Latest / Business Roundtable / Exploring Boundaries in the Workplace - Part 2

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Exploring Boundaries in the Workplace - Part 2 · Business Roundtable

0:02
All right, here we are back at the business Roundtable with returning guests.
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We may have even some surprise guests coming and joining us here later in the
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podcast. But back to due to popular demand, we're going to pick up
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on an episode that we had a couple episodes back where we were talking about
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boundaries with Bill and Charlie and now we've got doc c back with us.
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And so just to introduce for those of you that are catching this episode or
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maybe watching it for the first time on YouTube or seeing a LinkedIn event,
0:35
we'll do a brief introductions. My name is David Carr Stewart Your Business where
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I help business owners and their team come together to accomplish great things and focus
0:45
on overall organizational health. We have Bill Hatch back. Welcome Bill, thank
0:51
you, and you are another podcast extraordinary. What are you working on now,
0:57
Bill? Well, actually, speaking of I was going to talk about
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it as as part of the boundaries, I've been having some boundary issues with
1:07
my podcast. All right, so yeah, so it will be a great
1:11
example for during the show. But I'm in the process of writing my book
1:17
series on leadership and I podcast under the banner of Bald Spots Productions. We're
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looking forward to hearing more about the book and of course your your recent experience
1:29
on Boundaries. We have Charlie Chenn back with us. Charlie, welcome back.
1:34
Thank you. It's always great to be back. David, thank you
1:36
for having me me back. I'm representing Spiky Hair Productions over here full Hawk
1:49
watch the video here. Yeah, and then when you said good to have
1:57
Phill hatch back, I was I was for a second there, I was
2:00
thinking, you're talking about uh, Bill's favorite car like a Hatchback. So
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really yeah, yeah, Uh. Did you want to introduce yourself just briefly,
2:14
what you're who you're with in your background? Briefly, Charlie perfect.
2:17
Yeah. So my name is Charlie chan for the older folks, almost like
2:22
the detective Charlie chan off by one letter, and I work in cybersecurity.
2:28
I try to do stand up comedy in the cybersecurity awareness trainings that I do,
2:32
but it's not going very well so but I'm gonna stick with my day
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job in cybersecurity. You're glad you're here, thank you. Yeah. So,
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Uh, my role there uh in Tellis is chief Experience Officer, where
2:46
we're committed to delivering peace of mind, all while doing it with world class
2:53
customer service and experience, so you don't have to put up with rude I
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T people. There you go and docs back. We're so glad to have
3:05
you. Well, thank you always a pleasure, Kurts Stockrin. Here we
3:10
are mergers acquisition company, but we do more than that. We actually not
3:16
only build companies financially, but within their company culture to actually prepare for an
3:25
excess strategy if indeed that comes, and it can of course be an excess
3:30
strategy or they acquire another business as well. So that's kind of what we
3:35
do and it kind of aligns to what our topic is today. Absolutely,
3:39
So we're going to do a little recap, so those of you that missed
3:44
the episode please go back episode twenty seven. I believe we're actually on episode
3:49
twenty nine, if you guys can believe that, we're moving right along.
3:53
Yeah, pretty exciting. So I'll start with you, Charlie, and then
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maybe come back around with you Bill, because Charlie was the one actually that
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planted the seed of this discussion of boundaries, and just briefly we're going to
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get more into how we deal and now implement them. But what just boundaries
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in general, Charlie, briefly, you know we talked about as a recap
4:13
from last episode. Yeah, absolutely, so they're essential and thanks for bringing
4:19
us back. But it sounds like it's going to be by popular demand.
4:23
But so, boundaries are essential because they helped create a clear understanding of roles
4:30
and responsibilities. It prevents misunderstandings and ensures that everybody feels respected and valued in
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the workplace. They also protect our time, energy and allowing us to be
4:46
more productive and maintain a healthy work life balance. Yeah, absolutely, Bill,
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Just you know, any other thoughts as we're getting in forward of just
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what a boundary is, why we need that, why is it vital?
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Well, what a boundary is is is a line in the sand, if
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you will, between between where others are and where you are, defining what's
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okay for people to approach you with and what's not okay, you know,
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such as such as last minute demands or needs you know, or or needs
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that take you over your time, Like like if you have plans with your
5:32
family to go to the ballgame or something, then that's something you have to
5:38
protect. You have to protect your your time with your family, and so
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you set up a boundary and and like Charlie said, they're important for all
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manner of reasons, everything from work life balance to productivity. Yeah. Well,
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I'm excited to get into these, especially with Doc c here, because
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sometimes there are clear, clear written boundaries, and sometimes there's boundaries that it's
6:02
not so clear. They're kind of invisible boundaries and we're like, I didn't
6:05
know I crossed a boundary, right, So this is going to get really
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into some practical nuts and bolts here in this episode about how you can make
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sure that these boundaries are number one, that's clearly established and number two they're
6:18
implemented well, and how do you do how you deal with them when they
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are violated, like you said, Bill or Charlie. So, Curtis,
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any other thoughts here just on this first thought as we're getting kind of the
6:30
lay in the groundwork here for boundaries. Yeah, you know, I think
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look Bill and Charlie hit it, and Charlie said it really you know,
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protecting time and energy, and time and energy is what it's all about.
