Latest / BREAK/FIX the Motorsports & Vehicle Enthusiast Variety Show / From Poster to Performance: How One Teen’s Dream Became Havik Performance

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From Poster to Performance: How One Teen’s Dream Became Havik Performance · BREAK/FIX the Motorsports & Vehicle Enthusiast Variety Show

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  Break Fix podcast is all about capturing the living history of people from all
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  over the autos sphere, from wrench, turners, and racers to artists, authors,
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  designers, and everything in between.
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  Our goal is to inspire a new generation of Petrolhead that wonder.
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  How did they get that job or become that person?
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  The road to success is paved by all of us because everyone has a story.
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  For many of us, it all begins with a dream, inspired by a poster on
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  the wall, a small collection of Hot Wheels, a race you saw on tv.
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  But for our guest, his dream began when he was 14 years old.
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  His father purchased his dream car, a Dodge Viper.
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  They started attending events together, learning more about the car, and
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  meeting like-minded car enthusiasts.
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  Joining the Viper Club of America opened him up to understand what Viper
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  owners expected from mechanics, how they wanted to modify their cars,
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  and what they wanted to be restored.
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  And with that.
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  A single dream realized havoc performance was founded to offer
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  a premier automotive business that would provide white glove treatment
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  paired with constant communication and above standard industry expectations.
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  And to talk to us about all things.
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  Vipers is Mike Vic, founder of Havoc Performance.
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  Joining me and filling in for Brad is my guest host and newly minted Viper
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  owner, the one, the only Mr. Andrew Bank.
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  So welcome both of you, Mike, and Andrew to break fix.
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  Thanks for having me.
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  Really appreciate it.
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  Yeah, thanks, Eric.
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  Unfortunately, finally caved all on my first podcast ever.
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  Uh, I don't know how I feel about this drag kicking and screaming.
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  We're doing it together.
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  At least there's a viper in the background.
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  A hundred percent.
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  And we will get into that in a little bit.
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  So, Mike, we met recently at Watkins Glen.
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  You were working on all things a Jaguar, and we got to talking
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  about a bunch of different stuff.
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  And then you mentioned something that really got my attention,
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  which was the word viper.
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  And like you, I've been in love with the Viper since the very first one came out.
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  And let's face it, it's the hottest car from the nineties
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  that was designed in the eighties.
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  Right.
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  Let's talk about all things Viper, but first let's kick off with the origin
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  of havoc performance, what you provide and where this evolution is gone
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  from you having this poster on your wall to now being a Viper aficionado.
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  It really started, like we said, kind of in that intro about.
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  I was probably about 14 years old.
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  My dad bought that Viper, and it was just so much fun going out to the
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  events and meeting all the people.
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  They always joke around that like, you buy the car because it's gorgeous, right?
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  We love Vipers for what they are.
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  They're beautiful cars, but you keep the car because of the people you
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  meet through the clubs and the people are second to none on top of it.
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  Growing up and getting to watch all that and meet all these great people and
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  just watching some people's experiences when you go to shops and stuff and
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  their cars sit outside in the rain, like when they're not getting worked
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  on and all that jazz, it's like I found that unacceptable even when I was 18.
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  If you're gonna have a car like that, you expect it to be treated like your baby.
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  When I started to go, okay, well, like maybe I could start a business working
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  on cars, doing that sort of thing, it was one of those where I wanted to
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  make sure that I built a business that not only communicated, because that's
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  the biggest issue with most shops, is they don't tell them or give them
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  realistic deadlines, or even if the deadline is pushed, they're not updated.
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  So.
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  Communication was the biggest part of it.
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  And the other thing was taking care of their cars like, like a baby of mine.
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  'cause at the end of the day, our cars are like our children
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  in a sense, always wanted to make sure that they were clean battery
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  tenders while I had them in my shop.
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  And they would never sit outside in the weather.
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  They had to go outside in the sun.
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  They'd sit out in the sun for a little bit, but they'd never be out
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  in the rain or anything like that.
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  As years went on, we were watching all this stuff happen and people
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  would take 'em to shops and some shops would end up wrecking vipers
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  because nobody really knew what to do.
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  And some young guy would take it out.
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  And if you floor these things in third gear, if you're at a high enough RPM,
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  you could spin the tires if it's.
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  Not the right condition.
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  So it can get dangerous pretty quick.
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  It's, it's 'cause it's got all the torques, right?
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  Yes.
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  Peak torque is like 3000 RPMs for the record.
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  Like that's awesome.
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  You hit 3000 and you're just about around peak torque.
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  That's like a truck.
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  Yeah, we we'll into that too.
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  It's, it also sounds like one that's, it sounds like two five
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  cylinder Audis running together.
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  That's all I know.
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  That's for damn sure.
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  Just stand on each side of the car and you'll figure that out.
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  So it all started off with like, I saw a need.
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  As I started to do like car collection management, even when I
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  was younger, like a friend of ours had a car collection of like 50 cars.
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  He's got a little bit of everything and he watched me grow working
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  outta my parents' garage.
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  I was doing oil changes for him when I was like 16, 17.
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  All my friends knew and most of my high school knew that I had like a
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  two car garage, my parents' place.
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  So they'd all shipped their stuff up to me and we'd work on it and figure
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  it out and brake slowly turned into, oh, well let's rebuild a motor.
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  Let's put transmissions in, let's do performance shocks, and all that other
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  fun stuff That continued to grow.
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  And while the first guy that I was working with, he watched me
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  grow and do all those things, gave me more and more responsibility.
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  When I was a junior in college, I was actually going to Penn State at the
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  time, studying business and marketing.
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  He met with the one Viper guy we met through the Viper Club and he
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  said, who works in all your cars?
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  Well, Mike Junior did.
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  So I started working for the Viper guy.
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  And 2015 he had six cars.
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  As of today, we're up to 52 in his collection.
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  Holy cow.
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  That's something you mentioned to me at the track.
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  You actually manage the second largest Viper collection in the us correct?
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  The second largest, the first largest is down in Texas.
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  And last I heard they were at 94 Vipers, but they have like two.
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  Is this one person owner, is this like a company that owns them all?
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  That's one person for both collections.
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  Wow.
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  Well, husband and wife for one month.
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  I had two Vipers in the scratch.
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  One didn't run and the cooling tank didn't, uh, didn't fill up, but you know
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  that's okay for a brief and one month minor problems, somewhere on that list.
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  They're highly desirable, very bottom, and honestly meeting those guys that have all
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  those vipers, you would never guess that they'd have more than one talking to 'em.
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  And that's the one of the best parts about the Viper Club.
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  I don't think we delved into what you offer at havoc as service products,
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  et cetera, as part of your business.
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  So do you wanna expand upon that for our listeners?
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  Just so like people know in general here, I handle anything and everything, right?
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  So I've got a guy's car who basically wants it essentially fully restored.
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  I've got body shops I work with.
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  I've got guys who come in and do paint correction for us.
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  We handle suspension components, motor builds, all that stuff.
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  And we do some of the things in-house.
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  But basically I wanted to design my business where you could drop
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  your car off and when you picked it up, everything would be done.
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  If you wanted clear blood done, we would have it done for you and
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  someone would come in and do it.
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  If you wanted any of those services done, we could handle it.
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  And it's expanded into doing.
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  Pre track inspection forms and going to track days with customers and making
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  sure their cars are on tiptop shape.
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  So it's really expanded into a bunch of different things.
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  So it's not like, oh yeah, I'm just gonna go get this engine
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  work done and that's that.
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  It's okay, I can go see him.
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  We can set events up, we can get the whole car detailed and you know,
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  so a bunch of different things.
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  But I have all my services too on the website if anyone wants to dive
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  deeper into some of those things.
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  But if you need something done nine times outta 10, we can handle it and you
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  won't have to worry about the process and you work on more than just Viper.
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  So that's always also good.
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  So, uh, yeah, we've done, we've done a little bit of everything.
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  Let's step back, let's step back to 13-year-old Mike Vic and talk about
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  the car that was hot on his list before the Viper came on the scene.
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  What was the poster on your wall when you were 13 years old?
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  I had.
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  I had two posters.
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  It was Mustangs and Vipers.
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  And at the time, all in my mind that I would be able to afford
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  was going to be a Mustang.
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  So I loved Mustangs.
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  And then Vipers started to kind of creep up as more and more.
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  And like one day my dad just walks out and we're sitting in the garage
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  and he goes, well, Mike, I did it.
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  There's a Viper coming.
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  And I was like, you're shitting me.
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  There's no way in hell a viper's coming.
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  You're pulling my leg.
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  And sure as hell, a trailer pulled up and dropped a viper off in our driveway.
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  And that was when the really, the, the real big dream of it was really happening.
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  Gen color and year are the first one.
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  Should I make you guess?
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  It's iconic Gen two blue, white stripe.
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  Ah, man.
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  You weren't kidding.
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  You have two vipers.
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  Yeah, it was, it's the, uh, the gen two iconic blue and white.
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  Because it copied after the Shelby Daytona.
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  That's right.
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  And we'll, we'll expand upon that in a little bit.
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  Those are crazy valuable right now.
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  I just saw an alert on that.
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  I get alerts every time that Vipers listed, because I've been
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  looking for one my whole life.
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  Yeah.
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  Even though I just got one for the first time, I didn't
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  unsubscribe from all these alerts.
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  I got an email five minutes ago, hundred $19,000 for Blue White Gen two.
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  I can tell you right now, I see cars.com and I, of course, I deleted
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  it because I was like, that's a little outta my price range.
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  Just, just a little bit.
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  I think it was in the thirties or less.
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  It's wild how much these things are going for now.
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  And it's, it's specifically the blue and white.
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  Yeah.
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  The reds, the yellows.
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  They're getting, they're going from 50, 60, sometimes 70.
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  And that's the gen twos.
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  I paid less for the gen threes.
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  Everyone fucking hates them for some reason.
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  Well, you have the coup.
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  I know why.
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  I know why.
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  But yes, that's one thing for
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  here you go.
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  28,470 miles.
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  He's out of his mind.
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  I just coordinated a deal a couple months ago for a all original blue and white 96
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  with like 5,000 miles and it was under 80.
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  Wow.
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  I just meant so horsepower.
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  Look.
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  Got it There you twin thousand horsepower twin Turbo makes a big difference.
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  Yeah.
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  Twin turbo.
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  2000 horsepower.
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  Woo.
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  Okay.
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  That car will kill you.
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  So let's get back to some more Viper origin stories.
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  Right?
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  As I was joking, the best car from the nineties that was designed in the
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  eighties, and a lot of people don't realize that much like Lee Iacocca
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  is credited for being, you know, the godfather of the Mustang, even
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  though he didn't pen a single line on that car, he was the guy that pushed
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  the Muang program forward, and it's been an iconic vehicle ever since.
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  When he went to bat for Chrysler the second time, not the first time, the
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  second time, to bring them back from the brink of complete destruction.
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  There's a little bit of mystique and mystery behind the story of why Lee
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  pushed for this skunkworks project.
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  Known as the Viper Project.
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  Got them a separate building, got car, his buddy Carol Shelby
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  involved, things like that.
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  So the plans for the Viper were already started in the eighties, and then
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  when I saw a debut in 89 and it rolled out on the stage, it was one of those
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  moments where it was like, this is the next best thing since sliced bread.
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  Let's talk about those early vipers, what they really were,
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  where the idea came from.
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  I mean, you're an expert in these cars.
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  Let's kind of nerd out on the original 92, 93, 94 Gen one vipers.
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  So one of the big pushers for the Viper was Bob Lutz.
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  There's a backstory to that that's not really ever talked about.
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  Talk like I'll hear it at some of these like Viper team guys
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  will hear, tell us some stories.
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  Every so often you hear it pop up.
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  But one of the reasons that they built the Viper was Bob Lutz was,
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  would drive his Shelby Cobra to work and they would all razz him.
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  He'd be like, all right, well like build me a car then that's Dodge that
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  can compete with my co. Because right now, well, I'm gonna drive a minivan.
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  Dodge wasn't doing too much in the performance world at the time.
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  When it came to the original stuff, the main guys that were really pushing
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  for it, they didn't have a budget.
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  They didn't have any of that stuff.
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  They had very little money to make these things happen.
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  And let me tell you, they put a hell of a car together that can do many
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  things that people don't realize.
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  It's just crazy to see what they made back in 89 compared to even what they have now.
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  It's one of those nice body styles that's almost timeless.
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  'cause if you take the wheels off of an RT 10 target top the originals, and you
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  put a set of gen five wheels on 'em.
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  Yeah.
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  If you get rid of those three spokes, you throw a new set of wheels on 'em.
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  I've had people come up to me and say, is this car from like the two thousands?
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  It's just crazy to see how these cars have been so timeless over the years.
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  And there's a few other cars that are just like that.
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  And I'll name drop them.
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  The Gen three RX seven, the fourth gen Supra, the Audi R eight.
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  Yeah.
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  It doesn't matter what year it is.
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  And you look at it today, you're like, it still looks new.
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  It still looks modern.
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  And I think the Viper is, is one of those designs.
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  Granted we, we gotta discount the blocky Mercedes period there for a moment.
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  But those early vipers, I mean they are, to your point, very
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  reminiscent of the Shelby Cobra.
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  And obviously having Carol Shelby involved in helping to design
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  the original Viper is really important to that part of the story.
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  It comes at a terrible time for Chrysler though.
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  I mean, there's in dire straits, you know, on the brink of
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  financial ruin and here they are building, quote unquote a supercar.
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  How does that all work?
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  Honestly, that's probably why the budgets were so tough and all the like
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  crazy things that I know we'll get into later about some of these other stories.
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  I get to tell you that they made happen and did the things that they
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  did because the money wasn't there.
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  But somehow they got through this process of things to make these cars and give
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  them all this publicity, which I really think helped them in the long run.
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  They didn't, I don't think they made a ton of money on the cars.
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  One of the reasons why they probably stopped, but in the beginning.
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  As far as the performance world, this stuff goes you, like you said,
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  they were designed in the eighties and they lasted through the nineties
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  and did a hell of a job doing it.
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  And there was a gap there too between the initial prototype rollout in 89.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  To when the first one went on sale.
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  The very first vipers in 92, that's a three year gap, so they
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  spent that time refining it.
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  The first vipers that launched don't exactly look like the prototype either.
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  You know, they've been modified, they were slightly bigger,
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  you know, things like that.
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  They had to add some creature comforts, although there were very few.
• 13:54
  Yeah, yeah.
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  Which we'll talk about.
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  In those early cars, they had windows and.
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  A roof and a doorknob.
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  That stuff is all useless.
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  You didn't need for that first one.
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  Did the COBRA have any of that stuff?
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  No.
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  So the Viper didn't have it either, right?
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  They didn't need it.
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  No ac, none of that.
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  Coming from the Cobra, we go to the Viper to continue with that lineage.
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  It all, it all kind of gels together.
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  It's obvious to us as Petrolhead, but it might not be obvious to somebody else.
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  Like I don't, I don't get the history.
• 14:22
  So we're gonna fill in those gaps.
• 14:24
  And I remember one story that was kind of fun about the Skunk Works project.
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  As they were putting it together, Lee Koco said, Hey, go take
• 14:31
  this building over there.
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  Go work on it on your own.
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  And I read this in his memoirs and he was saying about how guys were like
• 14:38
  basically taking the, the corporate minivans and running over to other
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  parts of the campus and basically quote unquote, borrowing, we'll call it
• 14:45
  equipment, computers, whatever they could.
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  Get in the back of a minivan and bringing it over to the skunkworks building.
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  Roy Shoberg, he was the one overseeing the project at the time, right?
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  He was the one that was building a team.
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  So he was the one who put like Dick Winkles together, Tom Gale together.
• 14:59
  All those guys that made this viper happen.
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  In the beginning, the team of guys were like, Roy, you need to get
• 15:04
  a minivan as your company car.
