Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Twisted tale: Respected doctor suspected in murder of beautiful DJ wife
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- 0:05Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace now online at crime online
- 0:09Speaker 1: dot com and on Sirius x Simo. A beloved radio
- 0:15Speaker 1: host and alleged drug ring, a pagan tercycle gang, and
- 0:21Speaker 1: a murder for higher I feel like I'm living like
- 0:27Speaker 1: the worst teen movie that you can't even make up
- 0:30Speaker 1: these details and someone would believe that, and this is
- 0:33Speaker 1: my life. He has a weapon, dropped the gun. Dropped
- 0:36Speaker 1: the gun. Hey dropped the gun. Dropped the gun, Sir.
- 0:43Speaker 1: It's so surreal because I've been waiting for this for
- 0:46Speaker 1: five years. She's young, she's beautiful, she has a gorgeous daughter,
- 0:55Speaker 1: a happy family of an incredible home. It looks like
- 0:59Speaker 1: it's out of a mac zine. And just to top
- 1:02Speaker 1: it all off, she's one of the most famous radio
- 1:06Speaker 1: DJs in a top ten city as far as media goes.
- 1:13Speaker 1: We're talking about Philadelphia. She's married to a husband, uh,
- 1:17Speaker 1: well known endocrinologist. I mean it looks how could you
- 1:22Speaker 1: even write a story, a success story like that April
- 1:28Speaker 1: Kaufman Until she's found dead. We have been on the
- 1:36Speaker 1: case from the get go. Has the case cracked wide open?
- 1:42Speaker 1: I Mancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for
- 1:46Speaker 1: being with us. I want to start at the very beginning.
- 1:50Speaker 1: Let's break it down and put it back together again.
- 1:53Speaker 1: Chuck Roberts, Vincent Til, Dr Daniel bober and Wendy Patrick
- 1:57Speaker 1: with me along with Alan and Jackie's always first to you,
- 2:01Speaker 1: Chuck Roberts, Crime Stories, investigative reporter. Let's start with the
- 2:05Speaker 1: discovery of April's body. Take me back to that day.
- 2:11Speaker 1: Tell me what happened. The couple, as you said, had
- 2:15Speaker 1: a beautiful home. Heated the pool outside seven thousand square
- 2:20Speaker 1: foot home in Linwood, New Jersey, outside Atlantic City. A
- 2:23Speaker 1: handyman found her body on hold on whoa what sorry
- 2:27Speaker 1: sorry sorry sorry sorry? Seven thousand square foot home five
- 2:34Speaker 1: whoa five bedroom, seven baths, uh in ground pool in
- 2:39Speaker 1: the back. It was quite a quite a property. He
- 2:42Speaker 1: was doing well. He was a very very successful into chronology.
- 2:45Speaker 1: I think my apartment is like twelve hundred square feet,
- 2:49Speaker 1: Alan Dick, my apartments like twelve d square feet and
- 2:53Speaker 1: um maybe maybe. And that's me, David and the children,
- 3:02Speaker 1: and sometimes I am irritated would have to get up
- 3:07Speaker 1: and run down the hall to try to find one
- 3:09Speaker 1: of the children. So okay, let me let me take
- 3:11Speaker 1: this in. Did you say seven thousand square feet in
- 3:15Speaker 1: heated pool. Not better, not better? Okay, go ahead, go ahead.
- 3:20Speaker 1: I'm off the house now I'm moving on to the body.
- 3:23Speaker 1: I'm sorry that just caught my attention. I could I
- 3:25Speaker 1: couldn't help it. Wendy Patrick's Southern California prosecutor. Don't judge me, Okay,
- 3:31Speaker 1: you know it was like when I was prosecuting still, Wendy.
- 3:34Speaker 1: I don't know if this ever happens to you, but
- 3:36Speaker 1: I would be working on the weekends. Of course, we
- 3:38Speaker 1: had no money in the prosecutor's office. If I had
- 3:41Speaker 1: asked the elected d A then the longest serving d
- 3:45Speaker 1: A in the country thirty seven years, Louis Layton, I
- 3:48Speaker 1: think it was thirty seven from money, it wouldn't even
- 3:52Speaker 1: know what I was talking about. So I would be
- 3:54Speaker 1: going to buy my own poster board and markers and
- 3:59Speaker 1: blah blah blah on the weekends, trying to get my
- 4:01Speaker 1: opening and closing statements together. And I would be on
- 4:05Speaker 1: the floor working or trying to find witnesses and and
- 4:09Speaker 1: you know, crack houses and whorehouses and you name it.
- 4:13Speaker 1: And I would turn on the Martha Stewart Show in
- 4:18Speaker 1: the background, okay, and that's the one she had, Wendy,
- 4:22Speaker 1: I don't know if you ever saw this where she
- 4:23Speaker 1: I think she shot it at her real home. Would
- 4:28Speaker 1: and I wouldn't be surprised, and it was just too beautiful,
- 4:33Speaker 1: and she wouldn't make seemingly make something beautiful out of nothing.
- 4:38Speaker 1: And I think it was just like a fantasy, like
- 4:42Speaker 1: an escape from what I'm doing. So don't judge me. Okay,
- 4:46Speaker 1: let me look into their beautiful home for a moment. Okay,
- 4:50Speaker 1: no judging. Back to you, Chuck Roberts. I'm off the
- 4:54Speaker 1: seven thousand square foot home and the heated pool. Now
- 4:57Speaker 1: tell me about the dead body. The body um and
- 5:01Speaker 1: called night handy man. Yes, on many tenelve, this is
- 5:06Speaker 1: April Kaufman uh and found her on responses, don't get mad,
- 5:11Speaker 1: don't get mad, Wendy Patrick. As a veteran prosecutor, you
- 5:16Speaker 1: immediately look and who found the body? A handy man
- 5:21Speaker 1: with access to the home. Yeah, that's a that's a
- 5:24Speaker 1: great point one. No doubt that was explored very well
- 5:29Speaker 1: between then and now, which is interesting that no charges
- 5:31Speaker 1: came against him, so it sounds like he was clean. Yeah,
- 5:34Speaker 1: I'm sure that's the first thing police did is hone
- 5:36Speaker 1: in on the handyman who finds the dead body. All right, Chuck, Robert,
- 5:41Speaker 1: sorry about that? Go ahead. Well, he reported that she
- 5:44Speaker 1: had had cuts on her hand, when in fact she'd
- 5:47Speaker 1: been shot. Uh, And they responded, obviously and found her
- 5:53Speaker 1: with multiple gun try wait wait, wait, are you going
- 5:55Speaker 1: so fast? You're going to the fast? Did you say
- 5:58Speaker 1: it's like drinking out of a fire hydrant? Hold on?
