Latest / Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast / MBA Wire Taps 316—Journalism to Banking. Pakistani to the U.S. Real estate, from Peru

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MBA Wire Taps 316—Journalism to Banking. Pakistani to the U.S. Real estate, from Peru · Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast

• 0:14
  Speaker A: Welcome to the clear. Admit MBA Admissions Podcast. I'm Graham Richmond, and this is your wiretaps for Monday, October 16, 2023. For more than 100 years, Emory University's Guisueta Business School has been a training ground for principal leaders and a laboratory for powerful insights. Whether you're looking to accelerate your career or make a career pivot, Emory's one year and two year full time MBA programs prepare you for a lifetime of career confidence. Learn more about Emory's top 20 MBA with top five career outcomes, offering world class academics and small by design classes delivered in a dynamic, global city. More at Emory Biz slash clearadmit. I'm joined by Alex Brown from Cornwall, England. Alex, how are things going this week?
• 1:03
  Speaker B: Very good. Thank you, Graham.
• 1:05
  Speaker A: So I'm recording this episode in a hotel room in Lewisburg, Pennsylvania, but I appreciate you adjusting your schedule to make this work. It's always a challenge when I'm on the road, but this has been a really exciting time. I know last week we were talking about Harvard Round One interview invites, but what's been happening this week?
• 1:22
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, we saw last week Booth released some interview invites, but also lots of schools are now trickling them out. We've seen plenty of invites, I think from well, I know from Stanford, from Berkeley, from Dartmouth, Tuck, and so on and so forth. So we're definitely sort of really hitting the interview invite season now for round one. We still have some application deadlines upcoming. This week is Stern has its round Two actually in Keenan flagler. But also we've got a couple of these early actions that have decision deadlines. Fuqua and Darden are releasing decisions next week. So, yeah, lots going on.
• 2:08
  Speaker A: Yeah, this is, like, such always super busy kind of one of the things I don't know if you noticed this, but there was some guy on Reddit who mined livewire data for the last God knows how many years to sort of try and figure out what percentage of the Stanford interview invitations had been issued thus far. And his conclusion know small sample size because Livewire doesn't have all the data, but it seems like there's still many more to come, was the conclusion. So there's a little bit of stress when schools trickle them out, as you've said. So let's see.
• 2:41
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, like Berkeley, they'll trickle them out right up until their decision release deadline, or at least that's what they've typically creates a lot of anxiety.
• 2:51
  Speaker A: Yeah. So one other thing, Alex, I think you know this. In fact, I'm almost certain you have, because we were talking about it in Slack and stuff, but I did want to say we have a sponsor for the podcast now, and so people are probably hearing me do a little readover about Emory Guisueta. So really excited to have a sponsor for the podcast and appreciate their support. Just very cool to be working with them. So it's nice to have them on board.
• 3:11
  Speaker B: Yeah, brilliant. I've been really pushing to see if we could get a sponsor.
• 3:16
  Speaker A: Yeah, well, so far so good. We'll see. Maybe they'll back out after a few episodes, but so far so good. The other thing, this Wednesday we're doing an event with one of my favorite organizations, management Leadership for Tomorrow, also known as MLT. We're doing an event with them. It's at noon Eastern this Wednesday. You can sign up by going to clearadmitmlt all lowercase all one word. And the event's going to be about sort of figuring out timing for MBA applications as well as whether the degree is right for you. And we've got some, I think at least one MLT alum who's been through their program. And for those of you who don't know, MLT helps underrepresented candidates kind of navigate their way to business school and beyond, even in the kind of career domain. So very cool stuff. That's this Wednesday at noon Eastern. Please join us for that. We have a bunch of other events coming, but I don't want to waste too much time because we have a lot to cover. We have a real humans webinar later this month, and then we're going to be doing some events with deferred enrollment MBA programs in November. So stay tuned for details on that. Alex, I did want to ask you to if you'd be willing to say a word or two about a new content series that you kind of and this was sort of your brainchild. I know you worked with Lauren on our team to bring it to life, but do you want to talk about the sustainability thing that we're doing now?
