Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / 8-year-old-girl DEATH BY TRAMPOLINE

Transcript

8-year-old-girl DEATH BY TRAMPOLINE · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Death by trampoline? Have you
0:14
Speaker 1: ever heard of that? Because I had not until I
0:19
Speaker 1: got to know about a little eight year old girl
0:22
Speaker 1: named Jalen. Well, I know every word to that side
1:00
Speaker 1: that's from Frozen Let It Go? And how many times
1:04
Speaker 1: have we ridden down the road to the highway with
1:06
Speaker 1: the windows down screaming out the lyrics of let it Go?
1:11
Speaker 1: You were just hearing little jail and singing let it Go.
1:18
Speaker 1: Sounds like with the windows down in the car. That
1:21
Speaker 1: will never happen again. This eight year old little girl
1:24
Speaker 1: is dead. Why I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime Story.
1:30
Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. Take a listen to
1:32
Speaker 1: our Dave mac at crime online dot com. On August
1:37
Speaker 1: twenty ninth, Odessa, Texas police officers respond to a medical
1:40
Speaker 1: call at one fifty pm at the home of forty
1:44
Speaker 1: four year old Daniel Schwartz and his wife, thirty four
1:47
Speaker 1: year old Ashley Schwartz. The schwartz Is tell officers that
1:50
Speaker 1: they are the guardians for eight year old Jalen. Jalen
1:53
Speaker 1: is the purpose of the call. Police are told that
1:56
Speaker 1: Jalen has been jumping on the trampoline for an extended
2:00
Speaker 1: period of time without taking any break, right up to
2:03
Speaker 1: the point where she appears to have suffered some type
2:06
Speaker 1: of seizure and is now unresponsive. With me an all
2:10
Speaker 1: star panel to break it down and put it back
2:12
Speaker 1: together again. Let me introduce you to them. First of all,
2:16
Speaker 1: former prosecutor now defense attorney in multiple jurisdictions across the US.
2:22
Speaker 1: Joining me out of the Atlanta jurisdiction right now, Daryl Cohen,
2:26
Speaker 1: Doctor Debbie Joffe Ellis, psychologist, adjunct professor, Columbia University at
2:32
Speaker 1: Debbie Joffe Ellis dot Com. Former police chief John's Creek,
2:37
Speaker 1: joining me. Chris Buyer's twenty five years on the force
2:41
Speaker 1: now private investigator and polygrapher at Chris Buyers Investigations and
2:45
Speaker 1: Polygraph dot Com. Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University. Author of
2:50
Speaker 1: Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, now the Star on
2:55
Speaker 1: a new hit, Poisonous Liaisons on the True Crime Network.
2:59
Speaker 1: Joe Is Scott Morgan, but first to the lead news
3:03
Speaker 1: anchor for w d BO Orlando, Joining me now, Ray Caputo. Ray,
3:09
Speaker 1: let me understand, I want to take this from A
3:12
Speaker 1: to Z. There's a nine one one call. Police arrive.
3:17
Speaker 1: They're in Odessa and it's about two o'clock in the afternoon.
3:22
Speaker 1: You know, that's hot. One fifty pm in Odessa to
3:27
Speaker 1: a man and his wife. They tell the officers a
3:33
Speaker 1: year old Jellen has had some kind of seizure jumping
3:37
Speaker 1: on the trampoline. What can you tell me about Odessa, Texas?
3:42
Speaker 1: What do we know about Odessa? Well, Nancy, like you said,
3:46
Speaker 1: it is hot in the summer. It's Western Texas. And
3:49
Speaker 1: you know, not only does it get hot, but then
3:51
Speaker 1: you know, above the average temperature, sometimes you get something
3:54
Speaker 1: called a heat index where it just feels hotter. So
3:57
Speaker 1: you know, wait, wait, wait, wait, what did you say
4:01
Speaker 1: about a heat index where it feels hotter? Because I
4:04
Speaker 1: know about, for instance, having lived in New York so long,
4:08
Speaker 1: it may be thirty six degrees outside, but with the
4:12
Speaker 1: wind chill factor, it feels like it's twenty six. I
4:17
Speaker 1: didn't realize that applied to heat as well. What are
4:21
Speaker 1: you talking about, Well, yeah, absolutely, Nancy. You know, we
4:23
Speaker 1: have something called the humidity, and it makes the temperature
4:26
Speaker 1: feel even warmer. But also it depends on what you're around.
4:29
Speaker 1: If you're you know, I always say that the hottest
4:31
Speaker 1: place because I'm in Florida. The hottest place to be
4:34
Speaker 1: is in a parking lot in the summertimes. If you're
4:36
Speaker 1: around things that radiate heat too, it just makes it hotter.