- 6:01Speaker 1: Multiple gunshot wounds and she's got cuts on her hands,
- 6:07Speaker 1: Vincent Hill, private investigator, Vincent that screams defensive wounds to me,
- 6:14Speaker 1: but I'm not sure what does it say to you?
- 6:16Speaker 1: Cuts on her hands, but she was shot dead, multiple
- 6:21Speaker 1: gunshot wounds, Yeah, Nancy can either be defensive wounds or
- 6:25Speaker 1: it could have been at the handyman sold blood on
- 6:28Speaker 1: her hands that she likely held her gunshot wounds trying
- 6:32Speaker 1: maybe to stop the bleeding. And you know a lot
- 6:34Speaker 1: of people that aren't trained on the crime scenes and
- 6:37Speaker 1: trained on these types of injuries could misconceived something for uh,
- 6:42Speaker 1: something other than it was. So he may have seen
- 6:44Speaker 1: the blood, it could have been defensive wounds, or she
- 6:47Speaker 1: could have you been holding those wounds. Yeah, you know what,
- 6:50Speaker 1: you're right. I remember with the body of Travis Alexander
- 6:54Speaker 1: and a lot of bodies that I represented those dead
- 6:57Speaker 1: victims in court. There's so much blood you can't tell
- 7:00Speaker 1: what it is. You don't know if, like they didn't know,
- 7:03Speaker 1: if Travis Alexander at first had been shot multiple times,
- 7:06Speaker 1: stab multiple times. There's so much blood covering his body
- 7:09Speaker 1: you can't tell. You have to get the body to
- 7:13Speaker 1: the Emmy's medical examiner's office. The more the corners for
- 7:16Speaker 1: them to clean the body and process the body to
- 7:20Speaker 1: determine what really happened. So let's let's start right there.
- 7:23Speaker 1: You know what I love, Wendy Patrick. I don't know
- 7:26Speaker 1: if you feel the same way, but I love playing
- 7:29Speaker 1: a nine one one call because it takes me and
- 7:32Speaker 1: the jury back to that moment. And no matter how
- 7:35Speaker 1: many times I listened to a nine one one call,
- 7:39Speaker 1: very often I will learn something new. It might be
- 7:45Speaker 1: very small, but I learned something new. Do you feel
- 7:48Speaker 1: the same way, window absolutely, And you know the demeanor
- 7:51Speaker 1: and tone of boys you and I have probably both
- 7:53Speaker 1: used to gauge the authenticity and the veracity of what's
- 7:57Speaker 1: being said on that call. There's just so many vote
- 8:00Speaker 1: cues that there's just no other way to be able
- 8:02Speaker 1: to discern. And that really struck me in this case
- 8:06Speaker 1: listening to the nine one one call is he didn't
- 8:08Speaker 1: sound guilty. And you know, even so, as has been
- 8:11Speaker 1: pointed out aptly, you know, he may have misperceived and
- 8:16Speaker 1: misreported what he saw. He sounded like he was telling
- 8:19Speaker 1: the truth. I agree with you right there. I agree,
- 8:22Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick. I main, here's the deal. Nine one one
- 8:26Speaker 1: calls blood spatter. You know I could talk about that
- 8:30Speaker 1: all day. Hey, let's stop. Dr Daniel Bober please, forensic
- 8:35Speaker 1: psychiatrist joining me, Please listen along with me to the
- 8:39Speaker 1: nine one one call reporting April Kaufman, beautiful mom and
- 8:45Speaker 1: popular DJ Dead. I'm in the mercer, I had my
- 8:51Speaker 1: bond down. Who would dog dribe Lynwood? Who would try? Yes, ma'am, okay,
- 9:03Speaker 1: hold on, I'm transferring to the rescue appert to get
- 9:05Speaker 1: down the line. One minute, okay, in okay, Actually he's
- 9:17Speaker 1: out of calling, calling me My partner on the floor
- 9:23Speaker 1: in her bedroom and he got a cut on her arm,
- 9:26Speaker 1: and who would dog dry? So it's interesting to me
- 9:37Speaker 1: to Dr Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrists joining me again, Thank you,
- 9:41Speaker 1: Dr Bober. Uh. Dr Bober. I find it interesting relationship
- 9:47Speaker 1: wise that he refers to her as his boss. That's
- 9:50Speaker 1: how he says, my boss, And that tells me a
- 9:52Speaker 1: lot about their relationship that is not very personal, seems
- 9:57Speaker 1: sort of cold and sort of all business. I think
- 10:00Speaker 1: you're right. I don't know that I would call it cold,
- 10:03Speaker 1: but I would agree it's a business relationship. And if
- 10:07Speaker 1: the handyman is going to kill April, then you would
- 10:13Speaker 1: expect there would have been more of a relationship, some
- 10:16Speaker 1: anger or something to cause a murder. Again, to me,
- 10:22Speaker 1: that rules out the handyman. So this woman, April Kaufman,
- 10:27Speaker 1: is found dead, found dead shot in the couple's bedroom
- 10:32Speaker 1: with lacerations apparently to her hands and arms. Officers from
- 10:37Speaker 1: the Lynwood p D respond to the call at Woodstock
- 10:41Speaker 1: Drive in Lynnwood. When they get there, what do they find,
- 10:45Speaker 1: shut Roberts exactly, that her body is lying face down
- 10:50Speaker 1: in the bedroom. Uh. And the medical examiner, as you said,
- 10:54Speaker 1: was called and uh apparently she'd been shot twice. Although
- 10:58Speaker 1: the medical examiner UH reported multiple gunshot wounds. So twice
- 11:03Speaker 1: apparently is the is the final verdict on the number
- 11:06Speaker 1: of rounds. Uh? And then Kaufman the husband, Dr James Kaufman,
- 11:12Speaker 1: known to his patients as Dr Jim by the Way,
- 11:15Speaker 1: told police he had been at work and he denied
- 11:17Speaker 1: any involvement at all when he got to the residence.
- 11:21Speaker 1: So he had been at work and Vincent Hill, there
- 11:25Speaker 1: were plenty of people to give him an airtight alibi.
