Latest / Ghost Cult Magazine Podcast / PODCAST: Episode 752 - Exploring "The Escapologist" - Don de Leaumont Interviews Jason Bieler

Transcript

PODCAST: Episode 752 - Exploring "The Escapologist" - Don de Leaumont Interviews Jason Bieler · Ghost Cult Magazine Podcast

• 0:00
  And a lot of the way I write is really just the way it's always
• 0:03
  been. Is like I hear a distant radio
• 0:05
  station in my head with songs playing and the process is I've
• 0:09
  got to get it all down like before the station goes off or
• 0:12
  changes Hey, this is Don with Ghost Cult Magazine and I'm here
• 0:22
  with the legendary, the talented, the video genic Jason
• 0:27
  Beeler from Jason Beeler and the Baron von Bielski Orchestra.
• 0:32
  So how? Are you my friend?
• 0:33
  You know, all things considered, in a apocalyptic world with an
• 0:37
  impending meteor strike, I I feel pretty good.
• 0:40
  I feel like I should have wore my shirt.
• 0:42
  I've got this shirt with dinosaurs on it that look that
• 0:45
  have a like a meteor coming and under it it says this is fine.
• 0:49
  Everything. It's OK, This is fine.
• 0:53
  Well, you know, it's interesting because, well, First off, am I
• 0:56
  referring to you as the Baron, like Mr. von Baron, like.
• 1:01
  Oh. No, no.
• 1:02
  You could refer to me as Jason. J Dog.
• 1:03
  OK, Jason's and that's. Good Jay Dizzle.
• 1:06
  Jada, I just wanted to make sure I was not overstepping
• 1:09
  boundaries of, you know, of royalty here, you know?
• 1:13
  We do know each other, you realize that, right?
• 1:14
  OK. So we're at that point in our
• 1:16
  relationship that, you know, work past that.
• 1:18
  OK, that's what I thought. I just, I just would like you to
• 1:21
  have no direct eye contact if that's OK.
• 1:23
  I'm not even looking at you good.
• 1:25
  I'm looking at that beautiful acoustic in the background, so.
• 1:29
  Thank you. See, I'm already ahead of you.
• 1:31
  I'm shopping right now so. Fair enough.
• 1:34
  So I got to tell you, man. So the reason why we're here
• 1:36
  obviously is for the new album, which was, I have to say, dude,
• 1:40
  Escapologist is. It blew my mind.
• 1:43
  I was not, I mean, this is not a cut down.
• 1:47
  I was not expecting to be blown away the way I was with this
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  album because it's almost like it's hitting on all kinds of
• 1:55
  levels. Like it's got the kind of hippie
• 1:57
  prog rock, like anthemic kind of stuff.
• 2:00
  It goes into dark modes. It goes into this kind of at
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  times this is kind of like uplifting melodic thing and it
• 2:08
  it it's I don't know it it to me, it feels like it's a it's
• 2:12
  like a dictation of the times. Is that kind of where you I?
• 2:15
  Mean from I don't consciously think like I, I, I, you know,
• 2:19
  just ask my wife. I don't think at all.
• 2:21
  But I think I do generally absorb everything that's going
• 2:26
  on around me. And then maybe it comes out in a
• 2:28
  way without me really thinking about it.
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  Like, I never sit down and go like, you know, this one's about
• 2:33
  social justice and this one is about the inequities of, you
• 2:37
  know, the patriarch. I mean, you know, I just don't
• 2:39
  think that way. And a lot of the way I write is
• 2:41
  really just the way it's always been is like, and I keep saying
• 2:44
  it over and over again, but it's, it's just like I hear a
• 2:47
  distant radio station in my head with songs playing.
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  And the process is I've got to get it all down like before the
• 2:54
  station goes off or changes channels.
• 2:57
  So, you know, 90% of it comes at like the in these kind of giant
• 3:00
  blocks of structure. And then I'll go back and I'll
• 3:03
  be like, I could maybe do the arrangement like this or I could
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  change this lyric doesn't really say what I wanted it to say, but
• 3:10
  that's always been my process really.
• 3:11
  I'm kind of as shocked when I look back on things like, oh,
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  that that happened like as anybody else's.
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  And see what I love about that too, is that because that kind
• 3:19
  of lends itself to the the creative process of what I
• 3:23
  consider to be some of my favorite musicians.
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  And even as a musician and a songwriter myself, I feel like
• 3:29
  the best things come unexpectedly.
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  Like they just come from like there's so many elements going
• 3:35
  on in the world or in, in in your room or, you know, in your
• 3:39
  diet or whatever, you know, that going to dictate some sort of a
• 3:42
  feeling or some sort of an emotion.
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  But with this material, you know, you know, and all due
• 3:49
  respect to your past rock combo, I feel like you've taken
• 3:54
  elements from that, which was definitely you, you know, like
• 3:58
  that was a very honest part of you.
• 4:00
  But you've brought it over, not ignoring it, but instead of
• 4:03
  trying to like run from it, you've like, OK, I'm just going
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  to add to this all the things that I wish I could have done.