• 4:32
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I'm really excited to see this new series. So the idea is to really scrutinize the top tier programs that we cover and what are they doing to prepare students for a net zero world in which we've got to navigate in the idea that really business needs to lead the way for us to successfully navigate the sort of climate change issues and various other yeah. We created five questions for the series to roll out to all the programs that we cover on Clearadmit and really excited that Harvard was actually the first to respond and responded very quickly with a very thoughtful and very detailed assessment. Not only what are they doing in the core curriculum? So to me that's fundamental because that's what are all students getting exposure to regardless of their plans and their goals, and then what are they doing in their sort of extracurricular and cocurricular experience? And then what is the school doing itself to be net neutral and net zero, I should say, and so forth. So, yeah, really excited and I'm learning a lot just by reading what these folks are doing.
• 5:49
  Speaker A: Yeah. So you mentioned the core curriculum. I actually pulled just a little thing I thought people would be interested in. So if you're thinking about Harvard's core curriculum. Here's what they told us in the article. They said, during the first year required curriculum, students are exposed to over 20 cases covering environment and sustainability content. In the spring of 2023, a new required course was added. It's called The Social Purpose of the Firm, which explores the role business plays in addressing environmental and societal issues. During the second elective curriculum, that's like the sort of second year students may choose from over 14 core and 20 related courses that explore the integration of climate change and environmental issues. So there's a lot in their core now that probably wasn't there even just five years ago or something. So very good to see that. And yeah, I look forward to the other articles in that series. So we're catching up with all the top schools so far as I know. But yeah, just really appreciate you kind of spearheading that and working with Lauren and so very cool stuff.
• 6:46
  Speaker B: Very good.
• 6:47
  Speaker A: Yeah. So the next thing I did want to say is we did run an admissions tip on the site about selecting and preparing recommenders, so please check that out. We also continue to run real humans pieces. So we caught up with students who are current first years at Duke's Fuqua School of Business. We also caught up with University of Toronto Rotman students and University of Michigan ross So we had three articles come out. Again, if you're applying to any of these schools, this is kind of must read stuff. It gives you so much information about what it's really like in these programs and great tidbits to throw into your essays if you're working on round two applications. We also caught up with the Class of 2025 kind of profiles that we've been running. We continue to stay on top of those. We ran pieces about Carnegie Mellon, NYU Stern, UT Austin McCombs and MIT Sloan. And I know we're busy today, so I'm not going to dive into too many of the details, but the classes that these schools are bringing in this year continue to be really strong with these four institutions. I was really impressed by how steady they held compared to last year because we talked about being in a little bit of an environment where there were fewer applications last year at some of these schools and how are schools adjusting? But the stats really held across the board. I mean, NYU maintained all of their kind of key metrics, and they have 43% women in their program, and they had a decline in app volume, so they somehow managed. Class size is the same, but they did a great job bringing in an impressive class. I think their GMAT score is like, a 730 or something.
• 8:22
  Speaker B: Are you only saying that, Graham? Because, you know, one of their adcom likes to listen to this show.
• 8:27
  Speaker A: Oh, that would no, we can't pander, Alex. No, but similarly, MIT did the same thing, like super steady they had, like, one point different on the GMAT or something, but everything's kind of unchanged.
• 8:41
  Speaker B: Nice. What is Sloan's GMAT? Is it super high?
• 8:44
  Speaker A: It is pretty high. I have it here. I'm glad that you asked because I'm, like, semi ready to talk about this stuff. Yeah. So their average GMAT score is a 729, and the middle 80% is 700 to 760.
• 9:00
  Speaker B: Wow.
• 9:00
  Speaker A: That actually bumped up a little bit, I noticed. So, yeah, pretty impressive stuff. So, in any event, read those profiles. I know the schools publish them. What's great about the way that we do it on our site is we try to do them all the same. So we're trying to do apples to apples, and we run them every year, so you can even go back and look at prior years. So, yeah, that's all up on the site. A couple more housekeeping items before we get into our candidates. I was absolutely thrilled to catch up with Jamie Shine, who's the Stanford oh, gosh. She's the Dean of Admissions and Financial Aid at Stanford. And we did a podcast and so that aired last week. So some of you tuning in maybe have already listened or saw it in the feed, but if you missed it, give it a listen. There's one thing she said that I thought was so great when talking about essays, and they have that what matters most to you and why essay. And she talked about this line that she said. She said it's not the what, it's the so what. There's such an eloquent, kind of fun way to talk about the need to explain it's not so much what matters matters most to you. It's like, why does this matter to you and what's sort of behind it? So that podcast is in the feed. Please give it a listen. Alex, I don't know if you've had a chance to listen to that yet. You're probably pretty busy.
