Latest / Arroe Collins Like It's Live / ER The Oral History From Television And Hollywood Historian Lynette Rice

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ER The Oral History From Television And Hollywood Historian Lynette Rice · Arroe Collins Like It's Live

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  Speaker 1: Have you checked it out yet? Arrow.net. A-R-R-O-E.net. Net as
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: in network. It's 21 different podcasts. A podcast network. One
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: of the biggest shows is Vocal Defrag. We've stopped asking
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  Speaker 1: ourselves the questions. And we put so much pressure on
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  Speaker 1: those around us that they have no answers. And yet
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  Speaker 1: we keep trying to march forward. Vocal defrag. Ask yourself
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  Speaker 1: the questions and then question the answers. You're the only
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  Speaker 1: one that's wearing your pair of tennis shoes. It's only
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  Speaker 1: on arrow.net. A-R-R-O-E dot net. Enjoy your exploration. Lynette, I'm
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  Speaker 1: so proud of you for putting this book together because
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  Speaker 1: haven't we all pretty much based our lives on clickbait
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  Speaker 1: and other rumors that we find on social media? And
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  Speaker 1: now we have a book where we can go, oh,
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  Speaker 1: this is how it really went. Now I can really
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  Speaker 1: check in even deeper.
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  Speaker 2: I wrote the book because I'm very sentimental about the
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  Speaker 2: way broadcast television used to be. You know, I'm 63
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  Speaker 2: years old. And I remember when there was just three
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  Speaker 2: networks and they made shows that we quite literally gathered
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  Speaker 2: around the water cool the next day to talk about.
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  Speaker 2: And ER was one of those big shows. And it
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  Speaker 2: makes me sad that that kind of phenomenon, it just
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  Speaker 2: won't exist today the way that television is now.
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  Speaker 1: Well, I thought there were three networks. It's called MeTV,
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  Speaker 1: Antenna TV, and I think it's called Nest TV. It's
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  Speaker 1: all of these shows that I get to rewatch all
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  Speaker 1: over again. I know.
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  Speaker 2: I know.
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  Speaker 1: It's weird.
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  Speaker 2: I've been watching Family on Tubi. You remember the show Family?
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  Speaker 1: Yes, I do. Oh, my God. See, and that's why
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  Speaker 1: I think this book is so important because, you know,
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  Speaker 1: I'm 64. I'm only one year older than you. And
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  Speaker 1: I know for a fact that the younger generation is
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  Speaker 1: also checking into WeTV and Antenna TV. And they're seeing
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  Speaker 1: these shows, but they don't know the history. And thank
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  Speaker 1: God we've got your book because they're willing to read it.
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  Speaker 2: I hope so, especially if you're a fan of the pit.
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  Speaker 2: I like to say ER walked so the pit could run.
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  Speaker 2: A lot of the same auspices from ER are on
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  Speaker 2: the pit, and they used a lot of the techniques
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  Speaker 2: that they created for ER. So the legacy does live on.
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  Speaker 2: It's a show that the pit, just like ER, treats
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  Speaker 2: you like you're smart. If I implore everyone who watches
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  Speaker 2: television today, even on the streamers on Netflix, pay attention
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  Speaker 2: to how much exposition is in a show. That's people
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  Speaker 2: explaining what's going on just in case you don't get
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  Speaker 2: lost because most TV viewers today maybe pay attention 60%
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  Speaker 2: of the time and the other 40% they're on their
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  Speaker 2: dang phones. And ER didn't have that. ER expected, demanded exposure.
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  Speaker 2: that you pay attention from the very first moment and
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  Speaker 2: stay engaged. And yeah, there's a lot of times you
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  Speaker 2: didn't understand what the heck they were talking about, but
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  Speaker 2: that's okay. That's what made it so inviting. So dramatic
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  Speaker 2: is that you felt like they were treating you like
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  Speaker 2: you were another doctor standing in the ER.
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  Speaker 1: That is so true. And I'll tell you what, how
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  Speaker 1: they reacted to me when I was in having my
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  Speaker 1: heart attack and they told me, Oh, Mr. Mr. Dude,
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  Speaker 1: you're having a heart attack. I looked around. I said,
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  Speaker 1: where are the people from E.R.? If I'm going to go,
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  Speaker 1: they got to be in this room with me because
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  Speaker 1: I know how they do surgery on TV. They can
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  Speaker 1: do that surgery on me right now. But what it
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  Speaker 1: did was it created a conversation between me and the doctor.
