Latest / Honey Badger Radio / Janice Fiamengo talked her new book: The Goddess That Failed | Fireside Chat 278

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Janice Fiamengo talked her new book: The Goddess That Failed | Fireside Chat 278 · Honey Badger Radio

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you may be,
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: and welcome to Honey Badger Radio.
• 0:04
  Speaker 2: My name is Brian.
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: I am here with Allison, and this is the Fireside Chat,
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: where we have our special guest, returning guest, one of
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: our most favorite peoples in the world, Janice Fiamengo.
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  Speaker 2: Welcome to the show, Janice.
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  Speaker 3: Well, thank you. I am your biggest fan, so I'm
• 0:21
  Speaker 3: very happy to be here. Thank you. Thank you.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Well, we're bringing you on because you just released a
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  Speaker 1: new book. And I wanted, first of all, for you
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  Speaker 1: to tell our audience a little bit about this book
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  Speaker 1: and I guess where the impetus to write it came from.
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  Speaker 3: Oh, well, I will flog it.
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  Speaker 2: Here it is.
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  Speaker 3: It's called The Goddess That Failed, Feminism's Unending War Against Feminism. Men, Families,
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  Speaker 3: and Civilization Itself. Somebody told me at one point that
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  Speaker 3: the itself was redundant. I took it off, but the
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  Speaker 3: title had already been registered. So the itself is still there,
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  Speaker 3: and it kind of gives it a certain oomph, I think.
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  Speaker 3: So this has been, I guess, the book that I
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  Speaker 3: have been thinking about and working towards ever since I
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  Speaker 3: started giving anti-feminist talks and, uh, being interested in men's issues.
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  Speaker 3: It's the fruit of all of that thinking. And I
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  Speaker 3: feel like, um, it's probably, uh, I, I doubt that
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  Speaker 3: anybody in your audience, um, would, um, learn a great
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  Speaker 3: deal from it in a sense that it is really
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  Speaker 3: a book for like, like people who still think that
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  Speaker 3: feminism has something to do with gender equality or that
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  Speaker 3: it has to do with, you know, wanting to be
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  Speaker 3: able to enter the professions without being sexually harassed or,
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  Speaker 3: you know, like all of those, I think so many people,
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  Speaker 3: their thinking is still kind of in the 1970s, where
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  Speaker 3: they believe that, you know, there were these legitimate issues
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  Speaker 3: that women had. And I don't agree that feminism was
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  Speaker 3: ever about those legitimate issues. But, you know, and they think, well,
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  Speaker 3: I'm for gender equality. I want to work, you know,
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  Speaker 3: I want women to have the opportunity to do whatever
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  Speaker 3: they're good at. And I don't mind working with women,
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  Speaker 3: competent women. I'm happy. You know, I've had a woman
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  Speaker 3: boss and she was fine. Like, I really want to
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  Speaker 3: reach those people. Because I think that's still a huge
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  Speaker 3: majority of people in North American society. And I just
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  Speaker 3: want to really, by quoting feminists' own words about what
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  Speaker 3: they believe and what their values are and what they
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  Speaker 3: want to achieve in society in a whole range of areas,
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  Speaker 3: I mainly focus on stuff to do with like just
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  Speaker 3: every day, the family, you know, divorce, sexual relations, uh,
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  Speaker 3: domestic violence, um, and just like women's, um, uh, well, what,
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  Speaker 3: what women are told about men and vice versa, mainly
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  Speaker 3: what women are told about men, like just those everyday
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  Speaker 3: core kind of family issues. I want people to see
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  Speaker 3: what feminists have said about them since the very beginnings
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  Speaker 3: of the movement up until the present day, because of,
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  Speaker 3: and I feel like I'm talking to people who know
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  Speaker 3: all these issues, better than I do myself but like
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  Speaker 3: I just feel like so many I mean with you
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  Speaker 3: and your audience but I feel like so many people
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  Speaker 3: in general have accepted the idea that feminism is about
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  Speaker 3: equality it's about the liberation of both men and women
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  Speaker 3: you know and all those things and I just really
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  Speaker 3: want them to be able to see that although there
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  Speaker 3: may have been some reasonable feminists there may still be
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  Speaker 3: but that feminism itself as an ideology was always driven
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  Speaker 3: by incredible like envy and resentment and anti-male animus and
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  Speaker 3: a conviction of female moral supremacism, you know, and all
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  Speaker 3: of that. And, and you know, it's there from, if
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  Speaker 3: you go back to Elizabeth Cady Stanton at the very
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  Speaker 3: first women's rights conference, it's there in Mary Wollstonecraft, you know,
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  Speaker 3: it's there all through the suffragettes and, you know, whoever,
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  Speaker 3: Simone de Beauvoir, Virginia Woolf, Robin Morgan, Andrea Dworkin, Betty Friedan,
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  Speaker 3: like all of them. I have a chapter on Betty Friedan,
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  Speaker 3: which sort of started her book, The Feminine Mystique, which
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  Speaker 3: started the second wave feminist movement. And I quote extensively
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  Speaker 3: from her book, her crazy ideas and claims, all the
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  Speaker 3: misrepresentations of what life in the suburbs was like, allegedly
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  Speaker 3: in the 1950s. And I just, that's what it really is.
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  Speaker 3: I just want people to see how toxic, how malevolent
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  Speaker 3: feminism is, like this very strong exterminationist wing that people
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  Speaker 3: don't seem aware of or even to care about. I
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  Speaker 3: used to argue with feminists on Twitter when it was Twitter,
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  Speaker 3: you know, but all of these feminists, like feminist lecturers, academics, researchers,
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  Speaker 3: thought leaders who said that the world would be better
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  Speaker 3: off if men were reduced to 10% of the human population.
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  Speaker 3: They actually said it. And feminists don't care Nobody disavows
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  Speaker 3: those people or those ideas. Mary Daly said that we
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  Speaker 3: needed a decontamination of the earth. You know, Mona El-Tahawy
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  Speaker 3: is still talking about how we, you know, she has
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  Speaker 3: a fantasy of what would happen if we killed, uh,
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  Speaker 3: you know, some number of men every week. And we
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  Speaker 3: kept increasing the number until patriarchy finally came to the
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  Speaker 3: table and said, okay, let's, let's call it true. It's
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  Speaker 3: like all of these people, Marianne Franks is a legal
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  Speaker 3: theorist who actually argues that, uh, female violence, female criminal
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  Speaker 3: violence against men should be treated leniently so that there'd
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  Speaker 3: be some kind of equalization of violence, which would ultimately
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  Speaker 3: be good, even if it meant the killing of a
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  Speaker 3: number of innocent men who, and their, their killers not
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  Speaker 3: being punished harshly, like all that sort of stuff. I just,
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  Speaker 3: I really want people to be able to, to see that.
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  Speaker 3: And so I've, I've kind of put it in one book. Wow. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. You know, it's funny. I made a video about
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  Speaker 2: Elizabeth Cady Stanton.
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  Speaker 3: Yes.
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  Speaker 1: And all I did, I didn't even necessarily present a view.
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  Speaker 1: I just read the Declaration of Sentiments.
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  Speaker 3: Yes.
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  Speaker 2: And it did not click with people that there was
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  Speaker 2: an issue.
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  Speaker 1: I got comments like, well, I don't really see why
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  Speaker 1: this is a problem. It's just the Declaration of Independence
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  Speaker 1: that it's basically just expressing a grievance towards like the
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  Speaker 1: systems that are keeping women out of political office or
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  Speaker 1: whatever it was, you know, that have denying them the franchise.
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  Speaker 1: And I said, but the thing is, is that maybe
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  Speaker 1: I'm wrong. And maybe you can tell me why, you know,
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  Speaker 1: people should like how they should look at the document.
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  Speaker 1: But I said that, well, when Jefferson and company wrote
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  Speaker 1: the declaration of independence, they were specifically criticizing King George and,
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  Speaker 1: and his treatment of the colonists. And when that was done,
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  Speaker 1: it was, you know, we basically, like since then, we
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  Speaker 1: have been allies to the British and that we just
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  Speaker 1: basically stated our preferences to be separate in terms of government.
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  Speaker 2: So there's like a very specific reason for the document.