• 10:10
  Speaker B: Yeah, I haven't listened to it yet, but as you know, it's my favorite essay, business school essay. So, yeah, no, that makes perfect sense. Not the what, but the so what.
• 10:18
  Speaker A: Yeah, very cool. And then we also caught up. I did an episode with Manish Daria, who's the head of product management at GMAC, and I did a whole interview with him about the GMAT Focus edition, the new test, how it's scored, why they changed it. I learned a lot. And just about basically, he admitted to the fact that the existing test, as it was, was starting to get the curve, the distribution curve for the results was getting kind of skewed, especially on the quantitative side of things. And so he did a great job explaining how they've kind of recalibrated the test and what scores will look like and how they're working with schools to make sure that the schools understand the differences. So just give that a listen, too. I think that aired late last week, so it should be up in the feed as well.
• 11:00
  Speaker B: Yeah, it sounds like two terrific podcasts. I don't feel bad that our most listened to podcasts never include me, but it's clear that these podcasts are going to be super helpful and interesting. Yeah.
• 11:14
  Speaker A: And then last thing, we got a really nice review from a candidate. I mean, their handle was EJK one four four or something like that. But anyway, they left us a review on Apple podcasts, and they just wrote great insights into the MBA admissions cycle. I'm one year out from applying, and it has been helpful for me to listen to Alex and Graham provide an insider's perspective on the process, which has allowed me to envision how I want my admission cycle to go. Let's kick on, they said. So, Alex, they're stealing your line.
• 11:42
  Speaker B: I love.
• 11:46
  Speaker A: But they I think that's great and know, the fact that they're a year out and tuning in already super smart. I mean, it's just going to really help them as they navigate this process. So if you want to reach out to Alex or myself, just send an email to info@clearadmit.com. Use the subject line wiretaps. Alex. That's all I had. I know it was a lot, but are you ready to talk about this week's candidates?
• 12:07
  Speaker B: I guess I should say let's kick on.
• 12:09
  Speaker A: There you go. All right, so this is Wiretaps candidate number one. So our first candidate this week has seven schools on the target list, and those schools are Columbia, Dartmouth, Harvard, NYU, stanford, Wharton, and UVA Darden. This candidate's been working in investment banking and would like to stay in the investment banking world. GMAT score is a 730. They have a 3.3 undergraduate GPA, have been working for four years. They're located in Shanghai. This is a Chinese candidate. They did all their studies there, obviously, because that's where they were born. They want to start school next fall. Interestingly enough, they mentioned that they did a Bachelor of Arts in Journalism at a top three university in mainland China. Okay. And then they decided to switch to business. And so they started interning. They did consulting, banking, internships, and then they explained that sort of had an impact on their GPA, which is a three three. But they made this Pivot, ended up in banking, and they actually have a return offer. So I presume that means they can go back to the bank if they want after business school. They did mention that they have a number of outside activities. They were involved in university in the LGBT and Feminism Club. They also did some mentorship with children living in low income neighborhoods in Shanghai after undergrad, and they did a lot of volunteer work during COVID and they actually currently volunteer at an AIDS health center. So, Alex, what do you make of this candidate? It's kind of interesting journalism to investment banking. Numbers look good, but the GPA is a little bit low. So what do you think of this?
• 13:44
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I'm quite curious about this candidate know, they've pivoted from journalism in China, which yeah, frankly, I think I'd try to pivot out of that into investment banking can't be an easy pivot, but they aggressively went about it by doing internships in sort of business and consulting banking fields during their undergrad to set them up for that pivot. So I'm quite impressed, I think, with how they've managed to do that and then work in investment banking at a boutique firm. Well, we know what that means. They're a small firm and they have a return offer, and they are a top rated employee coming off of a journalism degree. So I think that to me, that sounds pretty impressive and so forth. My only concern, and this is what I asked you before we came on air, Graham, is they're from China. Well, in the old days, when, you know, young and working in admissions at Wharton, china was an overrepresented apple, much like India, right? So if those folks didn't apply in the first round, they were at a significant disadvantage just because with the volume of candidates, quality candidates coming from those know, you get quite overwhelmed with that sort of round one pool. But is China still an overrepresented country? Probably not so much. So maybe round two is fine for this candidate. And they've got some interesting stories to tell. Their GMAT 730 sort of helps overcome a slightly lower GPA, which they explain a little bit. I like their sort of additional activities and so forth. So overall, Graham, I think I quite like this candidate.