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  Speaker 1: And I just love that. And Fandetti was just amazing.
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  Speaker 1: He kept me awake during that whole thing because I
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  Speaker 1: brought up E.R. I'm not E.R., but I brought, yeah, E.R.,
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  Speaker 1: In the way that he goes, hey, look, here's the situation.
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  Speaker 1: I can give you the same thing. They're just part
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  Speaker 1: of us. And is that the truth that you're talking
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  Speaker 1: about when it comes to the fit, that we feel
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  Speaker 1: like that we're really there?
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  Speaker 2: Yes, yes. And it's funny that you bring up your
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  Speaker 2: own experience there. ER really kicked off that engagement between
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  Speaker 2: people and their doctors. They would see something on ER
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  Speaker 2: and then they would immediately pick up the phone. One
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  Speaker 2: of the early classic examples of this was an episode
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  Speaker 2: from season one that ended up winning the first Emmy.
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  Speaker 2: And it was about a woman, a pregnant woman who
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  Speaker 2: came into the ER and she had preeclampsia. And this
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  Speaker 2: was the first time that had ever been depicted on television.
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  Speaker 2: It's a really frightening thing that happens. And so all
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  Speaker 2: these pregnant women the day after were calling their their
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  Speaker 2: OBGYNs and saying, oh, my God, my swollen ankles. Do
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  Speaker 2: I have this? I imagine that must be kind of
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  Speaker 2: overwhelming for doctors. And in fact, if you watch The Pit,
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  Speaker 2: that in itself became a story. You hear Noah Wiley
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  Speaker 2: in season one talking about these doctor Googles. You know,
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  Speaker 2: people today immediately go online to look stuff up. That
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  Speaker 2: must be maddening for doctors today to have to deal
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  Speaker 2: with that.
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  Speaker 1: Now, what was that like for you when you found
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  Speaker 1: out that Steven Spielberg was actually somebody who worked in
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  Speaker 1: an ER room? I mean, I fell over because all
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  Speaker 1: of a sudden now it became real to me. And
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  Speaker 1: it showed that ER was truly connected to something that
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  Speaker 1: we could all relate with.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, he had an experience early on, you know, working
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  Speaker 2: around a hospital. He was basically his studio director. that
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  Speaker 2: was really, Stephen initially had concerns and Noah Wiley's been
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  Speaker 2: out there talking about this. Noah, Stephen wasn't necessarily totally
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  Speaker 2: into having it as a TV show. His head of
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  Speaker 2: television at the time, a dude by the name of
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  Speaker 2: Tony Thermopolis, he was the one that went into the
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  Speaker 2: archives and found the Crichton script because Crichton initially wanted
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  Speaker 2: to make his emergency department script a movie. You know,
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  Speaker 2: obviously he had done Jurassic Park and And Stephen had
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  Speaker 2: had that script. Tony managed to convince Crichton that, no,
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  Speaker 2: you know, this would actually make a really good TV show.
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  Speaker 2: And so he begrudgingly agreed. And of course, as a
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  Speaker 2: gazillion richer because of it. But he he ended up
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  Speaker 2: not being as involved in the first season as you
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  Speaker 2: would think. I mean, he basically just lent his name
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  Speaker 2: and then John Wells and his team ran with it.
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  Speaker 2: But Spielberg obviously came along and, you know, was was
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  Speaker 2: in the I think he was definitely in the truck, too,
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  Speaker 2: when they did the live episode. I mean, he just
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  Speaker 2: he got really involved in the show and he offered
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  Speaker 2: like great notes on the show to to humanize it. Wow.
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  Speaker 1: We got to talk about that book cover because I
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  Speaker 1: would love to know the psychology behind it, because everybody
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  Speaker 1: that I've talked with, we all look at it and
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  Speaker 1: we see with our imaginations. Was it to activate the reader?
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  Speaker 1: Because it's like we know these people, we know these silhouettes.
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  Speaker 1: We know this show. This is my book now.
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  Speaker 2: Okay. Can we like go behind the scenes here?
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  Speaker 1: Please, please.
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  Speaker 2: That was out of necessity because any image from the show,
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  Speaker 2: you know, you have to pay and you got to
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  Speaker 2: pay for and it's a lot of money. And you
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  Speaker 2: have to pay the studio because they own the rights
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  Speaker 2: to all those photos. And so that's their way to
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  Speaker 2: work around it. It was kind of a brilliant way
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  Speaker 2: to do it because, yes, you do recognize. How can
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  Speaker 2: you not recognize Eric LaSalle and Noah Wiley from that picture?