- 11:28Speaker 1: He was in fact at work at the time she
- 11:32Speaker 1: shot dead. Yeah, but here's the thing, Nancy. You don't
- 11:35Speaker 1: have to be at the scene of a murder to
- 11:37Speaker 1: be behind the murder, right of course. You if any
- 11:41Speaker 1: time you're looking at a spouse, you're probably prime suspect
- 11:44Speaker 1: number one. So you want to remove yourself from that
- 11:47Speaker 1: scene as much as you can. So, of course this
- 11:50Speaker 1: doctor would be away from that scene. Gunned down in
- 11:52Speaker 1: her own master bedroom. This talk show host, who had
- 11:56Speaker 1: very widely campaign for veterans, is dead in her upscale
- 12:03Speaker 1: Linden home. Now police start the search, the search for
- 12:07Speaker 1: a suspect and the murder of this much loved DJ
- 12:12Speaker 1: and mom again. Her husband, Dr James Coffman says his
- 12:16Speaker 1: wife was asleep when he leaves for work that morning
- 12:19Speaker 1: he heads to work. You know, you can tell based
- 12:23Speaker 1: on rigor. Rigor mortis very often how long a body
- 12:29Speaker 1: has been dead. Dr Daniel Bober. Based on rigor, they
- 12:35Speaker 1: determined that she was in fact shot after he goes
- 12:39Speaker 1: to work. So how do you tell that, Dr Bober?
- 12:43Speaker 1: You're not just as psychiatrist, you're an m D as well.
- 12:45Speaker 1: And see what happens is there are changes in the
- 12:47Speaker 1: proteins of the muscles that during after death. Because there's
- 12:51Speaker 1: no blood, there's no profusion, there's no oxygen, these proteins breakdown,
- 12:55Speaker 1: which caused the muscles to become stiff, which is how
- 12:58Speaker 1: you get rigor mortis. So to put it in regular
- 13:01Speaker 1: people talk, Dr Daniel Bober, you stiffen up. You stiffen
- 13:06Speaker 1: up when the blood stops flowing. Oxygen is no longer
- 13:10Speaker 1: going to the various parts of your body, and your
- 13:13Speaker 1: body becomes stiff. Now, after a number of hours, the
- 13:18Speaker 1: rigular loosens up. But in this instance they could tell
- 13:23Speaker 1: based on lividity. Lividity is where your blood is in
- 13:27Speaker 1: your body. In other words, you fall flat on your face,
- 13:31Speaker 1: all the blood in your body stops circulating and goes
- 13:34Speaker 1: down to the lowest level, yes, cooling. They could tell
- 13:39Speaker 1: from that as well, because that takes a certain amount
- 13:41Speaker 1: of time. To do. Also, you can tell from the
- 13:44Speaker 1: temperature of the body. Once you die, your body immediately
- 13:48Speaker 1: starts losing temperature and you essentially become the temperature of
- 13:53Speaker 1: the ambiance room around you. So there's many ways to
- 13:57Speaker 1: tell how long she had been dead. And she absolutely
- 14:00Speaker 1: was shot after the husband goes to work. Her bullet
- 14:03Speaker 1: riddled body was found at eleven thirty a m. That
- 14:08Speaker 1: Thursday by houseworker who called that's what we know now.
- 14:14Speaker 1: She was shot multiple times in the bedroom. That's about
- 14:17Speaker 1: twelve miles away from one of the gambling capitals of
- 14:22Speaker 1: the world, Atlantic City. Our investigation into the brutal murder
- 14:29Speaker 1: of wife, mother, veterans advocate and popular DJ April Kaufman.
- 14:35Speaker 1: Why did it have to happen? We couldn't do that
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- 16:45Speaker 1: were doing for Americans all across the country every day. Guys,
- 16:49Speaker 1: we're diving right back into the murder of April Kaufman
- 16:54Speaker 1: because in the last hours there's been a very big
- 16:57Speaker 1: break in the case. Atlantic City, one of the gambling
- 17:02Speaker 1: capitals of the world, and coincidentally, not too far from there,
- 17:08Speaker 1: this woman has found dead, multiple gunshot wounds in the
- 17:12Speaker 1: master bedroom of her home. So we've established a business
- 17:17Speaker 1: relationship between her and the handyman. Her daughter is an adult,
- 17:22Speaker 1: uh well almost an adult, and she has an alibi
- 17:27Speaker 1: for that day. I established that daughter very loving idolized
- 17:33Speaker 1: her mom, not a suspect. We've established the husband left
- 17:37Speaker 1: that morning before she was shot based on forensics evidence.
- 17:43Speaker 1: He had an airtight alibi. He was at work seeing patients.
- 17:48Speaker 1: So what happens the case seemingly goes cold. Joining me
- 17:57Speaker 1: Chuck Roberts, Vincent Hill, Dr Daniel and Wendy Patrick. Wendy Patrick,
- 18:02Speaker 1: Southern California Prosecutor. When your case goes cold. What do
- 18:06Speaker 1: you do? But you've got to warm up the cold case, Nancy.
- 18:09Speaker 1: And the only way to do that is reopen it
- 18:12Speaker 1: as if it was just assigned to you. You remember
- 18:14Speaker 1: the thrill of getting a great new case, and it
- 18:17Speaker 1: just happened. It's all over the news. It's difficult to
- 18:20Speaker 1: recreate that momentum. But that's what cold case units do,
- 18:24Speaker 1: is if there's a break, it's assigned to somebody and
- 18:27Speaker 1: it's worked up as if it were a fresh case.
- 18:29Speaker 1: And that apparently is what happened here, which led to
- 18:33Speaker 1: the accumulation of evidence that finally was able to get
- 18:37Speaker 1: us the breaks that we needed. Neighbors stated that they
- 18:41Speaker 1: witnessed Dr Kaufman distressed arriving at the murder scene, telling
- 18:49Speaker 1: them his wife was asleep with a pillow over her
- 18:52Speaker 1: face when he went to work early early that morning.
- 18:58Speaker 1: I'm just imagining it all play out in my mind.
- 19:01Speaker 1: She's asleep, Dr Bober, forensic psychiatrist. She's got the pillow
- 19:06Speaker 1: over her face. He gets up quietly and leaves the
- 19:09Speaker 1: house so we won't wake her up. Let's take a
- 19:13Speaker 1: look at him. He was wanting to leave his practice.
- 19:19Speaker 1: He wanted he had been working for years. They had
- 19:22Speaker 1: bought a home in Arizona and they wanted to relocate.
- 19:27Speaker 1: So what does this mean to him that he no
- 19:30Speaker 1: longer has a wife? What do you go through when
- 19:34Speaker 1: you lose a spouse, not only lose them, but lose
- 19:37Speaker 1: them in a violent manner and nobody knows what really happened.