• 15:36
  Speaker A: Yeah, you actually raise a good mean. We don't see a ton of Chinese candidates. I mean, we see more Indian candidates on our website, I would say, than mean. Maybe this podcast is not readily available in China or something, or even the mean because of the radical ideas that we're espousing here. I don't know, but I think that.
• 15:54
  Speaker B: It'S that is a factor, though, Graham. I think, you know, obviously a lot of stuff in China goes on behind the Chinese firewalls. We're not going to get the same traffic to our website no, you're right. As we would from India. So I've always presumed that's the case. And there's still quite a volume of Chinese candidates applying, but just not using our resources. But maybe I've overthought that a little bit.
• 16:21
  Speaker A: No, I tend to agree. I think of China as still being a pretty big market. What I would say, though, in this instance is that I believe this is a female candidate. I mean, I'm not certain, but they were part of the feminism club. I mean, I guess it's possible that it's a male. It's just hard to know, right. But either way, I think this candidate is unique. I mean, journalism to banking, really interesting outside activities, doing amazing volunteer work, et cetera. So I feel like, even so, if overrepresented or not. I feel like they can be fine in round two and GMAT score 730 is right in line with most of their target schools. Maybe even a tick above for a couple of them and a tick below for some, but it's right there. I do think that there will need to be a little bit of an explanation for the GPA because it's a little below average. Although my suspicion is that there might be less grade inflation in China than there is in the US. And it sounds like they have a really good explanation in terms mean they basically have to switch majors, right? So yeah, I like this person's chances. I mean I will say I'm not seeing a school jump off the page as like an guess. I guess you could say that there know, Harvard, Wharton, Stanford are on the list. Columbia, I mean these are all hard schools to get into that will be quite competitive. But I mean there's also a bunch of the kind of top 16 schools. So I'm feeling okay about this. As long as he or she executes on the application, I think they're going to be in good shape. It's a really interesting story and yeah, strong outside activity. So this is not a one dimensional kind of banker from China kind of thing.
• 17:57
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean that's what I really like is they obviously made a decision early in life to go into journalism. I e undergrad in journalism. They did actually win some awards during their undergraduate for sort of PR and advertising competitions stuff. So they committed to it. But they pivoted. They did their internships elsewhere because they had a change of focus, navigated that change of focus into a full time gig and investment. I think that is reasonably impressive.
• 18:30
  Speaker A: Yeah. And I'm going to ask you one more question and I want to add one more thought. So the thought is that it's interesting to me that they won these awards in kind of PR and marketing and yet now they're doing investment banking that suggests a really interesting kind of well rounded candidate with different skill sets. So that's great. The question I had for you is they have an offer to go back and so I presume you would say we'll play that offer, know, talk about that. They're basically sponsored in effect. I mean it sounds like they'll be welcomed back with open arms, but do you think that's what they should do in terms know when they graduate?
• 19:03
  Speaker B: Well, I mean I would assume if they're coming to the US for an MBA, they might want to spend a year well, they're going to do an internship maybe in the US to get some sort of experience over here between their first and second years. Yeah, it depends. I mean we do see sponsored candidates going a different pathway and sort of paying back that sponsorship or whatever it might be. So I guess it will depend what opportunities really arise for this candidate. But at the end of the day, if they've got a sponsorship, that's a really good sort of it's great to know agreed. That they have that support, and I think the adcom appreciate it too.
