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Aliens at Roswell? Unpacking the Mysterious UFO Crash · Aliens? Yes! But Maybe No | UFOs, UAPs & Alien Mysteries

0:05
Josh: aliens yes but maybe no.
0:10
Josh: Hey guys, welcome to the show.
0:21
Josh: Aliens, yes, but maybe no, but maybe no.
0:27
Josh: I'm Travis, I'm Josh.
0:28
Josh: This is another worldly podcast, as ambiguous as our title.
0:33
Josh: Let's talk a little bit about last week.
0:34
Josh: So last week we talked about Bob Lazar.
0:36
Josh: Yes, right, that was kind of an eye opener for me.
0:39
Josh: I didn't know much about him.
0:40
Travis: Being able to sleep on a little bit change your perspective.
0:42
Josh: No, I don't know.
0:43
Josh: I don't mean I don't know.
0:44
Josh: I don't mean, I don't know, maybe not, I don't know, I don't know.
0:46
Josh: I don't remember what my perspective was.
0:48
Josh: I I'm still in the camp of aliens exist, but the culture around, like the community, is a little mixed for me.
0:59
Travis: But I do you made that very clear yeah, I'm sorry.
1:02
Josh: I called you guys a bunch of paranoid freaks in the last episode.
1:04
Josh: I'm still probably going to do sorry.
1:07
Josh: I called you guys a bunch of paranoid freaks in the last episode.
1:10
Josh: I'm still probably going to do that.
1:12
Josh: So apology redacted.
1:12
Josh: Suck it.
1:13
Josh: Paranoid freaks, that's great you be you.
1:15
Josh: So this week we're going to jump right in to another big piece of the alien.
1:21
Josh: Aliens exist, history, community conspiracy, what have you?
1:23
Travis: One of the biggest yeah, one of what have you?
1:24
Travis: One of the biggest, yeah, one of the biggest topics, one of the most well-known this is the big one.
1:29
Josh: This is the one that, if you don't know anything about aliens, you at least know about the Roswell incident.
1:33
Travis: Yep, right.
1:34
Travis: And if you don't, you've at least heard about the name Roswell.
1:38
Josh: Yeah, you know Roswell and Area 51.
1:40
Josh: Probably you can associate the two.
1:41
Travis: Lots of movie references.
1:42
Travis: Men in Black.
1:43
Josh: Sure, I wanted to watch Men in Black before we recorded the show, but I didn't have time.
1:47
Travis: Oh yeah.
1:48
Josh: That is a good one, but I think that would have like influenced my impression of Roswell for the show, and so I'm kind of glad that I didn't watch Men in Black as a, you know, as a fictional retelling of what this is as your yeah yeah it's, I mean it is I.
2:05
Josh: When I first saw men in black, I thought it was a documentary no, no, you didn't I did.
2:10
Josh: I thought it was a documentary.
2:11
Josh: I thought it was a documentary about aliens here on earth.
2:13
Josh: It's not.
2:15
Travis: I mean, I know that now well, the men in black is a potentially a real thing okay we'll do an episode on that someday, but there is tons.
2:24
Josh: They exist.
2:24
Josh: Do they have a neural geyser?
2:27
Travis: I don't think so.
2:28
Josh: That pen thing that erases your memory.
2:29
Travis: No, I doubt that.
2:31
Josh: Or do they?
2:32
Josh: There's a lot of you ever had lost time.
2:34
Travis: Josh, oh yeah, yeah, it's usually alcohol induced.
2:38
Travis: They have a lot of instances where aliens show up or that someone sees a spacecraft or something weird and then the next day or shortly after, men in black come and harass and try to dispel anything.
2:53
Travis: They're like did you see that?
2:54
Travis: And they're like, yeah, I did.
2:55
Travis: And then the men in black were like no, you didn't and you're not going to tell anyone about it.
3:00
Josh: But eyewitness accounts are so weird.
3:02
Josh: So we talked about last week my incident of being raided in my house because I was starting this podcast.
3:07
Josh: I wrote all the experiences I had down on a piece of paper and even then I was like, well, was it really a green hat that I saw?
3:14
Josh: Was it really black shorts and green spots on it?
3:18
Travis: So I didn't really get raided for starting a podcast.
3:20
Travis: No, we talked about this on the last episode but what if this is their first episode they listen to?
3:24
Travis: Well then, you made a mistake and then they, and then they think well, these guys are legit if you're if you're hearing this for the first time that I got rated hit.
3:33
Josh: Pause, go back and listen to the first episode, then come back and start this one up.
3:37
Josh: Okay, so I was rated at my house by four cops.
3:41
Josh: I wrote everything down because I'm I'm a weirdo and I know that memory is very subjective and it's a hard thing and it's very influenceable.
3:52
Josh: I don't know if that's a word, but if you have somebody that recounts the same memory that you have, if it's more funny or entertaining memory, you tend to remember it that way, as it happened, that way.
4:05
Travis: Yeah, I would imagine it depends on the mood you're in or what emotions you're feeling, or lots of things.
4:10
Josh: Memory is subjective to a lot of things.
4:12
Josh: Number one, though, is emotion.
4:13
Josh: Right, like, your memory is tied to emotion and smells.
4:18
Josh: I guess I was told in high school that, if you were studying for a test, the best way to remember all this information that you're like, maybe cramming for, is to smell an orange as you're studying, and then, right before you go and take a test, get an orange, crack it open.
4:36
Travis: Interesting.
4:36
Travis: I've never heard that.
4:38
Josh: Crack open an orange.
4:39
Travis: Yeah.
4:39
Josh: And then that smell will help.
4:41
Travis: I think you're talking about those chocolate oranges, those ones.
4:42
Travis: Yeah, you do have to crack those, smell will help.
4:43
Josh: I think you're talking about those chocolate oranges, those ones, yeah, you have you do have to crack those I don't know I do.
4:47
Josh: I open an orange pretty hard.
4:49
Josh: You just smash it on the table.
4:51
Josh: Right they come in foil no, that's candy.
4:54
Travis: You've been, you've been eating candy this whole time and you think you've been healthy.
4:58
Josh: I don't know what fruit is.
4:59
Josh: No, I've.
5:00
Josh: No, I've not been healthy man.
5:01
Josh: I make a lot of bad personal choices.
5:04
Josh: What we're going to do is we're going to have a little bit of story time where I'm going to read a story written by our famed researcher, jordan Infamous.
5:13
Josh: Yeah, she's infamous.
5:14
Josh: She makes a lot of other podcasters very scared because she is so good at what she does.
5:19
Josh: Yeah, so infamy.
5:20
Josh: Yeah, sure, yep, infamy.
5:21
Josh: And yeah, sure, yep, infamy.
5:24
Josh: And fame-y.
5:24
Josh: Fame-y yeah, that's a word.
5:25
Josh: Yeah, fame-y are both very intimidating.
5:28
Josh: So, dear listener, tuck in, relax, listen to the dulcet tones of my voice as I recount to you the beginning of the Roswell incident as compiled by our researcher Jordan.
5:42
Josh: Compiled by our researcher Jordan.
5:49
Josh: On June 14, 1947, rancher WW Mack Brazile and his son Vernon stumbled upon a strange crash while driving across their ranch land 80 miles northwest of Roswell, new Mexico.
5:54
Josh: Scattered across the gravel and sagebrush was a large area of wreckage composed of rubber strips, tinfoil, tough paper and sticks.
6:00
Josh: The metallic-looking fabric was lightweight and shredded.
6:01
Josh: Initially, mack left the debris where it.
6:02
Josh: The metallic-looking fabric was lightweight and shredded.
6:05
Josh: Initially, mack left the debris where it was, but later changed his mind and returned to the crash site.
6:09
Josh: Three days later, on July 7th, he drove to Roswell to deliver the mysterious materials to Sheriff George Wilcox.
6:15
Josh: Equally baffled, wilcox contacted Colonel Butch Blanchard, commander of the Roswell Army Airfield's 509th Composite Group.
6:24
Josh: Blanchard, uncertain about the nature of the wreckage, reached out to his superior, general Roger W Ramey, and dispatched Major Jesse Marcell, an intelligence officer, to investigate the site with Roswell and the sheriff.
6:35
Josh: Pieces of the wreckage included thin metal-like foil that was virtually indestructible, memory metal that would return to its original shape after being crumpled, and beams with hieroglyphic-like markings that resisted identification.
6:48
Josh: These materials were unlike the conventional aircraft or weather balloon components known at the time.
6:55
Josh: The metal-like substance could not be cut, burned or even permanently bent, suggesting a level of technological sophistication far beyond 1940s capabilities.
7:04
Josh: Subsequent lab tests, as inferred from testimonies and leaked documents, reveal that some components might have contained unknown elements or composites that further deepen the mystery.
7:14
Josh: The operation quickly expanded to involve more military experts and resources.
7:18
Josh: Colonel William Blanchard, commanding officer of the Roswell Army Airfield, took a particular interest in the debris.
7:24
Josh: He ordered the materials to be transferred to Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Ohio for further analysis.
7:30
Josh: Okay, so I think there's a lot to unpack here.
