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Jordan Tallman on using YouTube to Educate Travel Nurses About Stipends · The Inspired Stories Podcast

0:04
Welcome to another edition of the Inspired Stories podcast,
0:08
where leaders share their experiences so we can learn from
0:11
their successes and be inspired by how they've overcome
0:14
adversity. My name is Anthony Kotaspodi and
0:17
today's guest is Jordan Talman. Jordan is the founder and CEO of
0:21
Wayward Medical Staffing. Founded in 2020, this Phoenix
0:26
based company focuses on helping travel nurses and allied
0:30
healthcare professionals connect with rewarding opportunities.
0:34
Jordan received his degree from Arizona State University and
0:38
previously worked in healthcare recruiting, which prepared him
0:41
to launch his own company at the height of the pandemic.
0:44
Thanks to that experience, he understands the importance of
0:47
treating healthcare providers with respect and care.
0:51
As a result, Wayward Medical was recognized as top rated
0:55
Healthcare staffing for 2025 by great recruiters.
1:00
Today we're going to explore the origin of their motto, Small
1:03
agency, Big Heart 0BS. But before we get into all that
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Back benefits.com. All right, back to our guest
2:03
today, Founder and CEO of Wayward Medical Staffing, Jordan
2:06
Talmuth. Thanks for making the time to
2:08
Share your story today. Yeah, definitely.
2:10
I actually might need to use your services, man.
2:12
I'm in the process of finding new insurance so I we should
2:16
definitely chat about this after the call or on the call.
2:18
Just let me know where the right place is man.
2:21
We'll leave the focus on you for today, but afterwards you and I
2:25
can connect on that for sure. So let's get into your story
2:28
because in 2018, you spent a year, one year as a technical
2:33
recruiter, and then in 2019, you spent one year as a medical
2:38
recruiter. So you had some experience in
2:40
recruiting and even specifically some experience in medical
2:44
recruiting. But I'm Curious, George, what
2:46
gave you the confidence to start your own business after such a
2:50
short period of time in the industry?
2:53
Man, confidence was, I don't know if I had enough.
2:57
I guess I had confidence I did it right.
2:59
I think I had courage more than anything.
3:01
Like I was really scared. I didn't think that I would be
3:04
able to do it, but I just took action during the fear, which
3:08
was like a really tough thing to do.
3:10
I remember there was like a week after I left my company, quit my
3:13
job where I was just paralyzed. I couldn't even work.
3:17
I was just like stuck on the couch like, Oh my God, I don't
3:20
think it's going to go well. And then I, I kind of snapped
3:23
out of it and was like, I'm going to stand in front of my
3:25
computer for 16 hours a day, sleep for 8 hours and I'm just
3:28
going to like try to make this thing work, right.
3:31
And I figured out what kind of some of the needle moving
3:34
activities were. And eventually I trimmed it down
3:37
where I didn't have to work very much at all.
3:39
And it kind of goes in cycles, man.
3:41
Like when you own your own business, it's not the same as
3:45
like when you go to work every day and you work 8 hours and you
3:48
can't wait to leave that. Like it's not the same when the
3:52
business is yours and the opportunity, the potential for
3:55
money, income, your dreams, your vacation, whatever is on you.
4:01
The motivation just changes so much man.
4:03
And you can't wait to work. So if anybody is out there
4:06
thinking about starting a business and you're intimidated
4:09
by all these guys online saying oh man, I work 17 hour days,
4:12
blah blah blah, I grind so hard. You'll want to grind.
4:17
It's like you don't have to brag about it.
4:18
You will enjoy the grind because your incentives are just
4:22
different. Right.
4:24
And I, I think especially it's easier to engage in that grind
4:28
once you get a little bit of momentum, once you taste a
4:30
little bit of success, you're like, oh, now I've got an idea
4:33
on how to do this. I want to do more of it.
4:36
Yeah, definitely that was, I mean, why I guess I have
4:39
confidence to start my own business.
4:40
I've been doing this for two years.
4:42
So I knew how to talk to clients, I knew how to recruit
4:46
candidates. And so I just need to go find my
4:48
own clients, my own candidates. I did it on my lunch break.
4:51
Don't don't tell my company. I did it on my lunch break.
4:54
And I was kind of at a crossroads.
4:57
I, I started my company during COVID.
5:00
So it was kind of a, a huge gold rush, so to speak,
5:03
unfortunately. I mean, no, Noah's not that
5:05
great for everybody else, but in our industry, there's a lot of
5:09
money flowing around. The government printed a bunch
5:11
of money. They gave it to the hospitals,
5:13
the hospitals gave it to the nurses.
5:15
And so we were able to go out there or I was able to find
5:20
contracts on my lunch break, just made a few phone calls.
5:22
Everyone said, yes, we need nurses come help us out.
5:26
And then I was at a crossroads where I was, I was going to fail
5:30
at my business and I was going to fail at my work.
5:33
I was going to get fired because I wouldn't be focused on either
5:36
one of those things, right? I would just be 5050 in both.
5:40
And yeah, I wasn't going to make money at at neither one of them.
5:44
So I I found myself looking at, OK, where am I going to put my
5:48
focus? Where am I going to put my
5:49
attention? And I went all in on on my
5:53
business. And it's been 5 coming up on six
5:56
years here now. So it was definitely a, a good
5:59
decision, but scary as hell, man.
6:01
I I definitely will say that. Take us back to that moment
6:04
where you're working for another company, you're gainfully
6:08
employed, and you make the decision to start moonlighting
6:12
on your lunch. Break.
6:14
Yeah. Well, I what do I want to start
6:20
with this story? This is a good one.
6:21
I that year made 120 grand. So I was, it was the most money
6:25
I'd ever made. The year prior, I'd just started
6:27
recruiting. I made 60 grand.
6:29
That was the most money I ever made.
6:30
I bought a car for $7000. It was some old beater.
6:34
It already been like in a car accident and stuff.
6:36
But man, I was so glad that I bought my first car.
6:40
I think I started my company. I was 29 years old, right?
6:43
So I'm kind of 28 and I just realized when I went and I made
6:49
six figures for the first time in my life, and I love my boss
6:53
and I love the people that I worked with, but I hated working
6:58
for someone else, that that's when I realized it.
7:01
Before that, I had been fired three times in a row and way
7:05
more times than that in general. And I just thought like, oh,
7:08
this boss is an asshole. I got to go find a company
7:11
that's a good company, but it turned out when I found the
7:14
company that I actually like that it was just, Oh no, like
7:17
this whole system isn't for me. I need to go do my own thing.
7:22
I, I kept finding myself not appreciating or liking any of
7:25
the decisions that leadership was making and thinking that I
7:28
knew better and I did know better.
7:30
So I went out and I tried it for myself and now I'm making all
7:34
the same decisions that the leadership was making, but just
7:37
cuz I said to do it, not because they said to do it.
7:41
So it was kind of a, it's a long time to figure out that, you
7:45
know, 10 years almost right to, to realize that the, the
7:48
corporate world just isn't for me and I needed to, to go out
7:50
and do my own thing. What were you doing to get fired
7:53
so many different times? I was just an asshole, honestly,
7:59
man, Like I, I was pretty good at my job sales, right?
8:04
I would make sales, but I cared about the clients probably more
8:08
than the business because that's I interpreted as the clients
8:13
were paying me and so I needed to.
8:15
The clients were my boss and if my boss said do something
8:18
different, I would roll my eyes begrudgingly, maybe do it, But
8:24
most of the time I would just do whatever the clients needed.
8:27
And there's like an argument there you should do.
8:31
I'm trying to think of like a specific thing where that that
8:34
would have occurred. Dude, I had a drinking problem.
8:37
I would drink all the time on the weekends.