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And you kind of if you protect the time and energy, you know the
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company is going to grow even faster. So I think that both of them
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hit on both time and energy. I like it, so I'll open this
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up. Is the next kind of topic then, so we've kind of got
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things. Is okay, we're agreeing that boundaries are necessary, they're very helpful,
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but how do we effectively communicate these boundaries with each other? You know?
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And so we're not we're all agreeing that boundaries are good, and may
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I'll just come to you Charlie first, if you don't mind here, But
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how do we you know, effectively? You know, how can leaders,
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whether you're a business owner or a leader, you've got people underneath you,
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how do you effectively make sure that the boundaries are established and understood and respected?
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To start with? Absolutely, So first, it's crucial to recognize your
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own limits and communicate them clearly to your colleagues and supervisors. Oftentimes it's hard
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for people to do that, especially of their operation from toxic change, where
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they believe they are less than human, so therefore they have to be more
8:07
than human to prove their worth. And that's a dangerous place to be because
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then you wind up putting yourself in a situation where you're over promising and under
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delivering, and that actually gives you the adverse effect of what your intention is,
8:24
which is to deliver a great experience and to actually do a good job.
8:30
And so using tools like calendar blocking to manage your time effectively and ensure
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that you have dedicated time for breaks and personal tasks. Also, don't be
8:41
afraid to say no when necessary, right, but do it respectfully and offer
8:48
alternative solutions when possible. Because our customers are counting on us. Our clients,
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they're counting on us to help solve their issues. So what's not our
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fault is still our problem. So if we can't do something all for what
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we can do, don't just shut it down and don't say, oh,
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that's that's your boundary, like you got to go figure out that's There's definitely
9:11
ways of communicating where it's not off putting like that. Yeah, well,
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and you you've even alluded to some things that you can practically do. There
9:20
you will, we'll have a little deeper on the implementation. But come do
9:24
you bill for a minute here? But you know, so how do we
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know or how do somebody know that they're they you know, like you said,
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they've crossed the line or not. So how do you establish it?
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What? What are the boundaries what are the you know what what what are
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the ways that you can help communicate that here is a boundary to an individual
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in your organization or in your life. Right, well, you do need
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to use some some tact and uh and decorum as as Charlie alluded to.
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You can't just necessarily drop it on somebody's lap of hey, get out of
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my get out of my space kind of a thing. I mean, sometimes
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it comes down to that. Sometimes there's no other choice. But you know,
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if you can establish those boundaries up front before before they before they become
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an issue that you have to just be flat out and and and tactless with,
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you know, setting it up in in the employee handbook or for the
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major stuff, you know, doing things like like blocking out in your calendar.
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I have I have my calendar set up to automatically put in blocks of
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time around other appointments and so that so that there's always time to recover from
10:50
a call or or an appointment with someone. It'll always put another fifteen minutes
10:56
after the appointment, so it goes from three to three thirty. My calendar
11:01
is blocked out till three forty five, and that helps take care of any
11:03
overages from the appointment and also gives me a few minutes to recover from from
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whatever it was I just did, you know, but be blocking out the
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calendar for for special events, things that you you know, you gotta go.
11:20
You gotta go to the soccer game, to your to your kid's soccer
11:24
gang, so you put that in the calendar, you know. But but
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yeah, then as far as as far as non time related boundaries, you
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really just have to make sure people know about these. You know, have
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a have a you know, as part of a team meeting where people can
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talk about where all people can talk about their their personal boundaries in space and
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you can discuss how the how company function can can work around those boundaries.
11:56
Or if those boundaries happen to be unreasonable or untenable for whatever reason, then
12:03
you have an opportunity to discuss those in the group and figure out a solution.
12:09
Yeah. I'll come to you, Curtis in a moment here, because
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I think you brought up a good point, Bill, Because my boundary may
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conflict with a different boundary, may have overlapping boundaries, or some things like
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that. So I think it's important when you effectively communicate that you're not doing
12:24
an isolation and just saying like, well this is my boundary. You're like,
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well, there's a there's or there's a gap here, So now what
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do we do? You know? This is you know, my responsibilities end
12:35
here and then there's somebody else's So that's where my boundary is. And so
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you have to you know, I think it's important that you effectively communicate these
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I almost think of as as you know, a law or if you don't
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mean so much as a law, but if you pass a law or you
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pass something and nobody knows about it, how do you and you're guilty of
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it? How do you know? It's like I didn't even know I was
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guilty of violating the said law or or or our boundaries? So uh doxy
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you know, what's your what's what's advice that you can give to leaders in
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in in communicating this to the team, whether it's in a group or one
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on one, whether it's in writing, what what's your what's your advice and
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guidance there? Right, I'll tell you what I what I use, And
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it's extremely effective is because of course you're talking to boundaries, you're talking to
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really systems that they need to be in place. But what I tell them
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is that look at the United States of America. We have we have such
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a split. We have Republicans, we have Democrats, we have independent whatever.
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But but written in there is is the best system or boundaries or document
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that allows this country to grow. And what is it. It's the Constitution.