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  Speaker 1: But, and Elizabeth Cady Stanton's thing is not a condemnation
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  Speaker 1: of like a king. It is of men, like at
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  Speaker 1: the end, like all the men, right? So that's not
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  Speaker 1: the same in expression either. Is that fair to say,
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  Speaker 1: or is there more to it than that?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. I mean, that's exactly it, Brian. It is
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  Speaker 3: a declaration of war on the part of women, but
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  Speaker 3: it's not on the part of women against one single
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  Speaker 3: thing that they object to. It's a declaration of war
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  Speaker 3: against men. And it's a lie about the relationship that
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  Speaker 3: has existed between men and women. It claims that the
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  Speaker 3: history of humankind has been the history of repeated injuries
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  Speaker 3: and usurpation on the part of man against woman, having
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  Speaker 3: in direct object the establishment of an absolute tyranny over her.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, I just find it incredible that that document
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  Speaker 3: is still there up on the internet for anyone to read,
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  Speaker 3: full of lies. All of the subsidiary statements in which
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  Speaker 3: they elaborate on this attempt to establish an absolute tyranny
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  Speaker 3: is full of dishonesty and abject untruth, and yet that
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  Speaker 3: is considered the righteous founding of the American feminist movement. Yeah,
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  Speaker 3: men signed a document saying that their object in life
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  Speaker 3: was to establish tyranny over women. Well, if that were true,
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  Speaker 3: why are you signing this document then? It's just so crazy.
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  Speaker 3: Women signed the document knowing that its statements were untrue.
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  Speaker 3: It claimed that women in marriage had no rights at all.
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  Speaker 3: Not true. And Elizabeth Cady Stanton herself had participated just
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  Speaker 3: months earlier in establishing, in passing, the Married Women's Property Act,
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  Speaker 3: which secured property rights for women in marriage. That was
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  Speaker 3: in 1848, in the spring of 1848. In the summer
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  Speaker 3: of 1848, she claimed that women had no property rights
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  Speaker 3: in marriage. She claimed that men denied women the opportunity
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  Speaker 3: for higher education. Elizabeth Cady Stanton herself had attended an
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  Speaker 3: elite educational institute designed to guarantee women the same higher
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  Speaker 3: education rights as men. The document was signed by a
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  Speaker 3: woman named Lucy Stone who had attended Oberlin College, one
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  Speaker 3: of the elite upper educational institutions, higher education rather, and
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  Speaker 3: it had opened to women in 1837 and many other
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  Speaker 3: universities and colleges across the United States which had always
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  Speaker 3: valued the necessity of educating both men and women. were
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  Speaker 3: opening to women. So this notion that men wanted to
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  Speaker 3: keep women ignorant, which is in the document, was simply
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  Speaker 3: blatantly false and people who signed the document knew it
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  Speaker 3: was false. And there's so many others like that too,
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  Speaker 3: declaring that women weren't really persons under law, that they
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  Speaker 3: had no rights, that men tried to destroy them psychologically
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  Speaker 3: and emotionally by sapping their confidence in themselves, by denying
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  Speaker 3: them opportunities. So many of the statements are outright false
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  Speaker 3: and can be proven to be so with reference to
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  Speaker 3: the fact that women were, you know, they were business owners.
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  Speaker 3: They were authors. They campaigned for an end to slavery.
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  Speaker 3: They campaigned for prohibition. They were thought leaders in their societies.
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  Speaker 3: They became millionaires as a result of their business acumen.
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  Speaker 3: Like it is simply not true that they were shut
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  Speaker 3: out in the way that the document declares. So feminism
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  Speaker 3: in the United States was founded on lies and continued
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  Speaker 3: to be about lies. And I didn't even realize that
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  Speaker 3: until I think our friend Karen Strawn mentioned the Declaration
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  Speaker 3: of Sentiments at the first Men's Issues Conference in Detroit.
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  Speaker 3: So I make reference to that and to the many,
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  Speaker 3: unruly and malevolent and unfair actions and declarations of women
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  Speaker 3: throughout the history of the feminist movement. And I just
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  Speaker 3: hope people will realize how dishonest it has always been.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think we need content for people who are
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  Speaker 1: not in this space because, like you said, I think
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  Speaker 1: the zeitgeist, the overall Overton window is solidly framed in,
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  Speaker 1: you know, women need feminism and they've, and they've always
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  Speaker 1: needed it.
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  Speaker 2: And in many cases they still need it.
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  Speaker 1: And it is, it is not simply a man hating,
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  Speaker 1: you know, movement that's trying to destroy the family.
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  Speaker 2: Or basically just divide men and women.
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  Speaker 1: But rather, you know, most people believe that it was
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  Speaker 1: just something that women needed, like that they had been
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  Speaker 1: oppressed up until this point. It's always up until this point,
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  Speaker 1: but yeah.
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  Speaker 2: So yeah.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I saw recently a discussion by
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  Speaker 3: three feminists. It was supposed to be some sort of
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  Speaker 3: debate or conflict. And they were making claims. It's interesting
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  Speaker 3: to me how the past is continually reshaped by feminists
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  Speaker 3: so that up until 20 years ago, women couldn't do this, this,
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  Speaker 3: and this. And so now the claim is, a really
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  Speaker 3: popular one, is that up until 1974... you know, women
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: had no economic independence. They couldn't have bank accounts. They
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: couldn't have credit cards, you know, all these things. And like,
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  Speaker 3: you know, some of us were alive in 1974. And
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  Speaker 3: so we can know that these things are not true.
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  Speaker 3: I shopped with my mother who had a whole bunch
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  Speaker 3: of credit cards. And it like, it's just amazing to
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  Speaker 3: me that we continually allow women this rewriting of history
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  Speaker 3: on the part of feminists with things that are easily
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  Speaker 3: disproved and yet are widely accepted. So yeah, I really
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  Speaker 3: try to show how so much of feminism is simply,
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  Speaker 3: it's not even so much about women's wellbeing or anything.
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  Speaker 3: And if it were about women's wellbeing, it's not working
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  Speaker 3: since women keep reporting less life satisfaction and less happiness
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  Speaker 3: in every decade since the feminist movement started. So if
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  Speaker 3: it was about women's wellbeing, it's been an abject failure.
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  Speaker 3: But I don't even think like it isn't even really
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  Speaker 3: that and has probably never been that. It's always been
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  Speaker 3: mainly about decisively marginalizing men. Stephen Baskerville, I was just
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: talking to him and his sense now is that it
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  Speaker 3: really is about mass incarceration of men. and just getting
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: as many men as possible out of society or in
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: a position of servitude to women, unable to even push
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: back against feminist overreach and the desire to smash. So
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  Speaker 3: it's about that. And I think it's also about denying
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: and or justifying women's violence and women's culpability in harming others,
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  Speaker 3: I think that's even far more important as an impetus
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  Speaker 3: in feminism than well-being or women's rights or anything like that.
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  Speaker 3: Like there's so many historical episodes too, like I talk
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: a little bit about the white feather movement. You know,
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  Speaker 3: much of this, again, I know it's probably pretty familiar
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  Speaker 3: to you certainly and members of your audience. But again,
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  Speaker 3: I think it's not known by people in general. all
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  Speaker 3: the rage that women expressed towards men, the desire to
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  Speaker 3: see them destroyed. Why? In order, I guess, to prove
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  Speaker 3: that they were willing to sacrifice their lives for women,
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  Speaker 3: allegedly to save women from enemy men. And just the
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: cruelty that the White Feather campaign involved and the thousands
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: of women that were willing to participate, shaming men, and
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: hounding them to go to the front whether they wanted
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  Speaker 3: to or not, even well after conscription had already been established,
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  Speaker 3: so there's no actual need to encourage men to sign up.
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  Speaker 3: But it became about an attack on men, an allegedly
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  Speaker 3: righteous excuse for women to express their exterminationist hatred. And
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  Speaker 3: I think that's such a, we really need to be
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  Speaker 3: able to look honestly and talk about where all of
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  Speaker 3: that hatred comes from and, you know, erect guardrails to
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  Speaker 3: try to control it. And, you know, we see it again,
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  Speaker 3: of course, now with the Lindsay Clancy murder trial and
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  Speaker 3: the seems thousands, tens of thousands, perhaps of women who
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: are enthusiastically supporting her in her killing of her children,
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: declaring themselves her, you know, in solidarity with her, talking
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: about how they too have felt that way, you know,
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  Speaker 3: where we see a whole bunch of feminist themes coming together,
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  Speaker 3: the denial of women's murderousness, especially against children, the notion
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  Speaker 3: that motherhood is such a terrible burden that women are
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  Speaker 3: right to, you know, act out against it, even if
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  Speaker 3: it means harming their babies. Of course, it's scaring off
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  Speaker 3: a ton of young men who are looking at these
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  Speaker 3: women and thinking, I don't want to be involved with
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  Speaker 3: a woman if she's going to kill my children and
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  Speaker 3: then be champion for it in the culture at large.
