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SMNTY Classics: The Craft · Stuff Mom Never Told You

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm welcome to stuff.
0:07
Speaker 1: I never told you protection of iHeart Radio. So October
0:21
Speaker 1: is over and that means we should probably stop talking
0:24
Speaker 1: about which is for now. But we did have all
0:27
Speaker 1: more classes. It's gonna be a Christmas which Oh my gosh,
0:30
Speaker 1: is there chrisms Witch there? You're right, Yes, you're right,
0:33
Speaker 1: You're absolutely right. Oh my gosh. Okay, I'm gonna look
0:35
Speaker 1: into that. But I couldn't. It was like, I just
0:39
Speaker 1: couldn't leave the craft out of the mix. I just
0:41
Speaker 1: couldn't do it. Because we've been talking about all of
0:44
Speaker 1: these movies. We've done past episodes on about witches, and
0:49
Speaker 1: this one is a popular one. It's one that people
0:53
Speaker 1: love that they watch every Halloween. That really meant something
0:57
Speaker 1: to a lot of people. And I actually found a
1:00
Speaker 1: short story about the effect of the craft and people
1:03
Speaker 1: who tried to emulate the craft, and it's it's in
1:05
Speaker 1: itself a horror story, which I really enjoyed. So I
1:09
Speaker 1: just couldn't leave it out. I'm sorry, I mean not really,
1:13
Speaker 1: but I'm a little a little bit um. We just
1:18
Speaker 1: have so many things to say about about which is
1:20
Speaker 1: in our society and on the show, which you know
1:23
Speaker 1: next year in October we're gonna need even more. So
1:26
Speaker 1: please keep suggestions coming in around. Yes, all year round,
1:31
Speaker 1: because we watch horror all year round, but um, indeed
1:34
Speaker 1: more witches. Please enjoy this classic episode. Hey, this is
1:44
Speaker 1: Annie and Samantha and welcome to stuff I've never told
1:46
Speaker 1: you production of I Heart Radio. It's time for another
1:59
Speaker 1: feministe this movie Friday. Yeah yeah, and this time we're
2:04
Speaker 1: tackling the long awaited as in a lot of you
2:07
Speaker 1: ever questioned it, suggested it cult classic, The Craft, The Craft.
2:13
Speaker 1: It was so good too. I just I just forgot
2:16
Speaker 1: how good it was. I enjoyed it. I I enjoyed it.
2:18
Speaker 1: I hadn't seen it in a long time, and I've
2:20
Speaker 1: actually only seen it once previously, maybe like three or
2:23
Speaker 1: four years ago. So I had a good time. Yea.
2:28
Speaker 1: So it stars Nev Campbell, Rachel True, Robin Tuney and
2:32
Speaker 1: Firous A Ball was directed by Andrew Fleming and written
2:35
Speaker 1: by Peter Falardi, and they actually had a Wiccaned consultant
2:39
Speaker 1: on set. Apparently the casting was a bit difficult because
2:43
Speaker 1: studios weren't used to seeing films with four main female protagonists.
2:48
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, what I know, despite campaigning very hard
2:52
Speaker 1: for a PG thirteen rating, the m p A A
2:55
Speaker 1: rated it are because it had teenagers and black magic.
2:59
Speaker 1: Oh no, not black magic, and particularly women. But I
3:02
Speaker 1: I will say personally, I would say that, And this
3:06
Speaker 1: is a good segue into our trigger warning suicide attempts
3:09
Speaker 1: rated AR perhaps, but it's I guess it's not super
3:13
Speaker 1: I don't know. That's just tricky to depict. Again, this
3:17
Speaker 1: is ninety six, so of course our variation of what
3:20
Speaker 1: should be rated what was a little different at that
3:23
Speaker 1: point in time. Too true, Oh, very true. So yeah,
3:27
Speaker 1: trigger warning for brief mentions of that abuse and attempted
3:32
Speaker 1: rate UM and shout out to you to Skyler and
3:36
Speaker 1: LV and others. Maybe there's a lot going on for
3:40
Speaker 1: joining us on our Netflix watch party. That was really fun, right,
3:43
Speaker 1: I think we're gonna try to attempt it again, especially
3:46
Speaker 1: UM as we maintain our social distancing and self quarantining.
3:51
Speaker 1: Even though people are trying to slowly let people out,
3:53
Speaker 1: we will remain. Yeah, I'm staying in. I'm staying in
3:56
Speaker 1: the studio. I'm gonna work up my cosplay. I don't
4:00
Speaker 1: know if you can see behind me. Samantha, here's my
4:02
Speaker 1: my Luke Skywalker cosplay I'm working on. So yeah, we'll
4:08
Speaker 1: definitely try to do that again, and especially now that
4:10
Speaker 1: we know how to do it, because I've actually that
4:13
Speaker 1: was my first time using um Netflix party. I've been
4:15
Speaker 1: using things like Senier or to seven where you can
4:19
Speaker 1: have the video chat, but this was it was pretty easy.
4:21
Speaker 1: Now we know how to do it, so keep an
4:23
Speaker 1: eye out for that, right and definitely what a minnisota
4:26
Speaker 1: of like nineties a O well chat? Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,
4:29
Speaker 1: which was perfectly love the vibe. Um. And yeah, if
4:32
Speaker 1: any any listeners like, just send your suggestions, if there's
4:36
Speaker 1: any movie you think would be cool for us to
4:38
Speaker 1: watch as an audience together, Um, we're down. Yes. So yeah,
4:43
Speaker 1: I missed this when it first came out. I guess
4:48
Speaker 1: I would have been an elementary school so it would
4:49
Speaker 1: have been weird for me to see it not unheard of.