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  And he goes, why the hell would I want a minivan as my company car?
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  And he goes, we're gonna take the seats out of it.
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  And because you're corporate, your car isn't inspected when it leaves the plants.
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  So we're gonna drive to the other plants that we know aren't using computers
• 15:19
  and aren't using all the drafting stuff, and we're just gonna take it.
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  We're gonna put in the van and we're gonna move it to where we need it to so
• 15:26
  we can use that stuff to develop this car because we don't have any money to do so.
• 15:30
  So that story is actually true, and it's rather hilarious that
• 15:33
  that actually happened because I mean, it nowadays, there's so much
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  paperwork involved to do anything.
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  Back then they were like, ah, fuck it.
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  Like let's just do this.
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  It's ingenious.
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  And you know, it speaks to something that Lee talked about in his first
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  autobiography when he went to Chrysler the first time, is that even though he was a
• 15:49
  Ford man and he had been at Ford forever, he said that there was always something
• 15:54
  about the Chrysler engineers that they were always thinking outside of the box.
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  They were really a cut above.
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  They just were performing surgery, as I like to call it, with a
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  spoon and a screwdriver, right?
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  They just never had the tools to bring these dreams to reality.
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  And so they made a lot of, let's face it, a bunch of turds, right?
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  Yep.
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  But, and there was some cool stuff in the seventies and the muscle car era,
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  but there was a this, this middle aged period of Chrysler, you're like, I don't
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  want to talk about any of this stuff.
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  And then along comes the Viper and you're like, whoa.
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  And we can nerd out upon that.
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  But there's some other, I think, myth busting we need to do along the way.
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  And that's.
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  The one you hear all the time.
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  Well that's just a Lamborghini V 10.
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  They didn't even develop that engine themselves or the other
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  side, it's just a truck motor and it came out of an agricultural
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  piece of equipment, blah, blah blah.
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  So what's the truth?
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  The truth is, at the time they did not have the molds or the technology
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  to really make an all aluminum V 10.
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  Dick Winkles at the time did go over to Lamborghini 'cause he was one of
• 16:51
  the head designers of the Viper motor.
• 16:53
  And they worked with Lamborghini to figure out how to make the motor run
• 16:58
  cool enough, work well enough being all aluminum, because Lamborghinis was
• 17:02
  making aluminum blocks at the time.
• 17:04
  So it's not truly a Lamborghini motor because they took the basic design, kind
• 17:08
  of like from the trucks or even from the V eights, just added two cylinders.
• 17:11
  'cause that's all, it's really two inline fives essentially.
• 17:14
  So they used that platform, took some information from Lamborghini and
• 17:18
  then made it happen in the process.
• 17:19
  So.
• 17:20
  On one end, it's not on the other.
• 17:22
  It's kind of dead center as far as how that goes.
• 17:24
  Interesting.
• 17:25
  So it's a little bit of both, so everybody's sort.
• 17:27
  A little bit of both.
• 17:27
  So everybody's kind of right that applying to both the first
• 17:30
  gen and the third gen ones.
• 17:32
  I know they changed a lot about the engine between the, uh, what was it, 2003 remake
• 17:36
  when they went from gen two to gen three.
• 17:38
  Gen two and Gen three motors are different.
• 17:41
  Ironically enough, you can put gen three heads on top of a Gen two motor.
• 17:45
  The head gasket are.
• 17:46
  And so there are a lot of similarities.
• 17:49
  The design is kind of the same at the end of the day.
• 17:51
  They're all kind of the same motor.
• 17:54
  They just made improvements through the year, so there's
• 17:56
  definitely like a redesign.
• 17:57
  'cause they went up to the eight three and the gen threes
• 18:00
  versus uh, like the eight liter.
• 18:01
  So they 8, 8 4.
• 18:03
  Yeah.
• 18:03
  The eight three is the gen three.
• 18:04
  The eight four is the gen four.
• 18:06
  So oh, eight to 10 is gen, is the eight four.
• 18:09
  That's just, I know it's written on my little intake thing says 5 0 5 8 0.4.
• 18:13
  He's uh, he's fact checking.
• 18:14
  Oh yeah, I'm fact checking myself.
• 18:17
  How much did they change it to in 2008 when they made the gen four and they
• 18:21
  bumped it up a hundred horsepower.
• 18:23
  They went from five 10 to 6 0 5, 600 flat.
• 18:26
  And they literally, you know, they didn't change anything
• 18:28
  about the frame of the car.
• 18:29
  They just changed the intake and the manifold from my understanding.
• 18:32
  They went, well these aren't selling.
• 18:33
  We gotta do something and bump it up a hundred horsepower and make a
• 18:37
  cooler, you know, cooler hood with the three open vents instead of like the
• 18:41
  flatted, the displacement only went from an 8.3 to an 8.4 from the gen
• 18:45
  threes, which was oh three to 2006.
• 18:47
  And then the gen fours came out in oh eight and they, oh, eight
• 18:50
  to 10 was an 8.4 liter size block.
• 18:52
  But what they changed was they added like a variable timing
• 18:55
  essentially with the cam.
• 18:57
  By doing that, it was creating more power.
• 18:59
  B Tech, yo, you got BT Tech.
• 19:01
  Yeah, it's, I mean, kind of vanos, maybe it's more like vanos.
• 19:05
  Basically it's like a variable intake sort of situation where
• 19:08
  you were able, they were able to get some more power out of it.
• 19:10
  Yeah.
• 19:11
  Volkswagen introduced something like that in 2003 on the R 30 twos as well
• 19:15
  where they can change the length of the runners and all this kind of crazy
• 19:18
  stuff using vacuum and, and solenoids and all sorts of stuff that was prone
• 19:22
  to break, you know, so it was awesome.
• 19:23
  Yeah.
• 19:23
  So speaking of prone to break, let's talk a little bit about the early cars.
• 19:28
  'cause it's kinda still staggering.
• 19:29
  To put it in perspective, you're talking a quasi 500 horsepower
• 19:33
  car in the early nineties.
• 19:34
  I mean, even the F forties and other iconic super cars of that time
• 19:39
  weren't making that kind of power.
• 19:41
  Like this was the muscle car of the modern times.
• 19:44
  Right?
• 19:45
  And if you think about it, what things did the Vipers not come with?
• 19:49
  Let's start with that and then how have they evolved and what is still on?
• 19:53
  Let's say, let's, let's say what's.
• 19:56
  Still on a current viper, last Gen Viper.
• 19:58
  That's a carryover from the originals.
• 20:00
  Did anything make it all the way through?
• 20:02
  Every generation.
• 20:03
  They all stayed manual.
• 20:04
  You could never get 'em in an automatic.
• 20:06
  That's hugely awesome.
• 20:08
  Yeah.
• 20:08
  So that was one of the big things that, uh, they wanted
• 20:12
  was it had to stay raw, right?
• 20:14
  So they always kept them v tens and they always kept them manual transmissions.
• 20:18
  From 92 to 2010, there was no traction control, no stability control.
• 20:22
  It was only until the government mandated traction control, stability,
• 20:25
  control in the cars, which was what happened with the Gen five.
• 20:28
  So like the government stepped in and made that have to happen.
• 20:32
  Or like in 2001.
• 20:35
  They brought in a BS, so like in 2001 and newer Vipers will have,
• 20:39
  and we'll have a BS modules in 'em.
• 20:41
  Besides that, everything from 92 up to 2000, we'll have, uh, sorry, 2000.
• 20:46
  They brought the A BS in 92 to 99.
• 20:48
  There's no a, b, s. And which years did they actually have door handles and door
• 20:51
  locks and windows as Andrew alluded to?
• 20:55
  Um, so I mean, once they brought out the GTS model, so the coop,
• 20:59
  they had door handles on the coops.
• 21:01
  So in 96 they started to add door handles to the coop, well to the RT 10.
• 21:06
  So like they have this weird 96 and a half RT 10 that, like some of them didn't
• 21:11
  necessarily have exterior door handles.
• 21:13
  They were just still, you reached inside and grabbed the interior handle.
• 21:16
  So it's like the half year RT 10 stuff.
• 21:19
  That didn't have roll up windows.
• 21:21
  It didn't have necessarily have handles yet.
• 21:23
  So it's like that 97 era that they started to incorporate windows into
• 21:28
  the RT tens that weren't like in the trunk that you had to put in.
• 21:31
  You still the tops in the trunk that would go on.
• 21:33
  But, and that was another crazy story, right?
• 21:35
  Like, like a hideous little top hat.
• 21:38
  I hate the look.
• 21:39
  It just looked like a, like an old man with like a fake hair
• 21:42
  piece on and you could see it.
• 21:44
  It doesn't belong.
• 21:45
  Like he didn't glue it on all the way.
• 21:47
  It's as seams.
• 21:48
  Well, so that's the one thing that always bugged me about the RC 10.
• 21:52
  If you do, if you do 55 miles an hour, you won't get wet, just so you know.
• 21:55
  Um, but that arrow dynamic about that science, but it was another one
• 22:02
  of those situations where somebody in corporate was driving an RT 10
• 22:05
  and it started to rain in Detroit.
• 22:06
  So they were like, these things need roofs.
• 22:08
  We need to make sure that these have roofs because I don't wanna
• 22:11
  get stuck in the rain if I'm out.
• 22:12
  So that's why they ended up adding them into the fold up into the trunk, whereas.
• 22:15
  To my knowledge, cobras didn't have any roof system.
• 22:19
  It was, you better drive it while it's sunny or you're getting wet.
• 22:21
  Or they had those sort of tunnel covers.
• 22:24
  Like the old lotus's would have that, you know, they would
• 22:26
  use those button rivets Yeah.
• 22:28
  To like, you know, clip it on.
• 22:29
  It's like a leather cover.
• 22:30
  That was typical of British cars.
• 22:32
  'cause you gotta remember the Cobra itself started out as an AC going way
• 22:36
  back before Shelby got his hands on it.
• 22:38
  So there was a British roadster before you.
• 22:40
  They, they put the Ford heart in it and the Ford Drive train
• 22:44
  and all that kind of stuff.
• 22:45
  The Cobra kept that.
• 22:46
  And there's actually a really great video, which we'll post in the
• 22:48
  show notes that Jay Leno did during COVID of his 93, I believe it is.
• 22:55
  T 10, which he, he gets into this whole debate about whether he's the
• 22:58
  first one to own a black viper because they came red up until that point.
• 23:04
  And there's another gentleman that contests that he got his first and
• 23:07
  all this back and forth, but what he ends up doing on the episode is going
• 23:09
  through all the amenities, or I guess lack thereof on those early vipers.
• 23:15
  And he lays out in the gr his garage floor at one point.
• 23:18
  He's like, this is all the stuff I gotta do to make sure I don't get wet.
• 23:21
  Right.
• 23:21
  And, and he lays it all.
• 23:22
  It's really cool.
• 23:23
  And you're, and I'm looking at it going, this is like all
• 23:25
  old British Roadster stuff.
• 23:27
  So it's kind of neat that they kept that.
• 23:29
  And eventually, obviously that went away.
• 23:31
  But you said the manual transmissions.
• 23:33
  And the question I got from somebody recently was what manual is in the
• 23:37
  Viper, in the Gen Ones and twos?
• 23:39
  It's a T 56.
• 23:40
  Sorry.
• 23:41
  In the Gen threes it's also a T 56 and then the gen fours and
• 23:44
  Gen fives use the T 60 sixties.
• 23:46
  Okay.
• 23:46
  So no ZF transmissions, not the Mercedes based or anything like that.
• 23:50
  Mm-hmm.
• 23:50
  They're all tremi.
• 23:51
  All tremi.
• 23:52
  Nice.
• 23:53
  A lot of guys will find Viper Transit and use 'em for like V eight Chevys
• 23:58
  and other types of conversions or converting the, the truck, which
• 24:00
  we'll talk about in a little bit.
• 24:02
  In terms of chassis, obviously that evolved, especially
• 24:04
  during the Mercedes period.
• 24:05
  They got really kind of big, you know, things like that.
• 24:08
  But is there anything that is a, a heritage piece that has made it
• 24:12
  from the first Gen Viper all the way through the last ACRs in 20 16, 20 17?
• 24:17
  So, like I said, like the big thing about all of that was they wanted
• 24:21
  to keep the car as raw as possible.
• 24:23
  Yeah.
• 24:23
  Some people wanted to put automatics in 'em from corporate and all that other
• 24:26
  fun jazz, and they basically said, no, they have to stay manual, they have
• 24:30
  to stay the V 10, they have to stay rear wheel drive, we, and we want to
• 24:33
  keep it as race car esque as possible.
• 24:35
  Right.
• 24:36
  So they wanted to keep the nannies off the cars and make these things be able to
• 24:40
  be track monsters at the end of the day.
• 24:41
  And then if you broke down, you'd be easy enough to fix
• 24:44
  at the track if you needed to.
• 24:45
  The thing that really held true, the car the whole time was.
• 24:48
  The fact that they only came in manual transmissions
• 24:51
  through the entire generations.
• 24:53
  When they switched from the Gen four to gen five, they went, well,
• 24:57
  basically a three year gap in 2010 to 2013 where SRT took over and
• 25:01
  they were no longer dodge fiber.
• 25:02
  They were SRT Viper.
• 25:04
  At that point, they scrapped.
• 25:05
  I mean that, it didn't look anything like the resume.
• 25:07
  They modeled the body off of the original gen two GTS coup.
• 25:12
  They did the swooping, you know, hood again, that was the exotic,
• 25:15
  sideways opening one rather than this garbage one that opens up, you
• 25:18
  know, four the boring regular hood.
• 25:21
  I don't know.
• 25:21
  I love those ones.
• 25:22
  I got to do a ride along with Eugene at one of our events at
• 25:25
  New Jersey Motor Sports Park.
• 25:26
  Unfortunately, we had a little incident where the, uh, oil cap was not screwed on
• 25:30
  all the way after he filled it back up and it blew smoke and oil all over the engine.
• 25:35
  I, uh, legitimately thought I was dying because NACR and he was going
• 25:38
  faster than I'd ever been on the track.
• 25:41
  All of a sudden we're seeing black smoke everywhere and I'm just in
• 25:44
  the passenger seat, like, cool, this guy's about to kill me.
• 25:46
  That's cool.
• 25:47
  And I, I played a little bit too much GTA five gta, and I, I, I was like, I know
• 25:51
  what black smoke coming outta the engine.
• 25:53
  Me.
• 25:53
  That means the car's about to explode in about, you know,
• 25:55
  five seconds we pull over.
• 25:57
  It's just oil and everything, but.
• 25:58
  I was incredibly memorable.
• 26:00
  Ride along and I'm holding a spot.
• 26:02
  The, the poster you have right behind you, that one with white
• 26:05
  stripes, that'll be the next one.
• 26:06
  Might take me a little longer, but I'll be happy with this one.
• 26:09
  But they're gorgeous.
• 26:11
  But like you were saying too, they wanted to try to keep the clamshell hoods,
• 26:14
  especially as the design changed through the years and that was again, something
• 26:18
  else that they kind of tried to keep.
• 26:19
  But at the end of the day, even if you look at all vipers, the
• 26:22
  front ends, in my opinion, all have that kind of same mean design.
• 26:27
  The headlights are a little bit different.
• 26:28
  I mean, they didn't, the gen fives and the gen twos are like, to me, the Gen
• 26:32
  five is the new version of the gen two and which is one of the things that
• 26:35
  I really like about those designs.
• 26:37
  So as far as things that made it through all the years, I think
• 26:40
  it's really just like trans motor.
• 26:43
  And they kept, they tried their hardest to keep the rawness of those cars.
• 26:47
  If the Gen five is the new gen two, does that mean that the
• 26:50
  gen three is the new copperhead?
• 26:53
  So let's talk about the copperhead for a second, shall we?
• 26:56
  That was a slight jab that like the Mamba edition.
• 26:59
  So there's a million additions.