4:40
Speaker 1: So we're not always not just talking about the Texas
4:42
Speaker 1: heat here. We're talking about you know, it could be
4:46
Speaker 1: upwards of one hundred and ten and whoa, Yeah, you're
4:51
Speaker 1: just reminded me of when I cover the jd Area's
4:53
Speaker 1: trial out in Phoenix, Arizona. It was so hot in
4:59
Speaker 1: the afternoon, and I had the twins with me when
5:01
Speaker 1: I would get out of the courthouse. I once said
5:03
Speaker 1: only lizards could live there, and I've never lived that
5:05
Speaker 1: down it was so darn hot. I've been looking and
5:09
Speaker 1: researching into Odessa since I found out about jailing. As
5:13
Speaker 1: you said us in West Texas. I know downtown there
5:17
Speaker 1: is a jet ben rabbit eight foot tall statute of
5:21
Speaker 1: a jet rabbit. But more important than that, I know
5:25
Speaker 1: that there's about one hundred and twenty thousand people that
5:28
Speaker 1: lived there a little over that. So this is a
5:30
Speaker 1: small town that's even bigger than the community where I
5:34
Speaker 1: grew up. But it's still a small town and you
5:37
Speaker 1: don't get many eight year old girls dead when the
5:42
Speaker 1: police got there. Was she already dead or did they
5:46
Speaker 1: rush her to the hospital, Ray Kaputo, Nancy, she was.
5:49
Speaker 1: She was unresponsive. She was having seizures, which is what
5:52
Speaker 1: happens when you're outing. But she was unresponsive and then
5:56
Speaker 1: they rushed her to the hospital Birmingham, which wasn't too
5:59
Speaker 1: far away. But yeah, she wasn't not responsive having seizures.
6:04
Speaker 1: Hold on to you, Jessics got Morgan death investigator. So
6:08
Speaker 1: you can get so hot you go into seizures. Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely, Nancy.
6:13
Speaker 1: It actually affects the brain with this loss of water,
6:18
Speaker 1: and there's any number of other things that are going
6:22
Speaker 1: to happen. You're going to have vomiting stroke. Yeah, commonly,
6:28
Speaker 1: that's kind of the vernacular that's used with it. But yeah,
6:33
Speaker 1: it is a hypothermic death and our hyperthermic death where
6:39
Speaker 1: your your body is trying to regulate itself to maintain
6:43
Speaker 1: that ninety eight point six. It's not just about a fever.
6:46
Speaker 1: It's about the external influences that are going on here.
6:50
Speaker 1: And this is horrible. I'll tell you one thing about Odessa, Texas.
6:54
Speaker 1: Ain't no trees out there, that's for sure, So there's
6:56
Speaker 1: no place to hunt for shade. I mean, understand what
7:00
Speaker 1: happened to Jellen. Now, you know, one year before we
7:05
Speaker 1: had children, I gave David a trampoline for Christmas, and
7:10
Speaker 1: whenever I would fly home from New York, the first
7:12
Speaker 1: thing I would do, we'd go jump on the trampoline,
7:14
Speaker 1: or I would anyway, and you know at night sometimes
7:18
Speaker 1: we'd go out there and lay there and look up
7:19
Speaker 1: at the stars. Then we had to get the insurance
7:23
Speaker 1: renude and they said, you have a trampoline. Yeah, bye bye,
7:28
Speaker 1: So we had to get rid of the trampoline. It
7:30
Speaker 1: was only fast forward years later Joe Scott Morgan that
7:35
Speaker 1: after much begging from the twins and against my legal judgment,
7:40
Speaker 1: we got another trampoline and the twins jump on it
7:45
Speaker 1: a lot. So my question is, I don't understand exactly
7:51
Speaker 1: how that would factor into her going into seizures, the
7:54
Speaker 1: fact that she's jumped on a trampoline in the heat. How,
7:57
Speaker 1: I mean, how long would you have to jump in
8:00
Speaker 1: that heat before you would start having seizures? And why
8:04
Speaker 1: does your body go into seizures? What is a seizure exactly? Well,
8:08
Speaker 1: the seizure actually takes place in the brain itself. There's
8:12
Speaker 1: actually there's a control center within the brain, and once
8:16
Speaker 1: that begins to shut down as a result of we
8:18
Speaker 1: have a loss of water and also those basic elements
8:23
Speaker 1: that we need to survive, like electro lights. Those things
8:26
Speaker 1: actually control the electro lights themself actually control the rhythm
8:30
Speaker 1: of the heart. They control our synapses within our brain.
8:33
Speaker 1: So okay, it's just right there, right there, Joe Scott,
8:38
Speaker 1: how many times have I asked you to talk regular
8:40
Speaker 1: people talk? What's an electro light and what is the synapse? Well,
8:45
Speaker 1: the synaps are the little they're the little conductors for
8:48
Speaker 1: the electrical impulses in our brain that actually tell They take,
8:52
Speaker 1: they take the information and communicate it. They literally fire
8:56
Speaker 1: off electro lights that are contained many times within water,
9:01
Speaker 1: that kind of you know that flows through our body.