4:52
Speaker 1: But what about you? Do you remember the first time
4:55
Speaker 1: you saw it? Smith? Oh? I was sixteen, So yeah,
4:57
Speaker 1: I definitely was all about this movie because I love
5:00
Speaker 1: the ideas of witches and vampires and all of that,
5:03
Speaker 1: the mystics type of thing, So I was I was
5:06
Speaker 1: ready of course I was very Christian too, so I
5:08
Speaker 1: had to hide it from my parents, so I would
5:10
Speaker 1: go to friends houses just kind of like MTV. I
5:13
Speaker 1: couldn't watch MTV at the house. At my friend's house
5:15
Speaker 1: it was playing, so yeah, not MTV. That's Candle Sinful
5:22
Speaker 1: Sinful inm TV where they show the bikini bodies. Why,
5:25
Speaker 1: oh my god. I remember I wanted to see it
5:30
Speaker 1: when I would got older and I would see the
5:32
Speaker 1: poster of them kind of like walking out of the
5:36
Speaker 1: light and they're in they're kind of gothic but Catholic
5:40
Speaker 1: school where I thought, you know what, I need to
5:44
Speaker 1: see this from me? Oh yeah, I mean just some
5:48
Speaker 1: walking shrutting together in line and in rhythm that makes
5:52
Speaker 1: you want to be like, hey, girl, let's practice this
5:54
Speaker 1: and we're gonna we're gonna enter this way as well. Yes,
5:56
Speaker 1: oh my gosh um. And because of its popularity, it
6:01
Speaker 1: is getting an indirect sequel, I think, or I couldn't
6:06
Speaker 1: tell if it was a sequel or a remake, but
6:09
Speaker 1: something's happening. They're they're doing something with it, right. I
6:13
Speaker 1: know there's been a conversation, there's been a conversations of
6:15
Speaker 1: a lot of these being remade and or having sequels,
6:19
Speaker 1: as we're gonna talk a little bit more about all
6:21
Speaker 1: of the remakes is happening. But I did see Balk
6:24
Speaker 1: was a part of this one. I would write the sequel,
6:26
Speaker 1: I think so, I believe so yeah, Okay, So let's
6:31
Speaker 1: let's talk about the plot in case anyone doesn't remember
6:35
Speaker 1: hasn't seen it. The plot centers around Sarah Bailey, who
6:38
Speaker 1: was played by tuney Um and she's starting at a
6:41
Speaker 1: Catholic school and new Catholic school in l A after
6:44
Speaker 1: she made a suicide attempt. She makes friends with three outsiders,
6:49
Speaker 1: Bonnie played by Campbell, Rochelle played by True, and Nancy
6:53
Speaker 1: played by Balk. They believe that Sarah can complete their coven.
6:57
Speaker 1: They need four people earth wind Fire and add one
7:00
Speaker 1: for each Um and they are nicknamed by others at
7:03
Speaker 1: the high school as the bitches of Eastwick. Classy. Yes,
7:09
Speaker 1: each are dealing with a specific issue that they're excited
7:12
Speaker 1: that maybe magic can solve for them, from physical scars, racism,
7:18
Speaker 1: emotional pain, and poverty. And at their most basic, these
7:22
Speaker 1: are issues of power, beauty, love and revenge. I guess
7:27
Speaker 1: ultimately all of them are power, right and control. Everything
7:32
Speaker 1: seems great at first, and they find power and sanctuary
7:36
Speaker 1: in their bond, but of course it can't last, as
7:39
Speaker 1: Nancy jealous of Sarah's status as a natural, which keeps
7:43
Speaker 1: pushing the boundaries of power, rendering their friendship toxic and
7:46
Speaker 1: outright dangerous. When Sarah attempts to bind Nancy's powers to
7:51
Speaker 1: protect them, the coven turns on her, sending Sarah nightmares
7:56
Speaker 1: awful false visions. They threaten her. They set hordes, rats
8:00
Speaker 1: and snakes and insects on her. They try to manipulate
8:04
Speaker 1: her into believing she was responsible for the deaths in
8:06
Speaker 1: her life, including her mom and her like semi would
8:10
Speaker 1: be boyfriend who's actually a total jerk. They tried to
8:13
Speaker 1: persuade her to take her own life. In retaliation, Sarah
8:17
Speaker 1: forces Rochelle and Bonnie to face their worse fears, and
8:20
Speaker 1: it's able to successfully bind Nancy's powers. Rochelle and Bonnie,
8:24
Speaker 1: now powerless as well, attempts to make amends with Sarah,
8:27
Speaker 1: but she rebuffs them. They mock her, calling her powerless
8:30
Speaker 1: and response kind of like you know they the backs
8:33
Speaker 1: have turned, but they say it loud enough for she
8:35
Speaker 1: can hear them. But Sarah proofs that she isn't by
8:39
Speaker 1: summoning a lightning strike. Meanwhile, Nancy is confined to a
8:43
Speaker 1: psychiatric hospital. End of movie. End of movie. Of course. Um.