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  Is that kind of a safe assumption to say that?
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  I mean, it is probably the end result.
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  It wasn't a conscious decision. I mean, you know, I kind of feel
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  like, and maybe, you know, I'm not the one to judge it, but I
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  mean, I've generally always been doing, you know, the same thing,
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  meaning that I've really never stayed really religious about
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  any genres or any kind of like thematic concept.
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  I just really kind of pursue wherever I wanted to go.
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  And maybe as time goes on and obviously a lifetime of
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  musicians and being around people and hearing more music
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  all the time, you know, hopefully, I mean, the the end
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  goal is that you get better or you expand your abilities or
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  you, you know, I mean, I could probably create more what's in
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  my head now than maybe I could have in my 20s.
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  But yeah, you know, it, it's been really interesting.
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  And I don't say this like as a cocky thing.
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  I mean, but it just feels like, especially with this record so
• 5:01
  far, that it's all coming back to this point where people are
• 5:04
  kind of like going, oh, this is really cool.
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  This guy doesn't, you know, it's there's no sense of rules and
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  the music's kind of all over the place, but it still has this
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  kind of theme running through it.
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  And like, and I feel like I was like, I've been doing this for
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  35. I've been doing the same damn
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  thing, You know, how many times do I have to bang my head in the
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  wall before someone pays attention, you know?
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  But it feels like it's all going in the right direction.
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  So it's super rewarding. I mean, especially, you know,
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  being in my late 20s now. Me too.
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  Yeah, exactly. Great.
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  I'm a little rough around the edges, but it's all right.
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  But as you know, like, you know, I mean, most people of of you
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  know, having a past, however it may be perceived or not, you
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  don't get a chance to reinvent yourself.
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  And specifically the Prague community, which is so funny
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  because I would say, you know, a good 75 to 80% of that base
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  doesn't even know what Saigon kick is or was.
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  It's like irrelevant to them. So it's kind of a really
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  fortunate thing to be at this point in your career and be
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  discovered again and not be necessarily it's an all those
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  people that were fans of Saigon Kick have kind of come along for
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  the ride and been really supportive and that's great.
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  But I've also gotten this opportunity to kind of be
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  rediscovered by a whole new group of people.
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  And that's just, I mean, I don't think you can ask for more than.
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  That I mean, that's actually a really rare thing to happen too,
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  especially when you've come from like you said, you were talking
• 6:22
  about Saigon Kick was that you know, and obviously I was a huge
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  fan, still am, but as I've gotten older, like, you know,
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  you love you, you love music for how it's made for the for the
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  musicality of it, the lyrical aspect of it, that how it makes
• 6:35
  you feel. And going into this album, when
• 6:39
  I was listening to it, one of the first things I thought was I
• 6:41
  was like, this sounds like one of the most cathartic creations
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  that I could think of. And along with that comes the
• 6:48
  cathartic feeling of listening to it.
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  So was was it a cathartic thing for you?
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  Because I mean, this just sounds like you.
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  You are so close to blowing up in your room and leaving a mess
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  basically. Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of
• 7:03
  stuff as we get older as life, you know, attacks you, so to
• 7:08
  speak, or, you know, you you just experience different things
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  and I think it's all in there at some point.
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  I mean, I didn't consciously feel, you know, like I'm not one
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  of those oh, I'm having mental health issue.
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  Think, you know, I mean, it wasn't that kind of situation
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  where I I felt stressed or Burton.
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  And I think maybe that's because I've always had this outlet.
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  So the pressure valve over the years has always been, you know,
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  being relieved. And I always get these things
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  out. But and it's and it's not
• 7:34
  something I really think about. So it's like funny, like my wife
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  will bring up like on the last record I had a song like, you
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  know, I bought a human head and placed it on my shelf.
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  Do I need to like start sleeping in a different room or like, is
• 7:44
  this something I should really be worried about?
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  Like, and I never really put it in that context of like, wow,
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  that must be really weird for her to read some of these, you
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  know, ideas or lyrics or something like that.
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  But yeah, I mean, I, I think no matter what you do, I think when
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  you experience the world where we, we live in, regardless of
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  where you are, I mean, it has to have an impact on you, unless
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  you're not, you know, conscious, I mean, and, and so I, I think
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  it's all in there somewhere. Loss, you know, pressures, life,
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  escape, all that kind of stuff. That's why I really love the
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  Escapeologist because I think in some way, I mean, it's a title
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  because in some way I think everybody is looking for that
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  kind of like escape of, you know, whether it's work, whether
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  it's pressure, whether it's relationships, whether it's
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  losing loved ones, whether it's, you know, any myriad of
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  situations. I think it's, and I think some
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  of those are thematically woven throughout the record and
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  resonate have has resonated with some people and that's really,
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  really a cool thing. I mean, I think that, you know,
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  of course, us being in our 20s, you know, in the same generation
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  here, you know, in all honesty, the music that we grew up with,
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  at least for me, was rooted in escapism.
