CDs like
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: that was the thing. It was kind of expensive, but
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: it was attainable. So we saved up money and we
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: pressed our first CD, and so of course I sent
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: it to Nils and I guess it was on his
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: coffee table. He was making an album at the time,
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: and the producer was walking by, you know, through the
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: living room and was like, oh, what's the CD? And
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: he picks it up and the photo of the CD
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: was like three young kids behind bars, Like we thought
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: that would be a cool album cover. Yeah, we're tough,
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: you know, rawdug. So he's like, who are these kids?
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: And Nil said, oh, well, that's my friend's son's band,
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: you know. And this producer put it on and really
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: liked it. And so then we get a phone call
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: at my house.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: Who wasn't the god you know.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: His name is Roger Greenawaltz, an extremely talented producer, probably
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: one of them I've had many mentors, you know. Roger
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: is up there with Nils like in like, well, he
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: calls and says, hey, can I speak to Ben? And
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: so my parents are like, oh, yeah, sure, who is
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: this though, you know, and he's like, well, I'm working
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: with Nils so and they're like okay. So I speak
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: to Roger and he says, hi, Ben, And he had
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: kind of this you know, grandiose voice was really cool
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: for me. But being a small town kid. I was like, whoa,
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: this is crazy. He's like, Hi, I'm Roger Greenawalt and
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: I'm producing Nils Lofgren right now, and I just heard
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: your CD and there's this song that I really love.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: I want to come to Texas. I want to rehearse
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: your band. We're going to record a three song demo
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: and I'm gonna shop it around to major label record companies.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: And I'm probably fourteen right now, and so I'm like, Okay,
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: I'm thinking to myself, I have no idea what the
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: fuck you just said, but sign me up, because like
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: this sounds like the best thing. This is exactly I
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: want to leave school, Like I want to play music.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: This is it, you know. So Roger came to Texas
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: like during spring break or something, and we rehearsed every day,
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: and he would tell the three of us, He's like,
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: I'm taking you guys to art school right now. So
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: it's like the first time we ever worked with anyone
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: with you know, any kind of producer. And so he
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: would do things like one day, he'd walk in one
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: day and be like, Okay, today, John the drummer, he'd
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: be like, all right, we're gonna remove the rack Tom
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: on the floor. Tom, you don't get any symbols. All
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: you get is snare kick and high hat and so
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: like the whole day, that's all you get to work with.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: He would do things like limiting us, you know, and
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: like taking away and just teaching us. And then as
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: far as songwriting, you know, he taught me what the
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: relative minor is, which is a whole concept. You know,
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: if you're in the key of C major, the relative
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: minor is a minor, which is that second chord and
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: heart and soul. So like I already knew what I
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: was here. I could hear it all, but I didn't
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: know how to put it to words and so like
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: things like that. So anyway, we recorded this three three
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: song demo and he starts sending it around and before
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: you know it, like the phone starts ringing off the
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: hook at my parents' house and it's like all these
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: major label record companies and so then you know, they
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: loved the demo. They're like, well, but we hear he's
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: really young, you know, like we got to see if
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: he can really perform. And so then we had to
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: go do the showcase, which is like this is like
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: some classic nineties shit that I'm talking about right now
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: because this is like so many people did this formula,
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: you know, but it actually worked for my band, which
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: is kind of nuts to think about. So we went
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: to New York and we did three shows. It was insane.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: Friday night was at CBGB's and so like my first
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: gig in New York, you know, outside of Texas was
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: at CBGB's, and Saturday night was at Coney Island High,
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: which I don't think is there anymore, and then Sunday
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: was at Don Hills, which I'm not sure if that's
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: there anymore, but they say that On Friday night it
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: was like all the A and rs from the labels,
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: and then they would they left CBS and we're like yo.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: They would call their boss, like the head of A
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: and R say, Yo, this band Radish. You got to
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: come tomorrow night and see them at Coney Island High.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: And so Saturday night it was the A and R's
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: plus the head of an R's. After the Saturday show,
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: the head of an RS called the presidents and we're like, yo,
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: you got to come see this band Radish. On Sunday
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: they're playing at Don Hills. This is what I was
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: told you know like this is all the legend of
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: it all sounds right, and so on Sunday night, I
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: remember our lawyer, Jonathan Aralick. He after the show at
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: don Hills. He was like, I've never seen this before,
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: like and this is like this attorney was at a
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: huge law firm like that represented Madonna and Springsteen, like
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: big big stuff, and he's like, you had every president
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: of every major record label was in that room. Like
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: it was kind of nuts. And so we ended up
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: signing with Mercury Records, and the album it like didn't
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: really do much. It was like, you know, classic big
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: budget major label thing. I remember, like really funny because
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: I I remember I was fifteen, and I remember the
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: publicist from Mercury would come to me all the time
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: be like, Ben, you have to stop dyeing your hair
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: different colors because like we're spending so much money on
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: press shots, like no one's gonna know what you look like.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: And I was like whatever, you know, like stuff like that,
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: like just and we went to the UK and actually
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: had like a hit song in the UK called Little
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: Pink Stars. The like did really well, and we did
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: like Redding Festival. We'd sort of faith no more over
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: there in Europe, and then it was time for our
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: second album. But at this point Mercury was bought by
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: PolyGram and it was like all these corporate mergers, and
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: then it eventually became Island def Jam music group who
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: didn't really give a shit about Radish.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: It's unfortunate. You guys were really cool. I mean, I
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: don't want to say unfortunate because that ends well, but is
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: what it is, like of all the sort of post
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: you know, there was a lot of those posts Nirvana groups.
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: Most didn't I don't feel got the proper signal from Nirvana,
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: you know, like they did a version of Nirvana that
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: was like not that great, right, and whatever whatever you
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: guys took from it was really actually really it felt
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: like the spirit of it continued, you know right on Maneah.
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: Well that's cool to hear. You know, Nirvana really was
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: always my favorite band, but it was like also the Beatles,
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: so there was just definitely like this melodic thing that
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: I was obsessed with.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: What was your family thinking they were?
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: They were so supportive. I mean that is like the thing,
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: you know, it doesn't make sense, but it also kind
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: of makes sense because if you look at the timeline,
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: like back to eight years old. Like by the time
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: I was fifteen, you know, it's the whole ten thousand
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: hours and you're an expert thing, right, Yeah, Well, like
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: I was already like just so deep in my path,
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: so like when it was time to go perform in
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: New York, and also I was just so I had
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: so much confidence, you know, and determination, and my parents
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: were just like, well, this is what he's doing. And
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: they were so supportive.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: And you were kind of out on your own. Was
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: anyone accompanying you on those.
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: Shoe So that's a good question. I mean I remember
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: when it was time to go on tour, you know,
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: well we called Nils and was like, okay, well what
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: do we do, you know, like we need like a
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: crew or something. And so Nils's guitar tech, Michael Mtuzac,
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: we called him twos Two's was our chaperone slash tour manager,
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: slash guitar tech you know, slash driver. So two's another mentor,
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: you know, taught me the code of the road and
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: how the road life is.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: Also, Nils did an interesting thing when the record deal happened.
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: He called my parents and was like, I need Ben
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: to go to AA meetings. I didn't drink. I didn't
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: do drugs, but he was like, as a preparatory situation,
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: like he should go to AA meetings and like hear
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: stories because there's gonna be a lot of temptation out there,
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: and you know what I mean. And that was kind
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: of a cool thing. So I would go at fifteen
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: to the local AA meetings and sit around with like
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: these old people who are smoking cigs and you know,
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: drinking coffee, and I'd just chill with them and listen
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: to stories. And that must have been helpful, you know.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: I never got lost in drugs and alcohol. I always
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: just really stayed clear about the music.
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: Wow, that's amazing man, So thanks Nels. Yeah, that's an
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: incredible support man.
• 29:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah, totally.
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: So what's funny And I didn't mention it, but like
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: in the Radish time, when all the labels wanted us,
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: you know, we did the New York thing with the showcases,
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: then we to go to LA to meet the West
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: Coast labels. And at that time it was Maverick.
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: Records, which was Madonna right.
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: Madonna's label, and Guyo Siri was running that and Freddie DeMann,
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: who was Madonna's manager Interscope. So Jimmy iveen with Interscope.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: Jimmy had a party at his house in Malibu, and
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: so it was some famous fight, like a vander Holyfield
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: fight that only like you know, ten people could pay
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: per view in America, and like Jimmy had it piped
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: into his house straight from Vegas in the theater room.
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: As it was a party for everyone was going to
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: watch this fight. I didn't even not many people watched.
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: It was just a party, right, But it kind of
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: blew my mind. That was a moment at fifteen years old,
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: coming from Greenville, Texas, where my only understanding of pop
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: culture was MTV, the radio and like Rolling Stone magazine. Right,
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: so we get it. We walk into Jimmy's house and
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: it's me and our drummer and my dad and the
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: drummer's dad, like you know, and so we're hanging with Jimmy.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: It's like early afternoon. There's a few people there. Dre's there,
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: and so we're like, well, that's fucking cool. And so
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: we're like hanging with doctor Trey. I think my dad
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: smoked a joint with doctor Dre in the in the
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: limo actually, because he had his Limo just parked out front.