8:48
Speaker 1: The movie debut tube not so great, kind of okay reviews,
8:52
Speaker 1: but over the years has become a cult classic. As
8:55
Speaker 1: we can see, there's cosplay and fan fiction and other
8:58
Speaker 1: types of fan art and are to dies and according
9:01
Speaker 1: to Robin Tuoney, actress Natalie Portman bought a copy of
9:04
Speaker 1: The Craft as her guilty pleasure movie to a bachelorette party,
9:07
Speaker 1: which I agree with that, and that's how a lot
9:11
Speaker 1: of people do see it as a guilty pleasure. I
9:13
Speaker 1: don't know. I think it's somewhat like a girl power
9:15
Speaker 1: movie in itself, even though it does have a breakdown
9:19
Speaker 1: of girl relationships. But that's the whole thing. Um. And
9:21
Speaker 1: it does have that sleepover vibe which I remember something like,
9:25
Speaker 1: I believe I was watching it at a sleepover. I
9:27
Speaker 1: don't really think about it, um, And in a lot
9:29
Speaker 1: of ways it captures sleepover vibes as well, down to
9:32
Speaker 1: playing light as a feather, which we actually had that
9:35
Speaker 1: discussion in our chat whether or not we'd all played it.
9:37
Speaker 1: I think we all tried. None of us were successful, right,
9:40
Speaker 1: I'll try, none of us were successful. In case anyone
9:43
Speaker 1: doesn't know what this is, I imagine you all do.
9:44
Speaker 1: But it's sort of a classic sleepover game that usually
9:50
Speaker 1: girls play, at least in our media. I don't know
9:53
Speaker 1: if that's true. But where you chant light is a
9:57
Speaker 1: feather and you that was a board ste it's board
10:00
Speaker 1: lizes of feather while one person is lying kind of
10:03
Speaker 1: flat on the ground, and each of you has one finger.
10:07
Speaker 1: I think if you're doing it correctly, it's supposed to
10:08
Speaker 1: be at like every kind of corner. Yeah, but do
10:11
Speaker 1: you have one finger underneath? And it is totally possible
10:15
Speaker 1: you'll lift the person up, but it feels like you're
10:18
Speaker 1: doing you're casting some type of spell, right and unless
10:21
Speaker 1: like I think when we did it, I was saying
10:23
Speaker 1: that we had fifteen girls around, like a seventy pound
10:26
Speaker 1: like fifty pound girl, so we lifted her up, but
10:29
Speaker 1: it wasn't magic right, right, But anyway, it goes to
10:33
Speaker 1: the classic slow motion walk we talked about. Through the
10:36
Speaker 1: high school scene, they're practically glowing with power and confidence,
10:40
Speaker 1: which could be a whole other conversation about them actually
10:42
Speaker 1: feeling it more so than the being it, and a
10:45
Speaker 1: sharp contrast to how they started out in the movie,
10:47
Speaker 1: and all of it down to their friendship. Ultimately, the
10:50
Speaker 1: strong bond is eroded and twisted by the external oppressive
10:54
Speaker 1: forces that they had used witchcraft to overcome. Symbolic of
10:57
Speaker 1: how societal structure so often turned women against each other.
11:01
Speaker 1: And this movie came out admits a wave of high
11:04
Speaker 1: school coming of age stories, a lot of them cult classics,
11:07
Speaker 1: but it stood out in the undertone of darkness in
11:10
Speaker 1: comparison to the rest of them. The fashion of most
11:15
Speaker 1: of the main cast was kind of gothy, kind of punkish,
11:18
Speaker 1: kind of grungy. There weren't many, if any predecessors of
11:22
Speaker 1: mainstream dark female empowermount films. It is often compared to
11:26
Speaker 1: Heather's Samantha, which I still have not seen, but you have,
11:29
Speaker 1: and we could do a virtual party of that, um
11:32
Speaker 1: and it's it's often I loved this and a lot
11:34
Speaker 1: of articles it was called the anti clueless. Yeah, a
11:39
Speaker 1: lot of people and going back and reading reviews, especially
11:44
Speaker 1: written you know, after it's been out for a certain
11:47
Speaker 1: amount of time, and people reminiscing about what they loved
11:51
Speaker 1: about it. A lot of people connected with Nancy specifically,
11:56
Speaker 1: at least from the things I read, and she's definitely
11:59
Speaker 1: the first time you see her, she's just outright derisive
12:04
Speaker 1: and sort of over it, and she is full of
12:08
Speaker 1: rage and fear and vulnerability. Um, she's lonely, she's in
12:13
Speaker 1: an abusive and impoverished household. She's intense and frightening. She
12:17
Speaker 1: refuses to be kept from power that has been withheld
12:20
Speaker 1: from her her entire life. So I absolutely see why
12:25
Speaker 1: people connected with it. And we've talked so many times
12:27
Speaker 1: about how women aren't allowed to experience those things a
12:33
Speaker 1: lot of time of the rage is not a feminine emotion,
12:38
Speaker 1: and she embraces all of that. And of course she
12:42
Speaker 1: is the one that ultimately gets super power hungry and
12:45
Speaker 1: ends up in a mental asylum, and we're going to
12:50
Speaker 1: talk more about what that means. But I totally can
12:54
Speaker 1: see why people connected with that, especially young girls and women, right,
13:00
Speaker 1: And of course this is also can talk about just
13:03
Speaker 1: the depression and the anger and the angst and the
13:05
Speaker 1: darkness which she was obviously in the embodiment of, while
13:09
Speaker 1: Robin Tuney's character was light and bright and all of that,
13:12
Speaker 1: but that's the whole other thing. So we're gonna talk
13:15
Speaker 1: about themes now. So which is in pop culture which
13:18
Speaker 1: I love some witches, which just have often been a
13:22
Speaker 1: term for women who, in one way or another does
13:24
Speaker 1: not follow society's rules for a lot of your girls.