7:32
Josh: First off the Roswell Army Air Force Base further into our dossier is going to be referred to RAAF, so we'll just set that out.
7:42
Josh: Raf, yeah, raf.
7:44
Josh: Another one is just talking about the material.
7:48
Josh: Maybe you know more about this than I do, but it crashed right, so what caused it to break apart?
7:54
Josh: If this thing is seemingly indestructible, that's a really good question.
7:59
Josh: Josh just made a wide open mouth face, like he didn't expect me to ask that question yeah, I didn't.
8:06
Travis: Uh, I wasn't prepared, I I don't know.
8:09
Travis: Maybe at certain levels or certain speeds or something like that, maybe there's an internal blow up if they're using gravity so that that was another thing.
8:19
Josh: It's like this spaceship came from somewhere else, right, where like hypothetically that's what we're saying their gravity might be different than here.
8:29
Josh: So once they entered earth's atmosphere, at like, they didn't have the correct propulsion to balance out what that gravity would do to their ship, right?
8:37
Josh: Does that make?
8:38
Josh: Does that make sense?
8:38
Josh: I'm not like a mathematician or a gravity scientist, but I know that things fall at a certain rate here.
8:45
Josh: Our earth gravity is pretty.
8:47
Josh: It's enough to sustain life, but it's also like there's a presence of it, like if you were to jump, you're going to get pulled right back down to earth.
8:56
Josh: That's why, like basketball players, vertical or their ability to jump high is so revered, right?
9:02
Josh: yeah and when you go on the moon you can just like jump and float for 15 feet or meters, which is even longer, who knows how long.
9:09
Josh: So maybe that played a part in in like the ship crashing, or it was like maybe an outside force like this base, this army base shot it down but that there's no records indicating that they had fired any sort of ballistic missile or had shot upon a craft.
9:28
Josh: It seemed like a surprise upon further reading of our dossier.
9:32
Josh: It seemed like a surprise to the Air Force base it landed on this ranch.
9:35
Travis: Well, yeah, I mean it took the farmer three days to come back.
9:39
Travis: So I mean, if they shot it down they would have gone right out.
9:41
Josh: Right, so nobody saw it.
9:43
Travis: Right.
9:44
Josh: And this farmer found this stuff and then there was a like a major that was sent out to investigate it Right, and he brought it home and with his kid Marcel I think is their name.
9:57
Josh: So he was a major, his kid became a doctor.
10:00
Josh: I didn't really do a lot of research on on kid but I'm sure you know, in our intervening breaks or whatever, I'll look that up, find out what it is he's.
10:08
Josh: He has a commercial breaks yeah, commercial breaks, yeah, where we do ad breaks for uh mooby or hymns yeah, sure, casper.
10:17
Travis: Yeah, oh man, I would love a new mattress I would.
10:20
Josh: I would too casper, if you're listening.
10:21
Josh: Yeah, I mean, maybe be great or uh great, or Bombas Socks.
10:26
Travis: Bombas.
10:26
Travis: I'm a sockman, I like socks, I love me some socks.
10:29
Josh: I do too, man.
10:30
Josh: I don't like not having my feet covered.
10:32
Travis: I don't either.
10:33
Travis: Yeah, so I think, going back to our last episode with Bob Lazar, he explained and I don't know if this is the same spacecraft that he's seen, but he was explaining that they were in control of gravity so this was in 1947.
10:45
Travis: This was well before bob lazar was even on this planet but he was working at a base where they had nine spaceships that they were reverse engineering yeah, but who knows, like in the intervening years, because bob lazar didn't.
10:58
Josh: So what if this?
10:58
Travis: was one of the spaceships, so they had the technology to well.
11:01
Travis: This was a change of the't.
11:03
Josh: I mean, just according to this, this wasn't a full spaceship, this was debris, this was just parts of a ship and I guess the material, if you were to crumple it up, it would reform.
11:14
Josh: They said spring back, but again, like when we're talking about memory, which makes you think that it's organic almost.
11:22
Josh: Yeah, like, yeah it has a memory If you push on your skin and it just kind of comes back yeah, kind of, but they said spring back.
11:28
Josh: I don't know, I wasn't there, I didn't see it, but there were pictures of this major with this tinfoil that's in our.
11:35
Josh: It looks like tinfoil in our dossier.
11:37
Travis: That was actually a picture of him posing in front of a tinfoil weather balloon.
11:42
Travis: That was a staged photo.
11:44
Travis: He was summoned to the airbase.
11:47
Josh: Major Jesse Marcel.
11:49
Travis: Yeah.
11:49
Travis: So what happened was on July 8th, the Roswell Daily Record published RAF captures flying saucer on ranch in Roswell.
11:59
Travis: The article announced that the intelligence officer of the 509th bombardment group of Roswell Army Airfield announced at noon today that the field has come into possession of a flying saucer.
12:10
Travis: And that was a big no-no.
12:14
Josh: Right, that was a big no-no.
12:16
Josh: Why was that a big no-no?
12:18
Josh: Is it okay to release military information to the public?
12:21
Josh: I don't think so I mean now I know so.
12:25
Josh: So later, when him and his son started talking about this because he had to sign, like basically what we know now as an NDA a nondisclosure agreement right when he was told he couldn't talk about the things that he saw, well, in the 70s, he decided fuck this, I saw something.
12:43
Josh: I feel like it's in the public's best interest to know this information.
12:47
Josh: I am going to talk about this.
12:49
Josh: We talked about whistleblowers last week with bob lazar, like that was a big.
12:52
Travis: Yeah, he's one of the the first whistleblowers, sure, and his son, who he showed that stuff is still active yep, today still active in the alien community.
13:01
Travis: No, he's, he's, he's dead now the son, yeah, oh yeah, he passed there, they, they passed, they both passed I thought I saw him recently in a documentary, maybe it was you could have seen him in the documentary video.
13:13
Josh: Lasts forever ah it's not true well, vhs doesn't, but digital does, as long as we have the internet, you know, and the cloud.
13:24
Josh: So him, without conferring to his elites his bosses, yeah, his direct supervisors, right yeah, direct reports.
13:34
Travis: He just says what it is.
13:36
Travis: This is a guy who knows things.
13:38
Travis: He's been in the military for a very long time.
13:40
Travis: He knows that it's not just aluminum and paper.
13:44
Travis: The article comes out, his superiors get pissed off and the public was just captivated by it.
13:51
Travis: But on july 9th the us war department issued a statement debunking the flying saucer.
13:57
Travis: So the next day there's a new article.
14:00
Travis: Yeah, that said, the debris was from a weather balloon, the roswell dispatch.
14:06
Travis: The morning headline read army debunks roswell flying disc as world simmers with excitement.
14:12
Travis: The roswell incident is one of the four ufo related accounts that appeared just on the front page on july 9th, the same day around the world.
14:20
Travis: So the other items carrizozo man sees flying disc.
14:24
Travis: Joe massey spots disc over roswell in an image of an unknown object in the sky over seattle, washington, with a caption that asks the question is this a flying disc?
14:33
Travis: Yeah, so july 9th was a hot day for flying discs, but on the same they also had a frisbee golf tournament that day it was wild.
14:41
Josh: on the same, they also had a Frisbee golf tournament that day.
14:43
Josh: It was wild.
14:45
Travis: On the same day, though, the military released in the Roswell dispatch that this wasn't a disc, this wasn't an alien UFO, this was a weather balloon, which, if I was the guy who found it, marcel yeah, if I was Marcel I would be pissed.
15:02
Josh: I mean, yeah, I would be mad too.
15:04
Josh: But that also calls into question like we're talking about memory, like is our memory really a fact or is it just what we experience?
15:12
Josh: Because he'd taken this stuff home and said he'd played with it with his kid and his kid had seen it, but that's the only documentation of this incident happening yeah, because it got scrubbed.
15:23
Travis: It got cleaned up by the government, maybe that's what I think.
15:26
Josh: Maybe it did, maybe it didn't, I don't know.
15:29
Josh: That's where I'm looking at it.
15:30
Josh: I'm trying to be 2024 to 1947.
15:34
Josh: Yeah, almost 75 years ago, but that being said let's just talk a little bit about what's going on in the world in 1947.
15:42
Josh: There was nothing world in 1947 what this was.
15:48
Josh: There was nothing.
15:48
Josh: This was it.
15:49
Josh: No, there's not.
15:49
Josh: We.
15:49
Josh: We had just finished a second world war that ended in 1945, so people were still reeling.
15:52
Josh: Not even all the soldiers have come home.
15:53
Josh: We're still trying to figure out the deaths and who's missing from world war ii.
15:57
Josh: Segregation is still a thing.
15:59
Josh: People are trying to figure out what our country is going to look like over the next decade, 50 years, 100 years or whatever.
16:07
Josh: So this is like America's comeuppance, where we're trying to prove everything to the world and we're also now a superpower, because we had just dropped a bomb, a nuclear bomb, on somebody.
16:18
Josh: So now we have nuclear technology.
16:20
Josh: So the world is looking to us.
16:21
Josh: This is two years after that had happened, three years.
16:24
Josh: 1944 is when we dropped the bomb.