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  You know, like when I listened to Dio, Iron Maiden, whatever.
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  Like I listened to this band's not just because I loved them,
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  but because they could kind of pull me from this place where I
• 9:04
  was like, I hate school, I hate being a kid, but Oh my God,
• 9:08
  Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner all of a sudden, you know?
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  And so that was what I was so drawn to with the title of this
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  album because the concept of the whole thing and not so much that
• 9:18
  it felt conceptual, but that the concept of it was literally just
• 9:22
  going someplace else where everything was just, you know, I
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  mean, come on, man, let you. Let's be incredible.
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  Let's take some edibles. Who doesn't want to do that?
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  You know, I mean, that's like the ultimate, like, Oh my God,
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  let's get out of here for a bit. Yeah.
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  I mean, I think ultimately that's what we look to any kind
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  of entertainment, whether it's a movie, a book of music.
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  I mean, I think that at its highest place in our lives, I
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  mean, that's what it does. I mean, I, I think, you know,
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  you know, you, you go home after issues or troubles or stress or
• 9:53
  even, you know, and you sit and you put on Netflix to turn the
• 9:58
  world off for 1/2 hour or two hours or whatever that may be,
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  you know, and especially in today's world, I feel like, you
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  know, those moments of escapism, whatever they are, have proven
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  more valuable than ever. You know, I think, you know,
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  it's, it's just needed to like, dude, I can't, I can't sit in
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  this chaos 24/7. And just, you know, I, I want to
• 10:19
  go watch something really stupid.
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  You know, I want, I want to sit and have 1/2 hour of Cobra Kai.
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  You know, it's, it's, you know, which I mean, and no disrespect
• 10:28
  to the creator, it's the worst, best show of all time.
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  It's, it's just because you know, it, it, it, it's a but but
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  but but you know, at the at its at its best.
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  It it it, it makes you leave the world for 1/2 hour and that's
• 10:42
  the whole point. I mean, that's the thing too is
• 10:44
  exact. I love that you hit that on the
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  head because any kind of entertainment is like, to me,
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  that's the that's the point of it is the kind of, you know,
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  transition out of like some sort of a reality.
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  I mean, it's it's OK to have music that's socially conscious
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  and that reminds you of what's going on in the world.
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  But sometimes you don't want to like, you know, it's going to be
• 11:03
  there when you get back. So even if it's for an hour,
• 11:07
  let's say that was like when I was listening to to this album,
• 11:10
  The thing that got me more than anything was that by the time it
• 11:13
  was over, like I was going in for a second listen because I
• 11:17
  liked where it had taken me, you know, and it was just such a
• 11:21
  great and to kind of go back a little bit.
• 11:23
  Like you were talking about like, you know, you've obviously
• 11:25
  been in the industry for a long time, you know, with, you know,
• 11:28
  Saigon Kick, you were on a label, you had management, this,
• 11:31
  that and the other lot of lot of restraint, a lot of like
• 11:35
  compounding stress on things like, you know, putting out an
• 11:38
  album, getting out of, you know, you know, hitting a release
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  date, hitting a deadline, doing this album.
• 11:43
  This album is so like entailed and there's so many just complex
• 11:48
  levels and layers of music that make it this incredible
• 11:52
  orchestra kind of sound. Does not having that pressure
• 11:55
  make it easier for you to do this?
• 11:58
  And does it also complicate the process as well?
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  I mean, I've been really lucky because I mean, I, I, I am a
• 12:05
  huge fan of listening to some of my contemporaries complain about
• 12:07
  the music industry and you know, all their, their, their fallings
• 12:11
  out with the labels And, and I didn't have that.
• 12:14
  I mean, you know, you know, my guy, you know, at the time was
• 12:17
  Jason Flom at Atlantic. And, and I just remember him,
• 12:20
  you know, coming over to my house and going like, dude, I
• 12:21
  have no idea what the hell you're doing.
• 12:23
  Seriously. Like, so just do it.
• 12:25
  You know, he encouraged me to produce the the Lizard record.
• 12:29
  He was like, I don't know, either you're going to blow it
• 12:32
  up miserably and the whole thing will come to an end or it'll
• 12:35
  work. I mean, and go do it.
• 12:36
  So I mean, I think I'm probably all too comfortable with just
• 12:40
  taking a leap of faith. Every single doesn't bother me.
• 12:42
  Like I don't, I'm making music I'm not doing, I'm not operating
• 12:45
  on someone's brain, you know what I mean?
• 12:47
  It's like at the end of the day, life will go on if I don't get
• 12:51
  it just perfectly right. And sometimes I think even if
• 12:54
  you are getting things right, it just takes time.
• 12:56
  I was just talking to somebody else about what a huge fan of
• 12:58
  Opath I've become. But the shame of me is that, you
• 13:02
  know, I've been hearing that name for 20 years and never
• 13:05
  listened, not because I was against it.
• 13:07
  I was just like, it just didn't our lives didn't intersect, you
• 13:10
  know, that way until, you know, the in a cow.
