Latest / The Vault: The Epstein Files / Inside The OIG Interview: The Testimony Of An Unnamed MCC Lieutenant (Part 14) (5/9/26)

Transcript

Inside The OIG Interview: The Testimony Of An Unnamed MCC Lieutenant (Part 14) (5/9/26) · The Vault: The Epstein Files

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
• 0:03
  Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're diving right back in
• 0:07
  to the interview with the unnamed lieutenant from MCC and
• 0:12
  the OIG inspectors. Question, Okay, all right, do you know
• 0:17
  anything about Epstein being authorized to have pills in his
• 0:19
  cell in the shoe? Answer pillows? Question no pills? Answer nah?
• 0:26
  Question pills like medication? Answer no? Question Should have he
• 0:30
  been allowed medication in his cell? Answer? I mean inmates
• 0:34
  have medication? Question they do? Answer yeah. Question so in
• 0:39
  the shoe they're allowed to have medication? Answer yeah. Question
• 0:43
  is there ever a problem with like oding or anything
• 0:46
  like that? Answer? I mean if it's depending on the
• 0:49
  medication medical gives it to them. Question okay, answer some
• 0:54
  have self carrying medicines. Question all right, and so that
• 0:57
  and that's not abnormal for them to have their own
• 1:00
  pill bottles and things like that in the shoe. Answer no. Question.
• 1:04
  What can an inmate having their selling the shoe? Answer
• 1:07
  t shirt, boxers, wash claws, a towel, depending on what
• 1:11
  the season. Two blankets, two sheets? Question so they can
• 1:16
  have two blankets and two sheets? Answer dependent on the weather?
• 1:20
  Question okay answer and how much is available? Question what
• 1:24
  about August? How many blankets and sheets could have they had? Answer?
• 1:28
  How many could they have? Had? Question? Or are they
• 1:31
  allowed to have? Had? Answer? It depends some of them.
• 1:36
  It depends if they say, hey, let me keep it,
• 1:39
  two and two let them keep it? Question okay? Answer
• 1:44
  I say, hey, you need to you know? They go
• 1:47
  down to one question Would it never be authorized to
• 1:50
  have more than two? Each? Answer? How many? Like an
• 1:53
  extra blanket or something? Answer? Yeah, like if three blankets
• 1:57
  or four blankets? Answer? I don't know about four, but
• 2:02
  an extra blanket I heard that, especially in the winter time,
• 2:06
  depending on the cells. Question what about in August? Answer
• 2:09
  an extra blanket? Question or extra linen? Answer? No question? Yeah,
• 2:15
  what about extra clothing? Answer? I mean it wouldn't be authorized,
• 2:18
  but they could get it. Question how would they get it? Answer?
• 2:22
  They could get it. They could fish it themselves inmates.
• 2:25
  Question you mean they can like throw a cord over
• 2:28
  like he gets cut off by the lieutenant. Yeah? Question
• 2:33
  all right? And would that be caught on the cell
• 2:35
  search if they were being conducted though? Answer not all
• 2:38
  the time? Question no answer, no question? And how would
• 2:42
  they miss that? Answer? What if they don't search the
• 2:46
  cell today. Question No, I'm saying during the cell searches,
• 2:50
  like if they search the cell, question if they see
• 2:53
  the fishing line? Yeah? Question no, no, if they see
• 2:56
  a fishing line. But if the cell is being searched,
• 3:00
  it's cut off by the lieutenant and it has success
• 3:02
  with Linen? Question and it has would they take it
• 3:05
  at that point? Answer? Yeah, usually they take it. Question Okay,
• 3:10
  anything else they're allowed to have answer books? Food? Yeah,
• 3:15
  question all right. Do you know if Epstein was given
• 3:17
  any special privileges to have extra clothing or extra linen?