9:02
Speaker 1: How many times do we hear about remaining hydrated throughout all,
9:08
Speaker 1: you know, anything that we do day in and day out,
9:11
Speaker 1: and with the balance of the electrolytes in the body,
9:15
Speaker 1: this maintains this kind of perfect calm and our body
9:20
Speaker 1: at all times. As we begin to lose the water
9:24
Speaker 1: through the salts that are contained within the water and
9:28
Speaker 1: the electrolytes, conversely, our body gets out of whack and
9:32
Speaker 1: so you can't compensate for this without slowing down, cooling off,
9:37
Speaker 1: and taking on water. And this did not happen in
9:40
Speaker 1: this case. Clime stories with Nancy Grace, guys are talking
9:55
Speaker 1: about a little eight year old girl jealing shore dead
10:02
Speaker 1: in the heat in Odessa, Texas on her trampoline. Now,
10:07
Speaker 1: how did it happen? Didn't her body sent her signals,
10:11
Speaker 1: I'm thirsty, I'm hot, I've got to go in. Why
10:16
Speaker 1: didn't this little girl notice I'm hot, I need water,
10:19
Speaker 1: I got to get off the trampoline and go in
10:21
Speaker 1: the house. Take a listen to Tatum Gin at News
10:27
Speaker 1: West nine. Police found the girl dead after responding to
10:30
Speaker 1: a call at a home on Locust Avenue. Investigators say
10:34
Speaker 1: the girl was punished and not allowed to eat breakfast.
10:37
Speaker 1: They add that she was required to jump on a
10:39
Speaker 1: trampoline without stopping for an extended period of time, and
10:44
Speaker 1: it was also not allowed to drink any water because
10:46
Speaker 1: she wasn't jumping, and autopsy report says that their death
10:50
Speaker 1: as homicide. The little girl didn't come down off the
10:55
Speaker 1: trampoline for water or to quit jumping in the heat
10:59
Speaker 1: well over one hundred degrees because mommy and Daddy wouldn't
11:07
Speaker 1: let her listen to Dave Matt crime online. By the
11:12
Speaker 1: time Odessa, Texas police officers arrive at the home of
11:15
Speaker 1: Daniel and Ashley Schwartz, eight year old Jaylen is already dead.
11:19
Speaker 1: Officers are told that Jalen has been jumping on the
11:22
Speaker 1: trampoline without stopping. The investigation reveals that Jaylen was being punished.
11:27
Speaker 1: She was not allowed to eat breakfast, and she was
11:30
Speaker 1: required to jump on the trampoline without stopping. According to
11:33
Speaker 1: their police report, she had been jumping for an extended
11:37
Speaker 1: period of time. Digging deeper, police discover the little girl
11:41
Speaker 1: was not allowed to drink any water because she had
11:43
Speaker 1: to stop jumping on the trampoline to stop and drink water,
11:46
Speaker 1: and she was not allowed to stop jumping. These two people,
11:51
Speaker 1: Daniel Schwartz forty four Ashley Schwartz thirty four, need to
11:56
Speaker 1: burn and hell a little while before they start rotting
12:01
Speaker 1: in hell. Can you even imagine putting your child out
12:06
Speaker 1: in one hundred and ten degree heat, forcing them to jump,
12:10
Speaker 1: no breakfast, and as they turn redder and redder in
12:13
Speaker 1: the face and need water, you won't let them come down.
12:18
Speaker 1: Daryl coh A former prosecutor now defense attorney. You've handled
12:22
Speaker 1: a lot of cases, but I guarantee you I would
12:25
Speaker 1: take a bite out of these people's rear in and
12:29
Speaker 1: not let go until I had them in jail for life,
12:33
Speaker 1: behind bars without parole. Give me any possible defense, Nancy.
12:40
Speaker 1: You know I like to fight with you, and I
12:42
Speaker 1: normally disagree with you. But in this instance these people,
12:47
Speaker 1: the word despicable does not explain what their actions are.
12:51
Speaker 1: I will tell you what I would do as a prosecutor.
12:54
Speaker 1: I know what you do. I can see you right now,
12:57
Speaker 1: coming down the long hallway and Fulton County Courthouse Annex
13:01
Speaker 1: where all the new courtrooms are, with your tail dragon
13:06
Speaker 1: between your feet, coming right at me, trying to cut
13:09
Speaker 1: a deal. You know that's what you would do. I
13:12
Speaker 1: see it on your face by the end of the hallway.
13:15
Speaker 1: I know what you'd want, absolutely, because there is no defense,
13:19
Speaker 1: and any jury that has an opportunity to pass a
13:22
Speaker 1: judgment based upon the evidence will destroy these people. And
13:27
Speaker 1: I will tell you this. If they were to be incarcerated,
13:31
Speaker 1: and they will be, then the prison population will take
13:36
Speaker 1: care of olah blah. You always say that jailhouse justice
13:41
Speaker 1: really the only time to you. Chris Buyer saw a
13:45
Speaker 1: former chief of police John's Creek now private investigator Polygrapher.
13:49
Speaker 1: The only times I've seen jailhouse justice is when somebody
13:54
Speaker 1: killed Jeff Dahmer behind bars. I think that was in
13:57
Speaker 1: Wisconsin after he murdered an God only knows how many
14:01
Speaker 1: people he got killed behind bars. And then there was
14:04
Speaker 1: this priest that lesson all these little boys and guess
14:08
Speaker 1: who he met behind bars one of his victims he
14:11
Speaker 1: got killed. I don't really hear of that much jailhouse justice.