• 19:43
  Speaker A: Yeah, so I think they need to make sure that's in the file because they might not be sponsored, but if the firm is saying your job will be here when you come back, that in of itself is pretty good too. So I think as long as that comes across from the rec letters or somewhere in the file, that's great. I want to wish this candidate the best of luck. Very interesting profile. We'll see how it all turns out. Let's move on, though, and talk about wiretaps candidate number two. So our second candidate this week has eight schools on the target list and wants to start school next fall. So they're in the throes of preparing round two and possibly round three applications. They've got Cornell, Duke, Harvard, Michigan, Kellogg, Wharton, Darden and Yale on the list. They have been working in consulting. They would love to work in consulting after business school as well. They've got Carney, Bain, BCG, Deloitte and McKinsey on their target list. Their GPA is a 3.37. They've got five years of work experience located in Virginia and would like to stay on the East Coast if possible, after business school. Their GRE is a 317, which is a bit low, and we'll talk more about that. This is a 29 year old female. Very interesting story in that. This person was born and raised in Pakistan. She attended college in the US and now is a US citizen. Had a low kind of GPA to start her college career due to homesickness and some culture shock, but a really strong upward trend in those last two years with a lot of dean's list and things like that. Double majored in Business and English with a concentration in literature. So there we go. Kind of well rounded, right? And has been doing a lot of work in CPG, kind of marketing analytics, does volunteer work as well, which we can get into. This person's participating in Forte's MBA launch program. So really helpful program for women who are trying to get into business school. She's going to take the test again. She has a low GRE quant, which is a one, I guess she says 155. And she's nervous about this. She's tried to raise it. She's been gradually gaining ground, but she's got to take the test again. And she's looking to pivot into consulting from this marketing analytics role. Her thought is she'll apply to these kind of schools on the list in round two and then maybe pivot to more like top 25 schools in round Three if it doesn't work out. But she was looking for our advice, and I did want to mention one last thing she said, thank you, Alex. And Graham, for everything you do for us. Fingers crossed that my entry gets selected. She says, I love The Wiretaps podcast and I listen to it on my way to the gym and back. So there you go. Alex, what do you make of this candidacy?
• 22:17
  Speaker B: Well, that's how you get selected, right? Well, at least that's one way to get selected. Right. Say nice things about us. But no, I think this candidate she comes across being a really nice individual, looks like they've done really well at work, actually, and so forth. They were laid off at one point from their first job because the firm that they were at was acquired and then sort of asset stripped or gutted or whatever, and they were able to land another job quite quickly, I think. Pivoted Industries with a big raise. They showed some pretty good resilience there, I think, and that's really good. Their extracurriculars are good and so forth. Their personal background sounds very interesting coming from Pakistan and sort of navigating a whole new sort of culture and stuff and obviously went through some culture shock before. She really sort of hit the ground running later in their academics. But this is the area that's going to raise most concern, right, the combination of the GRE and the GPA. So what is she doing about this? She's done MBA math, I think, or she's planning to do it well, yes, she's planning to do it after apps are submitted, so certainly stepping that up a little bit will be good. Also, she's really working hard at trying to push this GRE score up, so she's going to have taken the test five times, I think, to sort of show that persistence and stuff, that this is really important. If she can really sort of push that GRE so that the Quant score hits that 160 threshold, I think that'll be really helpful and sort of get the overall score up and above that 320 threshold. That still might not be enough for some of these top schools, for sure, but that's sort of what she's really going to be hopefully pushing for. If she's able to shore up that Quant, Graham, that's going to make a big impact on her profile. I think your point that you mentioned before we came on air is very important. If she's not successful at the program she has targeted in Round two, she will then sort of go the next tier down and start applying in Round three. She should add one or two of those programs right into Round two, and the reason for that is that drop off between round two and Round three in terms of admissions possibility, is quite steep. Most schools try to fill their programs through their first and second rounds and we'll use round three just to cherry pick a couple of candidates that might fit to help round out the class profile and stuff. So I think that's an important thing for them to think about.
• 25:31
  Speaker A: Gray yeah, one thing that kind of I'm worried about is we have eight schools on the target list and these are all the kind of top schools in her group. So she's saying she's going to apply to all these. If I were her, I would apply to four or five of them or something in the second round, and I would throw in, like you say, another school or two that's maybe a little bit further afield in terms of know, she mentioned she's in Virginia. She wants to stay on the East Coast. I mean, Georgetown came to mind immediately for me, wants to work in consulting. There are a lot of opportunities in the DC area for that. So I was thinking about Georgetown. I was also she's got Duke on the know. Maybe a UNC would be a nice fit, too. So I think there are some options for her that are just a little bit further down.
• 26:14
  Speaker B: What about our sponsor, Grant?