8:39
I would like black out. It was really, really bad for a
8:42
long time. But when I started my business,
8:44
I made, I don't know, 5 or 6 placements in kind of my first
8:48
month. And I just had a really good
8:50
week, dude. Everything was coming together
8:52
and I was like, you know what, dude, I'm going to party.
8:54
It's a Thursday. I'm my own boss.
8:56
I don't need to work on Friday. I'm killing it.
8:59
So I'm going to start drinking tonight.
9:00
I'm just going to get so hammered.
9:02
I left my phone outside, downstairs.
9:05
I went upstairs just completely out of it and my nurses needed
9:09
me and I wasn't there for them. I lost three out of the five
9:13
nurses that I had hired and I lost all the progress.
9:16
It was terrible. I was not there for the
9:18
customer. I wasn't there for the client.
9:20
It was, it was disgusting behavior, honestly.
9:23
And that was a real crossroads for me in that moment, 'cause it
9:27
was like, well, do we want this like fun lifestyle business?
9:30
Do you want to build like an actual business?
9:32
Like what? What are we doing here?
9:35
And then I decided to stop drinking.
9:36
I haven't really drinking. It's probably 2021.
9:41
It's like 4 years now. I'll have the occasional like I
9:48
walked into AI, can't remember what party.
9:50
It was like a Memorial Day party and everyone was like taking
9:52
shots and they're like, hey, do you want to have a shot?
9:55
And it would have been like a record scratch.
9:57
And like everyone turned their head if I said no, I'm not going
9:59
to have a you just be like Mr. Boring.
10:01
So like I did one shot whatever, we're having a good time.
10:04
But I just say that to demonstrate that I've have
10:08
control over alcohol. But I hate it when people treat
10:11
you like you go to a party, like, oh, you don't drink, can I
10:14
drink around you? And it's like, dude, I'm not
10:15
like fragile man. Like I just don't like drinking
10:19
but. So was it, was it a pretty
10:22
instant change in your relationship with alcohol after
10:25
that one incident where you blacked out and you weren't
10:27
there for your team? Yeah, I mean, it took some
10:31
therapy, definitely, but it was the, like, motivating factor #1
10:37
and I had known for a long time, like, I don't like my drinking.
10:39
I'm not like a huge fan of it. But it was just, it felt good.
10:43
I had fun. So I'm just going to keep doing
10:44
it. And then that moment was like,
10:46
Oh, no, like I don't want like what I really want to do is my
10:50
business. So there was some therapy
10:54
involved talking through maybe some of the things that were
10:56
kind of driving you to to that behavior.
10:59
Were there other things that you did to help you reframe that
11:04
relationship that you had with alcohol or was that the primary
11:08
driver? Like, I don't know, did you do
11:09
like a like a program like a 12 step or anything like that?
11:13
Yeah, I'm actually really proud of that.
11:14
So I didn't do any 12 step programs.
11:17
I didn't do anything but therapy.
11:18
I've been talking with my therapist.
11:20
I'd already been engaged with him just for, I don't know,
11:23
probably a year at that point. And then I brought to him like,
11:26
hey, man, this alcohol thing, I know I've been saying I don't
11:28
like it, but we're, we're going to stop it.
11:32
And I cried that day, dude. I cried my eyes out.
11:34
And my therapist was like, I believe you.
11:36
I like you're going to do this. And it was tough, man, because
11:40
I, I leaned on the alcohol anytime something was difficult
11:44
or I was feeling inept or whatever.
11:47
That those, you know, there's lots of those feelings,
11:49
especially when you're starting a new business, you don't know
11:51
what's going on. So yeah, I was leaning on that a
11:54
lot. And yeah, I just, I found other
11:57
ways of coping. I found more healthy.
11:59
I go to the gym now. I I left a lot of weight.
12:02
So yeah, I've, I've just found other ways, but I'm really proud
12:06
to have done it on my own and not been.
12:09
I just don't like the 12 step program, man.
12:11
You have to like announce that you're an alcoholic to everybody
12:13
in your life and you got to always be an alcoholic for the
12:16
rest of your life. And this is like your story.
12:18
And that's why I'm like, want to tell everybody, yeah, I can have
12:21
a shot at tequila and not turn into the Tasmanian devil, right.
12:24
Like, it's OK. Yeah.
12:29
That's fascinating. So let's go back to sort of
12:32
those early moments where you are deciding to start your
12:35
business. You're finally at a company that
12:37
you enjoy, you enjoy the people you're working with, you love
12:40
your boss, but it still doesn't feel right.
12:43
And you're like, oh, the problem isn't that I'm working with
12:47
idiots. The problem is that I need to be
12:49
on my own. Like I'm a I'm an alpha.
12:51
I need to drive this. And so you're like, OK, I'm
12:54
going to stick my toe in the water and I'm just going to
12:56
start making some calls on on my lunch hour.
12:59
Yes, this is kind of how the thought process went.
13:01
Exactly, Yeah. Yeah.
13:03
And then at what point did you make the decision that, listen,
13:08
I, I need to go and do this on my own had the pandemic?
13:11
Hit already yeah, so the pandemic kind of helped actually
13:16
because I mean obviously the the industry was was booming, but I
13:22
worked at springboard Healthcare where we specialized in travel
13:27
nursing. So it's 13 week contracts and
13:30
then you you build a book of business right and so you have
13:32
to keep flipping these travellers into contracts.
13:35
Well, we specialized at the cardiac Cath lab, which is non
13:38
invasive heart surgery and it's an elective procedure so you can
13:43
elect to do it you can elect not kind of like a boob job as an
13:46
elective procedure right A little more important than a a
13:49
boob job some would say but so when the pandemic came around
13:54
being an elective procedure, all of the contracts that we had got
13:58
cancelled. It just did one fell swoop like
14:00
one week, boom, my whole paycheck was just like out the
14:03
window. And we found as a company, not
14:06
me, that the sales team found some contracts in New York
14:09
because that's, you know, where all the not to be too dark.
14:13
There was hospitals with piles of body bags to to the ceiling
14:18
right? Like there were footprints all
14:19
over the. Body.
14:20
It really exploded in New York City at the beginning.
14:23
Not good. It was a scary as hell.
14:26
I sent out 10 nurses from some of the local hospitals in
14:31
Arizona, Banner and respiratory therapist, ICU nurses, stuff
14:36
like that. And I, I met them at the
14:38
airport. We did a Native American ritual
14:40
and like blessed everyone going out there.
14:43
These guys are real Cowboys, man.
14:45
They were like, yeah, we're we're going to go to the the
14:47
front front lines here. We want to save people.
14:50
We want to help out. And honestly, like they don't
14:52
even give us the right protective gear at our jobs.
14:55
If we're going to be in danger, we might as well make a couple
14:58
of bucks for it. Like these guys are awesome,
15:00
man. This looks like let's go for it.
15:02
So they went out there. I think they were making like
15:04
$5000 a week or something. And and the top I think, I think
15:08
it was like $10,000 a week. When the real hype of the
15:10
pandemic came around, it was incredible what was happening
15:14
and nobody died, nobody from my team died.
15:18
Everybody did OK, but I got a decent Commission check off of
15:23
that couple months in a row. And then they all got cancelled
15:27
and didn't, you know, need to continue after their thirteen
15:30
week contract. And then I didn't, they were
15:32
just like, I want another $5000 a week contract.
15:34
You don't have that. Well, I'm not, I'm not going to
15:37
work for you then. But there were other companies
15:39
that had them. And so it was this weird, weird
15:41
mix. So I started from, you know, I
15:43
was doing good with the book of 20 nurses.
15:46
They all got cancelled. I sent 10 people over to New
15:49
York. They end, I'm at 0 again.
15:52
I'm looking at the, there's like a sales scoreboard in the in the
15:57
bullpen at our office. And I like made it to the top.
16:00
And I'd only been there for a year.
16:02
And I was like, dude, I'm like, I'm pretty good.
