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Discovering Bitcoin with Science · Discovering Bitcoin

0:00
At some point, Bitcoin stops being a chart and starts to
0:03
become a question. What is money?
0:07
Who do I trust? What do I trust?
0:10
Hard work doesn't answer those questions for you.
0:12
They just give you a clean, transparent way to explore them.
0:18
Yeah, I see the world through an entirely different lens.
0:22
It doesn't just give you confidence, but it gives you
0:25
hope. I think like we're squandering
0:28
our energy, our life force. So Bitcoin is changing that.
0:32
For me. It's like it's healing energy.
0:36
It gives you a kind of. Of a stand.
0:40
Feeling right? Well, deep and deep and deep and
0:46
the immortal. Words of the doors, the time to
0:49
hesitate us through. Science.
1:22
Hey. Hey, man.
1:23
Yeah, I'm doing good. Should I?
1:25
Should I speak French? No, no, I'm just, I'm just
1:29
taking the piss. Normally I, I open the podcast
1:33
with how's it going in a very thick Australian accent.
1:38
So I thought I might change it up and and try and meet you
1:42
where you are. That's very nice.
1:46
Thank you. You're welcome.
1:48
Thanks for coming on the pod, man.
1:49
I appreciate you giving up your time and find our energy to tell
1:54
us the tale of how you discovered Bitcoin.
1:55
I'm looking forward to it. All right.
2:00
Do you want me to start right now to explain you what's my
2:03
story with Bitcoin? Oh, you got to let me ask a
2:05
question first. I think that would be OK.
2:08
That would be more apropos. How did you discover Bitcoin?
2:16
That's a really tough question because I think like many other
2:20
Bitcoiners, I had the different opportunities to get in touch
2:25
with Bitcoin. But there's always a bit of time
2:29
before you understand or adopt Bitcoin, right?
2:35
So the very first time I think I got in touch with Bitcoin was
2:40
back in, I don't remember, maybe 2016, maybe 2015.
2:48
And it was just because to be honest, I was crafting web
2:52
designs for, you know, Counter Strike teams and stuff.
2:59
And sometimes they were asking to pay using Bitcoin because I
3:05
think back in the days Counter Strike competitions, they had
3:11
like the second, the second cash price was paid in Bitcoin
3:15
because Bitcoin was worthless for, for them.
3:19
So yeah, I was, I was doing web designs for, for these people.
3:24
And they were often asking if I wanted to be paid with Bitcoin,
3:29
which I systematically refused. And you will understand why,
3:34
because I think even before that, even before that, my
3:39
brother read an article on Bitcoin and asked me if I wanted
3:44
to help him. Because at this time I, I was, I
3:50
was, I was a geek and I was far more tech savvy, especially on
3:56
software than him. Him was a little bit more on
4:00
hardware, but he read this article about Bitcoin and stuff
4:05
and he wanted me to help him with the wallet because he
4:09
didn't understand private key, public key, Bitcoin core,
4:14
whatever. And my honest answer was it's a
4:19
scam. Why do you want to what do you
4:22
want to what do you want to deep dive into that?
4:24
That's shit use use PayPal. It's it's working.
4:30
Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
4:33
Why not? I mean, yeah, it works.
4:36
Probably probably the the worst day of my life, by the way,
4:40
Yeah, I should have listened to my brother.
4:42
That's OK, we we've all been there, speaking from a place of
4:46
unconscious ignorance. Exactly.
4:50
But yeah, yeah. And after this, I, I had these
4:53
experiences with websites and stuff.
4:56
Sometimes people were asking to pay using Bitcoin.
5:00
I systematically refused and well, you will have a good love.
5:06
But as many other big corners saying that I missed the train.
5:13
OK, I decided to get to get my interest.
5:20
I mean, I decided to to learn more about mining, right?
5:25
I thought you were going to say shit coins and I was like, that
5:28
makes sense as well. But.
5:31
Let me finish, bro. Let me finish.
5:34
Just just like someone who would think like, yeah, I missed the
5:39
train. So why?
5:40
Why should I be interested in Bitcoin miners?
5:43
There is this new stuff called Ethereum, right?
5:47
Oh yeah. Yeah, so I started a mining farm
5:53
with GP us and stuff early during the Ethereum, Yeah, after
6:01
Ethereum was released. So my understanding of
6:08
cryptography and monetary system and all of that was shit, right?
6:14
So we were mining with friends Ethereum, God forgive me.
6:20
And like few months later Ethereum had a bull run and we
6:27
made made a small X9 on the price.
6:30
I was so surprised of the price search that I decided to to sell
6:34
everything because for me it couldn't go above that.
6:37
It was so crazy. X9 for me was unbelievable.
6:43
So I decided to to stop here my adventure as a minor and after
6:49
that I saw that both Bitcoin and Ethereum was where like keep
6:56
increasing in price and I decided fuck, I really acted
7:00
dumb here, sold everything, stopping mining, etcetera.
7:05
So I didn't want to hear about Bitcoin, I didn't want to hear
7:08
about crypto, cryptocurrencies as well.
7:11
I decided I'm done with all that shit.
7:13
I don't want to hear about it anymore.
7:15
And I just, yeah, life go on, you know?
7:19
So I, I kept, I kept, I kept doing my stuff working and so on
7:28
until a very shocking and important event, which was
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COVID-19. So have you, have you, have you
7:41
noticed how COVID-19 help people understanding the problems,
7:46
naming the problems? I I didn't even know what that
7:50
was. There was some sort of global
7:55
attempt to corral individuals into doing stupid shit for like
8:01
a period of about two years. Was that, was that that thing
8:04
you're talking about? Yeah, yeah, that was retarded.
8:10
You're right. It did pull back the curtain.
8:13
And those of us who were curious perhaps beforehand were now
8:23
fully engaged with what's going on behind that curtain.
8:28
Well, what's happened, in fact, was that we were locked at home
8:34
with tons of time. So the, the plan, I, I, I think
8:38
like the plan was for some stupid governments, yeah, there
8:43
is a health risk. So we got to do that.