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: But then like later as people started showing up, it
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: was like Axel Rose, Robbie Robertson from the band who
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: my dad was most stoked about. He was like, dude,
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: you know who that is. That's Robbie Robertson from And
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I didn't know who the band was yet,
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like all I knew was like,
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: that's Doctor tre that's Axel Rose. Holy fucking shit. You know,
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: Joe's strummer from the Clash was there. What the nineteen
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: ninety seven swimsuit calendar Sports Illustrated girls were there, And
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: of course Jimmy knew that I was a huge petty fan,
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: and he was like, hey, Tom's gonna come later too,
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: you know, he said he's coming, and so I was like,
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: oh shit, this is incredible. But it just like blew
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: my mind because like from my existence in Greenville, texts
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: is like Doctor Dre and Axel Rose are in such
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: different lanes. They don't even know each other. In my mind,
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: I'm like, that's just different worlds, but all being in
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: the same room. That's when I realized, I'm like, oh wow, okay,
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: so actually they are the same like there, this is
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: like showbiz, like they're entertainers, they're artists, and like of
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: course they know each other because like who else can
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: relate with this life, you know.
• 32:44
  Speaker 4: What I mean.
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: So like it kind of was real eye opening for
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: me because as a consumer, you just see everything as branded, right,
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: and that's what I guess people want, but it's it's
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: we're all.
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: Exactly separate. This this doctor drad gets fed to that
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: audience and be audience exactly exactly.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: But it is funny because Jimmy came up to me,
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: He's like, all right, Ben, Tom's on his way, and
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh fuck, I'm so nervous, you know,
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: to meet Tom Petty. And so like I walked out
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: front and I sat on like the stup like like
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: the steps right outside of the front door, just waiting
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: like I don't know why, like I'm at this like
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: party at some dude's house, Like I don't need to
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: go out there, but like in my mind I'm fifteen,
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm just gonna go sit and pretend like
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: I'm not doing anything. Sure enough, a rolls Royce pulls up,
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: Rick Rubin gets out of the driver's seat and Tom
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: gets out of the passenger seat and they walk and there,
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: walking towards me, right to the front door, and I
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: remember just sitting there and like them both being like hey,
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: and just walked by me and entered the house. And
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: so I'm just like looking around and I'm like, Okay,
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: I guess I'll go back inside the party now, like,
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: you know, like what was I doing?
• 34:07
  Speaker 5: Man?
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: And so I go back in the party and uh,
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: and Rick walks and he goes and sits on a couch,
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: you know, and he's like talking to people, and Tom's there,
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: and at some point Tom walked by me again and
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: he was like, hey, man, do you have any weed
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: on you? And that was like the one moment in
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: my life where I'm like, God, damn, why don't I
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: have any weed on me right now? But I love
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: that like of all the people he's asking, like the
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: fifteen year old, he looks year olds, probably got.
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: Some weed on him.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: And so I'm like, no, man, sorry, He's like all right,
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: it's all good. Then later he we circle back, you know,
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: and see each other, and he's like, so, Jimmy's telling
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: me that, you know, you're a really good artist, you know,
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, well, I don't know about that. But
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: he's like, well, you know, never sell your publishing. I'm
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: like okay, He's like, I sold my publishing. They gave
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: me ten thousand dollars. I thought I was rich. I've
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: never made a dime off American girl. It's like damn,
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: Like that's raw, you know, and we just start talking.
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: So you know, it was just like sweet of him,
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: like you know, just like going straight to some business
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: like bullet points for like this young kid, you know,
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: like he was like trying to teach me some shit.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: And then later the party's sort of dying down. And
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: this is another thing like at that time in my life,
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: like I was just so hungry, you know, and I
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: would take my guitar with me everywhere. I would play
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: for anyone at the drop of a hat. I want
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: to get back into that mindset, by the way, Like
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: I've been thinking about that a lot, Like there's something
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: so beautiful about like when you're a teenager and like
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: you're just naive and all you care about is the
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: one thing you love, you know, which in my case
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: was music. So of course, like why wouldn't I just
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: go everywhere with a guitar and like, why wouldn't I
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: just play for anyone, anywhere, at anytime. You know, I
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: love that there's something so beautiful that kind of goes away,
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: or it did for me, you know.
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: I think Neil still has that. And that's why bother
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: because when you're around Neil, you realize, yeah, there's something
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: going on in them like that, it's just there and
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: you don't want to take them out of you. I
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: got that, yes.
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: So they were like, hey, kid, play us a song.
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: And so I was like all right. And so I'm
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: sitting in this chair and there's a couch to my
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: left and to my right and this big like crystal
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: coffee table that's probably like you know, six feet long,
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: and then a chair on the other end. And so
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: it's like me, Tom Petty's to my right on the
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: couch with other people kind of standing around Joe Strummers
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: where you're sitting like on the other side of the
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: coffee table, and just other people kind of around right,
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: and they're like, all right, play us a song, kid.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: I'm like, all right, pop open my guitar case, pull
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: out my acoustic I start playing a song. I finish it,
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: and they're all like whoo you know, clapping and like
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: screaming like that's awesome, blah blah. And so I hand
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: my guitar to Tom and I said, Tom, play us
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: a song. It's like all right. And he said the
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: coolest thing to my fifteen year old small town brain.
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: He said, this is a Bech song. And I was like,
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: oh my god, Tom Petty listens to Beck like I'm thinking,
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: you know what I mean, like this is so fucking cool,
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: and so again like I just shattering, you know, genres
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: and like realities of marketing and all the shit that
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: were fed right and the lanes and the categorical nonsense. Yes,
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: like yeah, like, oh, he's so cool. Tom's cool. He
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: freaking knows about Beck like that was you know. And
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: so not only does he play a Beck song, he
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: plays a Beck song I had never heard before, asshole Wow,
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: which was on One Foot in the Grave and which
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: I didn't which of course I went and found like
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: the next day, you know, at Amoba Records or whatever.
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: But he plays this song that I never heard it,
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: which is such a really unique chord progression. Everyone out
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: there should listen to this song. Then Tom says Joe
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: and hands my guitar to Joe's drummer, and so he's like, ah,
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: fuck off everyone, and they're all like, no, Joe, play
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: play London Calling. Play London Calling. And I'm like, what's
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: London Calling because I didn't know the class yet. Wow,
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: you know, And so they play London Call. It's like,
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: oh fucking twas fuck.
• 38:29
  Speaker 6: And then he starts going to dank gank gank gank
• 38:32
  Speaker 6: good dank gank gank gang good dank gang, London Calling girl,
• 38:37
  Speaker 6: and everyone's singing London Calling, and it was just such
• 38:42
  Speaker 6: a vibe and then he like you know, does like
• 38:44
  Speaker 6: a verse in of chorus and then he stands up,
• 38:47
  Speaker 6: hey kid, catch and he throws my guitar across the
• 38:52
  Speaker 6: you know, million dollar coffee table, and I stand up
• 38:55
  Speaker 6: and I catch it boom and I sit back down
• 38:59
  Speaker 6: and then I played another song. So that was like
• 39:01
  Speaker 6: my first time in Los Angeles.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: I don't know if show business gets any better than that.
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: That's kind of the epitome, right.
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: And Jimmy wanted you guys on Interscope.
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was Interscope. He wanted us really bad, you know,
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: and he's the one we should have signed with. Like
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: if you look back and really analyze everything. He's the
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: one that probably would have been the right move. But
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: you know there everything is right like meaning like yeah,
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: like no regrets, like I'm so thankful that like history
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: played out the way it did, and then I was
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: able to have my solo career, Like I'm just happy
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: with the way things are, and even if I was unhappy,
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: that's still how it is, which we can get to
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: in a little bit of like how things go down
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: in life.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: We'll be back with more from ben Queler. After the
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: break between Radish and Shasha. Your first solo period, Yeah,
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: what what was happening in terms of your your songwriting
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: and your development.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: Well, I started to write a lot more autobiographical songs
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: a lot. I started to really develop sort of I
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: guess what the Ben Kueller sound is, which is just
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: very sort of on the nose, straight up direct it
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: is what it is. And also when you write for
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: a band sometimes there's like a feeling like, well, it's
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: like everybody in the band has to kind of vibe
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: with the song you write because you're representing the band
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: through these songs, right, And so a big moment that
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: happened in that period was I met my wife Liz.
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: So Radish needed a bass player and a producer. We
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: were working with Bryce Gogin, amazing producer. Did like all
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: the pavement stuff, a bunch of Lemonheads records.
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: That I love.
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: Bryce heard about a bass player in Boston, Josh La Tansi.
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: So me and John David Kent, the drummer from Radish,
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: we fly up to Boston. We auditioned Josh. He's great.
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: We're there for a few days. One of the nights
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: he had a gig. He was playing with a band,
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: so we went to the start to watch him on
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: stage and you know, check out his gig. And at
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: that gig, he introduced me to all of his friends
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: and Liz was one of the friends.
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: So I meet Liz and we just hit it off
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: like it was like we knew each other from another life,
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: like another you know, kind of just an energy thing.
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: It's nineteen ninety eight, and she said, oh, you're from Texas. Cool.