• 27:01
  You mean I had all these special ones that I'm like, what's
• 27:03
  special about the copperhead?
• 27:04
  That's what I wanted to ask.
• 27:05
  Let's let Mike fill us in on what the copperhead is.
• 27:08
  The copperhead was either a Cooper or convertible, and depending on the year,
• 27:14
  it would have a dash plaque, it would have orange stitching, it would have that
• 27:18
  copper color, and it would have those five spoke polished chrome looking wheels.
• 27:24
  Outside of that, it was like a badge that they put on it, just like a
• 27:28
  lot of the other cars they did.
• 27:30
  That's true of the Viper.
• 27:32
  I'm gonna stretch.
• 27:33
  Oh, okay.
• 27:33
  Your imagination, right.
• 27:35
  Where are we at?
• 27:35
  We are at the concept.
• 27:38
  Dodge Copperhead, if you recall, which was developed in 1997 as a one-off
• 27:44
  prototype, as a variant of the Viper.
• 27:47
  It has a very squareish front end.
• 27:49
  Looks like something out of Batman.
• 27:50
  The animated series, if you search, I've actually seen it.
• 27:53
  There is apparently like one, and that's why I joke that the gen three is the
• 27:59
  new version of the Copperhead because it has kind of similar body lines, right?
• 28:03
  If you think about it.
• 28:04
  Yeah.
• 28:04
  I mean the tail lights look exactly same, hideous.
• 28:07
  There's also this front end looks like a, uh, not PC
• 28:11
  cruiser, a uh, Plymouth Crowler.
• 28:13
  Only it has.
• 28:14
  It's not open wheel.
• 28:15
  It's got fenders.
• 28:16
  Exactly.
• 28:17
  And there's a third little car, and I mean little that you add to this
• 28:21
  equation known as the demon, which we talked about in an earlier episode,
• 28:26
  which was designed as a Miata killer and also had related articles.
• 28:31
  And also has very viper like lines to it as well.
• 28:35
  So that's kind of another kind of sub variant of the Viper family there.
• 28:38
  If we're playing a little bit of Viper Family Tree Viper trivia.
• 28:42
  Speaking of that, Mike, what are some other great little interesting
• 28:46
  tidbits of information or stories or anecdotes about the Viper and its
• 28:49
  lineage that you'd like to share?
• 28:51
  So one of my favorites.
• 28:53
  It has to be the turn signals on the gen ones and twos because we've always talked
• 28:58
  about how they didn't have enough money to be really building these cars, right?
• 29:02
  They had to cut corners as best they could to make things cheap and make this
• 29:05
  car happen because they all wanted it to.
• 29:07
  They all had the passion to, but how are they gonna do it?
• 29:10
  And they were originally needing to make the tooling for turn
• 29:12
  signals for these bumpers.
• 29:14
  Basically, Chrysler came back and said, well, it's gonna be 250,000
• 29:17
  aside to make the tooling, and then you can make all the lights you need.
• 29:20
  Well, Roy said, that's not happening.
• 29:23
  Go down to the trailer store and find a good set of lights that will
• 29:26
  fit and look good in this bumper.
• 29:28
  So they went down, they found a set of trailer lights and the turn signal
• 29:32
  lights in the front bumpers of the gen one and twos are actually trailer lights.
• 29:37
  So they took the trailer lights, used the tooling from them.
• 29:40
  Saved a crap ton of money so they could put it elsewhere.
• 29:42
  Plastic parts bin.
• 29:44
  Oh yes.
• 29:44
  Very much parts.
• 29:45
  PIN card to excess.
• 29:46
  I mean, even my key and the key fob are the exact same ones out
• 29:50
  of a Dodge Caravan from that year.
• 29:52
  The vent identical, I mean I looked it up, I, I'm sure you have seen how
• 29:56
  much these things are cheap plastic.
• 29:58
  So that first viper I got, everything was broken.
• 30:01
  Like every interior piece of cracked was so brittle.
• 30:03
  Yep.
• 30:03
  And trucks did not hold up to 15 years of even gr.
• 30:08
  I don't know if it was garage kept or not, but the interior is
• 30:10
  not what you buy this far for.
• 30:12
  It's definitely minimalist.
• 30:13
  That correct at that.
• 30:15
  But it sounds fantastic, even if it does sound a little bit like
• 30:19
  the old Cub cadet tractor I used to mow my parents lawn with.
• 30:23
  It still sounds pretty good.
• 30:25
  I, like, I I, the first time driving, I'm in six gear and I, I rev it.
• 30:29
  I just hear and I'm just like, okay, that's not what I was
• 30:33
  expecting this to sound like.
• 30:34
  I'm not, I can't say I'm disappointed or anything, but Well, hey, six gear.
• 30:37
  You're probably at like a thousand RPMs, so 90 miles an hour, 1,750 RPMs.
• 30:44
  It's wild.
• 30:45
  I'm like, this thing, it's got so much to give, I mean a ton of displacement.
• 30:49
  And, uh, you know, first order of business, I gotta look for an exhaust.
• 30:52
  Actually, Mike, you gotta gimme suggestions even if it's later on.
• 30:55
  I gotta know Corsa Barilla, like, well, what do I get for this?
• 30:58
  Because Barilla whatcha talking about
• 31:02
  That's a brand I, I, I swear I saw it on a form that's available on the bi version.
• 31:09
  I was surprised.
• 31:10
  Pipe, no, I was surprised when we had it up on the lift that
• 31:14
  the pipes, they went down.
• 31:16
  Crossed around the back and came out.
• 31:18
  So the, the left exit pipe coming outta the side here is actually coming from
• 31:21
  the right side of the engine, and it crosses behind the passenger foot,
• 31:24
  like behind your seats, which to me seems like a ton of excess weight.
• 31:28
  A ton of excess.
• 31:29
  You know, it, it just seems like they could have straight piped,
• 31:31
  like coming right outta the side.
• 31:33
  I'm sure there's EPA regulations and stuff, but yeah, I don't
• 31:36
  know if you have any insight on that that came down to sound.
• 31:40
  I'm sure if you've ever driven that thing in the summer, it gets very
• 31:43
  hot in that cabin because you're completely surrounded by exhaust.
• 31:46
  I definitely have a burn on my leg to prove that.
• 31:49
  Oh, you've got the snake bite.
• 31:51
  Oh, is that what that thing I've been bitching.
• 31:53
  You've been bit by the snake because you reached the leg out
• 31:56
  and you burn it on the side sill.
• 31:59
  Oh man.
• 31:59
  So, so this is actually really good tips for understanding how
• 32:04
  the viper's built what you should look for if you're buying one.
• 32:07
  Obviously Andrew just went through this experience and I think he, it
• 32:10
  was a trial by fire in some cases.
• 32:13
  So let's talk about if you're shopping for a viper.
• 32:16
  Mike, what should you be looking out for?
• 32:18
  What are some telltale signs?
• 32:20
  What are things that are known to go wrong?
• 32:21
  You know, some things that people might be afraid, oh, it's got that issue.
• 32:25
  I don't want to deal with that.
• 32:26
  Or it's something super simple.
• 32:27
  It's actually really cheap to fix.
• 32:29
  So let's kind of go with some of these buyer's tips.
• 32:31
  On a viper, depending on the generation, is gonna really depend on what the
• 32:35
  uh, ohs or the things that were problematic from 22 to even up to 2017.
• 32:40
  The oil cooler lines almost always leak.
• 32:42
  It's just a matter of time.
• 32:44
  They don't leak bad.
• 32:45
  I haven't seen any stock ones like blow out yet, but it is something
• 32:48
  that you eventually need to address.
• 32:49
  Again, nothing that's too big of a deal.
• 32:51
  You should worry about oil levels.
• 32:54
  If you go look at a guy's car and the oil is below the low.
• 32:57
  Point, maybe you should steer away from it.
• 32:59
  Again, it can be fixed.
• 33:00
  Anything on these cars can be fixed.
• 33:01
  That's the nice part about being built out of part spins.
• 33:04
  You just have to figure out where the parts actually came from
• 33:06
  and cross to something else.
• 33:08
  Like on the gen fours, the rear lift hatch, right?
• 33:11
  There's a button in the trunk to open the rear trunk.
• 33:14
  The viper part is like $200.
• 33:16
  You get the same exact button out of a Chrysler minivan for $15 on Amazon.
• 33:20
  There's a lot of many parts on this sports car.
• 33:22
  What?
• 33:22
  What's going on in here?
• 33:23
  Oh yes, you'd be surprised.
• 33:25
  So it really just comes down to the generation, right?
• 33:27
  Like the gen ones, they were so rudimentary, there
• 33:30
  wasn't any creature comfort.
• 33:31
  So like the dashboard gets super sticky because they just wear
• 33:35
  out unfortunately, and they get scratched up and just not look great.
• 33:38
  So that could be something that would steer somebody away, but again,
• 33:41
  they could be refinished and redone.
• 33:42
  But the gen ones were.
• 33:44
  Honestly, really solid as far as that stuff goes.
• 33:46
  The suspension was just a little bit more rudimentary, so it was easier to
• 33:50
  essentially kill yourself in because if you didn't know what you were
• 33:53
  doing, you could hurt yourself because again, no nannies, none of that.
• 33:56
  So the gen ones were pretty solid.
• 33:57
  Unfortunately, though, ethanol and the fuel nowadays.
• 34:00
  Eats away at the fuel hoses, inside the fuel pump, which then eventually
• 34:04
  causes them to split on the gen ones, not the end of the world.
• 34:08
  Fuel pump assembly comes out, you rebuild it and everything's okay.
• 34:11
  Again.
• 34:11
  So the gen ones, the big thing to look out for is when you turn that
• 34:14
  key and you crank it over, if it takes a little bit to crank over,
• 34:18
  it probably needs a fuel pressure regulator because it's not holding the
• 34:21
  fuel up into the rails and your fuel system probably needs to be rebuilt.
• 34:25
  That's the biggest issue that I've seen so far on the gen ones.
• 34:28
  Outside of like is that head gaskets will eventually go, but
• 34:31
  from a 92, are you including like the ones up to like the 2002?
• 34:35
  Depends.
• 34:35
  The Gen one and two to me are so similar that it's hard for me to differentiate.
• 34:39
  I When does it become gen?
• 34:41
  Is it 1997 that it became Gen two or 1996?
• 34:44
  No, when the GTS came out in 96, it became the second generation.
• 34:48
  Okay.
• 34:48
  Depending on where they were in that year is gonna depend on the
• 34:53
  kind of fuel pressure regulators that were in the fuel buckets.
• 34:56
  But it's mostly the gen ones that I've seen all the issues
• 34:58
  with, at least thus fall.
• 34:59
  Is that because there was a changeover in the minivans as well?
• 35:02
  They went from the caravan to the Grand Caravan or something?
• 35:05
  Is that why it changed?
• 35:06
  Um, so the regulators are actually the same as ones that are out of
• 35:10
  like a Dodge Durango and like the fuel floats for the gen ones are the
• 35:15
  same out of the Dodge Grand Caravan.
• 35:17
  I can buy the whole assembly for 80 bucks, but if I find a fuel float out
• 35:21
  of a viper, I'm gonna spend like 300.
• 35:23
  Oh geez.
• 35:24
  As far as the Gen two stuff goes, oil cooler lines were solid.
• 35:27
  The big things to look out for now that they're old are the cooling system
• 35:31
  hoses just 'cause rubber wears out.
• 35:33
  The power steering pump pulleys are huge because they were plastic.
• 35:36
  It's plastic onto mounted onto a metal shaft.
• 35:39
  It separates, it splits, it cracks, and then now you lose your serpentine belt,
• 35:43
  your cooling system, and you're stuck on the side of the road and you're pissed
• 35:46
  off all because the $10 part broke.
• 35:49
  But overall, like the gen twos were pretty solid outside of like a
• 35:52
  couple, you know, maintenance things.
• 35:54
  They didn't really have too many problems.
• 35:55
  Bottom S were pretty solid.
• 35:57
  They eventually switched over in 2000 to like the cream puff motors
• 36:01
  where they switched out the cams and they got rid of the forged pistons.
• 36:05
  When they switched over to that stuff, they didn't have any, at least from what
• 36:07
  I've seen so far, they haven't had any like bearing issues or anything like that.
• 36:11
  They just changed the cam up a little bit to meet some EPA stuff.
• 36:14
  But overall, the gen twos are really solid, so that's kind of nice.
• 36:17
  The one thing to look out for too, as far as paint goes on the gen twos is
• 36:21
  the side cells are aluminum, right?
• 36:24
  So they corrode from the backside, then bubble the paint, and then like rust
• 36:28
  through, people think it's all from heat.
• 36:30
  Well, it's not actually all from heat, it's from corrosion on the backside.
• 36:34
  But everyone says online, oh, it's because the cats are so hot it plays
• 36:37
  a part, but it's not necessarily true.
• 36:38
  The early cars, were they ahead of their time?
• 36:41
  They were at least OBD one, correct?
• 36:43
  Or not?
• 36:44
  Early model Gen one stuff is OBD one.
• 36:46
  As soon as they switched over to 96 when everything had to go O2, it's OB D two.
• 36:51
  Okay.
• 36:51
  I mean, it's rudimentary OB two, but it's OB two.
• 36:54
  You can hook a scanner up and read some things and on the later cars, the three
• 36:58
  fours and fives, some buying tips.
• 36:59
  If you're looking at this, especially the threes now that you know, Andrew's already
• 37:02
  gotten his, it was, it was a whole thing.
• 37:04
  I've been looking forward to these my whole life.
• 37:05
  I had a Lotus Elite tracked it for a year and then you know, COVID happened
• 37:10
  and used cars started skyrocketing and the first thing to go up were those
• 37:14
  specialty cars and I looked at the price releases go up 40, 50% and I took it.
• 37:19
  I got rid of that and that's when I knew it was like I had to have
• 37:21
  a viper and the first Viper I looked at in person was a 2002.
• 37:25
  So Jen.
• 37:26
  To final edition Coop Red with White Stripes.
• 37:29
  It was the car that I had a poster of as a kid, unfortunately did not work out.
• 37:33
  The guy had three in his garage.
• 37:35
  Young guy.
• 37:36
  He had bought three.
• 37:36
  He knew the market was going up.
• 37:38
  He had a blue with white stripes.
• 37:39
  He had a red RT 10 gen one, and he had this gen two final
• 37:43
  edition they bought from a guy.
• 37:44
  I was so upset because he had the title in someone else's name and
• 37:47
  I went to get financing and they wouldn't follow through on it.
• 37:49
  You were mentioning the fuel pump getting messed up and even the one that he had on
• 37:53
  a battery maintainer, it wouldn't start.
• 37:55
  It just like turned over 10, 15 seconds, which is excruciatingly
• 37:59
  a long amount of time.
• 38:00
  Yeah, and it finally ran, but I ended up with this Gen three
• 38:04
  off of cars and bids.com.
• 38:06
  After buying another Gen three from a Florida dealer who told me
• 38:11
  this car is in good condition, I, I talked to him on the phone, I see
• 38:14
  it on Autotrader and it gets here.
• 38:15
  And then, you know, we were kind of texting about this one the other day
• 38:18
  because I gotta, you know, I gotta do this front control arms, but this other
• 38:21
  one that I got, oh my God, it was trash.
• 38:24
  Cool tank is cracked, so it wasn't even holding cooling.
• 38:26
  So it shows up with a check engine light on and I think, oh,
• 38:29
  you know, it just needs cooling.
• 38:30
  Fill the cooling up.
• 38:31
  It drains out within like a hundred miles of driving.
• 38:35
  So I get it to my buddy's shop, put it on a list.
• 38:38
  He's got no O2 sensors, a straight pipe exhausted shooting flames out the side,
• 38:41
  which I must admit was the coolest fucking thing ever, and it sounded great.
• 38:45
  But downstream, O2 sensors removed.
