Latest / Rise Up Media / Player-First, Not VC-First: Iceyyy’s Case for Better Crypto Games | Ep 56🍻🌗

Transcript

Player-First, Not VC-First: Iceyyy’s Case for Better Crypto Games | Ep 56🍻🌗 · Rise Up Media

• 0:01
  Alex: Good now, revolutionaries, and welcome to Rise Up After Dark.
• 0:08
  Iceyyy: Oh I like that.
• 0:13
  Alex: Right.
• 0:14
  Alex: Shout out to Keith for a killer morning show jingle and after dark jingle and market watch jingle.
• 0:22
  Alex: He is the chief jingle officer at Rise Up Media, and we appreciate it every single time.
• 0:28
  Alex: Shout out Keith such a banger.
• 0:30
  Alex: Alright, well, obviously, we're here tonight with Icy.
• 0:35
  Alex: Icy, it's been it's been a minute.
• 0:38
  Alex: And I'm really excited to have you back tonight, especially because everyone else on my team has abandoned me to do this by myself.
• 0:45
  Alex: So I was like, okay, well, I simply can't do that.
• 0:48
  Alex: Last time I did it was uh was the morning show the other day, and I pretty much just complained the entire time.
• 0:52
  Iceyyy: Where's William, man?
• 0:53
  Iceyyy: He's in my city.
• 0:54
  Iceyyy: I'll I'll go I'll go hunt him down, dude.
• 0:56
  Alex: Well, he's not in your city right now, he's in Japan uh on vacation.
• 1:00
  Alex: He's been there for about a week and a half, he's rounding out his trip, and then uh he'll be back next week.
• 1:06
  Alex: But uh yeah, so he's he's having the time of his life over there.
• 1:09
  Alex: What's up in Malaysia?
• 1:11
  Iceyyy: I see his I see his uh videos, man.
• 1:13
  Iceyyy: He's yeah, he's gotta be loving life right now.
• 1:17
  Alex: Oh yeah.
• 1:17
  Alex: He was saying that uh two weeks was a little bit lengthy for a trip, but he's he's having the time of his life.
• 1:23
  Alex: So, of course, my next question was when rise up Tokyo headquarters.
• 1:27
  Alex: Dude, Japan is on like the shortest of short lists for me.
• 1:31
  Alex: I've I've never been, I want to so bad.
• 1:34
  Iceyyy: I keep telling my girlfriend that um she needs to take work off during Tokyo game show, and we can we can go and make it a work trip because I'm like, oh, like you'll we'll film some content and you know, like uh expense it to the business card.
• 1:49
  Alex: Dude, that's that's the hack right there.
• 1:51
  Alex: That's how you do it.
• 1:51
  Alex: Yeah, what is uh what all happens when is first of all, when is that?
• 1:57
  Iceyyy: Uh I believe it's like end of summer, maybe early fall.
• 2:00
  Iceyyy: So it just happened, like late August, early September.
• 2:03
  Iceyyy: So we just missed this year.
• 2:04
  Iceyyy: Gotcha.
• 2:06
  Alex: There's quite a few because I know the the really the only one that I'm familiar with is or was before getting into web three, because I know there's a few, which um I'll have you give us a quick rundown on.
• 2:15
  Alex: But GDC was the only one that I was aware of.
• 2:18
  Iceyyy: Yeah, that's the big one.
• 2:19
  Iceyyy: That's the developer conference in San Francisco in March in the States.
• 2:23
  Iceyyy: It's a big one.
• 2:24
  Iceyyy: Uh, and then there's Gamescom in Germany, which kind of happens over the summer.
• 2:29
  Iceyyy: Um, but yeah, I mean, just like there's crypto conferences like every other month almost, uh, there's a ton of gaming conferences across the board.
• 2:38
  Iceyyy: We have PAX East, and which you know, probably William and I go to um when it comes here in Boston, and then PAX West uh on the West Coast and a whole bunch of other shows.
• 2:49
  Iceyyy: Like you went to uh the one in Toronto.
• 2:50
  Iceyyy: Oh, that was Consensus, actually.
• 2:52
  Iceyyy: Yeah, they yeah, but they had like a big gaming thing there too.
• 2:55
  Alex: Yeah, there's always an element, especially just since the niche, you know, grew to be a bigger thing, which we'll get into uh inside of the industry because you used to never see any of it.
• 3:05
  Alex: I mean, the first consensus that I went to in 21 or 22, 22, um, there was nothing.
• 3:13
  Alex: It was still like a very diverse conference, which is why that's the one that I consist I make sure like if I can only get to one per year, it's gonna be that one.
• 3:20
  Alex: Um, followed by probably permissionless, just because of the diversity of the projects.
• 3:24
  Alex: Like, we're not just I can't do Bitcoin conferences, dude.
• 3:27
  Alex: I just can't do it.
• 3:29
  Iceyyy: It's funny.
• 3:29
  Iceyyy: Sam went to something in um in Utah, Salt Lake City, and like I think he like just like said the word crypto, and they're like, No, no, no, no, like we don't say that word, like it's Bitcoin in Bitcoin only.
• 3:42
  Iceyyy: And he was like, Whoa, like where am I?
• 3:45
  Iceyyy: Which, like, hey, much love, you know, shout out to them, like the OGs, you know, like game is game, respect, you know.
• 3:51
  Iceyyy: I'm not mad at it.
• 3:53
  Alex: No, for sure.
• 3:53
  Alex: I mean, they're like, it's an experience, and um, and they're fun, but like, could the very first conference I ever went to was the North American Bitcoin Conference, which has been renamed um because they were doing too much like non-Bitcoin stuff to keep calling it a Bitcoin conference.
• 4:08
  Alex: But man, I just it's I can only listen to so many people talking to me about why their miner is better or argue about custody solutions when they're all the same.
• 4:16
  Alex: Yeah, I just can't I just can't do it.
• 4:19
  Iceyyy: It's been an interesting year or like maybe a year and a half for Bitcoin, right?
• 4:23
  Iceyyy: Because they had ordinals and then they tried to do NFTs and then DeFi on Bitcoin, and uh like I I don't know, I'm sure you you are way more up to date on crypto than I have been, uh, especially as of recent.
• 4:38
  Iceyyy: So I'm I don't know, I'm curious to to talk about that, kind of find out what's going on.
• 4:42
  Iceyyy: I watch Bankless and I watch you know the chopping block and stuff like that, but um I tune in to Rise Up Morning show sometimes, and I'm like, love you guys, you're y'all are crushing it, but you're talking about some stuff that I'm not I'm not really aware of, um, which is why your show is so great.
• 4:58
  Iceyyy: But yeah, man, I I I've been a little tapped out of the space.
• 5:02
  Iceyyy: Uh it's been a dude, weird year and weird cycle.
• 5:07
  Iceyyy: Like worst bull market ever, right?
• 5:10
  Iceyyy: We can all agree.
• 5:11
  Alex: Yeah, it's it's really hard to just I don't know.
• 5:14
  Alex: We were we were kind of we can we can get into this a little bit because it's gonna touch gaming as a niche too, because you know, gaming is one of those niches that we held up a long time ago as one of three that had achieved kind of a unicorn in the in the grand scheme of crypto niches, which is like uh specific adoption.
• 5:33
  Alex: I'm not trying to get this mass adoption uh talking point yet, but specific adoption with the actual target audience, yeah, versus like um actually, you know what?
• 5:43
  Alex: We were talking about the ISO 20022 standard cryptos and that family this morning, and how that talking point gets overused for hype all the time.
• 5:51
  Alex: That is a great example of one that has a bunch of fans and a brand that covers the world and like all of this stuff and a bunch of information out there about it, and people talking about it constantly.
• 6:00
  Alex: Nobody who actually requires that messaging standard for work gives a shit.
• 6:06
  Alex: So has a has achieved adoption not with target audience.
• 6:10
  Alex: Yeah, gaming though, along with meme coins and then DeFi as sort of a catch-all, you know, umbrella for I mean, everything staking, liquid staking, any of the looping stuff, uh, you know, any anything that deals with borrowing and lending protocols or all that sort of stuff has actually achieved like people who genuinely want to use the product using the product instead of just speculating on the token, whatever it is.
• 6:33
  Alex: But kind of in a bit of a dark place right now.
• 6:36
  Alex: Morale is low.
• 6:39
  Iceyyy: Which it's the craziest thing.
• 6:42
  Iceyyy: Because like for a long time, I've always been one that's like Bitcoin is a hundred K.
• 6:48
  Iceyyy: How are how is anybody bearish?
• 6:50
  Iceyyy: How is like anybody not excited?
• 6:53
  Iceyyy: Um, and that was my that was my stance.
• 6:57
  Iceyyy: I and it still is my stance, because I mean, guys, we went through the deepest of the bear.
• 7:04
  Iceyyy: We were here at 15k Bitcoin, right?
• 7:07
  Iceyyy: And and weren't ever that long ago, not that long ago, and we weren't ever sure if like it would ever come back.
• 7:14
  Iceyyy: Like we really thought it was dead, and here we are having you know the the golden bull run, the super cycle, and yet everyone is still like sad and depressed.
• 7:27
  Iceyyy: It's it's so weird.
• 7:28
  Iceyyy: Um, but like for me on the gaming side, like, and we can get into it whenever or as much as you want, but like, you know, gaming, thank you for saying like originally it had some product market fit and was was doing well, but this year it really, really failed to deliver on a lot of the promises, a lot of the potential.
• 7:49
  Iceyyy: Um, and we to be honest with you, Alex, we haven't been making the progress that I would like to see.
• 7:56
  Iceyyy: And it's been kind of discouraging.
• 7:59
  Iceyyy: There was a recent report that came out um where like 97 of the token launches this year were were down, you know, 60, 70, 80, 90 in some cases, and it's like right 97, which like we know in gaming, it's a hit-driven business, 98, 99 of projects are going to fail.
• 8:23
  Iceyyy: So, like on one hand, this is probably you know what to expect.
• 8:29
  Alex: On the other hand, when you see that, it's just pain, it's just max pain.
• 8:35
  Alex: Yeah, let's let's linger on that for a second because I think that's a good place to take it.
• 8:40
  Alex: I was gonna ask you what you thought the like the leading cause of the I think the term that I want to use for tonight is a mid-mortem.
• 8:48
  Alex: It's not a post-mortem.
• 8:50
  Iceyyy: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:51
  Alex: I would not so go so far as to call the niche or the narrative dead by any stretch.
• 8:55
  Alex: Yeah, but it's going through an inevitable dark time.
• 8:59
  Alex: Um I speculate that the TGE conundrum is the biggest ingredient as to why that is.
• 9:07
  Alex: I'm curious just because you have a lot more experience watching them watching these TGE for anyone um unfamiliar with the acronym TGE stands for token generation event.
• 9:18
  Alex: It's the it's the fateful time when a crypto-based project launches its token and inevitably disappoints quite literally everybody.
• 9:29
  Alex: Yeah.
• 9:29
  Alex: Um, I could not be someone asked on the on the morning show the other day, any TGEs that you're looking forward to?
• 9:35
  Alex: And I was like, honestly, no, I'm dreading all of them.
• 9:38
  Alex: If I hear that you're about to TGE, I'm immediately bearish.
• 9:41
  Alex: And I think that that's that's probably a pretty pervasive sentiment, like especially into gaming, because I mean, dude, there were so many.
• 9:49
  Alex: Is that would you kind of would you agree with that, or do you think something else was worse?
• 9:53
  Iceyyy: No, it's totally the case.
• 9:54
  Iceyyy: So for anyone who's tuning in, not familiar with me, my name is Icy Gaming.
• 9:58
  Alex: I make daily introduce yourself.
• 10:01
  Iceyyy: No, no, it's okay.
• 10:01
  Iceyyy: Uh, just like as we're getting into it, it's like I make a daily gaming news video where I recap like the top news stories and happenings across the space, very much like Williams, you know, uh crypto update and like the rise up morning show that you guys put on.
• 10:18
  Iceyyy: Um, and in my content, Alex, like, you know, I want to uh support these projects in these games.
• 10:26
  Iceyyy: So yeah, their TGE is like their big coming out, you know, uh titular moment, and it's very exciting.
• 10:34
  Iceyyy: Everything kind of like leads up and builds up to that.
• 10:37
  Iceyyy: Um, so I want to be supportive of that.
• 10:40
  Iceyyy: Here's the date, here's what they're doing, here's like their white paper, here's their tokenomics.
• 10:45
  Iceyyy: But now I've started to say, like, it's bare, like I hope that you guys have a better solution and plan than what we've seen so far.
• 10:54
  Iceyyy: Um, good luck, because you're launching into an uh a pretty bad environment where again you're more likely to fail.
• 11:03
  Iceyyy: And we've seen it time and time again, Alex, more times than I can count on two hands this year, where someone launches their token and a few hours later they have to like go on Twitter and make this like post where they're like, we're sorry, like this didn't go as planned.
• 11:20
  Iceyyy: And it's like, I mean, on one hand, I give them a ton of credit because I would not want to be in those shoes.
• 11:27
  Iceyyy: And kudos to the founders and the people that show up in the hard times and are like you know, genuinely doing their best that they can do.
• 11:38
  Iceyyy: Uh, it's uh I mean it's a crazy space to like you know operate in.
• 11:45
  Iceyyy: Like how it's it's a it feels like a lose-lose, Alex.
• 11:49
  Iceyyy: And okay, you know, so I was gonna get tired of winning, and I'm tired of losing.
• 11:55
  Alex: No, what are you talking about?
• 11:56
  Alex: This is winning.
• 11:56
  Alex: This is the winning.
• 11:58
  Alex: Um, let me ask you this because the I think the same thing every time I see um a token drop, a TGE of some sort.
• 12:06
  Alex: It's the same playbook every time.
• 12:08
  Alex: Yeah, and I my question is like, how many BD teams, how many marketing teams, how many, how many uh depart, how many whole teams, how many whole departments, whatever?
• 12:18
  Alex: I mean, whoever's involved in this thing, how many people have to watch the same thing fail over and over and over and over again, and then look at themselves in the mirror with their project and be like, guys, ours is gonna be good.
• 12:30
  Alex: Yeah, because in my head, you're insane, and it's that's a boneheaded move.
• 12:36
  Alex: Like, why not why not?
• 12:37
  Alex: What do you have to lose?
• 12:38
  Alex: Why not try something different?
• 12:40
  Iceyyy: You know, yeah, there's a few people that are trying to do do things a bit differently, uh, which is kind of fun and exciting um in gaming, but at the same time, it's it has been a little exhausting across the board.
• 12:55
  Iceyyy: So, like, I've been thinking a lot about this.
• 12:58
  Iceyyy: Um, and there just has to be there, there has to be a better way.
• 13:04
  Iceyyy: There, there has to be like there's more important work that needs to be done.
• 13:08
  Iceyyy: And I've started to to think about where I can spend my time doing some of that work.
• 13:16
  Iceyyy: I thought I was like, all right, I'll be a content creator, all these people, they're doing the work.
• 13:20
  Iceyyy: I'll just talk about the work that they're doing and support them and work all boats are gonna rise with the tide.
• 13:28
  Iceyyy: And then I've just been beaten down a lot this year where I'm like, guys, where all right, like what's going on here?
• 13:34
  Iceyyy: Maybe, maybe I need to like spend some time working on this because you know, I don't know how you feel, Alex, and and I don't know like where it's at in broader crypto, but like, you know, I was kind of like I came up in the DeFi era, right?
• 13:47
  Iceyyy: Like, I remember old CT crypto Twitter, where a lot of these conversations and like rigorous research was being done and debate, like intellectual debate was happening um that was really exciting and inspiring.
• 14:05
  Iceyyy: And like, you know, we were all optimistic about this new uh world that we were gonna build.
• 14:14
  Iceyyy: Uh and I feel like we've lost that.
• 14:18
  Iceyyy: You don't really see that as much anymore.
• 14:20
  Iceyyy: Like I remember watching, you know, Justin Drake, who was like an Ethereum researcher on Bankless.
• 14:26
  Iceyyy: And, you know, I I got so I was in it for the tech, ironically, you know?
• 14:30
  Iceyyy: And uh, and we just don't have that anymore or as much of that anymore.
• 14:36
  Iceyyy: It's been dominated by like, you know, meme coins and pump fun and stuff, and it's it's like it's less inspiring.
• 14:43
  Iceyyy: And uh on the gaming front, I think that's what we we need more of that.
• 14:47
  Iceyyy: Of like, how do you like what does a sustainable game economy actually look like?
• 14:51
  Iceyyy: And how do you design for one?
• 14:53
  Iceyyy: And can tokens work in a game?
• 14:57
  Iceyyy: Maybe yes, maybe no, but like I've been disappointed in a lot of the projects that I thought were doing this work, that it turns out listen, not to discredit them, because I think a lot of work was done, but or rather, and we've learned like, oh yeah, those those ideas like it doesn't work.
• 15:20
  Iceyyy: That's not the product market fit.
• 15:22
  Iceyyy: Um, that's not going to be sustainable.
• 15:24
  Iceyyy: So I do think that we've made progress in many ways of like, what's the Albert Einstein thing?
• 15:30
  Iceyyy: Like, we found 10,000 ways for tokens not to work in games.
• 15:36
  Alex: I I don't even know if you can say that because I feel like we keep I would I'd be curious if you if you can think of any examples of someone who's tried to at least buck the trend a little bit or you know break em old, insert another cliche about uh you know different methodologies here.
• 15:51
  Alex: Because launching a token for sale, right, goes the same way every single time.
• 15:57
  Alex: Like, okay, guys, TGE's out, the KOLs already did their round, the VCs are already in before the KOLs are.
• 16:02
  Alex: We've got guys, we've got everything.
• 16:05
  Alex: We've got multiple layers of people who are just ready to dump on you, but don't worry, they can only dump 15% of the total supply in the first 10 seconds of the launch.
• 16:13
  Alex: So, you know, don't worry, it can only go down so far, right?
• 16:17
  Alex: But as you said, what's the average down of most of these tokens?
• 16:22
  Alex: It's it's north.
• 16:24
  Alex: I mean, you said 60%, dude.
• 16:25
  Alex: If one was only down 60%, I feel like you're killing it.
• 16:29
  Alex: Yeah, exactly.
• 16:30
  Alex: Like most of these things are 95 plus looking at them.
• 16:34
  Alex: They're awful.
• 16:35
  Alex: And I it just makes me think like, why not at the very least, if you've already got the VC money, if you already fundraised, if you already have the interest and you really just don't want to sync yourself with a token, because that's what it feels like.
• 16:49
  Alex: Why not just give it away for free through some sort of creative method and then lop it off at that?
• 16:55
  Alex: Like take the V The crappy part though, I think is is the VC pollution problem.
• 17:00
  Alex: Because like, how do you get a VC involved without giving them any token?
• 17:03
  Alex: Yeah, if you could crack that, that would be that would be it, you know, like another methodology for VCs to give money to a studio, to a uh, you know, single game project, whatever, yeah, without getting do you have thoughts on that?
• 17:18
  Iceyyy: Because we've talked about we've that's kind of been a pervasive narrative, right?
• 17:22
  Iceyyy: Like VCs are are extractive and and maybe toxic, and VCs have corrupted crypto.
• 17:27
  Iceyyy: And and I don't I don't know enough to know where on the spectrum that is true.
• 17:34
  Iceyyy: Um you know, for me, it was like one of the things I got into crypto for was it was supposed to be power to the people, democratized, fair launches, transparent, open.
• 17:46
  Iceyyy: Right.
• 17:47
  Iceyyy: And and that was the original promise.
• 17:49
  Iceyyy: And then yeah, like, you know, it does seem like a lot of VC money came in, and that's where a lot of things, you know, were co-opted, and not it's not, I mean, we have rottenness all throughout the stack, exchanges and advisors, and you know, uh developers, contracts, and things like that.
• 18:10
  Iceyyy: So it's not just on on any one singular party, but like it's just it feels like a lot of things have lost their way.
• 18:16
  Iceyyy: Um, but I I don't know.
• 18:19
  Iceyyy: Do you like like should we not like like give time and energy to VC style?
• 18:27
  Iceyyy: Should we avoid that at all costs?
• 18:28
  Iceyyy: Like, what is there a way forward?
• 18:30
  Iceyyy: I don't know.
• 18:31
  Alex: Yeah, I I would not do us all the disservice of like bloviating and say that I have a solution to it, yeah.
• 18:38
  Alex: But you know, the I mean the first step would be identifying the problem.
• 18:41
  Alex: If the VC is the problem, then we need a better caliber of venture capital.
• 18:46
  Alex: Yeah, um, because right now it dude, it's so predatory.
• 18:49
  Alex: That what killed my studio was was venture capital.
• 18:53
  Alex: Right.
• 18:53
  Alex: It was we didn't even get that far, though.
• 18:55
  Alex: Like I don't I'm I don't know if you remember um or if I've told you this story before, but we had started with the game, you know, the game was being built.
• 19:03
  Alex: I wanted nothing tokenized at all uh in the beginning.
• 19:06
  Alex: There was gonna be, you know, some uh eligibility for people who were holding a specific NFT to get some perks and privileges and early access and stuff like that, but that had already been out and launched and in people's hands for well over a year.
• 19:19
  Alex: And then we got the grant, and the grant was great.
• 19:22
  Alex: And I looked them in the eye and I was like, look, this is like the bare minimum.
• 19:27
  Alex: It was uh overall, it was a $300,000 grant, yeah, which at the time I was blown away by.