16:26
Josh: 1945 is when the whole thing ended and we started sending people home.
16:30
Josh: Right, kind of Come at me, history buffs, you know.
16:33
Josh: Correct me if I'm wrong.
16:34
Josh: That's fine, I'll totally accept it.
16:35
Josh: It's history.
16:36
Josh: There's nothing to refute.
16:38
Travis: There's probably still people out there.
16:46
Josh: Well, that's another thing.
16:46
Josh: Other thing is like there were, uh, supposedly japanese people that landed on an island and still thought the war was being fought, but not, not now.
16:51
Travis: I mean, this was you know 20, but yeah, after 20, 30 years after, they still thought it was happening.
16:56
Travis: Yeah, they were in hiding, yeah, yeah and still pretty hostile.
16:59
Josh: That's the rumor.
17:00
Josh: I don't.
17:01
Josh: Anyway, that's for a different show.
17:03
Josh: Yes, so that's where we're at.
17:05
Josh: It's 1947.
17:06
Josh: America has just barely, but by the grace of technology, defeated Nazism, fascism right, or has played a huge role in contributing to the defeat of Nazism, fascism for well until now, until our most recent time, when we're now dealing with it again.
17:26
Travis: It was also Legos started making plastic toys.
17:30
Josh: Lego.
17:30
Travis: And the Tonka trucks came out so big year, there we go.
17:35
Josh: Big year, big year.
17:36
Josh: Lego is now a thing and uh, tonka trucks cool, um, but segregation was still in effect.
17:42
Josh: Women still couldn't vote.
17:43
Josh: Women's lib has hadn't happened yet.
17:45
Josh: That all happens in the 60s, no, sorry.
17:49
Josh: Uh, women were able to vote in, like the.
17:51
Josh: I can't remember the amendment they've been able to vote, but it's still a recent thing.
17:55
Travis: It was.
17:55
Travis: It passed in Congress in 1919.
17:58
Josh: 1990.
17:59
Josh: So it's still pretty recent right that women can vote, which is wild.
18:03
Travis: They could vote, but socially they were oppressed.
18:05
Josh: Oh yeah, definitely.
18:06
Josh: I mean, it was still required that they work at home, and it was the man's job to bring home the bacon, as it were.
18:12
Josh: Right, so that's where we find ourselves in 1947.
18:15
Josh: And people were reeling from a world war and firing women baseball players.
18:20
Travis: And the boomers were being created.
18:22
Josh: And boomers were being created.
18:24
Josh: Yeah, because people were so excited they just wanted to go home and fuck.
18:27
Josh: So they went home and they fucked and they created boomers the worst generation ever.
18:32
Josh: That's where we're at.
18:34
Josh: This is also like 1947.
18:36
Josh: So in 1953, I believe it was MK Ultra started.
18:41
Josh: That's when they were experimenting with LSD and psychotropics, trying to find a mind control drug.
18:48
Travis: Well, this is also just 40 years after the airplane was invented.
18:52
Josh: Which is wild?
18:53
Travis: Yeah.
18:54
Josh: So still early on?
18:55
Josh: Yeah, so still early on.
18:55
Josh: So, like I am a little skeptical with personal accounts of what happened at this time because it was such a wild time and a lot of these accounts weren't given until years after, the military who was in charge of the 509th.
19:12
Travis: He's a major, he's like a upper mid management, yeah, and he knows his stuff.
19:15
Travis: He knows the difference between a weather balloon, aluminum, and something that is non-existent in the technological age that they were in in the 40s.
19:34
Travis: I mean, they really didn't have anything.
19:36
Josh: The cell phone was invented in 1947.
19:39
Josh: He also was in a.
19:40
Josh: Oh, that's wild.
19:41
Travis: Yeah, but it wasn't sold to public till 1983.
19:44
Josh: Okay.
19:44
Josh: So not to discredit this guy, but he's also.
19:46
Josh: He's a major in the army.
19:48
Josh: He's not a scientist.
19:48
Josh: There are things that he could see at that time that maybe he just doesn't understand and doesn't have access to, like he could look at.
19:57
Josh: I don't know.
19:59
Josh: There are things about his account that I am a little skeptical of.
20:05
Travis: So this is what the Roswell military reported.
20:09
Josh: Their official.
20:09
Travis: Their official.
20:10
Travis: It's a 231 page publication claiming that the debris was part of Project Mogul, a classified program involving high altitude balloons designed to monitor Soviet nuclear tests.
20:20
Travis: The secrecy around this project contributed to the confusion and speculation about everything.
20:26
Travis: People were torn.
20:28
Travis: It was very big news all over the world, or all over the United States, they had been testing the weather balloons attached to aircrafts with dummies inside over parts of Arizona, Nevada and New Mexico.
20:38
Travis: So, according to the report, the conclusions of additional research are Air Force activities which occurred over a period of many years have been consolidated and are now represented to have occurred in two or three days in July 1947.
20:52
Travis: Aliens observed in the New Mexico desert were probably anthropomorphic test dummies that were carried aloft by US Air Force high-altitude balloons for scientific research.
21:03
Travis: That seems weird.
21:04
Travis: They just put anthropomorphic dummies.
21:06
Josh: Well, they did that.
21:07
Josh: Yeah, they did that with when they were testing the nuclear bomb.
21:10
Josh: They would put dummies inside houses as like a facsimile of people being in there.
21:16
Travis: And they just put dummies in the Uh-huh.
21:18
Travis: They would put dummies in these houses.
21:19
Travis: They put dummies everywhere.
21:21
Josh: I mean they did, for it's a good year for dummy.
21:23
Travis: They did the dummy business.
21:25
Josh: Yeah, it was a pretty good year for the dummy business.
21:27
Josh: But yeah, they would put dummies in these houses just to represent people that were in there right before they dropped the bomb, because they had no idea what, what I was going to do.
21:35
Travis: Yeah, so the unusual military activities in new mexico desert were high altitude research balloon launch and recovery operations.
21:42
Travis: The reports of military units that always seem to arrive shortly after the crash of the flying saucer to retrieve the saucer and crew were actually accurate descriptions of air force personnel engaged in anthropomorphic dummy recovery operations.
21:55
Travis: So they're saying the men in black that showed up were just low level dummy retrievers.
22:02
Josh: Who knows?
22:02
Josh: This is all again subject to a person's testimony.
22:07
Travis: Well, this is the government's testimony.
22:09
Josh: Well, this is their report.
22:10
Josh: This is what they're putting on top of whatever else anybody's saying.
22:14
Travis: Yeah, they're trying to change the narrative.
22:15
Travis: It seems like you guys are saying it's this, we think it's this this.
22:23
Travis: Well, we don't think that this is actually what happened, because, also at the time, because you were saying 1947, we're now a superpower.
22:27
Travis: We just won a war.
22:28
Travis: People trust the government a lot so they could say whatever they want and they'd be believed sure, but they could also be saying the truth and people would believe them.
22:39
Travis: Yeah, they could.
22:41
Josh: Yeah.
22:41
Travis: I just I don't, I don't agree.
22:43
Travis: Okay, I think this is the real deal.
22:45
Travis: Okay, Claims of bodies at the Roswell Army Airfield Hospital were likely a combination of two separate incidences In 1956, the KC-97 aircraft accident in which 11 Air Force members lost their lives, and in 1959, a manned balloon mishap in which two Air Force pilots were injured.
23:05
Travis: This report is based on thoroughly documented research supported by official records, technical reports, film footage, photographs and interviews with individuals who were involved in these events.
23:16
Josh: There was film footage.
23:18
Travis: That's what it says in the statement.
23:20
Travis: This was just like quick spark notes of the 231 page.
23:24
Josh: That's what I would like to see.
23:25
Josh: I would like to have seen what Major Marcel saw as he was messing with this.
23:31
Josh: I would have hoped that they would have sent a videographer or somebody with a camera to film this and if that's the case, that film footage unless it got burned up, depending on what kind of film they were using they're using like nitrate.
23:46
Josh: There's a lot of film back then was composed of.
23:49
Josh: Then it could have easily burned up.
23:51
Josh: But that would also fit into the narrative that everything is lost.
23:56
Travis: All you have is like my personal accounting of it yeah, I mean film would always be really good, yeah, but I mean sadly we don't, you know, I mean a lot of people back then didn't have cameras no, but the government had access to cameras yeah and that's what I'm saying.
24:13
Josh: It's like if this thing, the government would have had a film of it happening so they could document it and research it for years past.
24:24
Josh: Because if nothing else, the government is going to be, very thorough, and that's the thing.
24:29
Josh: It's like release the butthole cat.
24:31
Josh: I want to see this film footage.
24:33
Travis: Is that a cat's reference?
24:34
Josh: It's a cat's reference.
24:34
Josh: That's good.
24:35
Travis: Yeah, when making Cats the first release, they had the cat's reference.
24:37
Travis: That was good.
24:37
Josh: Yeah, when making cats the first release, they had the cat's buttholes uh, yeah, somebody had digitally added buttholes to it and the biggest feedback was uh, those cats have buttholes.
24:47
Josh: You guys know that the cats have buttholes.
24:48
Josh: It's kind of weird that they do so.