• 38:47
  You know, they put resistors in, both of them burned out or
• 38:49
  the right side, one burned out.
• 38:51
  He goes underneath and he's starting to rub everything and there's oil everywhere.
• 38:54
  We're like, what is this?
• 38:55
  Well, it was either power steering fluid.
• 38:57
  Oil or coolant couldn't discern what it was.
• 39:01
  There was three types of fluid in there that within five days of owning
• 39:04
  it, six days, the clutch just went to the floor one morning when I went to
• 39:07
  start it and I couldn't get it in or outta gear, turn on a first game chunk.
• 39:10
  But yeah, I got rid of it.
• 39:11
  The guy took it back, he paid me for it and uh, I ended up
• 39:14
  winning this one on, you know, the officer set a couple days later.
• 39:17
  I love it.
• 39:18
  I think a part of me will always be disappointed and get that
• 39:21
  gen two, gen twos, arguably.
• 39:22
  I know Eric had, he had a lot to say to me when I was, when I told
• 39:26
  him I got the gen three because.
• 39:27
  Yeah, it's uh, it's Mercedes.
• 39:29
  It's crap.
• 39:29
  It's parts spin car.
• 39:30
  And uh, you know, I, I love the gen twos as much as anyone else.
• 39:33
  I'm still happy with it, but, you know, we're gonna be talking in the future
• 39:36
  because there's gonna be, I'm sure many things that need to be replaced.
• 39:40
  He's saying is he wants try, he's gonna try to make your Gen three cool.
• 39:44
  It's, it's a hard task, but he's gonna try to make it cool.
• 39:48
  Alright, turbo supercharger.
• 39:49
  What we doing?
• 39:50
  Uh, let's start smaller first.
• 39:53
  Like you can make a good amount of power with like heads and cam out
• 39:56
  of those cars, you know, I mean, what you started out with 5 0 5.
• 39:59
  Our last head and CAM package put down six 14 to the wheels, which is technically
• 40:03
  a little bit more power than a gen five.
• 40:05
  Okay.
• 40:06
  So it's just, it's basically making the changes that they
• 40:08
  did for the gen four in 2008.
• 40:11
  And was it bigger intake or you'd say just the cams, bolt them on,
• 40:14
  still trying to learn, that's all.
• 40:16
  Basically.
• 40:16
  That's okay.
• 40:16
  I can teach you.
• 40:17
  I'm fine with that.
• 40:18
  So basically with like the heads and cams stuff, we port and polish the heads.
• 40:21
  We go larger intake and exhaust valves.
• 40:24
  So it flows a lot more air.
• 40:25
  It goes headers, exhaust.
• 40:27
  We keep the stock intake.
• 40:28
  Stock injectors.
• 40:29
  Would you do?
• 40:29
  Upgrade the fuel pump, but outside of that you add those couple different things and
• 40:33
  you get to put down a bunch more power.
• 40:35
  That is the recipe for most, I assume you got American, you gotta tune it.
• 40:38
  Yeah, of course You have to tune it.
• 40:39
  Yeah.
• 40:40
  I got a ZL one that sent my track car recently and I bought it from a guy
• 40:44
  who had a intake, a pulley in exhaust.
• 40:47
  No tune.
• 40:48
  And I took that shit to New Jersey Motorist Park and threw
• 40:50
  codes on every session for fuel pump issues, this and that.
• 40:54
  And I, and I finally take it through shop and the guy goes, this is the stock ECU.
• 40:58
  And I'm like, what?
• 40:58
  He was like, that guy put all that stuff into it and then drove it like a grandpa
• 41:02
  and never once had an issue with it.
• 41:04
  Running lean.
• 41:05
  I gotta find that on the track.
• 41:07
  So now I'm, now I'm savvy.
• 41:08
  Now I know to get stuff tuned, but, well, I'm happy you're learning
• 41:10
  some things through time here.
• 41:12
  As we move into those Gen threes, obviously you see more and more
• 41:15
  Bosch like stuff because of this portion of Chrysler's history.
• 41:19
  Daimler, you know, Mercedes had taken over the company, so you probably see a
• 41:23
  lot more German type of parts in there.
• 41:25
  And then obviously later they sold to fiat when the Gem fours and fives came out.
• 41:29
  So then it was FCA at that point and, and that's when the redesigns come in.
• 41:33
  And I will say across the board at Chrysler, I thought Fiat did an excellent
• 41:36
  job redesigning cars inside and out.
• 41:39
  But what we haven't talked about yet is what to look out for if you were
• 41:42
  buying one of these later edition Vipers, the gen four or Gen five.
• 41:46
  So what's on the buyer's guide there?
• 41:48
  The typical thing to really look for on Gen four is the oil cooler lines.
• 41:52
  Like we've discussed, gen fours were pretty solid, and they do
• 41:55
  have issues with window regulators.
• 41:57
  The window regulators through most of the generations were kind of crappy.
• 42:00
  The glue they used weren't, wasn't good.
• 42:02
  All that fun stuff.
• 42:03
  So Gen fours were fortunate enough to get the swinging pickup upgrade from the
• 42:07
  Gen threes, so it didn't have as many oiling issues when you were on the track.
• 42:11
  So overall, the Gen fours were pretty solid as far as that stuff goes.
• 42:15
  Until you, there were certain modifications that people could do that.
• 42:18
  Would screw things up.
• 42:19
  But as far as stock goes, they were overall really solid.
• 42:23
  As long as you weren't gonna be having misfires or anything like that, which
• 42:26
  you know, you should change your spark plug wires out and all that stuff.
• 42:30
  We as car guys know that that's normal maintenance overall, the
• 42:33
  gen fours were really solid.
• 42:34
  They didn't really seem to have any bearing issues, of course, unless
• 42:37
  you were really hard tracking 'em or running 'em low on oil.
• 42:40
  The, just the big thing where really the oil cooler lines on those and the
• 42:43
  window regulators were super common.
• 42:45
  And of course the typical interior issues that all of them had, but overall, they
• 42:49
  didn't were one of the better ones.
• 42:51
  Yeah, the dash that cracks and pieces that fade and peel and
• 42:56
  then you need that stuff restored.
• 42:57
  But the gen fours are overall pretty solid.
• 42:59
  The subwoofer, oh my God, I, you, you love that.
• 43:02
  I thought it was blown.
• 43:03
  The box is so shaky that even when I, I took as much apart as I could and
• 43:08
  I. Foam in there and it still rattles and I go online to see how to fix it.
• 43:13
  You gotta remove the whole piece that goes underneath the door, still up
• 43:17
  behind the car and covers the box to get in there and stop the rattling.
• 43:21
  And it involves taking the seats out and this and that.
• 43:23
  And I'm like, if you have any suggestions on how to make that sub
• 43:26
  for enclosures, stop sounding like literally a busted old, you know,
• 43:30
  Honda Civic can tell you exactly.
• 43:32
  I love it.
• 43:32
  Would how to fix it.
• 43:33
  Alright.
• 43:34
  Sounds like it's probably boring.
• 43:35
  We could talk about that offline, but you know, I'll greatly appreciate
• 43:39
  it because man, I'm trying to listen to my base, get amped up to the gym
• 43:42
  driving somewhere and I'm like, all right, base down to negative eight.
• 43:46
  And it's still rattling.
• 43:47
  I mean, who needs a stereo?
• 43:50
  Who needs a stereo?
• 43:51
  When you have a big, when I can listen to that truck engine that,
• 43:54
  that, that beautiful tractor.
• 43:56
  It's a moan thing.
• 43:57
  It's more like woo.
• 43:59
  But that's okay.
• 44:00
  So the gen fives are still pretty new, so I'm assuming they haven't
• 44:03
  lived long enough lives yet to really come up with some major problems.
• 44:08
  You know, if you were buying one, right?
• 44:09
  So there was some major problems.
• 44:11
  Um, there was, believe it or not, it was common, but not that
• 44:15
  common sort of problem, right?
• 44:16
  Everyone online, if they had a bearing problem, everyone had a bearing problem.
• 44:19
  A lot of guys were having bearing issues.
• 44:22
  But the other issue of that is, is if you don't monitor your motor
• 44:25
  oil, you probably are gonna have motor issues or a bearing issue.
• 44:28
  If you let the car sit for three or four months and all the oil drains back into
• 44:32
  the pan and you start that thing up, it's a dry start and it's gonna wear the
• 44:36
  bearings out more and more over time.
• 44:38
  On top of it, they switched over to a zero 20 or a zero 40 for the
• 44:43
  stock motor oil, which I think was like a marketing aspect 'cause they
• 44:47
  were gonna start using Pennzoil.
• 44:48
  But when you talk to the engineers and everything else.
• 44:51
  All the cars that leave my shop get at least five 40 in them, if not 1540 or
• 44:56
  1550 depending on what the application is because that zero eight oil is
• 45:00
  just too thin and it can cause some of that premature bearing wear over time.
• 45:04
  And the bearing wear was pretty big on those.
• 45:06
  In 17, there was some like hush hush things that were kind of
• 45:09
  happening with some of the diffs where the wrong fluid may have been
• 45:12
  used and it was blowing diffs up.
• 45:15
  Of course it was all covered under warranty, but if, you know, if you
• 45:17
  buy a 17 and there's 200 miles on it, change your diff fluid because.
• 45:22
  You don't wanna blow a diff up just in case that's kind of a bad thing.
• 45:25
  A little bit more common issues that guys had, whereas the bearing issues on
• 45:29
  the gen fives and like the diff issues.
• 45:32
  But outside of that, there hasn't, at least from what I've seen thus far from
• 45:36
  all the collection management I've been doing, I haven't seen too many issues
• 45:39
  with the Gen fives outside of the typical, Hey, your oil cooler line's
• 45:43
  leaking, or We're just gonna change all the fluids out and all that jazz.
• 45:47
  So I know this sounds like a redundant question, but it's a
• 45:49
  professional opinion question here.
• 45:51
  Yeah.
• 45:51
  So to kind of wrap up this thought, because there are five different
• 45:54
  generations of the Viper and they all have their idiosyncrasies and everything else,
• 45:58
  but you, Mike, if you were gonna recommend somebody buy a Viper today, their first
• 46:02
  Viper, Andrew doesn't get a vote on this one, the best year, maybe the worst
• 46:07
  year, Targa or Coop, what would you pick?
• 46:10
  What would you tell somebody?
• 46:11
  I would pick a early model gen two.
• 46:14
  So the early models were 96 to 99.
• 46:17
  That would be what I get into for a couple different reasons.
• 46:20
  One, it was the Iconic Viper, so even if it's not blue and white, it
• 46:23
  still was like the iconic Viper two.
• 46:26
  I'm six four and I don't fit in these cars as it is.
• 46:29
  The gen twos I fit in the most I can actually see out of the windshield, even
• 46:33
  though my eyes are up towards the top, when I drive the later generations, I
• 46:36
  have to duck my head down so I can see through the windshield and see the lights.
• 46:40
  So for me, the size of the car matters and the Gen two to me personally
• 46:45
  has the most amount of space.
• 46:46
  And in my personal opinion, I like the gen twos the most because they
• 46:50
  also seem to be the most reliable.
• 46:51
  As long as you maintain them well enough.
• 46:53
  And if you ever want to go add more power, the gen two, gen threes are
• 46:57
  really easy to add power without going turboed and everything else.
• 47:00
  And it gives you still that raw feeling.
• 47:02
  I'll never forget when I first started driving, when he would let me take his
• 47:05
  Mustang out, my dad always told me this traction control button, if you turn
• 47:09
  it off and it doesn't kill you, I will.
• 47:12
  So like as a kid, when I was really young, I asked, what's that button do dad?
• 47:16
  He turns it off and we go through an intersection freaking sideways, and
• 47:20
  he goes, that's what that does and you will never turn that button off.
• 47:25
  And ironically enough, now I get to test drive vipers that are.
• 47:29
  600 to 1200 horsepower that don't have any traction control.
• 47:33
  So I need to know what I'm doing.
• 47:34
  Let's do this.
• 47:35
  'cause Andrew has evolved a lot.
• 47:37
  As of many of our members in our audience will attest.
• 47:41
  You know, he's grown a lot as his DIY shade tree mechanic.
• 47:44
  You know, he moved from, let's say, production cars.
• 47:47
  I mean, he had the, he had the Lotus, which is considerably an exotic,
• 47:50
  but hey, it's a Celica engine.
• 47:52
  So we can, we can live with that cheaper.
• 47:54
  But you move into this super, super absolute cheapest, you move
• 47:56
  into this supercar territory, things change immediately.
• 48:00
  There's tax, like we joke about the, you know, the M tax and the, you know,
• 48:04
  the Porsche tax and things like that.
• 48:05
  So you have the cost, like you said, of viper parts, but then
• 48:09
  there's also, you have to have a specialty, quote unquote, mechanic
• 48:13
  work on these vehicles, or is that.
• 48:15
  A myth, are these cars actually workable by the average, let's say, guy that
• 48:22
  knows how to turn a wrencher to like how hard is it to work on a viper?
• 48:27
  I know I sent Mike this picture, but that's exactly what I was trying
• 48:31
  to talk to him about because I'm looking at stuff and I'm like, cool.
• 48:33
  It needs a new, uh, sway bar, InLinks, it needs a new control arm.
• 48:38
  And I got another shop to quote me, $800 per control arm.
• 48:42
  He didn't even quote me on the sway bar InLinks.
• 48:45
  Looked him up two 50 a piece.
• 48:47
  And that is a what?
• 48:48
  $50 part?
• 48:49
  My buddy's got an SRS My buddy Andrew, who's at the track, he just had to replace
• 48:52
  his, and I'm like, he, he was doing his, uh, coil overs and he broke a sway bar
• 48:57
  in like, he got it overnighted for like, I think he said 30 bucks, 40 bucks.
• 49:01
  You can get the end links on.
• 49:01
  I'm looking at for like 30 bucks.
• 49:03
  Alright, once again, we're gonna be having another conversation soon,
• 49:06
  so I really gotta, we're glad we gotta get this rapport before I
• 49:09
  started asking you to work on my car.
• 49:12
  Well, we're also gonna check with our friends over at Powerflex to see if
• 49:15
  they make anything for the Viper too.
• 49:17
  That's a one and done solution.
• 49:18
  When we go down that road, I mean, you absolutely know within the next year
• 49:22
  I'm coming to you to do the headers.
• 49:24
  Everything, dude.
• 49:25
  Yeah.
• 49:25
  600 horsepower.
• 49:26
  That's good.
• 49:27
  500. Nah, that's not enough.
• 49:29
  That's, that's not enough.
• 49:30
  We gotta make as much as, you know, what I'll do is I'll get that gen
• 49:33
  four hood with the bigger vent and after, after I get the 600 horsepower,
• 49:38
  because then I'm not opposed, then I can be like, well it is a 2006.
• 49:41
  It has the hood, but it also has the power a little bit more.
• 49:45
  There you go.
• 49:46
  You got me.
• 49:46
  You got me excited about that.
• 49:47
  So for those of us that aren't ballers, like Andrew, going back to my original
• 49:52
  question, if I don't have kids, but if I wanted to turn wrenches, kidding.
• 49:59
  If I wanted to turn wrenches on my own, Viper, how difficult would it be?
• 50:03
  My personal side says, oh yeah, they're really hard because
• 50:06
  that's what I do for a living.
• 50:07
  But honestly, at the end of the day, they're very easy cars, right?
• 50:10
  Like to put it in perspective, if you had to change an oil pan gasket at
• 50:14
  the track, you could easily do it.
• 50:16
  They're simple push rod motors, and a lot of guys know through the
• 50:19
  years how push rod motors work.
• 50:21
  The timing is literally the crankshaft and the camshaft.
• 50:24
  You line those two up, it's two pieces.
• 50:26
  It's not four or five pieces that you have to line up with belts and crap.