• 19:34
  Alex: And then the more that I learned about game development, I was like, okay, this is like we're gonna get a scotch tape and toilet paper tube version of this thing at the end of it, and we can call it the playable alpha.
• 19:48
  Alex: Like we're gonna we're gonna get we're gonna get to alpha.
• 19:50
  Alex: And then, you know, long story short, you mentioned exchanges, the grant got punted to Mex C.
• 19:56
  Alex: Mex C.
• 19:59
  Alex: And uh immediately they were like token.
• 20:03
  Alex: Yeah, and I was like, listen, it's not a no, but it's a not yet.
• 20:07
  Alex: Yeah, I think that there's a world in which it makes sense.
• 20:10
  Alex: I would love to start with just stable coins first.
• 20:13
  Alex: Like, can we just do USDC first or yeah, um, you know, the native ecosystem token?
• 20:18
  Alex: Like, could we just use raw avalanche?
• 20:20
  Alex: Could we just use raw Solana?
• 20:21
  Alex: Can we use raw polygon, whatever, whatever it ended up being?
• 20:24
  Alex: And it was nope token now.
• 20:26
  Alex: You're gonna use that to fundraise the rest of it.
• 20:28
  Alex: I was like, okay, yeah, I can't, and then they pulled the funding and the studio died.
• 20:33
  Alex: Right, yeah.
• 20:34
  Alex: Um you know, we made a little bit of progress without any money, but you know, it's really not that compelling to work for free.
• 20:41
  Alex: So, you know, it gets old.
• 20:43
  Alex: So I don't know.
• 20:43
  Alex: I think that I I'm excited to see what Bryson can do because I feel like he has his finger on the pulse of the industry itself and like what makes a good game.
• 20:52
  Alex: And you know, he's got a lot of experience on the content side, he knows what it's like as a KOL, he knows what uh audiences like.
• 21:01
  Alex: He's obviously a super successful content creator, and if he's trying to get into the venture capital world now, um I mean, you know, I'm hopeful.
• 21:09
  Alex: I would be optimistic about something like that.
• 21:11
  Alex: I think that has a higher chance of success than anything else I'm seeing right now.
• 21:15
  Iceyyy: Have you guys had any VCs on?
• 21:17
  Iceyyy: I I'm like super curious to see more of this conversation.
• 21:21
  Alex: Yeah, I have.
• 21:21
  Alex: We have we've had us we've had several.
• 21:23
  Alex: Um, and actually I'm looking forward to doing more because I'm starting another show and uh Katie Bettner is involved.
• 21:29
  Alex: Oh, yeah, I'm pretty excited.
• 21:31
  Alex: So I'm oh alpha will have a little bit more of that.
• 21:34
  Alex: Yeah, spoiler alert.
• 21:36
  Alex: Um I love that we've had a couple.
• 21:38
  Alex: Um, Gerard, uh friend friend of the show, has been on a couple times.
• 21:43
  Alex: He's worked in VC for a long time and we sort of talked about it.
• 21:46
  Alex: Um, there's definitely, you know, like good and bad practices, but I think the one thing at the end of the day is that even if their intentions are good, if they end up with supply, there's going to be a problem.
• 21:58
  Alex: It just there has to be because they are not interested in the utilitarian side of your token.
• 22:03
  Alex: If it's transactory in nature, then they're going to transact with it.
• 22:06
  Alex: And if you don't have a plan for that, you know, because we've seen what was a what's a really good example?
• 22:13
  Alex: Um, remember Arcade?
• 22:14
  Alex: Uh yeah.
• 22:16
  Alex: They had an interesting plan to use two tokens.
• 22:22
  Alex: Um which is not necessarily a bad strategy.
• 22:26
  Alex: Evan talks about like the two token system a lot.
• 22:29
  Alex: And uh it still still didn't go well.
• 22:33
  Alex: Yeah.
• 22:34
  Alex: You know, the people never used the token for what they were supposed to use it for.
• 22:39
  Iceyyy: Yeah.
• 22:40
  Alex: I don't know.
• 22:41
  Iceyyy: Yeah, this is a work that, you know, because like again, going back to the Ethereum and DeFi days and you know, the the fat protocol thesis, that type of stuff was this was what really excited me about the space where you could contribute and have ownership and governance um and upside.
• 23:03
  Iceyyy: And you know, it's it's cool.
• 23:06
  Iceyyy: Like we we're we're finally seeing, I mean, what five years later Uniswap turn on fees, uh, which is major, major for for the space and really exciting.
• 23:16
  Iceyyy: Um, and and I look at projects like that that are driving revenue, that have a real great model, tons of users, and it's like, okay, like this stuff can work, right?
• 23:29
  Iceyyy: Like the Ethereum, you know, they've they've got the burn and they've got blob space, and like, you know, but there's still a lot of issues with scaling, and like it's not still usable for people, uh, for the masses or whatnot.
• 23:44
  Iceyyy: So it's like there's just so much work to be done across the board, and that was always my thesis with crypto gaming as well.
• 23:54
  Iceyyy: Um, gaming is is you know, you've got a two or threefold problem where you know, not only just making a successful like protocol, smart contract, uh token economy, but you have to make a successful game, which is also incredibly difficult, takes a ton of time, um, takes a ton of capital and investment.
• 24:16
  Iceyyy: I mean, I feel like you know, some of these DeFi protocols, if they raised $50 million, like you're forking a protocol, you're you know, you got tons of runway and whatnot.
• 24:26
  Iceyyy: 50 million in game development is like maybe just the game development.
• 24:32
  Iceyyy: Never mind, go to market.
• 24:33
  Iceyyy: You need another 50 million, you know, it's like, and obviously that that that budget ranges, so uh, and it takes years and years.
• 24:40
  Iceyyy: And and again, you might launch, you know, at a bad time, or the the tech, you know, the the moment is passed, so it's so difficult.
• 24:49
  Iceyyy: Uh, that I guess we like shouldn't be surprised as much.
• 24:54
  Iceyyy: Um, but I guess also when you're in it every day and compounded by social media and compounded by crypto, yeah, it can just get a little little weary on you.
• 25:05
  Alex: I think that that could also be part of the problem.
• 25:09
  Alex: And it's one of the reasons I'm so excited about stuff like remix because the initial you you could say this about so many things.
• 25:18
  Alex: The initial cost, the barrier to entry of making something is is obscene.
• 25:24
  Alex: Yeah.
• 25:24
  Alex: I mean, uh in the in like the big you know, triple A realm.
• 25:30
  Alex: I feel like I often hear games like Fortnite get thrown around as being like initially low cost to develop compared to then what they've gone on to do.
• 25:40
  Alex: It was still like a hundred million dollars to make that game.
• 25:43
  Alex: Yeah, which is crazy.
• 25:46
  Alex: You know, it's it's kind of like the uh the conundrum.
• 25:48
  Alex: I mean, this infects so many things, like the fact that the startup capital is that high, meaning you have to take it from elsewhere unless you are already obscenely wealthy, right?
• 25:57
  Alex: Um, you know, running for political office.
• 26:00
  Alex: You have an idea you want to run for office, it's about ten million dollars to run for Senate.
• 26:05
  Alex: Yeah, you want to run for president?
• 26:07
  Alex: I mean, maybe the House, still hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not seven figures to run for that.
• 26:14
  Alex: Like, you know, it's so I would love to know, man.
• 26:18
  Alex: I feel like it you we have to be able to put out something that people can try so that the studio knows which direction to build in.
• 26:25
  Alex: I think about this every day with GTA 6, dude.
• 26:27
  Alex: Like every time, every time I think about I'm like, there's no way it can live up to there's no way.
• 26:34
  Alex: There's no way.
• 26:36
  Iceyyy: I mean, I think there's a way.
• 26:38
  Iceyyy: I'm with you, I'm with you, but I also think that there's a way.
• 26:41
  Iceyyy: Um, because I think I think Grand Theft Auto, and I love that we're talking about this, and also can we talk about Arc Raiders next?
• 26:48
  Iceyyy: Have you played Arc Raiders?
• 26:49
  Iceyyy: Because we need to get you into Arc Raiders.
• 26:51
  Iceyyy: Um listen, I I I just uh call this is gonna maybe shock you, but like I just got a PS5, um, and I just worked my way through Grand Theft Auto 5, and like, you know, because I could become a PC gamer and then life takes over and and whatnot, and like crypto brought me back into gaming.
• 27:12
  Iceyyy: So like I hadn't played Grand Theft Auto since like you know, uh San Andreas on like like a PS2.
• 27:21
  Iceyyy: So playing Grand Theft Auto 5 on a PS5 because it was like the remastered game, even though it's like from 2013, was like it was it was like a religious experience.
• 27:32
  Iceyyy: I was like, this is amazing.
• 27:34
  Iceyyy: It brought me back to my childhood.
• 27:35
  Iceyyy: I was I was a kid in a candy store, and I'm like, this is and it just like because it it's it's GTA, it you know, it's from Grand Theft Auto 3, you know, to four to San Andreas to Vice City, it's like it just has that core DNA of being Grand Theft Auto with better graphics and you know cooler, cooler missions and cooler NPCs or whatever.
• 27:58
  Iceyyy: And I think that's all that GTA 6 really needs to be.
• 28:01
  Iceyyy: Like, I just need you know, a great story again, a great world, that nostalgia, that gameplay in a modern world.
• 28:10
  Iceyyy: Because, like, dude, I I don't know when the last time you played GTA 5 was, but I was like, I can't believe they're getting away with this.
• 28:17
  Iceyyy: This is so I was uncomfortable as an adult.
• 28:20
  Iceyyy: I'm like, this is not a game for kids.
• 28:23
  Iceyyy: Like, kids should not be playing this, you know.
• 28:25
  Iceyyy: But that's like that's a part of like growing up, and you know, that's just something that uh I don't know, the world like is always gonna, I feel like need it's like a rite of passage.
• 28:36
  Iceyyy: It's like a rite of passage.
• 28:37
  Iceyyy: You're 14 years old, you got your bagel bites in the toaster, and uh you're you know, you're playing some toxic video games and just live it, living, living life.
• 28:45
  Iceyyy: So I think as long as GTA like it's just a great band that you want to see them, you know, play their hits and like you know, just play to your hits and it's gonna be great.
• 28:57
  Alex: It's an interesting okay.
• 28:59
  Alex: So for the record, Grand Theft Auto 5, 270 million dollars to make.
• 29:04
  Alex: Yeah, uh Black Ops six, because seven is is coming out, you know.
• 29:09
  Alex: Black Ops six.
• 29:10
  Alex: Any guesses?
• 29:12
  Alex: It's like four or five.
• 29:14
  Alex: Was it six?
• 29:15
  Alex: Oh, eight, seven, seven, yeah, hundred million.
• 29:20
  Alex: Yeah, and they just they made one they made it last year, and now seven, like seven's that we got to play it for a year, and here's seven.
• 29:27
  Alex: Yeah, it's insane.
• 29:27
  Alex: You know what's crazy though?
• 29:28
  Alex: Because if we're if we're taking down it, you know, trip down memory lane to you know games that defined youths.
• 29:34
  Alex: Uh, I vividly remember the first time I played um I think it would have been on a PS2.
• 29:39
  Alex: I was very late to video gaming, it wasn't we didn't have it in my house, it was only at my friends' houses.
• 29:44
  Iceyyy: Yeah, same, same.
• 29:45
  Iceyyy: Because my mom wouldn't like she like didn't want me like playing being inside playing video games.
• 29:49
  Iceyyy: Like, you're gonna go outside.
• 29:50
  Iceyyy: So I had to like beg for you know game board.
• 29:54
  Alex: My dad, as the engineer, I had to build a game first.
• 29:58
  Alex: Um, so we made like Like asteroids or something on like an ancient compact in the early 2000s.
• 30:04
  Alex: And then I was able to play a video game, and it was uh it was the eyewitness history museum of exploration where you just walked around a history museum and read the in read the exhibits.
• 30:14
  Iceyyy: Nice.
• 30:14
  Alex: Um, but I remember 007 Nightfire was like one of the first ones.
• 30:18
  Alex: You know how much that costs to make?
• 30:19
  Alex: I'm looking all these up in the background here.
• 30:22
  Iceyyy: Yeah, I mean back then, dude, probably like like two million, three million.
• 30:28
  Alex: Yeah, you're really good at this.
• 30:29
  Alex: Uh five million.
• 30:31
  Iceyyy: Yeah.
• 30:31
  Alex: Uh what year was that?
• 30:33
  Alex: 2002.
• 30:34
  Alex: So I can't, I don't think it's really gotten that much more expensive since then to make an arguably great game.
• 30:43
  Alex: And I have spent more time enjoying myself playing a game on remix than I have playing games that I know for a fact people spent millions of dollars to make.
• 30:56
  Alex: Um one of the most aggressive examples is when Dragon Age Inquisition came out, and I just got bored so fast because I was like fresh off of Skyrim, and Skyrim was so good.
• 31:07
  Iceyyy: Yeah.
• 31:07
  Alex: And then Dragon Age, I just couldn't get into it, and I'm like, dude, you know how much money someone spent to make this?
• 31:12
  Alex: So I feel like the answer really has to be like cracking a great mechanic that keeps people engaged in something, but it you don't have to spend a billion dollars to do it.
• 31:23
  Alex: I I refuse to believe that.
• 31:26
  Iceyyy: I think they spent through like the rumor is they spent like 300 million dollars just on the water.
• 31:35
  Iceyyy: Like they really care, they really care about like water, and and this is gonna be the best water that you have ever seen in a video game.
• 31:44
  Alex: And yet I probably spent an outsized amount of time fishing in old school RuneScape with water that was nine pixels.
• 31:52
  Iceyyy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 31:53
  Alex: For sure.
• 31:53
  Alex: I want a 12-pixel shark out of it and had the time of my life.
• 31:56
  Iceyyy: And then and that's why, like, that's why you know the crypto gaming thesis makes so much sense because it's like gaming is universal.
• 32:02
  Iceyyy: Everybody loves playing games, playing video games.
• 32:05
  Iceyyy: We all have that connection.
• 32:07
  Iceyyy: Uh, you know, reportedly there's 300 uh yeah, 3 billion gamers in the world, which is like half the world's population, or I guess a third now, because we keep growing.
• 32:19
  Iceyyy: Um, but so I I completely agree with you.
• 32:22
  Iceyyy: I think that, and that's what makes me so excited and passionate about the space and being able to like connect with these developers like Appalling Katie Bettner and Project O and seeing like off the grid, like we have it's crazy because it's like I tweeted this out recently, it's been like the best of times and the worst of times, you know.
• 32:43
  Iceyyy: It's it's a tail, it's a tale of two bull markets or two cycles or something.
• 32:49
  Iceyyy: Um, because like we have off the grid.
• 32:51
  Iceyyy: I can go play off the grid on my PlayStation 5 right now, which is a crypto game.
• 32:56
  Iceyyy: Um because I'm in the US, I can't connect the the NFT stuff yet, but that is coming because they're actually doing all of their uh regulatory compliance by the book.
• 33:07
  Iceyyy: They are the first gaming token to get the my car, which it's like the Europeans uh like digital asset, you know, SEC approval essentially, uh, to be able to trade their token.
• 33:20
  Iceyyy: They have their game chain guns on like directly connected on OpenSea.
• 33:26
  Iceyyy: So you can, you know, someone in Europe could be playing the game, get an NFT from the game, go on OpenSea and trade that, or trade it in the marketplace, which also is an on-chain transaction, which is amazing.
• 33:38
  Iceyyy: But you have like the centralized exchange, which is the game server, and then you have the alternative, not really a DEX, but in our world, it's like comparable to a DEX in a sense where you can take it outside of the ecosystem and trade it on an open global 24-7 marketplace.
• 33:57
  Iceyyy: Like that's just incredible to me.
• 33:59
  Iceyyy: So, like, there are incredible things that are happening.
• 34:03
  Iceyyy: Um but yeah, when you know, when it's been a uh uh exhausting cycle, you know, you you you you get ping-ponged back and forth.
• 34:13
  Alex: There was a there was a question earlier just about the cycle, because you know, you mentioned the way that it's worst bull market ever.
• 34:19
  Alex: Um, you know, and the as people try to figure out how to stay relevant as a creator with not much to say, the cycle is about all you can talk about.
• 34:30
  Alex: And, you know, rumors of super cycle or is the four-year cycle dead, or you know, what what's going to change about it as we move forward?
• 34:39
  Alex: Um, and you know, I I don't know, but I do believe that the way that it's going to evolve naturally has to be niche-based, just because there's so many cryptocurrencies that it's completely unrealistic to think that we're gonna see some sort of like, you know, tidal rise of everything.
• 34:57
  Alex: There's no way, there's not enough money for that.
• 34:59
  Alex: None of these things matter.
• 35:00
  Alex: But, you know, Solana could explode contagious to things in its ecosystem, or other things that are tangential to the reason that caused it to explode.
• 35:12
  Alex: You know, it's compliant with something and other things that are compliant with it go up.
• 35:16
  Alex: AI narrative pops, AI things go up.
• 35:18
  Alex: Gaming in theory, um, although you have this interesting conundrum there where so many of these tokens are kind of pointless.
• 35:26
  Alex: And so you then you'd have to say, Okay, well, what about the ecosystem?
• 35:31
  Alex: So what about Avax?
• 35:33
  Alex: What about Ronin?
• 35:34
  Alex: What about Solana?
• 35:36
  Alex: What about anything that is a blockchain that hosts these things?
• 35:40
  Alex: You know, which is where my original idea came from.
• 35:43
  Alex: Like, if you're trying to make a game and you also need a crypto element, why not just use USDC or the native token for the blockchain you're building on instead and not have to worry about that?
• 35:54
  Alex: Because managing a token is really time consuming and it sucks.
• 35:58
  Alex: Yeah, it's so demoralizing.
• 36:00
  Alex: I don't recommend anybody do it.
• 36:02
  Alex: It's awful, truly awful.
• 36:04
  Alex: Yeah, if you can't tell, time discarded from it.
• 36:08
  Alex: It took years off my life, and it wasn't mine, wasn't even fungible.
• 36:11
  Alex: Yeah, so you add that element to it and like how liquid it is and how high velocity they are, it's even worse.
• 36:18
  Alex: Yeah.
• 36:19
  Alex: So I mean, what do you there's not really a question there, but I guess you know, I wonder, do you still do you still hear like whispers of people who are pushing a game through development that are in some way, shape, or form like changing the way they plan to bring it to market with a web 3 element?
• 36:35
  Iceyyy: Yeah, definitely.
• 36:36
  Iceyyy: I think uh some there's been some interesting shots on goal or um experiments that are running, and then I do think that there are a lot of the space is kind of waking up to the reality that some of our preconceived notions and theses are not working, and and we need to rethink our approach.
• 37:03
  Iceyyy: So, one of the ones kind of along the lines of what you were suggesting earlier is shout out to Kobe Streams in the building.
• 37:10
  Iceyyy: Uh, I I appreciate that support, brother.
• 37:12
  Iceyyy: Uh, shout out to everyone tuning in, man.
• 37:14
  Iceyyy: I I think William Wobson popped in on the TikTok.
• 37:17
  Iceyyy: I see all these like gifted tears and everyone showing support.
• 37:20
  Iceyyy: You absolutely love that.
• 37:21
  Iceyyy: Um, shout out to uh to Mr.
• 37:24
  Iceyyy: Robot.
• 37:24
  Iceyyy: Oh, I like that.
• 37:25
  Iceyyy: One of my favorite shows, absolutely goaded.
• 37:28
  Iceyyy: Um, you know, we we love Wildcard, which is this uh the game from Katie and Drake, uh Katie and Paul Bettner, and they did 100% of their token to their community through earned through gameplay.
• 37:44
  Iceyyy: Uh, and they basically are like launching their game as a regular traditional, we call it web 2 game, but that's really silly.
• 37:52
  Iceyyy: It's like traditional game on you know Steam, um, and and have like a different kind of economy uh outside of their game that is tied to their token.
• 38:04
  Iceyyy: So that is a really cool way to go about it where it's not, oh, 15% is going to the VCs and all that stuff, right?
• 38:13
  Iceyyy: They're not they're not doing any of that stuff.
• 38:15
  Iceyyy: Um, and they've like separated the the studio and the game and the foundation and the token, like the all that stuff is uh is a really compelling approach.
• 38:27
  Iceyyy: To your point about like the gaming chains.
• 38:30
  Iceyyy: I I am become more of the mind that that is the right approach or a more compelling approach where I'm interested.
• 38:42
  Iceyyy: A gaming token we have not seen work, and and I think it's really, really hard to work.
• 38:49
  Iceyyy: And and maybe it can work for a little while, but like, is it gonna work for 10 years?
• 38:54
  Iceyyy: Is that game gonna exist?
• 38:56
  Iceyyy: Like, what would a token in RuneScape look like?
• 38:59
  Iceyyy: Um, really, really hard to make that work.
• 39:01
  Iceyyy: The closest that we've seen has been Eve Online, which has a massive, you know, in-game economy and and track record uh and like Lindy effect, right?
• 39:13
  Iceyyy: And that they're really exciting because they have a crypto version called Eve Frontier, where they are like all in on the crypto ethos, and they're they're like, we want in this world of Eve Frontier, like everybody can launch a token.