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  Speaker 2: But that was their way around it to not pay.
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  Speaker 2: So really, it was a cost saving measure. How lovely
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  Speaker 2: is that?
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  Speaker 1: Oh, and it does activate our imagination because, I mean,
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  Speaker 1: you can walk into a Barnes & Noble and go, oh,
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  Speaker 1: my God, that's my show right there. Oh, yeah. Let
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  Speaker 1: me see that book right now. And we do. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: I love walking into a Barnes & Noble and just
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  Speaker 1: watching people. And I'm sure the people there at Barnes
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  Speaker 1: & Noble think I'm a freak, but no, I'm doing
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  Speaker 1: market research is what I'm doing.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. I have to imagine... I'm hoping that there's
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  Speaker 2: going to be a lot of Gen Xers, a lot
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  Speaker 2: of boomers that walk into that and they recognize that
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  Speaker 2: photo because that particular photo was synonymous with the show.
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  Speaker 2: It was one image that was used again and again
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  Speaker 2: and again to describe ER, them all standing around a gurney. So,
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  Speaker 2: I mean, this book is for those generations, those of
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  Speaker 2: us who remember when broadcast TV was good. And hopefully
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  Speaker 2: it'll bring warm feelings for how we used to have
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  Speaker 2: it so great.
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  Speaker 1: You bring up something inside the book that I can
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  Speaker 1: almost relate with because I call it something else, but
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  Speaker 1: the dead files. Oh my God, this was very intriguing
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  Speaker 1: to me.
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  Speaker 2: The dead files of finding the script.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, yes. I just thought that was so fascinating. That
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  Speaker 1: to me, that ignited my imagination.
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  Speaker 2: You have to wonder how many scripts like that are
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  Speaker 2: sitting on shelves in rooms like a scene out of
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  Speaker 2: Indiana Jones, you know, these deep rooms of boxes and
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  Speaker 2: whatnot of scripts that we have yet to see. Although
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  Speaker 2: sometimes I feel like, you know, when you watch television today,
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  Speaker 2: I've watched so many TV shows because I've covered TV
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  Speaker 2: for close to 30 years. Sometimes it feels like we
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  Speaker 2: have seen everything. But yes, this was a script that
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  Speaker 2: was just put aside for, by Spielberg's people because he
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  Speaker 2: didn't want to make it a movie. And thank God
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  Speaker 2: Tony went back in and found that. You can play
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: the what-if game. What if somebody never did that? What
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  Speaker 2: if we never got... George Clooney wouldn't be George Clooney
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  Speaker 2: today if it wasn't for his role in ER.
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  Speaker 1: Please tell me that he was down to earth with you.
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  Speaker 1: Did you get the opportunity to see him? Because when
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  Speaker 1: I met him on the red carpet... And it was
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  Speaker 1: in Salisbury, North Carolina at a train depot. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: I felt like that I had finally met my lost brother.
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  Speaker 1: That man was so down to earth and just so relatable.
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  Speaker 2: I've interviewed him many times over the years, and he's
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  Speaker 2: so wonderful.
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  Speaker 1: Yes.
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  Speaker 2: Although, I mean, as a woman, I worry, of course,
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  Speaker 2: that you see like it like. on my forehead emblazoned, like, oh,
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  Speaker 2: my God, I love you, because he looks right at you.
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  Speaker 2: And he doesn't take his eyes off of you. And
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  Speaker 2: so then you start to get nervous and I can
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  Speaker 2: feel my face get flushed. There's a great anecdote in
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  Speaker 2: the book. I write a whole chapter on what it
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: was like to work with George because in addition to
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: being incredibly charming, he was also a huge prankster. But
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  Speaker 2: I have an anecdote where a reporter came in who
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: said to the publicist, I don't get the appeal of
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: George Clooney. And so the publicist said, just you wait.
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  Speaker 2: And so she sent the reporter off for the one
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  Speaker 2: on one with George on set. You know, George was
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: kneeling down, talking to her, relating with her. And when
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: she came back, she said, OK, yeah, now I get it.
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  Speaker 2: Now I get it. He's a really, really kind man.
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  Speaker 2: And because his dad was a journalist, too. So he
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  Speaker 2: understands what we need. We know we need this information.