• 50:30
  So they are pretty easy to work on and most things you
• 50:33
  don't really need a lift for.
• 50:35
  Again, they make it easier.
• 50:36
  The shocks come out pretty easy.
• 50:38
  The shocks are two bolts unless you're going to like remote
• 50:41
  reservoirs and everything else.
• 50:42
  Overall, they're pretty easy to work on.
• 50:44
  There's definitely some nuances that like it would help if
• 50:47
  you would ask some questions.
• 50:49
  So if there are people that do work on their own car and they want to call me
• 50:52
  and I can try to direct them in the right direction, I'm more than happy to do that.
• 50:56
  If you wanna work on your own stuff.
• 50:57
  I actually kind of encourage it because again, it keeps the comradery
• 51:02
  together and people really, some guys really like to wrench on their own
• 51:05
  cars and it's really not that hard.
• 51:07
  At the end of the day.
• 51:08
  I also joke around and say, it's like big boy Legos.
• 51:10
  Like if you pull one motor apart, you can put one together.
• 51:14
  It's like as, as long as you put it back the same way it came in, then you're okay.
• 51:18
  Well, I'm secretly asking, knowing that Andrew's gonna come to my garage and
• 51:22
  inevitably I'm gonna end up working on his Viper when you, when you can't, Mike.
• 51:25
  So I was was gonna, you said, you said you were, you were down, but you said, I've
• 51:29
  never worked on a Viper and I would like to, and, and for everyone listening, I
• 51:33
  wanted you to know how good of a guy Mike is because I had an issue with this one.
• 51:37
  Now I had an issue with the other one too, but this one, two days after I
• 51:39
  got it, I go, you know, I take my girl out, we go to brunch, driving back.
• 51:44
  Starts bucking like crazy.
• 51:46
  And it happened the day before and I was like, oh, cool, something's
• 51:49
  gonna go wrong, but I'm gonna ignore it until I actually know what it
• 51:51
  is because no lights, whatever.
• 51:53
  And I get strained on the side of the highway and I throw codes and it ended
• 51:58
  up being the crankshaft position sensor.
• 52:00
  I go online nothing.
• 52:01
  I can't find anything.
• 52:02
  I found a foreign version of the, uh, service manual, one page at a time.
• 52:08
  No way to search it.
• 52:08
  And I'm lost.
• 52:09
  I can find a camshaft physician sensor, but I couldn't find what to do.
• 52:12
  Mike, literally, he goes, oh yeah, I know what to do.
• 52:15
  He sends me a PDF of the 400 page of service manual and he goes,
• 52:18
  I'm gonna have her on a list tomorrow, send you a picture.
• 52:20
  Fortunately, that night I was able to replace it, $15 part at,
• 52:23
  uh, AutoZone, but it got the car running again and it was easy to do.
• 52:28
  Once I found the part, it was a little hard to get to.
• 52:30
  He was so helpful.
• 52:31
  'cause I, I have a buddy at the gym who has a gen two.
• 52:34
  He gave me another Viper mechanics number first, and that
• 52:37
  guy, he wasn't really helpful.
• 52:38
  Like, he was like, oh, super easy.
• 52:40
  It's like changing your oil, which clearly was like a jab at like,
• 52:44
  you should be able to do this.
• 52:46
  And I'm like, bro, I can't find the sensor.
• 52:47
  Like I, I'm brand new to this car.
• 52:49
  It's on the rear side that.
• 52:51
  Mike helped me and, and because of Mike's help, I was able to do it that night.
• 52:54
  And Mike, I appreciate that so much because I got the car
• 52:57
  running and I got to get that.
• 52:58
  Yeah.
• 52:58
  You're saying the camaraderie between people that work on their cars.
• 53:01
  It's awesome because I do so much work at Eric's house, mainly because he's got the
• 53:04
  awesome race deck floor and quick jack.
• 53:07
  But mainly because he is the most knowledgeable now, maybe the second
• 53:11
  most on this call, but he is the most knowledgeable guy I know working on cars.
• 53:15
  He puts the engines in other cars, he can do everything.
• 53:17
  And so I won't deny that If I have anything big to do, I'm
• 53:20
  coming to Eric's house to do it.
• 53:21
  I just trust him to help me.
• 53:23
  That's fine.
• 53:23
  Just gimme a call.
• 53:24
  Like I said, I wanna add a viper to my resume, whether I own one or work on one.
• 53:28
  I'm gonna, I'm gonna get it on there so it's all good.
• 53:30
  Right.
• 53:31
  Well that being said, cool.
• 53:32
  You wanna, you wanna do some control arms with me because
• 53:35
  hey man, not gonna pay the shop.
• 53:36
  They quoted me 12 labor.
• 53:39
  I got the presses man, I just did a set of ones the other day.
• 53:42
  They quoted you 1200 for the labor, $800 for each control
• 53:47
  arm, not the sway bar inland.
• 53:49
  And they gave me a printout because once again I bought this car.
• 53:51
  The guy said it was perfect.
• 53:53
  We get it on the lift and there's oil everywhere coming from the control arm.
• 53:56
  So I contact guy, he's a super rich guy in Florida that had like a bunch of
• 54:00
  Ferrari and I talked to him and he is like, he's like, oh, I'm so sorry man.
• 54:03
  Like.
• 54:03
  He offered to help me with the cost of getting that repair.
• 54:06
  So I told my buddy to send me a, a quote, so he might've told them to, you know,
• 54:10
  quote it, whatever the maximum price was.
• 54:12
  But I think it's fair to say that as much as I trust them, I, I don't
• 54:16
  think I wanna shell out the, it would be 1800 to get that done.
• 54:19
  That might be something if Eric, if you think you're up for it, that would
• 54:22
  be something to do at your house.
• 54:23
  Let's, let's do a little, let's do a little homework.
• 54:25
  We'll talk about this with Mike offline.
• 54:27
  Right.
• 54:28
  It's easy because it's easy.
• 54:29
  It's easy.
• 54:30
  We, we'll do.
• 54:31
  Beer, beers and foods on me.
• 54:35
  Just make sure when you guys get the wheel alignment done, you
• 54:37
  get it done at a reputable place.
• 54:39
  Specifically those like gen three, gen four cars, if you get it done
• 54:42
  at a Dodge dealership, they actually strap the car down and add driver
• 54:46
  and passenger weight to the car and do the wheel alignment that way.
• 54:49
  And that's why the wheel alignments are usually like 200 bucks.
• 54:52
  Oh, interesting.
• 54:53
  So, okay, so you can do the work and then you just gotta do the alignment
• 54:56
  afterwards somewhere reputable.
• 54:57
  Correct.
• 54:57
  That's easy enough.
• 54:58
  So that's not too bad.
• 54:58
  Just make sure they have an actual wiper tech and one that actually
• 55:01
  knows how to open the hood.
• 55:02
  That's the true test.
• 55:04
  I dunno how to open the, I know this guy named, I know this guy named Mike.
• 55:07
  I dunno if he's good for it, but the reason I was asking about, you know,
• 55:11
  how hard are they to work on and how, how easy are they to work on?
• 55:14
  Is that.
• 55:15
  In my imagination coming from Shelby's Pen, right?
• 55:20
  And with his influence in this, it's probably very race car-like in some
• 55:25
  of its setup, which means certain pieces, like the suspension, like
• 55:28
  you said, it's held on by two bolts.
• 55:30
  That's very much like, Hey, I need to be able to change this over the pit
• 55:33
  wall, you know, at LeMans in 30 seconds and get the driver back out on track.
• 55:37
  You know, that kind of thing.
• 55:38
  So if there's a lot of that type of engineering involved in the Viper,
• 55:42
  for me, that's not intimidating.
• 55:44
  That to me signals this is actually easier to work on than your standard
• 55:49
  production car where everything's jammed in there because you're trying to maximize
• 55:52
  people space or, or whatever it is.
• 55:54
  Or maybe it's over-engineered like some other vehicles are.
• 55:57
  So is that true or is.
• 55:58
  Am I on the wrong path?
• 55:59
  1000%. 90% of the stuff you can need to fi.
• 56:03
  If you would need to fix it, you could fix it at the track, right?
• 56:05
  Like if you had to do an oil pan gasket at the track, you could do it there.
• 56:08
  Like it's not that hard.
• 56:09
  I mean, on the Gen Threes park plug wires, they put them underneath the
• 56:12
  intake manifold, which is rather annoying.
• 56:15
  You know, that's probably the more difficult things to do, but
• 56:18
  it's really just pull the intake and then do the wires there.
• 56:20
  Overall, you can fix most things to the track, right?
• 56:23
  Like it's a simple two bolt design on the coil overs.
• 56:26
  Control arms are three bolts.
• 56:28
  Or it's two bolts and a ball joint, so it's nothing like crazy.
• 56:31
  They're easy to get to.
• 56:32
  It's easy to pull off wheel bearings, at least on the later gens are
• 56:36
  all just bolted in, so it's, you can swap 'em out pretty quick.
• 56:38
  You know, it's the Brembo style calipers, so you just pump the
• 56:41
  pads in and out like you can.
• 56:43
  So there was a lot of things like that that they did do.
• 56:45
  So you could do those things on the track if you need.
• 56:48
  Go ahead.
• 56:48
  So you can track, I would love to know what you think needs to be checked,
• 56:52
  because when I first started getting into my car, I saw that boxer and Evo 3
• 56:57
  35, a bunch of like, you know, fun cars.
• 56:59
  And it was really not until Eric and I's mutual friend Sam, he had a,
• 57:03
  uh, a blue w Rx, STI that he started tracking before he got his fe racer.
• 57:08
  You know, I had a white Evo, he had the blue Subaru, went to the
• 57:11
  same gym, saw each other every day.
• 57:12
  Eventually it's like you the, or you the Evo, you have the Subaru.
• 57:14
  And you know, we ended up talking about, he got me the track and for five years
• 57:18
  now I've been doing all the, uh, you know, de events on what would I need to
• 57:21
  check on this because I can't own this and not take it to the track at least once.
• 57:25
  But when I was under there.
• 57:26
  I saw a lot of it was a Florida car, 15-year-old Dodge product.
• 57:31
  There's a lot of stuff in the suspension components at at least that I see
• 57:35
  that needs some, you know, repair.
• 57:37
  I would love to know what you recommend and maybe, you know,
• 57:40
  I'll bring it in sometime.
• 57:41
  We can run it over.
• 57:42
  Gimme the Okay.
• 57:43
  Or one other side question is the transmission.
• 57:45
  I know they're all the TREM X.
• 57:47
  They're pretty bulky.
• 57:48
  I notice a lot of like s floppiness, if I'm in third, fourth and I get on
• 57:52
  the gasket off, I can hear like some metal and metal in there and you know,
• 57:56
  20,000 miles, 15 years old, had five owners and I'm sure they beat on it.
• 58:00
  I don't know if it needs a new clutch or if that's just, there
• 58:03
  is some play in that transmission.
• 58:05
  It's just one thing that worries me because I don't want, you know,
• 58:07
  you can fix everything on the track except for the transmission.
• 58:09
  Yeah, that would be a, uh, a, that'd be a bad one, but, you
• 58:13
  know, not the end of the world.
• 58:13
  Could be fluids, it could be the throwout bearing could be going bad in it.
• 58:18
  That's like kind of typical with the older age on almost all the generations too.
• 58:22
  The throwout bearings wear out.
• 58:23
  But if you're gonna be doing track stuff, you of course you
• 58:25
  want to check over your shocks.
• 58:27
  You know, they're probably original, so they, there's a good
• 58:29
  chance they might be leaking.
• 58:30
  Check your wheel bearings, check your ball joints, control arms, sway bar links.
• 58:34
  Make sure all the suspension stuff looks good.
• 58:36
  All your brakes looks good.
• 58:37
  Brake fluids probably never been changed.
• 58:39
  Power steering fluids probably never been changed.
• 58:41
  The big thing on your car that I actually had an issue today is on the sum of the
• 58:45
  gen threes, the crank bolt can back out.
• 58:47
  So make sure you torque that thing down because.
• 58:51
  Like today I was picking up a customer car and I get to the
• 58:54
  shop and I hear this squeaking.
• 58:56
  Well, the crank bolt started to back itself out pulling the pulley off
• 58:58
  the crank, which would be very bad.
• 59:00
  You can do a lot of damage that way.
• 59:02
  So like check over those things.
• 59:04
  Make sure the oil's topped off.
• 59:05
  Yeah, I mean you're all your basic track stuff.
• 59:08
  Well, I don't wanna speak for Eric, but Eric, I'd love if we could do a road trip.
• 59:11
  Hop in, Eric, you drive the vi route.
• 59:13
  We'll visit Mike, check out the shop.
• 59:15
  We'll get that thing up there and uh, get it track ready.
• 59:18
  Hopefully.
• 59:18
  Get it inspected.
• 59:19
  And actually that, that's a really great segue that you brought this up, Andrew.
• 59:23
  So Mike, if you were looking at Andrew's Viper and it needs new shocks or it needs
• 59:28
  new this or new that, are there certain mods that he should be thinking about
• 59:33
  making that you know aren't outrageous?
• 59:35
  Like the stuff we were talking about, oh, we're gonna throw cams in it.
• 59:37
  You headers.
• 59:38
  Yeah.
• 59:38
  And all this kinda stuff.
• 59:39
  The way I look at it, and the way I was brought up was if you're gonna
• 59:41
  replace a factory part, try to find a racier part or a higher quality part.
• 59:46
  'cause a, it's gonna last you longer on the street.
• 59:48
  It's gonna give you maybe a different ride or different feel you're looking for.
• 59:52
  But is, is there something about the Viper you're like, you know, you
• 59:54
  should really consider modding this.
• 59:56
  If you were gonna track it or autocross it or something like that.
• 59:59
  Just solely due to the age I would replace those coil overs.
• 1:00:03
  It's your entry level coil over like a BC coil over or run.
• 1:00:05
  You probably have 14, 1500 for the set.
• 1:00:08
  Again, that's entry level.
• 1:00:09
  You can go crazy, like I just ordered a set of Penskes for like
• 1:00:11
  six grand for a customer's car today.
• 1:00:13
  You can really go all.
• 1:00:15
  The bushings and the control arms are probably old and
• 1:00:18
  maybe cracked and dry rotted.
• 1:00:20
  You can upgrade those with deran bushings.
• 1:00:22
  Like you push the old bushings out, you put the de rans in, and
• 1:00:25
  between that and new shocks, it transforms the way that car handles.
• 1:00:29
  It's totally a different animal and it's amazing.
• 1:00:31
  Like a close friend of mine slash car that we kind of sponsor,
• 1:00:34
  he's really big into autocross.
• 1:00:35
  It's got Penske racing shocks on it.
• 1:00:37
  Del Rand bushings all the way around on all four corners and he races the
• 1:00:41
  balls off this thing weekend after weekend at every autocross event he can.
• 1:00:45
  Driving that car versus a stock car is mind blowingly different.
• 1:00:49
  First thing I noticed, maybe in the last one I drove, that
• 1:00:51
  one did have leaky shocks.
• 1:00:52
  This one, the shocks aren't leaking, but you know, I go over the speed
• 1:00:55
  bumps in my neighborhood and I hear creaky noises and stuff.
• 1:00:58
  I uh, I noticed the car tram lines like nothing I've ever felt before.
• 1:01:03
  I remember my first time coming off an exit ramp, obviously pushing a
• 1:01:06
  little bit, coming onto the highway.
• 1:01:07
  No cars.
• 1:01:08
  But it pulled me, like in the second lane, it pulled me back into the first lane.
• 1:01:12
  Like, oh shit, there's something breaking.
• 1:01:14
  I'm ready to like, saw the wheel and like save it.
• 1:01:16
  I was like, oh no, that's just following the lines of the road, which 3 45.
• 1:01:22
  They grab, they grab everything.
• 1:01:24
  Yes, they do.
• 1:01:24
  They, they pull you all over the place and it's something to get used to.