• 39:32
  Iceyyy: It's like it's almost like pump fun within the game, and they're they have a really interesting, which might not sound like all of that compelling when you're like pump fun, like, but but they're like, listen, total freedom, total uh crypto ethos, where you know it's democratized and anybody can do anything, libertarian values, like yes, a lot of tokens are gonna die, just like we see in the regular crypto market, but like this is it's on the game economy to like find a way to make it work.
• 40:01
  Iceyyy: And they're they're also but they're also using smart contracts within the game to govern how like a ship will will function or how a world will function or how a weapon can function.
• 40:17
  Iceyyy: Like they're encoding that into code as law, which is really, really compelling.
• 40:22
  Iceyyy: Uh, so they are one of the more, and it's listen, it's above my it's too big brain for me, it's above my pedigree to understand how it all works.
• 40:30
  Iceyyy: But these are guys that have 20, 30 year track record of running in-game economies and and balancing and and figuring out you know their player economy.
• 40:41
  Iceyyy: So that's really compelling.
• 40:43
  Iceyyy: Um, sorry, I'm like going on this tangent, but I I this is like what I get passionate about all day.
• 40:49
  Iceyyy: I think on the on the on the chain side, you mentioned Ronin.
• 40:53
  Iceyyy: I I would also include Immutable.
• 40:55
  Iceyyy: I think Immutable has started to do some really compelling things, they're one of the largest gaming blockchains, and they really view themselves as a publisher, and they have now integrated their publishing platform, which is Immutable Play, into their gaming, you know, library, where it's a it's a really simple, straightforward questing platform, but it doesn't feel like a questing platform, and it doesn't like come off as like, oh, just do these, you know, play these games and get tokens.
• 41:28
  Iceyyy: It is a more thoughtful, integrated way, the same way that you know, PlayStation trophies or Steam achievements work.
• 41:37
  Iceyyy: It's like you're doing this stuff anyways.
• 41:40
  Iceyyy: Here's your recognition, here's your achievement.
• 41:43
  Iceyyy: Um, and it just so happens to be, you know, in the form of some tokens, which makes a lot of sense because now you're distributing that, you know, that one token across, they've got like 500 games on their platform, and you know, some of them are going to be massive and some of them aren't.
• 42:00
  Iceyyy: And and so that is a more interesting way of like, okay, if I'm retail or just you know, regular, regular guy looking to maybe partake in this crypto thing, and it's like, oh, I could, I could kind of have a share of their, you know, essentially studio or essentially like massive game publisher.
• 42:22
  Iceyyy: You know, a friend said this to me a long time ago.
• 42:24
  Iceyyy: It's like, you know, sometimes tokens, you know, ride the line of being uh um um securities like too closely.
• 42:35
  Iceyyy: And it's like, okay, yes, but like securities are legal.
• 42:39
  Iceyyy: Like securities are are a governed, regulated thing that are are these assets uh that people can invest in.
• 42:49
  Iceyyy: And like if that works, then it's reasonable to assume that that could work in in crypto.
• 42:57
  Iceyyy: Um, now again, a lot of red tape and regulation needs to be figured out, but we have we're starting to get like the the means and ways to do that, at least in the US, where we're having a more favorable uh regulatory regime.
• 43:11
  Iceyyy: So like that's kind of how I am looking at the space and being like, okay, there are these shining moments and this like light at the end of the tunnel where this stuff really could could work.
• 43:24
  Iceyyy: And immutable again, I want to give them credit because I think like 100%, it was just announced 100% of their supply has like vested and is out there now.
• 43:32
  Iceyyy: So you don't have these like major unlocks.
• 43:34
  Iceyyy: And I I'm not I maybe have a little bit of immutable somewhere.
• 43:38
  Iceyyy: Uh I don't have big bags of immutable, I don't work with them, I've worked with them in the past, but I just like champion anybody in gaming who is doing doing great things.
• 43:47
  Iceyyy: I think at Avax has like done a lot in the gaming sense, but immutable right now is uh is really crushing it and um you know doing good work in that space.
• 43:58
  Alex: You bring up a couple things that I think are interesting.
• 44:01
  Alex: We've kind of covered them before.
• 44:03
  Alex: So one of the people who I think is now our most frequent guest on the show is William Quigley, um, who has done a couple notable things in and around his time uh in the tech space, one of which is co-founding Tether, the biggest, most popular cryptocurrency on the playoffs.
• 44:19
  Alex: Yeah, one or two, yeah.
• 44:22
  Alex: It's uh little little thing.
• 44:25
  Alex: Um, but he was also a big deal in the beginnings of uh video games with in-game economies and with tradable items.
• 44:32
  Alex: So he was on like one of the original teams that created the idea of being able to transfer items between players in games.
• 44:39
  Alex: Um going back to like Ultima Online type stuff.
• 44:43
  Alex: Um and he has a lot of interesting thoughts about this.
• 44:46
  Alex: His biggest one that I've heard most frequently is that there's no way for an incumbent to really win this inevitability.
• 44:54
  Alex: I do agree with Sam that it's I I do believe it's inevitable, even if you're going through like a really kind of dark morale low time right now.
• 45:02
  Alex: And the thing I would agree with what um with what Solomon was talking about over on TikTok about in-game economies, we've seen this be successful.
• 45:10
  Alex: Yeah, right.
• 45:12
  Alex: Um some notable examples.
• 45:14
  Alex: RuneScape's economy is unbelievably um robust.
• 45:19
  Alex: You have inflation.
• 45:20
  Alex: There are there are supply and demand problems with different things that have that literally have to do with the accessibility to mining resources or cutting down a specific kind of tree and selling that log or fishing something specific or the ease at which a dungeon can be finished to get a very specific thing out of it that can change the economy.
• 45:40
  Alex: And for years that economy functioned with gold as the main currency, and then also a barter element with uh peer-to-peer trading.
• 45:50
  Alex: Like it was the most democratized open uh um economy that I've ever seen in the game at that point.
• 46:00
  Alex: And at that time, had they been able to token, there was a black market for gold, of course, right?
• 46:07
  Alex: Like people were selling RuneScape gold all over the place.
• 46:09
  Alex: Um, you know, you weren't supposed to do it, but people did it.
• 46:12
  Alex: Right?
• 46:13
  Alex: I mean, they try they tried to kill it and they couldn't.
• 46:15
  Alex: The desire for people to be able to transact that way is there.
• 46:19
  Alex: Yeah, hundreds of millions of players have played that game.
• 46:21
  Alex: And the thing that I always just wanted to wonder, like I I'm screaming this into the void.
• 46:27
  Alex: If we know that works, yeah, the V-buck economy.
• 46:32
  Alex: Yeah, right?
• 46:33
  Alex: That there's a there's an economy, Warcraft Gold, Testimoleons, it doesn't matter what it is, like uh clash of clans, gems.
• 46:42
  Alex: How much money has Supercell made from selling gems?
• 46:45
  Alex: Yeah, literally billions of dollars.
• 46:49
  Alex: Yeah, right?
• 46:50
  Alex: Um we know that works, yeah, but they did not launch any of those overnight.
• 46:56
  Alex: That thing did not drop and become popular, it didn't acquire players overnight.
• 47:02
  Alex: There were very dark times where RuneScape was in in hell.
• 47:07
  Alex: I mean, when they were trying to crack down on illegal player trading and they deleted the wilderness, the game almost died, right?
• 47:14
  Alex: Yeah, they changed uh trade that you could no longer give items to people for free.
• 47:19
  Alex: You had to exchange an item of equal value determined by the player economy, but still, right?
• 47:25
  Alex: So, like good times, dark times.
• 47:27
  Alex: Yep.
• 47:27
  Alex: Why has not a single crypto project, a single game, a single anything, ever shirked the idea of a flash in the pan marketing style with guerrilla tactics and a surprise airdrop and some hype campaign and a bunch of KOLs who all give up the second TGE happens?
• 47:47
  Alex: Why have we done that 25 million times, but we've never tried like a slow methodical building of awareness like over years with like a slow drip, slow burn, just like you know, good awareness building.
• 48:00
  Alex: Um uh what what's one game that's like smoking everybody right now?
• 48:04
  Alex: I feel like maybe you can correct me if I if I'm wrong.
• 48:07
  Alex: Um, but it feels like Pudgy Party has more players than anything else does, or at least legit.
• 48:13
  Iceyyy: But you know, it's interesting that you say that because I feel like Pudgy Party has been a little quiet lately.
• 48:20
  Iceyyy: And Pudgy, I listen, when Pudgy Party came out, it was fantastic.
• 48:23
  Iceyyy: I it's tough.
• 48:26
  Iceyyy: I on one hand, I want to I want to vote for it for game of the year.
• 48:29
  Iceyyy: Uh, I think it's like very much up there.
• 48:32
  Alex: Um, but it's also like I did, by the way, to prove a point or like to make a point that I respected the method of it of you know having a brand, having an IP that had been curated and cultivated.
• 48:45
  Alex: Yeah, my little putty right here for yeah, right there for for years.
• 48:49
  Alex: Yep.
• 48:50
  Alex: And then a game came out and there was no monetary element to it.
• 48:54
  Alex: Like I didn't have to do anything except download the app and give it a shot.
• 48:57
  Alex: Yeah.
• 48:58
  Alex: I I voted exclusively for that.
• 49:00
  Alex: Although off the grid was up there for me because again, accessibility, and I'm looking at it from the casual side, and I was like, the fact that the game is on my Xbox and I could go fire it up right now, and I do play it because it's genuinely fun.
• 49:11
  Alex: Yeah, was also that was a tough choice.
• 49:13
  Iceyyy: But that's that's about what it's a tough it's a tough choice.
• 49:16
  Iceyyy: They're both very, very deserving because off the grid actually won game of the year last year, even though it like it had just come out like maybe a month, six weeks before the award show.
• 49:26
  Iceyyy: Hype was strong, it just snuck in there, and you know, in many ways, deservedly so.
• 49:31
  Iceyyy: And they've had a really, really great year this year as well.
• 49:35
  Iceyyy: To your point about like the slow build and the slow burn.
• 49:39
  Iceyyy: You gotta give off the grid a lot of credit because I think that they have been very thoughtful, they've been very active, they have new content pack drops all the time.
• 49:50
  Iceyyy: They've shipped, they've almost been too active, where I cover it all the time on the news, and I'm like, I feel like so many things have happened that I wouldn't even know where to start now if I were to jump into the game because you've got news too much too much content.
• 50:06
  Iceyyy: Uh yeah, I've I've missed too much that like I'm out of the loop.
• 50:10
  Iceyyy: Um, but I I hear what you're saying.
• 50:14
  Iceyyy: Uh, you know, there and again, there are there's always gonna be games that are doing this.
• 50:20
  Iceyyy: I think Axie Infinity is one that still is going really strong.
• 50:24
  Iceyyy: I think they do like a hundred thousand dollars a month in fees, like revenue generated just from you know, uh marketplace volume and transactions.
• 50:35
  Iceyyy: So they are you know still doing really well and they've been parlaying that into their new builds.
• 50:40
  Iceyyy: But unfortunately, Alex, you know, and it's a tale as old as time, a lot of the crypto games, and it's the same thing for all these other crypto projects outside of gaming that we've seen.
• 50:53
  Iceyyy: It's like, if you show me the incentives, I'll show you the outcome.
• 50:58
  Iceyyy: And I think a lot of people have come into the space, you know, to to raise money, to you know, launch the token and not like deliver on on something revolutionary and and truly innovative, like you were saying, like all it can take sometimes is like one really great game mechanic, uh, one like really cool idea.
• 51:27
  Iceyyy: And uh, and I don't want to it's tough because on one hand, I like I'm always supportive of the builders and like uh compassionate towards them because I know a lot of people have really great intentions and and are not grifters or ruggers or scammers.
• 51:45
  Iceyyy: There's definitely probably been some, you know, been the case.
• 51:48
  Iceyyy: Sure.
• 51:49
  Iceyyy: Um, but at the same time, I just feel like maybe they started out with good intentions and then got co-opted, you know, along the path of like trying to looks like in crypto, you know, it's like it's like people are like, oh, but if you if we if we build a an L2, like then we're gonna be valued at a billion.
• 52:13
  Iceyyy: Like, you know what's cool within a billion?
• 52:15
  Iceyyy: Like a trillion.
• 52:16
  Iceyyy: And then people like to people build this stuff into their roadmaps and then just lose their self sell themselves along the way.
• 52:24
  Alex: I mean, the like you said too, the the VC element can come in and hit you later, too.
• 52:30
  Alex: Yeah, you get to the point where you're like, oh my god, this is so much more expensive than I thought it was gonna be.
• 52:34
  Alex: I simply have to get more money.
• 52:36
  Alex: My two options are either get it from my players, which is not great and will leave a bad taste in people's mouths, or outsource the fundraising, which is gonna cost you equity or supply, which is effectively the same thing.
• 52:48
  Iceyyy: And like you said, when you go to the VC, they're like, Cool, you want more money?
• 52:51
  Iceyyy: Like, here's what we want.
• 52:53
  Iceyyy: And then you're like forced into this path where you know, uh to be honest with you, man, I've been wanting to like go back and study more of like the the stories of these game studios and how like how did you do it?
• 53:06
  Iceyyy: Is it is it just the case that like things are so much more expensive and more competitive now because the gaming industry has you know ballooned to be the biggest that it's ever been.
• 53:16
  Iceyyy: I mean, there's a lot of like you know, factors and whatnot.
• 53:18
  Iceyyy: Obviously, it's luck as well.
• 53:20
  Iceyyy: Like the story of Grand Theft Auto was like pure chance, it was a bug in the code that that made like the cops like chase the robbers or whatever, and then they're like, Oh, this is like really fun.
• 53:31
  Iceyyy: And uh, but to me, like that's that's what I look for in gaming.
• 53:36
  Iceyyy: Like, those are the experiences that really speak to me as a gamer.
• 53:40
  Iceyyy: I grew up on you know, uh Zelda and Goldeneye, and then RuneScape as well.
• 53:45
  Iceyyy: And it was like it was every time I had this, you you like that first time playing those games was like this transformative experience, it was a whole new world of like wonder and uh like mystery, and it's just like wow, like this is I can't believe that this exists.
• 54:06
  Iceyyy: This is a marvel of modern technology, and and to me, that's what video gaming is it's pushing the boundaries of what a computer and game engine can produce to give you that experience.
• 54:24
  Iceyyy: And yes, of course, there's like you know, there's a wide range of games you can hop on remix and you know go down some some rabbit holes and have a whole bunch of fun, but like that's the stuff that inspires me as like from like an artistic standpoint that I just think is is you know the coolest thing in the world.
• 54:46
  Alex: Yeah, it really depends.
• 54:48
  Alex: I like you said, you know, what's the incentive, what's the what's the motive.
• 54:51
  Alex: I I think that if you can't define like what it is that people are supposed to do with your game though, and it I've kind of gotten the impression from some of the ones that I've messed with, um that they they feel really hard to place, you know, like why do I enjoy Clash?
• 55:08
  Alex: Because if I only have five minutes, I can still do something.
• 55:13
  Alex: Yeah.
• 55:14
  Alex: But I can also, you know, I can participate if I if I have an hour, you know, but I'm I'm there specifically for fast casual.
• 55:24
  Iceyyy: And they were like early to mobile, right?
• 55:26
  Iceyyy: And it was like, oh, this experience that I can have on my phone, like those you know, pivotal things just hook you, right?
• 55:33
  Alex: That's like we all see it's been out for 10 years, so it's you know, been here a minute.
• 55:37
  Iceyyy: Yeah, so many of us still use MetaMask because it was just like the first cool wallet that we ever used.
• 55:42
  Iceyyy: It's like I don't know, it's just cool, you know, it still works, but now it's like uh dude, I I hate MetaMask now.
• 55:48
  Iceyyy: It's like I can't use it, it's ununusable.
• 55:50
  Alex: And we've been spoiled with better options, but yeah, yeah, I don't know, man.
• 55:56
  Alex: It's it's really interesting to think about because you know, at the end of the day, there's gonna be more.
• 56:03
  Alex: We're gonna continue to see it.
• 56:05
  Alex: Like, are you seeing like a really measured slowdown like in development, or are you still seeing like a you know, a pretty measured clip of people at least trying stuff, or even if it's trying the same thing again, or is it is it falling off?
• 56:26
  Iceyyy: It's a really great question.
• 56:27
  Iceyyy: Again, it's like the tale of two bull markets or two cycles, because like we have really significant progress and shots on goal on goals, but then we also have a graveyard of examples that didn't work out.
• 56:47
  Iceyyy: I I think there's been like over 30 game closures this year that have been like really heartbreaking.
• 56:53
  Iceyyy: Um, you know, teams and games that like you know, we watched build and we were excited about and we believed in um, you know, a game like Nyan Heroes, which was like this cat mech shooter, it was like overworld uh Overwatch uh but with cats, and it was really fun.
• 57:09
  Iceyyy: Um, Pirate Nation was like another big one that you know it was a fully on-chain, super kind of fun little pirate RPG game, but like the team that was building that was um admit um don't uh can't pronounce his last name, but like he was literally one of the the co-creators of of Farmville.
• 57:29
  Iceyyy: So like we had these like really big uh prestigious veteran game developers and founders um that like you know weren't able to make it work, but then you but then you still have like really exciting games.
• 57:45
  Iceyyy: We've talked about off the grid, we've talked about wildcard.
• 57:48
  Iceyyy: Uh Project O is one that we have like seven right now that are like we're like basically pinning our our hopes on, and it's like these seven are like the last, you know, the last samurai.
• 58:02
  Iceyyy: And it's like one of these, you know, uh really needs to needs to make it work.
• 58:08
  Iceyyy: Otherwise, it's like, does the VC funding dry up and we go through a real kind of constriction in the market?
• 58:16
  Iceyyy: We've seen a lot of VC funding really dry up.
• 58:19
  Alex: I was gonna ask, is that that that has to be slowing down, right?
• 58:24
  Alex: I don't see as many raises for sure.
• 58:26
  Iceyyy: What 100%?
• 58:26
  Iceyyy: It's it's there's been glimmers and moments where it's like, oh, this team raised two million.
• 58:32
  Iceyyy: Uh Cambria is is a really good one that just raised two million and they've just raised multiple million five, I think.
• 58:39
  Iceyyy: Um, so that so like there's still things happening, but not at the scale that they were happening.
• 58:44
  Iceyyy: And for me, as like a uh operator in the space, it's like, well, we better show something for all of this money that has come in here, and like, you know, because yeah, like otherwise, what are we doing?
• 58:57
  Iceyyy: And we might go through this boom and bust cycle, which I thought that we kind of went through with the bear market, but 2025 continued like to the shore went out and a lot of people were swimming naked, uh, which is nature taking its course, and and so it's hard to be.
• 59:18
  Iceyyy: I'm trying to like pair my my sense of doom with uh with a sense of optimism.
• 59:25
  Iceyyy: Uh so uh yes, there are like uh some still good examples of games that are building.
• 59:31
  Iceyyy: Project O, like I was gonna say, yeah, uh, is being built by Kevin Lambert and uh and a really incredible qualified team.
• 59:39
  Iceyyy: Kevin Lambert like literally designed like solitaire, he like put solitaire on on PC.
• 59:45
  Iceyyy: He's like one of the most accomplished game developers in in the world.
• 59:49
  Iceyyy: Uh, and he's the coolest guy in the story with Project O is so cool, where they actually like raised money and were building their game for like a year and a half and had this like come to Jesus moment where they realized that their game wasn't fun and wasn't gonna work.
• 1:00:06
  Iceyyy: And they were like, We we either keep going down this path and fail, or we completely throw everything out and restart and and find something that you know is is gonna work and is is gonna be fun.
• 1:00:21
  Iceyyy: And they took that latter path and and for the past two years have been building Project O.
• 1:00:25
  Iceyyy: And it's this like really cool innovative card game that is bringing something new and creative to the space.
• 1:00:32
  Iceyyy: Um, so I'm excited about that.
• 1:00:35
  Iceyyy: But yeah, man, I mean, I don't know like how you're feeling about the general, like what's happening as well in in crypto.
• 1:00:44
  Iceyyy: Like, are you seeing that as well?
• 1:00:46
  Iceyyy: How is you know DeFi and and the spaces that you operate in, you know, like reacting to this weird cycle?
• 1:00:57
  Alex: It's so the the ultimate tie over is that when I talked to Peyton the other day, we were talking about DeFi because he was he was talking about the difficulty in creating engaging content around gaming, yeah.
• 1:01:11
  Alex: As uh with with how it stands, and you know, he talked about the desire to include and incorporate more DeFi related stuff.
• 1:01:20
  Alex: And my counterpoint was like the two are married naturally, yeah, because the crypto a healthy crypto element in the game world is is DeFi.
• 1:01:29
  Alex: Yep, that's what it is.
• 1:01:30
  Alex: It's uh it's a fun game mechanic with a series of things that are enjoyable to do that are you know inclusive of some sort of DeFi activity that you get to do.
• 1:01:40
  Alex: I mean that it otherwise, honestly, if that's not the goal, I would genuinely say don't include crypto.
• 1:01:47
  Alex: It's probably not worth it.
• 1:01:49
  Iceyyy: I'm with you, man.
• 1:01:50
  Iceyyy: I go back to the game that brought me into the space, is a game called Ice Poker, and they're really not doing doing much anymore.
• 1:01:58
  Iceyyy: Uh ultimately wasn't sustainable, but like it was exactly that.
• 1:02:02
  Iceyyy: Like it ticked off all of my boxes for what I would look for in a crypto-enabled game that could make it because poker is mass appeal, everyone knows poker, and they actually created a new category because poker is like the original play to earn.