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  Speaker 2: But every time you talk to him, he doesn't sound bored.
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  Speaker 2: He just he sounds like this is like the first
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  Speaker 2: interview that he's done. It's so great.
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  Speaker 1: Please do not move. There's more with Lynette Rice coming
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  Speaker 1: up next. The name of the book, ER, The Oral History.
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  Speaker 1: We are back with Lynette Rice. Do you think that ER,
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  Speaker 1: if it were released brand new today in this binge-watching world,
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  Speaker 1: would it have the impact that it has on our
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  Speaker 1: lives now? Because those were the days when we had
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  Speaker 1: to wait week by week for that next episode.
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  Speaker 2: You know, I have to believe... That it would. I mean,
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  Speaker 2: and I implore anybody to try their luck. It's streaming
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  Speaker 2: right now on Prime.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, it is.
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  Speaker 2: You can watch the whole dang thing. And it still
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  Speaker 2: holds up. And, you know, I watched a lot of
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  Speaker 2: episodes for the book, but I was just amazed at
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  Speaker 2: how engaged I was. Because it did get a little personal.
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  Speaker 2: There were some serialized stories to it, but it's not
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  Speaker 2: as soapy as Grey's Anatomy. So it doesn't get annoying.
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  Speaker 2: And so I feel like, yes, it would. But there
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  Speaker 2: wouldn't be– I don't think a network could really afford
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  Speaker 2: it the way that they had to afford it then.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, at one point, NBC ended up paying $ 13
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  Speaker 2: million an episode, which was an extraordinary amount of money.
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  Speaker 2: Warner Brothers, of course, did right by turning around and
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: reinvesting that money into their actors. Those actors were making
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: a ton of money. And so they just couldn't afford
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: paying those kind of salaries now. Instead, they'll pay a
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  Speaker 2: ton for the lead actors. you know, the lead doctor,
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  Speaker 2: but everybody else will be complete unknowns on medical dramas,
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  Speaker 2: which we see today. So I have to believe it
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  Speaker 2: would hold up.
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  Speaker 1: I'll tell you where I used ER as a radio tool.
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  Speaker 1: And that is, is that when you're doing midday and
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  Speaker 1: afternoon drive on radio, and you're trying to connect with
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  Speaker 1: that listener who's watching daytime soap operas, you bring up
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  Speaker 1: ER and that was their nighttime soap opera. And my God,
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  Speaker 1: I mean, every blue haired lady, every person period would
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  Speaker 1: come in into that conversation. Just feeling like that. You just,
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  Speaker 1: you just talked about their world. I used it as
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  Speaker 1: a radio tool.
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  Speaker 2: Wow. Wow. That's really, that's really nice. It's funny too,
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  Speaker 2: because I never considered it soapy. And in fact, I
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: remember at the very beginning, this launched the same time
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: Chicago Hope did on CBS. CBS was so arrogant and
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: thought that, look, we have David E. Kelly. We've got
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: the huge auspices. There's no way that ER, which was
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: a bunch of unknowns, was going to prevail. But it did.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: And I remember I was the snob and I watched
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: Chicago Hope first for a while before realizing that, you
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  Speaker 2: know what, I'm kind of missing out. ER really is
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  Speaker 2: a great show. It did move faster. It felt, even
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: just the title sequences, just the difference between the title
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  Speaker 2: sequence on Chicago Hope and seeing Eric LaSalle punched in
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  Speaker 2: the air on ER. I mean, I did a whole
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  Speaker 2: chapter on the title sequence because I love that title sequence.
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  Speaker 2: The music sounding like it's a heart monitor. I mean,
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: that already kind of ratchets up the tension just listening
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: to that. And then just seeing Eric LaSalle I mean,
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: I want that image to be on his tombstone when
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: he dies, his punching the air, because it's so freaking ghoul.