16:04
I'm doing all right, man. I looked at my paycheck and I
16:08
looked at the scoreboard and there was a comma missing on my
16:11
paycheck. And I was like, dude, that's a
16:13
that's a lot of zeros that I'm missing there.
16:16
I wonder, like, what if I did this for myself?
16:19
Could I get some extras? Could I make that extra comma?
16:21
You know, and that was kind of like the start of me trying to
16:25
figure out like, maybe this is not only do I not fit in to this
16:30
kind of environment, but maybe there's a pot of gold on on the
16:33
other side of this rainbow. So when you say you were missing
16:36
a comma, had they shortchanged you?
16:38
Oh no. So I just the revenue that I
16:42
brought in for the company was different than the Commission
16:44
check that I made. So 6 figures compared to seven
16:47
figures, right? Got it.
16:49
OK. And so the pandemic hits up and
16:54
to the right. You'd make the decision that
16:57
you're going to go off on your own and then things slow down at
17:01
some point, right? Like I've talked to lots of
17:05
folks in staffing, but medical staffing in particular.
17:08
And at the beginning of the pandemic, business was up and to
17:11
the right, just an explosion that nobody had ever seen
17:13
before. And then as we started to return
17:16
to some kind of a new normal, not only did it level off, but
17:22
like overcorrected. What was your experience like
17:25
during that time? Yeah, I IA lot of times say
17:30
we're so small that we're not seeing the macro trends and
17:33
we're trying to grow to be a big company that would see the macro
17:35
trends. But what happened to me?
17:39
What happened, I, as a new entrepreneur, put all my eggs in
17:44
one client basket because they needed help and had plenty of
17:48
money. And that client was also a
17:51
recruiting company who just needed my some extra help
17:55
basically. And then when that extra help,
17:57
they didn't need it anymore. I had built my business on
18:00
helping them. And they were just like, yeah,
18:02
see a man like get out, get lost, basically.
18:05
And so I had to, I had hired a team to services client and the
18:10
team wasn't able to, I didn't train them because I didn't know
18:13
how to do anything but services client.
18:16
So when we were like floundering to get more sales, I was the
18:20
only one who was able to get any more sales.
18:22
You're. The only one who had sales
18:23
experience at that point. Yeah, exactly.
18:25
And so I had to let go of my whole team basically, except for
18:29
like somebody in my credentialing department,
18:31
administrative side. And yeah, that was really tough,
18:35
man. I was like, I felt like I made
18:37
poor decisions that affected other people's lives.
18:41
And man, I don't, I don't want to have to fire people because I
18:45
messed up. I want to fire people because
18:46
they messed up. Like that's, that sucks, man.
18:50
So that was a, that was a big pill of responsibility that I
18:53
had to take and built another team since then.
18:55
And you know, we're, we're doing well, but I think my first year
18:59
we did when I when I started by myself $1,000,000 in revenue,
19:05
which like just barely like crossed over it by like the last
19:08
week, got a couple extra bucks in there.
19:11
And then year 2II hired a couple people with a 2.5 million and
19:17
then ice cream. We've been growing.
19:20
I think we what's, what's that client did away with me.
19:23
We stayed at 2.5 million. But then we've made another jump
19:26
since we've built A-Team to about 4 million And this year
19:29
we're looking to do 10 million. So I'm, I'm very excited about
19:31
that. Looking to get, excuse me,
19:36
looking to get recruiters in place so that we can I, I think
19:39
it's just a, a butts in seats. I need more people dialing the
19:42
phones, more people building relationships and that that's
19:46
really it. I've got plenty of jobs.
19:47
We just got to put the people together.
19:49
So here's the part I want to understand.
19:50
When you lost the one client that you had, you go into the
19:54
next year and you still make the same revenue.
19:56
How did you guys pivot so quickly?
19:59
That's a that's a really good point.
20:00
I missed like a very key part of that story, right?
20:03
Well, I did the This was like the scariest time, dude, I was
20:05
crying. I was like going at a personal
20:08
trainer at the time. I was drinking all the fizzy
20:10
waters, 1000 fizzy waters a week.
20:13
Dude, I was spending so much money on fizzy waters and.
20:16
That was like a source of comfort.
20:17
For you. Yeah, I loved it.
20:18
I was trying to lose weight. I was losing a lot of weight.
20:21
It was it was a great time. And then the business, the
20:24
wheels fell off right. And I'm like going to my
20:27
personal trainer, like dude, what do I do?
20:29
I can't make any more money but tears coming out of my eyes,
20:31
right? And so I stopped spending any
20:35
money. No more personal trainer, no
20:37
more fizzy waters. I have no more water like water
20:39
bottles, nothing. I'm drinking water out of the
20:41
faucet basically, right. I am standing in front of my
20:44
computer 16 hours a day freaking out just doing recruiting
20:49
anything I can, every phone call that I can to make sure this
20:52
happens. Hindsight 2020.
20:53
I didn't have to go like monk mode like I did.
20:56
I was just like freaking the freak out.
20:59
I could have just been fine, but just focused on recruiting a
21:03
little bit more. The number one needle mover for
21:06
me in that time on on why we stayed so successful.
21:10
Not only just that commitment to staying in front of the
21:12
computer, but I took a trip to my potential clients that I've
21:17
been talking to, met them all in person, signed contracts.
21:21
We do a lot of business in Montana.
21:23
So just going out there and shaking hands and kissing
21:26
babies. That's the, that was the move
21:28
that I think in our industry, most people are just doing phone
21:31
calls, text messages and they're just blowing up these hospitals
21:35
and coming in and seeing them in person, knowing the, the places
21:38
that we are working with, we're sending nurses to and having
21:41
that personal relationship with them.
21:43
I've I've visited multiple times because it was so successful
21:47
that that was the the key to success there was relationships.
21:51
And so were you visiting the places that you already had
21:53
relationships with, or you were going to places that you had not
21:56
yet done any business with to forge and start that
21:59
relationship? It was both, it was new and some
22:04
clients that were not necessarily mine, but the
22:08
company that I was working with worked with them, but they
22:11
vaguely kind of knew of me. So I, I went in there and said,
22:14
hey, I'm this guy. You probably don't know who I
22:16
am, but I wanted to introduce myself.
22:19
Would love to do business with ya.
22:21
And I probably signed 10 or 15 contracts on, on one trip.
22:26
I I went to Billings, Mt and then drove all the way to
22:29
Missoula, Mt back and I just hit every single hospital to and
22:34
from all the way there. And what was it that you were
22:37
telling them that was so compelling?
22:38
I mean, 10 or 15 on one sales trip is pretty incredible.
22:43
Not just, hey, let's talk or let's keep the conversation
22:46
going, but to get that many contracts signed, you were doing
22:49
something right. Yeah, that's a good.
22:52
I've never thought about that man.
22:53
I appreciate that. I did.
22:54
I did do pretty good that that trip.
22:58
I mean, I think there was some people that just kind of knew of
23:00
me, the ones that didn't know me.
23:03
I mean, I think it's industry specific, honestly.
23:06
Montana travel nursing in general, there's an insane
23:09
shortage. There's not enough nurses for
23:11
the amount of jobs that there are.
23:12
So that's why there's a travel nursing industry.
23:15
Montana is an extremely, it's a large state, but extremely
23:18
sparse. There's only a million people in
23:20
the whole state. It's like near the size of
23:22
Texas. So it's the middle of nowhere
23:26
and it's a drive 4 hours, the middle of nowhere to show up and
23:30
say, hey, I'd love to work with you.
23:32
I do this thing I think went such a a long way in people's
23:36
minds because I was separating myself from the rest of the
23:41
competition who are just calling them, not really giving a shit.
23:45
Hey, smile and dial whatever click.
23:47
I don't care. Me taking the time to go out
23:50
there and meet people I, I one of the guys literally was like,
23:53
man, you're flying here in person yeah sign the contract
23:56
right now. I I got a set contract same day
23:59
that's. Incredible.