8:46
And for some other entities, maybe the goal was, yeah, we're
8:50
going to lock them up and they will have no options but to use
8:53
Netflix, Amazon and pay by card so we can profile them, keep
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track, understand better, collect data and prepare the
9:02
world of tomorrow. Something like that.
9:04
I'm not sure I'm right, but something around these lines.
9:07
But unfortunately, a lot of people, especially the people
9:11
that are curious, as you mentioned, or people that are a
9:13
little bit defiant against authority, I guess, had a ton of
9:18
time to deep dive and understand the situation, health situation,
9:28
economic situation, all of that. And the global narratives such
9:32
as CO2, the fact that the government thinks to actually
9:38
lock us up. This is a big deal.
9:42
And on my end, I was like studying tons of stuff.
9:47
And I found out that if you look at things during COVID-19
9:54
through, through the, yeah, you know, the plague and Earth
10:02
shades, something doesn't add up, something doesn't work,
10:05
something is off. And then I discovered that if
10:08
you look at things with economical or monetary shades,
10:13
glasses, things start to make sense.
10:17
In France for example, during the COVID-19 period lockdown,
10:22
you were you you. You were not authorized to to go
10:27
out of course, but you was. Also you were also forced to pay
10:36
by card because cash was a pathogen transmitter.
10:41
So that was weird. OK then I I found out by digging
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up that Oh my God, during the lockdown they closed 15% of the
10:55
AT Ms. on the territory. What the fuck is going on?
11:00
And everything was really related to money and economics,
11:04
in fact, and printing money as well.
11:08
So this pushed me to dig in all these topics I discovered like,
11:13
you know, Neo in the Matrix. I, I was kind of obsessed how to
11:17
get out of this situation. I need to breathe.
11:20
And I found out about the money. I found out about the usury.
11:25
I found out about money dilution, I found out about
11:30
central banking, money printing, all of that.
11:34
And suddenly I, I, I got in, I got in touch again with Bitcoin
11:42
and this time not by the, you know, the geeky way, not by the
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number go up and hope to make a profit way.
11:53
I got in touch this time in a political way, let's say it like
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that, like it was an element, part of a solution that could
12:04
lead to more liberty, more freedom, and one of the keys to
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go out of this matrix, to go out of this nightmare.
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So I can definitely tell you, man, COVID-19 was probably the
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moment I got really in touch with the deep connection with
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the Bitcoin subject, with the Bitcoin topic in depth, in depth
12:31
and not just number go up or you know, technical geeky stuff that
12:37
are funny. No, no, no, no.
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Started with politics and then monetary and then how it works
12:44
technically. So that's about it.
12:48
And I mean during this period I was also, I lost my business.
12:55
I, I didn't have any more business because of COVID-19.
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So no cash flow. But the money I had, I decided
13:04
to put our lead on Bitcoin again, not in the perspective of
13:10
profit, but in the perspective of, OK, what if the lockdowns
13:15
and stuff are being eternal? What if you need to run away
13:19
from your country? What if you need to, I don't
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know, like take a boat, run away, whatever.
13:29
And I found out that Bitcoin was probably one of the best
13:32
solution for that. So yes, this was exactly the
13:35
story how I discovered Bitcoin in depth and how I decided to
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adopt it as a lifestyle and not as a gimmick and not as
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speculative option vehicle. That that's extraordinary, dude.
13:54
Like the fact that you yeah, COVID-19 obviously was a
13:59
catalyst for a lot of people all around the world to discover a
14:04
whole bunch of things. And what I've noticed is a not
14:09
to toot our own horns here. And I certainly, you know, I
14:14
don't want to do that, but I feel like a lot of people got
14:17
politicized super hardcore and, you know, went down the liberty
14:24
route without, with by and completely missing economics as
14:30
as sort of like a key or a cornerstone of a lot of the, the
14:36
problems that they were attempting to solve.
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And then there's a cohort of individuals who, you know,
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discovered Bitcoin in amongst that that process and kind of
14:48
put all the pieces of the puzzle together.
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It's almost like everything interlocks once you you put on
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those Bitcoin shades and, and you could just see everything
15:00
that much more clearly. The balls though, to take all of
15:05
your money and put it in as Bitcoin.
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It was not that much to be honest, but it was like, OK, if
15:14
shit, if shit is the fan, OK, No, no, yeah, First it was if it
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if shit is the fan, I can run away with my money with, with
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something, right. I will not be blocked by banks.
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I will not be blocked because they don't want us to use cash
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anymore, etcetera. So it was that and then it was
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OK from now Bitcoin is my bank account.
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It doesn't mean that I'm going to stack, stack, stack.
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It means that they can use Bitcoin for saving and for
15:43
paying. Yeah.
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And and I think it's a different approach for a lot from a lot of
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people that are only thinking about either number go up,
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either it's my store value. No, I didn't care about that.
15:56
It was, it was a medium to be sovereign and to spend this
16:02
money as well freely. How did you figure out like, OK,
16:09
so you're, you're, you're using you've you've made a conscious
16:12
decision to use Bitcoin as a bank, as a bank account
16:17
effectively simply because you didn't want to be in a position
16:20
where, yeah, that makes complete logical, rational sense that you
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don't want anything you don't want to be at the behest of, of
16:29
an institution or a third party. What was the in practical terms,
16:35
what was that like? Because you effectively you got,
16:37
there was a meme going around for a little while there a few
16:40
few years ago. Get on 0 rather than get off 0.
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And it was all about, you know, taking all of your Fiat, putting
16:49
it into Bitcoin and literally, yeah, as you said, living the
16:55
Bitcoin lifestyle, living an economic lifestyle on a, on a
17:00
Bitcoin standard. What what was that practically?
17:04
Was it a little more difficult to sort of transact with certain
17:10
people? Like how did you, how did, how
17:12
did that play out? I mean, when you have no
17:17
options, you find solutions in general.
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That's all I have to say about it because if you, if you decide
17:23
to live on a Bitcoin standard, you have products and services
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that can help when you when you can't effectively pay with
17:30
Bitcoin, whether it's on trade or lightning or whatever.