• 1:02:22
  Iceyyy: We in like the hot narrative in gaming right in crypto gaming right now, is like risk to earn, which is like a wrapper for gambling, essentially.
• 1:02:33
  Alex: Um but poker gambling, yeah.
• 1:02:36
  Iceyyy: But poker is inherently financialized because it's a money game, yeah.
• 1:02:40
  Iceyyy: Uh, but is but it's a skill-based game where the best players are gonna earn the most money and players are gonna lose money, and that's what drives the economy.
• 1:02:48
  Iceyyy: And the house just takes a little bit of you know, rake, and is what it's called in poker, but it's like the transaction fee.
• 1:02:55
  Iceyyy: And so, like everything is built in and it's so primed for like crypto innovation.
• 1:03:01
  Iceyyy: And what Ice Poker had done was layered, they had a two-token system, and they which one was the governance, and the other one was the in-game currency that you earned through playing the game, but it was not like any everyone that played would earn.
• 1:03:20
  Iceyyy: It was you had to complete these quests and you had multipliers based on how much, like how much, how many chips you basically ended the day with.
• 1:03:29
  Iceyyy: Um, and that impacted like your token payout.
• 1:03:34
  Iceyyy: And I remember thinking about this, like to make it to bring it back to the crypto sense, it really felt like proof of work.
• 1:03:40
  Iceyyy: Like miners will do Sudoku puzzles to like mine Bitcoin, and like players in ice poker basically solved poker puzzles, you know, playing the game to earn the the token reward.
• 1:03:55
  Iceyyy: They put in their work to get the the tokens, and then they layered on their website, it was beautiful.
• 1:04:01
  Iceyyy: They had like you could stake the tokens, you could buy NFTs to uh increase your rewards and your multipliers, and like it was this beautiful integration of crypto, and it really like opened my mind to how crypto gaming was gonna like be the future.
• 1:04:22
  Iceyyy: Um, the unfortunate thing is that they just didn't have enough player base and sustainability and the token models to like make that work, but uh I'm not convinced that something like that can't be made to work.
• 1:04:36
  Iceyyy: Um, but I agree with you, like as a DeFi guy at the time that you know was always a gamer, that combined my love of gaming, my you know, my degenism with poker, and then also like my fascination with crypto.
• 1:04:52
  Iceyyy: And it was this perfect like thing that I'm just like, I'm I guess I'm still chasing ever since.
• 1:04:59
  Iceyyy: I'm like, I'm going all in on crypto gaming because this is gonna be amazing.
• 1:05:03
  Iceyyy: Because that's what gamers love to do, right?
• 1:05:04
  Iceyyy: We're min-maxing, you know, our different skill trees and our different you know loadouts and and our strategies, and and there is a way to make that work, I believe, with with with a token economy that is like DeFi, because you can take all that stuff to to to Uniswap and then do stuff, or to open C and then do stuff, and yeah, like you said, yeah, take it somewhere because you can really pollute the game experience by over monetizing the actual game experience, which can kill immersion.
• 1:05:39
  Alex: And if we're talking about you know going into a game to have a little bit of escapism, then I don't wanna I don't wanna have to stop to do something transactory.
• 1:05:52
  Alex: You know what I mean?
• 1:05:53
  Alex: Like I would rather not be interrupted while I'm exploring in Skyrim to do something monetary that takes me out of the game element.
• 1:06:03
  Alex: I would rather go do that somewhere else after the fact.
• 1:06:05
  Alex: Like when I'm sitting down and it's late at night and I'm like like magic, okay?
• 1:06:09
  Alex: So I play a lot of magic.
• 1:06:10
  Alex: Um the physical card game.
• 1:06:13
  Alex: I actually never really got into arena that much.
• 1:06:15
  Alex: And if I'm like playing, I'm playing.
• 1:06:19
  Alex: Like the I've got the deck, you're shuffled up, you're playing with your friends doing whatever.
• 1:06:23
  Alex: I don't want to think about anything else.
• 1:06:25
  Alex: Yeah, but sometimes like if I have a magic evening, I'll literally just sit there with cards and I'm like, you know, on the forums, like talking about different card mechanics and how this card works with that card and whatever, and like making purchases and you know, buying some cards and tweaking decks and doing all that kind of stuff.
• 1:06:39
  Alex: It's two totally separate things.
• 1:06:40
  Alex: One cannot survive without the other, though.
• 1:06:42
  Alex: Yeah, I mean, so to answer your question, I think the entirety of crypto is in the exact same place.
• 1:06:48
  Alex: I think you guys put such a bright spotlight on gaming as a niche that it really, really sticks out to you that that's the case.
• 1:06:56
  Alex: But if we were to shine that same caliber of spotlight on quite literally anything else, you're gonna see a lot of languishing.
• 1:07:02
  Alex: Like, just to prove a point here, if you look at just Bitcoin on one on a one year, and this is just the coin gecko chart, yeah.
• 1:07:11
  Alex: I mean, like, look at this line, right?
• 1:07:13
  Alex: Like, what are we looking at here?
• 1:07:14
  Alex: It you know, we we crossed a hundred last December, and we've been in and around ever since.
• 1:07:20
  Alex: And I mean, do you you you commented on it right when we kicked off?
• 1:07:22
  Alex: You remember initially $100,000 Bitcoin?
• 1:07:25
  Alex: Yeah, we said at the time, at some point we're gonna be like, Man, now we're down to a hundred.
• 1:07:30
  Alex: We are at that point right now, yeah.
• 1:07:33
  Alex: And you and I both know that at some point in the future we're gonna say, Man, we're down to 500.
• 1:07:37
  Alex: And we're down to a million, right?
• 1:07:40
  Alex: Yeah, but and at the time it's gonna feel awful, yeah.
• 1:07:44
  Alex: Thinking about it now, you know.
• 1:07:47
  Alex: So the length of time that we've been like languishing at these different points is is infecting everything, they all look like this, yeah.
• 1:07:55
  Alex: I mean, you know, if you pick anything, right?
• 1:07:58
  Iceyyy: Like ETH, oh right, it's such a good example, it's such a good point.
• 1:08:02
  Iceyyy: Like, you do have to zoom out.
• 1:08:04
  Iceyyy: I guess like can we like can we talk content?
• 1:08:07
  Iceyyy: Like how how because you do this every day, you live and breathe this space, you're building a business in this space, just like I'm building a business, you know, content media business and empire in such a wild, wild west of ups and downs.
• 1:08:28
  Iceyyy: How do you survive?
• 1:08:31
  Iceyyy: How do you manage?
• 1:08:32
  Iceyyy: How do you how are you thinking about your work?
• 1:08:36
  Iceyyy: And I think your work is so important, right?
• 1:08:38
  Iceyyy: Um bringing education and integrity and morals and principles and fun and entertainment and content to uh to a very you know like diverse and up and down chaotic space.
• 1:08:58
  Iceyyy: Like, I don't know if I'm just getting burnt out or just like exhausted from the site.
• 1:09:05
  Iceyyy: I need a vacation, I need to go touch some grass, I guess.
• 1:09:08
  Iceyyy: I don't know.
• 1:09:08
  Iceyyy: But how do you how do you think about being a being a content creator in crypto?
• 1:09:14
  Alex: First of all, you do need a break.
• 1:09:17
  Alex: Um and I just moved to the beach, so you should just come hang out.
• 1:09:22
  Alex: Uh have a little real-world escapism.
• 1:09:26
  Alex: Yeah, um, it's a great question.
• 1:09:28
  Alex: It's defined the uh entire way that we have approached doing all of this.
• 1:09:32
  Alex: I don't care what the price of anything is.
• 1:09:38
  Alex: I'm so not interested because we've never created like trading content.
• 1:09:42
  Alex: I've I don't I've never sat here and tried to just like pretend to anyone who cares to give me some of their time, which by the way is unbelievably generous.
• 1:09:52
  Alex: Uh so try to first reckon with the fact that like a human being who could be doing literally anything else in the world is sitting here watching me talk.
• 1:10:00
  Alex: Yeah.
• 1:10:01
  Alex: So first like weigh the immensity of that, and then think about like, okay, well, what is genuinely helpful and valuable to someone who is giving you their time and it's teaching a skill.
• 1:10:13
  Alex: And so I'm like, okay, well, what skills do I have that might be more unique or rarer?
• 1:10:20
  Alex: And it's it's this because I just no-lifed it for several years and obsessively learned and fucked everything up and lost a bunch of money and made a lot of mistakes.
• 1:10:30
  Alex: And okay, so now we can talk about that.
• 1:10:32
  Alex: And from there, you can pull all of these lessons that are important skills that you need to learn.
• 1:10:37
  Alex: And the time when the market is boring as hell is the best time to learn that.
• 1:10:42
  Alex: So it never gets actually it gets more exciting and invigorating to talk about it because like we have time to sit here and figure this out right now.
• 1:10:50
  Alex: The most common question that we get on any show, any platform ever is how to get into cold storage, which is why we so aggressively chased Arculus um as a sponsor because it's it was such a wasted opportunity for someone trying to build a brand.
• 1:11:09
  Alex: And so, you know, you look through like who's doing a good job, who has a killer product, who has a good experience, and I want to work with you because this comes up all the time.
• 1:11:16
  Alex: This is the most the point of the most concern of anyone is like, how do I keep what I have safe?
• 1:11:21
  Alex: Uh and from there, it was and that snowballs into everything.
• 1:11:25
  Alex: Okay, well, so what am I keeping it safe from?
• 1:11:27
  Alex: Okay, well, we need to talk about scams and how they how they started and what kinds of scams are popular right now.
• 1:11:34
  Alex: What might you be encountering?
• 1:11:35
  Alex: How do you defend yourself from it?
• 1:11:36
  Alex: What to be aware of?
• 1:11:37
  Alex: Okay, uh, well, also let's chase down this custody thing.
• 1:11:40
  Alex: First of all, what the hell is custody?
• 1:11:42
  Alex: Why does that matter?
• 1:11:43
  Alex: What are any of us doing here that you know requires me to consider being my own bank?
• 1:11:48
  Alex: Why?
• 1:11:49
  Alex: Okay, well, let's talk about banks and how they work and why any of this industry even exists in the first place.
• 1:11:54
  Iceyyy: Yeah.
• 1:11:55
  Iceyyy: And I love that, man.
• 1:11:57
  Iceyyy: Sorry to cut you off.
• 1:11:58
  Iceyyy: I just like I resonate with that so much because that's I always talk about having a North Star, and that has been my guiding light through through the ups and downs.
• 1:12:09
  Iceyyy: So it's really refreshing to hear that because I think we align on having a principled value-driven uh approach.
• 1:12:17
  Iceyyy: So I really love that.
• 1:12:19
  Iceyyy: I hope, you know, I I think we had Vixbob in the chat earlier.
• 1:12:22
  Iceyyy: Uh he does a bunch of clips.
• 1:12:23
  Iceyyy: Like, you got to clip that one up, man.
• 1:12:24
  Iceyyy: That was a banger.
• 1:12:25
  Iceyyy: You absolutely crushed that.
• 1:12:26
  Iceyyy: Big shout out to Kobe Streams and uh and Anspar uh in the in the chat as well.
• 1:12:32
  Iceyyy: Like it's really cool and it's a testament to what you what you've done.
• 1:12:36
  Iceyyy: Um, Kobe was saying like the conversation is providing real value with real takes, and and I love that that's what the rise up morning show and rise up after dark is all about.
• 1:12:45
  Iceyyy: I wanted to ask you, Alex, because like again, congratulations on Arculus.
• 1:12:49
  Iceyyy: Uh so so proud and happy and excited for you guys to to be working with with great projects.
• 1:12:56
  Iceyyy: I am unfamiliar with Arculus, so this is like not to like give you an opportunity to shill, but really curious how their uh product solves the cold storage problem because I have I deal with that, so I haven't been here to catch catch the the solution.
• 1:13:13
  Iceyyy: So if I can selfishly ask you that for a second, like how does that work?
• 1:13:18
  Alex: You can absolutely ask me to plug one of our sponsors, that's totally fine.
• 1:13:23
  Alex: Um yeah, so on the when I started in crypto, my first cold storage was a was a Trezor Model T.
• 1:13:31
  Alex: I still have it.
• 1:13:32
  Alex: Yep, yep.
• 1:13:33
  Alex: Um good wallet, yeah.
• 1:13:35
  Alex: Like I didn't have any issues with it.
• 1:13:37
  Alex: I kind of liked it despite the fact that it was a little complicated.
• 1:13:39
  Alex: Like, yeah, you know, I can tell you, you know, the butt view used it right.
• 1:13:44
  Alex: Yeah, I mean I had the the touch screen one, yeah.
• 1:13:46
  Alex: Oh nice, and but it was really tiny.
• 1:13:49
  Alex: So punching in the I fucked up the pin, dude.
• 1:13:51
  Alex: I one time I typed in the pin wrong and I was so scared to try it again that I liked to put it back in the desk drawer and I didn't touch it for like another week.
• 1:13:57
  Iceyyy: Dude, I almost did that today with my uh like my pin code for Twitter DM encrypted, they got encrypted.
• 1:14:03
  Iceyyy: I'm like, I don't know my pin.
• 1:14:04
  Iceyyy: Like, what the heck?
• 1:14:06
  Alex: I okay.
• 1:14:06
  Alex: I just saw that this morning.
• 1:14:07
  Alex: It was like, I don't recall ever setting a pin.
• 1:14:11
  Iceyyy: Yeah.
• 1:14:11
  Iceyyy: Uh but you can go on your the spoilers, you can go on your phone and like change it, which I think is like setting it for the first time or something.
• 1:14:19
  Iceyyy: So you can get through it.
• 1:14:21
  Alex: Good to know.
• 1:14:22
  Alex: Yeah, I just took a guess and I was like, oh, that's right.
• 1:14:24
  Alex: Okay, I guess I need more variability in my pins.
• 1:14:26
  Alex: Yeah, for real.
• 1:14:27
  Alex: Um, but so anyway, so you know the experience wasn't great, but I figured it out and it was good, and I just figured this is just the price that you have to pay for self-custody.
• 1:14:35
  Alex: Um, let me ask you this.
• 1:14:37
  Alex: Do you have any um have you ever had a metal credit card?
• 1:14:41
  Alex: Um, no, but I've seen them.
• 1:14:44
  Alex: I've seen all the cool kids with their clink, clink, clink.
• 1:14:47
  Alex: Yep.
• 1:14:48
  Alex: So the same company that makes Arculus wallets makes all of those cards.
• 1:14:53
  Alex: It's called Compo Secure.
• 1:14:55
  Alex: Huge company.
• 1:14:56
  Alex: Uh they offer cold storage crypto solutions as well.
• 1:15:00
  Alex: And I met them at Consensus in 2022 and or no, sorry, 23.
• 1:15:06
  Alex: It was the next one, not my first consensus.
• 1:15:08
  Alex: And I just said, hey, I've you know, seen the name, never used one, and they gave me one for free and asked me if I wanted to try it.
• 1:15:16
  Alex: And I was like, Yep, sure.
• 1:15:18
  Alex: I'm you know, I make content, so I should probably use this one.
• 1:15:21
  Alex: I've never used it before.
• 1:15:22
  Alex: And I just fell in love with like how easy it was compared to whatever.
• 1:15:26
  Alex: So I at that point, then I was maintaining two um wallets.
• 1:15:30
  Alex: I used the Arculus as like a walking around, like fast, high velocity cold storage because you can carry it with you, um, you can use it on your phone, but it's still air gapped, it's you know, top of the line uh from a security standpoint.
• 1:15:44
  Alex: It's very hard to corrupt and hack and all that good stuff.
• 1:15:48
  Alex: All the things that you would want to see in a company.
• 1:15:51
  Alex: Sterling track record of exploit free.
• 1:15:54
  Alex: Um and and then and they just had a killer brand.
• 1:16:00
  Alex: Like that was a big part.
• 1:16:01
  Alex: I was like really interested in the idea of trying to use cold storage to help tell the story about why it matters, because that's like the reason why we're all here in the first place, right?
• 1:16:11
  Alex: So um their system works in a little bit of a unique way compared to some of the other ones.
• 1:16:17
  Alex: So, you know, for my Trezor, I plug it into the computer and then I can put the pin number into the thing and do that whole deal, and I have to use this dashboard software, whatever.
• 1:16:26
  Alex: Um, Arculus is NFC, uh, it's an NFC tag inside.
• 1:16:30
  Alex: It's really nice because it's it's permanent, there's no firmware updates, so it never goes out of style.
• 1:16:35
  Alex: Yeah, we just make a new one.
• 1:16:37
  Alex: Um, but you know, just like we're seeing kind of for the first time with Ledger uh discontinuing software service for the S, right?
• 1:16:44
  Alex: Like that's not a that's not a thing.
• 1:16:46
  Alex: Don't you're not gonna have that.
• 1:16:47
  Alex: Um, it's a medium that everyone's familiar with.
• 1:16:49
  Alex: Everyone we're we have tap to pay on everything now.
• 1:16:52
  Alex: Yeah, um, and then it's three-factor authentication for access to it, and it's just really fast.
• 1:16:58
  Alex: So it's something biometric, something non-biometric, and then the card itself.
• 1:17:01
  Alex: Oh, I'm gonna go.
• 1:17:02
  Alex: So they call it something you are, something you have, and something you know.
• 1:17:05
  Alex: You know a pin, you have the card, and you are your fingerprint, your face ID, or whatever.
• 1:17:10
  Alex: And without any one of those three, you can't do anything.
• 1:17:13
  Alex: Um that's fire.
• 1:17:15
  Alex: Yeah, it's it's super fast, it's really convenient, and I really liked it, and they're sweethearts to work with.
• 1:17:20
  Alex: And we're doing a uh we're doing a a co-branded one.
• 1:17:23
  Alex: They're making a purple wallet, which is best when the partners are like so aligned, man.
• 1:17:30
  Iceyyy: That that's awesome.
• 1:17:30
  Iceyyy: Shout out to Arculus, man.
• 1:17:32
  Iceyyy: I'm getting one, I'm getting one to support the boys.
• 1:17:34
  Iceyyy: When that drops, let me know, dude.
• 1:17:36
  Iceyyy: I got I gotta do it.
• 1:17:36
  Alex: I'll put you on the list for a purple one.
• 1:17:38
  Alex: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:17:38
  Alex: I need I need one of those.
• 1:17:40
  Alex: We're we're collecting names.
• 1:17:41
  Alex: Um, but yeah, no, it's and and then like I said, I we were telling them I Cold Storage comes up all the time.
• 1:17:46
  Alex: And one of the things that I sold them on, um, which they were into to their credit, was we're gonna talk about other wallets.
• 1:17:55
  Alex: Yeah, because I mean let you behind the marketing curtain for a quick second.
• 1:17:59
  Alex: The highest value customer to a brand is an informed customer.
• 1:18:04
  Alex: I don't care what anybody says.
• 1:18:05
  Alex: Yeah, don't scare someone into buying your shit.
• 1:18:08
  Alex: Don't like don't overhype someone into buying your stuff.
• 1:18:11
  Alex: Genuinely teach them why your thing is good.
• 1:18:14
  Alex: And guess what?
• 1:18:15
  Alex: If it's not good, they'll tell you, and then you have something to work on.
• 1:18:17
  Alex: Feedback is invaluable.
• 1:18:18
  Alex: Um, but the best way to inform someone who is making a decision about something to purchase, if someone's gonna spend their money on your thing, they should know what else is out there and why yours is the better one.
• 1:18:28
  Iceyyy: Yeah.
• 1:18:29
  Alex: So comparative analysis.
• 1:18:30
  Alex: Do that with everything.
• 1:18:31
  Alex: So Jito, Jito is another sponsor of the Rise of Morning Show, and I use DeFi on a whole bunch of different platforms, and I've had a whole myriad of different experiences, staking in a bunch of different places, you know, uh borrowing and lending in different places, supplying collateral in different places, all this kind of stuff, trading, whatever, swapping, etc.
• 1:18:49
  Alex: Why do I enjoy doing it there?
• 1:18:53
  Alex: And what is it, what is it about that platform that I enjoy?
• 1:18:57
  Alex: And I can talk about the fact that it's so nice it's all in the same place.
• 1:19:00
  Alex: And I can supply and lend, I can stake, I can loop, I can restake, I can do all this kind of liquid stake, I can do all of it in the same spot, and it's super fun.
• 1:19:08
  Alex: And it's in a an ecosystem that actually has users and makes revenue and does all this stuff, right?
• 1:19:13
  Iceyyy: Um so you know, in that they're on Solana, right?
• 1:19:17
  Iceyyy: Are they only on Solana or is that are they branched out?
• 1:19:20
  Alex: Yeah, it's a Solana, yep, Solana protocol.
• 1:19:23
  Alex: You know, but uh Marinade is another friend of the show, they offer staking, native staking, and liquid staking.
• 1:19:29
  Alex: And so, you know, my pitch to them too was informed, informed comparison, comparative analysis between two different staking platforms.
• 1:19:37
  Alex: Why might you choose one versus the other?
• 1:19:39
  Alex: Uh, retention is so much better when people like know what the options are and can make a decision that's not based on like someone trying to scare the shit out of you to get you to give them their money.
• 1:19:49
  Iceyyy: Yeah, I love that man.
• 1:19:51
  Iceyyy: I love that.
• 1:19:52
  Iceyyy: I that's the right way to do it.