24:01
Have you employed that strategy in other parts of the country
24:06
where maybe there isn't that geographical challenge and maybe
24:09
more of your competitors are visiting in person?
24:13
Yeah, I tried it in Phoenix, where where I'm from, and it
24:17
just was like a fart an elevator, man.
24:19
It did not go over well at all. Everyone was like, get out of
24:23
here. They don't care if you have
24:24
doughnuts or cookies. Like we'll accept them, but also
24:27
you can leave now, right? So that was not that successful.
24:31
I will say I just moved to Missouri and there's a lot of
24:34
critical access hospitals out here, hospitals in the middle of
24:37
nowhere basically. And that's that's like our bread
24:40
and butter. That's our niche, the Montana's
24:42
critical access. There's the hospitals that don't
24:45
have a lot of populate population density around them
24:48
to support the the workforce that's needed.
24:50
Is that kind of the? Exactly.
24:52
Yeah, Thanks for the context. Yeah.
24:54
So critical access, if you picture a town of 800 people
24:58
where there's not even a doctor that lives in town, right?
25:01
They've got to pay extra money just for a guy that to visit
25:05
three days a week or whatever, right.
25:07
So we that's we import nurses from other States and towns
25:10
basically. And so here in Missouri, there's
25:13
a lot of that critical access middle of nowhere hospitals.
25:17
And I'm going to be doing a driving around doing the same
25:20
thing here, pretty. Soon, OK.
25:23
In Missouri, is that why you moved there, was to take
25:26
advantage of the opportunities there?
25:29
I wish I was that adept of a salesperson and businessman.
25:33
We moved for my wife. She's her family's from out
25:37
here. She grew up out here.
25:39
We're trying to build a family right now.
25:41
So working on our first baby and yeah, hopefully, well, not
25:47
hopefully also we're going to sign some contracts and it's
25:51
we're just going to make whatever work work, right.
25:53
So that's that's where I'm at. So how does what you're doing
25:56
now look different than what you were doing, you know, a few
26:00
years ago at the height of the pandemic?
26:03
Yeah, the, the bill rates are a lot lower.
26:08
Everyone's charging or everyone's paying a lot less, as
26:11
much as I would want to charge more.
26:13
So we're the unit economics have really flipped on its head in
26:19
the travel nursing industry. The nurses want, you know, they
26:22
got spoiled. They are making five, $10,000 a
26:24
week. Everyone says there's these
26:26
memes online travel nursing is dead, dude.
26:28
This shit sucks now. And they're all complaining and
26:31
reasonably so. I mean, I'd probably be one of
26:33
those guys. Knowing how much of A shithead
26:36
employee I was, I'd, I'd definitely be saying the same
26:38
things that they are. So we've had to figure out, I
26:43
mean, most of the the billion dollar players in our industry
26:46
are offshoring, right? They're taking everybody to the
26:49
Philippines, India, and they're really decreasing the unit
26:52
economics because there's just an insane amount of margin
26:55
pressure, right, that the margins are.
26:57
So they're going to the Philippines and they're finding
26:59
nurses to bring over here to work.
27:02
So yes, that is one of the strategies for sure.
27:05
I think some of the recent, the government's policies have kind
27:10
of flipped that. And I don't know if it still
27:12
makes a ton of sense for them to do that.
27:14
It's, it sounds like it could be pretty expensive.
27:17
Still yet to be seen TBD. We'll, we'll see how that turns
27:19
out. But the the Philippines and
27:22
India, not just nurses are they getting from there, but they're
27:25
taking the, the recruitment team, their credentialing team,
27:28
their administrative offices, They're paying, you know, 5-7
27:33
different people in India for one local American recruiter
27:38
here. And they're from what I've
27:41
heard, a lot of the recruiters offshore make more submissions.
27:47
They have a lot more activity. They're smiling and dialing a
27:51
lot harder and they are making less placements.
27:56
So there's no like relationship there is what that tells me.
27:59
So I think it, I think they're saying like.
28:02
Top of funnel looks bigger, bottom of the sales funnel not
28:06
so healthy. Exactly, exactly.
28:08
So there's just like a piece missing there and what I my
28:12
strategy because I'm not a billion dollar player.
28:14
And I honestly, I think the customer service struggles
28:18
massively. I mean, not only is there the
28:20
language barrier, but there's also just a culture barrier
28:24
where you're, you're expecting a, a service to be expected to
28:28
be helped in, in a certain way. And it's just, it's a different
28:31
way out there and there's just a mismatch there.
28:34
Maybe you can cross that bridge at some point with great
28:36
training. I haven't seen it done yet, but
28:40
it's, it's a tough problem to solve.
28:42
The problem that I want to solve though is not decreasing the
28:44
unit economics on that side. I want to keep the customer
28:48
service really high. I think that's as a small
28:50
business where we can out compete the other company.
28:53
But if we're doing that like we won't make any money, right.
28:58
So we have to figure out how we can decrease or improve the unit
29:03
economics in another way. And so I'm still early on into
29:07
this plan. I've got, you know, some things
29:10
that are, that are coming around here, but I've started the
29:12
YouTube channel. It's very early on.
29:15
It's my, my first crack. I've got like 5 videos up there.
29:18
They're all right. But I've, I've engaged in how
29:22
to, how to build something on YouTube to build trust and
29:25
basically the strategy that we're employing.
29:29
I want, I want to build a fandom.
29:31
I want people to appreciate what we do.
29:33
And then if you want to work with us, you don't have to, but
29:36
you can click the link below and check out our website, right?
29:39
So we want to drive traffic this way instead of paying for, I
29:44
mean, all of these indeed and Vivian and you know, there's,
29:48
there's all of these companies that are, you know, driving lead
29:50
flow and they are incredibly expensive.
29:53
I hear all of the different, my peers and other companies
29:58
complaining about some of the, the wild practices that they do.
30:02
Like they'll charge 60% more than they're supposed to do in a
30:06
month. And it's your duty to go in and
30:09
actually like dispute all of the different charges.
30:12
And I mean, specifically to do that, right?
30:15
Like, that's wild and. So do you not use any of these
30:18
platforms like indeed? I there's a couple trusted ones
30:22
in the travel nursing industry. I use TNS that's been by far my
30:26
favorite. I know the owner.
30:27
Shout out to Oliver Feekins, one of my favorite entrepreneurs of
30:32
all time. Oliver Feekins just ethical.
30:35
His team loves him. I've been, I've not I've not
30:38
seen a better run business. And the results that I get from
30:41
his leads are excellent. You have to use some kind of
30:44
different strategies. A lot of people just think, well
30:47
on indeed, the candidate applied to my job and now I should get
30:50
the his, his leads are a little bit more cold.
30:53
So you have to do cold strategy leads, right?
30:56
Like that's the name of the game.
30:58
So you just have to realize that that's the name of the game and
31:00
then play that game and you'll be successful no problem.
31:03
So I think a lot of people don't realize that until they, you
31:07
know, start figuring it out. So want to want to get the word
31:10
out for for their there's different kind of leads, you got
31:13
to use different kinds of strategies to engage with those
31:15
leads. So I use TNS, big fan of them.
31:19
And I'm forgetting what the initial question was because I
31:21
had somewhere to go and it's just gone now.
31:24
I kind of lost it too. Oh, we were talking about, you
31:27
know, the do you use any of these platforms for your own
31:30
recruiting? Because your strategy, your
31:32
thinking now, and it's still early days is, hey, can I use
31:37
those platforms less by sort of drawing my own audience and by
31:42
putting out really useful content for them?
31:45
Exact. So inbound is the instead of
31:47
doing cold calls outbound, I want leads to come to us.
31:51
And so how can I make something so interesting, helpful, useful
31:56
that people will watch our content and not just like, I
32:00
don't know, goofy tik toks about here's my day at the office,
32:03
right? Like there's this large
32:05
knowledge gap in our industry with travel nurses.