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And the Constitution has amendments. And what that really means. What I
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try to bring to the table in developing a culture, or at least these
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boundaries you speak of, is that you have to have a system in place
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or systems in place of a company that will allow your your people to not
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only grow, but to understand these boundaries or even the laws that you even
14:30
mentioned that that will impact the company in a negative way. You want it
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to be in the positive way. And I use that as an example,
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because you have Republicans, you have Democrats, you have I don't know why,
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you know, you of course don't want politics in the business. But
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they by when you throw that the Constitution out there, they then begin to
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understand. If they read the Constitution, they understand what I'm talking about.
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When you develop these these systems or boundaries, if you will, as Bill
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and Charlie mentioned then they understand. Oh, I kind of get it because
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I'm a Republican, but you're a Democrat. I get it. Okay.
15:18
Usually that's the approach I take, and it's actually helped build companies culture for
15:24
sure. I think that's a great that's a great observation. I would I
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guess you trigger to me, dox as you're talking about that the constitutions,
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they don't have to be long, but you know, it doesn't have to
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be long and drawn out. I would say in there there are are are
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stated Also, I would say, look at your your values. Hopefully you
15:43
guys have stated values, right, And we've talked about mission and vision and
15:46
company culture too, right, so these should all be in alignment, right,
15:48
And we've talked about previous episodes there about company culture. Yeah, and
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you know the idea is amendment, so you you can, as your company
16:02
grows, you may have to have an amendment to what you have. And
16:06
that's really I mean like prohibition back in the day, you couldn't drink alcohol,
16:11
but we it was an amendment. So I mean that's the beauty of
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a document and a constitution, and and and of course a company's constitution that
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you are you are allowing yourselves to grow and make amendments to those boundaries if
16:30
you will. Yeah. Absolutely, And I think that's a good point.
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And we're going to get into implementing boundaries here or we've got another guest in
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jumping in Heather with us, has been on a couple of past episodes,
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so we'll let her get settled in here. But yeah, boundaries obviously can
16:48
shift to right. They're not rigid, and so as as we shift,
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like you said, that's a great analogy of amendments. It was started one
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way and now we've adjusted based on values and understanding about how we're going to
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show up as an organization. So that's a great lead in into you know
17:07
where Bill and Charlie you've already hit on a little bit, and I want
17:11
to go a little deeper in this is how do we implement boundaries? What
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are the practical steps that we can do? And you guys mentioned some of
17:21
them, the time bound ones, but you know, recognizing like again,
17:27
I like the I think of the laws. Okay, we have laws,
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then how do you actually implement a law? Right? It's one thing to
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write a law, it's one thing to say here's the boundary is another thing
17:34
to actually implement it and make sure it's successful. So maybe I'll start with
17:40
you, Charlie to think about this, and you mentioned against some of these
17:42
things, but you know what are some other thoughts here on practical implementation,
17:48
especially after Doctors the has shared some insights there. Yeah, I like the
17:53
constitution analogy because that's how you dictate well, I don't like to use word
18:00
dictate, right, but like that's how you, that's that's how you.
18:04
That's that's how you get everyone on the same page. Right with actually having
18:11
a document that's not just sitting somewhere in the ether or a lofty quote that's
18:18
up on the on your wall that nobody lives by. We actually so internally,
18:26
what we've done is we created a document called the Intellis's Way and it
18:30
starts out with our our mission and our action statement. So our mission is
18:37
to influence those we touch so that they can reach their goals. And our
18:42
action statement is always delivered well. And so these are things that we're touching
18:48
on every day twice a day in our in our daily huddles, and we
18:53
go over what does well feel like we have it defined? We have are
18:59
never in all ways list, so that's almost like our boundary right there.
19:03
We will always we will never do these things or say these things, and
19:07
we will always do or say these things instead. So that way we have
19:12
a a brand promise that we can count on that we know, like that
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guideline of how we want to show up where we want to come from in
19:22
every interaction, as opposed to leaving it up to chance. How about you
19:30
bill thoughts here on implementation. Yeah, well, there's a there's a couple
19:36
of things I do really like, uh Doxy's analogy of using the Constitution because
19:42
it brings up something that we might not have thought of, and that's unintended
19:48
consequences of writing these things down. The US Constitution was written to make the
19:57
the Congress as the House of Representatives in the US Senate, to be uh
20:04
to be the most powerful branch. That's why it's so detailed. And the
20:10
president was supposed to be the least powerful. That's why it's the least detail.
20:15
However, the unintended consequence was that it was just that it has effectively
20:19
become just the opposite because because there's not a lot of definition to the role
20:26
of president, the president then became commander in chief of the of the military
20:33
was able, you know, Thomas Jefferson was able to double the size of
20:37
the country with the purchase of Louisiana, and uh and a whole bunch of
20:41
other things. And Congress had its hands tied because there were definitions for these
20:48
things. And uh so you have to realize that when you write, you
20:52
have to be careful when you write down your boundaries, your your all of
20:56
your your your values and whatnot, because because there can be unintended consequences,
21:06
you might be writing yourself into a corner. So so be careful when you
21:10
are writing those things down and think about what could be, not just what
21:15
you want to be. Yeah, but uh yeah, go ahead. I
21:19
was just gonna say, I think that that's a great observation Bill, And
21:23
having worked with different organizations, I've worked with nonprofits, I've worked with for
21:29
profits into that to to that point, there's there's these yeah, written unintended
21:34
consequences that boundaries or limitations that or and and and so I understanding that,
21:41
I guess the question I have for a bill and for all of you guys,
21:42
is that, Okay, you know, how how can we be more
21:47
intentional in there or you know, get people to talk about these things,
21:51
recognize these limitations or changes, and then say, okay, what do we
21:53
need to do to get consensus now? If you know, some of them
21:56
may be easier, other ones that might be a little harder to to make
22:00
and to change those things. Even if you can change it, you can
22:04
write it down change. But people's hearts and minds are fixed on certain ways,
22:08
and you're like, hey, are we actually agreeing to move on this
22:12
bill? What's been your experience there? Well? One of the one of
22:19
the controls you can have over the unintended consequences the misinterpretations is by consulting with
22:29
the group, the the you know, sometimes groupthink is really bad, but
22:36
but getting distinct opinions and uh, you know and uh and guidance from the
22:42
individuals and the group can be a great help and uh. And you can
22:49
also use outside documentation to to see how other organizations have dealt with this.