• 3:21
  Answer no? Question no, do you know if he had
• 3:24
  extra clothing or extra linen? Answer no? Question who was
• 3:28
  making sure that Epstein had the correct amount of clothing
• 3:31
  and Linen's answer? Not sure? Question would it be like
• 3:34
  the shoe staff or the lieutenant or all of the
• 3:37
  above the shoe lieutenant answer I'm not sure. Question working
• 3:41
  in the shoe though, or previously you don't know who
• 3:43
  would he gets cut off by the lieutenant? Who is
• 3:48
  monitoring it? I mean the inspector jumps in, like who
• 3:52
  would be who's responsible? Not let sounds like looks like
• 3:56
  no one was monitoring it, But who was actually responsible
• 3:59
  to me make sure him and these guys aren't supposed
• 4:02
  to have that many that much clothing or linen. Answer
• 4:05
  I'm not sure because when we used to do linen,
• 4:08
  you give them three, I give you three. That's how
• 4:11
  we used to monitor it. Question yes, it's supposed to
• 4:15
  be like a one for one exchange. Answer yeah, So
• 4:18
  I don't know who's responsible to keep an eye on
• 4:20
  his things, though I uh gets cut off. Typically who
• 4:24
  provides the inmates with their linens? The investigator asks, answer staff,
• 4:30
  question do lieutenants ever do that? Answer? No, not really.
• 4:34
  Question so it would be the staff that's responsible. Then
• 4:37
  answer yeah, that's why I say indiscernible responsibility. I guess.
• 4:41
  Then question okay, does the shoe lieutenant ever do it? Answer?
• 4:45
  I mean it could, I could if I wanted to.
• 4:49
  Question yeah, but typically would it be the shoe staff?
• 4:52
  Answer yeah, Question okay, any idea how Epstein's interactions were
• 4:56
  with other inmates? Did he ever have interactions with other inmates? Really? Answer?
• 5:01
  I don't know. I know when he was first got there,
• 5:04
  he told me some guy he was nervous because his
• 5:06
  face was on the TV and guys might try to
• 5:09
  intimidate him. That's about it, though. Question that was something
• 5:12
  he Epstein specifically told you. Answer he told the officer,
• 5:16
  and then the officer told me. He said, hey, I
• 5:19
  didn't know who he was. I was like, all right,
• 5:21
  let me look into it. And then they moved them.
• 5:24
  Question where was he? Answer? He was on his first
• 5:28
  unit I think was eleven North. Question so he was
• 5:31
  in general population? Answer when he first got here? Yeah,
• 5:36
  question all right. So people that tell us that he
• 5:39
  was in the shoe the entire time are incorrect. Answer
• 5:42
  when he first got through, he was in general population.
• 5:45
  Question And for how long was he in general pop? Answer?
• 5:49
  Say about a day or two? Question are you the
• 5:51
  one that actually moved him into the shoe? Answer? No, question?
• 5:55
  Who did that? Answer? I don't know. Question all right?
• 5:58
  But an officer reported it too you and then you
• 6:01
  he gets cut off by the lieutenant. Yeah, I know
• 6:04
  he was in general population. Question And what did you
• 6:08
  do with the information when that was told? Answer? What question?
• 6:13
  You said? An officer said he's worried about safety? Answer Yeah,
• 6:16
  I spoke to him. Question you spoke to Epstein? Answer?
• 6:19
  I wanted to know. I said, what was going on?
• 6:22
  I said, all right, we're going to look into this
• 6:24
  and then they moved him. Question okay, answer yeah, question,
• 6:29
  but I guess my question was, did you report that
• 6:32
  information to someone and then it was a person? Answer
• 6:36
  I don't remember. I know I passed it on. I said, hey,
• 6:39
  this guy, I think he's eye profile. Question okay, answer
• 6:42
  look into it. I think by the captain or someone
• 6:45
  got together and they moved him, put him in a
• 6:48
  place in the shoe. Question okay, and when was the
• 6:52
  last time you interacted with Epstein? Answer? I can't recall.
• 6:56
  Question did you have any interaction with him? On August ninth? Answer?
• 6:59
  I could. I don't know. He's right there on the floor,
• 7:03
  so I could have. Question, but you don't know. So again,
• 7:07
  dude dies the next day. You can't remember if the
• 7:10
  day before you talked with this guy when it's like
• 7:12
  the biggest case ever. Answer yeah, question you don't remember?