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But sometimes you need to use mediums to trust, I don't know,
17:36
like gift cards, you know all about all about it, but you can
17:41
also trade, you can also trade P2P and you can get cash
17:44
whenever you want. I mean Bitcoin now, I mean, OK,
17:52
during COVID-19 it was different, but nowadays,
17:54
nowadays in 2026, I think everyone understands the value
17:57
of Bitcoin, understands or understand that Bitcoin has
18:01
value at least. And you will always find someone
18:03
to, to buy some. Another thing that I want to add
18:07
is that it's completely stupid to say, OK, I'm going to spend
18:12
my cash and I'm going to put my extra on Bitcoin.
18:15
No, I'm joking, it's not completely stupid.
18:18
I mean, it's a good strategy, but I mean, people will say,
18:23
hey, why, Why would I spend my Bitcoin when I can spend my
18:28
cash, which, which is worthless. OK, OK, understand.
18:32
But if you, if you wrap your head your, your head around it,
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the cost opportunity is exactly the same whether you use your
18:42
Fiat to buy something or you spend your Bitcoin.
18:47
Well, it's the same. It's, it's the same as
18:49
opportunity cost. It's exactly the same.
18:52
The money you are spending in Fiat is not used to stack
18:55
Bitcoin. And if you have everything in
18:57
Bitcoin, the the Bitcoin you are selling is something that goes
19:00
out of your stack. Right, right.
19:02
So. So, so to me, the whole
19:05
narrative about OK, but Bitcoin is my store value is pure
19:10
bullshit and probably, probably a an intermediary, an
19:14
intermediary step necessary. But if you think about it long
19:19
enough, it's just useless. The opportunity cost is the
19:23
same. And in terms of consequences,
19:26
since you're asking, well, when it's more difficult to spend
19:30
because it is more difficult to spend as well.
19:34
I say that you, when you need, you find solution, but it
19:36
creates another side effect. When you start, when you start
19:40
living on a Bitcoin standard with the most scarce currency of
19:46
the universe, you start spending less also because it's, it's
19:52
tougher to to spend, it's it's less convenient, but you start
19:56
spending less because what I told you about the opportunity
20:00
cost of cash in Bitcoin is the same if you live on a Bitcoin
20:03
standard. Well, it means that if I spend
20:06
too much, or if I spend on things that I don't need, or
20:09
that I just want but I don't need.
20:12
All that are shitty Chinese stuff that you can that that you
20:16
have to throw away and buy another one next month.
20:20
You you you stop thinking twice when you need to buy something
20:25
you will have to consider do I really need it?
20:29
Is is it going to make a change in my life?
20:33
My car just stopped working. Can I repair it or should I buy
20:37
another one? When you start having a
20:40
different way to approach expenses, expenses will be
20:45
either necessity, either investment.
20:48
And I'm not talking about investment for profit.
20:50
I'm talking about investment for your life and your business.
20:54
Like do I need a car or can I work?
20:56
No, I need a car. I'm working too far away from
21:00
home. I need a car, so I will have to
21:01
make this purchase. And when you are, when you don't
21:05
live in a Bitcoin standard, obviously reasonable person
21:10
would think the same. But in fact, we can see it
21:13
everyday we are flooded with marketing, with the social
21:18
pressure and all that stuff that make you spend your worthless
21:21
paper on whatever. Anyways, it's losing value.
21:26
I should, I should get rid of that shit.
21:29
And yeah, I think it's one of the most impressive side effects
21:34
is that I get probably less money at this time than before
21:40
when I had my own business and it was working well and it
21:43
stopped because of COVID. But with less money, I was also
21:48
spending so much more smartly and it changed everything.
21:53
Because when you think about it, if the more we are living on a
21:57
Bitcoin standard and seeing life differently, wanting to buy for
22:03
actual need one thing to buy actual quality that will last in
22:07
time. Well, you solve both the problem
22:11
of the environment, right ecology, because you will
22:16
consume less and better. And you also solve the problem
22:21
of capitalism and, yeah, a crony capitalism, because you will
22:27
only purchase. You will only purchase and spend
22:31
on things that matter and that correspond to a concrete need
22:34
that is solved. You know what I mean?
22:37
Yeah, I do, I do. I guess it depends on, on, well,
22:43
it depends on what you know you, what your value preferences is.
22:47
I mean, it's, it's all subjective value.
22:50
There's certain things that I wish I didn't have to spend
22:53
money on, but have to because life circumstances and and that
23:00
all you know in entails from I guess decisions made earlier in
23:09
the past, etcetera. Yeah, of course, of course,
23:12
brother. But I I think like it, It's,
23:14
it's, it changes, it changes the way you see expenses in general.
23:19
It's more about. There's a lot of people spend a
23:22
lot of shit, you know? Yeah.
23:24
Yeah, exactly. They buy a lot of shit and they
23:26
fill their life with a lot of shit and and things and drink
23:29
it. Bitcoin doesn't announce itself.
23:32
It reveals itself. Not in the moment you buy, but
23:35
in the moment you stop thinking of it as a trade, start sensing
23:39
it as a discovery. This episode is supported by
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24:24
It makes me think about the gold standard, all right.
24:28
In Europe, back in the days, during the old regime and stuff,
24:33
you had amazing pieces of history, you had amazing
24:38
churches, you had amazing urban, urban architecture, etcetera.
24:45
Why? Because when the money is scarce
24:49
and hard, you need to provide quality, something that lasts in
24:54
time, something so valuable people are ready to get rid of
24:59
their gold to buy your stuff. OK, so on the Bitcoin standard
25:05
is the same. Since you change, since you
25:08
shift the way you are thinking about expenses, it forces
25:14
companies, builders and everyone to create quality.
25:20
So I I I think. Yes.
25:22
Yes, OK, but you're already convinced anyway, Bitcoin is is
25:25
an amazing way is an amazing tool that fixes so many
25:29
problems. You know, that's, that's crazy.