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: I'm actually coming through Texas. I'm going on a road
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: trip with my best friend Anna and we're coming through Texas.
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: I said, oh, well, you got to stay at my
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: place and she's like, oh perfect. Meanwhile, you know my
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: place is my bedroom at my mom and dad's house,
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: because you know, I'm seventeen at this point, Liz was
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: twenty two, and I don't think I mentioned that I
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: was seventeen. Looking back, She's like, I totally assumed you
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: were at least eighteen, because you're like on a business
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: trip in Boston, like with your band, like it was
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like didn't realize you were
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: like a high school dropout, and so they eventually got
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: to textas and the rest is history. Really, I mean,
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: I think maybe a month later, I told my parents, Hey,
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: I'm you know, most of my friends are going to college.
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to go to college. I want to
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: get closer to New York, keep pursuing music. So I'm
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: going to move to Connecticut and live with Liz. Because
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: she left Boston had to go back to Connecticut where
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: she grew up, and so I moved to Connecticut and
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: lived there with her in her childhood home, and that's
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: where I started writing this new body of work. So
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: I would go into New York City because Radish still
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: had this contract with Mercury, but really now it was
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: Island def Jam Music Group, and I would talk to them.
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: You know, like, hey, you know, we just made this
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: great album with Bryce Gagan at Muscle Shoals, Alabama. And
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: it was funny because like I'm trying to tell them,
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: like how good this album is. Meanwhile, it's like it
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: was like a double album, eighteen songs like really deck
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: and like just me spreading my wings, you know, and
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: they're just like, it's never going to come out. Basically
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: it never did, and in fact, actually we're going to
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: release it. We're working. That's a project we're working on,
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: like the unreleased Ratish album, which and what's really cool
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: about that record is that there's like four songs on
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: it that I ended up re recording for Shawsha. And
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: at that time, pro Tools came out with this product
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: like a do it yourself It was called like the
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: Inbox and it was like a do it yourself record
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: at home situation because I had like a Taskam cassette recorder,
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: but this inbox thing was new, and so I started
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: recording songs in my apartment in Brooklyn. We left Connecticut
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: moved to New York. So I made a CD called
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: Freak Out. It's Ben Queller and we pressed up a
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: thousand because I looked around the room. I'm like, I
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: don't have a band, it's just me, so that I'll
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: be Ben Queller. I'm solo. So I started playing gigs,
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: just like you know how I started as a kid,
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: like just calling around, and I started getting gigs in
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: the Lower East Side. And then there's another band starting
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: called the Strokes, and we become friends and playing gigs,
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: and the Moldy Peaches are starting. So now it's like
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: early two thousands right in New York, which was a vibe.
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: And one day I get a phone call from Evan
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: Dando of the Lemonheads, which was a complete hero of mine,
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: like up there with Kurt Cobain and the whole thing.
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: So cool. So I get this message, Ben, this is
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: Evan Dando calling. I can't stop playing this freak out record.
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: Give me a call back bye. And I was like,
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: oh my god, holy shit. So I call Evan back.
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: I'm like hey, it's Ben Cohler. He's like, hey, dude,
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: you want to go on tour? And I was like,
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: yes I do. He's like, great, pick me up at
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: the airport tomorrow at twelve and we'll head up to
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: Boston for a show. And I'm like okay, I'd like,
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: I don't know, like it's like he also just needed
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: someone to pick him up at the airport. And so
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: I throw my guitar in the trunk of my Volvo
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: and I drive to the airport pick up Evan. And
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: for like four or five months, all I did was
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: open for him. And so like all of my first fans,
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: as Ben Koehler, were Lemonheads fans. Yeah, and also like
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: this is the other thing, is like Evan calling me
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: was such a moment because up until that point, it
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: was just like business people that were kissing my ass
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: and like, you know, we're gonna make you a stock kid,
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: like you know, that was just so fickle and flighty
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: and you know, not real at the time. But Evan
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: calling me was like the first person that I an
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: artist that I actually respected and looked up to and
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: wanted to be appeer with, you know, And so that
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: was like probably the most meaningful bullet point, you know,
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: in this timeline. And so then from there it was
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: like he introduced me to Juliana Hatfield, I'd start opening
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: for her, and you know, then Jeff Tweety got a
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: copy of Freak Out, and so it just like started
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: becoming a thing. So meanwhile, I would take these flyers
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: to the Island f GM Music Group office of like,
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: hey guys, I'm opening for Wilco and or the Lemonheads.
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: They would be like how are you doing? Like how
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: are you getting these gigs? You're not ready, You're not
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: ready to you should be rioting and demoing.
• 46:32
  Speaker 5: You know.
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: Like I was in there and I'm like, well, I'm already. Meanwhile,
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: like you know, I did make this bootleg CD without
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: telling anybody, you know what. I was just like trying
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: to hustle it.
• 46:41
  Speaker 5: Man.
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: So one day I was at a gig opening for
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: Evan and Ben Lee was also on the bill where
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: we became friends, and this guy came up to me
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: after the gig and said, hey, my name is Michael McDonald,
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: not from the Doobie Brothers stuff, Like yeah, yeah, my
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: name is Michael McDonald and I just started a record
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: company with Dave Matthews. It's called Ato Records, and we
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: really want to sign you. We want you to be
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: our first worldwide signing. And I was like, Okay, let's
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: do it. And so the day I got Radish basically
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: departed from Mercury. Ben Kuehler signed on to ATO Records
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: and those early days was that's two thousand and one
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: early days at Oh yeah, it was the first worldwide
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: they had licensed to the David Gray album, which did
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: amazing in the US. And uh so then we went
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: in and recorded Shasha.
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: What was the process of making Shasha with ATO as
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: sort of your label, was it?
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: That was cool? Yeah? We recorded in New York at
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: this really famous studio called Seer Sound, which used to
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: be the Hit Factory back in the sixties. John Lennon
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: did a lot of solo work there, so we showed
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: up day one. We worked with a great producer, British producer.
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: It's funny actually my first three albums were all produced
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: by British. British Yeah, kind of a thing, you know.
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: That's that's my that's my sixties British invasion. Yeah. So yeah,
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: we recorded. I mean at that point it was Josh
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: who was in Radish, you know, who introduced me to
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: my wife, and then John David, the Radish drummer, was
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: the drummer, so it was kind of Radish was the band.
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: For different at least from the stuff that got released.
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: I mean, you're singing solid changed quite a bit bit
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: sure for sure.
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because I mean, like the Radish stuff that was
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: released is this album Restraining Bolt, which was like our
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: sort of major label debut, And yeah, I definitely like
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: had that sort of classic American singer thing from the
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: nineties that you're kind of sounding British, you know, you
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: know I want to Fly Take Me to the Sky.
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: You know, that was like, oh so common in the
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: post grunge era. I kind of outgrew that by the
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: time I went in and made Shasha.
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: I Thank god the way you developed it seemed like
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: it was a really original style.
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know, and I embraced the piano, you know,
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: because like in the Radish there was no piano. I
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: just played guitar and sang, but you know, like pianos
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: were it all started for me as an artist really,
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: and so I had these songs that I loved on
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: the piano, in other words, falling. There were just some
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: real good piano songs, and I just knew, if I'm
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: going to be a solo artist, piano is equal to
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: guitar in my book. You know, It's a fifty to
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: fifty thing kind of in my world. And also it
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: being a debut album, and knowing knowing who the hell
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: Bend Coelor was, Like, I really intentionally made the track
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: listings just sort of unique and eclectic, you know, a
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: rock song into a folk song into a seventies piano
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: ballad and the psychedelic like trippy thing. You know, I
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: love so many types of music, and I didn't want
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: to just be one thing. I wanted to just kind
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: of show people a little bit of everything, like all
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: my flavors. Here's all my flavors, and then stay along
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: for the ride, and I'll make a bunch of albums hopefully.
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: That's kind of what in my mind that was like
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: the game plan.
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, you might get a lot of flavors
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: on it, maybe like a maybe Elliott Smith would be
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: another person who you might get a rock song and
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: take a more of a folk into a piano ballad
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: into but in no way sounds like an Elliott Smith's
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: record either. You know, Beck was.
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: An artist who really like would do that sort of
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: like back and forth a bunch of different stuff. And
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: I always loved his early work, like all of his
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: work's great, but you know, at that time, definitely was
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: inspired by a lot of his early stuff. I just
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: not even inspired by, but just like I really like
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: fucked with it, and like like I related to what
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: he was doing, you know, like I would listen to
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: back and be like, oh, I feel like I know
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: that guy. Like we you know, it was relatable to
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: me and probably like millions of other people who listened.
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: But you know, that was just in my little world.
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: But then also artists like you know, Neil Young or
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: Tom Petty like you know, and particularly Neil I would say,
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: you know, going back and forth from piano to guitar.
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: But then Nil's Lofgren, I mean, and if you listen
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: to his first solo album, which is just called Nils
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: Lofgrens Great, underrated, amazing album, you know he kind of
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: switches between guitar and piano. So naturally that's kind of
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: I just as a kid, was like, that's kind of
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: what you do in rock and roll. You play a
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: little piano here, you play little guitar, then you sing
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: on both those songs. You know, Yeah, that's what ties
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: it in as the voice.