14:17
Speaker 1: Would you like to correct Daryl Cohen? Or am I
14:19
Speaker 1: taking you on too? Because I'm happy to do that,
14:21
Speaker 1: Chief Buyers happy Now I'll pick Darrel in a little
14:25
Speaker 1: bit on that. Yeah, no justice needs to happen here,
14:29
Speaker 1: but it doesn't need to depend on what happens behind bars.
14:32
Speaker 1: There's there's some serious justice that needs to be administered
14:35
Speaker 1: to these people because it's absolutely one of the most
14:38
Speaker 1: sickening things that I've ever heard. I can tell you
14:41
Speaker 1: the police officer responding to something like that, And everybody
14:45
Speaker 1: thinks that we're robots, but we're moms and dads and
14:48
Speaker 1: aunts and uncles. And in my twenty five years of
14:50
Speaker 1: law enforcement. The cases that stick out in my mind
14:53
Speaker 1: the most, the ones that I really remember, the ones
14:55
Speaker 1: involving children. So there's some serious justice that needs to
14:59
Speaker 1: be Still doubt in this, you know, he just says
15:02
Speaker 1: something really smart, Chief Buyers. I'd like to point out,
15:06
Speaker 1: it's not the first time you bombed me with a
15:09
Speaker 1: gem of wisdom. We shouldn't rely on inmates behind bars
15:15
Speaker 1: for jailhouse justice. Take a listen to Dave Matt crime
15:19
Speaker 1: online dot com. The Odessa Police Department investigation into the
15:22
Speaker 1: death of eight year old Jalen revealed that while the
15:25
Speaker 1: little girl was being forced to jump on the trampoline
15:27
Speaker 1: without stopping and without benefit of water, the temperature of
15:30
Speaker 1: the trampoline read to be approximately one hundred and ten
15:33
Speaker 1: degrees and the ground around the trampoline approximately one hundred
15:37
Speaker 1: and fifty degrees. This is according to the Odessa Police
15:39
Speaker 1: Department report of the event. According to AccuWeather dot com,
15:43
Speaker 1: the high temperature in Odessa in August twenty ninth was
15:46
Speaker 1: one hundred and three degrees. Daniel and Ashley Schwartz had
15:49
Speaker 1: been raising eight year old Jalen as well as her sister, Jade.
15:52
Speaker 1: Jade was removed from the home and placed in foster
15:55
Speaker 1: care after the death of Jalen. I found something out, well, actually,
15:59
Speaker 1: actually you found it out for me. Ashley Swartz, the mom,
16:04
Speaker 1: and for those of you listening, I'm using air quotees.
16:07
Speaker 1: The mom of Jellen is a step sister of Jellen's
16:11
Speaker 1: bio mom. So, for whatever reason, I know that Jellen,
16:15
Speaker 1: eight year old little Jellen, and her sister Jade are
16:18
Speaker 1: there in the home for a temporary period of time.
16:21
Speaker 1: For all I know, it's a week, it's a month,
16:23
Speaker 1: it's a year, I don't know. I just know they're
16:25
Speaker 1: in the step sister and her husband's home and they're
16:29
Speaker 1: the ones punishing her. Did you hear that, Joe Scott.
16:33
Speaker 1: I'm gonna circle back to you about it being one
16:35
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty degrees around the trampoline. But let me
16:40
Speaker 1: go to doctor Debbie Joffey ellis psychologist professor at Columbia University.
16:47
Speaker 1: Doctor Debbie, what is a sadist. Well, it's a person
16:53
Speaker 1: who is disassociated from basic reality and lacking a moral
17:01
Speaker 1: compass and often driven by a need to control and
17:08
Speaker 1: or has the inability to handle frustration, in patience, and
17:13
Speaker 1: anger in a healthy way. Didn't you leave out the
17:16
Speaker 1: part where they like to torture and hurt other people.
17:20
Speaker 1: Did I miss that? Or does she just say something
17:22
Speaker 1: about they don't know how to deal with their frustration
17:24
Speaker 1: in a healthy way. Will you please, doctor Debby, stop
17:29
Speaker 1: sugarcoating every time I ask you a question? What does
17:34
Speaker 1: they satis do for fun? Let me put it, let
17:37
Speaker 1: me rephrase your honor, what does a satus do for fun? Well,
17:43
Speaker 1: I'm not disagreeing that some people who act in sadistic
17:47
Speaker 1: ways do that, and s what does satists do? They
17:54
Speaker 1: act in ways that inflict suffering on others. They act
17:59
Speaker 1: with uther a t they act with brutality. And I'm
18:03
Speaker 1: not trying to sugar code anything, Nancy, but if we
18:08
Speaker 1: want to live with a just say sadist can't deal
18:13
Speaker 1: with frustration in a healthy way. That could be me
18:16
Speaker 1: kicking the trash can. The Oxford Language Dictionary defines sadist
18:23
Speaker 1: as a person who derives pleasure, sometimes sexual gratification, pleasure
18:31
Speaker 1: from inflicting pain or humiliation on others. Apparently, at Columbia University,
18:38
Speaker 1: where doctor Debbie Joffe LS is an adjunct professor, they
18:43
Speaker 1: say you're sadist is someone who can't express frustration in
18:47
Speaker 1: a healthy way BNK for me, not for the university. Please,
18:54
Speaker 1: that's okay, you're right. Let me rephrase. And doctor Debbie
18:57
Speaker 1: Joffe ellis Land. Yes, sadist is someone who can't deal
19:02
Speaker 1: with frustration in a healthy way. But from the little
19:05
Speaker 1: bit I know now, I'm just a JD. I'm not
19:08
Speaker 1: an MD. I'm not a psychologist. But sadism, A sadist
19:14
Speaker 1: inflicts pain and they enjoy it. They inflict pain on
19:20
Speaker 1: somebody else. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, we are talking
19:34
Speaker 1: about an eight year old little girl dead and according
19:38
Speaker 1: to me and other news outlooks, a sadistic couple kill
19:44
Speaker 1: an eight year old girl by making her jump on
19:47
Speaker 1: a trampoline during blistering hot heat. That's what the police say.