13:28
Speaker 1: Cultural depictions of which is our first depicture of female
13:31
Speaker 1: empowerment and feminism. Yes we know, if you're feminist, you
13:34
Speaker 1: may be a witch. Start this right. And many of
13:37
Speaker 1: these stories, though, the women in question ultimately are punished
13:40
Speaker 1: for their search for power, which speaks to again our
13:43
Speaker 1: fear around female power and ambition. Oh my gosh, there's
13:47
Speaker 1: almost this message of see, little lady, you couldn't handle it.
13:50
Speaker 1: All these things holding you back are for your own good.
13:54
Speaker 1: So sure you can have some power, but not too much.
13:56
Speaker 1: So if you don't conform to the narrow definition and
13:59
Speaker 1: rules societ grants you, you will be deemed as mentally
14:02
Speaker 1: ill and locked away until you do. So. Get yourself straight, woman,
14:06
Speaker 1: because you can't have too much power, because it corrupts you.
14:09
Speaker 1: It's right, it's right. The rise in witchcraft happens alongside
14:15
Speaker 1: their awakening sexuality, which is something else our society is
14:19
Speaker 1: terrified of. I very very much want to do with
14:22
Speaker 1: Spoiled Saturday or whatever we arrive at on the Witch.
14:24
Speaker 1: I could talk about this forever, forever. Um, we do
14:30
Speaker 1: have more to say about which is but first we're
14:32
Speaker 1: gonna pause for a quick break for word from our sponsor,
14:48
Speaker 1: and we're back, Thank you, sponsor. So something else we
14:51
Speaker 1: see with these characters is that they do fall in
14:54
Speaker 1: the traps of their wishes and desires and are punished
14:58
Speaker 1: for them. This is pretty much any wish movie trope.
15:03
Speaker 1: Bonnie's wish for beauty, Foster's narcissism, Sarah's love spell leads
15:08
Speaker 1: to an attempted rape, Chelle's revenge spell traumatizes her target,
15:13
Speaker 1: and Nancy's for ay with power culminates in the torment, death,
15:17
Speaker 1: and dissolution of their coven. I can also see a
15:22
Speaker 1: coming of age thing here too, sort of the moral tale.
15:26
Speaker 1: Decisions have consequences, but also women going after what they
15:30
Speaker 1: want will be punished. There's that going on as well, right, Yeah,
15:35
Speaker 1: so of course we couldn't talk about this specific movie
15:40
Speaker 1: and less we also talked about the other examples, which
15:42
Speaker 1: actually any and I are slowly plotting to do maybe
15:45
Speaker 1: like a what triple feature? What's all these because you
15:50
Speaker 1: haven't seen all of them. But other examples, between witchcraft
15:53
Speaker 1: and magic and women and all of the downfalls of power,
15:57
Speaker 1: we can save the practical magic, which is I know
16:00
Speaker 1: a lot of people's favorite I spent a long time
16:02
Speaker 1: since I've seen it. All I remember is um Nicole
16:06
Speaker 1: Kidman dancing about being wicked in her own way. But
16:12
Speaker 1: I know, isn't that the women they can't find love.
16:17
Speaker 1: I think like they're cursed and they die or something.
16:20
Speaker 1: I don't spent a minute. Well, then people will remember
16:22
Speaker 1: to bring it back. Yeah, yeah, which is of Eastwick
16:25
Speaker 1: and I love love who does I love watching Susan
16:28
Speaker 1: Sorandon chair and Michelle five are going after Jack Nicholson
16:32
Speaker 1: in the ultimate way, like it's It's a fantastic movie,
16:35
Speaker 1: and I loved all of it. And I don't think
16:37
Speaker 1: they were originally witches to begin with until they met
16:40
Speaker 1: the devil and Nick Jack Nicholson is the devil. But
16:42
Speaker 1: it's a great movie and of course one of my
16:45
Speaker 1: all time favorite. The Witches scared the hell out of
16:48
Speaker 1: me as a kid. Oh my god. But like Angelica
16:52
Speaker 1: Houston taking off her face one of those moments you've
16:57
Speaker 1: told me about this and I know I've said before
17:00
Speaker 1: the podcast, I never watched this movie even though we
17:02
Speaker 1: owned it, because the cover scared me so badly. But
17:06
Speaker 1: I bet i'd really like it. I should definitely. Oh.
17:09
Speaker 1: I think the one of the reasons I'm afraid of
17:11
Speaker 1: like paintings with people in it is because of this movie.
17:15
Speaker 1: That is a creepy one. But Ghostbusters too is what
17:18
Speaker 1: did that for me? Oh, that's fair, that's fair. Another classic.