• 1:01:28
  I mean, I have the Lotus with no stability or traction control and
• 1:01:31
  190 horsepower, 1400 less pounds.
• 1:01:34
  But this thing, it's a different beast and it, I've never driven anything like
• 1:01:38
  it as much as it's pretty easy to handle.
• 1:01:41
  You know, I'm gonna wait until I get it on the track before I make my pool.
• 1:01:45
  So if you change out the suspension and the tires, 95% of
• 1:01:49
  that tram railing will go away.
• 1:01:51
  I figured, yeah.
• 1:01:52
  Suspension's probably overdue.
• 1:01:53
  15 years is probably about time, which it's, I'm sure that I could go five
• 1:01:58
  years of street driving this and not have to do it, but I want to drive
• 1:02:01
  this car for what it was meant to do.
• 1:02:03
  So earlier I asked you what was the best viper if you were buying your first one.
• 1:02:07
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:02:08
  But what's the best, if you're buying a track or performance weekend
• 1:02:12
  warrior type of Viper, what would you recommend for somebody that
• 1:02:15
  wanted to do more spirited driving?
• 1:02:17
  Personally, if I was gonna go buy a Viper that I was gonna dedicate to
• 1:02:21
  track use, I'd probably look into like a gen three that was possibly an R
• 1:02:25
  type, because you can pick 'em up for cheaper, which means you can throw the
• 1:02:28
  work that you need into it to make it outperform everything else on the track.
• 1:02:31
  Now again, we're not talking like a CR level here.
• 1:02:34
  Like if you go out and buy a 2017 a CR, you throw that thing at any
• 1:02:37
  track and you are to cross track, it's like gonna be a monster.
• 1:02:40
  There's almost no competing with it.
• 1:02:41
  When you have what the rear wings on those things have like.
• 1:02:45
  1700 pounds of down force, or I think with full gills removed and
• 1:02:50
  all the vents over the wheels, it'll generate over 3000 pounds of
• 1:02:53
  down force or something like that.
• 1:02:54
  Yep.
• 1:02:55
  So are you serious?
• 1:02:56
  Yeah.
• 1:02:56
  Yeah.
• 1:02:57
  That's wild.
• 1:02:58
  I know.
• 1:02:58
  I remember seeing a forum post about a guy trailering his car to the track
• 1:03:02
  and he was getting five less miles per gallon because he had his a CR on the
• 1:03:06
  back of an open trailer and the down ports just on the highway from that
• 1:03:09
  was throwing things off like crazy.
• 1:03:11
  Over a thousand pounds of down.
• 1:03:12
  That's, that's wild.
• 1:03:14
  I don't, I seen any car does that.
• 1:03:15
  It's insane being in one of those cars.
• 1:03:16
  Right.
• 1:03:16
  Like my, a buddy of mine bought one directly from the factory.
• 1:03:20
  We were on our way home, you know, in Mexico, of course he broke like
• 1:03:23
  a little over a hundred and you just feel the car squat, he hits like one
• 1:03:27
  20 and it's almost like the car is slowing down because there's so much.
• 1:03:31
  Downforce that yes, it's accelerating, but it's not doing what it was doing
• 1:03:35
  from the 80 to 120 at that point.
• 1:03:37
  So it's just wild to feel.
• 1:03:39
  So this is a great opportunity for me to tell a little story as
• 1:03:43
  we transition to my next thought.
• 1:03:44
  Andrew mentioned earlier about his excursion in an a CR with the
• 1:03:48
  gentleman from our organization that owns a 2017, supposedly the story is
• 1:03:52
  he bought one of the last ones, you know, it's got his name on it and
• 1:03:55
  all this fun stuff and beautiful car.
• 1:03:57
  It's a black with green stripes.
• 1:03:59
  And I've had the privilege of riding in it several times.
• 1:04:01
  And the first time I got to ride in, it was at Watkins Glen.
• 1:04:04
  You know, we were just there not long ago.
• 1:04:06
  Uh, yep.
• 1:04:07
  You and I together.
• 1:04:08
  And so it reminded me of that story.
• 1:04:10
  And so, you know, every opportunity I can get to ride in a different
• 1:04:13
  car, especially as a coach, I will obviously take it because I wanna
• 1:04:16
  learn about the car and, you know, see how people are driving and all that.
• 1:04:19
  So I, I've ridden with this gentleman many, many times.
• 1:04:22
  He's gotten some private coaching.
• 1:04:23
  Now he is come a long way on his journey to, you know, where he is.
• 1:04:26
  And now he has his viper.
• 1:04:27
  We get out there.
• 1:04:28
  He, he already had it.
• 1:04:30
  Everything uncoupled, we'll call it that, right?
• 1:04:32
  So full down force, ready to go.
• 1:04:34
  And I'm looking at this thing, hey, it's on street tires, whatever.
• 1:04:36
  We pull out of pit lane, which is really long at the Glen.
• 1:04:39
  And he's like, Hey man, let tell you right away, I gotta let this car
• 1:04:42
  warm up before we can really go fast.
• 1:04:44
  And I'm like, we're already like hauling ass, okay.
• 1:04:48
  And then I'm like, I'm like, cool, alright.
• 1:04:50
  It's all good, you know?
• 1:04:51
  And I've had an, I've had an experience with this car throughout
• 1:04:54
  the weekend and I'm with, at this time, I'm there with my M three race
• 1:04:58
  car, the closing rate of the Viper.
• 1:05:00
  You'd look in your rear view mirror, there's nobody there.
• 1:05:01
  And two seconds later he was brushing his teeth in your rear view mirror.
• 1:05:04
  You're like, he was teleported there, but you know, which was his closing speed.
• 1:05:08
  So now I'm in the car and he's like, all right, we gotta let it warm up.
• 1:05:11
  You know, this kind of thing.
• 1:05:12
  We're still, we're booking and I'm like, wow, this thing is a rocket ship.
• 1:05:16
  So we come around the second.
• 1:05:17
  Full lap.
• 1:05:18
  And he is like, all right, we're gonna, we're gonna open it up now.
• 1:05:20
  I'm like, we're gonna open it up.
• 1:05:22
  So we get from, from turn two to the bus stop.
• 1:05:26
  I mean, we're in a buck and a half in fourth gear in like no time.
• 1:05:29
  And he goes, by the way, this is over the chatterbox.
• 1:05:31
  He's like, I've been told I need to maintain 150 mile an hour maximum.
• 1:05:36
  So he'd hit 150 and then he would just lift his foot, right?
• 1:05:38
  Because his closing rate was so big compared to everybody else.
• 1:05:42
  And I'm like, dude, I'm not understanding, I mean, we're, we're hauling butt.
• 1:05:45
  He goes, you're gonna understand in a second we go into the bus stop and he b
• 1:05:49
  lifts his foot and he doesn't even break.
• 1:05:52
  And the car just basically flies in there like, now at like a buck
• 1:05:56
  20 or whatever, we're gonna die.
• 1:05:59
  Right?
• 1:05:59
  I'm like, there is no way we're making it out the other side because
• 1:06:03
  he's coming in like, I'm in a, in a Honda Civic, like full out, right?
• 1:06:07
  And I'm like, bro.
• 1:06:08
  And he's like, just hang on.
• 1:06:10
  And he, he just quickly jabs the wheel and then gets back on
• 1:06:13
  the throttle and the car just.
• 1:06:15
  Absorbs itself into the asphalt.
• 1:06:17
  And I'm like, you gotta be kidding me.
• 1:06:20
  And I start laughing, right?
• 1:06:21
  And he's just like, he's like giggling a little bit as he's driving.
• 1:06:24
  And then he finally had to hit the brakes and turn six, right?
• 1:06:27
  Because he's like, oh, I can't go through here this fast.
• 1:06:29
  So he gets on the brakes and it's like freaking anti-gravity.
• 1:06:32
  And I'm like, holy cow.
• 1:06:34
  And then back on the throttle and away we go.
• 1:06:36
  And we are just like reeling in cars, like left and right at every
• 1:06:39
  lap faster and faster and faster.
• 1:06:42
  I've never been in a car that could get around the glen in
• 1:06:44
  sub two minutes, you know?
• 1:06:46
  And, and not even with the professional driver behind the wheel.
• 1:06:49
  I mean, that's how good this a CR was.
• 1:06:51
  It was a mind blowingly fast.
• 1:06:53
  And I walked away from the car and he's like, so what do you think?
• 1:06:56
  I look around the paddock.
• 1:06:57
  Y'all, you changed my, depends real quick.
• 1:06:59
  Yeah.
• 1:07:00
  After that, but I'm like.
• 1:07:01
  Y'all can keep all of this stuff, all of, because the Viper is like king.
• 1:07:07
  And it's one of those things that I don't think even me telling the story,
• 1:07:10
  people will believe until you experience.
• 1:07:12
  So what I'm trying to tell you is if you get a chance to ride
• 1:07:15
  in a late Gen Viper, do it.
• 1:07:17
  Do not hesitate to do it.
• 1:07:19
  'cause it's amazing if you trust the driver.
• 1:07:21
  Yes, that's a hundred percent true.
• 1:07:23
  I gotta put that in perspective of Motorsport a little bit.
• 1:07:25
  The Viper came on the scene, best nineties car built in the
• 1:07:28
  eighties to compete against what?
• 1:07:32
  So if we look at that time period, you're looking at 9 64 dx.
• 1:07:36
  Oh wait.
• 1:07:36
  Well, no, you still had, yeah, not back then.
• 1:07:38
  You're right, you're right, you're right, you're right.
• 1:07:39
  C4, Corvette and the ZR one didn't come out until 1995, and that's
• 1:07:43
  when the Gen two vipers were starting to come on the scene.
• 1:07:46
  You had the 9 64 from Porsche, you had a couple Ferrari that weren't anything
• 1:07:51
  to write home about, and maybe a couple other oddball things like, oh yeah, the
• 1:07:55
  Jaguar XG two 20, you know, random stuff like that, that was in that hype, what
• 1:07:59
  we would consider hypercar genre now.
• 1:08:02
  So the Viper didn't really have any competition until later.
• 1:08:05
  Corvette steps in and UPS their game big time, especially with
• 1:08:10
  the C five and C six R. So there's been a huge battle over the years.
• 1:08:14
  Huge rivalry between Dodge and Chevy when it came to that world.
• 1:08:21
  I don't know that anybody else really appreciated it as much
• 1:08:24
  as some of the rest of us did.
• 1:08:25
  'cause the Porsche guy's like, ah, whatever.
• 1:08:26
  We we're just gonna build a faster nine 11 and move the engine
• 1:08:29
  closer to the driver every year.
• 1:08:31
  It'll be perfect.
• 1:08:32
  Don't worry about it.
• 1:08:32
  I wonder, you know, as fans of the Viper, how did we feel about
• 1:08:36
  the rivalry and did the Corvette finally beat the Viper in the end?
• 1:08:40
  I mean, let's discount the mid-engine Corvette for a minute and let's maybe
• 1:08:44
  compare the C six and C seven to the A CR.
• 1:08:46
  I don't know.
• 1:08:47
  I've been in all of those cars.
• 1:08:49
  And to this day, I know I'm a little bit biased, but those ACR are another
• 1:08:53
  animal, like you're saying, ungodly, an average driver can get behind
• 1:08:57
  the wheel of one of those things and kill it out a track the way the
• 1:09:00
  downforce and everything else feels.
• 1:09:02
  It's just so hard to compete against.
• 1:09:04
  And with all the track records that broke, and I know the Corvette
• 1:09:06
  beats some of them, but it's just a whole nother animal in comparison.
• 1:09:10
  Plus, Corvettes do what?
• 1:09:11
  30,000 cars a year.
• 1:09:12
  If that's how many vipers are on the road?
• 1:09:14
  They did 32,000 from 92 to 17.
• 1:09:16
  So like it's just a whole different animal as far as rarity goes,
• 1:09:20
  which then gives them that allure.
• 1:09:22
  So I had a C six grand sport.
• 1:09:23
  First car I took to the track, which pretty comparable to this.
• 1:09:26
  I mean, it didn't make the same power, but it was very analog.
• 1:09:29
  It didn't have as many driver controls.
• 1:09:31
  I had a C seven Z 51, which that thing drove for you.
• 1:09:35
  It was too easy to drive and this requires attention.
• 1:09:38
  So did the C six, but I, I didn't have that.
• 1:09:40
  I've never owned a ZI know the Zs on paper will beat them with everything except for
• 1:09:45
  maybe road holding and a hundred to zero.
• 1:09:48
  Like you said, they, they make the same amount.
• 1:09:50
  For a year of Corvettes that they've made total of the
• 1:09:53
  vipers, which was another reason.
• 1:09:55
  I mean, I've always wanted one of these same thing poster on the wall when I
• 1:09:58
  was in high school, and I've always, you know, always need have, and I don't
• 1:10:02
  care if they're a little bit faster.
• 1:10:03
  You know, the exclusivity, I guess is a, is a draw.
• 1:10:06
  And also the V 10, I mean, you don't get that in a lot of domestic cards.
• 1:10:10
  There isn't many that aren't trucks that have V tens to
• 1:10:13
  put this kind of power down.
• 1:10:14
  We're gonna talk about the truck.
• 1:10:16
  I promised we wouldn't, I hinted to it earlier.
• 1:10:18
  I wanna close out this thought about the Viper itself.
• 1:10:21
  We joke about this on the drive through and Brad's brought up several times.
• 1:10:24
  Do you know there are still new vipers that are unsold at Chrysler
• 1:10:28
  dealerships throughout the United States?
• 1:10:30
  You can buy a brand new 2017 a CR off the dealer lot today.
• 1:10:34
  God knows what the markup is, how much.
• 1:10:36
  They're still out there.
• 1:10:37
  They're a lot.
• 1:10:38
  What I'm getting at is, you know, the Viper was Sunset now five, six years ago.
• 1:10:43
  At this point we're closing in on, right.
• 1:10:46
  If you think about, you know, they announced that they were closing
• 1:10:48
  out the production run in 16 to say, Hey, we're gonna have a few
• 1:10:51
  seventeens and then that's gonna be it.
• 1:10:52
  We're done and we're Vipers.
• 1:10:54
  End of story.
• 1:10:55
  Get it now while sales are hot.
• 1:10:56
  Then Fiat sort of hinted there's gonna be a resurgence of the Viper.
• 1:11:01
  They talked about a V eight powered Viper, and I'm like, oh, well
• 1:11:03
  they're borrowing a Ferrari mode.
• 1:11:04
  It is gonna be some Maserati.
• 1:11:06
  Concoction that they're gonna come up with.
• 1:11:08
  It'll probably look awesome.
• 1:11:10
  But you know, that never happened either.
• 1:11:12
  And now Chrysler's been absorbed into Stellantis, right?
• 1:11:16
  The Borg, right?
• 1:11:17
  They are the fourth largest auto manufacturer on the planet
• 1:11:21
  now, but we still don't know what's happening over there.
• 1:11:26
  Right?
• 1:11:26
  They've talked recently about Sunset setting the Hemi because
• 1:11:29
  of the, the evolution, right?
• 1:11:30
  The EV revolution.
• 1:11:31
  They've talked about, hey, this is, it party's over for the Challenger
• 1:11:35
  and the charger as we know them today.
• 1:11:37
  But it still brings up the question, what about the Viper?
• 1:11:39
  Everybody seems to be building a supercar right now, whether it's
• 1:11:44
  an EV or otherwise, I think it's time to reintroduce Hellcat engine.
• 1:11:48
  They're gonna put it in there.
• 1:11:49
  They put it in the minivan, they're gonna put it in a bike.
• 1:11:51
  There you go.
• 1:11:52
  Vice worth the Hellcat engine.
• 1:11:53
  I mean, I hope they don't, but one of my favorite memes that I've definitely
• 1:11:57
  shared with Eric and the guys is like all the other car brands, you
• 1:12:01
  know, they're like, oh, how do we make our cars more fuel efficient?