32:07
They're on Reddit, they're on Facebook groups and they're
32:10
complaining everyday about getting screwed over by some
32:14
travel nursing company and how a travel nursing company is
32:17
stealing their wages. And it's, I mean, this has been
32:19
going on for years, right? So there, there's there's a gap.
32:23
A lot of these travel nursing companies are billion dollar
32:26
agencies. They're not it'd be really crazy
32:29
to if they were actually stealing, right?
32:31
I think there's just a knowledge gap and I can improve the nurses
32:36
lives if I can help them close that knowledge gap so they can
32:40
stop guessing and start winning, right?
32:43
So I want to pull the curtain back on how everything works and
32:47
just do that. I'm doing that everyday in my
32:49
like I'm talking 1 to 1 to candidates and teaching them how
32:53
it works. This is what it like my everyday
32:55
talk track. I'm just going to apply that 2
32:58
videos and then do one to many instead of 1 to 1.
33:02
So where do you think the knowledge gap is?
33:04
I'm assuming that most of the are they W2 employees?
33:07
Are they 1099 They're. All W2 yeah.
33:09
OK. So is the gap that they don't
33:12
understand that is AW2, that you need to take out payroll taxes
33:16
and Social Security and all that stuff, Is that where the
33:19
confusion's happening? Well, there's I don't know if
33:21
you're familiar with stipends at all for for travel nursing,
33:25
they're. Go ahead, explain for our
33:26
audience. Yeah, they're in a lot of
33:27
different industries. So there's a non taxable stipend
33:30
that you get for traveling somewhere outside of 50 miles
33:34
from your home. So if you're staying the night
33:37
somewhere else and and if there's, it's not very, it's
33:42
very what is the what is it where it's hotly debated, the 50
33:47
mile rule, even what I'm telling you right now, it's just kind of
33:50
like a the the rule of thumb, so to speak, that a lot of agencies
33:55
use. There's so much nuance that goes
33:57
into this different court cases, it documents.
34:00
It's a nightmare even for the agencies to keep up with.
34:02
And so it's tough for them to train the recruiters to tell the
34:06
nurses what's going on. And so it's this game of
34:08
telephone with you start with this like super nuanced crazy
34:11
document, and then it goes like 17 other places and on the other
34:14
side pops out a pissed off travelers, right.
34:18
And so the, the stipends are basically if you're more than 50
34:21
miles from your tax home, then you qualify for a traveler
34:26
stipend and you have to kind of stay the night.
34:29
There's a couple other things, but we'll just that's where it's
34:31
at for for basics. And that that non taxable
34:35
stipend is really great because instead of me paying you 100
34:39
bucks an hour, I can pay you 50 bucks an hour plus the other 50
34:43
bucks in non taxable stipends. And so that's really great
34:47
because it's kind of like you're making 100 bucks an hour.
34:50
You literally are. But because the government's
34:52
only taxing half of it, it's really like you're making 100
34:55
and 10120 bucks an hour because that money stays in your pocket.
34:59
And So what happens is there was a law passed where you're not
35:05
allowed to deduct stipends because they're for doubling
35:08
your expenses when you're staying overnight somewhere
35:10
else. But if a, if a agency cannot
35:15
bill a facility for the hours that they worked, right, if a
35:17
nurse works 0 hours, the agency can't pay that nurse's siphons.
35:22
So they're not able to like they can't give them zero, but there.
35:28
Has to be some kind of base of billable hours there in order to
35:32
qualify for the stipend. And so if a nurse is in Montana
35:36
and there were no billable hours that week, they're paying for
35:39
that hotel and their meals out of their own pocket.
35:42
Exactly. Exactly.
35:43
And this upsets the nurses when they don't get their stipend and
35:47
the agencies don't like that they're not able to pay and it
35:50
hurts their brand credibility. So just getting out there and,
35:54
and telling people like teaching people how the siphons work.
35:57
Where are the stipends? Or garnet 'cause there's a, a
36:00
cap for sipe. You can't just pay someone all
36:02
your money in siphons. You have to have AW two piece
36:06
and then a stipend piece. And the stipend is governed by
36:08
the GSA, the Government Services Administration, if I remember
36:12
correctly. And that's where you can look
36:14
depending on zip code, how much you would qualify for.
36:18
So like in San Francisco, you qualify for 300 bucks a day.
36:22
And it's based on like cost of living, how much a hotel will
36:25
cost, things like that. In rural Montana, you get $110 a
36:29
day, right? So there's, there's kind of a
36:31
difference there. And a lot of nurses like they
36:33
walk into this and they're like, well, why do I get 300 bucks
36:36
here and 110 bucks? Are you chipping me?
36:37
Am I being scammed right now? And so that's like a lot of the,
36:42
just the information that you could cover and then teaching
36:45
people on, you know, your stipends can be deducted.
36:48
Some companies do it this way, other companies do it that way.
36:52
And so just getting out there and closing that knowledge gap,
36:54
I think it's going to solve a lot of problems.
36:56
And if people can know me as the, oh, he helps me figure out
36:59
how to win at travel nursing. Well, he does travel nursing as
37:03
well. Maybe I'll sign up with him.
37:04
I don't know. We'll see how it goes.
37:06
And so that's that's kind of my plan is to bring value to the
37:09
nurses, help them accomplish their goals.
37:11
Even if it's not working with me, I just want you to be
37:14
successful. But then if you like me like,
37:16
you can work with me like no problem.
37:18
Yeah. Have you seen others, either in
37:21
your own industry or similar industries, employ the same
37:24
strategy with success? Yeah, I mean, this is what
37:28
helped me stop drinking, right? Was this philosophy podcast
37:32
called Freedomade Radio. And it's a, it is a donation
37:38
model. And he would always talk about
37:41
the law of reciprocity. And so you give, give, give, and
37:45
then in return, like people will want to get back to you.
37:49
Not everybody, right? 9% of every listener to a
37:52
podcast doesn't donate. But if you ask people and say,
37:56
hey, look, I'm providing value. I'm out here trying to, you
37:59
know, put the best podcast together for you that I possibly
38:01
can. I'm reading books, I'm
38:02
interviewing experts, you know, if you want to throw me a
38:06
dollar, buy me a coffee, whatever, you're welcome to.
38:09
And that's that's the best model that that I'm the hugest fan
38:13
with. And then so that was Stefan
38:15
Mullen in Freedom Made Radio. Listening to him was incredible.
38:18
And then I saw Alex Hormuzi. I'm sure most people are
38:21
familiar, but just for the people who are not, he's a
38:24
private equity guy, but he started off in the fitness
38:27
world. I saw him do this for me as far
38:31
as like business content knowledge education goes.
38:35
And he so he just does it on YouTube and every platform now
38:38
he started on YouTube, I think, but he builds this relationship
38:43
with his audience by helping us out, figuring out just business
38:46
concepts, pricing concepts, you know, how to just get to
38:49
whatever the next level is in your business.
38:52
And then at the end he says like, you know, if you want to
38:53
learn more, sign up for, you know, he's got a, a course, you
38:56
pay 5 grand, you go to Vegas, you see him in person, he
38:59
teaches you more information and then that, you know, levels up
39:02
to this and that. But the eventual thing, he does
39:04
all this stuff for free. He's not selling you anything
39:07
because he wants to buy your company, right?
39:10
And so if he, you know, if it makes sense, you guys work
39:12
together, he'll purchase your company and you know, all that
39:14
stuff. But that's his business model
39:18
for mergers and acquisitions. Sorry so.
39:23
I I like this concept. I've had multiple guests on the
39:26
show talk about a similar sort of give first mentality.
39:29
The one that comes top of mind actually has written a book on
39:32
it, Brad Feld from Oh Boy Foundry BC.