• 1:19:53
  Iceyyy: Uh, I also like from we run a news channel, so we talk about competitive, like you know, what would be viewed as competitive.
• 1:20:00
  Iceyyy: I just anything that's interesting to me, anyone that's like doing something compelling or or good for the space, like we talk about.
• 1:20:09
  Iceyyy: And I I think that's that's the right way uh to do it.
• 1:20:13
  Iceyyy: And like, yeah, talking about things that you actually use and and you know, enjoy and love.
• 1:20:18
  Iceyyy: Like we have a game that we work with, and um, I was never a TCG player.
• 1:20:22
  Iceyyy: It's cool that you're into magic.
• 1:20:23
  Iceyyy: I was never into TCGs.
• 1:20:25
  Iceyyy: Uh, I work with a game called SoulForge Fusion, and like they turned me into a TCG player because like the game is easy to learn, hard to master, that classic kind of thing, uh, and just really, really solid and fun.
• 1:20:37
  Iceyyy: And they have like a really active player base.
• 1:20:39
  Iceyyy: The problem with a lot of crypto games is that you try and play them and like they're the lobbies are dead, or the game crashes.
• 1:20:46
  Iceyyy: And so Soulforge Fusion has just been a great game.
• 1:20:48
  Iceyyy: I didn't mean to turn this into a SoulForge chill.
• 1:20:50
  Iceyyy: I'm just like speaking to creators, like working with brands that you're you love and you're excited uh about that you would talk about anyways or or use anyways.
• 1:21:00
  Iceyyy: It's it's the best thing.
• 1:21:01
  Iceyyy: But I did want to ask you.
• 1:21:03
  Alex: Oh, go ahead.
• 1:21:03
  Alex: You remember the first, the first when you and I first started talking, you gave me some help and some advice on the Twitter side of things.
• 1:21:11
  Alex: I was just awful and non-existent there.
• 1:21:14
  Alex: And I'm definitely slacking, but still think about it all the time.
• 1:21:17
  Alex: And you you left one the first time you ever said a tweet was a banger was about this exact topic.
• 1:21:22
  Iceyyy: Yeah.
• 1:21:23
  Alex: When I just said if you're not excited to tell your people about the sponsorship you just got, you shouldn't, you shouldn't take it.
• 1:21:29
  Iceyyy: Yeah.
• 1:21:29
  Alex: Uh so I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
• 1:21:31
  Alex: I mean, if I if I wasn't super stoked to get up here and talk about the people who are like supporting and making the show possible, for one, that's a dollar I don't have to try to figure out how to get out of an audience.
• 1:21:43
  Alex: Yeah, that's not it, that's never a good a great feeling.
• 1:21:46
  Alex: Um, and two, isn't that what we're doing here?
• 1:21:50
  Alex: We like we want to push the brands that are like doing a good job, yeah.
• 1:21:54
  Alex: And uh you know, tell more people about it.
• 1:21:56
  Alex: So no, I don't feel bad about it.
• 1:21:57
  Alex: And actually, I'm gonna force you to show yourself in a second.
• 1:22:00
  Alex: Um show us the award that you are in the running for, uh, one that has been won by a few names that we're all familiar with, right?
• 1:22:08
  Alex: Bright uh Bryson and Sam and uh Yellow Panther.
• 1:22:12
  Alex: Yep.
• 1:22:12
  Alex: I want to say that YP.
• 1:22:13
  Alex: So um I'm gonna I'm gonna force you to do a show for yourself in a second because you're you're a nominee this year.
• 1:22:21
  Iceyyy: Yeah, man.
• 1:22:22
  Iceyyy: Very excited.
• 1:22:23
  Iceyyy: Um, so for anyone watching, uh yeah, I operate in the crypto gaming space, and we have a it's the fourth year running a really big crypto gaming award show.
• 1:22:37
  Iceyyy: Uh it's which is like I love it, it's put on by an organization called Games, games.gg, uh spelled with a three because you know, we're crypto bros over here, you know.
• 1:22:47
  Iceyyy: Gotta do uh web three for the win.
• 1:22:50
  Iceyyy: Can't make anything easy either, you know.
• 1:22:52
  Iceyyy: Uh, but games gg, like just speaking about like good actors in the space and people trying to like push things forward, you know, they are a media outlet that you know they write game reviews and that it's a you know game discovery hub, and it they've just been a great uh um brand and IP in the industry pushing gaming forward.
• 1:23:16
  Iceyyy: And this is their fourth year of running this award show.
• 1:23:19
  Iceyyy: Uh, it's going down in Manila live.
• 1:23:22
  Iceyyy: They have this beautiful uh uh auditorium, they really go all out.
• 1:23:28
  Iceyyy: It makes me so proud as a crypto gamer in a very tiny, small niche, and that's what's fun, Alex, about like being a pioneer to this early thing that like you know, not that many people know about, and you're trying to like pave this path forward.
• 1:23:46
  Iceyyy: It's hard and difficult, but that's also what makes it rewarding, uh, that challenge.
• 1:23:51
  Iceyyy: And so, like, I just have this like huge affinity to the pioneers, like Kobe in the chat, and like you know, everyone tuning in on TikTok who are like, like you said, giving their time and energy to this really interesting, sometimes chaotic, but also beautiful industry and weird world that we're in, connecting from all over the planet, you know, through our phones and through an internet connection.
• 1:24:17
  Iceyyy: Um, so it's cool, man.
• 1:24:19
  Iceyyy: It's cool to like be a part of that.
• 1:24:21
  Iceyyy: And games has been doing it like no other.
• 1:24:23
  Iceyyy: And so, yeah, we uh we are in the running for content creator of the year.
• 1:24:28
  Iceyyy: They've got you know, game of the year, best mobile game, all the traditional kind of uh award categories.
• 1:24:34
  Iceyyy: And if anyone's a gamer who's tuning in, you might know of like the traditional gaming version of this award show, which is like I think like 24, 25 years in the running, uh, hosted by um Jeff Keeley, who's you know gaming legend, uh, very, very fun.
• 1:24:55
  Iceyyy: You know, uh, this is where uh you know what was the game of the year last year, Black Myth Wukong.
• 1:25:02
  Iceyyy: Um, so yeah, they do a really cool production.
• 1:25:05
  Iceyyy: Uh we have been working hard and we are uh we've got a good shot, uh, Alex.
• 1:25:12
  Iceyyy: We've got a really good shot at winning this year uh through our daily news video, through a time when you know gaming had its ups and its downs.
• 1:25:23
  Iceyyy: We were one of the most consistent uh with our news show.
• 1:25:28
  Iceyyy: And and so, you know, our our boy Sam won it two years ago, our boy Yellow Panther won it.
• 1:25:35
  Iceyyy: Bryson won the first ever.
• 1:25:37
  Iceyyy: Uh, I was there for that.
• 1:25:39
  Iceyyy: And I remember when that happened.
• 1:25:41
  Alex: That was the first time I found Bryson was from that win.
• 1:25:44
  Iceyyy: Yeah, and I was there for Sam.
• 1:25:46
  Iceyyy: I was watching live and I was rooting for him, and I even reacted to, I think I was streaming, I reacted to it live.
• 1:25:51
  Iceyyy: We were there in Manila last year for Yellow Panther, and hopefully, you know, we we've earned our our spot this year.
• 1:26:00
  Iceyyy: I would love to take it down.
• 1:26:01
  Iceyyy: It would be an incredible achievement and you know, uh just crowning moment of all of our hard work, and it'd be really cool for our partners to bring it home.
• 1:26:13
  Iceyyy: But you know what, Alex, like even the rec, I've I've received so much love and an outpour of support that really that recognition is more than I could have ever dreamed about, genuinely.
• 1:26:25
  Iceyyy: Um, we all started on crypto Twitter or TikTok with you know zero followers, right?
• 1:26:33
  Iceyyy: And to get to the point, hey, there we go, look at that.
• 1:26:36
  Iceyyy: My guys voted for me.
• 1:26:37
  Iceyyy: I appreciate you so much, man.
• 1:26:39
  Iceyyy: Much love.
• 1:26:39
  Iceyyy: Of course, like it's just such a dream come true, like you were saying, to be able to do what we're doing, uh, to chase after our dreams and our passions, uh, and have people that find that interesting and care and show up.
• 1:26:53
  Iceyyy: So I'm I'm more than blessed.
• 1:26:55
  Iceyyy: I've always like just tried to be about the work.
• 1:26:59
  Iceyyy: I want my work to speak for itself.
• 1:27:01
  Iceyyy: Uh, and I'm so I'm really proud that we've you know made over 250 daily news videos over the past year covering every single game and every single story and headline.
• 1:27:14
  Iceyyy: And you know, I've got an incredible team.
• 1:27:17
  Iceyyy: Uh, that's the like the fun part of like having a creator business is is you build a team of people around you that you work with, whether it's like you know, we've got a researcher and I've an assistant who helps me out and you know, helps with B D and things like that.
• 1:27:33
  Iceyyy: And uh, you know, we work with you know some really amazing talented editors who like work on our videos like to get them out, you know, in in the same time.
• 1:27:43
  Iceyyy: So, you know, that's been it's been a dream come true.
• 1:27:47
  Iceyyy: Um, if anyone's watching and you you like what we've what we've said, you can go to games.gg and and vote.
• 1:27:54
  Iceyyy: Uh, you could vote for me, you could vote for somebody else.
• 1:27:56
  Iceyyy: Every vote matters.
• 1:27:58
  Iceyyy: Um, it's a super, super cool thing that's just happening as well.
• 1:28:03
  Iceyyy: Like if you're if you're interested in anything that we've been talking about, um, the award show voting ends on Sunday.
• 1:28:10
  Iceyyy: So go vote now.
• 1:28:11
  Iceyyy: Go vote now.
• 1:28:12
  Iceyyy: Twit TikTok.
• 1:28:13
  Iceyyy: I'm looking at you.
• 1:28:13
  Iceyyy: Go vote now.
• 1:28:14
  Alex: And I'll have the link.
• 1:28:15
  Alex: I'll have the link in circle.
• 1:28:17
  Iceyyy: But the award, the award show, yeah, that's amazing.
• 1:28:19
  Iceyyy: Thank you.
• 1:28:20
  Iceyyy: The award show is gonna be live, broadcasted live from Manila, the Philippines, the home, the hub of what uh Web3 Crypto Gaming.
• 1:28:29
  Iceyyy: Are you going?
• 1:28:29
  Iceyyy: Uh yeah, yeah.
• 1:28:30
  Iceyyy: I'm fly out Saturday, 22 hours to the Philippines.
• 1:28:35
  Alex: We'll be there all week.
• 1:28:36
  Alex: Sam and uh and Peyton very graciously invited me, and I really wanted to go.
• 1:28:41
  Alex: I I do want to go.
• 1:28:43
  Alex: Um I just couldn't couldn't swing the travel in that time frame.
• 1:28:48
  Alex: And then I realized that the only reason I wanted to go was to hang out with you guys, and I was like, okay, that's probably not a good enough reason.
• 1:28:54
  Alex: But uh I jealous, I'll be watching.
• 1:28:58
  Iceyyy: I understand the uh the desire very, very much.
• 1:29:02
  Iceyyy: And thank you for allowing me to come on your your your platform and and show myself.
• 1:29:06
  Iceyyy: Um shameless plug.
• 1:29:08
  Iceyyy: Uh but yeah, man, I mean, we gotta hang out uh at some point.
• 1:29:13
  Iceyyy: I have like been a hermit much of this year, uh just me too.
• 1:29:18
  Iceyyy: Banging out those videos, right?
• 1:29:20
  Alex: Um it's a lot, dude.
• 1:29:21
  Alex: I I remember I remember the the daily grind like on a specific series.
• 1:29:26
  Alex: I did um rapid fire crypto news for 400 days straight, and on the 401st day, I was like, okay, uh animal beast.
• 1:29:35
  Alex: I'm gonna do something else.
• 1:29:36
  Alex: Yeah, I will say the production is not what was not what you guys were doing.
• 1:29:41
  Alex: It was a single TikTok, you know.
• 1:29:43
  Alex: Actually, I I will say some of my favorite videos that I ever did were in that series, though.
• 1:29:47
  Alex: I did one from the helicopter while I was uh while while we were flying, and you couldn't do any sound, so I had to do like a voiceover at the end.
• 1:29:56
  Iceyyy: Yeah.
• 1:29:57
  Alex: But uh that's a it's a grind, man, to to make one thing that you do every day.
• 1:30:03
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:30:03
  Alex: And now you're pushing a year.
• 1:30:05
  Alex: I mean, obviously you're gonna hit you're gonna hit a year.
• 1:30:07
  Alex: You have to, right?
• 1:30:08
  Iceyyy: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:30:09
  Iceyyy: No.
• 1:30:09
  Iceyyy: Well are we hit the year anniversary of uh because we do it um we don't do weekends.
• 1:30:15
  Iceyyy: So it's September 9th was like the one year anniversary.
• 1:30:19
  Iceyyy: But yeah we're we're going into we're going until the wheels fall off.
• 1:30:24
  Iceyyy: Um how long does it take to put one together from start to finish?
• 1:30:28
  Iceyyy: Great question man.
• 1:30:32
  Iceyyy: It's still probably like a six to seven hour process but we have it really we have our system really down pat like we have a full-time researcher that is researching you know these stories and like we're building a media platform so we post a lot of a lot of media on our Twitter account breaking news this just happened then we come together and we decide on we review 30 40 headlines uh and pick like the top you know eight that like okay this is what we have to talk about this is what we want to talk about um and then we get to like research right like you know we'll spend another hour or two researching and writing uh the scripts to be like okay how do we because we try and put like break it down in a short amount of time but also be thorough and comprehensive so there's like two hours of of scripting which like you know we're pulling other res resources and and research in there and then filming and then editing and then posting and you know do that every day but like one of my early inspirations just in content was like Phil DeFranco uh who does like you know news on YouTube and it's like if he can do it still yeah still still still one of the first youtubers I ever subscribed to he was he was in my original three was Jenna marbles Philip DeFranco and Ryan Higa yeah the original like YouTubers that I subscribed to and then followed religiously yeah still going and I mean he's everywhere he's so good I would love that that's one of my like secret ambitions in getting into content was that some of those people who like shaped the desire that I had to do that same thing I was like I would love to sit down with Phil DeFranco especially because we do we cross you know streams a lot with the uh with just the idea of current events even though they're kind of tan he's very much you know geopolitic focused versus just you know markets and crypto but yeah it's all connected I would dude shout out shout out shout out Phil many shout out but like Philly D you know legend beautiful bastards you know come on now um yeah no and and doing it with integrity right and doing it homegrown um you know your own team independent um it's it's really cool man so that's one of the things that inspires me um and you know it's like I mean their their bar for quality is so high because it's like yeah I mean they're 20 minute videos and incredibly well researched every day on time but yeah man how are you thinking about content in crypto going into 2026 how is your audience how are like how what's the vibe what's the sentiment it's it's been a weird year we don't know if the four year cycle like that stuff like how are you looking at at the end of the year and then 2026 is right around the corner well so again I'm not really too much focused on trying to guess what the price of anything is going to do um so we're right now what we're doing is uh kind of getting ready for tax season honestly I'm working on like lining up some some different guests our accountants coming on to do some like tax efficiency planning so as you head into the end of December you know make the decision about you know to wash trade or not to wash trade uh still legal in crypto um so we you know we talk strategy tax loss harvesting we talk about you know like you know uh different reporting methods all that kind of stuff um but going into next year a lot of it has to do with speculation around the legislative side of things right now because um actually I just had this conversation with Katie the other day right now we don't actually have any legislative progress right on paper nothing what we have is an enforcement body and agency who's not looking anymore to catch rule breakers right and so we've kind of gotten this like nah go ahead nah go ahead and until we see something like that come around I think that we're kind of treading water because a lot of the big ones are still gonna be a little hesitant to like well hey technically on paper this is like still a gray area at best illegal at worst um you know you mentioned the securities thing I always thought that was so funny that like in crypto calling something security was a death sentence and I'm like that's that would be legitimacy.
• 1:35:06
  Iceyyy: Yeah um all you got to do is fill out the paperwork but hey if you care this much and you got this much money why not?
• 1:35:13
  Iceyyy: Yeah so you know we're talking about that we're talking about you know okay what's actually in the bills that are being put forward like which ones are we genuinely excited about which ones are actually helpful um we've talked a lot lately about the manipulative cycle that we've been in right now you know we were just pulling up some price charts so like you know everything pretty much flat choppy but overall flat maybe a little down a little up whatever um but just talking about like how you have to how you have to keep your head on a swivel to navigate this land at all at this point.
• 1:35:48
  Iceyyy: So something we've covered a lot lately is this on we used to do altcoin all after dark used to be an altcoin review I remember yeah yeah so we would I mean you have the whiteboard take altcoin altcoin requests and to be very honest dude that to me got really pedantic and repetitive because someone could ask about something and we could go through this whole like yeah the whole kit and caboodle for it.
• 1:36:11
  Iceyyy: Look at the website talk about the team and all the things that like we came up knowing you have to do when you are analyzing a project for the first time you get to the end of it you have to give this fucking disclaimer that's like hey by the way nothing I just said matters at all it's going to depend whether or not the powers that be by that I mean the market makers and the exchanges um and the administration decide to pump it or not.
• 1:36:33
  Iceyyy: And if they don't it's probably gonna languish or fail.
• 1:36:35
  Iceyyy: Yeah and so that is such a bummer to talk about so like that part I've pretty much left because there are so many cool projects like um uh unlock protocol is a uh is a project that is also partnered with with the Rise Up Morning show and After Dark and I found them originally because we were doing altcoin reviews and I was like oh hey this is actually really cool I want to use this like token be damned I would like to use that for work because like it's uh it's on-chain attestations it's um tokenized membership programs it's you know you could build like tokenized web3 Patreon kind of a thing or you can just token gate a discord server or you can do like what we do you teach a class you can give someone an on-chain certificate of completion for the class and you can put it in your web3 resume you know your on-chain resume forever I was like hey I want I want that for classes that we teach I want to be able to give people little on-chain mementos to say like I finished a thing um so we reached out and we were talking and then it turns out that one of their uh one of the people who works there shout out CC um had like seen my videos before and it was like a very serendipitous moment um because then she you know learned about this stuff from content creators and then got a job in the industry and now still works there and is building this cool ass thing.
• 1:37:53
  Iceyyy: Love that and um so and but that's the kind of stuff I miss doing.
• 1:37:57
  Iceyyy: Yeah I wish we could do that again.
• 1:37:59
  Iceyyy: But I just feel like you can't right now.
• 1:38:01
  Iceyyy: So we're kind of just talking a lot more about like how to temper your expectations for token performance.
• 1:38:08
  Iceyyy: I talk all the time about like if you're lucky enough to be sitting on something that does go up please pay yourself you know like please take some profit please reward yourself because at this point it's a tough world out there man it's a tough world to buy crypto it's real tough man it's real tough.
• 1:38:28
  Iceyyy: Uh what is like but what else is exciting you in in the space like yield yeah always oh tell me more so we we talk a lot about just like ways to maximize returns when you're talking about uh especially stable coins right it's like okay um I'm not a defeatist so if we can't if we can't just talk about buying an altcoin right now and trusting the fact that we did fundamental analysis and it's a good strong project and they have this utility going for them that team is cracked and whatever what can we do instead um and stable coins are just everyone's darling right now.
• 1:39:04
  Iceyyy: So okay well what do I do with that?
• 1:39:05
  Iceyyy: So that's safer, right?
• 1:39:07
  Iceyyy: I don't have to buy something volatile I can keep it in the keep it in the dollar and get a better dollar and do something with it.
• 1:39:12
  Iceyyy: Um so not a sponsor but uh plat platforms like DeFi Carrot are really great because you can just take a straight stable coin go to that platform and earn a great interest rate um it's low right now it's like 7.1% um and what are you doing?
• 1:39:31
  Iceyyy: You just have really good savings account yeah and that takes you into the okay well let's talk about wallets because you got to use a hot wallet to do this.
• 1:39:38
  Iceyyy: So we have to get one first and then we have to make it then we have to you know be safe with it.
• 1:39:42
  Alex: We have to connect it to things we understand we have to know how to revoke permissions and all this kind of stuff right so tons of things to teach um but no yi yield yield farming you know basic d5 101 kind of stuff leveling up to d fi 201 which is why we pursued jito um I found them at consensus too tracked them down followed them around sent them many spamming harassing DMs for a while to get them and then finally we're like all right we're ready that's that's how it goes man that's I mean I I'm looking forward to next year because I want to get back out on the road and go to these conferences I'm really excited man because we've been building um gaming daily the website and we've got like a really cool calendar and uh like news terminal and it's everything that like I've been doing through my content but 247 on a website which is like a platform and a product that I I'm just really excited to build and like kind of be in like founder mode a little bit.
• 1:40:46
  Alex: For sure so so that's kind of like how I'm you know I'll always have content and there's more that I want to do with content but uh I also want to build something that isn't tied to my time and energy being put into it.
• 1:41:07
  Alex: So when I hear you talk about your guides and your tutorials and stuff like that that's that's one of the thoughts that comes to mind I'm like man you know rumshq you guys have great branding and and and I'm sure sites but like I don't know are you guys gonna do anything like that in terms of you know putting tutorials on a site guides step by step things like that is that anywhere on the plan Evan when you're watching the recording back I want it known that I did not tell him to ask me that this is as organic as it gets I can see let me let me show you a little something.