• 26:16
  Speaker A: Yeah, emory as well. That's a good point. Yeah. But I think there are great schools that are in the sort of top 20 that could be a good fit and that would allow her to hedge and not have to wait until the final round like you're saying, because that could be dangerous. I do think that if she can add some points to the quant and as you say, get up above 320 on the GRE, she'll still be below average for some of these programs. But I think people are going to be rooting for her. I mean, I found just the way that she wrote about her experience to be really compelling. And like you say, there's just some kind of a vibe that I was getting. This is a really nice person, and it's not just because she said she liked the show. But I think no, I mean, I just really think that remember you were talking about how she got laid off and had to pivot and go find a new job? I mean, she not only got a new job, but she negotiated to get like a $20,000 salary increase over her prior.
• 27:08
  Speaker B: Yeah, I really like that.
• 27:10
  Speaker A: Yeah. So I think this is someone who could add a lot to a class and seems to have a good head on her shoulders in terms of her career plan. So I would say back off a little bit, apply to slightly fewer schools in round two and make some room to add one or two. I don't want to call them safeties because they're not really safeties, but know, having a broader range of programs on her list would be smart.
• 27:33
  Speaker B: It's those programs in the next tier, and we've listed them, but I'll just re thing it's the likes of Keenan, Flagler, McDonough, Goyzetta, and there's one or two others, but they're all in that sort of region. Those are I mean, Marshall would be in that. Tier too. But you probably don't want to be going off to California, Southern California, to end up on the East Coast. So getting the right school, that give you the right geographic sort of placement too.
• 28:03
  Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, obviously Indiana Cali comes to mind, know another great school. So anyway, there are a lot of really great programs and I just want to make sure she's really looking at them again. I think if she can boost the score, she'll be competitive at any number of these. But I wouldn't wait for round three. So in any event, I do want to thank her for sharing her profile and for tuning in on her way to and from the gym. I guess when she's working out, it's just we probably are not inspiring in terms of keeping pace. So I can understand that. Yeah, so thanks for picking her, Alex, and hopefully she'll keep us posted by adding a comment or two to this apply wire entry as her journey continues. But let's move on and talk about wiretaps candidate number three. So our final candidate this week also has eight schools on the list. I feel like, Alex, we picked a lot with a broad number of schools this week. So we've got Columbia, Dartmouth, Duke, Harvard, NYU, Chicago, UNC and Wharton. This person wants to start school in the fall. They've been working in commercial real estate with some stints in finance, brokerage and development verticals. They want to get into investment banking and private equity or asset management. So kind of shifting out of real estate and into sort of pure finance. They have a whole bunch of companies that they would consider a lot of the usual suspects like JPMorgan morgan, Stanley Carlisle Group, KKR, Goldman, et cetera. Their GPA is a 3.79 from undergrad. They have nine years of work experience. They're located in New York. And I should also mention they're currently finishing a Master's in real estate, I believe. They're doing that, I want to say at NYU, I can't now remember, but I'm pretty sure, and they have a 40 in that degree. This person was born and raised in Peru. They have dual citizenship with the US. They did go to high school and college in the United States where they studied finance at a Big Ten school, which is a top 50 kind of national program, top 25 in undergrad business. They worked at Fannie Mae. Then they launched a real estate investment platform. They have done a lot in real estate, basically, and then headed into this program that they're completing now. And so I wanted to ask you, Alex, what sort of made you pick this person? I think it seems like an interesting kind of personal background because they have this but, you know, older. They're currently doing a master's degree. What's your take on this candidacy? And they don't have a test score yet, it looks like, right. So what's the deal?
• 30:32
  Speaker B: I mean, I think they're still working. Graham and doing that Master's degree part time.
• 30:37
  Speaker A: I think you're right, yeah.