24:51
Josh: That was the overwhelming feedback they got from this test screening and they're like, yeah, no, you're right, we shouldn't have had buttholes on these cats.
24:59
Josh: This is kind of offensive.
25:01
Josh: So they took it out.
25:02
Josh: But there is a cut out there of these cats with their buttholes and I say release the butthole cat, just like I'm saying release the cut of these guys fucking with this material that they found out in the desert.
25:13
Josh: I just want to.
25:13
Josh: I want to see what that looks like.
25:15
Josh: I want want to see if it bounces back.
25:17
Travis: Yeah, and I don't think they will release it.
25:19
Travis: I think it's deep classified.
25:22
Josh: I don't know.
25:23
Josh: I think that if it existed, I think that it would be released now.
25:27
Travis: Unless it's part of national security or it's gone.
25:30
Travis: I find it honorable and very patriotic that you believe the government.
25:36
Josh: I don't believe the government, but the government is going to document this kind of stuff versus a person who is documenting a personal account.
25:44
Travis: But this isn't the government, this is the military.
25:46
Josh: I'm not a government shill and I I just haven't seen.
25:48
Josh: Like I said, I'm a baby, so I'm approaching this.
25:51
Josh: I'm skeptical of so many things in my regular life.
25:56
Josh: That's going to carry over into my podcasting life.
26:03
Josh: It's just what a skeptical in my personal life, yeah what are you skeptical, like penis size being what people think it's required to be?
26:07
Travis: I'm skeptical of that what's it required to be?
26:09
Travis: I don't know.
26:11
Josh: I need to know like, uh like 10 inches.
26:14
Josh: That's sad yeah.
26:16
Travis: Do you ever feel paranoid in your daily life?
26:20
Josh: Uh, no, I, I no.
26:21
Josh: Um, I mean, sometimes after I watch a movie, like well, yeah, like it follows, or something like that, and you think somebody's following you, sure, but that's just.
26:30
Josh: Uh, that's just the director doing their job normal stuff and just being like a human being living on this planet.
26:36
Josh: Like I'm more afraid of human beings.
26:38
Josh: I think aliens are terrifying, I will grant you that.
26:43
Josh: But I have a regular low level anxiety about humans more than I have a high level fear of aliens, if that makes sense.
26:52
Travis: Yeah.
26:53
Josh: I think about aliens and my fear of aliens very rarely, but when I think about it I'm like God.
26:59
Josh: They're fucking terrifying.
27:00
Josh: We don't know anything about them.
27:01
Josh: Their physiology is different than ours.
27:03
Josh: Their anatomy is going to be wild.
27:06
Josh: It is weird the way we evolved here to be on two legs versus four legs or one leg or whatever, is wild and it's very specific to our planet.
27:16
Josh: Things that happen here are all an evolutionarily thing specific to Earth.
27:22
Josh: If you go to another planet, who knows what the criteria was for evolution there?
27:27
Josh: Who knows what the circumstances were that led to whatever the highest being on that planet is and what allowed them to travel across the cosmos to see our dumb, primitive, barbarian planet?
27:37
Travis: What's weird is because we have documented tons of planets around the universe that are in safe zones, where it shows what they call the Goldilocks zone.
27:49
Travis: Yes, the Goldilocks zone where.
27:51
Josh: Everything's perfect.
27:52
Josh: Everything's perfect, everything's just right.
27:53
Travis: But does that mean that they're at the same level or further or less on the evolution than we are?
27:59
Travis: Are they going to look the same because they have the same similar planets in the same zones, with the same?
28:05
Josh: Exactly.
28:06
Travis: So this makes me think that.
28:07
Josh: That could be a planet that is occupied by things that look like squid right, which is like a Stephen Hawking thing.
28:14
Josh: He thinks that if humans die, squid or octopus are going to be the next dominant species.
28:20
Josh: It's wild, but they're very smart.
28:24
Josh: They just need to live in water.
28:26
Josh: So it's like that's another evolutionary movement.
28:30
Josh: You know, like everything here started in water and then moved to land.
28:35
Travis: Or aliens were a big test and aliens brought us here Right, and they're just observing us, right.
28:42
Josh: Not to get theological, but that's like that could be what people refer to as God, like these aliens that brought life here and try to figure it out Like we have no idea.
28:51
Josh: This is what keeps me awake at night no idea why we're here, what we're doing, doing here, what the fuck it is we're supposed to do, and that's why my biggest push right now is to get ai to be uh, not service, and I don't want to say like subservient to humans, but I would like very much for ai to take on some of these roles that we're doing, like building work roles, work like backbreaking work, roles, things that we're doing like building work roles, work like backbreaking work roles, things that we can replace more easily.
29:19
Josh: We can replace a robot's part much better and more easily than we can replace a human's part, and I think that humans were never meant to live this life of like stress and toil.
29:31
Josh: I think that we should be exploring the arts and what it actually means to be humans, and we can have robots build houses and deliver beer, you know, or soda or whatever chips or whatever it is, or, you know, run trucks from one end of the country to another, or, have you know, automated trucks run from one country to the other, and I think people I don't know You're talking about WALL-E.
29:54
Josh: I guess in a sense it's kind of like wally, but I I don't really appreciate that lazy aspect of wally, that like, if we let ai take over, that's what's going to happen to humans, because I don't think we would lose our creativity yeah, and I don't think that would happen.
30:10
Josh: There are a lot of lazy people, but I don't think there's enough to spoil the bunch right.
30:14
Josh: Like there are so many creative people out there, I mean, look at, look at us.
30:17
Josh: We're here doing this.
30:18
Travis: There's a natural urge and majority of people to create.
30:23
Josh: To create Like be storytellers.
30:25
Josh: We are naturally inclined to storytelling.
30:28
Travis: And are humans the only animals that have that urge?
30:31
Josh: you think I don't know, but I mean elephants have a memory.
30:34
Travis: They have a memory they can create.
30:36
Travis: They can have a memory.
30:36
Travis: They have a memory they can create, they can.
30:38
Josh: it's more taught than well.
30:39
Josh: So same with us, like all of our behaviors are taught.
30:41
Josh: Yeah, there have been studies with with apes they will watch somebody solve a puzzle and they can do it much faster because they're just doing it like it's rote behavior, like, okay, if I hit this, if I do that.
30:55
Josh: And then they test the same with like three-year-old humans, which they say is about the same intelligence and humans will make mistakes, but that's because they're learning what it is that's right and wrong.
31:08
Josh: It is, uh, us wanting to follow who's in charge and learning from the behaviors that they've learned that have kind of led to our evolution, to being where we are now.
31:19
Travis: Yeah, I tell my kids often.
31:21
Travis: I taught you how to use a spoon.
31:24
Travis: You listen to me?
31:25
Travis: Yeah, and it's true.
31:26
Travis: They didn't know how to use a spoon until I put it in their hand.
31:29
Travis: Yeah, and they did they used it wrong?
31:31
Travis: Or a fork they probably?
31:32
Travis: Tried to comb their hair with it.
31:33
Travis: Yeah, it comb their hair with it.
31:39
Josh: Yeah, it was a dinglehopper, dinglehopper.
31:40
Josh: Yeah, I almost said doodad.
31:40
Travis: Same thing so this is your favorite part witness statements yeah and deathbed concessions okay, yeah, let's get into it so major jesse marcel I don't know if I'm saying that name correct- I don't either.
31:53
Josh: there was, uh, marcel, and then there was brazel spelled b-R-A-Z-E-L.
31:58
Josh: I didn't think that they pronounced their name as the country Brazil, so I said Brazil.
32:05
Travis: Major Marcel brought some of the wreckage back home, like you mentioned, and when he was showing his son the thin metal they discovered that they could crumple it up and it would bounce back into shape.
32:15
Travis: I think I said spring back it up and it would bounce back into shape.
32:20
Travis: I think I said spring back.
32:21
Travis: But according to jesse, a marcel major marcel's son, major jesse marcel senior and his family were reassigned to roswell army airfield, raf, new mexico, in the mid-1940s.
32:29
Travis: It was during the assignment in july 1947 that an unidentified flying object, a ufo, crashed on a local ranch outside RAF, prompting the RAF base commander to deploy Major Marcel to investigate the wreckage, with a fellow Army counterintelligence agent First on the crash scene.
32:48
Travis: Major Marcel loaded some of this unknown wreckage into his vehicle and drove it home to show Jesse Jr in the middle of the night.
32:56
Josh: He became a PC candidate.
32:57
Travis: I don't know what field of study, but so young, jesse Marcel Jr, age 10, along with his father, attempted to identify the wreckage but could not make sense of the advanced, state-of-the-art material they had handled.
33:09
Josh: Yeah, that's what we were talking about earlier.
33:11
Josh: Is them not really having an understanding of what it is they're looking at?
33:15
Josh: And they assumed later, when pressed, it had to be not from this world.
33:21
Josh: But I think that if they were to have seen Tupperware or plastic or something like that, they would have been equally flummoxed.
33:28
Travis: They made it sound as though it was aluminum foil on a weather balloon.
33:30
Travis: Aluminum foil was so prominent in the household.