17:23
Speaker 1: There's also hocus Pocus, which I know I've said before,
17:26
Speaker 1: but I watched that movie so many times. It got
17:27
Speaker 1: banned from my household when I was eight, and I
17:31
Speaker 1: didn't watch it again until college. But now every Halloween,
17:35
Speaker 1: of course, gotta watch it. kikiS Delivery Service teen, which
17:40
Speaker 1: I've never seen. That one you've never seen ten, which
17:42
Speaker 1: that's an eighties classic, late eighties orly nineties classic. That
17:45
Speaker 1: one looks much more cheery it is. There's a musical
17:48
Speaker 1: number in there only or a dead sequence. I know
17:52
Speaker 1: there's something along those lines. Okay, So I did watch
17:55
Speaker 1: Charmed to the television show like through its entirety, and
17:59
Speaker 1: I had a huge crush. It's really funny because if
18:02
Speaker 1: I make a list of all of my fictional crushes
18:04
Speaker 1: I've ever had. They're so similar in like their angsty
18:07
Speaker 1: heroic ways. They had a huge crush season six Chris
18:11
Speaker 1: still remember never forget you, Chris. I can't remember who
18:16
Speaker 1: you was. Oh he he probably was a terrible, terrible character.
18:20
Speaker 1: Interesting writing for him, for sure. But I liked the
18:23
Speaker 1: angsty plotline that was all about that. But I I
18:26
Speaker 1: have not seen the reboot, but I've heard good things
18:29
Speaker 1: that's currently on. I've actually watched. I watched the whole reboot,
18:33
Speaker 1: and I did like it. I liked some of the
18:35
Speaker 1: ideas behind it. I think it was such a I remember, like,
18:39
Speaker 1: I need to go back and watch it. Some of
18:41
Speaker 1: the acting is not great, um, but I do love
18:45
Speaker 1: that the majority of the women were people of color,
18:48
Speaker 1: so it was women of color and I love that.
18:51
Speaker 1: So it was a beautiful take on that whole change
18:54
Speaker 1: as well. And I really did appreciate how they flipped that. Um.
18:59
Speaker 1: It was interesting to see because it was definitely kind
19:01
Speaker 1: of like how I know we're gonna talk about it,
19:04
Speaker 1: Minna Sabrina. It twisted it to be a little bit darker,
19:07
Speaker 1: even more so than the original Charmed. Even though the
19:10
Speaker 1: original charm was getting pretty dark. It was kind of
19:12
Speaker 1: like getting to the Buffy level of darkness to the end. Yeah.
19:15
Speaker 1: I always liked in Charmed how they kind of sugarcoated
19:20
Speaker 1: what they did and they would call killing vanquishing, which
19:24
Speaker 1: I suppose, yes, but I remember being young and thinking
19:28
Speaker 1: because I had to look it up, and I'm like, oh, well, okay, okay, whatever,
19:32
Speaker 1: one more thing on Charm before we move on. I
19:34
Speaker 1: did read a lot of critiques that Charmed is essentially
19:37
Speaker 1: a straight rip off of the Craft down to the
19:39
Speaker 1: They even used the same song that the Craft used
19:43
Speaker 1: they used as their theme song. That makes sense, I
19:46
Speaker 1: can see it. Even some of the actors were like, Charmed,
19:49
Speaker 1: what what are you doing? There's Willow and Buffy who
19:54
Speaker 1: One of my favorite episodes of Buffy is when she
19:56
Speaker 1: goes evil and like almost destroys the planet. I love
19:59
Speaker 1: that episode. Oh yes, I just remember she was one
20:03
Speaker 1: of the first characters that actually had same sex relationship. Yeah,
20:08
Speaker 1: it was one of the first same sex kisses on
20:11
Speaker 1: mainstream television, I believe. Also, yeah, I guess Tara she
20:14
Speaker 1: was a witched to. Tara was a witch, and that's
20:16
Speaker 1: kind of how she came into her own right. Tara
20:18
Speaker 1: kind of helped her into that. Yeah, yeah, I remember
20:21
Speaker 1: this other shows which we I actually have my uh
20:26
Speaker 1: Sam and Dean Winchester candles litch that Adye gave me.
20:30
Speaker 1: But Rowena in Supernatural. I think she's probably one of
20:32
Speaker 1: the more fun witches that I've seen God depicted because
20:35
Speaker 1: she is delightfully uh evil, yeah, but charmingly so, so
20:41
Speaker 1: I appreciate that. Bonnie in The Vampire Diaries, which I've
20:44
Speaker 1: never seen any of those, surprisingly, were you an extra? Yeah,
20:50
Speaker 1: but like we spent sixteen hours shooting that scene and
20:53
Speaker 1: then they got it. But I got a guy like
20:57
Speaker 1: I was some girl that ran into I think his
21:00
Speaker 1: name was Steve. He was one of the hot vampires
21:02
Speaker 1: at their ties themed prom and the actors like she
21:06
Speaker 1: supposed to run into me. I was like, yeah, oh,
21:11
Speaker 1: you're not like that. Someone didn't read their script. Um
21:15
Speaker 1: Chilling Adventures of Sabrina, which fantastic. I haven't watched the
21:19
Speaker 1: newest season. I didn't hear too many great reviews of
21:21
Speaker 1: the newest season, but it's definitely very dark. American horror
21:25
Speaker 1: story Covin, which is probably one of my favorite seasons
21:29
Speaker 1: of American horse story. I haven't seen Apocalypse, but it
21:32
Speaker 1: does have witches in it as well, which makes sense.