39:38
And the the general idea, as he frames it anyways, is right to
39:43
always give first approach a relationship in a in a non
39:47
transactional way from the perspective of what can I do for
39:50
you? How can I help you with the
39:53
understanding that at some point, however you want to call
39:56
it, karma, the universe, whatever is going to bring that
40:00
goodness back to you? Not necessarily from that same
40:04
person that you just gave to and you know, not necessarily in a
40:07
short time frame, but in a collective whole.
40:10
The more good that you put out there, the more good that
40:13
returns to you. Is this kind of how you see it
40:15
or is a little bit of a different angle for you?
40:18
Yeah, I mean, different words, same, same concept for sure.
40:21
Yeah, yeah. So your tagline, small agency,
40:26
big heart, zero BS. Tell us about that.
40:30
Yeah, I mean, it just goes into me trying to educate the
40:33
industry. There are I, I've seen I've sat
40:36
next to so many BS recruiters who just, sometimes they're just
40:43
misinformed and it's no big deal.
40:45
Maybe they're improperly trained.
40:47
Sometimes they flat out lie. Sometimes, you know, they can
40:50
kind of use some used car salesman.
40:52
Not kind of sometimes they use used car salesman tactics.
40:56
And it was disgusting to me. It was really gross.
40:58
I hated it. It always would eventually blow
41:01
up in their faces. I mean, these are like small
41:04
lessons that you learn as a kid. Like, hey, don't lie because you
41:06
don't want to have to remember all the lies that you told,
41:08
right? And it just it blows up.
41:11
It gives the industry a bad name.
41:12
Nurses are pissed off about recruiters.
41:14
And so we want to be different by training our recruiters well,
41:18
not doing any BS, being transparent about the bill
41:21
rates. I have a YouTube video up right
41:23
now where I show how much money my company makes off of one
41:26
travel nursing contract. It's.
41:28
Oh, interesting. Yeah.
41:29
It's total transparency, isn't it?
41:31
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
41:32
And I, I show you, you know, we charge 100 bucks an hour for you
41:37
working here. You get paid 85.
41:39
I don't keep the whole $15. Some of it goes to insurance.
41:42
I got to pay for malpractice just in case you kill somebody.
41:45
I hope you don't, you know, and, and, and just showing like a lot
41:48
of the travel nurses hate agencies and they think we're
41:51
just like stealing money from them.
41:53
And it's like, dude, I find you a job and then I keep you
41:56
employed. Like I keep you working more
41:58
contracts, right? And I'm working in the
42:00
background. I'm doing sales.
42:01
Like you can do this yourself. You like, I'm not saying that
42:04
you can't. You definitely can, but going
42:06
through me is a lot easier and it's worth that extra 15 bucks
42:10
to not have to work three jobs, right?
42:12
You don't have to do sales and find your own contracts.
42:15
You don't have to keep your certifications up like I will
42:17
take care of all this for you but like it does cost you 50
42:21
bucks an hour dude. Like that seems like a.
42:23
Pretty good value to me. You mentioned that some of your
42:26
competitors are using used car salesman techniques.
42:29
What are some of the shady things that you've seen done out
42:31
there? Just flat out lying, man.
42:34
So like these travel nurses are going cross country.
42:36
Like picture living in Florida and then going to Seattle,
42:40
right? They're driving from Florida to
42:42
Seattle and they tell them it's a day shift, you know, contract,
42:46
it's 3 twelves. You're going to work three days
42:48
a week, 12 hours a day. And then they get there and it
42:51
is a night shift contract and it's 5 eights and like they're
42:56
going to work five days a week, 8 hours a day and night shift,
43:00
dude, I'm not a night shift worker, right?
43:02
So but I'm here and I'm in Seattle.
43:04
Like what am I going to do? I guess I'll just change my
43:07
entire life right now because I I halfway did already.
43:10
So that that's an incredibly unpleasant experience.
43:14
Yeah, man, like just a bad. There's that tenfold.
43:17
This happens all the time. And so just by taking care like
43:22
checking the boxes, that's how it's like Michael Jordan is the
43:25
best ever. So he wasn't doing a bunch of
43:26
like fancy shit on the court. He was practicing how to dribble
43:30
with his left hand, how to dribble with his right hand.
43:31
Here's a layout. He did this a billion times and
43:34
he never didn't check the box. And so because he practiced the
43:37
basics, that made him the greatest.
43:39
And so just by doing the every single time, the basics, that's
43:45
how we're good. So telling them about, hey, you
43:48
know, you get 36 guaranteed hours every single week.
43:50
You know, your 312 hour shifts. But they do have a cancellation
43:54
policy. This facility, you know, you
43:56
could be cancelled one day and you don't get your guaranteed
44:00
hours out of your whole 13 weeks.
44:01
You could be cancelled one day. And then when that happens,
44:04
they're not surprised, they're not pissed.
44:06
Their expectations were set accordingly.
44:08
So that could be another unpleasant thing to happen that
44:12
you see complaints on Reddit all the time about.
44:16
Earlier in the conversation, you mentioned something about giving
44:19
your workers a Native American blessing.
44:22
Do you have Native American heritage or what was behind
44:26
that? No, no, I didn't.
44:28
I I'm not qualified to give anyone any blessings.
44:31
I that would be really cool if I was.
44:34
No, there was one of the respiratory therapists we worked
44:37
with. He was Native American and his
44:40
father came and did the blessing for like his father didn't go.
44:43
He wasn't a travel nurse, but his father did a blessing on all
44:46
10 of the travel nurses. And me too, because I got to
44:49
like go meet him and stuff. So it's kind of cool.
44:51
Well, let's say, and what, what was it?
44:53
Was it sort of like burning some sage and like kind of clearing
44:57
the, the energy? What?
44:58
What was the process like? Yeah, we were at the Phoenix
45:00
airport. We were outside.
45:02
It was like 4 in the morning. It's dark and we all kind of
45:07
lined up. We put our bags down or I didn't
45:09
have my bags, but they all put their bags down, stood shoulder
45:13
to shoulder and he burned some sage.
45:16
He said some words, complete foreign language.
45:19
So I wasn't sure what they were. And it was just a a small
45:24
ceremony. Yeah.
45:26
As I hear you talk about and remind me the numbers where you
45:29
guys were in revenue last year, where you anticipate being this
45:32
year? Yeah.
45:33
So 4 million last year and this year I'm going to, I've got the
45:37
plan in place, hire 5 to 7 recruiters to get to 10 million
45:41
in revenue. OK.
45:43
That's excessive growth, I mean accelerated growth.
45:47
Where does the confidence come from to get from 4 to 10 in one
45:50
year? It's a big jump.
45:51
I appreciate it, man. Well, it's working backwards.
45:54
It's where we want to be. How do we want to get there?
45:57
I'm a big fan of Doctor Benjamin Hardy and he is, he's been
46:02
writing a lot of books. I think I actually right behind
46:05
my head. It's like, this is a podcast, so
46:08
probably nobody can look at what I'm doing, but there's a.
46:10
We do video too, yeah. There's a book up there who not
46:15
how he's written, but one of his his newest books is How to.
46:23
Then I read it. It's been a while.
46:26
It's just, if you want to grow, everybody thinks like, oh, just
46:29
real small incrementally, but that just typically ends up and
46:33
you doing a little bit more of what you're already doing and
46:36
you're not doing the radical changes needed to accomplish
46:39
that bigger goal. And so you have to think 3X10X.
46:43
And in thinking that way, it's a lot easier to accomplish your
46:46
goal. So it's like, oh, can I make
46:48
five more phone calls a day? And would that give me extra
46:50
$1,000,000 of revenue? What if our whole team made five
46:52
more phone calls? No, no, no.
46:54
We need five more people. We're all making five more phone
46:57
calls. So we have to take a different
46:58
approach to, you know, get knock that bigger goal out of the
47:02
park, right. And so it's the forcing of
47:05
thinking differently that will change your actions to
47:10
accomplish those much bigger goals.