33:31
Travis: These guys have seen aluminum foil a lot.
33:32
Travis: Well, not.
33:32
Travis: Well, let's look at when aluminum foil was so prominent in the household.
33:36
Josh: These guys have seen aluminum foil a lot Well, not well, let's look at when aluminum foil was invented, because 1903.
33:44
Josh: But that doesn't mean that it was accessible to everybody.
33:46
Josh: Aluminum foil, tupperware, that kind of thing was not for everybody.
33:51
Josh: And then you forget that we had a Great Depression where nobody could afford anything and aluminum foil was.
33:55
Josh: Just because it was invented then does not mean that it was accessible to everybody.
33:58
Josh: It was just an invention and invention.
34:01
Josh: Sometimes when they're looking at practicality and what they're going to use aluminum foil for, it is not ever immediately seen what the practical uses are so aluminum foil was being used for candy wrappers in 1913.
34:18
Travis: Chewing gum lifesavers.
34:21
Travis: It was also used for other purposes, like identifying racing pigeons with foil leg bands.
34:27
Josh: Yeah, sure, but it was still niche.
34:29
Travis: Aluminum foil became a popular substitute for tin foil in the following decades because it was cheaper, more durable and more efficient.
34:35
Travis: During wartime, aluminum foil became the standard for food packaging, and after world war ii it completely replaced tin foil.
34:42
Travis: In the late 1920s aluminum foil was marketed for household use and in 1938 the first heat sealable foil was developed okay, so it's still like it's practical use is brand new here, right?
34:56
Josh: They said after the war, this is right after the war after the war it completely replaced tinfoil.
35:01
Josh: Right, but that's still.
35:03
Josh: It doesn't say a year like after the war could have been fifties, sixties, but this guy's had gum, so he's.
35:11
Travis: he's crumpled his thing with gum and he's thrown it on the ground.
35:15
Josh: It doesn't reshape and he's thrown on the ground.
35:16
Josh: It doesn't reshape.
35:17
Josh: I'm not throwing it out, I'm just saying like if we could think about this critically we don't really necessarily know what he saw.
35:24
Josh: He could have said it bounced back, but he could have just been smoothing it back out, right?
35:31
Travis: Yeah, possibly, I don't know.
35:33
Travis: No, you're right, it could have been.
35:36
Travis: We don't know.
35:37
Travis: No, you're right it could have been.
35:37
Josh: We don't know.
35:38
Josh: I want to go back to what I said at the beginning of the show.
35:40
Josh: Is he found this debris out in the middle of the desert and it was destroyed Like okay, so let's assume, let's ask the bigger question here.
35:48
Josh: Let's assume that he did found this and everything lines up.
35:52
Josh: The material springs back.
35:54
Josh: What was it that destroyed that ship?
35:58
Josh: Material springs back.
35:59
Josh: What?
35:59
Josh: What was it that destroyed that ship?
36:00
Josh: What was it that caused it to just be debris out in the middle of his rant?
36:02
Josh: This ranch that this major went out to investigate yeah, I don't know.
36:05
Josh: There's been debris and did this rancher throughout the year.
36:09
Josh: This rancher, save some of this material, because I, if it were me, that's exactly what I would do.
36:13
Josh: I would hold on to some of that.
36:15
Josh: I'd be like what the well, what the fuck is this shit?
36:17
Travis: I mean there's been that kind of metal has been talked about over and over and over again, has been found multiple times.
36:24
Travis: There's people in the UFO community that have debris Like there's, just I mean it is out there.
36:31
Travis: It's not common, but it's more common than you would think.
36:35
Josh: So then, what is it?
36:36
Josh: I know that there's probably a wider worldwide community, but this seems something so specific to the United States.
36:45
Travis: No, it's not Well.
36:45
Josh: to me it does Like the Roswell incident.
36:48
Josh: All these things that we've been talking about so far are very US centric.
36:53
Travis: Yes, bob Lazar and Roswell are Right.
36:57
Travis: There have been incidents all around the world and a lot of governments actually document them and they are public knowledge.
37:05
Travis: The US is one of the only countries that are hiding it.
37:10
Travis: Yeah, I mean, they have huge task force, they have huge agencies, all these other countries, all these other countries are saying they are real, but a lot of this information gets pushed aside or censored.
37:22
Travis: And the United States is hiding all this stuff, most likely to prevent panic, because they don't think we're ready.
37:29
Josh: The United States doesn't think we're ready, correct?
37:31
Josh: But all these other should be all these other governments are like yes, our people are ready for it.
37:37
Travis: Yeah, If anything ready for it?
37:38
Travis: Yeah, If anything, I think it would help.
37:40
Josh: So are we Wally then?
37:43
Travis: No no we're not.
37:44
Josh: We're just not ready and we just want to sip our big gulps and drive around in our motorized I mean it sounds great Motorized chairs.
37:51
Travis: It sounds great for like a week Not even a week I'd get.
37:55
Josh: Well, that's why I don't really believe the WALL-E future, because there's so many, there's a certain population that would love that, that would just love to drink big gulps and drive around in a scooter, and I think that's also totally fine.
38:08
Josh: That is your choice as a human being.
38:12
Josh: Good for you, good for you, good for you.
38:14
Josh: I would love it, though, if humans didn't have to stress out and worry about building a house or selling this or doing that, and we just you just want us to be provided for and then that we can just.
38:28
Josh: We have enough money to.
38:29
Josh: There's enough money in the world to provide for.
38:32
Travis: I don't think that our world could accomplish that unless we were able to bind together as humans of earth, and I think the only way that will happen is if aliens are able to present themselves and we can come together as human culture.
38:48
Josh: Yeah and all of us are now the same I agree and I love that idea.
38:53
Josh: I love that idea of like somebody coming here and that's kind of what is.
38:57
Josh: That would be exciting, that's like what people would refer to as like the second coming.
39:02
Josh: I'm not a religious person at all but you know, I grew up in a church that believed the second coming was coming.
39:09
Josh: So maybe that's a little bit ingrained and I just want that to happen to like elevate humanity to its most.
39:17
Josh: And I don't think Next level, and I don't think the next level and I don't think we are capable of hitting that next level.
39:22
Josh: We are here toiling in the mud and the muck and we're fighting with each other and it's getting pretty, pretty bad here I, yes, it is, and I think, from what I remember, the second coming is supposed to happen when things get really bad.
39:37
Josh: Yeah well, things are getting really bad they are.
39:40
Travis: So our researcher, jordan, was telling me that there's been a whole bunch of uap sightings in again what's a uap?
39:49
Travis: unidentified aerial phenomenon got it when trump was shot at.
39:54
Travis: They have really really good cameras and they're going frame by frame trying to track these bullets, but they're seeing all these other things in the background uaps and so they're starting to realize.
40:06
Travis: They start going and looking at other footage from all these other political videos, slowing them down, going frame by frame and they're seeing these things that are just there for a frame or two and they're not bullets this is wild.
40:17
Josh: I'm not.
40:18
Josh: I'm not prepared mentally for this bit of information so they are actually watching.
40:23
Josh: Yeah, I think they are constantly watching us, and when things get bad enough, they'll be like, okay, okay that's the alien I believe in is that they're benevolent observers who have stepped in when humanity has needed them or has needed something the most.
40:40
Josh: Yes, they've helped elevate and you know, maybe, maybe that will happen.
40:46
Travis: I don't know if that's fringe or not, but yeah, I mean one of the defense ministers said that they are here, we're in contact with them.
40:54
Travis: They don't want us to know, they don't want the mass to know because that would ruin what they have going on, but they will not come into full contact with us until we are ready and we are peaceful.
41:05
Travis: So what followed became history.
41:08
Travis: The US Army Air Corps issued a press release on July 8th 1947, that the flying saucer had been recovered.
41:13
Travis: This unprecedented news release generated such a dramatic response from the nation that the US Army Corps retracted the statement and issued a press release the following day that a weather balloon had been recovered.
41:26
Travis: So Major Marcel Sr, along with all involved in the recovery, were ordered to sign an NDA statement and never speak of the incident again until the 70s is when Marcel Sr came out and Jesse Jr jr decided to speak publicly to end what they perceived as a military cover-up and a grave injustice to the american people.
41:45
Travis: So, working with stanton friedman, kevin randall, don schmidt and steven bassett, dr marcel gave hundreds.
41:54
Travis: This is this junior gave hundreds of lectures, radio and television interviews and published a 2007 book entitled the Roswell Legacy, which attested to what he and his father had witnessed that night at Roswell in July 1947.
42:07
Travis: Until their deaths, both Jesse Sr and Jesse Jr maintained what they had witnessed and handled that night and Roswell was not of this earth.
42:16
Josh: Okay, so following that one of this earth?
42:18
Josh: Okay, though, following that, one of the most significant details to emerge from the discussion was the fact that Marcel firmly denied having seen alien corpses in the wreckage.
42:26
Josh: Had there been bodies of aliens in the debris, I would have picked them up and brought them in.
42:30
Travis: Corley quoted him as saying which is interesting because Walter Hout was the public information officer at Roswell Army Airfield who had initially issued the press release announcing the recovery of a flying disc On his deathbed.