• 1:41:48
  Alex: Okay let's go uh this is this is a a joke because it started off as an experiment um and now now it's turned into like a full bore passion project and uh and it's really funny because whenever someone gives me an opportunity to talk about it I have to and Evan is sick and tired of hearing about it but he knows he knows it's super cool.
• 1:42:11
  Alex: So check it's a good thing he's in Argentina when mom's gone the tax app comes out so check this out this is um first of all also not sponsored but shout out to Replit for just being a badass platform so this started as an experiment to figure out how to vibe code.
• 1:42:32
  Alex: Yeah and now it's turned into this like full fledged headquarters um for education and sorry okay there we go.
• 1:42:41
  Alex: So this is the uh I'm calling it blockchain base camp and it's just like a a hub for learning all stuff crypto.
• 1:42:48
  Alex: It's the tool that I wish I had when I was getting started.
• 1:42:52
  Alex: This is cool.
• 1:42:53
  Alex: This is my newest feature which I just realized it's all off center so I have to fix that.
• 1:42:58
  Alex: But so this is an anonymous login where you don't have to give any information over to keep your session.
• 1:43:05
  Alex: So you can like you can generate a key a private key for your session and it will store all of the information that you like click through all the tutorials you take your progress um anything you do in in any of the sandboxes um all that sort of stuff and then you can re-upload that same session later by entering this key and you don't have to give an email or a name or an address or anything like that.
• 1:43:28
  Alex: So I'm I'm pretty excited about that.
• 1:43:31
  Alex: But uh we'll skip that for right now.
• 1:43:33
  Alex: So effectively in a in a nutshell it is just a place where you can go to learn how to navigate crypto safely.
• 1:43:41
  Alex: Yeah um whole bunch of different skills to learn a whole bunch of different stuff um there is a number of tutorials so these are all like uh full click through tutorials and guides this is sort of like the the starting page where here's all the stuff we're gonna learn and all of these link out to like a glossary uh spot where you can learn what that term means and then you know chase it down other little rabbit holes um you know lessons skills to learn this is like you know your basic six steps to getting started from scratch uh good tools to you know click through and experiment with and all this kind of stuff frequently asked questions yada yada yada whatever um then you can go so here's a full glossary that has all kinds of stuff on it um all of these lead to like related terms and all that kind of stuff once you feel like okay I'm starting to get some jargon down you can go to the simulators which are where you can basically like test run all kinds of crypto activities without actually doing it so like make a wallet get a seed phrase generated for you you know practice writing it down and re-entering it later um to you know import a wallet all that kind of stuff there's also sending and receiving transactions you know so the practice of entering in wallet addresses and accidentally entering the wrong one and getting the warning that you're gonna send it to a place where you get it again.
• 1:45:07
  Alex: There's also a leverage trading simulator where you can learn how to do long and short with leverage that uh just gives you like play money and you can like track your positions and stuff.
• 1:45:19
  Alex: D5 swaps, you know, trading one thing for another setting up a stake withdrawing from a centralized exchange.
• 1:45:27
  Alex: This one I'm working on it's it looks awful right now but uh you know like so pick a pick a TA thing um let's let's speed this thing up you can add like all of these different indicators to turn on or turn off or whatever yeah and then uh you could simulate it and it will just like run through building oh my god evan's here evan's evan's ears were burning he's like his assholes literally showing someone the tax app right now um evan he's been doing this for two hours we haven't even talked about video games listen let my friend go I had to come in at the end I heard I heard I heard the distress sound and I thought my gosh I better get in there before this school and I was too late.
• 1:46:15
  Iceyyy: Isn't this a cool app though all joking aside Alex is really outdone himself at this one it's amazing man first of all Evan hi I love you how are you thank you for jumping on uh Alex no this is incredible man I love that like dude I've been vibe coding my website as well uh for the bulk of it I think it's so cool and exciting what we can do um so I love that you guys are are tapping into this this looks amazing I guess like is it where where are you at in it is it coming soon private access still being worked on like what's yeah what's that it's in private access right now it's published um but just on like a you know a replit uh demo place um and there's a lot of bugs and a lot of problems with it so it's it's living the link to it is is in our circle and people have been you know messing around with it and trying to find places where it's broken and giving me things to fix and all that kind of stuff.
• 1:47:07
  Alex: Very good um you know stuff to work on whatever there's there's a whole bunch the whole thing started actually as like a tax calculator where you could like put in your trades and then get a figure for how much tax you owed and what you could have done to make it better or what you could maybe still do to make it more efficient.
• 1:47:22
  Alex: And then it just really got out of control and snowballed from there.
• 1:47:25
  Evan: We call that scope creep and you gotta you gotta be wary of that but Evan man you look amazing how is Argentina man how's your day how's your night where are you coming from uh I'm coming from dinner I just had if you've never eaten this I recommend it Fugazeta it's a very thin crust pizza with a ton of cheese roasted onions and like olives it's like a uh no sauce a little olive oil pizza and it's so it's so good.
• 1:47:55
  Evan: I also had an empanada that was delicious.
• 1:47:57
  Evan: And I just gotta say I admired as I was like walking home and checking to see if you guys are still on the lights man you were really vibrant with the setup.
• 1:48:05
  Evan: I am so embarrassed of my like naked white wall you know all the people in podcast land you got to see the YouTube and uh your face must be hurting because I tuned in at the very start and then I tuned in again and you look like you've been smiling the whole time.
• 1:48:18
  Evan: So you join the show man I appreciate that man anytime I can like hang out with Alex and and the and the rise up crew you know it's just I'm living my best life man uh this is like I get we I we get to do this for a living you know yeah we're very fortunate and you are a gracious host even when you're a guest I I felt the energy I felt the love and I certainly don't mean to keep you guys in here probably wrapping up soon but I just wanted to put my face in here and put my voice in here and you know just hang out because it's good to see you and I can't wait to catch up on the rest of the conversation man because I'm sure it's great.
• 1:48:51
  Iceyyy: Likewise likewise it's been a great conversation uh as as always every episode is uh shout out to everyone who's been rocking with us for an hour and 50 minutes.
• 1:49:00
  Iceyyy: Uh but I I I have to ask like I have to we have to keep going man like how how is uh Dev Connect Argentina so far like has it officially started what what tell me more because I know I have a lot of people and friends that are are going and are there and attending um if I wasn't going to YGG play summit in Manila because on the gaming side um there was like a reasonable chance that I would have been there hanging out with you in person with bad lights.
• 1:49:28
  Evan: That's exactly right it's dark here and it's chill.
• 1:49:33
  Evan: Dev Connect itself starts next weekend but they call it the Ethereum World Fair and it really is like an all over the world homecoming event Ethereum more than any other network and more than any other culture has created this like totally independent separate from any other country or crypto network vibe.
• 1:49:56
  Evan: You know it's a very diverse community it's very well established it's deep and people have been here for like the last month and will stay for a couple of weeks a lot of people I talk to are are either they've been here for three weeks already or they're staying three weeks after Dev Connect.
• 1:50:12
  Evan: A lot of them are doing things like Edge City which is a uh network state people come and gather in different places all over the world to co-work to commune with nature to talk about the future to share ideas it's vibrant and dude Argentina it I this is my first time here it is such a rich culture and I was saying to the folks on the morning show today I speak some Spanish.
• 1:50:36
  Evan: I used to speak a lot more and I practiced to come here but I as a guy who makes his living communicating and moves about the world comfortably because I feel like I can make meaning and build bridges with my fellow man through like words and exchange I feel so like small in myself here it's a good opportunity for me to listen and observe and and practice some humility.
• 1:50:57
  Evan: But it's it's events all the time.
• 1:50:59
  Evan: I'm going tomorrow to a place called Bubble Studio this killer brutalist like neoclassical space where Sub Zero is going on for three days.
• 1:51:10
  Evan: That's like a multi-chain but hosted by Polkadot event producers event that's gonna have everything they've got you know a bubble room and a ball pit and a pool party roof and they have three days of talks Gavin Wood is going to open the conference via like one of those hologram boxes I'm very excited to be able to share one of the stages and get to introduce it and you know of all the places in all the world I could be this is pretty good.
• 1:51:35
  Alex: Have you seen I feel like the answer is no but that intro was perfect dude they've got everything have you seen Stefan on S yes that's exactly what I was thinking they've got everything New York's hottest club is double studio.
• 1:51:50
  Iceyyy: Yeah New York's hottest club is oh is that's that's amazing man I'm so happy you're that you're there you're giving me FOMO and listen I'm you know I can live with it because you know I I'm I have video games to go play but I don't know how Alex is living with this MOMO of you now though you probably have to hear about this every day for the next three weeks I'm living Alex's dream right now and you're about to be too manila I have also never been I imagine you're about to have the time of your life it's gonna be really special man uh so this will be my second time there we went there for the first time last year with the Wolves Dow.
• 1:52:30
  Iceyyy: So Peyton Sam they do a really special event called Creator Den, just like Stefan and on SNL they've got everything all your favorite video games all your favorite people uh it's really cool it's it is worth the 22 hour flight that it's gonna take to get there but I'm really looking forward to it.
• 1:52:50
  Iceyyy: YGG uh it's funny Alex you were talking about yield and your excitement and obsession with that and uh YGG literally stands for yield guild gaming uh because that's what they do in gaming they search out the best yield and uh and they've just been such a cornerstone of gaming and and a pioneer in crypto I'm very fortunate to be able to work with them YGG uh esports I dude fun story I was trading YGG back in my DeFi days before I was a like crypto creator.
• 1:53:22
  Iceyyy: So I met Gabby I went to like one of their meetups at GDC and I'm like I'm such a big fan of of this project and then just like you were saying Alex you know you met uh Arculus and and uh unlock at you know these conferences years ago and chasing down like I've been kind of courting YGG for years and uh finally this year we're able to to work with them officially and it's been incredible.
• 1:53:47
  Iceyyy: Um so I'm thrilled to be going uh back courtesy of the wolves again uh to Manila their play summit is awesome uh it's like it really feels like the mecca of crypto gaming because you know it's crypto gaming's huge in the Philippines with Axie Infinity the vibe the energy there is incredible Ronan is a big uh proponent there and really like you know a lot of the major players in crypto gaming will make the trip out there like Oliver from OpenSea who loves gaming does a ton in gaming but like he's head of partnerships for like all of OpenSea and he is taking the time to to go out there for like the entire week and stuff like that.
• 1:54:35
  Iceyyy: So it's really cool to see gaming support uh you know the East like that and then obviously they they return that in in spades you know supporting everything that we do.
• 1:54:46
  Iceyyy: Yeah man are you are you gonna be there how long how long will you be out of town Sunday to Sunday full full week a long long enough to experience a little bit of everything and not so long that you're like totally burned out probably appropriately tired by the end I imagine and ready for a good nap yeah it's like enough time to like get over the jet lag like make the flight worth it and then be like okay like yeah we've we've done everything and uh let's let's go home you know yeah I get it man well and hey congratulations on being not only in the running but really uh I think the fan favorite to win the creator of the year award I am so thrilled to see people supporting you to see all your hard work continue to pay off I think you have such a great story because I don't know you just keep getting better sometimes when people like rise to the top you find out I don't know they they uh they kicked a puppy or you know stole cave from a food or something and I just feel like the longer we watch it the longer we know you you know character reveals itself over time and you just you just make so many people their days a little bit better with what you do and I think it's well deserved I I want to know I'm sure you've said it already but it's probably good to repeat it I want to know how can I vote for you support you aside from you know telling people go vote for IC what's what what do we do evan you are too kind man my my my heart is warming up over here we literally this morning dude I were literally talking this morning that if if I got the two of you on the stream together that it was just going to be the two happiest most cheerful people I know just giving each other compliments back and forth for as long as I told them we should do another show like pal you're just so damn friendly yeah we can do a compliment a compliment battle how dare you look that handsome with my girlfriend in this world like what's going on over here how can a man compete you know uh no guys I thank you thank you for the kind words I mean like you know it that's what's cool about life right you meet people and you're like oh we are of the same cloth and ever since I met Alex I'm like you guys are you know brothers in content and doing it the right way and inspire me to like bring that integrity and and value um and like showing that like there's a right way to do this and and that's what we need.
• 1:57:11
  Iceyyy: We need more of that in the space.
• 1:57:12
  Iceyyy: So I'm so proud and and excited for everything that you guys are doing.
• 1:57:16
  Iceyyy: Really happy to like you know be able to come on the show.
• 1:57:19
  Iceyyy: Thank you guys for having me uh thank you for your support I support you guys endlessly as well um the the game awards is real simple game award uh games dot gg forward slash uh game awards uh their award show is on there you can go vote you don't have to what's important is that you're here hanging out with us having a good time uh you know learning about crypto and learning about it from the best and doing it the right way um so I appreciate you guys and uh I mean again I said it you know to Alex early but congratulations on on Arculus uh you know on Gito on Unlock like it's just incredible yeah we've got great partners and hopefully more to come and hopefully for you too so thank you I put it on the screen oh games with a three dot gg alex come on Evan it's crypto it wouldn't be crypto without the three you know and we're gonna have that in the show notes we'll continue to share it we'll put it in the community so that if you want to support IC what's the deadline to vote Sunday and voting ends on Sunday so go vote when you see this and you can tune in on Friday they'll be streaming live from Manila see who's gonna win game of the year you know chain of the year uh just it's a best mobile game best action game there's all sorts of stuff I was I was chilling it to to Alex and and I'm have no affiliation with them uh other than just loving what they do and supporting what they do it's just grassroots media and small team organization like you can just do things you can you can do things and impact people's lives and give them you know something to like hope for and look forward to and and that's like in a in the small little space that we're in with uh crypto gaming that's what games gg is doing with their game awards ceremony this is their fourth year running and they've really elevated year after year so it's really a an honor and a pleasure to be a part of and you know it's like that's the kind of thing that inspires me in this space to to keep going because like that's what it's all about coming together recognizing people doing great work celebrating you know people pushing innovation forward and I don't know if there's like there needs to be like a DeFi awards and and you know some stuff like that but not not the thing that in token Singapore where like the crypto KL guy like I don't know what that was all about like I have literally never heard of that guy for people who are unhip to this this has been like didn't he win twice in a row or something I think so and some guy I've never heard of won Crypto Content Creator of the year award and the only picture I saw of him was like an instrument no one's ever heard of.
• 1:59:59
  Evan: Yeah Yeah.
• 2:00:00
  Evan: I think he botted the vote or something.
• 2:00:02
  Evan: Oh, the picture I saw of him as like an influencer was like one of those Instagram, I'm on a jet looking out the window because I'm rich pictures.
• 2:00:10
  Evan: Yeah.
• 2:00:10
  Evan: What?
• 2:00:11
  Evan: Who are you?
• 2:00:13
  Iceyyy: And like all of his token like call chills are just like all you know the blatant rugs and down bad.
• 2:00:19
  Iceyyy: It's like, what is we are not a serious industry, my goodness.
• 2:00:24
  Evan: I don't know how people like that make it.
• 2:00:26
  Evan: I just I don't get it.
• 2:00:27
  Evan: Alex, if only we were willing to do just a little crime, a little bit of crime.
• 2:00:32
  Evan: Okay, I see you've got a question in the comments, and I'm I'm I'm don't let me steal your show.
• 2:00:38
  Evan: I'm really just here to hang out.
• 2:00:40
  Iceyyy: I'm here to hang out with you guys.
• 2:00:41
  Iceyyy: Yeah, we're chilling.
• 2:00:43
  Alex: You know, we're we we're we're approach it's we're approaching that time.
• 2:00:47
  Alex: Um, but uh I see there were there was a question from uh Aamon, big supporter of the show.
• 2:00:53
  Alex: Good to see you, dude.
• 2:00:54
  Alex: Uh asking about ice poker.
• 2:00:56
  Alex: Is it's can you still do it?
• 2:00:58
  Alex: Is it is it gone or does it still exist?
• 2:01:02
  Iceyyy: They're still operating.
• 2:01:03
  Iceyyy: Um, so they they really transitioned more to the social casino, uh, which in the beginning I was a real fan of because they stayed true to their like metaverse poker roots and thesis.
• 2:01:18
  Iceyyy: Um, but they they've essentially rebranded now as bag.win and it's more of a social casino.
• 2:01:25
  Iceyyy: And they they kind of went hard on, you know, the the the roulette and the blackjack and the Plinko and all that stuff, which I am not the biggest fan of.
• 2:01:36
  Iceyyy: Uh I think gambling, you know, anybody has any right to do whatever they want.
• 2:01:40
  Iceyyy: Um, it can be fun entertainment, but it can also be dangerous.
• 2:01:44
  Iceyyy: Uh, I always liked poker because it was a skill game and there was like art and beauty to that.
• 2:01:49
  Iceyyy: So I was always very comfortable playing poker.
• 2:01:52
  Iceyyy: Uh, and you know, I'm an adult.
• 2:01:54
  Iceyyy: We we all my friends are, you know, my my audiences uh are are reasonable adults, and we always give give those disclaimers.
• 2:02:02
  Iceyyy: But when they went more and more into just straight, you know, casino, which all credit to them, run run a great business.
• 2:02:08
  Iceyyy: They got their licenses, which was very uh uh admirable.
• 2:02:12
  Iceyyy: Uh like they were really trying to push forward the metaverse poker, but you know, they were maybe a little bit ahead of their time and have gone the more casino route.
• 2:02:21
  Iceyyy: Um, so I've I've kind of not kept up with them as much because you know, the metaverse poker and what they were doing, we we we did a segment on them earlier because it was really inspiring how they blended DeFi with gaming.
• 2:02:35
  Iceyyy: Um, and and yeah, so that has kind of like lost its allure for me.
• 2:02:40
  Iceyyy: Uh, but they're still out there, they're still you know doing some stuff.
• 2:02:44
  Evan: The gambling narrative is not surprising, but I will say I do think we are almost at like a problematic place culturally, yeah, with the proliferation of how how I won't say easy, like you say, adults.
• 2:02:59
  Evan: I'm I'm a big fan of people being able to do what they want to do, but the problem we have is it seems like people are pushed to gamble in ways that are maybe not in alignment with decisions they would make if they were more well informed.
• 2:03:12
  Evan: I see more commercials than ever for sports betting, more celebrities than ever making endorsements, and I understand that gambling-related debt or like just financial misery are also on the rise at like a local all-time high.
• 2:03:26
  Evan: So I think it's something that we should be able to if we want, but a local top, you know.
• 2:03:30
  Evan: It's hot right now, Alex.
• 2:03:33
  Evan: Bye, bye, bye.
• 2:03:36
  Evan: You know, so I I'm I'm interested to see how culturally, like as a collective, we deal with that in the next era of the internet.
• 2:03:43
  Evan: It'd be interesting to see.
• 2:03:45
  Iceyyy: It's it's concerning.
• 2:03:46
  Iceyyy: I I'm right there with you, Evan.
• 2:03:48
  Iceyyy: Um, as someone who like in their 20s, you know, definitely struggled with my um discipline in playing poker, you know, thinking like I definitely have like uh felt the gambling urge and tendencies, and and you are playing with fire.
• 2:04:08
  Iceyyy: So it does concern me quite a bit, uh how the proliferation of of and pervasiveness of gambling and sports betting.
• 2:04:18
  Iceyyy: And I love polymark, like I'm a big fan of prediction markets.
• 2:04:22
  Iceyyy: I think it's a really cool innovation to come out of crypto.
• 2:04:25
  Iceyyy: Um, I hope that it's like more, you know, fair and transparent, and there's a lot of cool stuff there.
• 2:04:31
  Iceyyy: Uh, but at the same time, like I pair that with my concern for its impact on society.
• 2:04:37
  Iceyyy: I always think of um, I always have the scene from Back to the Future 2 in my head where he goes to the future and Biff Tannin, like you know, became a millionaire and owns a casino, and like the town has just gone to complete degeneracy, and it's like this is what can happen if it goes in the wrong hands, and and like I feel like that's the path that we're going down, and it breaks my heart.
• 2:05:05
  Iceyyy: Um, so the financial nihilism is is is a bit real, and I I don't I don't know, man.
• 2:05:12
  Evan: And we've got this comment from Brandon that gets on it.
• 2:05:14
  Evan: The Dazzle Novak says the younger generation is so heavily pressed into gambling.
• 2:05:18
  Evan: I see how old are you, brother?
• 2:05:21
  Evan: Guys, I'm in my 30s.
• 2:05:23
  Iceyyy: I know I look very, very young.
• 2:05:25
  Evan: Uh I just never know these days.
• 2:05:27
  Evan: I was telling you guys this morning I saw a meme that was like, uh, you know, 80 years old, lives in Italy, drinks a glass of wine every day.
• 2:05:33
  Evan: It's like an old wrinkly man, but he's, you know, the picture of longevity and health.
• 2:05:37
  Evan: Yeah.
• 2:05:37
  Evan: It has the same picture next to it that says uh a 20-year-old in crypto, and it's the same like the wrinkly guy.
• 2:05:43
  Evan: But I I just so true.
• 2:05:44
  Evan: I I ask, I feel like maybe you're more in touch with that.
• 2:05:48
  Evan: I'm in my 30s, but more in touch with people who skew a little younger because of gaming.
• 2:05:53
  Evan: And I know your audience is a lot of adults, but uh, I'm curious, it seems like casual gambling is like just more of a thing in school, even like like high school.
• 2:06:04
  Evan: And I I don't know, you know, like vaping or whatever.