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  Speaker 1: Well, I've always thought that ER was actually the inspiration
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: behind all the reality shows, all these live cop shows,
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  Speaker 1: emergency shows, pet shows, and things like that. I always
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  Speaker 1: thought that it started with ER first, and then someone said,
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  Speaker 1: we got to give them reality and not a script.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you're right. I think you're right. It's
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: a hard show to live up to. But everyone's borrowed
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: from it. You know, at this point, everyone borrows from
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  Speaker 2: everybody else. You know, there will always be the staples
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: of television, the medical show, the cop show. And so
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: they will always steal from one another. They don't really
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: do the same thing that ER did and had that
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: continuous one-er shot that went through several rooms. They do
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: that more with the pit, but we don't see that
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  Speaker 2: as much as we used to. And that in itself
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: was such a great technique that would help amp up
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: the freneticism of these TV shows. We went on to
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: see it with West Wing, which made it so great. Again,
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: it made it feel like you were in the room
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: with them.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: Well, we were starving for storytelling and then, I mean,
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: and it gave us exactly what we need. So, I mean,
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: it's like, do we want this to come back to
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  Speaker 1: our prime time or do we just want to hit
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: prime itself and just keep watching those episodes over and
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: over again? I prefer to have the old ones because
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: it's like being in a place that you already know.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I know. I know. It's an interesting study and
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: like why we reach for the old shows. What does
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: that say about what shows are on today, because there
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: are plenty of new shows that are worth our time.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: Widow's Bay is a great example. It won the Emmys.
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: It's a great show to invest in. But a lot
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: of people don't want to pay a ton of money
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: for a bunch of different platforms. And so it's easier,
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: it's cheaper to go on the Tubies of the world
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: and go seek out the old shows that we loved.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: It's like I can't tell you how many times I've
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: binged The Good Wife because I love that. It's like
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: comfort food for me when I'm so depressed about headlines.
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: I'll go and watch The Good Wife again because they
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: solve problems every week on that show. It's really quite
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: reassuring to go back to what we know. And I
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: think ER is the same way. I mean, I watched that.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: it's just, it's great. It makes me nervous, but it's great.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: I love the way that you bring up to be.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: And the reason why this is such a personal egomaniac thing, but,
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: but I was the guy that they were talking with
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: when the thing just came out and they go, we
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: got this brand new thing. It's called to be, we
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: don't know if it's going to work. We're going to
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: put a bunch of old shows up there. We hope
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  Speaker 1: it does. And then to see where to be is today.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: I laugh like a child because it's like, Oh my God,
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: I talked to these people when they were fricking nobodies.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: Yes. Yes. The, the, The prevalence of they're called fast
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: channels that they're, you know, they're created and they're basically
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: their only currency are old shows. And they're more and
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: more popular because there's way too many platforms to us
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: to choose. I mean, I subscribe to a lot simply
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: because I cover television, but it's a pain in the ass.
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's a lot. There's a lot. And most
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: of the time I spend just rifling through old movies
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: trying to watch. I don't necessarily invest in all the series.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: I certainly don't invest in all the series on Apple.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: It becomes too much. It's too much to look for. Yeah.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: Now, as a writer, as an author, as a journalist,
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: all three of your different personalities or roles, what is
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: it like to put a book together when you've got
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: a free open field like that of walking through the
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: state of Wyoming? In other words, everything else had rules
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: and regulations to follow by a book. It's yours.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: It's so hard. It's so hard, especially trying to break down.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: 15 seasons into 300 pages. You can't cover it all.
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: And even like doing interviews about this book, people bring
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: up episodes that, oh, yeah, you're right. That was a
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: good one. You just you can't cover it all. So
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: you have to try to figure out the common themes
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: that we can all relate to, you know, learning the dialogue,
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: trying to remember everything. big words, big $ 20 words that,
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: you know, I had to Google continuously to try to
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: figure out how to spell them just for the book.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: I mean, that happened with Scott Grimes. He remembered some
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: line of dialogue that, you know, he still remembers it today,
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: but I had to call him back and like, dude,
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: what was that word again? I can't find it because
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: I was trying to sound it out and it wouldn't,
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: it wouldn't show up in AI Google. And so, um, um,
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: so I tried to like break it down and, To subjects,
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: you know, that would be appealing. And of course, George
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: Clooney got his own chapter because, again, he was a
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: prankster and he was lovely to work with.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: Where can people go to find out more about everything
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: that you're doing? Because like I said, you are you
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: have so many roles that you're fulfilling. And I just
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: want everybody to embrace everything that you are.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's so nice of you. Well, you can find
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: me at on Instagram at Lynette Rice, Lynette Rice. Um, I, I,
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: I talk about TV, but I also talk a lot
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: about high rocks. I, I, I love doing the sport
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: high rocks. Um, um, but, um, um, and I, I still,
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: I can still contribute to deadline, which is a Hollywood trade. Um,
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: Hollywood is still chugging along despite mergers, killing this, that
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: sort of thing. Um, so yeah. you can find me there.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: Please come back to this show anytime in the world, man.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: And Lynette, the door is always going to be open
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: for you.