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  Speaker 3: And so the destruction of the family and the encouragement
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  Speaker 3: of women to be their worst selves, that's the phrase
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  Speaker 3: that always comes back to me. It's like they just
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  Speaker 3: want women to be awful. And a lot of women,
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: you know, surprise, surprise, women have in them the capacity
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  Speaker 3: to be awful. And if the good behavior isn't incentivized
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  Speaker 3: and bad behavior punished, then yeah, we get a lot
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  Speaker 3: of awful women and we're all at their mercy now
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  Speaker 3: because it's very difficult to rein them in.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Do you think that, I didn't want to bring up
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  Speaker 1: the Lindsay Clancy case right away. I was going to
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: bring it up though, but since we're on the topic,
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  Speaker 1: I wonder, is this, like, are women doing this because
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  Speaker 1: they're trying to, and I know that I'm asking you
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: to speculate on people's intentions, we can't really know this
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  Speaker 1: for sure, but I do wonder if they're not doing
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  Speaker 1: this because they see other women doing it and they
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  Speaker 1: feel the need to participate.
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  Speaker 2: I think so.
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  Speaker 1: So they share the sentiments because they want to feel
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  Speaker 1: included because they don't want to feel like they're the
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: odd man out or odd woman out in this case.
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  Speaker 1: And instead of actually feeling this way, which is kind
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: of like what feminism, how they benefit or how it
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: benefits is that it knows there on some level, there's
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: an understanding that women feel safe in consensus with the
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: majority opinion on something, especially if that makes them look
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: like better people in this case, that they're sympathetic to
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: mental health issues and such. And so they are just
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: going online and they're just, you know, putting on music
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  Speaker 1: and doing this performative thing with, the baby and throwing.
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  Speaker 2: Ice and screaming and whatever.
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  Speaker 1: And it's all just a show so that they will
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  Speaker 1: be liked by other people. And it has nothing to
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  Speaker 1: do with what they would actually do to their children.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so. I mean, I wouldn't go so
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  Speaker 3: far to say that it doesn't have anything to do
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  Speaker 3: with what they would actually do, because I think women
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  Speaker 3: are deeply influenceable. And so they're not only influenced in
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: the things that they proclaim and the emotions that they
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: display or perform, but I think they start performing the
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: actions that they're encouraged to perform as well. And I
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  Speaker 3: would be very surprised if this whole episode doesn't result
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: in some very unhappy mothers killing their children or harming
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  Speaker 3: their children, because I think that women do act out
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: in those ways as well. And yeah, it's like feminism,
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: the attack on the family, the idea that the family
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: is the site of women's oppression, and therefore it's somehow
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: politically righteous to act out against publicly approved behavior within
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: the family, like the politicization of everything But then also
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: just the craziness of social media, where women at a
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: younger and younger age are influenced without really knowing anything
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: about the history of their society or anything, are influenced
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: to think that they have the right to behave, that
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: they should behave in certain kinds of ways. It is
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: incredibly corrosive and dangerous. But I think it is more
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: than just... socially approved, like sympathy for an allegedly unhappy
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: psychotic mother, because the, you know, the hatred being poured
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: out against Patrick is another element in it that, you know, it's,
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: it's quite remarkable. It's not surprising because of course, we're
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: always happy to see men as the villains and we
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: just don't tend to, we don't have a lot of
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: empathy for men, no matter what, even when they're clearly
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: the ones who have been harmed.
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: They even tried to blame the voice that she claimed
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: that she heard was a male voice. So they tried
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: to blame men in the most abstract way possible.
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it had to be a male voice, right? Because
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: a woman's voice would never tell anyone to kill. But yeah, yeah.
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: And some, of course, say it was really his voice.
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: You know, he convinced her that she was the one
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: who killed the children when, in fact, he was the
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: one who did it. I mean, there's so many different theories.
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: Or he's blamed just for being an inadequate person. husband
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: in some way because he didn't listen to her pain
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: or he didn't support her enough, or he didn't hear
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: when she was telling him about her distress or, you know,
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: he shouldn't have made her go back to work. I mean,
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: I've heard so many different, uh, hypotheses and, and, uh, yeah, the,
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: just the longing to hate him and to totally disregard
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: the tragedy of his life is, um, Yeah, it's really remarkable.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like they're angry at the situation, but they
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: don't want to be angry at the perpetrator because the
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: perpetrator is a woman.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: And maybe they have felt that, you know, they've had
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: those intrusive thoughts about their own kids.
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: So I wanted to.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: Ask you about your book because like Allison and I
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: have been talking a lot about feminist history on the channel.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: And one thing that Allison's been talking about a lot
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: lately are the red stockings. Did you do anything on
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: the red stockings in your book?
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: No, no. I don't even know anything about the red stockings.
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: No.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 22:38
  Speaker 4: So just to give you, um, essentially what it sounds
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: like is the red stockings was the even more radical
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: sequel to the declaration of sentiments. And, um, They said
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: things like all men receive economic, sexual, and psychological benefits
• 22:57
  Speaker 4: from male supremacy. All men have oppressed women. Racism, capitalism,
• 23:02
  Speaker 4: imperialism are extensions of male supremacy. So white women are,
• 23:06
  Speaker 4: of course, completely exempt from any of the uncomfortable accusations
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: or situations that come out of the civil rights movement.
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: Female perpetuated harm ruled inadmissible. So they're blameless, guys. They're
• 23:21
  Speaker 4: completely blameless. for all of the problems being identified in society.
• 23:27
  Speaker 4: Personal experience is the basis for an analysis of women's
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: common situation with the sole test being to accept no
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: generalizations that are not confirmed by our experience. And then
• 23:40
  Speaker 4: they called on all men to give up their male privileges.
• 23:44
  Speaker 4: And then there is a clause permitting a man to
• 23:48
  Speaker 4: renounce his position provided that he is willing to be
• 23:51
  Speaker 4: treated like a woman by other men. And the what?
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: What's the era? Is this like the 1970s? It's the
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: late 60s.
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: It's the late 60s. I mean, I could probably just
• 24:06
  Speaker 4: bring it up.
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: I think that like out of out of this, because
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: I noticed that it's like a series of like, I
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: don't know, escalating radicalization. So you have like women's liberation
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: movements and then it. out of that comes the red stockings,
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: which is basically saying that the, that, you know, Gloria
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: Steinem's movement wasn't radical enough.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: So we need to take it farther.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: And then there was, and I think the sixties, like
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: the Gloria Steinem period was probably radical against the previous period.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: And I think out of that came like just straight
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: up violent terrorists, like the weather underground, which was also
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: a feminist organization that bombed the Capitol and several government buildings.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: And after that, I learned the Weather Underground, the reason
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: why it started to collapse wasn't just because they were
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: starting to get arrested, but it was because there were
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: men in that group and the feminists in the Weather
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: Underground found that their own.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: Group was sexist. So they excluded them. Of course, it
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: didn't mean they actually were.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: It meant that the purity spiraling got to the point
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: where they were pushing out their own members, right?
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: There were too many men in the Weather Underground. So, yeah.
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: There's always that, uh, the, the purity movement inside any
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: organization that involves men. And so then you always have
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: a feminist rejecting the men in that movement and trying
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: to push them out or starting their own movement. This
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: is more, that's more radical.
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: I mean, from, from the, even in the sixties, you know,
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: you have people like Valerie Solanas. I talk about her
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: a bit, uh, with, uh, you know, her road attract, uh,
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: celebrating the murder of men and saying that that was
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: the way to adjust her society. And then she, tried
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: to murder Andy Warhol and at least two other men and, uh,
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: feminists celebrated her at the time. And, you know, that
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: was how her book became, uh, uh, so famous. And, uh,
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: it's been taught in women's studies classes and celebrated as
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: a prescient and, you know, visionary, uh, articulation of women's
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: situation in a capitalist patriarchy, you know, ever since. And so, yeah, the,
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: the raw hatred and celebration of, uh, like the righteous
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: obligation or mandate of women to take revenge against men is, yeah,
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: it's right there for all to see. And yet somehow
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: nobody worries about it too much. And, you know, if
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: you look through all of the 1980, well, we start
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: in 1975 with Susan Brown Miller, for example, claiming that
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: all men approve of rape. because it keeps women afraid
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: and men prefer to have women afraid of them. That
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: it was taught as serious sociological insight in the earliest
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: women's studies classes. And then by the time you got
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: to Andrea Dworkin and Catherine McKinnon in the 1980s, you
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: had Catherine McKinnon saying things like that the primary distinction
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: between normal intercourse and rape was that the normal happens
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: so often that it's difficult to get anybody to see
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: anything wrong with it. And then, of course, feminists did
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: attempt to show what was wrong with normal intercourse. And
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: we get all sorts of declarations about how all sexuality
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: is demeaning and all heterosexuality, I should say, is demeaning
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: and humiliating and oppressive.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: For the woman and her right Dworkin.