47:13
Is there any concern about bringing on so many new people
47:16
all at once and stretching yourself too thin?
47:19
Yeah, I have no idea how to do this for sure.
47:21
That's. I love the honesty.
47:24
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I've been working on
47:26
doing this for a long time. This is like my third try at
47:29
building a team. So I had to let go of that one
47:32
team when the the wheels fell off on the story I told earlier.
47:36
And then I I just had to let go like two or three people pretty
47:40
recently this week, I let go of one of them and that was, that's
47:43
been pretty difficult. So I'm learning what hiring is.
47:46
I think I'm trying to solve the right problems here.
47:48
I think most entrepreneurs, the name of the game when they, they
47:51
get to a certain point is like putting the right people in the
47:54
right places. And so I'm very excited about
47:56
that and learning how to do training, how to do like, I can
48:02
do it myself. I can be an individual
48:03
contributor, but learning to be a manager and, and watching the
48:06
KPIs and enforcing the KPIs, that's been a real learning
48:10
curve for me because I want to be liked.
48:12
I want everybody to think I'm cool and I want to think they're
48:14
cool too. And that's not the most in a
48:18
management place, that's not the most helpful as a manager.
48:22
Like you will be liked when you provide a stable place for
48:27
everyone to work where everyone can expect like consistency, I
48:32
guess you would say. And they're not going to like
48:34
you if you made a funny joke at the meeting yesterday, right?
48:37
Like it's, it's, it's a lot different being like liked in
48:41
this position and like having to learn that has been painful at
48:44
times, but it's incredible, man. Like I love growth and yeah
48:49
dude, like it's growth is hard, but I I love getting better, so
48:54
let's. Talk about growth, because in my
48:56
experience, our biggest growth opportunities come from
49:01
overcoming some of the biggest challenges in our life.
49:04
Yes. What is an example for you big
49:07
challenge that you overcame, how you got through it and what you
49:11
learned? Man, I want to tell my drinking
49:15
story but we already used that story so I'm trying to.
49:18
I don't have anything locked and loaded right now man.
49:20
Let me try and think of something.
49:24
Is there a, a different angle to come at that drinking story or
49:30
is there another challenge that you've overcome?
49:32
Maybe it's something that you're overcoming now.
49:34
I mean, you're talking about, you know, having to let people
49:39
go recently. It sounds like, tell me if I'm
49:42
connecting the dots correctly, that these were individuals that
49:48
you need people, you need people to for the growth, but they just
49:50
weren't the right people in the right seats.
49:53
Yeah, I've been definitely the first that I just let go as a
49:58
person. I like it.
49:59
He's a good dude, funny says. Like I appreciate his presence
50:04
in in the meetings and what not. He was, he was a good guy to
50:06
have around and he made placements.
50:08
He was bringing, he was generating revenue for the
50:10
company. Maybe not enough placements if
50:13
he was making so many placements that I couldn't say shit to him
50:15
and that's another story. But the problem that I
50:20
encountered with this person was he wasn't providing the correct
50:25
or any amount of customer service.
50:26
There was no relationship building going on.
50:29
And even if you are making money for the company and probably
50:32
would, you know, it would be enough to stay employed because
50:35
there's no relationship. I, I, I can't, I tried to train
50:39
that. I tried multiple times on, Hey,
50:42
watch this video at one minute, 34 seconds.
50:44
It's going to talk about this concept.
50:46
I want you to employ that concept.
50:48
The next time you're on a phone call, I go listen to the phone
50:51
calls. The concept is just, it's like
50:53
you never even watched a video. And I've, I've done this many
50:57
times. It just wasn't, I don't know if
50:59
it wasn't clicking or if he wasn't interested in doing the
51:01
work, right. I, I investigated with him, I
51:04
would talk to him about it every single week and it just wasn't
51:07
there. And so even though he was
51:09
bringing the money, which is kind of a tough decision, it's
51:12
like, well, I mean, we can just keep him around.
51:13
But not having relationships with the nurses and building our
51:17
brand and, you know, gaining credibility in the market share
51:20
market space I think was hurting us more than, you know, 5 bucks
51:24
for, you know, whatever, however much we make for a dollar for,
51:28
you know, one contract being completed.
51:32
So let's explore that for a moment.
51:33
It was a guy who was performing reasonably well in terms of, you
51:37
know, bringing in revenue for the company.
51:39
But the customer service component, which is so important
51:42
to you and your company's brand was just not there.
51:46
You're trying to provide the training.
51:48
I'm curious, did you try role-playing at all?
51:51
Like hey, watch this video and then let you and I try it out
51:54
together. Yeah, definitely.
51:57
And he would say that he knows the one question I would ask him
52:01
to ask his me and then others was how do you take your coffee?
52:07
Just a conversation starter, little goofy off the wall.
52:11
And he would just always say it never came up.
52:13
And I'm like, well, ask me how I take my coffee.
52:15
And then you asked me and I'm like, well, it just came up
52:17
because you brought it up. And so like, just just ask the
52:20
question, like, what are we talking about?
52:23
And I remember there was one day he asked me just just the other
52:27
week, what are you doing for New Year's?
52:29
And I was like, Oh my God, man, you're are you building a
52:32
relationship with me right now? You're doing it, dude.
52:34
Like please use that on the phones.
52:36
So he just went right to business.
52:38
There was no like personal rapport there.
52:41
There no chitchat about your day of your life, etcetera.
52:44
That was kind of what was rubbing you wrong.
52:46
OK, yeah. And so he's selling the jobs and
52:49
we don't always have the best jobs, man.
52:51
Like some of them are great and but not all of them.
52:53
And a lot of people won't go to them unless like you can sell
52:57
them into going to them. And I, I just, I saw a lot of
53:02
badgering. A lot of people felt badgered by
53:05
like, hey, sign the contract, sign the contract, sign the
53:07
contract. And it's, this is not an
53:08
experience that I want anyone to have, much less anyone in my
53:12
business. Like, I don't want you to get
53:14
called a bunch of times by a vendor asking you to sign a
53:17
contract. This is just rude.
53:18
It's annoying, it's not fun, especially my business.
53:21
I don't want this to happen. But just in generally, in
53:24
general, I don't want anyone to have to encounter this, and I
53:27
don't want to be responsible for it.
53:30
So you guys won an award, You were recognized as a top rated
53:34
healthcare staffing firm just this past year in 2025 by great
53:38
recruiters. What did you guys do to earn
53:42
that recognition? Yeah.
53:44
So those were reviews, actually five star reviews on the
53:48
platform, great recruiters. OK.
53:50
And I, I just think we have so many.
53:52
I think one of our one of our recruiters got 40 this year
53:57
which certified her I think 30 or may have certified her as a
54:02
certified great recruiter. But it was just the I think we
54:06
had a couple 100 in total and and that is what certified us as
54:10
a a great company and those. Are reviews that are coming from
54:15
folks that have worked for you the the traveling nurses?
54:19
Sorry, yes, they're specifically from travel nurses.
54:21
Yeah, OK. Great.
54:23
Jordan, how would you characterize your superpower?
54:28
Oh man, that's interesting. I think I have a great way of
54:37
reframing things. This is probably for the the
54:41
newbie people who are looking to maybe start their own business.
54:45
I have a really great way of taking a negative thing that
54:48
occurs and figuring out how I can benefit from it and seeing
54:52
it as a positive. My wife loves it.
54:54
OK. My wife, let me tell you, when
54:56
we have an argument, she is, I'll always be like, man, I'm so
54:59
glad we have this argument. Now we're going to figure we're
55:02
going to do things differently. We solve the problem.
55:04
And she's like still pissed off. And she's like, yeah, OK,
55:06
Jordan, great. Thank you.
55:08
Glad that you're excited about our argument right now.