• 2:06:06
  Evan: And I just don't remember that being a thing, even you know, 15 years ago when I was there.
• 2:06:13
  Evan: Like uh I don't know how to help because I feel like I'm not cool anymore.
• 2:06:18
  Iceyyy: I mean, we're definitely like you know, the generation where it's like kids these days, you you know, like we're definitely getting that, and it and every generation has like gone through that for sure.
• 2:06:29
  Iceyyy: So I I try and like keep that perspective, but I get it's real.
• 2:06:32
  Iceyyy: I mean, the the impacts of just social media and phones are are are are a concern, and I mean everything that like birthed crypto and Bitcoin was to give power back to people because the systems weren't working, we were on a bad path, right?
• 2:06:49
  Iceyyy: And as much progress as we have made, and Alex and I, this kind of been a theme of the show.
• 2:06:54
  Iceyyy: I've I've really been venting and using Alex as my therapist, my crypto therapist.
• 2:06:59
  Iceyyy: Um uh you know, it feels like a lot of crypto has been co-opted a little bit into these systems that we were trying to kind of break away from.
• 2:07:11
  Iceyyy: Uh, but shout out to the uh Brandon, the dazzled Novak, by the way.
• 2:07:14
  Iceyyy: Amazing uh uh human being.
• 2:07:17
  Iceyyy: Have you guys had him on the show?
• 2:07:18
  Iceyyy: You guys need to have him.
• 2:07:19
  Evan: It's on our list.
• 2:07:20
  Evan: He's got the links.
• 2:07:21
  Evan: We're gonna get him and Jerry on the show.
• 2:07:23
  Evan: I have been over on their show, Will has been over on their show.
• 2:07:26
  Evan: I'm sure Alex will make it over there, but I I think Brandon is just a sweet guy.
• 2:07:30
  Evan: We had a call with him the other day, and we were just sharing ideas about content creation and how to engage people, how to how to help people.
• 2:07:38
  Evan: And yeah, he's he's getting a ding.
• 2:07:42
  Iceyyy: I love him, and yeah, the show that he does with Jerry is fantastic.
• 2:07:45
  Iceyyy: Uh best food reviews in the business.
• 2:07:48
  Evan: Yeah, when I found out they did we when I went on, we really didn't talk much about food at all.
• 2:07:52
  Evan: And he kind of said, Yeah, we do some of this.
• 2:07:53
  Evan: And then I was like, wait, Brandon, seriously, dude, like I love food in another life.
• 2:07:58
  Evan: If I had all the time, I would definitely do food reviews.
• 2:08:00
  Evan: I would love content.
• 2:08:02
  Evan: So I I'm excited to have.
• 2:08:04
  Evan: He said that something he said about Jerry, he said, I can't wait until you talk to Jerry about food because his takes on food tend to be controversial in the sense that he has like the most I forget how Brandon said it, like um like blase takes on food, but he defends them as if they're like the greatest thing ever.
• 2:08:21
  Evan: He'll be like, you know what?
• 2:08:22
  Evan: Slaps ramen in the package.
• 2:08:24
  Evan: I don't, I don't know, you know, or like a hot dog with ketchup, whatever, you know, and he'll just die on that hill.
• 2:08:29
  Iceyyy: I respect that.
• 2:08:30
  Iceyyy: Jerry is uh one of a kind, he is the golden god singer, 230 pounds, six feet, six foot three.
• 2:08:38
  Iceyyy: He's just a legend, man.
• 2:08:40
  Iceyyy: Um, and so charismatic.
• 2:08:42
  Iceyyy: And I've I've been a fan of uh I've been like a proponent of him doing more and more content.
• 2:08:49
  Iceyyy: And uh yeah, love to see them really stepping into their own and and doing some really cool stuff with the with their show and their content.
• 2:08:56
  Iceyyy: So shout out to them.
• 2:08:58
  Evan: Yeah, follow up Fresco, what's fresco?
• 2:09:01
  Evan: What's TG?
• 2:09:02
  Iceyyy: What's Jerry's TGI Fresco?
• 2:09:04
  Evan: TGI Fresco and the Dazzle Novak with a K is Brandon and their show.
• 2:09:09
  Evan: They were telling me they're working on branding for the show, like rebranding it.
• 2:09:12
  Evan: And I, you know, I'm not gonna let the cat out of the bag, but watch for that soon.
• 2:09:15
  Evan: I think they're really about to double down and hopefully bring you a lot of great content.
• 2:09:21
  Alex: Yeah, I met Jerry originally on um Simplified.
• 2:09:24
  Alex: Yeah, that's uh that was a great show.
• 2:09:27
  Alex: Wolves, dude.
• 2:09:28
  Alex: Go figure.
• 2:09:29
  Iceyyy: What do you what do you guys think about um?
• 2:09:31
  Iceyyy: So I've been a big fan of Thread Guy.
• 2:09:33
  Iceyyy: Um, some people love him, some people not a fan.
• 2:09:36
  Iceyyy: Uh, I really respect his his his work ethic and his consistency and grind.
• 2:09:41
  Iceyyy: And I think that he's been doing a really great job of bringing more content.
• 2:09:46
  Iceyyy: And I think I'm really bullish on this idea of like financial entertainment, and he's got this thesis about um crypto content just being you were talking about you know gambling stock going up, like this cont this medium is primed for you know massive growth, and I really like that take.
• 2:10:09
  Iceyyy: It makes me very excited to be a creator in the space.
• 2:10:12
  Iceyyy: You guys have been building your brand consistently for years, multiple shows a day, not even a week, a day.
• 2:10:22
  Iceyyy: Um, how are you guys looking at the landscape uh uh from that lens?
• 2:10:27
  Iceyyy: Are you are you seeing, you know, uh anything that you want to get into in terms of like streaming or or clipping or you know, more guests or or anything that's kind of happening uh that you're taking inspiration from?
• 2:10:41
  Iceyyy: We're obviously seeing more shows pop up and things like that.
• 2:10:44
  Iceyyy: I'm curious.
• 2:10:46
  Alex: Yeah, I can so definitely I I love hosting people.
• 2:10:50
  Alex: We've kind of really turned into uh you know, more from a show where we would have a guest once or twice a month to like it's really weird if we have several shows in a row where there's not a guest, which is also great because there's more people that like we're sending a link out to and more people who are interested in coming on.
• 2:11:10
  Alex: Um shout out to an impending guest, Stefy Lama.
• 2:11:15
  Alex: Yeah, pretty excited about that.
• 2:11:17
  Alex: But I like when you talk talk about like sources of inspiration, for me, there's really two.
• 2:11:23
  Alex: Um in the crit on the crypto side of things, it's Laura, Laura Shin.
• 2:11:27
  Alex: And I like people ask me at conferences, like, you know, what are you working on?
• 2:11:32
  Alex: What are you doing?
• 2:11:32
  Alex: It's like I kinda wanna be Laura when I grow up because the thing about her is that when you have when you have something to share in this industry, like your first thought is I I gotta tell Laura.
• 2:11:44
  Alex: And that's where you want to go.
• 2:11:46
  Alex: And I want I want people to think about our network as a place where you can go when you need to when you're you're trying to get something that you're building in front of a group of people who are going to genuinely listen to it and then give you feedback on it.
• 2:12:02
  Alex: So kind of talking about it in that sense, and then from a guest perspective, um, my biggest source of inspiration, also a web three builder, shout out, is Stephen Bartlett, um, diary of a CEO, who is the founder of Third Web, an absolutely behemoth company um in Web3.
• 2:12:21
  Alex: So between the and with with him, it's just the the caliber and the quality of the way that that man hosts somebody.
• 2:12:28
  Alex: Like it's a killer conversation every single time.
• 2:12:32
  Alex: Um you learn something every eight seconds.
• 2:12:36
  Alex: The like the way that you can captivate an audience and like the thoughtfulness of the questions, like there's there's a few of those um people who are just like so good at interviewing people or so good at having conversations like that guy.
• 2:12:51
  Alex: And uh, well, I don't know, on your screen if I pointed the right way, but I was trying to point at Evan.
• 2:12:55
  Alex: Um wherever he is on your screen.
• 2:12:59
  Alex: So, you know, there and then and then just I you know, I want people to know that hey, when you're like sketched out by this kind of stuff, which you should be, but it's mostly sketchy, there's like a place where you can go and listen to people talk and teach you how to use it, and you don't have to worry that there's some sort of like hidden agenda, ulterior motive behind the attention that you're gonna give to that place.
• 2:13:23
  Alex: So that's that's what I want this to be.
• 2:13:25
  Evan: I love that.
• 2:13:26
  Evan: That's a really good answer.
• 2:13:28
  Evan: I agree with everything you said, and I would add for me, I'm really interested in trying to figure out back to the the financialization piece.
• 2:13:40
  Evan: I don't know Thread Guy personally, and I respect anybody who puts in 10,000 hours doing something to get better at it.
• 2:13:46
  Evan: I have not personally ever watched his content and enjoyed it.
• 2:13:50
  Evan: Um I think he is more interesting to me from a financialization perspective.
• 2:13:57
  Evan: I don't I don't put him in the hall of broadcasting greats.
• 2:14:00
  Evan: I don't, I don't think, man, I could listen to that guy talk forever.
• 2:14:03
  Evan: Honestly, I I don't find him particularly entertaining.
• 2:14:05
  Evan: I'm sure I would enjoy him if I got to know him better.
• 2:14:08
  Evan: And I think that's his thing is he sits down with you, he shows up with you, you get to know him over time.
• 2:14:12
  Evan: And I have a lot of problems with current models of financialization because I think they're reductive.
• 2:14:20
  Evan: I think the whole this stream is a token, and it's a token you can buy that will go up in price, and people can sell it whenever they want.
• 2:14:28
  Evan: And I'll earn money on the fees benefits creators and pretty much nobody else.
• 2:14:33
  Evan: Maybe they're insider friends.
• 2:14:35
  Evan: I just think it's dumb because tokens are an infinitely programmable meaning medium.
• 2:14:41
  Evan: And even compared to like a year ago, but certainly compared to five years ago, we have so many more no-code tools to launch different types of tokens for one stream or an ecosystem that do all kinds of things and might create shared value instead of one-sided extracted value.
• 2:15:00
  Evan: I've talked about that a lot on this show, and I will continue to talk about it.
• 2:15:03
  Evan: I'd like to write more about it because it seems like our friends on crypto Twitter pay more attention to that.
• 2:15:08
  Evan: And I think I have a lot to say for that conversation.
• 2:15:10
  Evan: In terms of who inspires me and what I think about the show and what I want it to look like, our content, I am really interested in always being this sort of place that feels exclusive, but you're invited.
• 2:15:27
  Evan: Come behind the scenes into the wild and wonderful world of Web3 with us.
• 2:15:31
  Evan: If Laura Shin has like the timeliest topics and guests, you know, Unchained is doing a story on the thing that happened yesterday or, you know, this morning.
• 2:15:39
  Alex: Eight seconds ago.
• 2:15:40
  Evan: I want to be the show where we're sitting down with somebody who six months from now you're gonna hear about.
• 2:15:46
  Evan: Like Alex and I, we met with the founder of Pump Dot Fun probably three months before they blew up.
• 2:15:51
  Evan: We, you know, have sat down with um Charlie Blackstock.
• 2:15:54
  Evan: We've had uh you on the show.
• 2:15:56
  Evan: We've we've had we have people like that and also people who are like William Quigley, uh co-founder of Tether, Hester Peirce.
• 2:16:04
  Evan: I want it to be like backstage in the green room of Web3.
• 2:16:07
  Evan: You might see a regulator who's an elected or appointed official who has a lot of power next to somebody you've never heard of until tomorrow.
• 2:16:15
  Evan: And over time, we can get a reputation for being the place you just kind of come and hang out with those people and build the no-like trust factor.
• 2:16:23
  Evan: I think what we do really well, and I'd like to continue to improve on is you feel like you know us.
• 2:16:30
  Evan: We want you here, you're welcome.
• 2:16:32
  Evan: Whether you're skeptical about crypto, curious about it, or you don't like it at all.
• 2:16:36
  Evan: Uh, a show that Alex and I both take a lot of inspiration from is Car Talk.
• 2:16:40
  Evan: If you're listening to this podcast and you've never heard of Car Talk, do yourself a favor and just Google Car Talk N PR.
• 2:16:47
  Evan: They've got no longer do they publish.
• 2:16:50
  Evan: Um, one of the hosts has um been dead for a couple of years.
• 2:16:53
  Evan: Rest in peace.
• 2:16:54
  Evan: But he they super intelligent, uh studied mechanics.
• 2:17:02
  Evan: They went to MIT, they had a garage for decades, and they know everything about cars.
• 2:17:07
  Evan: What we do, what we try and do for people's crypto questions live, they do for people's car questions.
• 2:17:11
  Evan: They don't have an automobile problem from just a sound that somebody makes with their mouth.
• 2:17:15
  Evan: But you know, they talk to each other like this.
• 2:17:18
  Evan: Don't drive like my brother, don't drive like my brother.
• 2:17:21
  Evan: You know, they got this laugh, and you don't have to be a mechanic to enjoy that show.
• 2:17:26
  Alex: Yeah, so what I've literally two mechanics talking about mechanic stuff that none of their listeners are mechanics.
• 2:17:32
  Evan: So dense, but I love that though.
• 2:17:34
  Evan: And it makes you feel like a part of the thing, and so that's what I want more of.
• 2:17:38
  Evan: And I also want the last thing I'll say is that more and more people feel like they can take part in containers that we can help build, so that one day there will be a uh levantante, rise up in Espanol, hosted by someone else, and that there will be a policy hour, and that there will be, you know, a show for younger people, a show for older people, and different types of content that we have nothing to do with except that we enjoy it because we get to see what other people are doing.
• 2:18:03
  Evan: So those are the things I'd like to see.
• 2:18:05
  Evan: And I'd be curious what your thoughts are, um, you know, in terms of where you see the future of content going, but also, you know, for your channel too.
• 2:18:13
  Evan: Um, I know you have a vision for it.
• 2:18:16
  Iceyyy: I love everything that you said so much.
• 2:18:18
  Iceyyy: I it's the passion and the earnestness and the like the the die hard commitment that you have to your vision, your mission, your community, your content, your voice.
• 2:18:38
  Iceyyy: I love that, man.
• 2:18:39
  Iceyyy: I love that so so much.
• 2:18:40
  Iceyyy: That that's so cool.
• 2:18:42
  Iceyyy: Uh my I don't I do not have as cool of an answer as you, man.
• 2:18:48
  Iceyyy: I love content, I love people, I love helping people, I love the the fun and awe that gaming and art and innovation and opportunity can bring to someone's life.
• 2:19:05
  Iceyyy: Uh, I see a lot of parallels in crypto, cutting-edge uh technologies.
• 2:19:12
  Iceyyy: So that's really what inspires me.
• 2:19:16
  Iceyyy: And my goal has always just been to try to play whatever role I can play in pushing that forward.
• 2:19:25
  Iceyyy: And, you know, I talk to a lot of creators, it's a really interesting question because I talk to a lot of creators.
• 2:19:31
  Iceyyy: On one hand, I'm always encouraging people to find their North Star, their mission that will carry them through the the highs and the lows, and you know, the the good times and the hard times, uh, which mine has been trying to be a pioneer in this industry.
• 2:19:49
  Iceyyy: Um, you know, I I always set out with the understanding that it was going to take 10 to 15 years for a true game to figure out a token economy and to you know be that game that changes the world because uh it was just that groundbreaking, right?
• 2:20:10
  Iceyyy: It's the arc raiders of of crypto or the runescape of crypto.
• 2:20:14
  Iceyyy: I don't think it's gonna happen in the first five years.
• 2:20:17
  Iceyyy: I was uh you know crying to to Alex on a lot of this show uh that we're like four years in, and I'm like, why haven't we made it yet?
• 2:20:26
  Iceyyy: But you know, you you do have to zoom out and be like, it's gonna take, you know, the Katie Drake Bettners of the world to come to market with wildcards.
• 2:20:35
  Iceyyy: Shout out to Katie, I love you too.
• 2:20:37
  Iceyyy: Um and and yeah, so I don't exactly know where that path how that path is gonna unfold, but I know that I want to be there for it and and be a part of it.
• 2:20:47
  Iceyyy: And then the other part of the answer, which is like maybe a little bit more practical, that I I talk to my fellow gaming creators about, is looking at the people that are here now, which I think you guys do such a great job of, and why I I have so much admiration for you guys, is looking at the people who are here now and the problems that they have, and to help them with those problems and to try and do the work that's needed now for the people who are here who are showing up and have questions or you know, have interest and have care and energy.
• 2:21:24
  Iceyyy: And it's like, cool, like let's let's figure this out together.
• 2:21:27
  Iceyyy: Like, what you know, let's build this website, let's build this, you know, this tutorial, this guide, um, so that you can fall in love and and contribute what you can contribute, and then we all kind of have that network effect and uh and keep pushing and moving forward.
• 2:21:44
  Iceyyy: Um, that's why like spaces like you know, Rums HQ is so great, and spaces like Wolvesdow are are so great because it's it's this collective of people.
• 2:21:55
  Iceyyy: And this is why Ethereum you you came on talking about the collective community that has transcended nations and cultures.
• 2:22:04
  Iceyyy: Um because that's the beauty of it.
• 2:22:06
  Iceyyy: So that's uh that's how I view my content and and my work in the space.
• 2:22:11
  Evan: Dude, what a really profound thing.
• 2:22:13
  Evan: Creating the content that meets people where they are.
• 2:22:17
  Evan: I I strive to do that.
• 2:22:19
  Evan: Alex strives to do that, and I think we we do a pretty good job for the most part, but you know, I really have to fight myself because I am so in my head in the future, in terms of like I see where you like you said, it's been four years.
• 2:22:34
  Evan: Why don't we have this game?
• 2:22:35
  Evan: I know you see that too, but I I would encourage you.
• 2:22:38
  Evan: I think you I think you do a good job of that, and I think the fact that hopefully we can all keep that in focus because it is a real tough thing the further down a rabbit hole you go to kind of look back up at the light and and you know, carve a path or shine a light on the place people need to step next to get to where you are, and then for all of us to move forward together.
• 2:22:59
  Evan: So couldn't have said it better, man.
• 2:23:02
  Iceyyy: Yeah, I love it, guys.
• 2:23:03
  Iceyyy: I don't want to keep you too long, guys.
• 2:23:05
  Iceyyy: I know we've gone late.
• 2:23:06
  Iceyyy: I think someone in TikTok said their phone died.
• 2:23:08
  Iceyyy: Uh, you you guys have been so gracious with your time.
• 2:23:12
  Iceyyy: Um, and I mean, just like last time, I have so much fun in the show.
• 2:23:16
  Iceyyy: The two and a half hours just fly by this is a Lord of the Rings movie, guys.
• 2:23:21
  Evan: Yes, that was a good question, maybe to end on.
• 2:23:23
  Evan: I will certainly defer to Alex.
• 2:23:24
  Evan: I'm I'm well met.
• 2:23:25
  Evan: Uh, I don't know if you gave out any dings and guumps or if you want to do a round of final thoughts, but I I think yeah, I think we gotta have a round three when everyone's had a nap and is back home from their stuff.
• 2:23:37
  Evan: I just can't wait for it.
• 2:23:39
  Iceyyy: We gotta do it in person, man.
• 2:23:40
  Iceyyy: The next one's gotta be, you know, in person.
• 2:23:43
  Evan: And maybe it should be like in your neck of the woods because Will's over there, and I feel like, oh no, are we going to Tybee instead?
• 2:23:50
  Alex: I was just telling Icy who said that he's burning out and might need a vacation.
• 2:23:55
  Alex: That like I just so happen to live in a great place to vacation.
• 2:23:59
  Iceyyy: I heard there's sun, ocean, and beach there, man.
• 2:24:02
  Iceyyy: That sounds good to me.
• 2:24:03
  Alex: Dude, it's gonna be it's gonna be 80 again by Thanksgiving.
• 2:24:06
  Alex: Sounds good.
• 2:24:07
  Evan: Oh yeah, okay.
• 2:24:09
  Evan: I'm in.
• 2:24:09
  Evan: I'm in.
• 2:24:10
  Evan: Let's call let's call the squad.
• 2:24:11
  Evan: Let's assemble the troops and let's go hang out on a beach.
• 2:24:15
  Iceyyy: Rums HQ retreat, man.
• 2:24:17
  Iceyyy: Let's let's go sign me up.
• 2:24:19
  Alex: That's true.
• 2:24:20
  Alex: I got to hook up.
• 2:24:21
  Alex: But no, we'll uh Evan, we I gotta say, we did not do the game today.
• 2:24:26
  Alex: Uh, although Icy would have won because you weren't here to to corrupt things any other direction.
• 2:24:32
  Alex: Ridiculity.
• 2:24:33
  Alex: Um, but uh no, we will we will keep with tradition and do a round of final thoughts.
• 2:24:38
  Alex: I do have to say, uh, Icy, dude, it was great to have you.
• 2:24:41
  Alex: Thanks for giving us so much of your time tonight.
• 2:24:43
  Alex: No, thank you for that.
• 2:24:44
  Iceyyy: I messaged Alex, I'm like, can I come on the show?
• 2:24:46
  Iceyyy: I want to come on the show.
• 2:24:48
  Alex: And it was perfect timing because I was in the middle of being like, I need someone to come on the show because everyone's abandoned me and I'm I'm here.