• 7:17
  Answer uh huh, because I brung him up to the
• 7:19
  shoe a few times, but I don't know if I
• 7:21
  did that day. Question I'm just saying that kind of
• 7:24
  sparks a little suspicion. Answer, I know what you're saying. Question,
• 7:28
  It's like if it's like you can't even remember the
• 7:31
  last if you talk to him on that day the
• 7:33
  day before. Answer, I mean it's a big case. I
• 7:36
  get that, but I mean, you know, I have a
• 7:38
  job like you know. Question Yeah, I mean, I'm just
• 7:42
  saying that's going to create a little bit he gets
• 7:44
  cut off by the lieutenant. Yeah, but I can't remember
• 7:47
  if I spoke to that dude that day. Question do
• 7:49
  you remember when the last time you saw him? Answer no,
• 7:52
  I'm probably assuming that day if he was an attorney conference.
• 7:57
  Question is that because you would have visited attorney conference? Answer? Yeah,
• 8:01
  the elevator is right there on the third floor here,
• 8:04
  attorney conference is there? If I wait right here in
• 8:07
  the elevator, I see him. He's in the same room
• 8:09
  every day. Question but you can't remember if you actually
• 8:12
  spoke with him on that day? Answer no. Question would
• 8:16
  you typically speak with him when he was in the
• 8:19
  attorney conference? Answer? The only time I used to speak
• 8:22
  with him is if to say, hey you can bring this,
• 8:25
  Hey you going to shoe? Can you take him up?
• 8:27
  All right? Come on? Question all right? Now, the other
• 8:32
  investigator jumps in. Can I ask a question on that question? Yeah?
• 8:37
  Please do question just in case, I mean, I know
• 8:41
  you said that you don't remember, but that's his last day.
• 8:44
  That's the last time you saw him. Do you remember
• 8:47
  who he was with that day? Answer his lawyers? Question
• 8:50
  do you remember his demeanor? Answer? No? Question Was he upset?
• 8:55
  Was he yelling? Did he complain about anything? Answer? He
• 8:58
  used to sleep a lot, That's all I know. Oh.
• 9:01
  Sometimes you see him in there. He's just lying on
• 9:03
  the table. His lawyer is right there. Question while he's
• 9:06
  with his attorneys? Answer he was there. He used to
• 9:09
  be there from eight in the morning all day to
• 9:12
  a watch and evening watch. Question around what time would
• 9:16
  he show up there? Answer early, he'd be the first
• 9:19
  one there. Question And what time would that be? Answer
• 9:22
  eight to eight thirty? Question? And then what time would
• 9:26
  he typically go back to the shoe? Answer before or
• 9:29
  attorney conference over at eight? So about eight question? So
• 9:33
  basically eight am to eight pm. And who are the
• 9:36
  people that would take them to the attorney conference and
• 9:39
  then bring them back to the shoe. Answer I told you,
• 9:41
  Like I said, I've done it sometimes question Yeah. Answer,
• 9:45
  but typically they get the guy ready in shoe, bring
• 9:48
  him down. If R and D's out there, Hey we
• 9:50
  got to move him, you know, I'll take him down
• 9:53
  whoever's gone that way? Question did you ever take them
• 9:56
  there to attorney conference or back to the shoe on
• 9:59
  August ninth? Answer? I don't think so, I can't recall.
• 10:03
  Question were you still at the MCC at around eight
• 10:05
  pm on August ninth? Answer? No, I wasn't there at
• 10:09
  eight Question and what time do you believe that you
• 10:11
  left MCC on August ninth? Answer between two and four?
• 10:16
  Question so sometime between two and four answer yeah, question,
• 10:21
  but you weren't back. So he was an attorney conference
• 10:24
  all that time, So the last time you possibly could
• 10:26
  have interacted with him would have been around eight am?
• 10:29
  Correct answer, I mean interacting like talking to him? Question
• 10:33
  speaking with him? Answer yeah, I don't think I. I
• 10:36
  can't recall if I spoke. I don't think I spoke
• 10:38
  to him. I'm not sure if I did or if
• 10:40
  I didn't. The last time would have been I mean, yeah,
• 10:44
  if I stepped into attorney conference and said something but
• 10:47
  he gets cut off by the investigator. Okay, answer I
• 10:50
  don't recall that. Question, but you don't recall what his
• 10:54
  demeanor was or a state of mind answer that day?