22:57
You can also you can also ask people like the like the crew here,
23:03
you reach out to us and uh and say, what's the what's the possibilities
23:07
of of this? What? Uh you know, is this a good thing
23:12
or not? And Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, Doxy. I want to
23:18
come to you too, because one of the episodes that we did not too
23:22
long ago, we talked about the UH roles and transitions in the company and
23:27
things like that, and so you know, I know you deal with us
23:30
a lot ocually in your E four process of it, you know, And
23:33
how do we help people again, especially where they're stepping into new roles understand
23:38
where where are there boundaries where do they need to stay within their confines of
23:42
their role or responsibility and and not not stepping into somebody else's and vice versa.
23:51
How how are ways we can can again properly implement these these boundaries.
23:56
Well, it's interesting when we talk about we're talking about boundaries and I really
24:02
don't know how many boundaries that there are. And by the way, each
24:07
company the boundaries are different. One boundary might have you know, one company
24:15
might have the boundary of physical boundaries more it impacts them more so than may
24:22
be emotional boundaries or whatever. This is why when when I get into companies
24:30
and we start talking about their culture and and and even boundaries, what we
24:37
go to our systems and I and I always harp on systems because systems will
24:45
help with the boundaries once you once you understand how the system works, especially
24:52
when it comes to something that's financial or material for example, you know,
24:57
employees that want to move up into the company, you know, from one
25:02
level to the next. You know, if you understand the system on how
25:07
that works, then you really don't Well it's not that you don't need the
25:11
boundary, but at least you understand how that works. So that's why I
25:17
always when I when I work with companies, I we talk about systems and
25:22
how the systems play out, which is connected really to the boundaries that you're
25:26
talking about. But again, as I said earlier, you know seconds ago,
25:32
is you know how many boundaries are there? I don't know. There's
25:37
there's a variety of them, and and some for companies are you know,
25:42
larger than others as far as impact. So it's a great question. I
25:47
mean, the boundaries what we're talking about is great, and I think don't
25:51
mention it is that people are listening to this call and reach out to us,
25:56
because I guarantee you we've been down that path of UH dealing with different
26:03
companies. We worked with different companies, we builped different companies and and help
26:07
them grow. And and really that's what you want to do, is how
26:11
do you take a company and how do you grow the company? Because that's
26:15
what everybody wants. Everybody wants uh success or you know, they want they
26:22
want to feel important within the company. And and how do you do that?
26:26
I think that's a good question. Yeah, well, and and you
26:30
absolutely And that's why we're having this podcast too, because as those are listening
26:33
that you're if you're having dysfunction because you feel people boundaries are being violated,
26:38
they're not feeling appreciated, they're feeling disconnected. You're not going to grow your
26:41
company. Absolutely, Doxy, you're you, and we're trying to help you
26:45
untangle that. And and so yes, like reach out to Bill Doxy,
26:51
Charlie, any one of us would happily discuss us with you. And I
26:53
want to I want to touch on your your idea of systems. Doxy.
26:57
I'll give you an example that I had in my career where I went from
27:00
the private sector to the public sector and one that I didn't want to realize.
27:04
There was a way that we were reviewed, for example, resumes and
27:07
people that would come into in the private company. It was just a completely
27:11
different system and process than the public sector and how candidates were reviewed. I
27:17
didn't know that when I came in, and so I appolated the understanding how
27:22
we're communicating and we're to look at that, and you know, with a
27:25
shock to my system because the way I was doing it in the previous company
27:27
was totally fine. It was just the way we looked at it, the
27:30
way we discussed it, the way we processed it. It was very different
27:33
in the public sector. Now. It wasn't written. It wasn't completely clear
27:37
to me until somebody came and told me, like, oh, well,
27:40
we don't do it that way. I'm like, okay, I didn't.
27:41
I didn't understand. I didn't know. So it wasn't It wasn't because they
27:47
weren't mad at me per se. But it just helped me understand that,
27:51
you know, this is not this is not the way you know we do
27:56
that. We got Heather back with us, so Heather were glad you you
28:00
made it how real quick David? What I was gonna what I also wanted
28:07
to just kind of pigback and add what we're saying is that you know,
28:11
our boundaries are changing. Boundaries of nineteen eighty are different than there are now.
28:18
I mean, they're going to continue to change with technology and intelligence.