• 13:14
  I can't even say the name of the the record before this last one.
• 13:16
  And I was like, Oh my, they're brilliant.
• 13:17
  I love them. You know, so sometimes you can
• 13:19
  be doing the right thing for a long time and, you know, it just
• 13:22
  takes repeated doing what you do and kind of, you know, planting
• 13:26
  your flag and saying here's what I do.
• 13:27
  And eventually, hopefully over time, I would like it to happen
• 13:31
  before I die. I don't want to be one of those
• 13:33
  artists 200 years from now celebrated as a genius.
• 13:36
  I'd prefer, you know, a, a, a modicum of, you know, ego driven
• 13:41
  success in the lifetime. But yeah, I mean, I think it's
• 13:46
  just, you know, again, I never wanted to be a rock star.
• 13:48
  I mean, it's always great to have a successful record.
• 13:50
  It's always great to have. But I mean, it never I I'd be
• 13:52
  doing the same thing regardless. I mean, I, you know, so hey,
• 13:56
  I've been lucky in that sense. I've never really felt pressure.
• 13:59
  The only thing I mean, like, I know I just want to keep getting
• 14:02
  better. And that doesn't mean bigger
• 14:04
  because that's out of your control, but better.
• 14:07
  Like I want to be able to know that I at the end of this record
• 14:09
  of going into, I'm already, you know, halfway through the next
• 14:11
  record. But I'm like, you know, how do I
• 14:13
  get better? What can I do better to have a
• 14:16
  you know what, what did I learn from this last record that will
• 14:19
  help me maybe say something in a more impactful way or, you know,
• 14:24
  do you know, structure and melody better or harmony better
• 14:27
  or, you know, that that's just where my head's at.
• 14:29
  So those are the only pressures other than that, especially now
• 14:31
  because I've just taken it all, it's all been done by us in
• 14:34
  house. And I don't mean it in a bad
• 14:36
  way, but I just don't care about that.
• 14:38
  Like, you know, this is not about a obviously I really care
• 14:42
  that I'm getting tons of support from people and this record's
• 14:44
  doing well, but I don't change anything to get that to happen.
• 14:48
  It feels like hopefully over time, you know, you do what you
• 14:51
  do long enough and you know, the commercial crowds or whatever,
• 14:55
  we're kind of slowly move in your direction and it starts to
• 14:58
  make sense to more and more people.
• 14:59
  Hopefully, you know, and that's, that says so much too about
• 15:02
  where you're at. Because I feel like sometimes,
• 15:05
  again, I know I said this a little earlier, but I feel like
• 15:07
  sometimes when you have musicians who are kind of like
• 15:10
  going into a second phase or a third phase or whatever it is of
• 15:13
  their careers. A lot of times they try to run
• 15:16
  so far away from what they did in the past or how they did it.
• 15:20
  It almost kind of gets lost along the way.
• 15:23
  And then at least for me, I feel like you start to kind of suffer
• 15:26
  a little bit. So the fact that you've kind of
• 15:28
  taking these elements that were the positive factors into what
• 15:32
  you did before, still apply them to what you're doing now, and
• 15:35
  then continuing to grow on them. What was that a conversation you
• 15:38
  ever had to have with yourself about something like this?
• 15:40
  Or did you just think like this is just natural how I should do?
• 15:44
  It I mean, I, I think I'm going to just again, not to keep going
• 15:47
  me and my uniqueness. I'm in a unique situation
• 15:50
  though, because I mean, the people that have embraced these
• 15:53
  records and have supported me, you know, they, they want a plot
• 15:57
  twist. They want it, You know, if I
• 15:59
  made a straight kind of record of regardless of the quality of
• 16:02
  the song, if I made a record that was all the Industrious
• 16:04
  song or All Stars Collide or something like that, if I made a
• 16:08
  record that was all of that, I think I would instantaneously
• 16:11
  lose my base because they want to have Industrious and then
• 16:16
  they want me to do an ambient poker song, you know, not
• 16:20
  because of a we look at me what I can do, but because of a they
• 16:24
  they're in this amusement ride to be, to be, you know, to be
• 16:28
  slightly uncomfortable and brought to new places and then
• 16:31
  have oh, OK, I know this. I feel good about, oh, where are
• 16:34
  we going? Where are we going?
• 16:35
  Oh, OK, but here's I, I, you know, I think that's what the,
• 16:39
  at least from the feedback I've received is that's what's made
• 16:41
  it unique. But for example, you know, one
• 16:44
  of the greatest rock'n'roll bands of all time, ACDC doesn't
• 16:47
  have that freedom. They're brilliant.
• 16:49
  But if ACDC did a Meshuga record, everybody would be like,
• 16:53
  what the hell are you doing? Like, I mean, it's, you ruined
• 16:56
  the, you know, you go to that restaurant, for lack of a better
• 16:59
  word, because that's the way you want that slice of pizza.