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Dworkin and, and, you know, Dworkin telling men, even,
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: you know, feminist men who invited her to speak at
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: their conferences and she just excoriates them and tells them
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: that women aren't going to do the work of helping
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: them to believe in their own humanity anymore. That's a
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: work they're going to have to do for themselves. And,
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: You know, just like at the same time claiming that
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: women are the more empathetic sex while showing that she
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: has absolutely no empathy, even for the most pro-feminist men
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: who invited her to speak. Like, you know, just the
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: raw contempt for that she and so many other feminist
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: luminaries expressed and were celebrated for expressing by the general
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: population of feminist women at the time is really striking.
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: So it's not at all surprising that four decades on
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: after gender studies and women's studies programs percolated throughout the
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: entire university and then went into, they sent out their
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: foot soldiers into teaching programs and publishing and media and
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: law and, you know, everything. And that, that they told
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: those people, those young women that their whole, the whole
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: purpose was to change society. This was not about learning
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: or having a kind of skeptical interest in issues or
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: anything like that, but it was to change society from
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: the position of the belief in the female moral support.
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: Superiority is a fact that, And yeah, not surprising that
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: we are where we are today, where so many women,
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: even women who don't, like that's the thing, even women
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: who don't call themselves feminists are feminists. essentially.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes.
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: And I'm glad that people are, more and more people
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: are discovering this truth. The Lindsay Clancy case helped with that,
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: specifically the women's reaction to it.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: But Alison, you were bringing up the notes on, your
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: notes on the Red Socket.
• 29:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah, actually I'll just quote directly from their manifesto. Red stocking, okay,
• 30:01
  Speaker 4: so after centuries of individual and preliminary political struggle, women
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: are uniting to achieve their final liberation from male supremacy.
• 30:09
  Speaker 4: This was in 1969. Red stockings is dedicated to building
• 30:13
  Speaker 4: this unity and winning our freedom. Women are an oppressed class.
• 30:17
  Speaker 4: Our oppression is total, affecting every faucet of our lives.
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: We are exploited as sex objects, breeders, domestic servants, and
• 30:24
  Speaker 4: cheap labor. This is the origin of objectification, emotional labor,
• 30:31
  Speaker 4: all of the conversation around work versus housework, unpaid labor.
• 30:36
  Speaker 4: We are considered inferior beings whose only purpose is to
• 30:39
  Speaker 4: enhance men's lives. Our humanity is denied. Our prescribed behavior
• 30:43
  Speaker 4: is enforced by the threat of physical violence. And that's
• 30:46
  Speaker 4: also fundamental to the feminist academic position because they believe
• 30:52
  Speaker 4: that men use beatings and sexual assault to establish patriarchy,
• 30:57
  Speaker 4: enforce it, and maintain it. Because we have lived so
• 31:00
  Speaker 4: intimately with our oppressors in isolation from each other, we
• 31:03
  Speaker 4: have been kept from seeing our personal suffering as political condition.
• 31:06
  Speaker 4: This creates the illusion that a woman's relationship with her
• 31:09
  Speaker 4: man is a matter of interplay between two unique personalities
• 31:12
  Speaker 4: and can be worked out individually. In reality, every such
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: relationship is a class relationship and the conflicts between individual
• 31:20
  Speaker 4: men and women are political conflicts that can only be
• 31:23
  Speaker 4: solved collectively.
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 31:26
  Speaker 4: We identify the agents of our oppression as men. Male
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: supremacy is the oldest, most basic form of domination. All
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: other forms of exploitation and oppression, capitalism, racism, imperialism are
• 31:37
  Speaker 4: extensions of male supremacy. Men dominate women. A few men
• 31:41
  Speaker 4: dominate the rest. All power structures throughout history have been
• 31:44
  Speaker 4: male-dominated and male-orientated. Men have controlled all political, economic, and
• 31:48
  Speaker 4: cultural institutions and backed up this control with physical force.
• 31:52
  Speaker 4: They've used their power to keep women in inferiority. And
• 31:54
  Speaker 4: it goes on and on and on and on and on.
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's all there, isn't it? Yeah, every bit of it. Yeah,
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: as you say. And, you know, you can find the
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: roots of it, like, in the 19th century, too. Like,
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: the feminists were always in love with Marxist analysis. You
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: can even go back to, like, there was a French
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: socialist named Charles Fourier. I spelt Fourier. I-E-R. And he basically,
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: you know, he outlined an idea of a socialist community
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: where everybody would contribute their work, but he made a
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: big point of saying that monogamous marriage was the primary
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: site of women's oppression.
• 32:42
  Speaker 4: And he talked about- Just by the amusing that came
• 32:44
  Speaker 4: from a Frenchman.
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: No, it's always the French, Alison.
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: I'm asking the FQ now.
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: Why is it always the French? My pattern recognition is
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: going off. Sorry, go ahead. No, that's okay.
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's true. And like the feminists just love
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: that idea that women needed to be liberated from their
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: oppression within the family. And so they politicized. And yeah,
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: exactly as you were just pointing out. So now everything,
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: like we talk about the burden of reproduction and we
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: talk about, you know, emotional labors you know, the labor
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: of caregiving and all these things. So all the most
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: intimate aspects of our lives as men and women and
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: mothers and fathers turn into some sort of expression of
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: class conflict, where women are encouraged to see themselves as
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: oppressed and to rebel, you know, by refusing to do
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: various things or by harboring resentment and anger rather than
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: gratitude and and love and happiness. And Marx and Engels
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: themselves in 1884 in their book, The Origin of the
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: Family Private Property in the State also really, really hammered
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: away at the feminist ideology of the family as a
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: site of women's oppression. This was Engels, because Marx had
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: died by this point, but it's based on Marx's papers.
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: And Engels said that the position of the woman in
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: a marriage was completely analogous to the condition of the
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: oppressed worker under capitalism. And so that then evolved into
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: the Marxist feminist ideology of class conflict. And Robin Morgan
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: said the oppressed class has the right to hate the
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: oppressor class and women are the oppressed class.
• 34:39
  Speaker 4: What's really interesting is when I went back into the
• 34:42
  Speaker 4: history of all this, so that was the red stockings
• 34:44
  Speaker 4: manifesto at the time that this was all happening. There were,
• 34:48
  Speaker 4: there were threads of feminism and they were basically fighting
• 34:51
  Speaker 4: for dominance or fighting for the, the central position is
• 34:56
  Speaker 4: the defining the situation and the red, that was the,
• 35:00
  Speaker 4: the rad fems. And one of the central positions that
• 35:03
  Speaker 4: the rad feminists have was that oppression was innate, biologically
• 35:08
  Speaker 4: innate to men. So it was like a biological feature
• 35:11
  Speaker 4: of masculinity and malehood. And what you spoke about how
• 35:18
  Speaker 4: feminists really like Marxist analysis, but here was something that
• 35:22
  Speaker 4: happened when they were having these kind of, I don't
• 35:25
  Speaker 4: want to say theoretical, but conjectural debates, because these aren't theories.
• 35:28
  Speaker 4: They have no explanatory power whatsoever. The Marxist feminists attempted
• 35:34
  Speaker 4: multiple times over the years to I think it ended
• 35:40
  Speaker 4: in 1975. Between 1975 and 1980, the question ended. But
• 35:44
  Speaker 4: they attempted multiple times to derive the material benefit for
• 35:50
  Speaker 4: men from the relationship between men and women, and they couldn't.
• 35:55
  Speaker 4: They couldn't situate it. So they were going back and forth,
• 35:59
  Speaker 4: like Bremer... made her derivation, she said, well, I can't
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: actually find it. And then another Marxist feminist would look
• 36:06
  Speaker 4: at her work and say, well, this is what you
• 36:07
  Speaker 4: did wrong. But they couldn't find the actual material benefit
• 36:13
  Speaker 4: that men got from marriages. And of course, the material
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: dialectic is about locating the material benefit because that's where
• 36:21
  Speaker 4: The oppression sits. That's where the oppressor is because they
• 36:25
  Speaker 4: benefit materially from the relationship and the other, the proletariat
• 36:29
  Speaker 4: doesn't benefit the capitalist benefits. They couldn't find it because
• 36:33
  Speaker 4: of course the obvious answer to that is the material
• 36:37
  Speaker 4: benefit goes to the woman. That's the point of marriage.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 36:42
  Speaker 4: And they could not, they could not square that circle.