25:32
It's the, it's the quality aspect that you mentioned that's
25:37
I think a really under represented point in this whole
25:42
space. You know, we, we used to build
25:45
things that lasted. We used to create detail in
25:49
buildings that didn't really matter.
25:50
They didn't really add anything other than it just looked good.
25:53
It looked beautiful. It had an aesthetic touch.
25:57
It didn't really have a function, but it had a form and
26:01
we've lost that. I don't know, you know, I'm sure
26:05
it's the same sort of deal over in Europe, but they, the, the
26:10
buildings nowadays, we've had this conversation a few times on
26:12
the pod where they're just, they're prefab.
26:16
Chuck them up as quickly as you possibly can, put a mixed-use,
26:20
you know, coffee shop or something like that, trying to
26:23
impose culture into the building rather than let it emerge
26:26
naturally. And it's just impossible to do.
26:30
But that's what you get. That's the logic of Fiat.
26:32
The logic of Fiat is imposing shit on things that ought not to
26:38
be there, basically. I mean, it's quite literally the
26:41
definition. Let it be done.
26:43
I think, I think it's multifactorial, but Fiat
26:47
definitely has a huge share of the cake.
26:51
Now interestingly, if you look at if you look at yeah, the
26:54
government has also a big share of the cake because government
26:59
spending will be all about function and making people
27:03
believe they are spending money for the good, etcetera.
27:06
But they will not produce beautiful and something
27:11
interesting in the shift of minds also connected with
27:14
Bitcoin. I don't know why I'm I'm talking
27:16
about that right now. I'm just going with the flow.
27:18
But if you, if you're looking with, if you're looking at Naib
27:22
Bukele, President El Salvador, highly, I would say highly
27:28
inspired by medieval European kings in a way.
27:35
And also a Bitcoiner, whether we like him or not, whether we like
27:40
the idea of imposing Bitcoin as a legal tender or not, But he
27:45
has this, OK, he has this legacy, he has this, these
27:50
inspirations. And as you can see, we're not
27:52
right now. He's creating beautiful
27:55
buildings, beautiful places, beautiful church, beautiful
27:59
cathedrals and whatever whatsoever.
28:02
And the idea is to create beauty.
28:06
The idea is to create things that will last for your sons.
28:09
The stance of your stance and the stance of your stance of
28:11
your stance. So all of this is our things
28:14
that you start thinking of after deep diving in the Bitcoin
28:20
rabbit hole. Because as as far as I can tell,
28:24
I grew up at the public school Republic of France and all of
28:32
that. And what what they are pushing
28:35
as a narrative is you don't care about the future, just consume
28:41
the earth is fucked anyway. The earth will burn human is the
28:44
problem. You should not make children
28:46
etcetera, etcetera. So be understanding Bitcoin hard
28:52
money and all of that is also solving this problem.
28:56
I mean, you stop thinking totally differently than before
29:04
when you were when you was like educated by public school and
29:09
Fiat system. Fiat system is actually a black
29:12
pill. Youth people, young people
29:16
nowadays thinks that the earth will burn because of humans,
29:20
that we should stop doing children, that's nothing
29:24
matters. And that you can spend all your
29:26
money on bullshit because why would you?
29:28
Why? Why would you want to have
29:31
savings and stuff if earth going to die?
29:33
If you don't want children, you don't want to transmit anything.
29:37
So it's a death mentality. And I figured out that, yeah, my
29:43
discovery of Bitcoin was also my, my real discovery of
29:47
something really normal, of the will of creating beauty, of the
29:52
will to transmit, of the will to make children, of the will to be
29:58
the change you want to see outside.
30:02
Most definitely, man. And having that will is super
30:07
underrated and it's what we're all going to need to cultivate
30:11
moving forward. Because if you have compute that
30:16
does a lot of, you know, repetitive administrative cyclic
30:22
tasks, and you don't need to really think too much about
30:26
that, you could outsource all of that.
30:27
Like, the more you outsource your brain, the less quality
30:31
life you're going to have. And OK, you might free up some
30:35
spare time. Cool.
30:36
What are you going to do with that spare time?
30:38
Well, you really ought to be in, you know, entertaining, so to
30:45
speak, your curiosity, cultivating your will to push
30:50
forward, to improve, to add value, to create things of value
30:55
and quality for yourself and those around you.
30:59
And really the only way to do that is with Bitcoin.
31:03
It's it's, it's not even a contest anymore.
31:08
Well, I think what you're mentioning also refer to AI,
31:12
because today with AI, anybody can be replaced.
31:16
So, so to speak, anybody can work to replace a whole sector.
31:22
But there is also a trap. I mean, when you have the power
31:28
to do whatever you want, technically you need to choose.
31:32
You need to select what you will be spending time on to and this
31:37
is not something we are used to. So it's very difficult because
31:41
you can be sort of productive without being productive.
31:46
To be to be really productive, you need to focus on one thing
31:49
and achieve it. But when you have tools, let's
31:54
say digital abundancy, like AI, you need to have goals.
32:01
And what Bitcoin helps with is that it makes the game easy.
32:05
The game is so easy. Before understanding Bitcoin,
32:08
the game was so, so tough. What should I do?
32:12
What is the goal in life now? You know the goal in life is to
32:15
have as much Bitcoin as possible and to transmit it to your
32:18
children, right? So maybe maybe a fix to digital
32:25
abundance and the fact that people don't know what to do
32:28
anymore because of AI is putting Bitcoin in the loop.
32:32
OK, I can do whatever I want. I can do entertaining stuff, of
32:36
course, but if I need to be productive, what's the goal?
32:39
The goal is to earn Bitcoin. The goal is to earn as much
32:42
Bitcoin as possible. AI is digital abundancy.
32:46
Bitcoin is digital scarcity. So you can catalyze, catalyze
32:54
your activity and the fact that you use AI to improve your
33:00
productivity with one goal in mind, actually several, but it's
33:04
simplified. But the goal is to earn Bitcoin.