42:43
Travis: He provided a sealed affidavit in which he claimed to have seen not only the debris but also alien bodies at a hangar in the base.
42:53
Josh: But these two people who were heavily involved and have their own interpretation of what happened and they're contradicting each other.
43:00
Josh: That's the problem with this.
43:01
Josh: That's why I am such a skeptic is because there's such contradictory information, and so I'm going to side with and unfortunate as it is, but I'm going to side with those that have the most information or the ones that are getting out ahead of it, you know, as the case may be, the us government, and just see where, like all this infighting kind of lands I mean, there's a, there's a, that's the.
43:23
Josh: The thing is so it's not like one common message.
43:26
Josh: All these conspiracies that come up about aliens all seem to contradict what, what the narrative is, and so you have like this infighting that's happening on this low level about what a scene and what an alien looks like and what the technology is.
43:41
Josh: But then the government is saying like no, it's a weather balloon, and that is so simple and concise and it makes it the easier to understand well, I'm excited for you to learn more and see what happens with your opinion yeah, we'll see.
43:54
Josh: I mean, I still, like I said, I think our universe is too big to not have other beings existing within our universe, or the multiple universes that exist within our galaxy, within the ever-growing, whatever space that we call Cosmos.
44:10
Josh: There we go.
44:11
Josh: So I believe it.
44:12
Josh: I just I'm a skeptic of the community, I'm a skeptic of the narrative that's coming out, because they are so contradictory.
44:21
Travis: So the Ramey memo.
44:23
Travis: In a photograph taken of General Ramey and Major Marcel posing with the weather balloon scraps, General Ramey is holding a memo in his hand that UFO investigators have been trying to read.
44:36
Travis: However, old copies of the photograph proved difficult to decipher.
44:40
Josh: This looks like the weather balloon.
44:42
Travis: This is when they got sent to their superiors and they staged this picture for the cover-up.
44:48
Josh: So they couldn't decipher it, but that is until-.
44:50
Josh: What you're not seeing is me doing air quotes over cover-up.
44:54
Travis: In 1998, when J Bond Johnson, who had taken six of the seven photographs in general ramey's office, decide to investigate further, johnson assembled a team to inspect the photographs.
45:06
Travis: That included a space satellite engineer.
45:08
Travis: Using a large blow-up of the photograph, a computer and a variety of software and camera equipment.
45:14
Travis: Johnson's team reported to see more of the message that Remy held.
45:18
Travis: The interpretation of the message was as the four hours the victims of the something at Fort Worth, texas, blank the crash story for zero.
45:30
Travis: Nine eight four acknowledges emergency powers are needed.
45:34
Travis: Site to Southwest of Magnella and M.
45:38
Travis: So New Mexico safe.
45:41
Travis: Talk for meaning of story mission weather balloon sent on the land Rover, signed temple.
45:48
Travis: So the accuracy of this memo is still questionable.
45:52
Travis: But if it is accurate at all, it could prove that the weather balloon story to be false in the air force's project mogul explanation to be a cover-up.
45:59
Travis: So that sounded like gibberish.
46:01
Travis: But they were only able to pick out certain phrases and certain words.
46:05
Travis: But those were the words and the phrases that they were able to do.
46:09
Travis: It's very interesting that he was holding something, because was that stage two or did he sneak in some kind of?
46:17
Josh: top secret.
46:17
Josh: Do you think maybe he snuck in something in that picture, this famous picture?
46:22
Travis: yeah, I can't imagine that they would allow that they it?
46:26
Josh: what it looks like is it's like coordinates.
46:29
Josh: Well, what it looks like to me is not like a weather balloon, but like the thing you put over somebody who is experiencing hypothermia.
46:38
Travis: Yeah, like a space blanket.
46:40
Josh: Yes.
46:41
Travis: And that's the thing is like.
46:42
Travis: He came out saying like no, that was a stage photo.
46:44
Travis: Yeah, I know fucking aluminum foil, I know what a space blanket looks like Sure, I've chewed gum before.
46:50
Travis: Yeah, I ain't no dummy.
46:52
Travis: This is not the same stuff that I saw and brought home and messed around with in my kid, and the kid even explains that a 10 year old is going to remember something like that right and I can see that being a soft touch with the government.
47:05
Josh: They're like no, okay, like people understand what aluminum foil is, that's going to be our narrative.
47:10
Josh: This guy is like well, that wasn't what I touched.
47:14
Travis: That doesn't mean that it was necessarily not of this world well, the other reason that the government or the military would hide this kind of information is because they want the technology and they don't want russia to have the technology, because at the time they were not yet.
47:31
Travis: We just finished world war ii russia was still a another superpower and that's why that's I mean, that's the excuse they gave is that these were things spying on russia.
47:42
Travis: This was a weather balloon set to spy on russia right, but I mean russia.
47:47
Josh: The united states has always needed a bad guy, and so I don't know.
47:51
Josh: I don't know what I'm trying to say here I think the military did hide it and I think they hid it because they wanted the technology quite, quite possibly they blamed on, they blamed it on, you know, russia, spy technology or or whatever, because, like I said, america has always needed an enemy yeah we were really reluctant to enter into the conflict in europe, like we didn't want to do that and we wouldn't have had the Japanese not bombed us.
48:17
Josh: There was project paperclip that got renamed, where we were bringing over Russian and German scientists to help devise the nuclear bomb, and Einstein was a consultant on this.
48:29
Josh: He came from Germany.
48:30
Josh: We brought him over here.
48:32
Travis: We did a lot with a russian scientist too yeah, we basically brain drained the world and got the smartest people we brain drained.
48:39
Josh: The conflicted world?
48:40
Josh: Yes, definitely like the part of the world that was under so much stress and pressure.
48:45
Travis: Yep, we brought them here so the cultural influence is flying saucers.
48:51
Travis: It's everywhere yeah I mean it's on.
48:53
Josh: The Simpsons.
48:54
Josh: That means it's real.
48:56
Josh: Like you said, it's permeated all of culture.
48:59
Josh: Everybody knows what a flying saucer is and what it looks like.
49:03
Josh: If you say flying saucer, you don't think Frisbee golf, you do think a disc with maybe even a little bubble over the top where aliens are looking out.
49:11
Josh: All of the Simpsons, right?
49:13
Josh: Yeah.
49:17
Travis: Like 50s, sci-fi played a huge role in this.
49:18
Travis: Was there conspiracy theories before Roswell?
49:20
Josh: There are conspiracy theories.
49:21
Josh: I do not fully trust the government, but in some cases it does seem a little more reliable when we're looking at personal testimony versus the US government.
49:31
Travis: Yeah.
49:32
Josh: Until more comes out.
49:33
Josh: And a lot more has come out.
49:34
Josh: You know now that we're in 2024.
49:36
Travis: Yeah.
49:36
Josh: There's more acknowledgement of what was seen recently, but nobody's really digging into the past of what was seen, right?
49:44
Josh: Does that make sense?
49:46
Travis: Yeah, I mean, it's 75 years ago.
49:48
Travis: Even Jordan, a researcher, was having difficulty coming up with this information, because one thing would say something and then something else would say no it was this person that brought this this is all pre-internet yeah and so people back then didn't have a platform to talk about this kind of thing.
50:06
Josh: And if this were assuming this is real, it is so much easier for the government to squash this a little bit of testimony and bury it than it is for one person to speak up against the government.
50:17
Josh: Yeah right, because they don't have a.
50:19
Josh: They don't have a platform like like they would now like.
50:22
Josh: Whistleblowers now are becoming the champions of our society.
50:26
Josh: They're the ones that are exposing the awful truths of corporations and and governments and governments and yep exactly roswell has a cultural phenomenon.
50:36
Travis: I mean there's books, movies, continued ufo sightings.
50:40
Travis: People have dedicated their entire lives.
50:42
Travis: I think if you go to roswell you could walk around like an alien, dress as an alien oh yeah.
50:46
Josh: What did we see the couple years ago where they were rushing roswell?
50:49
Travis: was that that was area 51.
50:51
Travis: Well, whatever, yeah, and they didn't rush it.
50:53
Travis: Some guy a couple people did.
50:55
Josh: They did the naruto run where they were running.
50:58
Travis: Yeah, they, that was.
50:59
Josh: It was more than it was more of an embarrassment than anything.
51:02
Josh: Yeah, no one got in trouble, right?
51:05
Travis: they didn't actually rush it.
51:07
Travis: They did little staged rushings.
51:08
Travis: But the person started a facebook page and said on this day, whatever.
51:13
Travis: And it went viral.
51:15
Josh: Everyone showed up and well, everyone did show up.
51:18
Josh: I wasn't there.
51:19
Travis: Well, were you?
51:20
Travis: Though you weren't there, I was there in spirit, but what happened was before the area 51 reached out to this guy saying, like you actually can't do this.
51:30
Travis: This is a secure military facility and even if they rush it, there's like the first fence that we see is 20 miles of nothing, it's just desert, yeah.
51:39
Travis: And then there's another fence with 10 miles of nothing.
51:42
Travis: So I mean, they have it.
51:43
Travis: You can't even see it.