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: Did you ever get feedback from from Dave as like
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: an artist like today?
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: Dave actually would come to the studio when we were
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: recording Shasha. We had a lot of hangs with Dave. Yeah,
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: it was great. He was so fun to be around.
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: And yeah, would he give input or was he like
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: hands off and just kind of letting you see?
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: He was pretty hands off creatively. I remember he would
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: talk about like video ideas, which is really fun, Like
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: this song in other words, one of the piano songs.
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: He was like, we need to go because it mentions
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: butterflies in the song, and he was he was like,
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: we gotta go. There's this place in Mexico where the
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: butterflies like come alive at a certain time. Like I'm
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: just picturing the video now, like let's go, and I'm
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: thinking my mind. I'm like, well, dude, you're Dave Matthew's
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: like you can go anywhere to shoot any kind of video.
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: But I'm like kind of like this guy that's never
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: put out a solo record, Like, you know, I don't
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: know if that's on the budget.
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, at but is Dave Matthew subsidizing this?
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah you really want to spend it on a video?
• 52:26
  Speaker 5: You know?
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: What a great guy. I mean, we had some great
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: times together. It was really fun. Early days Ato.
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: I was not so much pain attention to the mechanics
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: of how things worked at that time. But I remember
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: the Shasha record and me and all my friends really
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: loved that record. We were in bands at the time,
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: you know, and just trying to figure things out. And
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: then I just remember at some point, and you can
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong, but I have a memory
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: of like there being commercials on TV for like On
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: My Way, like your next album, Like yeah, it was like, whoa,
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: this guy's getting big.
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: That sounds familiar. Actually, there was something in so ATO
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: Records went through RCA Records that's just for just au
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: and stuff, and I think there was something in Ato's
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: agreement with RCA that like if an album Ato puts
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: out does certain numbers, you know, one hundred thousand units
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: or more whatever, then the next album upstreams to RCA,
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: Like RCA was like, okay, well that's good enough for us,
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: so you know, we want to be involved. And so
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: I think and and Shasha hit that target whatever it was,
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: and so then for On My Way, r c A
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: definitely got involved. And I do remember there were some
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: commercials at that time that I don't remember what they were. God,
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: I'd love to find them be fun to watch.
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Same. I don't exactly remember what they were, but
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: I just remember thinking that it was that's wild, like, Okay,
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: there's a I'm finding out, there's a new ben coming
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: from my TV. That's cool, bizarre, like was unexpected, you know,
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: And that's a really that's an amazing album.
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you. I love that album because it's very raw.
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: And that's Ethan John's behind the wheel on that drive,
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: the recording console. And yeah, we didn't even use headphones.
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: We just set up standing like right in front of
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: the drum kit, two guitars and a bass player and
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: in a little circle and just played everything live. So
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: we played really quietly and without headphones. You got to
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: play quietly to really hear each other. This really interesting
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: way to record. My guitar player at the time was
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: Mike Stroud, who one of the best guitar players I've
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: ever known, and we toured together. He eventually went on
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: to form Ratatat, which is such a cool group. Yeah, yeah,
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: that's Mike Stroud. So if you go back and listen
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: to on My Way album the guitar solo, so Mike's
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: and the right speaker, I'm in the left speaker, so
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: the guitar solos on the Rules and Disaster, like those
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: songs are basically Rattat guitar player. You know, half of
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: rat Attat is that record. So it's pretty cool.
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: So, you know, On My Way kind of kicks up
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: to the level of URCA feeling like we can we
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: can deal with this kid. You know, also like kind
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: of broke through commercially to a degree. Yeah, and then
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: you do your self titled record.
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So you know, I'm always an interesting documentation because
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: it's like really raw, like no overdubs, no headphones. It
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: was just a band playing songs, you know, and it's
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: really got a cool vibe to it, which is kind
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: of maybe in hindsight, unfortunate because like it had the
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: biggest push from the labe from RCA, you know, but
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: we delivered like this album that was like super low
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: fi and you know, very vibey, but like definitely no
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: hits on it kind of a thing, you know. But
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: my third album, I really wanted to do something really
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: expansive and just very layered, and I heard a bunch
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: of instrumentation and I met with Gil Norton, great producer
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: in London, and we were talking about the album. We're
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: talking about tracking it and okay, like who's going to
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: play the instruments? And I'm like, well, I got my
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: bass player, Josh and you know John David, you know,
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: played on the first two albums, and we can do
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: Mike Stroud, you know, and guitar or something. And then
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: Gil was like, who's playing on these demos because we
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: were listening to some of the demos I made. I said, oh, well,
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: I played all the instruments on the demos. It's like,
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: oh may. He's like, well, have you ever thought about
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: recording the album just you? I was like, well, no,
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: not really, but it sounds kind of interesting. He's like, oh, man,
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: I think that would be really fun. He's like, I've
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: only ever been in the studio with bands, so it'd
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: be really kind of fun to just work with one
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: artist and just like this does it all? Like you know,
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: we could just like layer everything up, and so that's
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: what we ended up doing. So he came to New
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: York and we recorded this little studio called the Magic Shop,
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: and it was like a musical playground. They had two pianos.
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: They had two grand pianos, a black one and a
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: white one. One was in tune. One was out and
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: we had him like facing each other like Yin and yang.
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: It looked pretty cool, and so we purposely kept one
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: out of tune. Then you got the organ, and then
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: there's a glock and spiel, and then at the other
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: end is the drum set and then here's a wall
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: of amps. We set it up all in a circle.
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: Because there's only going to be one source being played
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: at any given moments, you don't have to worry about
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: bleed or anything like that. So it was just like,
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: what do you want to record? Whatever you're inspired to record,
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: you just press record and pick up that instrument. So
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: it was really cool. So like every track, it's very
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: piano heavy. Every song pretty much it's like we would
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: do a take of the intune piano, take of the
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: autitune piano, then we'd add like glock and spiel. It
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: definitely has like this sort of like there's like a
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: Springsteen feeler, like more of like a Jeff Lynn style,
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: just layered, you know, one hundred acoustic guitars, but it
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: all kind of comes together into one sound in a
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: really unique way. Also, at that time, Liz was pregnant
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: with our first child and so we're living in New
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: York and that was an interesting dynamic because we were
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: the first of our peer group to actually have a baby.
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: That was kind of like an interesting you know, because
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: like up until that time, you know, it was like
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: touring and rock and roll and going staying out late.
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: You know, you don't have to answer to anyone, you know,
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: and so like now it's like, oh, we're pregnant, we're
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: having a baby, which we're so excited about, and now
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: I'm in the studio by myself. So it was like
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: kind of like one of the most liberating recording experiences
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: but also one of the most lonely. But it also,
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: I feel like, has some of my best songs. It's
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: got this song called thirteen, which is sort of one
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: of my best love songs, I feel.
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: So that was my self titled album, and then after that,
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: as a songwriter, you know, whenever I would write a song,
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: I would put it in my sketch books. I would
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: always make lists of songs like buckets. I call them,
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: like different buckets of songs. They're each buckets an album
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: a potential album, I guess. And growing up in Texas,
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: you know, we talked about how you know, it was
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: all Beatles, British Invasion and then Nirvana. But then there's
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: the third pillar of my musical lineage, which is the
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: music that would be playing around me, like when I'd
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: go to Walmart or like sitting at Applebee's having lunch,
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: and that would have been the class of eighty nine
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: country music, Garth Brooks, Alan Jackson, Travis Tritt, all that stuff.
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: So like, there's like definitely a lot of country. So
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: I would write country songs, even going all the way
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: back to Radish. I would just sometimes you can't help
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: what you're right, you know, it just pops out and
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, that's a cool country song. So I'd
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: put each one of those in this country album bucket.