28:23
I mean, it's fascinating what I've seen in the past thirty years, how
28:30
companies have grown in the boundaries issue, how they come up and that's why
28:36
the system. Probably Charlie likes this too tech because he's a tech guy,
28:42
but I think that because of technology systems, everybody starts to understand what that
28:48
really means. And it's AI and it's all those things. But it's really
28:56
fascinating. I just love how things are are changing rapidly as we as we
29:03
speak. Absolutely well, I'm gonna come to Charlie and I'm gonna come to
29:07
Heather because I think that's a great point Charlie, because I want to get
29:11
Heather's input on implementing as well. But Charlie, just to your to the
29:15
point of systems, because you're you're you're vary system like cybersecurity in these things,
29:18
and you know very clearly if a boundary or system is crossed, and
29:23
we're going to get into that in a minute, so our net we're going
29:26
to talk about violating and boundaries, but just talk about this idea of systems
29:30
and how that how that how Yeah into that. Yeah. When I hear
29:37
the words system, I I hear I to us, it's synonymous with process
29:42
and so uh. And one of my idols in business is Marcus Lamonas from
29:49
the show on CNBC The Profit Right. So he always talks about people,
29:55
process and product. Oftentimes we do a I guess we put a lot of
30:02
time to find the right people and make sure they're in the right seat on
30:04
the bus. We have a good product, a good solution for the marketplace
30:08
that the market demands, but then there's breakdowns and processes, and so that's
30:15
what I hear when Doxy says system, I want to take it one step
30:21
further. That ties all three of those together. The people, process,
30:25
and product is culture. At the end of the day, no matter what
30:30
type of business we're in, whether it's business and business, business, consumer,
30:34
it's human to human. So a lot of the breakdowns and violation of
30:41
boundaries is because we as human beings, we all operate slightly differently in terms
30:48
of our are natural tendencies and so we actually as part of our onboarding is
30:53
we have each of our staff members take a one hundred and forty four question.
31:00
It's called a example, it's a personality test. It's by the Neogram
31:07
Institute, and so there's nine different personality types and so by having some insight
31:12
on how like how they tend to react or respond to different situations, it
31:19
gives us a better idea of how to effectively communicate with somebody and what are
31:25
some hot buttons or or red flags for certain personality types that you know that
31:30
they wound up being. And so that way we can we can demonstrate more
31:37
compassion and empathy when dealing with the different personality types. Because what may be
31:44
completely like commonplace between me and you, David, but if somebody else is
31:51
a different personality type, they're going to take way like they're going to take
31:55
offense to that. So we need to have that awareness to begin with,
32:00
and have that culture of having the interests in the differences in people and learning
32:06
about it and being empathetic to that, so that way we can put our
32:13
best foot forward and being respectful of how somebody tends to operate. Yeah,
32:20
yeah, well I think that's going to be a good lead in here into
32:22
our topic of how we handle boundary violations and communicating that. But Heather,
32:29
welcome, Heather back. She's been on our podcast a couple of different times,
32:32
and thanks for joining in, Heather. But you know, in your
32:37
experience, Heather, how have you seen successful implementation of healthy boundaries, particularly
32:44
in the workplace, But it could be outside of that, you know,
32:45
So that we're all all winning together hopefully right, and I think that it's
32:53
beautiful that we're talking about this. Thank you, David. I first of
33:00
all, Charlie, mister chun, I love what you talked about with understanding
33:04
the personalities and how we perceive things. I too, am part of a
33:08
program called Powerality, and we've got eight personality types. At any rate,
33:16
I am as you know, David, and I'm one of those people.
33:20
I hate rules, I hate boundaries, I hate restrictions, I hate being
33:27
told what to do. I mean, if you know, I'm a fly
33:30
by your seat kind of girl. And the reality is we have those people
33:36
in our businesses, don't we. So the challenge for people like me is
33:42
that you have to respect and honor that those boundaries are necessary and that those
33:47
healthy boundaries will ship moving along fairly smoothly. When you don't set clear boundaries
33:57
and people are uncertain of where they stand and what they're doing and how things
34:00
are supposed to be. They cannot effectively do their jobs right. And that
34:07
is probably one of the biggest failures I've had in the different business businesses that
34:12
I've had. Don't get me wrong, I call it a modicum of success
34:17
in business, probably slightly higher than that, just because you know, I
34:22
do have a brain and I understand that my temperament isn't necessarily always conducive to
34:30
what the ways she needs. And so I think it's important we're talking about
34:35
boundaries and understanding the boundaries and implementing them. Is that clear communication is essential.
34:43
And if like me, you are a leader who tends to fly by
34:46
the seat of our pants, it's really important to take the time ahead of
34:51
time and make sure you're prepared and know what it is that you really want,
34:54
what the goal is, what the target is where you're all working towards.
34:59
Because you're a team leader, and if you don't set those boundaries and
35:05
give them the expectations, how could they possibly honor that and or achieve those
35:12
things? Right? Because we it as our job to create a successful possibility,
35:19
right, so we want all of our employees to have great success just
35:22
as much as we have success. I've talked before about a win win win
35:25
situation, right, you win, I went and together we all win.