51:45
Travis: Back in the day I've seen pictures from up on, like mountains.
51:49
Travis: You can't even get that close now.
51:51
Travis: You can't even take long, long distant photos of this place well, I mean fences have been notoriously impossible to climb they have.
51:59
Travis: But I mean you, you get a mile close to it.
52:02
Travis: You're being talked to.
52:03
Travis: Sure, roswell has been epic.
52:06
Travis: I mean we talked about men in black.
52:08
Travis: It got the the world, or it got the united states talking and interested in researching.
52:14
Travis: And in the 70s and 80s there was a surge of sci-fi movies uh, dude, earlier than that, 50s like well, yeah people that made a career off of like.
52:25
Josh: That was the not the peak of sci-fi, but that was when sci-fi was really introduced as a genre, was in the 50s.
52:32
Josh: Like we saw a lot of literature.
52:34
Josh: People were writing books about sci-fi.
52:36
Josh: I mean isaac asimov's been writing before that, and hg wells even before that, and mary shelley, like being the originator of all sci-fi writing, frankenstein, you know.
52:47
Josh: I mean people have been writing about sci-fi for a long time.
52:50
Josh: But there was a huge cultural movement around sci-fi in the 50s with, like these b alien movies that went into the 70s and then became like they went mainstream eventually sure yep et george lucas and spielberg being big sci-fi boys.
53:12
Josh: Yeah, sure, they push the genre forward Absolutely.
53:16
Travis: And a lot of these.
53:17
Travis: Like ET, was all about government cover-up trying to take over a site and keep extraterrestrials hidden Not hidden, but contained, contained.
53:27
Travis: But in the 90s Roswell became a symbol of UFO lore, with the town embracing its alien legacy.
53:34
Travis: Roswell became a symbol of ufo lore, with the town embracing its alien legacy, the international ufo museum and research center.
53:38
Josh: local businesses decorate with alien themes and various memorabilia kept I think, I think that should be a uh an episode.
53:44
Josh: Is us going that would be awesome roswell or like area 51, and recording from a gift shop there?
53:52
Travis: Yeah, I'd be totally down, okay, and Jordan was just telling me about the big alien conference that just happened, like it's like a huge epic thing, like everyone who's anyone is there.
54:04
Josh: I would love to go to that, but it would be hard not to.
54:06
Josh: Personally, it would be hard not to just get really upset with all the other tangential conspiracies that always come up with with aliens.
54:16
Travis: I think it'd be fascinating, and Jordan would come too.
54:18
Travis: She would love to be a part of that.
54:20
Josh: Sure.
54:20
Travis: But they have the aliens guy there, they have the guy that was in charge of the Pentagon's alien task force.
54:29
Travis: He's there, a couple of the guys actually, but yeah, in conclusion, roswell.
54:36
Josh: Are we gonna do closing thoughts on this.
54:38
Josh: Do you wanna?
54:38
Travis: well, I was gonna say roswell as of.
54:41
Travis: Still today, as much as it was when it was happening, is still a mystery.
54:47
Travis: I tend to not believe the government in this situation just because, like I said last episode, I don't think a whistleblower.
54:55
Travis: There's no benefit for a whistleblower to come out.
54:57
Travis: They're not trying to get 15 minutes of fame.
55:00
Travis: This is destroying their life and their livelihood.
55:02
Travis: They're being told they're psycho.
55:04
Josh: A lot of them lose their families.
55:05
Josh: So that's what Bob Lazar.
55:07
Josh: He lost a lot of cred, but he does have a lab where he's still practicing.
55:12
Josh: It's not like they totally crushed him and wiped him out of existence.
55:16
Josh: He's still alive and well and is doing well, and maybe some of the other than crippling anxiety and fear of being who doesn't have crippling anxiety.
55:25
Travis: We're human beings I think it's a next level, though.
55:29
Josh: The government's constantly monitoring you like high secret government I mean we're not even military I mean again, like that's speculation, it could be fans dressed as government officials.
55:42
Travis: You just you think he got raided?
55:43
Josh: by fans.
55:44
Josh: He got raided because he was in a prostitution ring.
55:47
Travis: He was, uh, he got raided while they're recording this, that movie that we watched the documentary yeah, they got rated because they were looking for that, that metal, but anyways, roswell that's what he said.
56:00
Josh: What they had said was they were looking for things that he had stolen from the lab they said that there was some like and we don't know what document errors from one of his clients.
56:11
Josh: We also don't know what a raid is Like.
56:14
Josh: It could have just been two government officials coming and saying we have a search and seizure thing here.
56:21
Josh: You need to stand outside while we look through your house and look for the stolen property.
56:25
Travis: It was multiple different departments came Wow.
56:28
Josh: Bob Lazar's testimony or somebody else's?
56:31
Travis: It was Bob's.
56:32
Josh: Show us the receipts.
56:33
Josh: If it was multiple agencies of government, they had to document that they had to show him.
56:38
Josh: Show us the receipts, bob.
56:40
Josh: That's what that's all I have to say.
56:41
Josh: That's that's what I'm going to say.
56:42
Josh: That's going to be a theme for me.
56:43
Josh: Show me the receipts.
56:44
Travis: I want to know the receipts I'm really excited that if we go to this, this conference, someday someone just hands you all that stuff.
56:52
Josh: I would love it.
56:53
Josh: That's what I want.
56:54
Josh: That is exactly what I want.
56:56
Travis: Yeah, and maybe, if we have listeners, send it to us.
57:00
Travis: Send it to us.
57:00
Travis: Sure, that would make my life easier.
57:02
Travis: I'm trying to convince this.
57:06
Travis: You know what?
57:07
Travis: I think he's wrong.
57:08
Travis: He thinks I'm wrong, and that's okay.
57:10
Josh: I don't think you're wrong, josh.
57:11
Josh: I, and that's okay.
57:11
Josh: I don't think you're wrong, josh.
57:12
Josh: I don't think you're wrong at all.
57:13
Josh: I think we believe in the same things.
57:16
Travis: I was trying to teach the listeners a lesson.
57:18
Josh: Okay.
57:18
Travis: Saying that it's okay to disagree and still be friends Okay.
57:22
Josh: No, you're right, You're 100% right.
57:23
Josh: Sorry I cut you off.
57:24
Josh: That is a very important lesson.
57:25
Josh: It is very important to be able to disagree with your close friends, and that I think that's ultimately what friendship is about being able to disagree on certain points and still be friends.
57:40
Travis: I agree.
57:40
Travis: So, in conclusion, roswell incident remains one of the most famous UFO stories.
57:45
Travis: As Roger Lanius, former curator of the space history at the Smithsonian, puts it, ufos are exactly that they're unidentified objects seen in the air, but that's not extraterrestrials.
57:57
Travis: The fascination with the unknown, however, continues to capture our collective imaginations and, like we said, we want feedback.
58:06
Travis: If you want to correct us, please do so.
58:08
Travis: That would be phenomenal.
58:10
Travis: If you have any questions, we'll try to answer them.
58:14
Travis: Sure, maybe not correct or what you want, but my, my thought, my conclusion is that this is a complete cover-up.
58:21
Travis: I think they saw what they saw.
58:23
Travis: I think marcel senior was a very intelligent major in the military and he was the first responder.
58:33
Travis: He got in trouble for jumping the gun.
58:36
Travis: The government had to quickly, the next day, extinguish all of what he said and try to cover it up for reverse engineering possibilities, so that they could have a one-up in technology in either the technology war or any, whatever enemy they chose to have at the time.
58:53
Travis: They wanted to have a one up on what was going on in the world, and I think Travis is wrong.
58:59
Travis: So what was your closing?
59:02
Josh: My closing thought is this is all very ambiguous.
59:04
Josh: This is all testimony based on speculation and, in some cases, gears difference from the actual incident happening.
59:12
Josh: Who knows if these people even wrote this stuff down.
59:14
Josh: Did something happen, maybe?
59:16
Josh: But could it have just been like a test pilot or a craft that was from the roswell roswell army air force base?
59:27
Josh: Sure, it could have been that too.
59:29
Josh: I just the fact that it was found by a farmer who waited days before turning this in this information in.
59:37
Josh: Then had somebody come out who held onto this supposedly for days.
59:41
Josh: Just it speaks to me.
59:44
Josh: If, like it, I don't know, it doesn't, it doesn't line up.
59:48
Josh: It speaks to me like you guys maybe are seeing different things than you actually saw, or you're reporting on different things than you actually saw.
59:56
Travis: Right, I wish you were there so bad I wish I was there too.
1:00:00
Josh: It would have been great and maybe I would have gotten swept under with the the whole conspiracy.
1:00:05
Josh: But like the time that this rancher saw it and was like, yeah, you know fucking what is this howie's comment, I don't know, and he didn't do anything about it, it wasn't remarkable enough for him to report anything until he was just like, oh, I got to get this shit off my land.
1:00:20
Josh: It's this weird metal stuff.
1:00:22
Josh: I better call the sheriff and he called a cop and the cop called Roswell Army Air Force Base and then brought somebody in.
1:00:29
Josh: And then it's just all conjecture, like people remembering things and not remembering things and reporting things and then maybe not reporting things.