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: So after the self titled album, I'm like, Okay, this
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: will be my fourth album. I have like ten songs
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: here that are really good country songs. So that's going
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: to be the next one. And so I called it
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: Changing Horses. I decided, oh, well, I made the first
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: three album New York, maybe I should go back to
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: Texas for this one. And at that time, the band Spoon,
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: their drummer Jimmy, you know, he had just built a
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: great studio in Austin called Public Hi Fi, and Jim
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: was like, dude, come down here to Austin, make the
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: record of my new studio. You'll love it. And so
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: we rented a house in Austin for a few weeks
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: and we recorded Changing Horses, which is one of my
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: personal favorites that I've made. It's so unique, and you know,
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: I call it a country album. It very much is.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: It's got pedal steel and doughbro all over it, played
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: by this amazing musician, Ben Kidderman. But it's my flavor
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: of country. You know. It's a Ben Coehler album, like
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: for sure. So we made that we go back to
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: New York. It turns out that the Changing Horses was
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: the last album for Ato Records. In the contract, we're
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: back in Brooklyn and Liz is like, man, life was
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: really nice in Austin. And Dorian, our son was born
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: before this. So actually when we came down to record
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: Changing Horses, Dorian was with us. He was like one,
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: you know, So when we're back in Brooklyn, she was like,
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: life was really easy in Austin. You know, having a
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: baby there was super easy and cool. And so we
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: decided to move to Austin in two thousand and eight
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: or nine. So we get to Austin. I always, in
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: the back of my mind knew that I wanted to
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: have a record company because I've just always been a
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: record nerd and I've just been obsessed with recording other
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: people and loving bands and records and the whole thing.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: And so instead of renewing with ATO, I told him,
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: I'm like, hey, I love you guys so much, but
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: down in Austin just had a baby. I'm like, just
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: changing up everything. I'm going to start my own record label.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: So the Noise Company was born, and that was in
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: twenty ten, and we put out an album for me
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: called Go Fly a Kite, which did it for an
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: independent release. For our first release, did really well, ended
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: up getting nominated for a Grammy for Best Album Art.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: I will say a non music Grammy, but hey, it's
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: as my publicist said, dude, we can still say Grammy
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: nominated artist. But really proud of that release because artwork
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: is always actually really important to me, the aesthetics and
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: I just love the tactile, you know, experience of an
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: album and a record and so yeah, so we did that.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: We discovered this great band wild Child signed them. So
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: that's it. So now that this is our like real
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: community at this point, you know, the locals.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: Can Can you talk a bit about Dorian and your
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: relationship with him.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, Dorian, it was a lot like me,
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: just very musical, super creative, and we joke that like
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: in second grade, he was given you know, at the
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: end of the school year, every kid gets award for
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: some different thing, and he got the friend to all
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: Ward and he really was you know, he wasn't concerned
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: with mundane, just sort of everyday stuff that most people learn.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: Like he like, you know, we'd be having dinner and
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: he'd be like, Mom, this is amazing chicken, and she'd
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: be like that's beef, and like, you know, and that
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: was like when he was like, you know, a teenager,
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: you know, like he just never learned the difference between
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: Like he didn't care if if you were like conservative liberal,
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: like what, like, none of that shit mattered to him.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: He was just like he just saw you for you
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: and if he jibed with it, all good, if not
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: all good, like you know what I mean. He just
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: like did his thing and he was like a true connector.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: I mean it's amazing. Like the funeral, so many people
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: showed up, Hundreds of people showed up, Like we met
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: so many kids that would just come up to us
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: and say, you know, Dorian reached out to me and
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: like brought introduced me to these people, like he would
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: put people together and just like people have come up
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: to me since, like you know, we're friends because of Dorian,
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: like we never would have known each other or and
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: in all different scenes from like the skaters to the
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: band nerds like cool uncool again, like none of the
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: just people. You know, that's all it was.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: For him, seated.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: Yes, we started, you know, he started making music like
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: in his bedroom here and dripping springs. Like when we
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: moved here full time, he really started playing guitar a
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: lot more, and I would hear him in his bedroom
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: coming up with original stuff, and I'd go in and
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: we'd talk and be like, dude, that's cool. Like then
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: he started learning fl fl Studio, which is like the competitor,
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: you know, it's one of these like recording softwares, but
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: it's like a real hip hop like a lot of
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: the hip hop producers use FL And he loved hip hop,
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: and so he started making beats. I mean, he would
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: like the incredible beats would be coming out of his bedroom.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: I'd be like, dude, like this stuff is so good.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: And then the last piece for him as an artist
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: was like his voice, Like he's started finding his voice
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: and it was such a like soultry sort of his
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: voice tone is a lot of people are like, oh god,
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: he sounds just like you, but really, if you listen,
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: it's actually a deeper register than me. It's a lower voice,
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: and it's like very raspy and just sultry is like
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: the word I always think when I think of his singing.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 2: And he was like, Dad, like I want to put
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: out some of these songs. And so we started like
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: he would come over here to the barn and I
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: would sort of help him mix stuff. And he decided
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: he wanted to release his music under his middle name,
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: zev Zev, which means wolf, and so we started dropping
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: songs like as Zev you know, on Spotify, and it
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: was just so cool, you know, and he was sixteen
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: and it was really interesting, Like there was this period
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 2: of time where he just would we would have these conversations, uh,
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: you know, at dinner. We'd always have dinner together as
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 2: a family, Me, Liz, Judah and Dorian. And for a
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: minute there, like there's this like two week period where
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: he was constantly like god, guys like mom, Dad, Like
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: I just feel so weird, like I can't fit it
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 2: all in, Like I need, like Dad, we need to
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: be putting out a song like every Friday, Like let's
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: I want to put out his song constantly. And then
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: of course I'm like trying to explain well, like you know,
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: Spotify really prefers if it's like a four week ramp
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 2: up period and then then you got to pitch it
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: to editorial like all the bullshit that is driven into
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: our brains, you know, as professionals, and you know, he
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: but he's just like, no, dog, like I want to
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: I need to be dropping a song a day, yeah,
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: you know in his mind. And he but just this
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 2: interesting vibe where he was just like but yes, a dad,
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: like I need to put out music. He's like I
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: need to go hang with my friends. But like then
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: I feel bad, like I want to hang out with
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: you guys, you know, like, and I just can't fit it.
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: Like there was this weird thing that was happening, and
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: then one day Liz comes home, and she's like, God,
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: everyone who drives a black pickup truck is an asshole.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: We're kind of like, really, okay, ha ha, like what
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: like she like, so she kept seeing these black trucks
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: that were like, I don't know, like running off the
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: road or like. She kept having these weird things, these
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 2: mother instinct vibe things.
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: So one night we're sitting around the dinner table and
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: Dorian's it's like a Monday or Tuesday. It's school night,
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: and he says, Mom, Dad, I'm gonna go over to
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: Dylan's house after dinner and skate. And they're like, oh, okay. Well,
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: and Liz kind of gave it to him a little bit.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: She kind of went into the thing of, well, Dorry,
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: you know you have that test this week at school.
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 2: You probably haven't studied, Like you need to study for that.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: It's a school night, like you really need to start
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 2: thinking about your future, like you really need to start
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: getting your act together and like get serious about school,
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: you know, and just kind of giving him that talk,
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: and he was so sweet. He was like, yeah, I
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: know you're right, but I'm still gonna go to Dylan's
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: and skate. You know, we kind of like chuckled, and
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 2: we're like okay, you know, and so then he's like,
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 2: all right, love you guys. So we have dinner. He leaves.
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: Then Judah, me and Liz were watching some lame show
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: on Netflix. I don't remember what it is because we'd
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: never watched it since this night, and he always was
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: home by nine, and so it's like nine thirty, right,
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: and Liz said, hey, call Dorian, make sure he's heading home,
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 2: you know, by nine thirty. I didn't really want after
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: the whole conversation we had at the dinner table, I
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: didn't want to be like, dude, good look, you know.
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: So I looked on Find my app or whatever to
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: see his iPhone see where it was, and I saw
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: the blue dot was heading home on McGregor Lane in
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 2: Dripping Springs, and so I'm like, I told Liz, I'm like, oh,
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 2: he's on his way home. I see him. He's good
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: and she's like all right, cool. As we keep watching
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: the show, and like twenty minutes later, he's not home,
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: and he would have been like ten or fifteen minutes
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 2: away from home. So that was a little weird. So
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: I pull up Find My and the dots in the
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 2: same spot that it was when I looked twenty minutes ago,
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: and so I stood up and I'm like, hey, something's
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 2: not right. I'm gonna go check on Dorian, like maybe
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: flat tire or something or you know what I mean.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: I'm just like anything. And there's like not really good
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: cell phone service over there. That's you know, we're in
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 2: the boonies. So like I know that road, and and
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: so I hop in the car and I just like
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 2: race down because you know, it's like every parent's worst
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 2: nightmare is that thought. You always think.
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: This is a thought.
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: It's always a thought. Be the worst of the worst
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 2: is what you think, and it never happens luckily, and
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 2: so you know, but I'm having a feeling, so like
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 2: I'm fucking speeding, racing down, and it was kind of
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 2: first weird thing was there were no deer on the side.
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: Usually at night out here there's you'll see deer on
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: the side of the road or see it's kind of
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 2: you know, but there was like the seas were parted.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 2: It was a kind of the only thing I can
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: think of is like there were no animals. There was
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: one car that kind of drove towards me, that passed
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: me on the road at one point headlights and then
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 2: I'm just like hammering down and I make this turn
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: and I'm going on straightaway and I see all the lights, blue, red, flashing, spinning,
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 2: and I'm like, oh, fuck, okay, what something's up. I
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: race up fire trucks, cop cars. There's a little red
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 2: car on the side of the road with a young
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 2: lady standing there, shell shocked, just kind of standing by
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 2: her car. I pull right up to there's cones. I
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: jump out of the car. I start running towards the
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 2: police and everybody. I'm like, where is he? Where is he?
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 2: He's my son? Where is he? I look to my left,
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 2: I see the car. The door has been cut off.
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 2: He's not in the car. So I'm like, oh, and
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: so then a big officer, whoa, whoa, whoa, sir, sir, sir,
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 2: you're not allowed to be here. This is a you know,
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: active investigation, the whole thing. I'm like, where is he?
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: He's my son, I'm his father, Like what you know?
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: Where is he? And he was like, sir, you don't
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 2: want to go over there, And I'm like, what do
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: you mean, Like, hey, I do want to go over there,
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 2: Like I'm his dad, you know, like you don't know me, Like,
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 2: I appreciate you trying to do your job, but like
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 2: if my like is he dead, you know? And he said,
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 2: you don't want to go over there. That's how he
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: answered me. And so I knew. So I call Liz.