35:30
With all those boundaries, you absolutely have to do it. And so for
35:34
me, the key to implementing those boundaries having the time meeting with the people
35:40
as a group, and I even recommend individually, especially understanding that each person
35:45
is their own person, their own key person. What makes them tick may
35:53
not be what makes the group tick. Whatever you as a leader is of
35:57
the group, that's going to be the leadership style. But you've got to
36:02
tap into who and what they are, where they tick, what they're going
36:07
to excel at, and that clear communication is the only way and that is
36:13
the only way to implement boundaries. And I think that boundaries fall in line
36:16
with the expectations, the guidelines, the direction that we're going and all of
36:22
that. And I know i've jumped in lace go ahead and stopped there.
36:25
Yeah, absolutely no, So yeah, and that's that's great. And I
36:30
want to get a little bit more into that, Heather, because the kind
36:32
of the last topic here as we're you know, and I want to cover
36:37
this evening on our podcast is really you know, we've talked about effectively communicating
36:42
them. How do we implement them a bit here and then you know what
36:45
happens. Ultimately, it's going to happen. There's going to be a violation,
36:49
There's somebody's going to cross the line, Okay, going to come Bill,
36:52
right, yeah, yeah, contuences? How do we deal with that?
36:54
So, Bill, I'm gonna I mean, this is a tough one,
36:57
but how do we deal with this in a thoughtful and just to Heather
37:00
and Charlie talked a little bit about knowing yourself and how you might be different
37:05
in communicating another with another person. So, Bill, what's been your experience
37:09
with this? My recent experience with this is with my roundtable show not quite
37:16
after midnight and I had three no shows in as many weeks of broadcasts.
37:27
I do one a week, so this was three for three and it was
37:31
really frustrating. I mean, it didn't ruin the show because I still had
37:35
a second guest who came on the show. But I realized after three weeks
37:40
of this that I needed to do something. Now I had said now,
37:45
I had asked everyone who signed up to be professionals and keep their appointments,
37:52
assuming that that would would be enough, and of course we know what happens
37:58
when you assume and uh you know. So so what I did was I
38:05
well, a and to to do to say something that I haven't said that
38:09
I didn't say to the group, uh to to to the people and who
38:15
were signed up for the show. This was all related to one person,
38:20
one agent and her and her clients. And uh so you know, I
38:29
got my email list out and I constructed an email saying, you know,
38:35
saying this is what's happened. I did not call out anybody. I did
38:40
not say this was the result of one person or three people or anything like
38:45
that. I just said there were three no shows for three shows, and
38:51
and uh and this has to stop. I said, I'm sorry to do
38:55
this, but here's the new policy. Because while I did say, you
39:00
know, hey, this is the boundary, I didn't say this is the
39:04
policy. These are the consequences. And now there are there is a policy.
39:09
This is what happens. If you don't follow the policy, you'll get
39:14
canceled if and you run the risk of me taking you off the email lists
39:19
and not being able to be welcome on the show anymore. And you know,
39:25
I got a lot of responses A lot of supportive responses and you know,
39:30
and all to it, and certainly several understanding ones, if not supportive
39:37
that you know, Hey, I understand that you gotta do what you gotta
39:40
do. But I made a reasonable policy. I told them this is when
39:45
it's going to go into effect. I'd said three shows from now was plenty
39:49
of time for people to get used to this new policy. I'll probably send
39:52
out another email in a couple of weeks to to remind them, Hey,
39:58
remember this is going to go into effects on this date. And uh,
40:04
uh, you know, and and it's so far, so good. It
40:08
seems to be working out, you know. One of uh, one of
40:15
the people actually responded, oh, by the way, one of my clients
40:19
isn't going to be able to make it on such and such date. Can
40:23
you reschedule him? And so I'm like, well, this is how how
40:25
rescheduling works. I'll go ahead and cancel him. It's okay, it's in
40:30
plenty of time. I'm not upset, you know. And uh, and
40:34
I put out an announcement, Hey, there's an open date, and within
40:37
like two minutes somebody had signed up to fill the date. But it's because
40:40
I had like two weeks until this person's uh, this person's date. There
40:45
was plenty of time too to take care of the issue. And so really
40:52
that's a that's a very fresh example of what happened and and how how I've
40:58
taken care of it. That's great, Bill, and what I heard,
41:00
and I want to come to you, doc, see, but I heard
41:02
you. You you addressed it. You you had a process that you outlined
41:07
of how this is going to go forward. So you really were clear on
41:10
you know, what your expectations were, you got by heard, you got
41:15
buy in as well from everybody's understanding what you were saying. So there,
41:17
you know, so it was it was a two way communication that you sent
41:22
it out, you got confirmation back. So to me, it sounds like
41:27
that was effective and you're starting to see the positive response coming from that.
41:30
Yeah. Uh, Doc thoughts on on this, this concept of boundary violations
41:38
and how to handle them. Yeah, that's an excellent example of what Bill
41:45
was even talking about. I mean, even for companies, you know,
41:50
you set boundaries, expectations, and you monitor them and of course you're going
41:58
to have to you're gonna have to amend, you're gonna have to change them.
42:01
But Ultimately, you give you give your people a chance to learn and
42:08
grow. If you do that, I think, I think your company grows.
42:15
I really do it. You know, we're all going to make the
42:17
stakes. We're emotional beings and and sometimes we don't like certain rules and certain
42:27
you know, things that are expectations. And I'm progressing the young lady.