• 36:44
  Speaker 4: So what ended up happening is all of the Marxist
• 36:46
  Speaker 4: feminist analysis dropped off the map, right? And they developed
• 36:51
  Speaker 4: standpoint theory. And what standpoint theory does is it says
• 36:56
  Speaker 4: that women have women's ways of knowing. And in particular,
• 36:59
  Speaker 4: some of the explanations for how women's ways of knowing
• 37:02
  Speaker 4: are particularly misandrous. Like men, when they differentiate from their mother,
• 37:07
  Speaker 4: I guess, lose connection to the eternal feminine and then
• 37:11
  Speaker 4: no longer have the ability to feel feelings or something
• 37:13
  Speaker 4: and can't develop human relationships at that point. Therefore, women
• 37:17
  Speaker 4: have everything. a greater understanding of the relationship between themselves
• 37:22
  Speaker 4: and men. Therefore, they know more. Therefore, they're the ones
• 37:28
  Speaker 4: who can characterize the relationship. We don't need to derive
• 37:31
  Speaker 4: material benefit for women from the relationship. We know we're
• 37:35
  Speaker 4: oppressed because we feel resentment. That's it. It all became,
• 37:39
  Speaker 4: our feelings are the real, like that's all we needed.
• 37:43
  Speaker 4: All we need to prove everything is that we feel
• 37:46
  Speaker 4: this way Therefore, it is true. That is standpoint theory.
• 37:50
  Speaker 4: We feel this way. Therefore, it is true. But I
• 37:52
  Speaker 4: found that really interesting because they did try to derive
• 37:56
  Speaker 4: material benefit for men and failed. So whatever ended up
• 38:00
  Speaker 4: after that was I don't know if you can call
• 38:03
  Speaker 4: it necessarily Marxist feminist. It's like a fusion between the
• 38:06
  Speaker 4: radical feminists and the belief that these things are socialized. Therefore,
• 38:13
  Speaker 4: although they apply to all men, which requires an actual
• 38:16
  Speaker 4: biological precondition for it to apply to all men, but
• 38:21
  Speaker 4: they deny that they're doing that, it is socialized somehow
• 38:24
  Speaker 4: because the patriarchy socialization fairy just hits boys at the
• 38:28
  Speaker 4: age of three or whatever. But that means that they
• 38:32
  Speaker 4: can get their noses into everything to correct it. They
• 38:35
  Speaker 4: can have control over every policy, every law, every institution
• 38:40
  Speaker 4: to correct this problem. So they, by making it out
• 38:44
  Speaker 4: to be socialized instead of biological, because the radfems, they
• 38:48
  Speaker 4: gained a huge narrative of control, but while still maintaining
• 38:54
  Speaker 4: the ubiquity that can only come from a biological explanation.
• 38:58
  Speaker 4: So it's all just, everything is just, we felt it,
• 39:02
  Speaker 4: therefore it's real. This is why we're justified having power
• 39:06
  Speaker 4: over everyone because we felt resentment once. We were a
• 39:09
  Speaker 4: bunch of bored housewives who didn't have something to do.
• 39:12
  Speaker 4: So we got we felt resentment towards our husbands because
• 39:14
  Speaker 4: they seem to have a sense of purpose, which was
• 39:17
  Speaker 4: providing materially for us. But, you know, let's forget that.
• 39:21
  Speaker 4: And it's all just that. It's all they had a
• 39:24
  Speaker 4: feeling of resentment. They attempted to derive it through Marxist
• 39:29
  Speaker 4: material analysis. tried to fuse the two, but it didn't work.
• 39:32
  Speaker 4: So they created standpoint theory instead to justify why their
• 39:35
  Speaker 4: feelings are real, are more real than facts or men's feelings.
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: Oh, yes.
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: Well, the oppressed always understand things in a way that
• 39:45
  Speaker 3: the oppressor can't possibly. So if men are by definition
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: the oppressors, then they can't possibly understand any of the
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: sexual dynamics that they're a part of. But yeah, you're right.
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: It's really interesting. It's like the Marxist analysis became sort
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: of mystified, or what's the right word? I don't know.
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: It became mystical in the sense that it was about
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: then an emotional... benefit that men drive, because you still
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: see tons of surveys purporting to prove that women do
• 40:17
  Speaker 3: way more of the household work, but they include all
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: sorts of things like organizing a child's birthday party, or,
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: you know, remembering to send out a sympathy card or
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: phoning somebody to discuss, you know, when when a cousin
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: is going through a hard time. And they allege that
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: women do that far more than men. And therefore, women
• 40:37
  Speaker 3: not only do more housework, they still try to fit
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: in the material aspect of things. But they also include
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: all this emotional labor that allegedly provides a benefit to
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: men and, you know, depletes and drains women. Of course,
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: they never count the all the other material things that
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: men do, and the emotional stability and support and also provide.
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: And so yeah, it's always so lopsided. And And so
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: deeply dishonest. And I think it did become sort of
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: religious in there as well, you know, with ideas that,
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: as you say, we would never find a feminist who
• 41:16
  Speaker 3: would admit that toxic masculinity is actually inborn. They would
• 41:23
  Speaker 3: always say, oh, no, no, no, no, this is because
• 41:25
  Speaker 3: of how men are socialized in the wider world. although
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: they can never explain how is it that if a
• 41:31
  Speaker 3: boy is raised by a single mother, taught by women,
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: cared for by solely women, how he picks up on
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: this alleged socialization. But yes, I think still the idea
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: is that there's something in masculinity itself that even if
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: you work very hard every day to try to purge it,
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: it will still probably manifest in some way that is
• 41:59
  Speaker 3: harmful to women. It really is. I mean, the whole
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: notion of toxic.
• 42:04
  Speaker 4: Male conversion therapy.
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: The men have to continually from the earliest possible age.
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: I have a chapter on feminist mothering in my book. And,
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: you know, it's just horrifying to read what feminists will.
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: So they've written about how to parent boys. Yeah.
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah.
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: I mean, I want to know what they're, because maybe
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: this is the advice that Clementine Ford is doing right
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: now because she has a son and she's extremely radical.
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: So yeah, let's hear about feminist parenting.
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: I want to know.
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, it's just exactly what you would expect.
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: Like it's that bald and crude and horrific. It is
• 42:46
  Speaker 3: child abuse under the rubric of feminist parenting for social justice.
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: And I found all of these just by putting in Google,
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: you know, like all you have to do is write
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: how to raise a feminist son. And you will find
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: mothers everywhere in mainstream magazines, in more august publications like
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: the Washington Post or whatever, outright talking about how from
• 43:13
  Speaker 3: a very early age, like, you know, age two or three,
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: she starts instructing her son about the burden of shame
• 43:22
  Speaker 3: that he has to bear because he was born into
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: a male body and how he has to be on
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: guard always that he doesn't harm women. Nothing about, of course,
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: how he should protect himself from dangerous females and how
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: he can hurt a woman in all sorts of ways
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: by objectifying her, even just by looking at her in
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: the wrong way. And he has to, in order to
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: purge himself, of his toxic masculinity, he has to devote
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: his whole life to protecting girls and women and centering
• 43:55
  Speaker 3: them and thinking about their safety and security. And it's
• 43:59
  Speaker 3: just horrible. In the pages of Good Housekeeping, you have
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: women agonizing about how their son may well turn out
• 44:08
  Speaker 3: to be a rapist and there's nothing they can do
• 44:10
  Speaker 3: about it and how they carry on. They carry that thought,
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: that fear with them all the time. And of course,
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: it affects how they parent and how they regard that
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: little boy. And they're going to try to make him
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: into the best feminist that he can be. And they
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: make it very clear to their sons that the only
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: way the sons can really hope for their love, and
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: it will always be conditional, but the only way they
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: can really hope for their love is to become feminists
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: and who betray their fellow men and devote themselves to
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: the care of women. It's, it's really, yeah, it's exactly
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: what you would imagine. And it's out there unapologetically everywhere
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: on the internet and in the pages of magazines and newspapers.
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: It's in the media, it's in education. It's the norm.
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: It's the water we swim in as the air we breathe. Right.
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 45:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: It's just, it's, it's really incredible. And, and I, so
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: I guess like the one, the one thing that I,
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: you know, I don't have answers either really, because I
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: don't see things changing for the better. I hope I'm wrong,
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: but you know, I just seems like this train is
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: just going, it's got so much impetus. So many men
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: are willing to go along with it. Cause it's, either
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: they genuinely love women and think that they should support
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: them and whatever it is that they claim they need,
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: or because they're afraid, you know, they know how, how
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: powerless they all, you know, in a way we're all
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: Patrick Clancy now, it seems like, you know, no matter
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: what you do, you can't control your crazy wife. And
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: if she kills your children, she's going to be celebrated
• 45:53
  Speaker 3: for it and you're going to be blamed. And so
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: that is the position of men in our society generally.
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: And so a lot of men just decide, I've got
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: to keep my head down. I'm not going to speak out.