33:08
And by the way, hello. But nowadays with AI and
33:14
Bitcoin, there is no obstacle anymore to business, to
33:19
entrepreneurship. Anybody unhurt can create a
33:23
proof of concept and try it using Bitcoin in alpha day.
33:28
I would say maybe one day you you can create a product and you
33:33
can sell it with the BTCP server or with Phoenix D or whatever.
33:38
And like you even have a social layer on top of Bitcoin, meaning
33:42
that if you create a service or a product, Bitcoin only or a
33:48
POC, a point of a proof of concept, accepting Bitcoin,
33:53
etcetera, you will have a first batch of population.
33:56
You will have a first community to present your product too,
34:00
because they will just pay attention for two minutes since
34:06
you you accept Bitcoin. So if, if, if what you offer
34:10
isn't shit, you will have a first, say, cluster of people
34:16
that will be OK to try or to feedback you on your product.
34:20
That means fucking possibility to create a product in six hours
34:27
from AI production to Bitcoin monetization.
34:30
And this is incredible. I, I, I think we should all
34:34
experiment that, experiment with that and with our kids too.
34:40
There is no obstacle to entrepreneurship anymore and
34:44
there is no, there are no excuse.
34:45
You can do it with the computer and Internet connection wherever
34:49
you are in the world, in Africa, so says Asia, South America, it
34:53
doesn't matter. You can do it and you can try it
34:57
and you don't even need the approval from a bank or from a
35:00
government. Yeah, the the path to market is
35:06
so much quicker now you just have to make sure your idea is
35:10
any good. But you'll, you'll find out as
35:11
you said, particularly in that social layer, when you have a,
35:14
an audience cultivated on a platform like or a protocol
35:18
rather like Nosta, you'll get instant feedback.
35:23
You know, in, in whatever form, whatever guys that that may be
35:28
well. No stuff for sure, but I mean,
35:31
even Bitcoin, if you're doing, I'm going to say bullshit, OK.
35:34
But if you are doing, if your patient in life is doing
35:37
chocolate or if he's doing whole sources, OK, you can create a
35:42
website and a service in a few hours and integrate the Bitcoin
35:46
payments and present your product to the Bitcoin community
35:50
on Twitter, on Noster, wherever you want and you will have a
35:55
wider attention span just because you created your company
35:58
on a Bitcoin standard. Bitcoiners will pay attention.
36:02
If your product is shit, they will not buy it, of course.
36:05
But you have yeah, you have a cluster of people to test your
36:11
your product. And this is so fucking valuable.
36:14
It is a very underestimated aspect of Bitcoin, the social
36:18
layer man. That's exactly right.
36:24
Yeah. It's insane.
36:25
It's insane. And and you just got to have the
36:27
will, if you have the will to pursue your idea and to flush it
36:32
out and to deliver it in its first iteration, the world's
36:37
your oyster effectively. You know, you just got to, I
36:42
mean, some people got to get over a time scarcity hump with
36:45
respect to obligations and things.
36:49
I can, I can give you an example.
36:51
I can give you an example, man. But it was even before AI.
36:55
It's, it's even better now. But I was, I was visiting West
36:59
Africa, I think in 20332023, sorry.
37:04
And I met someone he was enthusiastic about Bitcoin in a
37:08
Bitcoin meet up and he was he was selling fruits on the
37:12
market. He was also exporting fruits in
37:14
Europe, OK, but so many intermediaries for the logistic,
37:19
but also for the payments, because it's not easy at all to
37:22
access payments. OK, so that means he was not
37:26
doing any money, but he was doing it still and OK.
37:32
So I explained him to how to create a web shop and how to
37:37
talk to the Bitcoin community. So he sold mangoes to to
37:42
European Bitcoiners. He surely had still a lot of
37:46
intermediaries for the logistic, but he could accept payments
37:50
direct from the customer, OK and with far better margin because
37:57
with no intermediaries. So it's definitely something
38:00
amazing. And I think if you have a
38:02
digital product, even in Africa with AI and Bitcoin, I'm, I'm, I
38:07
swear to God, in one afternoon you can launch your idea and
38:10
start selling. It's amazing, man.
38:13
What a time to be alive. Oh, it's nuts.
38:16
It's nuts. Has discovering Bitcoin changed
38:21
you? I don't know if Bitcoin changes
38:28
you. I mean, maybe just reveal how
38:31
you deeply are inside. Maybe, maybe who you thought you
38:35
were before Bitcoin was just a construction of manipulation
38:41
from public school, from the Fiat system, from the food you
38:45
were eating from, I don't know, big distribution, Walmart and
38:52
Disney and Netflix and whatsoever.
38:56
OK, maybe Bitcoin changes your mind, changes the way you see
39:00
life through economics first. And then you discover that all
39:04
of this is shit. And why should I, should I not
39:08
listen to who I am, who I really am?
39:11
I think I'm a lot closer right now the, the I'm a lot closer to
39:16
when I was a kid right now, to who I was before the COVID-19.
39:22
Yeah, wow. OK, I think that listening to
39:26
who I am, yeah, man, that's, that's profound.
39:31
OK, let's frame it differently. We we can say finally that
39:37
Bitcoin is fuck your money since the first satoshi.
39:40
When you know that you're the master of let's say your cash,
39:45
but also your savings. Nobody can cancel you, nobody
39:50
can do anything. You start the life differently
39:53
and then you get distress off the table and you start being
39:58
yourself. I don't know, maybe I'm crazy.
40:00
Why? What do you think?
40:01
I don't think so, man. I think you're absolutely right.
40:03
I think what it does is it because you have that firm
40:06
foundation to stand on and it is, it's fuck you money.
40:09
And if you're not going to, if you, if you find yourself in a
40:12
pickle or a situation in which you need to say fuck you, well,
40:18
you can, you can. And so from that point of view,
40:21
it sort of takes that burden off and again, going back to that
40:26
cultivating of will, but also enthusiasm.
40:30
As a child, you have such enthusiasm for the world, for
40:33
exploring the world around you, not necessarily, you know, the
40:37
consciousness isn't quite there yet for exploring, you know,
40:40
within, but but the the outside world.