19:55
Speaker 1: Daniel Schwartz forty four, thirty four year old wife Ashley
19:58
Speaker 1: punished Jael a roasting August day, ground temperature one hundred
20:04
Speaker 1: and fifty degrees fahrenheit. And I am looking directly at
20:11
Speaker 1: a news report describing her last moments. It's amazing to me. Guys,
20:20
Speaker 1: listen to what we learn in the autopsy. This is
20:23
Speaker 1: Brett Barney Crime Online dot Com investigate every reporter. The
20:28
Speaker 1: autopsy performed on Jalen concludes the eight year old died
20:31
Speaker 1: from dehydration. The girl was forced to continuously jump on
20:34
Speaker 1: a trampoline as punishment by her guardians. Police affidavits include
20:38
Speaker 1: comments on how it was not uncommon for the family
20:40
Speaker 1: to use the trampoline as a form of punishment for misbehaving.
20:43
Speaker 1: The investigation reveals that Jalen was forced to jump without
20:46
Speaker 1: stopping for quote an extended period of time. As yet,
20:49
Speaker 1: we don't know how long she had been on the trampoline.
20:52
Speaker 1: Jalen was also not given water because she would have
20:54
Speaker 1: to stop jumping to drink it. The final autopsy report
20:57
Speaker 1: lists the manner of death is homicide and was of
21:00
Speaker 1: death to be dehydration. Doctor Debby Jaffie Ellis rematch round
21:08
Speaker 1: two right back in the ring, Doctor Debby, Yes, do
21:12
Speaker 1: you hear what Brett Barney just reported? They had done
21:15
Speaker 1: this before. This was a form of punishment. This is
21:19
Speaker 1: how they one of the ways that I know they
21:22
Speaker 1: punished this little girl. Like in your profession, Nancy, I
21:27
Speaker 1: don't come to any definite conclusion until unless I have
21:30
Speaker 1: solid evidence. Now I don't disagree with your definition of saddism.
21:35
Speaker 1: I absolutely do not. I also agree that these parents
21:39
Speaker 1: had better have just consequences, but I also want to
21:43
Speaker 1: say that it may have been that they got enjoyment
21:48
Speaker 1: or and this is different. It's not the same. An
21:51
Speaker 1: absolutistic dictator like and need to control coupled wiz an
21:57
Speaker 1: inability to handle frustration. So you're bad anability to handle frustration.
22:05
Speaker 1: You're back on it. She's dead, doctor Debby, the good
22:09
Speaker 1: little girl eight years old. Didn't you hear her singing,
22:13
Speaker 1: let it go from frozen? She's dead. That's never gonna
22:17
Speaker 1: happen again. And they had used this form of punishment before,
22:23
Speaker 1: forcing her to jump on the trampoline without ceasing to
22:27
Speaker 1: Ray Caputo, I didn't realize they had done this to
22:33
Speaker 1: her before. Yeah, and Nancy, it's completely astonishing. If you
22:37
Speaker 1: grow up in a colder climate, you know not to
22:39
Speaker 1: send your kids out without mittens and boots. These folks,
22:42
Speaker 1: they live in Texas. It goes without saying, you know,
22:45
Speaker 1: to not put your kid out in hot weather without
22:48
Speaker 1: taking proper precautions. I mean every year and here in
22:51
Speaker 1: Florida we do news stories when when suber starts for
22:54
Speaker 1: the kids because it's to keep them safe. So they
22:57
Speaker 1: did this before and if you understand how the other
23:00
Speaker 1: works in these hot climates, I mean, it's beyond negligent.