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: I'm not going to do anything. I can be fired.
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: I can have my reputation destroyed. I can be, you know, imprisoned.
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: That's how we've set up our society now. And so it's, it's,
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: it is pretty appalling, but I just hope that maybe
• 46:15
  Speaker 3: if enough people see the raw hatred in so many
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: of these feminist claims and how damaging and harmful and
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: corrosive it is, like, I would like it that feminists,
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: identifying as a feminist would be something that would immediately
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: disqualify anyone from any position of authority and responsibility in
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: our society. And I think that's perfectly reasonable in the
• 46:39
  Speaker 3: sense that like, the more I thought about like, why
• 46:41
  Speaker 3: would we allow somebody to be a president of a
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: school or even a teacher when she has admitted that
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: she does not feel the same amount of empathy and
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: care and compassion for men and boys as she does
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: for women and men. Why would we allow that person
• 46:58
  Speaker 3: to have any kind of position of responsibility? She certainly
• 47:01
  Speaker 3: shouldn't be a judge or a lawyer, certainly shouldn't be
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: on the Supreme Court or in any court, shouldn't be
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: a social worker. She shouldn't have any control over decisions
• 47:13
  Speaker 3: about how a child is raised or whether the father
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: should have a role in that child's life. Like I just, that's,
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: I think maybe like that's the one contribution I feel
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: like I can make to public discourse is really alerting
• 47:27
  Speaker 3: people like what a female supremacist anti-male ideology feminism is
• 47:34
  Speaker 3: and how it shouldn't be. We should not allow people
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: who hold that ideology to have any positions of power
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: in our society. Yeah.
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: I see that your book, the book, by the way,
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: is called The Goddess That Failed, Feminism's Unending War Against Men, Families,
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: and Civilization Itself. First of all, I saw that you're
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: getting some pretty decent reviews from people like Jordan Peterson
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: endorsed your book, Bruce Pardee, the professor of law at
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: Queens University, Bettina Arndt, and Dr. Hannah Spear, who has
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: actually been on our channel like I think it was
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: last week.
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: Oh, really? Oh, neat.
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: Dr. Hannah.
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah. She's great.
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: She's talking to you. She's spoken to you many times.
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: So is the book doing well? Like, are you selling copies?
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: And cause I mean, Alison has also looked into the
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: bias in the publishing industry as well.
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: That's like very feminist.
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: So I wonder how, how much exposure your book is
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: getting if it's being limited in some way or something
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: like that.
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I can't really answer that. I have no idea
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: whether it sold 10 copies, 100 copies or anything. I
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: don't know yet. But, you know, it's just been out
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: for three weeks. So I hope it's picking up steam.
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: But yeah, I don't know. The only thing I can
• 48:55
  Speaker 3: say for sure is that everybody who has ordered the
• 49:00
  Speaker 3: book in Canada has been told that it's delayed.
• 49:03
  Speaker 4: Mm hmm.
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: And I find that interesting because most books I order
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: on Amazon come within two or three days. And I've
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: had people tell me that they're not going to get
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: it until the end of September, even though they ordered it,
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: they pre-ordered it before it was even physically available. So
• 49:20
  Speaker 3: I don't know whether that's like part of a feminist
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: plot against my book. I mentioned it to the publisher.
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: It was published by a small press company. She said,
• 49:33
  Speaker 3: it's not a problem on our end. It's a problem
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: on Amazon's end. She said that they didn't think it
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: would sell. So they didn't order very many copies. So
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: on the one hand, maybe that's good in that it
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: has outsold what Amazon expected, but I don't know what
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: that means. But it also means that people who thought
• 49:52
  Speaker 3: of ordering it were immediately told that they wouldn't get
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: it for six to eight weeks. And so maybe that's
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: a good way of suppressing the book. I don't know.
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: I hope not.
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: I think probably I, I, I didn't check myself.
• 50:04
  Speaker 4: Actually.
• 50:04
  Speaker 3: I meant to this morning. I forgot. I think if
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: you order it on Kindle, you know, which is, you
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: can get it for a very pretty reasonable price. I
• 50:12
  Speaker 3: think getting it's under $ 10 and, um, maybe that way
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: you can get it right away. I'm not sure.
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: All right. Are you going to do an audio book
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: of it?
• 50:23
  Speaker 3: Well, it's already, you know, I wanted to, I, I,
• 50:25
  Speaker 3: I do really want to. And I, and I, um,
• 50:28
  Speaker 3: my husband, David doesn't think that's a good idea, but
• 50:30
  Speaker 3: I'd love to, um, And so I think I will
• 50:33
  Speaker 3: at some point, it's already been turned into an audio book,
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: you know, by AI, but it's, so it's an AI.
• 50:39
  Speaker 3: I think it's a male voice, but I would love
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: to do my own version of it because yeah, it
• 50:45
  Speaker 3: was a book that came, it, it, it, it's the
• 50:49
  Speaker 3: fruit of years and years and years of, of thinking. And, and,
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: and like, I tried to distill into a relatively short
• 50:58
  Speaker 3: book and, everything I think is important to know about feminism.
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: And I, and I, I really, I wrote it to
• 51:07
  Speaker 3: honor male decency and to show that, that feminism is
• 51:14
  Speaker 3: dishonest from its inception, especially about, you know, its refusal
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: to acknowledge male decency and indeed the, you know, the
• 51:24
  Speaker 3: male role in building civilization.
• 51:28
  Speaker 4: Well, they, they rely on it. they rely on male
• 51:31
  Speaker 4: decency to get anything they're done. I get into these
• 51:34
  Speaker 4: arguments with feminists. I'm like, well, what's your plans? How
• 51:37
  Speaker 4: are your, what's your exit strategy? They have none. Their entire,
• 51:43
  Speaker 4: their entire toolkit is to complain to the very people
• 51:46
  Speaker 4: they say don't care about them.
• 51:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I know.
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 51:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 51:50
  Speaker 3: It's like if, if men were anything like what feminists
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: have continually claimed they are, then it would be useless
• 51:57
  Speaker 3: to appeal to them and demand that they do things
• 51:59
  Speaker 3: because men just wouldn't do it. It reminds me of
• 52:02
  Speaker 3: that famous essay that Professor Susanna Walters wrote, remember, in
• 52:06
  Speaker 3: the Washington Post called Why Can't We Hate Men? It
• 52:10
  Speaker 3: was in, I think, 2018, where she spent the first
• 52:13
  Speaker 3: half of the article talking about how lousy men are
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: and how women are absolutely right to despise them. And
• 52:18
  Speaker 3: then the second half, instructing men, what they could do,
• 52:22
  Speaker 3: not so that they wouldn't be despised, but so they
• 52:25
  Speaker 3: would be despised slightly less. And the thing was, you know,
• 52:29
  Speaker 3: men were to take a step back, let feminist women
• 52:32
  Speaker 3: take power, only vote for feminist women, you know, always
• 52:35
  Speaker 3: defer to feminist women, let women take control of our societies.
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: But it was so incoherent because if men were anything
• 52:42
  Speaker 3: like she had claimed... Well, they wouldn't care whether they
• 52:45
  Speaker 3: were hated or not hated. They would just go ahead
• 52:47
  Speaker 3: and do all their terrible things to women. So, and that,
• 52:50
  Speaker 3: you know, you're right, Alison, that has been feminism from
• 52:53
  Speaker 3: the beginning appeals to men while at the same time
• 52:57
  Speaker 3: telling men that they're awful. Yep. Pretty incoherent.
• 53:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah. And again, like I, I, this, this incident, this,
• 53:07
  Speaker 4: this like 10 year debate between Marxist feminists, rad femmes
• 53:11
  Speaker 4: and what, what ended up happening is, to the movement.
• 53:14
  Speaker 4: I don't think that they, I think there's a reason
• 53:17
  Speaker 4: nobody knows about it because it just dropped off the map.
• 53:21
  Speaker 4: And then we live, we actually live downstream of the
• 53:24
  Speaker 4: effects of it, of the decisions made during it. And
• 53:27
  Speaker 4: what's really, what's I don't know, hilarious, darkly funny about
• 53:32
  Speaker 4: it is all of this. All of this, what you're
• 53:35
  Speaker 4: talking about, these feminist mothers abusing their boys, making their
• 53:40
  Speaker 4: boys feel lesser, small, insignificant, expendable. All the feminist academia,
• 53:46
  Speaker 4: all of the government programs, all of the policy changes,
• 53:50
  Speaker 4: all of the family law, all of the lies about
• 53:53
  Speaker 4: who is engaging in domestic violence and sexual assault, all
• 53:58
  Speaker 4: of it is based on a feeling.
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: That's it.