21:35
Speaker 1: They all because I saw the first few episodes and yeah,
21:39
Speaker 1: like they're steampunk ready to go, I think interesting. Okay, okay, uh.
21:46
Speaker 1: The Witch, which I've already brought up, and I love
21:49
Speaker 1: that movie. I love, love love it. It's so good.
21:51
Speaker 1: The Wizard of Oz, um and Wicked, Maleficent, Harry Potter
21:56
Speaker 1: of course, and Chronicles of Narnia, The White Witch. Yes, um,
22:00
Speaker 1: and just throw it there once upon a time, obviously
22:03
Speaker 1: several different witches in there. Um who you also have
22:07
Speaker 1: the good versus evil and what is actually good? What
22:09
Speaker 1: is evil? Yeah, it is just kind of fun to see.
22:12
Speaker 1: I definitely feel like um. And in our famous pop
22:17
Speaker 1: culture examples of which is there are two main threads
22:20
Speaker 1: and this is simplifying, but empowerment and punishment. Many early
22:24
Speaker 1: witches were depicted as evil, power hungry, coming for your
22:28
Speaker 1: children so they can stay young, often in ways that
22:32
Speaker 1: we as an audience could laugh at and be a
22:35
Speaker 1: little nervous of. At the same time, She's sinister, but
22:37
Speaker 1: let's laugh at her. Um. Maybe I've head him too
22:40
Speaker 1: deeply into it. I don't know, but it sort of
22:41
Speaker 1: seems like we're saying don't trust women, but also don't
22:44
Speaker 1: take them seriously because ultimately they're not really a threat.
22:47
Speaker 1: I don't right. Also, the whole only bad, which is
22:50
Speaker 1: are ugly. She even says that directly in the Wizard
22:54
Speaker 1: of oz Um. Yeah yeah, yeah, um. A lot of
22:58
Speaker 1: our earlier renditions of which is aimed at them. We
23:00
Speaker 1: all know the image of sort of an old hag
23:03
Speaker 1: green skin, yeah right, I mean, once upon a time,
23:07
Speaker 1: that's exactly how they do it. Her envy turns her green,
23:11
Speaker 1: and so she looks a little more. Yeah like it's
23:13
Speaker 1: kind of her jealousy. So therefore that's why she becomes green. So,
23:17
Speaker 1: and if we take a look at the motivations, a
23:20
Speaker 1: lot of them are stereotypical things associated with women, youth
23:24
Speaker 1: and love. But some of them, especially the more modern ones,
23:27
Speaker 1: are all about finding power in a patriarchal system, which
23:31
Speaker 1: he that's how you see Rowena is supernatural. She comes
23:34
Speaker 1: in going after pimps. Yeah, it was really it's really interesting.
23:38
Speaker 1: She's badass um. So, which is are having a cultural moment,
23:42
Speaker 1: and I think it's like oft and on, they always
23:44
Speaker 1: are in something at some point in time. Cyclical and
23:47
Speaker 1: there are a lot of articles about why that is.
23:51
Speaker 1: Many see it as a direct result of a slew
23:53
Speaker 1: of public and painful instances of misogyny, a manifestation of
23:56
Speaker 1: female rage and the desire of empowerment and the feeling
24:00
Speaker 1: of control, because as we see in the news today,
24:03
Speaker 1: as long as we've been fighting for this, it still
24:06
Speaker 1: hasn't happened. Yeah, so of course we're going to see
24:09
Speaker 1: where we have a fantasy level, I think of trying
24:12
Speaker 1: to see that in reality and embracing the scarier side
24:15
Speaker 1: of femininity and not caring if it makes people scared
24:19
Speaker 1: or uncomfortable. Finally getting to the point of the rage
24:21
Speaker 1: is okay to a certain extent, And a lot of
24:24
Speaker 1: these which just have a strong sense of community to
24:26
Speaker 1: one that lists them up and makes them stronger, which
24:29
Speaker 1: is a key for movements looking to implement structural change
24:32
Speaker 1: like feminism, and if we look at the sixties and
24:34
Speaker 1: second wave feminism, it coincides with one of the first
24:37
Speaker 1: ways of our cultural interests, of which is things like
24:39
Speaker 1: but which and the organization Women's International Tears, Conspiracy from Hell,
24:45
Speaker 1: the u I T C H WHICH, And then during
24:47
Speaker 1: the third wave we see another rise in which is
24:50
Speaker 1: in our pop culture Charmed Buffy, Sabrine of the teenage,
24:53
Speaker 1: which practical magic, the craft, and so on and now
24:57
Speaker 1: and what some might call the fourth wave, we see
24:59
Speaker 1: another researcher is of pop cultural which is right. So,
25:02
Speaker 1: for an example, in the first episode of the Rebootage
25:05
Speaker 1: Charmed the three Vanquist short kill a college professor who
25:10
Speaker 1: is also a misogynist, demon and sexual predator. American horror
25:14
Speaker 1: story tackled a storyline of a man coming over and
25:17
Speaker 1: stealing the power traditionally held by women. And then on
25:20
Speaker 1: Netflix's Chilling Adventures of Sabrina Sabrina and her Fellow, which
25:24
Speaker 1: is frequently outright question the patriarchal system, directly calling attention
25:29
Speaker 1: to it. Sabrina herself is determined to infiltrate the male
25:33
Speaker 1: run world and take it on, unwilling to be a
25:36