55:10
So, yeah, I, I, I think doing that is super helpful because it
55:15
keeps you moving forward, right? That's, that's the really
55:18
important part is if you decide to start a business, don't stop,
55:23
keep going and figure out what can help you do it again and
55:28
again and again. And that's one thing that I'm
55:30
struggling with, man, so hard with my YouTube channel is my
55:34
relationship with making content because I don't know lighting, I
55:38
don't know sound. I want to do 17 takes in a row
55:41
and then I hate everything that comes out of my mouth.
55:44
And so I'm just like deleting it, delete, delete.
55:46
And I'm getting no content put out.
55:48
It's a miracle that I have a YouTube channel even at all
55:50
right now. Perfect can be the enemy of
55:53
progress, right? Yeah.
55:54
Yeah, exactly, exactly. So yeah, I'm, I'm working
55:59
through that. I've got a coach that I'm
56:00
working with right now. I'm very excited an expert who
56:03
who knows the industry that is, is going to help out with a lot
56:06
of the just what would I say, just frustration.
56:12
So finding things to relieve the frustration, whether that's a
56:14
coach or probably not Beer, don't do beer, guys, but
56:18
whatever that thing is. Exercise for you.
56:20
That was one thing you transitioned into away from
56:22
beer. Yeah.
56:23
Exactly. Exactly.
56:25
Well, whatever helps ease that pain, man.
56:27
I, I think it's really important because if, if you want to build
56:29
something like there's going to be some pain.
56:31
So get ready for it man. Well, and I like this that
56:34
you're, you know, offering advice for people who maybe
56:38
you're just starting out haven't started a new thing because you
56:41
and I talked before we started recording about your approach to
56:46
starting a business. It was more about go after and
56:49
develop a skill first. Do you want to say more about
56:52
that? Yeah, I mean, that's that's what
56:55
I did personally and I would highly recommend to anybody
56:58
who's looking to start a business is go work somewhere
57:02
and then figure out how they do it and then try it for yourself,
57:05
right. Like if you are super into
57:08
clothes, clothing design and you want to start AT shirt company,
57:12
go work for a guy and fold his T-shirts.
57:14
I don't know the how it works, but like go work in the print
57:17
shop or whatever that is and figure out like, how does he get
57:20
his sales? How much does he charge?
57:22
And, and, and see this baseline things.
57:24
And then don't try for yourself after you, it's like an
57:27
apprenticeship for one or two years, right?
57:29
I don't have that much. I have two years experience in
57:32
recruiting before I started my own company and it's been, it's
57:35
been great, man. We, we did 4 million in revenue
57:37
this year and you can too. I promise you, you can't. 4
57:40
million sounds like a lot if you've never made more than
57:43
100,000 or you know, whatever the number is.
57:45
But I promise you like you could do it.
57:48
What's the best decision you ever made for your business?
57:54
Oh man, it's a good question. To improve myself, to stop
58:04
drinking, to keep going, to grow my commitment to growth.
58:11
What's something about your industry that would surprise a
58:13
lot of outsiders? Oh no, I don't want to say it.
58:22
It's. It doesn't.
58:26
Not not helpful to go there, huh?
58:28
Yeah, I mean all, all. So there's a lot of in the
58:33
recruiting industry, I'm sure a lot of your, you know, your
58:36
audience is in the industry. There's a lot of drama.
58:38
There's a lot you get to. My favorite part about being a
58:40
recruiter is asking people how much money they make.
58:42
Like you don't get to ask people that question ever, anywhere.
58:45
And I was always really interested in like, you know,
58:47
where how do people make money? Who makes money?
58:50
How do I get into what they're doing?
58:52
And so being able to ask people in the IT industry and see like
58:55
some of the crazy numbers that they're making was a lot of fun
58:58
for me. And then I kind of got addicted
59:00
to the tea, the drama, the gossip, that, that type of
59:03
thing. And now that I'm in travel
59:04
nursing, Oh my gosh, there's so much and I love it.
59:07
But I think sometimes people would be surprised at like what
59:10
happens with nurses, like the your healthcare people.
59:13
So I've got this one story, man. It's not my technically I had a
59:18
recruiter. I was involved with the
59:19
recruiter. This is her story.
59:21
She, she had a nurse. We'll just call her Betty,
59:24
right? She went to a new contract, new
59:28
facility across the country and 1st 4 weeks is everything's
59:33
fine. Betty's doing a great job, no
59:35
problem. It's our first time working with
59:36
Betty. So we've kinda, we're just
59:38
building this relationship, getting to know her.
59:41
Betty was really into Bravo television, like drama TV, and
59:45
so she kind of have a penchant for like kind of talking shit a
59:47
little bit and it was fun, whatever.
59:50
But four weeks in, we get a call from the facility and they said
59:53
that Betty is farting into her hand and putting it in people's
59:56
faces. And I was like, Betty is a 30
1:00:00
year old woman. Like, no, she's not right.
1:00:02
Like this is some sort of a like a rumor mill that's going around
1:00:07
that people are after Betty right now 'cause she probably
1:00:09
talk some shit and like that's not good.
1:00:11
So. Her recruiter has to
1:00:13
professionally call her and ask her if she's crop dusting the
1:00:16
hospital. And so the recruiter doesn't
1:00:18
want to do it right. She's like, dude, I don't like
1:00:20
how do I say this? This is a there's no way she's
1:00:22
doing this. And I got to recuse her like
1:00:24
this is bullshit. So we just say pull the Band-Aid
1:00:26
off, man, call her, find out what's going on.
1:00:29
So the recruiter calls her and she says, hey, Betty, I heard
1:00:32
that you're farting into your hand and putting it in people's
1:00:35
faces. And Betty says, I never
1:00:39
buttercuped nobody in my life. And she had a word for it,
1:00:42
buttercup, right? So like, immediately, we know
1:00:45
that she's guilty like this. She's definitely doing this.
1:00:47
So we have to escort her out of the hospital immediately.
1:00:53
And so yeah, that's like one of the most surprising things about
1:00:56
the industry that people don't realize is, like, nurses are
1:00:58
just people, too. And they can be as professional
1:01:01
or unprofessional as all of the friends that you know.
1:01:05
Oh my gosh, that's something my 9 year old not only would do but
1:01:08
has done, I think did last night and now we've got a term for it.
1:01:14
And I don't know if I want to share that with my kids because
1:01:17
then I think they'll want to do it more just so that they can
1:01:19
laugh at the name. That's incredible.
1:01:23
Well, I've just got one more question for you today, Jordan.
1:01:25
But before I ask it, I want to do 3 quick things.
1:01:27
First of all, anybody who wants to get in touch with Jordan,
1:01:31
their website is waywardmedical.com.
1:01:34
waywardmedical.com. And we'll have that link in the
1:01:37
show notes. Also, as a reminder, if you want
1:01:40
to get more staffing employees, access to doctors, therapists,
1:01:43
and prescription meds that, as paradoxical as it seems,
1:01:47
actually increases your company's net profits, reach out
1:01:50
to us at adbackbenefits.com. Finally, if you're enjoying the
1:01:54
show, a quick comment or review on your favorite podcast app
1:01:58
goes a long way towards helping others discover the show.
1:02:02
So thank you for taking a quick moment to do that right now.
1:02:06
Last question for you, Jordan. A year from now, you and I
1:02:09
reconnect and you are celebrating something big.
1:02:11
What's that big specific thing that you're celebrating a year
1:02:16
from today? 10 million revenue.
1:02:18
I love it. Easy answer.
1:02:20
Oh yeah. Jordan Tallman from Wayward
1:02:23
Medical Staffing, I would be the first to thank you for sharing
1:02:26
both your time and your story with us today.
1:02:28
I really appreciate you. Always, Anthony, you're the man.
1:02:32
It's been great. Folks, that's a wrap on another
1:02:34
episode of the Inspired Stories podcast.
1:02:36
Thanks for learning with us today.