- 19:42Speaker 1: That's that's pain compounded, Nancy. We know that the two
- 19:46Speaker 1: most stressful things that could happen to someone in their
- 19:48Speaker 1: life is the death of a spouse or the death
- 19:50Speaker 1: of a child. Uh. And people who experienced these events
- 19:54Speaker 1: are essentially devastated. You would be uh incapacitated and you
- 19:58Speaker 1: probably will not be able to work, not be able
- 20:01Speaker 1: to function for a certain period of time. They are
- 20:04Speaker 1: in a state of shock. Uh And it takes them
- 20:07Speaker 1: a long time to be able to even return to life,
- 20:10Speaker 1: which as we know, will never be normal. One person
- 20:13Speaker 1: seemed to be very sure who was the killer, and
- 20:19Speaker 1: that is April Kaufman's daughter. From the very beginning, she
- 20:26Speaker 1: said she knew she knew who did it. Joining me
- 20:32Speaker 1: is Alan Duke in l A. Jackie Howard with me
- 20:35Speaker 1: here in the studio. Alan, the daughter always claimed she
- 20:40Speaker 1: knew what happened, tell me yes. And in fact she
- 20:43Speaker 1: she filed a civil suit against her stepfather a wrong.
- 20:46Speaker 1: So her husband, Dr. Kaufman is not the bio dad
- 20:50Speaker 1: of the daughter. No, this is her stepfather. So so
- 20:55Speaker 1: there you add that layer of it. But she was
- 20:57Speaker 1: always suspicious of him. She was pushing investigators of the
- 21:00Speaker 1: prosecutor to do something for years and finally when this
- 21:03Speaker 1: new prosecutor came on board, was right about the same
- 21:07Speaker 1: time that she had a law firm ready to file
- 21:09Speaker 1: a civil suit against her stepfather, which is now pending.
- 21:15Speaker 1: Way before crack in the case, the daughter of April
- 21:19Speaker 1: Kaufman files a civil suit. Her name is Kim Pack.
- 21:24Speaker 1: From the very beginning, she said, I don't care if
- 21:27Speaker 1: he had an alibi. I don't care if my mom
- 21:31Speaker 1: somehow was murdered after he left. He did it. I
- 21:35Speaker 1: don't know how he did it, but he did it,
- 21:38Speaker 1: and I'm going to prove he did it. That is
- 21:41Speaker 1: what the daughter said, and she never ever stopped. So
- 21:47Speaker 1: what was uncovered to Chuck Roberts Crime Stories investigative reporter,
- 21:52Speaker 1: how did it unfold? It really unfolded when she asked
- 21:57Speaker 1: James Kaufman for a divorce and he wouldn't give it
- 22:01Speaker 1: to her. Uh, And the tension grew and grew, and
- 22:04Speaker 1: obviously the daughter had to be privy to that. I mean,
- 22:08Speaker 1: her mom was in distress. I did not know the
- 22:12Speaker 1: world did not know that she April wanted a divorce
- 22:16Speaker 1: and Kaufman wouldn't do it. I mean, really, if somebody
- 22:18Speaker 1: wants a divorce, why do you want them anyway? Let
- 22:21Speaker 1: them go. I know your heart, I know you're hurt,
- 22:24Speaker 1: I know you're broken in half. But who wants somebody
- 22:27Speaker 1: that doesn't want to be with them? For Pete's sake,
- 22:29Speaker 1: there's somebody else out there. No offense you men on
- 22:33Speaker 1: the panel. But my mother always said men are like buses.
- 22:37Speaker 1: There'll be a knee one in fifteen minutes, when another
- 22:39Speaker 1: one will just come right along. I'm not suggesting your
- 22:42Speaker 1: interchangeable Alan Duke, don't get all crazy, but I mean,
- 22:45Speaker 1: if she wants a divorce, give her a divorce. But
- 22:48Speaker 1: he said no. He was quoted as saying he didn't
- 22:51Speaker 1: want to give up half of his financial empire. And
- 22:55Speaker 1: that's what the divorce, you know, would entail. Uh, division
- 22:59Speaker 1: of assets. He didn't want to give up half of
- 23:01Speaker 1: his financial empire. Half of his assets. Well, Dr Daniel Bober,
- 23:07Speaker 1: forensic psychiatrist, there's nothing to make a woman feel wanted
- 23:10Speaker 1: then to tell her, well, I would divorce you, but
- 23:12Speaker 1: I'd lose half my money. You know that that really
- 23:15Speaker 1: warms your heart, Nancy. This is something I see in
- 23:18Speaker 1: my patents all the time, especially people have been married
- 23:21Speaker 1: for years. A lot of times they'll stay in relationships
- 23:25Speaker 1: that are not healthy or they're not they don't find fulfilling,
- 23:29Speaker 1: specifically for that reason because they don't want to lose
- 23:32Speaker 1: the money. And it sounds like sort of an evil
- 23:35Speaker 1: motivation to stay, but very often that is the motivator. Well,
- 23:38Speaker 1: I I tell you that made me a little bit
- 23:41Speaker 1: suspicious when he didn't want to split his income, but
- 23:44Speaker 1: that's pretty common. But what really raise the hair on
- 23:48Speaker 1: the back of my neck is when he did not
- 23:51Speaker 1: want to hand over a d in a sample. That
- 23:56Speaker 1: is what made me suspicious into this. How do you
- 24:01Speaker 1: feel about the prosecutor requesting a DNA sample from James Kaufman.
- 24:07Speaker 1: You know, I think that I've been waiting for a
- 24:10Speaker 1: very long time for any kind of movement, and I
- 24:14Speaker 1: feel like I've been in this by myself. So when
- 24:18Speaker 1: I heard, just like the rest of the population, that
- 24:21Speaker 1: UM the news had reported that they were requesting a
- 24:24Speaker 1: DNA sample. I was overwhelmed with so many emotions. I
- 24:29Speaker 1: can't even explain. UM, just for the fact that this
- 24:33Speaker 1: means something maybe to this current prosecutor, and that there
- 24:36Speaker 1: is forward progression. Like I said to you UM in
- 24:40Speaker 1: the past, I can't pretend to know why or what
- 24:43Speaker 1: they're using this for. UM. They keep their criminal um
- 24:46Speaker 1: investigation very close to their test um. But it it
- 24:51Speaker 1: it's so surreal because I've been waiting for this for
- 24:54Speaker 1: five years. To Wendy Patrick, Southern California Prosecutor, Wendy, when
- 24:58Speaker 1: people refused to submit to a lie detector or a
- 25:02Speaker 1: d n A test or come in for questioning immediately,
- 25:06Speaker 1: that doesn't make them guilty, but immediately, to me, it
- 25:09Speaker 1: makes them very suspicious. You know, it certainly does. And
- 25:13Speaker 1: it's interesting you chose the examples you did because obviously
- 25:16Speaker 1: the lie detector test, although it's not admissible in court,
- 25:19Speaker 1: it is an investigative tool that we use, and sometimes
- 25:23Speaker 1: it's precisely for the reason you cite. It's because it's
- 25:26Speaker 1: credibility that counts in every single case, no matter who
- 25:30Speaker 1: you are now the inability or the unwillingness, whichever it is,
- 25:34Speaker 1: to submit to forensics, whether it's d n A, whether
- 25:37Speaker 1: it's some other kind of a sample, hair saliva, however
- 25:41Speaker 1: you get it, whether or not you've got a constitutional
- 25:44Speaker 1: right to refuse, which of course is always being litigated.