1:00:37
Josh: We'll never know.
1:00:38
Josh: I don't know.
1:00:38
Josh: It's it's all.
1:00:40
Josh: It's all.
1:00:40
Josh: That's the.
1:00:41
Josh: The thing about this community is that it's all open to one person's testimony and we're basing an entire philosophy on one person's testimony.
1:00:50
Josh: Well, bob lazar has like almost an entire movement based on his one testimony.
1:00:55
Josh: Nobody else at the time came out.
1:00:57
Josh: I mean, he was like a whistleblower, but you would have thought that if he had had like real good connections with this community, that he was working within that somebody else, one other person would have said something as well.
1:01:10
Travis: He didn't have good.
1:01:11
Travis: You know what?
1:01:11
Travis: I'm not even going to get in on that.
1:01:13
Travis: Obviously we need more proof, so we're going to do more episodes.
1:01:16
Josh: Absolutely, this is fun.
1:01:20
Travis: For our next episode.
1:01:21
Josh: As is tradition, we're going to have a little quiz Just to see where we're at knowledge-wise Yep.
1:01:26
Josh: And I'm going to totally be embarrassed.
1:01:29
Josh: I'm sure I'm going to do terribly Get 100% wrong again.
1:01:33
Travis: The next episode we're going to record is about a mass sighting, okay, and it's called the aerial school incident.
1:01:42
Josh: Okay, very, very famous.
1:01:44
Josh: I've never heard of it.
1:01:45
Travis: I have heard of it.
1:01:46
Travis: I don't know a lot about it.
1:01:48
Josh: I don't know anything about it.
1:01:50
Travis: So we have four questions.
1:01:52
Josh: About the area school, the aerial, aerial school incident.
1:01:56
Travis: So question one okay, I'll read it, we'll both answer, because I don't I don't know the answers.
1:02:03
Josh: Is a multiple choice?
1:02:04
Travis: it is multiple choice, okay, so where do you want?
1:02:07
Josh: to let me answer first, because you're going to be right and I just might say no I'm not necessarily going to be right.
1:02:12
Josh: These are pretty hard questions okay, well, the last time I got all of them you got all of them right.
1:02:18
Josh: I got all of them wrong yeah, and we took turns.
1:02:21
Travis: Yeah, but this one I'm not gonna be right.
1:02:23
Travis: So, aerial school incident.
1:02:25
Travis: Where is the area?
1:02:27
Travis: Is it Rua, zimbabwe, louisiana, usa, georgetown, guyana or Toronto, canada?
1:02:40
Josh: Toronto, Canada.
1:02:41
Travis: Okay, I think it's Zimbabwe.
1:02:44
Josh: Okay, so we'll just remember that If it's formatted the same way as their test last week, then you have to wait to the end, but okay.
1:02:50
Josh: So I said Canada, you say Zimbabwe, so we'll remember that Zimbabwe, so remember that zimbabwe next question when did the aerial school incident occur?
1:02:59
Travis: jesus november 3rd 1964, april 7th 1972, september 16th 1994 or march 12th 1981 I'm gonna say 94.
1:03:13
Josh: I have no idea.
1:03:14
Josh: That's my guess.
1:03:15
Travis: I'm going to guess 81.
1:03:16
Travis: Okay, march 12th, yeah, so next question who are the witnesses to the event?
1:03:23
Josh: God damn it.
1:03:25
Josh: I assume these are probably famous people within the community and I'm going to look like a total asshole.
1:03:30
Josh: But go ahead, josh 27 parents waiting to pick up their children wait, it's not people, it's just a group yes, this is a mass sighting okay, waiting to pick up their kids 12 school facility members on lunch break okay 62 children at recess so we're establishing that it was probably an afternoon sighting.
1:03:51
Josh: Just just with these answers so far.
1:03:53
Travis: Three bus drivers at morning drop-off.
1:03:55
Josh: Damn it, I should have just kept my mouth shut, okay.
1:03:58
Josh: So at least two, maybe three of those were afternoon sightings.
1:04:02
Josh: I'm going to do a little bit of deduction here.
1:04:06
Josh: One was a morning sighting.
1:04:07
Josh: It was bus drivers.
1:04:09
Josh: I never trust a bus driver, so I'm going to throw those guys out.
1:04:12
Josh: I'm going to throw those guys out.
1:04:14
Josh: I'm going to say what was the first one 27 parents waiting to pick up children.
1:04:19
Josh: So an afternoon thing, okay, and the other one was kids at recess, and then 62 kids at recess or 12 school faculty members on lunch break.
1:04:29
Josh: So this happened at a okay so.
1:04:31
Travis: Happened at a school.
1:04:32
Josh: This is the school is literal school.
1:04:34
Josh: It's not like a group of flying saucers that were going to say school.
1:04:38
Travis: It wasn't like a school of fish, right Got it.
1:04:40
Josh: Okay, you know what?
1:04:44
Josh: Never trust a bus driver.
1:04:45
Josh: I'm going to say bus driver saw it.
1:04:47
Travis: You say three bus drivers saw it in the morning.
1:04:49
Travis: Drop off, yeah, okay.
1:04:56
Josh: I'm going to the morning drop off.
1:04:57
Travis: Yeah, okay, I'm gonna say 62 children at recess, kids though man notoriously terrible witnesses.
1:05:00
Travis: We'll find out, sure, we'll see, we'll find out 62 kids at recess.
1:05:02
Josh: That sounds awful.
1:05:03
Josh: What was claimed?
1:05:05
Travis: never trust them to have been seen.
1:05:06
Travis: Okay, a portal with shadow beings, many orbs hovering overhead, a strange monster in the field, a UFO and tall aliens.
1:05:18
Josh: Orbs.
1:05:19
Josh: I'm going to say orbs.
1:05:20
Travis: Okay, I'm going to say a UFO and tall aliens.
1:05:23
Josh: Wow, ship and and aliens and beings.
1:05:27
Travis: Yep, okay, so I'm going to submit this.
1:05:30
Travis: See where we're at, okay.
1:05:32
Josh: You remember your answer?
1:05:33
Travis: I remember my answers.
1:05:34
Josh: Yeah, your computer will remember mine.
1:05:37
Travis: So where's the aerial school located?
1:05:39
Travis: Yeah, you said Toronto, canada.
1:05:41
Josh: Yeah.
1:05:42
Travis: It was Zimbabwe.
1:05:43
Travis: God damn it.
1:05:45
Travis: That was my answer.
1:05:46
Josh: Okay, so this is all tracking.
1:05:49
Travis: When did the aerial school incident occur?
1:05:51
Travis: You were correct 94?
1:05:53
Josh: It.
1:05:53
Josh: When did the aerial school incident occur?
1:05:55
Josh: You were correct 94.
1:05:56
Josh: 94 september 16th 1994.
1:05:58
Josh: Wow, I wow.
1:05:58
Josh: This is like getting a super boring for me getting one of the answers right who were the witnesses to the event?
1:06:05
Travis: you said the three bus drivers.
1:06:06
Travis: Yeah, the answer is 62 children at recess god damn it fuck I'm pretty sure I've heard this, but not one adult saw it.
1:06:14
Josh: That's wild to me.
1:06:16
Travis: What was claimed to have been seen.
1:06:17
Travis: Oh, it's going to be aliens in a ship.
1:06:19
Travis: You said many orbs hovering overhead.
1:06:22
Travis: Yeah, the answer was a UFO and tall aliens.
1:06:25
Josh: Yeah, I knew it, because kids, man Kids, are always going to blow things way out of proportion.
1:06:31
Josh: Okay, can't wait to talk about that.
1:06:34
Josh: I can't wait to talk about kids.
1:06:35
Travis: Yeah, this is going to be a great one.
1:06:36
Josh: You know how I feel about eyewitnesses.
1:06:37
Josh: You love eyewitnesses and this is a math sighting.
1:06:40
Travis: There's been some math.
1:06:41
Travis: There's been entire towns.
1:06:42
Travis: There's a town in Arizona where there was this huge sighting and there's like 400 people that saw it, trusting the, the testimony of children.
1:06:56
Travis: Kids will say, hey, these were children in the 90s.
1:06:58
Travis: These aren't this.
1:06:59
Travis: That was me.
1:06:59
Travis: I was a child in the 90s and I'm sure you were a stand-up citizen.
1:07:01
Travis: I wasn't.
1:07:01
Josh: I was a liar, then l kids are liars.
1:07:04
Travis: Government humper is that a thing?
1:07:06
Josh: yeah, yes, it is I don't know, sure, yeah, I mean, that's what I named my pillow that I hump every night, sure, government?
1:07:16
Travis: govgov.
1:07:16
Travis: Well cool.
1:07:18
Josh: I'm excited for this next episode uh, yeah, I'm looking forward to the, uh, the discourse definitely yeah, and, like I always say, stay curious oh shit, you have a catchphrase well, yeah, this is the first time I've actually said it god damn it or, if you're travis, stay skeptical I guess my tight ass, my, my catchphrase is hamburger hot dog but yeah, stay curious out there oh god, okay, stay curious.
1:07:48
Josh: Thank you.