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: You know, I'm just like, honey, you gotta get down here.
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: And it's really bad. And she said, what it is
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 2: the worst scream I've ever heard through the phone. Her
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 2: and Juda get in the car the other Luckily we
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 2: had two cars, and her and Juda race down and yeah,
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 2: and Dorian was dead. Car crash, the red car that
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 2: was there. This young lady, she said she was driving
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: and Dorian was in front of her, and she saw
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 2: a big black truck driving toward them, and the black
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 2: truck went into Dorian into their lane. Dorian tried to
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 2: correct to the right. A month prior, we had that
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 2: huge freeze. This is twenty twenty three, there was some
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 2: crazy blizzard freeze in Texas that kind of made the news,
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 2: you know. So there were all these broken branches. The
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 2: weight of the ice would break branches and so the
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: side of the road was littered with these branches. Okay,
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 2: broken branches Dorian swerved to the right, and a branch
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 2: happened to be exactly at his head height, pierced through
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 2: the windshield and hit him in the head and that
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: was it. Instant, didn't feel a thing, didn't even probably
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 2: know what the hell happened. And so the girl in
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 2: the red car basically saw him swerve, but also thought
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 2: that maybe he just turned into a dry and then
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 2: when she went by him, she saw no, there's like
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 2: a car in the woods, and so she freaked out,
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 2: called nine one one, Thank god she was there. She
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 2: you know, called nine one one. They said the black
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 2: truck might not even know what happened, like it could
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 2: have been just like kind of didn't see what was going, like, oh,
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 2: kind of swerved and then you know, you don't think
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 2: that like just a little action is going to like
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 2: kill someone. So we don't know who was driving the
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 2: black truck. And like, also it's probably good we don't know,
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 2: like I don't, you know, like that's just it is
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 2: what it is, and hopefully they don't have any clue.
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 2: That'd be a lot better to live with just not knowing.
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 2: So yeah, so that was when my life really changed.
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 2: Driving home, the three of us instead of the four
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 2: of us, you know, wof And finally one of the
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 2: guys let me go see him. It's like, I have
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 2: to see him. And they apparently when they got to
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 2: the scene, they tried to resuscitate him. He was so
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 2: gone instantly, but they had him in the middle of
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 2: the road covered in a blanket, and I lifted the blanket,
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 2: I saw him and kissed him, and then the judge came,
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 2: the local Hayes County judge to pronounce him dead. It's
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 2: like all the craziest stuff, you know that I find
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 2: myself saying, like this stuff, it's unbelievable. I mean, everyone's
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 2: devastated at this scene. You know, I just lost my
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 2: sixteen year old son. And the judge said, if you
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 2: need anything, twenty four to seven, here's my cell phone.
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 2: And then of course they're like, what are we doing
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 2: with the body? And I'm like, well, god, like, I
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 2: don't even know what we're doing with my parents when
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 2: they die, like, let alone my son. So I need
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 2: to think this through. Now this is really weird. Rewind
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: four years. We're here, we just bought the property, and
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 2: we're hanging with my mom and dad and we're talking
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 2: about end of life, you know, we're talking about. Okay, Mom, Dad,
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 2: like what do you guys, Like, where do you want
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 2: to be buried? Like, you know, in the spiritual side
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 2: of me. And I think the way I am is
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: because I'm an artist and I've lived in chaos my
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: whole life since i was a kid thrown into music.
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: I really crave order and a schedule and a routine
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 2: and consistency. I really crave it, you know, So conversations
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 2: like this is kind of I think part of me
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 2: trying to like know what the hell's happening. So having
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 2: this conversation with my mom and dad, like, well, we
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 2: got these two plots up in Maryland, you know. I'm like,
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 2: well that sounds lame, like I don't know, And I
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 2: was like why. I know, Like I've heard of like
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 2: family cemeteries out in Texas, you know, like on ranches
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 2: and stuff, and so I started looking into it four
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 2: years ago and I'm like reading the criteria and I'm like, okay,
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 2: like we check all the points, like you have to
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 2: when when you create a cemetery on your property, you
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 2: have to basically section it off and survey it. It
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 2: becomes a detached from your property and becomes Parkland, Texas state. Well,
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 2: it's private parkland, but it's part of the state of
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 2: Texas at that point because like who knows what happens
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 2: to your property, but the cemetery is forever told my
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 2: parents and Liz, I'm like, dude, we could actually do
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 2: like this family cemetery. And they're like really, like that's
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 2: a little morbid. I'm like yeah, but like it could
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 2: be a thing, like then we'll all know like where
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 2: we're buried. And and the boys loved this, by the way,
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 2: like Judah and Dorian were all about having a cemetery
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 2: because they were like, oh in like ghost stories and
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 2: like you know, like just like cool like boyshit, you know,
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 2: kids stuff. And so we actually hiked around, the three
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 2: of us to like try to find our spot. And
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 2: so we seriously found a great spot for our family cemetery. Okay,
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 2: that was years ago. Then everyone's like, dude, kind of
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 2: give up them, and I'm like, you're right, it's a
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 2: little weird. So I moved on from that. So we're
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 2: driving home, We're like, what the fuck do we do?
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 2: And Liz said, well, we should call the rabbi. And
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 2: that's when you realize like, oh yeah, like priests and
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 2: rabbis like, no matter what you think, times like this
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 2: is when you realize they serve a really good role
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 2: in this world, you know. Yes, And so we called
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 2: Rabbi Folberg, who bar Mitzvah Dorian, who's been part of
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 2: our lives ever since we moved to Austin, you know,
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 2: since he was a little baby. So I called Rabbi Folbrog.
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 2: I'm like, you're not going to believe this. Dorian's dead
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 2: car crash. And so he introduced me to this funeral director, Mitzi,
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 2: who is incredible through the process. And so I get
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 2: on the phone with Mitzi and she's like, oh, Austin's
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 2: very populated cemeteries. She's like, I'm like, this is kind
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 2: of weird, but like, have you ever done a family burial,
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 2: like on people's property? And she's like, oh, I did
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 2: one in West Texas. Once I said, well, I know
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 2: this sounds weird, but like I already know I researched
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 2: this a few years ago and I know that we
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 2: qualify to do it. She's like, oh, well, that takes
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 2: like months, you know, to approve for the state to
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 2: approve something like that, and She's like, but you told
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 2: me that judge gave you his number and said call
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 2: him twenty four to seven. He's like, if anyone can
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 2: make something like this happen, it would be that judge.
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 2: So it's like, okay, So I called the judge of
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 2: Hayes County and I said, Judge, it's mister Queller, Dorian's dad.
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 2: I know, you know this is a little strange, but
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 2: we can do a family cemetery on our property. I
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 2: just I never set that up, you know, like it's
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 2: that is we want to bury him here on the ranch,
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 2: can we? He said, ah, he said, dude, that takes months.
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 2: You know. He's like telling me the same thing. He's like,
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 2: but he said, let me make a call. We'll get
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 2: back to you. So an hour later, the judge calls
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 2: me and says, mister Queller, your son was so important
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 2: of this community. The state of Texas is going to
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 2: green light this. Just get him into the ground and
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 2: we'll deal with the paperwork later. And that was the
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 2: first moment where I felt like I could control something.
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 2: Because when something like this happens and it shatters you
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 2: so wide open, it's complete chaos, and it shows you
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 2: how little control we have over anything, and so for
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 2: me to be able to call a shot, you know,
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 2: was like just it was everything in that moment for me.
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 2: And so then Jewish custom, you know, you're supposed to
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 2: get the body in the ground pretty quick, twenty four hours.
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 2: We don't do embalming or anything. You go in a
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 2: pine box that just you know, goes back into the earth.
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 2: Very simple, very you know. And so I called Mitzi
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 2: from the funeral home. I said, and I'm like, well,
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 2: who who digs the grave? You know? And she's like, well,
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 2: you really just need someone who can dig. She's like
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 2: there's a specific measurements. She's like she's rattling off the
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 2: measure She's like it needs to be like seven feet long,
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 2: by this and by this depth, you know, real deep.
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 2: And I was like, I know who I'm gonna call.
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 2: Bobby Stevens, the dude who moved the house here, who
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 2: moved the barn here. Yeah, he exactly. So I called
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 2: Bobby Stevens and word it guy. I mean people knew
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 2: at this point. This is maybe a two days later
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 2: or something. And I called Bob, having, Bobby, have you
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 2: ever dug a grave before? And He's like I can't
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 2: say I have, but I would for you. And I
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 2: was like, I just start crying. I'm like, oh, Bobby,
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 2: I'm like, all right, dude, bring your whatever, your back
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 2: ho or tractors, you know, your digger, bring it over,
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 2: you know. And dude, that guy dug the grave. So
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 2: before you leave, we'll walk over to that spot. I'll
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 2: show you. So now this is acred land like it
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 2: already was, but it's like it's like such another level
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 2: for me to be creative here and like and Dorian
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 2: was just trying to get home and so we were
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 2: able to bring him home and he's here so we
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 2: can go sit with them. You know. We got his
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 2: picture up over the door. He's always looking down on
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 2: us and so yeah, he's still with me.