- 25:47Speaker 1: The fact that you refuse is often a fact in
- 25:50Speaker 1: the case. Sometimes something the jury ends up finding out
- 25:53Speaker 1: about that makes you look ill. So you've got him
- 25:55Speaker 1: refusing to give his d n A. He has not
- 25:57Speaker 1: been named with suspect or a person of interests, no
- 26:00Speaker 1: way the police can make him give d n A.
- 26:03Speaker 1: If you are suspect, then a warrant can be obtained
- 26:08Speaker 1: and you can be forced to give your d n A.
- 26:11Speaker 1: The constitution does not protect you from giving, for instance,
- 26:15Speaker 1: d n A or writing exemplar or coming to a lineup.
- 26:21Speaker 1: You have to do that under the law, okay, But
- 26:25Speaker 1: you can, of course insist on your right to remain silent.
- 26:28Speaker 1: But since he wasn't named a suspect, they couldn't force
- 26:31Speaker 1: him to give d n A. Over and over, the
- 26:35Speaker 1: daughter continued to claim the stepfather is the killer. Still
- 26:42Speaker 1: nothing would make him hand over DNA or really even cooperate.
- 26:47Speaker 1: So what finally happened? A new d A came in,
- 26:53Speaker 1: including a fleet of new investigators. The investigators worked the
- 26:57Speaker 1: streets and began to hear rumors about regularities within Kaufman's clinic.
- 27:05Speaker 1: Fantastically profitable clinic to Chuck Roberts, climb stores investigative reporter.
- 27:13Speaker 1: What happens? Then? This case was cold for so long,
- 27:16Speaker 1: generated a lot of social media Facebook page Justice for
- 27:20Speaker 1: April Kaufman was started, um, and really not much happened
- 27:24Speaker 1: until a new district attorney came on the scene and
- 27:27Speaker 1: decided to really dig into this and assign a lot
- 27:30Speaker 1: of prosecutors and resources to solving this crime and took
- 27:34Speaker 1: a hard look at what Dr Kaufman was up to.
- 27:38Speaker 1: Uh and later found out that he was involved with Uh,
- 27:43Speaker 1: sort of a pill mill. Who saw that coming? Not me?
- 27:48Speaker 1: This prominent New Jersey doctor in the shadows of Atlantic
- 27:53Speaker 1: City gambling capital and an illegal prescription drug with a
- 28:01Speaker 1: motorcycle gang exactly the Pagan Outlaws which had their biggest
- 28:06Speaker 1: chapter in Philadelphia in just across five ninety miles away. Uh. Yeah,
- 28:12Speaker 1: Kaufman was at the top, according to prosecutors of a
- 28:15Speaker 1: drug distribution hierarchy. Uh. And he did it with the
- 28:18Speaker 1: help of the pagan outlaws. Uh. And they would send
- 28:22Speaker 1: him clients and he would, for a thousand dollars write
- 28:26Speaker 1: them prescriptions for percocets or any other kind of opioid
- 28:31Speaker 1: that was on the market, oxycodone, OxyContin uh. And then
- 28:36Speaker 1: uh the motorcycle gang intermediary would resell it using the
- 28:40Speaker 1: gang to others on the street. And that went on
- 28:43Speaker 1: for years. In fact, they went on for five years.
- 28:45Speaker 1: Please they get a search for it. But it didn't
- 28:48Speaker 1: go down the way they planned. As a matter of fact,
- 28:52Speaker 1: there was a standoff. Dr Coffman refused to let police
- 28:57Speaker 1: in the door. In fact, he held himself hostage. Yeah
- 29:02Speaker 1: you heard me right, This prominent doctor, he's rolling in money,
- 29:09Speaker 1: holds himself hostage with a gun to his head. Listen
- 29:14Speaker 1: to this. Don't coming back, coming back, coming back down.
- 29:36Speaker 1: Hold on, he's coming out, it's coming out. The strict five.
- 29:43Speaker 1: District five got one gun point. We have one a
- 29:45Speaker 1: gun point. Dr James colfor I have won a gun point.
- 29:52Speaker 1: Dr James calf and he has a weapon. Dropped the
- 29:54Speaker 1: gun dropped the gun, Hey dropped the gun dropped a
- 30:00Speaker 1: gun a search warrant, Sir, dropped the gun to drop
- 30:07Speaker 1: drop the gun. Let's talk, sir, just drop the gun.
- 30:11Speaker 1: We have a search war. We have a search warr half.
- 30:18Speaker 1: I don't believe it, so we just search warrants. Put
- 30:25Speaker 1: the weapon, day, drop the weapon. Listen, let's talk. I
- 30:31Speaker 1: take it Alan, do you He did not make good
- 30:34Speaker 1: on his threat and kill himself. No, it was a
- 30:36Speaker 1: false threat. So you know, I've always been fascinating Wendy
- 30:39Speaker 1: patcheck with people that held himself hostage. It really came
- 30:43Speaker 1: to the forefront when O. J. Simpson took that little
- 30:45Speaker 1: ride with his buddy A. C. Callings and had a
- 30:49Speaker 1: gun on himself. I'm like, yeah, I didn't get it,
- 30:53Speaker 1: so he held himself hostage, Wendy. Yeah, you buy yourself
- 30:57Speaker 1: time that way as you try to decide what to
- 30:59Speaker 1: do next. We see this in a lot of different
- 31:01Speaker 1: types of cases, but it's another incident where you can
- 31:04Speaker 1: count that his consciousness of guilt, and you know it's
- 31:07Speaker 1: It's different if you are overcome with grief after having
- 31:10Speaker 1: lost a spouse, as we've discussed earlier. It is also
- 31:13Speaker 1: different when you have reactions other than holding yourself hostage.