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: You're so nice, Arrow. Thank you so much. I love
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: your name, Arrow. I'm sure there's a story behind that
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: first name.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: It's a radio name. My first wife is the one. Well, actually,
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: she was writing her first book, and I was the
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: one that said Arrow Stevens, and she said no. And
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: it's going to come with an E, and your last
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: name is Collins. And so I had to bring that
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: character to life so that she could write that story.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: So in real life, you're just like Bill Jones? Is
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: that your name?
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: If I told you my first name, I'm going to
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: tell you because you're going to laugh your ass off.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: It's Clarence. So why would I want to have a
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: name like, see what I mean? Yeah, I heard you giggle.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: See what I mean? You would go with Arrow, too,
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: wouldn't you? Well, it's Collins.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: It has a nice ring to it, though.
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: Oh, God, no. Well, you be brilliant today, okay?
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: Hey, Arrow. Yes, sir?
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: Arrow, if you want to go a few extra minutes,
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: if you need to, I just realized that the next
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: one isn't until 10. 28 or so 27 so if
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: you need a couple more minutes feel free.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: If you're bored with me that's okay too i will
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: not feel offended.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: Oh i'm not bored with you i'm so inspired by
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: you because you understand the importance of of the history
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: that we've walked through and we want to so willingly
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: give it to the next generation and and the thing
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: about it is they're doing it they're taking it from
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: us but we want to make sure they have the
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: right experience like we went through.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: Yes it's because we're old we live through it we
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: lived through it when TV was good yes yes I
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: wish people understood that they used to be able to
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: get TV for free and you didn't have to pay
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: for it and there were really great shows on television
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: it makes me very sad what TV has become and
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: I wish I mean kids today are fine they have
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: plenty of enjoyment but it does make me feel bad
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: that they're fine to watch a TV show on their phone.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: And even then, they don't really have the attention span
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: to watch a full episode. They'd rather get into little
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: drips and drabs on TikTok and on Instagram, which does
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: make me sad.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: Well, you know what? And I'm going to give a
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: cheap plug to iHeartRadio. This is the very reason why
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: I've always loved and supported iHeartRadio, is the way that
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: they understand that, that radio is free. just like television
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: when we grew up was free. And that these podcasts,
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: you can't leave the airwaves and start charging $ 5. 99 for
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: an episode. And it's like, my God, these listeners have
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: a hard enough life. They're trying to make it. Give
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: them something that came to you for free. It is
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: your art. It is your entertainment.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: Right, right. I mean, I think there's a generation that
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: doesn't really understand how it exists, that free radio does
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: exist because they're so used to listening to Sirius. Yeah, it's...
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: It's mind boggling.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: One of the things that you cover in this book,
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: and I know that other authors are going to be
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: loving this and they're going to be inspired by it,
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: especially since you talk about the honest to God typewriter,
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: which I still crave that sound. John's commitment to the
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: writer and to hear that his mother could hear him
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: typing in the basement. My God, that was such a
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: smiling moment for me when you talk about that.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes. And not only was he a great writer,
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: he was a great boss. It's very difficult for writers
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: to become showrunners in town so much that John, bless
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: his heart, he started a showrunners program through the WGA program.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: to teach writers how to become bosses because it's very,
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: it's very hard to run a writer's room and to
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: be the boss of a show. And just like in
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: any corporation, it's finding people who are great bosses. I mean, we, we've,
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: we all know it's, it's impossible. Think about all the
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: assholes that we've worked for over the years. You just
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: can't make them. John was that rare bird who not
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: only was a great writer, but he was a great
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: boss and he wasn't, ego driven and he, he knew
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: his success was all about the success of his people.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: And I'm forever grateful to him. I've always had such
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: respect in him. All of his shows have been great.
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: His movies have been great. Um, um, because he helped
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: to grow a great generation of, of writers.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: See, and I'm so glad that you explained it that
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: way because you're right. I mean, I felt like the
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: boss was inside the writer's room and I know how
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: I get when I, when there are people around me
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: that are up there in the management position, I'll call
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: them out and say, how much did that juice cost
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: you that you're drinking right now? Is it good? Is
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: it affecting the way you're thinking today? Yeah, I get it.