• 54:02
  Speaker 4: The entire... Destruction and distortion of our society is based
• 54:09
  Speaker 4: on the feeling of a bunch of women and that's it.
• 54:13
  Speaker 3: There's no logic.
• 54:14
  Speaker 4: There's no facts to it. They did go back through
• 54:17
  Speaker 4: history and cherry pick a bunch of stuff to support it,
• 54:20
  Speaker 4: but that isn't evidence. It is assuming something and then
• 54:26
  Speaker 4: going around and not actually testing it, but just finding
• 54:30
  Speaker 4: everything that might You could use sophistry to persuade some
• 54:35
  Speaker 4: people of it. So it's all based on a feeling.
• 54:38
  Speaker 4: And then they literally said, that's all we need. We
• 54:40
  Speaker 4: don't need facts. We don't need empiricism. We don't need
• 54:45
  Speaker 4: logic or reason. We just need our feelings. It's all
• 54:47
  Speaker 4: we need to justify all of this condemnation, persecution, disenfranchisement
• 54:54
  Speaker 4: of men, a feeling. It just astounds me. And it
• 54:57
  Speaker 4: also astounds me. that they attempted to derive their oppression
• 55:01
  Speaker 4: using Marxist material analysis and failed. That's like deriving oppression
• 55:07
  Speaker 4: on easy mode.
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: But they are trying to materially benefit. They just couldn't
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: use the materialist analysis to enforce it.
• 55:16
  Speaker 3: No, no.
• 55:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah, but they couldn't. They used Marxist analysis, which is
• 55:20
  Speaker 4: almost made to find oppression, right? And they couldn't find it.
• 55:25
  Speaker 4: So it's like being given a... connect the dots drawing
• 55:28
  Speaker 4: with two dots and you can't do it. Right. It's
• 55:32
  Speaker 4: that ridiculous. And they didn't drop it. That's the moment
• 55:35
  Speaker 4: they should have said, you know, I think that our
• 55:37
  Speaker 4: feeling is not, it has no connection to reality. Maybe
• 55:44
  Speaker 4: we should just go back to our house houses, bake our,
• 55:49
  Speaker 4: lemon loaf and just enjoy the fact that we have
• 55:51
  Speaker 4: the most leisure and safety of any group of human
• 55:55
  Speaker 4: beings in all of human history. No, no, they just
• 55:58
  Speaker 4: kept on. They create a standpoint theory and it's ballooned
• 56:02
  Speaker 4: from there. Yeah.
• 56:04
  Speaker 3: Well, you know, Betty Friedan said in 1963 that, that
• 56:08
  Speaker 3: if you were baking your lemon loaf and, you know,
• 56:11
  Speaker 3: cleaning your house and looking after your kids and all
• 56:13
  Speaker 3: of that, that you were suffering a slow death of
• 56:16
  Speaker 3: mind and spirit and that you were living in a
• 56:19
  Speaker 3: comfortable concentration camp. And I think that, you know, that idea,
• 56:24
  Speaker 3: like she claimed at one point in that book, that's
• 56:27
  Speaker 3: the feminine mystique published in 63, that, that, you know,
• 56:31
  Speaker 3: that women were committing suicide there. you know, again, it
• 56:34
  Speaker 3: was sort of the Lindsay Clancy thing that because they
• 56:37
  Speaker 3: didn't have a sense of who they were, they didn't
• 56:39
  Speaker 3: have a self chosen purpose, that it was literally driving
• 56:43
  Speaker 3: women crazy, driving them into psychosis, they were committing suicide,
• 56:47
  Speaker 3: they were harming their children, all that sort of thing. And,
• 56:50
  Speaker 3: and women ran with it, because I agree with you
• 56:52
  Speaker 3: that it, you know, it felt right. Because women had, yes,
• 56:58
  Speaker 3: I think that's part of female nature, too. We do
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: tend to dwell in resentment, if we're not encouraged not to,
• 57:07
  Speaker 3: or indeed forced by social, cultural guardrails and incentives, not
• 57:15
  Speaker 3: to dwell in resentment.
• 57:16
  Speaker 4: Don't envy, don't gossip.
• 57:18
  Speaker 3: Exactly. Instead, focus on gratitude, focus on loving kindness, focus
• 57:23
  Speaker 3: on patience, self-restraint, modesty, et cetera, enjoy what you have,
• 57:28
  Speaker 3: and all those things that used to be part of
• 57:30
  Speaker 3: religious frameworks, et cetera. You know, once we threw out
• 57:33
  Speaker 3: all of that, we had Friedan saying, you know, this
• 57:36
  Speaker 3: is the reality that women are killing themselves because their
• 57:38
  Speaker 3: lives are so intolerable. And that became a really, really
• 57:42
  Speaker 3: attractive way of thinking about life for a whole bunch
• 57:45
  Speaker 3: of women, I think, you know, the victim ideology. And
• 57:49
  Speaker 3: when you have that victim ideology, you don't have to
• 57:52
  Speaker 3: take responsibility for anything. You're innocent. And you see everything
• 57:56
  Speaker 3: through that lens. You ruminate on, you know, all of
• 58:00
  Speaker 3: your troubles. You get together with other people who tell
• 58:02
  Speaker 3: about how, you know, they've experienced all these various forms
• 58:05
  Speaker 3: of discrimination and oppression. And you come to believe it.
• 58:10
  Speaker 3: And then you don't have to feel empathy for the
• 58:12
  Speaker 3: oppressor class. And what you feel is that you have
• 58:15
  Speaker 3: the right to take revenge on that class. And vengeance
• 58:19
  Speaker 3: is a very attractive term.
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: Idea.
• 58:22
  Speaker 3: I think for a lot of people, it appeals to
• 58:24
  Speaker 3: the worst of human nature, especially perhaps female nature. And yeah,
• 58:29
  Speaker 3: you don't, you don't have to have facts. And of
• 58:31
  Speaker 3: course they do present something that they claim are facts.
• 58:35
  Speaker 3: You know, you can find them on female websites or sorry,
• 58:38
  Speaker 3: feminist websites all over the place. You know, fake facts
• 58:43
  Speaker 3: about domestic violence, fake facts about violence against women and
• 58:48
  Speaker 3: you know, about rape and all of those things. If
• 58:50
  Speaker 3: you dig into the alleged studies that found those facts,
• 58:54
  Speaker 3: you can realize that there's all sorts of misinterpretations and
• 59:00
  Speaker 3: false numbers, etc. But nobody's interested because both men and
• 59:06
  Speaker 3: women find that idea of the woman victim really really
• 59:10
  Speaker 3: powerful and inspiring.
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
• 59:15
  Speaker 4: I've, at the risk of dumping like something, a concept
• 59:18
  Speaker 4: that's pretty big into, you know, the end of an interview,
• 59:23
  Speaker 4: but you talk about female nature and I actually have
• 59:27
  Speaker 4: been doing like a pattern analysis on how men and
• 59:33
  Speaker 4: women write in literature. And I discovered that they cluster
• 59:38
  Speaker 4: in two very distinct modalities. And the masculine modality, I
• 59:43
  Speaker 4: call it the operative modality, is about what happens when
• 59:48
  Speaker 4: I do this, diagnosing the mechanism, inputs to this machine,
• 59:53
  Speaker 4: what are the outputs, that kind of thing. It's very
• 59:55
  Speaker 4: focused on what happens in reality when you take this action,
• 59:59
  Speaker 4: what are the consequences? So it's like mechanistic systems kinds
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 4: of thinking. And when men are given a blank sheet
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 4: of paper and they are allowed to attend to anything
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 4: that draws their interest, they tend towards that. So they
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 4: tend towards systems, they tend towards processes, they tend towards
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 4: diagnosis and that kind of thing. When you do the
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 4: same for women, they tend towards relational web thinking and
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 4: What should I call the relational modality? And in some cases,
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 4: it could also be called the positional modality, but that's
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 4: another discussion. So the relational web modality is who is
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 4: in position related to everybody else. So what is your status?