40:44
And just to sort of see what if you push this, what happens if
40:48
you poke that, what happens? And just that general sense of
40:52
enthusiasm is, is pervasive in a child and a lot of adults have
40:58
that sort of squeezed out of them.
41:02
And the, the fact of the matter is enthusiasm is an incredible
41:06
fertilizer and it helps things to grow.
41:10
When you approach things with enthusiasm and will and you are
41:16
willing to, you know, improve and improve your competency and
41:22
your skills, you can achieve anything with enthusiasm.
41:26
And so from that point of view, I like the fact that you've kind
41:30
of reverted like you're still you as a, as a quote, UN quote,
41:34
adult, but you seem to have rediscovered your general sense
41:39
of enthusiasm for life and the universe and everything.
41:44
Yeah, but the magic, the magic, the magic, the magic of life,
41:48
right? The.
41:49
Magic. It's it is magic. 100% it's
41:51
magic that. Is I see.
41:54
Priceless. I see now the, the, the
42:01
chronology of my life looks like a bell curve.
42:06
You know, the bell curve like I stand out nearly at the same
42:12
height. I at the same place where I was
42:14
when I was a kid. And I feel better like that.
42:17
So in fact, life is all about finding out that you need to
42:21
become a kid again, OK, with more skills, more patience, more
42:25
knowledge, more wisdom, of course, but everything else is
42:29
the same. Anyways, one thing is really
42:35
important. We mentioned AI and Bitcoin and
42:39
I think like just imagine how awful, how awful and Blackbeard
42:44
it is to be in a world with AI. Anybody can replace you, Anybody
42:50
can do anybody. You are in competition with
42:55
machine. It's it's tough and your money
42:59
is melting. What the fuck?
43:01
Your life is shit. If you don't have Bitcoin at the
43:05
AI era, you're probably about to be extinct.
43:11
Man, that is a massive black pill, and there's people out
43:16
there taking it currently and they'll do appeals to authority
43:20
and appeals to government. You need to give us Ubi.
43:23
You need to do this, that and the other, and print to print,
43:26
print us all the hell, print us under the path of the road to
43:29
serfdom. And you know, there are genuine
43:34
people out there that think that that is a solution.
43:38
Yeah. It's the downstream effects of
43:41
that thought that frightens me a little.
43:45
You know, with respect to if you've, if you've been a curious
43:51
enough person and you've discovered Bitcoin by now or
43:54
you're on your way to discovering it, you're going to
43:57
have a huge advantage. But is there going to be
44:02
resentment? Is there going to be ire
44:05
directed at Bitcoiners all around the world?
44:11
For for sure, 100 percent, 100%. And do you have a any ideas or
44:18
thoughts on how to mitigate, quell, not necessarily stop that
44:26
kind of behaviour? Yeah, I only God has but one
44:34
thing I can tell you. OK, let me, let me just think
44:38
about it to, to frame it correctly, OK?
44:47
The our truth is, forget about lobbying with governments.
44:52
That's the first thing. There is no way to lobby.
44:56
There is no way to lobby. The governance decision are
44:59
already taken. Democracy is all smokes, all
45:04
smoke and mirrors and that's it. So you, you would better, you'd
45:09
better understand that you're exactly like the Jedi's who were
45:14
haunted down and killed 1 by 1 by the thief and the Empire.
45:19
They were by the way they were doing themselves their own self
45:23
custody wallets using crystals, the so-called light sabers,
45:27
right? You'd better understand that
45:31
you're exactly like the Knights of the Round Table under King
45:34
Arthur, who were also chased and eliminated 1 by 1.
45:41
Archer had his lightsaber, by the way, Excalibur and they and
45:47
they were all sticking the truth and the Holy Grail.
45:49
The Holy Grail was just like Bitcoin, healing, infinite
45:53
sustenance, eternal use, spiritual blessing.
45:58
You know what I mean? So Bitcoiners got to know we got
46:03
to be honest to beat corners. You are the new Jeddahs and the
46:07
new Knights of the Round Table. You are fighting for a world of
46:11
eternal abundancy. And yes, we are at war, but
46:16
equipped with our lightsabers and in a quest for promoting the
46:20
Holy Grail, hopefully we're going to win.
46:23
So I, I would be, I would be a liar if I, if I say stay safe, I
46:30
prefer to say keep fighting. Andy Yeah.
46:35
Meet them where they are and what is it?
46:39
Hearts and minds. Sorry, come again?
46:45
Is it hearts and minds? Do we need to just, you know, I
46:47
mean, from my perspective, Bitcoin education, Bitcoin
46:51
content, it's, it's pretty, it's pretty, it's had its day almost.
46:58
It's almost like retail's tapped out.
46:59
They don't care. They need to see that number go
47:02
up before they're going to start, you know, or, or it's
47:04
just going to, it's like safer, Dean says.
47:07
It's like gunpowder. It's just going to land on your
47:09
door one day and you're going to have to make a decision.
47:13
Yeah, I think, I think like I, I explained you my several
47:18
discoveries of Bitcoin and I think there is OK.
47:23
A few people are lucky enough the first time they hear about
47:26
it, they understand it well and stuff.
47:28
But it's like 111 person or even less.
47:34
You need to be confronted to Bitcoin several times by
47:37
different angles, OK, to understand it and have a chance
47:41
to wrap your head around it and then have a chance to adopt it.
47:47
So Bitcoin education sure is very important.
47:50
But I would say that also it needs to be infiltrated, infused
47:55
in other type of content. For example, I, I, I have a
47:58
podcast. My podcast isn't about Bitcoin
48:01
at all. We're talking to expatriates and
48:05
entrepreneurs and free speech advocates and we are often
48:09
talking about Bitcoin too. We have a pretty good audience.
48:13
This is Lebanka. Le Bunker, yeah.
48:17
Nice, I have tried to watch episodes but you guys speak
48:21
French so I just don't understand what the fuck you're
48:23
talking about. Actually with YouTube you can
48:27
listen to it in English but I don't think it's very high
48:30
quality. Hopefully AI will fix this soon.