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: I get it. And then they look at me kind
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: of strange, but I'm going to be that one that's
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: going to do that. If they're drinking too much of
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: the juice and they're trying to be creative too, it's like,
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: which side of the fence are you going to be
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: on the boss? Are you going to be the writer?
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: You got to make up your mind.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: That's a good story. That's a.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: Good G story. Because it seems like that, you know,
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: it's like when I would do commercials for doctors and,
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: and it was like, you would do this beautiful piece
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: of work, but it takes five people to, to accept it. And, and,
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: and the only four doctors approved it. And you're going,
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: Oh my God, we got to start all over. And
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: I often wonder if shows like ER had the same
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: exact thing that you had so many people that were
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: showing them how to be doctors on TV, but they
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: didn't get everybody's approval.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: Right, right. It's funny, the one thing about the ER,
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: a technique they fully established was finding doctors who wanted
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: to make the transition into Hollywood. And that's something that
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: we continue to see today. All medical dramas now have
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: a doctor writer on the set. And in fact, one
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: of the doctor writers on The pit, Joe Sachs, began
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: on ER. And there were several doctors on ER. And
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: they brought us those real-life stories, like a woman who
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: has preeclampsia, to the show, which made it all the
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: more real. They still kind of played in the what-if game. Like,
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: if they wanted to go something a little more outlandish,
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: they'll ask themselves, could this happen? It could happen. And
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: so they would put in this and you see that
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: a lot more on Grey's Anatomy than you did on ER.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: Like I remember there was an episode of Grey's Anatomy
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: where a dude fell into like a pool of cement
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: and he was brought into the ER as in a
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: big block of cement. And there was a race against
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: time to crack him out of the cement before it
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: crushed him to death. I mean, come on. I mean,
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: seen that? No, no. So, but thank God for the
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: doctors to bring that realism.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: You have some realism inside this and it starts with
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: the opening pages of the book. And I have a
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: feeling that the hardcore fans of ER are going to
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: take advantage of it with a list of names of
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: everybody involved. I know what I would love to do,
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: walk around and collect signatures and have their signature on
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: your page.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: How nice would that be? Yes. I mean, there's such
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: an It's such an incredible cast and, I mean, how
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: huge they were. And that's why it's so great whenever
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: they get back together. They got back together for a
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: reunion during COVID. It was for a fundraiser for a charity.
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: And they all came on and shared their stories. And inevitably,
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: the conversation will go back to, you know, what a
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: card George was on set and how much he loved
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: to play around. But what a fun place to be.
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: This was a no-drama show. No drama. They all got
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: along so well. And that's a testament to John Wells' management.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: Is there a show today that has your attention that
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: you're going to be writing a book about in 25 years?
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: No, I can't. It's too hard.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: I'm with you. I'm with you.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: Well, I just finished another book that will come out
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: next year for the 25th anniversary. Hold on to your
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: hat of the freaking Bachelor. What?
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: Oh, Howard Stern's going to be all over that damn
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: book right now. I'm going to tell you that right now. Oh,
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: my God. That's like his show. Does he watch that?
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: He loves that show?
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: Are you kidding me? That is like his life, man.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: Oh, it's crazy. Talk about drama. That show is crazy.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: Just freaking crazy.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: And so, yes, that's what I did. I don't know
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: what I surely won't write about medical dramas after that. But,
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: you know, after reporting on The Bachelor, yes, I need
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: a break. Talk about going down a deep well. And
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: there's so many incredible stories on that on that show
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: and what it did to people. And I had to
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: constantly remind myself they signed up for this.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: They signed contracts that literally said we can humiliate you
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: on television. And they signed the contracts anyway.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: So, yeah. I want to talk to you after you
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: have that interview with Howard Stern because I just know
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: you're going to have so many deeper stories about Bachelor
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: because he's going to show you things that you didn't
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: see and you're going to show him things. Oh, my God,
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: that experience. That's got to happen.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: Thank you for that tip. I'm going to push them
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: for that. We got to get on Howard Stern.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: Please do. Please do. And please come back to the show.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: My God, I can't figure out how 28 minutes went
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: by in three seconds.
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: You're so nice. It's because we spent all that great
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: time talking about Errol Collins.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: No, we talked about you. We talked about you.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much. I really appreciate it, Clarence. You're
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: the best.
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: Oh, I love you for saying that. You be brilliant, okay?
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: Talk to you later, Arrow.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: Bye-bye.