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 4: who has affection and loyalty to whom, who is in
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 4: love with whom, who doesn't like, you know, all of
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 4: this kind of like social topography. So women are decoding
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 4: the world around them to try to develop a topological
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 4: map of the social system, the ecology of the relationships.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 4: And then, and the very, they're very, actually, from what
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 4: I've been finding, these are very, it And I don't
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 4: want to say extreme, but men very much tend to
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 4: fall in the operative camp and women tend to fall
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 4: in the relational web camp. And there are very few exceptions.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 4: And even when women are able to write operationally, they
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 4: don't sustain it for very long. Whereas men can also
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 4: write relationally, except it tends to terminate in an operation. Like,
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 4: for example, Licari's spy novels. you know, there's a lot
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 4: of decoding the situation, decoding the secret messages, decoding people's relationships,
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 4: but ultimately the end result is a conclusion about national security, right.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 4: Rather than whether or not Darcy is in love with Elizabeth. Okay.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 4: So there's this, like this strong difference between the two.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 4: And I think a lot of what we're seeing among
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 4: with human, with female behavior is explained by that. So
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 4: for example, Lindsay Clancy, who, If you're a relational web
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 4: thinker and your most important thing is where you are,
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 4: the position you occupy in the web, and that you
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 4: remain in it, the worst thing that can happen to
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 4: you is to be judged. Because that means you are
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 4: excluded from the relational web. So blamelessness is like a
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 4: currency to relational web thinkers. And that's exactly what we're
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 4: seeing with Lindsay Clancy. We're seeing women who are holding
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 4: their desire to be kept blameless and more important and
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 4: higher than a child's life. And it's, it's, it's disgusting,
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 4: but it really speaks to the fact that that is there.
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 4: They're seeing everything in terms of status, in terms of
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 4: belonging and status and not in terms of ethics and
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 4: moral systems.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 4: And I just, I just find that fascinating. I thought
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 4: you might know you do.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 3: Yes. Absolutely brilliant. I never thought you could get that
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 3: out of an analysis of literature, but it makes sense.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 3: And yeah, my last chapter in the book is, I
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 3: keep bringing it back to the book.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 4: That's exactly what we want.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 3: Everybody buy the book. No, buy it to give to
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 3: some normie friends. But that's exactly what I argue in
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 3: the final chapter about why we can't have a female
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 3: dominated civilization because women do not build civilizations. And this
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 3: is not to say that women don't play honorable subordinate
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 3: roles in building civilization. And there are those exceptions that do,
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 3: but in general, it's men who are system creators. Men
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 3: are the problem solvers. Men do create the universal standards.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 3: Men are interested in meritocratic competition to find solutions to issues.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 3: You know, men have... problem solving minds, they are the
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 3: ones that provide. And women do other things that are
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 3: extremely important. But they when women, you know, predominate in
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 3: any sphere of society, they tend to start thinking about relationships.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 3: And they start worrying about dominating them. Yes, yes, dominating them,
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 3: controlling them, making sure that nobody, no victim group feels excluded,
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 3: they're not as interested in you know, freedom of expression,
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 3: they're not as interested in free inquiry, they're not as
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 3: interested in problem solving at that larger level, they do
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 3: not create ethical, like objective ethical standards, they create systems
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 3: that monitor relationships, like there's, we do have a different nature,
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 3: women and men, and we need to be able to
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 3: honour what is good in each nature and how it
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 3: contributes to our civilization. And, you know, it's just obvious
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 3: that if it's all female, we're not going to have
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 3: a flourishing, innovative, rules-based society where we're not going to
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 3: have equality before the law. And we're not going to
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 3: have any of the things that made it possible for
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 3: Western societies to achieve what they achieved. And yeah, so
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 3: that it's a very serious problem that we need to address. Yes.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 3: Beautifully said, Alison, as always. I absolutely agree.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: I just wanted to tell you, so we've, we've gone
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: a little over an hour. Do you, do you have
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: any time.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: For a couple more questions or do you need to
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: take off?
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 3: I kind of need to take off. I have another,
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 3: an interview that I have to do with Tom this afternoon.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 3: We're interviewing a New Zealand researcher who's done a whole
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 3: bunch of research on, uh, false allegations. And so, unfortunately,
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 3: I have to go back.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's great.
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: No, but I'd be interested in bringing that person on
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: here as well.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: Might as well. Well, then I'll just.
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 3: I'll tell you about her. Yeah, her name is Felicity.
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 3: I think it's Felicity Goodyear-Smith, if I'm remembering her. Hope
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 3: I didn't get her name wrong. But yeah, she's fascinating.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 3: I didn't know that there was such a person working
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 3: in academia. She's in New Zealand and yeah, really doing
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 3: fantastic work.
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: Well, that's great. That's great.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: Well, then I'll just go ahead and wrap it up,
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: but I'll let Allison do the things real quick, and
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: then I'll take it from there.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 4: We do have some Super Chalice.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I know. I can read them, but I
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: think that they're like questions, and I know that Janice
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: has to go, so I don't want to take too
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: much time, but I'll read them really quick. Official Reverse
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: Trad gave us five and said, what is the best
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: response when people say Lindsay Clancy should be 100% held
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: responsible for her murderous But if other people could have
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: prevented this situation, they should have. I don't really like
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: that argument because it still seems to be rooted in
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: the same misinformation that her husband did something wrong that
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: other people are pushing to say she shouldn't be held
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: responsible at all.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 2: Well, the best.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: Response is that she is responsible for her actions because
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: she's an adult, full stop.
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: That's it.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: Like, you know, it's not cruelty to, justice is not cruelty.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: Richard Biaire gives us five and says, remember that Miss
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: Firestone said, of the Red Stockings Manifesto died alone in
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: her apartment, possibly from starvation, as she was in such
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: a state paranoia that she was unable to go outside
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: of her residence to even shop for food. There was
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: a network of women that did assist her in some tasks. However,
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: that dissolved after her psychiatrist moved away and the other
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: leaders of the network took ill.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: And then, thank you for that. And then Mr.
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: 0303 gave us five and said, I really appreciate Janice
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: and her work. She proved that the feminist ideas were
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: pretty much the same throughout history and all the waves
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: are more of a spectrum than distinct movements. Why do
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: you think this information has been forgotten about? Censorship, lack
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: of internet connectivity, or perhaps some form of gynocentrism thinking
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: or gynocentric thinking that women of the past were better
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: and hope that they can go back to that.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 3: Right. I think it's that, you know, we keep hoping
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 3: maybe we could get back to the reasonable feminism and
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 3: it's sad to think that there was no reasonable feminism.
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah yeah no it was it was bad from the start.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah rotten to the core that's my yeah from the
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 3: beginning okay so all right um yeah.
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 4: Go ahead all right so i do want to do
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 4: a thank you to okfs for putting in 250 to
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 4: the fundraiser.
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 4: And if you would, if you want to help out,
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 4: you can do so at feed the badger.com slash support.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 4: We are in our last day. So hopefully we'll be
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 4: able to, to finish that off. Once again, that's feed
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 4: the badger.com slash support. And if you want to send
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 4: a message, you want to address anything on the show,
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 4: you can do so at feed the badger.com slash just
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 4: the tip. And finally, if you want to join us
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 4: in our computer community, it's badger nation.online. All of these
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 4: options are in the low bar. And I want to
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 4: give a big thanks to Janice for, showing, uh, for,
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 4: for taking part in this, um, this conversation. And everybody,
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 4: buy her book. Please shill it again.
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the book is called The Goddess That Failed. I
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: do think it's a play on words of another book
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: called The God That Failed.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: Is that right?
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: Yes, it is. I don't know anything about that book,
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: but I'm assuming that's like a feminist book about men
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: or something.
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 3: No, that's actually a 1949 book by former communists. It
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 3: was published in 1949 and former communists reflecting on their
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 3: dissatisfactions and why they rejected communism.
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I see. I see.
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: So the book is called The Goddess That Failed, Feminism's
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: Unending War Against Men, Families, and Civilization Itself.
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: Apparently, it's easier to.
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: Get if you go to the United States version of Amazon.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: I guess the Canadian one, it's harder to find it
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: or something.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 2: Well, you can find it.
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 3: It won't be delivered. But I think I haven't heard
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 3: those same problems from people who've ordered from the U.S.
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: Well, there's that.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 3: There you go.
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: And yeah, so check out that book.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: Also, last thing about the Lindsay Clancy trial I wanted
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: to mention. Apparently the jury is majority women and they've
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: been deliberating for days.
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: They still don't have a verdict yet. So it's a
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: little concerning.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: Whatever comes out of this is definitely going to red
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: pill a lot more.
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 2: People, I think.
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: Because I'm worried that, first of all, it even took
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: this long or it's taking as long as it is.
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: to make a decision. So that makes me think that
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: it's not, it may not be as just like the
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: just decision ought to be, but, um, I'm going to
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: leave it at that. Anyway, thank you Janice again for
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: coming on the show. Thank you guys for watching. Uh,
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: if you guys liked this video, please hit like subscribe.
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: If you're not already subscribed to the belt notifications, leave
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: us a comment. Let us know what you guys think
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: about what we talked about on the show today. Thank
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: you again to Janice and for you guys for watching.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: And share the video because sharing is caring. Thanks so
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: much for coming on this episode of the Fireside Chat.
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: And we will talk to you guys in the next one.