• 17:02
  You know, they the only restaurant that doesn't like
• 17:05
  that and that's what you want. And I'm kind of like one of
• 17:07
  those weird bougie Los Angeles. You never know what you can get
• 17:11
  a cheeseburger one minute or like, you know, you know, a Nobu
• 17:15
  esque, you know, 70 course dining experience the next and
• 17:19
  you know, you never know what you're going to get and, and
• 17:21
  some people are really into that.
• 17:23
  That's so interesting how you said that because it's it's this
• 17:25
  idea of not settling, this idea of not settling and having this
• 17:29
  this concept of being able to do what you want to expand on what
• 17:33
  you want, but also playing it to an audience that that expects
• 17:37
  that or or not only expects it, but anticipates it and welcomes
• 17:41
  it. Like like, like the idea that
• 17:43
  you were talking about, like do it like, like doing like a polka
• 17:45
  jam or whatever. Or, you know, I don't know.
• 17:47
  I still have ACDC doing them as sugar album now.
• 17:50
  I can't get this out of my head it.
• 17:51
  Would be great. I don't know, I'm trying to hear
• 17:53
  thunderstruck done like you know that.
• 17:55
  But anyway, follow their interview.
• 17:57
  But you know, the the recording aspect, the presentation, just
• 18:02
  listening to it, the layer upon layer upon layer, like it is so
• 18:06
  mixed insanely good with the horns and things and the
• 18:10
  panning. At what point do you just go,
• 18:14
  OK, I have to stop because this is getting so much fun.
• 18:17
  But like, like what is that point to you when you're like,
• 18:19
  OK, I know I have to be done with this because this could.
• 18:23
  Be Chinese, Yeah. I mean, I think with anything,
• 18:25
  even writing, you know, a book or I mean, I think you hit this
• 18:29
  arc of like, it's getting better, it's getting better,
• 18:32
  it's getting better. Oh, I think I get it's worse,
• 18:35
  it's worse, it's worse, it's worse.
• 18:37
  Oh my God, I ruined it, you know, so, so the, the key is to
• 18:39
  jump off at the apex if possible.
• 18:42
  And I mean, in fairness, I don't think people I want to make
• 18:45
  records that you can put on a headphone if you are a fan of
• 18:48
  sitting by yourself in a candlelit room and put the
• 18:51
  headphones on and, and you have the lifestyle that'll afford you
• 18:54
  the ability to listen for 45 minutes without being
• 18:56
  interrupted. And you want to hear these
• 18:59
  things going on, great. But not to alienate people who
• 19:02
  want to listen to a song or two, you know, and and most people
• 19:07
  don't do the deep dive like that, but I enjoy it.
• 19:10
  So it's in there. But yeah, I mean, I, I work a
• 19:13
  lot faster. I think especially now with
• 19:15
  technology and, you know, being able to work computer driven,
• 19:18
  everything's so fast and everything's instantly
• 19:20
  recallable. And in the box specifically, you
• 19:25
  know, I can jump from like orchestral mix on one thing
• 19:29
  into, oh, I forgot a banjo part on this song.
• 19:31
  And I it, it, it enables me to go back and forth really
• 19:34
  quickly. And so I'm never really in one
• 19:36
  spot too long because, you know, I, I, I, I don't, I wouldn't say
• 19:39
  I have ADHD, but, you know, oh, I'll spend 15 minutes.
• 19:44
  Let me treat. Oh, you know what?
• 19:45
  I forgot about the snare drum on that way.
• 19:46
  And then and I can work like that really comfortably.
• 19:48
  And so, yeah, I mean, you know, I don't think you ever know
• 19:51
  what's done. I mean, maybe you just get, you
• 19:54
  know, frustrating like, that's it.
• 19:56
  I'm moving on. I can't can't keep doing this.
• 19:59
  I also feel like it's one of those things that for some
• 20:01
  reason, you just know, you just know when it's done.
• 20:03
  It's this weird intuitive thing, right?
• 20:05
  Like where you're just, you're working, you're working, you're
• 20:07
  working, you're going. OK, I think this is it, you
• 20:09
  know? And I feel like once you say
• 20:11
  that, then you've kind of hinted to yourself, OK, let's move on.
• 20:14
  But then all of a sudden you'll be like, oh, wait, you know what
• 20:17
  sounded cool in that one, right? A double snare like.
• 20:20
  In this section. And then you go back and you do
• 20:23
  that and then you realize you ruined the mix somehow and then
• 20:25
  you got to start all over again. It's a never ending struggle.
• 20:29
  But I think ultimately and what I always hope is the focus and
• 20:33
  what I try to focus on, the only, you know, if I'm going to
• 20:35
  hold one thing semi sacred is song.
• 20:39
  You know, the song has got to be in there.
• 20:41
  You know, if you have a good song, it it becomes a lot easier
• 20:46
  because a good song is going to cover a lot of disasters, other
• 20:50
  mistakes you can make. You know, a great song is a
• 20:52
  great song. So yeah, you can mix it better
• 20:55
  or you could do this better. But generally it's gonna, you
• 20:57
  know, take you a lot of the way and, and, and make up for a lot
• 21:00
  of what you may not do otherwise.