23:03
Speaker 1: These two are really in for it when they when
23:05
Speaker 1: they hit the courts, because everybody that lives in Texas knows,
23:09
Speaker 1: you know how how preposterous it would be to do
23:12
Speaker 1: what they did and not just once, but over and
23:14
Speaker 1: order and that, Daryl Cohen, let me help you with
23:20
Speaker 1: your defense. This is why they're going to argue they
23:24
Speaker 1: were just negligent. They didn't know that she could go
23:27
Speaker 1: into convulsions and die. But isn't it true, Daryl Cohen,
23:32
Speaker 1: that under the law in every state in the United States,
23:37
Speaker 1: the law says that it the law presumes you intend
23:44
Speaker 1: the natural consequences of your act. For instance, if I
23:48
Speaker 1: take a gun thirty eight loaded and pointed at Jackie
23:51
Speaker 1: right here in the studio, pull the trigger as she dies,
23:56
Speaker 1: I can't then say, oh, I was just trying to
23:58
Speaker 1: scare her. I didn't know she's gonna die. No, the
24:01
Speaker 1: law presumes. This is the black and white letter of
24:04
Speaker 1: the law. I'm just I'm making this up. I've heard
24:06
Speaker 1: judges charge this a hundred times. Read it verbatim to
24:10
Speaker 1: a jury. The law presumes you intend the natural consequence
24:14
Speaker 1: of your act. You put a child, you refuse food
24:17
Speaker 1: and water the night before breakfast water. Nothing forced her
24:22
Speaker 1: to jump at one fifty pm in there in Odessa, Texas,
24:27
Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty degrees around that Champlaine, What do
24:30
Speaker 1: you think is going to happen? The law presumes you
24:34
Speaker 1: intend her to have a stroke when they answer your right.
24:37
Speaker 1: The law does presume that. But as a defense lawyer,
24:40
Speaker 1: if they were my clients, the first thing I would
24:42
Speaker 1: do was have them psychologically example, oh dear lord. Thing
24:45
Speaker 1: I would do would have them pay as much pentence
24:49
Speaker 1: as POS think they will be. But if they're out
24:51
Speaker 1: on bond, they need to do community service, They need
24:55
Speaker 1: to get psychological counseling, and they need to be able
24:58
Speaker 1: to say, we were trying to punish, not kill. We
25:02
Speaker 1: realize now that we were wrong. We've lost this child forever.
25:07
Speaker 1: We were so wrong. I don't think it's going to work,
25:09
Speaker 1: but I don't see what else they can do other
25:11
Speaker 1: than get on their knees and beg second verse same
25:16
Speaker 1: as the first, because let me also remind me, I'm
25:19
Speaker 1: really embarrassed for you Darryl Cohen. Since you obviously are
25:22
Speaker 1: not embarrassed for yourself, let me remind you also that
25:27
Speaker 1: the law reason this is a black and white letter
25:30
Speaker 1: of the law. I don't even have to look it up.
25:31
Speaker 1: I've heard it so many times. I can tell you
25:33
Speaker 1: verbat him that one may immediately regret the deed, but
25:40
Speaker 1: that does not diminish the act. They can say I'm
25:45
Speaker 1: sorry all they want to, they can cry me a river,
25:48
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. I mean, let's get real, jose Scott,
25:51
Speaker 1: would this little girl go through with me? Joseph Scott Morgan,
25:54
Speaker 1: death investigator, author star Poisonous Liaisons. I could go on
25:59
Speaker 1: and on, but I want to get back to Jalen.
26:01
Speaker 1: What did this child? Eight years old? As I'm sitting here,
26:07
Speaker 1: friend girl of mine sent me a picture of Lucy
26:11
Speaker 1: and her her little child daughter together at Lego Land
26:15
Speaker 1: and they're doing all kind of crazy poses and she
26:20
Speaker 1: was about eight years old in that picture. I cannot
26:24
Speaker 1: imagine what my life would be without her or John David.
26:29
Speaker 1: I can't even imagine what reason I would even have
26:33
Speaker 1: to live anymore. What did this child go through? Joe Scott,
26:37
Speaker 1: Let's just lay it out for Daryl Cohen. Yeah, let
26:40
Speaker 1: me ask you a question real quick, Nancy, what color
26:42
Speaker 1: generally is the canvas that a trampoline is made out of? Black?
26:48
Speaker 1: Or dark green? Black? That's right, And we know that
26:50
Speaker 1: in science that black does not reflect like it does
26:54
Speaker 1: not reflect heat. What does it do? It absorbs it.
26:57
Speaker 1: So not only is this child dancing about in this
27:01
Speaker 1: horrific maccabbre set of circumstances on a surface that probably
27:08
Speaker 1: to her feels like hell itself, she's also surrounded almost
27:14
Speaker 1: like being in a convection of and where the heat
27:17
Speaker 1: is swirling around her little body. Remember what Dave said,
27:21
Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty degree ground temperature. That means what
27:24
Speaker 1: does heat do? Heat radiate? So it's actually coming up
27:27
Speaker 1: off the ground. And then she's surrounded by the ambient temperature,
27:31
Speaker 1: which is about one hundred and ten. You combine all
27:35
Speaker 1: of this and listen, there is no way, there is
27:39
Speaker 1: no way under the sun that you're going to convince
27:42
Speaker 1: me that they didn't know what they were doing. Listen,
27:45
Speaker 1: the night before the night before all of this happened,
27:49
Speaker 1: they hadn't even fed her. They had withheld nourishment from
27:52
Speaker 1: the child. And there's a distinct pattern that they had
27:55
Speaker 1: done this over and over. You know what this reminds
27:56
Speaker 1: me of. It reminds me of little Cooper. Harris was
28:00
Speaker 1: just thinking that his daddy weaponized heat. These people, these
28:06
Speaker 1: people weaponized heat against this child. Now, I don't know
28:10
Speaker 1: if they're saying this, maybe they are, but I know this.