48:33
I don't know, but what I got to say is that we have thousands of
48:37
followers and we know for sure a bunch of them still like a
48:42
decent amount of them got interested into Bitcoin or
48:46
became Bitcoiners because we were infusing Bitcoin knowledge
48:53
into non Bitcoin content and this is really important as
48:57
well. Most definitely.
49:01
By the way, so on my on my small rant earlier on the fact that we
49:08
are on a fight, yes, we are on the fight.
49:09
Guys, let's be a realistic 2 minutes.
49:13
There is no way out. There is no way out.
49:15
Like Neo searching for a way. No, no, there is no way out.
49:18
There is no freedom. The end of the nation states
49:21
will come with aggression, coordination, control, tracking
49:25
and coefficient just like during the COVID-19.
49:28
So stay mobile, stay responsible.
49:31
Freedom is due as an individual, not the land occupied by nation
49:36
states. The only way to resist, in my
49:38
opinion, the deep state is let's say a united network state of
49:45
sovereign individuals. Bitcoin is part of the solution,
49:47
but it's not all the solution is is an element, right?
49:51
I see our I see ourselves like you know, in matrix when they
49:57
hide, they hide in the tunnels of science by by shutting down
50:04
the motor, you know when the when the octopuses are searching
50:08
for them. So we have we have different
50:11
tools, we have encryption, BGP chats, privacy tools, Bitcoin
50:17
and so and censorable tools. And this is the toolbox of the
50:22
resistance and we also need to have a regular life and we also
50:28
need to distillate Bitcoin knowledge in normal contents in
50:32
order to succeed. Quick break just to say, if
50:35
you're enjoying the show and digging what you hear, please
50:38
consider supporting discovering Bitcoin by shooting, boosting,
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50:44
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50:58
Alternatively, if you want to ZAP me direct via lightning
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51:07
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51:12
Thank you for listening and thank you for your support.
51:16
This is the thing. It's the framing.
51:18
You just got to incept it in the background.
51:20
It's, it's been a thought of mine for a long time where any
51:24
kind of, you know, Bitcoin conferences, it's going to
51:28
attract a very niche set of individuals.
51:30
Whereas a party, a festival, something going on which isn't
51:37
about Bitcoin directly, but it's happening in the background
51:41
somewhere. It's just facilitating payments.
51:43
There's a little bit of education where people are kind
51:46
of learning by doing, you know, it's the whole show don't tell
51:49
method. And it's like you get a group of
51:52
individuals who are interested in a particular thing, music or
51:56
sport or whatever it is. But then in the background is
51:59
this payment method, which it just works.
52:03
It's quicker, it's easier. The merchants payless, the the
52:08
customers payless because they might be getting a discount by
52:11
paying a Bitcoin or whatever. And then there's some education
52:15
that could happen on the side with a pamphlet or a booklet or
52:19
a booth where individuals can sit down and have a chat,
52:22
whatever. But it's that whole like, rather
52:26
than talking directly about Bitcoin to people, because let's
52:30
face it, most people don't particularly want to talk about
52:34
money, whether it's Bitcoin or Fiat.
52:37
They just want to have a good time basically.
52:43
In my opinion, in my opinion, the, the, the way is like you,
52:47
you should, you shouldn't speak technical, You shouldn't speak
52:52
no what you should do. There are two ways in my opinion
52:56
to successfully arrange people. You need to make them come at
53:00
you. That's the first way.
53:02
Make them come at you. Meaning if you're doing a talk
53:05
or whatever, you need to send them, you need to sell them
53:09
emotions, great idea, emotions and a way out.
53:14
And then they will come and asking.
53:17
This is the first thing. If you if you spam someone
53:20
else's brain with information that are not asked by him,
53:26
right, he will he will not be interested.
53:29
You need to sell him emotions and have him asking have have
53:33
him asking stuff. OK, that's the first point.
53:36
The second point is you cannot do that in a big festival or
53:40
whatever, but in small meetups you can do it.
53:43
I actually did it with success. You force them, you force
53:46
people. You invite people that are not
53:48
into Bitcoin and you tell them, OK, if you want to pay at the
53:51
bar, if you want to have something to eat, you can only
53:54
pay with Bitcoin. Oh boy, I don't have Bitcoin.
53:57
OK, you, you have cash, then your mission will be to talk
54:02
with the Bitcoiner in the room, buy Bitcoin from him with your
54:05
cash and spend at the bar. We're going to help you.
54:09
It works really well because instead of explaining him, you
54:13
forced him to practice. And by practising it, his body
54:18
printed in his mind that it was so easy.
54:21
Man, I, I want to learn more. Can I ask more?
54:24
Of course I can ask more. I was in contact with Bitcoiners
54:27
the whole night. So yeah, to me, that's the
54:32
that's the two techniques. If you are doing talk, tell them
54:36
ideas, get them to ask you stuff.
54:39
If you are doing meet ups and communitary event, just force
54:43
people, force people to use Bitcoin.
54:46
There is no there is no card, there is no cash accepted here.
54:49
Only Bitcoin. You have cash, buy it from
54:52
someone you you're going to see it's easy.
54:55
It's such a cool idea, it really is.
54:57
There's a, there's a concept that Steiner talks about which
55:01
in particularly for young children in their education, or
55:05
they talk about hands, heart and head.
55:07
And so it's sort of like using the thing, touching the thing,
55:11
actually interacting with the thing, feeling that, that, that
55:16
emotional touch, you know, and, and that, that feeling when
55:21
you're using the thing. And then only after those two
55:24
things are sort of in place is when you can intellectualize it,
55:28
you can bring the head in and and and and to start sort of
55:32
thinking about it cognitively. But.
55:35
Exactly, that's that's the path and and all human beings sort of
55:40
respond that way where show, don't tell, feel it, touch it,
55:44
use it first, then feel what it feels like to actually use it.
55:49
Is it fun? Is it enjoyable?
55:51
Is it easy? All these things.