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: We'll be back with more from Bankweller. How did you
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: guys as a family process or not process or continue on?
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 2: Well, they say God only gives us the things we
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 2: can handle. And I believe that. It's really funny, like
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 2: all the cliches and you find as a father, like
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 2: you know, it's there's so many cliches you hear, like
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 2: when you you know, have kids, like oh, someone will
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 2: tell you you're having your first baby, and they're like, oh, man,
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 2: savor every moment, and you're like, hey, you know, but
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 2: like all the cliches are so true. You know, That's
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 2: what you realize as you get older, right, and just like.
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: The priests and rabbis, Yeah, you sometimes lived your life
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: not considering them.
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 2: No, but like actually like not liking them and whatever reason.
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean, And then you realize there's
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 1: a moment where you need them, and cliches like tradition
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: in that way, cliches are really this just universal thing glee.
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: And so there's that one. You know, someone told us,
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 2: you know, well, God only gives us things we can handle,
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 2: and and maybe that's true, and maybe it was always written.
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 2: You know that Dorian was only going to live to
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 2: be sixteen. And luckily Liz and I were so strong
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 2: and our bond with Judah and Judah and Dorian were
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 2: so close. And my mom has a theory that we
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 2: choose our parents like that, like you know, before you
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 2: you're born, you get kind of they're like, hey, you
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 2: can go to these parents or these parents, and you
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 2: kind of get your soul gets to decide, and so
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 2: it's kind of this interesting fun game to kind of
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 2: think through of, Like, so Dorian souls about to come
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 2: to earth and they're like, well, so there's this Ben
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 2: and Liz. You know, the dad's a musician. You always
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 2: wanted to be a musician and you weren't able to
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 2: really do it in your past lives. But this one's
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 2: gonna could be really good for you. Dorian. You're gonna
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 2: have this little brother, Judah you're gonna really love. But
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 2: the bummer is you're only going to live to be sixteen,
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 2: you know, So it's gonna be like a short bang
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 2: like you know, but dude, you're gonna do so much
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 2: and you're gonna make such a big impact, and that
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 2: Judah is gonna be good. Like we're making it where
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 2: Judah is going to be really strong so he'll be
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 2: able to handle this. Your parents have already been through
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 2: dimer tragedies. You know, your mom lost her mom when
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 2: she was eight. So like that, I like to kind
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 2: of game that out. It's again, it lets me feel
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 2: like everything is okay because it was meant to be
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 2: that way.
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's a really beautiful thought.
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 2: So yeah, how did we handle it?
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 5: Yeah?
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 2: We just one step at a time, one breath at
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 2: a time.
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 1: As a musician, How did it impact you creatively?
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 2: So immediately, absolutely zero drive or desire to create anything.
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 2: That's actually thinking about cliches. That's actually one cliche that's
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 2: always been false, at least for me, you know, the
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 2: one where they say, ah, to make good art, you
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 2: got to be depressed and fucked up, and I may
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 2: I don't even make art if I'm depressed and fucked up.
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 2: I actually have to be in a good state of mind.
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 2: So when this all went down, I'm just on the couch,
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 2: like we're just mourning and it's so horrible. And so
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 2: I think it was only you know, maybe a few
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 2: months later when when song ideas start coming to me
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 2: and I wanted that music. Songwriting has just been the
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 2: one thing in my life since I was eight years old.
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 2: That's been the constant, you know, through everything, and so
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 2: I was really happy when a melody came to me
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 2: or a phrase idea or something. I'd walk out to
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 2: the grave, you know, be like, dude, send me some songs, man, Like,
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 2: send me some cool ideas. Dude, Like let's keep this going,
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 2: you know, like let's write a song together, you know.
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 2: And so I would. I started writing, and so that
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 2: became this new album which is called Cover the Mirrors,
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 2: and I call it sort of a moody album, but
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 2: maybe it's not. I'm really bad at talking about my music.
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 2: I really know nothing, but to me, it's a moody,
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 2: sort of down tempo album. There are some rockers and
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 2: there's some like up tempo things, but generally for me,
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 2: it's definitely like a somber feeling.
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 1: Do the songs directly deal with your loss.
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 2: Or yeah, yeah, I think they all do. They all
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 2: definitely to me touch on all the aspects of what
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 2: I've gone through since losing him. The casual list and
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 2: you might not hear every reference being like, oh yeah,
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 2: that's about he lost his son, but it is. You know,
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 2: still I have most of the same emotions that I
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 2: did prior to losing him. It's just this big wound
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 2: in my heart, you know, that's the difference now. But
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 2: I'm still like the same guy. And talking to other
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 2: people that lost children has been a great help for me.
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 2: And there's one guy that I spoke to and he
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 2: told me something really interesting that was, you know, I
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 2: hate to tell you this, but but like now you
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 2: have a superpower. You never wanted it, but you have
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 2: it now. And what it is is like your normal
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 2: happiness scale, Like happiness is kind of here up here,
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 2: and your sadness is like down here. But now your
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 2: happiness is way up here, but your sadness is way
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 2: down there. And also your like spectrum band of empathy
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 2: has just increased. And so like it's like this weird
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 2: like what you've lost everything, but you've also gained this
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 2: new superpower. That's always explaining it to me. It's kind
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 2: of interesting because I feel that, and so it's kind
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 2: of been fascinating too, like just in the songwriting process too,
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 2: and just like lyrics and I don't know, they hit
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 2: differently from me, you know, certain ideas and concepts.
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean the new album is really it's really beautiful,
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 1: you know, thank you, not only just the writing, but
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 1: there's a depth that sonically and in your voice and
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 1: in the chords and yeah, just anthing to it that's
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 1: really just sounds gorgeous.
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 2: Oh well, thank you.
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 1: Would you mind if you're up for playing breaks?
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 2: Whoa Breaks?
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 1: It's one of my favorite songs from it so far.
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I'm so.
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 2: Happy you want to hear this one because I've actually
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 2: never performed it before, so this is the first time
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 2: to sing this for anybody. This is called breaks.
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 3: When you think about being away from you want to
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 3: you convince yourself it'll be okay, but it's not being
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 3: u at first, it's enough, but time makes it.
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 4: It's the breaks. It always breaks a.
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 3: It's the breaks, it always breaks the hard.
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 4: It's the ticks.
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 3: It always takes, feeling that wakes, the moment that the
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 3: falls a pr Yeah, A word sounds sweet. On the
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 3: other end of that line, I'm paralyzed by the state
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 3: arm in lou it's in.
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 4: My mind, my crag.
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 5: Z min crazy haze in mind.
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 3: It's the breaks, it always breaks the hard.
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 4: It's the breaks, it always breaks. The hart. It's the text.
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 3: It always takes, the feeling that at a wakes, the
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 3: moment that it falls apart. Yeah, walking hotel always like
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 3: Olympic tracks, shoot after shoot, talking to myself to stop
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 3: and stretch my back, just boiling for you.
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 4: For two There's absolutely nothing I can do because it's
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 4: the breaks.
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 3: It always breaks the hart. It's the breaks, it always
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 3: breaks the hard. It's the takes, it always takes the
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 3: feeling that awakes the moment.
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 4: That it falls Apard.
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 5: Yeah, same phone call.
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 4: What you do today?
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 5: Cool?
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 3: Gotta go? How could all those hours give us nothing
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 3: to say? I never know.
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 4: My day.
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 3: Move slow still, they give me nothing. I can't show you.
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 3: But the breaks it always breaks.
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 4: The harr Yeah, the breaks, it always breaks.
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 5: The harr.
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 4: It's the takes.
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 3: It always takes, the feeling that awakes the moment that
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 3: it falls. Oh yeah, I want to see the world
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 3: through your eyes again. Want my friend standing by, Wanna
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 3: touch a body, Wanna kiss your skin, tuck in, nest
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 3: on mine, hand on your chest, and cry.
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 4: Cry baby cry.
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 3: It's the breaks, it always breaks, the hard. It's the breaks,
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 3: it always breaks, the hard. It's the tikes, it always takes,
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 3: the feeling that awakes the moment day falls apart. It's
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 3: the breaks, it always breaks. The hard Yeah, the breaks,
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 3: it always breaks the hard.
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 4: It's the eggs and make you feel the wounds that
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 4: want to heal.
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 2: From way too much time.
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 7: Apall cry, Babby cry, cry babyaby, cry, cry Babby crying.
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was really beautiful man, Thank you for requesting
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 1: that one. That song. It's like it's like the course
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 1: is already good. With the it's the breaks always break.
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 1: I mean, I love that.
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 2: I don't even know, like grammatically if it even makes
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 2: itse like. But so I've like thought this through, you know,
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 2: because I got called out on a song once. I
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 2: was hanging out with some friends and William H. Macy
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 2: was there. Oh I love this guy, legend Yeah, And
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 2: I played my song Run, and in the chorus of Run,
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 2: it says, since I I was fifteen, I have ran
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 2: everywhere you can run, and Macy was like, I don't
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 2: know if that's correct. Since I was fifteen, I have ran.