28:13
Speaker 1: This little girl is dead. And they sat there. They
28:17
Speaker 1: did just say go outside and jump on the trampoline.
28:22
Speaker 1: They sat there and watched as she dwindled. You know
28:26
Speaker 1: that because of the dehydration, Nancy, that if this child
28:31
Speaker 1: wanted to physically demonstrate through tears that she's upset, that
28:37
Speaker 1: she's terrified, do you know, she wouldn't even be capable
28:39
Speaker 1: of crying. Do you know if that's one of the
28:41
Speaker 1: symptomologies with dehydration, particularly fatal dehydration, you can't even generate tears.
28:48
Speaker 1: Let that sink in just for a moment. Her skin
28:52
Speaker 1: loses elasticity, It literally shrivels up. In these moments. There
28:57
Speaker 1: are even some circumstances where the eye will begin to
29:01
Speaker 1: kind of retract into the sockets. It's a horrific, horrific
29:05
Speaker 1: way to die. Crime stories. With Nancy Grace, we were
29:20
Speaker 1: talking about the death of an eight year old little girl,
29:23
Speaker 1: jael In Schwartz, at the hands of Daniel and Ashley Schwartz.
29:28
Speaker 1: Take a listen to CBS seven News. Daniel and Ashley
29:35
Speaker 1: Schwartz were slapped with charges after Odessa police found an
29:38
Speaker 1: eight year old girl named Jalen dead in August. The
29:42
Speaker 1: victims family members tell us that Schwartzes were her guardians,
29:45
Speaker 1: not parents. A member of Jalen's family also gave us
29:49
Speaker 1: these photos of the young girl. Now, police investigation show
29:52
Speaker 1: Jalen had been deprived, not being allowed to eat breakfast
29:55
Speaker 1: or drink water, and was made to jump on a
29:57
Speaker 1: trampoline without stopping in over one her degree heat. She
30:01
Speaker 1: died of dehydration, according to Odessa Police. Our friends reporting
30:06
Speaker 1: at CBS this sadist couple now being charged in her death.
30:13
Speaker 1: This isn't the first time and child has been forced
30:15
Speaker 1: to exercise till death. Take a listen to a case
30:21
Speaker 1: I covered on HLN joining us Jonathan Hardison WBrC Jonathan,
30:28
Speaker 1: what happened, well, Nancy, Here's what investigators are telling This
30:30
Speaker 1: last Friday afternoon, about three o'clock, so nine year old
30:33
Speaker 1: Savannah Harden comes home from elementary school with her grandmother.
30:37
Speaker 1: She was fine when she left school. She gets back
30:39
Speaker 1: to her house and that's when investigators say the grandmother
30:42
Speaker 1: discovered that At some point, We're not sure exactly when
30:44
Speaker 1: this was. Maybe it was Friday, maybe it was the
30:46
Speaker 1: day before, the grandmother found out that Savannah had had
30:49
Speaker 1: a candy bar. Now she was not supposed to have chocolate,
30:51
Speaker 1: according to because Savannah had a bladder condition that they
30:54
Speaker 1: believed chocolate could exacerbate or make worse. So to punish her,
30:58
Speaker 1: according to investigators, Joyce Gerard began making her drainschild run
31:03
Speaker 1: around the house and this continued, they say, for about
31:06
Speaker 1: three hours until she collapsed into a seizure about six
31:09
Speaker 1: forty five. That's when her stepmom, twenty six year old
31:12
Speaker 1: Jessica Harden, who by the way, at the time was
31:15
Speaker 1: nine months pregnant, called ninety one one and says, my
31:18
Speaker 1: stepdaughters having a seizure. Medics come out to this scene
31:20
Speaker 1: in rule Edowa County, northeast of Birmingham, take her to
31:24
Speaker 1: a local hospital native side. She's in bad enough condition
31:26
Speaker 1: they're going to airlift her to Children's Hospital in Birmingham,
31:29
Speaker 1: and that is where she died. Because this little girl
31:33
Speaker 1: a candy bar. Sanda was just nine years old. Grandmother
31:39
Speaker 1: made her carry an armful of logs I guess for
31:44
Speaker 1: their fireplace and run around and around and around the
31:48
Speaker 1: house while she and stepmother, the evil stepmother sat on
31:53
Speaker 1: the porch and smoked cigarettes and watched Savannah run until
31:59
Speaker 1: she dies, goes into seizures. And I want you to
32:05
Speaker 1: hear what the grandmother told the bus driver. Take a listen.
32:10
Speaker 1: This takes evil stepmommy to a whole new level. Step
32:14
Speaker 1: Mommy and grandma force a nine year old little girl
32:16
Speaker 1: to run until she literally drops dead. Tonight, Grandma caught
32:21
Speaker 1: on tape telling the girls school bus driver she'll quote
32:25
Speaker 1: run the girl until she quote can't run no more.