Speaker 1: servant in the system, determined to make her one right. Yeah,
25:40
Speaker 1: so she's like, I'm so kind of confused by it,
25:44
Speaker 1: but she's her dad's like, you're gonna serve by my side,
25:47
Speaker 1: and she says, no, not really into that. But you
25:52
Speaker 1: also see the Aunties doing the same thing within the
25:54
Speaker 1: school system. She comes in, it's like done with this patriarch,
25:58
Speaker 1: we're gonna take it and'm gonna shift to and women
26:00
Speaker 1: are gonna lead, and want to see how that changes
26:03
Speaker 1: the concepts. And then I was thinking about Charmed at
26:06
Speaker 1: the very beginning actually follows me to moment at the college,
26:11
Speaker 1: and that's how it begins, is the mother of the
26:14
Speaker 1: three is one of the ones that's pushing or at
26:17
Speaker 1: least encouraging the girl to report and and it also
26:20
Speaker 1: being her support system as well. So it was an
26:22
Speaker 1: interesting look for sure. It totally makes sense to me
26:25
Speaker 1: that when we're seeing all of these instances of injustice
26:30
Speaker 1: in the news, that the appeal of which is kind
26:37
Speaker 1: of having that power to fight these things and that community, honestly,
26:41
Speaker 1: because that is a huge part in so many of
26:43
Speaker 1: these right, And so is sisterhood and friendships, which brings
26:48
Speaker 1: us to the next thing we want to discuss. But
26:50
Speaker 1: first it brings us to one more quick break for
26:52
Speaker 1: a word from our sponsor, m and we're back that
27:08
Speaker 1: you sponsor. So yeah, another theme of the craft and
27:12
Speaker 1: of a lot of those examples we just mentioned is
27:14
Speaker 1: the power of female friendships and support groups and community
27:20
Speaker 1: and seeing that power as a force for good and
27:25
Speaker 1: a source of power, but also as something that can
27:27
Speaker 1: be toxic. In the arc of the Craft, we get
27:31
Speaker 1: to see the power of female friendships and the pain
27:35
Speaker 1: of its downfall, particularly through the lens of teenagers. We
27:38
Speaker 1: see the happiness and strength they get through each other,
27:41
Speaker 1: and the power of them working together, right, but we
27:45
Speaker 1: also see jealousy and the discarding of friendship in the
27:48
Speaker 1: face of power. Young girls have so many rules in play,
27:52
Speaker 1: so many consequences that they face that their male counterparts don't.
27:56
Speaker 1: Of course, the power to do something without consequence is
27:59
Speaker 1: tending them, offering a feeling of liberation. Right. We see
28:05
Speaker 1: examples of the issues young women face when Chris played
28:08
Speaker 1: by Skeet old rich Uh spreads the rumor that he
28:12
Speaker 1: had sex with Sarah and she wasn't good at it.
28:15
Speaker 1: After Sarah says she's not ready for sex on the
28:17
Speaker 1: previous night on a on a day, and he acts
28:19
Speaker 1: like he's totally cool with it. But then she shows
28:21
Speaker 1: up at school and she hears these things he's saying
28:24
Speaker 1: about her. She confronts him and he gaslights her, telling
28:27
Speaker 1: her no sane person would want to be with her
28:30
Speaker 1: and that he would never be interested in her again. Right.
28:35
Speaker 1: The scene at the end where Rochelle and Bonnie offer
28:38
Speaker 1: an insincere apology to get power felt really reminiscent of
28:42
Speaker 1: female friendship power dynamics, especially at that age of pretending
28:46
Speaker 1: to be someone's friend and then trash talking them behind
28:49
Speaker 1: their back. And I'm sure a lot of young women
28:52
Speaker 1: and girls recognize these the pitfalls, like the how beautiful
28:57
Speaker 1: female friendship can be, but the the pit falls that
29:00
Speaker 1: are there too. And I just remember being at big
29:03
Speaker 1: sleepovers where you'd sort of have people that you were
29:06
Speaker 1: really close with and then other people that you weren't
29:08
Speaker 1: that close with, and this knowledge of they're probably talking
29:13
Speaker 1: about me behind right back. Oh yeah. I definitely have
29:17
Speaker 1: moments that I remember, specific incidents where one friend of
29:21
Speaker 1: mine who was supposed to be close, she and I
29:23
Speaker 1: were hanging out and I said something and she must spoke,
29:26
Speaker 1: and she took it and twisted it and told her
29:28
Speaker 1: friends that I was being mean, and so they rode
29:30
Speaker 1: my bus. I'm not gonna hear them talking about me.
29:32
Speaker 1: I remember that to this day. It's devastating. It's devastating,
29:36
Speaker 1: and these things are difficult to navigate just because high school,
29:43
Speaker 1: middle school, in high school, it's such a social dynamics
29:48
Speaker 1: and power structures are very weird, right right, And we
29:52
Speaker 1: all know bullys and cliques and groups they existed. They
29:56
Speaker 1: may have existed differently for different people. I know my
29:59
Speaker 1: like little group that wasn't really that level um of
30:03
Speaker 1: like athletes versus this and this. That wasn't the thing.