• 30:38
  Speaker B: Or at least that was my assumption. So if that's incorrect, then I apologize to the candidate for misreading. I mean, this candidate, as you say, they got nine years of experience, they've done quite a lot. So if you've got nine years of experience, you should have done quite a lot. But they seem to have sort of identified a pathway that's quite interesting. They've justified the different moves that they've made, and that's really important. Right, is the whys behind your decisions, know, whichever the three or four decisions they've made to really develop their portfolio of experience in real estate, which is effectively what they've done both in the United States, in Peru, as an entrepreneur, as someone working for Fannie Mae, but then someone working other businesses and so forth. So that all looks, I would say, pretty strong. Their GPA, three seven, nine out of top 50 nationally ranked US program. That sounds pretty good. Yeah, that's fine to me. So I imagine when they take their GRE, which is what they're planning to take, I would hope to see that in the mid three hundred and twenty s, to sort of reflect again, that decent GPA. Having a background from Peru, I think, sort of helps. It adds an additional dimension to the profile, really, again, sort of justifying why now. I mean, you made this quick thought before we came on air that they're currently in a Master's program. Now they want to do an MBA. Why are they doing it in that order? Are they just collecting degrees? So they've really got to justify why MBA, why now, based on what they're currently doing. And that pathway going forward, which I think best probably, is to be targeting investment banking that would probably be more palatable to the top programs, and then find a pathway back into sort of real estate on the private equity side. I think that's what they're looking at doing. I think if they can get their story sort of down pat and really cogent and really make it all make sense, get a decent GRE, that reflects, again, their undergraduate record, they've got a 40 in this Master's program they're doing now. So from a number standpoint, I expect to see them competing with the top candidates at these programs. And then, yeah, they'll be applying in round two. They've got a good mix of schools that they're targeting from two or three different tiers, lots of finance focus. So all that makes sense to me.
• 33:31
  Speaker A: Graham yeah, no, I like this candidate. I did misspeak earlier, I was talking about where they're going to get this current real estate, and they don't say they just say it's in New York City, so it's not necessarily to NYU. So they're doing some kind of a Master's I do agree with you. I think it's part time. They're probably working at the same time. I guess for me, one of the things I found particularly compelling is this idea that in the long run, they want to raise an investment fund focused on Peru and Latin America, with a view to bringing foreign capital into those markets to improve what they describe as a very precarious housing situation in some of these countries. So I like that it comes full circle back to their roots, but also to their kind of real estate background. And so the only thing I was kind of noodling on is this person's got nine years of experience. By the time they graduate from business school, they're going to be pretty old. I mean, not compared to you and me, but old for business school graduating. And I think that I would like for them to identify some boutique investment banks, maybe ones that do some work in the real estate space. Because it may not be a slam dunk for this person to just walk out of whatever business school they attend and get the sort of typical MBA job at Goldman or something because of their age. And I think it might also be really interesting for them to have this angle on. Maybe it's an investment bank that does a lot of work with foreign investment or kind of Latin American based transactions or I don't know. But it'd be interesting for them to find a way to get specific because that will help me to believe their story and its feasibility and its specificity. Right. So these are things we would look for, particularly in an older candidate, to make sure they know what they're going to do. Maybe they've already had some informational, interviews with potential landing spots, all that stuff would help. But I agree. I think there's no reason that when they take the GRE, they're not going to get a good score. When you look at their background, it seems like they should be well positioned to be competitive on that test. So yeah, I really like this candidate, again, a little bit older, so there's some things they need to do to convince the admissions team that they know what they're doing and that they're going to be active and involved. They did mention that in this Master's that they're currently pursuing that they're active. Like they said, they're the magazine editor, they're a leader in a student investment fund. So yeah, seems like they're active, which is a good sign too.
• 35:51
  Speaker B: That was the only thing that sort of made me question whether they're actually doing it full or part time. So it's going to be quite hard balancing full time work, part time academics as well as being active. So hopefully they're managing that well. Your point that their goals are related to doing stuff back in Peru is really important because otherwise, what is it about their background that really helps them stand out? That's their way of making a high level impact in the long run as an alum, so I really like that. I thought you were going to identify this passion for architecture that they have.
• 36:31
  Speaker A: It did catch my eye, yeah.
• 36:33
  Speaker B: They have a project where they collected photographs of art deco, whatever that means, art deco stuff all around the world with 2000 plus entries. I know you're kind of a bit of a geek in that regard, Graham.
• 36:47
  Speaker A: I am, yeah.
• 36:48
  Speaker B: So I thought you would be all over it.
• 36:51
  Speaker A: Yeah, no, it is a nice I mean, it's interesting and it obviously fits really well with their interest in real estate and housing and all these things, so, yeah, no, this is an interesting candidate and I'm confident that at least one of the schools on their list is going to give them a chance again. They got to sit down and take the test, but no reason to think that won't go well. So I do want to thank them for sharing their background. They're really generous in terms of sheding a lot of light on the details that we typically look for and need to know to assess. So really great. Alex, thanks for picking out three super interesting candidates this week, as always. And yeah, we'll do it again next week. I should be back in France with any luck by then, so we'll do it next week.
• 37:28
  Speaker B: Very good. Best luck, everyone. Stay safety.