• 21:01
  If you have a shit song, you still can't mix your way out of
• 21:04
  it. But you can be slightly forgiven
• 21:07
  or tolerable if you make it at least sound really good or
• 21:09
  interesting. People are like, I didn't hate
• 21:11
  that. So I guess you can work your way
• 21:12
  through that. But yeah, to me, I mean, I hope
• 21:14
  that all the songs are strong and.
• 21:16
  That was The thing is that the strength of the songs like to me
• 21:19
  like individually and, and sequence wise, you know, I, I
• 21:22
  mean, the, the reason why I never had kids was because I
• 21:25
  wanted to listen to music uninterrupted.
• 21:27
  So hey, you know, I mean like or, and play music
• 21:30
  uninterrupted. And so I do have that luxury of
• 21:34
  sitting in my chair up here in my studio and putting on a vinyl
• 21:38
  and listening from start to finish with the idea that this
• 21:41
  is coming out on vinyl. Like how?
• 21:43
  How does that make you feel going into that as a listening
• 21:46
  experience for somebody else? Like for the listener itself, if
• 21:49
  that makes. Sense, you know, the vinyl thing
• 21:52
  has only pleased me in the sense that I enjoyed aesthetically
• 21:55
  picking up a piece of vinyl. I don't listen to vinyl, not
• 21:59
  that I regret to anybody who loves that experience.
• 22:00
  I think there is something beautifully nostalgic about
• 22:03
  putting a vinyl on a record and listening to it like that.
• 22:05
  But I spent my whole life trying to digest as much music as
• 22:09
  possible. So the ability that we've been
• 22:12
  given to have the entire world of all recorded, known music in
• 22:15
  my hand with me everywhere I go is the gift that I just can
• 22:19
  never get. I, I just feel it's so
• 22:21
  disrespectful. It's like, no thanks, Mr. Ford,
• 22:24
  I'm going to ride this horse to California, but I invented a,
• 22:28
  there's a, now we have a plane. You can take a plane.
• 22:30
  No, I feel like a horse is, is warmer, you know, it feels more
• 22:34
  organic. You know, it's so that's my
• 22:37
  perspective on it. But you know what?
• 22:38
  And, and The funny thing is, I mean, most people I talk to
• 22:40
  support and buy the vinyl, you know, maybe 10% of them actually
• 22:43
  ever open it. It's really more about, oh, I
• 22:46
  can look at the liner notes and it's, it's, it's, it's the thing
• 22:48
  of when we were kids when used to be able to do that.
• 22:51
  So yeah, I appreciate the form factor, but for me, I mean, you
• 22:57
  know, and I've been doing this my whole life.
• 22:58
  I mean, I, I, I just hate the MP3, the bit rate.
• 23:02
  I'm like, shut up, just put your air pods on and listen to music.
• 23:06
  It's like. That's so interesting you say
• 23:08
  that because like I am by I am so far from being an audiophile
• 23:12
  like that, you know, I do love listening to my vinyl, but for
• 23:16
  the main reason of the fact that I feel like when you listen,
• 23:18
  like you have to commit, you know, like, you know, because if
• 23:21
  I put on a record and I go and get a drink and go to the
• 23:24
  bathroom, come back like I'm on the last song on side 1.
• 23:27
  So you really got to commit. So to me, that's how I kind of
• 23:29
  get in that meditative mode to listen.
• 23:32
  But I love hearing from an old school buddy like this that you
• 23:36
  feel the same way. Because to me, like the music is
• 23:40
  the music it's going to be listened to.
• 23:42
  Like I don't care about it being a low bit rate or lossless or
• 23:46
  that it's the first pressing of a record or modern.
• 23:49
  Like to me it's music, it's, it's absorbed, it does its
• 23:53
  thing. I, I, I don't care.
• 23:55
  You know, I, I, I learned my biggest audiophile lesson when
• 23:59
  we had the actual physical studio and I had an Eve console.
• 24:03
  It's a wonderful old console. And the guy that used to work on
• 24:06
  it for us was this, you know, for lack of a better term, like
• 24:09
  a Scottish hooligan who flew over from the UK once a year and
• 24:14
  would work on this console. And he happened to be there
• 24:17
  working on the console because as an analog console,
• 24:20
  something's always popping, breaking, whatever.
• 24:22
  He's working on the console. And some guy came in to try to
• 24:24
  sell us fiber optic speaker case, some kind of fiber optic
• 24:28
  high end, like $1000 an inch, you know, cable to run from the
• 24:34
  power amp to the thing. And whether he was a little
• 24:36
  sauced up over lunch or where the, the, the, the, the Neve guy
• 24:40
  was just like, you know, what the fuck are you talking about?
• 24:43
  He goes, this whole console is wired with the cheapest phone
• 24:46
  cable I could find. Like that's how we built them.
• 24:49
  There's like 800 miles of like literally the cheapest, like
• 24:53
  cabling. Then what are you talking about?