- 31:19Speaker 1: There's just not an innocent way in most cases to
- 31:22Speaker 1: interpret that type of evidence, and it always winds its
- 31:24Speaker 1: way into the trial, and normally in a fashion that
- 31:28Speaker 1: doesn't help the defendant. You know, I'm always suspicious Visit Hill,
- 31:31Speaker 1: private investigator. What if cops said, Okay, go ahead, shoot yourself,
- 31:36Speaker 1: we're not going to deal with your kidnappers demands when
- 31:40Speaker 1: you're holding yourself hostage. I mean, it's like you put
- 31:43Speaker 1: the skids on everything when you put a gun to
- 31:45Speaker 1: your head. I don't think police would would definitely say that, Nancy,
- 31:49Speaker 1: But I think what they were concerned with, although he
- 31:51Speaker 1: did have the gun pointing at himself, if he watched
- 31:54Speaker 1: the body camp foot its, police kept their guns, you know,
- 31:57Speaker 1: drawn on him because at any given moment, he could
- 32:00Speaker 1: have turned that gun around and shot police. So I
- 32:03Speaker 1: think they handled it the way they should have handled
- 32:05Speaker 1: it based on their training and based on what I
- 32:07Speaker 1: saw in that video. Oh yeah, of course they did
- 32:09Speaker 1: the right thing Vincent Hill, because he could easily turn
- 32:12Speaker 1: the gun on innocent people in the clinic or on
- 32:15Speaker 1: the cops. So long story short, you got the husband
- 32:18Speaker 1: who has an airtight alibi who forensically could not have
- 32:22Speaker 1: been there at the time of the incident, refusing to
- 32:26Speaker 1: give his d N a clamming up, and then holding
- 32:30Speaker 1: himself hostage when cops want to look in his clinic.
- 32:34Speaker 1: Who saw that coming? Not me? But this civil lawsuit
- 32:40Speaker 1: filed by the daughter Kim Pack threatened to expose everything.
- 32:46Speaker 1: A divorce threatened to expose everything. If if if a
- 32:51Speaker 1: forensic accountant had gotten into his business and followed the
- 32:55Speaker 1: money trail, they would have found this opioid drug ring
- 32:59Speaker 1: and a new are a minute, guys were diving right
- 33:02Speaker 1: back into the murder of April Kaufman because in the
- 33:07Speaker 1: last hours there's been a very big break in the case.
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- 35:48Speaker 1: Back to the Atlantic City area and the death of
- 35:51Speaker 1: April Kaufman, who would have sunk it? Who would have
- 35:55Speaker 1: thunk it? To Dr Daniel Boberg. You're the forensic psychiatrist.
- 35:58Speaker 1: How does a prominent, un rich, educated endocrinologists get hooked
- 36:06Speaker 1: up with the pagan outlaw motorcycle gang. And somebody tell
- 36:10Speaker 1: me that bober And so you know what, There's this
- 36:13Speaker 1: book called Sharks and Suits, and it talks about how
- 36:16Speaker 1: even the most successful people, in fact, some of the
- 36:18Speaker 1: most successful people are just antisocial. They're just evil. They
- 36:22Speaker 1: are cunning, they don't have remorse, They steal, they lie,
- 36:25Speaker 1: they cheat, and very often that's how they become successful.
- 36:28Speaker 1: So this story doesn't surprise me so much. It just
- 36:31Speaker 1: shows that you really don't know what's going on under
- 36:34Speaker 1: the service, and there's a lot of wolves out there
- 36:37Speaker 1: in cheap's clothing. I had had any idea, Wendy Patrick,
- 36:42Speaker 1: veteran prosecutor in southern California, that this doctor was hooked
- 36:47Speaker 1: up with a motorcycle gang. No offense to motorcycle gangs.
- 36:51Speaker 1: I've put many of them on the standards witnesses and
- 36:54Speaker 1: they were very believable. But if I had known he
- 36:57Speaker 1: was hooked up with the pagan outlaws, I would immediately
- 37:02Speaker 1: try to connect the two in this murder. So, Wendy Patrick,
- 37:08Speaker 1: that is that how he did it? Yeah, you know,
- 37:11Speaker 1: it's so it's so interesting. We've got Dr Bober talking
- 37:13Speaker 1: about one of my favorite books, Snakes and Suits, which
- 37:16Speaker 1: is about psychopathy in the workplace, is fascinating, and we've
- 37:20Speaker 1: got the motorcycle gang, which is a stereo type. So
- 37:23Speaker 1: you look at the two and think there's got to
- 37:25Speaker 1: be some connection beyond what meets the eye, and you
- 37:29Speaker 1: wonder if maybe this is what April new uh and
- 37:31Speaker 1: for her, of course, justice delayed has not been justice denied.
- 37:34Speaker 1: We now have a murder charge but she knew she
- 37:37Speaker 1: could tell, whether it's based on these associations or the
- 37:41Speaker 1: dynamics she saw behind the scenes, that her stepfather didn't
- 37:45Speaker 1: need to have been there to have been been behind
- 37:47Speaker 1: the attack. So his affiliation with the motorcycle gang was
- 37:50Speaker 1: definitely a red flag out of the ordinary, something to
- 37:53Speaker 1: be explored for sure, and actually did end up coming
- 37:57Speaker 1: to fruition and giving us the context out we now
- 38:00Speaker 1: find really did play a role in the March Roberts
- 38:03Speaker 1: crime stories. Investigative reporter Chuck Roberts, How did it all
- 38:06Speaker 1: go down? What? What was the doctor connected to a
- 38:10Speaker 1: motorcycle gang through the illegal drug ring? Exactly? That's that.
- 38:15Speaker 1: That's the connection and apparently that was uncovered as the
- 38:19Speaker 1: result of the raid on the doctor's office back in June.
- 38:24Speaker 1: Uh he was hooked up with a guy named Ferdinand
- 38:26Speaker 1: Jello of the Pagan Outlaws UH and then solicited because
- 38:31Speaker 1: he was being threatened by his wife for exposure a
- 38:34Speaker 1: hit on his wife through the Pagan Outlaws, and Jello
- 38:38Speaker 1: recruited at the end of about an eighteen month search
- 38:43Speaker 1: an associate of the Pagan Outlaws again, Frank Moholland, who
- 38:48Speaker 1: police say was the one who entered the home and
- 38:53Speaker 1: shot April Kaufman. So according to the daughter Kim Pack,
- 39:01Speaker 1: this is how he did it. Why are there six
- 39:07Speaker 1: pagan outlaws charged, including two women Chuck Roberts. What did
- 39:11Speaker 1: they have to do with it? Well? One of them, Um,
- 39:14Speaker 1: the wife of a Jello, who's fifteen years younger than
- 39:17Speaker 1: her husband, Um and who has a was a successful
- 39:21Speaker 1: of businesswoman herself, was the paymaster. The police say that
- 39:27Speaker 1: she was the one who delivered the twenty dollar payoff
- 39:30Speaker 1: to the hitman, Frank Bollholland. So that's her alleged role
- 39:34Speaker 1: in this. The others were just involved in supplying a
- 39:38Speaker 1: regular supply of of clients to the doctor who would
- 39:43Speaker 1: write these phony prescriptions for percocept and OxyContin and oxy
- 39:48Speaker 1: CoDown at a thousand dollars a pop. Uh. They were
- 39:52Speaker 1: they they supplied him with those customers basically, and they
- 39:57Speaker 1: are part of that same criminal conspiracy you know, and
- 40:00Speaker 1: other thing that happened. I mean, it all goes back
- 40:02Speaker 1: in my mind to the love of money, not money
- 40:06Speaker 1: as the root of all evil, the love of money.