• 10:57
  Question Yeah, you just mentioned the one where he was
• 11:01
  worried because is you know, he gets cut off by
• 11:04
  the lieutenant. Yeah, the first day he got there. Question
• 11:07
  he told the officer. Answer, he's saying an officer, Hey,
• 11:11
  there's this guy up here, his face as well. We
• 11:13
  get those calls all the time. Question do you know
• 11:16
  of any other complaints that were made? Did he ever
• 11:19
  complain to you or you get any other information about it? Answer?
• 11:23
  While he was planning on getting off of Suicide Watch,
• 11:26
  that's about it. Question Okay, And he was making those
• 11:29
  complaints to you about getting off of suicide Watch. Answer,
• 11:33
  he was just saying, why you guys got me Like,
• 11:35
  I'm like, well, you talk to psych and then they'll
• 11:38
  talk to you. And they spoke to him, and he
• 11:40
  went back up. Question and that was this complaint about
• 11:43
  about being he gets cut off by the lieutenant. He
• 11:46
  was saying, why was he in there? He wanted his
• 11:49
  clothes and you know. Question, So he didn't want to
• 11:52
  be on suicide Watch? Answer no, question, is that what
• 11:55
  you're saying? Answer? No, he didn't want to Question so
• 11:59
  he wanted to go back to the shoe. Answer Well,
• 12:01
  he wanted to go Yeah. Question do you know if
• 12:04
  he wanted to be in the shoe or did he
• 12:06
  want to be in a different area? Answer? I don't know.
• 12:09
  Question did he ever tell you? Answer? No, not me.
• 12:12
  Question do you believe that he was in the correct
• 12:15
  place in the shoe or do you believe that he
• 12:16
  should have been on like ten South or G Tier? Answer?
• 12:20
  I mean he can't be in G tier, can't be
• 12:22
  Intense South. He's got to have a bunkie right answer
• 12:26
  question Well, I guess it depends. Do you know what
• 12:29
  the reason why he would need a bunkie? Answer his
• 12:33
  suicide attempt hot list? Question? Do you ever put people
• 12:36
  that are on suicide attempts or hot list in G
• 12:38
  Tier or Tense South so they can have extra eyes
• 12:41
  on them? Answer? I don't think no one Intense South
• 12:45
  is on the hot list. I don't recall. What about
• 12:49
  G tier? What's the deal with G Tier? Like? Who goes?
• 12:53
  He gets cut off by the lieutenant? Single cells? Question? Yeah, yeah,
• 12:57
  but they have cameras in there, right, every one of
• 12:59
  them gets just like ten South? Answer yeah, but nine
• 13:03
  souths some of the cameras and some of those psych cells.
• 13:06
  Question do you believe Epstein should have been in a
• 13:08
  cell with a camera in it? Answer? No? Question no answer.
• 13:12
  I mean, yeah, if you have to have two the
• 13:15
  ones with the camera is a single cell, you can't
• 13:17
  go there, you know. Question, So you believe he should
• 13:21
  have had a cell mate and he should have been
• 13:22
  in the regular shoe, because we've had other people say
• 13:25
  that he should have been on Gtier, should have been
• 13:27
  on ten South. But you believe he gets cut off
• 13:31
  by the lieutenant. People are saying, I mean, if you
• 13:33
  try to commit, like you just showed me the memo, right,
• 13:36
  So either he needs an extra set of eyes on him,
• 13:38
  and then that's even worse. I'm gonna put you in
• 13:41
  there by yourself. You saying for an extended time question
• 13:45
  I guess. But so people are saying, because officers are
• 13:49
  watching those people all the time, are they watching them
• 13:51
  all the time? Answer? How question on the cameras? I
• 13:55
  don't know. Answer no question, So they're not actually being monitored.
• 14:00
  Answer they can't watch No one can watch someone all
• 14:03
  the time. No question. Okay, So you think that it
• 14:06
  would have just been as risky, if not more risky,
• 14:09
  with him being on G Tier or ten South. Answer yeah,
• 14:13
  all right, folks, We're gonna wrap up right here and
• 14:14
  in the next episode, dealing with the topic, we're gonna
• 14:17
  pick up where we left off. All the information that
• 14:19
  goes with this episode can be found in the description box.