32:29
Speaker 1: And this is all over a candy bar while these
32:35
Speaker 1: two grown women sit by lounging. Step Mommy actually on
32:41
Speaker 1: her iPhone and laptop while the girl dies. The nine
32:46
Speaker 1: year old girl crawling, finally crawling on all fours, bagging
32:54
Speaker 1: this she bits from hell to let her stop. The
33:00
Speaker 1: grandmother and the mother show no mercy. That was me
33:06
Speaker 1: on Achelnne covering the death of a little nine year
33:10
Speaker 1: old Savannah Harden. And you know now we see history
33:14
Speaker 1: repeating itself with Jellen, eight year old Jellen Shorts. The
33:20
Speaker 1: mom kicked back, tapping through her iPhone, probably on Facebook,
33:28
Speaker 1: laughing and joking as the little girl literally begs to stop.
33:35
Speaker 1: Now at a point she's crawling. Well, it doesn't end there.
33:43
Speaker 1: Take a listen to this. We are getting reports that
33:47
Speaker 1: your son has been found any of your basement, sir,
33:57
Speaker 1: mister Bothell, are you yeah, we are getting reports that
34:03
Speaker 1: your son has been found alive in your basement. What yes,
34:10
Speaker 1: that's what if? If you can hand me that wire
34:12
Speaker 1: very quickly. Yeah, we're getting that right now from from Yeah.
34:18
Speaker 1: How how could your son be alive in your basement? Uh?
34:32
Speaker 1: I have I have no idea. Now, this is just
34:42
Speaker 1: a report that we are hearing out of Detroit that
34:46
Speaker 1: we're trying to confirm. Everybody in New York. Please get
34:51
Speaker 1: on it. Let me know when we get Charlie Langton
34:54
Speaker 1: from wwj Uh, sir, did you check your basement? You
35:00
Speaker 1: know why the little boy disappeared, and he had been
35:02
Speaker 1: going down this corridor surreptitiously that would connect to other
35:08
Speaker 1: people's basements and storage areas because he was forced to exercise.
35:14
Speaker 1: Listen to my friends at my old TV home CNN listen.
35:21
Speaker 1: According to two court petitions filed in juvenile court, Charlie
35:24
Speaker 1: told investigators he was forced to get up at five
35:26
Speaker 1: am by his father and complete one hundred pushups, two
35:30
Speaker 1: hundred sit ups, twenty five arm curls, and thousands of
35:34
Speaker 1: revolutions on the elliptical trainer twice a day, seven days
35:38
Speaker 1: a week. The twelve year old said he had to
35:40
Speaker 1: complete the grueling routine in under an hour or he'd
35:44
Speaker 1: have to do it again. Charlie said sometimes he couldn't
35:47
Speaker 1: finish because he was in too much pain, pain allegedly
35:50
Speaker 1: caused by his father hitting him with a PVC pipe
35:54
Speaker 1: on his feet. Police found Charlie in his own basement
35:57
Speaker 1: two weeks ago, crouched down, barricaded behind a stack of
36:01
Speaker 1: boxes and a fifty five gallon barrel. A twelve year
36:04
Speaker 1: old seemed excited to see police, who say he was
36:07
Speaker 1: hungry out to the father of Chillens. Nancy Grace broke
36:11
Speaker 1: the news to his father, Charles Bothel, that his son
36:14
Speaker 1: was found live on air. We are getting reports that
36:19
Speaker 1: your son has been found alive in your basement. What
36:25
Speaker 1: that little child lived after being tortured and forced to
36:30
Speaker 1: exercise this year that starting his regiment at five am,
36:34
Speaker 1: hiding out for weeks on end the parents had reported
36:38
Speaker 1: him missing, when in fact he may have saved his
36:42
Speaker 1: own life by hiding out in this elabyrinth of connected
36:46
Speaker 1: basements and storage areas underground because he didn't want to
36:51
Speaker 1: do those brutal, tortuous workouts. Now we have gel and
36:57
Speaker 1: Schwartz dead. To Ray Caputo, lead US anchor W dbo Orlando,
37:04
Speaker 1: I understand the two have been charged with murder. Yes, Nancy,
37:10
Speaker 1: capital murder, and of course you Chris Buyers, former police
37:14
Speaker 1: chief John's Creek, we know what that means. Capital murder. Yeah, absolutely,
37:19
Speaker 1: facing death penalty of life in prison about role, which
37:23
Speaker 1: is exactly what they should be facing the death penalty. Man,
37:26
Speaker 1: you're not kidding. I'm not going to argue death penalty
37:30
Speaker 1: wrong or right, because that is up to a jury
37:33
Speaker 1: to decide. But if you're going to have the death penalty,
37:37
Speaker 1: think about it. Yep, this is exactly what it's for.
37:40
Speaker 1: Have you ever been to a scene I know you have, chief,
37:43
Speaker 1: where there has been so much child cruelty the child dies, Yes,
37:48
Speaker 1: I have. And again, like I said earlier, those are
37:51
Speaker 1: the cases that just stick with you. There's a couple
37:55
Speaker 1: of children's faces that I literally have nightmares about still
38:00
Speaker 1: and wake up scene because those scenes are just so
38:02
Speaker 1: absolutely brutal and heartbreaking. That is exactly what this case is.
38:08
Speaker 1: We wait as justice unfals Nancy Grace Crimes story, signing off,
38:14
Speaker 1: Get bye friend,