- 40:10Speaker 1: Because this guy would not divorce April because he didn't
- 40:14Speaker 1: want to give up half his empire. If he had,
- 40:17Speaker 1: he'd still be in his practice, running his drug ring
- 40:20Speaker 1: right now, living in his seven thousand square foot mansion
- 40:24Speaker 1: with a heated pool. But no, he did not want
- 40:27Speaker 1: to split the money. He then, as soon as his
- 40:31Speaker 1: wife died, tried to fly off for two life insurance policies.
- 40:37Speaker 1: I mean, there was no end to his greed, his greed,
- 40:43Speaker 1: his love of money. So I want you to hear this,
- 40:50Speaker 1: the press announcement that so many people had been waiting for.
- 40:55Speaker 1: Listen to the Atlantic County Prosecutor Damon G. Tie Today,
- 41:00Speaker 1: James Kaufman, aged sixty nine, and berdend Ajello, age sixty two,
- 41:05Speaker 1: were charged with murder in connection with the death of
- 41:08Speaker 1: April Kaufman, in addition to racketeering related to the illegal
- 41:15Speaker 1: distribution of narcotics through Kaufman's former medical practice. Additionally, Ajello
- 41:21Speaker 1: was charged with conspiracy to commit the murder of James M. Kaufman.
- 41:26Speaker 1: Upon information and believe known to my office, an individual
- 41:29Speaker 1: named Francis Frank Maulholland was paid a sum of money
- 41:33Speaker 1: to kill April Kaufman. Almost eighteen months after April Kaufman's murder,
- 41:39Speaker 1: uh Frank Maulholland died in October of two thousand thirteen
- 41:44Speaker 1: by at the time what was determined to be an
- 41:46Speaker 1: accidental drug overdose. Investigation, we determined that a long term
- 41:50Speaker 1: alliance between members of the Pagan Outlaw motorcycle Gang and
- 41:56Speaker 1: James Kaufman was created for the mutual financial gain through
- 42:02Speaker 1: the use of Kaufman's medical practice for a legal drug distribution.
- 42:07Speaker 1: This relationship ultimately culminated on May tent, two thousand twelve,
- 42:10Speaker 1: with the murder for hire of April Kaufman. Prior to
- 42:14Speaker 1: two thousand eleven, defendant Kaufman and Ferdinand all Jello had
- 42:17Speaker 1: a relationship which centered around the medical practice, and then
- 42:21Speaker 1: the summer of two thousand eleven, James Kaufman solicited all
- 42:25Speaker 1: Jello to murder his wife. So I want you to
- 42:28Speaker 1: hear this. This is Kim Pack, her daughter speaking after
- 42:38Speaker 1: the blockbuster announcement her stepfather has been charged in her
- 42:45Speaker 1: mother's murder. Listen to the daughter who said earlier, my
- 42:51Speaker 1: life was changed forever that day. As you can imagine,
- 42:54Speaker 1: today is a very very difficult day for me. A
- 42:57Speaker 1: lot of mixed emotions. Um as a victim, you know,
- 43:03Speaker 1: May ten, two thousand and twelve forever changed my life.
- 43:09Speaker 1: I UM have been waiting patiently for justice, and today
- 43:14Speaker 1: I was lucky enough to be granted justice. I do
- 43:17Speaker 1: understand that this is going to give you loom process,
- 43:19Speaker 1: and this is by no means over. I think for
- 43:23Speaker 1: the first time today, I can actually breathe. For the
- 43:26Speaker 1: past five and a half years, I have feel I
- 43:29Speaker 1: felt like I've been holding my breath on a daily basis.
- 43:33Speaker 1: I couldn't even begin to describe to you today, UM,
- 43:39Speaker 1: the emotions that I feel. I feel like I'm standing
- 43:41Speaker 1: before you and I'm shaking. Wendy Patrick, I don't know
- 43:43Speaker 1: about you, but I remember I hadn't been at the
- 43:47Speaker 1: Prosecutor's office too too long when I got called to
- 43:50Speaker 1: the d a's office and I walked and he was
- 43:53Speaker 1: reading the paper. Sit Mr Lighton, and I wouldn't dare
- 43:58Speaker 1: sat down for pate sake, just stood there and he
- 44:01Speaker 1: lowered the paper, goes, yeah, Nancy, I got a case,
- 44:04Speaker 1: and I need you to put it back together. It
- 44:06Speaker 1: got reversed. Uh his name Hamilton's, Yes, Sir. I left.
- 44:12Speaker 1: I had no idea this case occurred many many years
- 44:16Speaker 1: before before I even entered law school. Two guys gunned
- 44:20Speaker 1: down Um, the brother of an Atlanta police officer, as
- 44:25Speaker 1: he was on his back terrorist with his fiancee toasting
- 44:28Speaker 1: their engagement. That just happened, and the case was in
- 44:34Speaker 1: such a disarray. I went to the evidence room. I mean,
- 44:37Speaker 1: the case had been tried one the people were sentenced,
- 44:41Speaker 1: and had gone up on appeal three times, and then
- 44:46Speaker 1: it came back down. Fourteen years had passed and I
- 44:51Speaker 1: could find one X ray and a hat that said
- 44:55Speaker 1: kiss my bass. That's all the evidence I could find.
- 45:00Speaker 1: And that's where I started putting together the case. Okay,
- 45:04Speaker 1: putting together a case that has been languishing is very
- 45:09Speaker 1: hard to do, but this prosecutor is doing it winding,
- 45:13Speaker 1: that's right. We we often say cases unlike fine wine,
- 45:17Speaker 1: do not improve with age, especially when you have all
- 45:22Speaker 1: all kinds of evidence from different places that need to
- 45:25Speaker 1: be put together. But when we warm up cold cases
- 45:28Speaker 1: like we did here, with a fresh set of eyes,
- 45:31Speaker 1: with fresh motivation, as we saw from this prosecutor, it
- 45:35Speaker 1: often leads to the determination of maybe even additional forensic
- 45:38Speaker 1: evidence we didn't know we could obtain back then. Because
- 45:41Speaker 1: while cases might not improve, forensics have and we've mentioned DNA.