55:52
And then only after that can you dive into the yeah, the some of
55:56
the more technical aspects. It's yeah, it's definitely a
56:00
challenge for a lot of this. This is by the way, I I work at
56:07
bull Bitcoin and this is exactly why we created the bull wallet.
56:12
The bull wallet has been created with one thing in mind.
56:17
It needs to be at the cutting edge of technology and powerful
56:20
enough for people living on a Bitcoin standard.
56:24
Take save you people, but the experience needs to be as
56:27
seamless than that. Your grandma can use it.
56:32
And I think we're doing a pretty good job.
56:36
Even the Steve phrase, Steve phrase, you know, can be
56:39
something bringing friction when you're trying to arrange Bill
56:42
someone, he's scared. Oh, by the way, I sent you $20.
56:48
If you don't know these 12 words right now and then, then, then I
56:51
don't do the paper. You will lose all your money.
56:54
We created something called recoverable and recoverable.
56:58
I will let you have a look to it, right?
57:00
But recoverable is a way when you launch feeling someone with
57:05
low amounts to make them create a secure backup without the
57:11
stress of the 12 words. It's just a strong password and
57:15
it's cryptographically secure and it helps orange building all
57:20
type of people, including grandma.
57:22
We are doing it so it works. And I think not not only in
57:26
education but also in product designs and stuff, we need to
57:30
think about this. It needs to be used by educators
57:35
to let people that have no knowledge at all experiment with
57:39
Bitcoin and then they will come at them with questions.
57:44
Yeah, I, I, if I, I mean, I don't have any Bitcoin, but if I
57:48
did, I, I would use the full Bitcoin wallet.
57:53
I remember playing around with it a couple of years ago when it
57:56
was being tested and it was in the beta stage and it's, it's a
58:01
sexy wallet. Like it just works.
58:03
It does what it says on the tin and the, the, it's the side
58:11
chain swaps, I think, I can't remember it, but it basically
58:14
obfuscates transactions incredibly well.
58:17
The tech, the underlying tech for that is, Oh yeah, very
58:21
impressive. And and.
58:23
And for example, we tried to make strategies for noobs as
58:26
well. That's that are very powerful
58:29
such that you can, you can basically do ADCA whether P2P,
58:33
whether we would be good exchange ADCA that will
58:37
circulate directly from your bank account to liquid network.
58:42
And because liquid network as trade off, you can put an auto
58:46
swap with a limit, meaning that every time your wallet hits hits
58:51
a certain threshold, a swap will send the money to Bitcoin on
58:56
chain on your cold wallet disconnected from the network.
58:59
So you can have let's say ADCA constitute your own reserve the
59:08
most privately as possible and with UTX so large enough to be
59:16
future proof, but also that has minimal ancient trails, meaning
59:21
private, meaning less fees, meaning easy for newbies and we
59:26
you cannot fuck up basically. And that's that's the whole
59:30
philosophy. It's about how to make best
59:34
privacy practices by default and dumb proof.
59:40
What do you wish more people knew about Bitcoin?
59:49
I don't know, man. I think, well, well, yes, I, I
59:53
wish, I wish everybody know about Bitcoin.
59:56
But in the same time I think things are right just like they
59:59
are and Bitcoin is doing, it's tough and the progression is
1:00:04
already amazing. And we will, we will probably be
1:00:07
surprised in five years from now, from now the, the level of
1:00:11
adoption, etcetera. So yeah, I wish I could.
1:00:16
Pay for everything in the streets outside, extra Bitcoin
1:00:19
and that everybody knows about it.
1:00:21
But in the same time, let's take the time to appreciate the work
1:00:26
we all doing and the natural flow of things.
1:00:32
Nice. What does Bitcoin mean to you?
1:00:40
Bitcoin is a tool. I mentioned it.
1:00:42
Bitcoin is a tool. Bitcoin is a tool.
1:00:44
It's also a passionating meta topic because once you once you
1:00:49
get into Bitcoin, you start understanding a lot of stuff
1:00:53
from economics, Austrian economics, lows, Fiat, food,
1:01:02
government, family, inheritance, transmission.
1:01:11
I mean, yeah, it's really difficult to say because it
1:01:16
changes your it changed the way you see the world and you start
1:01:20
getting interested about a lot of things.
1:01:23
So Bitcoin is a meta topic. Bitcoin is just a tool.
1:01:27
Bitcoin is nothing because it's not Bitcoin is normal.
1:01:30
Actually Bitcoin, Bitcoin puts puts because Bitcoin gives you
1:01:36
the shades, you know, the same shades as in they live, you
1:01:39
know, they live the movie. So Bitcoin is just normal.
1:01:44
Actually Bitcoin is normal. It's nothing.
1:01:46
It's just a tool. It's shit.
1:01:48
You just you just got your new shades with it.
1:01:54
Yeah, Bitcoin is shit. I don't know.
1:01:56
I don't know about that, but I I get what you're saying.
1:01:59
It's a tool. It's a it.
1:02:00
That's the the thing that blows my mind all the time.
1:02:02
It. It it was a joke, but targeted
1:02:06
towards the people making too much about Bitcoin.
1:02:08
It's not Bitcoin. Bitcoin is an amazing tool,
1:02:11
right? But it's.
1:02:12
It needs individuals. It needs human beings.
1:02:14
What? What's what's more valuable?
1:02:17
It's everything else that comes with it, right?
1:02:19
It's a meta topic. Yeah, it needs human beings to
1:02:22
to use the tool and to use it well.
1:02:25
Otherwise it's it's pointless. Oh well, you know we are talking
1:02:29
about agents using Bitcoin as well, so it needs.
1:02:32
Human basic point. It is machine too.
1:02:36
I mean, I don't know. Oh boy, that's a whole other
1:02:39
topic for a whole other time. Science for sure.
1:02:42
Thank you so much man for spending some scarce time find
1:02:46
out energy telling us the tale of how you discovered Bitcoin.
1:02:49
Yeah, I had a great moment. I, I love to speak about Bitcoin
1:02:54
where even if it's just a tool, it, it lets us talk and talk for
1:02:58
hours if we if we have to.