• 1:12:04
  And then it's a Dodge Dealers do a line of Coke strippers as, and uh,
• 1:12:09
  let's throw a Hellcat in a minivan.
• 1:12:11
  Yeah, it's like the Wolf of Wall Street.
• 1:12:16
  When it comes to like the future of it, I don't know if they would be able to
• 1:12:19
  bring back a All Electric Viper and be able to call it a viper and like, I don't
• 1:12:25
  know if the diehards would, would buy it if you put it under the Viper name.
• 1:12:28
  Like if they brought a supercar back and made it look like a Viper, but
• 1:12:31
  named it something else, I think it would be a lot more accepted.
• 1:12:33
  The Viper, at the end of the day, they wanted to make it raw or it needed to
• 1:12:37
  be a manual, it needed to have the B 10.
• 1:12:40
  And those were its needs.
• 1:12:41
  And that was why they built them the way they built them.
• 1:12:43
  So if they came out with something like an all electric Viper or
• 1:12:47
  something along those lines, you know, I'd worry that it would come
• 1:12:49
  out looking like the electric Mustang.
• 1:12:51
  Like that's not a, to me it would, it would dilute the brand name too, or the,
• 1:12:55
  you know, the model name in some way.
• 1:12:57
  But, and this is something we bring up often, which is important, which
• 1:13:00
  is also why we don't refer to the Mach e as the Mustang Mach e because
• 1:13:06
  they're, it's a Ford escape, but, we'll, we'll leave that where it is.
• 1:13:08
  Yes.
• 1:13:08
  But the, the, the name, the name Viper, just like Cobra or even nine 11 and other
• 1:13:15
  things, if you put that on something else, it just changes the whole dynamic.
• 1:13:19
  So I guess you just have to sunset it.
• 1:13:21
  And to your point, I often wondered, yes, I get the Purs side of the Viper,
• 1:13:26
  but would the Viper have been that much better with some sort of double clutch
• 1:13:30
  PDK system, you know, maybe borrowed from Mercedes or developed by Porsche or
• 1:13:34
  something like that to really squeeze out Corvette and, and some of these other,
• 1:13:38
  you know, supercars that are still around, they probably would've sold more vipers.
• 1:13:41
  It pains me to say it, if they made 'em an automatic, if you could
• 1:13:44
  put your golf clubs in the back and make it an automatic, they
• 1:13:46
  probably would've sold two sets.
• 1:13:48
  Of course.
• 1:13:49
  Yeah.
• 1:13:49
  Two sets of golf as is the Corvette standard.
• 1:13:51
  Yes.
• 1:13:51
  Two sets of golf clubs.
• 1:13:52
  And that's why like, I hate to say it, but that's why in my
• 1:13:55
  opinion, the Corvette sell more.
• 1:13:57
  'cause it's not like they're easier to work on.
• 1:13:58
  Where do you put the golf clubs in the C eight?
• 1:14:00
  I just wanna bring that up real quick.
• 1:14:02
  Front trunk, back trunk.
• 1:14:04
  Actually, I know they said they could do two, right?
• 1:14:06
  That was, that was their whole thing.
• 1:14:07
  I don't know why that's always a selling point, but it can fit too.
• 1:14:11
  That was rhetoric that rhetorically.
• 1:14:13
  I just wanna point that you put one in the passenger seat.
• 1:14:17
  One of the passenger seat next to you with the roof off and then one the back.
• 1:14:20
  Oh, there we go.
• 1:14:21
  There we go.
• 1:14:21
  Yeah, backdrop.
• 1:14:22
  I worry that if they did bring something back, I don't know if
• 1:14:25
  they would name it the Viper.
• 1:14:26
  There was, you know, there's always rumors and there's always rumors from
• 1:14:29
  the higher ups in Chrysler and everything else that come to some of the events.
• 1:14:32
  It's like, oh, like, well, if you could build a viper, like what would
• 1:14:36
  you guys be willing to give up?
• 1:14:37
  Would it be the B 10?
• 1:14:38
  Would it be the stick?
• 1:14:39
  Would it be rear wheel drive?
• 1:14:40
  Would it be mid engine?
• 1:14:42
  You know, what are those things to give up?
• 1:14:43
  And that's what gives us some hope that they would bring back something with how
• 1:14:47
  all the EV is going and everything else.
• 1:14:49
  I don't know if they'd be able to bring back a Viper and be able to sell it
• 1:14:53
  underneath the Viper brand name and have the support and dedication that
• 1:14:56
  the current owners have for the car.
• 1:14:58
  And we saw hints of that were beyond the grapevine rumors.
• 1:15:01
  There was a gentleman that had a bespoke Ferrari built that
• 1:15:05
  was very viper like in its look.
• 1:15:07
  We actually talked about it on the drive through episodes
• 1:15:09
  earlier in, I think season one.
• 1:15:12
  It was that we brought that up and we thought that was really interesting.
• 1:15:14
  We're like, wait, is this foreshadowing by way?
• 1:15:17
  Of Ferrari, you know, part of now the parent company, stellantis owns
• 1:15:21
  all of this stuff, which has also jogged my thoughts to say, this is the
• 1:15:25
  opportunity for Alpha Romeo to make a comeback with a viper like vehicle.
• 1:15:31
  Let's not call it a viper, but that would be their opportunity to introduce a
• 1:15:34
  hyper sports car or something like that.
• 1:15:37
  You know, along these lines, it would make sense.
• 1:15:38
  There's been rumors there too, that they wanna bring back the GTV.
• 1:15:42
  What's that gonna look like?
• 1:15:43
  What's that gonna be?
• 1:15:45
  You know, that's traditionally been a two-door sports car,
• 1:15:47
  you know, stuff like that.
• 1:15:48
  So maybe there's a chance, but I wonder the timing is right.
• 1:15:53
  Maybe not the formula to your point, right?
• 1:15:55
  Yeah.
• 1:15:56
  It's not a viper as we know it.
• 1:15:57
  And I think once like supercars and stuff do start coming out, I think they'll be
• 1:16:01
  able to build something along those lines.
• 1:16:03
  But it's gonna be pretty hard, at least at first to bring the comradery
• 1:16:07
  back into having an electric car.
• 1:16:09
  'cause most of these guys are like.
• 1:16:10
  I want all gas all the time.
• 1:16:12
  Like, I don't want an electric car.
• 1:16:13
  They don't make noise.
• 1:16:14
  They, you know, it's the diehard fans of when you buy a Viper, you're buying
• 1:16:17
  it because it's this raw machine, and now you're gonna go out and buy an
• 1:16:21
  electric car that, yeah, it's fast, but you're, you're losing some of
• 1:16:24
  that, so that might be hard to sell.
• 1:16:26
  Yeah.
• 1:16:26
  And when everybody's grocery getter can do zero to 60 in sub three seconds, I
• 1:16:30
  mean, what do you need a supercar for?
• 1:16:31
  Right.
• 1:16:32
  So it comes down to styling at that point.
• 1:16:33
  It comes down to amenities, interior.
• 1:16:35
  But to your point, the sound, the, one of the things about the Viper, even compared
• 1:16:39
  to an R eight or a Lamborghini mm-hmm.
• 1:16:41
  Which basically leverage the same V 10, the Viper has a distinct sound.
• 1:16:46
  I, I bring it back to those old days of the screaming Audi quatros.
• 1:16:49
  'cause it sounds more like an Audi.
• 1:16:51
  Than it does, you know, a V 10 Lamborghini or anything like that.
• 1:16:55
  So that's part of that experience.
• 1:16:57
  Is that sound, I mean, obviously you both can attest to that.
• 1:17:00
  It's, it's unique and it's, it's absolutely amazing.
• 1:17:03
  So two more pieces of Viper, let's say Lore or part of the
• 1:17:07
  Viper culture, we hinted at it several times, is the Viper truck.
• 1:17:11
  So Mike, do you end up working on those two?
• 1:17:13
  What's the deal with the Viper truck?
• 1:17:15
  So they're actually pretty cool.
• 1:17:16
  I've had a couple at my shop here and there.
• 1:17:18
  It is actually the same motor that's in Andrew's car behind you.
• 1:17:21
  And the two doors were stick, the four doors were automatic.
• 1:17:24
  They're pretty cool trucks.
• 1:17:26
  It's badass to say, yeah, I've got a Viper motor in my truck, and it'll,
• 1:17:30
  you know, roast the tires 'cause there's no weight in the rear.
• 1:17:32
  So that aspect of things is cool.
• 1:17:34
  I actually work with a guy not too far from me that specializes in
• 1:17:37
  the Viper, in the Viper trucks.
• 1:17:39
  He specializes in.
• 1:17:40
  Those trucks.
• 1:17:41
  So usually we work together and I send him some stuff that way if I have to work
• 1:17:44
  on the Piper trucks, but he calls me for any of the performance stuff sometimes.
• 1:17:48
  So it's one of those things where they're sweet.
• 1:17:51
  I would definitely rock one to drive it around.
• 1:17:53
  I mean, listen, trucks always get terrible gas mileage, so why
• 1:17:56
  not drive around with a big V 10?
• 1:17:58
  Like that's pretty badass.
• 1:17:59
  But you know, I mean, it competes against things like that.
• 1:18:01
  SVT Lightning and let's build these low, low rider trucks essentially
• 1:18:06
  that can go fast instead of.
• 1:18:07
  Now everything jumps specs wise, you know, same motor power plane as that.
• 1:18:11
  Gen three Viper that Andrew has.
• 1:18:13
  They built those in very low numbers.
• 1:18:15
  Right.
• 1:18:15
  Only for like maybe a year or two.
• 1:18:16
  I believe it was oh five and oh six.
• 1:18:20
  There may have been 2004.
• 1:18:22
  I'm not very well versed as far as the Viper truck aspect of things Go.
• 1:18:26
  It's not, it's a cool piece of nostalgia, right?
• 1:18:28
  Yeah.
• 1:18:28
  And if you think about it, the marketing campaign was brilliant because they
• 1:18:31
  literally sold it as the Viper truck.
• 1:18:33
  Yeah.
• 1:18:33
  And when it debuted, there was a viper on a trailer being
• 1:18:36
  pulled by the Viper pickup.
• 1:18:38
  And I just thought that's the ultimate.
• 1:18:39
  That's, that's amazing.
• 1:18:40
  I mean, that's pretty cool, especially color matching blue
• 1:18:42
  with the white stripes, you know, that classic iconic Viper look.
• 1:18:46
  Although for me it's still the three spoke wheels and the red Targa, but
• 1:18:49
  you know, we'll leave that where it is.
• 1:18:51
  But that actually leads me into probably one of the most brilliant,
• 1:18:55
  if not conceived by Chrysler, but in partnership ad campaigns ever, which was
• 1:19:01
  the probably long forgotten by a lot of our audience, if they even saw it in the
• 1:19:06
  first place, which is NBC's show called.
• 1:19:10
  Viper, which debuted in the nineties and was basically a redo of night rider.
• 1:19:16
  It had the same storyline.
• 1:19:18
  I hate to say I binged all 80 episodes.
• 1:19:20
  I wrote an article about this, you can search for it on our website.
• 1:19:23
  I thought season one was amazing and that is actually really what cemented it for
• 1:19:27
  me, really fall in love with the Viper is bringing that kind of night rider forward.
• 1:19:32
  'cause I got to see the Viper on the regular, I got to hear it.
• 1:19:35
  It was on adventures, it was doing all that cool stuff.
• 1:19:37
  But what I thought was neat was there was a lot of foreshadowing in that and it
• 1:19:41
  was really smart on the part of Chrysler.
• 1:19:43
  And I pointed this out in the, in the article too.
• 1:19:45
  There were a lot of Chrysler prototypes in various episodes of the show
• 1:19:49
  parked along the side of the road, strategically placed in scenes of the
• 1:19:53
  show where, you know, they're flying with the Viper sideways and jump out
• 1:19:56
  and you're like, wait, what's that?
• 1:19:57
  Uh, Chrysler Espresso in the background there.
• 1:19:59
  You know, weird concept car that they were trying to make look futuristic
• 1:20:03
  because the show was supposed to be set some somewhere in the future.
• 1:20:06
  What I also thought was really unique.
• 1:20:08
  Is they also sneak peak, the GTS on that show.
• 1:20:12
  If you watch, I believe it was like season two-ish or so, there's a blue
• 1:20:16
  GTS coop during a traffic stop where there's a bunch of, you know, typical
• 1:20:20
  Chrysler intrepids blocking traffic, and this blue coop is just sitting there
• 1:20:25
  and then the Viper team shows up and it's just kind of in the background and
• 1:20:28
  you don't pay too much attention to it.
• 1:20:29
  You're like, because now we all realize, oh, the, the GTS is the thing, but back
• 1:20:33
  then you're like, holy crap, what is this?
• 1:20:35
  Right?
• 1:20:35
  Yeah.
• 1:20:35
  This is pretty cool.
• 1:20:36
  Part of our petrol heads of a certain age, right?
• 1:20:39
  And so we grew up with this show and then it disappeared and whatnot.
• 1:20:42
  So what's, what, what are your guys thoughts on it?
• 1:20:44
  So I, ironically enough, I've only seen actually a couple episodes.
• 1:20:47
  So to put this in perspective, I haven't seen, I haven't seen any.
• 1:20:52
  I was born the same year.
• 1:20:53
  The Viper came out all through the nineties.
• 1:20:55
  I was like a young kid.
• 1:20:56
  It's a treat, let me tell you.
• 1:20:58
  Alright, well I'm gonna have to, I'm gonna have to download it
• 1:21:00
  or find it on Hulu or some crap.
• 1:21:02
  Yeah, and watch all of them.
• 1:21:03
  You let me know what the best episode is.
• 1:21:05
  I'll watch the best episode.
• 1:21:06
  Season one is actually the best, and I'll be honest with you guys.
• 1:21:09
  The show was technically canceled at the end of season one, but
• 1:21:12
  then I don't know who petitioned.
• 1:21:14
  I gotta go back into my, my lore and trivia there.
• 1:21:17
  Seasons two and three were brought back with a different cast and then season.
• 1:21:21
  Four, they actually brought back the original actors and the
• 1:21:24
  original cast, and that's actually really good to kind of bookend it.
• 1:21:27
  If you watch Seasons One and season four, I have all of them,
• 1:21:30
  by the way, I can hook you guys up.
• 1:21:31
  Oh, perfect.
• 1:21:31
  Uh, to check it out.
• 1:21:32
  It's, it's absolutely amazing.
• 1:21:34
  But what was also cool about that, aside of all the things they had to do to build
• 1:21:38
  the defender, which was, you know, kit, let's call it that they spent so much
• 1:21:43
  money in the first season just on CGI, and this was cutting edge CGI to do this
• 1:21:48
  transformation of, you know, a stock viper into the defender on screen in real time.
• 1:21:53
  They said it, every time they did it, it cost 'em like, you know, a hundred grand
• 1:21:56
  or something to do the CGI was nuts.
• 1:21:59
  Later they made it really cheesy and you know, and then they eventually went back
• 1:22:02
  to that as computers got better and less expensive and all that kind of stuff.
• 1:22:05
  But even there, the idea of this viper coop.
• 1:22:09
  In the form of the defender, you kind of look at it and go, this
• 1:22:12
  is a thing, this is possible.
• 1:22:14
  And I wonder if that inspired Chrysler or if they already knew they were gonna go
• 1:22:19
  with the Cobra and then the Daytona Cobra.
• 1:22:21
  Right.
• 1:22:21
  And I'm, you know, who decided, or Leg just said, we're gonna do
• 1:22:25
  this if it worked for Pontiac, it's gotta work for Chrysler.
• 1:22:27
  It's gotta work Dodge.
• 1:22:28
  Right.