42:30
That's really laughing because that's really you know, that's it, and and it's
42:38
personalities and it's all of these things. But I think that Bill hit it.
42:43
You know, you set the boundaries, you set the expectations, and
42:46
then you monitor and then after you after that happens, If something happens,
42:51
you get, you change. But ultimately you try to develop a culture,
42:57
as Charlie mentioned, a culture in which you can't each individual can grow,
43:04
learn and grow. I mean that would be my ten cents. Yeah,
43:07
absolutely so Heather, you're you're chuckling in there a little bit and sty plighting.
43:15
My goodness. All right, Hey, we got we got Curtis in
43:20
the light earlier, you know, time of year. He was like in
43:22
the Witness Protection program in earlier episodes. By the way, I fixed that
43:27
because now I finally got my drapes that come down so great, but I
43:32
got those in so yeah, yeah we can we can see you. We're
43:37
not getting blocked out. So Heather, how about this? You know how
43:42
in the light and part of me is in the dark, so you better.
43:45
Yeah right, But Heather, how do you how do you how do
43:52
you have help? What's healthy? How do we health? You know,
43:54
show this up healthy? Bill gave us an example. But you know,
43:58
from your perspective, from your experience, when you have a violation of a
44:00
boundary, uh, you know, And there's I think there's different kinds.
44:05
There's there's kinds that were unintentional like I mentioned earlier, where I didn't realize,
44:08
and there's the people that are willfully and that those are two different discussions.
44:13
I'll let you pick which one you want to go on, Heather.
44:15
But there's those other people that willfully are going to violate it and like I
44:17
don't care about your boundary, I'm going to violate it. And there's the
44:20
people that are, Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize. Let me back
44:22
up and understand where the boundary is. So Heather, either one of those
44:28
will you know? Where do you you know? What's your take there?
44:32
I have to say, I really resonate with what Doc C said. And
44:37
you know, I guess it looks like doctor C is doc C okay with
44:40
you. You're all going to get a nickname. Just accept it the boundary
44:49
and I need to know that. You know, the reality is, rules
44:57
are important when you do need them. It doesn't matter how much you love
45:00
them or dislike them. Rules are a necessity. Like you said, we
45:06
are fallible, we are humans, we are emotional beings. It's possible for
45:10
us to just totally miss the mark or blow it. We all have done
45:15
that, right, And I like the fact that you talk about that that
45:19
needs to be a learning moment, right, I think too, especially when
45:23
you're talking about someone who's a little more challenging, possibly deliberately pushing those boundaries,
45:30
deliberately crossing the line. While there does indeed need to be consensus,
45:36
I think it's still all a learning opportunity. And with that, I mean
45:45
understanding that some people are just not made that way, but they if they're
45:51
going to fit in and get the job done and be rewarded for doing job
45:57
well done, they need to understand these guide lines and they need to fall
46:00
within them. So I think when it comes to consequences for me. They
46:06
tend to be varying. So I see either way as a learning opportunity.
46:12
Now, of course, you can come to a point of impass with you
46:15
have someone who's just literally not going to do what you want them to do.
46:20
Well, as a business owner, I can't afford to pay you and
46:24
not do your job, especially as a small business owner, because I need
46:30
to have time to work all the business. I can't spend all my time
46:34
working in the business. Okay. So that's the reason that these bodies,
46:38
these guidelines are in place. There are certain things that are okay, there
46:44
are certain things that are always in the gray area, right, But the
46:47
bottom line, there also some things that just absolutely cross the line and they
46:52
will not be tolerated. Whether or not you take that as a learning spot
46:55
or not, it still needs to be explained that this will not be tolerated.
47:00
I don't do a one, two, three strike. You're out now.
47:05
You need to understand this is where you're at. You need to decide
47:07
you want to be part of the team or not. That's it. I'm
47:12
doing that. My personality doesn't like that. I want everyone to love me,
47:16
okay, but that just isn't realistic if you're going to be a good,
47:22
solid business owner, business manager, owning your direction that you want life,
47:30
right, that's just the way it's got to be. I'll stop there,
47:32
David. Yeah, No, it's so important. We're gonna and in
47:37
fact, I think this is probably a good stopic because I mean we're going
47:38
to come back. There's a whole I think, a whole another deeper episode
47:42
here, just on how do we deal with the violations of these boundaries and
47:45
rules and dealing with consequences and things like that. But really great input there,
47:51
Heather, as we're just you know, as we're kind of thinking about
47:53
these things and in the in boundaries and why we have them, how how
47:58
the how to effectively commut unicate them as expectations, how do we effectively implement
48:02
them? As we talked about this episode, I'll come back to you Bill
48:06
for kind of just final thoughts and we'll come back around here for this as
48:09
we wrap up this episode. But Bill, just kind of final thoughts or
48:12
takeaways, uh that we've discussed today. Well, I think, uh,
48:17
I think what I've learned with my recent experience is that there needs to be
48:27
consequence a policy and a consequence to go along with those boundaries. Just having
48:34
the boundary is like having well, not to get into politics, but having
48:38
a US Mexico border without without any any supervision on it, anybody will walk
48:46
over it who wants to and uh. And if you don't have a consequence
48:52
and a policy to enforce that boundary, then then you're just gonna get walked
48:59
all over to h Yeah, thanks Bill, glad having you here, Charlie.