• 24:55
  Putting a fiber optic cable between the thing?
• 24:57
  You're an idiot. And I was like, you know, got a
• 25:00
  point? I mean, if it if it, if it ain't
• 25:02
  broke, don't fix it, right? If it's, if it's turning out the
• 25:05
  quality of music that you like, I mean, because at the end of
• 25:08
  the day, you have to be happy with it more than anybody
• 25:11
  because you're putting this out into the world, right?
• 25:14
  So if you're listening to it and you're going sounds good to me.
• 25:17
  Just I mean, you're putting it. Out, you know, you live in a
• 25:20
  world where I I, I always think I'm sure things could be better.
• 25:23
  And, you know, as we move forward here, there's nothing
• 25:25
  I'd like to do more than I mean, I've had the pleasure of working
• 25:27
  with Bob Clear Mountain, you know, Jack Joseph Puig and, you
• 25:31
  know, Tom Lord algae and these legendary mixers and they're
• 25:34
  brilliant. And it'd be great to build this
• 25:36
  project to the point where on certain things we can
• 25:39
  collaborate on stuff. I mean, there's no doubt.
• 25:40
  I don't do it in the sense of no one else could do it the way I
• 25:45
  do it or anything like that. I mean, we'll see where the
• 25:47
  future goes. But ultimately, I still think,
• 25:50
  regardless of who's involved, I mean it, it just comes down to
• 25:53
  the song. And that goes back to not the
• 25:55
  name drop. But I mean, I, I had the
• 25:56
  opportunity to work with Amit Ergen, you know, Atlantic at,
• 25:59
  you know, being a couple meetings with him kind of his
• 26:02
  last days at Atlantic. And I remember sitting there and
• 26:04
  he's just like, people were talking about marketing in this
• 26:06
  pants. And if you wore that lighting
• 26:08
  and he did and you had these and he was just like, you know, it
• 26:11
  always has been or always ultimately will be the songs.
• 26:14
  If the songs are good. Then something will work if it's
• 26:17
  you know you can't market your way out of a you know, or mix
• 26:20
  your way out of a bad zone. Because I mean, in game wise
• 26:23
  too, that's what's going to be left.
• 26:24
  You know, when you have when you have a legacy of music, like
• 26:27
  that's what's going to be left behind for people to hear.
• 26:29
  And so the song has to be good, the music has to be good.
• 26:32
  And the music also has to be of a quality that you feel like,
• 26:35
  OK, I feel good leaving this behind for people to find.
• 26:38
  I, you know, to be honest with you, I mean, I don't care.
• 26:41
  I mean, you know, I, I mean, I kind of look at life very, you
• 26:46
  know, I'm here now and I'm doing it now and I'm pretty sure
• 26:50
  unless anything gets changed, anything comes on, change my
• 26:53
  mind, you know, I'm going to be dead and really be very unaware
• 26:57
  of what the hell is going on in the world.
• 26:59
  So what happens after that? I'll let them deal with it.
• 27:02
  I, you know, I just want to enjoy what I'm doing now, make
• 27:04
  as much music as I can, be creative, be around some
• 27:07
  amazingly talented musicians. And whatever happens after that
• 27:09
  is, you know, not my concern. Well, so I guess the the final
• 27:13
  question going into the end is that the obvious question, like
• 27:15
  is there talks of a tour? Like could you see assembling a
• 27:18
  band like this? Because I mean, obviously I know
• 27:21
  it can be done, but this is going to be quite something to
• 27:24
  assemble into a live setting. Is this something that we'll get
• 27:27
  to see? Yeah, we've kind of built it
• 27:29
  completely backwards. This is our third record without
• 27:32
  ever doing a show, really. We did 1 appearance at a Prague
• 27:35
  Power Festival in Atlanta because Glenn's awesome, but
• 27:40
  that wasn't even really a full band thing as much as it was
• 27:42
  like, would you come do it? And I was like, yeah, I love
• 27:44
  Glenn and all those people were awesome.
• 27:46
  So but yeah, we're looking at doing some dates, you know,
• 27:50
  hopefully towards the end of the year.
• 27:52
  I mean, we wanted to build it to the point where, like you just
• 27:54
  said, it's worthy of getting the musicians I want to get.
• 27:57
  And, you know, not that I care about being a larger band, but,
• 28:01
  you know, to sustain it, doing shows will be a larger thing
• 28:05
  than me just showing up with a backpack and an acoustic guitar.
• 28:07
  So I had to build, build it. And fortunately, it is building.
• 28:11
  I mean, it's the biggest we've been yet, which is a good thing.
• 28:13
  I mean, and that's, you know, hopefully towards the end of the
• 28:17
  year we'll start to do a bunch of shows.
• 28:18
  I love that because, and I guess my other question was talk about
• 28:21
  assembling a band. I don't know if you've worked
• 28:23
  with Jordan Rudis yet from Dream Theater.
• 28:25
  Have not. If you guys did something
• 28:27
  together that would be like dividing by zero.