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 2: It's I have run everywhere. But but I have ran
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 2: sounded so much better than run, do you know what
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 2: I mean? And so now ever since then, I'm like
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 2: really think through my lyrics in a different ways. I
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 2: always think of Macy And so with the breaks, that
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 2: always breaks the heart. So I'm calling the song breaks
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 2: b R a k e s like the breaks of
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 2: a car, you know, like the stopping of it. And
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 2: then it's those breaks like it's the stops right right
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 2: that then breaks b our eaks heart. So That's where
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 2: I'm coming at it from.
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 1: That bit is so loaded, but then it goes somewhere else,
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 1: and so then it becomes even like this more rich
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 1: song because it because in the the changes on the
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 1: it's the takes that I was taken. It's do lyrically,
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 1: but it takes.
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 2: Changes, takes the feelings that awakes, the moment that it
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 2: falls apart.
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 1: It's so simple, but it's there's so but it's so.
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 2: It's like this like uh, cathartic. I get into this
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 2: meditative state on that song, you know, And it's actually
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 2: it was around the self titled album. I think I
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 2: was saying, how you know, I was like really like
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 2: zeroing in on my songwriting in a way, and kind
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 2: of I felt like on that album, I finally felt
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 2: like I found I found Ben Kuehler's sound like Run
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 2: was kind of the beginning of that. But there's this
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 2: song Penny on the Train Track and thirteen where it's
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 2: like I just went through this moment where I just
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 2: kept writing verse after verse and but still with like
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 2: a poppy chorus.
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 2: Breaks is sort of one of those songs where it's
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 2: just it's definitely a story. You're in the long ride.
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 2: It's like, Okay, buckle up, this is gonna take a second.
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 2: I hope that it keeps the listeners attention. I mean,
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 2: that's another thing, is like I never want anything to
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 2: be I don't enjoy making overly self indulgent music, you
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 2: know what I mean, And like I am a firm
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 2: believer of like don't boris get to the chorus and like,
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 2: if you're gonna say something like it better be good. So,
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 2: I mean, I hope that And that's sort of a
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 2: challenge when I'm writing a song like breaks. I want
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 2: to take you on a journey, but I like, every
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 2: word's got to mean something, whether it literally means something
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 2: or the rhyme of it is interesting enough to just
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 2: keep you listening, you know. I want it's kind of
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 2: a fun trick to see if how long I can
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 2: keep your attention.
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So it's a great song.
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 2: Thank you. I really I am really flattered that you
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 2: chose that one for me to play. And this one, now,
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 2: this one was like a very private song and I
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 2: even recorded it when no one was here, like I
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 2: just set up to my and then we built it
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 2: on top of that vocal and guitar performance the strings.
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 2: That's another thing about Cover the Mirrors as an album
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 2: that's different for me from my past albums, is that
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 2: there is a lot of strings on this album. You know,
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 2: I've had songs over the years where it's like maybe
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 2: an album will have like one or two songs that
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 2: has strings, or you maybe have one ballad with strings.
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 2: But this one, almost half the album has strings. And
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 2: it wasn't intentional. I just kept hearing these string parts
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 2: in my head now looking back, and when I listened
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 2: to it, there is like this sort of dare I say,
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 2: like a funeral element, memorial vibe that just because of
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 2: that sound, I don't know, but I love it. I
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 2: mean it's really comforting. Also, like the lead violinist on
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 2: all these tracks as a friend of mine in Austin
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 2: Warren Hood, the best violinist fiddle player ever, so good.
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 1: You know what's interesting us who talk about or write
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 1: about music often boil albums down sometimes for finding an
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 1: easy way to just reference something like that album is
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 1: this and you just come up with this very But
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 1: do you do that with your own album?
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 3: Sure?
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 2: I like think like Shasha is like okay, that was
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 2: the opening debut, like a bunch of different types of
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 2: songs on one like here I Am and I can
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 2: do like these different things on my Way is just
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 2: like garage rock. Just right there, band in the room,
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 2: press record on the tape machine, let it run, do
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 2: three takes, pick your favorite and move on. Ben Koehler.
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 2: When that's me playing all the instruments, that was me
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 2: really layering and going for a very lush sound and
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 2: just there's a lot going on in the speakers of
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 2: that one, and then of course changing horses. I think
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 2: of that that's the country.
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 1: Album, you know, Yeah, but.
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 2: I am figure. I mean, this is I guess I'll
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 2: maybe in a years think of it as like the
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 2: Dorian album. I mean, because it is. It's the first
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 2: music I've made since he died.
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 1: So well, I did want to ask to just you
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 1: mentioned thirteen a couple of times. Yeah, that's that's d
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 1: Seron's favorite song of yours.
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 2: Ye it is, man, it's so sweet. Ed is obsessed
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 2: with that song. I think also one of the things
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 2: he really loves about it is like it's like an
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 2: anti pop song. There's no chorus to that song, like
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 2: it really is just verse verse. It was so fun
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 2: to write that song, and that was I finished it
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 2: in the studio when I was doing the self titled album.
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 2: So Gil was there in the control room, I was
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 2: in the live room. I had the opening phrase, We've
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 2: been in the rain, We've been on the mountain, We've
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 2: been around the five And I just kept writing verses,
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 2: and I had like a sheet of paper for each verse,
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 2: and I would shuffle him around on the floor and
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 2: to create eight, What's verse one? What's verse two? And
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 2: I orchestrated the like I knew that the first verse
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 2: and the last one. So I knew I was going
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 2: to end in the taxi when you told me you
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 2: loved me, and then I wasn't alone. I knew that
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 2: was it. You got to have your book ends, at
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 2: least in my mind, that's you know. If I have that,
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 2: I'm good. And then so I just orchestrated each verse
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 2: and what number you know, when they appeared. Ed has
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 2: been a friend now of mine for many years. We
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 2: met funny enough. It was like a Thursday. I was home,
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 2: I was here. I got a call from a booking
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 2: agent and she said, hey, BK, are you in Austin
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 2: tomorrow Friday? And I said, yeah, I'm around. She said,
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 2: can you open for Ed Sheeran? And I was like, yeah,
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 2: I mean I guess so like what happened?
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 5: You know.
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 2: She's like, well, the opening act is stuck in Australia
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 2: something with immigration and like the passport and isn't going
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 2: to make the show, so can you fill in? And
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 2: I was like sure. So I showed up to the gig,
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 2: like I sound checked. I just played solo acoustic and
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 2: I sound checked, and his crew's like getting the stage going,
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 2: and there was just one guitar stand and one guitar
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 2: and I remember asking his crew guys, I'm like, so,
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 2: where's like all the back line, where's the band? He's
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 2: like band? What band?
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 1: Man?
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 2: He just played solo and I was like, oh no, shit,
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 2: like we're in an arena, you know. And I was
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 2: like that is so great, Like I love that because
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 2: I love performing solo, and so many times as an
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 2: artist you're told like you gotta bring a band on
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 2: or like Saturday Night Live didn't let Ed play solo
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 2: on Saturday Night Live because they were like, you gotta
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 2: have a band. So even Ed had to like get
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 2: a band just to do Saturday Night Live, you know.
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 2: But anyway, so I was like good for him. So
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 2: then anyway, we ended up meeting that night. He came
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 2: up to me after my set and he was like, dude,
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 2: and he was like, what do you are You? Can
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 2: you come to Dallas and open tomorrow in Dallas? And
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 2: I'm like sure, And so I did Dallas and then
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 2: he was like, can you do Oklahoma City? And then
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 2: eventually he was just like, just do the rest of
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 2: the tour. The other guys can't make it. And so
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 2: I ended up doing this whole East Coast run with
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 2: Ed back in twenty fifteen, and so we became close friends.
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 2: And he called me when him and his wife Cherry
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 2: were getting married and I was like, mate, can you
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 2: play thirteen at our wedding as our first dance? I
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 2: was like, I'd be honored, you know. So we did
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 2: that and it was really fun, and I just remember
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 2: in a haze that night during the party him stumbling
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 2: towards me with Harry Styles and their arms are around
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 2: each other, and Ed comes up to me. He's like,
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 2: this has ben fucking quella, Harry. Can you believe that
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 2: song thirteen that he played earlier? And Harr's like yeah, man,
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 2: and Ed's like it doesn't have a fucking chorus, and
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 2: then Harry's like, yeah, wow, like a song without a chorus,
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 2: Like they were just like loving that, and I love that,
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 2: you know what I mean, because I mean these are
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 2: like so two of the biggest pop stars in the world.
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 2: Like if you don't have a chorus, you're done, you know, Yeah,
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 2: And I think that's one of the reasons. You know,
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 2: it's obviously like very heartfelt song and you know, it's
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 2: like taken straight out of my love life with Liz.
• 1:44:27
  Speaker 2: And then I think, you know, people like Ed and
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 2: Cherry can relate with that, and you know other people.
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 2: But from a technical standpoint, I just loved that he
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 2: loved that it doesn't have a chorus.
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 1: That's incredible. Man. Well, hey man, thank you for having
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 1: me out and being so generous with your time and
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 1: with your music, and.
• 1:44:48
  Speaker 2: Well, thank you for having me on Broken Record of course, honor.
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 1: In the episode description, you'll find a link to a
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 1: playlist of some of our favorite Bank Collor songs, and
• 1:44:59
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• 1:45:01
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