30:07
Speaker 1: But there was definitely still clicks and popular kids who
30:10
Speaker 1: were jerks. I still remember that too, so, but we
30:13
Speaker 1: did want to mention one of the things that happened
30:17
Speaker 1: with a lot of movies, with a lot of cultural
30:19
Speaker 1: things that are happening today, just racism in general. Rachel
30:23
Speaker 1: True has been really outspoken about how she feels as
30:26
Speaker 1: the character and an actress. She said that she was
30:29
Speaker 1: valued less because she was black. She wasn't included in
30:32
Speaker 1: all the press jectives, even though the three other white
30:34
Speaker 1: actresses were. And the same with the MTV Movie Awards,
30:38
Speaker 1: a scene with her parents was cut from the film.
30:40
Speaker 1: All all the other characters had scenes with our parents,
30:42
Speaker 1: which shows a little more depth and background. Um and
30:46
Speaker 1: True told complex. Nancy is dealing with poverty and abuse,
30:50
Speaker 1: Bonnie has burns, Sarah has a suicidal past, and me,
30:54
Speaker 1: I'm just black. Um, I'm still the black best friend.
30:57
Speaker 1: I'm still that tripe to a certain extent, even in
31:00
Speaker 1: the craft. And actually she just recently tweeted about this
31:03
Speaker 1: due to the fact that people had mentioned the movie
31:06
Speaker 1: and the characters and they even forgot her name, like
31:09
Speaker 1: her name or they didn't even bother to look up
31:11
Speaker 1: her actual name while naming all the other actresses, but her,
31:15
Speaker 1: she's like to see, right, there's another example of how
31:17
Speaker 1: I'm being a race from one of the movies that
31:20
Speaker 1: I started, Yeah, and an extremely popular and well loved
31:24
Speaker 1: right right, Yeah. I remember the first time I saw it,
31:30
Speaker 1: I was shocked that they just faced that head on, right,
31:35
Speaker 1: and it does again. It's just we need more representation
31:40
Speaker 1: because there's space for that story. But then there should
31:43
Speaker 1: be so much more nuance and complexities and so much more,
31:47
Speaker 1: so many more stories out there. And I felt like
31:51
Speaker 1: this was the only character that she felt guilty, truly
31:54
Speaker 1: guilty for things that were happening. And again that puts
31:58
Speaker 1: it back onto a person of color, the black woman,
32:01
Speaker 1: to feel like she needs to change something, but she
32:04
Speaker 1: did something wrong when actuality she was the victim. But
32:07
Speaker 1: I feel like that was the only case that I
32:09
Speaker 1: saw that in the entirety of the movie. Sure, powder corrupts,
32:12
Speaker 1: but you don't see guilt, you don't see blame. And
32:15
Speaker 1: somehow this twisted this again back on her. Yeah, which
32:19
Speaker 1: says a lot, and that happens a lot within shows
32:22
Speaker 1: and movies. It does, it does. Um, and I'm glad
32:28
Speaker 1: we're making progress. But again, this movie came out, so
32:33
Speaker 1: she's still being a race today exactly. Um. But yeah,
32:41
Speaker 1: that's kind of what we have to say about The Craft.
32:44
Speaker 1: If you haven't seen it or inspired to rewatch it,
32:47
Speaker 1: it is on Netflix if you have Netflix, and I
32:50
Speaker 1: would recommend it. I had good time. Yeah, actually, definitely
32:54
Speaker 1: go watch it. Let us know what your thoughts are.
32:56
Speaker 1: Those who are actually identifying as witches and believe this
33:00
Speaker 1: is a part of your lifestyle. Tell us what we
33:02
Speaker 1: see is wrong, is right? You know, give us a
33:04
Speaker 1: heads up. I was taying that I was trying to
33:07
Speaker 1: figure out terra cards and I'm learning those, but I'm
33:09
Speaker 1: very slow at it. It seems like it's a little complicated.
33:13
Speaker 1: It's not something you just stick up complicated. Yeah, that's
33:16
Speaker 1: a good quarantine skill to learn. I like that, all right.
33:19
Speaker 1: I was like, you know what, I'm very intuitive, so
33:21
Speaker 1: I feel like this should be up my alley. I'm
33:23
Speaker 1: just gonna have to learn the cards. That's all, just
33:27
Speaker 1: all ten thousand of them and many millions of combos.
33:31
Speaker 1: It's fine. You need to take a video and show
33:34
Speaker 1: it to me because I just love the art of it. Um. Yeah, yeah,
33:37
Speaker 1: So that's your homework, Samantha, I got it. Um for
33:42
Speaker 1: the rest to come, a witch, I'm sure I am
33:47
Speaker 1: almost positive you've been called which before in your life. Um.
33:54
Speaker 1: But yeah, for for you listeners, please keep the movie
33:56
Speaker 1: and book suggestions coming, um and any watch party ideas.
34:02
Speaker 1: We are all ears. Um. You can email us at
34:05
Speaker 1: Stuff Media, mom Stuff at iHeart media dot com. You
34:07
Speaker 1: can find us on Twitter, app, mom Stuff podcast, or
34:10
Speaker 1: on Instagram at stuff I've Never Told You. Thanks as
34:12
Speaker 1: always to our super producer Andrew Howard, what on doing?
34:18
Speaker 1: I don't know about that? Thanks to you for listening
34:22
Speaker 1: Stuff I've Never Told you. His protection of iHeart Radio
34:24
Speaker 1: for more podcasts from iHeart Radio, but it's the iHeart
34:26
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your
34:28
Speaker 1: favorite shows.