49:05
Final thoughts as we're wrapping it up here. Yeah, I think final
49:08
thoughts. When it comes to boundaries, you want to separate it or take
49:14
the morality out of it. There's no you know, good or bad,
49:17
right and wrong when it comes to boundaries. It's just we're all different,
49:22
we're all wired differently, and the goal is not perfection, it's progress,
49:27
right, So just having the courage to be imperfect that it's going to allow
49:34
you to navigate it because like Doc C said, we're all human, we
49:37
have we're prone to our emotions and so we're not gonna always get it right.
49:43
It's not about getting it right, it's about just having the courage to
49:46
continue to progress. And at the end of the day, we're going to
49:52
have difficult people that we're going to deal with, whether it be internal or
49:54
external. So it's just making sure that we just focus on what we can
50:00
control. So that's the boundary as well that we set internally that we're not
50:07
gonna we can't control what other people think, what they say, how they
50:10
react, and you know, or things outside like the economy or the politics
50:19
policymakers. We just focus on what we have control over, period and so
50:24
that's the boundary that we set for ourselves and stop obsessing over things that we
50:30
have no influence over. Thank you Charlie for sharing that for sure your input
50:37
Tonight, doc C find the thoughts as we're wrapping up the episode. Yeah,
50:42
I love that, Charlie. I like that. You know, it's
50:45
interesting these boundaries, you know, these boundaries really have kind of helped me,
50:52
is speaking personally, think outside of my own box when I when my
51:00
boundaries are pushed, so to speak, because of the way I'm thinking.
51:05
Ever since I was a kid, I can remember that I see these other
51:10
boundaries issues pop up and it makes me actually, well, wait a minute
51:16
before I say that that's not a good thing. Maybe I should open up
51:22
my box. So I'm not saying that all boundary issues are negative because they
51:30
can actually help yourself grow. So I think that that you just kind of
51:37
kind of like what Harda mentioned just now, is that these things help us,
51:44
help us expand ourselves. So I think that I think it's a good
51:49
thing sometimes. Yeah, I liked her, and I really liked your analogies
51:53
and about the Constitution and amendments and being able to we can address boundaries,
52:00
you know, we can pull them in, we can expand them out,
52:02
just aligne. So I think that's that's a good thing. And I really
52:07
like that perspective, doxy of like, hey, let me just evaluate is
52:10
this is this good and healthy? Is this getting me where I want to
52:14
be? Maybe? Or maybe not? And I really appreciate that absolutely,
52:17
Heather, as they're wrapping up last thoughts here, all right, I love
52:24
I love what everybody said. I'm just not going to try to reiterate it
52:28
because I know we're closing up here, but I like, I think you're
52:34
going to kind of end on that note of boundaries aren't necessarily good or bad,
52:39
they just are right when you work within the boundaries, there's so much
52:47
success that can come with it. Right, boundaries aren't necessarily about what you
52:52
can't do as you As you mentioned Doxy, boundaries are about understanding and applying
53:00
those things again which you can control they are, and understanding who who's working
53:07
for us. So you know, you have a little bit of insight as
53:10
to who I am. Can you imagine having been my employer in the early
53:14
days, because I tend to believe that boundaries were made to be pushed,
53:21
you know, this is just kind of who I am. When we were
53:25
I spent some time in Finland. I spent three months in Finland, and
53:30
I was very young. I was eighteen. I graduated high school and went
53:34
to Finland. I took a tour up to Lapland, and on that tour
53:39
we came right up against the Russian border. And I understand we're talking years
53:45
ago. It was still communist communist Russia, okay, and we were born.
53:50
Do not even put a finger over that fence line because people have been
53:54
shot for that. Okay. Now, that is a dire consequence for someone
54:01
who's pushing a boundary. Right now, I'm not gonna lie. It spoke
54:07
to me, I got really long and heard several times about trying it,
54:12
you know, but reactive that boundary and that expectation was put in place to
54:16
keep me alive, literally alive. Right, So maybe our boundaries within the
54:24
work place that we're talking about are not so dire, but there is a
54:30
reason for them, and they should be a productive reason. I'm going to
54:34
end on that, Yes, absolutely, And if you need help, and
54:37
if you're feeling struck or you're struggling with boundaries, or you're like these are
54:40
not right or they're off, or we just need to even tweak them a
54:44
little bit, contact Heather, Charlie Doxy myself. You'll leave a comment in
54:50
here. We do follow up on the comments. We make sure that this
54:53
podcast is available in multiple forms, so whether you're listening to it, watching
54:59
it on YouTube, checking us out on LinkedIn, we would love to connect
55:01
with you guys and hear from you. We actually invite. There's other future
55:06
guests coming on here as well, so we like to have other voices.
55:07
So we're glad to have Heather back, We've got Charlie returning and doc cy
55:12
uh. And so if there's something you guys are listening to or you haven't
55:15
heard, you're like, i'd really got you guys to cover this topic,
55:19
please let us know. I just want to say thank you Charlie and doc
55:22
Cy Heather for coming back and engaging this and this really thoughtful conversation. Bill
55:29
had to jump off as well, so we're grateful for Bill and just thank
55:31
you guys, and we'll be back again soon. So until then, an
55:36
amazing, amazing night. Thanks real meeting you, Heather, Miss Wheeler. Bye,