• 2:24:55
  Alex: Like, no one wants to just sit here and watch me complain about corruption for another two-hour time block.
• 2:25:02
  Alex: Uh, because spoiler alert, I'm gonna be back again in literally less than 10 hours to do it.
• 2:25:07
  Alex: You have nothing to talk about.
• 2:25:08
  Alex: I know there's always something to talk about.
• 2:25:11
  Evan: Yeah, another hour of Snacks app and complains with Alex.
• 2:25:14
  Alex: It's just your hey, listen, it's funny that you showed up when you did because I just got finished like speaking into the ether to let you know as you watch the recording that yeah, that was definitely all icy.
• 2:25:24
  Alex: I did not come up with that.
• 2:25:26
  Alex: He organically asked me, and it was, dude, it was the perfect time.
• 2:25:29
  Evan: Sure, sure.
• 2:25:30
  Alex: Well, I knew that you felt a disturbance in the four summers.
• 2:25:32
  Alex: The fact that you just popped in backstage as soon as I had the screen sharp was so funny.
• 2:25:38
  Alex: Um, but no, let's uh let's let's hit some hit some final thoughts.
• 2:25:42
  Alex: Uh Evan, what do you do you have anything else tonight?
• 2:25:44
  Alex: Are you are you?
• 2:25:45
  Alex: Yes, I do.
• 2:25:45
  Evan: I have a final thought prepared, and it is about our good friend and colleague, Mr.
• 2:25:49
  Evan: Will Watson.
• 2:25:51
  Evan: When I was not on the show, coming back here to get on the show, I was texting with the group chat that we have with Will and with Tori.
• 2:25:58
  Evan: And Will shared this.
• 2:26:01
  Evan: He and Violet are in Japan right now, and they're living it up.
• 2:26:06
  Evan: He's done like kendo in an authentic outfit.
• 2:26:09
  Evan: They've been eating great food, they've been seeing beautiful sights.
• 2:26:12
  Evan: And tonight, I guess they went to a place where you get to interact with different animals, and he texted a really cute picture of them feeding and petting this adorable baby otter.
• 2:26:25
  Evan: You know, is there a is there a cuter animal than an otter?
• 2:26:27
  Evan: I don't know.
• 2:26:28
  Evan: They're pretty much the best.
• 2:26:30
  Evan: And, you know, it was like holding his hand.
• 2:26:32
  Evan: It was the cutest picture I ever did.
• 2:26:34
  Evan: So he said, and I said, Oh my gosh, that's so adorable.
• 2:26:36
  Evan: And then he texted me back, he said, Yeah, except at the end, they made us take a picture with the baby otters and they pull them away from the mother and the babies start crying, and then they have to like hold on to the mom because like she's crying.
• 2:26:47
  Evan: And he said, and then they just pointed a camera at us and started taking pictures.
• 2:26:51
  Evan: And he sent me a picture, and he and Violet are like, they have these like otters in somebody else's hands, like in front of their face, and he and Violet are both kind of like and he said he like said to Violet, Oh, we just got let's just smile and get it over with.
• 2:27:04
  Evan: Let's give them what they want.
• 2:27:05
  Evan: And so they go from being like to being like and now I really he said it was dramatic.
• 2:27:12
  Evan: I really want to make like a Christmas picture.
• 2:27:16
  Evan: Kimberly, my fiance had this idea to do for their Christmas cards, they could make their picture, and I said, let's just get them a shirt for Christmas with that picture on it of them, like with the crying otters.
• 2:27:26
  Evan: I I would probably, I would probably cry if that happened to me.
• 2:27:30
  Evan: Uh all that to say, heartbreaking.
• 2:27:32
  Evan: I am living it up.
• 2:27:34
  Evan: I hope whoever you are, wherever you are, whenever you listen, that you are living it up.
• 2:27:38
  Evan: And if you're not feeling so good, at least you're not an otter separated from its mother.
• 2:27:43
  Evan: That's my final thought.
• 2:27:44
  Evan: Bearish.
• 2:27:45
  Evan: That was beautiful.
• 2:27:48
  Iceyyy: I didn't know where you were going at with that at one point, but you tied that up so beautifully.
• 2:27:52
  Iceyyy: I caught me by that was that was poetic.
• 2:27:55
  Iceyyy: My goodness.
• 2:27:56
  Evan: That's very kind of you.
• 2:27:57
  Evan: I don't know that it was that beautiful.
• 2:27:58
  Evan: I I realized at the end, I was like, where is this going?
• 2:28:01
  Evan: And uh hopefully we made it somewhere.
• 2:28:03
  Evan: And you know, if if you're listening in Argentina in Buenos Aires, get at me.
• 2:28:08
  Evan: That's that's my final, final thought.
• 2:28:09
  Evan: Is um if you're here for Dev Connect or for something else, if you've got a cultural experience, if you've got an otter that I can humanely interact with that won't be taken from its mother, then I'll uh I'll give it to you, Icy, for the for the final, final thought.
• 2:28:24
  Alex: I'll put a cherry on top of Evan's story to say that I too have an have had an encounter with uh with an animal in a setting that didn't go the way that I wanted it to.
• 2:28:32
  Alex: I was in San Juan, Puerto Rico on a port call, which is when you're doing a District 7 D7 patrol, which is like the Caribbean, um, and you can just stop anywhere.
• 2:28:43
  Alex: It's either gonna be Guantanamo Bay or it's gonna be San Juan.
• 2:28:47
  Alex: And um so we were we were there and we were participating in beverages and everybody was hammered, and we're like wandering around San Juan, and this dude comes up and he's holding underneath each arm, he's holding an iguana, and each iguana is wearing like a full denim suit, like literally wearing jeans and a denim jacket, and he just starts handing us the iguanas and taking pictures, and then that was the scam, right?
• 2:29:10
  Alex: Like, give you the iguana, take the picture, and then demand money for you from the picture.
• 2:29:14
  Alex: And um, we didn't know what to do, and we didn't have any money, and we were also hammered, and we all panicked, and so we just set the iguanas on the ground and ran, and he didn't know whether to chase us or chase the iguanas.
• 2:29:24
  Alex: And so, for a brief moment, there was a Puerto Rican man chasing two denim clad iguanas as a bunch of drunk Coast Guardsmen ran away from him in the middle of the street.
• 2:29:35
  Alex: That's poor memory.
• 2:29:39
  Iceyyy: That is incredible.
• 2:29:40
  Alex: Everyone knew who we were, too, because you've been in uniform on the ship the entire time.
• 2:29:44
  Alex: So, like your legs are as pasty as humanly possible, and you have the most aggressive farmer's tan of all time.
• 2:29:51
  Alex: Uh, as you're just like standing out on the ship, forearms out, and that's it.
• 2:29:56
  Alex: So everyone knew exactly who we were, which you're just a problem.
• 2:29:59
  Alex: Target.
• 2:30:02
  Iceyyy: That is beyond incredible.
• 2:30:04
  Iceyyy: I don't know if I have any really cool animal stories like that.
• 2:30:07
  Iceyyy: Yeah.
• 2:30:10
  Iceyyy: I'm trying to like rack my brain.
• 2:30:11
  Iceyyy: I'm like, we went to Thailand and saw the tigers, and I feel like you know, they say that they're not, you know, like uh sedated, but uh I think I think they're lying on their brochure, which is not so good.
• 2:30:24
  Iceyyy: Uh something about the lion does not concern himself with with bear markets.
• 2:30:29
  Iceyyy: Um you know, there's a connection somewhere, but there's not.
• 2:30:33
  Iceyyy: Uh I actually have a Will story that I did want to tap into.
• 2:30:36
  Iceyyy: Um, so I'm at uh Solana Boston, ETH Boston, really great blockchain week in Boston.
• 2:30:43
  Iceyyy: And Alex texts me and he's like, yo, you gotta meet up with William.
• 2:30:47
  Iceyyy: Like he's there.
• 2:30:48
  Iceyyy: Uh you guys are in the same city, you guys are both amazing.
• 2:30:51
  Iceyyy: Like you definitely have to connect.
• 2:30:52
  Iceyyy: And I'm like, oh, incredible.
• 2:30:53
  Iceyyy: Uh 100%.
• 2:30:55
  Iceyyy: And um I end up meeting and separately, uh, I'm in the audience just listening to like you know, one of the panels or whatnot, and you know, they come to like the QA section, and uh there's this other guy like across the row, really handsome guy, really like well, back straight, perfectly manicured face, you know, tall, handsome, good, just like the Boston guy that you're just like that guy, man, like sounds like a douche.
• 2:31:24
  Iceyyy: That guy exists, like well, you know, like good for him, must be nice, you know.
• 2:31:29
  Iceyyy: Like, and then and then he's he asked, he asks this question and he's like so thoughtful, so articulate, so smart and brilliant.
• 2:31:37
  Iceyyy: And I'm like, What this guy's got it all?
• 2:31:40
  Iceyyy: Like, what's going on here?
• 2:31:41
  Iceyyy: Lo and behold, that is Sir William Watson.
• 2:31:45
  Iceyyy: Uh, and then there's another part of the story where one of my bet my best friend from college, uh, every time we meet up, he's like, bro, like one of my friends knows like you on Twitter, like he knows Icy.
• 2:31:59
  Iceyyy: And I'm like, there's no way, like, there's no way.
• 2:32:02
  Iceyyy: He's like, Yeah, my my friend Will like knows you.
• 2:32:04
  Iceyyy: And I'm like, I okay, sure, I'm sure there's like a mistake or you know, like whatever, right?
• 2:32:09
  Iceyyy: And then I meet William at ETH Boston, Solana Boston.
• 2:32:13
  Iceyyy: He's like, Yeah, dude, I'm also friends with Dan.
• 2:32:15
  Iceyyy: Like, and I'm like, and I connect the dots, and I'm like, oh, it all makes sense now.
• 2:32:20
  Iceyyy: I'm like, dude, that is small world, so cool.
• 2:32:23
  Iceyyy: I'm like, I love Alex, I love Evan, I love your show.
• 2:32:27
  Iceyyy: Like, nice to meet you.
• 2:32:28
  Iceyyy: You're still really tall and handsome.
• 2:32:30
  Iceyyy: Uh, I'm not nervous.
• 2:32:32
  Iceyyy: Fuck that guy, dude.
• 2:32:33
  Alex: What a what a dork.
• 2:32:35
  Iceyyy: And uh, yeah, so you know, I was like, guys, I gotta come on the show now.
• 2:32:39
  Iceyyy: Once he's gone, I I waited for him to go to Japan, and then I messaged Alex.
• 2:32:44
  Iceyyy: I'm like, I'm ready.
• 2:32:46
  Alex: Beautiful.
• 2:32:47
  Alex: Yeah, at least he's he's literally the biggest dork I've ever met.
• 2:32:52
  Alex: It's at least at least there's that going for it.
• 2:32:55
  Alex: Yeah, but he makes good.
• 2:32:58
  Alex: It's Will.
• 2:33:00
  Iceyyy: Yeah, we we can't we can't compliment him too much.
• 2:33:02
  Iceyyy: He's yeah, he's thoroughly missed though.
• 2:33:06
  Alex: Dude, Evan, we don't usually get our number one fan on the night show, but as we it's only fitting that as we round out, RPS, my love, sweetheart, you're here.
• 2:33:18
  Alex: It's so good to see you.
• 2:33:20
  Evan: That's why I made that nod about putting from the rough.
• 2:33:22
  Evan: This this this person, RPS IC, loves to say just interesting put downs about and one of them was you guys are putting from the rough.
• 2:33:32
  Evan: I'm not sure what that means, but I can tell it doesn't mean something good.
• 2:33:36
  Evan: I love that.
• 2:33:37
  Evan: I love it too.
• 2:33:39
  Alex: They're not that original anymore because it's it's always just no substance loser podcast, something something.
• 2:33:45
  Alex: It's like, come on, dude, juzge it up a little bit.
• 2:33:47
  Alex: Give me some give me some variety, get a thesaurus.
• 2:33:50
  Iceyyy: But you have heard of us, you know, the the classic uh you know, pirates of the Caribbean.
• 2:33:56
  Iceyyy: It's like, you know, but you have heard of us, yeah.
• 2:33:58
  Iceyyy: You eat pieces of shit for breakfast.
• 2:34:00
  Iceyyy: Yeah.
• 2:34:02
  Evan: Oh my gosh.
• 2:34:03
  Evan: Uh thank you again, Icy.
• 2:34:05
  Evan: Thank you, Alex, for letting me run on your parade.
• 2:34:07
  Evan: And uh let me do this before you before you talk us out of here.
• 2:34:11
  Evan: Let me just let people know that uh we're riding our cats and cows into the sunrise.
• 2:34:17
  Evan: Literally, sorry, animal sounds.
• 2:34:21
  Evan: So take it away, brother.
• 2:34:23
  Alex: Latest after dark of all time.
• 2:34:24
  Alex: But uh, thank you to everyone who hung out.
• 2:34:27
  Alex: I see, thanks for being here.
• 2:34:28
  Alex: Evan, it's I'm glad we got you at least for a minute at the end, even though I had to summon you by disturbing the force by doing yet another blockchain base camp screen share.
• 2:34:37
  Alex: Uh, thank you, of course, to all of our incredible partners and sponsors of the show.
• 2:34:42
  Alex: Arculus, we appreciate you guys.
• 2:34:44
  Alex: Unlock protocol.
• 2:34:46
  Alex: We got a cool chance to talk about um what you guys are working on, and I'm super excited to not only teach people about what you're doing, but also use the platform.
• 2:34:56
  Alex: We've got Gito in the house.
• 2:34:59
  Alex: We talked a little bit about like what are we interested in, what are we focused on, and one of the big things that people are interested in that we're trying to teach more and more and more about at a heightened level, not only to do all beginner everything, uh, but is just the world of DeFi and how deep and robust it is.
• 2:35:15
  Alex: And I'm excited to have Jito's help to tell that story.
• 2:35:19
  Alex: And then, of course, uh friend of the show, the White Whale, who's made a lot of the quality upgrades and enhancements that you guys have seen on the platform and in the studio recently possible.
• 2:35:30
  Alex: And then, of course, Polygon, uh, who was our like first official sponsor, excited to be working with them again.
• 2:35:38
  Alex: Uh, here's another uh shout out for the contest because it's still ongoing and the bar to success is very low.
• 2:35:46
  Alex: I literally can't, I don't know, I can't like Polygon is paying you to make content about Polygon.
• 2:35:50
  Alex: Okay, so if you've ever like thought you wanted to dabble, just like put something together.
• 2:35:54
  Alex: And if you want some help, let me know, and we will help you turn it into a cool video or connect with an animator or polish up the writing or come up with ideas, toss it out in office hours, we can talk about it in a circle.
• 2:36:09
  Alex: Uh, it's like you it's just come on.
• 2:36:14
  Alex: Polygon looking for an excuse.
• 2:36:17
  Iceyyy: Polygon is the maker of my most favorite uh jacket that I have in crypto.
• 2:36:23
  Iceyyy: Uh, it's just like a very simple windbreaker, like kind of rain jacket, uh, very sleek.
• 2:36:29
  Iceyyy: It says Polygon right here, and on the back it says polygon, but it's in the Pokemon font and logo.
• 2:36:34
  Iceyyy: It's so cool, dude.
• 2:36:36
  Alex: Yeah, nil has that.
• 2:36:37
  Alex: I haven't gotten one of those yet, but I would love one.
• 2:36:39
  Alex: There's like a couple pieces of specific crypto merch that are like on my list to get.
• 2:36:44
  Alex: That one is one, and the other one is the is a an original Farcade t-shirt.
• 2:36:50
  Iceyyy: I was don't get me started.
• 2:36:51
  Alex: Chuck.
• 2:36:52
  Iceyyy: Yeah, don't get me started, dude.
• 2:36:53
  Iceyyy: I was like, bro, like let me get a shirt.
• 2:36:56
  Iceyyy: And they were like, we like only have like a few, and I was like, guys, what?
• 2:37:01
  Iceyyy: That's me.
• 2:37:03
  Iceyyy: I'm like, guys, come on.
• 2:37:06
  Iceyyy: Unacceptable.
• 2:37:06
  Iceyyy: Yeah, I'm like, I literally make videos every day.
• 2:37:09
  Iceyyy: I will wear your shirt.
• 2:37:10
  Iceyyy: Damn it, Chuck.
• 2:37:13
  Evan: Uh if you if you want to get in touch with the offers from our sponsors, the you know, like uh the discount code for the Arculus wallets, if you want to get the link to get some free Polygon merch for your UGC, I have finally updated our uh recommended tools and deals tab with all the partners that power our show.
• 2:37:31
  Evan: And I'm gonna continue working on that page just in time for Alex to build us a new website.
• 2:37:35
  Evan: So by the time he's finished, I'll have all the tools and deals that we have been supported by or support, and you should check it out at rumshq.com.
• 2:37:45
  Evan: Alex, back to you.
• 2:37:48
  Alex: It wouldn't be see, this isn't it's your turn now to rug me in the final in the final final thought of all final thoughts to give yet another final thought after your final thought.
• 2:37:58
  Iceyyy: Yo dog, I heard you like final thoughts.
• 2:38:00
  Iceyyy: We put a final thought in your final thought, so you could have a final thought with your final thought.
• 2:38:05
  Evan: It was a it was a coda to your thoughts.
• 2:38:07
  Alex: So so have we never made a pimp my ride joke for final thoughts until right now, dude.
• 2:38:14
  Alex: I'm so ashamed that I did not think of that before Icy did it, but I mean that was a TV show.
• 2:38:20
  Alex: Common Iceman.
• 2:38:22
  Alex: Wherein have you ever seen the okay?
• 2:38:25
  Alex: I'm sorry, I'm gonna get have you ever seen the like aftermath of of a pimp my ride where they have like the car a year later?
• 2:38:32
  Alex: Yeah, it is awful.
• 2:38:34
  Evan: Yeah, it seems like a lot of those didn't work out so well.
• 2:38:37
  Alex: Yeah, go figure removing key mechanical components of the vehicle to fit in a mini basketball hoop and a very tiny hot tub is not good for the structural integrity of the car.
• 2:38:47
  Iceyyy: This is why the internet is the best and undefeated, because I I literally like maybe like three months ago watched a YouTube video on like breaking down all all of all of the things, and yes, dude, I mean, color me shocked, but I dude when 16-year-old me, I was blown away.
• 2:39:03
  Iceyyy: I'm like, yeah, dude, this is great, this is the coolest car.
• 2:39:06
  Iceyyy: I've never never like uh occurred to me that yeah, this is a terrible idea.
• 2:39:11
  Alex: Yeah, we actually went ahead and pulled out the rear suspension system to fit a few more speakers.
• 2:39:16
  Alex: It's really loud.
• 2:39:18
  Alex: It feels like crap when you go over a rock.
• 2:39:21
  Iceyyy: So good.
• 2:39:22
  Alex: Where are they now?
• 2:39:22
  Alex: I'll have to check it out.
• 2:39:23
  Alex: Dude, it's hilarious.
• 2:39:24
  Alex: I've actually I've actually seen that one too.
• 2:39:26
  Alex: Um, okay, without further ado, I see.
• 2:39:29
  Alex: Thank you again for being here.
• 2:39:30
  Alex: Thank you to everyone for hanging out.
• 2:39:31
  Alex: We will be back uh same time as this morning, same place as right now, different time than right now, tomorrow morning for the final episode this week of the Rise Up Morning show.
• 2:39:42
  Alex: Um, Evan, do we have you for that one?
• 2:39:44
  Alex: Are you you're no?
• 2:39:46
  Evan: I'm gonna be at Bubble Studios at the venue.
• 2:39:48
  Evan: What we will have is uh a reveal of who gets the extra incentive.
• 2:39:53
  Evan: We threw a hundred bucks on top of the Polygon UGC, and we will pick a winner on the show tomorrow.
• 2:39:58
  Evan: By which I mean Alex will pick a winner.
• 2:40:00
  Evan: Alex, I'll I'll get at you about it.
• 2:40:02
  Evan: Okay.
• 2:40:02
  Evan: There's still time before we go on the air.
• 2:40:04
  Evan: If you want to make a piece of UGC to win the extra hundred bucks from us, do it.
• 2:40:07
  Evan: Yep.
• 2:40:08
  Evan: Uh, but no, I will not be there.
• 2:40:09
  Evan: I I might I might be able to I'll have my laptop and my phone, but I expect I'll be on the ground working, prepping my speaker notes and all that stuff.
• 2:40:15
  Alex: No worries.
• 2:40:16
  Alex: It'll be just me, and um, we'll have fresh things to complain about, or I'll complain about the same stuff.
• 2:40:21
  Alex: Uh, but thank you all for hanging out with us tonight.
• 2:40:24
  Alex: It was a lot of fun.
• 2:40:26
  Alex: I appreciate all of you.
• 2:40:27
  Alex: Um, Icy, it's great to have you.
• 2:40:29
  Alex: We'll see you guys next time, whenever that is, whenever you listen.
• 2:40:34
  Alex: And uh, I didn't give any shoutouts to podcast land tonight.
• 2:40:36
  Alex: I'm I'm so sorry.
• 2:40:38
  Alex: I love you guys, and I hope that wherever you are and wherever you're listening, your candles are green.
• 2:40:41
  Alex: We will see you guys next time.
• 2:40:43
  Alex: Until then.
• 2:40:44
  Alex: Rise up.
• 2:40:46
  Alex: Bye guys.