• 28:29
  Seriously. Like the world would not be able
• 28:31
  to handle. Ultimate respect for those guys.
• 28:35
  I've never really I've, you know, become acquaintances,
• 28:39
  loose acquaintances. I don't write with Mike Portnoy
• 28:43
  through Jeff Scott Soto mostly, and obviously those guys have
• 28:47
  done great things. And you know, I mean, that's
• 28:49
  been the whole the whole buzz about doing these records,
• 28:52
  whether it's the last records or this rate is just, you know,
• 28:55
  getting to work with, you know, your Marco Miniman or getting to
• 28:58
  work with, you know, Clay Cook or getting to work with Butch
• 29:02
  Walker or Bumblefoot or Devon Towns in there.
• 29:05
  You know, that's been the whole that's the whole point of this
• 29:07
  with the way this structure is, is to get to work with all these
• 29:10
  amazing musicians and kind of bring them into my little
• 29:13
  ecosystem. And that's been the most fun
• 29:16
  I've ever had, you know, because I'm sure it's fun for them too,
• 29:19
  because we're not in a band together.
• 29:20
  So they don't learn. They don't learn to hate me
• 29:22
  because we haven't been together long enough.
• 29:24
  You won't be together long enough for them to, well, I
• 29:28
  mean, I guess, and I guess for the last thing, the most obvious
• 29:31
  question is, is because a lot of people like to know this stuff
• 29:34
  about musicians, is that would you ever see transition like
• 29:37
  translating some of the older Saigon material into something
• 29:41
  like this setting? Or do you kind of look at this
• 29:44
  as like, this is its own thing? Like I've done that.
• 29:46
  I really tried and not because I am not super appreciative and
• 29:50
  don't value or it has nothing to do with that.
• 29:52
  It's not even an ego thing. It should.
• 29:54
  I think this is like we were talking about when we started.
• 29:56
  It's built its own world and it's not dependent on that.
• 30:01
  And, you know, I feel like even if we were to do live shows, to
• 30:04
  a certain extent, 10 or 20% of the crowd would even understand
• 30:07
  what the hell is happening. If I played a Saigon kick song
• 30:10
  at a, at a, at a, you know, Baron von Bielski orchestra
• 30:12
  show, they'd be like, what the hell is he doing that for?
• 30:14
  Most people would be like, you know, what, what is that?
• 30:17
  And that's a good place to be. And and I, you know, I mean,
• 30:20
  Saigon kick is its own, I always say it's like it's its own
• 30:23
  Indian burial ground of curses and haunts and disasters and
• 30:27
  plagues and apocalyptic scenarios.
• 30:30
  And we'll do, you know, things that with that when it, I think
• 30:33
  that should be that. You know, I mean, if we're going
• 30:35
  to get together, what do we do with some kind of incarnation
• 30:37
  of, you know, me or me and Jeff or Soto or, you know, any hybrid
• 30:42
  kind of version to celebrate some stuff.
• 30:44
  We did two shows last year to celebrate the water record,
• 30:46
  which is kind of fun in Chicago and Tampa.
• 30:49
  But yeah, I mean, it's not something that I want to, you
• 30:52
  know, it's just not in the front of my mind at the moment.
• 30:56
  I'm lucky enough to be in a situation where that's the case.
• 30:59
  I think that's fantastic. I think that's a great outlook
• 31:01
  on that because again, yeah, I love the fact that you've got
• 31:04
  enough new fans now and people who are appreciating your music
• 31:07
  for what it is now that they're not even really aware or even
• 31:10
  too concerned. Yeah, I get more of the emails
• 31:14
  for every e-mail I get of like, oh, I followed you since Saigon
• 31:16
  Cake. This is amazing.
• 31:17
  Just found out you're doing new stuff.
• 31:19
  Has been the opposite of like, holy shit, you were in Saigon
• 31:22
  Cake, you know, and then followed up, followed up by
• 31:26
  something horrible, like, yeah, you were my mom's favorite band,
• 31:28
  you know, something like that. I was conceived to one of your
• 31:32
  songs like, no, let's not do that.
• 31:36
  Well, Jason, thank you so much man, for.
• 31:38
  Taking. Oh man, always a pleasure dude.
• 31:39
  This and like. Good luck with the.
• 31:42
  It is taking all, it's taking all of my willpower not to go to
• 31:45
  the couch and start tickling your dog's feet.
• 31:47
  Ozzie Possbourne, ladies and gentlemen, that's his name.
• 31:50
  He would love it. By the way, We, we, we have very
• 31:53
  similar beards. So he would very much be like,
• 31:55
  you know, on your lap. So I'm all about everything.
• 31:57
  Everyone's around seeing the leg go kind of like and I'm like.
• 32:02
  Well dude, best of luck with everything and good luck with
• 32:05
  the album and hopefully a tour and we'll hear some stuff about
• 32:07
  it and the folks over here at Ghost Cult will get you all
• 32:11
  squared away and let everyone know what's going on.
• 32:13
  I can't thank you enough, as always, and don't be a stranger.