• 1:22:29
  So it's, it's kind of, it's, it's kind of cheesy and corny when you look
• 1:22:32
  back over it, but it's also somewhat awesome at the same time and some of
• 1:22:36
  the tech and the things that were there.
• 1:22:38
  And so I recommended, if you haven't seen it, but I'll hook you guys up.
• 1:22:41
  You gotta check it out.
• 1:22:41
  If nothing else, check out the article on our website to get
• 1:22:44
  a fast forward on all that.
• 1:22:46
  And I tell you what, I've mentioned it before, if I had to own one
• 1:22:48
  Hollywood car, it would be a defender.
• 1:22:51
  And by the way, Felix.
• 1:22:52
  And and reason being, they were built on actual vipers.
• 1:22:56
  So if there's low numbers out there, there's cars that are missing.
• 1:22:59
  They're Hollywood cars and they didn't use like some old Chevy Nova
• 1:23:03
  and make it sound like a viper.
• 1:23:05
  They were actually built on top of production vipers.
• 1:23:08
  So kind of cool.
• 1:23:08
  Very interesting.
• 1:23:09
  Kind of cool, you know, couple of those.
• 1:23:11
  32,000 are still out there in Hollywood, running around.
• 1:23:14
  So As the defender?
• 1:23:15
  As the defender, yeah.
• 1:23:17
  The defender's pretty, it's pretty badass.
• 1:23:18
  It's not an ugly car at all.
• 1:23:20
  It kind of looks like a, like a Gen four, gen five viper in some, you
• 1:23:23
  know, at certain angles, especially the taillights and the nose and stuff.
• 1:23:27
  Like with the thinner headlights, you know, I kind of see it was like
• 1:23:29
  foreshadowing of what the Viper could be in the future, right?
• 1:23:32
  Yeah.
• 1:23:33
  I mean, they definitely took some of the design cues, right?
• 1:23:35
  And the story there is the defender was actually developed by a famous company
• 1:23:41
  that does like movie cars, right?
• 1:23:43
  Would develop all these like specialty cars.
• 1:23:45
  And so it was their design built on top of that Viper chassis.
• 1:23:48
  So I thought that was really kind of cool that somebody had the ingenuity to
• 1:23:51
  say, well, we could take this, we could make it sleek and, you know, make it a
• 1:23:54
  coop and do all these kinds of things.
• 1:23:56
  And it's really neat.
• 1:23:57
  And it's still, like you mentioned, it still looks good today, although
• 1:24:00
  it's still had the three spoke wheels.
• 1:24:01
  Well, I guess you like them, huh?
• 1:24:03
  Uh, just a little bit.
• 1:24:04
  I mean, you know, I, I like them for what they are.
• 1:24:08
  That's the only thing on those cars that date them.
• 1:24:10
  It's very true, but it's very unique.
• 1:24:12
  It's a very vibrant thing.
• 1:24:13
  No other car had is a three spoke wheel that looks like that.
• 1:24:16
  You know, not even the smart cars with their three bolt wheels, but uh,
• 1:24:20
  I also hear they're really hard to get tires for 'cause it's a unique
• 1:24:23
  size, like a 16 by something bizarre.
• 1:24:26
  Yep.
• 1:24:26
  The early models, 3 35 or something like that.
• 1:24:29
  I, I saw in the forum when I was looking it up.
• 1:24:31
  Yeah, if you try to find them, you have to buy 'em used or they do group
• 1:24:35
  buys for the people who have those cars because now they don't manufacture 'em.
• 1:24:39
  So you gotta find used ones or old ones, which is wild.
• 1:24:42
  So before we wrap up and kind of close up, I have a pit stop like question to ask
• 1:24:46
  you, Mike, because we've geeked out here for, you know, over an hour about Vipers.
• 1:24:51
  We're all over the map and talking about really fun stuff and stories.
• 1:24:54
  But I gotta ask, is the Viper the sexiest car of all time, in your opinion?
• 1:24:58
  Ooh, I love the Viper, but lately pains me to say this and I'm sure plenty
• 1:25:03
  of people will be pissed about it.
• 1:25:04
  Lately I've been loving the new Porsche GT four.
• 1:25:07
  I still love the Viper.
• 1:25:08
  Like I think the a CR is like one of the sexiest cars like I've ever seen.
• 1:25:11
  Going back to those old GTS R like I think they're gorgeous cars.
• 1:25:14
  I think it's definitely up there, but I, the Porsches are starting to.
• 1:25:18
  Grow a spot in my heart because I fit in them and they look
• 1:25:21
  good and they're pretty quick.
• 1:25:22
  So since you get to work with Vipers on the regular and maybe you get a little
• 1:25:26
  desensitized to them and that's fine.
• 1:25:27
  1000%. Oh yeah.
• 1:25:29
  So, you know, if I asked you the question, if you had a three
• 1:25:32
  car garage and unlimited funds, what would you fill it with?
• 1:25:36
  Anything but a viper, what would it be?
• 1:25:38
  Ooh.
• 1:25:38
  Anything but a hyper.
• 1:25:40
  Yeah, you're, because you, you, you've already, you deal with them on the
• 1:25:42
  regular, so is that really fair?
• 1:25:44
  I, I guess you're right.
• 1:25:46
  I would get new GT four.
• 1:25:47
  I'd have to get like a truck, like I'd want like a Dodge dually and I would
• 1:25:51
  probably get some badass, I don't know, maybe like a newer M three to daily
• 1:25:55
  drive that is ugliest car of all time.
• 1:25:58
  I love this question.
• 1:25:59
  Ooh, ugliest car, PC cruiser with the wood grain.
• 1:26:03
  Oh man, that's up, that's a dodge spot too.
• 1:26:05
  I'm, I'm breaking bad.
• 1:26:06
  When they give, when they give Walt Jr. His, uh, he got the, uh,
• 1:26:10
  challenger and then, uh, they take it back and give him PC Cruiser.
• 1:26:14
  And, uh, in, in case you need another reason to hate Skyler most hateable woman
• 1:26:18
  on all tv, it's because she got on the TT cruiser that Aztec does something to me.
• 1:26:26
  Like, I don't know why, who thought that was a great design, but it's not for me.
• 1:26:31
  All right, so as we close out, one final thought, Mike, you mentioned
• 1:26:34
  several times, you know, as a now longtime member of the Viper Club and
• 1:26:38
  Viper Owners Association, et cetera.
• 1:26:40
  You know, one of their slogans is, come for the cars, but stay for the people.
• 1:26:44
  Do you wanna talk about the Viper Club and, and why Andrew should join,
• 1:26:48
  or why someone else should join?
• 1:26:50
  You know, what's it all about?
• 1:26:51
  So it really, it's all about, at the end of the day, the comradery, right?
• 1:26:54
  Like, I've got guys that have bought cars, bought Vipers, didn't get
• 1:26:57
  involved, and then ended up selling the cars a couple years later because.
• 1:27:00
  They weren't going out with other guys, they weren't doing stuff with the car.
• 1:27:03
  So they're like, well, I'm just gonna sell it.
• 1:27:05
  And then you have guys that join the clubs that get involved and go out to
• 1:27:08
  all these events and get to meet all these great people and just have a blast.
• 1:27:12
  You've got Viper guys that have millions of dollars and you've got
• 1:27:15
  guys that are blue collar, like just got their dream car, like love it.
• 1:27:20
  Don't have a ton of money, but love their car.
• 1:27:22
  You can all hang out in the same room together and you
• 1:27:24
  would never guess who was who.
• 1:27:26
  Everyone is humble.
• 1:27:27
  They're super modest.
• 1:27:28
  And I've gone, you know, I mean we've gone to track days and everything
• 1:27:31
  else and you meet guys in Ferrari clubs and Porsche clubs and some of
• 1:27:35
  them are hoity-toity in other clubs.
• 1:27:37
  Whereas like in the Viper Club, I've only met a handful, few of
• 1:27:40
  guys that were like ever really true like dickheads in the Viper Club.
• 1:27:44
  It's one of those things where you just meet so many great people and have such
• 1:27:47
  a good time at every event you go to.
• 1:27:50
  If you can get involved, get involved, and you know, I mean it's, at the
• 1:27:53
  end of the day, you make the most of whatever your situation is.
• 1:27:55
  If you want to get involved to come do stuff, you're gonna have a blast.
• 1:27:58
  There's no way you're not gonna have fun.
• 1:28:00
  And if you don't want to go do stuff, that's fine.
• 1:28:02
  I joke all the time and I'm.
• 1:28:03
  Pretty active in our area and I run a lot of events and it's so
• 1:28:07
  hard to get people to get off their couch, to have fun with us.
• 1:28:10
  Like if I'm not calling them during the week saying, Hey, like we're going
• 1:28:13
  to this event, it's a car cruises and we're gonna go do a tour yingling
• 1:28:16
  and like hang out and have lunch.
• 1:28:18
  They don't show up.
• 1:28:19
  It's like, guys come out, have a good time, and the guys that
• 1:28:21
  come, ah, it was so much fun.
• 1:28:23
  And then everyone online gets upset that they didn't go.
• 1:28:25
  You know, it's one of those things where if you can get
• 1:28:27
  involved, get involved and do it.
• 1:28:30
  Like I was just down at, in Miami last year for a National Viper event.
• 1:28:33
  There was like 200 vipers down in Miami.
• 1:28:36
  We did a track day, we did dinners, we did all sorts of like, did
• 1:28:40
  you drive your Viper down there?
• 1:28:41
  So no, I was, I played support vehicle and fixed cars going on my way down.
• 1:28:45
  Nice.
• 1:28:46
  But I did have the opportunity, a customer or a friend of mine was like.
• 1:28:50
  We went to the track day and I just was going to hang out and ride bitch.
• 1:28:53
  He's like, oh, you're driving today.
• 1:28:54
  Here's the keys and take it out on the track.
• 1:28:56
  Have fun.
• 1:28:57
  Oh, okay.
• 1:28:58
  Well good friend.
• 1:28:59
  I'm in.
• 1:29:00
  So like I've gotten to do some things like that and that's where the benefit
• 1:29:03
  of working on these and being trusted with them, you just meet so many good
• 1:29:07
  people that it just, it's crazy the amount of nice guys that you meet and
• 1:29:11
  the other like, not opportunities, but like there's just so many different cool
• 1:29:14
  things you get to go and see and do.
• 1:29:16
  And again, all through like the comradery of the car.
• 1:29:19
  I've been in other car clubs and stuff and none of them have ever
• 1:29:22
  been like anything I've experienced with the Viper Owners Association.
• 1:29:25
  I think to the point, if you can't.
• 1:29:27
  Afford a Viper and the Viper's still on your dream list as your dream car.
• 1:29:30
  You've been salivating after.
• 1:29:32
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:29:32
  There's some really excellent alternatives from the, the Hemi Chargers to, you know,
• 1:29:37
  the scat packs and all the challengers and all these different types of things
• 1:29:40
  that are on some of the other models.
• 1:29:42
  I mean, they're obviously making more horsepower than the Viper in some
• 1:29:45
  respects, especially the demon at a thousand Horsepower and all that
• 1:29:49
  craziness that's going on there.
• 1:29:50
  Dodge made some really cool stuff, and I think the Viper gave way to them being
• 1:29:56
  at the front end of modern muscle cars because when you look at the entries by
• 1:30:01
  Ford and even by Chevy, and, and let's discount the Corvette because it's, it's
• 1:30:05
  really achieved supercar status now.
• 1:30:08
  They can hang their hat on saying, we revolutionize the modern muscle car.
• 1:30:13
  And, and I gotta tip my hat to them.
• 1:30:15
  And I, and like I said, I think the Viper gave way to that.
• 1:30:17
  And I think what you're doing at Havoc by keeping these cars engaged,
• 1:30:22
  keeping their owners engaged, maintain these collections, working with these
• 1:30:25
  folks at the national level, going to these track events and, and bringing
• 1:30:29
  Viper enthusiasm, not just Motorsports enthusiasm, but about this particular
• 1:30:33
  brand to the surface is awesome.
• 1:30:34
  And that's why we get excited about it.
• 1:30:36
  And folks like Andrew and I can geek out with you for
• 1:30:39
  over an hour about these cars.
• 1:30:41
  So, you know, I gotta say in closing, Mike, I think this has been awesome.
• 1:30:45
  Maybe it was a little hard to follow for some folks, but if you're a
• 1:30:48
  Viper owner or maybe you're a viper.
• 1:30:50
  Fan.
• 1:30:50
  Hopefully you learn something from this episode, but I'll leave you with this.
• 1:30:55
  If you wanna learn more about Havoc performance, check out their
• 1:30:58
  website@www.havocperformance.com or follow them on Facebook and Instagram.
• 1:31:04
  Or email Mike directly at mike@havocperformance.com.
• 1:31:08
  'cause he's got all your answers, everything you wanna know,
• 1:31:11
  everything you wanna look for.
• 1:31:12
  Super personal guys, super knowledgeable.
• 1:31:14
  So we thank you for coming on the show.
• 1:31:16
  I think this has been absolutely fantastic.
• 1:31:18
  I really appreciate it.
• 1:31:19
  What I loved coming on and doing this, what's that?
• 1:31:21
  Instagram handle Havoc performance.
• 1:31:23
  Okay?
• 1:31:24
  It's all havoc.
• 1:31:25
  It's all havoc, performance.
• 1:31:26
  It's all havoc performance.
• 1:31:27
  But again, if anyone ever has any questions, and same thing with you
• 1:31:30
  guys, if you have any questions, but I'm definitely dragging your asses out
• 1:31:33
  for our Snakes on the Mountain event.
• 1:31:35
  Ooh.
• 1:31:35
  So make sure your car is ready.
• 1:31:38
  It's basically a private event.
• 1:31:39
  We do it usually at a guy's house that has a car collection,
• 1:31:42
  so you get to see that as well.
• 1:31:43
  But it's performance forward.
• 1:31:44
  So like for gts, cobras, Shelby stuff, Vipers will invite like track
• 1:31:49
  hawks and demons and stuff will come.
• 1:31:51
  And then it's also Ferrari.
• 1:31:53
  So it's a competition between the three.
• 1:31:54
  Last year I had almost 40 Viper show up.
• 1:31:57
  And where is, and where is this at?
• 1:31:59
  Is this at Pocono or where is this held?
• 1:32:01
  This is, uh, it's uh, about 20 minutes from my house.
• 1:32:03
  Depending on whose place we're doing it at this year, we're gonna do it over in
• 1:32:06
  like SA Valley, over near Lehigh College.
• 1:32:08
  So it's more of like a hill climb, mountain run type of deal.
• 1:32:12
  Think of it like private cars and coffee.
• 1:32:13
  Right.
• 1:32:13
  I gotcha, gotcha.
• 1:32:14
  Come up, like, hang out.
• 1:32:15
  We usually do a car cruise afterwards and lunch.
• 1:32:17
  You know, we show up at like nine o'clock, hang out till like 11, go do a
• 1:32:21
  car cruise for an hour, hour and a half.
• 1:32:23
  Stop and get lunch.
• 1:32:24
  Usually around one, two o'clock when the places are slow.
• 1:32:26
  And uh, then everyone either goes on their way or we go do something else.
• 1:32:30
  You guys, that sounds like a blast.
• 1:32:32
  Bye.
• 1:32:32
  All right boys, take it easy.
• 1:32:34
  Alright.
• 1:32:34
  Hey, it was fun.
• 1:32:35
  Hey, have a good night.
• 1:32:36
  Thanks again.
• 1:32:36
  See?
• 1:32:42
  That's right listeners, if you enjoyed this episode, be sure
• 1:32:45
  to check out our Patreon for a follow on pit stop mini episode.
• 1:32:51
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• 1:32:57
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• 1:33:03
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• 1:33:06
  check us out on www.gt motorsports.org.
• 1:33:10
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• 1:33:13
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• 1:33:17
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• 1:33:25
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• 1:33:27
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• 1:33:30
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• 1:33:33
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