- 45:45Speaker 1: There are so many different ways that you can take
- 45:48Speaker 1: these facts put them back together. This actually a case.
- 45:51Speaker 1: This wasn't that old, thankfully and breathe new life into
- 45:54Speaker 1: it to be able to put the facts together as
- 45:57Speaker 1: has been done here to provide some justice of the
- 46:00Speaker 1: victims family. I'm looking at the faces of these six
- 46:03Speaker 1: pagan outlaws, and I guarantee you, I guarantee you, Wendy Patrick,
- 46:11Speaker 1: one at least one of them doesn't want to go
- 46:14Speaker 1: down for life without parole. And that's gonna be the crack, Wendy.
- 46:19Speaker 1: You've got six people looking square in the camera at
- 46:22Speaker 1: their mug shots, and if it were me, I would
- 46:25Speaker 1: start with thirty five year old Tabitha Chapman. She looks weak.
- 46:30Speaker 1: The other woman is the wife the paymaster that Chuck
- 46:34Speaker 1: Roberts told me about that would make the twenty dollar
- 46:37Speaker 1: at a clip deliveries. She ran the money side of
- 46:41Speaker 1: this drug ring. No, I would send her to jail
- 46:45Speaker 1: for life without parole. But there's six to pick from.
- 46:48Speaker 1: There's no no way I would let off the people
- 46:51Speaker 1: key in her murder. But if somebody would crack, you
- 46:55Speaker 1: only need one, You just need one, and all right,
- 47:00Speaker 1: Wendy one witness. You're right and your analysis is right
- 47:04Speaker 1: on the money too. You gotta look at each one individually,
- 47:06Speaker 1: their level of culpability, how likely it is they'll cooperate
- 47:10Speaker 1: with you, and what they can give you evidence wise.
- 47:13Speaker 1: You know, there's no sense flipping somebody that doesn't have
- 47:16Speaker 1: evidence powerful enough to help you make your case. All
- 47:19Speaker 1: you do is you're giving somebody a lighter sentence, but
- 47:21Speaker 1: you're not getting anything in return. That's the dance the
- 47:24Speaker 1: prosecutor is going to have to do with each of
- 47:26Speaker 1: these defense attorneys is how can they strategize a result
- 47:30Speaker 1: that's a win win as much as can be expected
- 47:33Speaker 1: under the circumstance. I would not take a cheap play
- 47:35Speaker 1: on this bunch. The husband would definitely go down for
- 47:40Speaker 1: life without parole. Sadly, there's no death penalty in New Jersey.
- 47:44Speaker 1: That was abolished by the governor. And I guess two
- 47:46Speaker 1: thousand seven, so I guess you can just kill as
- 47:49Speaker 1: many people as you want to in New Jersey and
- 47:51Speaker 1: you don't have to worry about the electric chair or
- 47:54Speaker 1: the needle. I am waiting for justice to unfold. And
- 47:58Speaker 1: this is another thing I learned Wendy, which she may
- 48:00Speaker 1: have experienced too. You know, when I first started prosecuting,
- 48:03Speaker 1: I thought, I'm gonna get the bad guy. I'm gonna
- 48:06Speaker 1: put him in jail. I'm going to fix this. This
- 48:09Speaker 1: is really fairly soon after my fiancee's murder, and somehow
- 48:16Speaker 1: by fixing other people's problems, it kind of helped me
- 48:19Speaker 1: fix mine. But it was really just a band aid
- 48:22Speaker 1: because every time I would get a conviction and a
- 48:26Speaker 1: jury would conn turn around, nobody was happy. Wendy, this
- 48:31Speaker 1: daughter is not going to be happy even if Kaufman
- 48:36Speaker 1: is convicted. She doesn't have her mother, Wendy. Yeah, you know,
- 48:40Speaker 1: there's a measure of closure that comes with with conviction
- 48:43Speaker 1: and with even with the rest, because she's been she's
- 48:46Speaker 1: known for years that he was guilty. Is her story,
- 48:49Speaker 1: but it doesn't bring him back. And you know, her
- 48:52Speaker 1: emotional words are touching their you know, they really are.
- 48:56Speaker 1: Hearts break with her as she recounts how she's been
- 48:59Speaker 1: waiting for years. But at the very least she has
- 49:03Speaker 1: the knowledge and the comfort of knowing that he didn't
- 49:06Speaker 1: get away with it. And Nancy, that is part of
- 49:09Speaker 1: the healing process is knowing. As I said earlier, Justice delayed,
- 49:13Speaker 1: has not been justice denied for her doesn't bring her
- 49:16Speaker 1: mom back, but does give her the comfort that her
- 49:19Speaker 1: stepfather didn't get away with it. He may have been
- 49:21Speaker 1: very comfortable in his practice, made a lot of money.
- 49:24Speaker 1: He's certainly not comfortable now in a jail cell. Tell
- 49:27Speaker 1: tell it, sister. Here's the thing. Another thing it does
- 49:34Speaker 1: a prosecution is it makes you know you're not alone,
- 49:40Speaker 1: that somebody cared enough to fight for you, to do
- 49:45Speaker 1: the right thing, to not give up. And in those
- 49:51Speaker 1: moments of despair, loneliness, grief, bereavement, that is the consolation
- 50:00Speaker 1: that somebody else cares enough to fight. I want you
- 50:05Speaker 1: to hear Kim back, her daughter. Have a lot of
- 50:09Speaker 1: mixed emotions inside. But I am going to the police, work,
- 50:13Speaker 1: to the prosecutor's office, UM and allow them to do
- 50:18Speaker 1: what they need to do without really speaking too much
- 50:21Speaker 1: or giving my opinion or interjecting, UM how I really feel. UM.
- 50:26Speaker 1: I just want them to do whatever it is in
- 50:29Speaker 1: their capacity that they need to do to get this
- 50:31Speaker 1: murder soft so that I can get my life UM
- 50:34Speaker 1: back and move on with my life and look up
- 50:37Speaker 1: to my mom and just say, Mom, I did everything
- 50:39Speaker 1: I could for you, um, but now it's time for
- 50:42Speaker 1: me to figure out what's next for my life. Nancy
- 50:46Speaker 1: Grace cried, stories sliding off, good Bye, frid